Ansell v Jackson

March 8th, 2013 at 2:00 pm by David Farrar

labeled John Ansell a racist and a fool in Truth. He said:

Treatygate is a nonsensical racist campaign where Ansell and a few rednecks go around the country spouting about what they perceive as inequality and Maori privilege.

I met Ansell by accident in Waitangi. He is a more than cordial type of bloke. I said to him I thought he was a racist, and so he challenged me to have him on our RadioLIVE talkback show.

Ansell spent two hours with me and John Tamihere last week and absolutely confirmed my view he is a racist and a liar.

Ansell has responded in Truth saying Jackson is a “chronic liar” who fools no-one:

Maori bully boys and extortionists like Willie Jackson like to get down in the sewer and call critics like me racist.

It’s just a trick, and it doesn’t work on me.

So why does Jackson throw mud instead of facts? Because he knows he  can’t compete on the history. He hasn’t got a clue about what happened between the Crown and Maori in the nineteenth century. So he just spits out an endless stream of half-truths and lies, and hopes you’ll believe him. He’s a chronic liar.

There is, of course, a big difference between criticism and racism. I’ve never said anything racist. That’s not me.

But I’m very critical of Maori leaders who have a financial interest in keeping their people at the bottom of all the bad stats. That way they can keep claiming the big bucks – most of which they keep for themselves…

The debate continues!

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84 Responses to “Ansell v Jackson”

  1. gazzmaniac (2,317 comments) says:

    My take on this –
    No-name number 1 says no-name number 2 is racist and gets him onto his radio show on a talkback station that nobody listens to. He then repeats that he thinks no-name number 2 is racist in a third rate newspaper that nobody reads run by the country’s biggest troll who slightly better known than a no-name because his trolling sometimes makes it on to the TV.
    No name number 2 gets a right of reply in the unread newspaper and calls no-name number 1 a liar.

    Why is this news?

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  2. Brian Marshall (187 comments) says:

    But Gazz, John Ansell states facts. If he was wrong wouldn’t it be easy to show the facts wrong? When anyone of colour is attacked and the facts can’t be disproven, the usual recourse is that the accuser is racist.
    Now tell me what has John Ansell actually stated that is wrong? Then we get real debate and not just the usual racist accusation from Maori.

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  3. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Yep, hooray for the hero John ANsell.

    Doing and saying what John Key and the National Party should have the balls to be doing.

    John seeks truth.

    Weak as water National and its racist separatist cronies, entwined in a sick self serving treaty gravy train embrace, just continue to promote a dishonest scam on the New Zealand people.

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  4. Fisiani (953 comments) says:

    Willy Jackson persists in calling John Ansell a racist when he cannot quote a single racist thing that Ansell said. Jackson thinks that his bluster and use of the R word will suffice for cogent argument. Have a look at John Ansell Treatygate blog and see if you can find a single sentence used by Ansell that is racist. You will search in vain.
    John Ansell is an accomplished speaker and has spent the last year researching New Zealand history almost full time.
    Ansell v Jackson was a a battle of wits. But only John came armed.

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  5. Manolo (13,367 comments) says:

    Good on you, John Ansell!

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  6. Viking2 (11,128 comments) says:

    Long past time we started listening to people Like Ansell and Muriel Newman and those that assist with the research that goes into their work.

    Long past time we ditched the Maori view of everything and replaced it with fact based on proper research rather than mumbo jumbo talking stick taniwha laced rubbish.

    More strength to their cause.

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  7. gazzmaniac (2,317 comments) says:

    Brian – I didn’t state an opinion on what I think about John Ansell or Willie Jackson. The only thing that anyone should have read into my comment was that I don’t think it’s newsworthy.
    I could have phrased it “black man calls white guy racist, then white guy calls him a liar” but even then it’s still not newsworthy.

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  8. David Garrett (6,410 comments) says:

    Only slightly off topic…I was speaking to a Maori friend the other day (not Wahine) and the subject of “Treatygate” came up….while she is more of the Jackson than Ansell camp, my friend readily agreed with Richard Prebble’s classic statement that “the average Maori hasn’t seen so much as a snapper from the Sealord deal”, and that it would always be so, regardless of the the settlment was, while “ordinary” Maori like her let the Maori elites get away with all the dough…

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  9. Redbaiter (7,619 comments) says:

    Let’s back the Little Willie Jackson cart back up a bit here.

    Calling someone racist is nothing new, and its not by any means singular to Willie Jackson.

    Plenty of whining white liberals can’t wait to hurl the word at their ideological opponents.

    For example, those opposed to the dilution of our traditional NZ culture through multi-culturalism have to defend against that smear everyday.

    Those who didn’t want NZ farms sold the the Chines Communist government are also constantly called racist.

    Homophobic, sexist, deniers, are all pejorative terms used in just the same way by people who likewise don’t have real arguments, and just want to demonize and shut down any opposing voice.

    Little Willie Jackson..??

    Pffft, he’s just the tip of the fucking iceberg mate. This country is awash in such progressive Marxist bullshit.

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  10. Longknives (4,455 comments) says:

    I saw Willie Jackson on TV a few months ago (can’t remember what the show was) and the reporter was (for once) fairly balanced and asking legitimate questions.
    All Willie could come back with was “You’re ignorant” or “You’re ignorant and you need educated”
    Kind of reminded me of South Park…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHqgHFcmAOc

    If you’re not familiar with the show whenever anyone accuses Michael Jackson of anything (Child Molestation, having Plastic Surgery, being dead etc etc) he always responds with “You’re Ignorant”……

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  11. Data (22 comments) says:

    David Garrett, the Sealord deal was between Ngai Tahu and the Crown. It was in response to the specific loss of Ngai Tahu’s deep sea fishing fleet. Ngai Tahu orginally supplied the early European colonists with fish, but lost the ability to maintain its deep sea fishing fleet, because of the loss of land (loss of ability to raise captial). Only Ngai Tahu members are meant to benefit from the Sealord deal, not all Maori. I suggest you talk to Ngai Tahu members because there is a wide range of benefits avaliable to them based on profits from Sealord. I would also suggest you actually read the Sealord case, it is very interesting and might change some of your views about Maori.

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  12. WineOh (550 comments) says:

    Actually I heard the session on Newstalk Radio, it was a couple of weeks back with John Tamahere and Willy Jackson trying to give it to John Ansell. Both sides of the argument were quoting historical research studies in academia that seemed to contradict each other.

    To John’s credit he stayed cool under pressure and maintained his line even under serious baiting. It seemed to me like the sheer volume of academic work that pointed to Maoridom being very hard done by over the years, especially in the 20 years immediately after the signing of ToW. I didn’t agree with everything he said, but came across as a kind of chap that I would love to have around to dinner to share a good meal and have a lively discussion over a few classy wines.

    The crux of the interview session seemed to be:
    [Willy & JT] – John you’re full of rubbish, you’re wrong.
    [JA] – read the research, specifically authors A, B,C. I estimate the value of government expenditure exclusively towards Maori at $3.5 billion per year (I can’t recall the specific number)
    [Willy & JT] – Nah thats crap John. Our listeners don’t agree with you.

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  13. Jack5 (4,589 comments) says:

    Data posted at 4.14:

    …the Sealord deal was between Ngai Tahu and the Crown. It was in response to the specific loss of Ngai Tahu’s deep sea fishing fleet. Ngai Tahu orginally supplied the early European colonists with fish, but lost the ability to maintain its deep sea fishing fleet, because of the loss of land (loss of ability to raise captial).

    Ngai Tahu never had a deep sea fishing fleet before European settlement. When modernity arrived with sealers and whalers from Australia and the United States, Ngai Tahu had a handful of rivermouth villages in the south, 1000 acres or less under cultivation near Bluff, and canoes. They had no (no) deep-sea vessels.

    Foreign crewed and owned ships harvested the seas, though they soon were taking on Maori as crew members. The famous Paddy Gilroy, of the Chance, was an example of this. But the initiative, the ships, the leadership, the knowledge that developed the southern whale and seal fisheries – all of these came from ethnic Europeans. Even the first ships built in the south were by sealers and whalers in such hell holes (for living) as southern Fiordland.

    When the Scots, and to lesser extent Irish, settled mainland Southland and Otago, fish supply was of minor significance, and supply was at least as much from settler fishermen as from Maori.

    It’s incorrect to assert the loss of land meant the tribe could no longer raise capital. Virtually nowhere in the world nor at any stage of history has ability to raise capital been limited by ownership of land. Current examples of the nonsense of this assertion include Singapore and Hong Kong.

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  14. thor42 (916 comments) says:

    I fully agree with the pro-John-Ansell comments here.

    Willy J is completely out of his depth. He hasn’t got a CLUE about history, so he resorts to the only thing he knows – the “racist” taunt. This is complete BS – Ansell is *not* anything LIKE racist. He is simply a straight-talking, well-researched person, and losers like Willy J can’t hack it with him.

    I only hope that Ansell sets up a political party (and *soon*). I’m sure he could get 5% of the vote. If Winston First can, then Ansell can.

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  15. krazykiwi (9,189 comments) says:

    John is a prodigious reader. His collection of books on the history of NZ, some dating back to the 19th century, would be pretty much unrivalled in NZ. He’s read the lot, many more than once and so I’d rate him as an expert on the subject of Maori/European relations.

    My view is that he speaks knowledgeably on the facts, and my experience is that he does this without venom. That some people have a problem with this suggests they find the truth unpalatable. Tough.

    More power to you John.

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  16. Data (22 comments) says:

    Jack5 you are correct that Ngai Tahu had to rely on whaling boats for their fisheries. There is limited evidence that Ngai Tahu fished at significant distance from shore prior to European arrival. After European arrival, however, they combined their local knowledge with European technology to dominant the local fishing industry. See

    “European contact allowed Ngai Tahu to adopt technological advances suited to their fishery such as iron barbed hooks, oars and rollocks and eventually sealing and whale boats. This process was well under way prior to the Treaty, and continued in the decades immediately following.”

    “or the two decades immediately following the signing of the Treaty, Ngai Tahu continued fishing without any significant involvement by Europeans apart from the European’s diminishing activity in sealing and whaling”

    “European commercial fishing began slowly in the 1860s. For some time the settlers lacked the detailed knowledge possesed by Ngai Tahu of the location of good fishing grounds. European involvement accelerated in the 1870s and continued to grow thereafter”

    http://www.waitangi-tribunal.govt.nz/reports/viewchapter.asp?reportID=469d396b-ce85-4e30-b04f-a39dc8d03f38&chapter=57

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  17. jaba (2,089 comments) says:

    Willie is a failed politician, had a TV show canned and now gets his national recognition by way of a radio show, where JT and sometime host Rodney Hide outshine him.
    Riddle me this, if Willie was 100% honky, would anyone but family and friends have ever heard of him .. I suggest NO. The same could be said of 100′s of nationally recognised “Maori” like Kenneth Mair, Mike Smith, Margaret Mutu and the freak Annette Sykes.
    These people destroy non Maori perception of them. I would say that a vast majority of Maori just want to get on with life but maintain their Maori ancestry in a way that makes them proud.

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  18. Reid (15,942 comments) says:

    That some people have a problem with this suggests they find the truth unpalatable.

    The real issue is “the truth” is interpreted to be whatever “the victims” claim it to be, based on oral histories passed down amongst the whanau until being aired in a [taxpayer-funded] official venue at which point, despite Crown Historians presenting counter-point after counter-point, “the truth” gets written into the official record.

    At which point “the truth” then it becomes undeniable, unassailable, unchallengeable, with all the unlimited resources of officialdom behind it to strike down with great fury anyone temeritous enough to challenge “the truth.”

    Of course some years after “the truth” has thus entered the official anatomy it generates all the ensuing activity and paraphernalia such as case law, “truth” units embedded into every single govt dept to ensure “the truth” is propagated throughout every single thing said depts do, as befits the contrite “bully,” appropriate recompense to “the victims,” etc, etc, etc.

    After a few more years, the media, being wise, insightful, faithful, truth-seeking watchdogs of “the truth” and faithfully reflecting the brave new society we all now live in, notice all of this official contrition and proceed to internalise “the truth” being the incredibly “advanced thinkers” that they in fact all are. Thus equipped they proceed to purvey “the truth” to the general public, the great unwashed, the ders, the fools who can’t think for themselves, the people who won’t get it, at all, ever, unless and until the media tells them what to: i.e. all of us (apparently, according to the media, judging from the way they present to us “the truth”): i.e. with mindless male and female bimbos having a seemingly casual chat about this and that with the occasional “truth” bite thrown in lest we get all scared and put off and furrow-browed by the enormous complexity of said “truth.”

    The whole thing would be a huge fucking laugh at the local community theatre wouldn’t it. That is, if this wasn’t really what is actually happening, and we weren’t paying for the whole thing.

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  19. duggledog (1,356 comments) says:

    Willie Jackson is one of the many Maori mouthpieces who I believe history will not remember fondly. Simply, his rhetoric, although on the surface sometimes reasonable and well-informed, nonetheless only serves to entrench hatred and resentment among Maori, especially young Maori men.

    It’s not unusual today to meet Maori who really do want us all to go home to England or wherever, because this is ‘stolen land’. It’s all going to end in tears

    People like Jackson should have a more positive message: education, education, education, smaller families, get a job and improve your lot in life, but no. They continue to spout inflammatory diatribes with the end result being increasing alienation of young Maori, as they continue to make the news every night for all the wrong reasons. He’s painting his people into a corner. They all are. Everyone else is getting sick to death of it.

    NZ’s demographic is changing, and the immigrants pouring in to pay for our champagne-on-a-beer-budget lifestyle are saying: WTF? Ask a Chinese immigrant where they stand on Maori water rights.

    John Ansell is a brave, brave man. He needs to be more articulate though, I didn’t rate his performance with Willie and JT on the radio the other day. Surely he saw how they dealt with the old boy Crimp from the deep south. Fish in a barrel

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  20. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    Yeah….John needs to speak better and with more conviction…..If he has the truth with him then ram it home with quality…

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  21. Chuck Bird (4,682 comments) says:

    These people destroy non Maori perception of them. I would say that a vast majority of Maori just want to get on with life but maintain their Maori ancestry in a way that makes them proud.

    Well said jaba

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  22. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Yeah Maori just want to be what Pakeha want them to be – politically tamed.

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  23. Reid (15,942 comments) says:

    John Ansell is a brave, brave man. He needs to be more articulate though, I didn’t rate his performance with Willie and JT on the radio the other day. Surely he saw how they dealt with the old boy Crimp from the deep south. Fish in a barrel

    Just listened to the interview and thinking to myself: why do people not get that just because historians and universities say something, this doesn’t mean it’s true?

    University is supposed to teach one how to think. Independently.

    But Jackson’s first point is: “how come none of the universities/politicians etc support Ansell’s proposition?” Well duh. See my 6:29 for how it really works. The evidence of crown historians, according to a crown historian, is ignored in the official fora. There’s a political freight train behind the tweaty and its unstoppable. Take that away and let’s see if the emperor has no clothes. But we’re not allowed to, by the freight train, represented by Willie and John.

    Jackson’s second point is: the race card. Ansell’s response: doesn’t matter what you think, what matters is what the truth is. Jackson then repeats point one: the law says Maori favourtism is embedded in law, therefore it’s OK. Ansell invites Jackson to poll the public, but he refuses to.

    Jackson’s second point is: he finds it disturbing John denies the legitimacy of the claims. John clarifies he only denies their legitimacy since 1985. Jackson turns back to the law and claims the law justifies them. (Circular argument anyone?)

    Jackson points to the education system because it used to actively discriminate against Maori. Ansell points out it now actively discriminates in favour of Maori. Jackson turns again to his circular argument: “govts have recognised the discwimination.” Ansell points out it was Maori who petitioned the state to teach Maori English.

    Jackson pretends it’s not his legal system, it’s the white man’s.

    I think Ansell did an utterly brilliant job. He’s got amazing guts. How many of us would risk livelihood, reputation and all the rest of what he is risking to do nothing for his own enrichment but rather to spread the truth as he believes it and for which he has clearly sacrificed thousands of hours of his own time to study and become articulate in?

    His reward for all this will be derision, hatred and condemnation by the ignorant and the misinformed. Who, in this field, number in the hundreds of thousands if not in the one or two million.

    Against the few of us wise enough to forget the emotion and consider his wisdom for what it may in fact be: the unvarnished, difficult, unpalatable FACTS.

    He’ll be excoriated throughout the land. Guaranteed. This doesn’t change the FACTS behind his message.

    You want to argue?

    Argue the FACTS.

    IMO, Willie and JT, despite their [relative to most formidable] media and political savvy, were decimated, left gasping like a fish just landed on the boat, without air, their wretched, worthless worldly perspective stripped bare by someone articulate enough to counter their every superficial transparent move to generate in their listeners the emotion required to overcome the FACTS enunciated by the Ansell elucidation.

    I wouldn’t have the guts to do what he is doing but he deserves the thanks and praise of those who think. Of those who recognise the fallacy inherent in the PC psychobabble bullshit racist machine which has and continues to corrupt the institutions we all pay for and which purport to reflect what we believe. Those institutions are critical to shaping not only today’s society but that which our children inherit. At the moment it’s way off beam, not only because of the issues Ansell raises, but those issues are a major part of generating the dysfunction we have in our society today.

    If this country had any justice and common sense whatsoever, Ansell would be a frequent and honoured guest on all the major media shows and he’d already be a Companion of Honour on his way to an ONZ.

    But no. The laughable freight train meme called Te Tiriti continues apace, gathering bullshit after bollocks after crap, as it teaches all the children – ALL the children – that we MUST, we MUST, redwess the tewwible tewwible twagedy by generating a special class of citizen and making them so in all our govt-funded institutions from eduction to health to…………………..

    And Ansell, as it gathers speed, is the only one putting his head above the parapet.

    Isn’t he.

    What does that say about the rest of us, who have ears to hear and eyes to see?

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  24. Nostalgia-NZ (4,910 comments) says:

    It says you’re in fantasy land Reid.

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  25. wiseowl (760 comments) says:

    Yes John is a hero.

    The current crop of politicians dont have the balls to seek out and demand the historical truth that needs to be injected in to the currently biased debate on Treaty issues.

    This fine country is being ruined by both National and Labour.

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  26. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    Willie Jackson will stop at nothing to discredit John. In his Truth article he claims John defined Taonga as “spear”. I listened to the interview John clearly defined it as “property obtained by the spear” Jackson knows that because he claimed to have asked several Maori linguists for their opinions, yet he still completely distorts it in the Truth piece. Judge for yourselves why he would do that but it certainly doesn’t reflect well on him and casts serious doubt over anything he says.
    Go John Ansell!

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  27. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    Thanks guys, heartwarming stuff from where I’m sitting. It’s not easy, but certainly easier when I read comments like (most of) yours.

    I’ll soon be forming an organisation with the potential to become a single-issue political party if the support is there.

    Check out http://www.treatygate.org.nz for more.

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  28. KevinH (1,131 comments) says:

    Waitangi this year was relatively a subdued affair, protest activity was minimal, the day was hot and brilliantly fine, tourists were there in record numbers, and the waka that pulled up onto the beach on the foreshore of Te Tii were a splendid sight. There wasn’t any antagonism or conflict, to the contrary there was a sense of occasion, a sense of celebration, and for those who made the effort to go there and experience this day, a sense of being, we are New Zealanders.
    This day has in the past been dominated by politics from the self interested, however the tide is turning, the people are coming to share in the experience of our nations birthday, a day to be celebrated , a day to be enjoyed, and a day to set aside your bias and prejudices.
    This year I accompanied a group of children from Auckland , a multicultural group, and left them to form their own opinions of the day. They had a ball and soaked up the sights and sounds of the day, had a good lunch and enjoyed a swim in Waitangi’s warm waters. These children will go forward into the future buoyant and positive and will acknowledge Waitangi Day as our nations birthday without the baggage of the past.

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  29. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    Sounds like what I heard as well, which is encouraging.

    And it’s interesting that most of the posters on this one don’t actually realise that John Ansell
    s pontification and protesting at Waitangi is exactly the same as Hone’s whanau protesting at Waitangi. Oh, no, there’s a difference… they illogically conclude. Even John himself seems to be blissfully aware of this obvious fact – complaining that he has been ejected and treated unfairly.

    I imagine these exact same conversations happening in reverse, in Maori, somewhere out there, but a similar set of outliers.

    But I guess John is serving good purpose here – he’s taking a lot of scared, outliers suffering from intense fear and uncertaintly, putting them under his arm and giving them all something to believe in…

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  30. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    Hone’s whanau believe in racial favouritism. (And that some members of the favoured race are more equal than others.)

    I believe in racial equality.

    What do you believe in?

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  31. RandySavage (196 comments) says:

    Ansell hit the redneck jackpot once in Orewa, ever since hes been a joke at best. Hes about to launch a one issue party because thats the only issue he has to cling to
    A toothless dinosaur

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  32. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Data (3) Says:
    March 8th, 2013 at 4:14 pm …..

    “Deep sea fishing fleet….”. What are you smoking? or have you been reading the rewritten fairy tales from the Waitangi Tribunal…..

    The only reason maori ever went to sea was because they were ejected from their pacific island homeland for being a bunch of evil buggers.

    It goes like this: Most pacific islands do not practice capital punishment – or did not 1000 years ago.
    But what did they do with no-gooders? The trouble makers.

    Well they put them on boats and said “bugger off – and dont come back”
    Thats the only reason for the ‘Magnificant Migrations’ that maori were supposed to undertake.

    Maori didnt navigate by the stars – The trouble makers were kicked out from their home island and they either got lucky and landed in NZ or the perished at sea. Thats the only reason they went to sea – ever.

    There is no trace of deep sea-going boats (because as typical trouble makers as soon as they landed they abandoned the boats that luckily got them here – and they werent ocean going boats either.

    This also explains the violence among maori – because you dont see anything like the violence among other pacific islanders – not the same type of violence anyway.

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  33. duggledog (1,356 comments) says:

    Barry, utter rubbish. You have nothing to back that up

    John Ansell if you’re still reading these comments, I probably don’t need to tell you: your problem is getting your message / story / perspective across on mainstream television without being set up and shot down. Not Radio Live, not on websites or blogs – TV. You have a disconnect between your message and the massively fertile ground that you know is out there. You can’t get to them.

    (Although some here like to disparage terrestrial TV it’s still watched by a hell of a lot of people, ‘ordinary people’ at that).

    There is certainly an audience for some kind of rational, concise documentary or series – let’s say it’s called ‘Exploding The Treaty Myth’. People would absolutely watch something like that at say 8.30 or 9.00. It would be as controversial as hell and therefore rate its tits off, not just because of the content I know would be in it, but because it would actually be ON TELEVISION.

    Unfortunately, your pathway is essentially blocked. If you went to TV1, 2, 3 Prime or Maori TV of course you just won’t get a commission. I can promise you with absolute certainty you won’t. You won’t even get a meeting. That’s because these two bit jobs with Willie and JT are demonising you.

    Perhaps you need to attack the gatekeepers in order to breach the castle. Put a proposal together, find the money, then when it gets turned down flat or given a 1 a.m. time slot, start hammering the programmers and commissioners. Why. And New Zealand On Air. Why. Start asking questions; you must know their upper echelons are stacked. Why, why, why. You’d be stirring up a hornets nest because these people, although they control their media, don’t like to be in it. Not at all.

    Find out how much taxpayer money is spent on other special interest programmes shall we say, why they were broadcast, how they rated, everything, until you can do your Campbell Live interview with the single biggest weapon you can wield which is why the debate is routinely shut down and locked out by the television elite. I don’t call the odd slating by one of the two ‘current affairs’ shows exposure.

    Think about the Bryan Bruce poverty documentary shown on TV3 three days out from the election. Everyone was talking about its timing afterwards yet the programmer and commissioner were never taken to task. People don’t even know who they are yet they are immensely powerful.

    Good luck

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  34. David Garrett (6,410 comments) says:

    Surprised this thread is still alive..FWIW John, I agree entirely with duggledog above…unfortunately, it is still the mainstream media which sets the agenda, and gives “the people” the news….a classic case is Rodney’s remarks at the ACT conference…I was there, and know exactly the context in which his “…we are supposed to hate the poor, hate Maori, hate the unions…well that’s true” remark was made. To it’s credit, TV One played the whole sentence, at least letting the more astute viewers decide themselves what “…well, that;s true” referred to. TV 3 – predicatably – played a carefully edited version.

    You know as well or better than I how the game is played…how you break through that, I don’t know….but if “Treatygate” is to reach “the people”, break through you must….

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  35. Aamy (8 comments) says:

    It is so wonderful to see so many people speaking out in support of John Ansell. I know that John has worked tirelessly on learning the truth and admire his courage in standing up for the truth.
    The situation in NZ would never have become so dire had there been more people like him over the years. Us kiwis, and our laid-back, she’ll be right attitudes, for which we are often adired, have in the process, allowed a rot to set in. Unless we stand up now, that rot, already at our core, will destroy us from the inside out.

    If anyone would like to read up on the subject from a maori perspective, try Alan Duff’s book Maori, The Crisis and the Challenge. He tells maori some very hard, unpalatable and inconvenient truths about themselves. I believe he has received death threats about his views, but I cannot personally confirm this.

    you should also follow John’s blog, he gives the address in the comments above. you will learn more than the other side would ever like you to know!

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  36. Paulus (2,501 comments) says:

    I am still concerned about the Treaty of Waitangi being our founding document, and its intended dominance in any Constitution.
    How will the following Treaties be acknowledged, in relation to the TOW. I assume they will be subserviant.
    Magna Carter 1215
    Habeus Corpus 1679
    Petition of Rights 1628
    Bill of Rights 1689
    Act of Settlement 1701

    There are others but these must be considered paramount at this time.
    The great (physically) David Lange and Geoffrey Palmer should rue what they have done.

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  37. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    barry, thanks for developing a version of the past that defines Maori as of an inter-generational crime culture. Do you think this is why so Maori do better in Oz?

    Can you also demonstrate a version of the past that would explain the outcome of us coming here to take Maori land off them? And why so many Pakeha do better in Oz too?

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  38. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    Dear John,

    Perhaps it’s best to list the things I don’t believe in:

    * Purposefully feeding fear, uncertaintly and doubt, in order to push one’s own gain;
    * Being purposefully divisive, especially when used to spurn cultural biases;
    * Being purposefully culturally insensitive; and
    * Being purposefully antagonstic.

    So, you’re quite right, you aren’t technically a racist by any stretch – Willie has it wrong. When you sum all the above “qualities” up you come up with what is otherwise called “hatred”. You’re out there deliberately trolling for it, just so you can stand up and say “he called me a racist first, Mr Teacher” – so don’t complain when they do.

    Please do carry on your crusade and debate in what is obviously a newspaper of high moral standing and reputation. Clearly that’s netted you a good many insecure, fear & loathing types thus far – the “redneck jackpot” as it is described above.

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  39. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    Duggledog and David Garrett: thanks.

    From my experience, the mainstream media are only interested in confrontation. Thus my views on the Constitutional Advisory Panel calling the country Aotearoa New Zealand led Prime and Sky News, drew a response from Key, etc.

    It was hardly my top issue, but it was the one out of all those on my blog that the channel chose to ask me about.

    Same with my scrap with Jackson. The only reason I made page 2 of Truth was my explosive response in calling Willie a liar. The only way to highlight my content was to create a confrontation.

    Shame really, but that’s the media.

    I think the best plan is to go round the media, and take our evidence into every letterbox. ‘Treatygate: The Evidence’, written succinctly, with pictures, would be too compelling for most householders to throw out.

    Once the millions have read the evidence, the game will change and the media and politicians will have to take notice, or get absolutely hammered.

    My original plan of a campaign of small, punchy ads would depend, not just on money, but also on the media’s willingness to run the ads. I don’t want to be beholden to biased media owners, hence my Plan B.

    And of course the internet will be invaluable.

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  40. Aamy (8 comments) says:

    As I said in my earlier comment, which has somehow gone awry or has not been approved, it is wonderful to see so many people speaking out in support of John Ansell. Yes, John stands for truth and has gone to the trouble, with the help of a lot of people behind the scenes, to find out what that truth is. The extent of the rort that has been going on for years is mind blowing. So it’s very heartening to see so much support here!

    New Zealand would not be in it’s current woeful state if we’d had more John’s over the past years.

    Willie on the other hand is a weasely little blowhard and the worst racist I’ve ever heard in all my life. He knows nothing of his peoples history outside the grievances and cares so little for his own people that he would rather continue to rant on about what victims they are, than try and help them out of their predicament. He’s a low life of the worst sort.

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  41. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    I think the best plan is to go round the media, and take our evidence into every letterbox. ‘Treatygate: The Evidence’, written succinctly, with pictures, would be too compelling for most householders to throw out.

    LOL. I will look forward to that as much as I did the Jehovah’s Witness’ yearly mail drop that I got today!

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  42. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    I find the down-votes above for the report that Waitangi Day was peaceful disconcerting. Seems Kiwibloggers are quite content moaning about people protesting at Waitangi, as long as they are the “wrong” type of people bringing the “wrong” type of message.

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  43. RandySavage (196 comments) says:

    yeah its depressing how religiously these guys stick to the script

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  44. RandySavage (196 comments) says:

    Tamihere would have eaten Ansell if he had been interested

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  45. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    “Tamihere would have eaten Ansell if he had been interested”

    Interesting turn of phrase given Maori history.

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  46. Nostalgia-NZ (4,910 comments) says:

    Ansell has a message for space cadets and there are no so many available.

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  47. Paul Marsden (986 comments) says:

    Like the colour of their skin, both JT and JK are full of the brown, runny, smelly stuff. They both know full well the true, historical account of NZ history, but it is not in their personal/professional (read ‘financial”) interests, to acknowledge.

    The lack of any cognitive argurement to the contrary and the perennial grin and smirk on their faces as they attack all and sundry whom speak the truth, is stark testimony to the fact.

    They get away with it because they are a couple of intelligent, likable rogues, but be wary, they will con and steal from you in less than the blink of a human eye.

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  48. Nostalgia-NZ (4,910 comments) says:

    Oh dear, Paul Marsden is talking about the colour of people’s skin, so that’s what Johnny meant.

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  49. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    No Maori would eat Ansell. There would be no mana in it for them.

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  50. RightNow (6,659 comments) says:

    mana/money

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  51. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Right Now, there would be no mana in eating someone you did not respect as a warrior – others were the ones kept as slaves. Of course there are male sex workers who would eat Ansell for money – respecting a client is not required for sex work.

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  52. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    “Tamihere would have eaten Ansell if he had been interested”

    Ok lets be serious and not lower the tone like SPC.
    The best JT could come up with when they interviewed John Ansell was to assirt that because around $1.5 billion p.a. is spent solely on Maori then the remainder of Government spending (around 74 billion) must be spent on everyone else.
    Two possibilities- He is so thick that he doesn’t realise Maori use Government services just like everyone else (education, health, roads etc etc) or he was being deliberately obtuse and trying to mislead the listeners.
    So tell me Randy Savage and SPC which is it?

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  53. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    RandySavage

    yeah its depressing how religiously these guys stick to the script

    Yeah, it is. You’d hope they’d break out of it but it’s just self-perpetuating. Nice ba-da-boom boom-boom Basil Brush tie in to the Jehovah’s Witness post by the way… it’s almost poetical… exactly the same antics are displayed.

    Excellent handle BTW- : watch your back for Andre The Giant

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  54. Nostalgia-NZ (4,910 comments) says:

    Don’t confuse yourself with such stupid questions Graeme, think of even more stupid ones.

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  55. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    Graeme2

    You’ve only had 8 posts. And three of them have been in this particular thread. John Ansell has disappeared from this thread. And, in his place, you seem particularly hung-up on very specific points of specific interviews at specific times.

    Are you sure you’re not John Ansell dressed up in drag?

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  56. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Graeme,

    How about, how does $1.5b compare to the current value of the land and other assets taken from Maori.

    After all, Maori were promised continuing chieftainship/self government. If
    2.

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  57. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    Like the colour of their skin, both JT and JK are full of the brown, runny, smelly stuff

    Don’t worry John, the non-racists are out in force tonight and they’re backing you up fully!

    They’re legitimising your cause – helping you out – you know, making lots of sensical, logical, non-racist statements and all that…

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  58. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    Pretty fair question I thought. I am not at all confused. I didn’t really expect an answer though much to threatening for you I guess.

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  59. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    SPC said “Graeme,

    How about, how does $1.5b compare to the current value of the land and other assets taken from Maori.

    After all, Maori were promised continuing chieftainship/self government. If
    2.”

    I doubt we will agree on this but Maori land was predominately purchased (sometimes more than once) and Maori ceded Sovereignty in the treaty. All actually not relevant to what JT tried to assirt.

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  60. Nostalgia-NZ (4,910 comments) says:

    Good work Graeme; I’m sure you understand what you mean.

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  61. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    Graeme,

    With their asset base intact iwi would have been able to continue their self government/chieftainship and afford $1.5B of their own services to Maori each year. Maori chieftainship was promised in the Treaty.

    Yes it was hard to buy collectively owned Maori land by buying it off just one member of the iwi.

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  62. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    This is probably pointless but I will try one more time. The one complaint the Chiefs assembled at the Kohimaramara conference in 1860 had with the progress since the treaty was signed was that the Government wasn’t moving quickly enough with land court hearings etc to provide titles so that they could sell land. Maori wanted the technology, the trade and the rule of law that the settlers brought.
    Any legitimate claims for wrongdoing (land taken under public works act for example) have already been settled, some more than once.
    Lets also remember that many Maori were second class citizens or slaves prior to the treaty. Just as it was then it is now with a group of elite capturing the majority of the treaty settlement spoils.
    Most Kiwis are tolerant and to date have gone along with righting what they thought to be past wrongs. Many now though are becoming angry when they find out about how our nations history has been altered and the treaty twisted beyond all recognition.
    If we are to progress as a Nation then we are going to need those descended from Maori to be New Zealanders first and Maori second. Otherwise we are going to end up as Fiji or god forbid something worse. This is my last comment on the subject. Good night all.

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  63. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    So you think all Maori wanted in 1860 was to sell more land and become subjects of the law courts of the settler. The problem being without land they had less and less to trade for Pakeha goods/technology.

    1862 Native Land Act

    The Native Land Act 1862 set up a Native Land Court to adjudicate on competing customary claims to land. It created a court of Māori chiefs chaired by a Pākehā magistrate. The act also allowed Māori to deal directly with settlers over land. Because this contravened the Treaty, the act had to be approved in London. It was barely implemented before it was replaced in 1865.

    1863 New Zealand Settlements Act

    The New Zealand Settlements Act, passed during the New Zealand Wars, authorised the taking of land from Māori. The legislation assisted European settlement, particularly by placing military settlers on lands where they could act as a buffer between Māori and European communities. Its intention and effect was to punish so-called rebel Māori by allowing the confiscation of their lands. Māori considered to be in rebellion were not entitled to compensation, and even Māori thought of as loyal were first offered monetary compensation rather than the return of their land. Later, the law was amended to allow awards of land, including of small areas to surrendered ‘rebels’.

    1864 Land confiscations

    The first proclamation confiscating land under the New Zealand Settlements Act was made in December 1864. Over the next three years, five districts were proclaimed to be under the act: Taranaki, Waikato, Tauranga, Eastern Bay of Plenty and Mōhaka–Waikare. The total area affected was about 1.5 million acres (607,500 ha). A Compensation Court (mostly comprising judges of the Native Land Court) was set up to hear claims by loyal Māori for monetary compensation or the recovery of their land.

    1865 Native Land Court established

    The Native Land Court was established in 1865, replacing the 1862 system. In determining ownership, the court was required to name no more than 10 owners, regardless of the size of the block. All other tribal members who may have been owners were effectively dispossessed. The newly designated owners held their lands individually, not communally as part of (or as trustees for) a tribal group. They could manage it – and sell it – as individuals and for their own benefit.

    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/treaty/treaty-timeline/treaty-events-1850-99

    I suppose if you think that “any legitimate claims for wrongdoing (land taken under public works act for example) have already been settled” you must wonder at what Bolger and Graham did – were they ignorant of history?

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  64. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    You missed quoting this from your link:

    “1926 Royal commission on land confiscations
    In 1926 a royal commission began to inquire into the land confiscations of the 1860s. It found some confiscations to have been excessive and recommended compensation. Taranaki Māori accepted an annual payment of £5000 from 1931, but negotiations for the other settlements were delayed until 1944. In that year, compensation was made to several major iwi for land taken in the 19th century. The three major settlements were: Ngāi Tahu (£10,000 per annum for 30 years), Waikato–Maniapoto (£6000 per annum) and Taranaki (£6000 per annum for 50 years and £5000 thereafter).”

    Having read the 1926 Royal commission report I have to say that the information on this NZhistory site is shallow and biased in the extreme.

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  65. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    So. Let’s summarise. These people:

    http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/meet-the-nzhistory-team

    Have deliberately presented biased information to continue a rort that was started in the 1900′s and successive Governments, of different flavours, have allowed it to continue? And none of these previous Governments, their leaders, or many highly regarded historians, peace makers and representatives of the Maori culture knew about this because they were deliberately (and collectively) hiding it or were just to dumb to notice it was happening. And what’s more, you know more about this than any of these (qualified and experienced) people who have spent many many man hours in treaty negotiations over the years?

    I hope those people at NZ History haven’t also doctured their reports about the Anzacs, the Vietnam war, the Christchurch quakes etc… It’s suddenly dawned on me that Germany won the war, the Christchurch earthquakes were man-made and the whole Vietnam war was filmed in a Hollywood studio. If only I had known. I must go now and ring Investigate magazine.

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  66. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    Ok lets look at an example then from the link SPC posted-

    “1866 Te Kooti imprisoned without trial
    During 1865 and 1866, with the rise of the Pai Mārire movement, the government arrested people thought to be aiding the so-called rebels. Te Kooti Rikirangi of Poverty Bay was one of these. He was sent to the Chatham Islands, and his pleas for a trial were ignored. On 4 July 1868, Te Kooti and many followers escaped. They were subsequently pursued on the East Coast and in the Urewera and the Taupō districts. From 1868, the government began to charge individuals with crimes such as murder or treason, but Te Kooti escaped the pursuing forces and was pardoned in 1883. He founded the Ringatū Church and provided it with rituals and structures that last to this day.”

    Yes Te Kooti was arrested for aiding the “so called?” Hauhau rebels. Yes he was exiled to the Chathams. ( Consider the punishment by way of contrast dished out to Karl Volkner, who the Hauhaus accused of spying, hung, beheaded, eyes eaten and his blood drunk)
    So what did Te Kooti do when he escaped from the Chathams? He joined the Hauhaus and went on a murderous campaign against the Government the Settlers and friendly native tribes. Over 200 friendly Maori and white settlers (woman and children included) were murdered at Mohaka alone, including the Lavin children who it is reported were thrown in the air and implaled on bayonets. Te Kooti and his Tuhoe and Whakatahea allies continued their campaign of terror for 3 more years chased around the Ureweras by Government and loyal Arawa and Ngati Porou troops, before escaping to the King Country. Many hundreds died as a direct result of Te Kooti’s campaign.
    Now tell me that the NZ History description above isn’t totally biased.

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  67. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    Randy Savage said: “Tamihere would have eaten Ansell if he had been interested.”

    So why wasn’t he interested, Randy? Could it be that he didn’t like being challenged on the facts when I rang their Waitangi Day show?

    Could it be that he didn’t like being challenged on his absurd view that the Taranaki annihilation of the Moriori was really all the white man’s fault because the captain of the ship they hired (actually hijacked) was white?

    This to me showed the desperation of Tamihere. Until he said that I thought he was a whole lot more knowledgeable than Jackson.

    (Well, actually, he is, as it’s impossible to be less knowledgeable than Willie.)

    But to advance that argument is just insane. For one thing, the ship was hijacked, not hired. For another, even if the captain was a willing transporter, how does that implicate him in the deaths of 1500 Moriori? Did he know his passengers were bent on mass murder?

    And even if he did, how does one man’s collaboration mean that his entire race were equally culpable?

    More to the point, how does that screwy logic allow Tamihere to absolve the Taranaki murderers of responsibility for one of the worst per capita genocides in the history of mankind?

    I suggest that if Tamihere appeared uninterested in debating me, it was because he knew he was in for more of the same. And he did not want to be drubbed on the details in front of his mate and his supporters.

    Unlike his ignorant accomplice, JT can speak knowledgeably on New Zealand history.

    About half of it.

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  68. duggledog (1,356 comments) says:

    John, I don’t know about the idea of flyers in letterboxes or even ad campaigns. Itstricky at 8.08 last night is right; I think those flyers are too easy to put in the bin as just more junk mail. However powerful the message is, they are just too easy to put to one side. We’ve all seen them come and go.

    Any ad campaign you put together is possibly going to be vetoed by the TV networks or watered down so I’m not sure about that either. What are your thoughts on that, as an ad man?

    At the end of the day, I don’t know whether you can beat the old television programme – where the viewer can see the whites of your eyes as it were, and follow your narrative if it’s done in a properly thought out, well edited fashion. It’s that or hiring halls and going round the country but the problem there is nobody’s going to turn up because nobody wants to be a social pariah. It would be the same if you made a film; nobody would dare to be seen in public going along.

    Mainstream television is still the best tool for you to get to the majority of apathetic, middle of the road NZers. It’s anonymous and still the best platform to really formulate your ideas and arguments; where they can be stripped down to the nitty gritty. Driving people to a website where there are just words ain’t enough. People haven’t got the time and they generally can’t be bothered.

    Next time you debate with Willie Jackson, remember his Achille’s Heel is sending his son to Kings, living in David Lange’s old house and that massive 4WD. He’s the worst kind of hypocrite – a former union boss. They always do well. Tamihere always gives him shit about it and he always changes the subject really quickly!

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  69. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    Graeme2,

    Yet this page here, written by exactly the same authors, tells the story exactly as you did:

    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1t45/te-kooti-arikirangi-te-turuki

    Te Kooti struck at Matawhero in the early hours of 10 November 1868. About 54 people were killed, including Biggs. More than 20 were Maori. Te Kooti subsequently ordered the execution of some prisoners, including women and children, followed by the singing of Psalm 63. He seized Pa-tutahi from where his patrols swept through the district, capturing supplies and 300 Maori prisoners.

    I imagine there is a very good reason it is not listed on the sister site NZ history. I don’t imagine that reason is a national conspriacy ranking up there with the moon landings.

    I’d say the reason you are so obsessed about it, and the reason John keeps going on about it is because you want to paint Maori in a bad light. Again, not directly racist, just pushing around the boundaries to try to start a fight and get the publicity for your faux crusade and your redneck followers. Times were brutal then and everyone slaughtered everyone else, all sides equally guilty – Pakeha, Maori or Moriori. It doesn’t matter – life must carry on – and so must we – bringing it up for the sake of trying to push you own agenda is hurtful – get over it and let everyone move forward

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  70. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    I don’t know about the idea of flyers in letterboxes or even ad campaigns. Itstricky at 8.08 last night is right

    Good God. Now I’m giving them ideas. Time to exit, stage left.

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  71. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    Yes, I saw Willie’s flash 4WD when I introduced myself to him at Waitangi.

    Tamihere was there with his too.

    I didn’t know Jaclson’s son went to King’s or that he’s living in Lange’s house – do you mean the big family home or the one he and Naomi lived in – with the mural of Rangitoto on the fence?

    I wasn’t meaning a flyer in the letterbox, I was meaning a fat book of facts – sorry I should have said that.

    I don’t think there’s any point making a doco on the off-chance that TV One or 3 might suddenly abandon its bias and run it. No chance, I’d say.

    As regards no one turning up to meetings in halls, don’t believe what Willie said – they’re turning up all right. Audiences of 100-300 are good in this day and age – better than most politicians get.

    And we’ve been getting those without any real advertising – just word of mouth and emails.

    Our core market is retired people and blue collar guys.

    The kids have been brainwashed or are too scared to stand out from the crowd.

    Women don’t like confrontation, so prefer to support us silently.

    The blue collar guys are not scared to say what’s on their minds, but they’re generally too busy earning a buck to join clubs and listen to speakers.

    But there are hundreds of Probus, U3A, Rotary and Lions clubs, and Grey Power are a major force to be reckoned with.

    All are supportive of racial equality, and many are keen to hear what we have to say. Dr Tom Johnson has been speaking to a few clubs in Hawkes Bay already, and we’ll be doing a lot more of this.

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  72. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    itstricky: Go and find a quote about how Moriori slaughtered hundreds of innocent Maori. Even one innocent Maori would do.

    Then go and find one about Pakeha rampaging through communities of innocent Maori shooting, tomahawking, torturing, cooking and eating men, women and children.

    You’ll find that you won’t be able to.

    You will then have come face to face with the reality that only Maori did those things. That will of course upset your rosy bicultural worldview, and I’m sorry about that.

    Then you might like to re-examine your conclusion about why NZ History did not want to mention the Matawhero massacre. You might realise that you got it right first time.

    I’m sorry you find the truth about nineteenth century Maori society hurtful. I find people who tell lies about my forebears hurtful too – especially when they want my money for wrongs which were not done (or were not wrong).

    Believe me, if modern Griever Maori weren’t making such a killing telling lies about their forebears and mine, I wouldn’t be forced to tell these awful truths.

    But they are. Any frankly, they deserve all the pushback they’re getting.

    I quite agree with you that we should let bygones be bygones and move forward as one united country.

    But the thugs and extortionists who run Maoridom today – to say nothing of their weak Pakeha appeasers – don’t seem to agree with us.

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  73. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    Itstricky said: “Yet this page here, written by exactly the same authors, tells the story exactly as you did:

    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/biographies/1t45/te-kooti-arikirangi-te-turuki

    Te Kooti struck at Matawhero in the early hours of 10 November 1868. About 54 people were killed, including Biggs. More than 20 were Maori. Te Kooti subsequently ordered the execution of some prisoners, including women and children, followed by the singing of Psalm 63. He seized Pa-tutahi from where his patrols swept through the district, capturing supplies and 300 Maori prisoners.”

    I did read the full account on Te Kooti published by NZ History while it does mention Matawhero there is no metion of the Mohaka massacre, nor any real detail of his exploits, the history is whitewashed. The overall impression given of Te Kooti is one of a great Maori leader rather than a ruthless murderer. I did not post the details in the previous post to paint Maori in a bad light as you suggest but to provide some balance.
    Please don’t include Moriori in your list though they were peaceful and virtually wiped out by Wiilie’s ancestors Ngati Tama and Ngati Mutunga.
    I too would love to move forward and have a society in NZ where everyone is equal under the law and our taxes are spent
    based on need not race.

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  74. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    Read them both. Deleted my original paragraph of comment as I can’t bear the thought that I am actually accidentally helping you by even discussing ugliness of your arguments.

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  75. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    itstricky: You are indeed helping us – by confirming the shallowness of our opponents’ knowledge, and by demonstrating to neutral observers that your side’s only consistent response to facts is abuse.

    I have no idea what you mean by “giving them ideas”. Thanks, but we prefer to use our own.

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  76. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    Go with the phamplet drop then! Stunning idea!

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  77. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    by confirming the shallowness of our opponents’ knowledge

    You’re right -: I can’t proclaim to have the knowledge of history that you have. I can’t proclaim, therefore, to know how much of it is of your own making and, therefore, how much of it is “the truth” which is a disadvantage to me. In this case, however, knowledge is not the only power. And in answering to your claims I would actually be accidentally assisting you, just as I did above.

    Did I say – go with the phamplet drop? The public will be so engrossed, they won’t be able to put it down. It’s a great idea.

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  78. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    itstricky: What you rely on for your argument is emotion – that’s all.

    You expect emotion to carry the day in the face of hard facts. So do Griever Maori like Willie.

    Indeed, so do all of the Treatygate fraudsters right through politics, academia, the education system, the legal system and the media.

    And guess what?

    All too often, it does.

    Emotion – belief – is immensely powerful. In the face of belief (what you want to believe), facts to the contrary are merely an inconvenient irritant which can be disregarded at little cost – provided the groupthink is strong enough.

    You don’t want my facts to be true, so your only recourse is to doubt my integrity.

    It doesn’t seem to occur to you to ask, “Why would he waste his time and cost himself everything in order to peddle a line that he knows is not true?”

    I have other ways I could be earning a living – much more pleasurable ways – so why would I be going to so much trouble just to tell lies and make myself unpopular with a whole bunch of angry people (and quite probably unemployable)?

    More likely, don’t you think, that I am genuine in wanting to expose lies, not tell them?

    I ask you to think about that.

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  79. Nostalgia-NZ (4,910 comments) says:

    ‘Indeed, so do all of the Treatygate fraudsters right through politics, academia, the education system, the legal system and the media.’

    Nothing conspiratorial then.

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  80. Griff (6,759 comments) says:

    The horrific violence in the official version of New Zealand history.
    Is always blamed on the Europeans
    It is always lawless white man vrs just maori .
    Ignoring the fact that at least 90% of all violence after the discovery of white man was maori on maori.

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  81. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    Absolutely it’s a conspiracy, Nostalgia-NZ.

    I hardly think it’s a series of coincidences, especially when the perpetrators inhabit institutions – be they maraes or universities or political parties – who meet each other regularly to discuss these things.

    It’s fairly clear that it’s a concerted, coordinated process by those who share the same vision of a Maorified Aotearoa.

    But of course, all those who see conspiracies are nutters in your view, aren’t they?

    But as doctor of conspiracy Matthew Dentith will tell you, some conspiracies are valid, while others aren’t.

    (In Matthew’s view, the conspiracies that socialists like him believe all tend to be valid, while those of his political opponents tend not to be.)

    I don’t think conspiracy is a dirty word – just an overused one.

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  82. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    Aha, the old national conspiracy eh.

    Good thing I hadn’t decided which bucket to throw this thread into just yet. Still it could turn out to be either ‘loonies’ or ‘loonies with a slight religious bent’

    How’s the phamplet drop going?

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  83. John Ansell (861 comments) says:

    What’s a phamplet, Ana?

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  84. itstricky (1,562 comments) says:

    John: What you rely on for your argument is misspelling – that’s all.

    You expect misspelling to carry the day in the face of hard facts. So do Griever English Correctors like Collins (the dictionary that is, not Judith).

    Indeed, so do all of the Spellinggate fraudsters right through politics, academia, the education system, the legal system and the media.

    And guess what?

    All too often, it does.

    Belief in spelling is immensely powerful. In the face of misspelling, facts to the contrary are merely an inconvenient irritant which can be disregarded at little cost – provided everyone in the group thinks you’ve spelt it the wrong way.

    You don’t want my thoughts to be true, so your only recourse is to doubt my spelling.

    It doesn’t seem to occur to you to ask, “Why wouldn’t he look that up in a dictionary if he knows it not to be not true? – is there a reason?”

    I have other ways I could be earning a living so why would I be going to so much trouble misspelling words and making myself unpopular with a whole bunch of angry people (and quite probably unemployable)?

    More likely, don’t you think, that I am genuine in my attempt to spell?

    I ask you to think about that.

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