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As the US military continues to court scrutiny regarding drone use, the Air Force has stopped sharing information on the number of drone strikes in Afghanistan. Going one step further, it has removed those statistics from prior reports on its website.
Similar to elsewhere Dunedin City Council want residents to register trees. This then means they have to jump through bureaucratic hoops every time they want to prune the trees.
The latest push to get Dunedin residents to formally protect their significant trees has attracted an underwhelming response, Dunedin City Council staff say.
The council had received just 52 nominations over the last five years for additions to its significant tree schedule, most of those in the past month.
Once a tree was on the schedule, people would need to apply for a free resource consent before maintenance work was done to make sure the work would not damage the tree.
You can imagine what would be required if you wanted to fell it.
Why would anyone volunteer tio register their trees? Snob value may devalue a property – and this is a warning to anyonelooking at buying a property with a tree on it in case it is protected by red tape.
the show’s executive producer, Raewyn Rasch, downplayed the remark: “It’s one tweet. It’s just not a biggie.”
She said the Seven Sharp team enjoyed people responding via social media. But the comments were not intended for newspaper articles. “What happens on Twitter should stay on Twitter.” The post was still available on the TV show’s website last night.
Manolo, a careless bit of cut n’ paste pales into comparison when compared with various lefty media who have fabricated entire stories, to fit their left wing narrative, along with stage managed video presentations.
You had better get your thinking in order before Red gets out of bed
I returned late last night from a tangi and skimmed over the KB before calling it a night. I had to chuckle over the posting in regards to “stone agers” and our practices.
For those who do not know, when a person drowns or is found dead for whatever reason in a local body of water, a tapu is placed on the a said body for a period of time before being lifted. There is no swimming, fishing or shellfish collecting during that time. I am (or will be) 50 shortly and was been taught this as a child by my grandfather. Most Maori will tell you the same. It is not a “new thing”, and I am truly surprised that this isn’t common knowledge to many others.
And most Maori that I know would be mortified at the idea of a koha was offered to lift the tapu.
But Northland Wahine – you want this view forced on everyone. Thats the stoneage aspect of this.
Its the same with the shark attack off murawai recently – the beach was closed for 3 days by the local council I think. thats Stoneage (so being stoneage – ie: arrogant about ones beliefs – isnt restricted just to maori).
So, if you would’ve been taught Earth is at the centre of the solar system, you would still believed it, wouldn’t you? Myth has no place in modern society.
Another bunch of car thieves speeding away from police – when is the government going to treat this offending far more seriously. Even though the boy was 15 it is clear that he needs to be locked away from the public.
What sort of justice can give you life in prison for manufacturing a drug people choose to take versus a slap on the wrist to thieving c*nts who deliberately put any random road users life in the line by speeding away from police. These people should be given a sentence similar to attempted murder.
And not to mention the cost on society these f*ckers impose. How much of my yearly insurance bill is paid for car thieves? The only positive outcome that we have at the moment is that occasionlly these bastards kill themselves fleeing from police.
In the Muriwai shark attack, I was of the understanding that the council closed the beach for safety reasons, as they were worried about the shark returning, and not for cultural. I could be wrong.
Maori have acknowledged this practice for so long, it is 2nd nature. I’ve never heard of an incident where Maori have stopped people from swimming etc in an area after a death. It’s just something we do. That’s why I was genuinely surprised that it the story that Manola posted was given any media attention.
Thank you for the explanation concernign tapu. Many of us of an older generation were /are aware of the reasoning and logic behind it, but it seems to have become less well known over recent years.
However, re: ‘And most Maori that I know would be mortified at the idea of a koha was offered to lift the tapu’.
Sadly, as I am sure you are aware, because of abuse of the practice of the last 30 or so years, the use of ‘koha’ has been ‘cheapened’ and is now perceived by many non-Maori as being, for want of a better term a ‘back-hander’ or ‘bribe’ to ‘grease the wheels’. Things lsuchas the ‘Taniwha’ episode at Meremere have meant that, for a large number of New Zealander’s Its cultural significance has been seriously devalued and it is seen as just another means that Maori have discovered to ‘rip-off whitey’. On that basis, the offering of ‘Koha to lift a tapu’ is not an ureasonable response; ‘Koha’ works elswhere, so why not in such an event as a drowning?
Regrettably, and as abhorent as it is to most of us, the ‘common belief’ is that in fact, there are in fact Maori who are prepared to actually use Koha in this manner; it is after all, only a slight stage removed from what is already being done by Maori elsewhere, so by logical progression…
It is, I suppose an example of ‘unforseen consequences’, and inevitably does Maori no favours.
March 10th, 2013 at 9:37 am
But Northland Wahine – you want this view forced on everyone. Thats the stoneage aspect of this
Barry it was more a health thing, a rahui is put on incase the shell fish etc have been contamintaed by the body. There is a bit a a respect thing as well but mostly health. The only problem these days is the length they try and put a rahui on for, we had them in the eastern bay for 6 months if the body wasn’t recovered. That just pisses everyone off.
Manola, Europeans thought the world was flat. I have no idea what ancient Polynesians thought, but yeah I get your point.
People show their respect in different ways. I don’t think any way should be forced upon another.
I come from the area of the far north where helicopter pilot John “Prickles” de Ridder and William Macrae lost there lives. Their helicopter went down where I was swimming this week, where kids and my moko fished, dived and kayaked. My brother who was caught in the fire and took refuge in the sea, told them what he could about the men that died so they would remember 2 brave men that lost their lives helping to save his. He also explained to them why a tapu was placed on the bay after their deaths.
A memorial service at the end of last year was held for these 2 brave men, where their family where treated as honoured guests on our family land to remind them of the appreciation and gratitude we still have for them. You may call it a living myth of stone agers. I call it respect.
Re: ‘these bastards kill themselves fleeing from police’. Yet such is the extent to which the liberals have hijacked the media, that in such a situation, according to news reports, it is invariably the fault of the Police that such deaths occur; never the ‘victims’ (note the use of the word). This is of course never actually stated per se’ – it is just heavily implied by careful and clever use of inuendo and implication. Individual responsibility for the consequences of one’s actions (even when it literally kills you) and respect for the Police by the MSM? Tui moment methinks.
Was it the Greymouth Great War Memorial/Cenotaph that was bulldozed by local Maori?
*Of course they have a tremendous ‘spirituality’ and ‘respect for the dead’ that us lowly Pakeha cannot begin to understand…
when Dime was about 13 we used to have a holiday house at taupo bay. some dude drowned and the local maori put one of their spells or bans or whatever on the beach.
no swimming for 3 days.. at the peak of summer.
needless to say young Dime spent all 3 days swimming…
tonight is thin lizzy/ motley crue/ kiss. Dime has backstage passes etc should be a fun night. im hoping for a tongue out pic with gene simmons. Dime has an incredibly long tongue.
Tuesday night is guns n roses. no backstage antics for that one but fun. zz top opening!
im also going to do a tour of the brothel my best friend runs. funny.
just thought id let you all know.. so as you soldier through your miserable lives you can wonder “whats dime up to?”
“You had better get your thinking in order before Red gets out of bed”
You’re the one who needs to get their head in order. You buy into so many left wing memes its amazing you can perceive yourself as right wing. And here you buy into the meme that FOX news is right wing. If you had any real knowledge of FOX news, rather than just bullshit gleaned from the lying left, you’d know that the only difference between FOX and the rest of the media is that FOX gives voice to a few commentators who are not completely left wing.
That is why they are hated by the left, because they have broken the agreement to keep non-progressives from expressing a view.
However they have almost as many left wing talking heads on as the rest of the media and Juan Williams is one of them. A dirty communist and racist, IOW a typical black progressive.
Get it now loser? Its not Manolo who needs to clue himself up, its you.
That’s the trouble with many of the self professed right in NZ, led so easily by the mainstream media they claim to hold in contempt, and buying into all kind of Marxist concepts without even understanding what they are doing.
(Another example- Your own irrational hatred of Christianity makes you worthless (like Viking2) for such bigotry is completely incompatible with Conservative values, and marks you clearly as an ally of the left.)
Wahine. Some of what you say is true but you will forgive us from saying that much has been rorted in an attempt at mind control of others by certain people for the benefit of controlling others.
We don’t (YET), have a tapu when someone kills themselves up against a lampost in a car. Where would you hold it. In the car, pissed against the lampost, or at the Local Road Transit Office? where?
The world has moved on and whilst respect is one of the great parts of life, that respect is towards the individual, not to a piece of water, space, air of some other intangible item. e.g. my Dad died, (many long years ago), in hospital. Should I then place a tapu on that hospital? Which bit, someone else was no doubt in that bed within a day or so.
You can see the absurbity of the primal view.
Now, if a body was in the water and not found then I can accept that maybe fishing or netting may be difficult but if one looks at places like Piha where fishermen get washed off on a regular basis, what sort of an uproar would that cause.
Pay your respects by all means but that respect belongs to that person, not some other misguided ideal.
The vendor was Hart companies Carter Holt Harvey HBU and Rank Group Property Investments.
The OIO’s approval notice kept the price paid for the farms confidential, but according to AP1’s report it invested 316 million krona ( $59.5m) for the New Zealand properties.
That indicates the farms were sold for under $19,000 per hectare, less than half the average price paid (39,976 per hectare) for dairy farms in the Waikato last year.
———————-
Well now that makes the Chinese purchase of Crafars look a tad expensive.
agreed these farms are not as productive as the Wailkato is but there must be a price flow on.
(Another example- Your own irrational hatred of Christianity makes you worthless (like Viking2) for such bigotry is completely incompatible with Conservative values, and marks you clearly as an ally of the left.
——————————-
Fortunately Reddy one’s politics have jackshit to do with religious mania. Something you and many others so far haven’t managed to understand. Not surprisingly for clear thinking needs an unbiased brain, one that is not controlled by the very mind control that religion infuses into it. You are of course just another version of many of these religious cranks that infest KB, some also have left, communist, Muslim, Cathoilc Presbertarian beliefs moulded by their religous learning and leaning.
There are even right wing religious nutter’s around who expouse the conservative view that taint’s there politics.
Religion and politicsare two separate mind games. Some of us can separate the out. Most have them so intertwined that the religous views usurp their clear view of politics.
Politics is the contest of idea’s about how we should goven ourselves and many lefties have a better view of that than those who religious views are intertwined in their politics.
Politics should be a contest about ensuring the freedom of the indivdual to have a meaningful life. If one choses to also involve religion in their life, then that is their choice.
Only, when they use that choice to interfere in others live’s they have the crossed the line.
It is also true of everything else we do in life.
That includes you and many others. You are using your religious views in an attempt to impose what you consider other people shoud or should not do or be like.
So back to your statement that perhaps you should analyse again. Who is actually the bigoted?
Good points Viking and duly noted. And to other posters, I understand the hypocrisy that is reported all to frequently by the media in regards to things pertaining to Maori and culture.
I don’t speak for all Maori. I do speak from personal experience as a Maori woman and how I see things. I don’t think it makes me right or wrong.
I have no problems when I am with some my extended whanau expressing my disgust at their lax attitude towards employment, drug and alcohol abuse, family violence and absentee parents. I am not the only one to do so.
Nor will I have any problems expressing my disgust to those who refer to my maori heritage, my whanau, my children and moko, as stone agers, ferals and other derogatory names, just as I will express my disgust towards Maori who do the same to my pakeha heritage.
You’re wasting my time with your long winded bullshit based on a complete misrepresentation of my views.
I have stated on this blog countless times that I am agnostic. Never been in a church in my life.
What amazes me about you anti-Christian bigots is that you always seem completely oblivious to the fact that it is always the left who race in to support you when you start your Christian bashing.
If you had half a brain this might tip you off to just how you have been duped, and who you are helping with your venomous attacks.
And seeing you seem so fucking simple, let me explain something to you that would be obvious to anyone of normal intelligence. I am not saying that everyone needs to be religious, that is a matter of personal choice.
What I am saying is that your extreme and unreasonable bigotry towards Christianity, more an obsession, is a manifestation of Marxist brainwashing.
Politics should be a contest about ensuring the freedom of the indivdual to have a meaningful life.
I’d agree with that if you said liberty instead of freedom. Freedom is ethically neutral, but liberty is constrained by law.
If one choses to also involve religion in their life, then that is their choice.
In the context of liberty, the state is not neutral regarding religion, it is athiestic. This is because it misrepresents the nature of common law by omitting the role of deity within the law. English common law has had an uneasy relationship with religion, but it is unequivocally theistic from its inception by King Alfred the Great.
Your own irrational hatred of Christianity makes you worthless (like Viking2)
incompatible with Conservative values
something just doesn’t gel here.
Irrational I suspect.
And as for being anti Christian—–
oh dear. I am certainly anti the views and actions of many mainly because when they use those views and actions to interfere in others live’s they have the crossed the line.
But anti christian, no for that would break my own rule.
And will I take the piss occasionally ? Well of course.
Redbaiter (2,266) Says:
March 10th, 2013 at 11:06 am……………… blah blah blah blah….
Manolo used an example of a media outlet commonly portrayed as right wing. I simply reminded him how things roll on the left.
I find it amusing that you think your uniquely qualified to decide how a “right wing” person should think. It has nothing at all to do with God, Homos, or any of the other stuff you go on about.
Further, it is not necessary to disagree with every single thing the left does, in order to be right wing. You seem to not judge each case on its merits but adopt a position based on YOUR perception of what a proper conservative should think. You do not get to declare that, for the rest of us, by fiat.
You are not nearly as savvy or informed as you make out. Many of the biggest threats we face appear to go unnoticed by you, while you rail against fellow right wingers based on your distorted political views.
Taking the piss involves some degree of intelligence and wit resulting in humour. Your attempts are just ignorant bigotry.
You’re worthless because you fall for the left’s tactic of divide and conquer.
Conservative Christians are great allies in the fight against the Progressives yet fuckwits like you can’t see it.
Rather you continually fire bullets into your own ranks and the left love it, for they know that if the Christian right is marginalised that is one more political force they don’t need to worry about.
You’re just a useful idiot, and in your strategic blindness and propensity for betrayal, worthless in the fight against the left.
You said above they have some good ideas, so fuck off and join them. Its where idiots like you have to be, for you are no real use elsewhere, and given that all you will ever do is split the side you’re on, you’re better off being in the left’s camp and weakening them.
So fuck off there and stop pretending to be some kind of right winger. You’re just a simple minded Marxist dupe.
What I am saying is that your extreme and unreasonable bigotry towards Christianity, more an obsession, is a manifestation of Marxist brainwashing.
Red, you seem oblivious to the simple fact that atheists believe there is no god. They are not attacking theists, they are supporting the truth. They may also, very rightly, attack the appalling history of the thing done in gods name.
Are you seriously suggesting people should accept lies as truth and ignore wrong doing so as not to appear bigoted ?
If so, I think we can safely dismiss your views as those of a fanatic with no morality.
Northland Wahine (445) Says: March 10th, 2013 at 11:34 am
… I do speak from personal experience as a Maori woman and how I see things.
… expressing disgust at their lax attitude towards employment, drug/alcohol abuse, family violence and absentee parents.
Nor will I have problems expressing disgust to those who refer to my maori heritage … the same to my pakeha heritage.
Greetings. It seems to me it is the identification with Maori that causes many people their problems. My nationality is NZ, of British descent. One g-g-grandparent from Scotland, one from the Channel Islands, the rest from England. I have lived in the UK. I do not identify with the Scots at all. But make it worth my while financially I’ll put on a kilt, play curling and dance the highland fling.
