Lies from the Klingon

August 2nd, 2011 at 9:15 am by David Farrar

Winston told many lies at the weekend, but we will focus on just two of them. The first is that he is not a Klingon, and Whale has proof to the other.

Before we move onto the next lie, enjoy the fact that NZ First has selected Andrew Williams as their candidate for North Shore. They deserve each other.

What I want to focus on is this report from Stuff:

The were wrong by 100 per cent in 2002 and 500 per cent in 2005 and again in 2008, Peters said.

This has been widely reported. Once upon a time when a politician made a claim, someone would fact check it. So I’ve done it in this case. I’ve compared NZ First’s actual election results with the average of the polls for the five MMP elections. They are

  • 1996 – 13.4% result v 15.0% poll average
  • 1999 – 4.3% result v 4.0% poll average
  • 2002 – 10.4% result v 9.1% poll average
  • 2005 – 5.7% result v 6.0% poll average
  • 2008 – 4.1% result v 3.4% poll average

What is really interesting is if you average out the five elections. NZ First on average got 7.6% and the average poll rating immediately prior to the elections was 7.5%.

Polls can be wrong and have been wrong. But not as wrong as Winston’s claims.

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54 Responses to “Lies from the Klingon”

  1. freedom101 (504 comments) says:

    Winston will become a source of derision in this campaign. The best thing for him and the country would be a quiet retirement but I suspect that we will have another four months of pure vaudeville. Let’s enjoy it while it lasts because this will certainly be Winston’s last election.

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  2. david (2,557 comments) says:

    Remember DPF, if you have to explain, you have already lost the argument (or at least the war of the sound-bites)

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  3. ben (2,380 comments) says:

    What does 500% wrong even mean? Didn’t someone in the newsroom stop for just a second to ask that question before repeating?

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  4. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I think Winston’s true believers will keep him in business for a while longer yet.

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  5. gravedodger (1,566 comments) says:

    The duplicitous pin stripe clad one who has always considered what he says is fact, wont let the actual truth change anything and the shallow idiot MSM will just repeat his manipulative statements.

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  6. Griff (7,715 comments) says:

    If you were of the left and had to select a party
    Even whiinne seems better than the collection of twats that make up Labore and the Greens

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  7. hj (7,021 comments) says:

    Marian Hobbs

    22 September, 2000
    Property Council of NZ, National Conference 2000, Tauranga

    First, I would like to thank the Council for the invitation to attend today.

    Secondly I would like to acknowledge the importance of the sector and the size of the interests that the Council represents;

    20 corporate members
    $14 billion of assets, and
    Contributes significantly, through rates to the functions of Local Government.
    http://www.beehive.govt.nz/speech/property+council+nz+national+conference+2000+tauranga

    Immigration and tax breaks for investment in residential property are being cited as the underlying causes of steep increases in the cost of housing over the past decade.

    New Zealand now boasts one of the highest rates of home unaffordability in the world as a result of prices rising far faster than incomes, and the government’s Savings Working Group blames that squarely on the policies of successive governments.

    Although “the favourable tax treatment of property investment” accounted for about 50% of house price increases between 2001 and 2007, the working group said, there was also strong evidence that rapid swings in immigration brought about price-rise “shocks”.

    There was a sharp spike in immigration in 2001, 2002 and 2003 and, said working group committee member Dr Andrew Coleman, it appeared that property prices did not fall anywhere near as greatly when immigration fell again.

    The report added that there was little evidence that immigration boosted local incomes. In fact, the need to build roads and schools meant that net migration contributed to the national deficit.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/4622459/Government-policies-blamed-for-house-prices

    The Rent Trap
    For the housing market’s winners, the gains have been spectacular.
    Infometrics director Gareth Morgan calculates that between 1989 and 2005, the residential property market has provided investors – and owners – with a tax-free 319% gain.
    http://www.catalyst2.co.nz/blog/news/the-rent-trap/

    Fast population growth over the past decade has strained infrastructure, boosted house prices and reduced the quality of life in the Auckland region.
    http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/0705/RMA__Oram_Paper_May_2007.pdf

    DPF says: Down with Winston

    [DPF: Off topic 10 demerits]

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  8. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    Winston has long passed his ‘used by’ date and any surprise that he has resorted to lies is only second to the surprise that the dinosaur media haven’t yet found their way past the bullshit to actually report the truth!

