General Debate 31 October 2012

October 31st, 2012 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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145 Responses to “General Debate 31 October 2012”

  1. Keeping Stock (10,161 comments) says:

    Has Jetstar’s 1c flights campaign been a marketing triumph, or have they merely established the market value of their brand?

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/10/a-stunt-or-reality-of-market.html

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  2. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Anything goes: http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/30/michael-moore-moveon-org-video-features-dirty-mouthed-old-people-lambasting-republicans-romney/

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  3. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    Comeon Dave you know you want to….comeon…post on the wellywood puss in boots story. How a senile old fool is proposing welly has its very own Dim Whittington. Perhaps Amnesia Keys could be the first one when he looses the 2014 election to the gweens.

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  4. kowtow (7,844 comments) says:

    The warmist alarmists are playing Sandy for all it’s worth. Simply a combination of factors.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9641294/Hurricane-Sandy-what-is-causing-the-Frankenstorm.html

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  5. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    DPF, will you and KB endorse a candidate in the US election? Obama? Romney? Neither?

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  6. RF (1,318 comments) says:

    Good Morning bereal. Sleep well ?

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  7. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    I see Nate silver is upsetting the rabid right in the US of A who are watching Romney slowly slide down the tubes:

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/10/30/scoop-dupes/

    And Sandy has, of course, been immensely valuable to Obama in projecting an image of a guy in control. I suspect she is the final nail in Romney’s coffin.

    A point worth noting, as reported on Fox yesterday, is that over one third of Ohio voters have already voted and they have gone for Obama by a margin of 2:1. Early voters usually favour the Democrats but it’s a big call to suggest Romney can peg back that kind of lead on election day.

    A bit of a shame, really.

    Change is much more fun.

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  8. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Lucy, do not count your chickens until they hatch. Just wait until the results are in.

    This is the Messiah’ style of leadership: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/10/the-perils-of-pre-tapes-president-obama-talks-ipod-on-radio-as-hurricane-hits/

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  9. Lance (2,529 comments) says:

    @Luc
    Don’t be too sure. Florida’s there for the rigging :-)

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  10. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    kowtow (3,152) Says:
    October 31st, 2012 at 8:29 am
    The warmist alarmists are playing Sandy for all it’s worth. Simply a combination of factors.

    Only partially right, Kowtow. Yes, it’s a combination of factors but hurricanes are now, on average, more intense than previously because of the extra heat in the ocean taking the atlantic nicely up to turbocharging level for hurricanes and 4% extra water vapour in the atmosphere means more precipitation, including snow.

    For a more nuanced view than Daily T

    http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/29/frankenstorm_meteorologist_warns_hurricane_sandy_an

    While you are there, look around and get informed.

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  11. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Yes, thankyou, like a log.
    Like a blameless innocent.

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  12. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Yeah, my feeling is that Romney will give Obama a run for his money.

    http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/10/30/polls-show-obama-romney-race-too-close-call-week-before-election/Ujf7JT8D4xiJzxp40UCw0N/story.html

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  13. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    And my predictions on the future of our own right wing left wing political party:

    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2012/10/right-wing-prime-minister-of-left-wing.html

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  14. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Manolo, you misread me. I would love to see Obama lose. He is a neoliberal sycophant who has scented spilled blood and enjoyed the experience. If he wins, don’t be surprised if he orders the killings of hundreds of thousands of Iranians and others.

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  15. Lance (2,529 comments) says:

    @Luc
    WTF?

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  16. BlairM (2,303 comments) says:

    Luc, you and Mr Silver are sadly mistaken in your views. Romney has moved ahead in Ohio, which gives him the White House. Minnesota is now in play. Oregon is now a 6 point race. The question now is not whether Romney wins, but by how much.

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  17. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Speaking of fox News, I watched Shepherd Smith (with a delivery style aimed at the primary school level) tip toe all around the two dreaded words: Climate Change!

    “The weather patterns have changed…let’s not get into politics here but…the weather patterns have changed…the weather patterns have changed…”

    Hey, Shep, guess what. Your best scientists predicted this decades ago:

    http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/30/climate_change_hurricanes_and_the_fate

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  18. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Blair, the information on Ohio came from Bob Beckel? on Fox.

    I watch quite a bit of Fox (when my wife isn’t around: she hates it). I like to be informed about what the enemy is thinking.

    If Romney has edged ahead in polls of likely voters, you need to understand that those who have already voted are excluded from that poll.

    The only way to find out which poll analyst was most accurate is to wait for the final poll,

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  19. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    So the storms are 0.2% more intense (being very generous here) woopy dooo. The major problems are that weather records dont extend far enough back in geological time, there are ever increasing numbers of people in the way, and ever increaasing numbers of shoefone cameras to capture the mayhem.

    Oh and um someone tell the yanks to stop frecken building cities below water level in hurricane zones!

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  20. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    I predicted previously that Florida would swing to Romney and this will give him the race:
    http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2012/10/obama_and_romney_tied_in_all_l.php

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  21. Griff (6,965 comments) says:

    The interesting thing with sandy is she changed from a cyclone to a storm then back again due to the gulf stream
    The fact that the gulf stream was 2 degrees warmer due to agw made the storm significantly stronger she went from 60mph winds to 85 mph winds when she regenerated due to the warm water
    When you add this with the effect of sea level rise due to global warming you get the damaging effect of RECORD storm surge that the usa just learnt about

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  22. tom hunter (4,527 comments) says:

    I saw that Scott Chris was first out of the warmy block on Hurrcane Sandra yesterday, but could not be arsed rising to the bait then. But what the hell …..

    Climate models suggest that human activities, specifically the emission of atmospheric greenhouse gases, may lead to increases in the frequency of severe storms in certain regions of the Northern Hemisphere. However, the existence of natural variability in storminess confounds reliable detection of anthropogenic effects.

