AUSA President and Israel

September 10th, 2012 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Students for Justice in Palestine has Facebooked:

In July, the AUSA President took a ten day trip to visit illegal Israeli settlements in occupied Palestine. The trip was funded by the Israeli government which targeted two prominent young leaders from both young labour and young Nats and our AUSA president.

Students for Justice in Palestine call for an official apology from the President of our Students’ Association, Arena Williams, for her disregard for human rights, for visiting an apartheid country under an international boycott, for being unfair and bias on such a contentious issue, for not representing or consulting with students, for not adequately addressing student concerns after they had been raised directly with her, for not being direct, transparent or inclusive and for her disregard for New Zealand’s long history of social justice, especially since AUSA stood up against South African apartheid in the 80′s by supporting the international boycott movement.

Say NO to Israeli apartheid and NO to the normalisation of Israeli occupation. Instead of normalising relations with Israel we need to look towards the student unions worldwide who have officially recognised BDS policies as part of their constitutions.

Censure the AUSA President’s trip to apartheid-Israel.

Wednesday 1pm Quad.

I believe AUSA is better served by focusing on student welfare and education, rather than the Middle East.

However just like other employees, student presidents can take leave. And I see nothing wrong with people visiting Israel, as a guest of their Government. In fact I have done it myself. That doesn’t mean you automatically agree with everything Israel does. But it actually allows you an opportunity to learn more about their perspective, and debate issues and behaviour with them.

I’ve also been to Iran. That doesn’t mean I endorse their Government. What was good about Iran was meeting so many lovely Iranians, and realising that we should avoid conflating a country with a Government.

Tags: Arena Williams, AUSA, Israel

This entry was posted on Monday, September 10th, 2012 at 9:00 am and is filed under International Politics, NZ Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Pinging is currently not allowed.

48 Responses to “AUSA President and Israel”

scrubone (2,321) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 9:05 am
So in this case the “justice” in the title is ironic.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Dave Mann (988) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 9:08 am
Yes David, you make a very good point about not judging a people by its government.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Manolo (9,953) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 9:17 am
A future Labour “leader” in the making!
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Lance (1,946) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 9:18 am
But but but….
The venal bitter factless hatred towards Israel must be maintained at all costs. God forbid someone actually goes there and finds out there is a mountain of horseshit feeding this prejudice.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Ryan Sproull (5,585) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 9:18 am
I’ve also been to Iran. That doesn’t mean I endorse their Government.

Assuming the information you quote is accurate, for your trip to be analogous, you would have to have been invited and paid for by an Iranian Government-funded organisation who also invited two other prominent New Zealand bloggers.

That might raise some eyebrows.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
eazye(1) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 9:34 am
Students for Justice in Palestine…..

Another leftist antisemitic bunch trying to stop any differing opinions.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
mavxp (436) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 9:49 am
Israel probably wants people to see things first hand rather than rely on propaganda and hyperbole in the online media surrounding these issues. Makes sense.

Israel’s survival depends on a *very* narrow strip of land. Some of their more ardent supporters are willing to live ‘in harms way’ to protect that narrow strip from foreign invaders (e.g. Syria who are still in a State of War with Israel). Unfortunately this inflames the tensions, as this *is* displacing Palestinians – who respond with suicide bombers targeted at civilians (school busses, movie theatres, cafes that sort of thing) – so Israel builds a wall, and so it goes on.

Ideally an ‘Israel’ and a ‘Palestine’ state would not be necessary, and they could all live happily together in sweetness and love and mutual understanding in a joint, secular ‘Levant’ state; make Intel chips and provide great summer holidays for French tourists. However like any relationship it requires trust to work, and there is no trust between these peoples. So, the majority want ‘divorce’ -separate states. And like any embittered divorced couple they squabble over the settlement of the terms of their divorce. People around the world take sides and listen to one sides version of what “he said, she said”, and nothing gets resolved.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
my 2 cents (1,085) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 9:59 am
If the Palestinians put down their guns there’d be no war.
If Israelis put down theirs, there’d be no Israel.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
IHStewart (388) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 10:02 am
Good on the AUSA students.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129653751976660.html
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
LabourDoesntWork (240) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 10:04 am
T F is Israeli apartheid?? There’s 1.2 million Arabs that are Israelis. Meanwhile, Jews can’t even set foot in Saudi Arabia (not that they’d want to–it’s a shithole); and, Iran murders its own citizens.