    But the biggest laugh of all is that the resident clown of Campbells Bay is standing for NZF. On the one hand a drunk who cannot find his way to the toilet and on the other a yesterday’s man who is still in debt to the NZ taxpayer.

    What a gruesome twosome – certainly deserving of each other.

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  9. Scott Chris (6,139 comments) says:

    Ha, that reminds me of the famous joke:

    What do the Starship Enterprise and a piece of loo paper have in common?

    They both circle Uranus, wiping out Klingons.

    Could it be said of Winston, as he leaves the political arena in November, that he will have looked a little ‘flushed’.

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  10. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    If Winston’s such a yesterday’s man , why write about him? Is it because Mr ”there is nothing we can do” has ”nothing much to say” about anything of any consequence. Really , truly how often has Key said ”there is nothing we can do?” What do you call this ? Committed incompetence? The people voted him in as leader and expect him to be able to do something in any given circumstance..I cannot recall any other NZ PM constantly saying ”there is nothing I can do.” It shows a lack of spine and a lack of leadership.
    At least TV 3 are now getting people on who question this. I am no fan of Helen Clark but I can’t imagine she ever said there was nothing she could do.

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  11. hj (7,021 comments) says:

    22 Jul 2011

    Rt Hon Winston Peters
    Speech
    What on earth is happening here?

    WARKWORTH PUBLIC MEETING

    Some days it is hard to believe that we are living in New Zealand in the 21st century.

    At times like this it seems more like some topsy turvy land with everyone in denial about what is actually going on.

    The country is in the grip of a giant “con” trick with severe reality covered by a smokescreen of soothing spin.

    All over the country people are bewildered because what is actually happening is part of a separate reality – like the one that used to be produced when desert dwelling central Americans distilled cactus juice.

    Let me explain further.

    This week there was a fuss over the amount of money being paid to the people who oversee the Canterbury Earthquake Recovery Authority.

    For some strange reason the former National prime minister Jenny Shipley was selected as one of the people needed for this responsible job.

    And she is getting a thousand dollars a dayto bring her particular expertise – whatever that may be – to the people of Christchurch.

    Surely they have suffered enough without having to watch Jenny Shipley feeding from the public trough, at the rate of a thousand dollars a day.

    Christchurch needs compassion and a relentless commitment from central and local government to rebuild the city and the lives and hopes of its people.

    Those people are the priority and they do not need the distraction of an overpaid sideshow coming to town.

    Some people might actually say that Mrs Shipley should be paid to keep out of the earthquake zone area because it is yet another area in which she has absolutely no experience or expertise.

    Her main focus these days is acting as an agent for companies owned by the communist state of China.

    Surely this must be one of the greatest ironies in the history of New Zealand politics.

    A former conservative leader working for a communist government.

    And what’s more this conservative government in NZ is happy about the situation!

    It makes you wonder what else is afoot.

    Everything has suddenly gone quiet about state asset sales and the sale of farmland to foreign buyers.

    The asset sales are on hold with the mirage of a mixed market approach but glimpses of what’s happening show that power stations owned by the people of New Zealand will end up in foreign hands.

    http://www.nzfirst.org.nz/press-releases/display.php?t=1&i=2967

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  12. emmess (1,428 comments) says:

    Her main focus these days is acting as an agent for companies owned by the communist state of China.

    Everything has suddenly gone quiet about state asset sales and the sale of farmland to foreign buyers.

    Duuhhhh, can anyone see the problem here?
    State ownership is the basis of communist economics

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  13. davidp (3,581 comments) says:

    hj>And she is getting a thousand dollars a dayto bring her particular expertise – whatever that may be – to the people of Christchurch.

    My company charges $1500 a day for mid-level IT staff. Is Peters saying we should pay Shipley more?

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  14. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    @davidp – careful, the envy from the lefties will soon surface! :)

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  15. nasska (11,510 comments) says:

    Elaycee

    What strange chemicals have been added to the water up your way? Winston Peters, Andrew Williams, John Banks & Penny Bright….seems to me you could have a major conspiracy on your hands in the city of the sails.

