A gay red top

November 5th, 2012 at 3:29 pm by David Farrar

You know, having now seen the top, the description isn’t totally inaccurate :-)

Stuff reports:

Key flirted with controversy again that day on the Farming Show radio programme when he slagged off host Jamie Mackay for wearing red.

He said the host would not do well in a charity golf event that afternoon because he was wearing ”that gay red top”.

Key had made the remark after offering to donate up to $10,000 for a charity golf tournament if Mackay shot a hole-in-one.

“You’re going to be nervous when you line up in those par threes now, aren’t you. You’re munted mate, you’re never going to make it. You’ve got that gay red top on there.”

Of course there is outrage. But I think the comments from two gay groups were fairly reasonable:

Rainbow Wellington chairman Tony Simpson said Key may have used the word ‘gay’ in the broader sense, but it was a peculiar choice.

“We won’t get really far as a society if we start walking around calling people names. Hardly seems productive activity.”

Gay Auckland Business Association chief executive Gresham Bradley said he wasn’t offended by Key’s comment, but that it could be taken the wrong way.

“Given the way ‘gay’ is used today as a derogatory remark I’m a bit surprised he would say that,” Bradley said.

“I personally don’t take offence from this coming from , who I know to be a very supportive person of the gay community.

‘‘[However] I think he may wish to consider the wisdom of using that word as people could easily misinterpret his meaning.”

I agree with Gresham. People can misinterpret, especially when it is the PM, so he should avoid the phrase. But can we have less of the hysteria sweeping certain people about it.

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98 Responses to “A gay red top”

  1. Reid (16,085 comments) says:

    We won’t get really far as a society if we start walking around calling people names. Hardly seems productive activity.”

    If gays didn’t want people to use the word gay, why did they adopt it for themselves, in the first place?

    …can we have less of the hysteria sweeping certain people about it.

    But it’s a humanitarian twagedy. I expect Joris to fearlessly wade in any second. Oh the humanity!

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  2. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    Some precious homosexuals have stolen the perfectly valid word gay.
    They can take all the offense they want.

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  3. mara (750 comments) says:

    Why does this non-story even make the news? FFS, move along.

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  4. Pete George (23,273 comments) says:

    The faux taking offence campaign at Key’s utterances is what’s really gay.

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  5. Reid (16,085 comments) says:

    Why does this non-story even make the news?

    Because the media are breaking Key’s halo, mara. This comment just follows on from the Beckham one. It’s no accident it was broken just as the Beckham news cycle was moving on.

    Previous comments about him looking tired a few weeks ago are all part of the same meme. This is how the sheeple get told how to think.

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  6. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    What a joke, so gays don’t like others changing the word ‘gay’ to something else yet again?

    So so pwecious are NZ’s sodomites and fishmonger’s ex-wife’s new wifes! :cool:

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  7. eszett (2,356 comments) says:

    This story is sooooo gay.

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  8. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    A red-rag to a bull-dyke! :cool:

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  9. Urban Redneck (234 comments) says:

    There will come a time in this country when comments such as Key’s “gay” remark will be a crime. Homofascism is one of the biggest threats to individual liberty in this country and false “rights” issues like genderless marriage are merely a trojan horse towards achieving those ends.

    For example, in Australia it was revealed that students at 12 NSW high schools are being taught it is wrong and ‘heterosexist’ to regard heterosexuality as the norm for relationships. The ‘Proud Schools’ pilot program, implemented in 12 government schools in Sydney and the Hunter, is designed to stamp out ‘homophobia, transphobia and ‘heterosexism’. If this lunacy is going on in NZ schools I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised, either.

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/sydney-news/being-straight-no-longer-normal-students-taught/story-e6freuzi-1226497360980

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  10. David Garrett (6,712 comments) says:

    Does anyone else get the feeling that the PM may be “over” being PM, and ready to move on to other things on his bucket list? He clearly has stopped worrying – or not worrying as much – about offending those just waiting to be offended.

    But on another level…isn’t it amusing how “language evolution” is just fine when it involves ever sloppier standards of written and spoken English, but an absolute outrage when an appropriated word evolves into meaning something else again?

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  11. RRM (9,631 comments) says:

    I can remember when you used to be able to talk about Niggers, Gooks, Kikes and Dagoes without people getting all That’s racist! with you.

    All this political correctness gone mad has ruined free speech. I blame the socialists.

