The scale of the women problem in India

January 4th, 2013 at 1:02 pm by David Farrar

Nevil Gibson writes in NBR:

New research by economists Siwan Anderson and Debraj Ray estimates that in , more than 2m are missing in a given year.

The economists found that roughly 12% of the missing women disappear at birth, 25% die in childhood, 18% at the reproductive ages, and 45% at older ages.

They found that women died more from “injuries” in a given year than while giving birth – injuries, they say, “appear to be indicator of violence against women.”

Deaths from fire-related incidents, they say, is a major cause – each year more than 100,000 women are killed by fires in India. The researchers say many cases could be linked to demands over a dowry leading to women being set on fire. Research also found a large number of women died of heart diseases.

These findings point to life-long neglect of women in India.

The scale of the abuse is simply staggering. If you adjusted for the respective population sizes, that would be like 20,000 women a year just going missing in NZ. it would be 500 women a year being killed by fires.

It sounds like this gang rape murder may be the catalyst that leads to actual significant change. Let’s hope so.

 

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35 Responses to “The scale of the women problem in India”

  1. Ryan Sproull (7,101 comments) says:

    Appalling.

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  2. Kea (12,411 comments) says:

    Yawn……… how many men are killed/missing/injured/sold as slaves/forced into prostitution ?

    Sure things are tough for women, but it is tough for many others too. To get it into perspective, we need the stats for men to compare.

    Unless you advocate for improving the treatment of ALL people, you are leaving behind around half the population, based on gender.

    I am not convinced Siwan Anderson and Debraj Ray, give a shit about people. They simply want to inflict socialist feminist doctrine on India. I am not buying it.

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  3. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    I don’t think the gang-rape will change anything.
    The problems are far too ingrained and long-standing for that.
    However, I’d love to be proven wrong.

    I think that India (and for that matter, China) are in for some MASSIVE social unrest in the future if the “women imbalance” isn’t addressed.

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  4. PaulL (5,971 comments) says:

    Kea, I think you’re losing perspective a little.

    I’d be happy if we said “the number of people who are raped in India is a disgrace” or “the number of people who are forced into prostitution is a disgrace” or “the number of people who are killed due to insufficient dowry”. Thing is, if you do the numbers, I bet you’ll find about 95% of those people are women. The underlying problem is treatment of women, not treatment of people in general.

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  5. Kea (12,411 comments) says:

    I’d be happy if we said “the number of people who are raped in India is a disgrace” or “the number of people who are forced into prostitution is a disgrace”

    PaulL, you started off ok, but then this:

    The underlying problem is treatment of women, not treatment of people in general.

    Yeah the problem IS the treatment of people in general. If you subject people to harsh treatment, then they are more likely to treat others in a similar way. Why are you only concerned about women ? Why do boys being sold into prostitution and slavery not bother you?

    I bet you’ll find about 95% of those people are women

    Anything to back that 95% claim up ? I call bullshit on that.

    Spare me the feminist narritive. All countries that treat women harshly, also treat men harshly. The people making a fuss are not concerned about HUMAN rights, but are only out to paint women as a special victim group, so they can advance a wider socialist agenda. Just look at the dreadful state of affairs in NZ, where the same thing was done.

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  6. emmess (1,427 comments) says:

    I think that India (and for that matter, China) are in for some MASSIVE social unrest in the future if the “women imbalance” isn’t addressed.

    As they get richer, it will become increasing affordable for men in China and India to import women from poorer countries, who will in turn import women from even poorer countries. Eventually, the shortages of women and the resulting problems will all be heaped on the poorest countries in Africa.

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  7. kowtow (8,324 comments) says:

    Much is made in the anti western western MSM about the rise of India and China. It’s more of a wish on their part and all this is evidence that these “powers” have a very long way to go.

    Mind you our progressive politicians who are constsntly bleating on about “equality” are doing their level best to bring us down to third world status.

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  8. Kea (12,411 comments) says:

    Things are changing rapidly in China. Anyone who thinks Chinese women are meek and obedient, has clearly never been in a relationship with one. They are demanding, strict, structured and have a very clear idea of what they expect from you. And you had better deliver it !

    China is a tough competitive place and the women are a product of that society. They do not have the social safety nets in Asia that we have here (spot the real socialists). They are way tougher and smarter than your average Kiwi girl. Stereotypes to the contrary are the result of ignorance (and jealousy from our resident harpies.)

    Yeah I know I am generalising. But that makes me “generally” right. ;)

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  9. questions (198 comments) says:

    I don’t know who is worse, DPF or the people in reply…

    For a starter the title, women being abused by men is a man problem, not a woman problem…

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  10. Lucia Maria (2,309 comments) says:

    Wow, Kea, I wouldn’t worry about feminism taking hold in India just yet. They have to stop killing babies, unborn and born, just for being girls first, which stems back to dowries, even though they are now illegal. There’s already a massive gender imbalance in India that is getting worse, making it even tougher for women (and men and probably increasing prostitution of both sexes), with them being forced into wife sharing, now.

    When Munni arrived in this fertile, sugarcane-growing region of north India as a young bride years ago, little did she imagine she would be forced into having sex and bearing children with her husband’s two brothers who had failed to find wives.

    ‘My husband and his parents said I had to share myself with his brothers,’ said the woman in her mid-40s, dressed in a yellow sari, sitting in a village community centre in Baghpat district in the northern state of Uttar Pradesh.

    ‘They took me whenever they wanted – day or night. When I resisted, they beat me with anything at hand,’ said Munni, who had managed to leave her home after three months only on the pretext of visiting a doctor.

    ‘Sometimes they threw me out and made me sleep outside or they poured kerosene over me and burned me.’

    Such cases are rarely reported to police because women in these communities are seldom allowed outside the home unaccompanied, and the crimes carry deep stigma for the victims. So there may be many more women like Munni in the mud-hut villages of the area.

    Munni, who has three sons from her husband and his brothers, has not filed a police complaint either.

    Social workers say decades of aborting female babies in a deeply patriarchal culture has led to a decline in the population of women in some parts of India, like Baghpat, and in turn has resulted in rising incidents of rape, human trafficking and the emergence of ‘wife-sharing’ among brothers.

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  11. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    Kea

    The good fortune of women in China probably owes more to the supply & demand factor. The one child policy means that men who don’t shape up as marriage material have a good chance of dying as virgins. According to some article I was reading a while back, if you didn’t own your own apartment things were not looking good in the marriage stakes.

    When you poach one of their women it means that some poor bugger will be doomed to a life of inflatable sex partners, callouses & fading eyesight. Hang your head in shame! :)

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  12. Lucia Maria (2,309 comments) says:

    The trailer for, It’s a Girl, which are the three deadliest words in the world.

    [youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISme5-9orR0&w=640&h=360

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  13. Lucia Maria (2,309 comments) says:

    Ok, my attempt to embed, which always works on my blog, didn’t work here. Since I can’t edit the post, here’s the direct link: It’s a girl. Just over 3 minutes long.

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  14. Kea (12,411 comments) says:

    Lucia Maria, yeah life tough there for EVERYONE involved.

    I could sit here cut n’ pasting stories about abuse of men and boys, but I think I have made my point.

    If the standard is raised for ALL people, these problems will become less of an issue. It simply will not work to target the rights of one gender and leave the other gender behind. Try and sell that idea to the Indian men and see how that works.

    Women are not a special victim group. No amount of screaching from feminist shills will change that fact. The modern feminist is not driven by concern for women, but by hatred of men. They are a destructive and evil force. I am tired of listening to their doctrine of hate being supported by broken spineless kiwi men. Don’t think for a moment that the men of India or Saudi Arabia want to replicate our society there. You will also find the women don’t want that either.

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  15. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    I bet the people who go on and on and on about the ‘religion of peace’ are extremely frustrated they can’t blame this on that. I’m surprised one or more hasn’t yet tried to, quite frankly. Perhaps it’s a bridge too far, even for their flawed logic circuits.

    But possibly this “inexplicable” phenomena might make some of them start slowly realising it’s mostly cultural factors at play which provokes crimes like this, not religion.

    But I won’t hold my breath. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if one or two of them try to tell us it really was about religion after all because look what the Ko’ran says about it…

    I read yesterday the rapists apparently were from the slums. Given the victim was a med grad I wonder therefore if this was a reverse caste thing, in which case in normal circumstances I would have expected to see retaliation against women from the caste of the rapists, but I doubt that will happen now, this outcry has changed the nature of this tragic event. Let’s hope permanent change arises herefrom.

    Much is made in the anti western western MSM about the rise of India and China. It’s more of a wish on their part and all this is evidence that these “powers” have a very long way to go.

    kowtow is this really is your opinion of what has been happening economically, militarily, diplomatically and technologically in India and China over the last two decades, then I doubt you’d recognise “real” evidence even if it consisted of a gigantic fireworks display replete with flaming letters in the sky.

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  16. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    Reid

    The woeful treatment of women in both India & Pakistan may well be cultural but he execrable Islamic religion has enshrined the practise & made it part of their religion. Islam dictates & micro manages the behaviour of each of its adherents yet has proved totally resistant to change for 1400 years.

    Ergo even if it is not responsible in this instance it is in plenty of others.

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  17. Lucia Maria (2,309 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Lucia Maria, yeah life tough there for EVERYONE involved.

    I could sit here cut n’ pasting stories about abuse of men and boys, but I think I have made my point.

    Um, not really. The reality is, that if you are a boy, you are much more likely to survive to at least to be allowed to be born and not be smothered to death by a wet tea-towel by your mother. It’s far more dangerous to be a girl in India than it is to be a boy, no matter how shitty that boy’s life ends up.

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  18. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    The woeful treatment of women in both India & Pakistan may well be cultural but he execrable Islamic religion has enshrined the practise & made it part of their religion.

    nasska something non-religious people seem to find hard to understand or alternatively don’t even know exists, is the quid pro quo aspect of some religion’s requirements for women to submit to their husbands.

    The second you say that many idiots and fools immediately stop thinking and instead lapse into gibbering slobbering hysteria at the tewwible oppwession of it all and I fully expect a few dozen readers of this post just did that right now. You however have more brains than that so I’ll continue explaining because I know you’re still listening as opposed to rending your clothes and weeping and wailing like those other few dozen idiots are.

    What this means is that it’s a voluntary deal. The wife, despite what outside observers may hallucinate in their own tiny minds, voluntarily submits, IN RETURN FOR the husband performing his obligations. Both Christians and Muslims do this in the same way. And the husband’s OBLIGATIONS i.e. they are REQUIRED are not trivial, they include respecting the wife, paying homage to her, protecting her, providing for her needs and those of any children who she bears as a result of her VOLUNTARY submission.

    This is not always how it works out in reality, there are plenty of Christian marriages for example where the husband is a total arsehole, as in plenty of Muslim marriages. But this isn’t the religion’s fault, it’s the fault of the husband. Who is normally doing it NOT BECAUSE THE RELIGION TELLS HIM TO BUT BECAUSE HE’S BEEN BOUGHT UP TO BE AN ARSEHOLE BY HIS CULTURE, HIS UPBRINGING, HIS HILL TRIBE FAMILY WHICH HAS DONE THIS TO THE LOCAL WOMEN FOR A HUNDRED GENERATIONS.

    Western idiots both men and women who’ve all been brainwashed by feminism of course think all of this is a denial of human wights, but it’s not. Remember Islam started in 600 AD and Christianity a little before that. Both of them accurately reflect human nature, which is that a man and a woman are made differently and therefore actualise: i.e. reach their human potential in different ways. Women believe it or not actualise themselves through sacrifice for their family, men actualise themselves through providing [also a form of sacrifice] for their family. This is human nature, DNA, like it or not.

    Feminism doesn’t as we know, like this, and they have succeeded since the 60’s in pulling massive sets of blinkers over almost every single westerners eyes on this topic.

    Consequently these days we’ve got in western society heaps of desperately unhappy men and women, as men turn away from aggressive women who’ve been taught that to be successful they need to act like men and be heavy drinkers, sluts and whores and have one-night stands and no family because that interferes with their “careers.”

    As I’ve said before, even if you have read a few passages from a Holy Book, this doesn’t mean you understand what makes a person of that religion tick. Human nature interposes heavily in this equation and in real life, as opposed to the fantasy where the fucking ragheads are responsible for all the ills of this world, the dreadful things which happen in the name of religion, are usually a result of the human nature/upbringing/life experience side of the equation, and not a result of what some book says, in a few passages which some people have cherry picked in a desperate attempt to find evidence which justifies their own predetermined misconception.

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  19. Andrei (2,570 comments) says:

    These findings point to life-long neglect of women in India.

    There are lots of neglected people in India, its not only a female thing to be neglected.

    There are quite a few in New Zealand as well.

    As is well documented female babies are aborted in very large numbers in both India and China – these whining women don’t want to go there because to silly libbies abortion is a sacred thing.

    Oh the horrors of this world never cease

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  20. nasska (11,277 comments) says:

    Reid

    Much of your comment makes sense. I accept that both Islam & Christianity share a genesis in the tribal societies of the Middle East of 15/20 centuries past. Where I differ is that I consider that healthy societies adapt to circumstances…..Christianity has moved gradually with the times but Islam is stuck in a time warp. Surely you accept that a Muslim driving the latest Jap car & talking on his cellphone in air conditioned comfort has adapted somewhat to a changing world. Why then do we have to show tolerance for his inability to alter his familial attitudes from those practised by his far distant ancestors?

    Our ideas of voluntary submission & the overbearing pressure imposed by Islamic society to conform are not totally in sync. This will be because I believe in individual liberty first & that the mores of society should take second place. We each are given one life & one life only & therefore I stand by my suggestion that where religion legitimises inhuman cultural practise it debases itself.

    You are on firmer ground over feminism. I share your & “Kea’s” view that the feminists’ quest for equality has produced discontent & unhappiness as opposed to what was first envisaged. This is largely because the movement has been hijacked by social engineers & rabid socialists who see it as another vehicle to bring down western society.

    One point that may be worthy of consideration is that a pendulum moves between extremes. Rather than blow up the clock we should expect a move back to the middle ground & common sense, perhaps not in the too distant future.

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  21. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    nasska – that’s an eminently sensible comment. Now, It’s after 7:30. The GD thread awaits your round of jokes :)

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  22. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Why then do we have to show tolerance for his inability to alter his familial attitudes from those practised by his far distant ancestors?

    I’m not suggesting we should tolerate it nasska, I’m saying find the truth, whatever it is and sheet the blame home to where it really lies. I’ll give you an intellectual exercise. Have a look at the life of women in Saudi Arabia, a muslim county, and compare it to the lives of women in Iran, also a muslim country. And don’t do it so you find extremes, find the middle roads of women in both those countries. If you do that you’ll find that Iran, despite their reputation in the western media, is far more enlightened than SA. This is not because SA people are more pious than Iranians, quite the opposite is in fact the case. It’s because of the respective heritage and culture of those two nations. This may be because Saudis historically came from primitive nomadic goat-herders whereas Iranians historically came from Muslim scholars and artists.

    You are on firmer ground over feminism. I share your & “Kea’s” view that the feminists’ quest for equality has produced discontent & unhappiness as opposed to what was first envisaged.

    Mate feminism is there by design, there is nothing accidental about it. The only accidents are those committed by the ignorant academic fools in the classrooms and the universities who are so wrapped up in the twagedy of the whole human condition that they have bought into the ‘human wights’ meme and willingly act as pawns in the entirely evil and wicked game, unbeknownst to them for if they knew what they were really doing, they’d be horrified. But that’s why they’re called “useful idiots.”

    One point that may be worthy of consideration is that a pendulum moves between extremes. Rather than blow up the clock we should expect a move back to the middle ground & common sense, perhaps not in the too distant future.

    I’d like to think that might happen so nasska but when you look at the traction gained amongst all the profoundly mental useless idiot morons in the latest feminist manoeuvre on gay marriage which is the exact same evil as outlined above, I don’t hold my breath. One thing you need to realise, is that a pendulum only operates when it’s free to move back and forth. Feminism is not a natural movement, where a pendulous action would otherwise operation, it’s a designed movement, generated and engineered by people with an agenda, and until those bastards are stopped by people waking up to what’s been happening around them, it won’t stop. Ever. And so far, far from it slowing, it just gets faster and stronger, as more and more and more useless idiot moron fools join the braying bandwagon.

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  23. tvb (4,364 comments) says:

    I do not know whether Indians are culturally hostile towards women. Needless to say it would becavrelevant factor in assessing whether they can enter into NZ. Hostility towards women has no place in NZ.

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  24. adam2314 (377 comments) says:

    We import people from there .. With exactly the same thinking.. With the same results..

    That is a truth.. Some one has to say it..

    Do we really need these ” Qualified ” .. Check out Operators.. Service Station Attendants.. Cleaners… Taxi Drivers..
    Hamburger Flippers.. etc.. etc..

    When we have so many un-employed people here ?? ..

    And yes… Even they are on the un-employed list..

    Just stating facts…

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  25. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    I do not know whether Indians are culturally hostile towards women.

    In my profound ignorance about Indians tvb I would suggest it’s both cultural and caste. Caste is essentially racism and where you have racism, sexism normally isn’t too far behind.

    On a side note it’s interesting isn’t it that the UN and the [Western] world, couldn’t stand racism when it was expressed by white South Africans (except for Israel of course, they were great mates with SA) but they apparently and evidently without doubt and to this very day, have no problems at all with the Indian’s “apartheid” (a.k.a. caste) system. (Nor with Israel’s apparently. Goyim, anyone?)

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  26. adam2314 (377 comments) says:

    ” Caste is essentially racism “..

    Caste is classic BULLYING.. Nothing to do with racism.. England has a Class system of the same people..

    Kiwi’s on their OE are accepted because they will not be BULLIED.. Basically they are ( or were ) the same race.

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  27. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Caste is classic BULLYING.. Nothing to do with racism.. England has a Class system of the same people.

    So what is racism if not at essence, bullying? If there wasn’t any bullying, institutional or otherwise, who would care what people said to themselves in the privacy of their own minds?

    But it’s when you turn those thoughts into actions, that consequences result.

    And it’s those consequences which are the issue, not the adjective which is ascribed to it, whether that action be trivial like letting a toff jump a queue in a nightclub or giving a job to someone who you know is “reliable” even when there’s a better more qualified candidate who “didn’t go to the right school” or this rape, or anything else.

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  28. adam2314 (377 comments) says:

    Letting a ” Toff ” jump a queue, is being Bullied.. .. Fuck Off go back to the end of the Queue !!.. It is not trivial to the one that says it..

    And who is a TOFF ??.. Oxbridge accent ?? Fuck off..

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  29. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Nasska,
    You make good points..Anyone who is vaguely interested can google muslim men and gang rape and see that is is a very serious problem in many countries… Also that it is being downplayed in some. Sorry Reid mate I am not hanging about to read your response..I have things to do..I don’t see much point in hashing on with someone whose views are as unlikely to change as my own are.
    Happy New Year everyone.

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  30. adam2314 (377 comments) says:

    Reid… Have to ask this question. Are you a public servant ??…

    Or..

    Do you work for, or in any way a supplying company ?? To any Gvmt. department.. Central or otherwise .. ??

    Your extended verbosity leads me to suspect you do..

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  31. Reid (16,290 comments) says:

    Anyone who is vaguely interested can google muslim men and gang rape and see that is is a very serious problem in many countries

    Anyone who is vaguely interested can also google western men and gang rape and see that it is a very serious problem in many countries as well.

    Case closed.

    Cogito Ergo Sum.

    Ipso Facto.

    So there.

    Nah. Nah. Nah.

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  32. Rodders (1,755 comments) says:

    I don’t see much point in hashing on with someone whose views are as unlikely to change as my own are

    Vintage NZ First.

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  33. cha (3,943 comments) says:

    Fuck, said it all before.

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/02/general_debate_24_february_2012.html#comment-937092

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  34. Left Right and Centre (2,971 comments) says:

    adam2314… g’day

    speaking of which…. I was in Wellington CBD filling up very early one morning…. tried talking to the Indian looking graveyard shift bloke at Z Featherston St…. tried and failed. He spoke English but… he had no idea what I was saying. Got a lot of blank looks. They’re effectively like dealing with an ATM and that’s about it. That’s a global thing I know… not just NZ.

    Some immigrants come here and learn English really well. Like an ex g/f of mine. Who came from Russia in 1994 or so and even refused to speak Russian if the Russian person could speak English.

    They all want to come here… not many kiwis want to go where they came from to live forever though.

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  35. Left Right and Centre (2,971 comments) says:

    India has got problems for Africa… ha.

    Too many people… overpopulation.. like the rest of the planet.

    There’s not much to talk about…. that’s a steadily increasing billion plus mostly dirt poor people.

    More and more and more and more and more fucking people. You’ll notice that their resources don’t increase in kind. Genius!! You know… India doesn’t get more land area each year. What a bunch of brainboxes. India’s fairly well fucked. All of those people… they’re never going anywhere… there’s nothing for them… you couldn’t possibly hope to ever give them all the standard of living NZders enjoy. Logistically impossible… if you tried… you’d be forever playing catch-up with the population increase.

    Where will India’s population top out at? It can’t continue indefinitely. They’ll just continue breeding like animals until the carrying capacity of their habitat keeps their numbers in check. Breed to the point where resources run out and they can breed no more. Good one!!

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