    During the past ~600 years, New England storminess appears to have been increasing naturally. This rhythm in storm frequency may explain some of the recently observed increases in extreme precipitation events. If the pattern of millennial-scale variability that we documented through the Holocene persists into the future, New England storminess would continue to increase for the next ~900 years. Because climate synopses compiled from instrumental records cannot distinguish underlying natural increases in storminess from anthropogenic effects, detected increases in contemporary storminess may not be a reliable indicator of human-induced climate change.

    That’s from a paper published in Nature in 2002.

    What’s that I keep being told by warmists – that it’s not climate, it’s just weather?

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  23. Reid (16,061 comments) says:

    Interesting thoughts Monique @ 9:25. On the future leadership, don’t you see Joyce having a role? He’s Key’s hand-picked player and if he wants the role as leader, I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets it, with Collins as possible deputy. All in all it’s pretty insipid line-up in the senior ranks isn’t it.

    I had high hopes for this fifth National govt with a businessman at the wheel but Key, by pursuing populism over principle, has let us down. He could have cancelled the tax cuts on the grounds the crisis was way bigger than anticipated. That would have been easy. Personally I never would have even mentioned them, they weren’t necessary to win. Everyone who voted National for that reason were never going to vote Liarbore anyway, so it wasn’t even much of a vote-winner. And yet by not doing that obvious thing he has given the opposition something which they have relentlessly campaigned on.

    I’m disappointed in English as well. After a lifetime in politics, apparently all he understands about economic policy is the standard market-driven stuff which is all fine when some markets are up and some are down but not fine when all markets are down. And he clearly never thought about what to do in a case like that, over all the years he’s been in the game. Consequently NZ struggles along with orthodoxy, when something radical, like the Celtic Tiger model, is required.

    Key to me looked shocked when Power announced his resignation. I’m slowly beginning to like Power. I hope he comes back in due course. But who knows if Joyce want’s it? That’s another question. But in his absence, yes. Agree Ryall is also possible.

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  24. Elaycee (4,318 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock:

    Has Jetstar’s 1c flights campaign been a marketing triumph, or have they merely established the market value of their brand?

    If it was stock, I’d recommend “sell” as I consider 1c as being overvalued.

    For my 2c, Jetstar are the ‘Penny Not-So’ of airlines. All hiss, wind and bluster but totally lacking in substance. Had they been around a few decades ago, they would’ve been branded “Claytons’… the airline you choose when you don’t have to get there….

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  25. Reid (16,061 comments) says:

    Edit: Agree Ryall and Collins is possible combo…

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  26. RightNow (6,776 comments) says:

    No doubt Sandy has been a terrible storm for the eastern US, but not as bad as 1938 by any measure.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_England_Hurricane_of_1938

    Damage is estimated at $6 billion (2004 US$),[9] making it among the most costly hurricanes to strike the U.S. mainland. It is estimated that if an identical hurricane struck today it would cause $39.2 billion (2005 USD) in damage.[10]
    Approximately 600 people died in the storm in New England, most in Rhode Island, and up to 100 people elsewhere in the path of the storm.[11] An additional 708 people were reported injured.[12]
    In total, 4,500 cottages, farms, and other homes were reported destroyed. An additional 25,000 homes were damaged. Other damages included 26,000 automobiles destroyed, and 20,000 electrical poles toppled. The hurricane also devastated the forests of the Northeast, knocking down an estimated 2 billion trees in New York and New England.[13] Freshwater flooding was minimal, however, as the quick passage of the storm decreased local rainfall totals, with only a few small areas receiving over 10 inches (250 mm).

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  27. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Tom’s inviting a war of papers! But one paper does not a hypothesis make, Tom.

    Can you provide a link so I can read the context?

    And rather than swamp you with a deluge (pun absolutely intended!) of links linking anthropogenic emissions to changes in the atmosphere take some time to read the work, including published papers, on this matter by one of our climate change pioneers.

    An important point is that anthropogenic climate change does not imply non-existence of natural variation. There will always be natural variation. The point is that human-caused variation will eventually override natural variability.

    Surely that’s not too difficult for intelligent people to grasp?

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  28. grumpyoldhori (2,412 comments) says:

    Reid, I’ve always had time for Power, but why should he join the Nats when their only option is same old same old.
    No we need another Douglas etc to make us a Asian Tiger and Power would make a fine Labour PM.

    Did you really expect the Nats to make any large changes, will not happen, at the moment Key is like another Muldoon, give tax cuts away and borrow to try and balance the books.

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  29. Lance (2,529 comments) says:

    @RightNow
    Sandy is more powerful than the 1938 storm.
    I guess they are more prepared this time especially as reports from 1938 state the hurricane suddenly changed course and caught many unprepared.

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  30. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    RN

    By technical measures, Sandy was the biggest in recorded history for that area.

    You don’t think that Americans have built in more resilience to extreme events, these days?

    By the way, what’s happened to all those morons a couple of weeks ago busy telling me that the NYC subway is too high to flood?

    And that a few inches of sea level rise wouldn’t make the flooding worse? A few inches turns into a metre or more in storms like this.

    It’s funny, Mike Bloomberg is a neoliberal, ruthlessly successful capitalist and he has no problem grasping the science. NYC is lucky to have him and not some wild-eyed denier like Inhofe!

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  31. jaba (2,091 comments) says:

    I see Mayor Tim wants the Govt to assist Rio in keeping the smelter up and running. The Gweens and labour, just a few years ago, were getting stuck into the company for not paying their was by way of power prices and no doubt ETS charges. What happened?

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  32. dime (9,606 comments) says:

    Disney buy Star Wars. Holy shit.

    Four billion for lucasfilm.
    episode 7 slated for 2015. Happy happy dime

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  33. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Luc Hansen (4,178) Says:
    October 31st, 2012 at 10:17 am

    oops, forgot to add the link for our friend, Tom.

    http://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/

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  34. Keeping Stock (10,161 comments) says:

    @ Elaycee; outstanding! I wish I’d thought of that “Clayton’s” lime :D

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  35. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Jaba

    In two words, commodity prices. Aluminium is worth four fifths of f-all these days.

