General Debate 23 May 2011

May 23rd, 2011 at 8:00 am by David Farrar
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87 Responses to “General Debate 23 May 2011”

  1. Monty (964 comments) says:

    Will Labour ever introduce a policy that cannot easiyl be decontructed by a 15 year old economics student?

    Dragons

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  2. TimG_Oz (917 comments) says:

    I miss Haiku Dave
    He always had
    neat things to say

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  3. slightlyrighty (2,496 comments) says:

    Monty.

    What I find frustrating is that these policies that can be deconstructed by a 15 year old economics student, are not so well examined by 45 year old journalists.

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  4. ciaron (1,318 comments) says:

    I’d just like to point out that Harold Camping does not speak for the majority of Christians.

    So, did everyone have a great weekend?

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  5. Murray (8,838 comments) says:

    Well I was so suprised that Goff came out with policies that were so in tune with the media stories of last week.

    Who could possibly have seen that Labour would have been working on a hate the farmers policy while the dompost was coincidently printing an edition that looked like WAR DECLARED edition with its RED banner and hysterial oversized fonts.

    Someone pointed out to them the requirement for authorisation statements if they’re going to be giving free add space to labour… or is outright collusion acceptable now?

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  6. flipper (3,590 comments) says:

    Now , now children. Let us NOT over-react so early in the morning. Anyway, it’s “be nice to Phillie day.”

    But really, never mind him. What about Kelly on Pike River? Extraordinary! Unbeleivable – except from someone like her.

    Love to see her summoned before the Royal Commission and required to justify her slander.

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  7. Rufus (621 comments) says:

    Ciaron 8:16

    :)

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  8. Elaycee (4,305 comments) says:

    Labour wannabe Tapu Misa made this comment in her regular NZ Herald column today: “I know [some] who voted for National in the last election because they liked the look of John Key and disliked Helen Clark and her godless gay-loving feminist anti-smacking family-unfriendly Labour Party…..”

    Would love to be a fly on the wall next time she shares the same room with the feminazi…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10727378

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  9. Longknives (4,471 comments) says:

    Is anybody in New Zealand going to fork out $39.95 to watch Sonny Bill Williams pretending he’s a boxer? Strutting and preening around the ring against a 44 year-old ‘Human Punching Bag’ does not make you a ‘boxer’ mate….

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  10. Longknives (4,471 comments) says:

    Tapu Misa is a very strange woman. Her weekly rants are all over the place….apparently only ‘Conservative Christians’ vote National?

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  11. Brian Smaller (3,999 comments) says:

    Need some help commenters.

    We already have a dog (male Maremma, 18 months). We acquired an 8 month old Maremma female. She came from good home where she grew up with litter mates and a house load of animals and kids. She is however a very shy dog. What is the best way to integrate her into a new pack?

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  12. nasska (10,696 comments) says:

    Okay, the Rapture turned out to be a bit of a non event but it could have been managed better…

    http://theoatmeal.com/comics/rapture

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  13. ciaron (1,318 comments) says:

    I keep getting her confused with a cuppa misu.

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  14. Inventory2 (10,114 comments) says:

    Or TiraMisu

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  15. Dave Mann (1,170 comments) says:

    I watched Q+A’s Budget Edition last night and I think we are really in trouble unless we do something fast. Is this sad pinko git Bill English the best we can do as a finance minister, really? He seems to have absolutely no imagination nor the brains to understand the problems we face let alone the solution.

    And where does anybody get this magical future 4% growth figure from… what’s the basis for this wild hope? And to cap it off they then started to talk about how somebody earning $70,000 p.a. would be $20 p.w. worse off under the new WFF! This in a country which is teetering on the brink of joining the Third World.

    Deck chairs on the Titanic.

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  16. gravedodger (1,517 comments) says:

    Good morning every body, still here with all my worldly possessions, John Key is still being transparent and trusting the voters, Phill Goff has not yet accepted that “socialism will last until he runs out of other peoples money to fund it”, Helen Kelly is still being an arse, Harold Camping is still a preacher but temporarily absent to the Media, The Crusaders won and away “home”game”, The Herald is still full of shit, and “rapture proves that fools and their money will soon be parted.
    Monday May 23 and not much has changed.

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  17. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    Is Goofy quite mad? He wants to grow NZ economically,this involves taking form the evil, nasty, socialist hating farmers. Surely if must be plane to the all but the very stupid why this emissions scheme is simply straight out theft Anyhow for the life of me how is wealth redistribution growing the country economically or am I missing something here. If this is Liarbore’s economic policy then these pricks would struggle to sell sweets to the morbidly obese.

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  18. berend (1,634 comments) says:

    “John Key is still being transparent and trusting the voters”

    Ah you mean he introduced ETS when he said he wouldn’t, is tinkering with WWF so the marginal tax rate is even higher, promises magic if we just re-elect him, and is leading a government that spends more of NZ’s GDP than ever before?

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  19. gravedodger (1,517 comments) says:

    @ Brian Smaller, My advice, place newbie in an open space, allow the occupants to come to Newbie one at a time, no restraints on any of them and allow the pack to establish their “order”, leave the more aggressive till later, let natural behavour manifest but be ready to intervene to save life but not limb.
    Unrestrained canines rapidly establish dominance and submission unless there is mongrel attitude from training and or genetic factors.
    On leashes there is an interference to that establishment.
    Good luck, much happiness and many smiles.

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  20. Inventory2 (10,114 comments) says:

    To be fair to Key Berend (and I know that you’d want to be), National DID campaign on repealing Labour’s ETS, and replacing it with their own less punitive version. I disagree with the ETS, and the “climate science” which underpins it, but it was something that National signalled ahead of the election.

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  21. Murray (8,838 comments) says:

    berend if you’re going to campaign for labour tell us what they’re good for.

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  22. s.russell (1,565 comments) says:

    A couple of interesting items in The Southland Times today:

    John Key visits Oyster Festival:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/5039507/Oyster-lovers-come-in-their-thousands/

    Only one thing was on Prime Minister John Key’s mind.

    “Eating my own bodyweight in oysters … so if I explode on Monday you’ll know why,” he said. “It’s a tough job but someone’s got to do it.”

    The day’s editorial laughs at Labour’s Ministry for Children idea and asks: “Ministry for Kittens and Puppies to follow? ”
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/opinion/5039506/Editorial-What-about-the-children

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  23. Manolo (13,396 comments) says:

    …National DID campaign on repealing Labour’s ETS, and replacing it with their own less punitive version.

    You’re a generous man, IV2.
    The situation with the ETS is akin to choosing between death by hanging or arsenic poison. Either alternative is appalling and without scientific foundation. In other words, it’s a tax grab.

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  24. TripeWryter (715 comments) says:

    I said on Saturday that there would be a counter-revolt over the Wellywood sign.

    Support on Sean Plunket’s radio talkback so far this morning is overwhelming support.

    If those of you who think the sign is cringe-making all I can say is go and cringe. Why should the rest of us care?

    The sign is harmless fun.

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  25. Fletch (6,031 comments) says:

    TimG,

    I believe that the most usual/popular form of Haiku has 5 syllables, followed by 7 syllables, followed by 5.

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  26. Manolo (13,396 comments) says:

    The Dom Post reports. Read and laugh:

    Former Wellington mayor and architect Sir Michael Fowler penned his support in a handwritten letter to The Dominion Post yesterday.

    He wrote that, since its conception, “I’ve believed it to be clever, witty and relevant and its critics dumb, humourless, totally irrelevant and probably Irish”.

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  27. Komata (1,113 comments) says:

    Although I posted this on the ‘Ministry for Children’ thread, I fear I may have been a little to late in doing so, so herewith for your (polite) thoughts:

    ‘There is perhaps another aspect to this, which is not so silly -’Control’.

    As we know. the Socialsits’ (‘Labour’ in New Zealand) are control freaks, and are also dedicated, idealogically, to the destruction of the Family.

    In that context, it makes perfectly good logic to the socialist mind, to create a ‘Children’s Commission’ (Ministry of Children) and use it to exercise ever increasing control over the new generation under the guise of ‘protecting’ the helpless.

