The secret Key tried to bury
January 26th, 2012 at 3:52 pm by David Farrar
Yes the awful secret was that John Key said he doesn’t like nasty politics, and thinks it doesn’t work for Labour.
Related posts:
- Secret Recordings
- Final secret tape due today or tomorrow
- Who voted against secret strike ballots?
- Len’s $500,000 secret trust
January 26th, 2012 at 3:56 pm
People get the media they deserve. Maybe if we all say we’re REALLY sorry for whatever we’ve done we’ll get a less shit media.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 3:58 pm
Key’s idea of nasty is when his lies are exposed. Instead of whinging at the media or Labour or whoever, he could simply tell the truth.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:04 pm
“…. he could simply tell the truth.”
From the muppet who spends his life telling porkies on KB.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Hypocrite: TICK.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:08 pm
ross is actually an undercover plant by Red Baiter. His mission is to litter blogs with such completely transparent lies and inept allegations against nominally right wing politicians that even centre-left readers find him so repellent that they switch their votes to ACT.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Actually ross has been “released into the community”.
Its a sad situation really.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:15 pm
Yes the awful secret was that John Key said he doesn’t like nasty politics, and thinks it doesn’t work for Labour.
Not surprised Key didn’t want that to get out, if Labour had found that out they would have changed to nice for the rest of the campaign and would have romped in.
Ahhh, maybe not, ross knows now and he’s still doing nasty. Maybe word hasn’t filtered down from Trev yet.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:18 pm
Maybe hes just really a bloody idiot.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:20 pm
So… what was the point of wasting police resources and court time over this?
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:21 pm
Its called a violation of pravcy actually Weihana. If you’re going to comment on somethign at least do a smidge of background reading.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:25 pm
Talking of JK I see Peter Sharples is all pissed off cause JK didnt mention Maori or TOW in his first speech of the year.
WELL that just about says it all as to whats wrong with NZ. FFS Peter. Why do we always have to have Maori and the TOW rammed down our F….. throats ever 5 minutes.
For the past FOUR decades all we have ever heard is Maori and TOW.
Guess what Peter. Some of us are sick to death of hearing about Maori and TOW
Especially given the BILLIONS of our hard earnt taxes that have been pissed up against the wall for Maori and TOW
If I never hear Maori or TOW again itll be too soon
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:37 pm
Murray,
There are many violations going on all the time Murray. The point is if this is trivial then why waste resources on something that is trivial? Why not have the Police spend their time investigating murders and rapes rather than a political scandal? Of all the things to spend police time on it would seem protecting John Key’s “privacy” (while he sits in front of news cameras) is perhaps the most least important thing they could have been doing.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
Murray,
BTW, hope you didn’t listen to the leaked tape.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
So what we know now is that John Key acted on principle, protecting everyone’s rights to hold a private conversation. With any luck, he has scared off any News of the World tactics being used in NZ by our media muppets.
And the Left criticise him for standing up for human rights?
The point isn’t what is on the tapes. The point is our right to privacy whether we are the PM or a murdered teenager.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
Ahaaah!
I’ve just looked up my Maori dictionary and found ‘weihana’ is the Maori word for wanker.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
Ross, thanks for the post. It’s people like you who remind me why, after a lifetime of Labour voting, I switched to National. The current lot, you included, are a bunch of ferals.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 4:47 pm
You have to feel sorry for poor old Ross. On Tuesday, the lies of his beloved MUNZ were exposed. Today, the media’s childishness over the teapot tapes is being mocked, and David Shearer has been shown to by a hypocrite over the Crafar Farm sales. So you can probably excuse his lashing out.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 5:00 pm
Weihana:
The relationship between politicians and the media needs some mutual respect and trust. If Key’s staff asks for some privacy and the media leave the room (signalling their acquiescence to the request), then the media should treat the content of the conversation as private. (If the media had refused to leave the cafe, then it’s another story, but they left which was a clear signal to Key and Banks that they were letting them have a private conversation.)
Bradley Ambrose violated that respect and trust.
You can argue whether or not the cafe was a public place, but, regardless, it is clear that Mr. Ambrose acted in bad faith. I expect the media to act in good faith.
If John Key had let it go, it would send the wrong message to the media. The message would be “you can make a profit by violating my trust and nothing will happen to you”. That would mean that more events like this will happen. The relationship changes and the media culture changes. They no longer act in good faith. It becomes more acceptable to use dishonest tactics.
