General Debate 23 October 2012

October 23rd, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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122 Responses to “General Debate 23 October 2012”

  1. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    First!

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  2. b1gdaddynz (264 comments) says:

    So Scott Higginbotham will only miss one game per strike to Ritchie’s head! Apparently the knee to the head and the headbutt are at the lower end of offending and it wasn’t that hard?!? WTF if you did that to some one on the street you’d get and assault conviction! Will it take actually seriously injuring the guy before some thing gets done about this? I mean rugby is already starting to struggle with parents thinking it’s too dangerous especially in Australia and this would do nothing to disuade them of this opinion unless it is taken seriously and stamped out of the game. It’s good for soccer though!!

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  3. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    Something sinister? Or really just a test?

    A TV Station in the U.S showing election results on their news ticker (under the screen) showing that Obama had won the election weeks before it takes place. They’ve come out now (eventually) and said it was just a test. Some people are wondering…
    I wouldn’t put it past Obama and his grey ponytailed friends.

    The 2012 presidential election is still more than two weeks away, but on Friday a CBS News affiliate in Arizona called the race for President Barack Obama.

    For 17 seconds, Phoenix, Arizona CBS News affiliate KPHO ran a lower third graphic that showed that Obama had won the Nov. 6 election over Gov. Mitt Romney with 99% of the precincts reporting. The lower third graphic appeared around 3:30 p.m. on Oct. 19, during an episode of “The People’s Court.”

    The CBS News graphic showed Obama winning the election with 43 percent of the vote nationwide to Romney’s 40 percent -– or 40,237,966 votes to 38,116,216. It is unclear who garnered the other 17 percent in the fictional election results.

    KPHO’s general manager did not return The Daily Caller’s request for comment by time of publication.

    UPDATE 12:10 p.m.:

    Michele Wallace of KPHO told TheDC that this was the result of a mistake made with a test graphic:

    “On Friday October 19th during a test of KPHO- CBS 5’s election returns software we inadvertently aired a test graphic for about 15 seconds in an episode of Peoples Court,” Wallace said. “The mistake was caught quickly and taken off the screen. With the election about 2 weeks away, the TV station routinely tests its equipment to ensure our viewers have the very latest’s results on election night.  We regret the error and apologize to any viewer who was confused by the mistake.”

    http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/21/cbs-news-affiliate-calls-2012-presidential-race-for-barack-obama-weeks-ahead-of-election/#ixzz29zidtm00

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  4. Keeping Stock (9,788 comments) says:

    I think the title of my blog-post on this says it all b1gddadynz

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/sanzars-lily-livered-judiciary.html

    This is a disgraceful decision, made far worse because the judicial officer Jannie Lubbe has minimised Higginbotham’s offending, and made excuses for him. Significantly, Meneer Lubbe is the same bloke who cleared Quade Cooper of kneeing McCaw in the face in last year’s Brisbane test match. The worst aspect was the Higginbotham actually held McCaw’s head when he administered the Liverpool Kiss to ensure that he got a good shot in!

    It’s gutless stuff from SANZAR, and I make no apologies for saying so.

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  5. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    Technology would come to the rescue if only the wheels would stop falling off.

    “Whether the technology itself is a loser or consumers are merely slow to adapt to new things, car buyers so far haven’t embraced electric vehicles in numbers close to Obama’s goal. Electric-vehicle sales since 2011 totaled fewer than 50,000 through September, just 5 percent of the president’s target.
    “The reality is – that business model isn’t there yet,” said Brett Smith, co-director of manufacturing, engineering and technology at the Center for Automotive Research in Michigan. “It isn’t there yet for volume. It isn’t there yet for reaching the mass consumer. And it probably isn’t going to be there for a while.”

    http://www.sfgate.com/business/article/Electric-car-sales-falling-short-of-goal-3954153.php#ixzz2A3cnEvnh

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  6. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    How big can that tree grow in that small pot?

    “.. the latest Pew survey of 3,177 Chinese residents finds that many Chinese have grown more anxious over the past four years. Only 59 percent said they like the pace of modern life, down from 72 percent in 2008. The economy has grown at an average of around 9 percent per year over these four years–in fact, 70 percent of the respondents said they are better off financially than they were 5 years ago. But it turns out growth isn’t all that matters….”
    http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2012/10/what-people-worry-about-china/3616/

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  7. flipper (3,269 comments) says:

    Item 1.

    US Elections…. Gallup still calls it for Romney by 6 points on weeklynationwide rolling ave to Oct 21. Romney and Obama tied in key state Ohio. Romney ahead in Florida, North Carolina, and even in Penn.
    Many a slip possible, buit NOT looking good for OIbamination.

    Item 2.

    More Police traffic bullshit.
    Seven persons died in crashes and already the Police are claiming that alcoholic beverages were the root cause of the Gisborne crash that claimed four lives. Trouble with that is that the 58 year old driver is a WELL KNOWN abstainer (Fairfax).

    The other issue is the proclivity of Police and media to concentrate in the # of deaths. One is too many. But the only valid stat is the number of deaths per injury crash. This data was once available from gthe MOT (when they handled road policing), but is no longer made available unless under OIA request. A further point is that one crash may result in seven (7) deaths. Seven crashes may result in 7 deaths. It is thus a terrible game of chance. But the deaths per se figure is CRAP.

    Item 3

    The ever loving United Nations (Helen and Moon grad) has sent observers to check on the United States Presidential elections to ensure that minority rights are properly recognised. Guess where the monitors come from. That’s right. The usual democratic suspects – Ukraine, Pakistan, Miongolia, Vietnam, Venezuela, Camaroon, Wai-kick-a-moo-cow, et al……

    The US sometimes stuffs up its foreign policy because the majority if its 350 million citizens are self-centred (Where is Noo Zeeeland? Near Wisconsin, No?) . But elections? No

    Just Helengrad crap One report says some States will decline to allow the monitors access to any polling station – and they have threatened with arrest if they transgress. That would be great.