What I am is a human being, a person. I have tried to be an independent, thinking and useful member of society. I really don’t see calling up my tribes make one whit of difference to my position in society, any more than a general indifference to things Scottish explains my circumstances.
In short, thinking one was “Maori” in the past when one is possibly no more “Maori” now than I am “Scottish” is unhelpful to the individual, who should be trying to be a person living in the present. I would appreciate your comments.
Red, try reading what is written and not ranting off a prerecorded brain fart the moment you see something you don’t like.
I said Fox is portrayed as right wing, which it is.
Accepting lies about their being a god does not make you right wing. It just makes you wrong. Attacking homos (who may be right wing themselves) has nothing at all to do with political systems and everything to do with mposing your will on others. A typical lefty trait, if you must view it in those terms.
You are sounding more and more like a lightweight. How about a few comments with some substance.
You fucking idiot anti-christian bigots, with your set of crazed misconceptions, obsessively spend as much or more time on this blog attacking Christians as you do the left.
Which is just what the left want you to do, for its a state of affairs that has brought them victory in election after election, and granted them the power they seek above all else, and the power they use to press home their advantage and further their agenda.
Let’s for one minute accept that there is some basis to your insane fixation, and that the Christians do represent some kind of minuscule threat to your freedom. How does that measure up to the real threat of the left, and the fact that your insane bigotry and obsession has handed them power time and time again?
It doesn’t. All you are doing is weakening the opposition to the left, and playing into the hands of the left.
The problem is you’ll never listen to reason on this because you’ve quite clearly been brainwashed beyond help. You’ll just go on and on with your obsessive shit and the Marxists love it because they know its one of the key things that brings them power in this country and the rest of the west.
Some New Zealanders on face value, see me as Maori, others see me as Pakeha. I speak English yet very little Maori. I choose to identify myself as Maori because in my own past, my being Maori was seen in a negative light by some of my teachers and by many of my care givers ( I was fostered as a child). This led me to focus on the positive things about being Maori, to me.
There is a warm glow of family, of belonging with my Maori whanau. When I return to my tribal land, I feel I am, at home. I’m not sure how to describe that feeling. I have no doubt it makes sense to some, as I type it doesn’t seem logical to me. But it is what it is to me.
I live and work in South Auckland. Nice house, nice car. All the electronic gadgetry I can want or afford. I like these things. A lot! But if someone was to define who I was, I would rather be defined by the above and not the latter.
Yes it does. Fortunately for believers in anything ranging from homeopathy to catholicism, our liberal culture affords them the liberty to practice their respective superstitions – provided they comply with secular law.
Redbaiter (2,269) Says:
March 10th, 2013 at 12:44 pm
You fucking idiot anti-christian bigots, with your set of crazed misconceptions, obsessively spend as much or more time on this blog attacking Christians as you do the left.
Red, once again we hear a simplistic rant that wrongly assumes Christians are right wing. In reality Christians occupy a variety of places in the political spectrum. Many are vocally left wing and believe this is the correct caring Christian position to take on many issues.
In your heated comment you accuse those who defend truth of “insanity”. What is the alternative in your view ? I can not speak for other atheists, but I do not know of many who consider Christians much of a threat now days. Where do you get these fantastic ideas ?
Northland Wahine (446) Says: March 10th, 2013 at 12:56 pm
Some … see me as Maori, others as Pakeha. I identify … Maori because … being Maori was seen in a negative light by some … There is a warm glow of family, of belonging with my Maori whanau. When I return to my tribal land, I feel I am, at home… I live and work in South Auckland.
So you look (a bit) Maori to some people. We all feel at home when we return to an old stamping ground and family. I don’t think there’s anything special about this. Do you live in Otara-Mangere or Pakuranga-Howick?
Relax guys, who cares if there are Christians, people with christian views or non religious bashing each other, we all dip our toes in the water, it’s online, who cares. Watch this, it will shock a few but the man has a point when it comes to human perception, it was recently a hot topic on their site as the pro evidence pro constants subscribers hit out over the site allowing the video to be aired.
Doc, I was born in Auckland. The far north isn’t my stomping ground, central Auckland was as a child, and I moved South in my late teens when I married. My grown sons are also born and breed in South Auckland, in Clendon and they too refer to the far north as “home”. Yeah, it’s what I taught them as children and it’s what they choose to teach their children now. Their father pakeha and he chooses not to actively participate in their adult lives so his contribution to their attitudes is minimal. His loss…
I have plenty of family in Auckland, and see different ones on an irregular basis. But for whatever reason, the connection is stronger when we are at home.
@Northland Wahine. You call yourself “Northland Maori woman”, which of course is just a name, but it gives clue to what you feel.
I don’t see anything special about your having some Maori ancestry, any more than there is about my Scottish ancestry, which in fact originated in the Low Countries anyway. We all came from somewhere, bacteria, actually.
You were not born and raised in the North, so isn’t the attachment more romantic the real, rather like mine to England? Nothing especially Maori about it.
You are clearly a good and clever person who “deserved” to have been admired and cherished by a similar man. Or perhaps he doesn’t agree with the “Maori” aspect? Thanks for talking with me.
The attachment maybe romantic to you ( no not a dig) but its very real to me. Being Maori, for me, isn’t where I reside, or how fair my skin is or isn’t. It isn’t about whether or not I can converse fluently in Maori. And you’re right, it doesn’t make me special.
“……Accepting lies about their being a god does not make you right wing. It just makes you wrong. Attacking homos (who may be right wing themselves) has nothing at all to do with political systems and everything to do with mposing your will on others. A typical lefty trait, if you must view it in those terms. …..You are sounding more and more like a lightweight. How about a few comments with some substance….”
You are talking some shit today Kea.
[1] We teach children to pray – not to gather facts to support the existance of God.
Which makes us right as it’s a ‘belief’.
[2] Marriage is being defined down to the level of essentially non-procreative homosexual emotional relationships!
That is nearly the complete opposite of what Marriage CURRENTLY is : essentially procreative hetrosexual relationships which secure the emotional bonds between natural mothers, fathers and children.
It’s the 4%ers who are imposing their will on others Kea.
[3] Red’s comments do have substance – the truthful reality of the West and what it mostly now is – Marxist.
Telling a group or individual, that standing at the top of the cliff is dangerous – is NOT hate speech, or being ‘liteweight’!
Andrei (for example) is one of the best warriors against the left I have observed, and yet you fucking obsessive insane atheists spend so much more time beating up on Andrei for his faith than you do attacking the left. Thereby reducing our effectiveness and white anting our forces and diluting our strength.
You wonder why we can’t make headway against the left? Why they control our social and political condition and our culture to an almost totalitarian extent? Without even needing to fire a shot?
Think about it. Think about how they did it and then ask yourself whether your insane distraction with atheism has contributed in any way to the left’s overall ascendancy.
[1] We teach children to pray – not to gather facts to support the existance of God.
Which makes us right as it’s a ‘belief’.
You have pointed out that your belief is based on faith and not on facts. We agree on that much. I am curious (given the absence of facts) what informs your belief and supports your claim of being right ?
No one is proposing to change the nature of your marriage. Christians can maintain their beliefs and marriage traditions and good on them. I am an atheist and liberal on the gay issue, but my personal values are very close to the Christian ones. I just do not expect central government to impose my views on others.
You must be new here if you think I defend Marxist thought. DPF gave me 50 integrity merit points for being luke warm about his commie mates (after that sack of shit RRM tricked DPF into thinking I said something I did not. Most decent folk simply have a shower after reading RRM’s posturing bullshit)
I don’t subscribe to his views but it is still interesting at how he reveals that gravity changes.
I agree with him that the scientific model of reality is at odds with consciousness. Another model is that the fundamental building blocks of reality are themselves aspects of consciousness. This model predicts that life is abundant in the universe and that what seems strange to us is actually the norm. An example of high strangeness reality is the hollow earth theory, which is that over time our planet has expanded like a balloon. Evidence for this includes continental drift, longitudinal expansion cracks in the continental rifts, Admiral Byrd’s story, and the stories of Nazi New Schwabenland.
Think about how they did it and then ask yourself whether your insane distraction with atheism has contributed in any way to the left’s overall ascendancy.
Believe in God and defeat the left?
That’s a bit ironic, Christ would likely have been a leftie if the political polarities had been invented by then.
You wonder why we can’t make headway against the left?
Speak for yourself Red.
It is you and your ilk who race around frantically lashing out at gays and atheists, while feminist socialists take over right under your nose. What you have totally missed in your obsession with homos, is that most of the socialist doctrine forced on us has been done by WOMEN. Even the over hyped gay issue is driven by WOMEN. Not by male poofters. Women have been at the fore of the socialist movement here and have done more damage than any other group. They are natural born socialists. But you are too gutless and silly to lash out at them and pick on the tiny percentage of the population who are fags.
JC seemed to be a bit against small businesses and money men. He seemed to be tolerant of at least one prostitute. He was a real socialist when it came to feeding people and taking responsibility for their health and wellbeing. He’d have been a bit radical for the conservatives.
And his parents wouldn’t have fitted the mum and dad married with their own kids ideal.
“….Even the over hyped gay issue is driven by WOMEN….’
Homosexuality in the west today is really just a by-product that was spat out by the feminists while they munched their way through the fabric of society!
Harriet, I agree that all relationships are not the same. No problem there and I encourage you to maintain your values.
What I do not agree with is the State defining our relationships for us. I support traditional marriage, be it Christian or otherwise. But it must be based on our values and not those imposed by the State.
Your really do not want government having any view on this issue. Imagine what Klark would have done by now if we were still under her man hating socialist regime. It would not be good for white, straight, males or traditional marriage.
What women? Socialism certainly co-opts women and tries to turn them into quasi-men, however, given the long history of socialism, and communism, you’ll find that most of the driving force for it has been from men, not women. Even in NZ, most of our law makers are men – it’s not women putting through the socialist laws, they just don’t have the numbers to do so by themselves.
Homosexuality in the west today is really just a by-product that was spat out by the feminists while they munched their way through the fabric of society!
True. The days of feminists being about equality are way way way behind us. The agenda now is the deconstruction of our society and the imposition of socialism. It is for that reason I have considerable patience with the anti gay marriage folk, though I do not oppose gay marriage myself.
No way would Our Lord have been a leftie. Or even a rightie. As God, He had a completely different purpose on earth than politics, which He leaves up to us.
JC seemed to be a bit against small businesses and money men.
“Seemed” is the operative word here. He spoke quite highly of Abraham, who, according to the Hebrew texts was a very wealthy man. While the moneychangers in the temple did get a hammering, a closer inspection of of the older text referred to by the gospels indicates that violence was the issue rather than money. Love of money being the root of all evil is a Pauline doctrine which is contracted by Isaiah.
a) The group of beings, called “God”, who created man(kind), male and female, in their own image (Genesis 1:26).
b) The deity of Abraham who said “I am one” (Deuteronomy 6:4)
c) The construct invented by monotheistic Christianity to explain Stephen’s vision of the son of man at the right hand of deity.
I wouldn’t call it sitting on the fence so much as being condescending.
As for the trope about “Jesus seeming like a bit of a lefty” – that is a misconception dilettantes are quite prone to. Usually it arises out of somebody taking a passing familiarity with religion and, rather than putting any real study or thought into the matter, simply draw their own trite conclusions. Interestingly enough, they will quite often quite happily pontificate to actual members of the religion as to what their religion actually teaches.
Do you know who these people remind me of? Biblical literalists. They are the obverse side of the same coin in that they are content to simply project their own views onto the the readings of an ancient text and just assume they are correct.
“…..[Marriage]….No it’s not, it’s getting a slight change to be slightly more universal. It will mean exactly the same to me….”
Slight change?
How fucken dumb are you Pete – going from scientific ‘matter’[procreation] to an ‘emotion’[childless gay relationships] is ‘slight change’?
And don’t insult infertile couples with a stupid reply Pete – or insult me with statistical abberations[a handful of hetro's who don't procreate.]
“….slightly more universal….” Then why not ‘fully universal’? what’s wrong with polygamists – don’t you have ‘feelings’ for their ‘emotions’ Pete? ….and they procreate!
It will “still mean the same to you” won’t it Pete if polygamists get Married!
Jesus told us that we personally, as individuals, need to help others less fortunate than ourselves – he did not teach that we should force others to do the same via taxation and BIG GOVERNMENT
While the moneychangers in the temple did get a hammering
Just out of interest UT, the reason that happened was because in those days a sacrifice offering was required. Pharisees being pharisees had decided that burnt offerings like the odd pigeon caught in the field wasn’t acceptable anymore. No. A shekel was the required offering and nothing else was acceptable. Therefore a demand was created for people at the Temple who exchanged goods etc for shekels, since those weren’t that common amongst the poor. Who knows, the pharisees probably got a kickback as well. Anyway, guess what? The bloody moneychangers who incidentally were the first bankers, started ripping off the poor by demanding a great deal in exchange for their shekels, thus creating a barrier between the poor and God.
That’s why Jesus did it and it’s the only passage in the Bible where Jesus exhibited violence. I daresay if the bankers moneychangers had struck a reasonable exchange rate it wouldn’t have happened.
By its ‘thou shalt no steal’ commandment Yahweh absolutely prohibited redistribution of wealth.
Crikey wat does your biblical ignorance know any bounds whatsoever? Duh. What about the parable where Jesus instructed the rich young man to give away all he owned and take up his cross and follow him? If that’s not “wealth redistribution” then what is?
To be fair – he never endorsed a particular economic program. Nowhere, however, did he propose that the state redistribute wealth through taxation. Certainly, moreover, free enterprise is compatible with Christianity – it gradually emerged in the context of Christendom, after all.
I personally support free enterprise because, A) I believe it is an efficient way of creating general prosperity and, B) I think it promotes moral behaviour – because you can only succeed in a market by serving others effectively (as opposed to other systems where you succeed by acquiring political power or through coercion.
However, it’s a matter of prudential judgment and other good Christians are free to disagree. Some are socialists. In the 19th and 20th Century, a lot of good Christian thinkers (Chesterton, Belloc, Doroth Day, Leo XIII) tried to articulate a theory of distributism that was neither capitalistic or socialistic. Again, it’s a matter for human judgment.
The only dumb thing to say is “I have read the sermon on the mount and so I think Jesus must be a Labour supporter.”
Either Christ was who he said he was or he wasn’t. If he was, then you shouldn’t put words in his mouth without serious study. If you think he wasn’t, then I have no idea why you would want to cite him for support for any particular political program you favour.
In regards to the rich young man – that’s not wealth redistribution – the purpose of Our Lord was to give the rich young man what he asked for, and recognition in the young man’s case, that his wealth was holding him back.
Reid,
Yes, animal sacrifice was still practiced in the temple despite it having been deprecated by the prophets. The reason the moneychangers were thown out according to the gospels is:
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Matthew 21:13
The “it is written” refers to Jeremiah 7:11, which speaks of robbers, not thieves.
Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen [it], saith the YHWH.
Strong’s H6530 – pĕriyts
1) violent one, breaker
a) robber, murderer
Sacrifice is essential to the Christian interpretation, but is refuted time and time again by the prophets, for example…
But if ye had known what [this] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matthew 12:7
God is a Trinity. One God, three persons. Each person is also considered to be God.
Well, since that doesn’t describe (a) the “God” of Genesis 1:26 or (b) the singular deity of Abraham, the logical inference is that the answer to my question is:
c) The construct invented by monotheistic Christianity to explain Stephen’s vision of the son of man at the right hand of deity.
