General Debate 19 January 2013

January 19th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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116 Responses to “General Debate 19 January 2013”

  1. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Recent publication by IMF:

    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2013/01/was-john-howard-really-left-winger.html

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  2. hj (6,369 comments) says:

    Cry babies
    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2013/01/cry-babies-of-the-day-2/

    this sort of practice is wide spread. Whale oil wouldn’t want us to know that as mass migration from china is what the parasite rent seekers need.

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  3. Pete George (22,859 comments) says:

    @TheTweetOfGod
    You are made in My image. So it’s not that 10% of you came out wrong, it’s that I’m 10% gay.

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  4. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    So it’s no surprise Howard has been wheeled out to support Obama:

    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2013/01/aussie-ex-pm-john-howard-cups-obamas.html

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  5. Chuck Bird (4,684 comments) says:

    Tony Mangan of Dublin Ireland is Running Around the World

    I meet in Auckland Tuesday at the Auckland Joggers Club.

    He started his run yesterday and stayed at Drury at a friend of mine’s place.

    He will stay ay my place tonight. If there are any runners or joggers who would like to support him on his way south with accommodation or transporting his pack it would be much appreciated. You can contact him through his web site below or email me and I will pass the message on. chuckbirdnz@gmail.com

    http://www.theworldjog.com/

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  6. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    Les Munro, last surviving member of the original Dambusters, flew in a Mosquito over Wellington yesterday. Great stuff from a 93-year-old!

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/8197507/Magical-Merlins-in-a-flying-machine

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  7. flipper (3,570 comments) says:

    Lame-brain Fairfax, ultra left wing writer of fiction, one A. Hubbard, is at it yet again in today’s DomPost.

    This morning he attacks the Government film making tax/subsidy regime that attracts the likes of Cameron (to NZ), and keeps Peter Jackson (and thousands of NZ’ers) in gainful employmenmt.

    That Hubbard bases some of his crap on comments by that prize headline-hunting buffoon, Peters, is no excuse.

    His editor should be fired.
    (Say, is it true that they have joined the Helen Kelly team in support of her bid to extort the labour nomination for Miramar in 2014?)

    Heh, Fairfax! Bring on Gina Reinhardt. :)

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  8. flipper (3,570 comments) says:

    Les was also over the Wairarapa yesterday, as he was two years ago.
    Incidentally, what is the status of Jackson’s “Dambusters” – you know, the one without Nigger ?

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  9. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    This made me laugh but they take this seriously except this could happen in Ponsonby if they weren’t stuck up conservatives, I kid you not.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57564652/judge-public-nudity-not-political-speech/

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  10. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    How many young kiwi’s are asking the Q’s like this one is. If you read this you can test yourself on whether your Conservative or liberal in nature by giving a surface opinion. It’s a trick question.

    http://theworldisonebigballofamazing.tumblr.com/about

    This kid is 18 days into his walk.

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  11. Manolo (13,384 comments) says:

    Never short of scum: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wairarapa/8194935/Two-women-released-on-bail-over-death

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  12. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    flipper
    Don’t know about the Dambusters film. I asked an acquaintance at Weta a few months ago – no one knows. Film projects can be in limbo for years though.

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  13. WineOh (553 comments) says:

    The next phase of hand-wringing over film industry subsidies continues:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8197536/NZ-a-star-paying-to-act-in-a-supporting-role

    The article is quick to point out the large revenues generated by blockbuster movies, but conveniently ignores the costs to produce these. Shifted 3/4 of the way down the article is the most pertinent set of numbers in my eyes:

    “While the film-makers received $267m of subsidies between 2004 and 2011, they spent more than $1.9b in New Zealand, according to the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment. This includes spending on staff, catering, flights and hotel accommodation.

    “These productions grow the talent and skill of our local film industry and provide spill-over benefits to the wider economy, including the ICT and tourism sectors,” said a ministry spokesman”

    So wait… 7 dollars back into the local NZ economy for each dollar spent? And this is a bad investment how?

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  14. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    The argument over film subsidies can be a bit tiresome, but it is worth going back to basics. What other industries receive central government subsidies and on what basis? Should the government just be concentrating on getting the best environment for businesses to flourish, rather than doling out bundles of cash to large firms?

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  15. WineOh (553 comments) says:

    Also, a small deviation from the core topic, but for LoTR fans, great mashup found through Reddit. Almost made me snort my coffee.
    http://i.imgur.com/nyJds.gif

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  16. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    @mikenmild. NZTE funds promising start up tech firms as well.

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  17. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    WineOh (61) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 9:29 am

    That was good for the morning.

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  18. Sonny Blount (1,845 comments) says:

    mikenmild (6,457) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 9:27 am
    The argument over film subsidies can be a bit tiresome, but it is worth going back to basics. What other industries receive central government subsidies and on what basis? Should the government just be concentrating on getting the best environment for businesses to flourish, rather than doling out bundles of cash to large firms?

    So therefore we should be getting out of the way and reducing costs for all our other industries as well eh mildmike?

