General Debate ANZAC Day 2011

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big bruv

Lest we forget.
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April 25, 2011 8:55am
bhudson

Lest we forget
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April 25, 2011 8:56am
Rodders

Hone “I just want us to go out with maybe a dozen really simple issues that most New Zealanders can understand.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4922842/Harawira-sets-sights-high-for-partys-debut-election
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April 25, 2011 8:57am
bhudson

BB,

Uncanny. And yet not.
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April 25, 2011 8:57am
tvb

Another post requiring mawkish posts from people. I respect ANZAC day as our sacred day. But I do feel your blog is becoming like an old ladies tea party with “my heart goes out” on this and that.
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April 25, 2011 9:05am
Seamonkey Madness

Lest we forget indeed.
We may get a slightly lower than usual turnout than usual due to the weather, but let us not forget the atrocious conditions our troops and others had to endure at the front.
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April 25, 2011 9:20am
Nookin

tvb
On reflection, do you think that your comment was really necesary? If you were suggesting that one post led to another, I suggest you look at the timing. I have no problem with people saying what most NZers are thinking at the moment
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April 25, 2011 9:21am
davidp

I hate Easter. Thanks to the last government, everything is closed for three days. Instead of being a modern bustling cosmopolitan place, the city looks about as interesting as it did back in the 1970s… a miserable socialist “paradise” full of tourists wandering around wondering why nothing is open. Then on Saturday the supermarkets are packed with queues about a mile long and check out staff who are both overworked and pissed off that they’ve lost three days wages that they could have used to help pay for their studies. There isn’t any point going away for the long weekend because all those places are closed and dreary as well. And you could browse around Real Groovy records who’d always rebel against the socialists and open their doors, but they’re closed down now and surely even the dullest Labour Department official must be questioning the logic of fining a business and stopping it trading for several days each year when it was on the brink of survival.

And it is raining.

National have had 2.5 years to fix this system. Maybe they’ll tackle it once they’ve plucked up the courage to change some of Helen Clark’s laws.
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April 25, 2011 9:23am
Pete George

ANZAC Day is not a sacred day, it’s a remembrance day, a day to remember the occasional necessity and usual stupidity of war, and to remember the many New Zealanders who have served and died in war.

I remember in particular my grandfathers, one of whom earned a piece of metal on hist chest while serving in France, the other earned a piece of metal in his chest.

I remember my father who was lucky to miss most of the danger, he followed the tail end of action in Italy.
I remember one of my uncles who was about a fortnight ahead of my father and was buried in Northern Italy.
I remember another uncle who, serving in the navy from age 15, survived in body but had his soul wrecked.

Sometimes wars are necessary and unavoidable. Too often they are just a bloody waste.
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April 25, 2011 9:24am
Inventory2

Quite so Nookin; it is a day of reflection for some of us; for others, it is a morning where they cannot go shopping or go to the pub. Let’s also not forget that it is one year since the crash of the RNZAF Iriquois at Pukerua Bay, where three serving Air Force staff from 3 Sqn at Ohakea were killed; we remember them as well.
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April 25, 2011 9:25am
Chicken Little

Any NZ politicians, past or present, belong to Globe International? Dr Smith – how about you?

Not that I would ever call it a conspiracy.
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April 25, 2011 9:31am
David Garrett

Pete G: Great post. Whale says we should “celebrate” the day in Aussie fashion rather than it be a sombre day of commeration. To my mind you dont “celebrate” invovlement in ANY war, even the great just war, WW II

Our respectful remembrance is just how it should be.
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April 25, 2011 9:32am
big bruv

davidp

Harden up.
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April 25, 2011 9:37am
flipper

Good one Pete George…..

I remember my father who served at and survived Gallipoli. I remember him most when he sat in our Napier home and used his razor sharp pen knife (sterilised in a gas flame) to remove pieces of shrapnel from his upper arm. He hated the war (for which volunteered age 17.5yrs). But he despised and had contempt for the British twits who planned and ran Gallipoli.
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April 25, 2011 9:40am
slightlyrighty

I may be accused of mawkishness, but this is a day where we should remember the scarifice made by some so we can continue to enjoy the life we have.

Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen fought for us. Simple. They may have had other motives, but the effect is still the same.

While we moralise on the nature of warfare, and for the record, I feel that waging war is wrong, it should in no way lessen the sacrifice made. Nations start war for all the wrong reasons, but the can fight them for all the right ones. Witness the conflict in Lybia for example.

My parents suffered in WW2 in occupied Holland. Their suffering may not have been much compared to others, but it was the work of soldiers that liberated them, and allowed them to go on with their lives, emigrate, meet, marry and raise children.

For that, I thank them.
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April 25, 2011 9:42am
slightlyrighty

Davidp.

Are you so disorganised that you can’t even go one day without the shops being open?
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April 25, 2011 9:44am
JC

Flipper, that post suggests you are about 90 years old.

JC
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April 25, 2011 9:50am
flipper

JC
CRAP!
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April 25, 2011 9:52am
MT_Tinman

Davidp, I agree somewhat.

I’ve been “working” since 04:30 this morning and haven’t done a job thanks, mainly, to bloody superstition. (no work = no food)

Are the halfwits so piss poorly organised they can’t arrange a day off by themselves?
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April 25, 2011 9:52am
tvb

Nookin you could say it is always bad timing that criticises a post that invites mawkish comments is bad timing. I am making the general point that Farrar’s blog frequently invites mawkishness and if that is challenged the old dear throws a hissy fit and imposes demerit points.
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April 25, 2011 9:54am
MyNameIsJack

Lest we forget?

It seems that history shows we are good at forgetting, at repeating past mistakes. We may not have forgotten, but we have not learned.

Today is a good day to remember Frank Hughes, John Sweeney, John Brathwaite, John King and Victor Spencer.

Today is a good day to remember the 273 imprisoned for attempting free exercise of the consciences, for being silly enough to think that freedom was something to be used.

Today is a good day to remember the further 2500 (approx) who lost their civil rights, including the right to vote for 10 years and being barred from jobs with government or local bodies.

Lest we forget.
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April 25, 2011 10:00am
Linda Reid

tvb – you don’t like it, don’t visit.
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April 25, 2011 10:03am
davidp

slightlyrighty>Are you so disorganised that you can’t even go one day without the shops being open?

Are you so hopeless that you can’t stop shopping for even one day without the government telling you not to?

And what is this “one day”? They were closed Friday and Sunday, and I suspect they’ll be closed again today. No cafes. No supermarkets. No book shops. Just police out fining drivers and Labour Department officials out fining shop keepers. And maybe garden centers… if my parents are to be believed then there is one open near them and they think it might be illegal to buy books, groceries, and coffee, but legal to buy pot plants. Figure that one out.
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April 25, 2011 10:04am
Rodders

tvb’s comments remind me of this Monty Python gem:

“I think that all good, right thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that all good, right thinking people in this country are fed up with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am”
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April 25, 2011 10:06am
starboard

Im with davidp on this…its ridiculous closing the country down..sure we can remember and not forget..maybe take 5 minutes alone to reflect.. but why shut up shop?? Its 2011 people.
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April 25, 2011 10:16am
KevinH

Anzac Day is a day when we do reflect on our past and pay homage and respect to the men and women who gave their lives so that we may enjoy the freedoms that liberty offers us.
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April 25, 2011 10:21am
publicwatchdog

# Pete George (9,704) Says:
April 25th, 2011 at 9:24 am

ANZAC Day is not a sacred day, it’s a remembrance day, a day to remember the occasional necessity and usual stupidity of war, and to remember the many New Zealanders who have served and died in war.
…………….
Sometimes wars are necessary and unavoidable. Too often they are just a bloody waste.”
______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I agree Pete George.

But there is BIG money to be made out of war.

For some – but not usually those actually doing the fighting?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 25, 2011 10:23am
davidp

starboard>sure we can remember and not forget

I’m not too fussed about quiet reflection on Anzac Day. I’ll be going up to Karori soldier’s cemetery later on today to visit my grandfather and uncle. The thing I object to is the compulsory Easter shutdown. Why should I be forced to commemorate the death of a 2000 year old Jewish nationalist, just because someone decided he had supernatural powers? It’d be even more insulting if I believed that someone else actually had supernatural powers and I preferred to worship him or her rather than the Jewish revolutionary.
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April 25, 2011 10:32am
wat dabney

Obama has declared Bradley Manning guilty, so let’s not bother with a trial.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/04/23/manning
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April 25, 2011 10:33am
Inventory2

@ davidp & starboard – Lighten up guys; after midday, it’s just a normal day, except that some cafes will be charging a 15% surcharge, and you won’t be able to get a table at the smart ones that have figured out that they get better revenue when they DON’T charge a surcharge!

