General Debate 27 January 2013

January 27th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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120 Responses to “General Debate 27 January 2013”

  1. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    From the ‘Young’ Labour summer school - looks like there’s some snow on the mountains.

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  2. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    Elites at work: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/24/us-davos-obesity-idUSBRE90N0ER20130124

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  3. Duxton (657 comments) says:

    Labour’s publicity department still maintains its link with Satan: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10861667

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  4. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Rodney Hide takes a knife to journalism and GW.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10861688

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  5. Pete George (23,688 comments) says:

    Duxton, that’s bizarre, the Clark who banished knighthoods supposedly pushes the monarchist who awaits his own gong (after he exits parliament) to knight Holmes in a hurry.

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  6. Komata (1,204 comments) says:

    So, ‘Sir’ Paul Holmes “…Did a straight pitch for a knighthood,” a source said’.

    So much for the ‘champion of the little guy’ and the ‘Me? little ol’ me, aw shucks’ routine. Holmes STILL thinks he is important (the ‘Don’t you know who I am?’episode in Auckland a few years ago, comes to mind) and his very well-developed sense of entitlement hasn’t diminished in the slightest.

    At least we now know the facts – not a reward for ‘services to broadcasting or the community’ , but a shameless grab for self-agrandisement. Good spotting, Duxton.

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  7. thedavincimode (6,880 comments) says:

    Duxton

    You might also have noticed the sob story beatup that some gormless twit is indulging in that involves trying to contact everyone that Holmes pissed off (Dirty Denis & Koffi Anaan) so that they can say how dreadful it all is and all they want is to forgive him and make up. It’s taken them a while but at least one of them is beavering away to try and grab some moronic headlines.

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  8. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    If the story on Klark demanding the favour of a knighthood for her friend Paul Holmes is true, it underscores so well the perverted decrepit state of modern journalism.

    Holmes pioneered the invasion of the media by touchy feely liberals always sympathetic to the progressive causes championed by Marxists like Klark, and that is why the whole profession is as worthless as goat shit today.

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  9. hamnidaV2 (247 comments) says:

    Tories found to be less intelligent than liberals:

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201003/why-liberals-are-more-intelligent-conservatives

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  10. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    Heh, Gareth Morgan shoots off at the mouth again:

    “I’ve had a s…load of hate mail,” Morgan told the Star-Times on the phone from China, where he was attending a wedding. “A lot of it out of America, actually. Now I understand why those people shoot each other so much. God, they’re mad.”

    Personally I quite like the guy but he might like to consider hiring a PR consultant.

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  11. Paulus (2,672 comments) says:

    I have heard from relative in Australia – Dep Princ in big Canberra school that they have had no recognisable problems with Novopay for many years.
    Cannot understand why only in New Zealand?
    Ummm

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  12. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    Rodney Hide takes a knife to journalism and GW.

    Yeah. A butter knife. Digressive rambling rubbish.

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  13. hamnidaV2 (247 comments) says:

    My political predications for 2013:

    1. That the Tories will fall to an average of 39 – 42% in the major polls by the end of the year.

    2. That Labour will constantly poll over 36% and the Greens more than 12%.

    3. That the Dotcom Court case will be a major embarrassment for John Key and he will be caught lying again, but just survive as Tory Party leader and a MP.

    4. That an extreme Right wing party to replace ACT will emerge, then fail after its leader says something crazy.

    5. That we will hear very little from Jon Banks and ACT will continue to poll 0.0%.

    6. That the Hobbit will continue to receive negative reviews and win no major awards.

    7. That Bill English will announce he can no longer reach a surplus by 2014, despite lying about tax cuts, raising GST, increasing petrol tax, etc.

    8. That we will start to see power moves by Steven Joyce and Judith Collins, including more speeches, new policy framed as centrist, and an introduction of their families to the electorate.

    9. That a new report into David Bain will not find him innocent on the balance of probabilities and he will be awarded no compensation.

    10. That one Tory Party backbencher will vote against Government legislation forcing a hurried conversation with the Maori Party and Brendan Horan for votes.

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  14. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Tories found to be less intelligent than liberals:

    Conservatives Better Informed, Most Consistent, More Open-Minded, Says Pew

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/296762/conservatives-better-informed-most-consistent-more-open-minded-says-pew-charles-c-w-co#

    Liberals, take a long look in the mirror
    The evidence shows you’re more poorly informed and less tolerant.

    http://www.startribune.com/opinion/commentaries/150242335.html?refer=y

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  15. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    March for Life- great photo.

    You will not hear about this event from the NZ liberal mainstream media. (or the liberal blogs)

    http://stmarypellaia.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/march-for-life-photo.jpg

    (Posted to challenge the left’s tight control of information)

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  16. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    Holmes STILL thinks he is important

    Oh come on, give the guy a break. I was never a fan of his but surely a dying man can be a little self-indulgent? And in the context of New Zealand society in general, he is important.

    Have to say though that the morbid speculation in the press over his imminent demise strikes me as more than a little tasteless.

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  17. Fletch (6,502 comments) says:

    re: Holmes, that’s pretty bad.

    One would think that someone dying would be more focussed on his mortality, spending time with family and readying oneself to go. Instead he concentrates on the awards and trinkets of this world which will do him no good once he is dead.
    I guess though, if one does not believe in life after death….

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  18. eszett (2,432 comments) says:

    Holmes pioneered the invasion of the media by touchy feely liberals always sympathetic to the progressive causes championed by Marxists like Klark, and that is why the whole profession is as worthless as goat shit today.

    In defense of goat shit

    1 For gardening, goat manure can be a real asset. In their naturally dry, pelleted state, goat feces are easily handled, stored or directly applied on vegetables, trees, and flower gardens, as mulch, organic matter, fertilizer, or just to increase the water holding capacity of the soil; and goat feces do not normally attract flies or breed maggots. A daily raking or sweeping of the goat yard keeps the goats clean and free from parasites; and the garden will soon show its appreciation.

    http://goatkingdom.tripod.com/goat-manure

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  19. Azeraph (608 comments) says:

    You mean Sir should be Fraudster?

    I thought to get nomination one must be nominated without knowing it?

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  20. Viking2 (11,579 comments) says:

    hamnidaV2 (42) Says:
    January 27th, 2013 at 8:59 am

    Tories found to be less intelligent than liberals:

    http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201003/why-liberals-are-more-intelligent-conservatives
    —————————————————–
    First you would have to define a Tory, then a liberal and try to separate the two on many occasions.
    Then, you would have to factor in the practicle test. i.e. They may be apparently more intelligent but there are plenty of intelligent broken arsed bastards in this world and if it weren’t for the less intelligent (so called) tories they would still be struggling to feed themselves.
    See intelligence is one thing but the ability to turn that into practical and sensible life skills and survival is another.

    So that’s why you are a broken arsed socialist. You just have to swindle hard working others from their money.
    Socialists are all the same.