    Good morning ALL!

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  8. hmmokrightitis (1,458 comments) says:

    hj, Im sure electric cars day will come. It isnt now. I trded my gas guzzling Ford FPV in for a family friendly VW Passat Wagon. 2.0 TSI. On a long run I can get 1,000k out of a tank. I do Auckland or Wellington from New Plymouth without refilling. The ICE has come a bloody long way – and when I can accelerate like I can in this baby, to well over 200k, why would I bother with a toy car?

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  9. Alan Johnstone (908 comments) says:

    The betting markets show Obama well ahead, trading @ 1.50 vs 3.0 for Mitt. The Gallup poll is out of line with a lot of others. The president is a hot favorite and is still very likely to win. He shows ahead in early voting returns and his ground operation is better. He has 140 field offices in Ohio for instance vs 40 for Roomey. nothing is locked in stone, but Nate Silver has him with a 67% chance. http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/

    Keeping an eye of the Nazi graffiti thing today, no names published yet, but nearly identical things happened in Paris at the start of the year, all the guilty were Muslims; I’d expect the same here today; wonder how the media will handle that, it’s more trickey for them than a “white resistance” crime.

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  10. nasska (9,489 comments) says:

    The good burghers of New Plymouth will be shitting themselves at the the thought of the rates rise they will suffer next year. If the chill winds of of the GFC are blowing through the ‘rightitis’ household to the extent that the FPV has been junked in favour of fuel economy we can only speculate on the enormous pressure that will be going on the Council for a substantial wage increase. :)

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  11. wreck1080 (3,522 comments) says:

    The leasehold land on princes wharf Auckland is surely some kind of scam. Maybe it is a legal scam, but still one nonetheless.

    They have increased lease fees by 300% since 2005 — in the example an apartment has had its annual leasehold fees increase from 13k to 40k .

    The apartments have halved in value, some cannot even be sold.

    I looked at these apartments back in the day, but, didn’t like thought of paying lease fees. Never in the glossy brochures did it disclose that lease fees may triple in a few short years. Sure, there will be some terms about reviews etc, but, you’d not expect such a rise.

    I wouldn’t have thought that people who bought these places were ignorant — who would have anticipated such a surge in leasehold fees?

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  12. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    *Love Fest* *Love Fest* *Love Fest*

    09:20 What will New Zealand look like demographically over the next 50 years?

    Professor Paul Spoonley, Research Director for Massey University’s College of Humanities and Social Sciences.
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/ninetonoon

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  13. flipper (3,269 comments) says:

    Alan Johnstone….

    Go check

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com

    As for the other polls and the so called betting market …. I would go with Gallup. Their poll is a mix of intending voters and others, with very LARGE samples from both categories. Gallup’s established accuracy is superior.
    Also look at University of Colorado (picked every one accurately since 1980) ..and Suffolk. As of few minutes ago Ohio is LEVEL (that is L-E-V-E-L). So, AJ, look at the trend., Of course there can be many a slip…..BUT ….. :)

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  14. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    JESSICA – Let’s talk a little bit about that population spread. Why are so many people moving to Auckland?

    PAUL – Well, Auckland – there’s an agglomeration effect, so the bigger Auckland becomes, there more attractive it becomes. It becomes more attractive economically, but it also becomes more attractive as a place to live. And so we’re seeing the sort of perimeters of New Zealand, the regions, beginning to flat-line, so they’re not growing, and we’re now beginning to see the first of regions beginning to decline.
    Q+A
    JESSICA MUTCH INTERVIEWS PAUL SPOONLEY

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  15. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    Fast population growth over the past decade has strained infrastructure, boosted house prices and reduced the quality of life in the Auckland region.
    Rod Oram
    http://img.scoop.co.nz/media/pdfs/0705/RMA__Oram_Paper_May_2007.pdf

    THE case for higher immigration as a driver for economic growth is far from proven, as is the notion that more immigrants can counter the negative effects of population ageing, the Productivity Commission says.
    In an analysis of the “big Australia” debate in its 2011 annual report published yesterday, the commission said the economic impact of immigration “is sometimes clouded by misperception”.
    “Two benefits that are sometimes attributed to immigration, despite mixed or poor evidence to support them, are that immigration is an important driver of per capita economic growth, (and) immigration could alleviate the problem of population ageing,” it says.
     The commission also notes immigration doesn’t affect household wages overall, though particular sectors could be adversely affected if there were a large influx of skilled immigrants.
    And it warns that trying to slow the impact of an ageing population on the economy by bringing in young workers is only a sugar hit.
    “Any effect would be short-lived,” the report says. “This is because immigrants themselves age, and progressively higher levels of migration would be needed to sustain the current age structure into the future.”
    The commission affirms its view that government policy effort might be better spent internally “to improve the participation rates of … women over 45 and older Australians of both genders.”
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/immigration-link-to-economic-growth-yet-to-be-proven-says-productivity-commission/story-fn9hm1gu-1226179973978

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  16. Manolo (12,618 comments) says:

    Calling a spade a spade: http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/10/22/christie-what-the-hell-is-obama-doing-asking-for-another-4-years/

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  17. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    If Romney wins, who will be more upset? Obama or the news talk zb newsroom?

