Shearer says taniwha should be acknowledged

September 10th, 2012 at 7:23 pm by David Farrar

Patrick Gower at 3 News reports:

Labour Party leader has long-held beliefs that must be respected when it comes to Maori and their interests in water. His views can be traced back to his masters thesis, and he stands by them today.

Water has been the big political issue of the year, but when David Shearer was first asked who owned it he didn’t know.

But it turns out Mr Shearer has a degree of expertise on the issue, a masters thesis in fact. It was called “Between Two Worlds, Maori Values and Environmental Decision-Making”.

In his thesis he advocated that “the belief in taniwha or spiritual pollution…while they may appear irrational to many…cannot simply be dismissed as irrelevant”. It’s a belief he still holds today.

“I absolutely stick by that,” says the Labour Party leader. He says we should acknowledge taniwha. “We have been doing that for the last 20-something years when we have made decisions around water.”

Well I don’t think we should acknowledge or give any credence to taniwha. Such spiritual nonsense should play no part in our laws or decisions.

We should give as much regard to belief in taniwha as we do to belief in (Evil) Lord Xenu.

Tags: ,

147 Responses to “Shearer says taniwha should be acknowledged”

  1. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    God too dpf ?…go on. take a big dump on eurocentric religious deities or fuck a Muslim off.

    I dare ya!!!

    [DPF: If a church minister claimed that Lake Taupo was holy water, I'd have the same response]

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    spiritual nonsense ?

    talk about what you know, not what you know nothing of!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Longknives (4,456 comments) says:

    This reminded me of ‘Imaginationland’- for some reason….

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. Andrei (2,500 comments) says:

    The funny thing about the multi culti is that they will happily acknowledge any god in the name of muliti culturalism but hardly ever the Holy Trinity, the God of their forefathers in most cases, lest someone get offended.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Well, we have Shearer’s position.

    What is Key’s position.

    The same I reckon.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. wreck1080 (3,730 comments) says:

    I’d have been equally surprised if his thesis were on pixies and fairies.

    What an absolute joke, a grown adult believing in fairy tales. Shearer would be exactly the type of person to fall for a nigerian internet scam – GULLIBLE — there is no way we want such a man to ever rule the country. He lives in the world of harry potter FFS.

    It is clowns like Shearer (and jeffrey palmer) who write the ‘principles of the treaty of waitangi’ into government policy.

    Blackwithavengeance? you have pixies in your garden do you? I’d say you should visit your psychiatrist before you get attacked by fairies.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. kino flo (81 comments) says:

    @DPF, what do you understand a taniwha to be?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. JMS (299 comments) says:

    Andrei,

    I agree that today’s media and many politicians are totally inconsistent on that point.

    So let me be consistent on that point:

    Taniwha=God=Allah= all are mind based concepts with no bearing to reality.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Griff (6,765 comments) says:

    Ghosts monsters and sky faeries have no place in the laws of a sane society
    To accede to the demands of those who champion a stone age belief as fact would place us on a long slide to the dark ages
    Giving credence to a special spiritual connection only among people who identify as moari is a racist concept that only a apartheid supporter could justify

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I am respectful and tolerant of others beliefs in day to day life. But the fact remains these are ignorant primitive beliefs from a time when people had no other way to explain the world around them. God and Taniwha both belong in a time of darkness and fear.

    I have no problem with others thinking differently (to me) as long as it does not impact on me negatively. The trouble is it DOES impact on me when elected representatives start to acknowledge this primitive garbage and form policy with regard to it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. nasska (10,674 comments) says:

    Kea

    Well said.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Would any of the confirmed and evangelistic atheists/ secularists on here mind explaining in their own words (please) the origins of the star system Alpha Centauri?

    Thanks in anticipation.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. Bob (479 comments) says:

    Labour will back anything or anybody to influence votes. Key on the other hand will stick to his guns and take his chances on losing support. Who is the more principled and deserving of support?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    hah…nah cuz no pixies in the garden but I can do a mean line in pasifikan curses courtesy of some very powerful and vengeful guardian ancestor spirits:)

    you wanna find out first hand how vengeful? how’s your karma account?…you in credit or arrears?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Brian Smaller (3,990 comments) says:

    I am getting sick of this. I killed all dragons, taniwha and jaberwockies so they are extinct and can have no bearing on anything any more.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. JMS (299 comments) says:

    Redbaiter,

    an evangelistic atheist is actually very similar to somebody religious.

    The concept of the Big Bang is similar to the concept of a God.

    As for the origins of the star system Alpha Centauri, I haven’t got a clue, and nor does anybody else.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Bob- “Key on the other hand will stick to his guns and take his chances on losing support. Who is the more principled and deserving of support?”

    WTF??

    Speaking of distant galaxies, which one did you just time warp in from Bob?

    http://truebluenz.com/2012/09/10/maori-separatism-john-key-is-the-problem-not-the-solution/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Griff (6,765 comments) says:

    weddy bait
    bang dust gravity time star
    Much more logical than god six days 6036 years ago

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    awww Kea…bet you don’t sing the national anthem either?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Griff (6,765 comments) says:

    Pooh brown with utus gonna point the bone help lets all pray
    Please oh great flying spaghetti monster send a noodle appendage to defend your ordained minister Griff from the curse of the blacifaka one Ramon

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. mavxp (494 comments) says:

    In the words of Christopher Hitchens (RIP):

    “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”

    Ergo we can dismiss Taniwhas. Shearer, you stupid fool.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Keeping Stock (10,100 comments) says:

    No doubt all those Labour and Green MP’s who climbed in to John Banks when he declared his belief in the Biblical account of creation will likewise be openly ridiculing David Shearer. What; they aren’t?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Than (425 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, much as I know I’ll regret it, I’ll bite.

    The Alpha Centauri system came about by gravity. Gravity pulled atoms (chiefly hydrogen) into clumps that formed the stars Alpha Centauri A, Alpha Centauri B, and any planets that orbit them. The atoms were formed from quarks, which were pulled into a stable state (i.e, atomic nuclei and electrons) by the strong and weak nuclear forces a short time after the big bang.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Gee thanks Than, good information.

    But what was this Big Bang thing?

    What caused the big bang, and what went bang so bigly, and what did it go bang in?

    Just curious. A sentence will do.

    Thanks in anticipation.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    ehhh…might just piss on the grave of your ancestors instead griff.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Lazybum (259 comments) says:

    Taniwha is a load of fuzzy wuzzy bollocks. It is also the only spirit that can only be appeased by money. Sod knows how he spends it!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. scrubone (3,048 comments) says:

    “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”

    Ergo we can dismiss Taniwhas. Shearer, you stupid fool.

    Actually I’d say that we can dismiss Christopher Hitchens – since by his own admission he has asserted without evidence.

    But as for the topic in hand, I’ve advocated before for a register of these Taniwhas. If they exist , we can record them so plans for say, roads, can avoid them well in advance. Unless of course they’re just made up on the fly…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. Than (425 comments) says:

    I guess it must have been God then. Or at least until we learn more, and his gap shrinks further.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    nah lazybum…your Whitegod spirit likes the cash as well. just ask B-Tam :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. scrubone (3,048 comments) says:

    Red, didn’t you hear? The universe created itself.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. PaulL (5,873 comments) says:

    Not sure he said he believed it. Just that other people’s beliefs should be respected. That’s sort of like politeness. Which I know is a dying concept, but not dead yet I hope.

    I think the left go too far in pandering to this crap, but that doesn’t mean that I’d go so far as to put my hands over my ears and chant “nah nah nah not listening” when they turn up to explain how they feel about taniwha. Same as when I’m in a church for a wedding or whatever, I bow my head when we pray and say amen. I don’t believe in it, but it doesn’t hurt me to be polite.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. JMS (299 comments) says:

    The “Big Bang” and “God” are both theories

    there is no evidence for either, therefore neither will ever be proven.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Would any of the confirmed and evangelistic atheists/ secularists on here mind explaining in their own words (please) the origins of the star system Alpha Centauri?

    No doubt you are suggesting that the lack of an answer somehow provides evidence of a higher spiritual being/God/Taniwha.

    It does not.

    Nor am I convinced that reason will change your position, as you used so little of that skill to arrive at it Redbaiter.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. Lazybum (259 comments) says:

    BWAV – at least B-Tam donations are from ones own pocket. Fuzzy wuzzy Taniwha only likes government cash like his Waitangi tribuneral bludger mates. All aboard the bro gravy train, choo choo.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. KH (687 comments) says:

    I absolutely detest the Maori approach which uses any situation they can to extort cash and advantage out of any issue.
    But we do have decisions to make and quite a lot of things should be considered. Not all of them tangible.
    I have a river I hold close to my heart. Just because it’s there. How it is — is important to me.
    Every day I can go to the rear of the property just to see it.
    if there was a decision to make about it’s use or changes to make on the river.
    Then I would expect my interest in the river to be at least part of that decision.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Kea- “No doubt you are suggesting that the lack of an answer somehow provides evidence of a higher spiritual being/God/Taniwha.”

    Not really.

    It more so suggests that atheists are arrogant bastards who don’t know SFA and can’t even explain their own position but in spite of this are quite happy to frequently sneer at deists.

    Dunno about you, but it looks like rank hypocrisy to me.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. eszett (2,334 comments) says:

    while they may appear irrational to many…cannot simply be dismissed as irrelevant

    They don’t appear irrational, they are irrational.
    And they can and should be dismissed as irrelevant.

    Well said, Kea.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. Reid (15,947 comments) says:

    Speaking of rivers.

    New Zealand Grants a River the Rights of Personhood

    http://www.care2.com/causes/new-zealand-grants-a-river-the-rights-of-personhood.html#ixzz2634fQckw

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Nostalgia-NZ (4,911 comments) says:

    Possibly one of David Shearer’s best statements of the year. It defines him as a leader.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. Griff (6,765 comments) says:

    God obviously weddy bait he farted and the whole universe came in to being. Its just a too solid fart of the lord. Just like when you eat a very strong curry and push out a fart real hard.Draw mud in the popular idiom

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Oh I can explain the atheist position. It is very simple.

    Atheists are not making a claim. You are born an atheist and you learn religion. Atheism is the default position. It is not a philosophy or a belief system. You can tell nothing about a person’s beliefs based on them being an atheist. An atheist has just seen no evidence to convince them there is a God.

    In short, not believing in something is not a belief system.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    Such spiritual nonsense should play no part in our laws or decisions.

    I don’t think it’s nonsense – means a lot to some people – but it shouldn’t be included in law and decision making.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    well it finally seems shearer is the fuckwit many have been saying he is.

    On the other hand i got a 12 page booklet in todays Waikato Times from the CONSERVATIVE party.
    A very impressive publication. It contains comments and surveys about:
    asset sales
    the drinking age
    Referendums
    Debt and borrowing
    education
    etc

    and nothing about fucking taniwhas and all that sort of shit.

    Im joining up. Only costs $10

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Keeping Stock (10,100 comments) says:

    PaulL said

    Not sure he said he believed it. Just that other people’s beliefs should be respected. That’s sort of like politeness. Which I know is a dying concept, but not dead yet I hope.

    You don’t think so PaulL; then how do you explain this?

    In his thesis he advocated that “the belief in taniwha or spiritual pollution…while they may appear irrational to many…cannot simply be dismissed as irrelevant”. It’s a belief he still holds today.

    “I absolutely stick by that,” says the Labour Party leader. He says we should acknowledge taniwha.

    Shearer can believe what he wants. But he needn’t expect anyone else to.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Nostalgia-NZ (4,911 comments) says:

    Kea

    ‘In short, not believing in something is not a belief system.’

    The wise words of the taniwha. At least you are up front with your stupidity.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Nostalgia-NZ (4,911 comments) says:

    ‘Pete George (14,550) Says:
    September 10th, 2012 at 8:33 pm
    Such spiritual nonsense should play no part in our laws or decisions.

    I don’t think it’s nonsense – means a lot to some people – but it shouldn’t be included in law and decision making.’

    Do they still say prayers in Parliament or acknowledge a Queen?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Nostalgia: Thanks for the compliment. What you missed out was the “evidence” for your beliefs.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. hj (6,350 comments) says:

    I was listening to May Chen on the panel. She was saying that what people don’t realise is that there are a lot of treaty claims waiting to be heard, whereas, everyone thinks they will all be finished soon. These are not historical but recent. She also said that the reason we have good race relations is because we go down this treaty resolution road. She said that when we had the foreshore and seabed thing people got a shock at the size of the hikoi. I gathered she thought we were all preparing to go to the stockades. I was surprised that anyone would read it that way . Is her head in the clouds?

    I recall when the hikoi went over Auckland Harbour Bridge some people on Holmes were recorded saying “we’re your landlord”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. Nostalgia-NZ (4,911 comments) says:

    ‘Kea (40) Says:
    September 10th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
    Nostalgia: Thanks for the compliment. What you missed out was the “evidence” for your beliefs.’

    I wasn’t talking about my beliefs which are my own business, I was accepting that other people having the right to their own beliefs without ridicule from you.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Kea- “Oh I can explain the atheist position.”

    Great.

    Then please answer my comment/ question at 8:14 pm please.

    Just so I understand it fully.

    Thanks in anticipation.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Griff (6,765 comments) says:

    Atheist don’t not believe that supposes there is something to believe in. Agnostics don’t “believe” in god. Atheist don’t consider the question of the god superstition as having any basis in reality and view the whole thing as an artefact of pre science sentience.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Inky_the_Red (735 comments) says:

    Myths are myths I really see little difference in Taniwhas or resurrections. Not real but part of people’s beliefs.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Nostalgia: Your primitive backwards beliefs are my business when they impact on myself and others. History (and current events) show the dangers of basing decisions on faith over reason.

    I note you show the classic signs of religious intolerance by suggesting I should have “no right” to express my views.

    Well tough! Your sensitive feelings and ego do not remove my right to free speech.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Kea- “Oh I can explain the atheist position.”

    Great.

    Then please answer my comment/ question at 8:14 pm please.

    Just so I understand it fully.

    Thanks in anticipation.

    Not my field sorry Redbaiter. You have an internet connection and (maybe) a library card. Go do your own research.

    Just a tip, you need to reference things like Cosmology and Physics, not fairy tales and religion. Enjoy your study and your own personal Enlightment (better 350 years late than never)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. Reid (15,947 comments) says:

    Is her head in the clouds?

    No I expect her head is where her client base is hj and you see, it appears that silly old Pakeha who just want justice don’t band together and bring lawsuits against the govt, the way that Maowi do. And that’s just simple justice of course.

    An investment at Chen Palmer by a major iwi player using OPM (mostly just the silly old Pakeha’s money and who cares about them) has to be way better than the stock market. You would think.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Nostalgia-NZ (4,911 comments) says:

    ‘Kea (42) Says:
    September 10th, 2012 at 8:54 pm
    Nostalgia: Your primitive backwards beliefs are my business when they impact on myself and others. History (and current events) show the dangers of basing decisions on faith over reason.

    I note you show the classic signs of religious intolerance by suggesting I should have “no right” to express my views.

    Well tough! Your sensitive feelings and ego do not remove my right to free speech.’

    Need a napkin, a hanky maybe?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Kea- “Not my field sorry Redbaiter.”

    Sorry. I just assumed that because you are so scornful of those who believe in a creator that you would know the answer.

    “You have an internet connection and (maybe) a library card.”

    I’ve no need to answer the question.

    I’m agnostic. You are the atheist.

    And one who seems quite at home to qualify as one of those I described in my earlier comment. (8:26)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. RightNow (6,659 comments) says:

    “But what was this Big Bang thing?”

    Well clearly that was God coming into existence. Otherwise God either had to evolve into God or be created. But evolution is a crock and God is the only being capable of creation. Ergo, God came to exist via a big bang event.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Reid (15,947 comments) says:

    Well clearly that was God coming into existence.

    Haven’t you ever read even Genesis 1:1 RightNow?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. TheContrarian (1,074 comments) says:

    The “Big Bang” and “God” are both theories..there is no evidence for either, therefore neither will ever be proven.”

    Actually god is not a theory, god is a hypothesis at best.
    Secondly there is quite a fair bit of evidence for the big bang. Observational, mathematical and via simple geometry.

    But why should I spend my time explaining my hours of reading to someone who has seemingly refused to simply go to the library and find out themselves.

    Instead they sit around complaining that they haven’t seen the evidence they haven’t bothered looking for.
    How about I give you a reading list then we can debate specifics.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Nostalgia & Redbaiter, are you two on the piss together and posting from your phones?

    Its a bit early in the week for that sort of carry-on !

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. wtfunz (133 comments) says:

    It must have been Shearer who was behind the move to shift the Motor way at Meremere due to the famous Waikato Taniwha. That cost us tax payers hundreds of thousands. It was well worth it though because if you look closely as you go past you’ll see David sucking it off with the rest of the Labour losers clapping and and cheering him on. No Maoris in sight though as they fall down laughing everytime they think about the giant con they pulled on the honkies. Great entertainment

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. UpandComer (506 comments) says:

    Believing in God and believing in Taniwhas are not equivalent.

    When was the last time a group of Catholics went out and sat on construction equipment saying that they weren’t going to move because building a necessary road might offend God or the Vatican.

    The problem is that there seem to be Taniwhas in every river, inlet, and harbour.

    People having a belief in God don’t regularly hold up resource consents now do they.

    Taniwha’s are more the equivalent of believing in the world of Narnia.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    BTW Nostalgia, you said the following:

    I wasn’t talking about my beliefs which are my own business, I was accepting that other people having the right to their own beliefs without ridicule…

    Now that makes you a two faced hypocrite. Kiwiblog is full of you expressing your beliefs and ridiculing those who do not share them.

    Why the double standards, or do you just have no moral compass at all ?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. swan (659 comments) says:

    “The “Big Bang” and “God” are both theories there is no evidence for either, therefore neither will ever be proven.”

    There is a lot of evidence for the big bang. The big bang is a theory. It does not answer the question of existence, but it does help to explain what basically happened from (just after) the beginning of time.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    lol…egg^^^

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Some of these bible thumpers need to learn a bit about their own religions. Even that bastion of backward thinking and ignorance, the Catholic Church, recognises Darwinian evolution. Many other followings do not dispute scientific accounts of how the universe began. They have changed their view. Just like they no longer require rape victims to marry their attackers (Deuteronomy 22:28-29) and even consider the woman as the victim, rather than her father. It is no longer considered a property crime, as it was before. Now that is progress, in a theists mind.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. Jack5 (4,589 comments) says:

    Comparing Christianity and taniwhas is comparing microchips with firesticks (and I haven’t been a Christian for a long time, if ever).

    Western civilisation has been heavily influenced by Christianity, and that civilisation has given us electricity, air transport, computers, the internet, space travel, cars and multi-highways, trains, container ships and tankers, modern medicine, and an intellectually rich, advanced culture.

    Taniwhas come from a Stone Age culture that didn’t even have the wheel.

    It’s time to move on and recognise taniwhas for what they are: merely an anthropological curiosity. Sadly, the liberals who rightly oppose Creation theory, won’t have the courage to oppose the rise of taniwha mythology. Some Maori values are worth absorbing into our culture. Taniwhas, like cannibalism, deserve to be discarded.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    Actually I’d say that we can dismiss Christopher Hitchens – since by his own admission he has asserted without evidence.

    I’d say we can dismiss Christopher Hitchens because he’s a confused, nasty drunk.

    Oh, and he’s also dead.

    Funny that, an atheist that believes in no afterlife then proceeds to drink himself to an early death while scowling at all and sundry.

    Now he’s dead,….. dead-diddly-dead.

    But his christian brother is still alive, and writing best sellers, and is a thoroughly pleasant chap and isn’t dead.

    Tell me folks, which ‘Hitchens’ is the most rational??

    Atheists are f@ckin morons.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    There is a lot of evidence for the big bang. The big bang is a theory. It does not answer the question of existence, but it does help to explain what basically happened from (just after) the beginning of time.

    Oh ok, so we should just look to the atheists and listen to them say:

    “Hey folks, it looks as though something outside of space/time possessing astonishing power caused our existence. Because we are part of the universe and inextricably bound by the laws within it, we can never determine what that may be. By definition this event was supernatural as it occurred outside of natural laws. Please don’t spend anytime thinking anymore about this because that would be silly and we don’t like answering or even pondering philosophical questions about our existence. If you have a problem with this it’s because you’re a sky fairy worshiping moron and worthy of utmost ridicule. SO remember folks, don’t think until we say it’s ok again. Yours sincerely, the international atheists collective”

    Atheists are f@ckin morons.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. Griff (6,765 comments) says:

    Kea this is kiwi blog the commentators all have strong views especially the god squad
    After a while you realise that the god squad are mostly not worth arguing with and only deserve the piss taken out of them
    There are a few who are Christians that I deeply respect. Mostly those that do not follow blindly the dogma of a specific sect and act from a stand point of truth honesty and integrity. The good ones quietly tolerate the scorn piled open their less enlighten brethren as they understand how and why it is earned

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Point taken Griff. Just look at some of the stuff above, these good Christian folk have gone over the edge.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. Griff (6,765 comments) says:

    oh and shunde why must you try to define what is “outside” of our universe as god. Aways the fear of the infinite scares the godly
    Comparing Christianity and taniwhas both are anthropological curiosity’s just one has evolved in a more enlighten time due to the protoscience of the Greeks

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Now he’s dead,….. dead-diddly-dead.

    But his christian brother is still alive, and writing best sellers, and is a thoroughly pleasant chap and isn’t dead.

    Tell me folks, which ‘Hitchens’ is the most rational??

    Atheists are f@ckin morons.

    You make a compelling and “rational” argument Shunda barunda. After reading that important message I will reconsider my atheist position and sleep on it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    these good Christian folk have gone over the edge.

    What good Christian folk? does the “eff” word offend you? does it offend Jesus? did I ever suggest I was good? do you think I am Jesus Christ?

    It’s always a laugh hearing atheists tell non atheists how they should behave.

    Personally, I think Jesus would rather someone be who they are, when they are, than putting on a holy facade that only deludes themselves and others.

    When I hit my hand with a hammer I say “fuck”, Jesus forgives me, so should you.

    Atheists will endure and endorse any amount of vitriol from the likes of Dawkins and Hitchens yet become so judgmental toward a person of faith that simply refuses to “act” the part.

    I’m a filthy dirty stinking sinner, and by the grace of God go I.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    oh and shunde why must you try to define what is “outside” of our universe as god. Aways the fear of the infinite scares the godly

    Hey, at least we are brave enough to have a philosophical discussion on the most important subject of all.

    “The big bang theory, scaring the crap out of atheists since 1927″

    Turns out a Christian physicist came up with the theory and had some real difficulty due to a certain….ahem….”religious group”…:

    The fact that Lemaitre was a Roman Catholic priest concerned some, as he was putting forth a theory which presented a definite moment of “creation” to the universe. In the 20′s & 30′s, most physicists – like Einstein – were inclined to believe that the universe had indeed always existed. In essence, the Big Bang theory was seen as “too religious”

    To religious indeed.

    (But they don’t like to talk about that now) ;)

    Aint reality a bee-arch?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. Ryan Sproull (7,030 comments) says:

    What good Christian folk? does the “eff” word offend you? does it offend Jesus?

    It was probably more the “yeehaw, a guy I disagree with drank himself to death!” they were referring to.

    I’m a filthy dirty stinking sinner, and by the grace of God go I.

    Might be missing the point of the original phrasing there.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    It was probably more the “yeehaw, a guy I disagree with drank himself to death!” they were referring to.

    Oh, I see, I disrespected one of their prophets and now I am getting persecuted for it.

    You should see the cartoon I drew of him, get me stoned for sure!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. Ryan Sproull (7,030 comments) says:

    Oh, I see, I disrespected one of their prophets and now I am getting persecuted for it.

    You should see the cartoon I drew of him, get me stoned for sure!!

    No, it’s just the general disrespect of a human being, I think. Could be that they’d be less concerned if you were gleeful over someone else’s premature death by drinking. You’d have to ask them.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. Black with a Vengeance (1,552 comments) says:

    Taniwhas come from a Stone Age culture that didn’t even have the wheel.

    PFFFFT…wheels are for pussies.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. Shunda barunda (2,965 comments) says:

    No, it’s just the general disrespect of a human being, I think. Could be that they’d be less concerned if you were gleeful over someone else’s premature death by drinking. You’d have to ask them.

    What utter crap.

    Disrespect for a human being? I’m sorry, have I wandered over to the institute for fluffy kittens and cute puppies? I thought I was on Kiwiblog.

    If you or anyone else here thinks because Christopher Hitchens is dead, that somehow cements his opinions in stone and makes anyone that points out his highly ironic demise a monster, you have entered the realm of religious devotion to your prophets.
    He was outspoken and often outright nasty, he addressed important issues of life and existence and that therefore makes his life and existence up for discussion.

    I do not believe that Christopher Hitchens was a rational person, a rational person doesn’t smoke and drink himself to death.
    We have a remarkable comparison between himself and his brother, Peter, who claims to be a Christian and holds completely different values yet comes from exactly the same background. Peter Hitchens will surpass his brother by a very wide mark in his contribution to human society.

    The irony is deafening.

    There is no one so irrational as those that claim to be rational.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. Liberal Minded Kiwi (1,563 comments) says:

    You just need to even mouth the words “god” and you’ll get all the crazy god squad in to preach to us all that they are the chosen ones and all others are weak replicas, such a taniwha, which are of course, fucking ridiculous. But then again so are angels. So are people that heal people. The list is endless. It’s obvious the weak minded need to believe in these things to get them through the day, but thankfully the majority of us don’t need fairys.

    Anybody that believes the earth is only 6000 or so years old that was created by one person over 6 days needs their heads read. I see Redbaiters meds are working fantastically as well – lets get a few more of you on them.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. V (668 comments) says:

    Even if science did by chance discover a ‘God’, the next question would be what created it … science is a method of enquiry, not a religion.
    But I accept discussion of what caused the big bang, or what was before it is fascinating. Indeed the notion of time and existence itself is fascinating. What is time, energy, etc,
    Perhaps it is likely to be beyond the comprehension of the human mind (at least for the time being).

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. Cactus Kate (545 comments) says:

    Brian Smaller (3,747) Says:
    September 10th, 2012 at 7:58 pm
    I am getting sick of this. I killed all dragons, taniwha and jaberwockies so they are extinct and can have no bearing on anything any more.

    >> have not read a better comment on KB in a long time

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. hj (6,350 comments) says:

    “Labour Party leader David Shearer has long-held beliefs that taniwha must be respected when it comes to Maori and their interests in water. His views can be traced back to his masters thesis, and he stands by them today.”
    …………
    As we no longer have compulsory unionism, the rank and file no longer have a voice. New Zealand Labour is no longer represented, instead we have people like Shearer (John Cambell, Paul Holmes) who believe that they hold superior views to the rank and file.

    In the absence of compulsory unionism we are over represented by hyper egos of the sort who are jumping out of their skin to show off their morally superiority on Jim Moiras the Panel (Brian Edwards, Michele A Corte(?). Yesterday Jeremy Ellworthy lamented that he is castigated as a “do-godder” he doesn’t understand what is bad about that as he advocates for more refugees etc. A do-gooder is someone who lets in too many people and crashes the welfare system.

    Helen Clark:

    For example, I met Helen Clark while I was in Wellington. I was invited to her official residence, and waved in by a lone policeman who didn’t even check who I was, then I had a barbecue with her. I congratulated her on the public’s enlightened attitudes towards racial issues, but she disagreed. She said to me that New Zealand was really a very racist country , and she was determined to do everything she could as prime minister to change that.

    Could that have had anything to do with this?

    But how things have changed. Population statistics confirm what should be apparent to anyone walking down Auckland’s Queen Street: New Zealand has undergone a quiet revolution. In a remarkably short time, we have been transformed from one of the western world’s most homogeneous societies into one of the most ethnically diverse. Spoonley describes Auckland as one of the world’s major destination cities, comparing it with Toronto and Vancouver.

    Not only has immigration increased, but immigrants have become far more visible because many of them are from China, India, Korea and the Philippines.

    And although this is most obvious in our biggest city, don’t make the mistake of thinking it’s purely an Auckland thing. Overall, 23 percent of the New Zealand population in 2006 (our most recent census, since the one scheduled for 2010 was cancelled after the Christchurch earthquake) was born overseas.

    To someone of my generation, this is a change of staggering proportions.

    As revolutions go, it could hardly have been quieter. I don’t recall the government making a dramatic policy announcement to the effect that New Zealand would be opening its doors to the world. There was no great debate, no public meetings. It happened incrementally and largely without fuss.

    http://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/karl-du-fresne-quiet-demographic.html

    Do-gooder?
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/4622459/Government-policies-blamed-for-house-prices

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. hj (6,350 comments) says:

    I’m not advocating for compulsory unionism but I’m just pointing out that (taniwha thesis people)
    like Shearer have filled the vacuum.

    May Chen noted on a discussion about NZ population that Owen Glen said “oh but we have enough people already” :shock:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. hj (6,350 comments) says:

    Here after the Labour Leadership shall be known as the “Taniwha Thesis people”. FOTP: Federation of Taniwha Thesis People.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. Manolo (13,367 comments) says:

    You ought to be a fool, a moron, a politically-correct imbecile, a bullet-proof idiot to believe in such a Stone Age myth, the taniwha.

    Each party has the “leader” it deserves. Undoubtedly, Shearer and the Labour Party are made for each other.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. Brian Smaller (3,990 comments) says:

    Nostalgia-NZ (1,254) Says:
    September 10th, 2012 at 8:29 pm

    Possibly one of David Shearer’s best statements of the year. It defines him as a leader.

    Yeah – boldly leading the Labour Party into the pre-European Era of NZ history.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. Bogusnews (443 comments) says:

    Interesting comments about stars. Before I become interested in Astronomy I thought that stars naturally formed in precisely the manner described (particles leading to crushing gravity and nuclear reaction to fuse hydrogen atoms into helium and so on.) However it is not that simple. Many factors need to come into line to make a star. It is actually extraordinary that we have so many of them. It is also extraordinary that our sun is so peaceful (in relative terms) and a key reason why humans have been able to get established on earth. We don’t really know yet quite why our sun is so friendly.

    It is also interesting that the largest number of creationists (among scientists) are astronomers. Even Einstein said that when you research natural order, it no longer seems to be an accident, but the end result of a vast, inconceivable great mind.

    But who knows.

    What I have learned about Taniwhas however is how easy they are to get rid of. I heard Maurice Williamson say that whenever a dreaded Taniwha was lurking in a lake or under a road or whatever they just gave the troubled Maori some money and it went away never to be heard from again (until they thought they could get some more money that is).

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  91. RRM (9,453 comments) says:

    Fuck it, why not? Give us all the Taniwha crap too.

    We have enough references in our legal and government institutions to the invisible, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient creator spirit from the Islamic / Judeo-Christian mythology as it is. It seems like such a small additional stretch to add mythical Maori water-spirits in there too… it almost seems hypocritical not to.

    Our invisible benevolent creator spirit,
    who art in thy invisible benevolent place,
    please keep us safe from all the things which
    we don’t understand yet and find a bit frightening.
    We are uncomfortable with the apparent mortality animals
    So some kind of fanciful eternal life theory would be nice too…

    I can sacrifice part of the hunt, or a child if that will make you more amenable to listening to us…?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  92. KiwiGreg (3,176 comments) says:

    Have a read about what Mormons believe (or for that matter any of the religions). Taniwha are no more or less believable. I do wonder at what is missing inside people that they need to believe in magic to get by, but a lot of people have been doing it for a long time.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  93. Griff (6,765 comments) says:

    A new multi cultural twist to the national anthem
    god of nations at……….
    taniwha defend New Zealand.

    No dumb idea invasion by koha

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  94. graham (2,215 comments) says:

    Christopher Columbus, Samuel Morse, Isaac Newton, the Wright Brothers, Copernicus, Galileo, Pascal, Isaac Newton, Faraday.

    Yeah, I wonder what was missing in these people that they needed to believe in God? After all they were all such losers.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  95. graham (2,215 comments) says:

    Someone mentioned the Big Bang Theory earlier. Anyone know who proposed the Big Bang Theory? Here’s a clue – he also proposed the theory of the expansion of the Universe (which pissed off Einstein, who initially refused to accept the idea of an expanding universe – http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/Cyberia/Cosmos/ExpandUni.html).

    Here’s another clue – he was a priest.

    Belief in God doesn’t mean you don’t necessarily reject every scientific discovery ever made. I personally find it fascinating looking at how science and God can co-exist side by side quite happily a lot of the time.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  96. Dave Mann (1,168 comments) says:

    The word ‘belief’ is the giveaway to a person’s position on the existence of God and also taniwhas…. particularly the belief that these invented concepts have the ability to interact with you on a moral and personal level. This is the difference between the big bang and God.

    As an atheist I do not believe in things that cannot be strongly indicated either by reason or science and I do not feel the need to fill my lack of total understanding with some sort of comforting delusion. I don’t know what caused the big bang…. but I have the mental and emotional strength to admit it and I don’t need to invent silly stories to fill in for my uncertainty.

    Reason. Thinking it through using logic and what we know from science, I find it impossible to ‘believe’ in God, fairies, taniwhas and all the other invented claptrap and so I call myself an atheist.

    p.s. my phone’s predictive text capitalised the word God and I couldn’t be bothered to change it,
    although I do know some Christians (there it goes again) who would argue that there is spiritual deity making this happen and acting through an unbeliever ha ha ha ha…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  97. Griff (6,765 comments) says:

    graham some of your persons posted as Christian where not a good choice
    Galileo does not need an explanation
    Isaac Newton, and Isaac Newton,
    According to most scholars, Newton was a monotheist who believed in biblical prophecies but was Antitrinitarian ‘In Newton’s eyes, worshipping Christ as God was idolatry, to him the fundamental sin’

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  98. graham (2,215 comments) says:

    Fair enough, Dave Mann. My own reasoning leads me to believe it is impossible not to believe in God (with or without a capital ‘g’ :)).

    Just out of interest, are you one of the many atheists who believe the Big Bang theory is a religious hoax? I’ve read one atheist viewpoint that was really annoyed that “Unbelievingly, after resisting for a long time, Einstein, and most of the scientific establishment, capitulated to the idea of the Big Bang by the influence of no less than a monk: George Lemaître.”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  99. Dave Mann (1,168 comments) says:

    @graham No I’m not one of those atheists. Also, I understand that your use of the word ‘belief’ in this context is probably merely a linguistic quirk, but it does rather illustrate my point that believing something is often confused with thinking something through rationally, hehehe :-)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  100. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Most atheists are merely suffering from neo-Marxist indoctrination.

    That’s why they usually don’t have a fucking clue what they’re talking about.

    As is so well demonstrated by the shallowness of the comments above from Kea et al.

    They’re anti-Christian, and that is as far as it goes.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  101. big bruv (13,292 comments) says:

    “Believing in God and believing in Taniwhas are not equivalent”

    Of course they bloody are. Both are nothing more than stone age superstition.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  102. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    Most atheists are merely suffering from neo-Marxist indoctrination.

    Atheists have been around for a lot longer than neo-anythings or Marxists, making that statement nothing more than yet another excuse to push unsubstantiated nonsense. They’ve been around a lot longer than Christians too.

    I’m atheist but I’m not anti-Christian.

    It’s interesting that redbaiter usd to deny any connection to being Christian, but now he has attached to the CCCP he is showing why, without actually coming out and saying it.

    Being an extreme Christian conservative explains a lot about his straight jacketed views and intolerance of any alternate views.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  103. wreck1080 (3,730 comments) says:

    Believing in god or a taniwha is irrelevant.

    But, I will object when such beliefs cause construction of a straight road to divert around a rock at great cost — in the way of additional construction costs and payouts to greedy iwi who take advantage of the stupid pakeha.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  104. graham (2,215 comments) says:

    Dave Mann – very true!

    I must remember to ask the scientist, the University professor, and the various school-teachers at my church whether they thought through their beliefs rationally or just arrived at them without thinking them through. Could be one way to stir them up … :)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  105. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Peter Grudge- “Being an extreme Christian conservative explains a lot about his straight jacketed views”

    Another example of the cowardly, baseless and always false allegations that typify PG’s contributions.

    As for my “straight jacketed views”, they’re a lot more popular than the whining wittering stand for nothing compromises that you’re constantly suggesting.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  106. big bruv (13,292 comments) says:

    “As for my “straight jacketed views”, they’re a lot more popular than the whining wittering stand for nothing compromises that you’re constantly suggesting”

    Oh really?….so Colin Craig is going to sweep into power at the next election is he?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  107. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    As is so well demonstrated by the shallowness of the comments above from Kea et al.

    Yes I wish I had the depth to come out with profound statements, such as:

    What caused the big bang, and what went bang so bigly, and what did it go bang in?

    I am sure many Christian folk cringe at your posts.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  108. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Kea- “I am sure many Christian folk cringe at your posts.”

    You should be careful about so arrogantly speaking for so many others.

    I doubt you’d have a clue what any number of Christians might be thinking.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  109. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    No I won’t be careful thanks Red. I will speak my mind.

    History (and current events) record how you religious folk regard freedom of speech. On one hand you, quite rightly, bemoan the thought/speech control of the cultural marxists, then go on to do much the same thing in support of what you consider politically correct.

    In your haste to defend your superstitious beliefs, you have over looked considerable common ground between us.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  110. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    See, that’s what I mean by thick and a waste of time.

    I have already stated quite clearly that I am agnostic, and this point went right over your head.

    Just another dumb Marxist educated indoctrinated atheist whose immersion in socialist government schools taught him all about Progressivism at the expense of teaching him how to read and comprehend.

    You’re probably useless at maths too.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  111. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    Classic RB:

    “You should be careful about so arrogantly speaking for so many others. ”

    “Well, we have Shearer’s position. What is Key’s position. The same I reckon.”
    “Most atheists are merely suffering from neo-Marxist indoctrination.”
    “They’re anti-Christian, and that is as far as it goes.”

    “Dunno about you, but it looks like rank hypocrisy to me.”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  112. b1gdaddynz (279 comments) says:

    I’m not religious and I have nothing against those who are but I don’t think any religious or cultural beliefs should be included in Laws that are applied to all. Other than protecting the right to have those views that is!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  113. Griff (6,765 comments) says:

    More popular ! than colonic irrigation?

    We are not your fan club masturbatory. That exists only on truelywarpedblue and then only because you delete any one who thinks other wise. We think that your contribution is valuable because it gives insight into a sadly deluded and mostly ignored sector of society

    The equivalent of taniwha in the western world is troll so on the at basis is reddy KBs own taniwha? Will koha make him depart ? prayer? or will he just wake up to his delusion and do a phillu never to bless this blog with his considered opinion again?

    Red baiter Have you asked penny out yet? You should include phillU and have a delusion de trios.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  114. Ryan Sproull (7,030 comments) says:

    If you or anyone else here thinks because Christopher Hitchens is dead, that somehow cements his opinions in stone and makes anyone that points out his highly ironic demise a monster, you have entered the realm of religious devotion to your prophets.

    And if I said that, Shunda, I’m sure I would have entered that realm. But that’s not what I said. What I said was the reason someone might refer to your words as poor examples of Christian values is not, as you suggested, because you say “fuck”, but rather because you expressed such glee in the man’s death. Could be wrong, they might have been referring to you swearing, but that would be my first guess.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  115. alephnaught (16 comments) says:

    It’s so easy to be dismissive of something you don’t understand and have never given any serious thought. If you actually ask a Maori person about taniwha you’ll realise that it’s a metaphor for less-tangible spiritual, cultural, and even amenity values that are traditionally associated with waterways.

    When you’re dealing with people of a different culture to your own you can’t simply take everything they say at face value if you have any hope of actually coming to an understanding about anything.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  116. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Classic PG. A complete failure to read and comprehend.

    Ever wonder why so many blogs have banned you PG, when your language is always so perfectly politically correct?

    I’ll tell you.

    You haven’t ever demonstrated the slightest ability to read what others have said or to follow an argument. Almost every comment you make is a senseless waste of kilobytes based on totally misconstruing what others have said.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  117. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    If you actually ask a Maori person about taniwha you’ll realise that it’s a metaphor for less-tangible spiritual, cultural, and even amenity values that are traditionally associated with waterways.

    That’s a very good point.

    I presume there are varying Maori opinions on what ‘taniwha’ means, but I doubt many believe it’s a water monster that will jump out and grab you.

    That’s similar to most Christians who don’t believe God is a being sitting on a cloud making and controlling and determining everything.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  118. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Grief- “That exists only on truelywarpedblue and then only because you delete any one who thinks other wise.”

    I know it’s fruitless asking you not to lie, so I won’t ask it.

    My comments on Whale’s blog where there is a means of measuring their popularity are always well marked up and so were they when Kiwiblog ran a similar system.

    Your just another amoral and therefore useless Progressive who will lie and smear anyone at the drop of a hat if you think it will help your cause.

    There are far too many out there like you, and its why Christians with a strong moral base are so much more value in any political battle than any unprincipled neo-Marxist indoctrinated amoral Progressive like you.

    In your political and moral confusion, you (collectively) are the hard left’s greatest ally, and the main reason they have been winning for so long.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  119. kowtow (7,625 comments) says:

    Religous folk and freedom of speech?

    Why drag up ancient history when there are so many current secular abuses of free speech.

    Bolt’s trial in Oz.
    Steyn and Human rights commission in Canada.
    Wilders in Holland.
    Galiano and Bardot in France.
    Holocaust deniers going to gaol or banned from travelling.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  120. Ryan Sproull (7,030 comments) says:

    Interesting that, like so many religious discussions, we’ve turned to whether a spiritual concept is meant to be interpreted literally or allegorically.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  121. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Many people claim to be a Catholic/Muslim/Hindu/Jew in a cultural context, rather than a literal interpretation of their religion. I personally know of Jews and Muslims who doubt the existence of God, but still identify themselves by their religious upbringing. Many regard themselves as “spiritual” but have little time for organised religion.

    I often find the “new age/truth seeker” types the most intolerant and judgmental of them all. My comments apply to them as much as the mainstream followings.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  122. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    when your language is always so perfectly politically correct?

    Very funny. Why do you hissy fit at my perfect political correctness?

    I’ve also often been accused of fence sitting, a different name for the same sort of diss. Odd then that those same people then try and knock me off the fence with the palings, wrench the fence posts out of the ground and beat me over the head with them. Why does something supposedly neutral and benign scare the handcartists so much?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  123. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Sorry PG, wasted far too much time on your worthless garbage already today.

    Excellent points on secularist attacks on freedom of expression Kowtow. Don’t forget their jailing of persons who have spoken out against and publicly confronted the homosexual social/ political agenda.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  124. Brian Smaller (3,990 comments) says:

    It’s so easy to be dismissive of something you don’t understand and have never given any serious thought. If you actually ask a Maori person about taniwha you’ll realise that it’s a metaphor for less-tangible spiritual, cultural, and even amenity values that are traditionally associated with waterways.

    When you’re dealing with people of a different culture to your own you can’t simply take everything they say at face value if you have any hope of actually coming to an understanding about anything.

    What a load of codswallop. When those metaphors can be appeased by money, you know it is bullshit.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  125. Griff (6,765 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (745) Says:
    September 11th, 2012 at 11:20 am

    Sorry PG, wasted far too much time on your worthless garbage already today.

    Translation I am “special” and find it difficult to have a valid view so can not enter into debate but you are a (insert tirade of abuse).
    There are medications and surgical interventions available for the relief of the symptoms of Coprolalia red have you discussed them with your health care professional?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  126. Brian Smaller (3,990 comments) says:

    When I was a kid growing up in Wanganui, my Aunty Huia used to tell us of the taniwha that lived in the river under Bastia Hill. It wasn’t a metaphor for the river itself, or some value placed on the waterway. The taniwha was presented a physical thing – an actual beasty that needed placating or he got angry and swallowed canoes etc. He never seemed to bother the guys from Union Rowing Club though.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  127. my 2 cents (1,091 comments) says:

    Excellent Brian.
    “appeased by money, then you know it is bullshit.”

    just delicious.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  128. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Grief- “Translation I am “special” ”

    No, But I do think that's what so many of you homosexuals with your overpowering submission to your own innate narcissism believe.

    So you hate Christians and you also detest anyone who defends them.

    You also get anguished and nasty and bitter when called on your lies.

    Got anything else to contribute?

    I don't think so.

    (I’ve wasted far too much time on your worthless garbage too.)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  129. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Brian Smaller- “When those metaphors can be appeased by money, you know it is bullshit.”

    Well said Brian.

    It isn’t Christians who are blocking millions of dollars of investment in this country with stone age racist garbage designed to enrich one sector of society at the expense of all others.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  130. Griff (6,765 comments) says:

    Red you do astound one with your insight into the human condition
    Even with my post September 10th, 2012 at 10:51 pm “There are a few who are Christians that I deeply respect. Mostly those that do not follow blindly the dogma of a specific sect and act from a stand point of truth honesty and integrity. ” And the rather counter-intuitive fact that my life partner is a Christian woman you know better.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  131. Dave Mann (1,168 comments) says:

    No, But I do think that’s what so many of you homosexuals with your overpowering submission to your own innate narcissism believe.

    I haven’t got any idea who you are, Red, but I get a huge kick out of reading you, even though I don’t share your views. You are so preposterously insulting to almost everybody and even though your outbursts verge on the edge of insanity at times, your turns of phrase often make me laugh out loud. Thank you for that.

    I can’t help wondering, however, if in real life you might well be an insignificant, colourless mousy little man in an armchair who has invented this bluff, boisterous, self-confident alter ego and lives through its projection in cyberspace.

    Anyway, keep it up. You do it so well and you raise the spirits of so many.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  132. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Wow, thanks for those kind words Dave.

    They mean a lot.

    And I’m not what you wonder I might be. I am what you see here and its how I live my life.

    I have always believed it to be paramount to be true to one’s self.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  133. Paulus (2,501 comments) says:

    A simple Jerk – but that’s not new in Labour politicians.
    Am sure he will be dumped soon.
    I wonder if he can tell me where the Pakeha Taniwha is stealing the water from the hydro stations. Is it being funnelled off and sold on the black market ?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  134. duggledog (1,356 comments) says:

    Grant: ‘Go on David. You should tell them’

    David: ‘Really? You really think I should?’

    Grant: ‘Well you did a thesis on it. So you know what you’re talking about. Maoris back on side, Greens undermined, all in one fell swoop.’

    David: ‘I like your use of the word ‘undermined’. Clever. Thanks Grant. I’ll do it. So great to have you looking out for my ass’

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  135. SHG (363 comments) says:

    I hate to be the bearer of common sense in such a fun thread – and my apologies if someone has previously posted something similar, reading through this whole page was hurting my brain – but Shearer has said neither that he believes in taniwhas, nor has he suggested that anyone should. He has simply observed that, being New Zealand, we have to acknowledge that some people believe in taniwhas.

    When talking about issues of applied ethics in a Western society we cannot ignore the fact that some people believe in an invisible superhero who lives in the sky. I think they’re fucking retarded. But given the nature of our society we have to acknowledge that those people DO believe that.

    For me to claim that we have to acknowledge the fact that some people believe in an invisible superhero who lives in the sky is neither me asserting that such an invisible superhero exists, nor is it me asserting that you should believe in it yourself.

    This seems like a massive beat-up.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  136. Pete George (22,839 comments) says:

    Labour fights back:

    Grant Robertson ‏@grantrobertson1

    @patrickgowernz Paddy, I have one of your exercise books from 1986. Hard to believe you were that gullible about Santa Claus. #revealatsix

    Or maybe just having a chuckle. I did.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  137. graham (2,215 comments) says:

    SHG:

    … we cannot ignore the fact that some people believe in an invisible superhero who lives in the sky. I think they’re fucking retarded.

    Gee, thanks for those kind words SHG. And I’m sure there’s nothing you believe in, no philosophy that you follow, no system of ethics that you choose to live your life by, that would cause anybody to say, “Ummmm … you what?”

    Because everything you do and believe in will be right, and anybody who disagrees with you will be wrong. That’s how it works, isn’t it?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  138. alloytoo (432 comments) says:

    I think if invisible super-heroes want to impose on reality then invisible super-heroes should be held to performance criteria and safely ignored should they fail to perform.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  139. wtfunz (133 comments) says:

    Please reread:- Ex Shearer-
    In his thesis he advocated that “the belief in taniwha or spiritual pollution…while they may appear irrational to many…cannot simply be dismissed as irrelevant”. It’s a belief he still holds today.

    “I absolutely stick by that,” says the Labour Party leader. He says we should acknowledge taniwha. “We have been doing that for the last 20-something years when we have made decisions around water.”

    SHG – I’m not sure if you’re serious or taking the piss but I have to note the following. Yes – there are morons who believe in flying super hero’s but intelligent people in well run countries don’t build policies or “make decisions around” these nutters and the figments of their imagination unless there is suport from a vocal bunch of morons! Que in here the Gweens, the so called “intellectual liberals” (an oximoron if ever there was one) and the FDLM (falling down laughing Maoris). The latter have taken the piss to such an extent that not only have they convinced people like you but they’ve convinced themselves. By virtue of the above Shearer must believe in Taniwha as he supports the decisions being made around them and he will “absolutely stick by that”! How — ABSOLUTELY. This must be right for surely, what sane, rational, intelligent person would think policy should around something that is imaginary. If you have seen one though I’ll help market the business set up to let everyone see it. Please advise ASAP.
    SHG – please tell us you were taking the piss in trying to defend this imbecile.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  140. Manolo (13,367 comments) says:

    Let’s do not beat around the bush: SHG, you’re a moron with all credentials to the title!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  141. wat dabney (3,671 comments) says:

    I have always believed it to be paramount to be true to one’s self.

    Or one’s elf, in the case of Maori.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  142. SHG (363 comments) says:

    Read what Shearer said, not what 3news says Gower says Shearer said.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  143. SHG (363 comments) says:

    Graham said:

    Because everything you do and believe in will be right, and anybody who disagrees with you will be wrong. That’s how it works, isn’t it?

    Not at all. Rightness or wrongness has nothing to do with it. Those are moral terms, and I wasn’t making a moral claim. I was simply stating a fact, namely that I think people who believe in an invisible superhero who lives in the sky are fucking retarded.

    Surely a person who believes something that is quite obviously fucking retarded should be prepared for others to consider him fucking retarded for doing so? I mean, the fucking retardnedness is kinda self-evident. Not to have forseen being considered fucking retarded is quite shortsighted, don’t you think?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  144. Flyingkiwi9 (54 comments) says:

    There is no evidence for Taniwhas.

    There is no evidence for God (except the bible)…

    There is no evidence for the bible.

    Science is observable fact. It is has no bias, no right or wrong interpretation. It is what it is.

    Religion was created years ago as an answer to something we knew nothing about. Now however we are smart enough to know that, we don’t know everything and that, we might not ever know everything.

    The absence of this knowledge is not evidence for god.

    “We are all Atheists about most of the gods society has ever believed in; some of us just go one god further”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  145. wtfunz (133 comments) says:

    Well done SHG. Nice piss taking. Now we can all agree Shearer is retarded and more than likely a Rodgeror or Rodgeree of all Taniwha.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  146. Dave Mann (1,168 comments) says:

    Well said, Flyingkiwi9(9)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  147. Liberal Minded Kiwi (1,563 comments) says:

    Very true Dave – Redbaiter is the ultimate keyboard warrior. Away from the keyboard he is significantly quieter and a miserable old git. I can testify to that. All talk, no action… emphasis on no action.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.