This has led me to believe that the British monarchy is a construct by constitutional scholars as a fiction of convenience.
The divine right of kings alluded to by the motto “Dieu et mon droit” doesn’t work for the house of Windsor because the description of the Anglican “God” in their articles of religion doesn’t match the description of deity found in the texts which describe the advent of that right.
Lucia my interpretation is that it wasn’t his wealth that was holding back the young man, it was his attitude toward it. I recognise wealth redistribution is a secondary interpretation of that parable but note that Jesus in Mat 19:21 does specifically tell him in the parable to give it to the poor and there is a thread of that spread throughout in particular the NT.
UT, the necessity of sacrifice was done away with only when Jesus died and the temple curtain was torn in half, symbolising the Holy of Holies was now open to all. But you did prompt me to do some research and the offering is explained in Exodus. So it wasn’t the pharisees who ordered it but God speaking to Moses. And it was half not a full sheckel. However this doesn’t change my main point which is why Jesus did it in the first place, and if the moneychangers weren’t ripping off the people via an unfair exchange rate, then why did He do it?
Exd 30:12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the LORD, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when [thou] numberest them.
Exd 30:13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel [is] twenty gerahs:) an half shekel [shall be] the offering of the LORD.
Exd 30:14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.
Exd 30:15 The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when [they] give an offering unto the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.
It is a large step from having faith in there being a God and thus having faith in God to accepting the bible as being a source of knowledge about God.
Faith in the bible being the word of God became (for some) faith in Jesus being the word of God in the flesh. He is praised for this by those who believe it is the word of God and not so by those who do not. The irony regarding this is that he would appear to have written not one word of it.
I suppose those amongst humanity who claim to have knowledge of God are those who build the religions that others who came after them have come to place their faith in. Moses, Jesus and Paul and Mohammed.
Moses exploited faith in a God (fear and obedience) that killed human life to establish a law of God for the covenant nation and then Christianity and Islam exploited that example to create terms and conditions for entry by the fearful and obedient into the kingdom of God after a mortal life comes to an end.
What some Christians fear most is an examination of their faith by who are not Christians – especially Catholics. Whereas other Christians welcome a debate about bible meaning.
The Trinity is a construct, partly based on logos, the idea of emanation from God also being God or belonging to God. Thus word of God proceeds from God and then word of God being with the church somehow binds the church to God – thus enabling the presence of the holy spirit with the church.
The concept was supposed to convince Greek philosphers as to the wisdom of the bible tradition, it was also useful to the church to claim a continuing authority on earth with them.
Well, since that doesn’t describe (a) the “God” of Genesis 1:26 or (b) the singular deity of Abraham, the logical inference is that the answer to my question is:
c) The construct invented by monotheistic Christianity to explain Stephen’s vision of the son of man at the right hand of deity.The construct invented by monotheistic Christianity to explain Stephen’s vision of the son of man at the right hand of deity.
Ugly Truth,
In your search for trying to understand what God is and therefore erroneously deciding that the Trinity was invented, consider the beginning of the Gospel of John, what happened when Our Lord was baptised and what Our Lord said about the Father and how He would send an Advocate to the Apostles when He went back to the Father.
The Trinitarian explanation of God was not invented.
Indeed.
Jesus said to the disciples, “those who have seen me have seen the Father”.
“Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, `Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me?
In Hebrews, we have God calling his Son, ‘God’.
But God says about his Son,
“You are God,
and you will rule
as King forever!
I know it’s a hard thing to get your head around. It’s a mystery and we’re not supposed to understand it completely.
There are places on the net where you can study and find out more about it.
It is a large step from having faith in there being a God and thus having faith in God to accepting the bible as being a source of knowledge about God.
SPC you raise one of the most fundamental theological questions there are, about which reams have been written. Because of this very point my own personal preference is the King James, which I understand to be the most faithful English replication of the ancient Greek and Hebrew manuscripts.
While it’s said to be hard-going by some because of the archaic language, personally I’ve never found it thus and if others do find it so, I recommend prayer seeking clarity as a most effective way to penetrate it. Once you do penetrate it and just look straight through the words and enter the book, as you do with a novel, you will find the most magnificent profound poetic pithiness far exceeding any of that written by Shakespeare.
Sadly I haven’t yet found time in life to learn ancient Greek and Hebrew and I fear I’ll never be so inclined. It’s true this lack of effort on my part does mean I’ll forever rely on a potentially incorrect reading but this doesn’t matter to me. Why?
Because my religion doesn’t happen in a book, but in my heart.
As I’ve said many times before, the basis of my religion is my personal relationship with my God, my Creator. It doesn’t fundamentally reside in what my church tells me or even in what the Bible tells me although the lessons and teachings from both those and other sources all feed into the mix.
Many non-Christians seem to fail to appreciate this distinction. They seem to think that Christians regard the Bible like a math textbook, where the regression equations are black and white and if you don’t apply the right formula according to the text, you’ll never get the “right” answer: i.e. be a “good” Christian. But this misses a very important element of the Christian faith. Prayer.
Prayer is conversation with God and it’s both listening and speaking. Christian meditation for example, where no words are spoken not even in one’s own mind, is a very common Christian practice. It goes back to the silence, the nothingness, the place where the only thing in the world is God. You close your eyes and try to quiet the thoughts racing round in your head, it’s not easy. But that’s another form of what we do. And the objective of this is not to plaintively wail about our troubles and problems but to seek and be with God, to be with His wisdom, His mercy, His love, in the silence.
Just as reams have been written about the Bible and is it the true word of God so have reams been written about prayer. My point is, the Bible is not the only form of reference we Christians have and use and it’s a shame that many non-Christians appear to hallucinate that it is, for it means those non-Christians are fundamentally missing some very significant aspects of what it means, to be a Christian.
UT, the necessity of sacrifice was done away with only when Jesus died and the temple curtain was torn in half, symbolising the Holy of Holies was now open to all.
Yes, that’s what many Christians think. The rational view can be found by looking at the description of the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34, rather than relying on a purely doctrinal interpretation.
Reid, is not meditation and prayer only Christian in relationship to received bible and church religion? The same meditation occurs amongst Jews and Moslems. Somewhat so within Hinduism and Buddhism.
‘”Organised religion. ..a desease born of fear and a source of untold misery to the human race.
Science can help us to get over this craven fear in which mankind has lived for so many generations. Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look around for imaginery supports, no longet to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look at our own efforts here below to make this world a fit place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries made it.”
Why is it Bible is accepted as truth and all the palaver that goes with it and Apollo is dismissed as a Greek myth.
Why is it that both the Greeks and the Romans had identical gods ( with different names) but they are just ignored by the Johnny come lately christians.
The greek gods rose up to Olympus just like jesus rose up, so why this superior attitude from the Christians
Pauleastbay, it can be argued that once upon a time there were people who believed in a Creator God who thought that their God wanted them to survive natural disasters. Whereas otherwise in the world there were those who thought natural disasters were acts of god to kill them. This separated one people from the superstitions of the others. But of course contamination from the world around them then set in.
And Bertrand Russell (as illustrated by a famous debate) does not have anything to base his morality on other than “his feelings”.
An idea of the problem for atheists was illustrated in the famous radio debate between the Jesuit philosopher and historian of philosophy Frederick Copleston and the anti-Christian mathematical logician Bertrand Russell:
Bertrand Russell [BR]: You see, I feel that some things are good and that other things are bad. I love the things that are good, that I think are good, and I hate the things that I think are bad. I don’t say that these things are good because they participate in the Divine goodness.
Frederick Copleston [FC]: Yes, but what’s your justification for distinguishing between good and bad or how do you view the distinction between them?
BR: I don’t have any justification any more than I have when I distinguish between blue and yellow. What is my justification for distinguishing between blue and yellow? I can see they are different.
FC: Well, that is an excellent justification, I agree. You distinguish blue and yellow by seeing them, so you distinguish good and bad by what faculty?
Why is it Bible is accepted as truth and all the palaver that goes with it and Apollo is dismissed as a Greek myth.
Why is it that both the Greeks and the Romans had identical gods ( with different names) but they are just ignored by the Johnny come lately christians.
The greek gods rose up to Olympus just like jesus rose up, so why this superior attitude from the Christians
Pauleastbay, because the things that happen in the Bible are backed up by history. People experienced the miracles of God in the old and new testaments. The people and places really existed. The events really took place. The events in Greek and Roman myths may as well have taken place on Mars.
People have always believed in God(s) but why are the Christians so dismissive of any other story that different races believe in. At the end of the day most of it is about rules that make sense ( don’t murder each other, pretty basic sensible stuff)
I know if I lived a good life and stated on here that i am a follower of the greek gods and I believe that by following them is the one true religion the ” superior few” on here would be decrying me as a pagan and idolterator in no time flat. Look at the shit the muslims cop because some want to blow up planes. I defy anyone to show me that every muslim on the planet agrees with terrorisim, pure bollocks.
Why does Russell need a ‘treaty’ to have sensible feelings.?
once again Fletch because , for what ever reason, you require a ‘religious constitution” to guide you through life not everyone does. But if you and i both live good lives and don’t fuck with our fellow man too much, what difference does it make where we get our good behaviour from. I personally don’t require an instrcution book to know its not cricket to shag my mates wife, but some do, but if niether of us do shag our mates wife , its a good result.
Pauleastbay, the monotheist premise is that the concept of Creator God is the high god (as in lesser or lower gods were the creations of men) of henotheism. The criticism of this is that the claim of knowledge of the monetheist God reduces this faith into just another creation of man. This very point was conceded at the very beginning when those of Creator Godfaith were warned not to eat the apple/claim knowledge of God.
Grace of God, unmerited entry into the Kingdom of God after death is an attempt to return to the original Godfaith. Not by obedience to the knowledge of the law of the god created by man, but by God’s love for man.
The rational view can be found by looking at the description of the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34, rather than relying on a purely doctrinal interpretation.
UT I don’t see a contradiction between what I said and that passage. Where do you see it?
Reid, is not meditation and prayer only Christian in relationship to received bible and church religion?
Yes it is SPC and thanks for giving me an opportunity to clarify because on re-reading my 6:20 it seems a bit like I was suggesting “what I think, goes” which I definitely don’t think. What I was meaning whether or not I clearly conveyed it, was that I use a range of sources to discern my path. If my path was always clear, laid out before me like a yellow-brick road, why it would all be simple. But it’s not simple, discernment is a critical aspect of religion and I use all my sources to discern my best current interpretation of the correct way, which I get wrong from time to time. Getting it wrong is what we call sin, and we’re all sinners, Christians and non-Christians. It’s part of the human condition. But just because I fall off the wagon from time to time or in my case, every single day, doesn’t mean I’m condemned, provided I’m serious about getting back on it and trying again and provided I’m serious about repenting: i.e. leaving my past sins behind me and not returning again and again to my own crapulence like a dog to its own vomit. That is how I see it, I can’t speak for any others but that is how I use the Bible, the teachings of my Church and Biblical scholars and prayer and everything else I use, in my way of faith. Weak though it may be.
SPC, while not pretending to know bugger all about monotheism other what i just skimmed on wiki, the point I’m trying to make is what difference does it make whether you are a christian, a jew, muslim or a pagan idol worshipper if we treat each other decently. Thats what Russell was driving at.
My basic understanding of buddhism is that you can do anything you like as long as what you do does not affect any thing else in a negative fashion. Personally I think that’s a bloody good way to live, impossible perhaps, but something to strive for and as humans if we looked inwards while working towards something like that rather than minding everyone elses business , the world may be a lot better
Lucia, correct I was, but I’ve had lots of experiences to turn me away, in fact the Catholic church is presently one of the most flawed organisations on earth, correction, not an organization , one of the most flawed business’s on earth, the business model is nearly perfect but its run in a hugly corrupt way.
I don’t see a contradiction between what I said and that passage. Where do you see it?
You said “… symbolising the Holy of Holies was now open to all”, but in the book of Jeremiah the parties to the covenant remain unchanged, i.e. the house of Israel & the house of Judah are not all people.
PEB, how come Russell as someone so brainy can at the same time miss the point so profoundly?
Hasn’t he understood that religion is not a scientific matter? It can’t be replicated in a lab, it’s not something physical, you can’t measure it, therefore all the scientific tools yet invented even today let alone when he wrote that, are inadequate. This is not a comment on religion because it exists, it’s a provable phenomena. It’s a comment rather on the inadequacy of science.
BTW, how do you explain the thousands of scientists who are religious?
Isn’t that a contradiction in terms?
in the book of Jeremiah the parties to the covenant remain unchanged, i.e. the house of Israel & the house of Judah are not all people
OT vs NT UT. NT opens the doors from the tribe of Israel to all the people of the world. OT was specifically directed toward the ancient tribe of Israel (who as a side issue not relevant but may as well mention, are not the current inhabitants of the State of Israel today).
Soooo…. based on your knowledge of Catholicism, you’d be able to answer most, if not all of the questions you raised with regards to the Greek gods, I presume? Or, to save time – is there a question you can’t actually answer yourself that you’d like answered?
Pauleastbay, before the birth of Yeshua/Jesus Jewish Rabbis had begun to sum up the law as doing no harm to others (moving to the realm of ethical behaviour as a code for Jews living around the world, rather than the former covenant nation law). The metaphor was standing on one leg to sum up the Torah law, then being told to use the other leg and do only good for others. Thus by using both legs, then being on the straight ahead or narrow path or way that Jesus spoke of. The Samaritans also kept the law, so the story of the Samaritan stopping to do good for a Jew by the road was an example of this occuring between peoples rather than just within one group tradition.
Hasn’t he understood that religion is not a scientific matter?
He doesn’t say it is, what he says is …Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look around for imaginery supports, no longer to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look at our own efforts here below to make this world a fit place to live in
thats easy to understand surely, we should be able to live decent lives without relying on myth and a instruction book that has caused millions and millions to suffer because of the zealots that follow this book and that science can help us do this
But people were treating each other decently for thousands of years BC they did’nt need the christian instruction book to do this, why the superior attitude , why the condemnation of other belief systems by the Christians?
Reid, given the state of Israel does not include all Jews, of course the status/role of the state of Israel in religion is tenuous. But the book of Ezekiel does refer to those settling the former tribal areas and living there being seen as a new beginning for the tribes – and being seen as of those former tribes.
The inter-group problem is the difficulty for Jews/Christians/Moslems in seeing others as fellow humans of Godfaith in or of these tribes – more so given the relative difference in importance each group would place on such tribal identity.
The only answer I would be interested in is (two actually) firstly, why Christians have this huge superiority thing over other religions when the bible ect is hugely based on the myths and the tales in the bible are common in other civilizations albeit under different names
the second one was what was the life changing event that made you revert to fundemental Catholisism
Pauleastbay, religion is connected to nationalism. Nations oppressed other nations in demanding imperial tribute or war and captivity. The concept of one humanity before one God was supposed to bring peace and justice between the nations etc. Of course if there is more than one Godfaith, then the rivalry just goes global – Western Christendom vs caliphate.
There you presuming that its all Christian, there were shitloads of relgions BC, they just came and went just like business’s and the business metaphor is not too far off the mark,- about controlling a product i.e people.
why Christians have this huge superiority thing over other religions when the bible ect is hugely based on the myths and the tales in the bible are common in other civilizations albeit under different names
The Bible isn’t actually based on other myths, contrary to what the Zeitgeist movie tried to portray.
The film maker tried to create something to create a sensation, but that stuff has been debunked years ago.
Kea,
Regarding the “God does not exist” position, how is it that the earliest societies were adept in construction (eg Gobekli Tepe, Puma Punku)? They must have had help of some kind, and they wrote about deities.
Pauleastbay – I’ll rephrase my answer then, Christians saw their one Godfaith for all people as superceding the religions of the nations before Zion. The tactic struggled in the face of the emergence of a rival called Islam and the survival of Judaism and Hinduism and its offshoot Buddhism. Thus Western Christendom and the caliphate as the only two with (thwarted) global ambition.
SPC- Christianity had a 600 year jump on islam why did’nt it take hold in that time prior to Mohommad getting involved?
World domination, – again the business metaphor
Fletch- the Bible &; Koran have much in common for starters and there are numerous stories in the bible that go back to the myths Jonah is one, I can’t be bothered dragging the books out but the bible is not ‘the book’ ,at the very best its writers should have been sued for plagerisim on a grand scale. have a read of Robert graves The Greek Myths for starters
UglyTruth (287) Says:
March 10th, 2013 at 7:46 pm
Kea,
Regarding the “God does not exist” position, how is it that the earliest societies were adept in construction (eg Gobekli Tepe, Puma Punku)? They must have had help of some kind, and they wrote about deities.
And I wrote that god does not exist. Writing something does not make it real.
Being “adept at construction” does not prove the existence of god. I have worked on building sites and I can assure you, with some confidence, god was not helping. There are no unexplained engineering feats from ancient times, in spite of urban myths to the contrary. Even it there was, it does not prove a higher power was involved.
The choices are not: offer an explanation or admit god exits.
how is it that the earliest societies were adept in construction
because some poor bastard ,some where was told , “I want this sorted by next Thursday, so stop fucking around and get it done, I’ve raised the loan you build it”.
Pauleastbay, Christianity was not dominant in the West until the Roman state established the religion. Christianity also existed throughout the ME, possibly at pre Roman Empire adoption strength, but was superceded when Islam rose into political power and taxed non Moslems at a higher rate etc. The reason few Arabs in Arabia were Christian was probably because of the difficulty in sending missionaries into the desert where the tribes were. And otherwise the difficulty in converting these tribes enmass when only some of these people arrived at trade centres along the Red Sea etc, more so when there were strong Jewish communities in the area resistant to Christianity.
hey just came and went just like business’s and the business metaphor is not too far off the mark,- about controlling a product i.e people.
Pauleastbay, good observation. It amuses me no end to be sitting here in 2013 watching people defend a desert cult from the other side of the world formed before NZ was even discovered by Maori/Vikings/Lizard People…
Do they not realise that people are just as believing in all the other gods that have been invented ? As for differences between the Koran & Bible, that is splitting hairs. The main difference is in how the books are followed. Our Muslim brothers are more inclined to actually follow the “word of God” while the slippery Christians will distort Gods clear words to suit the sensibilities of the society they live in. At times those sensibilities have extended to horrific torture and mutilation of non believers.
Andrei (for example) is one of the best warriors against the left I have observed
Not to mention one of the worst possible advocates for the teachings and philosphy of the person after whom the religion that Andrei asserts he follows was named. That of course makes him, like you, one of the biggest hypocrites here. Unfortunately, the binary thinking model with which you’re burdened, doesn’t allow you to see this.
A phoney Christian and a bare-faced insult to genuine Christians, whilst providing an easy target for those who enjjoy taking the piss. You are too stupid to realise that if Andrei, kowtow et al weren’t such out and out arseholes and gob-smacking hypocrites, the god-botherers wouldn’t attract anything like the the grief they get here.
Which leads into another point that someone has already made here today. WTF is the connection between right wing/left wing (to indulge in your facile nomenclature) and belief in G**? I mean really, just how fucking stupid are you?
There are no unexplained engineering feats from ancient times
What is your explanation for how a 131 metric tonne block of sandstone was transported over a distance of 10 miles to the top of a mountain in ancient times?
SPC
:In the early seventh century AD, the prophet Mohammed ordered his faithful to respect all peoples who worshipped God according to their own sacred scriptures, as the Faithful themselves must obey the Koran which God had inspired him to write. This order ensured relegious liberty to Jews througout Islam: and to all Christians so long only as they made no attempt to convert Moslems to Christianity. On the otherhand, all people who relied merely on popular myths or unwritten doctrine were treated as infidels and invited to choose between conquest or conversion to Islam” The Bible in Europe. Essay by Robert Graves 1964.
So we see, there is no real difference between Christins and Moslems, the Crusades pretty much did the same thing but a lot more brutally.
were strong Jewish communities in the area resistant to Christianity who saw Christianity was just another fad and didn’t want a bar of it.
I thought 400 tonnes was the heaviest to be transported in SA, Tihuanaco? How they floated that goes beyond any engineering technique using the knowledge of the day. My favourite is the unfinished stones of Baalbek, when you see the scale with a person standing on them, it boggles the mind.
This Blog is turning to shit.
General Debate is Generally Religious Debate and Global Warming Crap.
Same old, same old, same cork soakers pushing the same bullshit. Fucks sake dont you morons have a life?
Let’s see what happened when the Comp was off:
Pasifika.
Kumeu A & P
Bays run
And thats within 30km.
What did NZ do except whinge and moan on a Blog?
Lets talk sports then Steve.
Re the Auckland Blues- always enjoyable to see a team come crashing down to earth after hyping themselves off the planet (if you had listened to the chest beating and trash talking coming out of that camp the Super comp was done and dusted already)
Re the cricket- How the hell were that World class English batting line-up so freaking awful on that first day?
Nice to see the Blues open up the contest with the Crusaders and Hurricanes for the second New Zealand team spot in the top 6. Now only the Highlanders are out of it – too weak in the loose forwards.
The Reds and Brumbies have already sorted it over the Tasman. The Sharks/Stormers/Bulls as usual over there for their two spots.
So grumpy Steve (North Shore) considers religion and AGW boring but thinks cricket and a bunch of guys groping each other in a paddock is the business. I guess that is how they roll on the N Shore
So, by buying the energy companies shares, would we be retarding new power tech from being used or being set up here if there was tech that was made available that was cheap but most importantly available to the individual? Do you see what i mean?
UglyTruth, the answer lies in engineering principles not in superstition.
Kea, what engineering principles were applied to move a 131 tonne block over uneven terrain up a mountain? Your video shows a guy moving a 1 tonne block over a smooth flat surface, How would you even quarry a block of sandstone measuring in excess of 5 by 7 by 1 meters?
Azeraph, I read that the 400 tonne figure was debunked for Puma Punka. But I’ve yet to read any explanation for moving stone blocks on this scale that is consistent with the official story about technology in history. The simplest explanation is that they had help from an advanced culture, and the most commonly described advanced culture in historical texts is a group of deities or divine beings.
UglyTruth, I already gave you the answer. It is up to you to look for the details.
There is no excuse for a someone with an internet connection, and interest in the topic, to not know the answers. But even if engineering could not provide answers as to how the stone was moved or quarried (it does) then it would in no way provide evidence of god or some other higher power.
Lucia my interpretation is that it wasn’t his wealth that was holding back the young man, it was his attitude toward it.
I agree with you there! The best explanation of this story that I have ever read is in Veritatis Splendor. It goes into a lot of detail, starting with section 6: CHAPTER I – “TEACHER, WHAT GOOD MUST I DO…? ” (Mt 19:16) – Christ and the answer to the question about morality.
I recognise wealth redistribution is a secondary interpretation of that parable but note that Jesus in Mat 19:21 does specifically tell him in the parable to give it to the poor and there is a thread of that spread throughout in particular the NT.
I wouldn’t call it wealth redistribution – more like charity to those that have less that you.
Bugger! so it wasn’t 400 tonnes. There are the trithilon stones but 70′s alien nutters have sullied those stones mystery, some still believe they were part of an ancient landing pad. One only has to apply common logic to see through that farce. A space faring species needs a landing/launch pad? With today’s circumstantial evidence available debunks that idea. somehow ancient man shifted massive weight without radically changing the landscape, i don’t agree with what you stated but if it’s the only explanation available then it’s the only explanation available.
Azeraph, are you suggesting the government is selling shares in the SOE’s to reduce their risk of such rival power on the market or of obtaining consumer consent (those who own shares) to suppressing rival power supply tech?
The other investor unknown is when the smelter shuts down and all that extra supply comes onto the market.
Ugly Truth The simplest explanation is that they had help from an advanced culture, and the most commonly described advanced culture in historical texts is a group of deities or divine beings.
Thats not the simplest explanation rather an explanation for the simple
Longknives, the press and the public (probably including myself) have been talking up the blues. Not the team, or if they were, now they know the fight they’re in.
As far as those visitors from the mother country go, they walked into a sucker punch because of observation of their own importance, then couldn’t adjust.
The history of the pyramids is well documented except for the valley temple and the Sphinx, that statue and temple display aging that goes beyond the official history.
The only answer I would be interested in is (two actually) firstly, why Christians have this huge superiority thing over other religions when the bible ect is hugely based on the myths and the tales in the bible are common in other civilizations albeit under different names
We believe our religion to be true. If something is true, it is vastly superior to that which is not true, surely?
As for common myths and tales in other civilisations, you mentioned the Koran in a comment to Fletch. Islam is a Catholic heresy, that’s why there are commonalities. Hilaire Belloc explains it in The great and enduring heresy of Mohammad, of which I give an excerpt in the link, and also give the link to the full chapter.
There are also prophesies in many different cultures of Our Lord’s coming. God made sure that His Son was pre-announced, and it wasn’t just to the Jews. Fulton Sheen, in his book on the Life of Christ, lists a number of various ancient writings in support of this idea. You’ve got to think, if God is real, if all of Christianity is actually true, then why wouldn’t He make sure that everyone expected Jesus to be born at some point?
the second one was what was the life changing event that made you revert to fundemental Catholisism
I started blogging, which lead to research, which lead to re-examination of history, which lead to reading more and more about the Church in history and in current times, which lead to reading encyclicals, which eventually lead to realising the Church was really what she said she was. It was quite a shock when I got to this point. And my brother had been praying for me to revert back every night for years.
Not rival power but common agreed upon money making to get in the way of future tech being made available to home owners, now, what if there was a tech available that could take home owners off the grid? People think power as a collective usage system, the grid but what if there came a time when people took themselves off the grid? Where would the market be for these companies that suddenly go bunk? Will we ourselves retard the market to keep these companies going because we have money riding on it? will we ourselves slow progress down here? It’s a future Q but has to be asked as technology tends to start out large and progresses down to the personal individual level. Any thoughts?
Those “visitors from the Mother Country” (A strange terminology!) adjusted pretty well when they smacked nearly 500 in the second innings. They also looked pretty damn good when they thrashed NZ in the One-Dayers.
I just find their First Innings meltdown bizarre (Indian Bookmaker ‘Bizarre’?)..
I was an atheist for a while. It was temporarily freeing and empty at the same time. It didn’t answer the eternal questions of life and death and why, so my atheism was very short lived.
And re the Blues- I’m sorry but Ali ‘The Self-Professed Comedian’ Williams is an absolute tosser. Every time he is interviewed something obnoxious or mindblowingly arrogant comes out of his mouth. I look forward to the Blues floundering at the bottom of the table this year even more than I usually do..
We believe our religion to be true. If something is true, it is vastly superior to that which is not true, surely?
you’re entitled to just like the Moslem and the Jew and the Buddhist, but just because you believe it doesn’t make it so. Thats where the arrogance of the Catholic church grates , there is no more proof that your belief system is true than the Moslem, the Jew or the Buddhist.
if all of Christianity is actually true, then why wouldn’t He make sure that everyone expected Jesus to be born at some point?
again there is no proof that christianity is true, its just you are a particular supporter of that team, nothing more, absolutely no different from a Man U supporter over a Man City supporter.
feel free to be a supporter but there are other teams out there to support and again there is nothing to indicate that your team is right.
I thought he gave a great post match, he was annoyed and showed a bit of passion something they didn’t have last year. The only good thing was I was bloody glad the softball was on and didn’t spend $55 at the park
This being the same Ali Williams who last year told media that Super Rugby didn’t mean anything to him? (When they were querying his rather dubious All Black selection)
1. presumably the capital cost of the independent household supply would limit the uptake rate, slowly diminish existing providers
2. the capacity to store energy or the network capacity to interface with households supplying or downloading
UglyTruth, I already gave you the answer. It is up to you to look for the details.
The answer is that you have no clue how they did it, just like the idiot in the orange t-shirt has no clue. What this means is that the simplest explanation is they had help, and the most probable source of help was the advanced beings written about in ancient texts, who would be described as being gods.
It didn’t answer the eternal questions of life and death and why, so my atheism was very short lived.
That proves nothing except you’re fickle and have obviously spent far to much time worrying about the end of the movie rather than enjoying the show.
Heres the eternal answers – we are here for a very short time, live it as decently as you can while having as much fun as you can because you die at the end, I know thats a plot spoiler but thats what happens. No secret. Unfortunately there are those that have a really shitty time of it but thats another secret of life – it isn’t fair.
Bad luck with that longknives. I bet you needed a nappy change after seeing Ali collapse those rolling mauls and winning the ball, nothing like the tough stuff up front. I guess you could try ‘pick up sticks’ while wearing pilot goggles, flippers and a duck suit. That might settle your nervous condition.
What is the difference between the two, PaulEastBay
I don’t have a prejudice over this, its just you stagger me that when there is something you can’t understand it has to be a diety that caused it. There are lots of things I don’t understand and life is too short to worry about a lot of them but when something is important I try and find out logically not take the fat man track and go for ‘ it must be God becuase its over my head’
the simplest explanation is they had help, and the most probable source of help was the advanced beings written about in ancient texts, who would be described as being gods.
Tell us more about these advanced beings? Where are they now ?
I see all the soap boxes are in full use, that ought to be a help to somebody lonely.
Lonely folks these days are most probably by themselves. I don’t have proof of that, but I’ve seen turtle shells belonging to missing turtles and that could mean something.
“Bad luck with that longknives. I bet you needed a nappy change after seeing Ali collapse those rolling mauls and winning the ball, nothing like the tough stuff up front.”
You are aware that the allegedly ‘invincible’ Blues got beat aren’t you?
“I guess you could try ‘pick up sticks’ while wearing pilot goggles, flippers and a duck suit. ”
If it were so simple pauleb, yet as you may know that case has since taken more worse turns for the Crown.
I liked your reply earlier about the reason for tapu after drownings or shark attacks, yet, most liberally – they are the power of who places or removes them, and who is afraid or respectful of what they may, or may not bring.
I was in my early 20′s and living a life of sin, so rejection of God was like a rejection of conscience. Something that had been brewing for years, when finally I made the decision. The thing that really struck me about that moment of rejecting God and becoming an atheist (for a while) was that is really was like God withdrew and left me alone. Totally alone.
Reid, you’re welcome. I love Veritatis Splendor. It is truly amazing.
Relax guys, we all know we are not alone in this part of the universe and that why they are not interested in showing themselves is quite obvious, there is nothing here they need. There’s no resources that they can’t get elsewhere for next to nothing, why bother with having to deal with the pinkies, why not just observe and see how things turn out. Earth, the big blue nature reserve.
We have nothing they need, if the planet did, then it was taken a long time ago, probably before us but then an advanced civilization wouldn’t need any raw material from a planet like ours would they? We’re talking about material creation and if you can get the raw from mining an asteroid belt or plasma then this planet has nothing at all.
There is speculation that our high level of storm activity is a draw card for topping up energy supplies but then our storms could be there version of a natural car wash.
March 10th, 2013 at 8:12 am
Ready, set……
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:14 am
http://rt.com/usa/air-force-scrubs-drone-data-025/
I guess Obama does not want to tarnish is Nobel Peace prize (awarded for the outstanding achievement of looking a bit more like dad than mum)
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:19 am
Similar to elsewhere Dunedin City Council want residents to register trees. This then means they have to jump through bureaucratic hoops every time they want to prune the trees.
You can imagine what would be required if you wanted to fell it.
Why would anyone volunteer tio register their trees? Snob value may devalue a property – and this is a warning to anyonelooking at buying a property with a tree on it in case it is protected by red tape.
Not surprisinging to see that Few trees added to register
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:25 am
Liberal governmet returned in Western Australia with increased majoroty…………….
Not good news for labour – either there or here
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:43 am
SMOG leads to odd claim.
What happens on Twitter should stay on Twitter (like Seven Sharp would keep any juicy tweets about others a secret)?
What happens on blog should stay on blog?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:11 am
The tale of a plagiarist: http://michellemalkin.com/2013/03/08/juan-williams-columns/
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:17 am
Manolo, a careless bit of cut n’ paste pales into comparison when compared with various lefty media who have fabricated entire stories, to fit their left wing narrative, along with stage managed video presentations.
You had better get your thinking in order before Red gets out of bed
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:28 am
I returned late last night from a tangi and skimmed over the KB before calling it a night. I had to chuckle over the posting in regards to “stone agers” and our practices.
For those who do not know, when a person drowns or is found dead for whatever reason in a local body of water, a tapu is placed on the a said body for a period of time before being lifted. There is no swimming, fishing or shellfish collecting during that time. I am (or will be) 50 shortly and was been taught this as a child by my grandfather. Most Maori will tell you the same. It is not a “new thing”, and I am truly surprised that this isn’t common knowledge to many others.
And most Maori that I know would be mortified at the idea of a koha was offered to lift the tapu.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:37 am
But Northland Wahine – you want this view forced on everyone. Thats the stoneage aspect of this.
Its the same with the shark attack off murawai recently – the beach was closed for 3 days by the local council I think. thats Stoneage (so being stoneage – ie: arrogant about ones beliefs – isnt restricted just to maori).
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:41 am
So, if you would’ve been taught Earth is at the centre of the solar system, you would still believed it, wouldn’t you? Myth has no place in modern society.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:45 am
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10870324
Another bunch of car thieves speeding away from police – when is the government going to treat this offending far more seriously. Even though the boy was 15 it is clear that he needs to be locked away from the public.
What sort of justice can give you life in prison for manufacturing a drug people choose to take versus a slap on the wrist to thieving c*nts who deliberately put any random road users life in the line by speeding away from police. These people should be given a sentence similar to attempted murder.
And not to mention the cost on society these f*ckers impose. How much of my yearly insurance bill is paid for car thieves? The only positive outcome that we have at the moment is that occasionlly these bastards kill themselves fleeing from police.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:46 am
Barry, I don’t recall saying that at all.
In the Muriwai shark attack, I was of the understanding that the council closed the beach for safety reasons, as they were worried about the shark returning, and not for cultural. I could be wrong.
Maori have acknowledged this practice for so long, it is 2nd nature. I’ve never heard of an incident where Maori have stopped people from swimming etc in an area after a death. It’s just something we do. That’s why I was genuinely surprised that it the story that Manola posted was given any media attention.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:51 am
NW
Thank you for the explanation concernign tapu. Many of us of an older generation were /are aware of the reasoning and logic behind it, but it seems to have become less well known over recent years.
However, re: ‘And most Maori that I know would be mortified at the idea of a koha was offered to lift the tapu’.
Sadly, as I am sure you are aware, because of abuse of the practice of the last 30 or so years, the use of ‘koha’ has been ‘cheapened’ and is now perceived by many non-Maori as being, for want of a better term a ‘back-hander’ or ‘bribe’ to ‘grease the wheels’. Things lsuchas the ‘Taniwha’ episode at Meremere have meant that, for a large number of New Zealander’s Its cultural significance has been seriously devalued and it is seen as just another means that Maori have discovered to ‘rip-off whitey’. On that basis, the offering of ‘Koha to lift a tapu’ is not an ureasonable response; ‘Koha’ works elswhere, so why not in such an event as a drowning?
Regrettably, and as abhorent as it is to most of us, the ‘common belief’ is that in fact, there are in fact Maori who are prepared to actually use Koha in this manner; it is after all, only a slight stage removed from what is already being done by Maori elsewhere, so by logical progression…
It is, I suppose an example of ‘unforseen consequences’, and inevitably does Maori no favours.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:02 am
barry (1,295) Says:
March 10th, 2013 at 9:37 am
But Northland Wahine – you want this view forced on everyone. Thats the stoneage aspect of this
Barry it was more a health thing, a rahui is put on incase the shell fish etc have been contamintaed by the body. There is a bit a a respect thing as well but mostly health. The only problem these days is the length they try and put a rahui on for, we had them in the eastern bay for 6 months if the body wasn’t recovered. That just pisses everyone off.
And it never stops you bottom fishing just diving
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:04 am
Kava party singing
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:07 am
Manola, Europeans thought the world was flat. I have no idea what ancient Polynesians thought, but yeah I get your point.
People show their respect in different ways. I don’t think any way should be forced upon another.
I come from the area of the far north where helicopter pilot John “Prickles” de Ridder and William Macrae lost there lives. Their helicopter went down where I was swimming this week, where kids and my moko fished, dived and kayaked. My brother who was caught in the fire and took refuge in the sea, told them what he could about the men that died so they would remember 2 brave men that lost their lives helping to save his. He also explained to them why a tapu was placed on the bay after their deaths.
A memorial service at the end of last year was held for these 2 brave men, where their family where treated as honoured guests on our family land to remind them of the appreciation and gratitude we still have for them. You may call it a living myth of stone agers. I call it respect.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:12 am
CB
Re: ‘these bastards kill themselves fleeing from police’. Yet such is the extent to which the liberals have hijacked the media, that in such a situation, according to news reports, it is invariably the fault of the Police that such deaths occur; never the ‘victims’ (note the use of the word). This is of course never actually stated per se’ – it is just heavily implied by careful and clever use of inuendo and implication. Individual responsibility for the consequences of one’s actions (even when it literally kills you) and respect for the Police by the MSM? Tui moment methinks.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:45 am
Was it the Greymouth Great War Memorial/Cenotaph that was bulldozed by local Maori?
Vote:*Of course they have a tremendous ‘spirituality’ and ‘respect for the dead’ that us lowly Pakeha cannot begin to understand…
March 10th, 2013 at 10:55 am
when Dime was about 13 we used to have a holiday house at taupo bay. some dude drowned and the local maori put one of their spells or bans or whatever on the beach.
no swimming for 3 days.. at the peak of summer.
needless to say young Dime spent all 3 days swimming…
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 11:00 am
Dime is off to Sydney to drink piss for 4 days.
tonight is thin lizzy/ motley crue/ kiss. Dime has backstage passes etc should be a fun night. im hoping for a tongue out pic with gene simmons. Dime has an incredibly long tongue.
Tuesday night is guns n roses. no backstage antics for that one but fun. zz top opening!
im also going to do a tour of the brothel my best friend runs. funny.
just thought id let you all know.. so as you soldier through your miserable lives you can wonder “whats dime up to?”
all the best
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 11:06 am
“You had better get your thinking in order before Red gets out of bed”
You’re the one who needs to get their head in order. You buy into so many left wing memes its amazing you can perceive yourself as right wing. And here you buy into the meme that FOX news is right wing. If you had any real knowledge of FOX news, rather than just bullshit gleaned from the lying left, you’d know that the only difference between FOX and the rest of the media is that FOX gives voice to a few commentators who are not completely left wing.
That is why they are hated by the left, because they have broken the agreement to keep non-progressives from expressing a view.
However they have almost as many left wing talking heads on as the rest of the media and Juan Williams is one of them. A dirty communist and racist, IOW a typical black progressive.
Get it now loser? Its not Manolo who needs to clue himself up, its you.
That’s the trouble with many of the self professed right in NZ, led so easily by the mainstream media they claim to hold in contempt, and buying into all kind of Marxist concepts without even understanding what they are doing.
(Another example- Your own irrational hatred of Christianity makes you worthless (like Viking2) for such bigotry is completely incompatible with Conservative values, and marks you clearly as an ally of the left.)
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 11:08 am
LK. When it is convienient.
Wahine. Some of what you say is true but you will forgive us from saying that much has been rorted in an attempt at mind control of others by certain people for the benefit of controlling others.
We don’t (YET), have a tapu when someone kills themselves up against a lampost in a car. Where would you hold it. In the car, pissed against the lampost, or at the Local Road Transit Office? where?
The world has moved on and whilst respect is one of the great parts of life, that respect is towards the individual, not to a piece of water, space, air of some other intangible item. e.g. my Dad died, (many long years ago), in hospital. Should I then place a tapu on that hospital? Which bit, someone else was no doubt in that bed within a day or so.
You can see the absurbity of the primal view.
Now, if a body was in the water and not found then I can accept that maybe fishing or netting may be difficult but if one looks at places like Piha where fishermen get washed off on a regular basis, what sort of an uproar would that cause.
Pay your respects by all means but that respect belongs to that person, not some other misguided ideal.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 11:14 am
The vendor was Hart companies Carter Holt Harvey HBU and Rank Group Property Investments.
The OIO’s approval notice kept the price paid for the farms confidential, but according to AP1’s report it invested 316 million krona ( $59.5m) for the New Zealand properties.
That indicates the farms were sold for under $19,000 per hectare, less than half the average price paid (39,976 per hectare) for dairy farms in the Waikato last year.
———————-
Well now that makes the Chinese purchase of Crafars look a tad expensive.
agreed these farms are not as productive as the Wailkato is but there must be a price flow on.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/8400314/Hart-dairy-farms-sold-at-a-discount
Oh yes and Hart may have needed the cash as well.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 11:29 am
(Another example- Your own irrational hatred of Christianity makes you worthless (like Viking2) for such bigotry is completely incompatible with Conservative values, and marks you clearly as an ally of the left.
——————————-
Fortunately Reddy one’s politics have jackshit to do with religious mania. Something you and many others so far haven’t managed to understand. Not surprisingly for clear thinking needs an unbiased brain, one that is not controlled by the very mind control that religion infuses into it. You are of course just another version of many of these religious cranks that infest KB, some also have left, communist, Muslim, Cathoilc Presbertarian beliefs moulded by their religous learning and leaning.
There are even right wing religious nutter’s around who expouse the conservative view that taint’s there politics.
Religion and politicsare two separate mind games. Some of us can separate the out. Most have them so intertwined that the religous views usurp their clear view of politics.
Politics is the contest of idea’s about how we should goven ourselves and many lefties have a better view of that than those who religious views are intertwined in their politics.
Politics should be a contest about ensuring the freedom of the indivdual to have a meaningful life. If one choses to also involve religion in their life, then that is their choice.
Only, when they use that choice to interfere in others live’s they have the crossed the line.
It is also true of everything else we do in life.
That includes you and many others. You are using your religious views in an attempt to impose what you consider other people shoud or should not do or be like.
So back to your statement that perhaps you should analyse again. Who is actually the bigoted?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 11:32 am
A really good first “Q&A” on One this morning, newly hosted by Susan Wood. There is some in-depth analysis of the show, here:
http://conzervative.wordpress.com/2013/03/10/analysis-tv1s-qa-2013-return
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 11:34 am
Good points Viking and duly noted. And to other posters, I understand the hypocrisy that is reported all to frequently by the media in regards to things pertaining to Maori and culture.
I don’t speak for all Maori. I do speak from personal experience as a Maori woman and how I see things. I don’t think it makes me right or wrong.
I have no problems when I am with some my extended whanau expressing my disgust at their lax attitude towards employment, drug and alcohol abuse, family violence and absentee parents. I am not the only one to do so.
Nor will I have any problems expressing my disgust to those who refer to my maori heritage, my whanau, my children and moko, as stone agers, ferals and other derogatory names, just as I will express my disgust towards Maori who do the same to my pakeha heritage.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 11:41 am
“You are using your religious views”
You’re wasting my time with your long winded bullshit based on a complete misrepresentation of my views.
I have stated on this blog countless times that I am agnostic. Never been in a church in my life.
What amazes me about you anti-Christian bigots is that you always seem completely oblivious to the fact that it is always the left who race in to support you when you start your Christian bashing.
If you had half a brain this might tip you off to just how you have been duped, and who you are helping with your venomous attacks.
And seeing you seem so fucking simple, let me explain something to you that would be obvious to anyone of normal intelligence. I am not saying that everyone needs to be religious, that is a matter of personal choice.
What I am saying is that your extreme and unreasonable bigotry towards Christianity, more an obsession, is a manifestation of Marxist brainwashing.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:00 pm
I’d agree with that if you said liberty instead of freedom. Freedom is ethically neutral, but liberty is constrained by law.
In the context of liberty, the state is not neutral regarding religion, it is athiestic. This is because it misrepresents the nature of common law by omitting the role of deity within the law. English common law has had an uneasy relationship with religion, but it is unequivocally theistic from its inception by King Alfred the Great.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:01 pm
Your own irrational hatred of Christianity makes you worthless (like Viking2)
incompatible with Conservative values
something just doesn’t gel here.
Irrational I suspect.
And as for being anti Christian—–
oh dear. I am certainly anti the views and actions of many mainly because when they use those views and actions to interfere in others live’s they have the crossed the line.
But anti christian, no for that would break my own rule.
And will I take the piss occasionally ? Well of course.
http://screencast.com/t/eYBjwKmcz
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:03 pm
UglyTruth (274) Says:
March 10th, 2013 at 12:00 pm
Politics should be a contest about ensuring the freedom of the indivdual to have a meaningful life.
I’d agree with that if you said liberty instead of freedom. Freedom is ethically neutral, but liberty is constrained by law.
——————
All to high brow for me.
Vote:Its really simple, apart from ensuring law and order and health and saftey the Govt. should piss off out of our lives.
March 10th, 2013 at 12:12 pm
Redbaiter (2,266) Says:
March 10th, 2013 at 11:06 am……………… blah blah blah blah….
Manolo used an example of a media outlet commonly portrayed as right wing. I simply reminded him how things roll on the left.
I find it amusing that you think your uniquely qualified to decide how a “right wing” person should think. It has nothing at all to do with God, Homos, or any of the other stuff you go on about.
Further, it is not necessary to disagree with every single thing the left does, in order to be right wing. You seem to not judge each case on its merits but adopt a position based on YOUR perception of what a proper conservative should think. You do not get to declare that, for the rest of us, by fiat.
You are not nearly as savvy or informed as you make out. Many of the biggest threats we face appear to go unnoticed by you, while you rail against fellow right wingers based on your distorted political views.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:12 pm
“And will I take the piss occasionally ?”
Taking the piss involves some degree of intelligence and wit resulting in humour. Your attempts are just ignorant bigotry.
You’re worthless because you fall for the left’s tactic of divide and conquer.
Conservative Christians are great allies in the fight against the Progressives yet fuckwits like you can’t see it.
Rather you continually fire bullets into your own ranks and the left love it, for they know that if the Christian right is marginalised that is one more political force they don’t need to worry about.
You’re just a useful idiot, and in your strategic blindness and propensity for betrayal, worthless in the fight against the left.
