PM’s response to Goff

May 19th, 2011 at 3:56 pm by David Farrar



No words are needed.

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104 Responses to “PM’s response to Goff”

  1. ross (1,437 comments) says:

    Strange speech. He looked especially pleased with himself which was curious given the parlous state of the economy. What would he do if the economy was in better shape – cartwheel in front of the Speaker? His jobs strategy – if it can be called that – is dependent upon Peter Jackson making films here, it seems. Talk about underwhelming.

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  2. ross (1,437 comments) says:

    “stable sensible government” – I thought that was Peter Dunne’s line.

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  3. backster (2,171 comments) says:

    That was a great oration. Who is the good looking woman seated behind him.

    [DPF: that would be Junior Whip, Jo Goodhew]

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  4. gravedodger (1,566 comments) says:

    Jo Goodhew Rangitata

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  5. jaba (2,141 comments) says:

    I have always thought that Jo was a hottie
    maybe Goff shouldn’t have mentioned that it was the worst budget he had seen in his 27 years in the house

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  6. Scott (1,792 comments) says:

    Ross — I thought it was an excellent speech. It was good to see the Prime Minister get excited and get some fire in his belly. I thought it was a great speech, made a lot of sense to me and shows he does have some vision and some passion. Great job!

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  7. berend (1,708 comments) says:

    I just don’t get it: John Key says with a straight face: the only way NZers got ahead under Labour was by borrowing more money.

    What exactly is borrowing $380 million a month, or 10% of GDP?

    Ah. That’s “different”.

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  8. berend (1,708 comments) says:

    Hmm, he continues with borrow and hope. That’s supposedly funny.

    Anyone else doesn’t find this speech funny either???

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  9. ross (1,437 comments) says:

    Scott – you are obviously easily impressed. If Key loses the election, he says he’ll quit politics. So much for having fire in his belly! Where was the vision when he cut taxes for the well off last year? This budget recognises that that was a big mistake.

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  10. berend (1,708 comments) says:

    Another howler: “We put our money on the line.”

    No, you don’t John Key. That’s OUR money.

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  11. ross (1,437 comments) says:

    > I just don’t get it: John Key says with a straight face: the only way NZers got ahead under Labour was by borrowing more money. What exactly is borrowing $380 million a month, or 10% of GDP?

    To be fair, Berend, it does show that Key has potential as a stand up comic.

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  12. jaba (2,141 comments) says:

    Key was on fire .. where was Daffy?

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  13. berend (1,708 comments) says:

    John Key: “interest rates will be lower under a National government”

    The economic illiteracy of this man is just scary.

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  14. Nigel (514 comments) says:

    I like it, Labour needed that speech, the tweets from their MP’s are economic trash.

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  15. berend (1,708 comments) says:

    We’re an ipad government wirelessly walking around, and therefore we’re building fibre tethers.

    Ah, say what????

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  16. Jimbob (641 comments) says:

    Considering that state of the major western countries’ debt, forecasting 4% growth and 170,000 new jobs is quite bizarre. Sleep walking into a bear trap.

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  17. Scott (1,792 comments) says:

    Ross — you are probably a left-wing kind of guy. The main problem is that taxes are just not high enough?

    I agree with tax cuts. I would like more tax cuts. I would like to keep more of my own money and spend it how I choose. The left-wing like to keep more of my money and spend it how they choose. It’s an ideological chasm really.

    But look — you are talking about vision. From a left-winger that usually means another big government program and more taxes, particularly on the middle and upper income earners. Lay out your vision.

    The National party has a vision of people keeping more of their own money. Lower tax rates gives incentives for people to work harder, invest more, build businesses and increase the economic pie while doing so. That’s what National parties do.

    For myself I would like to have seen bigger economic cuts. But politically it would be suicide at this point.

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  18. berend (1,708 comments) says:

    Scott: “he National party has a vision of people keeping more of their own money.”

    Really? How much have they delivered on that exactly?

    Remember the tax cuts? They cancelled two trenches, and the remainder was supposedly budget neutral, i.e. there was NO CUT to government spending. They gave with one hand, and took with another.

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  19. Scott (1,792 comments) says:

    Berend-a fair question. Basically National is philosophically about less government, cutting taxes and allowing people to spend their own money how they want to. Therefore National has cut personal income tax rates. To my knowledge the labour government of the previous nine years did not ever cut personal tax rates, despite wonderful economic conditions. Instead they spent on new redistribution programs — Working for Families being the premier example and also increased entitlements in other areas — interest-free student loans comes to mind here.

    Now yes they did raise GST. Not a move I agreed with. However my understanding is that the state of the books meant that they had to do so.

    This budget is trimming spending and not raising taxes. That’s good in these economic circumstances. They have not raise taxes, so people can keep more of their own money through hard work, increased education, investing in a business — whatever.

    The other party would undoubtedly have raised taxes and therefore people would keep less of their own money. The reason the other party would do this is so that they can redistribute it to other people. That is because the other party knows better how to spend your money than you do.

    Please tell us what you would do. You seem to be a right-winger? Or are you attacking them from the left? To be honest I don’t know what you stand for?

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  20. Lindsay Addie (1,507 comments) says:

    I didn’t think Keys speech was a classic by any stretch, but it was better than what Goff’s mouth blurted out.

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  21. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Berend said…
    They gave with one hand, and took with another.

    That’s how Bernie Madoff operated his Ponzi scheme. It’s ironic, John Key was telling Phil Goff in his speech that Goff wants to emulate Bernie Madoff’s type scheme and at the same time, he and the National Govt is doing exactly that.

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  22. lastmanstanding (1,293 comments) says:

    Phil Goff

    You are the weakest leak

    Goodbye

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  23. virtualmark (1,523 comments) says:

    berend:

    The economic illiteracy of this man is just scary.

    Really? He was the global head of foreign exchange at Merrill Lynch, and a member of the Foreign Exchange committee of the New York Federal Reserve. Yeah, those are roles they give to economic illiterates. I’ll bet good money that John Key’s understanding and knowledge of economics way outstrips yours.

    His words that you took exception to, “interest rates will be lower under a National government”, sound right to me. If you think National is borrowing a lot of money then perhaps you could tell us how Labour would borrow less. Because from what I’ve seen Labour’s platform seems to be about spending even more money than National is. And if you think this is a good time to raise taxes then your economic illiteracy is showing.

    I don’t like the amount of money we’re borrowing currently. And I think the Government hasn’t been tough enough on stripping out low-value spending from its budget.

    But I can accept that if the Government slashed its spending by the $10 billion or so it might look at first glance it needs to to balance the budget then we would (a) cause an immense amount of misery among the less well off (you know, those people that keep voting Labour) and (b) plunge the economy deeply into a long recession. Taking out debt at this stage of the economic cycle and repaying at the top of the cycle is what you’d expect a prudent manager would be doing.

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  24. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,903 comments) says:

    virtualmark

    Quite so.

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  25. Manolo (13,746 comments) says:

    The National party has a vision of people keeping more of their own money.

    Utter bullshit. None of today’s Labour lite die-hard supporters and sycophants do not believe in that any more. Just ask Adolf.

    The founding principles of the National Party were ditched by the current pinko leadership over a decade ago.

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  26. NX (504 comments) says:

    I didn’t think Keys speech was a classic by any stretch, but it was better than what Goff’s mouth blurted out.

    What struck me was how confident John Key sounded. People like confidence.

    While Phil Goff’s speech was in his usual ‘vein popping’ style, he didn’t sound very convinced by his own words. I suspect he secretly like’s JK’s budget.

    In any case, it was nice to finally hear the opposition talk about the deficit.

    Why haven’t they talked about the deficit up until now? Probably because doing so acknowledges the previous Labour’s role they played in creating it.

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  27. ross (1,437 comments) says:

    Scott – by left wing do you mean fair? Because that’s what I am. Was it fair for John Key to get a $14,000 tax cut last year? And that was on top of the pay rise he got just in time for Xmas.

    Those in need should get the most assistance.

    John Key has fire in his belly, according to you, but where’s National’s policy to means test superannuation? Key is scared to touch super because he knows it’ll cost him votes. He’s scared to make the tough decisions but is quite happy to pay himself more. Weak.

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  28. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    great speech. he destroyed goff. well done.

    as a “rich prick”, im just happy when a budget passes that doesnt increase my income tax

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  29. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    Buy some cows dime instead of whores and your income tax will drop faster than your pants can hit the floor in a cat house. :)

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  30. reid (16,441 comments) says:

    He was the global head of foreign exchange at Merrill Lynch, and a member of the Foreign Exchange committee of the New York Federal Reserve. Yeah, those are roles they give to economic illiterates. I’ll bet good money that John Key’s understanding and knowledge of economics way outstrips yours.

    I’d say Brash has better economic qualifications than Key’s, and he strongly disagrees with various policies as we know.

    To whom should we listen? Who would be likely to know most about it?

    Good speech John, very good. Portends well for the future. You’ve overcome one of your political weaknesses – poor delivery. Congratulations.

    However.

    Don’t forget, it’s not about being popular, it’s about using your unique opportunity granted to very few for a short time only, to do the right thing, regardless of whether that’s popular or not.

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  31. ross (1,437 comments) says:

    > And if you think this is a good time to raise taxes then your economic illiteracy is showing.

    Oh but last year it was a good time to cut taxes for all, including the wealthy. Now who is illiterate when it comes to economics? Today’s budget was an admission that cutting taxes for all was a big mistake. It’s a pity Key didn’t admit that he made a mistake – that would’ve brought him plaudits.

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  32. ross (1,437 comments) says:

    > as a “rich prick”, im just happy when a budget passes that doesnt increase my income tax

    A selfish prick too…

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  33. berend (1,708 comments) says:

    Scott: Basically National is philosophically about less government, cutting taxes and allowing people to spend their own money how they want to.

    And where exactly have they delivered? GST up. ETS up. Borrowing up. More welfare, growing marginal tax rates (WFF).

    Scott, this guy is borrowing $380 million A MONTH!!!! 10% of GDP a year.

    And where I came from? From those that are not blinded by John Key. The guy is a fake. He doesn’t do what he says, he is only popular because he borrows like crazy to avoid making any unpopular moves.

    Did you have a LOOK at the actual numbers for our growth the last couple of years? All Labours fault eh? National will save us. The country is being given away to the Chinese, that’s what I see. They just became our biggest lenders.

    Please wake up Scott, can’t you say you are only TELLING us what John Key/tinkerbill/National will do? They HAVEN’T DONE anything. They’re salesman, John Key is just a brilliant salesman. He promises you whatever you want to hear.

    And on Keys’ economic literacy: lower interest rates are easy, just print more money.

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  34. reid (16,441 comments) says:

    Oh but last year it was a good time to cut taxes for all, including the wealthy.

    ross my theory without evidence but on intuition, is English fucked up his estimation of the effects of the GFC which left the Nats exposed to various electoral liabilities which weren’t necessary had the campaign team done its job properly and said we’ll be home and hosed even if we abolished the Waitangi Tribunal and allowed nukular ships to visit again.

    Unfortunately the team didn’t say that since they’re fucking morons, called Gerry and Murray, and history happened and the Nats were left with this albatross.

    I quite agree. They should have been cancelled or at the very least moderated but the Nats could hardly claim they weren’t informed since Liarbore HAD to supply the accounts (after what happened the last time they were in power…).

    I think it was a total farce, but personally I enjoyed them since it allowed me finally to restore the Bugatti I’ve had sitting in the garage for ages.

    How did you spend yours?

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  35. slightlyrighty (2,475 comments) says:

    Reid.

    While you may think that it would be better for Key to be right rather than popular, that ignores the fact that this country iss not a business where managers are appointed rather than picked by the employees. He has to balance what is right with what the electorate will accept, or find himself in a position to do nothing at all.

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  36. jaba (2,141 comments) says:

    the best part .. Phil Goff, I’ll see you on the campaign trail

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  37. reid (16,441 comments) says:

    He has to balance what is right with what the electorate will accept, or find himself in a position to do nothing at all.

    Yes he does but there is always at any given moment a factual correct answer to what the economic should be to achieve maximum prosperity is out there and it’s discovering what that is, communicating it and aligning the electorate toward it is what takes up a whole lot of air-time.

    The electorate is in no better shape to judge what’s good for them than they are to diagnose the sharp pain in their side. Frankly.

    Economics in terms of accuracy and prediction, is a high science, just like medicine.

    And Brash is a master. So why does Key disparage the master’s voice? [Yes, I know. Cause he wants to be popular and doing so is popular. Doing the right thing, is not.]

    The fundamental issue in politics which defines left and right in this country is the economy. Lefties are for strong unions and state ownership and conservatives are for the opposite. Simple as that.

    We float between the two as a country, first dragged one way then the other.

    Clark put a whole lot of things in place in this area, which need adjustment. Mostly in terms of expectations from the state.

    The issue is, Key doesn’t want to spend his political capital on it. But if he doesn’t then this attitude becomes cemented in. Middle-class welfare becomes a part of the NZ body-politic, cause when Key leaves, the 6th Liarbore govt sure as well won’t change it and by 2020 when the 6th National govt is once again in power, it won’t be on the agenda at all. At the very same moment we have the baby-boomer pressure on the health system rising very fast indeed. Both of these dynamics are huge drains.

    Politics IS about leadership and leadership is about doing the right thing not the popular thing. Leadership 101, page 1 of the course material, at any local polytech, will tell you that.

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  38. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    “He has to balance what is right with what the electorate will accept, or find himself in a position to do nothing at all.”

    Never a bloody truer word slightly and when you take a bloody good look at the “electorate” you come to realise why we end up with the useless shit we do at the top! :)

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  39. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    Politics is really only about winning the next election reid I am afraid.

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  40. reid (16,441 comments) says:

    Johnboy I know it often is, I’m saying it doesn’t have to be if you had a man of integrity at the helm.

    I’m saying to Key that if he is one, he needs to assume the clear mantel that has passed to him.

    If he’s not, then fine. But I think he is.

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  41. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    He may be but I really think his “employers” are not quite ready for the truth hence the labour lite business.

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  42. reid (16,441 comments) says:

    I really think his “employers” are not quite ready for the truth hence the labour lite business.

    In that case IMO he should start doing his job which is to lead the country… [i.e. in one direction or another, preferably desirable, pleasant, with pretty things, where even poor people have Ferrari's and there aren't any unions at all because it was discovered they were like the phone cleaners in Hitchhiker's Guide...].

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  43. Robboy (49 comments) says:

    “as a “rich prick”, im just happy when a budget passes that doesnt increase my income tax”

    A ha ha ha ha. In Kiwisaver? Miss the bit about tax on employer contributions?

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  44. ross (1,437 comments) says:

    > Scott, this guy is borrowing $380 million A MONTH!!!!

    Actually, it’s $380 million a week, which is worse than you thought!

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  45. tvb (4,416 comments) says:

    I liked the line under Labour you got to invest in risky finance companies, under National you will have the opportunity to invest in solid Government companies. That will resonate for many. I am worried about those rosy Treasury forecasts. It is borrow and hope.

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  46. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    Do you think we should get the phone cleaners to populate the galaxy reid?

    (Captained by their union leaders of course).

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  47. Grendel (1,002 comments) says:

    yes the evny of the left, to want to have more of your OWN MONEY makes you selfish.

    If so, then fuck yes, i am very selfish, i earn it, i should get to spend it.

    but the left are more selfish, they want something, but won;t put their hand in their own pockets, they just force the rest of us to pay for it even if we don;t want it.

    Robboy, i am self employed, have no employer contributions to my kiwisaver so my tax has not changed one bit.

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  48. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    Has any one of you very financially astute people wondered why we peasantry keep being told that investing in property is very bad for the economy after you have perused the property ownership portfolios of our leaders the MP’s (present and retired, of all ilks I might add)?

    Just asking you understand. :)

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  49. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    I have to add here that the creature I detest the most of all of them namely Trevor ( my beloved local MP :) ) at least only owns one house in Wainui.

    ( Makes me very suspicious of what he has being doing with all the rest of the cash he has screwed out of us over the years of course). :)

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  50. Robboy (49 comments) says:

    “Robboy, i am self employed, have no employer contributions to my kiwisaver so my tax has not changed one bit.”

    Grendel, I’m self-employed too. Unlike you, I’m not a selfish prick who only thinks about myself.

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  51. reid (16,441 comments) says:

    I’m not a selfish prick who only thinks about myself.

    I’d like to be but my fellow conservatives at the club keep telling me I must be more humane. Reid, they say, you can’t possibli do that.

    What balderdash but anyway, moral is, conservatives are too blasted soft.

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  52. Grendel (1,002 comments) says:

    yes you are robboy, you just expect me to pay for what you want. i want you to have your own money, and then if yo uwant to give it all away, then go for it, but if you need it for your family then you should have it. you earned after all.

    unless of course your idea of ‘self employed’ is contractor sitting on his thumb in a govt department.

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  53. david (2,557 comments) says:

    I for one would rather the government steered the economy in certain directions with relatively gentle nudges and mods to its structure rather than belt the hell out of it with a sledgehammer and hope like hell it doesn’t shatter some fundamentals in the process.

    The mistake many make (and there are a lot of gung-ho radical economic illiterates attending here amongst them) is to consider that the Government controls the economic climate and its direction with the certainty of an F1 driver at the wheel.

    In reality it is more like a supertanker being steered by an underpowered tug so all a successful government can do is to push and pull and let the resulting forces take their effect over time, all the while hoping like hell they haven’t overcooked the manouevre and put the vessel on the rocks.

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  54. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    ross (622) Says:
    May 19th, 2011 at 6:00 pm
    Scott – by left wing do you mean fair? Because that’s what I am. Was it fair for John Key to get a $14,000 tax cut last year? And that was on top of the pay rise he got just in time for Xmas.

    Those in need should get the most assistance……………………………………………………………………………..

    I think you’ll find Ross that the Prime Minister donates a fairly large chunk of his salary and concomitant increases to charity, although it is not disclosed what percentage.

    So how about getting some facts right before you start talking through your arse. And as you are not selfish and very humane your nomination for beatification has been forwarded.

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  55. James (1,338 comments) says:

    Robboy: Grendel, I’m self-employed too. Unlike you, I’m not a selfish prick who only thinks about myself.

    Actually Robboy…you are…you are just too pig ignorant to know it.You want to gain values that you think are important just like everyone else does….The difference is you just want to force others to fund them.

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  56. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Key was still on the adrenalin high from the “bear-pit” when on TV later, but at least he knew it unlike that applause junkie Douglas of the 80’s.

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  57. reid (16,441 comments) says:

    In reality it is more like a supertanker being steered by an underpowered tug

    david can’t speak for others but I certainly get that and always did from my early twenties.

    But we’re not heading in a good strategic direction, we’re simply not and there are beneficial things that could be done which aren’t even on the table, cause the Nat’s are scared of Liarbore, who are going to run full on with a scare-campaign on privatisation so the Nats are looking currently as if they are going to back right off.

    Economically, political (i.e. popularity) considerations aside, what needs to happen to our balance sheet, immediately? I think whatever the answer is, asset sales on a significant scale would have to feature as an important potential weapon, and Liarbore are pre-empting this. Thus this election we face an economic question being answered on political grounds, and unless someone does something this is not going to end well, based on current behaviour: i.e. I predict we’ll get a vapid economic package this election and the very people who know what they’re talking about will be frozen out of the conversation.

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  58. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    reid:

    Clark put a whole lot of things in place in this area, which need adjustment. Mostly in terms of expectations from the state.

    The issue is, Key doesn’t want to spend his political capital on it… Politics IS about leadership and leadership is about doing the right thing not the popular thing.

    That’s it, really. All this palaver from Mr Smirk is designed to cover the fact that he’s too scared to do anything to dismantle anything done by Helen Clark. From being “relaxed” about S59 to being happy to let WFF buy incumbency votes, Key’s approach is one of timidity and lack of vision. And it’s not “visionary” to flog off power generators whilst ignoring the absolute mess that occurred when National did it with power retailers; that’s polishing 20-year-old policies and hoping some mug doesn’t check the odometer.

    Even the incoherent nonsense about being an “iPad government” is just a weak echo of Gillard’s “never mind the economic disaster, look at the flashing lights” plea she made only yesterday when launching the NBN in Albany NSW.

    Sadly, Phil Goff is no Tony Abbott, so NZ is probably stuck with at least three more years of this numpty. And then, heaven forfend, three years of worse bumbling by Labour. And over here, it’s not even time for a stiff drink.

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  59. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    Every week there are 380 million reasons why people should not vote for the Nat’s.

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  60. Caleb (479 comments) says:

    Looks like Rex is advocating for Don Brash.

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  61. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    If asset sales are the answer, then the wrong economic question has been asked.

    People borrow at low rates when they have assets, they borrow at higher rates when they don’t.

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  62. Caleb (479 comments) says:

    Nothing visionary at all. Safe…enough for now atleast.

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  63. Caleb (479 comments) says:

    Our best assets are f..king off to aussie and london, our liabilites are hanging out at your local Winz office.
    Story of Nz.

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  64. reid (16,441 comments) says:

    an “iPad government”

    Rex you realise you’ve just compromised the integrity of the soundbite therefore will be featured in tomorrow’s GCSB Daily Briefing?

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  65. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    Almost right Caleb.

    Our liabilities are hanging out at the Waitangi Tribunal and we are paying their legal fees.

    Just their poor stupid cuzzies are hanging out at Winz.

    I blame Norm and David for this unfortunate state of affairs. :)

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  66. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    To all the ACT dreamers out there, if you think Brash and and his lot would would change anything you are deluded.

    What would the plan be BB – cancel all benefits immediately? Cancel pensions? What lets hear some ideas. And sensible ones that would be able to be implemented straightaway

    Brash is not the Messiah, he’s just an old public servant, a clever economist but a fucking hopeless politicain leading a bunch of hopeless politicains .

    . Don’t blame the Prime Minister for whats happening in this country at the moment blame ,9 years when the going was good and people thought it would go on for ever- it didn’t and it never does- and they kept voting for the gay mafia because they were kept given lollies.

    Now when the lolly shop is closed, people throw a tantrum.

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  67. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    W

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  68. reid (16,441 comments) says:

    Everything you say is true Paul, but since it’s what has happened instead of what might happen, it’s not quite so interesting.

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  69. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    Caleb suggests:

    Looks like Rex is advocating for Don Brash.

    Don Brash is ranked slightly higher on my list of perferred PMs than is Caligula. That’s just between Charles Manson and John Christie, to whom he bears an uncanny resemblance.

    There’s a difference between ending middle class welfare and pretty much ending welfare, period. Douglas’s commitment to a guaranteed minimum income is an example of how sensible right wing economics can still give a damn about people who are struggling, while not incentivising welfare dependency. It’s also (or certainly was then) innovative.

    Brash’s visionless 2025 taskforce, with its prescription of cuts in the top tax rate (yawn) and deciding which of the poor are “deserving”, while rejecting increased funding for R&D and compulsory private saving (two of the key advantages enjoyed by Australia, with whom we’re supposed to be catching up), isn’t.

    I’m happy – indeed eager – to listen to anyone with a radical prescription for change, because that’s what we need right now. But that particular doctor only knows one medicine, and clinical trials have proved it’s only going to sicken the patient.

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  70. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    “Brash is not the Messiah, he’s just an old public servant, a clever economist but a fucking hopeless politicain leading a bunch of hopeless politicains . ”

    Thank Christ for that. At least he isn’t just a naughty little boy!
    :)

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  71. Caleb (479 comments) says:

    Cancel all new benefits?

    You think we will grow 4% and create 170k new jobs, Paul?

    Maybe the immigration and refugee policy is about to be loosened.

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  72. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    reid asks:

    you realise you’ve just compromised the integrity of the soundbite therefore will be featured in tomorrow’s GCSB Daily Briefing?

    Nicky Hagar, you’re a twat.

    (Well it’s going to end up in his hands eventually. It is the GCSB we’re talking about, after all).

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  73. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Rex

    Your second paragraph is spot on and I believe National will target this but not this term.

    Prior to the 2008 election one of the two biggest bitches on here (KB, that is ,centre of the universe and all things sensible) apart from labour in general ,were welfare and the growth of government.

    So, excuse me , but it appears the Government is tackling one of the biggies, you can’t open up too many fronts, because unfortunately we have this silly little three year term in New Zealand, where you get into power, have about 18 months to work and then you have to start thinking about the next election.

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  74. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    There were serious design flaws to the Cullen Fund and Kiwi Saver.

    We need a dedicated annual contribution to the Fund and Kiwi Saver.

    2% from employees and employers into both – ends any need for a start-up and annual tax credits.

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  75. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    Johnboy suggests:

    Our liabilities are hanging out at the Waitangi Tribunal and we are paying their legal fees.

    Just their poor stupid cuzzies are hanging out at Winz.

    Looking at the excellent site DPF has highlighted in another post, Where’s My Taxes, I see we’re (or more correctly you’re) all paying $79.45 a head for “historical Treaty Settlements”. That’s compared to $41.19 for Legal Aid. Yet which one did Simon “Can’t get enough” Power bravely decide to tackle, and which has Mr Smirk and Co cowardly left alone?

    Goof’s complete inability to summon up a decent performance in the year’s most crucial debate has clearly left Mr Smirk thinking he’s the big swinging dick (as his Wall St friends like to say) in Parliament. He’s almost right – it’s just that he’s not swinging.

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  76. orewa1 (410 comments) says:

    Outstanding oratory – very powerful. Key went up several notches in my estimation.

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  77. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Obviously he wants to remain PM – this is a good thing only depending on what he does in office.

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  78. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    Pauleastbay suggests:

    the Government is tackling one of the biggies, you can’t open up too many fronts, because unfortunately we have this silly little three year term in New Zealand, where you get into power, have about 18 months to work and then you have to start thinking about the next election.

    But part of the legend being peddled about Mr Smirk is that he’s only in it for the good of the nation, that he doesn’t need the money (that part is certainly true) and so on. That would seem to be borne out by the fact that, unlike Clark, Goff and even Brash he hasn’t hung round politics like a wraith, waiting for someone to fall (or in Don’s case, giving them a gentle push with a stiletto) so he can get to play leader.

    In short, of any PM in recent history, he has the least to loose – if he is as disinterested in the BMWs, the helicopter rides and the adulation as he claims to be. But of course he’s not. Even if you can afford you own BMW (and helicopter, for that matter), they don’t come with the added proximity to power. You can see it in his face in the clips above… like a schoolgirl at a Bieber concert, he doesn’t want it to end.

    So NZ isn’t going t get what it needs; it’s going to get what Mr Smirk needs, to keep feeding his ego and keep enough people who don’t know any better voting for him.

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  79. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Jesus Rex, what has The Prime Minister ever done to you? I know he has never been in the police ,so do tell.

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  80. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    I can see you are not a Hindu like me then Rex. Sacred cows really need a bit of slaughtering over here.

    Somehow smile and wave doesn’t strike me as having the balls to wield the knife.

    What a surprise. :)

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  81. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    Nothing, Pauleastbay. Just like he’s done with the power handed to him. The power that could put an end to so much bullshit and make some real changes to the country I love. He’s treated it like “gap year” in his business career… nothing to get too serious about, bit of a laugh, see if you can’t help out a few of your mates, then get back to what really matters.

    As Johnboy says, there’s a field of scared cows in need of slaughtering, and he doesn’t have the balls to wield the knife. Succinctly and brilliantly put, Johnboy.

    See I’m one of those quaint throwbacks who sees political office as an honour and a calling, not a game of Monopoly, and nothing pisses me off more than to see someone so blasé about the future of the country that he’s quite happy for it to essentially go on as it has simply so he can retain the baubles till he gets bored with them.

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  82. Johnboy (16,484 comments) says:

    “baubles” :)

    Well said Rex.

    Tell me how did you ever get tied up with Winnie then? :) :)

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  83. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Pauleastbay said…
    What would the plan be BB – cancel all benefits immediately? Cancel pensions? What lets hear some ideas. And sensible ones that would be able to be implemented straightaway.

    Easy Paul. Just take your pick from the list below:

    Spending, Saving and the ‘Gone By Lunchtime’ List (updated)

    I’m sure that you can find something in there to start with.

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  84. The Silent Majority (88 comments) says:

    This budget is not going to stop my teenagers leaving NZ in 10 years time, for good. I am deeply disappointed.

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  85. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    I always knew Winnie had a bauble fetish, Johnboy. But he had some basic principles that would have translated into solid policies and people around him at the time who’d have done the heavy lifting – and done it better than any of the dropkicks on either side of the House.

    He’d have been okay as PM (far better than he was as Treasurer) because he delegated and he trusted (too much, sadly, hence dumping the whole lot in the lap of one M Lhaws to fritter away). His charisma would have sold the changes we were making and (hopefully) kept us in office long enough to make them. If it hadn’t at least we’d be defeated known we’d tried to do the right thing, not like this lot.

    Winston would have been the shiny thing that kept people entertained while we did the hard work… in other words, Winston was My Bauble (I think I’ve just got the title of my autobiography).

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  86. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Jesus Rex…………….who sees political office as an honour and a calling…………..

    But you hitched your self to the vainest poltitician New Zealand has had since Walter Nash and you have the gall to suggest that John key is not taking his office seriously. The same party that also had that humble little creature Michael Laws as an MP.
    and
    Tuku Morgan ,well what can you say and
    John Delamere, well what can you say.

    Collectively the biggest bunch of fuck ups probably ever elected ( not from a list ) in New Zealand history.

    John Key doen’t need “baubles” if he wants a helicopter ride he can buy one FFS.

    It would be much better if the New Zealand Prime Minister was career hack having spent 30 years ( or 27 ) on his knees before rising to high office. Much better someone who has spent thier entire adult life leeching off the tax payer with no idea how the real world works.

    Career politicians rank just above trade unionists in my view, both take from , (my new favourite term ) , the “average bloke”
    To aspire to to be a professional politician is incredibly sad

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  87. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Winston was My Bauble ………..

    This is getting creepy. Night

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  88. big bruv (13,884 comments) says:

    Pauleastbay

    Have you been drinking Adolf’s koolaide?

    You are beginning to sound like a Neville Key happy clapper.

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  89. reid (16,441 comments) says:

    When I said above:

    The fundamental issue in politics which defines left and right in this country is the economy. Lefties are for strong unions and state ownership and conservatives are for the opposite. Simple as that.

    We float between the two as a country, first dragged one way then the other.

    what I meant was we are torn betwixt a Keynesian view and a Hayeckian view. Most of the world now, has a Hayeckian view and the debate there is between which aspects shall we apply? Here, it’s how much less commie could we become without losing our innate humanity.

    I hope the IMF understands this and is accordingly compassionate, when the axe falls. Perhaps they’ll take Wussell and the others and study them, to make sure this never ever happens again. I certainly hope so, when it all comes crashing down.

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  90. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    BB said…
    Have you been drinking Adolf’s koolaide?

    I think the reason is Pauleastbay loves the following funky commercial.

    Kool Aid Koolers

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  91. Mary Rose (393 comments) says:

    Reid>and there aren’t any unions at all because it was discovered they were like the phone cleaners in Hitchhiker’s Guide…].

    Um, long time since I read it. But not sure it’s the analogy you intended.
    Didn’t the people who stayed on the home planet then die from an epidemic caught from a dirty phone? ;-)

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  92. Falafulu Fisi (2,179 comments) says:

    Jaba said…
    I have always thought that Jo was a hottie

    Now, when Jo reads this thread, she will know that you have a crush on her.

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  93. reid (16,441 comments) says:

    Didn’t the people who stayed on the home planet then die from an epidemic caught from a dirty phone?

    That’s what happens Mary when you mix politics with reality. Thank you for picking up my error. Of course what I suggested was quite impossible, upon reflection. I withdraw and apologise, lots and lots.

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  94. ross (1,437 comments) says:

    > I think you’ll find Ross that the Prime Minister donates a fairly large chunk of his salary and concomitant increases to charity…

    Except you don’t know that…besides, you’ve missed my point entirely. John Key gave himself a tax cut of $14,000 last year. That was on top of the pay rise he got just in time for Xmas. He’s one of the highest paid politicians in the world (conditions apply). He would be entitled to superannuation were he of an age to qualify. Where is the sense in that? Key doesn’t need a pay rise or a tax cut…meanwhile workers’ real incomes have fallen under this government. Is the PM concerned? I doubt it.

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  95. ross (1,437 comments) says:

    There’s an interesting article in today’s Otago Daily Times saying that workers can expect smaller wage increases following an increase in employers’ contribution to KiwiSaver. That’s weird – John Key told the country yesterday that workers could expect wage increases of 4% for each of the next 4 years. Looks like he’s been telling lies again…given that he’s lied about not increasing GST and not touching KiwiSaver, maybe he thinks that telling more porkies is OK as long as he continues to smile and make silly jokes.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/161271/smaller-wage-increases-likely-result

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  96. ross (1,437 comments) says:

    And let’s not forget that in the last 12 months to March, wages rose by 1.9%.

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  97. tom hunter (4,809 comments) says:

    I don’t know about anybody else but my view of this thread on Firefox occasionally has a third video inserting itself between the second Key video and DPF’s last words.

    The effect is to see:
    – Key
    – Key
    – Shapeshifting Octopus, amazing camoflage
    – “No words are needed”

    I can’t help but think that there’s a “fun” coder embedded somewhere here.

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  98. Scott (1,792 comments) says:

    Ross — you are a left-winger. Always banging on about tax cuts for the rich. I agree with a tax cut for the upper income earners. Taxes need to be lower. I want more tax cuts and less government. I want lower GST, less income tax and the government to do less.

    You want more taxes and more government. So you should vote for the other guys. You are basically a leftist who wants the government to redistribute income because that is “fair”. So you will never agree with John Key. Because he wants less government and more prosperity and lower taxes.

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  99. Scott (1,792 comments) says:

    I am leaving this thread because in my view people have got a little unhinged. I still don’t know what Berend wants — his only view is that you cannot trust John Key. I still don’t know whether he is attacking him from the right or the left. And no idea what Rex is on about.

    I think John Key is doing a great job on the budget. Yes he doesn’t go far enough. But no — it is all he can do after nine years of a left-wing government and an electorate now accustomed to government handouts on a lavish scale.

    We need to realise how left-wing our country is. Our media for example are very left-wing. I just watched a Q + A interview from last Easter. Who were the representative panellists? The panellists that are supposed to represent mainstream New Zealand? Well one of them was Matt McCartan. The most left-wing guy in the country with the possible exception of Keith Lock. The other panellist was Jon Johansson — another left-wing guy, just an academic left-winger as opposed to a trade union/Communist left-winger. So that was two of the three panellists. The only other panellist was Glynn Carpenter from the vision network, an evangelical Christian. So that is what the media does — heavily biased in favour of the left-wing.

    And on economics they are the same. Most of the commentators in the newspaper are left-wingers. They want the government to spend more, they want higher taxes and they want more income redistribution. That is the climate that John Key is up against.

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  100. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    Some comments.

    Countries with high public debt and endemic budget deficits does not a GFC make. Key may think he can con the public and his minions who will applaud his put downs of those who tell the truth.

    There is a Euro zone stability crisis, there is a problem with the US public debt and endemic budget defcit (excepting the Clinton years) for near on 30 years now. The status of the US dollar reserve system is being shaken down by that and the rise of China as a buyer of global debt.

    But the global financial crisis as a banking crisis is over for now, though whether the reforms to prevent this recurring are sufficient is in dispute.

    Of course the GFC leaves a lot of ratings agencies with egg on their faces. They restore their credibility by scaring smaller weaker nations into compliance – it’s an easy way of restoring their reputation as people who count, while they fecklessly appease the more powerful financial instituions that actually count (because they make bigger governments than ours blink whenever financial sector reform is proposed).

    Key’s budget speech/speak was unintentionally hilarious, the claim that todays lower interest costs was a result of government policy success (the interest rates are even lower in the UK and the USA because they are in an even worse state than we are) – lack of success in restoring growth to the economy after the GFC is not an achievement … . Australia has higher interest rates than us because they have economic growth, rather than economic decline.

    The flip side was his other claim that government policy was enabling the growth forecasts of Treasury, the forecasts are based on the Christchurch rebuild with the $10B allocated for this – investment they would have preferred not to make, is not of their own choosing, if a natural disaster is the only success of their economic policy in delivering growth … there is no achievement at all.

    Any government can get growth eventually by simply waiting for a recession to end, this one had to be saved by an earthquake for it to be “forecast” to occur in a year following 3 years of failure.

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  101. Manolo (13,746 comments) says:

    Scott, I agree with you on the unashamed left-wing bias shown by the media. It does require, however, a direct and frontal reaction. Who owns TVNZ? Why isn’t the government cleaning up the stables of all these left-wingers? Why the softly approach? Why isn’t the minister putting the heat on the board to get its act together?

    These people have become entrenched in the system as a result of policies of inaction and tolerance from past administrations. Cowardice will not take the National Party anywhere. It’s time to put an end to it.

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  102. Scott (1,792 comments) says:

    Manolo — I would like to see an end to left-wing bias as well. However the Labour Party, the trade unions and the media generally have the same worldview. They associate together and so they honestly believe that this is the way that reasonable people think. So of course we should have more government. Of course taxes are too low. Of course the government should do more to redistribute income. Of course a centre-right government is full of crazy right-wingers who want to hurt the poor by cutting benefits because they have no compassion and are heartless.

    You just need to watch one episode of Campbell Live to get the left-wing view shared by the media and the liberal elite that are present in most government departments, in the universities etc. When John Campbell does attacked left-wingers, as he did some years ago with Helen Clark, he attacks them from the left. So he has a left-wing view to the left of Helen Clark.

    Therefore John Key has to show restraint in making change. I actually thought his budget speech showed that he was more than just a nice guy and that he does have some fire in his belly. So I was pleased with the budget.

    With regard to the media I would like to seem more media outlets. The rise of bloggers like DPF has been a welcome change to the general left-wing economic analysis we still get from the mainstream media. However I have often longed for a New Zealand version of Fox News to promote alternative ideas to the mainstream media.

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  103. Manolo (13,746 comments) says:

    John Campbell is an employee of TV3, a private organisation, with a perfect right to voice his left-wing opinion (I don’t watch him since his tone of voice grates my ears). We agree on that count.

    The situation is completely different when comes to the state-owned TVNZ and Radio NZ. Why does this government tolerate the sickening bias? I insist: the issue needs to be confronted, not swept under the carpet, which is exactly what the left-wing media and commentators want.

    It requires political courage to take on an entrenched left-wing, state-sponsored, media. Unfortunately, Key’s government does not have an ounce of it.

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  104. Richard Hurst (855 comments) says:

    Lab: Big Borrow, big tax big spend

    Nat: Borrow less tax less spend less

    Act: Stop spending.

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