Breast v Bottle
February 8th, 2012 at 10:00 am by David FarrarThe Herald reports:
A mother who bottle-feeds her son says she has been repeatedly harassed by other mothers in public – and is now embarrassed to go to the supermarket for his formula.
Kate Rhodes, 24, of Manukau, says she has been told off, harassed and accused of being a bad mother while bottle-feeding her 6-month-old son, Dylan.
“It’s ridiculous how much grief people get just for having a bottle. Two weeks ago I was at the mall in the food court and my son started to cry.
“I gave him a bottle and a lady came up to me and said it’s a really bad look and it’s not a good way to represent New Zealand parents.
“I was just like, ‘are you serious?’. I told her to eff off.”
Well done Kate Rhodes.
My views on this issue are probably about as valid as on home birthing, but Eleanor Black at Pundit has summed it up very well:
Good grief. Piri Weepu is shown bottle-feeding his six-month-old daughter Taylor on an anti-smoking ad, and somehow this image of nurturing and positive fathering is construed as an attack on breastfeeding. As my nearly-three-year-old would say, “What?!”
Black sumarises how the anti-smoking ad was altered after complaints to remove the two seconds of Weepu bottle-feeding his daughter, and then notes:
First the obvious problems with the argument that this two seconds of bottle-feeding is an attack on breastfeeding. How do we know by simply looking at the image that Weepu is not giving his baby expressed mother’s milk? How do we know that his partner — like many women — didn’t try very hard to make breastfeeding work but found she couldn’t? Why would anyone see the image of a father helping with the baby care, feeding his child and nurturing her, and not think, “How lovely” instead of “How outrageous”?
98% of people did think how lovely.
And why do we parents have to put up with another scolding from well-meaning bossyboots in the health sector? Come on — give us some credit for being able to distinguish between something we see on TV and the practices we choose to employ in our own homes, for being able to assess the available information and make an informed decision that works for us and our families. We are not imbeciles, despite what you all seem to think. This coddling gets tiresome.
Absolutely.
February 8th, 2012 at 10:13 am
Both my kids needed bottle feeding or they would have starved to death. We don’t have convenient wet-nurses on call any more so it was bottles. Being able to feed them was one of the most incredible experiences of my life. I would have said more than ‘eff off’ to any busy body who interferred.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 10:15 am
Nothing as angry as a woman spurned. Go on you for telling the PC clowns to fuck off.
Just imagine how many of us men feel.
Imagine being a male school teacher and the risks of vilification that go with that.
When we speak out it gets worse.
Arise the non PC.
Phew at last.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 10:20 am
She did the right thing by telling the milk nazi to fuck off.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 10:24 am
The feminazis are at it again. Helen Klarkism is alive and well in the kiwi weak-as-piss culture.
Same with my wife, Brian.
With the birth of our first son, my wife tried to breast feed but she had inverted nipples, and could not – despite some grumpy old bitch of a nurse trying to manipulate them to work, to my wife’s pain and embarrassment. I was contemplating an assault charge against her.
My daughter was the same, and one of my daughters-in-law. Some women simply CANNOT breast feed – it doesn’t matter how much they want to.
My wife works for a company that specializes in baby products. Currently, they are forbidden to give bottle-feeding instructions to pharmacy or shop staff in the training of young mothers to bottle feed.
What an effing joke!
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 10:30 am
How is Piri supposed to breastfeed his child? Presumably the child must go hungry in the interests of political correctness.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 10:36 am
I wish there was as much attention given to drinking during pregnancy and breast feeding. The number of pregnant women you see in court on drink driving charges is disturbing. They are damaging their children’s brains.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 10:38 am
Also, it does make sense to encourage breast feeding for various health reasons provided the baby isn’t allergic of course.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 10:39 am
Bottle feeding is essential for some babies – my daughter persevered with express and bottle feed for two month before she was able to feed her first direct from breast (her second fed within hours of being born), and some can’t breast feed at all.
So this is grossly over the top pressure and message control.
But…there has to be a decent balance, if it’s possible breast feeding is the best option for the baby and should be promoted to a reasonable extent, but not to the extent of ostracising those who can’t.
Not all mothers are intelligent or selfless when their babies are concerned. It’s very easy for convenience or selfishness over body image to sway a (probably small) proportion of mothers. Over promotion of baby products including formula is a significant issue world wide.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 10:49 am
We as a nation continually see the results of fathers not being involved in child rearing. How more positive an image can we have than a male bottle feeding his child.