Since Israel stood on its own feet as a leading capitalist nation the left has been against it. Strange priorities the left has. Maybe I’ll try it–sounds rather fun. Well, gotta go now: I have a bulldozer to lie down in front of and excuses to make for black stone kissing nazis who kill their own citizens..
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Ryan Sproull (5,585) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 10:07 am
Good on the AUSA students.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/09/20129653751976660.html

Did the Israeli tank blow itself up to kill those civilians?

Only suicide-bombings count, IHStewart. I know it’s been four years since the last one, but they’re much more memorable than this “tank shooting civilians” nonsense.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Subway (13) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 10:11 am
Its not strictly the same but there was a parliamentary trip around the same time, its ambiguous who paid for the trip as well…
http://www.nzdoctor.co.nz/un-doctored/2012/may-2012/08/mps%E2%80%99-friendship-group-travelling-to-israelmiddle-east.aspx
I wonder if SJP insisted on the MP’s kowtowing to their beliefs?
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
LabourDoesntWork (240) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 10:14 am
Someone mention suicide bombing? The retarded left never met a suicidebombing inventing, Soviet-sponsored, phony Palestinian from Egypt they didn’t give ample credibility to yet, even if he dragged everyone through an obviously phony peace process whilst pledging, in Arabic, to throw all the Jews into the sea (i.e. Yasser Arafat).

Now write out 1,000,000 times: Palestinian Arabs must not fire rockets at Israeli civilians.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Ryan Sproull (5,585) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 10:17 am
Now write out 1,000,000 times: Palestinian Arabs must not fire rockets at Israeli civilians.

Mm, I agree. They shouldn’t.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
my 2 cents (1,085) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 10:22 am
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/09/mob_of_arab_men_attacks_israeli_village.html

It will never stop until Israel is destroyed, Just read the Koran for yourself.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
PaulL (5,198) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 10:31 am
The illegal settlements are a festering sore in the relationship between Israel and the Arab governments. Israel has a right to exist, and many of the actions it takes in the name of defence have few other good options. The settlements, however, are illegal under both Israeli and international law. The failure to do something about them is giving the Palestinians and others a rallying point for their contention that Israel is behaving illegally. Whilst it remains true that the Israeli govt would fall without the support of the far right, that doesn’t make it OK to turn a blind eye to these.

In terms of the AUSA president, if they have ambitions to be in politics in future (most of them do) then now is a great time to start learning some judgement about the consequences of your actions. This is absolutely what student politics should be about – so now they need to stand up for their actions.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Shunda barunda (2,729) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 10:47 am
And the confusion of the liberal anti deity religious continues.

Issues like this, gay marriage, and other “perceived” injustices all come from the same leftist religious elite. It is a religion without a deity, but it is a religion all the same because “religious” is the only fitting description of their behavior and attitudes.

These issues are all about oughts and ought nots, not rational debate, not reasonable debate, actually, no debate whatsoever.

You accept the liberal elites opinions or you can rot in hell.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
F E Smith (2,543) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 10:53 am
Well said, eazye at 9.34am and my2cents at 9.59am. Both very good comments.

It is sickening how anti-semitism is once more becoming fashionable, especially among leftists who proclaim themselves to be so ‘tolerant’.

PaulL, I am sure that Egypt and Jordan would like to have their territory back, but considering that they lost it by going to war with Israel with the stated aim of wiping that country off the map, I really don’t have sympathy for them. If the Palestinian Arabs want to have their own country (which they rejected in 1947), then perhaps they should begin to act like a civilised people, rather than a murderous one.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Brian Smaller (3,835) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 10:53 am
These students are fucking morons. Israel is an apartheid regime? Really? Israeli citizens of every race, creed, colour and sexual orientation are allowed to vote, shop, live and do whatever the fuck they want. These trendy little leftie twits wouldn’t know apartheid if it jumped up and bite them.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
F E Smith (2,543) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 11:10 am
But, Brian, don’t you remember? The South African regime under Apartheid was famous for having black Africans at every level of government, including the judiciary, and even having one as acting President for a short time…

Up next, the lefty kiddies will advance the argument that Stalin was actually a fascist.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Brian Smaller (3,835) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 11:12 am
The problems there are nothing to do with Israel and Arab countries, building houses or walls. If Israel were to cease to exist tomorrow, the Arabs would still seek to slaughter the Jews. They want to exterminate the decendants of apes and pigs.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
alloytoo (164) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 11:14 am
Students for Justice in Palestine appear to understand very little about apartheid, and even less about Justice.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
my 2 cents (1,085) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 11:20 am
PaulL
Firstly, there was already a two state solution for the Arabs.
It was Jordan.

Secondly, the so called West Bank or Judea, Samaria was under Ottoman 400yr rule till 1948, then overun by Jordan in the 1948 war until 1967 when Israel liberated it from Jordan as spoils from the 1967 war. It was never anyones territory to steal.

It is not illegal for Israel to incorporate it into Israel proper as so called International law gives that right if Israel’s citizens security can’t be guaranteed by giving it up.

Israels problem came in that she didn’t immediately annex it when it became apparent there would be no safety in handing it over and the UN were not going to be impartial in the matter.

The assault against Israel carries on and from her so called friends too.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/the_eradication_of_israel.html
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/relying_on_us_intelligence.html
http://www.americanthinker.com/2012/09/slugging_it_out_against_israel.html
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Lance (1,946) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 11:22 am
@Brain
In Israel I saw Jews protesting against the govt for not making peace with the Arabs and nobody bothering them, it was a secular society, you could freely practice whatever religion you want…. you could even buy bacon (although bloody expensive and labelled ‘desert chicken’).
Just like the Arab countries around them.. no … wait.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
kowtow (4,459) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 11:30 am
The anti Israel movement is big ,particularly on the left. We seem to hear very little about it here in NZ. Perhaps because we don’t have a large Musselman population (yet)( thank goodness)

There are important principles at stake here and it is very much a part of the progressive/left/Islamic alliance. As such it should be highlighted and resisted .

An example comes from Al Jazeera (of course)

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/09/20129971339654827.html
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Tom Jackson (596) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 12:25 pm
“Israel’s survival depends on a *very* narrow strip of land.”

Nonsense. Israel has operational nuclear weapons. The Israeli government has made it absolutely clear that these would be used if it looked like Israel would be overrun by enemy forces. Israel could be 200m wide at its narrowest point, and still no country would dare invade it.

The Israeli military also possesses absolute conventional dominance over every single rival state (states that it has soundly beaten in three wars when it was weaker in relative terms than it is today). None of the states abutting Israel have the slightest interest in attempting another invasion, and the Hezbollah are incapable of doing so.

“T F is Israeli apartheid?? There’s 1.2 million Arabs that are Israelis.”

Are you being deliberately myopic? The 3-4 million Palestinians in the occupied territories (now arguably down a bit, since Gaza is sort of independent, but there are millions in the West Bank) have no vote, even though they are subject to the will of the Israeli government. It’s not because of where they live, because the Jewish settlers who also live in the West Bank have full political rights.

There has been a long standing debate in Israel about the “demographic problem”, which is that, although Israel can handle the million or so Israeli Arab citizens, it cannot assimilate the rest of those living in Israeli occupied territory without ceding to the Arabs a near majority or an absolute majority, which would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state. That is why the issue of the occupied territories is so fraught. I’m not sure that “apartheid” is really the correct term, since the situation in South Africa was not quite analogous, but it is clear that Palestinians in the occupied territories are denied rights that their Jewish neighbours have in order to maintain Israel as a Jewish state.

Now imagine if the Maori population in NZ boomed, and we started placing restrictions on Maori voters because we didn’t want a Maori majority (Alas, I can imagine some people I know favouring that). It’s more like that in Israel, and about as objectionable.

All this would be solved if Israeli politics wasn’t held hostage by the fundamentalist nutters who want to colonize the West Bank (the Israelis I know detest them as much as they detest the Palestinians).

“Israels problem came in that she didn’t immediately annex it when it became apparent there would be no safety in handing it over and the UN were not going to be impartial in the matter.”

They had good reason not to do this, because the residents of the area could not be forcibly removed (that’s a crime against humanity) and if the occupied territories were part of Israel proper, then the Arab inhabitants of those areas would have good reason to demand one person one vote, and that would mean the end of Israel as a Jewish state.

It’s like this. Israel wants: (a) to be a Jewish State; (b) to be a genuine democracy; and (c) to have the West Bank as part of Israel proper. It so happens that they can have at most two out of three.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Lance (1,946) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 12:30 pm
And the award for the worst straw man argument in history goes to (drum roll)………

Tom Jackson
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Tom Jackson (596) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 12:31 pm
“The anti Israel movement is big ,particularly on the left. We seem to hear very little about it here in NZ.”

One reason is that, in NZ, we generally have an open and fair discussion about these issues. Our news media tends also to be quite fair in comparison with some other countries. This means that people don’t get so fired up about it.

For example: when Israel does something controversial that creates a political stir on campus, in NZ you don’t get massive, expensive advertising billboards outside the university gates asking you to report lecturers who express anti-Israel views to a phone number, which turned out to be affiliated with a Jewish advocacy organisation (I actually saw these – I couldn’t quite believe what I was seeing at first).
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Tom Jackson (596) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 12:34 pm
“And the award for the worst straw man argument in history goes to (drum roll)…”

If you have no arguments, you won’t get any respect. Now go play in the sandpit with the other toddlers.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
PaulL (5,198) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 12:36 pm
No disagreement that Israel has significant security concerns, nor that much of that territory was won in wars that Israel didn’t initiate. But pointing to those things is obfuscation.

Israel has law that says no new settlements in key areas. All international resolution paths rely on a land swap, and these settlements are generally intended to make that land swap impossible. It’s blatantly obvious that they should not be permitted, and Israel is turning a blind eye. That is a problem. Pointing to other problems elsewhere is not going to change that.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Lance (1,946) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 12:48 pm
@Tom
“If you have no arguments, you won’t get any respect”

Neither do you

FFS “Now imagine if the Maori population in NZ boomed, and we started placing restrictions on Maori voters….”

What a fucking ridiculous line.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
alloytoo (164) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 12:57 pm
@Tom Jackson.

No amount of obfuscation is going to cloud the basic facts.

There are 1.2 Million Arab Israelis who enjoy western style democracy do so because they are (by choice, or the choice of their forefathers) Israeli citizens.

The however many million Palestinians are not Israeli citizens and hence do not enjoy the rights and freedoms of western style democracy.

Jewish settlers who also live in the West Bank have full political rights in Israel, they do not enjoy any such rights in respect of any type of Palistinian authority.

The apartheid label is spurious, Palestinians were never stripped of their Israeli citizenship on the basis of their ethnicity, they never had it.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
scrubone (2,321) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 12:59 pm
Israel could be 200m wide at its narrowest point, and still no country would dare invade it.

Well, there is also the fact that they’ve embarassed every army that’s tried, including the 7 armies who tried it the day after they were founded.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
scrubone (2,321) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 1:00 pm
If settlements were really a barrier to the peace process, Gaza would be the most pleaceful place in the area.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
F E Smith (2,543) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 1:06 pm
Tom Jackson,

In Australia, non-citizens are unable to vote. Are you arguing that it is unlawful for a sovereign nation to allow only citizens to vote in that nation’s elections? Or are you suggesting that Australia has ‘issues’?

Of course, if we look at how Jews are treated in Palestinian Authority territory then we can see just how one people should treat another…

PaulL,

the World has a weird approach to land swaps. The PA is the obstinate party, but Israel gets the blame. Even more strange, the Arabs appear to be entitled to receive back the land that they lost as a result of warfare, the last one (Yom Kippur) initiated by them, and the one before conducted on a pre-emptive basis. What is the bet that if the Arabs had succeeded in defeating Israel in 1948 they wouldn’t have allowed the Jews another chance?
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
my 2 cents (1,085) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 1:07 pm
Tom
I think you know full well why the Mid East Forum has done that over the years, I’ve read their articles for at least 5 and possibly more.
Daniel Pipes has shown the bias on campus and even the attacks against students by the lecturers concerned.
Thank God there are people like him around or the leftists would have a free hand against anyone who opposed their position on Israel.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
my 2 cents (1,085) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 1:11 pm
Scrubone
I’m not sure how the selling of top tech by the USA to Egypt, Saudi will affect the issue in the next decade.
Certainly the stockpiling of 000″s of rockets will bring all of suburban Israel into the fray.
Lets not forget the USA radar in Israel is USA owned and the Israelis have no control over where it’s realtime data goes.
Probably a phone call away from USA (Muslim Brotherhood) friendly arab capitals, via Israel’s good friend Obama?
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
my 2 cents (1,085) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
Good points FE
The UN was all for doing swaps elsewhere in the world but just happened to not want to do the same for Israel.
and then there is the special refugee status…….
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Bob R (1,040) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 2:10 pm
Israel is very good at getting future leaders to visit and showing them around. I’ll be interested to see whether they have the same success though when the US becomes predominantly mexican and black.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
MH (229) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 3:36 pm
The Fijian jewish question is the main worry for apartheid concerners in this region,the biggest armed camp in the Pacific,and probably the biggest UN supported mercenary dependent govt in keeping the peace in the Near or middle east. Lawrence and his motley bunch of Arabs and the ANZACS helped in the removal of the Turks.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
PaulL (5,198) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 3:42 pm
No, no other country in the region would ever return land they’d won in a war. Two wrongs also don’t make a right, didn’t when I was 5 years old, and still don’t. Particularly imagined wrongs about what someone else might do in hypothetical situations.

Israel has demonstrated a clear intent, over time, to move to a two state solution that involves partition. That partition will clearly be based on historical boundaries, with some land swaps for areas where major settlements have been established. The extreme religious right in Israel are trying to block that by establishing additional settlements. The Israeli government have stated they oppose that, and as I understand it that is illegal under Israeli law. They are choosing not to take action because it’s politically inconvenient.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
F E Smith (2,543) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 4:03 pm
No, no other country in the region would ever return land they’d won in a war. Two wrongs also don’t make a right, didn’t when I was 5 years old, and still don’t.

So why should Israel do what no other country in the region would?
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
PaulL (5,198) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 4:33 pm
So why should Israel do what no other country in the region would?

Because Israel is, and wants to remain, a civilised first world country. And, so far as I can tell, the others don’t. Again, two wrongs don’t make a right.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
my 2 cents (1,085) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 5:32 pm
No PaulL
that is rewarding liars and bullies, not commonsense at all.

Israel is a civilised 1st world country amongst despots and tyrants she doesn’t need to do anything, least of all listen to wally liberal leftist crap.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
PaulL (5,198) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 6:18 pm
@my 2 cents: It’s not for us to decide what Israel should or should not want to do. They’ve themselves said that these settlements are illegal. Are you disagreeing with that?
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Fletch (4,316) Says:
September 10th, 2012 at 6:44 pm
The 3-4 million Palestinians in the occupied territories (now arguably down a bit, since Gaza is sort of independent, but there are millions in the West Bank) have no vote, even though they are subject to the will of the Israeli government. It’s not because of where they live, because the Jewish settlers who also live in the West Bank have full political rights.

Israel is one of the most open societies in the world. Out of a population of 6.7 million, about 1.3 million — 20 percent of the population — are non-Jews (approximately 1.1 million Muslims, 130,000 Christians and 100,000 Druze).1

Arabs in Israel have equal voting rights; in fact, it is one of the few places in the Middle East where Arab women may vote. Arabs currently hold 8 seats in the 120-seat Knesset. Israeli Arabs have also held various government posts, including one who served as Israel’s ambassador to Finland and the current deputy mayor of Tel Aviv. Oscar Abu Razaq was appointed Director General of the Ministry of Interior, the first Arab citizen to become chief executive of a key government ministry. Ariel Sharon’s original cabinet included the first Arab minister, Salah Tarif, a Druze who served as a minister without portfolio. An Arab is also a Supreme Court justice.

Arabic, like Hebrew, is an official language in Israel. More than 300,000 Arab children attend Israeli schools. At the time of Israel’s founding, there was one Arab high school in the country. Today, there are hundreds of Arab schools.2

In 2002, the Israeli Supreme Court also ruled that the government cannot allocate land based on religion or ethnicity, and may not prevent Arab citizens from living wherever they choose.2a

The sole legal distinction between Jewish and Arab citizens of Israel is that the latter are not required to serve in the Israeli army. This is to spare Arab citizens the need to take up arms against their brethren. Nevertheless, Bedouins have served in paratroop units and other Arabs have volunteered for military duty. Compulsory military service is applied to the Druze and Circassian communities at their own request.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Ryan Sproull (5,585) Says:
September 12th, 2012 at 1:36 pm
The AUSA motion to censure Arena has just passed, overwhelmingly, apparently.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote
Ryan Sproull (5,585) Says:
September 12th, 2012 at 2:05 pm
And a second motion has just passed, that she must write a written apology.
Vote: 0 0 You need to be logged in to vote

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Kiwiblog