If things continue to deteriorate, the PM’s phone might get hacked, as the media has learned that illegal activity is OK, as long as it is sensational.
I’m glad that Key chose to take a stand and say that it is not OK to violate his trust like that. It seems Mr. Ambrose hasn’t made a profit out of this and he may regret making the recording. That sends the right message.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 5:01 pm
KS
Vote:The sad thing is that anyone with an ounce of integrity would not be lashing out. At best they would be apologising. At worst they would be crawling back under the stone. Ross is probably the least constructive commenter on any blog anywhere (I don’t count the stranded because I am convinced that it is really an online facility for those with dementia and a variety of other intelletual impairments.)
January 26th, 2012 at 5:02 pm
Adolf,
Can’t be. I’ve never masturbated in my life! Honest.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 5:15 pm
tas,
Yep, trust and respect. Nothing at all to do with the election.
Taping a conversation that is part of a media circus is a far cry from hacking someone’s phone. Yes Key did ask for “some” privacy. To me something is either private or public. If a swarm of news cameras are on me I tend to think I’m in the public spotlight and the situation is not private. Point is it’s debatable what expectations a person should have in such a situation and given those circumstances it is not unreasonable to just let the matter go and in future consider that the line between private and public can be especially blurry when you organize a political stunt.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 6:48 pm
Can’t be. I’ve never masturbated in my life! Honest.
That would make you a very un-natural and creepy person, and without doubt a liar ….;-)
Have you been to the NZ Conservative blog….?
lol
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 6:51 pm
Weihana
Perhaps such an especially blurry situation could benefit from clarity in the court? One way of clearing it up, particularly if the situation would otherwise be taken as a precedent by our intrepid reporters… as far as the use of police resources are concerned, I couldn’t comment specifically on their priorities; but from what they’ve said in the past, public interest does seem to have some influence in their decision making.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 6:54 pm
Quite right Scorned. Weihana’s a liar.
I just watched Penny being arrested and had to have a wank!
God that woman excites me!!
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 6:56 pm
The real point is what did the media hysteria do to the vote in particular Peters’ vote?
All for what?
It’s really about time the govt took on the MSM and gave them the message that either they start reporting truthfully or dire consequences will befall them re: access to the Parliamentary Gallery and access to Ministers.
Yes, shades of Muldoon, I know.
The real issue is, if they were objective, remedies like that wouldn’t even need to be considered but they are not objective and sadly it would seem the useful idiots amongst the public: i.e. 95% of the voting public apparently aren’t equipped to see through the transparent bullshit the MSM promulgate. They are a disease in our democracy. We either continue to tolerate this corrosive cancer or we take action. There is no third alternative.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:04 pm
“It’s really about time the govt took on the MSM and gave them the message”
Quite right reid. Here’s a few more ideas for you to work on!
“Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.”
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly – it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over”
“Whoever can conquer the street will one day conquer the state, for every form of power politics and any dictatorship-run state has its roots in the street.”
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
“Intellectual activity is a danger to the building of character”
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:07 pm
Well, this is one situation where The Standard comes in handy.
The entities that inhabit the threads there can’t find anything to get upset about, so one can only make the amazing conclusion that this was completely a media beatup.
Good on John Key for standing on principle.
But I guess expecting the media involved to apologise would be expecting them to have some small measure of integrity.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:09 pm
The truth is we don’t know what effect anything had on votes, for NZF or any party. NZF was already trending up. The electorate was looking for any alternative and NZF was the chosen one, perhaps before the tea nonsense blew up. Winston’s stunt in Invercargill may have put people off as much as attracting them.
It was widely predicted that National would ease to a bit below 50% long before.
And NZF probably encroached on Labour votes as much as anything.
But I guess expecting the media involved to apologise would be expecting them to have some small measure of integrity.
Now that would be major news if they did apologise.
It was significant that TV3 reported on the recording well down the bulletin tonight and could only manage slight exaggerations.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:15 pm
The mad old/conspiracy convinced/disaffected racist/yellow peril fearing loonies all vote for Winston anyway Petey.
His percentage always goes up when the terminally confused get the orange marker in their hands.
They mostly stick to either Labour or Nat. With the huge drop for Labour in 2011 their loonies went for Green/Winnie.
Simple as that really.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:16 pm
Weihana:
I see you want to go down the “it was in a public place” route. Let’s see…
(i) Suppose Key is chatting with a journalist before an interview and he says “Just between you and me, I think X”. Suppose the journalist then runs a “Key says X” headline. Now technically, the journalist hasn’t done anything illegal, as he didn’t sign a legally binding confidentiality agreement. But hopefully you’ll agree that it is a betrayal of the PM’s trust and acting in bad faith.
