Showing his true colours?

November 24th, 2012 at 12:00 pm by David Farrar

at Tumeke blogs:

And the local right wing Jews dutifully pump out the IDF propaganda

People can decide for themselves what Selwyn’s (incorrect) labelling of me as a Jew says about him.

Tags:

87 Responses to “Showing his true colours?”

  1. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    He’s a naughty boy!

    I would have used the term “Israel apologists”.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. David Garrett (5,127 comments) says:

    Tim Selwyn…I know that name…is that the same chap who got a false passport in a dead child’s name? If so, his offence was of course much less serious and offensive than mine….

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Elaycee (4,067 comments) says:

    Apologist?

    Kettle meet Pot. It’s name is Abdul Ahmed Luc.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Droll Luc

    The fact of the matter is people die

    Heres whats happened in very simple terms:

    I think you are a dork and and oxygen thief, so I start lobbing rocks onto your house endangering your family. Now how long before you retaliate or run off to the cops?

    Why should you have to put up with it?,

    I would expect you to track me down and stop me endangering your family.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Elaycee (4,067 comments) says:

    @David Garrett: Yup – Tim Selwyn is one and the same.

    Selwyn was also found guilty of sedition in 2006 – the first person to be charged and convicted of this crime in NZ for over 30 years.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Selwyn

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. David Garrett (5,127 comments) says:

    Ah! THAT Tim Selwyn…funnily enough, although it emerged fairly soon after my downfall that Selwyn and a few others had done exactly the same thing as I had 25 years earlier, the MSM didnt seem at all interested….Selwyn was politically active then as he is now, was he not? Extreme leftie?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Kevin (1,122 comments) says:

    No thanks DPF, I’d rather eat a dog turd than read tumeke, to be brutally honest.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Robert Fisk is more eloquent than myself, Paul:

    “Self-delusional

    Oddly, the self-delusional policies which Israel has often fed upon – in its second Lebanon war in 1982, for example – returned this month. In Washington, the Israeli ambassador, Michael Oren, has been arguing that the Gaza war began in 1948, “the day Arab forces moved to destroy the newly declared state of Israel.” But this is untrue.

    The Gaza war began when Israel drove 750,000 Palestinians from their homes in that same year, many tens of thousands of them herded into the refugee camps of – yes, Gaza. It is their children and grandchildren who have been firing rockets into Israel – in some cases on to the very lands which their families once owned.”

    I suggest you read the whole piece

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-was-it-all-for-the-murder-of-palestinians-and-israelis-is-just-a-prelude-to-the-next-gaza-war-8344077.html

    and the comment that is currently top of the list is particularly informative.

    By the way, the article has 797 “strongly agree” ticks and only 54 “strongly disagree”.

    Anyway, I don’t think DPF was looking to turn this into yet another comments war on Israel – my main concern now is keeping and publicising the score from the ceasefire time – and Israel is already running true to form but thankfully Hamas ans the other resistance heroes are not rising to the bait.

    I fully expect Israeli aggression to intensify in the lead up to the election but I sense the rules of engagement have just been altered to be slightly less unfavourable to Palestinians.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Warren Murray (238 comments) says:

    David, perhaps i owe you an apology, i honestly thought you did have jewish ancestry. Got that from reading one of your travel posts. Not that i viewed that as being especially negative.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @David Garrett

    You know, you complain when others here raise that unfortunate episode of your younger days, and even I have to resist the easy dig, so why don’t you try to engage the content of his posts?

    Unlike you, he sensibly never went on to become an MP, so his political judgement would appear to be surer than yours.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. Ancient Dan (39 comments) says:

    A test ot delusional left wingness is their stance on Israel.
    An excellent article by Brenan O, Neill has an interesting take on the matter.
    http://www.spiked-online.com/site/article/13108/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. Michael (880 comments) says:

    I thought he ripped off the tax system by claiming GST to the tune of $250,000 for non existent transactions.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Fuck you are an idiot Luc.

    When Israel smashed them in ’48 when defending themselves against EXTERMINATION, it cemented their right to forever defend themselves.

    The ONLY reason that this war never ends is because the Arab world is built on just two pillars – pride and shame – arabs never reason[you can see that in ALL their young males]. All that the Arabs have to show from their fight against Israel is shame!

    The game is up for the so-called ‘western elites’ as ‘reason’ is what is expected from governments today.And Arab ones are NOT immune!

    Governments are either reasonable – or they are against us! :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. Chuck Bird (4,406 comments) says:

    I thought you were of Jewish decent David. I do not think there is any need to apologise for that as there would be nothing to be ashamed of if you were.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. kowtow (6,701 comments) says:

    Abu Lucy mentions Fisk. Here’s probably the only thing he ever wrote that;s worth reading. Note Abu Fisk tries to tar all religions with the same brush ,but reasonable folk know where the truth is on honour killings.Allahu akbar.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-crimewave-that-shames-the-world-2072201.html

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. Elaycee (4,067 comments) says:

    For anyone interested in reading facts, rather than getting sore eyes from trying to comprehend Ahmed Lucy’s propagandist version of the terrorist attacks against Israel, try this:

    http://www.idfblog.com/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Pipes is always a good read http://www.danielpipes.org/11359/palestine-refugees

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. bhudson (4,720 comments) says:

    Robert Fisk is more eloquent than myself

    You quote Fisk? Isn’t he the chap that has been found to make baseless assertions so often that his surname has become a verb? – ‘to Fisk’ is to tear an argument apart for lack of facts or evidence?

    And you think his assertions carry any weight?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. greenjacket (346 comments) says:

    Once upon a time, the Left was defined by internationalism. Now the Left is defined by kneejerk anti-Americanism, racism against Chinese (witness hysteria by the Left against Chinese investment, but silence when any others are investing), and anti-semitism.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Lucy, your hatred of the great Jewish State is unbound.
    Let me add that as a dedicated follower of Marx and communism, you also detest the United States.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. David Farrar (1,809 comments) says:

    I do have Jewish ancestors but I am not Jewish.

    In a religious sense I am Anglican.

    In an bloodline sense you are only considered Jewsih if your mother was Jewish. My Jewish ancestors are on my father’s side.

    Interestingly though under the Nazi Germany laws I would still have qualified for extermination.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Comments like that make it exceedingly difficult to make a sane criticism of Israel heard.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. kowtow (6,701 comments) says:

    greenjacket

    The internationalism of the left is still alive and strong ,especially when it comes to mass immigration from countries other than the host.
    It is a means of reducing the host to a nullity,you become a foreigner in your own land. Diversity and multiculuralism are the new catch phrases instead of the old and treasonous internationalism of exported revolution from the Soviet Union. Laws are passed to ensure critics are silenced and the concept of “human rights” and equality are used to elicit support of same from the numerous useful idiots.

    Helen Clark in her valedictory referred to her belief in “internationalism”,and recall the left anthem is still that old favourite of comrades everywhere, The Internationale.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Chuck Bird (4,406 comments) says:

    “Interestingly though under the Nazi Germany laws I would still have qualified for extermination.”

    It would appear that Selwyn would agree with the Nazi criteria although I would hope he would not go as far as call for your extermination. It appears the extreme left and extreme right have a bit in common.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    kowtow,

    You obviously prefer your politicians to create false divisions for you and promote an entirely fabricated ‘them and us’ agenda based on arbitrary national boundaries.

    Basically, Winston can play you like a fiddle.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Keeping Stock (9,788 comments) says:

    Tim Selwyn; he’s the axe through the window bloke, right? And he hangs around with Martyn Bradbury, the poor man’s Wolfie Smith. ‘Nuff said methinks.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Go on Ryan……JUSTIFY why you believe Israel should be pushed into the sea…with your several ‘criticisms’!

    If Iran can get away with talk like that Ryan….Then I can get away with saying that blacks in the US…..are worthless in an economic sense, they don’t really belong in the US, and jails are expensive to run, and O’bama knows he can’t help those who can’t help themselves……..blacks will look bad for a long time yet……black people are a joke.

    But at least I’m not suggesting that the Republicans are best to shoot them! :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Go on Ryan……JUSTIFY why you believe Israel should be pushed into the sea…with your several ‘criticisms’!

    Now, what were my words exactly when I said that?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Jews have as much reason to live as blacks in the US. :cool:

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @Ancient Dan (7) Says:
    November 24th, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    How interesting that Brendan O’Neill manages to write a tale of magnificent Israel been picked on by ‘western liberals’ without ever mentioning, even in passing, the 45 year old belligerent occupation of two of Israel’s outlying suburbs and exclusion of those people from the political environment that determines their fate. It’s a system similar to that which we call apartheid.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    I don’t understand why criticism of Israel divides between conservatives who support it and lefties who don’t. I mean it’s mental, because it’s a geopolitical question it’s not an ideological one. It’s not a patriotic question either. What the “conservatives” can’t seem to get through their thick skulls on this subject is the simple fact that Israel’s security has never and is not currently either, been under threat. A few crummy rockets are not a big fucking deal. What about that is hard to understand. That is simple reality: i.e. facts that exist, there we are, this is how it is, over there, today, on planet Earth. Most of them land in empty fields, as PROVEN by the low fatalities. Thereby PROVING, DER, that it’s not a security issue.

    And yet that’s the basis of these idiots justification for supporting poor widdle Isweal who in their complete and utter hallucination, actually think really in fact is under twemendous and imminent thweat from this absolute wain of wockets! I mean it’s completely mental. It’s like watching the entire world become temporarily a few clowns short of a circus on this issue, whenever it plays out, yet again, as it does from time to time.

    But the key point is, the truth of this issue does not lie in patriotically supporting Israel because you think it’s traitorous not to. The truth is, that’s irrelevant. What is relevant is geopolitically, what does this mean now and into the future. And is that good or bad. But yet this issue continually gets debated along the lines of the “patriotic” conservatives and the defenders of the victims, lines which are entirely irrelevant to the real question.

    Have a listen to the Special UN rappoteur on this on RadioNZ a few times last week on Checkpoint, he was worth listening to. One of the points he made is that the US must discontinue playing this double-game where it pretends to sponsor peace but is always on Israel’s side. Either it’s objective or it’s not. But don’t keep playing the double-game. It doesn’t work.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. thor42 (772 comments) says:

    @Luc Hansen – “…but thankfully Hamas ans the other resistance heroes are not rising to the bait. ”

    Oh, “resistance heroes”, are they?
    Would these be the same “resistance heroes” who have fired a thousand rockets into Israel in the last week or so?
    The same “resistance heroes” who are guilty of the worst child-abuse in the world, brainwashing their children with HATE and raising them to become suicide-bombers?
    The same “resistance heroes” who did NOTHING when **Egypt** annexed the Gaza strip?

    Hamas STARTED this scrap, Luc. But hey – don’t let the FACTS get in the way of a rabid leftist rant. Your standard of trolling is slipping, Luc…..

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @bhudson

    And you think his assertions carry any weight?

    Yes, I do, thanks for asking.

    Do I owe you a reply on the housing thread? Just so I don’t get accused of not fronting up ;-)

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “….Comments like that make it exceedingly difficult to make a sane criticism of Israel heard….”

    You can’t make a ‘sane criticism’ of Israel as they have been at war for over 50yrs…with little help…against fanatical neighbours who want to rid them to hell….literaly!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. Grendel (873 comments) says:

    oh the irony of Abu Lucy demanding that someone else respond to the content of the post. this from a useful idiot who can turn any post into an opportunity for a spiteful envy laden attack on John Key.

    DG, the sad thing is that all the whiny lefties i know are up in arms about 3 strikes and increasing powers of police etc as “people should have a chance to rehabilitate and have a second chance” want you hung for the crime of falsely obtaining a document for pecuniary purposes (which is the actual crime you gone done for, not the emotive “stole a dead babies identity”, which is in itself a logical fallacy).

    So its rehab and second chances and cuddles for baby bashers, murderers, drug fucked idiots etc, but you technically commit a crime but never profit from it and are only really guilty of having been an idiot, and its game over becuase you are ‘right wing’.

    Show both the lack of consistency and the moral fortitude of the left. how they can live with all the internal contradictions in their views is beyond me.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    Harriet, sorry, I might not have been clear. Can you please tell me what my exact words were when I said that Israel should be pushed into the sea?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Reid#

    “…..A few crummy rockets are not a big fucking deal….”

    Just an act of war.

    Really Reid!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. Elaycee (4,067 comments) says:

    Reid:

    A few crummy rockets are not a big fucking deal.

    So, 933 rockets fired by the Hamas terrorists into the sovereign state of Israel since November 14th (count the days, Reid) are (in your mind) a few crummy rockets and not a big fucking deal?

    Please let me know your street address / GPS coordinates and I’m sure Hamas will oblige. They have no issues firing rockets at civilians. I doubt you’d have such a soft cock, flippant attitude about 933 rockets being fired at you in the space of 10 days, if you were on the receiving end of that lot!

    You should really do some research, Reid, because there are two major factors that have limited the Israeli casualties: Firstly, Israel’s own defences have taken out many of these rockets in mid-air and second, Hamas are piss poor in the aiming department. Because it must be hard for Hamas to concentrate on loading the coordinates when kids are playing in the same playground and making the noises that kids do….

    Reid, you are starting to worry me with some of your recent comments – what the hell has happened to you?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    I doubt you’d have such a soft cock, flippant attitude about 933 rockets being fired at you in the space of 10 days, if you were on the receiving end of that lot!

    Yes but if Israel, who has all the options and all the power hadn’t attacked, then there would have only been three or four of them in the same timeframe, all of which would have probably landed in the fields, as they usually do.

    Don’t ignore facts like this Elaycee. They’re a relatively critical part of anyone’s evaluation of this situation. I know you don’t like them because they destroy your position, but your dislike of them doesn’t make them any the less factual.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Ryan#

    O.k I’m wrong, you didn’t say it. Israel has been at war for over 50yrs to secure it’s own existance and your ‘sane criticism’ I thought, would at best be minor infringements in that 50yr defence campaign. So I then was of the belief that you were sideing with the Arabs, unintentionly or intentionly.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. bhudson (4,720 comments) says:

    Yes, I do, thanks for asking.

    Thank you for confirming yourself that you attach credence to fact-free positions.

    Do I owe you a reply on the housing thread?

    Over to you really. I am sure I can find some minutes during the day to yet again refute your deluded belief in Keynsian economics.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @Manolo

    Ah, Daniel Pipes:

    The fetid, dark heart of the Arab war on Israel, I have long argued, lies not in disputes over Jerusalem, checkpoints, or “settlements.” Rather, it concerns the so-called Palestine refugees.

    It’s difficult to get past the nonsense in the first paragraph, isn’t it?

    First, there is no extant Arab war on Israel, neither is there one pending. That’s a great extension of the limited conflict of Palestinians fro their freedom from oppression. And the gratuitous insult that opens the piece sort of sets the scene for his racist diatribe, son’t you think?

    Second, he blithely skips over very extant dispossession of Palestinians since 1947 and the small fact of belligerent occupation.

    Third, yes, blame the victims is a much used weapon in the hasbara files, deflecting from the very real desire of the dispossessed to return to the land unjustly lost to a European colonial project of last century.

    I stopped at that point, sorry.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. Scott1 (357 comments) says:

    FWIW,
    I understand a lot of people on the ground in gaza are embarassed by hamas firing rockets at the israelis because it makes them look pathetic that they can fire 933 rockets and almost every one lands in the middle of a feild… before they get a house bombed in retaliation or whatever…

    I figure that israel, if it did not have to play to a domestic audience, could serve its own interests by highlighting how easily they can deal with the rockets usually.

    and on the other side..
    surely this term was ironic?
    “resistance heroes “

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    Reid#

    If you belief this war is over a few acres then you are deluding yourself, because a war over the likes of Taiwan would then be nuclear.

    This is about the extermination of Israel.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Elaycee (4,067 comments) says:

    Reid:

    Yes but if Israel, who has all the options and all the power hadn’t attacked…,

    Attacked? Attacked??? Israel retaliated against the Hamas terrorists because Hamas had fired rockets over the border into Israel! Jesus wept! What part of that can you not understand? And please don’t try to re-write history.

    And I note you’re not keen on passing on your address / GPS coordinates. But I suspect your reaction would be similar to mine if some arsehole terrorists fired ordnance over the fence into your place and threatened your family – because if it happened to me, I’d be over the fence pretty quick and I’d make 100% sure they wouldn’t get a chance for an action replay.

    The fact that Israel hasn’t done so, is remarkable. They’ve demonstrated huge patience in the face of extreme provocation from the Hamas terrorists. And no thinking person could possibly complain if Israel ever ran out of patience and finally lanced the festering boil that is Hamas, once and for all.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    Bad choice of words by Selwyn. Where he is right us that we do need to have an honest discussion about the role of Jewish racism in these events. Jewish racists get the sort of free ride Farrakhan gets, and its just as bad in both cases.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. V (660 comments) says:

    Reid,

    If I decided to send “a few crummy rockets” into your backyard, I guess you’ll be OK with that?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    O.k I’m wrong, you didn’t say it. Israel has been at war for over 50yrs to secure it’s own existance and your ‘sane criticism’ I thought, would at best be minor infringements in that 50yr defence campaign. So I then was of the belief that you were sideing with the Arabs, unintentionly or intentionly.

    I think the treatment of the local Arab population has been appalling. But idiots using terms like “right-wing Jews”, framing their criticism in terms of race rather than policy, make it much harder to make that kind of thinking heard.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    Crikey V. It’s bad enough Elaycee and Harriet are completely mental but et tu?

    As I’ve exhaustively explained in the simplest possible terms nine thousand times already, der, it’s about military threat. If a civilian get’s killed, if twenty get killed, THIS DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A THREAT TO ISRAEL’S SECURITY. YES, IT FUCKS OFF MILLIONS AND KILLS NOW AND THEN ONE OR TWO OF THEIR CITIZENS. BUT THIS DOES NOT REPEAT NOT REPRESENT A THREAT TO THE STATE OF ISREAL. I.E. ISRAEL IS NOT ABOUT TO BE INVADED, SOLDIERS ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE TO REPEL OFFENSIVE FORCES, ETC, ETC, ETC.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. thor42 (772 comments) says:

    Elaycee is spot-on.
    Israel is in the most *hostile* “neighbourhood” in the world.
    In that kind of environment, you have to be bloody tough yourself just to survive.
    If Hamas are *stupid* enough to fire rockets at Israel, then they deserve everything that comes back at them.

    Israel withdrew from Gaza. Israel withdrew from the Sinai (after the ’67 war).
    Nothing is EVER enough for the Muslim *savages*.

    We live in a SICK world when Hamas, Hezbollah etc are lauded as “heroes” and Israel is vilified as “evil” for defending itself.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Tom Jackson (2,235 comments) says:

    Nothing is EVER enough for the Muslim *savages*.

    And it’s this sort of eliminationist rhetoric that does nobody any good.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. V (660 comments) says:

    Reid,

    I think this provides the relevant rebuttal.


    When Israel’s short-sighted critics insistently refuse to look beyond the numerical asymmetry, the very effectiveness of Iron Dome becomes the latest weapon with which to attack Israel for its purported aggression. All those Gazans are suffering terribly, dozens have been killed, yet hardly any Israelis are dying? That can’t be right. How can the Israelis claim to be the victims of unprovoked and indiscriminate aggression? They’re still alive.

    Even the reasonably fair-minded foreign news teams focus on Gaza. It’s a much better story. When you’ve done the first article about Israel’s missile defense system intercepting a rocket that, yes, would have killed dozens in Ashdod, Ashkelon, Beersheba or Tel Aviv, except that it didn’t, you’ll only be repeating yourself if you do a second piece along the same lines a day later. But Gaza? Fresh faces of suffering daily.

    And the cumulative impact is to convey a sense of relentless Israeli assault on the densely populated Gaza Strip that simply must be unjustified. After all, again, the Israelis aren’t dying. They must be in the wrong.

    So to restate what is blindingly obvious and yet still so often ignored: The fact that Israeli citizens have not been dying in large numbers in this conflict to date has nothing to do with Hamas, which is employing its very mightiest efforts to kill us, and which is highly skilled and experienced in the endeavor. We live, rather, because in partnership with our American allies we added Iron Dome, a remarkable new supplement to the alarm systems, safe rooms, fortified schools and other measures into which we have poured effort and resources over the years to defend our civilians from attack.

    And Palestinians in Gaza are dying in growing numbers because they are either directly involved in trying to kill us or — to our genuine sorrow and Hamas’s cynical delight — they had the misfortune to be sleeping, walking, talking, studying or praying very close to a key Hamas terror chief, missile launch site, ammunition store or other element of the sprawling Hamas kill-the-Jews infrastructure.

    To put it succinctly, Hamas is doing its best to kill any and all of us in Israel, while cynically seeking to protect itself from attack by emplacing its offensive capacity among Gaza’s often unwitting civilians. And Israel is doing its best to prevent its citizens being killed, while trying to thwart the attacks without harming Gaza’s civilians. There’s the relevant asymmetry.

    The fact that Hamas and its Iranian-led sponsors have been thwarted this time — the shock they must have felt, and the awe we feel, at the astonishing success of Iron Dome — is no excuse for underestimating the ongoing danger. We reduced the strategic terrorist onslaught of the Second Intifada through a combination of arrests, intelligence work and the West Bank security barrier. So they switched their focus to rocket fire, devilishly anticipating that no barrier could stop an airborne assault. Now that we’ve found a means to reduce that threat, you can be 100 percent certain that our enemies are even now seeking new means to overcome those fiendish Zionists’ latest life-saving innovation.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    OK reid , hows this in the simplest terms, you’re fucking me off so I’ll just come around and give you a hiding, your neighbourhood is not going to be annexed, no one else is in any strife – just you.

    Now like I explained to that other fucking retard Luc, how long are you going to put up with me kicking your arse before you do something about it.?

    and Of course its a threat to the State of Israel you mong. Its infrastructure and citizen are getting damaged.

    No one was going to invade Northern Ireland either, but that didn’t make the terrorist threat any less real or the bombs any less deadly.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. Brian Marshall (181 comments) says:

    Reid. You fail. Go back to school and don’t swallow the propaganda so you can’t think rationally. 1 rocket is 1 rocket too many. Israel has not occupied Gaza or the westbank and the Arabs that live in their borders can vote and have full rights as do every other citizen. Can you tell me where the jewish Arabs are in North Africa? Iraq? or Arabia? Don’t go thinking that they all emigrated to Israel.

    Back to real issue though. Marxism taught/teaches that Race and Ideology were one and the same. Many Soviet people’s suffered from Stalin (and to a lesser degree Lenin) due to solely their ethnic background. Leftists are racists and don’t even know it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. Danny-boy (102 comments) says:

    Timmy’s not too fond of the Asians, either …

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    None of you idiots have explained how wocket attacks thweaten Iswael’s security. That’s the basis for your justification of the Israeli response. And that’s factually wrong, as I’ve explained.

    Until one of you can link wockets with security, you haven’t got an argument, and you can’t link them, can you.

    No you can’t. And until you do, discussing any other point you raise is completely pointless.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Its OK Reid you’ve made a total fucking arse of yourself on this so go and watch a bit of telly and regroup.

    Its not about Israel security being threatened its about Israel protecting its citizens from 1000 rockets just getting loobed into the arena

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. Harriet (4,010 comments) says:

    “….None of you idiots have explained how wocket attacks thweaten Iswael’s security….”

    So how about I just let fireworks off outside your window each night at 2am then?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    Its not about Israel security being threatened its about Israel protecting its citizens from 1000 rockets just getting loobed into the arena

    Yes Paul and if one really did want to stop a particular behaviour then why do the very thing one knows is guaranteed to provoke an increase in it? Which lo and behold proceeded to happen?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. Elaycee (4,067 comments) says:

    None of you idiots have explained how wocket attacks thweaten Iswael’s security.

    We’ve all tried to explain the obvious to you, Reid. But despite the number of times we’ve rung the bell, there’s no-one home at your place.

    If you seriously cannot rustle up sufficient cognitive skills to comprehend why Israel might just get seriously pissed off when terrorists continue to fire rockets at their citizens, then all you’ve done is confirm that you’ve completely and utterly lost the plot and become a victim of Ahmed Abdul Lucy’s propaganda.

    You’re behaving like an old bloke trying his best to piss into a howling Wellington southerly, but you haven’t worked out yet that the wet feeling you’re experiencing, isn’t from rain…

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    looks like Mrs Reid’s boy is the only one instep at the parade FFS

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Its not the rockets it is the stated aim of the organisation throwing them
    I can not understand how any one would support the Arab world in their attempts to wipe Israel, the most civilized state in the middle east of the face of the earth.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. V (660 comments) says:

    Suggesting that killing of one or twenty innocent civilians “DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A THREAT”, or merely “FUCKS OFF” people suggests the workings of an infantile mind.

    Perhaps you have been seduced by the daily trivia of NZ politics, but the primary responsibility of government is the defence of its people. It is downright dangerous to suggest that it should somehow look the otherway in appeasement.
    Even if it did as you suggest in appeasement what would happen – of course it would be more attacks.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    I can not understand how any one would support the Arab world in their attempts to wipe Israel

    Der Griff, why do you think I support them? I don’t and never have, ever. The question is whether Israel is right or wrong to do what she does how she does it. Support or the lack of it does not come into this calculation.

    Suggesting that killing of one or twenty innocent civilians “DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A THREAT”, or merely “FUCKS OFF” people suggests the workings of an infantile mind.

    Hallucinating that it does suggest the workings of an ignorant mind incapable of thinking straight. For I’ve already explained you moron, that the definition of a threat to Israel is, they’re going to be invaded and they aren’t and never were going to be. That makes the wockets you der, a harrassment, but not a threat. What the fuck about that is hard for you to understand?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    reid – the paint will be dry soon and you will be able to walk out of the corner, tail between your legs non the less and deservedly so because you have put up some serious gibberish today but at least you’ll get some sleep

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    Paul I’ve never said they should not respond, the question is how they respond, and I say by using snipers because for some reason, artillery rounds just seem to make more rockets fly, for some inexplicable hard-to-fathom reason, that’s what happens everytime. And yet you complete and utter mentals keep explaining how much a good idea it is to use those artillery rounds, in fact you seem to be disappointed the use of them has been stopped.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. V (660 comments) says:

    The reason Israel wasn’t going to be invaded is precisely because of their robust defence, not inspite of it. Not sure which part of that you can’t understand.
    Please tell how all this can be solved soley with snipers? How do they destroy rocket depots etc w/o laser guided weaponary? So I suppose these snipers are mean’t to roam around inside Gaza with no other combat support?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. bhudson (4,720 comments) says:

    Until one of you can link wockets with security, you haven’t got an argument, and you can’t link them, can you.

    A single rocket that penetrates Israel’s defences and threatens life or property is not just a threat to Israel’s security, it is an outright breach! Of their sovereignty as well as their security.

    A sovereign state has the role of defending its citizens; protecting them from harm. A rocket attack against Israel is a failure in that role. A failure to respond calls into question the state’s ability to meet its core responsibility.

    It isn’t a numbers game – not a single Israeli citizen should be threatened by outside forces, let alone harmed.

    It is quite some level of control that has seen Israel not escalate its retaliatory strikes far higher than it has.

    I say by using snipers because for some reason, artillery rounds just seem to make more rockets fly…

    Reid, you cannot seriously believe that if Israel snipers shot the Hamas leaders instead of using artillery, that Hamas would say “Good shot, old boy. Stand down chaps.” Utterly ridiculous.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. mikenmild (8,795 comments) says:

    The Palestinians lack the military capability to inflict serious harm on Israel. Israel lacks the military capability to prevent the Palestinians attacking at all. Stalemate. A political solution is therefore required but no solution seriously advanced so far is capable of achieving widespread political support on both sides. Stalemate continues indefinitely.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Israel lacks the military capability to prevent the Palestinians attacking at all.

    Not so fast, comrade mike.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. mikenmild (8,795 comments) says:

    Even PEB’s fantasy of flattening Gaza, people and all, could not be achieved by the IDF, assuming that the US would let them.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. Kimble (4,092 comments) says:

    More like showing his JEW colours.

    High five!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. Reid (15,531 comments) says:

    The reason Israel wasn’t going to be invaded is precisely because of their robust defence, not inspite of it. Not sure which part of that you can’t understand.

    V you don’t think their 350+ nuclear weapons had anything to do with it either, did you?

    Nothing about my argument entails Israel degrading or dropping her big stick. Everything I advocates focuses on her wielding it less indiscriminately and less brutally which is because they knock on the door with a 250 lb bomb which not only takes out the tewwowist but his neighbours as well.

    Reid, you cannot seriously believe that if Israel snipers shot the Hamas leaders instead of using artillery, that Hamas would say “Good shot, old boy. Stand down chaps.” Utterly ridiculous.

    V you’re late to this conversation which has been happening for some days. My position is if the rocket attacks are a problem use every resource at the IDF’s disposal to target the rocket teams as they position themselves to fire and take them out with extreme prejudice that is targeted. Given that Israel has via its US relationship access to some super stuff which would easily make this a practical thing is it better to do this, or to every now and then, every four years at election time, run an operation that “inevitably” produces civilian casualties.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    Resident Kiwiblog Neo-Nazi Luc Hansen trots out Robert Fisk.

    That would be the sane Robert Fisk who has been exposed as a fraud and a liar, who fabricated stories, claimed he was on the ground for stories when he was not even in the country, stoke other journalists stories and work, plagiarized stories, and made up news that had not happened. And of course like Luc Fisk is a deranged Jew-hater.

    And this Neo-Nazi pig wants us to take him seriously? By trotting out Fisk? By refusing to say whether or not he is a holocaust denier?

    What a joke.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    Google “Robert Fisk accused by colleagues of fabricating facts” to see what kind of a “journalist” Fisk really is, and what kind of sleazy liar Luc thinks is a credible voice on Israel.

    Delusional liars like Luc Hansen should be locked up in a rubber room.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    In response to Reid,

    To assert that the firing of rockets at Israeli citizens, including women and children is mete “harassment” is deranged thinking in the extreme.

    They ate acts of war, not harassment.

    Idiot.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. Yoza (1,348 comments) says:

    The trouble with the Palestinians is they have become surrogates for all of those indigenous populations colonised and dismembered by the various European colonial projects going on around the globe for the last three hundred years or so. These are among the last ‘unpeople’ in the world of whom the mainstream media can rationalise the slaughter. The ‘legitimacy’ of Israel is as empty as the ‘legitimacy’ of the US, New Zealand, Australia and so on – the big difference being the European colonial project in Palestine happened a century too late.

    I’ve just read the Tumeke blog and I see Selwyn makes a similar point: ” In Australia this colonial ideology was dubbed the “White Australia Policy”, in the United States it was called “Manifest Destiny”, in South Africa they called it “Apartheid”, in Israel they call it “Zionism” and in New Zealand and Canada – where conformist and incurious smugness combines with favourable comparisons to their bigger neighbours – their governments and European populations still can’t bring themselves to acknowledge they are colonial entities let alone give a name to what they have been doing.”

    At some point in the future the US will stop backing Israel, not out of any malevolent or benevolent bent, but out of a cynical analysis of the value Israel delivers against the political and financial capital the US expends. When that time comes Israel will be forced to repudiate the racist doctrine on which its ‘legitimacy’ is founded – in a way similar to that which the apartheid government of South Africa did.

    Those who pretend they are Israel’s supporters are, in reality, feeding an ultimately self-destructive delusion, a delusion promoted throughout Israeli and Western societies by a mercenary fourth estate.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. mikenmild (8,795 comments) says:

    Lee01
    I’m a bit interested in the whole Fisk/fisking thing. Could you link to a source showing Fisk’s fabrications? Hint: links to blogs do not count as a source.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. mikenmild (8,795 comments) says:

    Yoza
    You will only get in trouble talking about colonialism here. Kiwiblog observes some standards:
    1. Zionism is not colonialism
    2. Colonialism is no excuse for colonised peoples to whinge
    3. Colonialism was good for the colonised, especially if done by the British.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. hj (5,692 comments) says:

    3. Colonialism was good for the colonised, especially if done by the British.

    but if done by the Chinese it’s called “super diversity”
    http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle_uuid=65FC4CE3-96BF-57FE-A80B-B28A806A0D14

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Colonialism by the British was very good. Just consider what would’ve happened if NZ were left to the natives?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. mikenmild (8,795 comments) says:

    Most of us a culturally disposed to think the English settling NZ was a ‘good thing’, and it was, for them. Letting too many Chinese or even (gasp) Muslims come here is obviously another matter.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    Yoza,

    Zionism is a national liberation movement to reclaim stolen Jewish land from the Islamic Empire. My support of Isreal is neither delusional nor a pretense.

    Mike,

    I cannot currently paste links as the browser on my iPod crashes when I try.

    The news about Fisk has been all over the mainstream media. Just Google the issue. The charges against Fisk are very serious.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    “Racism” in the minds of the Left and Cultural Marxists is an accusation that holds no water. “Racism” is used selectively and dishonestly by the Left to attack Israel and the West, while conveniently ignoring the existence of racism in specially annointed “victim” groups.

    Much of the Arab and Islamic world, including the so-called “Pakestinians”, holds a view of global Jewry no different to that of Hitler and the Nazis, and has done so long before the liberation of parts of Eretz Yisrael. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem in the 30′s and 40′s, the supreme religious leader of the Islamic colony wrongly called “Palestine”, was an outspoken advocate of Adolf Hitler.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. V (660 comments) says:

    mikenmild,

    If you disagree with colonialism so much, plenty of opportunity to go and live like a stone age society, or move to a poor society, see how much you like it, rather than bashing out 5000 comments on kiwiblog. Nobody is holding you back.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    mikenmild (5,707) Says:
    November 25th, 2012 at 5:26 am
    Lee01
    I’m a bit interested in the whole Fisk/fisking thing. Could you link to a source showing Fisk’s fabrications? Hint: links to blogs do not count as a source.

    Lee01 (2,133) Says:
    November 25th, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    Mike,

    I cannot currently paste links as the browser on my iPod crashes when I try. No.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    @Lee01 (2,133) Says:
    November 25th, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    All completely irrelevant, even if completely true – and Israel only has itself to blame if those views are gaining currency.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote

Leave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.