General Debate 28 February 2013

February 28th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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201 Responses to “General Debate 28 February 2013”

  1. Lance (2,439 comments) says:

    On no, think of the poor snails.
    Pike River might become an open cast mine

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10868232

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  2. Elaycee (4,287 comments) says:

    Great news for petrol heads with the confirmation that all Australian V8Supercar races for the next 5 years will be shown live by Sky TV – starting with the live telecast of the Clipsal 500 from Adelaide this weekend.

    This is excellent news, as it means we will no longer have to endure the crap served up by TV3 and passed off as motorsport coverage. In particular, this move to Sky means there will no longer be a stream of cringe worthy, ill informed comments from the motor racing wannabe Shaun Summerfield. Indeed, Summerfield has been to televised motorsport what Eddie the Eagle has been to the medal winners list at the Winter Olympics. Eddie didn’t make it either.

    And for the interested viewer, this move to Sky means there’ll be no more captions on screen claiming ‘live’ racing when patently much of it is not live at all. No more breaking away from the Bathurst telecast for ‘TV3 News’ when the biggest tin top race in Australasia is reaching the pointy end and someone is rapidly closing in on the lead. No more races shown at 11pm Sunday night. And the list goes on…..

    Yup, this is excellent news all round. :D

    http://www.skysport.co.nz/article/motorsport/headlines/sky-tv-announces-five-year-v8-supercars-deal-63788/

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  3. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    Some more thoughts on the Changes to the Redef. Marriage Bill. Not sure Bob McC is right on some of this.

    http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/02/27/thoughts-redefinition-of-marriage-bill-changes

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  4. Judith (7,466 comments) says:

    Elaycee (3,330) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 8:26 am
    ——————————-

    Excellent news and about time. The TV3 coverage was shocking.

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  5. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    Lance,the open cast snails article says it all.

    Labour ,who proudly proclaim their roots in the industrial mining on the West Coast ,now oppose it.
    It shows that Labour is not the party of the working man but the party of middle class academics,so called intellectuals,chardonnay socialists and a misfit of homosexual ,ethnic and environmentalist activists.

    Not a cloth cap in sight.

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  6. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    David,
    It was interesting to hear you speaking about your speech difficulties on National radio yesterday..It was great you could meet up with your therapist.
    Your concern re the separation of church and state seemed rather ironic in that the greatest threat world wide to the separation of religion and state is the advance of islam and its demands that we all be subject to sharia law. An islamic school in sth Australia is trying to force its non muslim female staff to wear hijabs. If they do not comply, they face the sack.

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  7. flipper (3,537 comments) says:

    Just 48 years and (almost) one month since my surf life saving buddy, Leslie Jordon, was tasken by a great white at St Clair. And that bastard Carter introduced regulations to protect them. Bet that poor Auckland family are not too keen on Carter’s regs.

    I will continue to regard them as rabid killers and deal accordingly. Carter’s dip shit regs can join him in New York where I hope he meets some great whites (at the UN).

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  8. WineOh (540 comments) says:

    To be fair, Labour has been relatively consistent in recent times about not mining in sensitive conservation areas and national parks. I would probably prefer they don’t mine in a national park too, but am in favour of what is best for the NZ economy and especially the folk of the West Coast.

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  9. ex-golfer (145 comments) says:

    Another day, another sob story: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8361477/Low-income-people-have-nowhere-to-go
    Somehow I don’t think that “Waitakere Man and Woman” will have much sympathy for this ex-criminal and his breeding partner.
    Crime doesn’t pay.
    And having more kids doesn’t fix the problem either.

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  10. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    The only successful separation of church and state, has been Stalin and Hitler. “separation” is a myth and relates to the recent assumption by secularists that they are the neutral default setting, when in fact religion has been man’s default setting for all history.

    Religion informs civil society, restrains excess, modifies carnality and evil, and helps the poor, weak, inform and helpless which secularism forgets.

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  11. flipper (3,537 comments) says:

    Why Real Men watch Fox News. :)

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  12. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Islam does not restrain excess or limit evil..It also does not do much for the poor..but then it is not a religion; rather it is an arab , male ,supremacist cult.

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  13. ex-golfer (145 comments) says:

    ex-golfer wonders if we can have just one GD without the marriage debate or climate change…………….obviously not.
    Thank God for the scroll key.

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  14. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    joana (1,637) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 8:41 am

    You cant say things like that – having a go at the muslims………its just not fair……

    Thats as bad as Prosser suggesting that theyre philosophical dinasours.

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  15. CHFR (216 comments) says:

    ex-golfer they are not getting alot of sympathy in the comments.

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  16. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    People who blame religion for all the world’s excesses, always brain-block the excesses of the non-religious fanatics (Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc). It’s not a religious problem its a HUMAN problem. About as smart as blaming “race” for anything.

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  17. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    Religion forms peoples morality, charity, empathy, compassion and care for one another by changing their hearts. And these qualities all go into building a Nation which is a better place to live.

    All secularists have is legislation and you cannot make people decent by forcing them to be good and decent with the heavy hand of the law. What you end up is with what we a getting a disunited, degenerate people who are at each others throats all the time.

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  18. Yvette (2,684 comments) says:

    An islamic school in Australia is trying to force its non muslim female staff to wear hijabs. If they do not comply, they face the sack.

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  19. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    All secularists have is legislation and you cannot make people decent by forcing them to be good and decent with the heavy hand of the law.

    You can not make them decent people by forcing religious law upon them either Andrei.

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  20. iMP (2,231 comments) says:

    Yvette, that will never happen. Aussie blokeness will descend on that school like a horde of Black Hawk helicopters and fix that aberration. In NZ however, the State will probably provide the hijabs, made in pakistan, of recyclaable sack.

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  21. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Islam does not restrain excess or limit evil..It also does not do much for the poor..but then it is not a religion; rather it is an arab , male ,supremacist cult.

    It is an old testament based religion and came from the same place as christianity and judaism. All are primitive desert cults from another time and another place.

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  22. Lance (2,439 comments) says:

    @Kea
    You are making sweeping and ignorant generalizations with fact free assertions.

    Apart from that sound reasoning.

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  23. Harriet (4,497 comments) says:

    “…..We consider that transgender people should be able to change sex
    without being subject to these constraints…..” – from the Marriage reform select committee report.

    You can’t swap your chromesones for the opposite sexe’s – as it is impossable. And that is what biologicly, is the differance between male and female. Other things of course are too, but it is a ‘chromesone test’ which legally defines you as male or female[ remember that African runner having to have one].

    Parliment will need to change this to ‘gender reconstruction’ instead of ‘sex change’.

    The government cannot put ‘male’ instead of ‘female’ on a drivers license, passport, Marriage licence etc, as the courts, police, customs, JP’s etc are legally bound to NOT accept what is KNOWN as an absolute lie for an absolute truth. It is of course for legal reasons: The rule of law.

    This will also create problems internationaly with the likes of interpol etc.

    How they missed that is fucken beyond me – from memory, it’s taught at form 1-2 level. What was the schools budget again? :cool:

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  24. Chthoniid (2,027 comments) says:

    Religion is an ancient and obsolete human attempt at discovery and explanation. We don’t need the values and explanations of the bronze-age to inform modern society. Most religions have already extinct. Xtianity is dying in the West. In no western secular country has this decline been reversed. Rather it is accelerating as those identifying as ‘not religious’ or ‘atheist’ have become the fastest growing demographic.

    Trying the mudslinging and fallacious tactic of conflating of secularism with Marxist totalitarianism isn’t going to avert this.

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  25. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    You can not make them decent people by forcing religious law upon them either Andrei.

    See that’s the thing you don’t understand about the Christian Faith, it is voluntary, that pesky free will thing. You are free to do whatever you want but there will be consequences for whatever your choices are.

    This is where it differs significantly from Islam which uses the law and dire punishments.

    Saudi Arabia has an Islamic Heritage

    New Zealand has a Christian Heritage

    Which one would you prefer to live in?

    Secularists by eliminating the Wests Christian Heritage are creating a vacuum for it to be replaced by an Islamic one

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  26. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    Ex golfer,redefining marriage / increased taxation climate change.

    The people advocating “equality” re marriage and those pushing climate change are a small group of radical activists (with many joining the band wagon out of self interest or ignorance).

    If you are happy to allow your society to be led by the nose ,with no debate (or even popular mandate) for major changes in our culture and way of life then perhaps you should return silently,passively to the golf course.

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  27. Harriet (4,497 comments) says:

    Here’s an example of how gay Marriage has demoted fathers in society!

    Status of Children Act 1969 (1969 No 18)
    In section 14(1), definition of partner, replace “husband” with
    “spouse” in each place.

    But no mention at all in that section of replacing ‘mother’ with spouse. That’s very unusual if we are to believe it is all about ‘equality’ – are men now being demoted?

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  28. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    joana (1,638) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 8:41 am

    …the greatest threat world wide to the separation of religion and state is the advance of islam and its demands that we all be subject to sharia law. An islamic school in sth Australia is trying to force its non muslim female staff to wear hijabs. If they do not comply, they face the sack.

    Not that I’m a fan of Sharia, but you are referring to an “Islamic school”. Why is it objectionable that they expect dress codes in line with their own standards? Would you object if a nudist teacher was fired from a public school because the teacher didn’t want to wear clothes? Is it unfair to “force” nudists to comply with such dress standards?

    Of course, the nudist is a crazy person and we all know that western dress standards were handed down by God at the beginning of time and people who prefer more modest clothing are crazy people as are those who prefer to wear nothing at all. The world revolves around western tastes does it not? :)

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  29. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    And the values of “modern society ” are equality and human rights.

    Look at how far the EU has got with those values.A superstate that denies it’s citizens a democratic say in how they are ruled.

    Hypocritical bullshit and lies. A smokescreen to impose the will of the elite on the majority who do value their Christian and European culture.

    An angry undercurrent is building and the results will be ugly.

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  30. Harriet (4,497 comments) says:

    Here’s another example where it looks like men have been DEMOTED IN SOCIETY as again their is no mention of ‘wife’ to spouse.

    Crimes Act 1961 (1961 No 43)
    In section 24(3), replace “husband” with “spouse”.

    However this maybe where a wife is laying a complaint with the police about being bashed by her husband.

    SOoooo that’s very telling, the select committee is expecting ‘butch bitches’ to belt THEIR female ‘wifes’.