You said above they have some good ideas, so fuck off and join them. Its where idiots like you have to be, for you are no real use elsewhere, and given that all you will ever do is split the side you’re on, you’re better off being in the left’s camp and weakening them.
So fuck off there and stop pretending to be some kind of right winger. You’re just a simple minded Marxist dupe.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:15 pm
Anarchy is a form of freedom, but liberty is not anarchy.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:18 pm
Red, you seem oblivious to the simple fact that atheists believe there is no god. They are not attacking theists, they are supporting the truth. They may also, very rightly, attack the appalling history of the thing done in gods name.
Are you seriously suggesting people should accept lies as truth and ignore wrong doing so as not to appear bigoted ?
If so, I think we can safely dismiss your views as those of a fanatic with no morality.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:21 pm
Greetings. It seems to me it is the identification with Maori that causes many people their problems. My nationality is NZ, of British descent. One g-g-grandparent from Scotland, one from the Channel Islands, the rest from England. I have lived in the UK. I do not identify with the Scots at all. But make it worth my while financially I’ll put on a kilt, play curling and dance the highland fling.
What I am is a human being, a person. I have tried to be an independent, thinking and useful member of society. I really don’t see calling up my tribes make one whit of difference to my position in society, any more than a general indifference to things Scottish explains my circumstances.
In short, thinking one was “Maori” in the past when one is possibly no more “Maori” now than I am “Scottish” is unhelpful to the individual, who should be trying to be a person living in the present. I would appreciate your comments.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:21 pm
Kea, fuck off. I am not interested.
Your propensity to misrepresent what is said is so great it is hopeless trying to have a dialogue with you.
(Leaving aside you paper thin conceptions of Christianity and politics in general. )
Like FOX news is right wing.
FFS..
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:31 pm
Red, try reading what is written and not ranting off a prerecorded brain fart the moment you see something you don’t like.
I said Fox is portrayed as right wing, which it is.
Accepting lies about their being a god does not make you right wing. It just makes you wrong. Attacking homos (who may be right wing themselves) has nothing at all to do with political systems and everything to do with mposing your will on others. A typical lefty trait, if you must view it in those terms.
You are sounding more and more like a lightweight. How about a few comments with some substance.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:36 pm
Kea and Red accusing each other of ranting, misrepresenting and being hopeless to have dialogue with is kinda cute.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:44 pm
Northland Wahine is right, and anyway Christians, or my sort anyway would do something similar and it makes sense to do it
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:44 pm
You fucking idiot anti-christian bigots, with your set of crazed misconceptions, obsessively spend as much or more time on this blog attacking Christians as you do the left.
Which is just what the left want you to do, for its a state of affairs that has brought them victory in election after election, and granted them the power they seek above all else, and the power they use to press home their advantage and further their agenda.
Let’s for one minute accept that there is some basis to your insane fixation, and that the Christians do represent some kind of minuscule threat to your freedom. How does that measure up to the real threat of the left, and the fact that your insane bigotry and obsession has handed them power time and time again?
It doesn’t. All you are doing is weakening the opposition to the left, and playing into the hands of the left.
The problem is you’ll never listen to reason on this because you’ve quite clearly been brainwashed beyond help. You’ll just go on and on with your obsessive shit and the Marxists love it because they know its one of the key things that brings them power in this country and the rest of the west.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:56 pm
Doc, how I see myself makes a difference to me.
Some New Zealanders on face value, see me as Maori, others see me as Pakeha. I speak English yet very little Maori. I choose to identify myself as Maori because in my own past, my being Maori was seen in a negative light by some of my teachers and by many of my care givers ( I was fostered as a child). This led me to focus on the positive things about being Maori, to me.
There is a warm glow of family, of belonging with my Maori whanau. When I return to my tribal land, I feel I am, at home. I’m not sure how to describe that feeling. I have no doubt it makes sense to some, as I type it doesn’t seem logical to me. But it is what it is to me.
I live and work in South Auckland. Nice house, nice car. All the electronic gadgetry I can want or afford. I like these things. A lot! But if someone was to define who I was, I would rather be defined by the above and not the latter.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 12:59 pm
It’s easier for him to adopt a binary model when shouldering the burden of solving life’s complexities for us all.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 1:06 pm
Yes it does. Fortunately for believers in anything ranging from homeopathy to catholicism, our liberal culture affords them the liberty to practice their respective superstitions – provided they comply with secular law.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 1:24 pm
Red, once again we hear a simplistic rant that wrongly assumes Christians are right wing. In reality Christians occupy a variety of places in the political spectrum. Many are vocally left wing and believe this is the correct caring Christian position to take on many issues.
In your heated comment you accuse those who defend truth of “insanity”. What is the alternative in your view ? I can not speak for other atheists, but I do not know of many who consider Christians much of a threat now days. Where do you get these fantastic ideas ?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 1:30 pm
So you look (a bit) Maori to some people. We all feel at home when we return to an old stamping ground and family. I don’t think there’s anything special about this. Do you live in Otara-Mangere or Pakuranga-Howick?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 1:31 pm
Great contributions NW.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 1:41 pm
Relax guys, who cares if there are Christians, people with christian views or non religious bashing each other, we all dip our toes in the water, it’s online, who cares. Watch this, it will shock a few but the man has a point when it comes to human perception, it was recently a hot topic on their site as the pro evidence pro constants subscribers hit out over the site allowing the video to be aired.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO4-9l8IWFQ
I don’t subscribe to his views but it is still interesting at how he reveals that gravity changes.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 1:43 pm
Doc, I was born in Auckland. The far north isn’t my stomping ground, central Auckland was as a child, and I moved South in my late teens when I married. My grown sons are also born and breed in South Auckland, in Clendon and they too refer to the far north as “home”. Yeah, it’s what I taught them as children and it’s what they choose to teach their children now. Their father pakeha and he chooses not to actively participate in their adult lives so his contribution to their attitudes is minimal. His loss…
I have plenty of family in Auckland, and see different ones on an irregular basis. But for whatever reason, the connection is stronger when we are at home.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 2:08 pm
@Northland Wahine. You call yourself “Northland Maori woman”, which of course is just a name, but it gives clue to what you feel.
I don’t see anything special about your having some Maori ancestry, any more than there is about my Scottish ancestry, which in fact originated in the Low Countries anyway. We all came from somewhere, bacteria, actually.
You were not born and raised in the North, so isn’t the attachment more romantic the real, rather like mine to England? Nothing especially Maori about it.
You are clearly a good and clever person who “deserved” to have been admired and cherished by a similar man. Or perhaps he doesn’t agree with the “Maori” aspect? Thanks for talking with me.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 2:19 pm
Doc, you’re welcome.
The attachment maybe romantic to you ( no not a dig) but its very real to me. Being Maori, for me, isn’t where I reside, or how fair my skin is or isn’t. It isn’t about whether or not I can converse fluently in Maori. And you’re right, it doesn’t make me special.
It does make me, uniquely me.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 2:30 pm
“……Accepting lies about their being a god does not make you right wing. It just makes you wrong. Attacking homos (who may be right wing themselves) has nothing at all to do with political systems and everything to do with mposing your will on others. A typical lefty trait, if you must view it in those terms. …..You are sounding more and more like a lightweight. How about a few comments with some substance….”
You are talking some shit today Kea.
[1] We teach children to pray – not to gather facts to support the existance of God.
Which makes us right as it’s a ‘belief’.
[2] Marriage is being defined down to the level of essentially non-procreative homosexual emotional relationships!
That is nearly the complete opposite of what Marriage CURRENTLY is : essentially procreative hetrosexual relationships which secure the emotional bonds between natural mothers, fathers and children.
It’s the 4%ers who are imposing their will on others Kea.
[3] Red’s comments do have substance – the truthful reality of the West and what it mostly now is – Marxist.
Telling a group or individual, that standing at the top of the cliff is dangerous – is NOT hate speech, or being ‘liteweight’!
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:05 pm
Andrei (for example) is one of the best warriors against the left I have observed, and yet you fucking obsessive insane atheists spend so much more time beating up on Andrei for his faith than you do attacking the left. Thereby reducing our effectiveness and white anting our forces and diluting our strength.
You wonder why we can’t make headway against the left? Why they control our social and political condition and our culture to an almost totalitarian extent? Without even needing to fire a shot?
Think about it. Think about how they did it and then ask yourself whether your insane distraction with atheism has contributed in any way to the left’s overall ascendancy.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:05 pm
You have pointed out that your belief is based on faith and not on facts. We agree on that much. I am curious (given the absence of facts) what informs your belief and supports your claim of being right ?
No one is proposing to change the nature of your marriage. Christians can maintain their beliefs and marriage traditions and good on them. I am an atheist and liberal on the gay issue, but my personal values are very close to the Christian ones. I just do not expect central government to impose my views on others.
You must be new here if you think I defend Marxist thought. DPF gave me 50 integrity merit points for being luke warm about his commie mates (after that sack of shit RRM tricked DPF into thinking I said something I did not. Most decent folk simply have a shower after reading RRM’s posturing bullshit)
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:08 pm
I agree with him that the scientific model of reality is at odds with consciousness. Another model is that the fundamental building blocks of reality are themselves aspects of consciousness. This model predicts that life is abundant in the universe and that what seems strange to us is actually the norm. An example of high strangeness reality is the hollow earth theory, which is that over time our planet has expanded like a balloon. Evidence for this includes continental drift, longitudinal expansion cracks in the continental rifts, Admiral Byrd’s story, and the stories of Nazi New Schwabenland.
Vote:
March 10th, 2013 at 3:11 pm
Believe in God and defeat the left?
That’s a bit ironic, Christ would likely have been a leftie if the political polarities had been invented by then.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:15 pm
Speak for yourself Red.
It is you and your ilk who race around frantically lashing out at gays and atheists, while feminist socialists take over right under your nose. What you have totally missed in your obsession with homos, is that most of the socialist doctrine forced on us has been done by WOMEN. Even the over hyped gay issue is driven by WOMEN. Not by male poofters. Women have been at the fore of the socialist movement here and have done more damage than any other group. They are natural born socialists. But you are too gutless and silly to lash out at them and pick on the tiny percentage of the population who are fags.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:16 pm
JC seemed to be a bit against small businesses and money men. He seemed to be tolerant of at least one prostitute. He was a real socialist when it came to feeding people and taking responsibility for their health and wellbeing. He’d have been a bit radical for the conservatives.
And his parents wouldn’t have fitted the mum and dad married with their own kids ideal.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:19 pm
HITLER: THE ATHEIST (Quiz Show)
Test your recent history knowledge:
Vote:
March 10th, 2013 at 3:25 pm
Kea#
Your missing the point,
Not all relationships are the same. Fact.
The current definition of Marriage is being turned into it’s near opposite meaning – so that others can be ‘labeled’ the same.
It’s not ‘equality’ or a ‘victory’ for the gays – but more like embarrasment.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:28 pm
“….Even the over hyped gay issue is driven by WOMEN….’
Homosexuality in the west today is really just a by-product that was spat out by the feminists while they munched their way through the fabric of society!
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:29 pm
No it’s not, it’s getting a slight change to be slightly more universal. It will mean exactly the same to me.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:34 pm
Harriet, I agree that all relationships are not the same. No problem there and I encourage you to maintain your values.
What I do not agree with is the State defining our relationships for us. I support traditional marriage, be it Christian or otherwise. But it must be based on our values and not those imposed by the State.
Your really do not want government having any view on this issue. Imagine what Klark would have done by now if we were still under her man hating socialist regime. It would not be good for white, straight, males or traditional marriage.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:35 pm
Kea,
What women? Socialism certainly co-opts women and tries to turn them into quasi-men, however, given the long history of socialism, and communism, you’ll find that most of the driving force for it has been from men, not women. Even in NZ, most of our law makers are men – it’s not women putting through the socialist laws, they just don’t have the numbers to do so by themselves.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:38 pm
“….Speak for yourself Red….”
I will instead.
Redbaiter is infact, one of the TRUE PROGRESSIVES on KB !
The true progressive is one who first see’s that the West is heading down the wrong path and is the first to turn around and take another direction!
Andrei and myself are other examples of true progressives.
You’re a sheep Kea…heading towards that cliff..you call those who point out that you are in danger – ‘bigots’.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:39 pm
True. The days of feminists being about equality are way way way behind us. The agenda now is the deconstruction of our society and the imposition of socialism. It is for that reason I have considerable patience with the anti gay marriage folk, though I do not oppose gay marriage myself.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:39 pm
Pete George,
No way would Our Lord have been a leftie. Or even a rightie. As God, He had a completely different purpose on earth than politics, which He leaves up to us.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:41 pm
“Christ would likely have been a leftie if the political polarities had been invented by then.”
Hackneyed comment of the day.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:42 pm
“Seemed” is the operative word here. He spoke quite highly of Abraham, who, according to the Hebrew texts was a very wealthy man. While the moneychangers in the temple did get a hammering, a closer inspection of of the older text referred to by the gospels indicates that violence was the issue rather than money. Love of money being the root of all evil is a Pauline doctrine which is contracted by Isaiah.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:43 pm
“….It is for that reason I have considerable patience with the anti gay marriage folk, though I do not oppose gay marriage myself….”
Boy, now your sitting on the fence like PG.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:46 pm
Oh that hurt Harriet !!!
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:53 pm
@Lucia Maria
By “God”, do you mean:
a) The group of beings, called “God”, who created man(kind), male and female, in their own image (Genesis 1:26).
Vote:b) The deity of Abraham who said “I am one” (Deuteronomy 6:4)
c) The construct invented by monotheistic Christianity to explain Stephen’s vision of the son of man at the right hand of deity.
March 10th, 2013 at 3:55 pm
“Christ would likely have been a leftie if the political polarities had been invented by then.”
By its ‘thou shalt no steal’ commandment Yahweh absolutely prohibited redistribution of wealth.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 3:55 pm
I wouldn’t call it sitting on the fence so much as being condescending.
As for the trope about “Jesus seeming like a bit of a lefty” – that is a misconception dilettantes are quite prone to. Usually it arises out of somebody taking a passing familiarity with religion and, rather than putting any real study or thought into the matter, simply draw their own trite conclusions. Interestingly enough, they will quite often quite happily pontificate to actual members of the religion as to what their religion actually teaches.
Do you know who these people remind me of? Biblical literalists. They are the obverse side of the same coin in that they are content to simply project their own views onto the the readings of an ancient text and just assume they are correct.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 4:00 pm
“…..[Marriage]….No it’s not, it’s getting a slight change to be slightly more universal. It will mean exactly the same to me….”
Slight change?
How fucken dumb are you Pete – going from scientific ‘matter’[procreation] to an ‘emotion’[childless gay relationships] is ‘slight change’?
And don’t insult infertile couples with a stupid reply Pete – or insult me with statistical abberations[a handful of hetro's who don't procreate.]
“….slightly more universal….” Then why not ‘fully universal’? what’s wrong with polygamists – don’t you have ‘feelings’ for their ‘emotions’ Pete? ….and they procreate!
It will “still mean the same to you” won’t it Pete if polygamists get Married!
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 4:04 pm
Jesus told us that we personally, as individuals, need to help others less fortunate than ourselves – he did not teach that we should force others to do the same via taxation and BIG GOVERNMENT
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 4:07 pm
While the moneychangers in the temple did get a hammering
Just out of interest UT, the reason that happened was because in those days a sacrifice offering was required. Pharisees being pharisees had decided that burnt offerings like the odd pigeon caught in the field wasn’t acceptable anymore. No. A shekel was the required offering and nothing else was acceptable. Therefore a demand was created for people at the Temple who exchanged goods etc for shekels, since those weren’t that common amongst the poor. Who knows, the pharisees probably got a kickback as well. Anyway, guess what? The bloody moneychangers who incidentally were the first bankers, started ripping off the poor by demanding a great deal in exchange for their shekels, thus creating a barrier between the poor and God.
That’s why Jesus did it and it’s the only passage in the Bible where Jesus exhibited violence. I daresay if the
bankersmoneychangers had struck a reasonable exchange rate it wouldn’t have happened.By its ‘thou shalt no steal’ commandment Yahweh absolutely prohibited redistribution of wealth.
Crikey wat does your biblical ignorance know any bounds whatsoever? Duh. What about the parable where Jesus instructed the rich young man to give away all he owned and take up his cross and follow him? If that’s not “wealth redistribution” then what is?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 4:15 pm
To be fair – he never endorsed a particular economic program. Nowhere, however, did he propose that the state redistribute wealth through taxation. Certainly, moreover, free enterprise is compatible with Christianity – it gradually emerged in the context of Christendom, after all.
I personally support free enterprise because, A) I believe it is an efficient way of creating general prosperity and, B) I think it promotes moral behaviour – because you can only succeed in a market by serving others effectively (as opposed to other systems where you succeed by acquiring political power or through coercion.
However, it’s a matter of prudential judgment and other good Christians are free to disagree. Some are socialists. In the 19th and 20th Century, a lot of good Christian thinkers (Chesterton, Belloc, Doroth Day, Leo XIII) tried to articulate a theory of distributism that was neither capitalistic or socialistic. Again, it’s a matter for human judgment.
The only dumb thing to say is “I have read the sermon on the mount and so I think Jesus must be a Labour supporter.”
Either Christ was who he said he was or he wasn’t. If he was, then you shouldn’t put words in his mouth without serious study. If you think he wasn’t, then I have no idea why you would want to cite him for support for any particular political program you favour.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 4:21 pm
“…The only dumb thing to say is “I have read the sermon on the mount and so I think Jesus must be a Labour supporter.”..”
Well put Cato.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 4:22 pm
Reid,
In regards to the rich young man – that’s not wealth redistribution – the purpose of Our Lord was to give the rich young man what he asked for, and recognition in the young man’s case, that his wealth was holding him back.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 4:26 pm
Ugly Truth,
God is a Trinity. One God, three persons. Each person is also considered to be God.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 4:30 pm
Reid,
Yes, animal sacrifice was still practiced in the temple despite it having been deprecated by the prophets. The reason the moneychangers were thown out according to the gospels is:
And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Matthew 21:13
The “it is written” refers to Jeremiah 7:11, which speaks of robbers, not thieves.
Is this house, which is called by my name, become a den of robbers in your eyes? Behold, even I have seen [it], saith the YHWH.
Strong’s H6530 – pĕriyts
1) violent one, breaker
a) robber, murderer
Sacrifice is essential to the Christian interpretation, but is refuted time and time again by the prophets, for example…
But if ye had known what [this] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Vote:Matthew 12:7
March 10th, 2013 at 4:38 pm
Well, since that doesn’t describe (a) the “God” of Genesis 1:26 or (b) the singular deity of Abraham, the logical inference is that the answer to my question is:
c) The construct invented by monotheistic Christianity to explain Stephen’s vision of the son of man at the right hand of deity.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 4:42 pm
“while feminist socialists take over right under your nose.”
Wrong again.
http://truebluenz.com/?s=feminist
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 4:42 pm
If animal sacrifice makes a come back let me know. I’ve got paddocks full of the buggers & it could be a nice little earner.
Mates’ rates for all KB Godbotherers!
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 4:46 pm
I have read Letters Patent where the Queen referred to herself in the Majestic Plural. Yet, I am told that Queen Elizabeth is one person.
This has led me to believe that the British monarchy is a construct by constitutional scholars as a fiction of convenience.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 5:05 pm
The divine right of kings alluded to by the motto “Dieu et mon droit” doesn’t work for the house of Windsor because the description of the Anglican “God” in their articles of religion doesn’t match the description of deity found in the texts which describe the advent of that right.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 5:12 pm
Lucia my interpretation is that it wasn’t his wealth that was holding back the young man, it was his attitude toward it. I recognise wealth redistribution is a secondary interpretation of that parable but note that Jesus in Mat 19:21 does specifically tell him in the parable to give it to the poor and there is a thread of that spread throughout in particular the NT.
UT, the necessity of sacrifice was done away with only when Jesus died and the temple curtain was torn in half, symbolising the Holy of Holies was now open to all. But you did prompt me to do some research and the offering is explained in Exodus. So it wasn’t the pharisees who ordered it but God speaking to Moses. And it was half not a full sheckel. However this doesn’t change my main point which is why Jesus did it in the first place, and if the moneychangers weren’t ripping off the people via an unfair exchange rate, then why did He do it?
Exd 30:12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the LORD, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when [thou] numberest them.
Exd 30:13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel [is] twenty gerahs:) an half shekel [shall be] the offering of the LORD.
Exd 30:14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.
Exd 30:15 The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when [they] give an offering unto the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 5:36 pm
It is a large step from having faith in there being a God and thus having faith in God to accepting the bible as being a source of knowledge about God.
Faith in the bible being the word of God became (for some) faith in Jesus being the word of God in the flesh. He is praised for this by those who believe it is the word of God and not so by those who do not. The irony regarding this is that he would appear to have written not one word of it.
I suppose those amongst humanity who claim to have knowledge of God are those who build the religions that others who came after them have come to place their faith in. Moses, Jesus and Paul and Mohammed.
Moses exploited faith in a God (fear and obedience) that killed human life to establish a law of God for the covenant nation and then Christianity and Islam exploited that example to create terms and conditions for entry by the fearful and obedient into the kingdom of God after a mortal life comes to an end.
What some Christians fear most is an examination of their faith by who are not Christians – especially Catholics. Whereas other Christians welcome a debate about bible meaning.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:00 pm
The Trinity is a construct, partly based on logos, the idea of emanation from God also being God or belonging to God. Thus word of God proceeds from God and then word of God being with the church somehow binds the church to God – thus enabling the presence of the holy spirit with the church.
The concept was supposed to convince Greek philosphers as to the wisdom of the bible tradition, it was also useful to the church to claim a continuing authority on earth with them.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:00 pm
Ugly Truth,
In your search for trying to understand what God is and therefore erroneously deciding that the Trinity was invented, consider the beginning of the Gospel of John, what happened when Our Lord was baptised and what Our Lord said about the Father and how He would send an Advocate to the Apostles when He went back to the Father.
The Trinitarian explanation of God was not invented.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:10 pm
Indeed.
Jesus said to the disciples, “those who have seen me have seen the Father”.
“Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, `Show us the Father’? Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father in me?
In Hebrews, we have God calling his Son, ‘God’.
I know it’s a hard thing to get your head around. It’s a mystery and we’re not supposed to understand it completely.
Vote:There are places on the net where you can study and find out more about it.
March 10th, 2013 at 6:15 pm
The prototype is in Psalm 2, where the King is supposed to be seen as loyal as a son to God.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:20 pm
It is a large step from having faith in there being a God and thus having faith in God to accepting the bible as being a source of knowledge about God.
SPC you raise one of the most fundamental theological questions there are, about which reams have been written. Because of this very point my own personal preference is the King James, which I understand to be the most faithful English replication of the ancient Greek and Hebrew manuscripts.
While it’s said to be hard-going by some because of the archaic language, personally I’ve never found it thus and if others do find it so, I recommend prayer seeking clarity as a most effective way to penetrate it. Once you do penetrate it and just look straight through the words and enter the book, as you do with a novel, you will find the most magnificent profound poetic pithiness far exceeding any of that written by Shakespeare.
Sadly I haven’t yet found time in life to learn ancient Greek and Hebrew and I fear I’ll never be so inclined. It’s true this lack of effort on my part does mean I’ll forever rely on a potentially incorrect reading but this doesn’t matter to me. Why?
Because my religion doesn’t happen in a book, but in my heart.
As I’ve said many times before, the basis of my religion is my personal relationship with my God, my Creator. It doesn’t fundamentally reside in what my church tells me or even in what the Bible tells me although the lessons and teachings from both those and other sources all feed into the mix.
Many non-Christians seem to fail to appreciate this distinction. They seem to think that Christians regard the Bible like a math textbook, where the regression equations are black and white and if you don’t apply the right formula according to the text, you’ll never get the “right” answer: i.e. be a “good” Christian. But this misses a very important element of the Christian faith. Prayer.
Prayer is conversation with God and it’s both listening and speaking. Christian meditation for example, where no words are spoken not even in one’s own mind, is a very common Christian practice. It goes back to the silence, the nothingness, the place where the only thing in the world is God. You close your eyes and try to quiet the thoughts racing round in your head, it’s not easy. But that’s another form of what we do. And the objective of this is not to plaintively wail about our troubles and problems but to seek and be with God, to be with His wisdom, His mercy, His love, in the silence.
Just as reams have been written about the Bible and is it the true word of God so have reams been written about prayer. My point is, the Bible is not the only form of reference we Christians have and use and it’s a shame that many non-Christians appear to hallucinate that it is, for it means those non-Christians are fundamentally missing some very significant aspects of what it means, to be a Christian.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:21 pm
Yes, that’s what many Christians think. The rational view can be found by looking at the description of the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34, rather than relying on a purely doctrinal interpretation.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:28 pm
Reid, is not meditation and prayer only Christian in relationship to received bible and church religion? The same meditation occurs amongst Jews and Moslems. Somewhat so within Hinduism and Buddhism.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:29 pm
A little quote I read last night.
‘”Organised religion. ..a desease born of fear and a source of untold misery to the human race.
Science can help us to get over this craven fear in which mankind has lived for so many generations. Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look around for imaginery supports, no longet to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look at our own efforts here below to make this world a fit place to live in, instead of the sort of place that the churches in all these centuries made it.”
Bertrand Russell.
Not bad and a good start for debate
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:37 pm
Why is it Bible is accepted as truth and all the palaver that goes with it and Apollo is dismissed as a Greek myth.
Why is it that both the Greeks and the Romans had identical gods ( with different names) but they are just ignored by the Johnny come lately christians.
The greek gods rose up to Olympus just like jesus rose up, so why this superior attitude from the Christians
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:38 pm
Pauleastbay, it can be argued that once upon a time there were people who believed in a Creator God who thought that their God wanted them to survive natural disasters. Whereas otherwise in the world there were those who thought natural disasters were acts of god to kill them. This separated one people from the superstitions of the others. But of course contamination from the world around them then set in.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:41 pm
And Bertrand Russell (as illustrated by a famous debate) does not have anything to base his morality on other than “his feelings”.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:44 pm
Why is it Bible is accepted as truth and all the palaver that goes with it and Apollo is dismissed as a Greek myth.
Why is it that both the Greeks and the Romans had identical gods ( with different names) but they are just ignored by the Johnny come lately christians.
The greek gods rose up to Olympus just like jesus rose up, so why this superior attitude from the Christians
Pauleastbay, because the things that happen in the Bible are backed up by history. People experienced the miracles of God in the old and new testaments. The people and places really existed. The events really took place. The events in Greek and Roman myths may as well have taken place on Mars.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:47 pm
SPC
People have always believed in God(s) but why are the Christians so dismissive of any other story that different races believe in. At the end of the day most of it is about rules that make sense ( don’t murder each other, pretty basic sensible stuff)
I know if I lived a good life and stated on here that i am a follower of the greek gods and I believe that by following them is the one true religion the ” superior few” on here would be decrying me as a pagan and idolterator in no time flat. Look at the shit the muslims cop because some want to blow up planes. I defy anyone to show me that every muslim on the planet agrees with terrorisim, pure bollocks.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:51 pm
Fletch
Why does Russell need a ‘treaty’ to have sensible feelings.?
once again Fletch because , for what ever reason, you require a ‘religious constitution” to guide you through life not everyone does. But if you and i both live good lives and don’t fuck with our fellow man too much, what difference does it make where we get our good behaviour from. I personally don’t require an instrcution book to know its not cricket to shag my mates wife, but some do, but if niether of us do shag our mates wife , its a good result.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:53 pm
People experienced the miracles of God in the old and new testaments. The people and places really existed
and there I was thinking there was a basis happening for a decent argument. Upper cut to self
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:57 pm
Pauleastbay, the monotheist premise is that the concept of Creator God is the high god (as in lesser or lower gods were the creations of men) of henotheism. The criticism of this is that the claim of knowledge of the monetheist God reduces this faith into just another creation of man. This very point was conceded at the very beginning when those of Creator Godfaith were warned not to eat the apple/claim knowledge of God.
Grace of God, unmerited entry into the Kingdom of God after death is an attempt to return to the original Godfaith. Not by obedience to the knowledge of the law of the god created by man, but by God’s love for man.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 6:58 pm
Pauleastbay,
Weren’t you raised Catholic? Or have I got you confused with somebody else?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:01 pm
The rational view can be found by looking at the description of the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34, rather than relying on a purely doctrinal interpretation.
UT I don’t see a contradiction between what I said and that passage. Where do you see it?
Reid, is not meditation and prayer only Christian in relationship to received bible and church religion?
Yes it is SPC and thanks for giving me an opportunity to clarify because on re-reading my 6:20 it seems a bit like I was suggesting “what I think, goes” which I definitely don’t think. What I was meaning whether or not I clearly conveyed it, was that I use a range of sources to discern my path. If my path was always clear, laid out before me like a yellow-brick road, why it would all be simple. But it’s not simple, discernment is a critical aspect of religion and I use all my sources to discern my best current interpretation of the correct way, which I get wrong from time to time. Getting it wrong is what we call sin, and we’re all sinners, Christians and non-Christians. It’s part of the human condition. But just because I fall off the wagon from time to time or in my case, every single day, doesn’t mean I’m condemned, provided I’m serious about getting back on it and trying again and provided I’m serious about repenting: i.e. leaving my past sins behind me and not returning again and again to my own crapulence like a dog to its own vomit. That is how I see it, I can’t speak for any others but that is how I use the Bible, the teachings of my Church and Biblical scholars and prayer and everything else I use, in my way of faith. Weak though it may be.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:06 pm
SPC, while not pretending to know bugger all about monotheism other what i just skimmed on wiki, the point I’m trying to make is what difference does it make whether you are a christian, a jew, muslim or a pagan idol worshipper if we treat each other decently. Thats what Russell was driving at.
My basic understanding of buddhism is that you can do anything you like as long as what you do does not affect any thing else in a negative fashion. Personally I think that’s a bloody good way to live, impossible perhaps, but something to strive for and as humans if we looked inwards while working towards something like that rather than minding everyone elses business , the world may be a lot better
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:08 pm
Lucia, correct I was, but I’ve had lots of experiences to turn me away, in fact the Catholic church is presently one of the most flawed organisations on earth, correction, not an organization , one of the most flawed business’s on earth, the business model is nearly perfect but its run in a hugly corrupt way.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:09 pm
You said “… symbolising the Holy of Holies was now open to all”, but in the book of Jeremiah the parties to the covenant remain unchanged, i.e. the house of Israel & the house of Judah are not all people.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:10 pm
PEB, how come Russell as someone so brainy can at the same time miss the point so profoundly?
Hasn’t he understood that religion is not a scientific matter? It can’t be replicated in a lab, it’s not something physical, you can’t measure it, therefore all the scientific tools yet invented even today let alone when he wrote that, are inadequate. This is not a comment on religion because it exists, it’s a provable phenomena. It’s a comment rather on the inadequacy of science.