    I cannot remember which Roman Catholic ‘high-up’ made the observation about ‘giving us a child before he is seven and we have him forever’ (or words to that effect), but this new proposed ‘safeguard’ is very much in the same vein and is no different to the child-indoctrination practices pervalent in Communist Bloc countries or China.

    it’s all to do with ‘indoctrination’ and control, and absolutely NOTHING to do with genuine welfare. That Labour should ditch the ‘Families Commission’ with such alacrity is also revealing and proof that, if you can’t get control one way, then there are certainly others.

    BTW: Is Annette King a parent?’

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  28. iMP (2,247 comments) says:

    SPAIN. B interesting to watch this civil protest in an open democracy compared to N. Africa and middle east.
    Is this the spread of the Islamic Spring? By the way, Obama on 1967 parameters, and his spin back-peddling ~ priceless.

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  29. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    Helen Kelly is still being an arse,

    Well no. the point she was making is thatoverseas companies can come here to work, have a disaster( not intended of course), go into recievership lose all their moneyand assets and can longer be held accountable forthe cost or the results as they have run away again off shore.
    Now I don’t towhat extentthis can/isdone but its a fair question to look at. e.g should a bond be forthcoming to cover thes evetualities. Question Why should taxpayers have to fund the aftermath?

    Fair questions I think.

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  30. dime (9,472 comments) says:

    “go into recievership lose all their moneyand assets and can longer be held accountable forthe cost or the results as they have run away again off shore.”

    so they have lost everything, but somehow you want more money out of them.

    i gotta be honest, im over hearing from the pyke river families.

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  31. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    Hey dime, put your thinking cap back on. Its the taxpayer who is wearing the cost. Do you like paying the tax to fund this?

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  32. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    Or this?
    Its not what know but whoyou know>

    Tax breaks for rugby bodies
    By Jamie Morton
    5:30 AM Friday May 20, 2011

    The Government has confirmed special tax breaks in the Budget for the two major rugby organisations behind the Rugby World Cup.

    Finance Minister Bill English confirmed the Crown would reimburse income tax incurred by Rugby New Zealand 2011, the company set up to run the tournament, and also by the New Zealand Rugby Union where it was involved.

    This is the headline from this morning that DPF missed. Well itshidden away ion the paper.
    We have great deficits and the Nats in collusion with their rugby playing mates (Trev) at Labour manage to gift the rugby outfits more taxpayer money. And don’t bother with the line its their money. I don’t get these privilages for my business and neither do most of us.

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  33. 103PapPap (129 comments) says:

    I saw that bit on TV3 news last night about Obama going back to Moneygall in Ireland where his great great great grandfather was born. Funny, didn’t see any people who looked like Kenyans there …

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  34. ciaron (1,318 comments) says:

    V2; sorry, where did you get that story? I’m interested in finding out more because there are no condescending snipes in your post and I can read it to the end with ease.

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  35. dime (9,472 comments) says:

    Viking2 – personally i dont think we should be paying a cent. Id let the bodies lay where they are.

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  36. TripeWryter (715 comments) says:

    103PapPap:

    Haven’t you heard of ‘Black Irish’?

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  37. Manolo (13,396 comments) says:

    The Messiah back-pedals (“misrepresented” is now an euphemism for a slip of the tongue):

    Claiming his remarks earlier this week on borders for Israel and a future Palestinian state had been misrepresented, President Obama said Sunday that “1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps” means the two sides will “negotiate a border that is different than the one that existed on June 4, 1967.”

    In remarks Sunday to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the president tried to explain his earlier position to a warm but occasionally tentative crowd by saying that his speech Thursday at the State Department didn’t offer anything new or provocative in the way of peace negotiations.

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  38. ciaron (1,318 comments) says:

    Sunday that “1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps

    If the two parties could mutually agree on boarders we wouldn’t be in this situation.

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  39. berend (1,634 comments) says:

    And what am I reading just now? Govt spending up 24% in last 4 yrs.

    I finally understand what National supporters mean with “direction”.

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  40. berend (1,634 comments) says:

    Inventory2: To be fair to Key Berend (and I know that you’d want to be), National DID campaign on repealing Labour’s ETS, and replacing it with their own less punitive version.

    They did NOT campaign on that. John Key wanted to be a follower, instead he became a leader, so we’re all paying more taxes now. And government spending up by 24% in last 4 years. Guess he campaigned on that too huh?

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  41. MT_Tinman (2,995 comments) says:

    V2, 10:46

    It’s been hidden on one of the MSM’s front page, with a picture of Robbie Deans to bring attention to it for days now.

    Non-story really.

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  42. berend (1,634 comments) says:

    Murray: berend if you’re going to campaign for labour tell us what they’re good for.

    What exactly is the difference between Labour and National Murray? Spending up, borrowing up, tax up, cost of living up, more people than ever moving overseas.

    Hurray for the great salesman.

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  43. David Garrett (6,463 comments) says:

    I am slowly working my way through David Fraser’s book “Badlands: a land fit for criminals” which gives explanations for the huge increase in crime in this country over the last 50 years.

    I already knew that the oft repeated false claim that we had the second highest imprisonment rate in the western world was crap (we are in fact about seventh), but I often wondered what our figures were like in the the past compared with now, given that in my lifetime even minor assaults could result in jail time whereas now you have to try very hard to get to prison.

    turns out that if you measure imprisonment rates against CONVICTIONS – as opposed to the relatively meaningless “per 100,000 of population” – the stats are very interesting. In short, for every 100 convictions prior to about 1955, more than four of those convicted were jailed. Now, of every 100 convictions, about 1.5 criminals go to jail.

    In other words, our imprisoment rate is about 3 – 4 times LOWER than it was in the 1950′s, and a convicted criminal has much less chance of being jailed than 50 years ago.

    New Zealand’s imprisonment rate per 100,000 of population (which includes everyone, criminal and law abiding) is about 200, whereas in the US it was over 800 when I last checked. In other words, the US rate, even on a pure population basis, is four times ours. We used to be able to console ourselves that crime was “much worse in America”, and while their homicide rate is still much higher than ours, the stats are going in the right direction. Homicides in New York State are about one sixth annually what they were in 1991.

    Be interested to see what others make of these figures…

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  44. Mick Mac (1,091 comments) says:

    Brian Smaller (3,087) Says:
    May 23rd, 2011 at 8:48 am

    I’m with gravedodger.
    Also if you are the alpha male then your attitude towards her will out too.
    as a pack they’ll accept her if she fits in. nothing you can do there accept growl them off.

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  45. nasska (10,696 comments) says:

    Mick Mac @ 11.51am

    It’s always amusing watching pet owners (often mad women) trying to treat their dog as an equal or a small child. The dog is incapable of reacting to anything beyond its understanding as a pack animal & all the fluff in the world cannot hide that the best status a dog owner can hope for is that of pack leader.

    That said the advice offered by gravedodger & yourself is spot on. Best of luck with your new boarder Brian.

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  46. Lance (2,461 comments) says:

    @103Papa and his side kick Tripewriter

    Stop being a troll

    Attack the man on his policies, not his ethnicity. It stinks of racism

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  47. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    ciaron (678) Says:
    May 23rd, 2011 at 11:05 am

    V2; sorry, where did you get that story? I’m interested in finding out more because there are no condescending snipes in your post and I can read it to the end with ease.

    Here you go.
    Finance Minister Bill English confirmed the Crown would reimburse income tax incurred by Rugby New Zealand 2011, the company set up to run the tournament, and also by the New Zealand Rugby Union where it was involved.

    Exporters, scientists and those who create our wealth get taxed while Rugby gets tax breaks. Sooner the Nats. get sent packing the better.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10726772

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  48. ciaron (1,318 comments) says:

    Okay, so, how does this deal compare with what has been done in previous RWC’s & other events like com/olympic games, football WC netball WC?

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  49. Mick Mac (1,091 comments) says:

    Viking 2
    It does seem ludicrous doesn’t it. taxpayers funding a commercial business that will make millions and people need serious help here.

    Just for asset sales and Kiwisaver stuff around I’d like to get rid of Key but who is the alternative?
    and he knows it.
    Goff and Labour shouldn’t be allowed in parliament let alone on the govt benches so who realistically is another option?

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  50. JP1983 (11 comments) says:

    To komata @ 9.59
    Btw is Annette king a parent?

    Answer yes

    Her daughter crashed her mothers minestrial car a few years back

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  51. trout (904 comments) says:

    V2, you need to know that Pike River Coal is a NZ Company (listed in NZ and Oz) that has mainly NZ shareholders. And you may recall that the NZ Govt. footed the massive bill for cleaning up after the Erebus disaster.