    And we have been told for 40yrs that it is MEN who do ALL the BEATING of WOMEN in MARRIAGES !

    But Gay women are violent TOO says the government! hahhahahh :cool:

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  31. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    harriet @951

    The rule of law. That’s why A Bolt calls it “lawfare”. Where the activists use the law to overturn nature ,common sense ,tradition etc.

    In Europe the Human Rights courts tell sovereign governments to amend historic documnets in the name of human rights!

    See the Foy case in Ireland.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_aspects_of_transsexualism

    Utter madness.

    When the Muslims take over in Europe there’ll be a lot of beheadings as this “equality and human rights ” nonsense is most un Koranic behaviour.

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  32. Flyingkiwi9 (54 comments) says:

    You guys are forgetting what secularists have above all else – the correct answer. The ability to think rationally given facts. The ability to be open minded on new ideas and ways of thinking.

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  33. Judith (7,466 comments) says:

    ;Andrei (1,877) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 9:28 am
    Religion forms peoples morality, charity, empathy, compassion and care for one another by changing their hearts.

    Are you suggesting that a person without religious belief has no morals, isn’t charitable, displays no compassion and cannot feel empathy, and doesn’t care for others?

    To be honest, I have found the people who display all those qualities tend not to be religious, and that those who are, tend to be judgmental, intolerant of diversity, only give with ‘conditions’, only have compassion for like minded people (exception Salvation Army) and provide ‘care with rules’.

    How is the attitude displayed towards homosexuals consistent with the ‘empathy and compassion’ criteria?

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  34. Fletch (5,994 comments) says:

    Going along with the topic, a very good read is by Matthew Parris in The Times, who has an article titled, “As an atheist, I truly believe Africa needs God”

    Before Christmas I returned, after 45 years, to the country that as a boy I knew as Nyasaland. Today it’s Malawi, and The Times Christmas Appeal includes a small British charity working there. Pump Aid helps rural communities to install a simple pump, letting people keep their village wells sealed and clean. I went to see this work.

    It inspired me, renewing my flagging faith in development charities. But travelling in Malawi refreshed another belief, too: one I’ve been trying to banish all my life, but an observation I’ve been unable to avoid since my African childhood. It confounds my ideological beliefs, stubbornly refuses to fit my world view, and has embarrassed my growing belief that there is no God.

    Now a confirmed atheist, I’ve become convinced of the enormous contribution that Christian evangelism makes in Africa: sharply distinct from the work of secular NGOs, government projects and international aid efforts. These alone will not do. Education and training alone will not do. In Africa Christianity changes people’s hearts. It brings a spiritual transformation. The rebirth is real. The change is good.

    I used to avoid this truth by applauding – as you can – the practical work of mission churches in Africa. It’s a pity, I would say, that salvation is part of the package, but Christians black and white, working in Africa, do heal the sick, do teach people to read and write; and only the severest kind of secularist could see a mission hospital or school and say the world would be better without it. I would allow that if faith was needed to motivate missionaries to help, then, fine: but what counted was the help, not the faith.

    But this doesn’t fit the facts. Faith does more than support the missionary; it is also transferred to his flock. This is the effect that matters so immensely, and which I cannot help observing.

    First, then, the observation. We had friends who were missionaries, and as a child I stayed often with them; I also stayed, alone with my little brother, in a traditional rural African village. In the city we had working for us Africans who had converted and were strong believers. The Christians were always different. Far from having cowed or confined its converts, their faith appeared to have liberated and relaxed them. There was a liveliness, a curiosity, an engagement with the world – a directness in their dealings with others – that seemed to be missing in traditional African life. They stood tall.

    At 24, travelling by land across the continent reinforced this impression. From Algiers to Niger, Nigeria, Cameroon and the Central African Republic, then right through the Congo to Rwanda, Tanzania and Kenya, four student friends and I drove our old Land Rover to Nairobi.

    We slept under the stars, so it was important as we reached the more populated and lawless parts of the sub-Sahara that every day we find somewhere safe by nightfall. Often near a mission.

    Whenever we entered a territory worked by missionaries, we had to acknowledge that something changed in the faces of the people we passed and spoke to: something in their eyes, the way they approached you direct, man-to-man, without looking down or away. They had not become more deferential towards strangers – in some ways less so – but more open.

    MORE – http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/matthewparris/article2044345.ece

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  35. Harriet (4,497 comments) says:

    The select committee is being ‘prejudiced’ if they believe a ‘future’ ‘gay wife’ is going to be violent.

    There is no evidence to support that view as we don’t yet have ‘gay marriage’. The statistics are zero.

    C’mon gays – start saying to the select committee what you’ve being saying to us:

    BIGOTS! HOMOPHOBES! NUTTERS!

    Hold on…on the tv news…….. lesos are ALWAYS angry! :cool:

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  36. graham (2,214 comments) says:

    @ Chthoniid at 9:53 am.

    To me, too much emphasis is placed on “Religion”. I am a Christian. Why? Because I truly believe there is a God, that Jesus Christ exists, came to earth, died for our sins, etc. I won’t bore you with why, but I assure you it’s not just blindly following a faith.

    I try and live my life as I believe a Christian man should. Does that make me “religious”? I don’t know, and I really don’t care. Is the Christian religion dying? If I truly believe in God, in Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit, then on one plane that doesn’t really matter to me. It still won’t change what I believe.

    Ultimately, what is the point of a “religion”? To have an organised method of following “something”. To worship, to discuss beliefs, to meet other like-minded people. At it’s most basic, it’s a club, like a classic car club or a stamp collector’s club. But the point is, the “something” you follow in a religion must exist. Otherwise – what’s the point? Over 53,000 people listed themselves as Jedi in New Zealand’s 2001 census, which would make it the second largest religion in New Zealand. But really, what’s the point? Do they believe in The Force? Really? If not, it’s just a game.

    Ultimately, what matters to me is that I truly believe in God, in Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit. “Religion” is a convenient way of formalising that belief, I guess, but it comes a rather distant second.

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  37. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    iMP (1,075) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 8:52 am

    The only successful separation of church and state, has been Stalin and Hitler. “separation” is a myth and relates to the recent assumption by secularists that they are the neutral default setting, when in fact religion has been man’s default setting for all history.

    “recent” as in a couple hundred years ago starting with the enlightenment… about the same time humanity awoke from the doldrums of dark-age ignorance and poverty to spawn the greatest expansion in human prosperity and knowledge humanity has ever known.

    But regarding Stalin and Hitler… First, lets quote Hitler himself From Mein Kampf:

    “Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

    Now Stalin did renounce religion though he was raised in a very religious household and spent five years at a Greek Orthodox seminary. He also returned to Christianity later in life, as biographer Edvard Radinsky notes “During his mysterious retreat [of June 1941] the ex-seminarist had decided to involve the aid of the God he had rejected”. Stalin was also surrounded by people who were also religious so it is rather absurd to portray the communist regime as some sort of atheistic organization.

    Indeed the fact that Hitler was religious does not mean religion is to blame for his actions.

    Religion informs civil society…

    No, no, no. Religion doesn’t inform anything as it doesn’t provide knowledge. Knowledge is the set of true beliefs and since religion is based on faith one cannot ascertain whether or not any particular religious belief is true or not.

    …restrains excess, modifies carnality and evil, and helps the poor, weak, inform and helpless which secularism forgets.

    Nonsense. Ethics exist independently of religion and indeed I would argue ethics are improved in the absence of religion. Ethics only have true meaning when derived from reason rather than blind faith and obedience. Moreover, it is strange how modern secularist society doesn’t help the poor and weak in your view yet standards of living in modern western secularist nations is higher in modern times than ever before. Living standards of the poor today would be the envy of anyone living 100-200 years ago. Somehow religion dominating “for all history” and helping the poor and weak never seemed to address their standard of living in 10000 years of agricultural civilization. Only recently has this picture changed and yet it is recent changes that you abhor.

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  38. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Andrei (1,877) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 9:58 am

    See that’s the thing you don’t understand about the Christian Faith, it is voluntary, that pesky free will thing. You are free to do whatever you want but there will be consequences for whatever your choices are.

    So go ahead and suggest the Earth revolves around the Sun… but just remember there will be consequences like you being locked in your house for the rest of your life. It’s all about that “free will thing”. :)

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  39. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    LOL Weihana the “Age of Enlightenment” was ushered in by the “Reign of Terror” where madam guillotine operated every day all day while it separated the heads from the bodies of about 17,000 French citizens as well as numerous other examples of people meeting their ends in violent ways in the name of “enlightenment”.

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  40. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    graham (1,692) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    @ Chthoniid at 9:53 am.

    To me, too much emphasis is placed on “Religion”. I am a Christian. Why? Because I truly believe there is a God, that Jesus Christ exists, came to earth, died for our sins, etc. I won’t bore you with why, but I assure you it’s not just blindly following a faith.

    Not blind faith? You have evidence then that stands up to scientific scrutiny? or did God whisper in your ear?

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  41. thedavincimode (6,522 comments) says:

    ex-golfer

    Scrolling thru the insightful contributions from the usual suspects (those with G** on their sleeves and hate in their hearts) would tend to suggest that the scroll key isn’t sufficient. Coming to GD actually requires deployment of Ctrl + End. Fortunately Griff appears to be still sleeping it off so AGW has yet to poke it’s head up.

    The only flicker of amusement so far is the inference from Andrei that he practices morality, charity, empathy, compassion

    You have been witnessing the movement of GD and indeed this blog generally down the toilet. After today’s efforts from the faithful zealots, it is safe to assume that GD itself has now moved safely past the ‘S’ bend.

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  42. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    The Dark Ages were anything but dark.

    Look at the ignorance and poverty in this.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ardagh_chalice.jpg

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  43. Harriet (4,497 comments) says:

    “…See that’s the thing you don’t understand about the Christian Faith, it is voluntary, that pesky free will thing. You are free to do whatever you want but there will be consequences for whatever your choices are….”

    I’d love to hear the religions all announce together to the State -

    “We are closing everything up for JUST 2 months for ‘renewal’. Starting at 6am tommorrow.”

    Other than all government services being in a state of emergency – when the doors re-opened in 2 months there would be 1,000 times too many to fit in.

    I heard that being said by a former Commanding Officer of an Australian Govt ‘service’.[more or less in those words]

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  44. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    hahahaha

    dawinci is so immersed in Judeo Christian culture he can’t avoid it. …….who were the Zealots?

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  45. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    graham (1,692) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 10:32 am

    Over 53,000 people listed themselves as Jedi in New Zealand’s 2001 census, which would make it the second largest religion in New Zealand. But really, what’s the point? Do they believe in The Force? Really?

    Hilarious. “The Force”.. now that’s just crazy talk.. but talking snakes and virgin birth… that’s eminently reasonable!

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  46. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    … those with G** on their sleeves and hate in their hearts

    The most hateful comments around here are those directed at Christians, day after day, after day.

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  47. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Lance (1,750) Says:

    February 28th, 2013 at 9:51 am
    @Kea
    You are making sweeping and ignorant generalizations with fact free assertions.

    So are you telling us that christianity did not come form the Middle East and is totally different from Islam ?

    The bible is a dark and ignorant book. Fortunately most of its followers chose to ignore the clear words of the bible and do the right thing.

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  48. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    krazykiwi,

    Hateful eh? Of course you don’t include in your assessment those who say or imply that one cannot be moral or ethical without religion. Secularists like myself are apparently prone to excess, to evil, we care not for the poor and are on a par with the likes of Stalin and Hitler… but no… all the angst is directed towards the poor old Christian who bruises at the mere suggestion that their beliefs are of questionable rationality.

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  49. Harriet (4,497 comments) says:

    “….Going along with the topic, a very good read is by Matthew Parris in The Times, who has an article titled, “As an atheist, I truly believe Africa needs God”…’

    Parris is actually on record for saying that Christians should all go back to their Churches as the alternative is dire. He said himself that he isn’t Christian but for those who are, they should return.He is also gay.

    I think it was Mark Steyn who wrote it up.

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  50. Dean Papa (707 comments) says:

    Only real sad men watch fox news.

    here’s Bill Maher on con-men Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity …

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  51. Harriet (4,497 comments) says:

    “….Now a confirmed atheist, I’ve become convinced of the enormous contribution that Christian evangelism makes in Africa: sharply distinct from the work of secular NGOs, government projects and international aid efforts. These alone will not do….”

    The likes of Labour and the Green’s and all their ‘feel good’ policy wouldn’t pick up the slack in NZ either.

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  52. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    kowtow (3,741) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 10:47 am

    The Dark Ages were anything but dark…

    So why don’t you renounce your modern conveniences and enjoy the wonders of life in the dark ages?

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  53. emmess (1,367 comments) says:

    Typical scummy teachers union

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-21597680

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  54. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    Weihana – nothing in your 10:58 invalidate my opinion of 10:54.

    If you want to try a ‘relative balance of hate’ justification you’ll need to start again with that as a stated objective.

    FWIW, I regard any explicit claims that someone is ‘hateful’ because of their Christian faith as a large, clear mirror. And after his 10:47, DVM is admiring his reflection.

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  55. Chthoniid (2,027 comments) says:

    Secularism isn’t killing Christianity. Secularism is neutral on the survival of that religion.

    What’s killing it is education, its failures to live up to its promises and the wounds inflicted on it by its own adherents.

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  56. ex-golfer (145 comments) says:

    @ davinci
    I’m going to suggest to DPF that we have a daily GD thread for, you know, general debate on current topics.
    Then he can have a separate daily thread for debate on marriage (and therefore the virtues or otherwise of religion) and climate change.
    The arguments are getting very boring.
    KB will slowly lose its interest.

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  57. Wayne91 (143 comments) says:

    Andrei (1,878) Says: “See that’s the thing you don’t understand about the Christian Faith, it is voluntary, that pesky free will thing. You are free to do whatever you want but there will be consequences for whatever your choices are.”

    Andrei – is it voluntary for a four year to brainwashed into thinking that God will protect her only if she believes, bows and scrapes to God? Forced to attend church, forced to listen to religious music, forced to watch religious TV.
    Personally – I think that is not voluntary and borders on child abuse. I’m sure im not the only one that sees this happening.

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  58. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    ex-golfer marriage is a “current topic” it is being radically re-defined in Parliament as we speak.

    Or are we only allowed to discuss topics that you agree we should be allowed to talk about?

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  59. Lance (2,439 comments) says:

    @Kea
    The Bible established a code of conduct with the 10 commandments, established rights for the underprivileged, codes of conduct for slave owners and release of slaves after 7 years etc etc.
    Not only that but a new covenant came with Jesus that superseded the harsh provisions of the law. He shows the new way with preventing the sinning woman from being stoned to death, interacting with hated enemies, proclaiming people are more important than the law/rules and we should all work together for the common good.

    Many of these principles are woven into our society and the basis of our law today.
    Many societies fail to live up to these earliest principles even today.

    But of course I knew I would have to point out this to you because it is completely beyond your ability to avoid gross generalizations.

    I also frequently find ignoramuses proclaim loudly what is bad about the bible but are completely ignorant about what they are saying. E.g there are examples of bad behaviour in the bible as a lesson in what NOT to do., just because it’s in the bible doesn’t mean it’s the correct thing. God thought Kings were a bad idea but the Israelites insisted on a King and generally speaking bad things happened as a result.

    I could go on but this is a deep and complex book with multi-layered meanings and teachings.
    Your shallow dismissal of all that it contains is an indication of a closed mind.

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  60. graham (2,214 comments) says:

    Weihana at 10:51 am

    Hilarious. “The Force”.. now that’s just crazy talk.. but talking snakes and virgin birth… that’s eminently reasonable!

    Oh I AM sorry, Weihana, I honestly didn’t mean to insult you. I didn’t realise you are in fact a believer in The Force.

    So, I take it that you will be taking the first opportunity possible to be married to your Jedi partner by a Jedi celebrant? Congratulations! :)

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  61. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    Why do the religious on this page think that Hitler has anything to do with secularism?

    Remember this?
    “”Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.”

    And

    “The folkish-minded man, in particular, has the sacred duty, each in his own denomination, of making people stop just talking superficially of God’s will, and actually fulfill God’s will, and not let God’s word be desecrated. For God’s will gave men their form, their essence and their abilities. Anyone who destroys His work is declaring war on the Lord’s creation, the divine will.”

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  62. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “The Bible established a code of conduct with the 10 commandments”

    No it didn’t – the 10 commandments were lifted from much older laws including the Code of Hammurabi

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  63. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    I like travel, but this long-haul flight might test my patience: Billionaire Denis Tito Plans to Send Married Couple to Mars.

    Any volunteers? Note the little problem of likely infertility :D

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  64. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Wayne91 (92) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Andrei – is it voluntary for a four year to brainwashed into thinking that God will protect her only if she believes, bows and scrapes to God? Forced to attend church, forced to listen to religious music, forced to watch religious TV.
    Personally – I think that is not voluntary and borders on child abuse. I’m sure im not the only one that sees this happening.

    Lots of things are forced on children by their parents. They are forced to go to school. Forced to attend family barbecues. Forced to wear uncomfortable clothes that are “just so precious!”. Life as a child inevitably involves limited freedom. Comparing a religious upbringing to child abuse trivializes real abuse in my view. However I do agree with the overall point that Christianity is not exactly always “voluntary”.

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  65. Lance (2,439 comments) says:

    @The Contrarian
    Yea Hitler was such a fan of Christianity he had thousands of Christians murdered for standing up for Godly principles.

    Maybe he was an evil dictator that used any words at all to achieve his twisted goal?

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  66. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    wehana
    At no time did I suggest I don’t enjoy modern conveniences,I was simply saying the Dark Ages weren’t dark.

    In fact the Age of Enlightenment gave us such brilliant characters as Adam Smith and Captain Cook. Both men whose contributions to our world are beyond estimation!

    So wei do you celebrate colonial expansion and capitalism,both are great achivements of the Enlightenment you are so enamoured with?

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  67. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    Wayne – the current ethos is to take children from about three and put them into “Childhood Early Education” where women, functionaries of the State, begin the process of indoctrinating according to a secular curricular developed in an ivory tower in Wellington.

    Those people who raise their own children are perfectly entitled to raise them according to their own customs and mores to pass these onto their own children in turn.

    The secular of course with their over weaning sense of self superiority hate this of course which is why all these efforts are undertaken to undermine parental teaching and authority.

    Guess what mate if I raise my kids according to the beliefs and customs of my ancestors, beliefs and customs that have served my ancestors well for over a millenium it is none of your business!

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  68. Harriet (4,497 comments) says:

    “…Lots of things are forced on children by their parents. They are forced to go to school…”

    It’s the law that says that children should be ‘educated’, that can be at school or home schooled. However, to be ‘suitable’ citizens they have to be home taught the national curriculum.

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  69. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “Maybe he was an evil dictator that used any words at all to achieve his twisted goal?”

    yes he was – but he wasn’t an atheist in the slightest and Mein Kampf was written (where he stated his belief in the lord and a creator) before he came to power

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  70. ex-golfer (145 comments) says:

    @ Andrei – I agree it is topical – therefore it deserves its own thread where you can debate back and forth all day and night long with your continuous round-about arguments (that sound the same every day by the way).
    Its such an important topic it deserves its own thread.
    Then the rest of us can debate daily topics of interest.

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  71. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    ex-golfer you are free to introduce any topic you want to this thread. If other people are interested it will fly and if they are not it will die.

    That’s the way that this thread works

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  72. ex-golfer (145 comments) says:

    @ Andrei – I did introduce a topic.
    It quickly got buried under the daily marriage debate.
    That’s the way General Debate now rolls.

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  73. Harriet (4,497 comments) says:

    Mein Kampf wasn’t based on Christian doctrine in any way at all.

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  74. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    kowtow (3,742) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 11:25 am

    So wei do you celebrate colonial expansion and capitalism,both are great achivements of the Enlightenment you are so enamoured with?

    In a generalized sense, yes.

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  75. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “Mein Kampf wasn’t based on Christian doctrine in any way at all.”

    I never said it was. But Hitler clearly though he was doing the work of a higher power.

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  76. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Harriet (1,186) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 11:33 am

    Mein Kampf wasn’t based on Christian doctrine in any way at all.

    Nor was it based on secularism. That’s the point. People can disagree about religion/atheism without needing to ascribe the worst evils in history to their ideological opponents.

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  77. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    @ Andrei – I did introduce a topic.
    It quickly got buried under the daily marriage debate.
    That’s the way General Debate now rolls.

    There are other orphan posts on this thread besides yours – what it means is that nobody has anything more to say about the subject or they are just not that interested in the first place.

    Don’t take it to heart

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  78. graham (2,214 comments) says:

    Spot on Weihana (at 11:38)!

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  79. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    @Weihana

    Well said

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  80. ex-golfer (145 comments) says:

    @ Andrei – don’t worry on my behalf, I don’t take things to heart.
    I have much more entertaining things to do in my life.
    Have a nice day.

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  81. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    When the c#ntrarian quotes Hitler using Christian themes he falls into the same trap as so many Germans did.Duped.

    But c#ntrarian is using Hitler to attack christians.Interesting choice of ally.

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  82. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “When the c#ntrarian quotes Hitler using Christian themes he falls into the same trap as so many Germans did.Duped.”

    No I am not duped at all. What i am pointing out is that Hitler quite obviously didn’t do what he did for reasons of ‘atheism’ or ‘secularism’ which seems to be the narrative the religious would like others have belief. And it is bullshit.

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  83. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    Yep the Nazis were good Christians . That’s why they murdered this evil bastard.

    http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/Kolbe.html

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  84. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    Who said the Nazi’s were good Christians? Certainly wasn’t me.

    Nice strawman though

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  85. Harriet (4,497 comments) says:

    “….kea…..Your shallow dismissal of all that it contains[The Bible] is an indication of a closed mind…”

    Quite right about kea….and a lot of others here too.

    “……The shallow consider liberty a release from all law, from every constraint. The wise man sees in it, on the contrary, the potent Law of Laws….”–Walt Whitman

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  86. thedavincimode (6,522 comments) says:

    It is interesting that there are essentially two quite distinct subsets of the god-bothering fraternity who frequent this blog.

    One subset holds those who quietly go about their business and don’t feel compelled at every twist and turn to climb onto a religious hobby horse that inevitably provokes exchanges that hardly do the big guy’s reputation any good. They seem to have sufficient faith and self-awareness to not bother themselves in getting bogged down in that rubbish.

    Then we have the other subset containing those who seem to think that in promulgating intolerance and bigotry in a way that appears, to the non godbothering fraternity at least, as being completely inconsistent with their understanding of Christian principles, they will enhance their chances of making it through the pearly gates. It’s almost as if it’s a case of “Look at me, I believe more”. It is quite perplexing behaviour. We are all human as they say, and nobody is perfect and it is naive to expect that anybody will consistently behave in a manner consistent with their belief set, so why should Christians be any different? But another perplexing behaviour from subset no. 2 is that it isn’t a case of the odd slip up. On the contrary, it is in fact reflective of their normal operating mode and it seems that in their case, the “slip up” would constitute behaving in a manner that is actually consistent with non G**bothers’ expectations of Christian standards of behaviour.

    This is consistently reflected in KB’s landmark [pfft font]“debates”. Subset no. 2 aren’t content to merely say: ” I disagree with this gay marriage business and my disagreement is founded in my Christian beliefs which say this…” No, first it’s a case of: fact 1,” the bible is the authoritative source” (remembering of course that this is addressed to people who don’t believe it is any more than the umpteenth translation of some heresay ramblings jotted down on bits of paper that blew around the desert for a while); fact 2, “the bible says this therefore it is right” (to the same audience remember), therefore, conclusion: “all the nasty homos are inferior worthless people who will go to hell”, or that “this is just a part of a global homo plot to take over the world and I include all homos in that including the ones who just happen to be minding their own business and trying to get on with their lives.” Never mind allowing any compassion, or even trying to empathise with those who may have found confronting their sexuality a very difficult process and may have been grappling with self-esteem issues throughout their childhood and adolescence. No, the appropriate response is to point out to those lost souls that not only are they lost souls but they verge on the sub-human and are straight off to hell and so there!. Ditto the euthenasia debate and the appallingly arrogant and insensitive contribution by one of the usual suspects in particular.

    Which of course leads to the third perplexing behaviour: feeling so jolly smug and pleased with themselves when they’ve done it.

    It kind of narrows the choices down really. Either it genuinely is perplexing, or all we’ve been hearing for the last couple of thousand years is rubbish and JC was in fact just an itinerant arsehole.

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  87. Harriet (4,497 comments) says:

    “….No I am not duped at all. What i am pointing out is that Hitler quite obviously didn’t do what he did for reasons of ‘atheism’ or ‘secularism’ which seems to be the narrative the religious would like others have belief. And it is bullshit….’

    Stick with the ‘isms’ idiot and you’ll soon get to racism, and Nationalism.

    And that’s trueism :cool:

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  88. Colville (2,058 comments) says:

    The Nazis certianly thought they had God on their side….Gott mit uns and all that stuff…

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  89. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    Way to miss the point Harriet.

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  90. RRM (9,420 comments) says:

    DVM – you mean our Christian Taliban?

    Yes we’ve all noticed.

    maybe if people ignored them instead of taking the bait, things would be different?

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  91. nasska (10,611 comments) says:

    In a nutshell Davinci….the situation has never been described better.

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  92. RRM (9,420 comments) says:

    Neat doco about the WW2 Hawker Typhoon squadrons… which there seems to be very little else out there about.

    Appears to be a small private venture film, trying to get air play any way he can. It seems good enough to be on TV if you ask me…

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  93. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    colville

    Got mit uns predated the Nazis.

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  94. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    I’d guess dawinci is feeling jolly smug and pleased with himself after that massive midday missive.

    Arsehole.

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  95. Keeping Stock (10,090 comments) says:

    What Elaycee said (at 8.26am). TV3′s coverage of the V8′s has been woeful at best. Sky TV will provide genuine live coverage, and for those of us with the foresight to invest in MySky, even if races are at inconvenient times there’s still the opportunity to watch them in full. With motorcycling, F1, NASCAR, NHRA and the V8 Supercars, not to mention local motorsport coverage, Sky is the place for the petrolheads to get their fix.

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  96. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    What a load of crap thedavincimode.

    See what progressive do is not to debate through logic and reason but through shallow emotion.

    If any one disagrees with gay “marriage” they are by your definition a bigot, hater homophobe. This is how you attempt to bully your opponants into silence.

    And do you know why you do it because you don’t actually have a case, the only way to win is to bully people into silent compliance with whatever insanity you intend to inflict upon us all whether we like it or not

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  97. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    RRM,dawinci and nasskrap

    Our Secular Taliban. There I can throw silly insults too.

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  98. Harriet (4,497 comments) says:

    “….Ditto the euthenasia debate and the appallingly arrogant and insensitive contribution by one of the usual suspects in particular….”

    Was that me?
    All I can remember saying was:

    With abortion and euthanasia the government is becoming a killing machine. The lesson learnt from the Nazis is that they needed the knowledge of the doctors who were already aborting and practicing euathansia to run their extermination programme, without them it wasn’t possable…….Like abortion, the NZ government will put up a wall of silence and we won’t know if the rules around euathansia are being expanded like the doctors were doing with abortion. We never voted in 3rd term abortions in NZ.

    It was more a case of saying the truth than being insensitive: A warning.
    The Nazi matter is all recorded as such, but that’s not to say that NZ would go down that road, but the fact is: The doctors in Germany probably thought the same!
    The Greens in Germany were one of the first, keenest, and largest groups to sign up as members of the Socialist Nationalist Party.

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  99. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    “Stick with the ‘isms’ idiot and you’ll soon get to racism, and Nationalism.

    And that’s trueism ”

    Harriet…start your own blog and I’ll subscribe

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  100. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Deadly Mexican Drug Cartels Offer $47,000 For Info On Anonymous Facebook Watchdogs

    A Facebook page run by anonymous activists has drawn the anger of drug cartels in the border state of Tamaulipas by tracking car-jackings, kidnappings, and murders in the region. The cartel has responded by printed flyers, which offer a $47,000 reward for any information on the activists or their family members.

    And these are the drug cartels Bank of America was sued over for laundering their money. A lot of the reason for the 2008 financial crash was drug cartels withdrawing funds from US banks. One analyst on Max Keiser has said no one at all in the US financial sector knows exactly what is in US banks.

    http://www.policymic.com/articles/28184/deadly-mexican-drug-cartels-offer-47-000-for-info-on-anonymous-facebook-watchdogs

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  101. Longknives (4,394 comments) says:

    “Most religions have already extinct. Xtianity is dying in the West.”

    Bollocks. Got any facts or figures to support this?
    Have you ever visited the USA? Or South America?

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  102. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Housing affordability focus in RMA re-work
    Last updated 09:13 28/02/2013

    Amy Adams
    Fairfax NZ
    AMY ADAMS: There would be clear direction from central government on matters such as housing affordability and natural hazards.

    Stronger direction from central Government on housing affordability has been signalled in an overhaul of the Resource Management Act.

    Proposed changes include provision for some types of development to be processed without notification, a limit on what affected parties could object to, tighter rules around the scope of potential submissions and appeals, and provision for an alternative Crown body to take over consenting processes in areas facing growth management pressures.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8363078/Housing-affordability-focus-in-RMA-re-work

    At long bloody last. The useless Smith was going to do all this 5 years ago. Time he followed Mallard out the door.

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  103. Longknives (4,394 comments) says:

    And why has ‘Xtian’ become a trendy buzzword for smug,know it all Athiests?
    Is using an abbreviation supposed to insult or offend them?

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  104. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “Is using an abbreviation supposed to insult or offend them?”

    Neither. Next.

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  105. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    ILLUMINATI PAWNS: Hip-Hop Mogul Proposes FREE BEYONCE CONCERT PASSES… IF YOUR TURN IN YOUR GUNS!!!

    http://www.secretsofthefed.com/illuminati-pawns-hip-hop-mogul-proposes-free-beyonce-concert-passes-iy-your-turn-in-your-guns/

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  106. Longknives (4,394 comments) says:

    I’d rather keep my gun and shoot myself than be forced to listen to a ‘Hip Hop’ concert (Or Beyonce lip-synching as she shakes her thunderous thighs)..

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  107. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    And why has ‘Xtian’ become a trendy buzzword for smug,know it all Athiests?

    I think they struggle with the with the concept of ‘Christ’ to the extent that even writing the word makes them feel uncomfortable, that perhaps using the name somehow demonstrates a belief.

    I wonder if they also struggle to write santa, dalek, yoda etc :D

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  108. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “I think they struggle with the with the concept of ‘Christ’ to the extent that even writing the word makes them feel uncomfortable, that perhaps using the name somehow demonstrates a belief.”

    Yes of course, that’s it.

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  109. Chthoniid (2,027 comments) says:

    The X in Xtian is a common abbreviation stemming to the era of Constantine and the Chi-Rho symbol used as a blazon on shields.

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  110. thedavincimode (6,522 comments) says:

    Robert Langdon

    Thanks for that. :)

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  111. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    Much like Xmas is an abbreviation

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  112. nasska (10,611 comments) says:

    krazykiwi

    Utter bollocks! It’s just quicker to type than “Godbotherer”. :)

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  113. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    @Krazykiwi

    Because it isn’t polite to say c*nt :-)

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  114. Longknives (4,394 comments) says:

    ““Most religions have already extinct. Xtianity is dying in the West.””

    Come up with an explanation for this somewhat bizarre assertion yet?
    There are over 2 Billion Christians on the Planet. Over 150 Million in the United States alone.
    I’m no ‘God Botherer’ myself but it annoys me when people talk utter shit…

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  115. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    It looks like Obama is up to his usual tricks, by supporting Islamic extremists on one hand, and invading and murdering innocent Muslims on another.

    “The US will increase aid to the Syrian opposition, the White House has announced. Europe may follow suit by increasing aid to the Free Syrian Army (FSA). ” http://rt.com/news/us-eu-armor-syrian-rebels-516/

    This would be like the US supporting Tama Iti. In fact, he had more legitimate concerns than those of the militant Islamic war mongers who are the force behind the “Arab Spring”

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  116. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Arms for Syrian rebels go mostly to jihadists – report

    “Most of the arms funneled to Syrian rebels reportedly end up in the hands of hardline Islamist extremists, including those affiliated with Al-Qaeda. There is no way of vetting rebel groups to bolster only those with more secular views.

    The Syrian armed opposition is supplied with small arms from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, while their other foreign allies like the US provide logistical help for the transactions.”

    http://rt.com/news/arms-syria-rebels-jihadists-535/

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  117. thedavincimode (6,522 comments) says:

    Quote 1

    See what progressive do is not to debate through logic and reason but through shallow emotion.

    Andrei, that’s worth bottling for two reasons, but somehow I don’t think that you will ever understand why.

    Quote 2

    If any one disagrees with gay “marriage” they are by your definition a bigot, hater homophobe. This is how you attempt to bully your opponants into silence.

    Andrei, remedial reading might be in order for you. BTW, refer quote 1.

    Quote 3

    And do you know why you do it because you don’t actually have a case, the only way to win is to bully people into silent compliance with whatever insanity you intend to inflict upon us all whether we like it or not

    Yes, of course. If I were to re-read what I had written, I’m sure I would realise that that is exactly what I was doing.

    In summary Andrei, can I just say that your reply exceeded any expectations that I might have had in the event that I might have troubled myself in having any expectations.

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  118. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “It looks like Obama is up to his usual tricks”

    It’d more accurate to say “”It looks like the USA is up to it’s usual tricks” because the US has been doing this since the days of Reagan if not earlier (admittedly without the invading bit but they have been playing one side against the other for decades)

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  119. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    wehana @ 1044 blames Christians for the old Son around the earth bollocks.

    I blame “science”. From the days of Ptolemy,it was accepted science that the Sun revolved around the Earth.That was the observed science of the day.
    Until of course more scientific evidence came to hand.

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  120. Ryan Sproull (7,025 comments) says:

    See what progressive do is not to debate through logic and reason but through shallow emotion.

    If any one disagrees with gay “marriage” they are by your definition a bigot, hater homophobe. This is how you attempt to bully your opponants into silence.

    And do you know why you do it because you don’t actually have a case, the only way to win is to bully people into silent compliance with whatever insanity you intend to inflict upon us all whether we like it or not

    I’m a progressive, Andrei. I don’t recall bullying anyone.

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  121. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    TheContrarian, I agree. However Obama has taken it to levels never seen before. He is exempt from the level of scrutiny given to previous presidents, because he looks more like his dad than his mum.

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  122. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    BREAKING: Shell have just announced they’ve cancelled their plans to drill for oil in the Arctic for 2013. This is a huge moment for the Arctic and everyone who’s campaigned to stop Shell, but the threat remains.

    Join the global movement of millions to make sure they don’t return http://www.savethearctic.org

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  123. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    to stop Shell, but the threat remains.

    The “threat” of having the highest standard of living in human history ?

    Tell ya what, if you don’t want the benefits of the oil industry then stop using its products. They are only supplying the demand of hypocrites like yourself.

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  124. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “However Obama has taken it to levels never seen before.”

    The Iran-Contra scandal was a little more egregious I’d say. There was also the funneling of arms to Iraq.

    “He is exempt from the level of scrutiny given to previous presidents, because he looks more like his dad than his mum.”

    Disagree totally. In fact I would say Obama is under more scrutiny. Every fucking conservative out there is demanding everything from Obama outside of a fucking sperm sample

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  125. publicwatchdog (2,093 comments) says:

    27 February 2013

    MEDIA ADVISORY: : Switch Off Mercury Energy community group:

    PROTEST THURSDAY 28 FEBRUARY 2013

    The Auckland Switch Off Mercury Energy Group has organised the following:

    PROTEST!

    WHEN: Thursday 28 February 2013, from 3.30 – 5.30pm

    WHERE: Outside Mighty River Power corporate office

    ANZ building, 23 – 29 Albert St, Auckland City

    MAP: https://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=mighty+river+power+auckland&fb=1&gl=nz&hq=mighty+river+power&hnear=0x6d0d47fb5a9ce6fb%3A0x500ef6143a29917%2CAuckland&cid=0%2C0%2C14661661492653781907&ei=Iu-EUM-0La6higfJyoG4Dg&ved=0CGYQ_BIwAQ

    ______________________________________________________________________________

    “The legal challenge is over – now it’s PEOPLE POWER TIME to stop the sell-off of Mighty River Power!” says a Spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy group, Penny Bright.

    “It is time for the public and all political parties opposed to asset sales to hold this minority National Government’s ‘feet to the fire’. Remember this?

    “Let me make it quite clear. If the Government doesn’t get a good price – the Government isn’t going to sell”

    (Tony Ryall, Minister of SOE’s 17/6/2012 NBR

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/govt-wont-sell-assets-if-it-cant-get-good-price-ryall-ck-121435 )

    “How can the Government get a ‘good price’ for Mighty River Power – if it’s losing thousands of customers and it’s profits are dropping?”

    [PRECEDENT: In 2008, Contact Energy (already privatized) doubled their directors fees and raised their prices 12%.In 6 months, more than 40,000 customers switched from Contact Energy and their profits were halved.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/droughts/news/article.cfm?c_id=180&objectid=10590906&pnum=0 ]

    “It’s now time for thousands more New Zealand Mums and Dads, aunties, uncles, brothers, sisters, and grandparents (particularly those struggling to pay power bills for companies we already own) to ‘seize the moment’ and take action which cannot be ignored!

    It’s time to Switch Off Mercury Energy – 100% owned by Mighty River Power!

    The companies to whom we recommend switching are the following publicly owned companies:
    Genesis Energy http://www.genesisenergy.co.nz Ph 0800 300 400
    Meridian Energy http://www.meridianenergy.co.nz Ph 0800 496 496
    Powershop http://www.powershop.co.nz Ph 0800 1000 60
    Energy Online http://www.energyonline.co.nz Ph 0800 086 400 ”

    Penny Bright

    A Spokesperson for the Switch Off Mercury Energy community group.

    http://www.facebook.com/SwitchOffMercuryEnergy/info

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  126. Lance (2,439 comments) says:

    Why don’t Greenpeace sail/row everywhere and their land lubbers only cycle/walk?
    Just about anything else uses dirty filthy ugly evil non-renewable oil !!!!

    Not to mention every greeny with solar hot water and solar electric on their house.

    Wouldn’t be hypocrisy would it?

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  127. Elaycee (4,287 comments) says:

    Ahoy, Penny: Have you paid your rates (including the overdue amounts and the penalties), yet?

    Just checking…

    Elaycee,
    Concerned Ratepayer.
    A Spokesman for the ‘Save Our Skunks From Exploitation’ citizens group.

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  128. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Disagree totally. In fact I would say Obama is under more scrutiny

    He is not, at least by the msm. I recall when Bush was in power, every death was front page news and was attributed to “Bush’s” war. Even if the deaths were the result of internal conflict between rival groups.

    Obama has invaded/occupied/bombed far more countries than Bush ever did. He recently announced plans to send troops to 35 countries, in Africa alone, this year. He got a Nobel peace prize, from the left.

    He is judged by the colour of his skin, not the content of his character.

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  129. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    kowtow (3,750) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 2:16 pm

    wehana @ 1044 blames Christians for the old Son around the earth bollocks.

    I blame “science”. From the days of Ptolemy,it was accepted science that the Sun revolved around the Earth.That was the observed science of the day.
    Until of course more scientific evidence came to hand.

    Until more evidence came to hand? lol. Yeah right, THAT’s how it happened. New evidence came to hand and the Catholic Church said “Oh really? Wow looks like we were wrong.. okay let everyone know that we were wrong”.

    Copernicus came up with his theory of heliocentrism in about 1514. The theory was either ignored or criticized as being a mathematical fiction. How could it be anything else? Scripture says otherwise therefore he must be wrong!

    When observations “came to hand” that confirmed the theory did the Church accept it? Of course not. They doubled down on scripture and prosecuted Galileo for heresy. Not until the 1800s did the heliocentric theory get removed from the censorship list.

    This doesn’t mean all Christians are to blame, but it does go to show that the faith is not always voluntary as Andrei tried to suggest. There are plenty of examples throughout history and even in modern society where some Christians attempt to impose their faith on others and the controversy over heliocentrism is a classic example of that.

    Power and religion are a dangerous combination as the entrenched orthodoxy will always be resistant to new ideas which can only serve to threaten their control.

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  130. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    He got a Nobel peace prize

    If I recall correctly, the Nobel committee met to decide on Obama’s award just 11 days into his presidency, ie no track record, just plenty of socialist rhetoric from the first African-American commander-in-chief.

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  131. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Kea (2,245) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    I recall when Bush was in power, every death was front page news and was attributed to “Bush’s” war.

    Which was so unfair because it was all Cheney’s idea… poor Bush. :roll:

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  132. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Kea (2,245) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 3:08 pm

    Disagree totally. In fact I would say Obama is under more scrutiny

    He is not, at least by the msm.

    I love it how those on the right always qualify their remarks by reference to the “main stream media” (aka the “lame” stream media.. awww that joke never gets old..). This of course ignores the fact that conservatives have one major prominent news network acting as their permanent spokesperson. Media bias goes both ways.

    Obama has invaded/occupied/bombed far more countries than Bush ever did.

    This is disingenuous. Wars are not created equal and trying to suggest Obama is more of a warmongering president than his predecessor is ridiculous.

    He is judged by the colour of his skin, not the content of his character.

    Indeed… by Trump and other nitwits the likes of which fill this blog. :)

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  133. Lucia Maria (2,202 comments) says:

    Weihana,

    You know that the theory of heliocentrism (which places our sun at the centre of the universe) is not actually correct, don’t you?

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  134. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    This should be good…

    @Lucia – what do you propose if heliocentrism is incorrect?

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  135. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    I presume Lucia Maria is pointing out that the sun is but one star among billions orbiting the supermassive black hole at the centre of our galaxy and that our galaxy is but one of countless others in a Universe that has no centre.

    Of course this has nothing to do with why the Church censored the theory.

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  136. Chthoniid (2,027 comments) says:

    @longknives

    Census data in western countries show that the numbers identifying as Xtians is in steady, long term decline. The largest growth is with the ‘no religion’ group. Even in the US, this process is ongoing. The latest Pell survey showed a jump to 20% without religion, and this surged to 30% in the younger cohort.

    When a religion is bleeding members faster than it can replace them, and this is accelerating in its main recruitment pool, its dying.

    I made no claims about the status of Xtianity elsewhere. Your point is moot. Nonetheless, the attack on child witches by African Xtians (an endemic problem in a ‘growth’ area) is a bit of a PR problem. That Xtianity can persuade a group of adults to chase down a terrorised kid with downs syndrome and set him on fire for being a witch, isn’t really a success story for the faith. More that bronze-age values are pretty lethal in the hands of the superstitious.

    But I’m sure that denying facts, turning a blind eye to atrocities, and blaming others, will be filling those church pews soon. So please, keep it up.

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  137. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    There is no ‘hidden cost’ of family breakdown… it’s very visible:

    Child support debt exceeds $2.6b

    Child support debt has ballooned to more than $2.6 billion in New Zealand and shows no sign of abating, as Inland Revenue struggles to rein in those who are falling behind in payments.

    IRD figures released under the Official Information Act show child support debt in this country had risen by more than 13 per cent in a year.

    The most recent data showed a total debt of $2.61 billion as of November 30, last year. In 2011, figures showed almost eight out of 10 of those liable for child support were behind in their payments, owing Inland Revenue almost $2.3 billion

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  138. Longknives (4,394 comments) says:

    I don’t really care about ‘Witch Burnings’ and whatever other evils you think Christians are participating in as we speak…
    I was simply pointing out that the World’s biggest religion, with over Two Billion adherents, isn’t quite “Dying Out” as you rather laughably claimed.

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  139. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    This is disingenuous. Wars are not created equal and trying to suggest Obama is more of a warmongering president than his predecessor is ridiculous.

    It is not ridiculous, it is a fact. I suggest you have no idea (or interest) in the number of military actions taken under Obamas presidency. It is appalling and shocking to any decent fair minded person (eg: not shocking to Obama supporters)

    But just for shits and giggles, tell us how Obamas military aggression is more “equal” than Bush’s ?

    The fact his you support him because he is black and secondly because he is made out to be on the left (though he is really a right wing war monger.) The media bias against Bush was shocking and was only matched by the campaign to promote the useless nobody Obama. Dimwits like yourself have brought into it hook line and sinker. Obama is a terrible president and the whole world is paying for it.

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  140. Elaycee (4,287 comments) says:

    Another brilliant result by the men and women in blue…. with drugs worth A$438 Million being nabbed by Australian Customs and Police.

    I’m sure the Asian connection will be sweating…. the justice they’ll receive will involve looking down the barrel at a gift coming their way courtesy of Ms Remington.

    Good riddance.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/8364453/Kiwi-caught-in-Australias-biggest-P-bust

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  141. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    I wouldn’t say it is dying out either but it is certainly losing influence.

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  142. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “The fact his you support him because he is black”

    Strawman

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  143. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    TheContrarian (581) Says:

    February 28th, 2013 at 4:38 pm
    “The fact his you support him because he is black”

    Strawman

    Explain to KB readers why he was given the Nobel peace prize ? (this should be funny)

    During the his election campaign Obama promised to esculate the most absurd war in Americans history. It remains the only election promise he has kept. The body count proves it.

    The withdrawal from Iraq was set by Bush, not Obama. Obama has attacked countries all over the ME and Africa. Drone attacks were measured in tens under Bush but hundreds under Obama. All I ask is judge this dangerous idiot on his actions not his skin colour.

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  144. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “Explain to KB readers why he was given the Nobel peace prize ? (this should be funny)”

    You’ll have to ask the Nobel Commission. But that is a red herring and irrelevant. It was you that claimed Waihana supported Obama because he was black when he/she said no such thing. That is a strawman no matter which way you cut it.

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  145. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    TheContrarian, bullshit.

    He supports Obama for the same reason the Nobel Commission did.

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  146. graham (2,214 comments) says:

    Chthoniid at 4:21 pm –

    The example you quote of African so-called “Christians” burning a witch is horrific if true. I say “if true” simply because I don’t know about this incident; other than that, I have no reason to disbelieve you.

    If it is true, then those people deserve to be prosecuted and sent to jail for a damn long time. And although I’m not a supporter of capital punishment, it’s cases like that which make me question my opposition to capital punishment. I’m assuming they’re part of a modern society, and not some isolated tribe? As I say, I know nothing about this incident.

    But let’s be very clear – they are not Christians. Oh sure, they may call themselves Christians, but as far as I’m concerned a Christian follows the example of Jesus Christ. And that sort of behaviour is not what the Jesus I believe in would do. He’s the one who healed the lepers and the sick and the crippled.

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  147. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “He supports Obama for the same reason the Nobel Commission did.”

    Still a strawman.

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  148. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I think Weihana can speak for him/her/its self. :)

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  149. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “I think Weihana can speak for him/her/its self.”

    So why then are you making up positions that Weihana holds that have never been stated by Weihana?

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  150. Ross12 (1,143 comments) says:

    Trying to milk the system for more funding !!!

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/newshome/16261559/fracking-report-delayed-more-funding-requested/

    Why would the final report be that much more work on top of an interim report ??

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  151. kowtow (7,581 comments) says:

    Lance

    Come the Green revolution every one will be given a bicycle.

    But comrade I don’t want a bicycle!

    Come the revolution you must use a bicycle……..

    Except of course the Cadres ,who will still have their chauffeur driven BMWs.

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  152. thedavincimode (6,522 comments) says:

    Oh sure, they may call themselves Christians, but as far as I’m concerned a Christian follows the example of Jesus Christ.

    Well exactly graham, or so I used to think because I’m not sure that your take on things is necessarily shared by other correspondents who assert themselves to be of the Christian pursuasion.

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  153. wreck1080 (3,723 comments) says:

    Did Helen Clarks husband move to New York with her?

    Just curious.

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  154. Longknives (4,394 comments) says:

    Wreck- I believe her husband stayed home in Auckland to look after ‘affairs’ .
    I hear there is a stream of young men coming and going..obviously willing to ‘help out’ while she is away…

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  155. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Oh sure, they may call themselves Christians, but as far as I’m concerned a Christian follows the example of Jesus Christ.

    Did I fucking stutter

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  156. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Did I fucking stutter

    Brilliant :)

    How do you link, using words, like that ?

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  157. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    How do you link, using words, like that ?

    http://www.ironspider.ca/format_text/hyperlinks.htm

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  158. graham (2,214 comments) says:

    cha:

    Well … um … exactly. So WHAT if they’re gay or worship other gods?

    A true Christian should still love them, take care of them, and not judge them. If you believe that being gay, for example, is a sin, or morally wrong, or whatever, that doesn’t relieve you from your duty to do these things. You can still be opposed to that aspect of their lifestyle, but love them and take care of them regardless. Just as I am opposed to my step-daughter sleeping with guys she isn’t married to. I believe that particular aspect of her lifestyle is wrong. Doesn’t stop me loving her, caring for her, having her around to dinner, and so on. No more than it did a few years ago when she decided to dabble with Buddhism.

    Good. We seem to be in agreement. No problem. :)

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  159. thedavincimode (6,522 comments) says:

    cha

    Was that Chris Faafoi, 2nd from the right in the crowd scene to the rear?

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  160. Lucia Maria (2,202 comments) says:

    Weihana and Contrarian,

    You both might want to read this page on the subject by NASA: The Center of the Galaxy

    But before long, the popularity of the Copernican System grew until it was the accepted model. Does this mean that it was no longer believed that we were the center of the universe? No. The belief was that the Sun, not the Earth, was at the center of the universe.

    So we were still focused on the idea that there was something special about us. We had simply moved the universal center from our planet to our star. One of the reasons for this is because astronomers saw basically the same numbers of stars in all directions. If we were not the center, they reasoned, then we would see more stars in one direction than another. Since this was not the case, it must be because we were at the center.

    By the latter part of the nineteenth century, a number of star groups called globular clusters had been identified. Globular clusters are large, spherical groups of stars, numbering in the hundreds of thousands, or even millions of stars, and orbit the Milky Way.

    Distances to these globular clusters could be calculated, and the astronomer Harlow Shapley reasoned that if we were at the center of the universe, there should be an even distribution of globular clusters in all directions. However, when he plotted the locations of the globular clusters, he found we were not at the center of the Milky Way, and he was able to make a good estimate of the distance to the true center.

    Then it was established that the Sun was not the center of the universe, but it was still thought that the center of the Milky Way was the center of the universe. It was not until the twentieth century that it was finally established that neither we nor our galaxy formed the center of the universe.

    Note the highlighted part.

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  161. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “Sun was not the center of the universe”

    yeah – so? No one argued the sun was the centre of the universe. The Heliocentric model applies to the solar system not the universe.

