General Debate 7 January 2013

January 7th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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168 Responses to “General Debate 7 January 2013”

  1. skyblue (193 comments) says:

    Back to work today. How about the rest of you.
    2013 will be a great year for business.

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  2. meh (164 comments) says:

    Off until the 14th :) downside of a long break is work will be manic for the rest of January and probably all of February…. good thing I enjoy my job.

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  3. bhudson (4,720 comments) says:

    With the good weather only arriving here in Wellington a few days ago, I have taken an extra week at short notice. The joys of fence painting, house exterior prep and room renovation await. All those jobs that have been put off and put off…

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  4. jaba (2,069 comments) says:

    1 week left .. it’s been a tough year with 2013 possibly tougher so this extra week should be good to recharge

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  5. hj (5,705 comments) says:

    Population Growth is government policy.

    Economic arguments against population growth

    “………. Bigger is not better. China and India both have plenty of people, while countries with the highest per capita incomes and standards of living generally have fewer people. China has greatly reduced population growth with its one child policy and seen vast economic growth – shouldn’t China have failed to grow because its population stabilised? The map above shows a pretty clear inverse relationship between population growth rates and standards of living.

    Nor is a comparison of population density meaningful in this debate, or we could argue that any region with a low population density is ‘underpopulated’ (like Antarctica or the Simpson desert) because we have compared the region to Hong Kong or the Netherlands.

    One core economic argument in favour of a greater population is that utility theory suggests that a trillion people living in poverty and slavery are better that one million happy and fulfilled people, leading lives directed by their own desires. It is known as the repugnant conclusion. I doubt anyone believes this is a good outcome, nor is claimed to be a good reason for greater population – it just happens to be at the heart of economic theory and can spawn unusual conclusions.

    A second argument appeals to economies of scale and suggests that with greater domestic consumption industries can expand to a point where they have economies of scale that make them internationally competitive. Why domestic population is currently a barrier to industry development is beyond me. If there are no artificial constraints on trade, shouldn’t the world be the marketplace of any industry even in its infancy? This argument only works if you couple high population with protectionism (the infant industry argument, which itself is often challenged).

    A third argument, that may be the focus of this debate, is that the demographic shift towards a flat population pyramid means that the proportion of people in the workforce will be much lower, and that public welfare support for the elderly will become a burden on a smaller workforce. However, one does not need to think too hard to realise that stimulating population growth simply delays this inevitable demographic shift. We have known this shift was coming for decades yet have failed to act. But it is not too late to implement solutions more practical than stimulation population growth. ”

    http://ckmurray.blogspot.co.nz/2010/04/economic-arguments-against-population.html
    http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/07/more-failed-arguments-for-population-growth/

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  6. hj (5,705 comments) says:

    We are a country of immigrants is often advanced as a justification for continued (high) immigration, however:

    “… while the GDP that the migrant gets to enjoy rises the marginal cost vs benefit of bringing them in may be greater for the existing population (which have to bear it).

    It’s the reason why I don’t agree with the premise “this country was built on migrants”. Back then the cost vs benefit of a migrant was in favour of that. We had the infrastructure that was otherwise being underutilized so there wasn’t as much cost in adding an extra body. Now that we’ve hit natural and infrastructure barriers (transport, medical care, water, land in capital cities, and more) it’s safe to say with the preferences of most migrants (either Sydney or Melbourne) the benefit they bring on average isn’t probably worth the cost of overcoming these constraints.
    http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2012/07/more-failed-arguments-for-population-growth/

    That’s why;
    “THE case for higher immigration as a driver for economic growth is far from proven, as is the notion that more immigrants can counter the negative effects of population ageing, the Productivity Commission says. ”
    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/immigration/immigration-link-to-economic-growth-yet-to-be-proven-says-productivity-commission/story-fn9hm1gu-1226179973978

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  7. hj (5,705 comments) says:

    “One thing he is clear about is that the demographic changes set to occur in Christchurch could transform the city infamous for its white supremacist National Front movement. While Christchurch does have small ethnic enclaves, hosting lantern festivals for Chinese New Year and Diwali festivals for the Indian community, the scale of the anticipated migrant influx is unparalleled in its history.”
    http://www.massey.ac.nz/massey/about-massey/news/article.cfm?mnarticle_uuid=86EB3C7F-B375-B8DF-A111-53B3788C75E5

    Bold young men drove sheep on to the vast grazing runs to found pastoral empires and land owning dynasties. Out of the wealth from the squatters’ wool clips, and from wheat when the tussock was ploughed, grew a city of scholarship, grace and dignity”

    Professor Kenneth Cumberland Landmarks

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  8. marcw (206 comments) says:

    I would love it if our MSM would stop orgasming over eco-terrorist Paul Watson and his bunch of loopy followers. It seems that you can’t turn on a radio or open a paper without some reporter breathlessly passing on the latest gossip about what he has or hasn’t done today. A good cause does not give anyone the right to do as they please outside the law, and if they want to spend their money on a crusade, good for them, but can we please be spared the details.
    They have crossed that line where they have become the news rather than their cause. If they were to unfortunately kill themselves or others in the Southern Ocean, of course everyone will have to pay to mount recovery or rescue operations to help them.

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  9. kowtow (6,723 comments) says:

    marcw

    The MSM is long past being about news. It’s all advocacy or activism these days.
    Global warming
    Marriage equality
    Celebrity
    Animal rights
    Indigenous rights
    Social justice
    Multiculturalism
    Refugees

    All causes actively pushed against the interests of those of us who pay the price for this .The citizen middle classes.

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  10. Paulus (2,299 comments) says:

    After the next election Watson and his mates in Greenpeace New Zealand Branch, led by Aussie commie Wussel and the token part Maori female from the McGillicuddy Party, will extend all welcomes to the new base in Wellington, protected by the Parliamentary legislation.

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  11. Fletch (5,727 comments) says:

    OK, this is CLASSIC.

    Thieves break into Microsoft’s head office and only steal their Apple products :P

    Thieves broke into Microsoft’s Mountain View campus last Wednesday, and stole five iPads, but left all Microsoft-branded products behind according to a police report.

    Mountain View is the location of Microsoft’s primary research and design facility, so you would expect it to be awash with Windows products, such as the recently released Microsoft Surface tablet and Windows 8-based laptops. However, the canny thief decided to steal only Apple-branded products.

    http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/?newsid=3418779

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  12. Fletch (5,727 comments) says:

    In other news, the man dying of cancer who got to see the newest Star Trek movie, thanks to J.J Abrams, has died.
    He was a Star Trek fan who wanted to see it before he died.

    4:36 PM PST 1/5/2013 by Jane Kellogg
    SHARE
    Comments (16)

    Paramount Pictures
    Diagnosed with terminal cancer, Daniel Craft, director of the New York Asian Film Festival, was allowed to see an early cut of the upcoming Star Trek film nearly five months ahead of its release date.

    At a time when he didn’t have much to look forward to, a Star Trek fan was given the opportunity to watch a rough cut of Star Trek: Into Darkness just days before he died.

    When New York-based film buff Daniel Craft was told he had terminal cancer less than six weeks ago, Craft’s friends and family took it upon themselves to make his last days as happy and comfortable as possible. His friend Doug posted a plea from Craft’s wife, Paige, on the popular Internet message board Reddit, and the message was picked up by social media and the press until it eventually found its way to J.J. Abrams. The director granted him access to see an early edited version of the film, which isn’t set to be released until May.

    “A day or so after the thread began, Paige, Dan’s wife, got a voicemail from JJ Abrams and Damon Lindelof that was very nice and very straightforward: a producer for the movie would get in touch with them,” friend Grady Hendrix wrote in a follow-up post on Reddit. “The next day, one of the film’s producers showed up at the door of their apartment with a DVD containing a very rough cut of Star Trek: Into Darkness in his hands. Paige had made popcorn, Dan had spent the previous day resting so he could sit through the movie, and after signing about 200 non-disclosure agreements they watched the film and had a blast.”
    “J.J. Abrams and the producer who came to give them the early cut told Paige and Dan, ‘Please don’t judge this — it’s very rough, but we wanted you to see what we had,’” Hendrix told The Hollywood Reporter. “Of course, he loved the film. It was the last thing he got to do before he passed away.”
    After watching the film, Craft went back to bed and didn’t get out again. His wife took him to the hospital for hospice care on Friday, and at 10:15 pm, with his wife and his brother by his side, Dan died. He was 41.

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/star-trek-fan-dies-jj-408899

    It’s nice to know that some of the Hollywood bigwigs have a heart.

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  13. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Climate Change in 2013: 5 Things to Expect in the New Year

    1) It will keep getting warmer:
    And we will keep breaking temperature records. Many scientific papers have found an upward trend in temperature records, which averages somewhere around 0.16 degrees Celsius per year; indeed, this is the signature effect of climate change, so much so that this global warming prediction almost goes without saying.

    2) Droughts will persist:
    Notably in the U.S.’ southwest. The Southwest has seen devastating droughts in the past year, and they are expected to intensify in 2013, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). Climate change will continue to make such droughts more likely into the future

    3) Artic Ice coverage will again be very low:
    On September 16, 2012, a record minimum was set for Arctic sea ice – both in ice extent and volume. That means that a huge portion of the ice in the Arctic this winter is first-year ice, especially since large quantities of older ice melted in 2012. The younger ice is thinner and melts more rapidly in the summer than older ice. These conditions make the Arctic more susceptible to significant ice depletion in 2013; even if it does not set a new record

    4) Summer will be a little longer: Fall will keep coming later, and spring earlier.
    The leaves stay on the trees approximately 10 days longer now than they did in the early 1980s in the United States. Spring has likewise been arriving earlier and earlier over the last half-century, as measured by the arrival of new leaves. Both of these seasonal shifts have their roots in an increase in average temperature

    5) Storms and sea level rise: will continue to put low-lying costal areas at risk.
    Climate change brings the forbidding threesome of rising sea levels, more storm-surge-causing weather, and more intense rain. These three factors put low-lying areas at risk – as New York and New Jersey learned only too well this past hurricane season

    from http://www.policymic.com/articles/22061/climate-change-in-2013-5-things-to-expect-in-the-new-year

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  14. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Thanks for that Sermon Griff, but I am an atheist and base my ideas on evidence ;)

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  15. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    This from well known Sceptic, Sam Harris:

    Here is a list I compiled about 25 years ago on symptoms that a group was a cult.

    1. Are members expected to obey the leader without question at all times?

    2. Do the group members show a lack of humor? Are they unable to joke about their membership in the group?

    ….5. Does the group promote an “end of the world” or “something great is about to happen” attitude?

    6. Are group members and leadership unwilling to acknowledge the legitimacy of other groups?

    7. Is there an “Us against Them” mentality?

    http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewthread/6709/

    The shoe seems to fit dear Griff ….

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  16. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Australia Heat Sparks Fires, Shatters Records

    Weather record books for Tasmania will have to be rewritten following the highest temperatures in more than 100 years.

    Friday, Hobart registered 41.8 degrees C (107.2 F), shattering the old high mark of 40.8, set on Jan. 4, 1976, data from the Australian Bureau of Meteorology (BoM) showed. Record keeping began in Hobart in 1882.

    The Hobart airport also set a record high, being 40.3 degrees C, or 104.5 degrees F. The normal high is only 21.6 degrees C, or 71 degrees F.

    Orford and Bushy Park, also in southeastern Tasmania, also set high temperature records, the BoM website showed.

    Meanwhile, the southern cities of Melbourne and Adelaide got a respite, following Friday’s searing winds, thanks to onshore flow.

    Adelaide city topped at 45 degrees C, or 113 F, Friday. While the South Australia state capital high was not a record, the nearby airport’s maximum of 44.1 degrees C was, if by only 0.1 of a degree.

    http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/australia-heat-sparks-fires-sh/3690820

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  17. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    What do you think about this opinion piece?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10857639

    Keeping Stock?

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  18. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    That was Chris Rattue on Taylor

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  19. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    A similar but more peaceable fate is befalling believers in what can be called the religion of the global warming alarmists.

    They have an unshakeable faith that manmade carbon emissions will produce a hotter climate, causing natural disasters. Their insistence that we can be absolutely certain this will come to pass is based not on science — which is never fully settled, witness the recent experiments that may undermine Einstein’s theory of relativity — but on something very much like religious faith.

    All the trappings of religion are there. Original sin: Mankind is responsible for these prophesied disasters, especially those slobs who live in suburbs and drive their SUVs to strip malls and tacky chain restaurants.

    The need for atonement and repentance: We must impose a carbon tax or cap-and-trade system, which will raise the cost of everything and stunt economic growth.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/collapse_of_the_global_warming_cult_i6wFd1mBJGFmSaY04CI2EL

    The Global Warming Cult and the Death of Science

    “………”If you believe that freedom is at the core of what it means to be human, then theWarmists and what they stand for are instinctively repulsive to you. On the other hand, if you believe that human society must be organized into a moral collective for the betterment of all, then theWarmist idea provides a wake up call compelling us to form into ranks and goose step in recycled rubber boots into the green future. ”

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2849231/posts

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  20. Nookin (2,891 comments) says:

    IMHO, Rattue writes to to satisfy his ever-expanding ego. He needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

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  21. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    1. Are members expected to obey the leader without question at all times

    who the fuck is the leader ?
    This is another flight of conspirawhacky from you kea

    Incidentally I have not seen al gores movie and have absolutely no intention of watching it
    its a dumped down piece of American garbage spiel to the ignorant masses in the USA

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  22. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    A few of the current record low temperatures

    As Japan continues to deal with a persisting cold front, Christmas Day brought record low temperatures to as many as 44 locations http://www.sott.net/article/255200-Record-low-temperatures-hit-Japanese-cities

    LUCKNOW, India (AP) — More than 100 people have died of exposure as northern India deals with historically cold temperatures. http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2013/01/04/cold-weather-india-deaths/1809315/

    People in many parts of China welcomed the new year in record-low temperatures, and the cold weather is expected to move farther south, the National Meteorological Center said on Wednesday. http://english.sina.com/china/p/2013/0102/544142.html

    With hundreds dead, lines of transport cut off and fuel supplies rationed, the whole of Europe is at war — with the weather. Since the end of January, the cold front has claimed over 500 lives in Europe; the Weather Underground rates it as Europe’s coldest outbreak since at least 1991.

    With hundreds dead, lines of transport cut off and fuel supplies rationed, the whole of Europe is at war — with the weather. Since the end of January, the cold front has claimed over 500 lives in Europe; the Weather Underground rates it as Europe’s coldest outbreak since at least 1991. http://www.guilfordian.com/worldnation/2012/02/16/europe-braces-for-more-cold-weather-as-siberian-cold-front-marches-south/

    The cold snap gripping Europe shows no sign of letting up as the UK braces for snow next week. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/dec/07/snow-cold-snap

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  23. Manolo (12,641 comments) says:

    Ah, Griff, the perennnial warmist enamoured of all-things AGW.
    An Al Gore fan, no doubt.

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  24. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, record lows AND record highs is a sign of climate change.

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  25. Fletch (5,727 comments) says:

    Obama outright lies in weekly address –

    Here’s what he said –

    Hi, everybody. Over the past year, as I traveled across the country campaigning for this office, I told you that if I was fortunate enough to be re-elected, I’d work to change a tax code that too often benefited the wealthy at the expense of the middle class.

    This week, we did that. For the first time in two decades, we raised taxes on the wealthiest 2% of Americans in a bipartisan way, while preventing a middle-class tax hike that could have thrown our economy back into recession.

    Under this law, more than 98% of Americans and 97% of small business will not see their income taxes go up one dime…

    And the actual truth –

    ** Under the new fiscal cliff plan workers making less than $30,000 a year will take a bigger hit than those making $500,000 a year.
    ** The fiscal cliff bill that passed the US Senate and the US House will raise payroll taxes from 4.2% to 6.2%. In other words those making $100,000 a year will see their taxes increase by $2,000.
    ** The bill raised taxes on 77% of American households.

    LINK

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  26. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    So as people are freezing to death over Europe, India & China (most of the world) Griff wants us to worry about it being a bit hotter than usual in Tasmania ! Wow.

    Keep em coming Griff :)

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  27. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Of course the same criticism can be made of government itself, let alone any policy of government

    For example

    Those who pose that the original sin of man was the formation of government and the collection of tribute (taxes) to fund it

    Then pose that repentance of trust in big government is required – with a new belief that the market knows best (or God let the people choose) replacing it. Atonement being based on selling off what the government owns and reducing the means by which government can operate (lower taxes/less tribute) and via subsidiarity handing over government service delivery functions to either faith based groups or for profit companies.

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  28. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, noting that half the world is going through winter while half is going through summer does not disprove global warming, and certainly not the climate change forecast to occur as a result.

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  29. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    And while the northern hemisphere has more of the land mass and population it is not most of the world, only most of the populated world.

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  30. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    There is a vast difference from a historical all time record kea then a short term one
    as usually the nutters post any old piece of garbage that seems to support there conspirawhacky with out even reading it

    China
    People in many parts of China welcomed the new year in record-low temperatures, and the cold weather is expected to move farther south, the National Meteorological Center said on Wednesday. http://english.sina.com/china/p/2013/0102/544142.html

    The extreme cold has largely been attributed to the shrinking of ice in the Arctic caused by global warming, Zhou Botao, an expert at the National Climate Center, told People’s Daily.

    The melting of the ice helps push the cold air south, he said.

    India
    Temperatures in New Delhi, which borders Uttar Pradesh, hit a high Wednesday of 49.6 degrees F, the lowest maximum temperature in the capital since 1969

    Europe
    the Weather Underground rates it as Europe’s coldest outbreak since at least 1991

    England
    Rainy year-end poised to seal 2012 as UK’s wettest ever

    Thanks for the weather links KEA pity that
    ! they are not current
    2 they don’t support your conspirawhacky

    Axeman posts the weather as well are you two friends in the same nuttery

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  31. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Fletch, the tax debate was over the more longstanding Bush era tax rate cuts.

    There was always bi-partisan agreement that the 2% cut in the payroll tax, a more recent event, would be temporary and occur until the unemployment rate started to come down.

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  32. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Kea, noting that half the world is going through winter while half is going through summer does not disprove global warming, and certainly not the climate change forecast to occur as a result.

    SPC. Agreed, I am pleased you got my point.

    Now, I am just wondering why you did not make that reply to Griff when he pointed out it is a bit hot in Tasmania, which is currently at the height of the dry season ?

    You say that warm and cold are both signs of climate change. What would prove to you the AGW theory is wrong? (given that climate is always changing)

    Why are you willing to accept isolated “weather” events as proof of AGW, but reject “weather” as evidence against AGW.

    There seems to be a lot of double standards being applied here.

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  33. kowtow (6,723 comments) says:

    The climate is always changing. We’re currently in a warming phase (thank goodness), our civilisation is based on it. It’s been going on for 10 -25 000 years.

    As Cpl Jones would say “Don’t panic”, more importantly don’t let governments ax us or reduce our standards of living on account of it!

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  34. kowtow (6,723 comments) says:

    tax not ax! Same thing.

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  35. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    The extreme cold has largely been attributed to the shrinking of ice in the Arctic

    The shrinking ice made it colder ………. lol :) :)

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  36. Manolo (12,641 comments) says:

    Bludgers of the world, unite!
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/06/welfare-recipients-take-out-cash-at-strip-clubs-liquor-stores/?intcmp=trending

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  37. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    The climate is always changing. We’re currently in a warming phase (thank goodness),

    Kowtow, the people in India, China, Europe ect have never felt such freezing warmth.

    I guess those who froze to death are just being paid by “big oil” and are crazy “climate deniers” :)

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  38. MT_Tinman (2,793 comments) says:

    Griff (3,729) Says:
    January 7th, 2013 at 11:15 am
    Climate Change in 2013: 5 Things to Expect in the New Year

    1) It will keep getting warmer:
    And we will keep breaking temperature records.

    4) Summer will be a little longer: Fall will keep coming later, and spring earlier.

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  39. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea,

    There is little isolated about the prevalence of the extreme weather events.

    What would disprove human generated global warming causing climate change would be

    1. the world temperature average falling back from the 1995-2012 high of recent times to lower levels
    2. the world temperature average holding at the level for a few more decades
    3. weather patterns within their average, lack of record highs and lack of record lows.
    4. rainfall falling within the norm rather than new record downpours.

    PS, temperature change at the poles will effect climate patterns around the rest of the world – transfer cold weather to other areas in the winter. The Chinese guy was simply noting what happened in Europe a year or so back when they had a record cold period because of change at the Arctic.

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  40. MT_Tinman (2,793 comments) says:

    Griff (3,729) Says:
    January 7th, 2013 at 11:15 am
    Climate Change in 2013: 5 Things to Expect in the New Year

    1) It will keep getting warmer:
    And we will keep breaking temperature records.

    4) Summer will be a little longer: Fall will keep coming later, and spring earlier.

    Sorry ’bout the double post –

    I fail to see the downside here.

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  41. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    That is why its called climate change kea
    All time record high temperatures count
    minor local twenty year ones like you posted don’t

    If you disagree with the opinion of a scientist I think you should debate it with him please keep us informed of the results
    http://www.journalogy.net/Author/34477541/botao-zhou

    As he is somewhat of an expert and you are just a nutter on a blog I know who I would trust for information on the climate

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  42. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    MT_Tinman, you sound like one of those Russians and Canadians …. both notable for their lack of concern about global warming.

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  43. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    What would disprove human generated global warming causing climate change would be

    1. the world temperature average falling back from the 1995-2012 high of recent times to lower levels
    2. the world temperature average holding at the level for a few more decades
    3. weather patterns within their average, lack of record highs and lack of record lows.
    4. rainfall falling within the norm rather than new record downpours.

    SPC, you have assumed that some sort of abitrary temperature. at a particular point in time, is the “correct one”. There is not any “correct” temperature and there is no “norm”. Climate is, and always has been, in a state of flux. If it was not, we would not be here and the world would be buried under meters of ice, as it has been a number of times.

    At the heart of your assumptions is the unscientific and arrogant belief that all the world is here for mans benefit. It is not.

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  44. Manolo (12,641 comments) says:

    Griff, how many times a day do you pray at the altar of Gaia? Are you a card-carrying member of the Green Party?
    An Al Gore follower?

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  45. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    If you disagree with the opinion of a scientist

    I agree with many “scientists” about the AGW theory. I tend to agree less with those who rely 100% on the AGW lie for their income and professional recognition. If they fail to maintain the myth, they lose their income and professional reputation.

    Have you ever considered what all these “climate scientists” will do for work when the truth comes out?

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  46. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    I trust nutters on blogs more than I do the scientific “experts”.
    this is what is grinding my gears:
    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2013/01/crazy-mother-of-young-cancer-sufferer.html

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  47. axeman (250 comments) says:

    2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

    Welcome to the cooling New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … Oh dear

    2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

    http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/

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  48. axeman88 (4 comments) says:

    2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

    Welcome to the cool New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … Oh Dear

    2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

    http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/

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  49. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    More unsupported statements by our expert at making stuff up kea

    Please expand on the climate flux experienced by human civilization kea with links to your sources

    The global temperatures are now hotter than at any time since humans developed civilization

    And don’t bother with links to denial websites for some reason they just don’t cut it .Edu or .gov please

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  50. axeman88 (4 comments) says:

    2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

    Welcome to the cool New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … :-(
    2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

    http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/

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  51. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    I wonder how some of Sally Robert’s supporters would feel if she was refusing the poor kid treatment on ‘Religious’ grounds? And not just some obsession with alternative ‘New Age’ therapy?

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  52. axeman (250 comments) says:

    And latest report from Earth Scientists (yeah yeah I know kea … gwiff [again] will call them nutters)

    “…our rejection of AGW is not absolute; it might be a false positive, and we cannot rule out the possibility that recent global warming has an anthropogenic footprint. However, this possibility is very small, and is not statistically significant at conventional levels.”

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/03/agw-bombshell-a-new-paper-shows-statistical-tests-for-global-warming-fails-to-find-statistically-significantly-anthropogenic-forcing/

    We know 2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

    Welcome to the cooling New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year …

    2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began. Oh dear

    http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/

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  53. axeman88 (4 comments) says:

    And latest report from Earth Scientists (yeah yeah I know kea … gwiff [again] will call them nutters)

    “…our rejection of AGW is not absolute; it might be a false positive, and we cannot rule out the possibility that recent global warming has an anthropogenic footprint. However, this possibility is very small, and is not statistically significant at conventional levels.”

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/03/agw-bombshell-a-new-paper-shows-statistical-tests-for-global-warming-fails-to-find-statistically-significantly-anthropogenic-forcing/

    We know 2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

    Welcome to the cool New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … :-(

    2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

    http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/

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  54. OTGO (457 comments) says:

    I’m old enough to remember the scare mongering going on at my primary school about the earth freezing over and people having to migrate towards the tropics to survive. Also the restoration of the ice bridge between Alaska and Russia which would mean the nasty commies could just drive their snomobiles over and attack the good ol’ USA. What a lot of tosh.
    And if the earth is warming there will be winners and losers. Unscientifically I think NZ will be a net winner.

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  55. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Please expand on the climate flux experienced by human civilization kea with links to your sources

    The global temperatures are now hotter than at any time since humans developed civilization

    Now I am begining to see what drives you Griff. It is the absurd idea that humans are the cumulation of something and are somehow unique. We are not.

    “Human civilization” is not a bench mark for climate. There have been huge and dramatic changes in climate, many of which almost wiped out humans. Most of which occured before modern humans even existed. Are you denying the last Ice Age, for example?

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  56. axeman (250 comments) says:

    And latest report from Earth Scientists (yeah yeah I know kea … gwiff [again] will call them nutters)

    “…our rejection of AGW is not absolute; it might be a false positive, and we cannot rule out the possibility that recent global warming has an anthropogenic footprint. However, this possibility is very small, and is not statistically significant at conventional levels.”

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/03/agw-bombshell-a-new-paper-shows-statistical-tests-for-global-warming-fails-to-find-statistically-significantly-anthropogenic-forcing/

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  57. axeman (250 comments) says:

    Welcome to the cooling New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … Oh dear

    2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

    http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/

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  58. axeman (250 comments) says:

    We know 2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

    Welcome to the cooling New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year …

    2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

    http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/

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  59. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea,

    You asked a question about what would disprove global warming generating climate change, then when this is answered in an entirely predictable way based on lack of much climate change – respond by saying that there is no norm to compare anything to.

    Your view is simply that because the world climate changes, with or without human impact, you don’t care if there is climate change caused by us. Clearly your attempt to deny human induced climate change is happening is because at heart your attitude is so what.

    That there is a state of flux, is no reason to exacerbate this by participating in causing a global warming that creates extremes of weather.

    “At the heart of your assumptions is the unscientific and arrogant belief that all the world is here for mans benefit. It is not”

    Pot, kettle, black.

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  60. axeman (250 comments) says:

    Plus the latest UAH measurements show a further steady decline for December to +0.20 degree C

    http://www.drroyspencer.com/2013/01/uah-v5-5-global-temperature-update-for-december-2012-0-20-deg-c/

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  61. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    OTGO, whether even those regions that have local advatanges from global warming, are better off is questionable. We are inter-dependent in the global market. Some will be relatively better off.

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  62. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    SPC, climate is changing. Man will have some influence on climate, but not enough to matter. The outcome will be the same, regardless of what man does or does not do.

    Those who blame man have other agendas that have nothing to do with climate and everything to do with environmental extremism, politics and a wider concern about various social issues.

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  63. axeman (250 comments) says:

    2013 Will Be The Worst Year For Warmists Since Records Began

    http://toryaardvark.com/2013/01/02/2013-will-be-the-worst-year-for-warmists-since-records-began/

    We know 2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

    Welcome to the cool New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … Oh dear

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  64. axeman (250 comments) says:

    Welcome to the cool New Year gwiff. Here is what your alarmist cult has to look forward to this year … :-(

    2012 was an unprecedented year of disaster and defeat for the Greens and warming alarmists, it was a year that on the face of it offered much hope to the watermelons, in June there was going to be the Rio+20 Earth Summit, COP18 in Doha was going to build on the progress of COP17 and the Durban Platform and the European Union was going to single-handedly enforce a flying tax on the world.

    Instead it all went to hell in solar powered hand cart, as Green defeat followed Green defeat.

    On January 1st 2012 the EU announced the start of its Green flying tax on all flights in and out of the EU, as global opposition to the Green tax mounted, Comrade Connie Hedegaard, the EU’s unelected Climate Commissar remained bullish and insisted that the world would bow down to her Green will.

    Many nations including the US, China and India prohibited their airlines from taking part in the EU flying tax amid threats of a trade war, particularly from China. Finally in November Hedegaard and the EU backed down and suspended their Green flying tax for forever 12 months.

    The Rio+20 Earth summit held the promise of the chance to relive the glory days of warming alarmism:

    From the outset Rio+20 moved away from the Climate Change and Global Warming memes, instead the new meme was sustainable development, despite the new Plug n Play meme, Rio+20 was a complete failure.

    Rio+20 was also the start of the side lining of the Green NGOs like Greenpeace, WWF and FoE from the whole farcical UNFCCC process, the days when Greenpeace was a force to reckoned with have passed.

    The sheer irrelevance of the Green NGOs now, to the whole UN process was further demonstrated at COP18 where they were basically told to sit down and shut up.

    Climate Change continued to slide off the political radar during the US Presidential Election, and despite much event attribution by the warmists, in direct contravention to what their own climate scientists say, Climate Change has continued its slide into political oblivion.

    COP18 was an even bigger failure that COP17, held in an atmosphere of fear and loathing, the outcome could only ever have been failure or implosion.

    The failure of COP18 passed a death sentence on Kyoto, with a limited number of nations signing up for Kyoto 2, and some of those already running away 2012 was a very bad year for Big Green.

    The good or bad news depending upon your perspective is 2013 will be even worse for the warming alarmists.

    According to warming alarmist website Responding To Climate Change (RTCC) there are 10 climate questions that need answering in 2013:

    Will we see raised ambition next year?

    It was a running theme in 2012 that culminated in the unspectacular climax of the UN climate change talks in Doha.

    The simple answer is No, politicians are driven by the political will of their electorate, the UN Climate Commissar Christiana Figueres has said there is no populist support for an ambitious climate deal. When there is real support, not bullshit polls that show 80% of the population want a wind turbine in their back yard, then there will be raised ambition, until then, nothing will happen.

    Time for Russia to come in from the cold?

    Russia’s dismay at the outcome of the UN climate change talks in Doha was the clearest position they took throughout the whole fortnight of negotiations and the year-long build up.

    Russia is so dismayed that it announced on January 1st that, it will not renew its commitment to the Kyoto Protocol

    Will Obama shake up US climate policy?

    There were few signs in Doha of a shift from the traditional US position at the UN talks but with long time climate action advocate John Kerry nominated as the next Secretary of State, change could be coming.

    Another resounding No, there will be some platitudes from Kerry, some vague promises but overall no change from the US position at Doha. The wishful thinking that a second term Obama is free to follow any policy he wants is nothing more than that, wishful thinking, Obama’s successor will have to campaign on Obama’s record as President on the things that matter to Americans like jobs and prosperity. Climate Change policies are by definition anti-progress, anti-wealth neither of which are vote winners except to a minority who have Anthropogenic Global Warming as a core pillar of their belief system.

    Are we set for more extreme weather in 2013?

    The UK’s Met Office has already predicted that 2013 will almost certainly be one of the ten warmest years on record and possibly the warmest ever.

    The new year had yet to begin and already the UK Met Office were predicting that 2013 will be one of the 10 warmest years since records began (1979 by the way) and possibly the warmest ever.

    The UK Met Office has an unenviable record of failed predictions, surpassed only by the warming alarmist movement as a whole. Britons remember the barbecue summer that turned into a deluge, the scary fear stories of Britain’s drought and water shortages in 2012, and the floods and never ending rain that have followed ever since.

    Will Poland ditch its ‘villain’ tag before the next UN climate change talks?

    The confirmation of Poland as the next host of the UN ‘COP’ talks was about as unpopular as Doha’s one year earlier.

    The choice of Poland to host COP19 was curious, there are many who are disenchanted with the UNFCCC process and want it replaced with a new UN Climate Circus, so possibly Poland was chosen to ensure that the COP process is killed off, or, some Green hopeful thinking that if Poland hosts a UN COP meeting, the country would be converted to the Green Dream.

    The start of the worst year for warmists began on January 1st when Russia announced that it will never sign up to a new Kyoto, which means the other major emitters like China, US and India will never sign up either, without the so called major emitters the whole premise of a climate agreement is worthless, and 2013 is the year the truth will finally sink in for Big Green.

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  65. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, at the heart of the matter is a question

    If there is human induced climate change that has an adverse economic and political impact (and you only have to see the security assessments done in the USA on what would happen with global warming induced climate change to appreciate that), then is there a cost benefit to action to mitigate this? And, if so, what action?

    This is where the politics then come in – with the second question, of what action?

    Of course those whose natural instinct is to oppose government action, and advocate that we should let the market or “nature” take its course, won’t want it to go that far. And of them are those with the financial interest in this course who have sponsored their own scientists.

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  66. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    “Many nations including the US, China and India prohibited their airlines from taking part in the EU flying tax”

    So the three biggest countries in the world are not interested. That makes Griff a big fat liar, he told us they were right into all that end of the world stuff.

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  67. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    SPC, lets agree to disagree. What is the solution then…. ? (to AGW)

    So far we have been told that unless we become a planet of communist vegan peasant farmers with a central all powerful world government, the world will end. (It appears the problem is caused by white people and capitalism, aggravated by democracy. )

    Do you have any other suggestions ?

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  68. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    AXE
    i am not green
    Political failure to address the problem is totally outside of the science
    As to WUWT and other nutter websites :lol: full of shite. You would have to be a real fucknuckle to get your science from such blogs
    would you like me to liost the papers in sopport of agw it would onlybe over forteen thousand and climbing daily.

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  69. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    International financial regulators have eased rules on minimum quantities of cash and liquid assets all banks must hold, set to take effect in 2015.

    The new rules are part of efforts to prevent financial shocks such as those prompted by the 2007 run on Northern Rock in the UK, or by the 2008 collapse of Lehman Brothers in the US. Banks will have to hold enough cash and easily sellable assets, to tide them over during an acute 30-day crisis.

    Perhaps the most striking characteristics of today’s agreement – which amends a draft first published in 2010 – is that banks will be allowed to include corporate bonds, some shares and high-quality residential mortgage backed securities in their permitted stocks of liquid assets.

    This goes against the grain of central banking and regulatory orthodoxy. In particular, the inclusion of mortgage-backed securities will be seen by some as odd, since these proved to be wholly illiquid and unsellable in the summer of 2007.

    Analysts had warned that over-stringent standards could reduce lending and stifle economic growth.

    It also gives them more time to comply with the new standards. The head of oversight body’s head, Mervyn King, said the timeframe ensures the rules “will in no way hinder the ability of the global banking system to finance the recovery”.

    BBC business editor Robert Peston says the oddity is that most banks currently hold considerably more than the new minimum requirement – because leading central banks have injected massive amounts of liquidity into the financial system through “quantitative easing”.

    But this simply reflects the depressed times we live in, our correspondents says.

    The new rules would force banks to hold vastly more liquid assets than they did in 2007 when big banks barely had enough cash to meet demands for repayment from relatively small numbers of depositors and creditors, our correspondent adds.

    They are part of the broader “Basel III” package of reforms, which will require lenders to set aside more capital to absorb losses.
    The Basel Committee brings together representatives regulators from 27 nations.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20928354

    Two main points

    BBC business editor Robert Peston says the oddity is that most banks currently hold considerably more than the new minimum requirement – because leading central banks have injected massive amounts of liquidity into the financial system through “quantitative easing”.

    Perhaps the most striking characteristics of today’s agreement – which amends a draft first published in 2010 – is that banks will be allowed to include corporate bonds, some shares and high-quality residential mortgage backed securities in their permitted stocks of liquid assets.

    This goes against the grain of central banking and regulatory orthodoxy. In particular, the inclusion of mortgage-backed securities will be seen by some as odd, since these proved to be wholly illiquid and unsellable in the summer of 2007.

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  70. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    shit that jumped into cyber space before I could edit crome does not like kiwiblog

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  71. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, the fact that it is a global issue and requires inter-government co-operation, does mean agreement on the science is important. Thus the conflict between acting soon enough to make a difference and waiting for the evidence to be decisive.

    Despite this there was movement via Kyoto – possibly because policy to reduce carbon use would allow slower use of oil as we were facing peak oil. Now shale oil and shale gas reduces the risk of peak oil (and also allows an alternative to the more AGW impacting coal). With peak oil deferred because of a new resource that allows lower coal use, some see the issue as less acute and are more prepared to return focus to the science.

    If the science does indicate global warming, then any response needs to be global, not just the Kyoto nations.

    We have global trade and WTO trade rules etc, a WHO, an international criminal court, a World Bank, an IMF, so the idea that any other global level action on finite resource use means a global government that is a threat to democracy and capitalism and the white (majortiy nation?) peoples is something out of the conspiracy theory realm.

    As to options, one way to manage depletion of a finite global resource is to place a carbon tax tax on all tradeable goods (impacts on all nations equally and reduces any trade advantage from intensive carbon use in production). The money raised used for renewables in third world nations and research on new technology. This would slow use of carbon and assist in slowing any global wamring.

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  72. kowtow (6,723 comments) says:

    grief’s scientific but subtle debating vocabulary;

    nutter
    fuckknuckle
    shite
    conspirawhacky

    Excellent ways to prove one’s point.

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  73. Manolo (12,641 comments) says:

    The cartoons should be printed all over the world to annoy the savages.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2256690/Magazine-firebombed-printing-satirical-Sharia-edition-France-publishes-Prophet-Mohammed-cartoon-book.html

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  74. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    would you like me to liost the papers in sopport of agw it would onlybe over forteen thousand and climbing daily.

    Griff, you pay me that sort of money and I will write a paper supporting AGW too !

    SPC, so your solution to AGW is “to place a carbon tax tax on all tradeable goods” with the purpose of taking money from those people who earned it, and giving it to those who did not. So it is clear what informs your support of AGW, it is socialism, same as the rest of em.

    If you want to embrace the proven failure that is socialism, then so be it. But at least have the guts and honesty to be up front about it. If your into Gaia and the environment, then great, but just say so. Stop using this AGW bullshit to promote other causes.

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  75. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, if your argument against doing anything about AGW, is that anything we did would be a form of socialism, so we should do nothing, then just say so.

    You see using some of the carbon tax money to build renewable production in the third world as socialism – no more than IMF bail outs of OECD nations, World Bank loans to the third world and existing foreign aid. And with an actual result – reducing their dependence on a finite global resource.

    I see you are simply a religious disciple of the cult where any responsibitiy for human actions that impact on the environment/global climate is to dismissed as a form of (alien) socialist heresy to the capitalism of the white race.

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  76. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Some of you may wonder what “Carbon” is. You probably assume it is some contaminant put into the environment by man. Actually it is the basis of all known life on earth.

    Carbon is the 15th most abundant element in the Earth’s crust, and the fourth most abundant element in the universe by mass after hydrogen, helium, and oxygen. It is present in all known life forms, and in the human body carbon is the second most abundant element by mass….Carbon compounds form the basis of all known life on Earth…Carbon occurs in all known organic life and is the basis of organic chemistry

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon

    You got it folks. Griff, SPC and the AGW cult want us heavily taxed for using organic products.

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  77. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Can you define heavily taxed carbon Kea? The petrol tax we pay for our roads, is that heavily taxed for carbon use?

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  78. Manolo (12,641 comments) says:

    Griff, besides AGW, have you also embraced socialism?

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  79. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Kea, if your argument against doing anything about AGW, is that anything we did would be a form of socialism

    SPC, No it is simply a reflection of the fact that the measures you suggested are all socialist. I have yet to hear of any measures that do not involve undermining capatilist Western democratic society.

    Do you know any way to address AGW without dismantaling capitalism, destroying the US, and doing away with democracy ?

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  80. kowtow (6,723 comments) says:

    manolo

    The irony is that the Daily Fail who published that story pixillated He Who Must Not be Portrayed (PBUH).Presumably ,
    as they are in sharia compliant Britain,not to be accused by the Crown of a hate crime or
    as they are in a Muslim fearing UK,not to be burned down.Or perhaps to avoid both scenarios.

    Either way,freedom of speech is dead and dhimmitude is growing apace.

    Meanwhile ,and I hate to say this good on the Froggies at Charlie Hebdo. I hope they have generous insurers.

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  81. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, can you explain how a carbon tax on the carbon used in manufacture of tradeable goods dismantles capitalism, destory the USA and does way with democracy?

    And you have the gall to question the science behind AGW.

    It has to be religion, you have only belief. The bible tells some so, now who told you what to believe so that you became a religious disciple of the cult where any responsibitiy for human actions that impact on the environment/global climate is to dismissed as a form of (alien) socialist heresy to the capitalism of the white race. And does he vote Republican?

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  82. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    You see using some of the carbon tax money to build renewable production in the third world as socialism – no more than IMF bail outs of OECD nations, World Bank loans to the third world and existing foreign aid. And with an actual result – reducing their dependence on a finite global resource.

    SPC, yes I guess that is what made Central Africa the success it is today !

    If you want to really see how to turn around the “third world” look to China. They are building a new coal fired power plant every two weeks and have lifted hundreds of millions out of poverty. (The other thing they did was drop socialism)

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  83. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    ANGRY Illinois State Rep Explodes on house floor!

    Illinois Representative Mike Bost (Republican) launching into a tirade on the floor of the House of Representatives. It’s aimed at the House Speaker Michael Madigan (Democrat), whom he accuses of wielding too much power. Like a Pharaoh, apparently. Hence the not-at-all dramatic “Let my people go!” reference.

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  84. Weihana (4,475 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Some of you may wonder what “Carbon” is. You probably assume it is some contaminant put into the environment by man. Actually it is the basis of all known life on earth.

    So is water. Does this mean I can live happily at the bottom of the sea? :)

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  85. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, sure China is ensuring that more coal is now used in producing the world products than before.

    I see you do not regard one party government as socialist. Nor that China’s level of government ownership or control over the economy is socialist. Yet a carbon tax on tradeable tax is socialist?

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  86. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has told West Bank officials to prepare to put the words “State of Palestine” on public documents, official media say.

    Until now passports, ID cards, driving licences and other documents have been stamped “Palestinian Authority”.
    In November, Mr Abbas led a successful campaign for the UN to upgrade the Palestinians’ status to that of an observer state.
    The status was previously that of a “non-member observer entity”.

    In a decree carried on Sunday by the official Wafa news agency, Mr Abbas said the move on labelling public documents would help bolster the Palestinian state “on the ground and build its institutions… and its sovereignty over the its land”.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20929367

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  87. Manolo (12,641 comments) says:

    The NZ Police will put this woman in jail: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/06/georgia-mom-home-alone-with-kids-shoots-ex-con-intruder/?intcmp=trending

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  88. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    We decided to establish what support there is these law changes among the New Zealand public and asked three questions in a recent omnibus survey:

    A bill was recently introduced in Parliament, which, if it becomes law, would allow same sex couples to marry. Are you in favour or not in favour of same sex couples being allowed to marry?

    At present, same sex couples are not permitted to adopt children. If same sex couples were to marry, they would be able to adopt children under the present law. In your view, should same sex couples who are married, be able to adopt children?

    And in your view, should same sex civil union couples be able to adopt children?

    The New Zealand public have a fairly liberal attitude to the question of same sex marriage, 49 percent are in favour, 32 percent opposed and 15 percent saying they don’t care one way or the other. In effect, 64 percent support, or at least do not oppose, same sex marriages.

    If same sex couples are married they are automatically able to adopt children. Some 64 percent are in favour of this being the case, while 31 percent are not in favour. However, same sex couples in a civil union are not able to adopt children under current law. Nevertheless, 62 percent of respondents are in favour of same sex couples in civil union being able to adopt children.

    http://www.researchnz.com/media_releases.html

    Some detail to the poll results is available.

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  89. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    The NZ Police will put this woman in jail

    Or shoot her as an armed offender.

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  90. nasska (9,549 comments) says:

    Kea

    She might get lucky & only receive a light tasering.

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  91. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Keas

    You have now exposed your real bases for apposing global warming because you view the proposed mitigation attempts as socialist

    politics is politics

    science is science

    you do not have the mental capacity to separate the two

    thicko

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  92. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Big ups to the Georgia woman:

    http://nowoccupy.blogspot.com/2013/01/its-not-guns-that-kill-smurfs-its.html

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  93. mikenmild (8,894 comments) says:

    Griff
    +1
    A lot of people have difficulty in separating climate science from the politics of climate change. While it is rational to accept the scientific consensus about anthropgenic global warming, it is not irrational to conclude that the current international efforts to limit carbon emissions will fail. It is irrational though to work backwards from dislike of a proposed solution to denial of a problem.

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  94. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    That MM is a polite way to say nutter :lol:

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  95. axeman (250 comments) says:

    kowtow (3,498) Says:
    January 7th, 2013 at 2:10 pm
    grief’s scientific but subtle debating vocabulary;

    nutter
    fuckknuckle
    shite
    conspirawhacky

    Excellent ways to prove one’s point.
    …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..
    LOL. gwiff you should be over at the echo chamber alarmist sites like the truffle grower and the retired English school teacher’s bogshite. You would enjoy it where they all spit and snarl and froth at the mouth when Earth Scientists disprove the alarmists bullshit theories.

    You may not be a GWEEN but your fellow travellers/cultists certainly are, and you and them are not going to be happy this year :-(

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  96. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Actually axenuckle I enjoy making fun of you nutters :lol:

    It would make me happy if someone did disprove global warming unfortunately that is not going to happen.

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  97. axeman (250 comments) says:

    Au contraire ‘grief’. Wat, Kea, kowtow et al and myself like taking the piss out of you and your CAGW cult :-)

    Sceptics like Watts and his contributing SCIENTISTS would probably love to hear that some know nothing dickwad stoner from the north of Aotearoa is calling them ‘nutters’ :-)

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  98. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Hope you rot in hell you piece of shit..

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/8149863/Arrest-over-womans-attack-rape

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  99. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    contributing SCIENTISTS :lol: Has he got some? climate scientist that is not high school drop outs
    watts is still trying to get the paper published you know the one that proves his theory :lol:
    pity he forgot to add the required adjustments
    made him look like a fucken idiot :lol:
    all that effort and the result
    he proved that the temperature record for the USA is reliable
    His so important heat island effect proves AGW :lol:

    Oh and by the way my cult has lots of scientific organizations behind it name the organizations behind yours

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  100. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    You have now exposed your real bases for apposing global warming because you view the proposed mitigation attempts as socialist

    No Griffy, I am just wondering why all the mitigation attempts are socialist? Why do we not see any free market capatilist attempts at mitigation? They might actually work.

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  101. kowtow (6,723 comments) says:

    Global warming disproved? But that’s the point. The Earth is warming,thank goodness. Not that long ago most of Europe ,NZ etc were covered in ice. Global warming is great ,we can’t live under ice sheets!

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  102. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    The free market by definition will not solve the tragedy of the commons
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

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  103. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    axeman, the convergence of the communist conspiracies to war on the West via feminism and same sex marriage destroying the family and secularism and now AGW, says all that needs to be said about the white race Christian politics of American 1% capitalism.

    I am not surprised that bible fundamentalists of the “patriotic” South bought into the anti-commie line, but I am when others do so simply because they also identify with the chauvinism involved – also being white and right wing in their politics. It is no wonder that rational thought about the science then becomes a problem.

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  104. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, when will the free market capitalists actually propose any ideas?

    That first presumes of course that a carbon tax on tradeable goods (or ETS including domestic, that China and India will not accept) and investment in new tech development and transfer to third world nations of renewable energy production are all socialist ideas.

    As to why they do not offer any ideas, maybe the right sees its only contributions being – invest in climate change denial and labelling any measures proposed as socialist? Is the presumption that any regulation of use is a restraint on short term profit? They do sound a bit like the bankers pre 2008.

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  105. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    The full range

    - the earth is not warming
    - it is, but the causes are not largely caused by us
    - who cares, what is causing it, rejoice.

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  106. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    SPC, why do you think rich countries should give money to poorer third world ones? And was has that got to do with climate science and AGW ?

    There is no “invest in climate change denial”. There is clearly no money in that. Being a climate change promoter is a multi trillion dollar global industry. That is where the money is at.

    Inspite of what Griff tells us, oil companies make money from……………. OIL ! the AGW alarmists only source of income is the AGW hoax.

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  107. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    SPC you notice when you corner the nutters on one line of reasoning they change to another as it suits them.
    No matter how many times you disprove something the nutters will still trot it out at a later date.

    The classic is the climate gate emails
    eight separate reviews found no fault yet its still trotted out as some sot of prof of wrong doing.

    Your connection of the conservonutters as the source of climate denial is spot on. Thicko god bothering nut jobs are the usual source of conspirawhaky ideas they go perfectly with the supernatural belief in sky pixies

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  108. Peter (1,471 comments) says:

    100

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  109. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, the scientists who do research work on AGW, would still be employed if not doing this research. They do not get a pay increase because more of their work is now on this topic. I think the use of the word trillion is solely relevant to your imagination.

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  110. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    “trillions”
    Look another baseless kea spurt
    how unusual :lol:

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  111. Viking2 (10,738 comments) says:

    Time all youse Global hotties fucked off out into the sun and did some real life reseach on our hotest day.
    Better than sitting inside all day wasting your time and electrons filling this page. :roll:

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  112. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, in the case of developing a global response we have to go beyond Kyoto.

    To include nations that we trade with in the developing world, the best way is to place a carbon tax on tradeable goods. They would claim that a global ETS system was unfair on nations that had yet to developp to first world level. This is a fair compromise – it introduces a market incentive to producers to use non carbon energy that applies on all equally when they compete in the global market.

    In the case of the third world, there is little engagement in the world trade economy except in resource trade and food and importing goods. They have little financial capability to develop renewable energy to reduce their dependence on a finite global resource. Thus require help to do what the global market would incentivise via a carbon tax on tradable goods for the rest of the world.

    Given we already give them help via World Bank loans for such development projects, why not fund this instead via a global carbon tax policy?

    And why is this Wth

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  113. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    And why is the aid to the third world uncalled for and the infinitely greater amount bailing out failed capitalism – banks and OECD nations requiring IMF bail outs somehow OK.

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  114. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Viking 2, my excuse is that being Celt, I burn like a vampire (my father died of skin cancer).

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  115. Viking2 (10,738 comments) says:

    and the rest. Well they are needed in Canterbury.
    Monday, January 07, 2013
    Yay! ZERO Unemployment in Canterbury

    was understaffed, and desperately needed night-shift cleaners and factory process workers

    a lot of them are now choosing which job they would rather do

    Canterbury big businesses report there are no New Zealanders willing to do the hard yards on menial jobs and are wanting some unskilled imports to manage traffic. Apparently there are only picky Aotearoans available. Another unintended but direct consequence of forcing a minimum wage into the free market.

    Yet, no doubt oodles of local unemployed continue to uplift ‘income’ from my taxpayers wallet. Why are these bludgers not given the stark choice ‘take the menial job on the overpriced miniumum wage’ or ‘no benefit’?

    Zero unemployment in the region. Yay! If not, why not?

    http://pmofnz.blogspot.co.nz/2013/01/yay-zero-unemployment-in-canterbury.html
    Posted by PM of NZ at 14:26

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  116. liarbors a joke (1,069 comments) says:

    Quick…ban all farm bikes..farmers to walk everywhere from now on and wrap them in hi viz cotton wool..

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  117. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    Everybody seems determined to come down on Quad bike riders like a ton of bricks yet strangely no one seems to dare comment on the issue of Hot Air Balloon Pilots getting baked on Cannabis and killing people.
    Is this because the ‘oh-so fashionable’ myth (popular in the left wing media) that Cannabis is a harmless drug?
    If the guy was drunk everybody would be screaming blue murder…

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  118. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Viking 2, they won’t get people moving in to do the low wage jobs because of the problem with housing shortage and rising rent cost.

    Those there now on benefits cannot do nightshift work if they are sole parents with children.

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  119. kowtow (6,723 comments) says:

    yep that unemployment thingy is real strange

    All over the western world economies are importing foreigners to do work the locals once did but refuse to.
    There are gangs of Islanders here on contract picking fruit ,tending vines etc…..remind me ,we’re at full employment and so this is necessary!

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  120. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    8 hours on the car today, but if I’d known griff was so intent on making a fool of himself I’d have pulled over and joined the fun. Next time.

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  121. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    er, 8 hours in that car :)

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  122. wat dabney (3,464 comments) says:

    The UK Met Office has an unenviable record of failed predictions

    Stop Press: “Major change in UK Met Office global warming forecast

    This is really quite amazing. The Met Office – prominent cheerleader for global warming alarmism – has (very quietly) completely scrapped its prediction of warming and is now predicting flat temperatures for the next decade.

    Look at the old and the new charts together (lower down the page someone has created a blink gif overlay.) The difference is staggering.

    http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/major-change-in-uk-met-office-global-warming-forecast/

    The Met Office has tacitly conceded that the sceptics are correct.

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  123. krazykiwi (9,188 comments) says:

    Wat – not very credible those Met Office folks. On 23rd March 2012, they predicted “The forecast for average UK rainfall slightly favours drier than average conditions for April/May/June as a whole, and also slightly favours April being the driest of the 3 months.”

    What actually happened? Well rainfall totals were 176%, 95% and 203% of normal in April, May and June respectively :D

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  124. Manolo (12,641 comments) says:

    Yes, Griff. You’re right: continue supporting the Green Party and Gaia will heal in no time at all.

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  125. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    kowtow, the problem with having domestic workers doing seasonal work is that there is not the work in these regions the rest of the year. Thus requires unemploymed the rest of the year between seasons. Bringing in unemployed workers from outside the region is not useful as these people don’t come back when they find work elsewhere. The only way to have a skilled, fit enough experienced group year in year out (thse people get the harvest done in faster and more productively than newbies) doing the work is to use foreigners. The money is more than their annual wage locally, so they will always be willing to return. Employers prefer them and it is understandable why.

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  126. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Two more nutters :lol:

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  127. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Longknives, those farmers have much to answer for. They are part of BIG AGRI BUSINESS and are killing the planet. They burn FOSSIL FUEL in those quad bikes and their cow farts release GREENHOUSE GAS. This is murdering the planet.

    (Strangely, the million of animals roaming the African plains cause no such concern from the AGW cult.)

    Dear oh dear Griff :)

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  128. Don the Kiwi (1,341 comments) says:

    Two more nutters </b?

    The most revealing self denunciation. :lol:

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  129. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, we have over 30 M animals locally. The major problem is the transition from sheep to dairying and the related impact on waterways. Part of this is due to land value and the consequent need for higher stock levels.

    Whether the methane release from sheep, cattle and dairying is here or where the prodict is consumed makes little difference.

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  130. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    I can not imagine how is must affect ones thinking to start each day believing that the world is ending and it is due to the evil of your fellow man. It must be hell for them.

    It is little wonder that Griff and his cult are becoming increasingly marginalised and mocked with that outlook on life. Governments are refusing to play along (for political gain) in the world biggest countries as the population wakes up to the truth. It is a sorry chapter in human history, but it is refreshing to see so many are seeing through it.

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  131. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Yes kea as the world slowly warms the cult as you so stupidly call it is expanding
    on the side of the cult are all major scientific bodies in the western world
    the cult kea is usually called science

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  132. nasska (9,549 comments) says:

    One day a guy died and found himself in hell. As he was wallowing in
    despair, he had his first meeting with a demon.

    The demon asked, “Why so glum?”
    The guy responded, “What do you think? I’m in hell!”

    “Hell’s not so bad,” the demon said. “We actually have a lot of fun
    down here. You a drinking man?”
    “Sure,” the man said, “I love to drink.”
    “Well you’re gonna love Mondays then. On Mondays all we do is drink.
    Whiskey, tequila, Guinness, wine coolers, diet Tab and beer. We
    drink till we throw up and then we drink some more!”
    The guy is astounded. “Damn, that sounds great.”
    “You a smoker?” the demon asked.
    “You better believe it!”
    “You’re gonna love Tuesdays. We get the finest cigars from all over
    the world and smoke our lungs out. If you get cancer, no biggie. You’re already dead, remember?”
    “Wow, the guy said, “that’s awesome!”
    The demon continued. “I bet you like to gamble.”
    “Why yes, as a matter of fact I do.”
    “Wednesdays you can gamble all you want. Craps, blackjack, roulette,
    poker, slots, whatever. If you go bankrupt, well, you’re dead anyhow. You into drugs?”
    The guy said, “Are you kidding? I love drugs! You don’t mean . . .”
    “That’s right! Thursday is drug day. Help yourself to a great big bowl
    of crack, or smack. Smoke a joint the size of a submarine. You can do all the drugs you want, you’re dead, who cares!”
    “Wow,” the guy said, starting to feel better about his situation, “I
    never realized Hell was such a cool place!”

    The demon said, “You gay?”
    “No.”
    “Ooooh, you’re gonna hate Fridays!”

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  133. Manolo (12,641 comments) says:

    Griff marginalised? No, it cannot be.

    He’s only a gullible believer of the tripe dispensed by the Green Party and he’s doing his job as defender of Gaia. Honestly, he’s sincere and whiter than white.

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  134. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, two thoughts come to mind

    1. it is somewhat wise to learn from the past. For example someone in 2000 wrote a book called The End of History.

    2. and once again the term pot kettle black comes to mind, those who thought Kyoto et al was of an evil attempt to bring down the western world, now feel smug enough to declare victory and make light of those who they felt threatened their world.

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  135. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    nasska, is that some sort of joke about drinking on Mondays leading to having to submit to line up in rows and offering ones rear to a view from a higher place on Fridays?

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  136. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Yes kea as the world slowly warms the cult as you so stupidly call it is expanding
    on the side of the cult are all major scientific bodies in the western world
    the cult kea is usually called science

    The “western world” is about 11% of the world. Of that minority a minority believe in AGW and of that minority a few are scientists. Only some scientists promote it. (they are all getting paid to)

    Far more people are Muslim and believe in god Griff. Far more Muslims have studied theology and are qualified in that area.

    Are you a God believing Muslim Griff ? If not WHY ?

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  137. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, the average Moslem has not studied theology, they only know the Koran.

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  138. nasska (9,549 comments) says:

    SPC

    I was just trying to explain to some of our fellow commenters what joy awaits them. :)

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  139. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    So you were posting on the right thread then.

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  140. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    nasska, I suppose the form of nakedness available as punishment for drinking, is not once first choice. That explains why some people wake up besides those they do after a bender.

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  141. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Kea, the average Moslem has not studied theology, they only know the Koran.

    SPC, how many AGW believers have studied “climate science” ?

    They are not “scientists” anyway. They are weather men and are famous for not being able to predict anything accurately. Interestingly TV weather men who have spoken out about AGW have lost their job. This includes those with suitable academic background to evaluate the data.

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  142. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    Kea, one scientist who did speak to the media lost their givernment job (Salinger). I suppose it stopped being PC when National became goernment.

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  143. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    kea

    How many more unsupported comments are you going to make today ?

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  144. wreck1080 (3,529 comments) says:

    Boom , here comes a good reason to connect to UFB (if you have time that is)…..

    http://gizmodo.com/5973634/nvidia-just-built-its-own-gaming-supercomputer-the-grid

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  145. nasska (9,549 comments) says:

    Say what you like about Muslim women, they make brilliant bee keepers.

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  146. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    nasska, only those who are prepared carry the family tent each summer.

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  147. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Griffy, time for you to smoke a joint and tuck Moonbeam & Aquarius into bed.

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  148. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    Oh Fuck. I’ve got laughter spasms. Which is just great given I’ve tucked everyone else into bed; it’s just me and the Sambuca bottle and I don’t drink a shitload on weekdays.
    Muslim Women, beekeepers. Spurghh.ghhh. Holds sides.
    Nigh nigh, Moonbeam and Aquarius.

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  149. wat dabney (3,464 comments) says:

    not very credible those Met Office folks

    The point is that they have right up till now been up to their necks in the global warming bullshit: The archetypal establishment propaganda machine spewing out AGW misinformation.

    They have now jettisoned that position and performed a complete 180.

    Their new predictions conform entirely to the sceptics’ appreciation of the evidence and the science.

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  150. Dotcom (1,386 comments) says:

    You’ll all be pleased to know that I seem to have broken the Bain threads after 6326 posts on 12 threads since 1 December (this is not a guess, it is an exact count).

    p.s. If you go over to look, could you please let sleeping dogs .. ..

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  151. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Max Keiser Report
    They hit 250,000 LIKES tonight!! WOW! There is no doubt that Humanity is Awakening, walking out of Plato’s Cave, and realizing that psychopaths are in control of the planet. That a fraudulent run-for-profit private federal reserve (established in 1913) owned by “Old Money” Saxe-Coburg and Gotha / Rothschild banking dynasty is amassing wealth, creating conflicts, funding both sides of wars, fraudulently waging financial espionage worldwide. Managing and growing governments, enacting more laws, filling prisons, raising taxes, monopolizing the major media, mastering divide and conquer methods, enacting covert population reduction tactics (i.e. GMO, pharmaceutical crops, spraying of the skies with heavy metals, the fluorosilicic acid put in the water supply for DECADES is filled with Lead, Arsenic, Mercury, etc), building a sophisticated technologic control grid with face-scanning, getting biometric Id’s and heat resonance “Finger prints” at airports.

    Take the time to understand the grand illusions and agenda set before us and reverse the scourge that is referred to by elite cockroaches as the New World Order in their statues around the world and in speeches. Which is not order at all, but rather dehumanization, death, and deception.

    Death to the New World Order. Truth To Power. Freedom to Mankind.

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  152. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    look wat wat is making up bullshit just like kea
    are they having sex as well?

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  153. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Griff, do try and keep it civil please. Remember Karma and Gaia are all linked. Maybe another joint will help :)

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  154. Dotcom (1,386 comments) says:

    Sorry, they’re away again. Make that 6329 .. and counting.

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  155. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    hinamanu, that is some heavy stuff you have made us aware of. It will totally freak Griff out. He has lost it over the prospect of the temperature going up half a degree ! That will really do his head in.

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  156. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    kea i am beginning to think that you must be on drugs your habit of just making stuff up is rather weird
    Still reality and climate denial nutters are not a good match look at Wat wat He makes up stuff all the time

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  157. axeman (250 comments) says:

    Hey guys. Get ready for the ensuing rage to emanate from the resident CAGW cultist. “Grief’s” frothing at the mouth would be a sight to behold :-)

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/06/the-logical-case-against-climate-panic/

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  158. axeman (250 comments) says:

    Even the Germans are sick of your bullshit gwiff.

    http://notrickszone.com/2013/01/05/barometer-for-measuring-german-public-interest-in-climate-protection-sets-record-low/

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  159. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Hey guys. Get ready for the ensuing rage to emanate from the resident CAGW cultist. “Grief’s” frothing at the mouth would be a sight to behold

    Excellent article axeman. I will make sure Griff gets to read it. I will feed him small amounts of truth at a time, until he gets used to the taste.

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  160. Left Right and Centre (2,397 comments) says:

    SPC… this isn’t very scientific but I tend to start shaving IQ points off my estimation of people who say ‘pot, kettle, black’. It’s not much better than popular working class catchphrases such as ‘get over it’, ‘get over yourself’, ‘shit happens’, ‘sweet as’.

    Pot calling the kettle black. I actually find that easier to type. It’s got a flow to it. Oh, that’s another one: ‘go with the flow’. FAAAAAAARK!!!!!! The people who ‘go with the flow’ are generally too thick to do otherwise. Only dead fish go with the flow.

    Just my observations of society. Shit happens. Get over it. Sweet as.

    You don’t see this one much though: People, glasshouses, stones. Maybe we can be trendsetters on Kiwiblog with that one?

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  161. Left Right and Centre (2,397 comments) says:

    I doubt that any of the pricks on here who argue either for or against man-created climate change are suitably qualified to really know anything. Even people who are…. it’s not a settled issue. it’s not like… tectonic plates or the basic idea of evolution. This one is still going.

    SPC… again… pot kettle black… well if you’re one of those ‘got to be right about every aspect of everything’ kind of people… it’s really a phrase or idiom not a term. Term: Term (language) or terminology, a noun or compound word used in a specific context: meaning. That’s from our good mate Wiki but it’s ok for a lot of things. ‘Pot kettle black’ is something you might hear on your typical moronic US TV programme… usually spoken in a suitably dumbarse voice by a dumbarse character. That’s what I’ve got against it. And then… fucking kiwis immitate every last bit of bullshit they hear on American TV instantly. Monkey see, monkey do. Aaaaaaargghh!! NZ should just become a state of the US and be done with it. I can’t stand the fucking about mean time. There’s nothing wrong with a poor quality knock-off version, eh? That’s what a lot of kiwis are now. Knock-off American wannabe try-hards.

    Well.. I’m still saying lift not elevator, footpath or pavement not sidewalk. America can kiss my arse, not ass.

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  162. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    L, R and C, I was noting that the argument line I was responding to had already been made ad nauseum in America, to be used as sound-bite lines in discussion of this topic. Thus the usage was appropriate in that context.

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  163. SPC (4,675 comments) says:

    An interesting Russian perspective I found on the whatsupwiththat.com link axeman put up.

    http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/04-01-2013/123380-global_warming-0/

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  164. Left Right and Centre (2,397 comments) says:

    Kea, nasska, kowtow and manolo… seem like good bastards with a sly sense of humour… icing on the cake.

    Love your work people….

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  165. Manolo (12,641 comments) says:

    LR&C, I’m just having fun at the expense of a foolish socialist warmist who blindly follows orders from comrade Norman and the Green Party, and who is happy to believe in fairy tales, e.g., AGW.

    If that is being a good bastard, I’m happy with the label. :-)

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  166. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    axeman (90) Says:
    January 7th, 2013 at 11:09 pm

    Hey guys. Get ready for the ensuing rage to emanate from the resident CAGW cultist. “Grief’s” frothing at the mouth would be a sight to behold :-)

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/06/the-logical-case-against-climate-panic/

    :lol: :lol:
    rrofl
    The guy is a known nutter who lies like watwat on a bad day
    the really funny thing is you noodles take such a moon bats opinion as gospel
    You will all be able to go see him later this year the kiwi nutters are bringing him out again
    Monckton of Brenchley try googling him :lol:
    this is my favorite note who it is from
    http://www.parliament.uk/business/news/2011/july/letter-to-viscount-monckton/
    Dear Lord Monckton

    My predecessor, Sir Michael Pownall, wrote to you on 21 July 2010, and again on 30 July 2010, asking that you cease claiming to be a Member of the House of Lords, either directly or by implication. It has been drawn to my attention that you continue to make such claims.

    In particular, I have listened to your recent interview with Mr Adam Spencer on Australian radio. In response to the direct question, whether or not you were a Member of the House of Lords, you said “Yes, but without the right to sit or vote”. You later repeated, “I am a Member of the House”.

    I must repeat my predecessor’s statement that you are not and have never been a Member of the House of Lords. Your assertion that you are a Member, but without the right to sit or vote, is a contradiction in terms. No-one denies that you are, by virtue of your letters Patent, a Peer. That is an entirely separate issue to membership of the House. This is borne out by the recent judgment in Baron Mereworth v Ministry of Justice (Crown Office) where Mr Justice Lewison stated:

    “In my judgment, the reference [in the House of Lords Act 1999] to ‘a member of the House of Lords’ is simply a reference to the right to sit and vote in that House … In a nutshell, membership of the House of Lords means the right to sit and vote in that House. It does not mean entitlement to the dignity of a peerage.”

    I must therefore again ask that you desist from claiming to be a Member of the House of Lords, either directly or by implication, and also that you desist from claiming to be a Member “without the right to sit or vote”.

    I am publishing this letter on the parliamentary website so that anybody who wishes to check whether you are a Member of the House of Lords can view this official confirmation that you are not.

    David Beamish
    Clerk of the Parliaments

    15 July 2011

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  167. Manolo (12,641 comments) says:

    Go for it, Griff. Now gives us the good word about your idol and leader, comrade Norman.

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  168. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    go for it manolo keep trying to make it a political not scientific question
    I am a ex act voter who is as far right as any one on kb
    just the little point that I actually understand science and are not easily mislead by nutters like you denial weirdos

    Lord Monckton :lol:
    :lol:

    fuck me the gullibility of you nutters has me cracking up:lord moonbat monckton :lol:
    Is he the leader of your cult? are you all members of the house of lords? :lol:
    Do you know he has a cure for all infectious disease no wounder he is your hero

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