    Hot Tip: Until you get the lab reports back stick to hard liquor & bottled water.

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  16. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    @nasska: – Yup. Winston Peters, Andrew Williams, John Banks & Penny Bright – they are crosses I have to bear.

    They’re not exactly in contention for the Personality of the Year Award, are they? How anyone could possibly want Williams in their party defies logic – unless you just wanted someone around to carry the drinks! But maybe Andrew Williams paid WJP money to be a candidate – you know – the same ‘candidacy for sale’ thing that ACT has done in the past. Not a good look – for sure.

    Thanks for the hot tip to keep my liquid intake as pure as possible… Sounds good. :)

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  17. Inventory2 (10,340 comments) says:

    Winston seems to have discovered Twitter; take your pick between http://twitter.com/#!/winstonpetersnz and http://twitter.com/#!/WinstonRPeters – not quite sure which one is which!

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  18. nonpartisan () says:

    Peters really needs to employ a media consultant, because whatever charisma he has left completely evaporates every time he speaks to the media. He consistently comes across as an old grumpy-assed “get off my lawn” type. Has he always been like this, or has he become more unpleasant with age? As for his contention that doing deals before elections gives democracy a bad name, at least voters still know what they are voting for. Peters’ post-election backroom deals of the past is what gives democracy a bad name.

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  19. s.russell (1,642 comments) says:

    I once asked a sub-editor about publishing a palpably false statement from a politician. The reply was “Who cares, this is a politician, they’re all liars.”

    I found that statement appalling. But I think that this attitude is widespread, and especially in the case of Peters readers are highly unlikely to accept anything he says at face value anyway.

    Essentially the default assumption is that whatever a politician says is a pile of rubbish, so investigating and checking whether it is or is not is not necessary, because no-one treats such statements as a source of facts. It would be like checking whether the jokes told by a comedian were based on facts.

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  20. Chuck Bird (4,883 comments) says:

    I note NZF got 4.3% in 1999. How hard did labour contest Tauranga?

    [DPF: Hard. And a Labour MP at the time told me just afterwards they would have puled back if they had realised Katherine O'Regan would get so close to Winston]

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  21. s.russell (1,642 comments) says:

    In the interests of accuracy, we must ask what exactly Peters is claiming.

    The figures which DPF cites are implied to be the final polling average before the election. But Peters comparison is probably not intended to be that, it would make more sense if he is comparing polls from four or six months out with the election result.

    So how does that comparison stack up? His claim might be closer to being accurate there. From memory NZF has often polled very poorly ni inter-election periods, and only picked up support close to polling day.

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  22. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Where are Key’s advisers and how much are they being paid? Any decent adviser would have pulled him up on his shrugging his shoulders and saying “There is nothing I can do line” the first time he said it.. To my knowledge , he has said this about six times. It seems to be his automatic default position..And as for his speech , it is as poor as ever. It is actually a disgrace. His speech is only marginally better than Brash’s which is of course appalling. All that money and no sense of style and no advisers worth their salaries.

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  23. Mick Mac (1,091 comments) says:

    Sorry Joanna
    I mistook you for the Ozzie Joanna Nova the other day.
    Now about this illegality that John Key is involved with that you alluded to.
    Care to put facts before innuendo?

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  24. hj (7,021 comments) says:

    davidp (1,958) Says:
    August 2nd, 2011 at 10:08 am

    hj>And she is getting a thousand dollars a dayto bring her particular expertise – whatever that may be – to the people of Christchurch.

    My company charges $1500 a day for mid-level IT staff. Is Peters saying we should pay Shipley more?
    ….
    I think Peters is suggesting Shipley brings nothing but her bank account number (unless it’s her connections to Chinese land purchasers)

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  25. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Good Post Hj
    Mick Mac I am just working on the doco now which I’ll be sending on to quite a number of people in the next few days. thanks for asking.

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  26. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Mick Mac..I meant to say , we are also considering going to the Aussie media because we feel we make get more of a hearing there.

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  27. Chthoniid (2,047 comments) says:

    Surely the comment on the polls is rhetoric for the faithful? You can hardly do a major conference and tell the members that realistically, they’re almost certain to lose this election campaign as well.