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  18. Manolo (12,618 comments) says:

    On today’s debate moderator: http://michellemalkin.com/2012/10/22/the-bias-of-bob-schieffer-top-7-moments/

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  19. flipper (3,269 comments) says:

    HJ….
    Population growth was a major foundation of the Fortress New Zealand economic policy introduced by Sutch/Lewin an adopted by the first Labour Government. The original target for 1970 was circa 5.5 million. It was only when Walsh and Skinner worked out what the immigration levels required would mean for unioins that the skids went under the policy and, to use the current in vogue phrase, they threw it “under the bus”.

    Population increase per se solves nothing. Oram? With his backgroynd, he would not know sh** from clay

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  20. Alan Johnstone (908 comments) says:

    Why with 10′s of millions invested a “so called market” ? It’s very real to me.

    Of course I’ve seen RCP, I’ve read it every day for 8 years, the RCP polling averages have the President ahead in Ohio, NV, NH & WI. RCP also has Obama ahead in EC votes.

    Even with Fla and NC Mitt simply doesn’t have many routes to 270 votes. I don’t dispute it’s tight and anything could happen, but Obama has a clear probability of winning, which is a shame because he’s a average at best potus

    Oh Gallups established accuracy isn’t actually that good. It didn’t perform well in 2008 and 2010.

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  21. Nookin (2,887 comments) says:

    Anyone see Peter Burns, aka D4J on Beyond the Darklands last night?

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  22. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    Professor Spoonley isn’t talking much about an input from New Zealanders he is talking about “how things will look” and “what things will look like”. Much like a farmer deciding how much fertiliser he should apply.

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  23. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    “for a family friendly VW Passat Wagon”

    Classless- like its owner.

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  24. Rufus (606 comments) says:

    Red – I get what you’re trying to do in general. And I say good on you.

    However, your message is totally lost by your antics.

    For example – your above comment is totally uncalled for. It serves no purpose whatsoever, adds nothing to any debate, and simply reinforces in people’s minds what a total dick you can be.

    I’ve read pieces by you on other forums where you set our a clear, logical, persuasive case, without the personal abuse and histrionics that permeate your posting here.

    I think you take things here far too personally. Chill out, try to stay objective, and leave the abuse out of it.

    I for one would appreciate such posts from you a lot more.

    How about playing the ball, not the player. Try it for one day. Most here will read this and scoff, but I reckon you could – if you wanted to.

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  25. Kimble (4,092 comments) says:

    OK screw all your other petty issues:

    SCIENTISTS JAILED IN ITALY FOR NOT PREDICTING EARTHQUAKES!

    Does the Western Civilization DESERVE to survive?

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  26. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    Thanks for the kind words Rufus, and you’re probably right, but contrary to rumour, I am only human with the usual failings, and when I see such insufferably self important self absorbed imbeciles (has he ever told you he runs incredibly long distances?) I sometimes just cannot help myself.

    Edit-

    Kimble- good subject. One has to ask how things can get so fucked up as for something as incredible as that to happen.

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  27. Rufus (606 comments) says:

    Red – you often cannot help yourself. And that doesn’t help your message.

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  28. Rufus (606 comments) says:

    Kimble – I understood they were jailed (well, not yet as they have to go through the appeal process first) because they made false re-assurances.

    Everybody at the top was so keen to avoid mass panic (note how they gagged the lone technician who had tried to raise the alarm in the previous weeks) that they sought to reassure people all was well – they couldn’t predict the earthquake, but equally, they couldn’t state conclusively that there wouldn’t be one.

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  29. Kimble (4,092 comments) says:

    Rufus, telling people that minor tremors dont necessarily mean a larger tremor is on the way is not a false re-assurance.

    It is the truth. It is good science.

    The fact a large earthquake then did occur doesnt make it untrue, or bad science.

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  30. Akaroa (487 comments) says:

    Re: Wreck1080 at 0919.

    Yes, Wreck, its the old Maori-land-screw-the-occupants/owners caper. Happens all over Auckland. When we moved up here from Wgtn four years ago one of the reasons for doing so was the prospect of buying a superb apartment in one of the waterfront Scenes at – in Wellington terms – a give-away, knockdown price. I think it was about $450K for three bedrooms and balconies on both the inland and wharf/harbour outlooks. But, – and here’s the kicker – also on Maori land!! And paying Maori ground rent.

    I thought – (being a cautious disbelieving sort of a bloke) – that this was too good to be true. The agent poo-poo-ed any suggestion that the nominal ground rent would ever rise, but I didn’t believe him!! And so hung off and bought elsewhere. Surprise! Surprise! the unlucky owners in the Scenes now face imminent phenomenal ground rent rises now that the land owners can adjust those rates – upwards of course.

    The same situation applies in respect of apartments elsewhere in Akl, some in Beaumont Street in Central Auckland, and, whilst i am not entirely au fait with the current situation there, i know that those owners have also had a horrific increase in ground rent recently.

    The moral? Don’t buy on Maori land!!

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  31. T-Dee (6 comments) says:

    Kim Dotcom obviously getting deperate having to use his bodyguard to say what a good guy he is. The body guard who had two unlicensed pistol handled shotguns at the mansion and bemoans the police treating him as a criminal.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10842233

    But shame on the NZH for giving this guy’s views of the Fraudster any credibility; he’s paid by him to say that FFS!

    And why the need for shotguns? To tackle any visits by the pornographers whose content the Fraudster was ripping off, I’d guess.

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  32. hj (5,677 comments) says:

    @ Akaroa
    The moral? Don’t buy on Maori land!!

    If it’s good enough for goose to charge high rents it’s good enough for gander.

    the wider issue, however, is applying aboriginal title to (just about) everywhere etc

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  33. Rufus (606 comments) says:

    Kimble – I too disagree with the scientist being convicted. However, your title is misleading.

    They are accused of giving reassurances they shouldn’t have. The argument is that they should have said “we don’t know”.