    It goes to show how important it is to get the timing for fiscal policies right. The power prices should have been linked to the commodity price and then automatic stabilizers would act and there would be no need for the government to intervene.

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  36. RightNow (6,776 comments) says:

    “I guess they are more prepared this time”
    “You don’t think that Americans have built in more resilience to extreme events, these days?”

    Absolutely agree. I think it’s totally proper to direct resources into preparation for events like this.

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  37. tom hunter (4,527 comments) says:

    Mike Bloomberg is a neoliberal, ruthlessly successful capitalist and he has no problem grasping the science. NYC is lucky to have him …

    Poor Luc, far behind the ball, as usual.

    Here’s what Brendan Loy – Warmist and self-proclaimed Weather Nerd, whose site was just about the best to follow during this hurricane, including alerting people to its possibilities days earlier than the MSM – had to say about Bloomberg on his twitter:

    Brendan Loy @brendanloy

    “With this storm, we’ll likely see a slow pileup of water rather than a sudden surge” -Michael Bloomberg, idiot, 10/27/12. #ImpeachBloomberg 30 Oct 12

    and again …

    Brendan Loy @brendanloy

    Bloomberg’s “less dangerous” non-”sudden surge” was every bit as ignorant junk science as Akin’s comment, & far more consequential. #resign

    And just in case anybody was under the impression that these were simply things said in the heat of the moment, Loy expands on this a bit in his blog:

    Yes, I’m angry at “Hizzoner.” Not for failing to prevent an act of nature, but for failing to do his damn job properly — and, worse, grossly misleading the public — during the run-up to this extremely well-forecasted storm. Yes, I think a public accounting of his gross errors is required, at a bare minimum.

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  38. Reid (16,061 comments) says:

    Grumpy the best theory I have is Power and Key didn’t get along and it built up over time till Power snapped. But that doesn’t explain why he gives up the obvious goal, that of PM, which was in his sights. And that goal is more than a temporary glitch in the long term path. And who gives up a chance to be PM?

    He could possibly be looking to broaden his commercial skills and contacts then return. But it seems an odd thing to do, unless he’s supremely confident he’ll be able to slip right back in, which seems a bit arrogant.

    So I don’t really know.

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  39. FrankPJ (3 comments) says:

    As the UK reacts to the Jimmy Savile revelations and revokes awards given to paedophiles, St John New Zealand announce they are to give awards two known paedophiles, to be presented by the Governor General http://bit.ly/ourNZexperience

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  40. Reid (16,061 comments) says:

    The power prices should have been linked to the commodity price and then automatic stabilizers would act and there would be no need for the government to intervene.

    Luc why on earth would you want to do that? The issue with the smelter as you probably know is that Chinese aluminium production has tanked the world price for the foreseeable future. at the same time Rio Tinto is currently divesting itself of what it regards as non-core and Bluff is one of those. Our only saving grace is our purity demanded for aircraft however the world growth for aluminium is in the cars and that requires less purity.

    So that’s the backdrop for your proposal. But why would an electricity supplier care to entertain an indexed price that had no relationship whatsoever to any of the dynamics of the electricity industry? Why would they want to do that. I mean, hopefully they had their own forecasters who picked up on this trend anyway and were able to instruct the leaders that in two years time based on current trends our biggest customer is going to be in serious trouble, and hopefully they said that two years ago, because you could have picked that up from reading the Economist. I’m only saying Luc your policy relates to “stablisation” which equates to prediction and you could get the same by not indexing the price.

    There’s no doubt this uncertainty is unhelpful, but hey, that’s life in 2012.

    Frank, it’s a shocking story. Are you the father? If so my deepest commiseration.

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  41. wreck1080 (3,778 comments) says:

    Just waiting for hurricane Sandy to impact my insurance…. so many disasters.

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  42. Scott Chris (5,940 comments) says:

    but could not be arsed rising to the bait then. But what the hell …..

    But you couldn’t be arsed to provide any links or even an author’s name. Sloppy work tom.

    Bottom line is though; if you put more energy into a system, the system obviously becomes more energetic. Certainly the expression of that energy will vary in intensity and location as new patterns emerge but to anyone not in a state of irrational denial, Sandy is a likely manifestation of that increase in energy content.

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  43. Lance (2,529 comments) says:

    So will Sandy, a once in a generation storm, become an annual event?

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  44. Griff (6,965 comments) says:

    Dont bother SC Tom well knows the history of this cyclone. He knows that the energy increased as sandy crossed the gulf stream .
    It is a just matter of time before we in New Zealand get the same thing a bigger storm because of the warmer water to the north
    The flooding of the NY subways will push the cost of sandy well over the 10 to 20 billion being talked about. How will New York function with out its subways for the next month or so?

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  45. Pete George (23,126 comments) says:

    What’s gone wrong with Blues rugby?

    The squad includes four current All Blacks in Piri Weepu, Ali Williams, Keven Mealamu and Charlie Faumuina.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/sport/rugby/232688/rugby-kirwan-names-young-exciting-squad

    Mealamu is still up there, Faumuina could rise, but only Weepu (an import from Wellington) in the backs, doesn’t say much for Auckland player development and retention.

    Of course an inexperienced squad may rise to the occasion.

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  46. Scott Chris (5,940 comments) says:

    Griff, I think even Tom may be having some doubts, after all Sandy is merely a sign, as was the record Arctic ice minimum and the hottest US summer in recorded history. 3 big signs, all in the space of a couple of months…

    ~Nah, just another coincidence ay.~

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  47. Wayne91 (143 comments) says:

    “What’s gone wrong with Blues rugby?”

    Good question Pete,

    I think the rivalries between the 3 main unions were never settled properly and there has been a lot of undermining based on those provincial rivalries. North Harbour felt they were being shafted, Auckland didn’t see why the Blues should pay for players like Boric and Woodcock because they didn’t come from Auckland. Eventually, despite the huge player resources this has overtime led to the demise of the Blues.