I’m so over these feminists dictating to us how to raise of kids. Seriously, engage your brains before mouths.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 10:55 am
As I understand it, Piri’s children are bottle fed because they have an allergy and there are medical reasons. As people have mentioned, not everyone can breastfeed. Two of my three children were not breastfed which caused my wife some considerable physical discomfort and emotional upset. It was not a matter of choice. By their actions over this advertisement, La Leche league condemn and humiliate women who, through no fault of their own, cannot do what they would probably be the love to do. It shows a degree of tolerance that I find incredible.
It probably did not occur to them either that a public photograph of a father bottlefeeding a child was a very good image to present given our current climate of abuse. They are so immersed in their own fanatical zeal that they cannot see the wood for the trees. The fact that the advertiser changed the advertisement is appalling. The advertiser was gutless.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:03 am
You know what is worse than bottle feeding a baby formula?
Malnourished babies.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:04 am
I agree, the person who made the call to change the advert is a gutless coward. Even worse, a fucking gutless coward. I have to admit though, to my mother’s horror, we never used to even warm the formula milk up. My boy was so hungry he was happy to have it straight from the fridge. Funnily enough, that may explain why at 16 he still drinks cold milk straight from the fridge and anything left on a bench for more than a minute is ‘too warm”.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:10 am
Breast feeding IS better than bottle feeding formula. No question.
The problem is there are just as many BS reasons to bottle feed as there are legitimate reasons.
I do know people who didnt breastfeed because it was ‘icky’, and another who was just too embarrassed.
That said, the difference between bottle-fed and breast-fed is probably much, much smaller than the obsessives assume.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:13 am
Some people just can’t help sticking their nose in to other peoples business.
As several others have mentioned, some women just can not breast feed – my mother was in this situation. And some couples may well choose to supplement breast-feeding with bottle-feeding. My wife breast-fed our daughter for 99.9% of the time, but there were some very rare occasions when I would bottle-feed her because my wife was exhausted after looking after her all day and needed the sleep.
As also mentioned, why the hell aren’t these people PRAISING those fathers who are choosing to be actively involved in raising their children, as opposed to those who can’t be bothered and abandon the mother of their child? We have far too many solo mothers in this country, and maybe if more fathers followed Piri’s example and helped their partners out we wouldn’t have all the problems we do.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:19 am
More “news” based on one person’s claims, breathlessly reported. Almost certainly no fact checking by any “journalist”.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:21 am
I’ve seen the breast is best folks first hand. They are nutters.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:21 am
Which television ads at he moment DO NOT show men as being fucking stupid idiots?
Not many – watch a few ad breaks with that in mind.
And for most of them think: “How well would this go down if it was a woman instead?”
To see Piri Weepu nurturing and caring for his daughter would have been a small step but giant leap for MANkind.
It may have even been an image to start countering the continual bashing of toddlers, especially Maori babies.
The entire country must now know that Piri Weepu bottle feeds their baby.
Maybe expressed milk, or formula
The Womans’ Weekly story will probably tell you in the doctors waiting room
But the whole deal is now as fucking silly as most cases of name suppression.
Any publicity is good publicity? La Leche may be making a major mistake to think that.
PS – Thank God, La Leche is Spanish – but funny enough the name does not refer to the container
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:24 am
Another media talking head, going on some ideological rant getting basic facts wrong – Sigh. Must be a day ending in Y.
There. I hope that clears up any confusion about which “Nazis” are doing what, and to whom?
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:29 am
Don the Kiwi, to be fair to the nurse, she was almost certainly under pressure from her manager to put your wife under that pressure and the nurses’ bonus may have depended on it. The manager comes under pressure from policy and guidelines produced by the Ministry of Health, who have been completely captured by the activists. If the nurse had given any advice other than what she did, she risks being subject to an investigation which could take months and possibly more than a year to complete, and risks being censured and ostracised by her peers. The entire system has been corrupted by the activists.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:31 am
RRM makes a valid argument. Time to purge the uselessness out of the MoH!!!
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:31 am
I just wish the nanny state wosers just go away. The next time someone who receives public funding makes dopey comments like this, should have the funding terminated.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:32 am
For a long time the medical establishment believed that gunshot wounds were “poisonous” and that immediate amputation of a wounded limb was imperative in any and all cases.
Fortunately, “the system” was gradually “infiltrated by activists” who were considered “mad” by some, and gradually better practises began to prevail.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:42 am
aah..I could do with a bit breast feeding myself.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:48 am
As you read through this thread you realise that once again we have almost lost this battle to the politically correct wankers.
Not one of you needs to explain why you had to bottle feed, yet ,for some reason many feel compelled to do so. This shows that the La Leche crowd have manged to manipulate public opinion to such an extent that many feel compelled to explain or defend their choice.
A simply “fuck off” directed at any La Leche nazi or hairy legged feminist is all you need.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:50 am
I was told in hospital to go home and send my milk in for my premature babies; they didn’t have room for me and my milk was more important anyway.