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  52. voice of reason (491 comments) says:

    “TripeWryter (560) Says:
    …Haven’t you heard of ‘Black Irish’?”

    Phil Lynott – Thin Lizzy !!!

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  53. DJP6-25 (1,274 comments) says:

    Komata 9:59 am. You are right of course. It also has the bonus of providing a career structure for a bunch of sicialists with degrees in ‘dike studies’, and ‘psyc’.

    cheers

    David Prosser

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  54. Komata (1,113 comments) says:

    David P

    So correct, and if you make sure (as the Min’ of ‘Ed’ does) that the ‘littley’s DON’T KNOW that homosexuality isn’t normal for either gender, then you have succeeded admirably. To the deviants, all means are justifiable to achieve their end – ‘normalcy’ (their version).

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  55. Manolo (13,396 comments) says:

    Life is never dull in Russia, isn’t it?

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/putin-decides-to-retake-presidency/story-e6frg6so-1226060709096

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  56. Manolo (13,396 comments) says:

    Not much of a surprise. Question is: did he make it to NAMBLA? :-)
    http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110521/D9NBQ01G0.html

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  57. nasska (10,696 comments) says:

    Manolo @ 4.08pm

    It’s beyond all belief when the organisation’s hierarchy consider an explanation possible. What will it take to drag these miserable people into a state of accountability?

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  58. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/the-silence/timeline/

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  59. Manolo (13,396 comments) says:

    A failed nation goes begging: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3914bd36-8467-11e0-afcb-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1N9Xv33tx
    The Pakistanis never had any shame, least of all now.

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  60. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    What’s another naval base when you’ve already had the help with the nukes.

    http://www.claws.in/index.php?action=master&task=697&u_id=36

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  61. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    Well done David Cameron …

    David Cameron: marriage is key to stable society

    David Cameron will today reaffirm his commitment to the institution of marriage and the importance to children of stable relationships.
    ::
    “Now I have always made it clear what I think about the family. I think families are immensely important.

    “I am pro-commitment, I back marriage and I think it’s a wonderfully precious institution.

    “Strong families are where children learn to become responsible people. When you grow up in a strong family, you learn how to behave, you learn about give and take.

    “You learn about responsibility and how to live in harmony with others. Strong families are the foundation of a bigger, stronger society. This isn’t some romanticised fiction. It’s a fact.

    “There’s a whole body of evidence that shows how a bad relationship between parents means a child is more likely to live in poverty, fail at school, end up in prison or be unemployed in later life.”

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  62. KH (687 comments) says:

    I too am overhearing from Pike River families

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  63. Rodders (1,790 comments) says:

    Winston is warning of a “Chinese takeover.” It must be election year.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10727543

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  64. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    trout (486) Says:
    May 23rd, 2011 at 2:33 pm

    V2, you need to know that Pike River Coal is a NZ Company (listed in NZ and Oz) that has mainly NZ shareholders. And you may recall that the NZ Govt. footed the massive bill for cleaning up after the Erebus disaster.

    The operative word is “was”. The company the receivers now control will be almost certainly liquidated due to lack of funds i.e. insolvent.
    The shareholders will have lost their funds but will no longer be accountable as shareholders of the company for any costs or longterm effects. That will fall upon the taxpayer of NZ.
    Not entirely their fault as that’s the way the Law is. Limited Liability companies.
    What the individual directors and Employees feel will naturally be different and many will care but their liability has ceased.

    In the case of Air NZ the taxpayer picked up the tab and has continued to do so 20 years on.

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  65. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    Select committee recommends internet voting

    Monday, 23, May, 2011 4:46PM

    A select committee has recommended a trial of internet voting in the 2013 local body elections.

    It’s one of several proposals put forward after a review of the 2010 council elections.

    Some submitters were upset that they missed out on voting because they were overseas and did not receive their documents in the post, which is why the committee said the Government should look at online voting.

    The select committee’s also suggested candidate names on voting papers be totally randomised, because of concerns raised by some submitters that candidates are disadvantaged when the order is alphabetical.

    The issue of candidates standing for multiple positions on different boards was also raised, with MPs on the committee recommending the Government examine the issue.