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  21. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    nasska –

    You’ve been spotted! Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rcgrg0rwn041mr8/krazykiwi.jpg

    What can I say. Cycling is thirsty work. So how’s your bonnet-mounted road lice weapon working out?

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  22. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    According to Kari Norgaard, a sociology and environmental studies professor at Oregon University, those who do not believe that global warming is real and is being caused by human existence are sick and need to be “treated.”

    Check out the photo of Kari :) (you have been warned people)

    http://www.examiner.com/article/oregon-professor-climate-change-skeptics-diseased-need-treatment

    This morning on the “science” show Robyn Williams equates skeptics to pedophiles, people pushing asbestos, and drug pushers

    http://joannenova.com.au/2012/11/breaking-skeptics-are-like-paedophiles-drug-robyn-williams-abc-time-to-protest/

    Death threats anyone? Austrian Prof: global warming deniers should be sentenced to death

    http://joannenova.com.au/2012/12/death-threats-anyone-austrian-prof-global-warming-deniers-should-be-sentenced-to-death/

    ‘Execute’ Skeptics! Shock Call To Action: ‘At what point do we jail or execute global warming deniers’ — ‘Shouldn’t we start punishing them now?’

    http://www.climatedepot.com/a/1096/Execute-Skeptics-Shock-Call-To-Action-At-what-point-do-we-jail-or-execute-global-warming-deniers–Shouldnt-we-start-punishing-them-now

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  23. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    Don’t you think that actually checking with the UK met service for the story not just the bullshit blogs and opinion pieces in the mail would be a sane course of action .

    Oh wait Rodney is a right wing nutter in denial .
    Who is doing the causes of free market capitalism massive future damage

    Any one on the right who fails to recognize the eminent threat of global warming is helping increase the future support of the green party.

    Nature is rapidly telling us the science is right

    No amount of denial will mitigate the effect of sandy or the drought in the USA
    The record wet in England
    or the record heat and flooding in Australia

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  24. duggledog (1,589 comments) says:

    Good article by Damien Grant about the Childrens’ Commissioner’s retarded thinking in the Herald today.

    My prediction for 2013: HamnidaV2 comes out as either Phil Ure or Martyn Bradbury, or at the very least someone who has failed in life and knows it’s not going to get any better than this i.e. baiting ‘Tories’

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  25. iMP (2,422 comments) says:

    Isn’t it time to GET REAL about Sir Paul Holmes?

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/01/27/the-holmes-inc-sympathy-distortion/

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  26. Viking2 (11,579 comments) says:

    In John Keys brave new world of apprentices his Mate, Stephen has just managed to ensure the need for more skilled trades people is about to be transferred to the USA and other places.

    Stephen has signed an agreement to shave 6% of the cost of insulation by allowing a German company the manufactures in the USA,(with their world lowest gas prices), to import and supply via Australia, insulation for the Christchurch rebuild.
    The same company sends the stuff here vai Australia so some jiggly poke going on there.

    Fletcher who make the product both here and in Aussie will now rationalize their production to Australia because it cheaper and close down the Kwiw plants.
    Conjecture I know but that’s what will happen.Fletcher shareholders don’t owe NZ anything when it comes to making a profit.

    So Whilst the Govt. may save 6% for the rebuild, NZ taxpayers will no doubt be ripped off one way or another, jobs will be lost once more and when the Germans decide our market ain’t worth it they will quit leaving us totally dependent on imports and of course we all kjnow what will happen to that cost once the dollar falls.
    That 6% saving will be absorbed by more people going on benefits through loss of their jobs.

    Now if the saving had been 30 or more % then maybe Stephen could justify his decisions.

    Lights out forever for NZ manufacturing. The Govt. doesn’t luv ya anymore than it does cow farmers.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8223088/Fletcher-Building-faces-rival-imports

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  27. stigie (1,341 comments) says:

    Hey Hamnida, have you got anything good the Nats will do in 2013 ?

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  28. Azeraph (608 comments) says:

    Kea (1,891) Says:
    January 27th, 2013 at 9:41 am

    I haven’t read any of it kea but just from the titles that’s just Bananas.

    Unless the skeptics movement are using hyper aggressive demagogue-ish online behavior to incite the masses I don’t see the problem with people who see otherwise, it would be wrong of us not to have a skeptic side, very wrong.

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  29. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    “Isn’t it time to GET REAL about Sir Paul Holmes?”

    No chance of getting real about anything when we’re so firmly in the grip of the Progressive movement.

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  30. Azeraph (608 comments) says:

    Redbaiter (1,859) Says:
    January 27th, 2013 at 9:52 am

    Edited = where is a link to his supposed fraud?

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  31. thedavincimode (6,880 comments) says:

    Brave call there V2. Yeah, bring back import tarriffs. Let’s price negative economies of scale into our economy and see if we can really fuck it up. We can start a whole new generation of businesses that wouldn’t survive without government and consumer subsidies. Bring back piggy Muldoon, a 66% tax rate and the six o’clock swill I say!

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  32. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    Viking2
    Hamstrings version one was forced to actually read the paper so knows better
    conservatives are the thickos
    Right wing conservonutter = IQ 90
    Still 90 means they dont as a rule eat them self’s they just have a problem with licking windows. :lol:

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  33. Keeping Stock (10,443 comments) says:

    @ Hamnida – who are these “Tories” to whom you refer?

    To·ry (tôr, tr)
    n. pl. To·ries
    1.
    a. A member of a British political party, founded in 1689, that was the opposition party to the Whigs and has been known as the Conservative Party since about 1832.
    b. A member of a Conservative Party, as in Canada.
    2. An American who, during the period of the American Revolution, favored the British side. Also called Loyalist.

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Tories

    Get it right, and people might actually debate with you. But as long as you toss around generalisations (like Neolib) and inaccuracies., it’s hard to take you seriously.

    Have a nice day though :D

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  34. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    I haven’t read any of it kea but just from the titles that’s just Bananas.

    Yes. It indicates to me that motivation behind it is not scientific. People rarely get this emotional about other scientific theories, do they ?

    I invite you to check out the first link and see what a real live alarmist looks like. ;)

    http://www.examiner.com/article/oregon-professor-climate-change-skeptics-diseased-need-treatment

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  35. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    No amount of denial will mitigate the effect of sandy or the drought in the USA
    The record wet in England
    or the record heat and flooding in Australia

    No but this might :)

    Deadly winter weather strikes India
    Dense fog and bitterly cold weather have disrupted life across northern India, killing scores of homeless people….
    The temperature in New Delhi struggled to reach a high of 9.8 Celsius on Wednesday, making it the coldest day here since 1969. Overnight the temperature fell to just 4.4 Celsius, which is cold enough for a touch of ground frost.

    Frozen continent! Europe’s rivers, lakes and even seas are iced over as bitter Siberian cold leads to temperatures of almost -40C

    You would be forgiven for thinking these stunning vistas lay deep in the heart of Antarctica.

    But they are, in fact, what has become of the European landscape as temperatures plummet to nearly -40C – the coldest snap in decades.

    Rivers, lakes, beaches and even seas have been iced over by a Siberian freeze, creating some incredible sights, but also more tales of tragedy.

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2100136/Europe-weather-Rivers-lakes-seas-iced-bitter-Siberian-cold-leads-temperatures-40C.html#ixzz2J7Okq6s8
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

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  36. wat dabney (3,814 comments) says:

    Nature is rapidly telling us the science is right

    Well, yes. The 16 years of completely flat temperatures is telling us that the science cited by sceptics is indeed correct.

    No amount of denial will mitigate the effect of sandy or the drought in the USA. The record wet in England or the record heat and flooding in Australia

    If I understand correctly, weather is not climate. Unless it coincides with AGW alarmism; in which case it is. Glad we got that cleared up.

    Apollo-era NASA scientists publish a report on global warming:

    http://www.therightclimatestuff.com/SummaryPrelimReport.html

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  37. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    The 16 years of completely flat temperatures

    “Wat” happened to statistically significant ?

    Trend calculator= http://www.skepticalscience.com/trend.php
    Try finding the flat temperatures for 16 years

    How about finding out the names of your just quoted scientists wat
    this will help http://www.skepticalscience.com/news.php?n=1836
    go on supply their names :lol:

    Critical thinking says when you would like to discover the reality around global warming you look at the scientific evidence
    Not reinforce your antisense bias in opinion pieces and blog posts.
    go to DPFs recent post
    Test your science literacy
    January 23rd, 2013 at 2:00 pm by David Farrar

    Try it wat you are not a conservonutter you can think for your self.

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  38. Viking2 (11,579 comments) says:

    thedavincimode (4,359) Says:
    January 27th, 2013 at 9:59 am

    Brave call there V2. Yeah, bring back import tarriffs. Let’s price negative economies of scale into our economy and see if we can really fuck it up. We can start a whole new generation of businesses that wouldn’t survive without government and consumer subsidies. Bring back piggy Muldoon, a 66% tax rate and the six o’clock swill I say!
    ———————-
    So, DVA you are completely happy to pay more tax for the jobs displaced for a 6% saving which will without any doubt dispate into the woodwork when the real work begins.
    I’m not, have never been in favour of tarrifs but I also don’t see the point in asking people who export to work harder and harder to subsidise either unemployment and other peoples assets fior that’s what this does.
    That product has to be paid for by those that export. Those that are struggling to compete in the export market which is currnetly falling over becuase of the high exchange rate. That high exchange is caused by the shortage of NZ dollars because our exporters just cannot earn sufficient to pay for those that spend. While it is exacerbated by manoey printing in other countries our issue for the last 30 years has beeen more being spent than being earned. Its not a difficult thing to understand but in Nz we have an I’ll be ok complex which actually translates to I don’t have to bother about the countries standard of living. There are no rules about how much I spend and I don’t have to earn that money before I do Iwill just get froma dealer who doesn’t give a shit about the problem either. We don’t have it on our own, most of the countries in the wrold operate the same way.
    Have no issue at all about making Fletchers more competitive either, just think we should give more thought to how we acheive that. A six % saving on a few hundred dollars is nothing and I find it interesting that when you look at house building costs it goes a bit like this.
    Concrete or floor about $5-7k, bricks about 5-7K, Roof about 5k-7k, flooring about 5k-7k wallboards and painting about 5k-7k Windows 5-7k, Council fee’s section & consents 50-70K, Kitchens 5-10k, bathrooms 7-10k, window treatments 10-15K.

    Where is the biggest saving to be had? Where can we actually make a difference? Where is the big money?

    Perhaps Stephen would have been better outsourcing to the Phillipines or China the resource consent process!
    Or with their ability to build get the Chinese to build our houses.
    30 story hotels in 6 days. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E76uJi744Do or
    30 stories in15 days. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwvmru5JmXk

    Clearly their is a conflict between jobs in manufacturing and inporting. Now some stuff it makes no sense to build here but where we have capable plants why should we not use them?
    If we continue down this track their will be no jobs for young people or old and we will become a country of low value tourism and cows. Is that what we want?
    And I wouldn’t hold my breath for the longterm survival of NZ’s cow industry. Other countries are catching up fast and we are but a few drops in the world milk market albeit the biggest net exporter of diary. Thanks to Van der Heyden and diary politics we stopped the innovation in uses of diary products quite soemtime back and concentrated on milk powder a commodity market. Watch out when the Chinese decide to export milk powder in competition to Fonterra.
    It will happen despite their huge ptoential market. Some will decide that its more lucrative to export than to sell locally just as fonterra have and do.
    That’s why innovation and looking after our own is so important to the future. Kiwi’s know this. Politicans never undestand it.
    Oh and by the way if. WWF, dole payments, student loans and DPB etc aren’t consumer subsidies by another name what is. Oh and don’t forget that tax that gets avoided by those companies that a kiwi company has to pay!

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  39. Reid (16,638 comments) says:

    Most downloaded Top Gear episode in the UK – three supercars:

    http://www.streetfire.net/video/top-gear-season-18-episode-1_part-1_2367806.htm

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  40. Viking2 (11,579 comments) says:

    Perhaps Stephen and Gerry Bumblebee should join you in watching this Wat

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  41. RF (1,454 comments) says:

    I see ham bone the hobbit hater is still taking up its crusade against the right. Keep trying and you might just hit the 100 mark for thumbs down. You sorry sack of S***.

    Hope you are stocking up with tissues for your leaders mumble speech today.

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  42. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    I just built a beach bach to a reasonable level of comfort
    granite bench tops polished floors modern lighting and appliances
    Total cost was about $1000 per square meter.
    Of that around $200 per meter was council bullshit driven needless spending
    Drain layers Electricians and plumbers that insist on charging 300% markup on materials
    And know the costumer can not use a alternative because their industry has captured the building code process
    Building costs to counter a imaginary problem with leaking buildings that ignores the reason the buildings leaked in the first place.
    Building to earthquake standards that are appropriate for the alpine fault regions not the far north.

    Along with the council insistence on restrictive zoning that include such pointless rubbish as no separate garage on half an acre FFS I had to prove that black stained ply cladding was not reflective.

    Madness propagated by bureaucrats with no interest in the costs they add.

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  43. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    “Of that around $200 per meter was council bullshit driven needless spending”

    What an outrageous hypocrite..!!

    http://www.trc.govt.nz/climate-change/

    Planning for and managing adverse effects on the environment arising from climate change, particularly associated with rising sea levels and more variable extreme weather patterns.

    Just one example of the doctrinal environmental bullshit that every dumbarsed NZ council is buying into and that is needlessly costing ratepayers millions.

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  44. bc (1,377 comments) says:

    What is up with the army?

    By lobbing grenades and shooting live ammunition they create huge fires in Canterbury and Waiouru.
    The Canterbury fire in particular put people and their houses at risk. Not to mention that firefighters of course had to put the thing out.
    Furthermore, the army (ie TAXPAYER) has to pay a $200,000 bill to the council.
    Meanwhile another fire is created by the army in Waiouru that covered 350ha. No doubt there will be another bill the taxpayer will have to pay for that one.

    What does the army do? Says sorry to the Canterbury residents for the “disruption and the angst” (a bit of an understatement there but never mind) and then carries on in Waiouru.

    How arrogant, not to mention reckless and just plain stupid, is that!

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  45. thedavincimode (6,880 comments) says:

    V2

    You have simply advocating subsidisation of a locally manufactured good that is not price-competitive globally. The capital invested in that non-competitive endeavour is better invested in making something that we are internationally competitive at producing and employing those people in other competitive industries. That is what has been happening since the Douglas days of the early 80s. You see a distinction, but in reality, there is no distinction underlying what you advocate, and imposing tarrifs (which, in any event, we are constrained in imposing now due to trade agreements). But you advocate a preference in favour of domestic suppliers that aren’t globally cost competitive – same as was advocated for the wagons for Herr Dokter’s trainset (you’re not with the EPMU are you by any chance?)

    The dollar has always been influenced by supply and demand because of exports – noticeably when the big seasonal milk cheques were repatriated in the olden days. It stands to reason that over time as exports grow and constraints remain on the money supply, it will continue to strengthen. But that is not what is sending it through the rooof at the moment. It is the fact that we’re significantly less fucked than others, and that the Kenyan is printing money like there is no tomorrow. Until the US and the Eurozone recover, we will continue to struggle. We are not in control of that.

    That is why it is even more important to make our domestic economy as efficient as possible and eliminate government waste, barriers to business and do the things that we are internationally competitive at (eg agriculture). This message has been consistently articulated by Key and English for the last four years and if you weren’t so consumed with hating Key for a softcock, and hating bludgers your “murris” and their “taniwha”, you might have noticed. In summary, what you advocate is long term counter-productive.

    None of the points you make about building costs or your uninformed view of the global dairy market alter the underlying principal in terms of what we need to do. As for DPB and Council charges on subdivisions etc, do you not read the papers? It is clear that a hard rain gunna fall on unemployed who won’t relocate for work and to Christchurch in particular, and on Councils that aren’t in sync with government over housing. WWF and student loans are a cost of staying in Government. One thing that you might have noticed is that when you give money away, as Klerk did in the two biggest and most blatant election bribes in living memory, people get used to it, expect it and then want more. Key no doubt figures that dumping those bribes for the middle ground that voted Klerk in for its last term in 2005 would soon see a change in Government. That’s something that you and others consistently refuse to acknowledge whilst you wail away hating Key, your bludgers and your murris. You actually need to get real, get on with it and stop bleating.

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  46. PhilP (163 comments) says:

    Hamfister, your “Crystal Balls” are even more clouded today than usual.

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  47. Reid (16,638 comments) says:

    Tories found to be less intelligent than liberals:

    Hamnida how come tories wear expensive suits to work whereas liberals wear sandals and cardies?

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  48. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    “This message has been consistently articulated by Key and English for the last four years ”

    Talked the talk but have not walked the walk. Three major oil explorers prepared to invest hundreds of millions have departed these shores in the last year because the Key government completely failed to protect them from the predations of the left.

    Key can’t actually articulate much at all. He’s just a boy with a bucket list.

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  49. Colville (2,300 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8228754/Terry-Serepisos-in-race-day-brawl

    “I got kicked in the head by five guys. It was pretty bad, pretty horrendous.”

    Yeah right.

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  50. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    Weddy
    If you honestly think that I would like to pay the future costs of idiots that build expansive houses on eroding cliff tops, beaches and low lying coastal land you can think again.
    They will be the first to scream for a bail out when a big storm and rising sea levels wipe out their Land.
    Ask the yanks in New York about the effect of higher sea level .
    They keep up with its not a problem we dont need to spend the money on flood proofing the subway system
    Despite studies that showed the effect of rising sea levels
    Now they have to both fix the system and do the flood protection work.

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  51. Viking2 (11,579 comments) says:

    thedavincimode (4,362) Says:
    January 27th, 2013 at 11:31 am

    V2

    You have simply advocating subsidisation of a locally manufactured good that is not price-competitive globally.
    —————-
    What tripe.
    Nowhere have I advocated such. 6% saving represents nothing in the scheme of things nothing at all when offset against it effects locally. See id you stopped sucking Keys cock and weighed up a proper cause and effect balance sheet you might just begin to get the balance right. But you don’t feel repsonsible for operating in that manner, just like all the gen Y’s it all about you and not about the team.i.e. NZ citiczens.

    I have watched industries that have been reorganised and attacked by managers on this basis and in the end the consumer is markedly worse off because someone somewhere in the world has the power to dump.

    Those same people avoid the taxes that are required to prop up your forms of welfare that Key will never change despite his blather, he doesn’t like being unpopular and survives on adrenaline. He is a trader without any longterm committment to anything including being a politican, which is just a step in the road to whatever his goal is oversea’s.
    He doesn’t know his NZ history., He doesn’t even care about us longterm residents (and my familes have been here longer than most Maori roughcaste families.) He will fuck off again as soon as he loses’s which he will and you cannot point to anything he has done in 5 years that’s made NZ a better place. He is in fact ,a middle of the road manager devoid of inspiring principles and aspirations for NZ.
    I met a 96 year old lady the otherday who is more inspiring than Key.

    Ok so he’s nice guy but a flake and very very light weight. Much like our local Nat. MP

    As for fonterra, time will tell but tell me when they marketed a new exciting world leading product that noone else can copy but has world market high value appeal. All they do now is past performance. They have ditched ther R&D of any note in the efforts for rewarding production just as they ditched their efforts at FMCG.
    You watch farmers go now they can get rid of their shares. Been happening and will happen more.

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  52. TheContrarian (1,091 comments) says:

    @Redbaiter (re: March for Life)

    “You will not hear about this event from the NZ liberal mainstream media. (or the liberal blogs)”

    Because it isn’t particularly relevant to NZ.

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  53. hamnidaV2 (247 comments) says:

    Reid – I would have to agree with you. I see a lot of Tories wearing some pretty nice suits. That said, their shirt and tie combinations often leave a lot to be desired.

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  54. Viking2 (11,579 comments) says:

    None of the points you make about building costs or your uninformed view of the global dairy market alter the underlying principal in terms of what we need to do. As for DPB and Council charges on subdivisions etc, do you not read the papers? It is clear that a hard rain gunna fall on unemployed who won’t relocate for work and to Christchurch in particular, and on Councils that aren’t in sync with government over housing. WWF and student loans are a cost of staying in Government.

    ——————-
    It ain’t not ever gunna happen. Hasn’t ever and ain’t ever cause some of those belong to families that vote. Votes that count. Hawkes Bay and Blenheim have had this issue for years and despite all the noise its still there. Most of those that move have fucked off to Aussie.

    One thing that you might have noticed is that when you give money away, as Klerk did in the two biggest and most blatant election bribes in living memory, people get used to it, expect it and then want more. Key no doubt figures that dumping those bribes for the middle ground that voted Klerk in for its last term in 2005 would soon see a change in Government. That’s something that you and others consistently refuse to acknowledge whilst you wail away hating Key, your bludgers and your murris. You actually need to get real, get on with it and stop bleating.
    —————————–
    Key had the chance to deal with that 5 years ago, promised to indeed but lacked the nuts to do so as he cuddled up to the racists to avoid having to go along with Act. Showed a complete lack of faith and went against the things he said. (que, Not to be trusted in future. A fact that proved to be the case with the Auckland legislation and smacking legislation etc.).

    As for getting on with it, I do everyday, but it still pisses me that we have such appalling bad leadership.

    Perhaps you could read this series.

    Opinion: ANZ NZ’s economics team look at key themes for 2013;
    Here’s theme three – sovereign risk, why it matters for NZ

    Countries continue to rack up huge debts. Here’s how it affects New Zealand.
    http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/62826/opinion-anz-nzs-economics-team-look-key-themes-2013-heres-theme-one-circle-distrust
    Over the next four business days we are continuing the detailed review by ANZ NZ’s economics team of six key themes for 2013. , the second one is here »http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/62834/opinion-anz-nzs-economics-team-look-key-themes-2013-heres-theme-2-transitioning-differ

    http://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/62846/opinion-anz-nzs-economics-team-look-key-themes-2013-heres-theme-three-sovereign-risk

    With 3 more to come.

    When I listened to Bagrie a few weeks ago I agreed with most of his summation.
    The catalyst that will sink France and thence Europe is Oil.

    So many countries have found oil with fracking that the world is now awash with future prospects that are cheaper than many others including some of ours. Many like the USA for example have the ability to become self sufficient in a very short time, the USA 2016. China, unusually for herself, is joining the hunt and will undoubtably be successful and almost certainly at a lessor cost than anyone else. The Russian’s are about to pipe their oil to Japan and China because they doubt Europe’s ability to pay for their supplies and in their own words don’t owe Europe anything and indeed are antagonistic to them. (all this I have posted recently)
    As this happens those countries that have had a bountiful supply of money via oil are going the crash and burn. Many have wasted that money and are in hook. They will crash and burn. The Arabs will turn on themselves even more and a couple of the more modern and friendly with team up with the west. Turkey being one. Iran will change its leaders. Its inevitable.

    France will pay for being the banker to the Arabs and it will be drawn into a war like it never has before. Started in fact. France will crash and take Italy and eventually others.

    Europe will be of little use to NZ for a longtime. Britain will quit when they decide that they don’t want to go with them.
    At that point they will come back this side of the world just like the Yanks looking for comfort. Lookout NZ.

    Perhaps its you DAV that needs to read the newspapers. Just not the local ones that are opinion rather than fact.

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  55. noskire (842 comments) says:

    An interesting view on TradeMe during the Fairfax tenure from Mike O’Donnell.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/8197322/How-Trade-Me-grew-up-in-the-Fairfax-years

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  56. Tauhei Notts (1,749 comments) says:

    Winston Peters has attacted many disparaging comments on this site, and yes, I agree; he is a gentleman whose truthfulness I doubt a bit.
    But for all that; he has number twelve in race one at Ellerslie this afternoon and it looks like a good thing.

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  57. Viking2 (11,579 comments) says:

    Here is this (weeks) years joke.

    National has become more right wing – Greens

    Sunday, 27, Jan, 2013 10:04AM

    The Greens are launching a new campaign today aimed at New Zealanders disillusioned with the Government’s direction.

    Co-leader Metiria Turei believes National has become more right wing in the past 12 months.

    She says it’s become more toxic to the environment, and less compassionate about the plight of children in poverty.

    Ms Turei says the campaign aims to prevent National pushing through controversial policies before the next election.

    Metiria Turei says thousands of New Zealanders don’t necessarily want to join a party, but they have a vision of New Zealand where it’s fairer and more sustainable and they want to be engaged in political action to make that happen.

    She says they canât wait until 2014 to stop bad change occurring.

    http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/news/news-story.cfm?content_id=848166

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  58. Viking2 (11,579 comments) says:

    Timidity Continued.

    WOF changes revealed

    Sunday, 27, Jan, 2013 11:56AM

    Changes to the country’s Warrant of Fitness system have been revealed, with the Government promising they’ll save time and money.

    The changes will see annual inspections for cars registered after 2000 and vehicles older than three years.

    Vehicles that were registered before January 2000 will continue to be required to have six-monthly inspections.

    The Government’s convinced safety will be maintained through extra police enforcement.

    Associate Transport Minister Simon Bridges says these savings will have a flown-on benefit for the wider economy.

    http://www.telstraclear.co.nz/news/news-story.cfm?content_id=848168

    Continued pandering to the Motor repair industry.

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  59. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    “You will not hear about this event from the NZ liberal mainstream media. (or the liberal blogs)”

    Because it isn’t particularly relevant to NZ.

    Apparently this march, a fraction of the size is “relevant to NZ” : Thousands march for gun control in Washington

    Yeah right

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  60. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    What an outrageous hypocrite..!!

    He sure is.

    If people really knew what they were contributing to the AGW industry, public opinion would soon change. But what happens is the tax is hidden, so people don’t know what green fantasies are costing them.

    I would like to set up a wind farm in a town, then charge the residents a rate that makes the operation commercially viable. That would be one way to expose the myths.

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  61. Viking2 (11,579 comments) says:

    Timidity Continued.

    WOF changes revealed

    Sunday, 27, Jan, 2013 11:56AM

    Changes to the country’s Warrant of Fitness system have been revealed, with the Government promising they’ll save time and money.

    Oh dear. Timidity from the man who is now incharge of minning and Oil.
    The Greens will love him to death and we will get in the way of progress.
    young Hughes will slaughter him.

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  62. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    “Apparently this march, a fraction of the size is “relevant to NZ””

    Of course.

    But the march in support of the second amendment got stuff all coverage.

    Challenge- find a Herald/ Dominion reporter who isn’t pro-abortion or anti-gun.

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  63. TheContrarian (1,091 comments) says:

    @Redbaiter and Andrei

    http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/marchers-in-washington-protest-40-yrs-legal-abortion-5326965

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  64. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    Well done, pity its just the usual pro-abortion progressive rubbish, or you may have scored a point.

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  65. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, Anti abortion activists want to impose their views on others. If they do not believe in abortion, then all good, they do not have to have abortions.

    Others should be free to choose for themselves and the state can mind its own business. It is their body and their baby. End of story.