(ii) Suppose Key makes a phone call in the corner of a lobby before an appearance and some reporter catches it using a telescopic microphone. Now, you could argue that Key was in a public place and he was aware that reporters were about, thus the contents of his phone call are public. Perhaps Key should have gone to a secure area. But hopefully you agree that this is unreasonable and definitely in bad faith.
(iii) Suppose Key does a Gordon Brown.
The point of my examples is that there are shades of grey when it comes to privacy and we shouldn’t expect the PM to retreat to a secure room, have GCSB sweep for bugs, and demand that everyone sign confidentiality agreements before meeting him before he can say something candidly. The media should act in good faith and anyone should be able to expect some privacy when indicated.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:24 pm
And, Weihana, hopefully you agree that releasing the PM’s phone number is just a dick move without any justification.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:35 pm
tas>And, Weihana, hopefully you agree that releasing the PM’s phone number is just a dick move without any justification.
I see he’s had to change it. So that’s an own-goal for Winston Peters who won’t be able to have NZ First MPs send Key drunken texts at all hours of the night,
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:36 pm
The thing they were talking about right before discovering the device was about how they didnt think much of Brash. Given they both probably believed Brash was going to make it back into parliament, they probably didn’t want that getting out.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:42 pm
“Whoever can conquer the street will one day conquer the state, for every form of power politics and any dictatorship-run state has its roots in the street.”
Not in my dictatorship Johnboy. I just couldn’t be arsed putting up with all that ill-informed crap about “human wights.” Sewiously.
Therefore upon my ascension one of my very first acts would be to drag every single editor of anything: TV, Radio, Papers, Magazines, blogs, you name it, into my “enlightenment central” building which
deliberatelycoincidentally looked a bit like the Lubyanka and gently explain to them the importance of projecting me and my mates in just the right sort of light.I’m pretty confident that would work, at least until I’d managed to siphon off enough state cash to make me and my loved ones comfortable for a very long time indeed. Shame about the poor people but they’ve only got themselves to blame for not having any cash to give me so I can get “re-elected” on the odd occasion I need to demonstrate my complete and total utter legitimacy to my subjects. I got these ideas from watching the same formula over the years operate with complete success all over the world. I’ve observed it works particularly well when the multi-nationals and banks from the Western nations get lots and lots of natural resources at really cheap rates and loans from the banks at really expensive rates which the poor people have to pay off for the rest of their miserable lives, so I’m pretty confident I wouldn’t go down the same road as people like Gaddaffi, Muburak and Assad.
It’s quite odd really that if I was to be a “nice guy” and really give the poor people in my country a fair deal at the expense of aforementioned Western multi-nationals and banks it doesn’t seem to work in quite the same way but I guess that’s life, isn’t it. Anyway, you seem like a great guy, so let me know when it happens, if you want to be a “Minister.” Wink.
The truth is we don’t know what effect anything had on votes, for NZF or any party. NZF was already trending up.
Well you may not know Pete. Crikey, I thought you understood politics. It’s quite elementary: here it is
NZF vote (x) = {q + [q2 + (r-p2)3]1/2}1/3 + {q – [q2 + (r-p2)3]1/2}1/3 + p
where
p = -b/(3a), q = p3 + (bc-3ad)/(6a2), r = c/(3a)
(I recommend you memorise these formulae for future reference, they’re really handy on election night.)
In case you detect a variation halfway through the count, use:
(Wp)rsM = nr + s.
where:
[latex]frac{dr^*}{dr}=frac{r^2}{(r-r_+)(r-r_-)} = frac{A}{r-r_+} + frac{B}{r-r_-}[/latex]
if we multiply through by [latex]r-r_+[/latex] we get:
[latex]frac{r^2}{(r-r_-)}=A + frac{B(r-r_+)}{r-r_-}[/latex]
Then to get rid of the B term we set [latex]r=r_+[/latex] giving
[latex]frac{r_+^2}{r_+-r_-}=A[/latex]
So it’s obvious really, isn’t it. Crikey again. (“Latex” BTW is the amount of beer you’ve had that night – it’s pretty durn common to fail to correct for that, which is why the pollsters and TV commentators are normally way off the actual mark.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
“So what we know now is that John Key acted on principle…”
I didn’t realise Nat supporters did satire. I was wrong.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:49 pm
“The point is our right to privacy whether we are the PM or a murdered teenager”
Just because the PM compared himself to a murdered teenager doesn’t mean you have to follow suit. Try thinking for yourself.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:50 pm
Lubyanka. Wrong prison, wrong ideology reid.