    By Katie Bradford-Crozier

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  66. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Only in America China.

    http://en.rocketnews24.com/2011/05/06/china-develops-automated-semen-collector-for-science/

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  67. F E Smith (3,302 comments) says:

    So here is a question that may or may not interest you: Is police fabrication of evidence to obtain a conviction of obviously guilty people acceptable? In NSW it is to the Cops, not to the Courts, but is not so bad as to warrant imprisonment of the offending officers.

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/police-step-over-the-thin-blue-line-20110521-1exnk.html

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  68. Alan Wilkinson (1,816 comments) says:

    FE Smith, an interesting issue. The cops lied about what they did rather than what the offenders did. Dishonest cops should be dismissed – that seems to be the over-riding priority. Whether they should have been jailed rather than receiving suspended sentences is a little more problematic. Presumably the evidence they obtained illegally could equally have been obtained legally by staking out and isolating the property while a valid search warrant was being arranged.

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  69. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    Small swing from National to Labour over last two weeks, but still no plausible left-wing combination for government, iPredict says
    Based on this data, and the electorate results above, Parliament would be as follows: National 57 MPs, Labour 38 MPs, the Greens 9 MPs, Act 9 MPs, the Maori and UnitedFuture parties 3 MPs each and the Mana Party 2 MPs.

    http://www.interest.co.nz/news/53576/small-swing-national-labour-over-last-two-weeks-still-no-plausible-left-wing-combination-

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  70. Caleb (467 comments) says:

    cha.. can it cook?

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  71. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    If only it could Caleb.

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  72. Caleb (467 comments) says:

    a prostate examination at the same time?

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  73. F E Smith (3,302 comments) says:

    but shouldn’t we expect total honesty from the police, to a far higher standard than from the general public? Shouldn’t instances of corruption (which is what this is) be dealt with harshly as a deterrent to other officers?

    After all, this isn’t very unusual, either in Australia or NZ. What is unusual is that another policeman reported them. That being the case, wouldn’t a prison sentence be more necessary, not less?

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  74. Alan Wilkinson (1,816 comments) says:

    Yes, we should expect and insist on total honesty on pain of dismissal. You seem to be saying that because it happens often but is rarely successfully prosecuted courts should punish harshly. I’m inclined to the opposite view that it is better to get rid of the bad apples more often if cheaply rather than keep the penalties so high that corruption mostly gets hidden.

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  75. nasska (10,696 comments) says:

    It’s probably worth considering that judges would be loath to send ex cops to prison because of the a dangers they would face from fellow inmates. Even if the sentence seems light the police force is at least rid of them.

    I’ve often thought of NZ Police as not corrupt, in the sense of leaving a couple of $50′s in your license holder, but if they decide that they know who’s guilty then they are very capable of giving justice a helping hand.

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  76. Pete George (22,866 comments) says:

    The latest New Zealand Roy Morgan Poll: (May 2-15, 2011, pre-budget)

    National-led Government 57.5% (up 1.5%).
    National Party 53% (up 0.5%)
    Maori Party 2% (unchanged)
    ACT NZ 2% (up 1%)
    United Future 0.5% (unchanged).

    Opposition Parties 42.5% (down 1.5%)
    Labour Party 28% (down 3%)
    Greens 10%, (up 2.5%)
    New Zealand First 3% (down 1.5%)
    Progressive Party 0.5% (unchanged)
    Others 1% (up 0.5%).

    Government Confidence Rating 126.5 (up 7.5 points)
    New Zealand is ‘heading in the right direction’ 56.5% (up 3%)
    New Zealand is ‘heading in the wrong direction’ 30% (down 4.5%)

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  77. F E Smith (3,302 comments) says:

    Nasska, your last sentence is only too true, sadly. With regard your first sentence, I understand the point but don’t think it should enter into consideration, simply because Police corruption is such a serious matter.

    Alan, I do take the opposite view. If it isn’t prosecuted often but the offending is not uncommon, then considering the type of offending we are talking about (attempting to pervert the course of justice) and considering that non-Police officers would almost certainly be imprisoned, I think in this case the officers should be imprisoned. The Police need to be held to a higher standard of honesty in the course of their duty, and the punishment for willful perversion of the course of justice (for whatever reason) should be punished harshly.

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  78. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Nasska

    Unfortunately, I know several of my ex collegues who have been sent to prison and generally with a bit added on because of their previous profession. The Judge had no problems whatsoever in doing this.

    And seriously, you in no way can compare the NSW Police to the NZ Police. Endemic corruption is part and parcel of operating in NSW.

    Perverting the course of justice in my mind is one of the most serious stautes on our books, no matter who is involved.

    Our justice system should be protected at all costs and the main way of doing this is to have a penalty so substantial that it bears thinking about before any such behaviour is contemplated

    And on a lighter note, I believe at anyone time there are always more ex lawyers banged up in NZ prisons than ex Coppers

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  79. F E Smith (3,302 comments) says:

    “you in no way can compare the NSW Police to the NZ Police”

    Paul, I agree with regards scale and seriousness, but the fact remains that honesty, whether in the witness box or during the investigation, is not really a requirement of being a police officer in NZ. But NSW, Qld and Victoria cops leave ours for dead when it comes to scale and frequency.

    I am not sure about your last one sentence though. Very few lawyers ever go to prison. Even now I am struggling to think of any who might be in prison in NZ, possibly that one from Hamilton that got caught up in that property scam. Cops don’t generally go to prison because they fight all charges tooth and nail and juries like them. But I know of a number who should be have gone to prison. Much harder to say that about lawyers.

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  80. Puzzled in Ekatahuna (338 comments) says:

    A former MP played a part in a fraudulent money-go-round involving children’s books, a Serious Fraud Office prosecutor has told a judge.
    The former MP, whose name is suppressed, is on trial in Auckland District Court with three others accused of involvement in a swindle involving hundreds of thousands of dollars between 2003 and 2005.

    Why?

    Delivering his closing submissions, prosecutor Mike Ruffin said the MP and another accused, Robert Briggs, arranged for a charitable trust, the name of which is suppressed, to enter into arrangements for the supply of children’s books by a company owned by the former MP.

    Why?

    Defence lawyers are due to present their arguments on Wednesday in the trial, which is being heard by Judge Roderick Joyce without a jury.

    Why? – to that as well

    - http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/5044013/Former-MP-in-childrens-books-scam

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  81. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    FESmith

    ………………………… Much harder to say that about lawyers.

    I hope the wind does not change with ya tongue planted so firmly in your cheek, because you’ll look bloody silly at work.

    But seriously….Cops don’t generally go to prison because they fight all charges tooth and nail and juries like them..

    About the mid 80′s the NZ Police de facto adopted a policy that if there was a prima face case on paper they would send the cop to Court and let the Courts decide because this took pressure off the administration they were protecting their own. very cynical but you get that way when dragging yourself up the corporate ladder.

    Any way since this time there has been a steady stream of acquittals because generally the prosecution case has been weak and more of a political expediency that good investigation.

    And of course good defence work by your colleagues.

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  82. Puzzled in Ekatahuna (338 comments) says:

    Oops! that didn’t set bold type for the suppressions, but they are what I was questioning ‘Why?’ and the trial without jury.

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  83. Viking2 (11,147 comments) says:

    Increasing or not GDP.

    http://eye2thelongrun.blogspot.com/2010/09/gems-in-rubble-economic-process-is.html

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  84. Fisiani (954 comments) says:

    Labour’s planned TALL POPPY TAX is a disgrace.

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  85. Bobbie black (507 comments) says:

    @Cha – they took the fun out of it plus a lot of Chinese “nurses” are now looking for work:

    http://www.worldsstrangest.com/unbelievable/men-sperm-bank-in-china/

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  86. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    @Fisiani – Agreed. It has nothing to do with raising tax revenue, and everything to do with giving their faithful an opportunity to vent their spiteful envy. Oh, and it also helps swell the ranks of the state-dependent faithful as the rich pricks (aka wealth creators) move away thereby reducing their tax contribution to zero.

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  87. Manolo (13,396 comments) says:

    The socialists savaged by today’s Dom Post editorial:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/5044070/Editorial-Labour-far-from-its-founding-philosophy

    Labour is practising the politics of envy. Its tactics raise an obvious question. It is less than three years since the party’s nine-year reign in government ended. Why didn’t it do these things then? The answer is obvious. They didn’t make any more sense then than they do now.

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