    However, I agree with your point regarding coverage. No informed person relies on NZ’s msm anyway. It is for people like mikenmild and other lumpen headed socialists.

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  66. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    How typical that you would hold to the shallow liberal mindset that puts no value on human life and the rights of the unborn.

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  67. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, what gives you the right to use the state to dictate to others what they can do with their bodies ?

    How about you cut the crap and say it like it is. You want to the state to force people to comply with others religious beliefs, because that is what informs the anti abortion crowd.

    It is none of central governments business. It is hard to imagine a bigger incursion into peoples lives and liberty, yet strangely you support it like a little commie lap dog. Get your head sorted.

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  68. mikenmild (11,795 comments) says:

    I reckon it’s time to make use of those voting buttons again to see whether Redbaiter or Kea has made the craziest comment in the thread.
    Thumbs up Redbaiter (the returning favourite)
    Thumbs down for Kea (the brash challenger)

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  69. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    Gawd you’re fucking hopeless.

    Its nothing to do with the phony liberal concept of “womens bodies” and the “right to choose’.

    You sound as bad as any Hollywood loon.

    Cher for example. Or Madonna.

    Brainwashed bimbos.

    Its about human life and protecting those who cannot protect themselves.

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  70. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    Milky its no contest.

    Every time I confront the fake right on these kind of issues they loose, because its always you and your commie cronies who come out in support of Kea and Thedavaselinemode et al.

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  71. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    What is “phony” about owning your own body. You seem to think womens bodies are state property !

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  72. mikenmild (11,795 comments) says:

    Redbaiter’s comments are charmingly predictable (mainstream paleo-conservative), but strewn with repetitive invective imparting an entertaining subliminal message about his personal fascinations.
    Kea is much more random and less disciplined. Although astonishingly unlearned and probably incapable of rational analysis, his ability to find everyone else WRONG never fails to amuse me.

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  73. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Every time I confront the fake right on these kind of issues they loose, because its always you and your commie cronies who come out in support of Kea and Thedavaselinemode et al.

    That is basically an admission that your positions are decided by what you perceive as being the rightist stance, rather than what is good or what works.

    I go with the good ideas, not left or right. Even our resident sanctimonious lefties sometimes say things I agree with. I will not speak out against them just out of spite, as you seem to advocate Red.

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  74. Andrei (2,668 comments) says:

    What I love about the so called “pro choice” crowd about the only thing they want people to be able to choose for themselves is to kill a baby.

    When it comes to choosing to own a gun, smoke a cigarette, drive a V8 or eat a big mac they are remarkably anti-choice as a rule, they want to choose for you and they want to choose so you can’t do these things

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  75. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Kea is much more random and less disciplined. Although astonishingly unlearned and probably incapable of rational analysis, his ability to find everyone else WRONG never fails to amuse me.

    mikenmild, how about giving a few examples or actually engaging me on the points I raised. You seem pretty impressed with yourself, so how about a display of your brilliance. So far all you have come up with are ad hominem attacks, in between defending the most murderous and evil ideology of the modern era.

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  76. adaman (43 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/8223622/Super-city-plans-for-mortgagee-sales

    Hey hey, this is about our favourite person in the world, Penny Bright.

    Because she refuses to pay her rates, the council now has the ability to force a mortgagee sale on her home.

    Government (local or central) ability to take citizens property is a very dangerous power.

    Yeah I don’t like PB or her politics and yeah she’s in the wrong for not having paid her rates but the central govt power is something I think we should all fight against.

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  77. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    “I will not speak out against them just out of spite, as you seem to advocate Red.”

    Its nothing to do with spite.

    Its that I see the big picture while you are still a blinkered novice.

    Its you and your muddled misguided thoughts that have provided the left with the beach head they needed to succeed in their assault on and eventual control of our culture and our social and political condition.

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  78. thedavincimode (6,880 comments) says:

    Talked the talk but have not walked the walk. Three major oil explorers prepared to invest hundreds of millions have departed these shores in the last year

    Ya see ‘baitey, this is just another example of you being a whiney little bitch. Things don’t go 100% you’re way and you have a little pout and a tiz – like complaining to the headmaster.

    Just assume, to demonstrate the point, that Key invested the politcal capital in promoting mineral exploration with the predictable howls of protest. Then, having done that, he said fuck off to the oilers. Then again this week, he again invested political capital by reiterating mineral exploitation as a key objective, all the while intending to once again send the oilers off with a flea in their ears. It had nothing to do with failure to reach commercial or politically acceptable terms. Or maybe when they turned up, he arrived late pissed and said “howdy fuckfaces”. We’ll just assume all that for the moment shall we? Happy?

    Then look at what has actually been done to mention a few: UFB, Transmission Gully, Kapiti, Westmere motorway extension, Northland highway, benefit changes around job seeking and DPB, cutting and limiting expenditure, 90 day trial period, educational standards, student loan pass rate thresholds, health efficiency gains, ACC, national standards as the thin edge of the wedge in requiring educational accountability, securities reform, RMA reform with more on the way, a shit kicking for Councils on the way, sacked a deadbeat regional council, the seed capital fund for irrigation initiatives that will in excess of $1b to GDP. All initiatives that go straight to the structure of this economy and its long future and which would have seen us on relative easy street if Douglas had been allowed to keep going 30 years ago.

    But no, that’s not good enough because some sad-arsed loser from Tauranga who thinks he’s a hero for causing a traffic jam on a toll bridge reckons he hasn’t walked the talk. Pfft.

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  79. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Red, you clearly know a thing or to, I will grant you that. But there are things you don’t see and some major holes in your approach. Your dangerously close to sounding like a self absorbed lefty claiming their imagined moral high ground.

    But lets do one issue at a time. Allowing people to do what they want with their own bodies is not a “beach head” for the erosion of personal liberty. It is the opposite. You want it both ways. Tough. You can’t have it.

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  80. mikenmild (11,795 comments) says:

    If Kea came in with any actual arguments, then perhaps he would find someone to debate. But just repeating PRATTs over and over like ‘socialism = mass murder’ does not a debating position make.

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  81. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    Kea- there are two bodies involved and the defenceless one gets killed. And you are so infected with progressive hogwash you think this is an event that examples liberty?

    FFS.

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  82. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    mikenmild, ok lets debate “socialism = mass murder”. I say that, based on current events in socialist countries and their past history. It is historical fact. When they have total control, with no democratic way for the people to change the regime, that is what has happened in ALL CASES. So why would I not equate it with mass murder ?

    If you can not handle the reality of socialisms history, that is your problem. I am not saying that pretend socialists living in democratic capitalist societies (like yourself) advocate mass murder. But clearly when socialists have total control, that is what has historically happened.

    How would you feel about a Neo Nazi political group that said they “are not like that” ? They would be shouted down by any right minded person. Yet marxists socialists have done far far worse and we tolerate them. They are even proud of the fact.

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  83. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Redbaiter, no I am not “infected”. I think for myself. You need to start doing the same.

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  84. mikenmild (11,795 comments) says:

    I’ll take that point on. What Kea defines as ‘socialism’, I would probably define as liberal democracy – as practised in the most affluent and most peaceful countries today. Even if liberal democracy and totalitarian communism shared the same ideological roots, which is a pretty big ask, does the record of the totalitarian dictatorships really provide any debating ammunition against a community that very sensibly decides to socialise health and education services?

    The reality of course, is that almost any society is capable of producing and throwing to prominence an Attila, a Genghis Khan, a Napoleon, a Hitler or a Stalin.

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  85. thedavincimode (6,880 comments) says:

    … or a Klerk.

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  86. Fletch (6,502 comments) says:

    Interesting that many of the story links about the “gun control march” refer to thousands of people, whereas the actual number is probably more like, well, a thousand (according to the Washington Post report filed just an hour ago.

    A group of residents from Newtown, Conn., joined nearly 1,000 people taking part Saturday in a march on the Mall in support of gun-control measures, hopeful their presence will add momentum to legislative efforts to enact tougher laws.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/newtown-residents-among-those-at-dc-march-for-gun-control/2013/01/26/1813a3f6-67cb-11e2-85f5-a8a9228e55e7_story.html

    Contrast this with the 500,000 people in the Right To Life march.

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  87. Viking2 (11,579 comments) says:

    This just might remind us of some on KB.

    http://www.dailylife.com.au/dl-people/dl-entertainment/otter-dislikes-watermelon-but-cant-stop-eating-it-20130116-2csmg.html

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  88. Redbaiter (9,662 comments) says:

    Wow, this is really a memorable day. There’s the Thedavaselinemode (yes, twice “the”, isn’t it dopey?) actually attempting some kind of real argument.

    Forget that the second paragraph is unintelligible rubbish, and that the third merely lists a number of frittering around the edges type issues that don’t really change things much at all, as is witnessed by the fact that most NZers are still pretty much indifferent as to whether they’re governed by National or the Labour/ Greens. Hobson’s choice.

    A million NZers have left this country. They’re probably the smart hard working ones. Because what the fuck is there for them here? Except to be bled dry by a legion of lazy ignorant parasites and or racists?

    Key needs to fix the separatist issue. He won’t. He panders to the very politicians who are destroying this country’s economic and social base. Two governments will never make NZ a good place to do business.

    He needs to lead us away from socialism, or high taxing overpowering government, with rhetoric that resonates with the few voters left in NZ with a brain. He can’t do this because its a mission he does not believe in. If he believed in it, and he had half decent speaking skills he could sell it. But he doesn’t and he hasn’t.

    And surrounding himself with specialist media advisers that espouse progressivism as the only course on every issue doesn’t help either. He needs to stop listening to the likes of you (gay activists etc) and engage with real working producing family orientated NZers.

    FFS, tell him to read Reagan’s inaugural speech or something. The guy is clueless.

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  89. Fletch (6,502 comments) says:

    But lets do one issue at a time. Allowing people to do what they want with their own bodies is not a “beach head” for the erosion of personal liberty. It is the opposite. You want it both ways. Tough. You can’t have it.

    Kea, OK, but a baby is it’s own person with it’s own unique DNA that does not change through to adulthood, not part of the mother, although admittedly it is dependant on the mother. Still, a baby is a dependant on it’s mother (or both parents) until it is way older.

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  90. Scott Chris (6,177 comments) says:

    What is “phony” about owning your own body.

    If the woman owns her body, her unborn child, from that precedent owns his/her body.

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  91. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    so mikenmild, if you believe in liberal democracy then why do you not denounce socialism ? It is not what ” I call it” as you claim. They were socialists. They often followed Marx’s ideas. It was the United Soviet SOCIALIST Repubic, not something else.

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  92. Fletch (6,502 comments) says:

    To me, whether or not abortion is wrong does not even require to be religious. You can look at it purely scientifically or mathematically.

    1 – Draw a timeline
    2 – have another timeline diverge off the first line.
    3 – one timeline represents the history of a woman having sex, getting pregnant and giving birth.
    4 – the diverging timeline represents her having an abortion, the result being no child.

    The difference between the two resulting timelines – the point at which they diverge – is solely the human intervention of abortion and which results in their being no child which there otherwise would have been. That is the SOLE reason no child results.

    What is so difficult to understand about that? If that is not ending the life of the child – which is already growing and changing and will continue to do so until birth, then what is?

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  93. mikenmild (11,795 comments) says:

    Yes Kea, I denounce Stalin and all the communists He had denounced on his behalf. Are there any other historical figures that I must denounce? I always thought Savonarola was pretty weird, so I could denounce him – are there many others?

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  94. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    mikenmild, All those people were informed by one thing. Socialism. The thing you defend.

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  95. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    MM
    Why do you continue to try to debate with squawk?
    All you are doing is playing parrot chess#

    #Refering to having a pointless debate with somebody utterly ignorant of the subject matter, but standing on a dogmatic position that cannot be moved with any amount of education or logic, but who always proclaims victory.

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  96. mikenmild (11,795 comments) says:

    Griff
    Parrot chess can be fun. Kea doesn’t really know what socialism is, but he sure is against it. For the record, I think we could be a bit more socialist in some things in the country and a bit less in others. It’s not a zero-sum game.

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  97. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    The more exposure I have to the nutters of the conservative right on here the more respectful I am of moderate socialist views

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  98. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Kea doesn’t really know what socialism is

    mikenmild, Did Stalin know what socialism is ? How about Mao & Nicolae Ceaușescu ? How about the leaders of Vietnam & North Korea ? Do any of them know what you know ?

    You are trying to avoid confronting the history of socialism by turning the focus onto the ideology. I am talking about actual events , not intentions or ideals. My natural leaning is to the left, but the appalling treatment of people by socialists is what turns me away.

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  99. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    You can look at it purely scientifically or mathematically.

    You should ask Griff for a computer model. It will be just as valid as his AGW ideas, and for the same reasons. Rubbish in rubbish out.

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  100. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    I see sam Buchanan just added another data point in the theory of parrot chess.
    No longer is it a hypotheses. parrot chess is a valid theory backed by real world data.
    :lol:

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  101. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Funny that the Griff creature imagines he has some remnant of credibility left. He has shown himself to be a person who will simply block out (rip) any dissenting view that challenges his own ideas. One can imagine what happens if he comes upon material offering a different view on AGW.

    I flattered by his daily references to me and amused by his pitiful pleading for others not to engage in debate with me. Its a little obsessive, but you get that with pot heads.

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  102. nasska (11,823 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/u5ccfn691wv0vcl/statue.jpg

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  103. mikenmild (11,795 comments) says:

    Kea talks about examining an ideology, but tends to list random dictators and say that as they identified themselves as socialists, so everything connected with socialism is tainted with blood. Well, we could play that game with any ideology.
    The important thing to do is discuss ideas. If I say that the good things about our health and education system come from the socialised model used here, one way of NOT engaging with that proposition is to imply that socialised medicine or teaching is bad because some regimes that claimed to be socialists committed horrific crimes.

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  104. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    From the Telegraph –

    Democracy is on the brink of a sea change

    Obama looked to the discredited past; Cameron to an impossible future
    :::
    There were some quite surreal moments when Mr Obama seemed to be channelling Gordon Brown at his most self-congratulatory. Specifically rejecting the notion that America “must choose between caring for the generation that built this country and investing in the generation that will build its future” (that is, we can afford to support both the old and the young), he said: “For we… understand that our country cannot succeed when a shrinking few do very well and a growing many barely make it.”

    Ah, yes – remember that refrain: we will govern for the many, not the few? Which turned out to be a euphemism for high tax, high-spend economics, galloping entitlements and an epidemic of welfare dependency? Warning to America: it didn’t work out.
    :::
    The core message was pounded home relentlessly: American government is now in the redistribution and welfare-provision business, and this is not (contrary to appearances) at variance with the founding fathers’ conception of a nation that is inherently opposed to state interference and domination over the individual.

    This is the new credo of American nationhood: the government, not the community or the household, will be the moral arbiter of social virtue. The traditional suspicion of the overweening power of the state is now a thing of the past.

    Democracy is about electing a government that will be there to protect you from hardship, shelter you from the storm and absolve you from sin. Well, no, maybe not that last one – but the concept of the state as moral saviour is not so remote from this, is it?

    Barry’s relentless drive to wreck the lives of millions continues ….

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  105. mikenmild (11,795 comments) says:

    nasska
    I wonder who was the latest US president to get a statute.

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  106. mikenmild (11,795 comments) says:

    Now that I’m googling, it’s pretty hard to find a US president who doesn’t have a statue somewhere. I thought this one was particularly good, especially the other claim to fame of Hamilton, Ohio:
    http://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/24600

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  107. nasska (11,823 comments) says:

    The practice seems to have gone out of fashion ‘mikenmild’. The reverence we have for our former leaders has turned to custard too.

    I’ve got a dozen eggs put aside just in case Dear Leader ever graces Parliament grounds in bronze. :)

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  108. mikenmild (11,795 comments) says:

    I can’t see any PM in living memory being thus immortalised in Parliament grounds. Even Peter Fraser’s statue was placed outside.

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  109. Rex Widerstrom (5,354 comments) says:

    nasska says:

    I’ve got a dozen eggs put aside just in case Dear Leader ever graces Parliament grounds in bronze.

    I’d have imagined that nothing short of a conversion to Bhuddism and reincarnation as a 100kg pigeon would do, nasska. You must be mellowing in your old age :-)

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  110. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    mikenmild, I do not think “everything connected with socialism is tainted with blood”. That is not my position.

    However, ALL socialist states, where the socialists have total control, ARE tainted with blood. I believe in many socialist ideas and would like to see even more done in some areas. Democratic socialism, with real opposition parties and real freedom of speech, I have no problem with.

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  111. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    Oecd better life index rates the so called socialist nations of Scandinavia along with us “socialist” leaning anglophiles of New Zealand Aus and Canada as the best places to live,. For all its wealth the USA fails to impress in all except income.
    In particular the USA”s model of healthcare is a failure. 4x the cost for a lesser outcome.

    In the USA the political system is based on crony capitalism where the ultra rich are manipulating society to further their own profits at the cost of the future health of the entire society.

    The state of national health and welfare overrides the greed of a small minority. This is why even the most extreme free market party in new Zealand act still supported a degree of social spending.

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  112. nasska (11,823 comments) says:

    Priest: What’s that you’re doing Tommy?

    Tommy: Sticking crackers up frog’s arses Father.

    Priest: Rectum, Tommy

    Tommy: Blows ‘em to fucking pieces Father!

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  113. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Many on the left, when arguing the superiority of socialism, often point to the Scandinavian countries of Finland, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark as examples of the perfect socialist utopia. What the left either fails to consider or chooses to ignore are the suicide rates and death rates due to alcoholism. The sad fact is that in virtually all European socialist countries, the rates of suicide and alcoholism are far greater than the world average.
    Sad facts indeed, these statistics are an indication of the level of misery within a society. In the old Soviet Union, the death rate due to alcoholism was alarmingly high — estimated as the highest in the world during the Cold War.

    Read more: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/11/a_toast_to_socialist_countries.html#ixzz2J9pt6TWL
    Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

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  114. mikenmild (11,795 comments) says:

    Bad luck Griff.
    Kea’s now explained that only some socialist societies are bad – the ones where bad things have happened, apparently.

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  115. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    mikenmild, do you know how they pay for all that “socialism” in Scandinavian countries ? It is by industry and free market capitalism. A bit more research may reveal things are not as good as many lefties make out. Many of those countries are in decline socially and economically. But I have no problem if they get to vote on the type of system they have. Voting also helps to ensure that those in power actually do act in the interest of the people. We just need to be mindful of what socialists always do when they can do what they like.

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  116. Fletch (6,502 comments) says:

    Unconfirmed reports of the Iranian Fordow nuclear facility being bombed and 240 trapped underground?
    Needs to be confirmed by Western media.

    http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/sabotage-key-iranian-nuclear-facility-hit/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

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  117. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Fletch, It would not surprise me. Obama has big war plans this year. I fully expected Iran would be a victim. Although they have not attacked anyone for about 300 years, and their last war was against an American backed Saddam. I don’t care anymore what happens to America, as they voted the war monger Obama back in. But I do care about his victims all over the world.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-minister-welcomes-report-of-huge-blast-at-iran-nuclear-plant/

    Israel’s Home Front Defense Minister Avi Dichter on Sunday welcomed a report that Iran’s Fordo nuclear facility had been rocked by a huge explosion.

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  118. Griff (8,203 comments) says:

    Dittohead

    anyone who gets their information from non-expert sources or those who believe the agenda-less have an agenda in political discourse, be it climate change or gun control or health care. Much like creationists, the average dittohead will be unable to be reasoned with or engage in rational thought.

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dittohead

    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that ‘my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

    Isaac Asimov

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  119. Manolo (14,086 comments) says:

    A career change: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/27/feds-suspended-conn-priest-sold-meth-and-bought-sex-shop-to-launder-profits/?test=latestnews

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  120. Viking2 (11,579 comments) says:

    Hackers sympathetic to the late computer prodigy Aaron Swartz claim to have infiltrated the website of the US Justice Department’s Sentencing Commission, and said they planned to release government data.

    The Sentencing Commission site, ussc.gov, was shut down early on Saturday.

    Identifying themselves as Anonymous, a loosely organised group of unknown provenance associated with a range of recent online actions, the hackers voiced outrage over Swartz’ suicide on January 11.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5NTnPNNMtpw

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/8231505/Anonymous-launch-Swartz-revenge-hack

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