    I wish JK and his team all the luck and will be right behind them – However the root cause has not been fixed, that is the Blues board needs to be totally independant

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  48. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    @Reid

    I’d discount Joyce because he’s one of the Usual Suspects; a good prop for Key along with Brownlee but I just can’t see him coming out in a rash of Leadership. Also he’s a list MP and a Leader should hold an electorate. A good career politician but not Leader or 2IC.
    Collins has new ideas and initiative and balls to match the guys obviously; she’s not sitting in a corner making meek like other National women.I’d rate her backed by Ryall who has the institutional knowledge without the aura of buffoonery that the Three Musketeers (Key Brownlee and Joyce) radiate. If Brownlee was in the Justice portfolio, I’d say we’d see some real reforms.

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  49. kowtow (7,844 comments) says:

    I thought Lucy hated Jews. Why is he quoting Nate Silver? Anyway here’s another take.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100186850/romney-obama-nate-silver-new-york-times/

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  50. RF (1,318 comments) says:

    Not sure how the cyclone will impact on the US elections next week. Obama was starting to look dead in the water however he has now had a chance to shine. Reminds me of Bob Parker & Jim Anderton with Parker on TV every night in his fluro jacket saving Christchurch. Not sure about that but the earthquake saved him.

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  51. Reid (16,061 comments) says:

    Joyce has a fairly strong and positive public presence relative to other ministers Monique. He’s got the x factor. Collins doesn’t. I’m not sure it’s on the cards, whether he would want to, but if so I think he and Collins would be a good combo with Ryall playing a kind of David Caygill role as no. 3. That would make a very strong team.

    I’m not sure the disaffection from the public is denting brand Key at the moment but if it was, I think Joyce is capable of distinguishing himself from that brand in the public mind if it was affecting his image.

    It’s very uncertain precisely where we’ll end up in two years, isn’t it.

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  52. Reid (16,061 comments) says:

    Savile fallout spreads further as a former detective claims a case investigating rent-boys and a Cabinet Minister was stopped on explicit instruction:
    http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/279380/TORY-PAEDO-COVER-UP/

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  53. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    ‘‘I leave still with a love of television, and hoping that the funders and broadcasters come to realise [sic] that all the platforms in the world neither monetarise nor make great Kiwi content which we can share on the screen in our lounge!..”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv/7888477/Leading-reality-TV-producer-resigns

    Setting aside, for a moment, the dubious qualities of reality television, why has the reporter inserted [sic] after ‘realise’? Are they not capable of understanding that a word may have more than one spelling? Do they rely solely on their Microsoft Word application to identify whether or not someone has made an error?

    Or have I missed a prior grammatical error in the statement?

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  54. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    In addition to the blow that killed him, little J J Lawrence had over 30 previous
    injuries to his body, sustained over a period of time, some as recent as days before his murder
    the pathologist has testified today.

    Surely his mother can/should be charged with something.

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  55. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    “Surely his mother can/should be charged with something.”

    Yeah..piss poor taste in men…and I use ” men ” loosly..more like pond scum

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  56. chiz (1,124 comments) says:

    Luc Hansen:Can you provide a link so I can read the context?

    The paper that Tom was referring to is here.

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  57. Reid (16,061 comments) says:

    …why has the reporter inserted [sic] after ‘realise’? Are they not capable of understanding that a word may have more than one spelling? Do they rely solely on their Microsoft Word application to identify whether or not someone has made an error?

    The clue lies in what they are covering bhudson and what they said about it: e.g. “…great Kiwi content which we can share on the screen in our lounge!”

    I mean s/he even added an exclamation mark, as if it was a good thing that even more “Kiwi content” would be foisted upon the minds and souls of our great nation. I mean look what’s it’s done so far, and s/he wants more of it?

    So I’m not surprised they added an inappropriate [sic], I am surprised they knew enough about it to have a vague understanding of when possibly it might be used, even though they got it wrong.

    I mean imagine if your real day job was to monitor the compelling world of NZ TV and report on the latest exciting developments every Monday, Wednesday and Friday. I thought they’d farmed that out to the local IHC workshops years ago but no, apparently not.

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  58. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    I agree Bereal…It seems women like her are often terrified of these thugs but just think how terrified the little boy must have been.

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  59. wat dabney (3,714 comments) says:

    The power of global warming is such that a full 16 years after it stopped it suddenly causes a hurricane to be bigger than the others.

    Who knew about this time travel aspect of global warming?

    Why didn’t Al Gore warn us about it?

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  60. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    FrankPJ
    I couldn’t get thru to your link..but I agree , the elephant in the room in NZ , is paedophilia….How long before Calendar Girl turns up?
    One of our current high profile politicians is purported to be in the club..I cannot give a name here as David would delete it..Ask around and find out for yourself.

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  61. Griff (6,965 comments) says:

    You still posting that rubbish wat wat?
    1998 hottest year in the twentieth century
    Beaten twice in the twenty first 2005 2010
    Once a century is now once every five years :lol:

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  62. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    @ Joana – I don’t care how terrified JJ Lawrence’s mother was of the thug – she couldn’t protect her son which makes the silly little bitch just as culpable. More culpable then if she’d split JJ’s liver herself because of the breach of trust between her and her son.
    Mind you it’s easy for me to say – I’m a better mother than most because I follow the principle: “no cunt gets between me and my kids.

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  63. wat dabney (3,714 comments) says:

    Griff,

    You are trying very hard to spin 16 years of flatlining temperatures, but I’m afraid all it reveals is either your ignorance or your (already wel-established) dishonestly.

    Specifically, you are trying to a push a couple of statistically insignificant values which are totally lost within the error bars.

    Do you know what “statistically insignificant” means, Griff?

    The claim that there has been no statistically significant warming for 16 years is entirely correct.