    “Heliocentrism, or heliocentricism, is the astronomical model in which the Earth and planets revolve around a stationary Sun at the center of the Solar System.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliocentrism

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  162. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Was that Chris Faafoi, 2nd from the right in the crowd scene to the rear?

    Nah, it’s Victor Vito standing next to Ted.

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  163. nasska (10,611 comments) says:

    graham

    Your faith obviously gives you an outlook on life & the people around you that would be at odds with the average Christian who chooses to comment here. Most seem to assume an all knowing mantle of perfection & piety that would turn off Jesus Christ himself.

    May your God go with you. :)

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  164. Kea (11,878 comments) says:


    test

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  165. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    graham

    I run with the Beatitudes myself.

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  166. thedavincimode (6,522 comments) says:

    fail

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  167. graham (2,214 comments) says:

    nasska: Thank you. I know full well that I don’t know it all, for if I did, well that would make me – um, God? :)

    cha: The Beatitudes are a good starting point to get a handle on Christian living for sure – but only a starting point. Some of the stuff immediately after is a bit of a challenge.

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?

    (Remembering that tax collectors back then were usually pretty dishonest people and not regarded very highly – Jesus still befriended them).

    It’s that sort of thing that I personally have to work at. It’s not that easy to think happy thoughts about the little toe-rags that broke into my house and stole my wife’s inherited, irreplaceable jewellery.

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  168. Pete George (22,739 comments) says:

    I share nasska’s view at 6.16 pm, I’ve had a few arguments with graham and have been aware that he’s Christian but I don’t think that has been much of a factor in debate. I’ve certainly seen him differently to…

    …the average Christian who chooses to comment here. Most seem to assume an all knowing mantle of perfection & piety that would turn off Jesus Christ himself.

    Except I wouldn’t say “average Christian”, the odds are about half of the people commenting here are Christian, the non-Christian-like Christians number just a few but happen to be very regular and vocal – and intolerant of different views and faiths (or lack thereof).

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  169. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    thedavincimode (4,495) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    I think this is more accurate:

    ummmmmmm Tēnā koutou ahhh katoa.

    Ummm ahhhhh Greetings um everyone and thank you for being ahhhh here together on a Sunday mmmmmmmmmm

    It’s great to see so many ummmmmmmmmmmm friendly faces.

    It’s wonderful to to to ummmmmm see so so ahhhhhhh many of you prepared to give up some of your summer break to talk about the future of of of ummmmmmmm our country.

    There is nothing more um important. And nothing more um urgent.

    I can tell you that today I’m refreshed, I’m fired up, and I’m raring to to ummmmmmm ahhhhhhhh go.

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  170. nasska (10,611 comments) says:

    Kea

    You flatter the imbecile….he’s never been that coherent.

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  171. Steve (North Shore) (4,490 comments) says:

    Bit early? never mind.

    Far away in the tropical waters of the Caribbean, two prawns were
    swimming around in the sea – one called Justin and the other called
    Christian. The prawns were constantly being harassed and threatened by
    sharks that inhabited the area.

    Finally one day Justin said to Christian, “I’m fed up with being a
    prawn, I wish I was a shark, then I wouldn’t have any worries about
    being eaten.”

    A large mysterious cod appeared and said, “Your wish is granted”, and
    lo
    and behold, Justin turned into a shark.
    Horrified, Christian immediately swam away, afraid of being eaten by
    his old mate.

    Time passed (as it invariably does) and Justin found life as a shark
    boring and lonely. All his old mates simply swam away whenever he came
    close to them. Justin didn’t realise that his new menacing appearance
    was the cause of his sad plight.

    While swimming alone one day he saw the mysterious cod again and he
    thought perhaps the mysterious fish could change him back into a prawn.

    He approached the cod and begged to be changed back, and, lo and
    behold,
    he found himself turned back into a prawn. With tears of joy in his
    tiny
    little eyes Justin swam back to his friends and bought them all a
    cocktail. (The punch line does not involve a prawn cocktail – it’s much
    worse).

    Looking around the gathering at the reef he realised he couldn’t see
    his
    old pal. “Where’s Christian?” he asked. “He’s at home, still distraught
    that his best friend changed sides to the enemy and became a shark”,
    came the reply.
    Eager to put things right again and end the mutual pain and torture, he
    set off to Christian’s abode. As he opened the coral gate memories came
    flooding back. He banged on the door and shouted, “It’s me, Justin,
    your
    old friend, come out and see me again”

    Christian replied, “No way man, you’ll eat me. You’re now a shark, the
    enemy, and I’ll not be tricked into being your dinner. ” Justin cried
    back “No, I’m not. That was the old me. I’ve changed.”…………….
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> “I’ve found Cod. I’m a prawn again Christian”.
    >>>

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  172. noskire (831 comments) says:

    Just responded to an online poll from SAYit which seems to be nearly identical to the one I completed about a month ago. I’m guessing it was commissioned by Labour or the Gweens.

    Main points were how do you think the Govt handled the school restructure in Chch, smoking, state of the economy and your personal financial situation, oh, and The Hobbit – plus what are your political allegiances.

    The Left looking for an attack angle I guess?

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  173. Lucia Maria (2,202 comments) says:

    Contrarian,

    “Sun was not the center of the universe”

    yeah – so? No one argued the sun was the centre of the universe. The Heliocentric model applies to the solar system not the universe.

    You obviously missed the beginning of the conversation with Weihana, where he was arguing the following:

    Until more evidence came to hand? lol. Yeah right, THAT’s how it happened. New evidence came to hand and the Catholic Church said “Oh really? Wow looks like we were wrong.. okay let everyone know that we were wrong”.

    Copernicus came up with his theory of heliocentrism in about 1514. The theory was either ignored or criticized as being a mathematical fiction. How could it be anything else? Scripture says otherwise therefore he must be wrong!

    When observations “came to hand” that confirmed the theory did the Church accept it? Of course not. They doubled down on scripture and prosecuted Galileo for heresy. Not until the 1800s did the heliocentric theory get removed from the censorship list.

    The heliocentric theory, as referred to above at the time of Copernicus and Galileo included this concept of the sun being the centre of the universe, with everything else rotating around it. So, I just wanted to know if Weihana believed that the sun was the centre of the universe, as Galileo did.

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  174. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    You said:
    “You know that the theory of heliocentrism (which places our sun at the centre of the universe) is not actually correct, don’t you?”

    The theory of heliocentrism does not place the sun in the centre of the universe (though it once did – 100′s of years ago)

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  175. Andrei (2,499 comments) says:

    the non-Christian-like Christians number just a few but happen to be very regular and vocal

    Translation: the non-Christian-like Christians – people who don’t go along with the secular agenda but hold fast to the teachings of the Church.

    The Soviet Union got the demonization and mockery of Christians down to a fine art. The damage the Soviets did to the people will take another generation to completly repair but the intellectual heirs to the Soviets are playing the same game in the West

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  176. Lucia Maria (2,202 comments) says:

    Contrarian,

    Yes I know what I said. I could have been far more specific in that comment, heck, actually I was. I clarified it with “(which places our sun at the centre of the universe)”, which should have been further clarified with “as believed by Galileo”, but I though the one clarification was enough. Obviously wrong on that point, given you misunderstood what I was talking about.

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  177. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    “The Soviet Union got the demonization and mockery of religion down to a fine art”

    Fixed that for you buddy

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  178. TheContrarian (1,073 comments) says:

    You said the heliocentric model was wrong becuase it placed the sun at the centre of the universe, which is incorrect.

    I’m sorry I got you wrong but there wasn’t much else to go on

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  179. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    To much more important Matters of the day.
    Children time to go to bed.

    A review sparked by the Kim Dotcom case has found that the Government Communications Security Bureau did not unlawfully spy on anyone else.
    The review of cases dating back to the beginning of 2009 where the Government Communications Security Bureau provided assistance to New Zealand law enforcement agencies has found the Bureau was not in breach of its 2003 Act. +
    .http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/8365327/GCSBs-conduct-found-to-be-lawful
    ———————————–

    So it would seem that the FBI or their freindly sidekicks at NZ police must have used persuasive powers to get GCSB to break the law thinking they would get away scot free.

    Time for somme resignations and loss of pay IMHO.

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  180. Pete George (22,739 comments) says:

    Whoa, I bet this freaks out some alterantive bloggees.

    Roy Morgan Poll:
    National Party to 47.5% (up 3.5% since early February and the highest since July 9-22, 2012)
    Maori Party 2.5% (up 2%)
    ACT NZ 0.5% (unchanged)
    United Future 0.5% (up 0.5%)

    Labour is 30.5% (down 4%)
    Greens are 12.5% (down 1%)
    New Zealand First 3% (down 1%)
    Mana Party 0.5% (unchanged)
    Conservative Party of NZ 2% (unchanged)
    Others 0.5% (unchanged)

    Maybe 3 News/Reid Research wasn’t so far out.

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  181. nasska (10,611 comments) says:

    A little boy once returned home from Sunday School and his father asked, “What did you learn today?”

    He answered, “The Teacher told us how Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt.”

    “How?”

    The boy said “Moses was a big strong man and he beat Pharoah
    up. Then while he was down, he got all the people together
    and ran towards the sea. When he got there, he has the
    Engineers build a huge pontoon bridge. Once they got on
    the other side, they blew up the bridge while the
    Egyptians were trying to cross.”

    The father was shocked. “Is that what the Teacher taught you?”

    The boy replied, “No. But you would never believe the bullshit
    she DID tell us!”

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  182. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    The Pope steps down as The Pope. He looks for alternative employment.

    He spends three weeks as an adventure counselor shepherding groups of christian youths to the foothills of Mt Everest.
    On the fourth week he is fired.
    He queries the Camp Director who produces a tape recording of The Pope talking to Christian Youths..
    The evidence speaks for itself:

    On the tape, the Pope is querying, Eager Youth (E.Y.):
    “Are you looking forward to climbing new and greater heights?”
    E.Y.: “Yes I am”.

    Pope: “Are you fully prepared my son”?
    E.Y.: ” Yes I am”

    Pope: ” And if we were to scale the foothills of Mt Everest and needed to stay overnight before descending, would you feel comfortable with that ,my son”?
    EY: “Yes I would”.

    Pope: ” And if you woke up in the morning and your sleeping bag was around your ankles and you were bleeding out your anus, would you tell anyone”?
    EY: ” Yes I would”.

    Pope: “Fuck that I’m not taking you camping”.

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  183. nasska (10,611 comments) says:

    In the beginning there was nothing.
    God said, “Let there be light!” And there was light.
    There was still nothing, but you could see it a whole lot better.

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  184. Steve (North Shore) (4,490 comments) says:

    The Police are wasting amunition shooting sharks.
    One bullet is all it takes.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10868385&ref=rss

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  185. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Roses are red, violets are glorious.
    Never creep up On Oscar Pistorius.

    Anyone making jokes about Oscar Pistorius are just prosthetic!

    Too many Oscar Pistorius jokes already. Trying to come up with a new one is like taking a shot in the dark.

    And the Oscar goes to…. Jail

    New evidence has been found outside the Pistorius home that completely acquits him of his girlfriend’s murder.
    Footprints.

    She didn’t notice Oscar sneaking up behind her. It was the silence of the limbs.

    I see what Pistorius is doing. He is going to jail for 25 years and when he gets released… Bam! President of South Africa. That’s how it works over there, right?

    When Oscar Pistorius said he wanted to be just like able bodied athletes, who knew he meant OJ Simpson?

    First Tiger Woods, then Lance Armstrong, and now Oscar Pistorius. I think Nike should start telling their athletes “Don’t Do It”

    Yeah well… If found guilty he’s gonna have to take it on the shin

    This Oscar Pistorius story is all a bit strange, isn’t it? There must definitely be more to it. He seemed so happy just the other day, he had such a spring in his step

    Oscar clearly misunderstood when his girlfriend told him that on Valentine’s Day he had to take her out.

    I guess that he is guilty – hasn’t got a leg to stand on.

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  186. nasska (10,611 comments) says:

    Oscar Pistorius has an incredible record of wins to his name.
    Six gold medals, four silver medals and one argument.

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/v9k0khwjwl561xx/Escape.jpg

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  187. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    http://video.theaustralian.com.au/2339383725/Biggest-ever-ice-bust?area=endslate4

    half a billion of ice.

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  188. Johnboy (14,876 comments) says:

    Pistorius is such a strange name.

    Sort of like a combo of “Pissed” and “Glorious” really.

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  189. wat dabney (3,655 comments) says:

    people who don’t go along with the secular agenda…

    The what?

    Reality is now dismissed as an “agenda”?

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  190. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    More awful news for the warmists

    Ironic these are the same places that supply much of worlds oil.

    Modern Marvels – Desert tech – History Channel Documentary

    Desert landscapes cover nearly half of the world’s surface. Luckily, amazing innovations in irrigation and solar power have allowed humans to turn dry, barren stretches into vibrant, thriving communities. This episode of MODERN MARVELS reveals the incredible technologies that allow cities such as Las Vegas, Phoenix, and Los Angeles to exist despite harsh natural conditions.
    It’s hot, dry, deadly, and hard to ignore with close to 40% of Earth classified as desert. But in this scorching hour, the desert turns from barren wasteland into an environment rich with hope. In the Middle East, desalination of seawater now fills water needs. Americans have created booming desert communities like Las Vegas, where the Hoover Dam produces hydroelectric power and manmade Lake Mead supplies water. Native Americans farmed the desert on a small scale, but 20th-century technology begot greater opportunity. Once desolate areas of California and Mexico now grow agriculture due to irrigation, and the desert’s abundant sunshine allows solar-energy and wind-power production. And in the future, desert technology may enable colonization of planets like Mars. We also take a look at how refrigeration and air conditioning have made life in desert communities tolerable, and examine the latest in survival gear and equipment

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO8GDYuwcqA

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  191. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Things get worse for the Aussies.

    New Mercedes-Benz A-Class is cheaper than a Holden Commodore –

    And despite the $35,600 price tag, the Mercedes-Benz A-Class hatchback has more standard equipment than a $35,990 Holden Commodore SV6 sedan. –

    See more at: http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/national/new-mercedes-benz-a-class-is-cheaper-than-a-holden-commodore/story-fncyva0b-1226587139606#sthash.ELmR0GnW.dpuf

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  192. Johnboy (14,876 comments) says:

    I’ve just claimed prospecting rights on each side of the Desert Road Kea.

    Do you want to get in and buy some shares at rock bottom prices? :)

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  193. Johnboy (14,876 comments) says:

    But neither of them are as reliable as a $25,000 Toyota Corolla V2! :)

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  194. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    I’ve just claimed prospecting rights on each side of the Desert Road Kea.

    Do you want to get in and buy some shares at rock bottom prices?

    Hell yes. We can dig for minerals and oil. Maybe build a resort for hard working Jap Whalers to come and relax. We can open an exclusive restaurant selling Whale meat, and a shop selling a line of clothing featuring Harp Seal fur. Oh and a shrine to the Nazis.

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  195. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Mercedes hogged three of the seven slots for least reliable: the SL, the CLK and the V6 SLK.

    Among mid-sized SUVs, the M-class, a quality disaster when it first came out, still ranks as the least reliable in its grouping.

    Other luxury manufacturers turn up on the least reliable list, with BMWs, Jaguars and Cadillacs sprinkled throughout.

    But what is striking about Mercedes’ performance is its consistency. Of the 11 models reviewed by Consumers, none are recommended. Seven are left off of the list because of poor reliability; the remaining four are considered too new to predict.

    Mercedes has the worst record of any automaker with that many models. For a brand that claims to be “engineered like no other car in the world,” that is fairly frightening.

    If it has not got “Made in Japan” written on it, it’s broken. Toyota Corolla is the best car ever made.

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  196. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    Desertification, not a nice word. 40,000 elephants died because of one mans belief that they were the driving cause of it but it turns out that to save the great grasslands it’s the opposite, cattle was needed.

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  197. Azeraph (603 comments) says:

    http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20627606.100-living-in-denial-why-sensible-people-reject-the-truth.html?full=true

    An interesting profile of a denier by Martin McKee, an epidemiologist at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine:

    1. Allege that there’s a conspiracy. Claim that scientific consensus has arisen through collusion rather than the accumulation of evidence.
    2. Use fake experts to support your story. “Denial always starts with a cadre of pseudo-experts with some credentials that create a facade of credibility,” says Seth Kalichman of the University of Connecticut.
    3. Cherry-pick the evidence: trumpet whatever appears to support your case and ignore or rubbish the rest. Carry on trotting out supportive evidence even after it has been discredited.
    4. Create impossible standards for your opponents. Claim that the existing evidence is not good enough and demand more. If your opponent comes up with evidence you have demanded, move the goalposts.
    5. Use logical fallacies. Hitler opposed smoking, so anti-smoking measures are Nazi. Deliberately misrepresent the scientific consensus and then knock down your straw man.
    6. Manufacture doubt. Falsely portray scientists as so divided that basing policy on their advice would be premature. Insist “both sides” must be heard and cry censorship when “dissenting” arguments or experts are rejected.

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  198. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Kea (2,266) Says:
    February 28th, 2013 at 9:59 pm

    If it has not got “Made in Japan” written on it, it’s broken. Toyota Corolla is the best car ever made.
    ——————————-
    Not in Aussie Kea.
    gotta be a Holden or a Ford. The aussies know best.

    Toyoto’s are up there but have had several Nissans and can’t fault them The ceifero wagon that I have is great . V6, lots of bags, great to drive lay down seats which is great for my job, upward opening back window for the long stuff and built well before most of the othrs even got close.
    Need to find another one shortly..

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  199. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Property market at risk of ‘sharp correction’
    ROB STOCK
    Last updated 05:00 01/03/2013

    Financial ratings agency Standard & Poor’s says there is a significant risk of a property crash in New Zealand.

    S&P, which has come in for criticism over its failures to adequately assess risk on many investments in the run-up to the Global Financial Crisis, said its “base case scenario” was for medium-term real estate prices continuing to stabilise at current levels.

    But credit analyst Nico DeLange said: “We are of the opinion that a significant risk remains of a sharp correction in property prices occurring given the uncertain short-to medium term outlook for the global economy.”

    Such an event would have a flow-on impact on the ratings of New Zealand’s banks. DeLange said: “This could potentially lead to a build-up of economic risks, resulting in the lowering of the economic risk score of New Zealand to ‘4′ from ‘3′. Such a change could have a direct impact on the stand-alone credit profile of New Zealand banks, and the issuer credit ratings of banks in New Zealand.”

    Yesterday Finance Minister Bill English indicated new rules that could take some of the heat out of housing market could be in place by mid-year.
    ———————————
    So it looks like the Poor Standard moiney rating spruikers whoi didn’t predict the GFC are now running around without any basis of fact and trying to kill the property market.
    These useless pricks should be told to take their ratings and stick them up their own arse.

    Worse is that stupid bloody English is running around along with Wheeler trying to manage the market. Doomed to failure.
    No one with any brain power would take any cognisance of these poor standards. Smart people do their own search these days and can form their own opinions.
    I supose the long suffering taxpayer is also paying for this useless non factual emotional advice.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8367191/Property-market-at-risk-of-sharp-correction

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  200. Viking2 (11,125 comments) says:

    Jetstar
    You really do suck.
    What a bunch of fuckwits of low intelligence.

    Jetstar refused to shift a booking for the mother of shark victim Adam Strange to fly to Auckland after his death.

    Jeanette Strange, of Paraparaumu, had already booked return flights from Wellington to visit her son next week.

    But after police broke the news to her on Wednesday of her son’s death at Muriwai Beach, her sister rang Jetstar to transfer the booking, telling the airline about the horrific reasons for the change.

    “They put me on hold for 10 minutes to talk to a supervisor, then said they were very sorry but could not transfer the booking. She would have to pay $321 for a new ticket,” sister Kay Cresswell said yesterday.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/8367120/Jetstar-shock-for-shark-victims-mum

    But wait there is much better.

    Thumbs up to Air NZ.
    She then contacted Air New Zealand, and was told there were two seats left on a flight to Auckland.

    When they arrived at Wellington Airport the flight was full, but police had already notified the airline of their arrival, and it gave Mrs Strange a discounted seat.

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  201. UglyTruth (3,934 comments) says:

    1. Allege that there’s a conspiracy.

    This reinforces the assumption that a conspiracy involving AGW could not possibly exist.
    The existence of stratospheric aerosol geoengineering (chemtrails) is evidence of conspiracy

    http://iaincarstairs.wordpress.com/2013/02/15/the-reality-of-chemical-spraying/

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