Try 8 Prinz-Albrecht-Strasse. Sounds like you are on the right track though.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 7:58 pm
ps: reid. If your looking for a Minister, I’m awfully keen on the uniforms. Black becomes me I’ve been told and how can a farmer not fancy big black boots?
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 8:01 pm
I would be prepared to convert from sheep to chicken farming if it was historically required.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 9:28 pm
Lubyanka. Wrong prison, wrong ideology reid.
Yeah I know. It’s just that it’s a useful image through pavlovian association Johnboy. This is what keeps the masses in line. Marketers use pavlov every day but they seem for some reason to prefer poofy things like rainbows, lollipops and such. Why use candy when you can use a hammer, is my worldview.
I’m awfully keen on the uniforms. Black becomes me I’ve been told and how can a farmer not fancy big black boots?
This is excellent Johnboy for I too like uniforms and I look pretty good in black as well. As a matter of fact using the principal enuciated by Michael Gerber in the E-Myth to make a game out of work in order to motivate and orient your employees toward customer service, I intend to make a game of rewarding my ministers for saluting smartly, clicking heels and shouting “Jawohl mine Fuhrer” as often as they possibly can, when I’m in the room. Of course certain misunderstandings may ensue amongst the public were they to hear of such goings on hence my plan to “educate” the media in advance.
The chicken conversion may be a goer. What are you like with pentagrams and suchlike? How would like a castle on your farm?
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 10:08 pm
reid
I’m not sure that a mittelalterliche Burg Wainuiomata isn’t already under construction. Your humble correspondent heard of a secret resource consent hearing held recently & initial reports make mention of dungeons, underground sheep dips & a torture chamber set up like a butcher’s shop.
A spokesman for the simple folk who inhabit the nearby village was interviewed during a lull in hostilities at the Wainuiomata Tavern carpark. While St John’s tended the wounded & removed the dead he spoke of “evil” goings on at the castle up the valley. Truckloads of sheep enter every night but none leave.
Due to your close proximity to the house of death we will have to leave it to you to infiltrate the cell & take appropriate action.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 10:13 pm
Thanks for the intel nasska. Will do…
These opposition cells must be identified and dealt with. I really hate pretenders.
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 10:20 pm
P.S. Do you like black uniforms as well or do you have a different sense of style?
Vote:January 26th, 2012 at 10:30 pm
reid
Minimalist casual would define my attire. Rugby shorts, swandri & boots covered in sheep shit are high fashion where I live.
Nah….give the uniform a miss.
Vote:January 27th, 2012 at 12:05 am
DPF – careful. If you think the recording was criminal, then telling other people it exists is also criminal.
Vote:January 27th, 2012 at 2:19 am
Say Graeme, if he has to do porridge for that, maybe he could give me his blog for safekeeping.
I’ll return it to him in a new, improved version, I’m sure!
Vote:January 27th, 2012 at 8:21 am
Graeme, partisan blogs never apply the law evenly. You’re wasting your breath. (or keys)
Vote:January 27th, 2012 at 8:42 am
According to an article in todays NZ Herald 27/1 ,NZ has slipped in rank with regards to media freedom.The article i think,was trying to convey a impression, mentioning the Teapot tape,that any illegality done in trying to obtain a story should be condoned and sanctioned by the public at large.
wrong…when will these people learn they are not above the law.
and as aside…if media freedom means,some journalist,can print an one sided article on the particular traits of a typical right wing supporter then to be fair,why not mention the particular traits of a leftwing supporter eg more likely to be unemployed,live in a defacto relationship etc.
Media freedom…it hasnt been free for years…research has shown,it is totally dominated by the left.
Vote:January 27th, 2012 at 8:58 am
Media freedom can mean different things.
To media companies media freedom means the freedom to discover anything and publish it without any concern for the rights of those being used to gather the information.
The rest of us have no freedom at all to say what we want in the media, except for on our own wee blogs.
Is this the sort of freedom The Herald demands?
Vote:January 27th, 2012 at 9:02 am
Poor Ross. Just argue the point not the person. I know it’s hard when you’re on the losing side.
Vote:January 27th, 2012 at 10:10 am
# tas (152) Says:
January 26th, 2012 at 7:16 pm
“Weihana:
I see you want to go down the “it was in a public place” route. Let’s see…
(i) Suppose Key is…
(ii) Suppose Key makes a…
(iii) Suppose Key does a…”
Lets stick to what happened in this particular case. My point is not to argue whether or not the journalist was justified in recording the conversation. My point is simply to argue that it is debateable and that the use of the police was a waste of resources.
The point of my examples is that there are shades of grey when it comes to privacy and we shouldn’t expect the PM to retreat to a secure room, have GCSB sweep for bugs, and demand that everyone sign confidentiality agreements before meeting him before he can say something candidly. The media should act in good faith and anyone should be able to expect some privacy when indicated.
You’re right there are shades of grey. That is why this isn’t comparable to the phone hacking scandal which is a very black and white case with no question of whether it was justified.
Moreover, in this case the PM orchestrated this circus as part of an election stunt. He created a situation where the lines between private and public were blurred and so given his involvement in setting up this situation I feel little sympathy for him when it backfires.
Of course it’s hard to say it really backfired when it kept Labour out of the spotlight in the days leading up to the election.
And, Weihana, hopefully you agree that releasing the PM’s phone number is just a dick move without any justification.
Sure. But it would seem less of a waste just to change the phone number rather than mobilizing the police when the tape would, in all probability, be leaked at some point. And now it has been leaked and he has to change his number anyway.
Vote:January 27th, 2012 at 10:18 am
# adze (1,064) Says:
January 26th, 2012 at 6:51 pm
Perhaps such an especially blurry situation could benefit from clarity in the court? One way of clearing it up, particularly if the situation would otherwise be taken as a precedent by our intrepid reporters… as far as the use of police resources are concerned, I couldn’t comment specifically on their priorities; but from what they’ve said in the past, public interest does seem to have some influence in their decision making.
But what has been cleared up? Last I heard a decision couldn’t be made while the police are investigating and their investigation has stalled. As for the public interest, the public may take an interest in a lot of things. Sonny Bill Williams dating some girl appears to take the interest of the public going by Stuff’s ranking of top stories at the moment. But when it comes down to it I think the public, after sober reflection, would consider that the police could put their resources towards more useful endeavours rather than investigating a political scandal. The public may not take notice of every burglary, assault, rape or homicide but I’m sure they expect the police to do so and to prioritise such matters far above any recording of two men having a cup of tea.
Vote:January 27th, 2012 at 10:25 am
# ross (1,407) Says:
January 26th, 2012 at 7:45 pm
“So what we know now is that John Key acted on principle…”
I didn’t realise Nat supporters did satire. I was wrong.
Simple test to see who sincerely believes it is a matter of principle. We just have a show of hands of the people who did not go and listen to the recording on Youtube because if they did so they would have participated in the violation of Mr. Key’s privacy.
Vote:January 27th, 2012 at 10:40 am
Move along…
Vote:January 27th, 2012 at 11:31 am
What is wrong for most New Zealanders we are told is right for the Media, as told by the Media, as they see themselves above the law.
Vote:What the Media have shown themselves up over the last 10 years to be inept, and possibly corruptible. Sell advertising as its the only way to stay in business. Thank goodness for Every Day/Month specials
They learnt from the cosy “private” relationships that they had with Helen Clark and Heather Simpson which has not followed up with John Key.
Phil Goff may have tried with inside Media but failed, as he did not leak enough, as he was coming from a position of political party weakness.
Shearer will probably be the same as Goff but Grant Robertson is well schooled, by his number three role with Clark, in media obfuscation and enducement like Clark. Private phone numbers, always available to the media chosen.
January 27th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
But so what? At some stage they will need to make a decision about whether to proceed. If they feel that the situation doesn’t warrant further investigation, or if their legal advice turns out to be that it wasn’t a breach of privacy, they’ll make that call. The point is, we don’t know yet and with a distracting controversy that is possibly going to be repeated in the future until the legality is cleared up, it will be useful to know (from the media’s point of view if nothing else).
I don’t know why the police prioritised the investigation, I’m just speculating. of course I’m not suggesting that public interest is the sole determinant of police focus, that’s an absurd straw man. Only that it maybe a factor. I haven’t listened to the alleged recording, btw. Personally, I think the fact the Herald and TV3 pursued the matter despite knowing the contents of the recording because of hubris – reminding the politicians of their influence during an election (“we can take you down if we want” etc).
Vote: