Some sense on RTDs

August 23rd, 2012 at 1:22 pm by David Farrar

John Hartevelt at Stuff reports:

The liquor industry has scored a win over the planned regulation of in the Government’s reform package.

I think it is a win for common sense, and actually a win for reduced harm from alcohol.

Justice Minister Judith Collins yesterday revealed she had dumped an earlier plan to ban the sale of ”RTDs” (ready-to-drink) with more than 6 per cent alcohol content from off-license stores.

Alcohol reforms initially announced by former Justice Minister Simon Power originally included a ban on RTDs with 5 per cent alcohol or more from off-licenses.

The proposed ban was effectively a form of prohibition.  Research (a phone poll, two point of sale surveys and eight focus groups) Curia did for Independent Liquor left me in no doubt that the impact of trying to ban RTDs over 5% would be a significant substitution effect, with many people going from say 8% RTDs to (on average) 13% self-mixes. Note that the research Curia did for ILNZ was over a year ago, and I have no ongoing commercial relationship with them.

The experience in Australia with increasing taxes on RTDs also produced empirical evidence of increased substitution to spirits, and this is one of the reasons the Law Commission did not recommend this measure.

Instead, the bill will include a ”regulation-making power” for the Government to restrict the sale of RTDs in future. Until the powers are exercised, however, RTD sales will be left to work under the industry’s own code.

”The Government has decided to give the alcohol industry the opportunity to introduce its own measures to limit the harm to young people caused by RTDs,” Collins said.

”The industry has offered to put in place a voluntary code on RTDs. If the industry measures are ineffective, Government has the ability to take action through a regulation-making power in the bill. This allows restrictions on the sale of RTDs at any time in the future.” …

The association promised in April to:

- Limit the production and distribution of new RTDs to a maximum of two ”standard drinks” per single container.
- Show clearly the number of ”standard drinks” on each container.
- Ensure no RTDs have ”specific appeal to minors”.
- Comply with the Code for Advertising Liquor, administered by the Advertising Standards Authority.
- ”Invest and support” responsible drinking educational programmes.

There are some RTDs which are, shall we say, a but anti-social. I’m not a fan of the Bigfoot RTD which was a large 6 – 8 standard drinks in one container.  There is a certain incentive to finish a container, and people don’t tend to share containers as they might say individual drinks.

So a self-regulatory limit of say 2 standard drinks per container has merit in my opinion. A restriction on the number of drinks per container is much more sensible than trying to ban 6% RTDs, when people would then buy 40% vodka. The reality is that some RTD drinkers do not like the 5% RTDs (they call them lolly water) and prefer the stronger ones.

A limit of two standard drinks per container means they have as much alcohol as a standard double nip in a bar.

There were also two other problems with the proposed prohibition on RTDs over 5%. One is that under CER, the RTDs could be made in Australia, and imported here. We would simply be exporting jobs.

The third is that prohibition does not work as well as self-regulation. If you ban say 8% RTDs, then manufacturers could do inventive stuff like sell a container which has (for example) rum in one part and coke in the other, and you just mix them together to make your own RTD (just as many self-mix from spirits from mixers).

I have no doubt that the proposed prohibition on RTDs over 5% would have not only failed, it would have increased overall harm from alcohol. I am glad the Government is going for something that will work, over something that sounds good, but would be harmful.

Tags: ,

92 Responses to “Some sense on RTDs”

  1. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    It’s thorny. This means people will have to buy more packs to get equally drunk so it equates to potential increased profitablility for the industry.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I reckon just ban RTDs. They look ugly, target immature drinkers, and add no value to society. Moreover, you can easily mix your own drinks to taste by purchasing the relevant spirit(s) and mixer(s).

    I went to a bogan wedding once where these less than desirable guests pulled out a box of ‘Cody’s’ and became abusive to other attendees.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Grendel (951 comments) says:

    oh well then of course. since hamnida got upset on a school night because some bad people drank too much lets ban the lot.

    How about you fuck off? You may be completely right that RTDs look ugly (and probably taste it as well), target immature drinkers, and add no value to society. but so fucking what?

    its none of your business. nothing you do adds any value to ‘society’ either, certainly none of your views on incomes, jobs, education and anything else you have spouted on here.

    should we be able to ban you from NZ?

    How about, we focus on the actual problem, which is people who drink too much and then cause problems for others. drinking too much on its own is not an issue other than a personal one. its only an issue when you decide to make trouble for others. focus on them, and leave the vast majority of drinkers who dont cause problems alone.

    From my experience, most people are fine with alcohol, even if they get slaughtered drunk. the wowsers are the bigger issue.

    statists of all colours and creeds seem to think it is perfectly valid to punish 99% of people becuase of the actions of the stupid 1%. well kindly fuck off.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. hmmokrightitis (1,508 comments) says:

    Its not what were drinking, its the ugly people who get laid after the drinking that should be of concern to all of us

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I’m not saying people can’t drink – beer, wine and spirits would still be available.

    I just think RTDs serve no purpose.

    If you ban me from New Zealand, I’ll have to go back to Korea.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    Hamnida thinks RTD’s are ugly so ban them.
    Shamnida thinks wine is ugly so ban it.
    Whamnida thinks beer is ugly so ban it.
    Bamnida thinks spirits are ugly so ban them.

    Then things will really get ugly.

    Alternately we could address the actual problems.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Grendel (951 comments) says:

    and again, who gives a fuck if RTDs serve no purpose?

    if they serve no purpose for you, dont buy them. there that was simple. But stop interfering in other peoples life. I dont like most RTDs (hell most alcohol) either, but its not up to me to be the moral arbiter of what people should and should not do and what ‘serves a purpose’.

    the fact that you think you can make that call shows you up to be the most arrogant prick of a statist.

    there is no objective score of ‘purpose’ for the things in life that determine whether people want them or choose to buy them. its entirely up to them subjectively.

    so far you have served no purpose Hamn (certainly your certificate in sociology is not worth the cereal packet you got it from), so what do we do about you?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Me, I care, and believe they serve no purpose. I think New Zealand would be better without them.

    I don’t have a certificate in sociology.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I think we should move to a European style and attitude towards drinking. For example, replacing drinking RTDs in carparks with German style Beerfests.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Grendel (951 comments) says:

    If you want to change behavious,then create a business and try and promote it and see if people WANT to change. but dont be a weaselly statist and try to force people to do something just becuase you have a snit with their activity. if you wish to move to a european style of drinking go for it. Soccer fans are european, should we be like them?

    Oh so you are an amateur sociologist, thats even worse than a qualified one.

    the fact that you ‘care’ is irrelevant, the fact that you think NZ would be better off without RTDs is irrelevant. its none of your business what people choose to drink.

    tell us something you like to do and i am sure we can show you how it serves no purpose and should be banned. clearly you have no objection to banning something just becuase someone else sees no purpose in it. tell us the purpose you serve and why we should not get rid of you. so far i see nothing about you that serves a purpose, and i think NZ would be better off without you. thats all we need to get rid of you right?

    BTW get the ‘logic’ of Hamnida. its ok to buy bourbon and coke and mix up a 13% (or worse) drink and get shitfaced. but its bad to buy a bottle of premixed bourbon and cola at 6 or 8% and have two and not get drunk. one of these activities serves no purpose and hamandidiot wants it banned, the other apparently is ok. twat.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Ask yourself this question – Would New Zealand be a better place without RTDs? Of course it would be, RTDs are nasty.

    The bogans and teenagers who drink them can move from the toxic content of RTDs to pure German beer brewing methods.

    Everyone will be better for the change.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. Elaycee (4,301 comments) says:

    Hamfisted:

    Would New Zealand be a better place…?

    Actually, I think your other suggestion was better:

    I’ll have to go back to Korea.

    :D

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    The guts of the issue is this – Even though you Neolibs know RTDs serve no legitimate purpose, you are so fixated with the free market and against regulation that you are blinded to practical solutions.

    If people are going to drink, fresh German beer is a much better option than ‘Cody’s’ and ‘Woodies’.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. Grendel (951 comments) says:

    Define ‘legitimate purpose’ and then show objectively how one form of alcohol has none and one does. and then show how that objectively is a practical solution, but first highlight the objective problem that banning one kind of alcohol will somehow fix.

    You weaselly little statists (see we can make up labels as well, just this one makes sense) are so determined to tell people how to live that you make up problems and the make up the solutions to fit your own bias.

    the fact that you are a snob as well as a weaselly little statist (WLS) makes you even worse.

    i think my coeliac friends would disagree that your fresh german beer is better for them than many of the RTds, but hey keep digging asshole.

    but go on, explain the difference between your snobby beer and an RTD, objectively.

    you cannot, but you are another snob who looks down on the choices of others and wants to control them but subtely ignores your own choices.

    us free marketers know that its none of our business what people choose to buy. if someone wishes to buy an RTD, or snobby german beer or wine or whatever, then that product has a legitimate purpose. someone has chosen to buy it, therefore it is wanted, therefore its purpose was to fulfill that persons need. there you go, you WLS’s know this but choose to ignore it becuase you want to control other peoples lives.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Hair Removal Specialist (74 comments) says:

    If people are going to drink, fresh German beer is a much better option than ‘Cody’s’ and ‘Woodies’ if you are a pretentious snob like Hamnida.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    There we have it, exactly why the free market does not work. Some people are drinking toxic RTDs instead of fresh German beer.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Elaycee (4,301 comments) says:

    ” …fresh German beer. ”

    As a matter of interest, where can you purchase ‘fresh German beer’ in NZ?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Jinky (170 comments) says:

    I’m not sure trying to legislate what young people can drink is addressing the problem. many young people indulge in risky drinking (used to be mainly a male thing when I was younger) and like I did they’ll find the cheapest effective method. (Buckfast Tonic wine was our poison). As others have said that’s a personal choice with personal risks/consequences. However the flow-on effect in criminal behaviour, ED presentations, unwanted pregnancies, STDs, financial problems etc are borne by the public and the public purse. Changing NZ society’s attutude to alcohol and our drinking behaviour is the real problem. RTDs are just the current method of abuse SOME people are using. our young peopel are only the most visible sign of NZ’s drinking Culture.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. dime (9,430 comments) says:

    hamnida – so using your logic pot should stay illegal too right?

    fuckin lefties just love taking away freedoms.

    RTD’s serve no purpose??? bullshit! if some trashy douche bag wants to slaughter himself on RTD’s then all good :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. James Stephenson (2,029 comments) says:

    RTD’s are not the problem, people having no more taste or self respect that they’re looking for the cheapest, lowest effort, way to get shitfaced drunk is the problem.

    I’ve never set out deliberately to get smashed, I drink because I enjoy many of the quality alcoholic beverages available (and some mass market NZ “beer” as well) and, well sometimes ending up smashed is the result, but it was never the objective.

    If you reckon you can legislate that attitude to drinking into people, never mind a “being pissed is baad m’kay” outlook, I think you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. dime (9,430 comments) says:

    Dime used to make “Uncle Dimes Rocket Fuel”. Id skim from every bottle in the family liquor cabinet..

    a dash of rum, some vodka, some bourbon, some brandy etc etc add a dash of lemonade or raro and we were all good :D

    Then we discovered bully hays rum! 72% Rum, 28% water! 11 bucks a bottle. Then Dime drank 2 and a half bottles in one night and was ill :(

    Then my buddy and i moved to a box of beer each and a hip flask each of beam. We were 16. We would rock up to a party. Take a sit. Knock back 2 dozen beers each then start mingling :D while sipping straight beam.

    The good ole days in west auckland! im pretty sure id die i drank 24 beers now.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Hair Removal Specialist (74 comments) says:

    Hamnida, surprised at your attitude about “fresh German beer”. Surely you are breaking the socialist code of conduct by encouraging consumption of “fresh German Beer” over consumption of kiwi made products such as “Quality Cody’s” and “Wonderful Woodies”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Grendel (951 comments) says:

    actually hanmnidiot it shows that the free market works perfectly. it shows that given the choice between being a pretentious wanker like you and drinking ‘fresh’ german beer, or having a pre mixed drink in a bottle, some people choose to drink the pre mixed and pretentious wankers can choose whatever they like and look down as much as they like on the others.

    thats perfect free market.

    what you meant to say, this is why i dont like the free market, people get to do what they want, not what i want to tell them.

    but you avoiding the point.

    you have stated that RTDs have no purpose but fresh german beer does.

    So again:
    >
    Define ‘legitimate purpose’ and then show objectively how one form of alcohol has none and one does. and then show how that objectively is a practical solution, but first highlight the objective problem that banning one kind of alcohol will somehow fix.
    >

    then explain to my coeliac friends how they have to drink german beer and not RTDs.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    There is a myriad of microbreweries in New Zealand using traditional German methods.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. Grendel (951 comments) says:

    answer the question ham.

    BTW for everyone else, is anyone else surprised that ham has managed to make himself look like an even bigger prat than usual.

    i mean his blithering on has shown him up to be a muppet most days, but today i feel that his snobbery has shown him up to even greater levels of dickheadedness than anyone could have expected. i am not often surprised by the stupidity and outright wankerism of the hardleft, but this one got me.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. dime (9,430 comments) says:

    lmao @ hamnida – was to engage in debate hahaha

    why dont you just admit that youre full of shit and jealous of rich people. then move on with your life and try and earn what is missing :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. Elaycee (4,301 comments) says:

    Hamfisted: Thanks for proving (again) that you’re a total stalk.

    If it is brewed in New Zealand, it is NOT ‘fresh German beer’. If its made by a microbrewery here, it may be fresh, German style beer but never ‘fresh German beer’.

    Sort your shit out.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I didn’t think there was a serious question.

    Are you Neolibs honestly trying to say RTDs are better for people than fresh German beer?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Zapper (926 comments) says:

    That was North Korea wasn’t it?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    Making stale Weaselpiss the only available alcoholic beverage would reduce a lot of excess drinking.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    I suspect that ‘fresh German beer’ is yet another made up term.

    ie ‘German Beer! by it Fresh!

    for goodness sake, when was the last time you went out and bought your beer stale?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. Hair Removal Specialist (74 comments) says:

    Hamnida, based on your logic, out of a selection of items that fulfill the same need or want, the government should ban those which are worse for people and only allow those which are better for people. So because steak is worse for people than a banana, the government should ban steak. Because that car is safer than my car, the government should ban my car.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    Anyway I brew my own. Anyone who knows anything about beer will know it ain’t no good when it’s ‘fresh’.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. dime (9,430 comments) says:

    Hamnida – trying to change the argument to something you think you can win?

    sad.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. dubya (214 comments) says:

    How can beer be ‘fresh’? It is fermented!

    Now, are they better for people?

    Tuatara brand beers have 150-195 calories per serve (I picked a mid range ‘craft beer’ – please let me know if that brand is ‘fresh’ enough would you Hamnida?)
    A ‘Vodka Cruiser’ has 175 calories per serve for regular flavours, and 76 for the sugar-free version.

    Not much in it, really.

    One could argue that the carrot that became lodged in Hamnida’s arse whilst drinking his ‘Fresh German Beer’ counts as healthy dietary fibre, though.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. Grendel (951 comments) says:

    better in what way Ham?

    my coeliac friends will get extremely sick drinking regular beer, so in their case yes, RTds are better for them. i am ignoring your pathetic attempt to label them as toxic.

    again, answer the question, dont be a weasel.

    >
    Define ‘legitimate purpose’ and then show objectively how one form of alcohol has none and one does. and then show how that objectively is a practical solution, but first highlight the objective problem that banning one kind of alcohol will somehow fix.
    >

    you are the one that claimed RTDs had ‘no legitimate purpose’ and then called on everyone to drink ‘fresh’ german beer, which i can only conclude means you beleive that ‘fresh’ german beer has a legitimate purpose.

    so as above, explain the objective legitimate purpose of german beer, and then the objective no purpose of RTDs.

    i have already shown how they both have purpose, now its your turn to show your point. so its time Ham, nut up or shut up.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    Pete George

    Surely you’re not suggesting that Leopard Lager should be reinflicted on innocent New Zealanders. :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. bhudson (4,734 comments) says:

    For example, replacing drinking RTDs in carparks with German style Beerfests.

    Hamnida, I’m not sure that the Kiwis (and Aussies) have the best of reputations at Oktoberfest

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. hmmokrightitis (1,508 comments) says:

    As one of the token darkies around here, ham, I can honestly say your a half decent troll. Youve managed to call me a racist, NOT pay up on a bet, and wank on about german beer. This bro would happily sink decent Epic or Mikes IPA, or the long standing fav of this nigger, Hallertau Stuntman or at a pinch, the Maximus, but the Imperial is my preferred.

    Cant beat it after a 12 hour run. Bottle of Stuntman with a feed of venion sausages. My last ex, some 20 years younger than me, would prefer sitting on the RTD’s (I used to refer to them as the STD’s) but then she was a child.

    You’d have got on with her ham. She was a troll when drunk AND sober.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    This is possibly the most fun I’ve had all day – keep ‘em coming guys!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. RRM (9,453 comments) says:

    DPF:
    Research (a phone poll, two point of sale surveys and eight focus groups) Curia did for Independent Liquor left me in no doubt that the impact of trying to ban RTDs over 5% would be a significant substitution effect, with many people going from say 8% RTDs to (on average) 13% self-mixes.

    You say that as though getting kids to move from shitty RTDs onto proper drinks is a BAD thing??

    Besides – won’t teenagers keep drinking until they’re maggotted, regardless of whether they choose RTDs or self-mixed rocket fuel?
    :???: I’m confused DPF… please help me to understand this madness.

    [DPF: Actually what we found in the focus groups, is that many drinkers want to get "shiny" or "drunk" but not "wasted". They said they like RTDs as they are a fixed quantity - ie they know six 8% RTDs will get them to their desired level of drunkedness, so to speak. That may be more than public health officials want, but leaves them still able to act safely. However if self-mixing spirits, you often end up going beyond "drunk" to "wasted" because you don't know how much you have drunk]

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    And we come full circle. . .

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    nasska – talking of German, remember Bavarian?

    When I lived in Auckland a long time ago we used to sometimes go to a Leopard bar because there were too many arguments over going to a Lion Red pub or a DB pub.

    Those were the days of little choice and much drunkeness. Only one of those things has changed.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Hair Removal Specialist (74 comments) says:

    Hamnida?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. RRM (9,453 comments) says:

    hmmokrightitis:
    …Hallertau Stuntman…

    Far out.

    I had one of those once, and I felt like I had achieved something, but no-one came out to applaud or pin a medal on my chest so I couldn’t really see any point in repeating the exercise, it certainly wasn’t a beer I enjoyed.

    That stuff’s nasty; full respect to anyone that sees those as a favourite beer!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    PG

    I can remember Bavarian & it was pretty bloody awful. Those were the easily forgettable days when the major breweries thought that designing a new name & label to hide the old muck behind it would justify the next round of price increases. Booze barns were pretty bad wherever they were sited & no matter what sludge came out of the taps.

    Fortunately I wasted my life in country pubs instead.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. hmmokrightitis (1,508 comments) says:

    RRM, Imperial IPA is not for the faint hearted. And as the bottle states, its not for the poor. At close to $20 a bottle, its saved for rare occasions in my house. Like Saturday nights :)

    But I take your point, its not everyone’s cuppa. After a 12 hour run and a bottle of that and Im anyones really :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    …”After a 12 hour run and a bottle of that and Im anyones really”…..

    The queue would reach the letterbox I’m sure! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. hmmokrightitis (1,508 comments) says:

    nasska, our letterbox is close to a kilometer from the house. Im good, but not that good :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    nasska – I experienced both town and country. Many country pubs were also bought by the breweries but ignored the one brand only rule that city barns had to follow. I couldn’t drink DB, something about it my system objected too.

    In the south we had DB, Lion (Brown), and Speights, (and Bavarian for a while but I wasn’t drunk much). And in those days Speights was shunned by the young, regarded as ‘old man’s beer’. Good to take to parties because it wouldn’t get pinched.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Hair Removal Specialist (74 comments) says:

    FWIW I enjoy having a large selection of alcoholic beverages available for sipping, drinking, slurping, sculling, funneling or whatever other means of consumption are available (Tequila Hard Man Shot anyone?). Anyone like Hamnida who wants to restrict these choices simply has no clue about how to enjoy life and, as a result, want to rain on everyone else’s parade. Also, the fact that these reforms were even a possibility with our national government is very disappointing.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    PG

    All the tied pubs were effectively limited to one or the other of the two big brands. Those owned & leased out by Dominion Breweries were really up against it as they were only allowed to spend 5% of their buyup on competitors’ products. If they had a younger clientele this was barely enough to keep sufficient Steinlager in the fridges.

    For all that the Wairarapa was solid DB country & the only way NZ Breweries even retained a foot in the door was doing sweetheart deals with sports clubs.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. wat dabney (3,671 comments) says:

    I reckon just ban RTDs. They look ugly, target immature drinkers, and add no value to society.

    Ah, “society.”

    It is the Left’s firm position that individual rights can be safely ignored in their entirety, simply by claiming to be acting for the good of society.

    Most of the great evils of the last century were performed by people who made that argument.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. Steve (North Shore) (4,499 comments) says:

    Hamnida,
    “If you ban me from New Zealand, I’ll have to go back to Korea.”
    Don’t let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.

    The problem is not RTDs or whatever form the alcohol comes in; it is the drinker’s attitude. When they make a jerk out of themselves hit them hard – two days in the hinaki, with water only. Listen to the pussies cry then

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I note no one has been able to dispute the fact that fresh beer is a million times better than trashy RTDs.

    [DPF: Stop trolling]

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Zapper (926 comments) says:

    Your argument is that something should be banned because there is something better?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. wat dabney (3,671 comments) says:

    I rather think the argument is that anything Hamnida disapproves of should be banned.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. Zapper (926 comments) says:

    Ban everything the socialists don’t like, and pay everyone the same regardless of skills or effort. Sounds like paradise, why has no-one tried this?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    Steve

    Agreed that doesn’t matter what form the alcohol comes in. The factors that influence behaviour are the total pure alcohol imbibed, the time taken to consume it, consumption (or not) of food & probably individual tolerance.

    Most of the problem stems from the socialist crap that excuses people for their actions & removes effective sanctions. Not that long ago people “drunk & disorderly in a public place” weren’t taken home or to hospitals so that they could make arseholes of themselves.

    Instead it would be a short ride in a police car & an overnight stay in the “drunk tank” followed the next morning by a remand in front of a JP, bail of about $5 & a hell of a hangover. The memories of a night spent with twenty odd other pissing & spewing abusive drunks were usually lasting ones & people once so accommodated were known to adopt radically different behaviour patterns.

    Kick the bleeding heart Mumsies for touch & reopen the drunk tanks!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. Steve (North Shore) (4,499 comments) says:

    “The memories of a night spent with twenty odd other pissing & spewing abusive drunks were usually lasting ones & people once so accommodated were known to adopt radically different behaviour patterns.”

    Hey that was in the ‘crash tent’ at Sweetwaters 1979. There were more like 500. I only lasted two hours then fucked off down by the river :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    Amnesia – We’ve all moved on actually.

    I note you haven’t grasped that no one is taken in a) by your use of an invented term ‘German fresh beer’ (if you knew anything about beer you might have cited Belgian or Czechoslovakian) as a description of something ‘superior’ to RTBs b) your apparent ignorance about what beer is like when it is actually ‘fresh’ (ie it is fermented and when ‘fresh’ lacks bubbles c) your inability to qualify how your subjective viewpoint about a product has qualified you as sole judge about how a consumable item is ‘adding value to society’ and d) the fact that you seem to be the only one in this discussion who appears painfully and almost embarrassingly unaware that you don’t seem to have a clue what you re talking about.

    eye thenkyu.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    Steve

    I bet it beat the hell out of a night at Auckland Central. :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. Steve (North Shore) (4,499 comments) says:

    Would not know about Auckland Central nasska. I behave myself

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. Steve (North Shore) (4,499 comments) says:

    The Govt could go all socialist and make the alcahol manufacturers and retailers pay for the cleanup that the disfuctional dropkicks cause. That would put the price up and penalise the person who likes a tipple or a few beers.
    Hang about, the Govt already gets enough tax to spend on silly ideas.

    Penalise the arseholes who drink and damage, hit them hard!!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    You Neolibs are too much for me.

    The other day you come out with the “Obama wasn’t born in the U.S.A” stuff and now you are trying to argue that RTDs are good?

    What are you on? RTDs are crap.

    With so much good wine and beer in New Zealand, why drink RTDs?

    If you taxed them, say an extra $20 or 500% per standard drink, all the retards would be forced to swap to real drinks like fresh German style beer.

    Think about it? What is a bogan going to do? Pay $50 for two 330 ml Codys or the same amount for a 40 oz Jack Daniels and bottle of cloa?

    What is the drunk teenager going to do? $20 for six nice craft beers or the same amount for one Demonz (a type of RTD)?

    The fact people currently consume RTDs is just a market error.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Hair Removal Specialist (74 comments) says:

    Hamnida – you are a classic. Your last post made me laugh out loud. Pure brilliance!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Fresh beer – Water, hops and malt.

    Codys RTD – Cheap bourbon, carbonated water, sugar (sucrose or high-fructose corn syrup depending on country of origin)
    caffeine, phosphoric acid, caramel color (E150d), natural flavorings[46].

    I know what I’d prefer to drink.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    Hamnida

    I can’t easily follow your argument. RTDs have a stated amount of alcohol in them….say 5 – 8%. Therefore if you drank a 330ml RTD you have imbibed about 20 ml of pure alcohol, the same as a 500ml (pint) handle of 4% beer & close to a double nip of spirits…..roughly the same quantity…roughly the same effect.

    You obviously don’t think a great deal of RTDs or those who drink them but they are just another vehicle for moving alcohol from inside a bottle to inside a person.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Come on nasska – do you really like RTDs? They look really ugly, are consumed by idiots, and prevent the sale of higher quality, locally made wine and beer.

    I would be much happier if RTDs weren’t in New Zealand.

    Even though the alcohol percentages can be similar, RTDs are full of sugar, calories, preservatives and artificial colouring. Beer and wine is more natural and therefore healthier.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. kowtow (7,625 comments) says:

    ham an eggs wants to promote rape with German style drinking.

    http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/09/21/1064082870777.html?from=storyrhs

    As no onee lse has done it,I’m bringing God into this. If you want to be a beer snob then drink Belgian Trappist beer. Nassska ,dvm and co can swallow hard on it knowing they’re supporting the good works of Him upstairs. :)

    http://www.chimay.com/en/trappist-beers.html?IDC=286

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    Hamnida

    I haven’t drunk an RTD for about ten years but I remember that they tasted vile…so sweet as to be nearly syrup. I also concur that most of the people who drink them stand on a rung of the evolutionary ladder that is well south of average. I also see a crafted brew as far superior to a concoction thrown together in a mad scientist lab.