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  19. Sonny Blount (1,845 comments) says:

    Pete George (15,865) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 8:13 am
    @TheTweetOfGod
    You are made in My image. So it’s not that 10% of you came out wrong, it’s that I’m 10% gay.

    You could include that the gay population is about 2% with that rather funny quote Pete.

    No need to be part of perpetuating a lie.

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  20. Yvette (2,692 comments) says:

    Film Industry
    Apart from some direct payments – like, I understand, to have a promo about New Zealand proceed many overseas screenings of some Peter Jackson films – the subsidies are forgone taxes, and so money not taken in, rather than money paid out.
    And it was on the size of film budget that subsidies were based, so unless that has changed, Winston Peters, krapping on about numbers of jobs, is as usual not talking about the same thing.

    Go Winston! – the sooner the better

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  21. WineOh (553 comments) says:

    @Azeraph Yeah I found myself making the sound effects for the catapult even.

    Regarding the film subsidies, perhaps there are other industries that we could make a comparison to. Would we be prepared to spend $100M to bring Google headquarters to NZ, if that would bring $700M in wages and services spent by a major international industry to our local economy?

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  22. Longknives (4,464 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8196121/Whale-butchering-horrifies-onlookers

    “DOC protocol allowed iwi first use of the whale.”

    Why?????

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  23. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,811 comments) says:

    Snow all over the ground here in London, what the hell?

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  24. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    Actually where in the hobbit do you see a lot of our landscape? There’s a good ol boring bit of paddock, some classic over the mountain shots but what people don’t realize is movie goers downgrade the scenery when cgi elements are in the shot, in other words they don’t know if they’re looking at the real deal or it’s totally made up.

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  25. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    Longknives (2,071) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 10:03 am

    Well why didn’t they cut it up and take off to the dog roll guys?

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  26. Andrei (2,506 comments) says:

    Snow all over the ground here in London, what the hell?

    England has its winter in January OECD rank 22 kiwi.

    But fear not according to the BBC snow in the English winter will soon be a thing of the past

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  27. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Because Longknives…maori take precedent over everyone else in Nil Ziland. They are numero uno…whitey is just here to provide support.

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  28. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,631) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 10:09 am
    Snow all over the ground here in London, what the hell?

    Within a few years “children just aren’t going to know what snow is.” Snowfall will be “a very rare and exciting event.” Dr. David Viner, senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia, interviewed by the UK Independent, March 20, 2000.

    OECD, you nutter denialist. How much is the carbon industry paying you to tell these lies ? ;)

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  29. Paulus (2,503 comments) says:

    mikenmild

    It is not a subsidy in the way you protest – it is a tax concession.

    Don’t worry in 2014 you and your cohorts will be able to stuff the NZ film industry properly – but Shearer may not be so stupid as anticipated by your likes.

    Helen Kelly will lead the charge from the Rongotai seat she gets from Annette King when she becomes Wellington Mayor this year, although she may double dip, and slow things down.

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  30. Komata (1,111 comments) says:

    Paulus

    The New Zealand Labour Party??? Those utter paragons of honesty and transparency and suporters of all things socialsit and good?? It’s elected and senior members possibly Double dipping??? The sorts of things that only the wicked and avaracious Tories and capitalists would ever descend so low to do????? Oh say it isn’t so, say it isn’t so – that it would never, ever, ever happen to those shining knights of purity and truth.

    Not ‘arf!!

    Thanks for mentioning the possibility; the MSM will of course say ‘nowt.

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  31. RightNow (6,675 comments) says:

    Kea 10.34 am, thanks, I was missing my dose of griffanity

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  32. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

    Finally some spine from the Republicans. They won’t move unless the Senate actually comes forward with a budget which they are required to do every year on April 15, but haven’t done for 4 years! Can you believe that? They haven’t done a budget in 4 years which is against the law.

    Earlier today, House Republicans announced a path forward on the nation’s near-term budget challenges. The 1974 Congressional Budget Act requires passage of a budget resolution by April 15 each year. Under Senator Harry Reid’s leadership, the Senate has refused to pass a budget for 1,360 days. As the Administration and Congress work through opportunities to cut government spending, there will be no consideration of a long-term debt-ceiling increase unless both the House and the Senate pass a long-term budget plan. The plan also includes a bipartisan proposal to withhold Senators’ salaries if they fail to pass a budget.

    In response to the plan outlined by House Republican leaders, House Budget Committee Chairman Paul Ryan issued the following statement:

    “I stand in strong support of the agreement reached by my colleagues today. Our conference has united around a common-sense proposal. It rests on the recognition that our challenge is twofold: We have to pay our bills today, and we have to make sure we can pay our bills tomorrow. To achieve both ends, we must cut spending and budget responsibly.

    “Since taking the majority, House Republicans have done their job. We’ve passed a budget that promotes economic growth and gets spending under control. But for nearly four years, Senate Democrats have refused to pass a budget. Today’s agreement will hold the Senate accountable for this legal and moral failure. Just as April 15 is tax day for American families, it is budget day for Congress. Unless the Senate acts, there will be no consideration of a long-term debt-ceiling increase. I look forward to working with my colleagues—in both houses and in both parties—on this vital issue.”

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  33. Manolo (13,384 comments) says:

    Tolerance for all and sundry, as understood by the religion of peace, the vile Islam: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/01/16/egyptian-court-sentences-entire-family-to-15-years-for-converting-to/

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  34. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

    More shady goings-on from the Obama administration – removing a 1995 ban on using Federal money to fund anti-gun propaganda.

    The directives on gun violence President Obama signed Wednesday were meant to seem harmless. A closer look at the president’s first memorandum reveals it to be a sneaky assault on congressional authority in order to fund gun-control propaganda.

    Getting this done has been on the White House “to do” list for some time. In his 2013 budget submission, Mr. Obama deleted the prohibition that has been in effect since 1995 on the use of federal funds to advocate or promote gun control.

    Mr. Obama is trying to steamroll the Democratic and Republican majorities that kept the ban intact by labeling the advocacy as research. “While year after year, those who oppose even modest gun-safety measures have threatened to defund scientific or medical research into the causes of gun violence, I will direct the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) to go ahead and study the best ways to reduce it,” said Mr. Obama.

    Under the terms of the memo, CDC may “sponsor” another entity to conduct the research, which is a handy way of funneling taxpayer cash to sympathetic gun-control groups.

    Earlier this week, anti-gun activists, including New York City Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, spent a lot of time at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health in Baltimore discussing how the government-spending prohibition was hampering their plans.

    Daniel Webster, director of the Center for Gun Policy and Research at the school, backed the president’s plan. “I agree that the CDC should be free to fund high-quality research into the causes and solutions to gun violence, one of the leading causes of premature mortality in the U.S. that affects not only deaths and injuries, but mental health as well,” he told The Washington Times.

    Congress clamped down on the spending after President Clinton used the CDC and National Institutes of Health to create material advancing his theme of treating gun ownership as a public health issue, rather than a constitutional right. Millions in taxpayer funds were blown on junk science, such as $2.6 million used to determine if teenagers who are shot are more likely to have been drinking and carrying a gun. An additional $2 million went to figure out whether moving bars and liquor stores would prevent gun violence in communities.

    By calling gun violence a “public health crisis” on Wednesday, Mr. Obama echoed Mr. Clinton’s model. It’s a move that could cost lives, as shifting funding away from fighting disease creates severely misplaced priorities. In 2010, 780,213 Americans died from cardiovascular disease and 574,743 from cancer, compared with 11,078 firearm homicides.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jan/18/tax-dollars-for-gun-control/

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  35. Lance (2,453 comments) says:

    @Manolo
    If a Christian country did the same the shrill cry of condemnation would be deafening, the international boycotts, the books, the movies……

    Anybody would think hypocrisy runs deep in the West.

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  36. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

    Propaganda 101.

    Obama using children as tools in his press conference to read out their “letters” about guns and gun control.

    http://youtu.be/0NBt6ya04uM

    There’s another 3 videos as well

    http://hotair.com/archives/2013/01/17/its-come-to-this-white-house-releases-videos-of-young-kids-asking-obama-for-more-gun-control/

    Leaders have often exploited CHILDREN as emotional props.

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  37. Lance (2,453 comments) says:

    MnM thinks the movie industry is just like a factory.
    It’s not dynamic, contract based, transient and intense… of course not.

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  38. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

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  39. Manolo (13,384 comments) says:

    Another sign of the existence of the Illuminati and its taking over the world, according to trivialrev (aka hinamanu) http://www.cnbc.com/id/100390628

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  40. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Leaders have often exploited CHILDREN as emotional props.

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  41. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

    French homosexuals join in protest AGAINST gay marriage –

    NEW YORK, January 18 (C-FAM) Perhaps as many as a million people marched in Paris last Sunday and at French embassies around the world against proposed legislation that would legalize same-sex marriage in France.  One of the surprises in the French campaign for traditional marriage is that homosexuals have joined pro-family leaders and activists in the effort.

    “The rights of children trump the right to children,” was the catchphrase of protesters like Jean Marc, a French mayor who is also homosexual.

    Xavier Bongibault, an atheist homosexual, is a prominent spokesman against the bill. “In France, marriage is not designed to protect the love between two people. French marriage is specifically designed to provide children with families,” he said in an interview. “[T]he most serious study done so far . . . demonstrates quite clearly that a child has trouble being raised by gay parents.”

    Jean Marc, who has lived with a man for 20 years, insists, “The LGBT movement that speaks out in the media . . . They don’t speak for me. As a society we should not be encouraging this. It’s not biologically natural.”

    Outraged by the bill, 66-year old Jean-Dominique Bunel, a specialist in humanitarian law who has done relief work in war-torn areas, told Le Figaro he “was raised by two women” and that he  “suffered from the lack of a father, a daily presence, a character and a properly masculine example, some counterweight to the relationship of my mother to her lover. I was aware of it at a very early age. I lived that absence of a father, experienced it, as an amputation.”

    “As soon as I learned that the government was going to officialize marriage between two people of the same sex, I was thrown into disarray,” he explained. It would be “institutionalizing a situation that had scarred me considerably. In that there is an injustice that I can in no way allow.” If the women who raised him had been married, “I would have jumped into the fray and would have brought a complaint before the French state and before the European Court of Human Rights, for the violation of my right to a mom and a dad.”

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  42. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    The reason saving is so hard is that every time workers get a wage rise business raise their prices. Back to square one.

    Workers should be allowed to keep money and get ahead. They will actually spend and improve the economy. Economics 101.

    Business never educates itself about the consumer. Business is utterly unsophisticated, uneducated and base. While the middle class and self employed bleat on about beneficiaries they never really want to lift perceptions on income trends. They just want to dive straight into pockets and rape, rape, rape. there is no real scientific strategy by business to learn how to empower the consumer which will empower capitalism. Govt taxation is a lot to blame and the theory that taxation does not send companies offshore has to be the biggest industrial lie out.

    The Business Round Table is hugely to blame in perpetuating the myth workers need to be kept to subsistent levels and unskilled labour, and semi skilled labour need to be treated as disrespectfully as possible. This stratagem is to blame for weak market economies huge unemployment and total disenfranchisement of society across the spectrum.

    Also, too many academics running the country never helps anything.

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  43. eszett (2,337 comments) says:

    cha (1,884) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 12:00 pm

    Leaders have often exploited CHILDREN as emotional props.

    Yeah, cha, it’s only bad when Obama does it. Anything, literally anything that Obama does is bad!. Next post we will see that Obama is breathing too much air.

    And those videos are far far worse crime than say a lunatic storming into a school and killing children.
    Good to see that Fletch has his priorities sorted.

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  44. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    ‘Another sign of the existence of the Illuminati and its taking over the world, according to trivialrev (aka hinamanu) …’

    This may be why Goldman Sach’s CEO’s are awarding themselves $8B but still want to dip into public retirement funds (they have already raided police retirement funds)

    Your link is probably a bubble which will burst like so many others Manalo.

    btw…I am not trivialrev.

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  45. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Hows this for an economic message

    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151518860643296&set=vb.672363295&type=2&theater

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  46. wat dabney (3,672 comments) says:

    hinamanu,

    The reason saving is so hard is that every time workers get a wage rise business raise their prices. Back to square one.

    As workers become more productive – usually as a result of their employer’s capital expenditure rather than through their own efforts – so wages rise ahead of prices.

    So it all comes down to productivity.

    Workers should be allowed to keep money and get ahead. They will actually spend and improve the economy. Economics 101.

    Hopefully they would save rather than spend, and so improve the economy.

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  47. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    And those videos are far far worse crime than say a lunatic storming into a school and killing children.

    You heard it here first folks !!!

    eszett, thinks freedom of speech and not liking the black jesus is “far far worse” than butchering innocent kids.

    Yes, your a real lefty eszett, the genuine thing. :(

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  48. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    Here’s a quaint Q for you illustrious people.

    What’s the average plot of an action movie from the last 40 years?

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  49. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

    Azeraph, I’d say good guy gets imprisoned, or his wife gets raped and killed and his parents die and he goes out looking for revenge, does some training then goes and kills the bad guy, picking up a hot chick on the way to make love to.

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  50. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Confluence of the loons eszett.

    Challengers from the Sidelines: Understanding America’s Violent Far-Right

    Linda Thompson, the head of the Unorganized Militia of
    the United States details the consequence of this global coup: ;This is the coming of the New World Order. A one-world government, where, in order to put the new
    government in place, we must all be disarmed first. To do that, the government is
    deliberately creating schisms in our society, funding both the anti-abortion/pro-choice
    sides, the antigun/pro-gun issues ;trying to provoke a riot that will allow martial law to be implemented and all weapons seized, while;dissidents; are put safely away ;.

    The fear of the materialization of the NWO makes most militias not merely hostile
    towards the federal government but also hostile towards international organizations,
    whether non-profitable NGOs, international corporations, or political institutions of the
    international community, such as the UN.

    The militias ; anti-federalist sentiments are also rationalized by their perception of the corrupted and tyrannical nature of the federal government and its apparent tendency to violate individuals; civilian liberties and constitutional rights.

    [...]

    The third ideological pillar of the Identity movement is the endorsement of racial
    segregation and the notion of the superiority of the Aryan race. The origins of these
    perceptions are embedded in the Identity movement’s interpretation of the biblical
    story of Genesis. According to this version, Adam was not the first man, but the first
    white man. Before him, pre-Adamic people of color were created by God who
    possessed lesser spiritual attributes and qualities.

    Furthermore, the white people could be divided into two competing “seed-lines”: those who are descendants of Adam and Eve (Aryans), and all others (non-Aryans), who are descendants of Eve and the serpent.

    Based on this interpretation, the Identity thinkers concluded that race mixing,
    as in the case of Eve and the serpent, was the original sin that led to the expulsion of the
    white man from the Garden of Eden.

    The narrative identifies Cain, the first murderer, as the son of Satan and the first Jew.

    http://www.ctc.usma.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/ChallengersFromtheSidelines.pdf

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  51. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    RightNow (4,839) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 11:24 am
    Kea 10.34 am, thanks, I was missing my dose of griffanity

    My pleasure. Griff is not talking to me anymore. But KB still retains many of his “scientific” arguments for AGW. Here is his reasoned reply to a statement form a “climate scientist , followed by the response to a suggestion that the SUN may effect earths temperature. :)

    “squawk squawk goes the kea
    as he blurts out another made up post
    squawk squawk goes the kea
    as he posts on his favorite conspiwhacky
    squawk squawk goes the kea

    squawk
    because the fusion powered sun goes to beddybys?
    have you considered that your brain farts are the cause of the warming
    you have enough to melt your undies
    I have yet to see a solid one with actual content”

    Ahhhhhhhh those were the days ;)

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  52. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,745) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    Yes close enough and the hot chick never talks and is willing and gagging for it.

    From Star wars til now

    from Star wars 40 years back to the wizard of Oz

    There are two kid cgi movies that have come out in the last 4 years that might influence what under ten year olds perceive as the common human experience and since parents are sometimes lax in what they let there kids watch it might herald a change in a disturbing trend.

    Tangled

    Brave

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  53. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    Can you expand on that Azeraph?

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  54. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    Has anyone noticed this?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10860132

    Investigating a ring involving a former Prime Ministerial aid. Who happens to be a figure from Lady Thatcher’s years. The key to understanding the Saville issue is recognising he was a procurer, this is why so many circles up to the Royal Family have been closely involved. Why else would the Royal Family bother with a fool (who disguised himself as the court jester)? As hard to believe as it may seem.

    This is a very good article on this side of the story.

    http://21stcenturywire.com/2012/10/15/jimmy-savile-doorman-to-the-cesspit/

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  55. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

    Azeraph, because the protagonists are female?

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  56. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,746) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 1:55 pm

    Yes i suppose.

    In those movies it showed the young heroine actually discussing something with another woman that displayed human characteristics other than male evil traits that one can see being adopted by screen writers in this day and age, it also shows that males were not in control but came running to protect.

    Automatically when we see theses movies, we as males are not interested, “Chick flick” comes to mind but the average hero action movie doesn’t come close to any sort of reality and we allow our sons to view this.

    There is no mediation in conflict resolution nor is there any sense of realism, media does influence our young as it influenced us.

    The hero gets the girl but after he has his way with her he doesn’t know what to talk about as the movie stopped 2 hrs prior.

    I think Pixar either picked up on this or someone was concerned. You’re welcome to pick it to pieces as I’m sure you can see aspects that i haven’t that might sway either way but I’m not as articulate a debater.

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  57. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    Good article on the Boeing issue:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2013/01/17/the-boeing-debacle-seven-lessons-every-ceo-must-learn/

    Interesting development in Syria: Assad loses confidence in his own security detail and now based on a Russian naval ship for his protection. I keep telling you, Syria is bullshit, just like Libya and Egypt were. Those were simple replacements of former western satraps Brzezhinsky and others have determined had had their day. Syria however is about Iran. Take out Syria and then Iran has no significant allies amongst the ME govts. The west are deliberately isolating her. The fatal issue is however Iran has support amongst the ME people and going after her will trigger dangerous passions in all ME and Asian Muslim nations. That will happen. And Brzezhinsky and others clearly calculate that’s a risk worth taking. That’s what Syria is about.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2263110/President-Assad-family-living-warship-guarded-Russians-Syrian-coast.html

    nasska a few weeks ago we were discussing underground bases and you asked a question about why wouldn’t people have talked and/or noticed? All I can say is, there are some things in the world where security is ubiquitous and permanent. To take a benevolent example, as far as I know, only one or two credible people have ever talked about what happens at say, Groom Lake. Same with people who talk about the NSA. Etc etc. If there’s enough resource behind it, anything can be kept a secret. And it’s in plain sight too. The allegation is Denver International is a major underground connecting station and that’s used every day. Have you seen it? It’s very creepy. But here’s a good article on those.

    http://projectcamelot.org/underground_bases.html

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  58. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    Reid

    I’ve read the contents of the link & I’m stewing on it. The tunnel construction NSTMs as suggested would cover the greatest logistical problem…..that of what to do with the mine tailings which would stand out like dogs’ balls when using conventional methods.

    I’ll accept that the technology was developed to a point where patents could be applied for but is there any independent, concrete evidence that such a machine was ever built & demonstrated to work?

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  59. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Surely you wouldn’t call yourself “Project Camelot” if you lived in a fantasy world? :)

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  60. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    Surely you wouldn’t call yourself “Project Camelot” if you lived in a fantasy world?

    Have a look at some of those video interviews Johnboy. Start with a video of a guy called Pete Peterson. You’ll find him interesting I think.

    nasska the explanation for the tailings is they melt the rock and fuse it and the rock itself becomes the wall. I know, it’s not like they built the chunnel is it so how could that be? But that’s what they say. Who knows?

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  61. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    It’s all here Johnboy: The Secret Dulce underground base and the Grey Alien conspiracy.

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  62. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    “The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything”

    Albert Einstein.

    “Your heart must become a sea of Love. Your mind must become a river of Detachment”

    This is pretty zen.

    http://www.zengardner.com/truth-or-denial-in-the-age-of-information-overload/

    I’ve read many sources that all say 21/12/12 marked a beginning of a change of human consciousness. Apparently, humankind is at a crossroads of opportunity and danger. A change of age in fundamental terms that means we from then on eschew war and pointless competition for no benefit and stuff like that. It’s an interesting possibility. Of course it’s predicated on the concept of there being such a thing as a collective human spiritual consciousness. You have to recognise that exists first. But the possibilities are very interesting.

    Personally I shall miss the ability to smite all sorts of furry creatures and then eat them, the most. I imagine we’ll all have to eat tofu or something.

    Cheers for that cha, that’s a good link.

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  63. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    How would the tunnel machine/boring operators withstand the heat/radiation from the fusing operation Reid?

    What metal do the tunnel boring machine manufacturers use that can withstand the heat from fusing rock?

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  64. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Feel free to chip in here cha! :)

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  65. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    All I can say Johnboy is that there’s a been huge cover up of the 1934 Greada treaty with the greys from Orion, the extension of the treaty in 1944 and the 1954 Eisenhower meeting where a plan was made to build a worldwide network of deep underground military bases (D.U.M.B.S).

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  66. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    It’s the D.U.M.B.S that have me worried in this debate cha! :)

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  67. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    How would the tunnel machine/boring operators withstand the heat/radiation from the fusing operation Reid? What metal do the tunnel boring machine manufacturers use that can withstand the heat from fusing rock?

    I know Johnboy, I have no idea how it would work. However the fact I don’t know that has no bearing on whether or not it actually happens. That’s an evidential question so what’s the evidence? That’s what I ask.

    Another thing I do is that once upon a time I used to approach an issue like this with the question: how could it be true? And one day long ago I turned that question round in my mind and started asking myself when reading this stuff, why couldn’t it be true? Why couldn’t the world work like that? What makes it impossible?

    And this question opens the door to a world of material that makes a great deal of sense. For example if you look at what Tesla achieved it’s quite obvious he discovered something open science has never been allowed to tap into. All this time the knowledge of what he did has been sitting there but no-one in the open fields has ever plumbed it. Never. But it has such potential that if you know what it is and what it’s potential could be then you realise its quite conceivable the military’s on all sides have been using it for decades. And not telling anyone about it. Like the mysterious weapons they tested in Iraq which melted vehicles. It’s amazing how many signs there are out there when you know what you’re looking at. It really is. But you’ll never see it if you keep asking yourself that first question, and not the question that I ask.

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  68. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

    Anyone else notice the sunlight outside has a orange colour cast? Must be the smoke in the atmosphere from the fires in Australia.

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  69. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    It’s the refraction caused by the back flume from the TBM’s Fletch…..get up to speed man! :)

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  70. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    I notice over at Red Alert (it always pays to see what the enemy is talking about) that Fenton has blogged that she is in San Francisco.

    The question I have is this. How the hell can an ex junkie get a visa to enter the USA?

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  71. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Diplomatic passport?

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  72. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    I agree bb that’s not the usual procedure, for anyone who’s not an MP, is it.

    Let’s hope something nasty doesn’t happen at the airport or something. Like a certain mysterious someone at LAX involving Chippendale strippers who never gets talked about. That”d be a shame.

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  73. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    So no “Motivated reasoning” today gentlemen?

    This blog is quite tame though considering the content discussed sometimes.

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  74. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    Reid (12,805) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 4:17 pm

    Wait til you see some one who’s been waiting for the Anunaki for the last ? years lose the plot when they didn’t show up after 12/21/12.

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  75. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    You say some interesting things Azeraph. What do you think about the Anunnaki? Do you think they exist, or perhaps did at some points in history?

    For those who don’t know who the Anunnaki are, google Zacharia Sitchen.

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  76. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    The Anunnaki? Those of the Sumerian legend – Enki chasing Inanna through the seven gates into underworld, where she is naked on a hook being judged by the Anunnaki. The term is a pun on their names, Enki and the wisdom of the King and Inanna a lady of heaven (meaning of the name). Sometimes the name Inanna is that of the Kings daughter, sometimes it is that of his wife. Inanna is the name(it is also a title) of the woman who is naked by the apple tree of the King in another Sumerian story.

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  77. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Why just Zecharia Sitchin, why not Erich von Däniken and Immanuel Velikovsky as well – the other pseudo historians who wrote about ancient astronauts creating humanity?

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  78. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Our DNA gene research sort of kills that sort of pseudo-history, as there is no evidence of external genetic DNA in the 4-10, 000BCE period. It has done much the same for claims that Europeans were descendants of the lost tribes of Israel.

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  79. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    Our DNA gene research sort of kills that sort of pseudo-history

    SPC actually it does the precise opposite. Human DNA has genes that exist nowhere else in the animal kingdom. And the question is, where did they come from?