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  12. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Urban Redneck#

    Agree.

    What I find amusing about all this is when you here gays announce – “I always knew I was gay, right from a very early age.”

    Yet their own parents don’t detect it, nor do teachers, relations or -unbelievably- child phsycologists!

    I’ve never ever ever heard of any ADULT say about a 6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13 yld “He’s gay!”

    I call BULLSHIT on the Gay Lobby – again! :cool:

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  13. simo (150 comments) says:

    FFS……this is what gives the Whale oxygen, MSM and Labour Party rainbow wing carping on about irrelevant drivel.

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  14. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    What’s offensive about restricting free speech if it changes people to become lovers of peace instead of warmongers?

    Or users of clean energy instead of polluters?

    Or tolerant of other peoples sexuality, religions, races, culture and heritage instead of being monoculturalist rednecks and racists?

    Well, there is nothing ‘offensive’ about it at all – just a few million deaths in the re-educative process, well anyway, it’s all in a good cause!

    Can’t make the perfect omelette without breaking a few eggs, eh ! :cool:

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  15. david (2,552 comments) says:

    What a load of crap and a bunch of idiot journos racing round looking for someone who was offended. Since when was the word gay given exclusively to homosexuals, and BTW I have yet to see two red sweaters rooting each other so in that sense gayness MUST have been referring to something other than homosexual knitting. It really is apalling that we get this shit put up for our consumption – in a restaurant you would send it back.

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  16. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Key had made the remark after offering to donate up to $10,000 for a charity golf tournament if

    Funny how the focus was not on the $10,000 he was donating out of his own pocket.

    Shows what a miserable bleak bunch our socialist social engineers really are. I am sure most “Gays” agree with me.

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  17. PaulL (5,977 comments) says:

    It is common usage. And it is not politic for a Prime Minister to use it. Prediction from me – nobody who would have voted National will have changed their mind (if anything they like him more), some who would have voted left will take offence, and a bunch of people who would have voted left will be thinking “that John Key, he’s a normal bloke”.

    Storm. In. A. Teacup.

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  18. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “……But on another level…isn’t it amusing how “language evolution” is just fine when it involves ever sloppier standards of written and spoken English, but an absolute outrage when an appropriated word evolves into meaning something else again?…’

    Except for anal ‘sex’.

    Maybe we could now use ‘sodomy’ to describe how MP’s impose policy on the country? :cool:

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  19. eszett (2,356 comments) says:

    Mention the word “gay” and Harriet goes into overdrive. What’s up with that?

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  20. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    How do we know he didn’t mean that its a happy looking top?

    snigger … chuckle … guffaw

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  21. David Garrett (6,712 comments) says:

    Dont quite follow you there Harriet…

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  22. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “….Mention the word “gay” and Harriet goes into overdrive. What’s up with that?…”

    Because being gay is a mindset.

    Just look at how the debate on anything to do with gays is fought – with emotion. Very very few facts, but mass emotion.

    The gay lobby does nothing less than abuse those who are sympathetic to gays. We are only ‘allowed’ to be sympathetic to gays because they are ‘denied’ things like Marriage.

    We are not EVER allowed to be sympathetic as to why they are gay, or why they choose to remain gay – even to their own detriment.

    People either have to obey the gay lobby – or be deemed as unfit for ‘modern’ society.

    It’s an immature and pathetic lobby!

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  23. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    ‘…Dont quite follow you there Harriet…”

    When did sodomy become ‘anal sex’?

    It isn’t ‘sex’- it can’t possably be.

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  24. RRM (9,631 comments) says:

    I don’t think the gays want your “sympathy” Harriet.

    Most of them seem to “merely” want full civil rights, in reflection of the fact that they pay the same taxes as the rest of us..

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  25. trout (918 comments) says:

    I am seriously offended by the misappropriation of the word ‘gay’ by the homosexual community. And don’t even mention ‘rainbow’.

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  26. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    ^ Its a sex act Harriet….how is it not?

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  27. David Garrett (6,712 comments) says:

    Ah, right Harriet I get you….but if you want to extend that thought, “oral sex” is alternative short hand for two very long words that few can spell correctly…I am all for language precision, but sometimes short hand is good…

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  28. david (2,552 comments) says:

    But what happens when two gay sweaters want to adopt a pair of socks? Is it allowed or can they only adopt beanies? What crap!!

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  29. Pete George (23,273 comments) says:

    It looks like Key has gone PC retrospectively:

    @katieabradford: Key looked embarrassed about gay red shirt comments. Admits phrasing unfortunate. Picked up the ‘slang’ from his son.

    @boswellryan: Key says ‘gay’ means ‘weird’ and he picked up the term from his kids #gayredtop

    The media can be anal sometimes (don’t take that the wrong way Harriet). And some can be funny:

    Toby Manhire ‏@toby_etc: MAX MUST RESIGN. #gayredtopgate #batshitgate

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  30. Longknives (4,671 comments) says:

    What the hell is the “Gay Auckland Business Association”?
    And why would we possibly need one?

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  31. RRM (9,631 comments) says:

    I don’t think “we” are paying for it Longknives! (If that’s what you meant by “why would WE possibly need one?)

    I think they’re a bit like the Freemasons, except that instead of a secret handshake, they have….. er…..

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  32. Pete George (23,273 comments) says:

    Longknives, it’s not a matter of whether we need one, it’s up to them if they want one.

    There’s a similar organisation in Dunedin.

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  33. Longknives (4,671 comments) says:

    “I don’t think “we” are paying for it Longknives! ”

    Okay if you guys say so – only you would be surprised what the ever-generous New Zealand taxpayer will spring for these days…(without even knowing it)

    I still can’t even think of many ‘Gay Businesses’….(apart from the fudge industry)

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  34. eszett (2,356 comments) says:

    Because being gay is a mindset.

    Setting aside the absurdity of that statement, still doesn’t explain why mentioning the word “gay” sets you off into overdrive like this.

    Your next sentence, however, may explain it a bit more:

    Just look at how the debate on anything to do with gays is fought – with emotion. Very very few facts, but mass emotion.

    Indeed, Harriet, your posts contain very very few facts (if any at all) and are all but “mass” emotion.

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  35. Akaroa (552 comments) says:

    Come along people!

    Good heavens, my teen-age grandsons told me long ago that the mild pejorative “GAY” had developed well past the stage at which it had come to mean homo-sexuals.

    Gay, in contemporary parlance, means what the words ‘dumb’, ‘square’ and ‘not-with-it’ meant a few eons ago.

    In my vocabulary and, I suspect that of your average teenager, “gay” just means ‘hopeless’, or, in this case, ‘useless’

    Get with the programme folks!! Your over-delicate sensitivities are showing!

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  36. David Garrett (6,712 comments) says:

    RRM: You are a very very naughty leftie…you think violent crims should be locked up, and you mock the gay business association and its…recognition signal….No wonder you need to use a pseud!

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  37. Pauleastbay (5,035 comments) says:

    Akaroa

    You’re right, my teenagers use “fag” for gay and “gay” for some of my sharpest attire and only stop when I remind them that Xmas is only 6 weeks away.

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  38. redeye (636 comments) says:

    The top is pretty gay cause it looks like the sort of top a gay guy would wear. What’s offensive about that?

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  39. Shunda barunda (2,966 comments) says:

    If Key had have said “wear that and you’ll look like an arse rooting poof” I think people would have a (small) reason to be upset, but ‘gay’?
    nigga pleeeeeeease!.

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  40. davidp (3,556 comments) says:

    Here is something that IS gay. Gayer than a gay red top:

    http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2012/11/05/314845_ntnews.html

    To summarise… A bloke decides to sleep in his car at a place which turns out to be a gay pickup spot. Hijinks ensue.

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  41. Shunda barunda (2,966 comments) says:

    The top is pretty gay cause it looks like the sort of top a gay guy would wear. What’s offensive about that?

    That is ssoooo offen-ssuve!

    He should have said: “if ya wear that top you’ll look like a f@ckin sheila!”

    Oh wait!!…….

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  42. Longknives (4,671 comments) says:

    Hmmmm…A Sailor who ‘accidentally’ fell asleep right in the middle of a Gay ‘Cruising’ spot.

    Reminds me of the time I slipped and fell awkwardly getting out of the shower and that shampoo bottle ‘accidentally’ inserted itself inside me….

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  43. Shunda barunda (2,966 comments) says:

    Do any of you Wellington fag hags know if talking with a lisp for a laugh is ok? or do the urban queers get all tetchy about that too?.

    An unfortunate part of my sense of humor (for my wife anyway) revolves around going into character of everyone from West Coast red necks to urban-liberal-socialist-progressive-Wellington-queers.

    Is that allowed in the big smoke? ;)

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  44. the conservative (59 comments) says:

    Our modern-day liberals are so sensitive, and they don’t even know why; they don’t even know they have been brainwashed through our educational institutions. They are walking zombies without a rational thought in their heads, and are incapable of rational thought. They are the brainwashed mob that is constantly on the lookout for offensive speech. As Rowan Atkinson put it—in a speech at Westminster on a campaign against a UK-hate-speech law—“liberals………are the self-appointed arbiters of the public good.” Watch the video in which he clarifies the very insidious nature free-speech restrictions; what these blind liberals are doing without question:
    http://www.theconservative.co.nz/?q=node/71

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  45. Shunda barunda (2,966 comments) says:

    Reminds me of the time I slipped and fell awkwardly getting out of the shower and that shampoo bottle ‘accidentally’ inserted itself inside me….

    Three of my kids were conceived that way, accept it didn’t involve a shampoo bottle, it was something else entirely.

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  46. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    …” if talking with a lisp for a laugh is ok? or do the urban queers get all tetchy about that too?.”…..

    Who knows? Who cares? Just do it. :)

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  47. Shunda barunda (2,966 comments) says:

    Who knows? Who cares? Just do it.

    I was talking all ‘lispy’ on a work site once, I almost got my beans over it from an insecure redneck “talk like it you are it” he said.

    I think he fancied me! :)

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  48. iMP (2,331 comments) says:

    John Key’s comment reaches America.

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gayness-lost-in-translation/

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  49. eszett (2,356 comments) says:

    Of course there is outrage

    Who is actually outraged? .

    NRT so far, but really, he is outraged if Key just breathes.
    Anyone else?

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  50. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    Is that a bloke? My eyesight is not to good and the photo is a little out if focus. At first I thought it was der Clarkenfurher if it’s a bloke he defiantly has a gay choice in clothing :grin:
    Good on key shows he is not some gay anal loser stuck in the fifties with a myopic aversion to TXT speak and the younger generation.

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  51. UpandComer (522 comments) says:

    That top indeed is gay as hell.

    It makes that male look like an old lesbian.

    People who react to the word ‘gay’ are really gay.

    But still John should be careful.

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  52. Minnie1972 (42 comments) says:

    I try to encourage my kids to not call things gay because I do think it is used in a derogatory way – however I think many everyday people use it without thinking and certainly without intending to cause offence. The responses, as DPF says, are entirely reasonable and not full of outrage. People who ARE accusing Key of being some sort of a homophobe are really over the top and, I would guess, are the kind of people, both gay and straight who will find anything he does or says offensive in some form or another. The point about his generosity in offering to donate to charity is entirely lost. People like Key because he has a personality and sometimes he might say things that people don’t particularly like, but I’d rather that than someone like Jenny Shipley who had the personality of a piece of Styrofoam.

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  53. Minnie1972 (42 comments) says:

    Harriet – “I’ve never ever ever heard of any ADULT say about a 6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13 yld “He’s gay!””

    Really? I have, frequently. Heck as a ten year old at a Catholic school there were two boys who, although I didn’t know what “gay” was, we all knew were ‘different’. Sure enough they’re both gay.

    Fairly common.

    Of course, if it doesn’t fit your theory on homosexuality, you won’t see it or say it, and I dare say the people you associate with won’t either.

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  54. eszett (2,356 comments) says:

    UpandComer (316) Says:
    November 5th, 2012 at 6:28 pm

    That top indeed is gay as hell.

    It makes that male look like an old lesbian.

    People who react to the word ‘gay’ are really gay.

    But still John should be careful.

    With a moniker like that, you should be careful commenting on gay issues. :-) :-) :-)

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  55. Minnie1972 (42 comments) says:

    So Harriet, oral sex isn’t sex either?

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  56. b1gdaddynz (279 comments) says:

    He was just trying to say it was a happy cheerful colour! Homosexuals don’t own the word and it has multiple uses; no one with half a brain thinks he was referring to homosexuals! Mind you it probably takes attention off actual issues!

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  57. Doug (407 comments) says:

    Wonder what happened to all the girls in the pre 1990′s with the name Gaylene, Gay for short they must feel insecure and pissed off with their name taken.

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  58. bc (1,344 comments) says:

    Putting aside the issue whether the word ‘gay’ is offensive or not, is it wrong to expect our prime minister to be a bit, well, prime-ministeral (if that is such a word)?

    Comments like “You’re going to be nervous when you line up in those par threes now, aren’t you. You’re munted mate, you’re never going to make it. You’ve got that gay red top on there” makes our prime minister sound a bit boorish.

    Remember, this wasn’t a private conversation, it was said over the airwaves!

    Like DG, I do wonder if John Key has had enough of this prime minister business. He seems to just want to be one of the boys.

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  59. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    I had an colleague once named Gaye. When the poofs took the word over as their own she started to have to introduce herself as “I’m Gaye, with an E”.

    Buggered her whole being I would say.

    I’d hate to be a poof.

    Get to spend your whole sad life being offended easily! :)

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  60. Doug (407 comments) says:

    bc (603)

    Like DG, I do wonder if John Key has had enough of this prime minister business. He seems to just want to be one of the boys.
    That’s why the public love him and he stays high in the Polls.

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  61. toad (3,672 comments) says:

    “You’re going to be nervous when you line up in those par threes now, aren’t you. You’re munted mate, you’re never going to make it. You’ve got that gay red top on there.”

    A lot of the punters here are missing the point. That comment can only be interpreted as reinforcing the stereotype that gay men are useless at sport – exactly the sort of stereotype that causes gay kids to be bullied at school and even driven to suicide.

    I don’t think Key was being maliciously homophobic in saying it, but it was a stupid and unthinking thing for a PM who purports to support gay rights to say to ingratiate himself with the homophobic punters who are probably a big part of the audience he had on that particular show.

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  62. Griff (6,988 comments) says:

    Toad gay means uncool in 2012\
    IE the greens are all gay because they want to fuck the country over and will not allow a clean energy industry

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  63. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Gay once also meant “happy” toad or are you so obsessed with your hatred of our wonderful, most popular leader you are reading only what suits your vicious bile into his comments?

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  64. big bruv (13,548 comments) says:

    Toad seems determined to see that as many Kiwis remain “victims” as possible.

    I am not homophobic, I simply don’t care what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home but to suggest that we all need to be terribly PC just because it might upset somebody who is gay is getting bloody ridiculous.

    Remember people, if Toad and his lot had their way these “victims” of gay taunts would be able to live on a benefit (which would be even more generous under a Labour/Green govt) because others had been nasty to them.

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  65. Shunda barunda (2,966 comments) says:

    A lot of the punters here are missing the point.

    You for a start.

    That comment can only be interpreted as reinforcing the stereotype that gay men are useless at sport – exactly the sort of stereotype that causes gay kids to be bullied at school and even driven to suicide.

    BaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaLLLLLLLLLLL…………..Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitt

    I don’t think Key was being maliciously homophobic in saying it, but it was a stupid and unthinking thing for a PM who purports to support gay rights to say to ingratiate himself with the homophobic punters who are probably a big part of the audience he had on that particular show.

    Homophobic punters, Ha!!

    I saw one of them on the Avon river in Christchurch!! :)

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  66. big bruv (13,548 comments) says:

    Hey Johnboy.

    The Canterbury rugby team wear red tops, does that make them all gay?

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  67. Shunda barunda (2,966 comments) says:

    Dan Carter maybe :)

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  68. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    Exackery BB. No sane man would suggest that to Todd or Richie. As JK was just saying they are happy chappies.

    Not an offended poofter amongst their ranks I suspect! :)

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  69. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Minnie 1972 & Eszett #

    Harriet – “I’ve never ever ever heard of any ADULT say about a 6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13 yld “He’s gay!”……….Indeed, Harriet, your posts contain very very few facts (if any at all) and are all but “mass” emotion…..”

    I said ‘adult’ and you gave examples from kids Minnie.

    The fact is schoool teachers and parents DON’T go about saying that “7yld Mike is gay” or “6 yld sarah is going to be a lesbian.”

    No one says it because the kids themselves don’t say it, or anything like it, yet kids of that age nearly always come out with what is on their minds.

    I stand by my statement that gays do not know they are gay at that early age – even if they say as adults “I knew from a very early age that I was gay.”

    As I’ve said often before, most adult males who were sexually assualted by Catholic priests nearly always say to the courts, police and media the words “I went on to become gay.”

    Most gays are either the victims of child sexual abuse or were taken advantage of in their youth. With the gay lobby, education departments, news media and other followers of PC ‘muddying the waters’ for teenagers by suggesting to them that being gay is ‘natural’ and sodomy is just ‘anal sex’ I’m afraid society will see a lot more young men and women being taken advantage of by gays.

    If children are ‘affirmed’ into their sexuality at a young age they will definately be unconfused about what sex they are as teenagers and adults.

    The better part of John Keys Marriage -and everyone elses- is the development of children into adults. No right minded parent should let ‘social pressures’ debase their son’s or daughter’s sexuality – the consequences on them all are far too great.

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  70. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    What a sensible person you are Harriet.

    I’d be happy to make lambs with you! :)

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  71. nasska (10,865 comments) says:

    …”I’d be happy to make lambs with you! “…..

    I’d settle for the video rights. :)

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  72. ChrisM (101 comments) says:

    My son uses the word gay all the time to describe things that are weird or silly. As John Key seems to have a good relationship with his son, it is probable that he is picking up his slang. Despite what Toad thinks, it hasn’t anything to do with casting aspersions on homosexuals. Nothing more, nothing less than last year’s expression .

    All in all another beatup for the papers, rather than sensible and sober analysis of the world events.

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  73. the conservative (59 comments) says:

    I just love it when John Key gets a taste of his own liberalism. He said nothing when Paul Henry, Alisdair Thompson, and Andy Haden fell to the sword of the far left. He had a chance to quell the liberal onslaught then but chose not to. I am going to blog on this tomorrow.

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  74. Johnboy (15,537 comments) says:

    “I am going to blog on this tomorrow.”

    As usual, none of us will read it!!!! :) :)

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  75. toad (3,672 comments) says:

    @big bruv 8:51 pm

    Thanks for your auport in opposing homophobia BB,

    But:

    Remember people, if Toad and his lot had their way these “victims” of gay taunts would be able to live on a benefit (which would be even more generous under a Labour/Green govt) because others had been nasty to them.

    Dunno about Labour coz they are seriously confused about policy anyway, but nothing in Green policy would result in changing benefit eligibilty criteria. Greens are happy with the current criteria to get a benefit (before the “reforms” shortly coming into force).

    Main problem is the rate, which is not enough for most people/families to live on long-term.

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  76. toad (3,672 comments) says:

    @the conservative 9:20 pm

    Good luck! I suspect even most people on the right think like I do that Henry, Thompson & Haden behaved like dorks.

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  77. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Main problem is the rate, which is not enough for most people/families to live on long-term.

    Toad,

    with specific reference to the unemployment and domestic purposes benefits, they are not intended to be long term. Unlike the Greens, most New Zealanders do not see those benefits as alternatives to work.

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  78. toad (3,672 comments) says:

    @ChrisM 9:20 pm

    My son uses the word gay all the time to describe things that are weird or silly.

    Might be time to sit him down and have a little chat with him about how that language could offend and victimise kids who identify as gay.

    I have to admit to me and several mates similarly making life hell for the only openly gay guy in my Form 6 & 7 classes 40 something years ago by teasing him with language that had negative homophobic connotations. It is the thing from my past I most deeply regret.

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  79. Minnie1972 (42 comments) says:

    Harriet:
    If children are ‘affirmed’ into their sexuality at a young age they will definately be unconfused about what sex they are as teenagers and adults.

    My point is that CHILDREN themselves, not even knowing what “gay” is, could recognise the difference in other children.

    I CAN equally say that as an adult, watching my children (now aged 8 – 20) grow up there have definitely been children, boys particularly, who I have known were gay. It was as obvious as the nose on your face. “Homosexuality is a choice” is such an unoriginal argument – often, in my experience, made by people insecure about their own sexuality and struggling with their own demons…

    Oh, and you didn’t answer my question – oral sex isn’t sex?

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  80. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “….Oh, and you didn’t answer my question – oral sex isn’t sex?…”

    It’s mostly seen as foreplay.

    Sodomy on the other hand is seen mostly by society as taboo and not ‘part of’ the natural act of ‘having sex’. It is seen as rather disgusting and spreads disease.

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  81. Longknives (4,671 comments) says:

    “Sodomy on the other hand is seen mostly by society as taboo and not ‘part of’ the natural act of ‘having sex’. It is seen as rather disgusting and spreads disease.”

    Are you ‘channelling’ Patricia Bartlett Harriet?

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  82. Minnie1972 (42 comments) says:

    Oh, so oral sex is foreplay and not actually sex. So what about a heterosexual couple engaging in anal sex – that’s not sex either. Is it foreplay??

    I feel like I’m learning so much!

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  83. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    “…..So what about a heterosexual couple engaging in anal sex – that’s not sex either. Is it foreplay??…’

    It’s sodomy. And it has always been called sodomy up till about the time homosexuality was decriminilised.

    Or in other words – Before all social change first comes the change in language.

    See now Minnie what I mean about gays ‘muddying the waters’ and confusing ‘at risk’ teenagers?

    Gays will do anything to justify their behaviour.

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  84. eszett (2,356 comments) says:

    Most gays are either the victims of child sexual abuse or were taken advantage of in their youth.

    What utter bullshit. Pulling the ignorant Colin Craig again here.

    Sodomy on the other hand is seen mostly by society as taboo and not ‘part of’ the natural act of ‘having sex’. It is seen as rather disgusting and spreads disease.

    Mostly? You need to get out more, Harriet. You can think off anal sex as disgusting, doesn’t mean others have to think so. It is not a taboo any more. Just go into any straight sex shop and see how many anal toys you can get. Check out some porn sites and see how many anal scenes you get. Taboo my ass (pardon the pun) .

    And don’t come with this nonsense of “natural” act. Most of human sexuality isn’t “natural” (Whatever that means). Most of human sexual acts can spread diseases.

    No, the PM calling a shirt “gay” is not a problem (or homophobic for that matter)

    Harriet writing this ignorant nonsense in response to it on the other hand……

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  85. RF (1,341 comments) says:

    Good on you JK. Shove it right up where the sun don’t shine.

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  86. big bruv (13,548 comments) says:

    Toad

    There have always been things that you and I agree on, you are well aware what they are.

    However, raising benefits for bludgers and DPB slappers is not one of them.

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  87. Lee C (4,516 comments) says:

    This has nothing to do with sexuality it’s all about golf. He’s just messing with the guy’s mind before they tee off. Anyone who has played golf would recognise this in a flash.

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  88. Pete George (23,273 comments) says:

    Criticisms of the gay comment have been rampant and ridiculous. Reporting has also initiated another criticism. For example Rhinocrates at The Standard:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10845253

    Asked at his post-Cabinet press conference whether he was homophobic, Mr Key said: “No, I’m voting for gay marriage, I’m hardly homophobic – I led the charge on it.”

    Thought it was Louisa Wall who did that. Nah, turns out I was wrong.

    Louisa Wall initiated the gay marriage bill, and she did a very good job of promoting it and gathering support.

    But I think it’s a reasonable claim by Key, albeit hard to prove conclusively. It’s quite possible that his open endorsement “led the charge” of support for the bill, especially from those National MPs who voted for it.

    It’s impossible to say whether Key’s support made the difference or not on the final vote but there’s little doubt he was influential.

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  89. Harriet (4,614 comments) says:

    Eszet t& minnie1972 #

    “….You need to get out more, Harriet. You can think off anal sex as disgusting, doesn’t mean others have to think so. It is not a taboo any more. Just go into any straight sex shop and see how many anal toys you can get. Check out some porn sites and see how many anal scenes you get. Taboo my ass (pardon the pun) ….”

    More people still go to church in NZ than visit sex shops. And considering porn sites are on the world wide web……so too are millions more food recipies….have you ever eaten mung bean jelly rolls?….If sodomy ain’t that popular in practice then it ain’t that normal! Talking more openly about sodomy[or viewing it on pornsites] doesn’t mean it is being practiced more!

    And two blokes wearing nothing but raincoats and mutually masterbating each other outside a supermarket or school or the sand dunes is NOT sex. Only a narrow minded fool would believe that, or someone with an agenda who doesn’t want to conceed the fact! Sodomy between two blokes isn’t sex either. It’s sodomy.

    Being gay is not an act of deceit, so deceiving adolescents about what is natural, normal and healthy is not a road the gay community should go down!

    Especially if they want to help in the fight against child abuse!

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  90. Pete George (23,273 comments) says:

    “If sodomy ain’t that popular in practice then it ain’t that normal!”

    It’s obviously been a common practice at least since biblical times.

    Statistics vary but range from half to two thirds of homosexual males (not all enage in anal sex) and a quarter to a half of heterosexual.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anal_sex

    That sounds like it’s very popular, therefore according to Harriet it must be normal.

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  91. Richard29 (377 comments) says:

    Gay in the context John Key was using it (borrowed from his teenage son) is ‘mildly pejorative’ as a few people have stated above. As Griff has said above it is a generally used to mean ‘uncool’ and is heavily used by teenage boys who want to define themselves in opposition to anything less than 100% normal mainstream hetero masculinity. JK himself says he meant the word as a synonym for ‘wierd’.

    The other synonyms commonly used are:

    “Lame” (potentially offensive to people who have trouble walking),
    “Dumb” (potentially offensive to people who cannot speak)
    “Retarded” (offensive to people with intellectual disabilities)

    The last of these is already falling out of common usage for the same reason that ‘Gay’ is likely to over time. Most people genuinely don’t want to cause discomfort or offense to others. I would feel uncomfortable using the word ‘Retarded’ in a room full of people with intellectual disabilities.

    Some people can be hurt by it. I remember when I was working at one of my first jobs I used to use the word ‘Gay’ a lot in exactly the same kind of context as JK did – at one point a co-worker politely took me aside and explained that as somebody who identified with the word gay (and was identified as such by others) he didn’t like it when I regularly used the word ‘Gay’ as a synonym for ‘Crap’, ‘Useless’, ‘Dumb’ etc. I thanked him for his feedback and have ceased using it ever since. It’s not that I have been silenced by the Gay Lobby Language Nazi’s – I never meant to cause offence to anybody and I was simple aping the behaviour of my teenage male peers at the time (apologies to any apes who are offended by the use of the above verb).

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  92. Pete George (23,273 comments) says:

    Very good comment Richard29. I’ve used that in a post, it covers the issue well.

    I avoid using words in circumstances I think could offend people. I am offended by the use of some words.

    I generally don’t use the word ‘gay’ in any context, but it doesn’t offend my when it is used. It hasn’t bothered me when my children have used it in the ‘uncool’ context. I don’t mind that ‘gay’ is used in a homosexual context either, but I do think it’s a bit precious for those that now claim exclusive use of the word.

    It’s common to be conscious of what may offend, but it’s impossible to avoid all potential offence in language. And we shouldn’t have to try and consider the implications of any words we use, that would be ridiculous.

    Being sensitive to what might offend is important, but so is freedom of expression.

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  93. Elaycee (4,331 comments) says:

    Some people are rather precious…. and doesn’t it show!

    But given the indoctrination of PC speak during the dark, Klark years, I suppose we won’t ever see a return of Golliwogs, Noddy and Big Ears, Sooty & Sweep, The Black & White Minstrels and even one of my favourites: the Gaytime brand of icecream. :(

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  94. David Garrett (6,712 comments) says:

    Good Lord…this is STILL going?

    In an attempt to lighten things up a little…does anyone of mature years remember the following:

    1. During the homosexual law reform debate, one anti politican said if we passed the law, New Zealand would become the place you went for “sun, surf and safe sodomy” ? I don’t think it was John Banks…Norm Jones of Invercargill?

    2. The most unfortunate manufacturer in the world introduced an appetite suppressant called “Ayds”…around 1980….For obvious reasons the product sank without trace when stories of a mysterious wasting disease began to surface…

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  95. KiwiGreg (3,211 comments) says:

    @ Elaycee the Gaytime brand is for ice cream cones, pretty sure that is still around. Also Frosty Boy “often licked, never beaten”….. happier, simpler times.

    Why do elephants have big ears? Because Noddy wont pay the ransom. I miss being a kid!

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  96. mara (750 comments) says:

    Anyone remember David Bain’s horrible jumper back when he was first arrested? That poor chap must still be terribly traumatised by widespread descriptions of it. Where were all you sensitive souls then?

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  97. ChardonnayGuy (1,179 comments) says:

    Actually, when gaybos think someone’s badly dressed/coiffed/otherwise aesthetically tragic, we use “Christian” as a synonym for daggy. Given the poor aesthetic sense of many fundies, I suspect most of the rest of you can see why. As for my perception of the PM, feh. I agree, why is this ‘news?’

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  98. ChardonnayGuy (1,179 comments) says:

    It looks like a badly fitting cardigan. Therefore, the host was dressed like a Christian (hee hee hee)…;)

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