Vote:That is when I knew I was surrounded by crazy people. It is evolutionary unfavorable to abandon your newborn(s). You never humor crazy people or they spread their crazy cultish ways.
To think that in this day and age, couples can’t decide the best way to feed their children. Personally I think LLL and their ilk are anti women; not with intention either but their message has got too rigid.
February 8th, 2012 at 11:57 am
My wife was unable to breastfeed when we had our babies (fairly common with babies that arrive early and are delivered by caesar). The badgering and emotional blackmail that my wife was subjected to form so-called “nurses” was appalling. We are dealing with pro-breastfeeding zealots who simply do not care about the welfare of young parents.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 11:57 am
I saw some woman on Tele the other night, can’t recall if it was Close Up or C Live. She was promoting Breastfeeding and defending the actions of censoring the TV advert.
Vote:From her age and apperance (old and ugly) I thought she had disqualified herself from making an informed comment on the matter
February 8th, 2012 at 12:00 pm
***Not one of you needs to explain why you had to bottle feed, yet ,for some reason many feel compelled to do so. ***
Probably because all things being equal breast feeding appears to be the better thing to do. There are a number of studies on this in terms of brain development, although I’ll have to check to see if they control for maternal IQ.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 12:11 pm
My wife also had issues with breast feeding. She managed to keep it up for 6 weeks any way (supplemented by formula at times).
Some of the nurses, lactation consultants etc were lovely – supportive, encouraging, informative. A few of them were awful – pressurising, judgemental and downright rude.
I think it’s absolutely right that the MOH has policies to provide information on the benefits of breastfeeding and provide a supportive environment – this is informed by science showing a range of benefits to the developing child.
But I think there are major problems in the implementation and training – some nurses have a real problem accepting that breastfeeding doesn’t work in every case. I think the root cause of the problems with bullying and pressurising may well be to do with the management and incentives as ben has said above – it’s the health sector equivalent of the Harvey Norman sales rep who insists on harassing you and telling you what you want because he has to meet a monthly sales target.
I think it comes unstuck when nurses are told they need to ‘change attitudes’ and ‘encourage’ breastfeeding – this is basically telling them it is their job to control what other people think, as the Zimbardo social psychology prison experiments showed, you can take the most normal people at random and when you place them in that kind of role the nastiest sides of human nature come out.
It is not the job of the state to tell people what to think – provide information that breastfeeding has health benefits over bottle feeding and most women will do that if they can – it’s safe to assume that most women have the best interests of the baby in mind – if they don’t then the kids has bigger problems than minor improvements in immune system development to worry about.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
The breast feeding nazis are doing their best to catch up with the smoking nazis.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
Gotta love the feminists.
Abortion is a womans choice but breastfeeding isn’t.
Go figure.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 1:01 pm
Fashion….
You don’t neeed to dig very far back on this blog to find tales of woman being harrassed for breast feeding in public.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 1:10 pm
This is no ones business except the owner of the beasts. Every other busybody can fuck right off.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 1:17 pm
From what I can gather, the MoH (Health Dept – call it whatever you like) is dominated by feministic nazis – most of whom are childless? One wonders what “qualifications” one needs to not only agree with “breast is best” policies, but insist that nurses – indirectly employed by MoH – spout the dogma to new mothers?
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 1:23 pm
***Gotta love the feminists.***
Don’t see what it has to do with feminists particularly. I would have thought they would be in favour of anything that reduces a females biological responsibility for child rearing.
I thought the issue was more to do with the evidence that breast feeding is possibly better for brain development.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=surety-bond-breast-feeding
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 1:44 pm
It’s got every thing to do with feminazi ideology and nothing to do with l science.
Like global warming,ideology.
Vote:February 8th, 2012 at 9:24 pm
In this country, there are two products that are prohibited by law from being advertised for sale in print, on TV, raio or any other media.
One is Cigarettes, the other is formula for newborn babies.
My boy ended up in Neo Natal care with severe jaundice, having lost more than 10% of his body weight because my wife simply could not produce what he needed due to a pre-existing condition that we had no idea could adversely affect milk production. We were pressured to continue to try breast feeding because that was what was best for him. Obviously, the best thing for him was to be fed what he needed, but try telling the zealots that are responsible for this sort of thinking.
He’s fine now, and so is his sister, who was bottle fed from day 1.
Vote:February 9th, 2012 at 9:25 am
Her response to this woman was right. But lets not forget there a some people in this country who have their lives in such a perfect state that they can tell others how to run theirs.
The problem is when the government run what is probably a well intentioned campaign you get these nut jobs who want to make it into the next crusade and end up doing more damage than good.
Vote: