General Debate 10 September 2012

September 10th, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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100 Responses to “General Debate 10 September 2012”

  1. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    Wakey, wakey, everybody. :-)

    Yes, that’s a very cool story.

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  2. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Another Weetbrick in the wall

    We don’t just need education
    We don’t just need thought control
    No more hunger in the classroom
    Teachers – give them kids some grub.
    Hey! Parents! Leave your kids to us!
    All in all it’s just another brick in the wall.
    All in all you’re just another brick in the wall.

    “Wrong, Do it again!”

    “If you don’t eat yer meat, you can’t have any learning. How can you
    have any learning if you don’t eat yer meat?”

    “You! Yes, you behind the bikesheds, stand still Labour!”

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  3. Sofia (857 comments) says:

    A confidential report on David Bain’s claim for wrongful imprisonment concludes he is innocent of murdering his parents, brother and two sisters and recommends the Government pay him compensation …

    However, Bain falls outside the guidelines because he was acquitted following a retrial.

    Yet, the Crown can choose to consider claims, such as Bain’s bid for compensation, in “extraordinary circumstances”.

    “It’s really difficult, we can’t underestimate the complexities of trying to prove innocence as opposed to raising reasonable doubt, which is all that you have to do in a criminal trial. This is quite different,” Gallivan said.
    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/bain-compensation-case-full-complexities-5064450

    Another ‘confidential’ report

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  4. Keeping Stock (10,339 comments) says:

    So; to all the amateur detectives out there; who leaked ther outcome of the David Bain report to the NZ Herald? It certainly gives them a big story for the start of their tabloid days, even if they have held the story back.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/09/who-leaked-confidential-report.html

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  5. Carlos (683 comments) says:

    State of democracy in both the Republican and Democratic Parties seems to be appalling.

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  6. Griff (7,702 comments) says:

    Three Northland iwi leaders have officially lodged a Waitangi Tribunal claim for the commercial use of wind.

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  7. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    Griff, last night was curry night – Im happy to send my wind to the local iwi up there, any idea of an address, or should I just point my arse in their general direction? :)

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  8. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    stupid stoneagers..just making fools of themselves now.

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  9. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    A W.A. couple have been charged with female genital mutilation of a one year old girl..They took her to Bali.
    Winds of Jihad.

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  10. Manolo (13,768 comments) says:

    The native’s greed grows by the minute. They will have to organise a few huis with free booze and food (paid by taxpayers) to discuss this important matter.

    It will end only when firm politicians say no more to these absurd claims, which rules out Labour or Labour lite piss-weak current “leaders”.

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  11. Griff (7,702 comments) says:

    hmmokrightitis
    No please no the stench of bull shit is bad enough

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  12. hj (7,015 comments) says:

    Oil Prices re enter the danger zone

    Get ready for a prolonged slowdown in the major industrial economies
    http://www.theedgemalaysia.com/highlights/220047-oil-prices-re-enter-the-danger-zone.html

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  13. Carlos (683 comments) says:

    I think the best community service “punishment” for repeat taggers, vandals, etc. would be to have them at the landfill sorting through it for recyclable stuff. I believe the filthiness and smell of this job may actually make some of them think twice before recommitting the same crimes.

    What do you guys think?

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  14. jaba (2,142 comments) says:

    the security at a National Party conference is alway likely to cost money to keep the great unwashed away .. Security at a Labour/Green conference .. um ZERO, the right are too busy earning a living

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  15. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    So how long before the sunshine is claimed?

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  16. jaba (2,142 comments) says:

    and Pete George, very good, singing it in my head now

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  17. Manolo (13,768 comments) says:

    And all these claims from a ‘culture” that surpassed the Greeks, Romans and Egyptians.
    Aren’t we so lucky to have been populated by a group of tribes from the Stone Age?

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  18. hj (7,015 comments) says:

    Clear thinking from Productivity Commission
    01 Feb 2012
    The New Zealand Productivity Commission as an independent Crown Entity*1 established by the Government in December 2010.

    http://www.cpia.org.nz/projects/index/10/

    Is a Crown Entity independant when:

    Productivity Commision:
    We recommend that you:
    a agree to the inquiry selection process set out in Appendix 1
    Agree/disagree
    b agree that Commission’s second tranche of inquiries be selected on the degree that
    they:
    are relatively uncontroversial given the desire to establish broad political support for the Commission
    so that is terms acceptable to National, Labour and the Greens (keith Locke and his entrails).

    Immigration was excluded as an item for “special attention” whereas the Australian productivity commision found that their was little or no benefit to Australians from immigration: it had all been captured by the migrants.
    and the Savings Working Group put the bklame for high house prices and lack of savings fairly and squarely on government policies, citing immigration and tax policies favouring property investors.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/…/Government-policies-blamed-for-house-prices

    Andrew King:

    We were very pleased that the findings of the Productivity Commission largely agreed with our recommendations.

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  19. Keeping Stock (10,339 comments) says:

    @ Lance – it’s already been mentioned. All those solar panels around the place are just crying out to have a subsidy applied to them.

    But one day, one of these claims will be the straw that break’s the camel’s back, or perhaps a better analogy would be to say the stone that derails the ToW gravy train.

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  20. David Garrett (7,272 comments) says:

    laj: No, sadly, this is no joke. It is in fact the logical consequence of a policy of appeasement that has been followed since the Lange Labour government .

    And I am damned if I know the answer… the long term potential consequences of this nonsense scares the hell out of me, because my children are brown, and easily mistaken for Maori…eventually the long predicted “pakeha backlash” has got to come…

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  21. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    So, on a more intelligent note, local iwi up norf claiming rights to commercial benefits from wind. What about the commerical impacts of wind – and water – will they also take responsibility for this as well as the $$$ of benefit for no investment?

    All well and good sticking your hand out for the good stuff, stand up and be counted for the bad stuff too.

    (tumbleweed rolls through)

    yeah, thought not. Hey Hone ya usless prick, remember me? Tell your mates to work for a living, will do them wonders. Especially ‘big paul’. Or is that too close to the bone homey?

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  22. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    I was listening to ZB this morning and their 8am news report. They mentioned the claims by some iwi that they own wind (lol).

    The newsreader actually said “and for those who scoff at this, people were the same with fish in 80’s and more recently, water” hahahaha fuckin hell

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  23. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    As for Maori in general. I think they are facing more issues now than they ever have before.

    And its not because of some mean right wing policy. Its because of the pathetic left who have bent over backwards to throw cash at them.

    Ask yourself this – how many good maoris have you met this year? how many have you seen in public this year?

    Dime grew up out west. Went to Kelston boys when it was 30-40% maori and PI. Back then i knew some good maoris. Hell, i knew some a few years ago.

    Nowadays the only maori i come across are worthless piles of shit. absolute trash. lazy too.

    Maori are becoming a group of awful bastards and its sad. its being done to them by the left and their own peeps on the gravy train.

    im not sure how much lower they can sink to be honest.

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  24. trout (939 comments) says:

    Be aware Dime that thousands of ambitious capable Maori have fled to Oz to avoid the pernicious effects of embedded tribalism. Of course those who have managed to find a spot on the gravy train will stay and fight to the death to keep their ‘entitlements’.

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  25. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    WTF – Shearer has just been talking about National’s ‘abysmal’ record on education, but…

    Labour won’t scrap National Standards – Shearer

    …sounds like a mixed message muddle.

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  26. Griff (7,702 comments) says:

    We either pull the plug now on the treaty industry or face scope creep endlessly eroding the rights and futures of New Zealanders for the benefit of a small cabal of tribal leaders. The claims for water and air are just an attempt to levy a tax on the rest of us for the benefit of a racial minority.
    Where is the fucking human rights in a race based tax? Our country had a acting moari prime minister in Timi Kara, in 1909 he will be spinning in his Grave at the separatist racist leadership moari now have.

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  27. hmmokrightitis (1,590 comments) says:

    dime, dont be such a ‘tard. Honestly bro, keep up. Firstly, how are you defining Maori? Its highly likely Im included in your definition – and Im by no means an exception. Dont confuse the ramblings of some morons at tribal leadership level who have been swayed by smooth talking ‘advisors’.

    Like most generalisations, yours was shit :)

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  28. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    I tell ya now…its all gona end in tears. Whitey has had a gutsful.

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  29. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    hmmo – im sorry but i just keep seeing maori trash. i can tell what a freakin maori looks like dude. i can tell the difference between a tongan and a samoan, a korean and a chinese dude.

    you guys are on a downward spiral and some of you need to step up. youll end up being as fucked as american indians or the abos. it would be sad.

    trout – dimes niece is with a maori dude. hes making 100k+ a year in the mining industry. they aint coming back! great nephew sont be exposed to the bullshit over here. thank god.

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  30. peterwn (3,272 comments) says:

    Bain report leak – Assuming the report does contain a recommendation for compensation, the circumstances behing the recommendation are not known. What is not known is whether the compensation recommendation was made on the accepted ‘balance of probabilities’ basis or if the judge considers that compensation should be awarded because he was ultimately found ‘not guilty’. A few points. Firstly the Cabinet guidelines exclude a retrial situation but that was possibly because no one foresaw the Bain set of circumstances. IMO the Bain circumstances should qualify in principle regardless of this apparent stricture. Secondly if the judge considers on the balance of probabilities that he did not do it, IMO the Government should pay up and be done with it. This will annoy some people, but the judge has had a chance to consider all aspects and is well placed to consider the ‘balance of probabilities’ aspect.

    If the judge considers that there should be a payout regardless of the ‘balance of probabilities, this then becomes a bit of a political hot potato. Perhaps the judge would be signalling that the ‘beyond reasonable doubt’ stance is not always appropriate and should be reviewed.

    A possibility in my mind is there should be compensation upon a subsequent acquittal, but only if the accused took the stand (and exposed him or herself to cross examination) during the original trial or a retrial. This would have defence lawyers leaping up and down. A barrister recommended compensation be denied in an earlier instance noting the accused did not take the stand or otherwise cooperate. The accused had almost zilch public sympathy in that case.

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  31. tom hunter (4,838 comments) says:

    Whitey has had a gutsful.

    No they haven’t. “Whitey” will vote for the same sort of gravy train shite that iwi are into, and have been for years. It won’t be as public or as obvious, and it may not be as individually enriching – but it’s what government and culture is all about in NZ nowadays. If “Whitey” had ever really had a gutsful they would have voted against Labour and/or National decades ago when this first started cranking up.

    Like much of the rest of NZ this process will only stop when the money runs out.

    they aint coming back!

    That’s one of the saddest, but most concise descriptions I’ve ever read of our situation. It’s slightly wrong though, in that very rich people who’ve made their pile overseas, do seem to be coming back to raise kids – because they’re rich enough to avoid most of this crap.

    And on a completely different note, I loved this excerpt from Woodward’s latest book about the Obama Administration:

    Woodward recounts an episode early in his presidency when then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid were hammering out final details of the stimulus bill.

    Obama phoned in to deliver a “high-minded message,” he writes. Obama went on so long that Pelosi “reached over and pressed the mute button on her phone,” so they could continue to work without the president hearing that they weren’t paying attention.

    The visuals on that would be priceless. The ultimate empty suit of hot air yammering in the background while actual work gets done. What an incompetent oaf Obama is.

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  32. flipper (4,061 comments) says:

    Heh Folks…
    Can I change the thread…please?

    We hear a lot ftrom the red melons and shearlites on the minimum wage. What is to be? $15, $16….$20 – plus all the add-ons that automatically accrue?

    Well, to return to the real world, study this from Newsmx, US this morning:

    ” … Cost of Democrats’ Minimum-Wage Hike: Up to 768,000 Jobs
    The Democratic Party’s 2012 platform calls for raising the minimum wage and pegging it to inflation — and a wage bill already introduced by congressional Democrats could cost at least 256,000 jobs, according to a new report.
    Sen. Tom Harkin of Iowa and Rep. Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut have proposed raising the federal minimum wage in three stages to $9.80 per hour — an increase of 35 percent over the current level — and then annually raising the wage based on inflation.
    The bill also stipulates that employers should pay 70 percent of the full minimum to workers who receive tip income, an increase of 200 percent.
    “Earlier studies have projected at least 467,000 lost jobs following a wage hike of this magnitude,” according to the report from the Employment Policies Institute (EPI).
    “Accounting for the smaller labor force post-recession, job losses in the range of 256,000 to 768,000 are projected based on results found in earlier economic literature.”
    The EPI is a nonprofit research organization focusing on employment growth, with a special emphasis on issues that affect entry-level employment.
    The report points to figures from the Bureau of Labor Statistics indicating that of the employees working at or near the current minimum wage of $7.25, nearly 50 percent are under age 25.
    They also work mostly in service occupations — 43 percent work in food preparation and serving occupations, where profit margins are low.
    When businesses hiring young employees “can’t offset the rising labor costs with higher prices, they have to figure out how to do more with less,” the report states.
    “The result is a loss of hours, employment, or both.”
    Among teens, the unemployment rate is already 23.8 percent nationwide.
    The EPI cites a study showing that in addition to reducing employment, minimum wage increases are poorly targeted to families in poverty.
    Nearly 60 percent of minimum wage earners are either living at home with parents or other relatives, or have a spouse who also works. Less than 10 percent are single parents with children.
    “The Democratic Party still refuses to acknowledge that wage hikes kill job opportunities,” said Michael Saltsman, research fellow at EPI.
    “As the election season heats up, the Democratic Party should not lose its focus on finding policies that increase job opportunities instead of reduce them.”

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  33. Manolo (13,768 comments) says:

    Will the “brave” National Party ever dare to throw out and condemn these absurd claims?
    Never. It lacks the balls to stand up to the Stone Agers.

    We already know Labour’s position.

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  34. Manolo (13,768 comments) says:

    Proud to be French? You ought to be kidding.
    http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8530206/rich-man-urged-to-think-about-being-french

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  35. MH (754 comments) says:

    when I use air at work is that commercial use? What if we bring in our own overseas air bottles to avoid paying? Can Maori air be recycled and used again. Perhaps a peppercorn payment symbolic of acknowledging the right, once procured will it last for ever or can it be turned into water thus avoiding double payment. No taxation without representation on the iwi boards: air companies might have to be wind up if they fail to deliver,pity any end user agreement.
    The answer my friend,is blow’en in the wind. All because we sold assets to pay off overseas debt.Has the o/seas debt been reduced,are we still borrowing? Are they anymore efficient.

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  36. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    By the look of the weather forecast we’ll have to pay Antarctica a heap of air royalties over the next few days.

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  37. my 2 cents (1,091 comments) says:

    Carlos (521) Says:
    September 10th, 2012 at 8:37 am

    why not and in bright pink overalls with no sunglasses to hide behind.

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  38. backster (2,171 comments) says:

    For more decisions by Judge Raoul NEAVE even the crims think he is a soft dork. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10832949

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  39. graham (2,335 comments) says:

    my 2 cents at 10:05 –

    I agree. However, you may remember a few years ago Iona Pannett (Wellington City Council) huffed and puffed about this exact same idea when Wellington’s Community Constable forced taggers to wear pink vests while they cleaned off their tags. She compared it to Nazi Germany’s persecution of gay men, and said it would reinforce prejudice against gay and lesbian people.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/06/silly_hysteria.html

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  40. lilman (959 comments) says:

    Shit the All Blacks were average on Saturday night,the best team came second no doubt.
    All Blacks were negitave and lacking construction so was relieved when power went out and we had time to sort our shit out.
    Best first five was in the stands and Mealamu was once a good player but hes past it.

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  41. Manolo (13,768 comments) says:

    Surprise, surprise: the communist Luddites lend support to socialist Labour’s proposal. Money to burn. Who cares?
    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8530150/govt-doing-enough-to-feed-students-parata

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  42. kowtow (8,470 comments) says:

    dime

    While Labour let the Waitangi genie out of the bottle, National have been responsible for some pretty major settlements. Ngai Tahu got their 3rd or 5th full and final settlement out of a National govt and now this govt is playing secret settlements too.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/opinion/212056/complaint-industry-still-rambles

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  43. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    kowtow – i think National have been naive. Thinking a “final settlement” would get rid of these pests.

    Ive basically snapped.

    Next time someone tells me “youre just maori bashing” i will say – yes i am! cause they are a disgrace

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  44. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    RIP Monty

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  45. grumpyoldhori (2,362 comments) says:

    How to write to a fuckwit politician suffering from homophobia.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-kluwe/an-open-letter-to-emmett-burns_b_1866216.html?ir=Politics&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009#slide=more220699

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  46. grumpyoldhori (2,362 comments) says:

    Dime dear boy, do you tell all Maori that when you meet them or are you a typical right wing honkie wimp ?

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  47. Manolo (13,768 comments) says:

    Dime dear boy, do you tell all Maori that when you meet them..

    The violent streak resurfaces. :D

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  48. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    grumpy – i dont see any point in going up to anyone and saying “youre a piece of trash”. i cant say many maori scare me though.

    i have a question for you – have you done anything to help elevate your people lately? you seem to be one of the most racist here and i suspect youre actually white. but ill give you the benefit of the doubt.

    you sound old. surely you must have some pull on the marae?

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  49. Redbaiter (8,823 comments) says:

    Grumpyoldracist- Dime dear boy, do you tell all Maori that when you meet them or are you a typical right wing honkie wimp ?

    He might be a honky wimp, but he’s never been a right winger. He’s a Progressive. Always has been, always will be.

    BTW Grumpy, have a read of this.

    http://truebluenz.com/2012/09/10/maori-separatism-john-key-is-the-problem-not-the-solution/

    These idiots appealing to JK to do something about separatism must have had their head in the sand for the last four years.

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  50. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    lol a progressive? if only i could meet redbaiters standard of what determines a right winger. i could vote conservative – the party who want to introduce a shit ton of new laws controlling social behavior. real right wing

    not sure ive ever been called a wimp before by some 60kg old man. first time for everything!

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  51. Redbaiter (8,823 comments) says:

    Ten Cents- the party who want to introduce a shit ton of new laws controlling social behavior.

    Moron- what do you think has been the outcome of your enthusiastic support for an amoral and disintegrating society?

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  52. Griff (7,702 comments) says:

    Thanks for being a stone age savage eh hori
    Why bother trying to bring the moari culture into the 21nd century
    Round them all up and kill them for din dins the cultural correct resolution of the treaty issue

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  53. Manolo (13,768 comments) says:

    Neville speaks on this matter: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8530251/key-rejects-maori-wind-ownership

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  54. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Since the Conservative Party has been included in Roy Morgan polls, and since Colin Craig has been campaigning against homosexuals, support for the party has dropping, from 3% to 1.5% to 0.5 %.

    It may be a bit soon to say if this is a sustained trend – >a href=”http://yournz.org/2012/09/10/conservative-party-poll-trend/”>Conservative Party poll trend.

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  55. hj (7,015 comments) says:

    grumpyoldhori (2,241) Says:
    September 10th, 2012 at 11:35 am
    Dime dear boy, do you tell all Maori that when you meet them or are you a typical right wing honkie wimp ?
    …………………..
    Grumpyoldhorri wants to have ago with a Pakeha again. He must be some physical specimen?

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  56. hj (7,015 comments) says:

    Free lunches in low decile schools smacks of moral hazard.

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  57. grumpyoldhori (2,362 comments) says:

    Come on Dime put a wager up of a couple of cases of single malt that I am not a Hori.
    60Kg, heh, I went and jumped on the scales, still 119Kg at 6′ 3″.

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  58. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    “Moron- what do you think has been the outcome of your enthusiastic support for an amoral and disintegrating society?”

    lol werent you bleating yesterday about demerits for name calling?

    just so im clear.

    Redbaiter hates the laws introduced by national and labour that control social behavior. his solution is to vote conservative – the party that will introduce a shit ton of nanny state laws.

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  59. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    grumpy – was calling redbaiter a 60kg old man.

    apart from wanting to fight. arent you concerned with the direction maori are heading??

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  60. redeye (629 comments) says:

    I’m just wondering if Air NZ will now need to pay license fee for the use of the name?

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  61. Manolo (13,768 comments) says:

    I went and jumped on the scales, still 119Kg at 6′ 3″.

    No, no, no. You should remove all the spears, rocks, knives and musket before jumping on the scale.

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  62. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    I’m quite happy for Maori to claim to be paid for the use of their air.

    If I use any air, directly or indirectly, that Maori can prove they owned in 1840 I’ll happily pay them a royalty. They deserve something if they can manage that.

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  63. Redbaiter (8,823 comments) says:

    Dime- you’re a moron, and your political perceptions are so shallow its too big a problem for anyone to put right. Your head is fucked by Progressive propaganda and it always will be. Its a fruitless task trying to convince you of anything because you are just too fucking knuckle draggingly dumb dull and uninformed.

    You keep ignorantly shilling for the left. There’s nothing can be done to stop that.

    We’re going around you or over you. Doesn’t really matter which.

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  64. Griff (7,702 comments) says:

    If the decline of the CCCP party is a sustained trend we will soon hear a “pop” as Craig disappears up his own arse

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  65. KevinH (1,227 comments) says:

    The Crown has been ripping Maori off for generations, those days are over, the Empire is in decline and now all New Zealanders will have to pay for the resources that were once taken for granted.
    Pakeha culture has enjoyed the legacy of colonialism, exploitation, but now as I mentioned before, those days are consigned to history and generations gone.

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  66. hj (7,015 comments) says:

    grumpyoldhori (2,242) Says:
    September 10th, 2012 at 12:10 pm
    Come on Dime put a wager up of a couple of cases of single malt that I am not a Hori.
    60Kg, heh, I went and jumped on the scales, still 119Kg at 6′ 3″.
    …………………………
    Grumpy are you looking for a Pakeha to fight who is your size, age and physical condition or a smaller Pakeha who you can easily beat?

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  67. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    Pakeha culture has enjoyed the legacy of colonialism, exploitation

    Maori have also enjoyed benefits of colonialism and European skills and technology. For example, electicity didn’t come out of thin air.

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  68. Lance (2,655 comments) says:

    @Pete George

    Hush!

    Electricity was around when only Maori inhabited the land, there was lightening and I am pretty sure atoms had electrons. Therefore they own it all.

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  69. hj (7,015 comments) says:

    KevinH (793) Says:
    September 10th, 2012 at 12:32 pm
    The Crown has been ripping Maori off for generations, those days are over, the Empire is in decline and now all New Zealanders will have to pay for the resources that were once taken for granted.
    Pakeha culture has enjoyed the legacy of colonialism, exploitation, but now as I mentioned before, those days are consigned to history and generations gone.
    ……………………………………………….
    A parasite musn’t kill it’s host. Even in Fiji Bainimarana can see the tribal system doesn’t work.

    Chris Trotter maintains the issue was captured by an elite of politicians, public servants, academics and vested interests, and that as long as there was a consensus across the political parties to stick to the mission, the voter had very little say in the matter. But that came to an abrupt halt at Orewa and subsequent polls told the story of a disaffected public.

    and when the parasite starts to make it’s host ill:

    “what we saw in reaction to Brash’s speech was a powerful warning, I think, to the elites, to the Wellington elites, which was: Pull back. And Clark heard them. She did this amazing handbrake turn: 180 degrees, and smoking tyres in the other direction.

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  70. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    ” heh, I went and jumped on the scales, still 119Kg at 6′ 3″. ”

    Ya fat slob..

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  71. hj (7,015 comments) says:

    “Pakeha culture has enjoyed the legacy of colonialism, exploitation,”
    …………….

    “In the first half of the nineteenth century, however, individual iwi considered carrying their martial culture beyond the shores of New Zealand. At least three expeditions of conquest were planned: to Samoa, to Norfolk Island, and to the Chatham Islands, which did not become part of New Zealand until 1842. All these proposed expeditions were dependent on finding transport to those places: and that meant finding a European ship’s captain whose vessel was available for charter; or it meant Maori commandeering a vessel for the purpose.
    In the event there were no expeditions to Norfolk Island or to Samoa because the necessary transport was not secured. But there was an invasion of the Chathams Islands. Two Taranaki tribes then based in Wellington, Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga ki Poneke, hijacked a European vessel in 1835 and had themselves—a total of 900 people—delivered to Chatham Islands. There they takahi’d or walked the land to claim it; ritually killed around 300 Chatham Moriori out of a total of around 1600, and enslaved the survivors—separating husbands from wives, parents from children, forbidding them to speak their own language or practise their own customs, and forcing them to violate the tapus of their culture, whose mana was based on the rejection of violence.
    Was this a superior form of colonisation to that imposed by European on Maori? Did it respect the dignity and customs of the colonised? Did it acknowledge the mana whenua of the tchakat henu or indigenous people of the Chathams? It did not. It was what might now be called an exercise in ethnic cleansing. When Bishop Selwyn arrived in the islands in 1848, it was to discover that the Maori called Moriori “Paraiwhara” or “Blackfellas”; and it was to report that the Moriori population continued to decline at a suicidal rate as a consequence of kongenge or despair. Moriori slaves were not released and New Zealand law was not established on the islands until 1862, twenty years after they had become part of New Zealand. And it is that twenty years of neglect of fiduciary duty on the part of the Crown that is the basis for the Moriori claim to the Waitangi Tribunal, heard in 1994, but still not reported upon.”

    Speech by Michael King

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  72. hj (7,015 comments) says:

    but still not reported upon.”

    oh can you imagine Radio NZ reporting on that?

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  73. bhudson (4,740 comments) says:

    RIP Monty

    Such an artiste. Truly an actor’s actor. We’ll not see his majestic screen presence again.

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  74. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    Pete George (14,548) Says:
    September 10th, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Pakeha culture has enjoyed the legacy of colonialism, exploitation

    Maori have also enjoyed benefits of colonialism and European skills and technology. For example, electicity didn’t come out of thin air.

    Why is electricity a “European skill”? That is to say, as someone of European origin, why do I get to claim some sort of credit for the discoveries and inventions of people far removed from anything in my life simply by virtue of a shared ethnic origin? Surely my genealogy has no relevance to the intellect and hard work of those specific individuals who made momentous advances in science and technology and who are rightly honoured and remembered for their contributions.

    Moreover, if electricity really is a “European skill” and a “benefit of colonialism”, why does China and Japan have it as well seeing as they are neither European or colonized?

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  75. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Weihana – if everyone had left NZ alone. At what point do you think maori would have progressed? at what point would they have stopped slaughtering each other?

    you mention china and japan. its fair to say they were a tad more advanced than you guys in the 1800’s.

    without us glorious white men youd be like one of those ancient tribes they find every now and again in south america :)

    also, youre welcome (for all the technology and also for not just wiping you out)

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  76. Manolo (13,768 comments) says:

    without us glorious white men youd be like one of those ancient tribes they find every now and again in south america

    Give South America a break, will you? You probably meant Africa. :D

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  77. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Dime <–directly responsible for all the bad things white fellas did 100 years ago but not responsible for any of the good things. yay me.

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  78. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    Reddie

    Looks like things are flowing pretty smoothly on the I-35. But we’re well past the peak now.

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  79. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    lol Manolo: “muskets”.

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  80. chiz (1,144 comments) says:

    Man claims his huge penis caused security scare.

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  81. Weihana (4,537 comments) says:

    dime (4,851) Says:
    September 10th, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    Weihana – if everyone had left NZ alone. At what point do you think maori would have progressed? at what point would they have stopped slaughtering each other?

    you mention china and japan. its fair to say they were a tad more advanced than you guys in the 1800′s.

    without us glorious white men youd be like one of those ancient tribes they find every now and again in south america :)

    also, youre welcome (for all the technology and also for not just wiping you out)

    Why does your counterfactual require that Maori be “left alone”? China and Japan both have a history of trading with the west. Indeed the Meiji constitution was based on a study of European systems. Clearly they weren’t “left alone”.

    Moreover, why do you accuse Maori of “slaughtering each other” as if this was a unique attribute of Maori whilst the rest of the world lived in peace and harmony? Humans have been slaughtering each other as long as we have been around and indeed some of the most horrific atrocities have been committed by the most industrious and advanced nations.

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  82. Griff (7,702 comments) says:

    Finally Act stands up
    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/wind-claim-will-damage-race-relations-%E2%80%93-banks-ck-128067

    “But the Treaty Settlement process should be about righting the wrongs of the past, not creating new divisions.

    “Ngapuhi’s attempt to claim rights over the wind will push many New Zealanders’ goodwill to breaking point.

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  83. Longknives (4,744 comments) says:

    But don’t Maori own the Wind, the Stars and the Sea??..

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  84. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    http://www.forbiddenknowledgetv.com/videos/patriot-act/nsa-whistle-blower-tells-all.html

    This is quite good, and short. He explains how his software works to capture every single about you across time, and if you think Echelon and UKUSA aren’t doing the exact same thing to us, you’re a very trusting soul.

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  85. Manolo (13,768 comments) says:

    But don’t Maori own the Wind, the Stars and the Sea?

    Well, the Stone Agers claim to own even the most faraway galaxies. It’s their own right as sons and daughters of the great and wise Kupe.

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  86. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    Ngapuhi’s attempt to claim rights over the wind will push many New Zealanders’ goodwill to breaking point.

    I’d like to think that Griff but I’ve almost given up hope because everytime they make a completely mental claim like first: fisheries; second: radio spectrum; third: water; the govt, for legal reasons if nothing else, pretends to seriously entertain it which brings gravitas in the form of learned reports and treatises to the table and before you know it all the mentals in parliament via the mentals in the media have convinced the rest of the mentals in the general public that it’s actually quite true, they really do own [fill in blank].

    It’s like the Mad Hatter’s Tea Party except it’s real.

    However having said that I think that what may happen this time is while the first parts of the equation work well and it gets up to the reports and the mentals in parliament thinking there’s a genuine case for wind, the idiots are going to find it’s a bridge too far convincing enough of the mentals in the general public this time, no matter how many times Walrus and Campbell wheel out Hone to explain how of course the Maowi actually INVENTED the wind and it’s all sacwed and a pwecious taonga and isn’t everyone just so vewy wacist! But even that I fear, isn’t going to work, this time. And I shall laugh and laugh.

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  87. Longknives (4,744 comments) says:

    Has NASA paid the appropriate ‘Koha’ for venturing onto Mars?? As Maori clearly own the Stars…

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  88. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    Good questions about Mars that NASA doesn’t seem to ask:

    Has NASA paid the appropriate ‘Koha’ for venturing onto Mars?? As Maori clearly own the Stars…

    I imagine that’s just another secret clause in the TPP Longknives. It probably went up by 750k since that LOTR museum deal fell through and caused a koha calamity.

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  89. Longknives (4,744 comments) says:

    Hamnida should be along any minute to tell us that Maori have, in fact, already been to Mars…

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  90. Black with a Vengeance (1,861 comments) says:

    the ignorance runs strong in you dime!!!

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  91. grumpyoldhori (2,362 comments) says:

    Reid, you pakeha are interesting, you argue hori never owned the Foreshore even when they sold parts of it to pakeha.
    Yet you argue under property rights that the pakeha who bought that Foreshore should not surrender it to the crown with no compensation.
    So do you believe one needs the right (white) skin tone to have property rights in NZ ?

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  92. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    Speaking of water, did anyone see this earlier this month?

    New Zealand Grants a River the Rights of Personhood

    Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/new-zealand-grants-a-river-the-rights-of-personhood.html#ixzz2634fQckw

    Odd isn’t it. I mean you’d think the media would make a big deal about it, I missed it. Did you?

    America. Home of the brave.

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  93. RF (1,398 comments) says:

    Maori owning everything that they can get their greedy hands on !!!’. Jesus H Christ.. What’s next. I suppose someone will now tell me David Bain will be compensated.

    Looks nice on the Sunshine Coast this time of the year. Last one out turn off the light. Hang on that’s something Maori did not invent.. Electricity. Give them several months and they wil claim for that. Maori = Greed.

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  94. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    Two women are tramping in the bush. After an hour or so, they come to a stream. Unable to cross, they decide to walk along the stream and look for a narrower place.
    Fortunately they come to an old bridge spanning the stream. Deciding the bridge safe, the two women proceed to cross.
    Halfway across, one woman stops and says to the other, “I’ve always wanted to be like the guys, and urinate off a bridge.”
    The other woman looks around and says, “Well, I don’t see anyone around, now’s your chance!”
    The first woman drops her hiking shorts and backs over to the side of the bridge. As she begins to urinate, she looks over her shoulder. “Holy shit!” she exclaims, “I just pissed in a canoe!”
    Alarmed, the second woman hurries over, and peeks at the stream.
    “Calm down,” she says. “That wasn’t a canoe you pissed in, it was only your reflection.”

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  95. Steve (North Shore) (4,561 comments) says:

    Earth, Water, Air, and Fire.
    Wow they are going for three, but not the fire? Silly Maori forgot one important thing:
    You have to go for ownership of “GRAVITY” ffs gravity controls everything. It makes the water go downhill, it makes the rain fall. Opps.
    Don’t us whities have the patent and intellectual property rights to ‘Gravity’ ?

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  96. Reid (16,454 comments) says:

    If you guys don’t already know this is what’s happening in the TPP negotiations, you should. Groser’s disingenuous assertions that all trade negotiations are conducted in secret for good reason, doesn’t cut the mustard on the TPP, given what’s at stake. And for what? A deal with a dying economy? To make Key’s crowning foreign policy achievement? (For that’s it represents, to him and the moron media.) This is one deal where there should be street marches, demanding, not asking, they fes up before it’s become law, not after. The most disturbing thing is the corporates are apparently more privileged than the elected politicians and this not the only report I’ve heard that line. That in itself should give pause for thought, let alone what’s rumoured to be in the content.

    http://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech-technology-and-liberty-national-security/biggest-threat-free-speech-and

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  97. hj (7,015 comments) says:

    We know there are greedy Maori who see us as visitors, tauiwi etc. What we need to do is make the public aware who supports them outside of Mana and the Maori Party
    eg David Clendon, Catherine Delahunty, Meturia Turie, Hevin Hague and probably a few more:

    “Opponents of the legislation say the battle over the foreshore is not over with a promise from the Greens that it won’t let the foreshore and seabed issue die as it heads into the election campaign.

    Greens co-leader Metiria Turei says the Maori Party has betrayed its supporters.

    “I’m very distressed about this, this should not have happened,” she says. “The Maori Party had the power to fix the 2004 legislation, to repeal it and to put in place a just outcome, and they chose not to.”

    Ms Turei is furious at the Maori Party.

    “We should repeal the racist law and restore access to the courts and genuine justice,” she says. “We’ll continue to hold the Maori Party to account for their role in allowing this legislation to pass.”
    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyid=193090

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  98. RF (1,398 comments) says:

    Who in the hell listens to Turei. Check out her history… Not a nice person to know.

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  99. Manolo (13,768 comments) says:

    The hypocrisy of the left.
    Like the racist Willie Jackson, this one also sends his kids to private schools while claiming support for state education: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/chicago-mayors-kids-school-remains-open_652113.html

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  100. Pete George (23,562 comments) says:

    The latest Herald-Digipoll has National holding at 47.9%, Maori up a smidgen to 1.5% and Mana down 1.4 to 0.3%.

    Labour is languishing at 32% (down 2).

    Latest Herald-Digipoll Maori hold, Mana collapse.

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