    All of which doesn’t matter a stuff because it is not & should not be your or my decision what people drink. It is their choice…not ours!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    kowtow

    …”can swallow hard on it knowing they’re supporting the good works of Him upstairs”…..

    Nice to know that even us nonbelievers can do our bit for the Big Guy Upstairs. :)

    Alas, you left it a little late….I’m a dry alkie & even after ten years off the sauce helping out would be a smidgeon risky. I’ll have to ask you to cover for me.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. graham (2,215 comments) says:

    nasska at 8:55 pm:

    All of which doesn’t matter a stuff because it is not & should not be your or my decision what people drink. It is their choice…not ours!

    Got it in one.

    I have never drunk an RTD. Not once. But does that mean I’m going to get all snobbish, and look down on people who do choose to drink it? Uh-uh.

    It’s just another alcoholic drink. That’s it. Some people prefer beer, some prefer wine, some prefer scotch, some liquers. It’s different tastes. I like wine, but can’t stand dessert wine. Does that mean people who do drink dessert wine are idiots? Of course not.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    True graham. I prefer anything that contains ethanol so never get snobbish with pissheads of any description! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    “I’m a dry alkie”

    Always wondered why you still talked sense after 9.30pm nasska! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    JB

    I didn’t realise that I did! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    You don’t. It just seems that way to a pisshead like me! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    Okay! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. Grendel (951 comments) says:

    what we are seeing is classic left tactics.

    1, make dubious claim – x alcohol has no legitimate purpose in society, whereas y alcohol does.

    2, get questioned on this and asked to prove it.

    3, deflect, distract, try and change initial claim, attack questioners and make assumptions about what you think their views are. also quietly fix the earlier cockup you made and hope noone notices (fresh german beer becomes german style beer)

    4, get questioned again

    5, do not answer again, continue being a dick.

    So now haminidiot has all but admitted he cannot give any objective definition of the legitimate purpose of one alcohol over another. he has now resorted to 1) making assumptions about other peoples subjective views on on the the various types, and 2) showing up what a pretentious wanker he his by sneering at those who dont choose what he does.

    so again hamidiot i ask you:

    >
    Define ‘legitimate purpose’ and then show objectively how one form of alcohol (RTDs) has none and one does (‘fresh’ german beer). and then show how that objectively is a practical solution, but first highlight the objective problem that banning one kind of alcohol will somehow fix.
    >

    or you could just admit you are a trolling weaselly little statist, as well as a pretentious wanker who looks down on those who dont drink what you do and also wants to control what others drink.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Hamineggs isn’t a proper drinker. If he was he wouldn’t care what it was as long as there was enough of it. :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. Anthony (768 comments) says:

    I’ve occasionally bought RTDs. Gin with lime and soda is quite nice and not sure how it would do me more harm than a bottle of beer.

    I wouldn’t mind a smallish tax increase on alcohol so there weren’t any of the really cheap beer specials like 15 Ranfurly cans for $18 or whatever.

    Probably would be best to end alcohol being advertised on TV because I’m sure it does encourage consumption and glorify its image.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. graham (2,215 comments) says:

    “RTDs serve no purpose.”

    Indeed. Neither, if you think that way, does beer. Or wine, spirits, and liqeurs. Let’s ban them all.

    Pubs obviously don’t serve any “legitimate purpose”, and with no alcohol to sell, they can be banned too.

    Takeaways, many would argue, serve no legitimate purpose – they just make you fat. Let’s ban Burger King, Wendys, Maccas, Oporto, Nandos, fish and chip shops, the lot.

    Hard to see that sports serve any “legitimate purpose”, really. People just running around, and (gasp!) having fun. But what’s the point, really? Ban rugby. Bye bye, All Blacks. And ban golf, football, cricket, athletics, the works.

    Do many of the shows on TV serve any “legitimate purpose”? Comedy shows, home renovation programs, Antiques Roadshow? What’s the “legitimate purpose”? Nup – ban them all. Of course there’s no sport any more (banned, as it serves no “legitimate purpose”), so no sports programs. All TV shall be just news and educational programs.

    Parties? “Legitimate purpose”? Don’t make me laugh – people just talking to each other and socialising. Right – parties are outlawed.

    Anything else you’d like to ban, Hamnida? Y’know, things that serve no “legitimate purpose”?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I believe that I have construed a valid argument that fresh beer is better than RTDs.

    By fresh, I don’t mean you drink it they day after fermentation starts. I do mean it is brewed for three to five weeks, placed in kegs, and then transferred to pubs, bars and festivals. By fresh I mean it (the beer) doesn’t spend eight weeks on a ship or six weeks on a supermarket shelf.

    My arguments for beer and against RTDs included:

    1. The ingredients – Water, hops and malt v a toxic and artificial combination of ‘who knows what’.
    2. Where people drink the two products – classy pubs and bars plus festivals v car parks and teenage parties.
    3. The type of people who drink fresh micro brewery beer v who drinks RTDs.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. Grendel (951 comments) says:

    stop changing the subject ham, your original position had nothing to do with a scale of which alcohol is better than other alcohol (which may be true but irrelevant).

    your original position was that RTDS had not legitimate purpose, but somehow german beer does. your answers have attempted to redefine the question as to which is the better alcohol, which is still subjective, and not your original position.

    so again hamidiot i ask you:

    >
    Define ‘legitimate purpose’ and then show objectively how one form of alcohol (RTDs) has none and one does (‘fresh’ german beer). and then show how that objectively is a practical solution, but first highlight the objective problem that banning one kind of alcohol will somehow fix.
    >

    or you could just admit you are a trolling weaselly little statist, as well as a pretentious wanker who looks down on those who dont drink what you do and also wants to control what others drink.

    also as a counter to your ‘arguments’ for beer and against RTD

    1. The ingredients – Water, hops and malt v a toxic and artificial combination of ‘who knows what’.

    you are reaching, and using hyperbole. prove that the ingredients of RTDS are ‘toxic’. this is just your personal bias showing.

    2. Where people drink the two products – classy pubs and bars plus festivals v car parks and teenage parties.

    again, hyperbole, and a pretentious wanker. plenty of pubs and bars serve RTDS, and i bet you can find people drinking beer in carparks and teenage parties. also define ‘classy’ pub. you cannot, and if they let you in they certainly are not likely to be.
    3. The type of people who drink fresh micro brewery beer v who drinks RTDs.

    here you are being a pretentious wanker again.

    really your ‘argument’ boils down to this: Ham is a pretentious wanker who likes expensive poncy beer and sneers at those who drink or sell RTDs and the ingredients.

    but all of this is a smokescreen coverign up the fact that its day two and you still have yet to explain to anyone the objective argument showing the lack of legitimate purpose for one type of alcohol and the presence of it for another.

    however you have shown time and time again how much of a pretentious fuckwit you are, so at least you have some consistency.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. Elaycee (4,301 comments) says:

    Hamfisted:

    The ingredients – Water, hops and malt…

    If you really believe that this is the ingredient list of your ‘fresh, German style’ beer, then you may be interested in a bridge I have for sale.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. Paulus (2,501 comments) says:

    It is not the drinking – it is the progressive culture pervading regarding drinking, and the after effects.
    Freedom of expression has a price.
    Jack is as good as Jill, and can get pissed as fast as Jack – that is our new Society.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. graham (2,215 comments) says:

    Grendel at 9:30 am:

    Quite right – Hamnida’s very first comment in this thread was:

    I reckon just ban RTDs. They look ugly, target immature drinkers, and add no value to society.

    So as per my post at 7:30, this obviously means that Hamnida would have us ban beer, wine, spirits, liqeurs, pubs, Burger King, Wendys, Maccas, Oporto, Nandos, fish and chip shops, all sports, all TV shows other than news and educational programs, parties … because it can be argued that none of them actually serve a “legitimate purpose”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Graham – I would keep all those things, especially fish and chips, and beer.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. graham (2,215 comments) says:

    Why?

    To use your own words, they “add no value to society.”

    So ban them.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Fish – good for you. Chips – tasty and OK in moderation. Beer – promotes healthy drinking choices.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  91. Northland Wahine (648 comments) says:

    Rtds are made for nights like these…

    Hellish week at work, and the boy is at his dads… Kick back with a pizza, gratuitous violence in the form of a dvd, and a four pack of JD’s…

    Cheers.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  92. graham (2,215 comments) says:

    Fish – deep fried in batter – good for you? Really?

    Beer ‘promotes healthy drinking choices’? Ummm, really?

    Give it up Hamnida. Just admit that you’re wrong.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.