    As for having Andrew Williams as a candidate- words fail me…wow

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  28. calendar girl (1,233 comments) says:

    joana@9.49: “I am no fan of Helen Clark but …”. That rings a little hollow given how you attack the Opposition Leader who defeated her in the 2008 election.

    @12.12: By my count, you make at least four vehement criticisms of Key in one short, almost incoherent paragraph. Well done.

    But I’m interested in your view as to what’s actually wrong with Key saying “There is nothing I (or we) can do …” in situations where such a statement is a realistic response – whether in factual, or in legal, or in constitutional terms.

    You had said earlier, apparently in all seriousness, that “The people voted him in as leader and expect him to be able to do something in any given circumstance”. But you really can’t believe that Key, or any other PM, should be able to simply snap his fingers and “fix” anything that he would like to change. And do it his way, regardless of cost and regardless of the rule of law or of due constitutional process.

    That sounds a little too close to a dictatorship for comfort in a democracy.

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  29. lofty (1,310 comments) says:

    Ah calendar girl…a benevolent dictatorship may just be what this country needs to pull it up and out of the swamp.
    If I may put myself forward..ahem ;-)

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  30. calendar girl (1,233 comments) says:

    My last comment was somewhat off-topic. Apologies. I plead guilty to being lead astray by joana’s posts quoted.

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  31. calendar girl (1,233 comments) says:

    An excellent first nomination, lofty!

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  32. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    thanks for the congrats Calendar girl..No honestly , truly I was never a fan of Aunty Helens.. I am not the only one who has noticed John Key’s habit of shrugging his shoulders , my hands are tied , what can I do stance..I think this is the unfortunate part. It seems to have become a habit. This is where I criticise his advisers. They should have picked up on how poorly this comes across especially on television. These phrases , this body language , this apparent hopelessness are not the hallmarks of a leader. A true leader does not behave in this way. People have expectations of leaders whether they are realistic or not is another matter..a leader has to at least try to met those expectations , otherwise he loses his crowd.
    I may have been giving Key a bit of a bash on here but I have nothing against him personally..well possibly with the exception of his speech . I am almost at the point of offering to pay for his elocution lessons myself.

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  33. hj (7,021 comments) says:

    [DPF: Off topic 10 demerits]
    ….
    Can I redeem them at Countdown?
    =====================
    The point I’m making is that a powerful lobby group is opposed to the idea of restricting immigration and or restricting land sales to foreigners. If what the Savings Working Group maintain is true it contradicts the policies of National Labour and the Greens. This means that Winston can be singled out for a thumping. Even if he does deserve a thumping at times NZ First has a point here.

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  34. hj (7,021 comments) says:

    davidp (1,960) Says:
    August 2nd, 2011 at 10:08 am

    hj>And she is getting a thousand dollars a dayto bring her particular expertise – whatever that may be – to the people of Christchurch.

    My company charges $1500 a day for mid-level IT staff. Is Peters saying we should pay Shipley more?
    Elaycee (824) Says:
    August 2nd, 2011 at 10:10 am

    @davidp – careful, the envy from the lefties will soon surface! :)
    ===================================

    City of Christchurch motto:
    A City Founded in Faith. Strong in Hope For the Future
    New Motto:
    In High Fees We Trust

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  35. Elaycee (4,392 comments) says:

    And as I said…… ‘the envy from the lefties will soon surface! ‘

    It only took a few hours. [sigh]

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  36. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    hj

    The only relevant thing about the fees was the special exemption required to pay these folks more than the maximum permitted by (SSC?) rules for these sorts of appointments. So this job must require much greater expertise than the hundreds of other board and committee appointments that are filled at the standard rates.

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  37. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    As a Trekkie, I am outraged by the comparison of Winston Peters to a Klingon. Winston is far worse.

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  38. RandySavage (222 comments) says:

    Winston is a man of principal and integrity, both qualities you keyboard jockeys know little of.

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  39. hj (7,021 comments) says:

    Alice Poon writing about HK expresses similar feelings to what many older New Zealanders have for the New Zealand:

    “The relationship between Hong Kong and me has been one of sentimental nature. I was born and grew up in the city. My attachment to the place has always been heartfelt. That fact alone is like an umbilical cord that ties us at birth, which, though physically cut moments later, will forever connect us emotionally in a mother-child bond. As a grown-up child, I spent many memorable years in the nurturing care of my imaginary parent in the prime days of her life. But her nightmare began thirteen years ago when she was forced to divorce her foreign partner. I have been watching painfully and helplessly her self-destructive behavior and her path to ruin ever since she reunited with her abusive and patriarchal first husband.

    Initially she totally succumbed to her property addiction and decadent way of living given to financial gambling and consumerism. She now has lost all sense of orientation and has been leading a spiritless and aimless life, ducking her head behind a wall of self-denial. Her head, which is supposed to govern and guide her, is inhabited by a body of grey matter that is hubristic, ignorant and incompetent and which is controlled by a frontal lobe of property interests. Since she is powerless to change her brain, there is little else she can do to change her fate, although her heart is still faithfully guarded by a few righteous young fighters trying desperately to save her soul.”
    http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2990&Itemid=158

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  40. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    RandySavage said “Winston is a man of principal”

    You can’t spell. Do you work for NZ First ?

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  41. gravedodger (1,566 comments) says:

    @ Rodders 06 15 we don’t know who that teacher was.

    @ Randy Savage 06 11 You have comedy writing talent there who is your agent.

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  42. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Winston still has his fans, even on Kiwiblog. Must be increasing numbers of pensioners using the net these days.

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  43. Alan Wilkinson (1,878 comments) says:

    Peters is the political equivalent of a Nigerian scammer and exploits the same gullible constituency.

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  44. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    NZFirst almost got back in last time even after a five or six month ugly attack which was almost unheard of in NZ media before. I am sure some people voted NZFirst just because they were so appalled by the behaviour of Hide and his backers. Where is hideous Hide now? Changing nappies? Doing the night run? No , he is back in his cot , stamping his little foot ,wailing about why someone took his rattle. Sadly , he is really revealing his character now more than ever.
    When are we going to hear about the plum job? He certainly fancies himself in the local govt area..anyone willing to hazard a guess?

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  45. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    yes last I heard MnM , Senior Net was booming.

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  46. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    NZ First and ACT do have similar (irrelevant) levels of support.

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  47. RF (1,398 comments) says:

    Winston Peters. Yesterdays man. This time round no one will believe the crap that spills from his mouth. First the elderly now the students are targets of his vote grabbing bribes.

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  48. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Taxpayers! Harmonize… Ready … All together now: Give back our $154,000

    @Alan – you’re being a bit unfair on those hard working Nigerian scanners!

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  49. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    Grrr edit: scammers!

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  50. Graeme Edgeler (3,289 comments) says:

    This has been widely reported. Once upon a time when a politician made a claim, someone would fact check it. So I’ve done it in this case.

    I think this needs fact-checking.

    I think you’re pining for a time which has never existed in New Zealand political journalism. That’s not to say no politician has ever been fact-checked, but I really don’t believe there was a time when a politician made a claim that it would be fact checked.

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  51. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    I agree with Randy – Winston can be described as a man of ‘principle and integrity’.

    However, let’s explore and challenge the usage of the terms:

    a) Principle – refers to his dedication to the principle of getting his face into and keeping it, in the tax-payer trough as often as possible in order to keep him in the lifestyle to which he has become accustomed.

    b) Integrity – indicates the application of a consistently applied philosphical and moral schema – in this case – dedicated to one consistent and immutable characteristic – to warp any given facts to exclude anything that might threaten his own arrogant agenda (see ‘a’ above).

    So Randy’s was not inaccurate, he merely was inviting us to qualify the assertion.

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  52. hj (7,021 comments) says:

    Winston is/was/would be a loose cannon among the political establishment. Labour, National and the Greens don’t like that. The Greens claim to be pro environment but are castrated when it comes to sacrificing lifestyle to population growth. Likewise Labour and National are in bed with the realestate industry. Remember when no one talked about peak oil… welll:

    http://dicksmithpopulation.com/
    In a way the Greens are the worst thing that ever happened to the environmental movement.

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  53. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    KEY ..
    kEY promised to repeal the anti smacking law before the last election..Did he repeal it No It was only an election bribe.

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  54. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Hj
    The two major parties both serve their foreign masters.

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