As for Anzac Day; my grandfather was wounded at Gallipoli; he was invalided home where he recovered and then returned to the Great War. My father was part of 2NZEF in North Africa and Greece. Before the war, I am told that he was gregarious, and quite a Jack-the-lad. I never saw that part of his personality; to me he was an intensely private man, prone to outbursts of anger, and a man who never spoke of his war-time experiences. To complete a third generation, my brother is a Vietnam veteran.

As far as I am concerned, the war robbed me of my father. It stole a part of his personality, and as was the custom of the day, he stuffed his experiences down somewhere in the dark recesses of his soul where they smouldered away until his death. I am sure that many, many sons and daughters of veterans feel the same way. The reality of the war is that its effects were not just felt on the battlefield. I hope and pray that my children and theirs are never called to serves as the forebears did.
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April 25, 2011 10:33am
Pete George

It stole a part of his personality

Unfortunately I think this is an ingrained part of the Kiwi psyche. Mental illness, alcoholism, violence, difficult relationships, all significant flow on effects of the horrors of war.

It must be worse for those living in countries after civil wars, where internal animosity lingers for generations.
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April 25, 2011 10:40am
Manolo

The WCC parking vultures never rest.

Wellington parking wardens who ticketed cars yesterday were officially told to back off, with the city council admitting that issuing tickets on Easter Sunday was a bad look.

The Easter blitz angered some motorists, who thought they would be safe in the city on one of the quietest days of the year – although it is technically not a public holiday. A visitor to the central city contacted The Dominion Post, angry at being “pinged” yesterday morning for parking longer than the two-hour limit.
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April 25, 2011 10:41am
JC

In the last 20 years the crowds have come back to Anzac Day. Many say its because we are now far enough away from the antiwar days of the boomers to pay proper respect for those who died.

I don’t agree with that sentiment.. I think we certainly are more respectful of the soldiers but increasingly we are mourning the loss of our nationhood. Waitangi Day could never be a day of nationhood.. it simply doesn’t have that respect; but certainly we can see Gallipoli and WW1 as the start of a nation.

Maybe the first New Zealanders were those white settlers who spoke Maori and at the Treaty grounds warned Maori they would be slaves if they signed the paper. Whatever, after WW1 we would never again allow England such total command of our troops.

JC
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April 25, 2011 10:47am
slightlyrighty

Davidp.

I work in a shop. What I like is a day that we can spend together as a family, where I can meet with friends, where a community can get together.

30 years ago we all knew our neighbours, and we played with the neighbourhood kids. We all were able to buy what we needed, when we needed. We didn’t need to have shops open all 7 days of the week to get things done, and families were a lot closer than they are today.

Now I am not an overly religious person. I certainly only go to church for weddings and funerals. I feel that organised religion is responsible for a lot of wrongdoing. But when they get things right, I’ll give them kudos. The idea that we have one uniform day that allows us to connect as a community, around kids sport, family BBQ’s and other events is worthwhile. Why do we choose to deny that to one of the largest employee sectors is beyond me.

While you may well accuse me of being nostagic for the past, this situation is the present in many parts of the world, where community is valued over the seven day money scramble that NZ has become. Now the 3.5 days we don’t worship at the temple of the almighty dollar are under threat.

Do business owners reallty think that because a person can’t buy a product on one particular day, they won’t buy it the next day?

The shop I work in was shut yesterday. So what? If someone wanted to buy something, and couldn’t, they’ll buy it today, or tomorrow, or next week. It doesn’t matter.

In Germany, shops are shut on Sunday. I bet they can still buy a pair of lederhosen if they get it the day before.

A shop can do 7 days of turnover in 6 days. Don’t give your bleeding heart “I should be able to shop if I want to” arguement. These shops are staffed by people who can’t spend a day with their families, even if they want to.
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April 25, 2011 10:59am
publicwatchdog

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/act-party/news/article.cfm?o_id=359&objectid=10721377
Brash chases leadership of party he hasn’t joined
By Derek Cheng
5:30 AM Monday Apr 25, 2011

Rodney Hide is facing a leadership challenge from Don Brash.

Former National Party leader Don Brash will seek the backing of the Act board on Saturday for an attempt to oust the leader of the party – which he has yet to even join. ”

Interesting.

Arguably pretty cheeky move by Don Brash – not to mention just a little bit arrogant?

You want to become the leader of a party you have yet to join, and if you aren’t made the leader of a party you have yet to join – you will form another party?

How would members of the National Party view the roles being reversed on THAT one?

ie: Rodney Hide is asked to join the National Party.

Rodney then (without even joining National) lays down the law:

“If you don’t make me the Leader of the National Party (which I have yet to join) l will form another party!”

Be VERY interested to know Cameron Slater’s views on THAT one – given his comments on National Party ‘newby’ Maggie Barry’s attempt for selection as the National Party candidate in Botany?

Or perhaps it just goes to show how truly interchangeable are both the policies and personnel of both the ACT and National parties – if Don Brash can put himself forward as the leader of ACT without even ending his membership of the National Party?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 25, 2011 11:07am
Don the Kiwi

I had many relatives serve in both world wars, but the real classic was my Uncle George – my dad’s oldest brother.
Uncle Hori (as we called him) went away after Gallipoli and served in the trenches in France. He was gassed in one of the gas attacks, and was evacuated to England and repatriated home. He was still pretty sick, and was sent to the convalescent home at Ramarama just south of Auckland.
Now Uncle Hori was a real character, and always had a twinkle in his eyes, and was a great ladies man. He was at the convalescent home only 3 days, and he seduced the matron of the establishment – not bad for still not well and only one lung. He moved to Rotorua, and played rugby for the Kahakura Rugby Club there till 1926. In his retirement days, he lived at Bucklands Beach in Auckland, then after Aunty May died he moved into the John A Redwood reitrement home in Rotorua, and died in Rotorua at age 95.
RIP George Beckett. You are well remembered.
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April 25, 2011 11:17am
thedavincimode

yes borker/Jerk

We all know daddy didn’t get a medal and then got fired and that you were so incensed over the Vietnam war that you scuttled over here in a defiant protest against it (coincidentally avoiding the draft) because that represented a more resounding condemnation than staying at home and going to the big house.

And we’ve been stuck with you ever since.

Arse.
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April 25, 2011 11:19am
davidp

slightlyrighty>I work in a shop. What I like is a day that we can spend together as a family, where I can meet with friends, where a community can get together.

The community didn’t get together in Wellington, unless you count wandering around cold wet streets looking for something to do as a bonding experience.

I’m sceptical that the only chance you get to meet your family and friends each year are the Friday, Sunday, and Monday of Easter. You need to organise your evenings and days off better. It might help if we scrapped Easter and gave you a couple of days extra leave. Then you’d be able to spend the time how and when you like, rather than in government-mandated no-activity conformity. If you wanted to you could even take those two days leave off at this time of the year and spend it with your family, only you wouldn’t be forcing other people to do the same.
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April 25, 2011 11:20am
thedavincimode

zzzzzz Costume: Fran Walsh, Hair: Flymo …. zzzzz … Resene … Mad Hobbit … Thelunaticasylum … zzzzzzzzzz
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April 25, 2011 11:24am
Lazybum

A friend went to Pak n Save on Saturday and they had up to 30c/litre off petrol if you spend $200+. The vouichers have a 6 digit code. He only brought a pizza and beer, so walked out with no fuel voucher.

As an exercise he went to the fuel pump to get some gas and put in random 6 digit numbers. The first failed, but the second try was accepted with a 20c/litre discount so he promptly filled out his tank.

I wonder how often this happens? Maybe something else that Foodstuffs need to look out for as well as doors opening on holidays (Hamilton on Good Friday).
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April 25, 2011 12:14pm
Viking2

davidp (1,788) Says:
April 25th, 2011 at 9:23 am

National have had 2.5 years to fix this system. Maybe they’ll tackle it once they’ve plucked up the courage to change some of Helen Clark’s laws.

I suspect Hell will Freeze over First.

By the way I think this is the latest an Easter has fallen since about 1963. No wonder its bloody wet. Didn’t anyone see that coming. Stuffed our outside Jazz Fest. Pity really.

Easter is a croc. We kill more people on the roads because of Easter.

We deny citizens the right to carry out their normal day to day activities as they would choose to do.
We DON’T deny Christians their right to go about their business as they like. ( and neither we should).

If its necessary for the Govt. and the Christians to collude and use the Law to force us into forgoing our normal activities, that, by implication, would be against the entire precepts of The Anzac Legend, for the reason for Anzac was to oppose such tyranny, whereby the population was ruled by despots and freedom of the individual was removed and trampled on and the right to life suspended by those despots.

Its right we remember these Anzacs and others that fronted for our Freedoms and the Freedoms of people they could never know.

Which is why we need get our own house in order in this country. Religious Observance does not need to be legislated and mandated for Christians, just like it isn’t for Hindu’s, Muslims, and any other religion.

Clearly there is a case for removing this COMPULSON from the legislation.

P.S. Anzacs were also all about people being free to have opinions and to be able to speak about those opinions.
Do we think NZ is getting better in that regard?

If the reports about Smiths behavoir towards Ken Ring are correct then its just isn’t so.

We need to think seriously about this.
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April 25, 2011 12:21pm
Viking2

According to a Health Manager you can create new car parking spaces to ease the demand by charging more for the ones you have.

AHHHH, no. Demand is demand and the way to fill demand is to have more. Well that’s how most markets work I think. Isn’t it. Increasing the price raises the profit but may not decrease the demand simply because people have a driven need to use the car park. His business is attracting more customers. Does that mean he will charge more for the hospital services and thus reduce the need of his customers to go to hospital?

DUR
Waitemata DHB chief executive Dave Davies said the new charges were necessary because of growing demand.

“A growing population and the introduction of new services such as 24-7 emergency services for children – and adults from mid-June – mean Waitakere Hospital is now the busiest it has ever been,” Mr Davies said.

To ensure more parking was available, the board found it necessary to charge $3 for the first hour and $2 for every subsequent hour.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10721416
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April 25, 2011 12:31pm
nasska

It has been a while since anything amazed me but a few comments made earlier on this thread came very close.

Have we, the human race, struggled up the evolutionary ladder fending off everything from sabre tooth tigers to Labour governments to be stalled at the lack of shopping opportunities for an entire 36 hours? Has the hunter/gatherer instinct innate to our species been so subverted that that we lack the means or the wit to stock up sufficient supplies to last us one & a half days. 2160 minutes with little chance to swipe the eftpos card…quelle horreur!

Were the people we honoured this morning still been with us they would have either wept or pissed their pants laughing at the hopeless creatures they sacrificed so much for.
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April 25, 2011 1:44pm
publicwatchdog

Although my view is that the only poll that counts is an election result – I note that there doesn’t appear to be any mention to date of this latest ‘Horizon opinion poll’?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4922227/Nats-back-to-square-one-in-the-latest-poll
Nats back to square one in the latest poll
Last updated 10:46 24/04/2011

Prime Minister John Key’s National-led coalition would govern again if an election were held tomorrow, according to a new political poll.

But the Horizon poll shows the spike in support the government received from its handling of Christchurch’s earthquakes has levelled out. National now has the same level of support as it did at the last election.

The poll shows the current National-Act-Maori Party-United Future coalition would govern again if an election were held tomorrow, attracting 45 percent of the vote, against a Labour-Green-NZ First coalition that would attract 41.3 percent, or 42.2 percent with Jim Anderton’s vote.

Some 8.4 percent of the population remains undecided or has yet to express a preference.

The polling indicates National still faces a problem in the Epsom electorate, where it has stood down to allow Act leader Rodney Hide to win, taking his party to Wellington. Key’s coalition will again need that to happen, but his own party has expressed displeasure at that.

Right-wing commentator Matthew Hooton said last week that Epsom was a difficult issue, because if Act won, National could only govern with coalition partners, but there was still a chance it might govern alone if Hide lost.

Hooton wrote in the National Business Review that the only scenario where Hide might scrape in was if National voters believed the party couldn’t remain in government without him, and would stay in government with him.

The Horizon poll has Act on just 3.7 percent support, National on 37.7 percent, United Future on 1.1 percent and the Maori Party on 2.4 percent. Labour is on 23.9 percent, the Green Party on 9.9 percent and New Zealand First on 7.4 percent.

And there was bad news for the government over the new copyright law, passed under urgency recently, with a backlash against the removal of the presumption of innocence. The new law assumes guilt regarding file transfers and can lead to fines and internet disconnections, but 89 percent of people surveyed opposed the new law.”

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Interesting NZ First poll result? “7.4%”

“Right-wing commentator Matthew Hooton said last week that Epsom was a difficult issue, because if Act won, National could only govern with coalition partners, but there was still a chance it might govern alone if Hide lost.”

So do some of the National ‘spin doctors’ think that it would be better for National if ACT just died – and hope then that National would pick up those former ACT votes in order to get the numbers to govern alone?

hmmm………. that would be QUITE a punt – given the Botany by-election result (in my considered opinion).

Yep!

Again this proves that a week is indeed a LONG time in politics ………………..

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 25, 2011 1:51pm
Longknives

A smaller crowd than usual up at the Auckland Domain today…the weather perhaps? At least the dropkick protesters seemed to stay away, they are usually up there sneering at the old soldiers (which disgusts me). I guess their Political convictions aren’t that important when its raining eh? May as well stay at home with a big bag of dope….

Anyway- Lest We Forget..
I think Lemmy sums it up it well-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqFoqtpUFY8
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April 25, 2011 2:02pm
reid

At least the dropkick protesters seemed to stay away, they are usually up there sneering at the old soldiers (which disgusts me).

Yes, me as well.

These morons are so mental they can’t even distinguish between honoring sacrifice vs the dynamics of why wars start.

The latter is what they protest against, but the former is all they ever protest about.

And they wonder why people don’t listen to them. Now bearing in mind if you were a protester you’d be giving the issue a whole lot more head space than your average non-protester would be, and they still get it so wrong, you’d be forced to conclude by overwhelming logic that these guys and girls are totally thick and/or blinded by the emotion of the whole affair.

Both forces normally co-habit the lefty mindset and it’s an interesting analysis determining which % of which is presently inhabiting any given protesters mind, if you’ve got nothing better to do.
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April 25, 2011 2:30pm
Viking2

In honour of all who have sacrificed emotionally and physically in order for us to have our freedom.

THE FINAL INSPECTION

The soldier stood and faced God,
Which must always come to pass.
He hoped his shoes were shining,
Just as brightly as his brass.

‘Step forward now, you soldier,
How shall I deal with you ?
Have you always turned the other cheek ?
To My Church have you been true?’

The soldier squared his shoulders and said,
‘No, Lord, I guess I ain’t
Because those of us who carry guns,
Can’t always be a saint.

I’ve had to work most Sundays,
And at times my talk was tough.
And sometimes I’ve been violent,
Because the world is awfully rough.

But, I never took a penny,
That wasn’t mine to keep…
Though I worked a lot of overtime,
When the bills got just too steep.

And I never passed a cry for help,
Though at times I shook with fear.
And sometimes, God, forgive me,
I’ve wept unmanly tears.

I know I don’t deserve a place,
Among the people here.
They never wanted me around,
Except to calm their fears.

If you’ve a place for me here, Lord,
It needn’t be so grand.
I never expected or had too much,
But if you don’t, I’ll understand.

There was a silence all around the throne,
Where the saints had often trod.
As the soldier waited quietly,
For the judgment of his God.

‘Step forward now, you soldier,
You’ve borne your burdens well.
Walk peacefully on Heaven’s streets,
You’ve done your time in Hell.’

Author Unknown~
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April 25, 2011 2:51pm
publicwatchdog

errrr…… aren’t the rights to ‘peaceful protest’ and ‘freedom of expression’ part of the democratic rights that those being commemorated at ANZAC day supposedly fought to protect?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 25, 2011 3:06pm
thedavincimode

That’s right. They fought for the right to be ridiculed, despised and gratuitously insulted.

Casting: Peter Jackson
Director: Geoff Robinson
Grip: None

……

zzz

Script: Room 4, Remedial Writing, Flat Earth Primary zzzzzzzz

… adapted from ‘The Horror Show’, a novel by Stephen King

zzzz
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April 25, 2011 3:18pm
Viking2

Penny, yes they are just as the rights to be respected were part of that.
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April 25, 2011 3:25pm
Viking2

Penny did you check out the City with no debt yet. I posted the links for you to see.
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April 25, 2011 3:26pm
thedavincimode

V2, why do you even bother?
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April 25, 2011 4:29pm
East Wellington Superhero

Just got home from ANZAC Day duties in Auckland. My soldiers got up early to remember those that went before them.

As I looked at Len Brown, Rodney Hyde, Mike Lee, Judith Collins, Keith Locke and many other VIPs, I realised that they are nobodies. Though my soldiers are young and in some ways they are nobodies, their works in East Timor, The Solomans, Afghanistan, and in the Middle East, will be far more significant.

Thank you to all those who came out to remember those that went before us, and to those that applauded my soldiers.

Onward.
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April 25, 2011 4:42pm
wat dabney

I used to go to these ceremonies, including the dawn ones, but basically they have all been hijacked by the church.

I bow to no one in my respect for those killed defending our freedoms. But sadly the church has seized on this appreciation and manipulates it for its own purposes. Makes me want to vomit.
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April 25, 2011 4:48pm
nasska

Wat dabney @ 4.48pm

The church in NZ has made itself so irrelevant that it would associate with anything or anyone for a bit of publicity. Better that they stick to passing round the collection plate & prepare the souls of their few adherents for the next world. That would give them something to do & they may leave the rest of us to muddle on in our own secular way.
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April 25, 2011 5:10pm
reid

errrr…… aren’t the rights to ‘peaceful protest’ and ‘freedom of expression’ part of the democratic rights that those being commemorated at ANZAC day supposedly fought to protect?

Absolutely they are, Penny.

I guess the other side of the coin however is what is respectful and what is disrespectful, on a day set aside to honour not condemn those people who sacrificed their lives?

I know the protesters think they are protesting against the military-industrial complex, but they can do that on any day.

However, they chose specifically, to protest on the very day, the one day per year, set aside to remember the very human sacrifice, which is not about the military-industrial complex in any way, it’s about the humanity of those times.

And these protesters disturb, not reinforce that atmosphere Penny.

Love your new look, BTW. Most outstanding.
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April 25, 2011 5:11pm
Inventory2

Did you regard Valerie Morse’s burning of the NZ flag at an ANZAC service in Wellington a couple of years ago as ‘peaceful protest’ and ‘freedom of expression’ Penny?
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April 25, 2011 5:40pm
publicwatchdog

Yes I did ‘Inventory 2’ – as, I understand did the NZ Supreme Court?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 25, 2011 7:07pm
bc

nasska@1.44pm
“It has been a while since anything amazed me but a few comments made earlier on this thread came very close.
Have we, the human race, struggled up the evolutionary ladder fending off everything from sabre tooth tigers to Labour governments to be stalled at the lack of shopping opportunities for an entire 36 hours? Has the hunter/gatherer instinct innate to our species been so subverted that that we lack the means or the wit to stock up sufficient supplies to last us one & a half days. 2160 minutes with little chance to swipe the eftpos card…quelle horreur!”

I can only say hear, hear. Davidp, get over yourself – the world doesn’t revolve around you!
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April 25, 2011 8:14pm
Inventory2

Well Penny, at least we’ve uncovered the depths to which you are prepared to plumb to support free speech. Morse’s action was grossly offensive and inflammatory, but I guess you will overlook that as long as her rights were protected.
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April 25, 2011 8:19pm
wat dabney

bc,

We can invoke the sabre-tooth tiger argument against any limitations on human freedom, so it’s not a very good one.

Why should two people be prevented from interacting and trading with each other simply because someone else designates that day as special to them?

Hmm…
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April 25, 2011 8:19pm
slightlyrighty

Davidp.

I have just returned from work, and read your post at 11:20.

Most people in retail work every Saturday and Sunday. Guess what numbnuts. NOT EVERYONE WORKS IN RETAIL!!!!

if I want a round of golf with my friends, I have to take annual leave. I would love to play a team sport again. I can’t. I have to work.

My friends, who I see less and less of, more often than not work monday to friday. So do my extended family. My school age son goes to school monday to friday. If you can figure out how a Dad who works on weekends, every weekend, gets to spent a regular day with HIS OWN SON who goes to school monday to friday, please tell me how.

Unless you have a fucking time machine, I’d like to see you try.

Why is it that you think we need to have shops open every day.
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April 25, 2011 8:30pm
bc

The shops are closed right now wat dabney. I suppose that impacts on your “human freedom” to interact and trading with other also.

And what about the “human freedom” for as many people possible to have a day off togther so that they can have the opportunity to interact with other socially. It’s a great way of being able to get all your friends/family together.
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April 25, 2011 8:32pm
bc

That’s it in a nutshell, slightlyrightly.
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April 25, 2011 8:35pm
slightlyrighty

Davidp

You had the temerity to suggest that I should organise my days of better so that you could shop? How dare you. I can no more arrange the schedules of all my friends and families than you could.

However, If you organised your time better, maybe you wouldn’t need 7 day a week shopping.

Do you shop every day? If you do then your time mangement must be atrocious.
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April 25, 2011 8:43pm
wat dabney

‘The shops are closed right now wat dabney. I suppose that impacts on your “human freedom” to interact and trading with other also.‘

Clearly it does.

‘And what about the “human freedom” for as many people possible to have a day off togther so that they can have the opportunity to interact with other socially. It’s a great way of being able to get all your friends/family together.’