    Here is the follow-up piece from the Mail.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2220722/Global-warming-The-Mail-Sunday-answers-world-warming-not.html

    So again we’re left wondering why we were not warned of this whole time-travel aspect of global warming, such that it embiggens a hurricane 16 years after it stopped.

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  64. graham (2,245 comments) says:

    I have had a revelation today. Normally I stay away from The Standard, but decided to head over there for a quick browse – first time in months.

    I have realised that all of us who would mock lprent have it completely wrong. You see, he is no mere mortal. He is “a science grad, ex-army, ex-factory manager, a Otago MBA, a hell of a hardcore programmer, occasional CTO or lead programmer or team leader when I can’t get out of it, and he’s been around the net and it’s predecessors since about 1980.”

    http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-30102012/comment-page-1/#comment-540455

    And yet he’s so modest about it. :)

    So stop having a go at him, people. It’s not easy being as fantastic as he is, you know.

    Oh, and in case you were wondering, he’s “not some inexperienced poseur”, but apparently “they are somewhat easy to recognize”. In his own words.

    What can you say?

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  65. Nostalgia-NZ (4,985 comments) says:

    ‘Surely his mother can/should be charged with something.’

    She can’t be now I’d think bereal.
    But effectively she was part of the abuse. The pathologist has said there were 32 recent injuries to the boy.

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  66. wat dabney (3,714 comments) says:

    Look at the way the historical temperature record has been completely re-written to create a totally false warming trend in the US, and look at all those headlines about extreme weather events from the 30′s and 40′s

    Weather was much more extreme during the 1930s and 1940s, and some government scientists at GISS and NOAA are working very hard to make those decades disappear.

    http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/10/21/defiling-the-past/

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  67. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    i’m pretty sure that were i Czar of New Zealand i could cure our child murder problem
    or at least reduce it by 95% overnight.

    http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/dallas/Mom-who-glued-childs-hands-to-wall-sentenced-to-173900761.html

    Advertise accross the nation, TV, radio, posters in every Winz office, letters to every Dpb receipient etc.
    that
    the next time a child is murdered by their mothers boyfriend, the mother gets life in prison whether she was
    directly involved in the murder or not.

    Then do it. Then advertise the fact that it had been done. Then do it again the next time.

    Make these slag mothers accountable.

    i bet there will not be too many mothers in Texas glueing their kids hands to the wall in future.

    Who is going to hold J J Lawrences slag mum to account for not protecting him ?

    No one.

    Doubtless when this trial blows over this slag will drop
    another sprog and the process will repeat.

    We have to break the cycle.

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  68. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

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  69. Johnboy (15,382 comments) says:

    Gluing the boyfriends dick to a concrete block and tossing him into the harbour would work better Beryl! :)

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  70. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Make these slag mothers accountable.

    That is not going to happen bereal. Women are identified (by the left) with the sought after status of “victim”. This excuses them from accountability.

    Something many on KB miss, is that much of the social engineering we suffer is from women and feminised thinking. Women are born socialist and their number one target is men! We are an ultra feminised society. I don’t blame the women, I blame the men who allowed it to happen.

    We need to stop rewarding women for spreading their legs and spitting out another meal ticket. They need to be held responsible for their actions, as men are. They need to receive a crystal clear message that having more babies, they can not afford, is not doing society a favour. They are not “little miracles” they are parasites on society.

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  71. Johnboy (15,382 comments) says:

    And we also need to stop letting blokes that take advantage of the spread legs not paying for their few minutes of pleasure Kea. Pay up or castration should solve it. :)

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  72. wat dabney (3,714 comments) says:

    The totally corrupt BBC is also fighting to withhold the names of the 28 “experts” it says it consulted which it used to justify its official policy of bias when it comes to global warming:

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10/29/boaden_tribunal_information_refusal/

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  73. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I sort of agree Johnboy.

    BUT

    It is noted how you have just transferred the responsibility to men. Just as I would expect a Kiwi man would. Your masters will be most pleased.

    I am some what less pleased however. Our society is deeply anti male. You don’t see it because it is so normalised, but it is there all around you hidden in clear view.

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  74. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    Castration should slow things down a bit. Mind you, does this remind you of the cost to the taxpayer that a few minutes of pleasure for some arsehole brings?

    Ref: http://imgur.com/gallery/Ybd77

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  75. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Wat, AGW is old news and only a few hard core crazies still think the world will certainly end if we don’t become organic farming communist vegans with a one world government.

    Evening Griff :)

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  76. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    Just listening to the latest breathless ‘SBW’ update from the adoring (and slightly gullible) New Zealand media.
    Francois Botha is an overweight, over the hill, 44 year-old journeyman boxer who was absolutely flattened by the likes of Tyson,Holyfield,Lewis and Klitschko. (This was years ago when he was at his peak- which even then wasn’t very good)
    Strange then that the supposed “new Ali” Sonny Bill Williams is doing everything in his power to duck this fight….
    “Greatest cross-code athlete ever” Hah!!!

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  77. RightNow (6,776 comments) says:

    wat dabney, I commend you for your willingness to engage anymore with griff and co re: AGW. I’m happy to say I don’t really care about it any more (and even more happy to say I don’t mix in circles of people that do).

    Personally I think we’ve come to a point where the majority of the public have realised
    a) it hasn’t warmed anywhere near as much as the models predicted
    b) sea levels remain boring in most places
    c) huge amounts of taxpayer money have been blown and there’s nothing but noisy windmills to show for it
    d) some of the attempted remedies have had dire unintended consequences
    e) environmental campaigners – including high profile public figures – have been the biggest hypocrites demanding other people pay more to use less, while the campaigners jet set around the world and maintain huge carbon (dioxide) “footprints”, paid for by us.
    f) mitigating for the effects of a changing environment is actually nothing new to humans, we’re pretty clever at stuff like that
    g) overall a small rise in temperature is actually good, as is a small rise in CO2.

    And that’s not saying anything about the scientists.

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  78. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Just listening to the latest breathless ‘SBW’ update from the adoring (and slightly gullible) New Zealand media.

    Longknives, SBW enjoys playing with oval shaped balls, covered in a leathery skin, with the other boys. This makes him something of a god in some quarters. He could play anything and the media would be all over it.

    Mean while, many other athletes get nothing in the way of coverage.

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  79. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    But Kea

    The man was an All Black for christs’ sake.

    You must hate your country talking like that.

    How can you hate your country that much?, imagine offering a comment on a blog, you are a country hater and I suppose you call yourself a New Zealander

    …Hold on I appear to be channeling someone else

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  80. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    Kea- The guy is a good rugby player…But it riles the shit out of me to hear people who know nothing about the sweet science talking about him as the future ‘World Champion’. Just because bigmouth Mundine says he is the “greatest since Ali” doesn’t quite make it so. I know amateurs who would tear his head off (in fact- at 37 years young I’d just about have a crack myself!)
    The Rock radio station asked Shane Cameron if the two were likely to fight in the future- Shane just quietly laughed…and anyone who has ever boxed or who knows anything about boxing quietly laughed with him….

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  81. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    As for ‘Greatest Cross Code Athlete’ of all time you would be hard pressed to beat Jim Thorpe.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Thorpe

    Professional Baseball, Basketball and American Football. Oh and Olympic Champion….

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  82. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Yes I see your point Pauleastbay and I am wrong. I now love homo-erotica rugby and my country. (especially the bits where sweaty men grope each other :)

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  83. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Fossil fuels come from the decayed and compressed remains from the age of the dinosaurs. During that time there was abundant life, both animal and plant. Giants roamed the earth, the likes of which have never been seen again. Nature went crazy with life. This is the “scientific consensus”.

    Co2 levels were much higher then, in the time of plenty. When we burn fossil fuel we are not “making” Co2, we are simply liberating it back into the atmosphere from where it came.

    So KB readers, burn burn burn that gas and provided a carbon rich planet for your kids. Let them live in time of plenty and enjoy the full bounty of nature.

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  84. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Longknives

    No argument, the closest would be Bo Jackson – All Star in MLB and NFL and won the Heisman – in an age when the season are so compressed

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  85. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    Damn you Kea I was trying desperately to swing the conversation away from Global freaking Warming.
    Nasska’s jokes are at least an hour away- Only a drunken and fired up Bereal can save us…

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  86. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Thorpe was a legend all right. He played professional sports until he was 41 & was an alcoholic! I bet he smoked too :)

    Now there is a real sports person. Not like those poofy show pony AB’s

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  87. thedavincimode (6,573 comments) says:

    nasska

    Don’t direct Johnboy’s attention to magpies. I have an uncomfortable feeling that his pet magpie [splutter cough squirm font] didn’t make it home last night.

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  88. RF (1,318 comments) says:

    Pauleastbay..6.52pm. I knew that you were one of twins. Suggest that you sit in the corner and play with your balls.

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  89. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    James Francis “Jim” Thorpe did in fact smoke as well as drink heavily. Lets see an AB smoke a pack and knock off a bottle or two of whisky the night before. ! Poofters.

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  90. Griff (6,965 comments) says:

    Cant imagine that talking about thugby is going to be any more amusing then winding the denial nutters is
    beryl will come out and call us all haters till he passes out from the piss
    there is always god or we could beg for philu to return

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  91. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    Serge Blanco smoked 40 a day and had a problem with booze during his playing days- From memory it didn’t stop him tearing the All Blacks to shreds on several occasions….old school!

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  92. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    Griff

    Go sit in the corner & staple your tongue to the wall!

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  93. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    thedavincimode

    Should we send flowers? :)

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  94. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    And the legendary George Best never shied away from the drink…(or the skirt)

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  95. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Oh well, I’ll step up to the plate then Griff with an oldy but a goody

    I’ve just seen a photograph of my daughter with her next door neighbour posted on facebook going out for Halloween.
    The neighbour apart from being a lovely lady, a talented artist is gay.

    Do I fret about whether she will catch gayness or should I drive to Auckland to protect her.

    A modern problem, I know but what should I do?

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  96. Griff (6,965 comments) says:

    Dont worry PEB gay carpet licking doesn’t count it does not involve bums so she should be OK according to the fundies

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  97. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    My advice Paul is she will be safe, as long as she stays away from drunken rugby players and co 2. ;)

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  98. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Mike “Lungbuster” Parkinson – known to stub his last fag out on the tunnel wall running out onto the field.

    Mind you he is dead but …………..

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  99. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    Or my favourite current sportsman-

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  100. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    My suggestion to solve the child murder problem in NZ comes from the thousands of years old
    teachings of Sun Tsu.

    Just watch the first few minutes to see the answer, if you do stay with it it’s very instructive regarding
    Vietnam, D Day, the American civil war, etc.
    We don’t need to reinvent the wheel. We need commitment to solve the problem.

    Then again, you may take on board the opinions of, say, Longknives, Kea, Griff or Pauleastbay.

    And i guess, that typical of their ilk they will ignore the issue and attack the messenger.

    These lightweights can have fun conducting their circle fuck but when you look
    at what they say, there is no one home.

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  101. Johnboy (15,382 comments) says:

    I used to smoke forty a day and could carry a stag up a 500 metre hill at a fair clip when I was thirty.

    Since I gave up and doubled my age I have trouble carrying a six pack up the stairs, but it still feels as good when you unload at the top! :)

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  102. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    Ummm okay.. that was a little ‘left-field’….

    So Sun Tsu supports the Adidas All Blacks??

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  103. Yvette (2,735 comments) says:

    How is Fill, Johnboy?

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  104. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    These lightweights can have fun conducting their circle fuck

    Who’s turn is it to bring the condoms boys or should we go bareback like last week? Just think, we can all get married soon :)

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  105. Johnboy (15,382 comments) says:

    Going by his demands on the food supply rearing a fine clutch of fledglings I suspect Yvette.

    At least he’s not on welfare to support his breeding! :)

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  106. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    “Be extremely subtle, even to the point of formlessness. Be extremely mysterious, even to the point of soundlessness. Thereby you can be the director of the opponent’s fate.” Sun Tzu

    Direct from the book, I presume this is what you are trying to achieve Bereal, the subtleness and formlessmess bit anyway

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  107. Johnboy (15,382 comments) says:

    Reading from the book is often a sign of those suffering from religious mania PEB. :)

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  108. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    Apparently sperm lives up to 18 hours after ejaculation.
    So if you’ve just had a wank and you’re going out, don’t forget to leave the telly on for them.

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  109. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    See the response from Longknives, Kea and Paulestbay so far.

    Forget Sun Tsu,

    Remember Dads Army.

    “They don’t like it up them, do they Captain Mannering.”

    C’mon Griff, missing in action so far.

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  110. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Its actually got a lot in common with the bible JB- no one knows who actually wrote it and who most of the stuff in it can be attributed to – but at least its not used as the basis for a religion -rather as a guide for living ,like I think the bible should be – not to be taken literally

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  111. Johnboy (15,382 comments) says:

    And never throw the tissues into the local pond nasska.

    You may create more KB commenters! :)

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  112. Johnboy (15,382 comments) says:

    Benny Hill has just started. See you all later! :)

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  113. Griff (6,965 comments) says:

    Are you implying that pond scum and KB commentators have something in common JB?

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  114. Nostalgia-NZ (4,985 comments) says:

    Why did police decide not to charge JJ’s mother PEB, and what would have been the broad result if they had. Would any message have got out there to a mother not ‘noticing’ injuries to her child or leaving a child with a stranger?
    This case looks like ‘selective’ construction as to whose singular responsibility it was, rather than how many were responsible for JJ’s death and the circumstances that led to it.

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  115. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    N-NZ

    I haven’t even followed it, just another shit story in sad lives. There is always the old thing- one solid conviction is better than not getting any, I just don’t know

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  116. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    “Remember Dads Army- They don’t like it up them, do they Captain Mannering.”

    Wouldn’t an old ‘Public-School’ boy like Captain George Mainwaring support the Red Rose of England??

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  117. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Nostalgia-NZ

    Now you are getting closer to the truth of solving this disgusting New Zealand problem.

    See my reference to Sun Zhu. 7.43

    The answer has been in front of us for thousands of years.

    My interpretation of solving this is to hold the mother responsible.

    Make the slag responsible, make her pay big time
    Frighten the slag so she acts almost like any other
    mother would.

    No use asking PEB

    He has no idea.

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  118. nasska (10,821 comments) says:

    Q. How do you know when the contents of a fridge belong to an Welshman?

    A. There’s love bites on the leg of lamb.

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  119. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    Now England 2003- There was a forward pack! Hard bastards like Jason Leonard, Steve Thompson, Lawrence Dallaglio and Martin Johnson..’Old School’ hard bastards like the All Blacks used to be.
    Now we have Ali ‘I’m a comedian everyone loves me’ Williams- who seems to have some kind of bizarre hold over the selection panel (despite only actually playing once or twice a year)
    RIP New Zealand rugby…

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  120. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    My interpretation of solving this is to hold the mother responsible.

    Make the slag responsible, make her pay big time
    Frighten the slag so she acts almost like any other
    mother would.

    Agreed. It is very rare the mother will not know of the abuse.

    I know a number of women who were molested/raped by friends or partners of their mother. In all cases the mother knew what was going on, but chose to ignore it to keep her man. This leaves the woman feeling very betrayed. All too often we see the woman, who allows this, made out as a “victim”.

    Then there are the many woman who are the actually the ones conducting the abuse…

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  121. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    “No use asking PEB
    He has no idea”

    I’m pretty sure that PEB being a copper for a year or two would qualify him quite highly to comment on Law and Order issues. Those guys are at the ‘coalface’ and regularly see things that would give Joe Average nightmares for life….

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  122. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Kea
    You began to make some sense. But then.
    Why fuck it up with your last two stupid paragraphs ?

    By the way, you must be unique in knowing, “a number of women who were molested/raped by friends
    or partners of their mother.”

    Most people reading your post would be able to discerne that you are full of shit.

    Consult with your father before making a bigger fool of yoursef in future.

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  123. Nostalgia-NZ (4,985 comments) says:

    Actually bereal PEB does have a real idea, as you do and I might.
    There would have been a message if she had been charged, an unfortunate one to the sensibilities of most observers. But a message nevertheless.
    I got interested in thinking about the area where this happened. In the vicinity of of Keepa Road I seem to recall, where further along is the memorial to Savage and below the graveyard and all around the memory of the Bastion Point protests.
    Mostly it was the Hawkes that spoke there for the families and the tribe, it would be good to have heard them speak about the death of JJ.

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  124. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Longknives
    if you are an idiot, how does being a copper for a few years change that ?

    Any way i’ve had enough for tonight.

    Good luck to your families.

    G’nite.

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  125. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    By the way, you must be unique in knowing, “a number of women who were molested/raped by friends
    or partners of their mother.”

    Most people reading your post would be able to discerne that you are full of shit.

    One of them was my ex wife of 15 years. Abused from the age of 7 until about 14. Her mum knew about it.

    I met another the other day. She was raped by a friend of her mother at 16. She reckons the guy asked her mum. Her mum was an alcoholic.

    I don’t care what “most people” think. It does not change facts.

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  126. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Oh look, bereal is pissed again and ready to sleep it off.

    I was looking forward to more of his drunken ranting :)

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  127. mikenmild (11,158 comments) says:

    ‘Hold the woman responsible’. Wow, just wow.

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  128. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Mikenmild,

    So you reckon that women who allow there kids to be abused, should be let off?

    Better to let the kids suffer/die and go after the nearest male, to keep our feminist masters happy?

    I think I prefer the Saudi model of “womins” rights to yours.

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  129. Longknives (4,620 comments) says:

    Bereal didn’t even take the bait regarding the mighty 2003 English Rugby team…

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  130. mikenmild (11,158 comments) says:

    Kea
    Some women abuse their own kids; some participate in the abuse of their own kids; some incite their partners to abuse their own kids, some acquiesce because they don’t care; some convince themselves it isn’t happening; some will be beaten or killed if they do anything, etc, etc. Need I go on? Like most of human behaviour, there is a spectrum of sorts.

    No staggeringly stupid one-line cliches represent any kind of solution.

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  131. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Yeah I know all that mikenmild. Whats your point, or are you showing off how smart you are?

    I was assuming other readers would know all that too, and I did not want to insult their intelligence by pointing out the obvious. Clearly you are not concerned about that.

    There is also nothing wrong with making generalizations. Exceptions do not make the rule and I do not need to refer to all the billions of people on earth individually every time I make a valid statement.

    >No staggeringly stupid one-line cliches represent any kind of solution.<

    Ok what is your solution smart-arse?

    You are such a self-righteous self-absorbed bore, I am sure you must have some idea.

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  132. mikenmild (11,158 comments) says:

    I’m not proposing this nonsense (was it bereal?) so I’d say it was over to those who think it’s a good idea to articulate a sensible argument to support it.
    I’m all in favour of people being held accountable for harm, but I don’t have a miracle cure to sell and I doubt that locking up more women is likely to help much when they are the fastest growing segment of the prison population already.

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  133. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Ok. But what is your solution?

    So what if they (women) are the fastest growing segment of the prison population?

    Using that logic should we jail less child molesters ? After all, you think jail is no “help” for those who torture babies to death. Your ok with letting them stay free !

    I agree jail is rarely a good solution (for anything) but why does that fact only apply to women, in your world?

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  134. mikenmild (11,158 comments) says:

    As I said, I’m all in favour of people being held accountable for harm. Did I have to explain that does not mean letting those who torture babies go free? Some women are quite rightly in jail. A rising prison population is rarely a good sign so I’m naturally cautious about applying a more punitive approach on the basis of gender alone when the numbers of women in jail have already been rising rapidly.
    I’m not going to propose a solution. I am not obligated to do so. It’s a little like Russell’s teapot for atheists – extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. A proponent of holding the women responsible should be able to advance some argument in support of that extraordinary opinion.

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  135. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I did advance an argument in support.

    Women get a much easier time in our justice system and they know it and they take-the-piss big time.

    Don’t even think about telling me otherwise. I have spent a fair amount of time in a Court room and have seen it first hand.

    Its appalling how little they are held accountable compared with similar situations involving men. The neglectful abusive mothers just palm off responsibility to a man. Our justice system is only too happy to oblige, as it fits the feminist narritive nicely (its ALL mens fault)

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  136. mikenmild (11,158 comments) says:

    Fair enough, I concede that is an argument. It’s not an argument that I find persuasive on the face of it or on it being backed by what you have seen in court. I should have thought that results – more prosecutions and imprisonment of women – would tend to suggest otherwise.

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  137. calendar girl (1,193 comments) says:

    Joana @ 5:18pm – “FrankPJ
    I couldn’t get thru to your link..but I agree , the elephant in the room in NZ , is paedophilia….How long before Calendar Girl turns up?”
    OK, Joana, here I am. But you’ve lost me totally. What is that comment all about?

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  138. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    What is suggests mike is that women are offending more and more, knowing they have to be pretty rotten before they will ever see a cell.

    This applies to single mothers most of all, who will cart their kids along to sentencing and all appearances leading up to it. They know dam well how reluctant a judge is to send a mother to jail.

    For a women to go to jail, she has to really work at it.

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  139. Reid (16,061 comments) says:

    Have a look at the link at 10:47 calendar girl.

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  140. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Kea (498) Says:
    October 31st, 2012 at 11:13 pm
    What is suggests mike is that women are offending more and more, knowing they have to be pretty rotten before they will ever see a cell.

    That’s a pretty cold and calculating thinking process you are suggesting for our fair maidens, Kea.

    I haven’t seen prosecutors alleging premeditation often, if at all, in cases where women do abuse their kids, certainly not in the cases published in the media that I have seen.

    Do you any have evidence for your assertion?

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  141. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I checked out the link. You would have to be pretty green to think that was credible.

    I think there is way more to that story !

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  142. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I have the “evidence” of my own own eyes and ears Luc.

    I have seen many men get screwed over and many guilty women walk free. It happens enough to be a pattern.

    I feel no need to expand on that to prove what I already know, to KB readers. Either you accept it or not.

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  143. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    tom hunter (3,770) Says:
    October 31st, 2012 at 10:39 am
    Mike Bloomberg is a neoliberal, ruthlessly successful capitalist and he has no problem grasping the science. NYC is lucky to have him …

    Poor Luc, far behind the ball, as usual.

    Here’s what Brendan Loy – Warmist and self-proclaimed Weather Nerd, whose site was just about the best to follow during this hurricane, including alerting people to its possibilities days earlier than the MSM – had to say about Bloomberg on his twitter:

    Brendan Loy @brendanloy

    “With this storm, we’ll likely see a slow pileup of water rather than a sudden surge” -Michael Bloomberg, idiot, 10/27/12. #ImpeachBloomberg 30 Oct 12

    and again …

    Brendan Loy @brendanloy

    Bloomberg’s “less dangerous” non-”sudden surge” was every bit as ignorant junk science as Akin’s comment, & far more consequential. #resign

    Tom, Tom, Tom…

    http://www.democracynow.org/2012/10/30/an_eyewitness_report_on_flooding_in

    Quote from report: “And what we saw last night was that the surge swept in throughout basically the entire neighborhood…”

    But hey, what would the people actually in the surge area know, eh Tom?

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  144. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Seriously, there is no reason whatsoever to justify Ali Williams’ selection.

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  145. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Showing guts to make a bold prediction: http://thehill.com/opinion/columnists/dick-morris/264935-here-comes-the-landslide

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