    Personally I think they are being made the scapegoats of a shitty natural occurrence. Seems more of a communist way of doing things, than an Italian.

    We live in a broken world, bad stuff happens. The net result will be that no Italian scientist will ever give their reasoned opinion when asked in public. The average joe still relies on those opinions and judgements to make up their own minds.

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  34. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    T-Dee, what are you?

    I’d guess (like Davinci and a few others who cluster at this blog), a National Party drone.

    You guys foolishly signed off on the paramilitary raid, the wrong legal orders, the invalid search warrant, the unlawful search and seizure, the removal of evidence from New Zealand against court instruction and, most recently, illegal spying by intelligence agencies, and by doing or allowing all of these incredibly stupid things, you gave Labour a stick to beat you with and so they should.

    Suck it up.

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  35. Elaycee (4,065 comments) says:

    Hard on the heels of DPF’s review of the BMW, comes this article about Audi’s latest:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/road-tests/7850573/This-is-the-thinkers-all-wheel-drive

    Cue Tui ad: My [insert name of cheap jappo] is way better than the Audi too…

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  36. Scott Chris (5,675 comments) says:

    Personally I think they are being made the scapegoats of a shitty natural occurrence.

    Yeah. Kinda like the CTV building construction manager. I’d be surprised if it wasn’t thrown out on appeal. Mind you, you’d think the Italian judicial system would be more enlightened. Rogue judge probably.

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  37. Scott Chris (5,675 comments) says:

    My [insert name of cheap jappo] is way better than the Audi too…

    It probably is.

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  38. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock- You concerns re player safety and welfare are admirable. It’s a pity Steve Hansen and co from your beloved All Blacks didn’t share the same concerns when Mealamu headbutted Moody….

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/our-experts/4334547/All-Blacks-hypocrites-over-Keven-Mealamu-ban
    “Kevvie was just clearing out a ruck”
    “Kevvie was provoked”
    “You are either with us or you are against us”

    Rugby fans with both eyes open find the howling and wailing coming from the All Black camp rather laughable and hypocritical…

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  39. Zapper (843 comments) says:

    One off incidents committed by the All Blacks are bad.

    A concerted campaign by opponents to take out our best player is slightly different (I think people not blinded by hate would see that).

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  40. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Zapper- If they wanted to take him out surely they would get a hooker and a centre to uplift him (off the ball) spear him, and dump him forcibly onto his shoulder/neck. Apparently there is “no case to answer” for deliberately injuring an opponent in this way…

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  41. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Apparently as a Country we should be “Ashamed”..

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7851278/Tribunal-slams-Crown-over-Urewera-Treaty-breaches

    I feel just terrible. Though Mr Finlayson and his trusty cheque-book should almost atone for this horrendous injustice…

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  42. big bruv (12,327 comments) says:

    WTF is Romney doing?

    Obama is cleaning his clock, while Obama goes on the attach Romney sounds like David Shearer bumbling through a TV interview.

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  43. b1gdaddynz (264 comments) says:

    I don’t approve of any act of thuggish behaviour on the rugby field and just because the judiciary got it wrong way back in 2005 with the O’Driscoll affair doesn’t in any way shape or form justify the deliberate and on-going targeting of one player and the pathetic penalties given out! If you think any past indiscretions justify this then you are a complete dick head!

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  44. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Fuck the treaty of waitangi tribunal..its full of racist one-eyed gravy trainers who are of little relevance to todays society. Go and sling ya hooks elsewhere you separatist scum.

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  45. big bruv (12,327 comments) says:

    Bloody hell!…..Romney is fighting back big time now.

    This debate is beginning to get personal, if Romney keeps pushing this line he may well get Obama to snap on live TV.

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  46. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    b1gdaddynz- You don’t find it even slightly ironic and hypocritical that All Black fans, who regularly use the mantra “This ain’t tiddleywinks” and “harden up sook” to somehow justify a series of vicious attacks by their own team on opposition players (think O’Driscoll spear, Mealamu headbutt, Tialata bite, Woodcock king-hit etc etc), are now crying blue murder that someone roughed up one of their own?
    The irony and hypocrisy is staggering…

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  47. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    My point being that despite being the finest rugby team on the planet the All Blacks are doing themselves a disservice by crying blue murder over any small incident of foul play against them. The All Blacks have been dishing it up and getting away with it for years…No wonder the rest of the rugby World finds them unpleasantly arrogant.

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  48. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Longknives.
    kneeing Ritchie in the head then headbutting him ?

    When have the ABs gone so low ?

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  49. iMP (2,149 comments) says:

    ANALYSIS of the 3rd Presidential debate which just concluded, is here:

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/analysis-3rd-presidential-debate

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  50. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Longknives.
    bet you are a South African import to New Zealand, Right ?

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  51. Nostalgia-NZ (4,685 comments) says:

    ‘the All Blacks are doing themselves a disservice by crying blue murder over any small incident of foul play against them.’

    I think that is an exaggeration. I don’t see that they’ve overplayed this or other incidents.
    I think you’re overplaying the exaggeration Longknives. It seems you want to re-visit other incidents in order to play this one down.

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  52. Manolo (12,618 comments) says:

    Romney look far more composed than the Messiah tonight.
    Two visions, only one possible election winner. Let’s hope is not the Kenyan.

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  53. KH (686 comments) says:

    Before we all get carried away and knock the Italian’s lets look a little more at the situation. Might not agree with the prosecutors, but it’s not just a simple backlash thing. And I am not insensitive to this. I missed the fatal incident in Assisi in 1997 by only twenty four hours

    ………” Prosecutors, who had only sought a four-year sentence, said they did not expect scientists to provide a precise forecast.

    But they argued the commission had given “incomplete, imprecise and contradictory” information on the danger after a meeting on March 31, 2009, a few days before the earthquake.

    The case is part of a wider controversy over the disaster in L’Aquila, which has been at the centre of a series of bitter rows over Italy’s disaster preparedness.

    Central Italy is continuously shaken by low level tremors, very few of which precede bigger earthquakes and they are generally marked by no more than a brief statement from civil protection authorities.

    Key to the dispute is the kind of cautious language, hedged by caveats and reserves which scientists typically use in predicting highly uncertain events, but which can be of limited use as a guideline for the general public.

    According to scientific opinion cited by prosecutors, the dozens of lower level tremors seen before the quake were typical of the kind of preliminary seismic activity seen before major earthquakes such as the one that struck on April 6.

    Instead of highlighting the danger, they said the experts had made statements playing down the threat of a repeat of the earthquakes which wrecked the town in 1349, 1461 and 1703, saying the smaller shocks were a “normal geological phenomenon”.

    Prosecutors, who had only sought a four-year sentence, said they did not expect scientists to provide a precise forecast.

    But they argued the commission had given “incomplete, imprecise and contradictory” information on the danger after a meeting on March 31, 2009, a few days before the earthquake.

    The case is part of a wider controversy over the disaster in L’Aquila, which has been at the centre of a series of bitter rows over Italy’s disaster preparedness.

    Central Italy is continuously shaken by low level tremors, very few of which precede bigger earthquakes and they are generally marked by no more than a brief statement from civil protection authorities.

    Key to the dispute is the kind of cautious language, hedged by caveats and reserves which scientists typically use in predicting highly uncertain events, but which can be of limited use as a guideline for the general public.

    According to scientific opinion cited by prosecutors, the dozens of lower level tremors seen before the quake were typical of the kind of preliminary seismic activity seen before major earthquakes such as the one that struck on April 6.

    Instead of highlighting the danger, they said the experts had made statements playing down the threat of a repeat of the earthquakes which wrecked the town in 1349, 1461 and 1703, saying the smaller shocks were a “normal geological phenomenon”.

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  54. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    we hear about gamechangers.
    wait for Thursday, NZ time. Trump time.
    Donald will drop a game changer.

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  55. b1gdaddynz (264 comments) says:

    Longknives- I can’t speak for others but I don’t approove of any thuggish behaviour no matter who is doing it! If Richie McCaw had done the same thing to Higginbothim I would be calling for a harsher penalty than 4 weeks so I can’t really see how I am being hypocritical; if you are going to reply to what I say you should stick to what I am saying not what others may be saying. Rugby is a hard man sport and as long as you are within the rules I agree it isn’t “tiddlewinks”!

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  56. chiz (1,095 comments) says:

    ASA upholds complaints over “swap your ginger kid for a ginger beer” ad.

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  57. Reid (15,513 comments) says:

    “We regret the error and apologize to any viewer who was confused by the mistake.”

    CBS for airing a graphic of Obama’s win in the Nov 6 election. It’s pathetic isn’t it. That the media feels the need to reach out to those so feeble their brows furrow and their eyes point to the sky cause hang on, it’s not 6 Nov yet. I mean, crikey. It is said in the US [average] education is so dumbed down a college degree is equivalent in difficulty to a high school graduate from the 1920′s-50′s. You can believe it can’t you.

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  58. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    All hail the mighty oil companies..pppfftt yeah right, needs to drop a bit faster ya greedy bastards. Oils at 88 bucks and the dollars very high against the US.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/7851106/Petrol-prices-on-the-way-down

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  59. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    we hear about gamechangers.
    wait for Thursday, NZ time. Trump time.
    Donald will drop a game changer.

    Donald Trump said on “Fox & Friends” Monday that he’ll reveal “very big” news about President Barack Obama by Wednesday but declined to give any hints about his plan.

    “Something very, very big concerning the president of the United States,” he said. “It’s going to be very big. I know one thing — you will cover it in a very big fashion.”

    Trump, who said he will announce the news on Twitter “sometime probably Wednesday,” suggested it could “possibly” impact the election.

    Speaking later to TMZ.com, Trump said he would make the announcement around “noon” on Wednesday and declined to say whether he had talked to the Obama or Romney campaigns about what he intended to disclose.

    “It’s a big fact,” Trump said. “I can’t talk about it ‘till Wednesday…We’ll see what happens.”

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  60. Reid (15,513 comments) says:

    This is a really interesting video on Romney.

    You may find it’s a bit slanted.

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/10/15/breaking-romneys-bain-capitol-drug-front-for-bush-cartel-video/

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  61. Tauhei Notts (1,509 comments) says:

    Betfair currently have Obama at $1.49 and Romney at $3.00.
    Romney has firmed in the market over the past two weeks, from about $3.40 I think.
    NewstalkZB commentators have been raving about Obama and how certain he is. But they would never ever put their money where their mouths are.

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  62. Nostalgia-NZ (4,685 comments) says:

    He looks more certain than after the first debate Tauhei Notts.
    I thought Jake Tanes sp? report on TV1 tonight was good.
    The debates have shown that Romney can think on his feet whereas earlier there were some doubts about that and his ‘gaffes.’
    Little apparent differences on Foreign policy, with the public’s attention focused on the economy.

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  63. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    “Betfair currently have Obama at $1.49 and Romney at $3.00.”

    Tauhei- Being a racing man I’d advise you to take the better odds of $9 on All Too Hard at Moonee Valley this weekend…

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  64. Reid (15,513 comments) says:

    This DSW Kiosk thing will possibly result in a resignation won’t it, given the issue was reported but not addressed. I wonder how it will play out?

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  65. chiz (1,095 comments) says:

    Part of the problem with the court judgement in Italy is that at the time that local scientists were saying there was no evidence for a forthcoming earthquake there was another scientist, using a technique that is known to be unreliable, was predicting an imminent earthquake. So when there was in fact an earthquake many locals tried to blame the other scientists for not predicting it as well.

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  66. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    Thank god the rugby season is almost over. One gets tired of the bowing and scraping when an AB deems to look in your direction. They have the same bodily functions just like us mere mortals.

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  67. Reid (15,513 comments) says:

    using a technique that is known to be unreliable

    I haven’t looked at the reports yet chiz but you’d think that would be the crux of a prosecution wouldn’t you. Has your research indicated the evidence for unreliability and/or why the court didn’t hear that evidence?

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  68. chiz (1,095 comments) says:

    The rogue scientist in question was using radon emission. Sometimes radon emission levels increase before an earthquake, sometimes they don’t, sometimes they increase even when there isn’t an earthquake forthcoming, so an increase doesn’t really tell you anything. Not sure what evidence was heard but the judge’s detailed reasoning apparently wont be out for quite a while.

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  69. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    I’m sorry RF Michael Jones and Bruce Robertson are not mere mortals, but having said that theres way too much rugby these days way too much.

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  70. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    TVNZ 1 “news” talking up the attacks on McCaw.

    They had the cheek to seek Tana Umaga’s view ,who said these incidents should be “severely” dealt with…….spear tackles for example?

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  71. Reid (15,513 comments) says:

    Obama: Some people say I’m stupid…

    https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/547323_3719098456055_1024648727_n.jpg

    Edit: Thanks chiz

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  72. Nostalgia-NZ (4,685 comments) says:

    chiz.

    I heard that as well.
    Most of it seems to be the language, speaking about it being normal is probably true in context of a quake prone area. The opinion that it was safer because it was venting isn’t so clear but I wonder what reliability can be given to predictions of such situations anyway or accepting that they’re absolutes – seems a bit like paying the crystal ball watcher and therefore expecting some certainty.

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  73. big bruv (12,327 comments) says:

    Did some fool call Michael Jones a mere mortal?

    Jones is the greatest All Black of all time and the greatest rugby player to ever pull on a pair of boots.

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  74. nasska (9,489 comments) says:

    There were three country churches in a small Kiwi town: Presbyterian,
    Anglican and Catholic. Each church was overrun with pesky opossums.
    One day, the Presbyterian church called a meeting to decide what to do
    about the possums. After much prayer and consideration they determined
    that the possums were predestined to be there and they shouldn’t
    interfere with God’s divine will.

    The Anglican group got together and decided that they were
    not in a position to harm any of God’s creations. So, they humanely
    trapped the possums and set them free a few kilometres outside of town.
    Three days later, the possums were back.

    It was the Catholics who were able to come up with the best and
    most effective solution: They baptized the possums and registered them
    as members of the church. Now they see them only on Christmas and
    Easter.

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  75. Reid (15,513 comments) says:

    Evidence of Obama’s Birth Certificate forgery accepted by a US state Superior Court.

    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/?p=353382

    Gee. I wonder if the MSM will say anything? No of course not. That would be “irresponsible.”

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  76. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    By crikey Reid I reckon your Orly Taitz may be related to our very own Penny, they look alike and both appear to be insane
    I especially like the part of her life story where she obtained her law degree from that hot bed of juresprudence – Taft Correspondence School

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  77. bc (1,251 comments) says:

    Imagine if Romney does win the election.
    The gloating and smugness from Fletch, tom hunter, Manolo et al will make Kiwiblog unbearable for a few days and will probably best be avoided. DPF will be hoping for an Obama win just to keep his page views up!

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  78. mikenmild (8,762 comments) says:

    Here’s the best background on Orly Taitz:
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Orly_Taitz

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  79. bc (1,251 comments) says:

    NZ Herald:
    A mother who abandoned five children in a van in the SkyCity carpark wants to become a social worker, a court has been told.

    The 29-year-old woman and her 39-year-old partner – who both have name suppression to protect their children – were sentenced in Auckland District Court today.

    Judge Grant Fraser granted the woman a discharge without conviction after hearing arguments from the woman’s lawyer Richard Slade.

    Mr Slade had asked for the discharge because the consequences of the offending would be out of proportion to the offence.

    He said the woman hoped to become a social worker and a conviction on her record could make that “difficult”.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10842357

    What a joke. No wonder our child abuse stats are a disgrace.

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  80. Reid (15,513 comments) says:

    Here’s the best background on Orly Taitz:

    You mean it’s not true?

    The gloating and smugness from Fletch, tom hunter, Manolo et al will make Kiwiblog unbearable for a few days and will probably best be avoided.

    Never mind bc. Whichever candidate wins, there’ll be an Iran war. That’s bound to help the global economy.

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  81. Rufus (606 comments) says:

    bc – from what I’ve seen, many social workers are total basket cases themselves.

    Not the type of people to help other messed-up people.

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  82. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    Imagine if Romney does win the election.
    The gloating and smugness from Fletch, tom hunter, Manolo et al will make Kiwiblog unbearable for a few days and will probably best be avoided.

    bc, won’t be any gloating from me, just a huge sense of relief.
    This is probably the most important election of the 21st century and will determine the route that America takes: either “forward” under Obama toward a European Union socialist-style economy of failure, or with Romney, who knows how to run a business and get it going again. He has plans to do the same for America – I hope voters let him try.

    Obama criticizes Romney for not laying out his plans step-by-step, and detail-by-detail, yet has none of his own.

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  83. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    kowtow… 7.53pm … Not the infamous Tana who was filmed by TV3 weaving down Cashel Mall a number of years ago and then blacklisted the TV Channel for showing it.

    A tosser with double standards who did not deserve the public recognition that he later received.

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  84. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    “appear to be insane”

    Same old cowardly left wing smear tactics.

    Hey morons, it matters not how you try to smear Orly Tait, the court has accepted her evidence of forgery at the hearing. If the court finds in her favour, guess who will look stupid? (Hint- not Orly)

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  85. Reid (15,513 comments) says:

    Russell Means passes over.

    http://www.zengardner.com/russell-means-graduates/

    I hope Tama Iti knew him well. I don’t know. I hope he did. For his (Means) life reflects the kind of mana-laden deep-water gravitas that lies at the heart of every single indigenous peoples claim. If you want to know what motivates Maori but find difficulty getting past media and historical overlays, study Russell Means life and works, for it reflects what we grapple with here, but in a different cultural setting, which means we can look straight through the emotion and look directly to the message.

    If the court finds in her favour, guess who will look stupid? (Hint- not Orly)

    Yes but they won’t RB. Whatever the veracity. That’s my prediction.

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  86. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    For fucks sake Red, she as mad as a hatter, the Court was obliged to accept it as it was offered as an exhibit, it means nothing.

    She might be your latest pin up but to the rest of the world she’s the Moldavian Penny

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orly_Taitz

    Read her Wiki, obviously its not Romney whose giving Obama the shits its orley- someone with the same grasp of reality that you have

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  87. Nostalgia-NZ (4,685 comments) says:

    ‘RF (348) Says:
    October 23rd, 2012 at 8:40 pm
    kowtow… 7.53pm … Not the infamous Tana who was filmed by TV3 weaving down Cashel Mall a number of years ago and then blacklisted the TV Channel for showing it.

    A tosser with double standards who did not deserve the public recognition that he later received.’

    So he was pissed, yawn…

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  88. Redbaiter (6,464 comments) says:

    She’s not my pin up, I merely prefer to use my own judgment on these matters rather than be told what to think by mainstream media leftists.

    You people make me nauseous with your hypocrisy. If this woman was campaigning against George Bush or Romney, you would be portraying her as a heroine.

    (Do you know even know or understand the source of information on Wikipedia? It is mostly hopeless on political issues and anyone with a brain knows this and also knows why)

    Reid- they might, I think this may be the first time anyone has actually got over the lack of standing issue.

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  89. Nostalgia-NZ (4,685 comments) says:

    But at least he smacked Jerry Collins….with a handbag.

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  90. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    Nostalgia.. So. Rather than shrug it off he became righteous and acted like a plonker. True to form. A case of white mans liquor too strong for the import. Not sure if it was Jerry. I think it was someone just as useless.

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  91. mikenmild (8,762 comments) says:

    Red, could you please recommend a more reliable encyclopedic source on politics? I’ve gone to RationalWiki for its succinctness.

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  92. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    ………….portraying her as a heroine.

    If was in my make up to feel pity Red, this poor mad bitch would have some of it, you don’t need to look at her Wiki- look at her web site.

    But she does prove what a great country the USA is …. Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses (your certifiable and I will grant them citizenship) whereas NZ is trying to shaft a large german for making a few quid

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  93. graham (2,211 comments) says:

    “… appearing on Lawrence O’Donnell’s TV show, she proceeds to make Suzanne Somers’ character on Three’s Company look like a genius. ”

    Ouch.

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  94. big bruv (12,327 comments) says:

    Lol…I thought the insane birther movement was dead and buried.

    The Orly Tait female makes our own mad water woman seem normal.

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  95. Nostalgia-NZ (4,685 comments) says:

    RF

    I’m all for self righteousness, how else could anyone explain being pissed after a test match?
    If it wasn’t Jerry there must have been someone else in the team at the time will a blond Mohawk. I suppose it happens all the time.

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  96. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Longknives,

    are you a South African import, or what ?

    I you are, i respectfully suggest you F.O. back to where you came from.

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  97. mikenmild (8,762 comments) says:

    Could this be a renaissance for the birthers?

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  98. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    Nostalgia.. Allow me to sup my single malt and be righteous. I just get pissed off with double standards. There is more to life than chasing a funny shape ball around a paddock and getting your head kicked in for your pleasure.

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  99. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Bereal- Yep because I would have to be South African.
    No New Zealander born and bred could possibly look at the self righteous, arrogant All Blacks and see them for the poor sports and hypocrites they are..
    Kowtow hit the nail on the head re Tana ‘Spear Tackle’ Umaga at 7:53. He must be a Pommie or something?

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  100. Reid (15,513 comments) says:

    you don’t need to look at her Wiki- look at her web site.

    However fact is, she’s apparently got a Court to look at it. Some of you people are behaving as if a court had accepted evidence that say Hulun was guilty of installing her own Police Commissioner like the way she replaced Dunne with Hunt, that’s a bad thing.

    I don’t quite get that. Not because I applaud a dishonest lefty being taken down, but because I applaud truth being outed. And surely no-one thinks Obama, with all his come-from-nowhere 0-60 in 0.1 secs Chicago background, think’s that Obama is kosher, just as surely no-one, today, thinks Hulun was?

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  101. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    And the Handbag incident was Chris Masoe…..

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  102. mikenmild (8,762 comments) says:

    Helen Clark had a fake birth certificate?

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  103. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Helen Clark was not born in Honolulu.

    Helen Clark hit Chris Masoe with her birth certificate,? fuck me ,I hope he cracked her back

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  104. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    reid there are Courts and there are Courts, just like there are Harvard Law Degrees and Taft Correspondence School Law degrees

    Thats Harvard Law School by the way which is where Obama got his Law degree

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  105. cha (3,529 comments) says:

    Orly Taitz.

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  106. tom hunter (4,000 comments) says:

    Imagine if Romney does win the election.
    The gloating and smugness from Fletch, tom hunter, ….

    Your projecting bc. I have too little faith in Romney and the courage of the Senate and Congressional GOP to be very excited should he win.

    I will however acknowledge that Romney winning will do something similar to what happened with the transition from Key to Clark; things won’t be deliberately pushed even further into the crazy – they’ll just drift there more slowly – $20 trillion in debt by 2016 rather than $22 trillion. Yay!

    However, I will enjoy taunting all the idiots who went so gaga over Obambi four years ago. Okay – so even most of them have subsided into a sad silence, and many of the most prominent such howlers from Kiwiblog 2008 have gone. Still – it could be fun.

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  107. Reid (15,513 comments) says:

    Helen Clark had a fake birth certificate?

    Good try at propaganda dissembly guys. Tell me, which of what Hulun dispicably and deliberately did in first discrediting Doone and then replacing him with her lackey, Hunt, with all attendant consequences therefrom throughout Hulun’s execrable reign, didn’t you see? I mean who needs to install their very own tame lackey as Police Commissioner when she very first takes power? Who needs to do that? Yet she did, didn’t she. It’s history, isn’t it. So what about the conclusion to draw from that, don’t some people understand?

    And gee, if you’ve studied the Obama Long Form forgery allegations, it has a lot in it, just like the Police Commissioner story has a lot in it. And if this guy has established through technology: i.e. black and white; that this has really happened, then crikey. And why is this so hard for some to believe?

    reid there are Courts and there are Courts

    Granted Paul, but courts don’t care about law degrees, they care about the argument. At least the last I heard about it, that’s what they do.

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  108. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Longknives,

    why bother to come to NZ if you have such a huge chip on your shoulder about the All Blacks.

    Better for all concerned if you Fxxxed Off back to your home.
    ASAP

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  109. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    “Better for all concerned if you Fxxxed Off back to your home.”

    Back to Oamaru?? Well OK. If you think it will help….

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  110. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Longknives,O’Driscoll,Pommie?

    bereal ,honestly you can’t conflate (is that the word) a rugby team and a country,get real.

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  111. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Yea Longknives you Omaruvians give us a Timaruvians a bad name.

    Not a bad night – evidently you’re a jappie and I’ m a ” cowardly left wing smearer” because I read a couple of web pages regarding a certifiable loon.

    My work is done night all

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  112. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Oamaru, well that makes sense. Small town, small mind, right Longknives ?

    Reid, by the way , fatty Broad replaced Doone, but you had everything else correct,

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  113. Reid (15,513 comments) says:

    Thanks bereal, sincere apologies to Hunt.

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  114. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    If you say so Bereal.
    Have some more of your magic whiskey- it’s making you even cooler..

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  115. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Wrong bereal, but then again we are all used to that but actually

    Robbie Robinson replaced Peter Doone and having worked under every commisssioner from Bob Walton until Howard Broad, Robinson was by far and away the most labour friendly Commisioner that NZ has ever seen, he made Howie look like a founding member of the Conservative Party

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  116. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    “Yea Longknives you Omaruvians give us a Timaruvians a bad name.”

    C’mon mate- Being from Waimate doesn’t make you a “Timaruvian”….

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  117. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Ok, Pauleastbay, many stand corrected tonite, i forgot about that bible banger.

    G’nite, good luck to your family.

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  118. big bruv (12,327 comments) says:

    bereal

    Longknives is not the only one who thinks that the NZ rugby team are a bunch of moaning and hypocritical softcocks.

    The simple reason that McCaw is targeted by opposition teams is because he breaks the laws of the game and the referees let him get way with it time after time.

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  119. RF (1,128 comments) says:

    Pauleastbay… I agree about Robbie being a Labour clone….. Got this from Dick McD. Also worked with Howie. Waste of space. TJF.

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  120. bc (1,251 comments) says:

    tom hunter @9.49pm

    Fair enough. Who do you think ‘won’ the debate? I didn’t see it (not that interested sorry!) but looking at the news Obama seemed to come out swinging but Romney semed to be able to deflect the blows. A win for Obama? A draw?

    It’s funny how foreign policy seems to the be the issue that gets the most noise. Like you, I thought America would be more interested in how to fix their shocking economic situation.

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  121. Nostalgia-NZ (4,685 comments) says:

    Well if it wasn’t JC that’s who Tana was aiming for.

    But thank goodness that BB has pointed out that it is actually Richie’s fault in the first place that he gets kicked in the head, the second perpetrator is in fact the referee and the person doing the kicking has actually nothing to do with it at all.

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  122. tom hunter (4,000 comments) says:

    bc

    I did not see the debate either, and for much the same reason. I don’t know why you would think that foreign policy is the issue that gets the most noise: all the polls I’ve seen have it pretty far down the list of public concerns, which is why this debate was expected to pull the fewest viewers (along with competing against a big NFL game and game one of the WSC).

    As to who “won” – well I can only go from the clips but Obama seemed by far the more aggressive while Romney did not hit him on Libya as expected. Both have to be deliberate decisions and that’s a tell for the race all by itself; Romney wanted to appear to be the big picture guy who’s comfortable, knowledgeble and in-charge – he wanted to appear presidential. Obama wanted to take the fight to Romney. If I knew nothing about the race or these two men I’d have thought that Romney was already president and Obama was the challenger.

    That means that Romney thinks he has the lead and/or the momentum and Obama thinks or knows that he’s behind. Their internal polling costs money and they cannot afford spin bullshit, so I’m guessing that the polls of both camps are telling them the same thing. It’s a switch from just a few weeks ago: now it’s Romney’s race to lose.

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