    If you choose to ignore the question, then that’s up to you. But it’s an interesting question, isn’t it.

    http://www.world-mysteries.com/sci_1.htm

    Scroll down about a quarter of the way to “Sensational Genome Discovery…”

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  80. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    The funny thing is is whether or not you believe in E.T? The best investigators are skeptics. My cousin was a Annunaki watcher yet he got drawn into the Maya choice dawn of 21/12/12 and convinced himself they would return on this date.

    Sometimes very intelligent people see dots where there is none to connect and they tend to pick dates within their lifetime and run on hope. Something is definitely out there but I posed a Q to him once “What if they never left?”

    I mean if you have attained a level of sophistication of powered flight that defies human understanding then it is safe to infer that they have a level of technology on all levels that is beyond our current imaginings. There is so much circumstantial evidence but no physical evidence. The sad thing about the digital age is that all digital media is suspect except the media from before caught on live feeds.

    He was so adamant they were the Annunaki when I tried to point out to him why just them.

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  81. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Good effort by DPF on the weightloss bizz. Just sayin.
    Has anybody asked if you;ve got cancer yet DPF to explain the weightloss? If not, it will happen as people wonder how you dealt to that shit. The key elements are weight training and rolled oats for breakfast to fuel your engine.
    Porridge Me Hearties.

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  82. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    It has done much the same for claims that Europeans were descendants of the lost tribes of Israel.

    http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-01/oup-nss011413.php?

    The results were consistent in depicting a Caucasus ancestry for all European Jews. The analysis showed a tight genetic relationship between European Jews and Caucasus populations and pinpointed the biogeographic origin of the European Jews to the south of Khazaria, 560 kilometers from Samandar –Khazaria’s capital city. Further analyses yielded a complex multi-ethnical ancestry with a slightly dominant Caucasus -Near Eastern, large South European and Middle Eastern ancestries, and a minor Eastern European contribution.

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0054360

    Some of them could possibly be traced back to at least ~4 kya, which indicates that some of the ancestors of today’s Slavs (Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Ukrainians and Russians) inhabited areas of Central and Eastern Europe much earlier than it was estimated on the basis of archaeological and historical data.

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  83. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    Like Michael Tsarion with his belief that ancient Irish ancestors were in fact Atlanteans yet i thought the oldest white culture in Britain was The Welsh?

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  84. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    cha, the inclusion of people into the Jewish community in Europe over the past 1000 or so years has nothing to do with descent form those of the Israeli tribes living in Canaan 2000 years earlier.

    PS The results of DNA research do not warrant the claim that all European Jews have Caucasus ancestry.

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  85. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    cha, the inclusion of people into the Jewish community in Europe over the past 1000 or so years has nothing to do with descent form those of the Israeli tribes living in Canaan 2000 years earlier.

    Really?

    I thought that was the upshot of the diaspora. But no?

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  86. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    An Irish lad goes to confession.
    The priest asks, “My boy, do you touch yourself at night?”
    “I do Father.”
    “And what do you think about when you touch yourself?”
    “I wish my nose would stop itching.”

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  87. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    nasska (5,507) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 8:00 pm

    Corny but it made me laugh.

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  88. Steve (North Shore) (4,499 comments) says:

    Hone Harawera was going to court to ban the word “blacklisted”.

    The judge said to him: “please state your case.”

    He said, “This racist word is demoralising for the maoris of this country!

    Why put people on a list just because they’re maori, why not put pakeha on a

    list also?”.

    The judge answered him: “They are on a list, they are called “Tax payers”!

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  89. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Reid, the diaspora term refers to Jews, not the earlier period tribes of Israel.

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  90. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    cha, the research was only for Jews in Eastern Europe.

    There was criticism of the new research when the pre-report was released earlier in the year.

    http://eurogenes.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/khazar-origins-of-european-jews-finally.html

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  91. Pete George (22,859 comments) says:

    National Party side by side with hell – https://twitter.com/davidfarrier/status/292534213691990016/photo/1

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  92. Steve (North Shore) (4,499 comments) says:

    Pete George is a Troll, sorry Pete.
    https://twitter.com/davidfarrier/status/292534213691990016/photo/1

    Notice the bait – david farrier, not DPF

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  93. chiz (1,119 comments) says:

    Reid:Human DNA has genes that exist nowhere else in the animal kingdom. And the question is, where did they come from?

    I read through the link and its clear the author has no real understanding of the subject, or of the newspaper articles he’s been reading. We have a handful of genes that only shared with a few close relatives, and are absent from invertebrates but there is no great mystery about this.

    In particular, his claim that we have 223 genes of unknown origin was based on a preliminary analysis of a rough draft of the human genome. When the final draft came out and was analysed in more depth the claim disappeared. The “2001″ date throughout the website might just have been a clue to you that it was all a little dated.

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  94. Pete George (22,859 comments) says:

    Thanks Steve, you were as funny as the link.

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  95. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Reid, so there are 223 human genes (of the over 30,000) we have that do not come via evolution, but by external input – the scientists say from probably from viruses. They do not say when.

    Sitchin says 300,000 years ago – I think to suggest some alien involvement in the later period evolution of homo erectus. He says they came from the Anunnaki and it was to make Adam and Eve, as if the 223 genes are definitive of their descendants.

    Like faith, science fiction needs a vacuum of knowledge in which to operate.

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  96. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

    The Anunnaki? Those of the Sumerian legend – Enki chasing Inanna through the seven gates into underworld, where she is naked on a hook being judged by the Anunnaki.

    Neal Stephenson uses a lot of this (Enki, the nan-shub etc) is his book Snowcrash, some very good cyber-fiction in the vein of William Gibson. I think Stephenson may have actually come up with the term Avatar as it is used these days.
    This was back in the days when Stephenson’s books weren’t (literally) as thick as a Bible.

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  97. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    SPC (1,996) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 9:11 pm

    The thing is is that Nibiru has been back a few times, it’s orbit is elliptical? and oblong so, it’s an ice planet then for much of it’s orbit and if these beings are oxygen breathers then how do they survive? surely there has been some record from chinese history purporting to an unknown celestial traveler 1600 bce?

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  98. chiz (1,119 comments) says:

    The word ‘avatar’ apparently dates back to 1985, according to the wikipedia.

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  99. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Azeraph, I don’t think those proposing a particular planet as the origin of extra-terrestrials on Earth were prepared to wait until we learnt which other planets might be habitable for hominoids. They just wanted to put in information that implied they had knowledge, that other people did not have/could not have so that we were supposed to wonder how they could possibly know. And those who were prepared to believe them (or want to believe that someone else could know and so they could learn from them) were of course a gullible market. It’s little different from receiving news from the other side from mediums. Some people just want to believe and their belief reassures them.

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  100. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

    While the 1986 video game Habitat applied the Sanskrit term avatar to online virtual bodies before Stephenson, the success of Snow Crash popularized the term to the extent that avatar is now the accepted term for this concept in computer games and on the World Wide Web.[14]

    From the Snowcrash Wiki entry.

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  101. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    SPC (1,997) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    Actually it’s an exciting era to live in as the sciences are starting to make headway into the great mysteries of genetics, Pluripotent stem cells, massive pipe assimilation of data, possible theories of neural transfer via download, bacterial archeology to Nassim talebs “The Black Swan”

    There is still those great mysteries that will always be there like Mitchelson skull.

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  102. nickb (3,659 comments) says:

    Good work on your weight loss goals if you are reading this DPF, great stuff. I am just getting back into weights after a long layoff and it is a good feeling. It will be for good this time!

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  103. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    There was one archeological site that fired up the anthropological world and there is a slight mystery there.

    http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text

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  104. chiz (1,119 comments) says:

    Not sure what the Mitchelson Skull is, but from a quick search I assume you mean skulls like these which, as the article points out, are in fact simple to explain.

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  105. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    chiz (879) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 10:24 pm

    The crystal skull that Arthur c clark made famous but it was commonly known as the Mitchel hedges skull not Mitchelson, my mistake. The current owner just needs to give it up to testing to see if it is a modern fake or not. I hope it is for real and what a hoot if it is.

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  106. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

    Is that the one in Indiana Jones and The Crystal Skull? ;)

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  107. Reid (15,954 comments) says:

    The Crystal Skull is here, including a link to an interview with the current custodian of it who shows it and discusses it in detail.

    http://projectcamelot.org/crystal_skull.html

    It’s real. The questions are, what is it really and where did it come from.

    Another interesting “conspiracy theory.” About a real object that exists.

    Crikey.

    It’s everywhere, isn’t it.

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  108. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    Fletch (3,750) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 10:59 pm

    I think so but it needs to go back in for more modern testing.

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  109. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    Reid (12,813) Says:
    January 19th, 2013 at 11:18 pm

    If the current owner wants to put things to rest then he would submit it for better testing and yay or nay i would still love to have it.

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  110. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    The crystal skull was posed as an Aztec artifact, but seems to have been part of a fraud. The idea that the fraud is now an Atlantis artifact is the conspiracy theory about the existent object.

    The story posted up earlier about gobekli-tepe is more real. And it has a part in overturning theories that settlement derived from cultivated crop farming – instead settlement may have preceded farming. Then this settlement farming spread.

    http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/06/gobekli-tepe/mann-text

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  111. Pete George (22,859 comments) says:

    Well done Black Caps! Restricted SA well, had their usual batting problems but hung in for a great win. Franklin tops in the end.

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  112. Manolo (13,384 comments) says:

    Wipe them out: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ALGERIA_KIDNAPPING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-01-19-09-51-18

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  113. Manolo (13,384 comments) says:

    Incessant adoration: http://washingtonexaminer.com/newsweek-obama-is-the-second-coming/article/2519111#.UPrj8Gf8kfO

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  114. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    Accidentally clicked on the Bain thread. I feel unclean.

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  115. noskire (832 comments) says:

    Something is terribly amiss today. No General Debate, and the BlackCaps have won a game. I might need to go back to bed.

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  116. Manolo (13,384 comments) says:

    An incredible assassination attempt: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2265002/Ahmed-Dogan-Heart-stopping-moment-man-pulls-gun-Bulgarian-opposition-leader-makes-speech-live-TV.html

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