What about the human freedom to not have a day off? To spend the day as they see fit, rather than as you tell them to?
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April 25, 2011 8:50pm
slightlyrighty

“What about the human freedom to not have a day off?”

wat dabney. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that arguement is? Yesterday you could have done anything you might have wanted to, except go and shop.

Same here. I had a peaceful day. My kids hunted for easter eggs, I spent time with some extended family. It was great.

Now you want the ‘Human freedom” to interact and trade with others, but that directly impacts the freedom of others to not do so.

Which begs the question, why can’t we all just have a day off.

What is the issue. What is it that you so desperately need that you cannot wait until the following day?

All I can say is that a failure to plan on your part should not constitute an emergency on my part. Get a grip, have a day or two away from the rat race with your family, and you might get an idea of what I’m talking about.
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April 25, 2011 9:11pm
wat dabney

“wat dabney. Do you have any idea how ridiculous that arguement is? Yesterday you could have done anything you might have wanted to, except go and shop.”

Maybe I wanted to go and shop. Maybe someone wanted to open their shop to trade with me.

What’s it got to do with you?

“Now you want the ‘Human freedom” to interact and trade with others, but that directly impacts the freedom of others to not do so.”

No, it doesn’t. They can open their shop or not. Do you see how this works now?
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April 25, 2011 9:14pm
Pete George

Yet another additive…

Tobacco giants targeted weight conscious

British and American tobacco companies deliberately added powerful appetite-suppressing chemicals to cigarettes to attract people worried about their weight, according to internal industry documents dating from 1949 to 1999.

Maybe they should be made to add birth control instead, that would suppress a few of the stupid genes.
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April 25, 2011 9:53pm
bc

But here’s the thing wat. You expect shops to be open 24 hours a day, 365 days a year so that your personal freedom to buy stuff isn’t compromised. By having that personal freedom, you take away the personal freedom of a lot of other people to spend quality time with their friends and families.
Kind of egocentric, there!
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April 25, 2011 10:06pm
slightlyrighty

Dabney, yes. a shop owner can choose to open a shop or not. My employer opened his shop. Do you really think I, and my 35 odd co-workers had a choice about going to work or not? How about MY personal freedom dickhead!

How about my Kid’s right to have dad at home on a holiday?

What about my Co Worker’s rights to be with their families?

I can’t get those days back. You can go shopping tomorrow. Your selfishness astounds me.
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April 26, 2011 6:59am
starboard

“Maybe I wanted to go and shop. Maybe someone wanted to open their shop to trade with me”

Exactly. Is not about wanting or needing to shop…I did all of my own shopping before the compulsory closure. Its about freedom of choice…freedom to stay open if one wishes. Freedom to go and shop if one so chooses.

“How about my Kid’s right to have dad at home on a holiday”

Where is this “right” written into law?
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April 26, 2011 7:25am
publicwatchdog

# Inventory2 (6,151) Says:
April 25th, 2011 at 8:19 pm

Well Penny, at least we’ve uncovered the depths to which you are prepared to plumb to support free speech. Morse’s action was grossly offensive and inflammatory, but I guess you will overlook that as long as her rights were protected.”

______________________________________________________________________________________________________

That is your view Inventory 2 – to which you are entitled.
I don’t share it and neither, as I understand it, did the NZ Supreme Court.

Some people find WAR ‘grossly offensive’ and use ANZAC day to make that point.

If there hadn’t been a WAR – those whose sacrifices are being commemorated wouldn’t have died?

Arguably, ‘Inventory 2’ you have equally revealed how shallow is your commitment to ‘free speech’?

Penny Bright
http://waterpressure.wordpress.com
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April 26, 2011 9:23am
Nookin

Penny
As I understand it, the Supreme Court has not yet delivered a decision on the merits of the Morse case so it maybe a little early to say that the Supreme Court has expressed a view. It granted leave to appeal in May 2010. The case was argued in October but there is no final decision. The transcript of the argument is available on the Supreme Court website and it makes interesting reading.
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April 26, 2011 11:13am
alex Masterley

Nookin,
Interesting stuff.
What I had not realised was that Robert Erwood had win in the SC.
Wonders never cease.
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April 26, 2011 11:31am
Longknives

Publicwatchdog- I find it intriguing that you find War “Grossly Offensive” yet the concept of people running around in the Ureweras training to blow up dams and murder people for political reasons is some kind of fabulous ‘freedom of expression’…..very odd.
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April 27, 2011 10:25am

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