BTW, how do you explain the thousands of scientists who are religious?
Isn’t that a contradiction in terms?
in the book of Jeremiah the parties to the covenant remain unchanged, i.e. the house of Israel & the house of Judah are not all people
OT vs NT UT. NT opens the doors from the tribe of Israel to all the people of the world. OT was specifically directed toward the ancient tribe of Israel (who as a side issue not relevant but may as well mention, are not the current inhabitants of the State of Israel today).
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:12 pm
Pauleastbay,
Soooo…. based on your knowledge of Catholicism, you’d be able to answer most, if not all of the questions you raised with regards to the Greek gods, I presume? Or, to save time – is there a question you can’t actually answer yourself that you’d like answered?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:16 pm
Pauleastbay, before the birth of Yeshua/Jesus Jewish Rabbis had begun to sum up the law as doing no harm to others (moving to the realm of ethical behaviour as a code for Jews living around the world, rather than the former covenant nation law). The metaphor was standing on one leg to sum up the Torah law, then being told to use the other leg and do only good for others. Thus by using both legs, then being on the straight ahead or narrow path or way that Jesus spoke of. The Samaritans also kept the law, so the story of the Samaritan stopping to do good for a Jew by the road was an example of this occuring between peoples rather than just within one group tradition.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:16 pm
Hasn’t he understood that religion is not a scientific matter?
He doesn’t say it is, what he says is …Science can teach us, and I think our own hearts can teach us, no longer to look around for imaginery supports, no longer to invent allies in the sky, but rather to look at our own efforts here below to make this world a fit place to live in
thats easy to understand surely, we should be able to live decent lives without relying on myth and a instruction book that has caused millions and millions to suffer because of the zealots that follow this book and that science can help us do this
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:19 pm
SPC
But people were treating each other decently for thousands of years BC they did’nt need the christian instruction book to do this, why the superior attitude , why the condemnation of other belief systems by the Christians?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:23 pm
Reid, given the state of Israel does not include all Jews, of course the status/role of the state of Israel in religion is tenuous. But the book of Ezekiel does refer to those settling the former tribal areas and living there being seen as a new beginning for the tribes – and being seen as of those former tribes.
The inter-group problem is the difficulty for Jews/Christians/Moslems in seeing others as fellow humans of Godfaith in or of these tribes – more so given the relative difference in importance each group would place on such tribal identity.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:28 pm
I just noticed something. The two biggest topics on KB are about things that do not exist.
AGW & God.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:29 pm
Lucia
The only answer I would be interested in is (two actually) firstly, why Christians have this huge superiority thing over other religions when the bible ect is hugely based on the myths and the tales in the bible are common in other civilizations albeit under different names
the second one was what was the life changing event that made you revert to fundemental Catholisism
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:29 pm
Pauleastbay, religion is connected to nationalism. Nations oppressed other nations in demanding imperial tribute or war and captivity. The concept of one humanity before one God was supposed to bring peace and justice between the nations etc. Of course if there is more than one Godfaith, then the rivalry just goes global – Western Christendom vs caliphate.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:30 pm
I may need a hand Kea, I’m getting that ganged up on feeling
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:34 pm
” Christendom vs caliphate.”
SPC
There you presuming that its all Christian, there were shitloads of relgions BC, they just came and went just like business’s and the business metaphor is not too far off the mark,- about controlling a product i.e people.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:36 pm
No, the doors were already open. Rahab & her family joined them way back even before the advent of the first temple.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:43 pm
The root cause of all religion:
Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8d1ekj027ibd4ve/Faith%202.jpg
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:44 pm
why Christians have this huge superiority thing over other religions when the bible ect is hugely based on the myths and the tales in the bible are common in other civilizations albeit under different names
The Bible isn’t actually based on other myths, contrary to what the Zeitgeist movie tried to portray.
Vote:The film maker tried to create something to create a sensation, but that stuff has been debunked years ago.
March 10th, 2013 at 7:46 pm
Kea,
Vote:Regarding the “God does not exist” position, how is it that the earliest societies were adept in construction (eg Gobekli Tepe, Puma Punku)? They must have had help of some kind, and they wrote about deities.
March 10th, 2013 at 7:46 pm
Pauleastbay – I’ll rephrase my answer then, Christians saw their one Godfaith for all people as superceding the religions of the nations before Zion. The tactic struggled in the face of the emergence of a rival called Islam and the survival of Judaism and Hinduism and its offshoot Buddhism. Thus Western Christendom and the caliphate as the only two with (thwarted) global ambition.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:54 pm
SPC- Christianity had a 600 year jump on islam why did’nt it take hold in that time prior to Mohommad getting involved?
World domination, – again the business metaphor
Fletch- the Bible &; Koran have much in common for starters and there are numerous stories in the bible that go back to the myths Jonah is one, I can’t be bothered dragging the books out but the bible is not ‘the book’ ,at the very best its writers should have been sued for plagerisim on a grand scale. have a read of Robert graves The Greek Myths for starters
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 7:58 pm
And I wrote that god does not exist. Writing something does not make it real.
Being “adept at construction” does not prove the existence of god. I have worked on building sites and I can assure you, with some confidence, god was not helping. There are no unexplained engineering feats from ancient times, in spite of urban myths to the contrary. Even it there was, it does not prove a higher power was involved.
The choices are not: offer an explanation or admit god exits.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:10 pm
how is it that the earliest societies were adept in construction
because some poor bastard ,some where was told , “I want this sorted by next Thursday, so stop fucking around and get it done, I’ve raised the loan you build it”.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:13 pm
Pauleastbay, Christianity was not dominant in the West until the Roman state established the religion. Christianity also existed throughout the ME, possibly at pre Roman Empire adoption strength, but was superceded when Islam rose into political power and taxed non Moslems at a higher rate etc. The reason few Arabs in Arabia were Christian was probably because of the difficulty in sending missionaries into the desert where the tribes were. And otherwise the difficulty in converting these tribes enmass when only some of these people arrived at trade centres along the Red Sea etc, more so when there were strong Jewish communities in the area resistant to Christianity.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:15 pm
Hey, whatever happened to that under road dynamo that a kiwi developed to power individual houses?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:23 pm
Pauleastbay, good observation. It amuses me no end to be sitting here in 2013 watching people defend a desert cult from the other side of the world formed before NZ was even discovered by Maori/Vikings/Lizard People…
Do they not realise that people are just as believing in all the other gods that have been invented ? As for differences between the Koran & Bible, that is splitting hairs. The main difference is in how the books are followed. Our Muslim brothers are more inclined to actually follow the “word of God” while the slippery Christians will distort Gods clear words to suit the sensibilities of the society they live in. At times those sensibilities have extended to horrific torture and mutilation of non believers.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:26 pm
Not to mention one of the worst possible advocates for the teachings and philosphy of the person after whom the religion that Andrei asserts he follows was named. That of course makes him, like you, one of the biggest hypocrites here. Unfortunately, the binary thinking model with which you’re burdened, doesn’t allow you to see this.
A phoney Christian and a bare-faced insult to genuine Christians, whilst providing an easy target for those who enjjoy taking the piss. You are too stupid to realise that if Andrei, kowtow et al weren’t such out and out arseholes and gob-smacking hypocrites, the god-botherers wouldn’t attract anything like the the grief they get here.
Which leads into another point that someone has already made here today. WTF is the connection between right wing/left wing (to indulge in your facile nomenclature) and belief in G**? I mean really, just how fucking stupid are you?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:27 pm
What is your explanation for how a 131 metric tonne block of sandstone was transported over a distance of 10 miles to the top of a mountain in ancient times?
http://www.ancient-wisdom.co.uk/boliviapumapunka.htm
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:29 pm
SPC
:In the early seventh century AD, the prophet Mohammed ordered his faithful to respect all peoples who worshipped God according to their own sacred scriptures, as the Faithful themselves must obey the Koran which God had inspired him to write. This order ensured relegious liberty to Jews througout Islam: and to all Christians so long only as they made no attempt to convert Moslems to Christianity. On the otherhand, all people who relied merely on popular myths or unwritten doctrine were treated as infidels and invited to choose between conquest or conversion to Islam” The Bible in Europe. Essay by Robert Graves 1964.
So we see, there is no real difference between Christins and Moslems, the Crusades pretty much did the same thing but a lot more brutally.
were strong Jewish communities in the area resistant to Christianity who saw Christianity was just another fad and didn’t want a bar of it.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:31 pm
UglyTruth, the answer lies in engineering principles not in superstition.
Here is a retired construction worker moving stuff like that around, single handedly for fun.
Vote:
March 10th, 2013 at 8:36 pm
Kiss, Crue and Lizzy?
Vote:Dime I am seething with jealousy (Not to mention the knockshop tour afterwards…).
March 10th, 2013 at 8:36 pm
UglyTruth (288) Says:
March 10th, 2013 at 8:27 pm
I thought 400 tonnes was the heaviest to be transported in SA, Tihuanaco? How they floated that goes beyond any engineering technique using the knowledge of the day. My favourite is the unfinished stones of Baalbek, when you see the scale with a person standing on them, it boggles the mind.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:38 pm
This Blog is turning to shit.
Vote:General Debate is Generally Religious Debate and Global Warming Crap.
Same old, same old, same cork soakers pushing the same bullshit. Fucks sake dont you morons have a life?
Let’s see what happened when the Comp was off:
Pasifika.
Kumeu A & P
Bays run
And thats within 30km.
What did NZ do except whinge and moan on a Blog?
March 10th, 2013 at 8:48 pm
Lets talk sports then Steve.
Vote:Re the Auckland Blues- always enjoyable to see a team come crashing down to earth after hyping themselves off the planet (if you had listened to the chest beating and trash talking coming out of that camp the Super comp was done and dusted already)
Re the cricket- How the hell were that World class English batting line-up so freaking awful on that first day?
March 10th, 2013 at 8:53 pm
Here’s a great animated short.
Vote:
March 10th, 2013 at 8:54 pm
Pity you weren’t a sportsman Longknives, you’d possibly talk less crap, but I doubt it.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:56 pm
Nice to see the Blues open up the contest with the Crusaders and Hurricanes for the second New Zealand team spot in the top 6. Now only the Highlanders are out of it – too weak in the loose forwards.
The Reds and Brumbies have already sorted it over the Tasman. The Sharks/Stormers/Bulls as usual over there for their two spots.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 8:57 pm
Nostalgia-
Blues got beat after talking themselves up all week (Fact)
England were dreadful on the first day of the Test (Fact)
How am I talking crap?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:03 pm
So grumpy Steve (North Shore) considers religion and AGW boring but thinks cricket and a bunch of guys groping each other in a paddock is the business. I guess that is how they roll on the N Shore
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:06 pm
So, by buying the energy companies shares, would we be retarding new power tech from being used or being set up here if there was tech that was made available that was cheap but most importantly available to the individual? Do you see what i mean?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:08 pm
Cricket is the greatest game on God’s (or Apollos, or whoever’s..) Great Earth.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:10 pm
Kea, what engineering principles were applied to move a 131 tonne block over uneven terrain up a mountain? Your video shows a guy moving a 1 tonne block over a smooth flat surface, How would you even quarry a block of sandstone measuring in excess of 5 by 7 by 1 meters?
Azeraph, I read that the 400 tonne figure was debunked for Puma Punka. But I’ve yet to read any explanation for moving stone blocks on this scale that is consistent with the official story about technology in history. The simplest explanation is that they had help from an advanced culture, and the most commonly described advanced culture in historical texts is a group of deities or divine beings.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:18 pm
UglyTruth, I already gave you the answer. It is up to you to look for the details.
There is no excuse for a someone with an internet connection, and interest in the topic, to not know the answers. But even if engineering could not provide answers as to how the stone was moved or quarried (it does) then it would in no way provide evidence of god or some other higher power.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:20 pm
Dusty Explains The Pyramids!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yzG5RP2HTQ
* Warning. This is funny
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:23 pm
Reid,
I agree with you there! The best explanation of this story that I have ever read is in Veritatis Splendor. It goes into a lot of detail, starting with section 6: CHAPTER I – “TEACHER, WHAT GOOD MUST I DO…? ” (Mt 19:16) – Christ and the answer to the question about morality.
I wouldn’t call it wealth redistribution – more like charity to those that have less that you.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:26 pm
UglyTruth (289) Says:
March 10th, 2013 at 9:10 pm
Bugger! so it wasn’t 400 tonnes. There are the trithilon stones but 70′s alien nutters have sullied those stones mystery, some still believe they were part of an ancient landing pad. One only has to apply common logic to see through that farce. A space faring species needs a landing/launch pad? With today’s circumstantial evidence available debunks that idea. somehow ancient man shifted massive weight without radically changing the landscape, i don’t agree with what you stated but if it’s the only explanation available then it’s the only explanation available.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:27 pm
Azeraph, are you suggesting the government is selling shares in the SOE’s to reduce their risk of such rival power on the market or of obtaining consumer consent (those who own shares) to suppressing rival power supply tech?
The other investor unknown is when the smelter shuts down and all that extra supply comes onto the market.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:28 pm
Ugly Truth
Vote:The simplest explanation is that they had help from an advanced culture, and the most commonly described advanced culture in historical texts is a group of deities or divine beings.
Thats not the simplest explanation rather an explanation for the simple
March 10th, 2013 at 9:30 pm
Longknives, the press and the public (probably including myself) have been talking up the blues. Not the team, or if they were, now they know the fight they’re in.
As far as those visitors from the mother country go, they walked into a sucker punch because of observation of their own importance, then couldn’t adjust.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:35 pm
Kea (2,495) Says:
March 10th, 2013 at 9:20 pm
The history of the pyramids is well documented except for the valley temple and the Sphinx, that statue and temple display aging that goes beyond the official history.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:46 pm
Pauleastbay,
We believe our religion to be true. If something is true, it is vastly superior to that which is not true, surely?
As for common myths and tales in other civilisations, you mentioned the Koran in a comment to Fletch. Islam is a Catholic heresy, that’s why there are commonalities. Hilaire Belloc explains it in The great and enduring heresy of Mohammad, of which I give an excerpt in the link, and also give the link to the full chapter.
There are also prophesies in many different cultures of Our Lord’s coming. God made sure that His Son was pre-announced, and it wasn’t just to the Jews. Fulton Sheen, in his book on the Life of Christ, lists a number of various ancient writings in support of this idea. You’ve got to think, if God is real, if all of Christianity is actually true, then why wouldn’t He make sure that everyone expected Jesus to be born at some point?
I started blogging, which lead to research, which lead to re-examination of history, which lead to reading more and more about the Church in history and in current times, which lead to reading encyclicals, which eventually lead to realising the Church was really what she said she was. It was quite a shock when I got to this point. And my brother had been praying for me to revert back every night for years.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:48 pm
Indeed it is vastly superior and if you really believed that you would be an atheist.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:51 pm
SPC (2,428) Says:
March 10th, 2013 at 9:27 pm
Not rival power but common agreed upon money making to get in the way of future tech being made available to home owners, now, what if there was a tech available that could take home owners off the grid? People think power as a collective usage system, the grid but what if there came a time when people took themselves off the grid? Where would the market be for these companies that suddenly go bunk? Will we ourselves retard the market to keep these companies going because we have money riding on it? will we ourselves slow progress down here? It’s a future Q but has to be asked as technology tends to start out large and progresses down to the personal individual level. Any thoughts?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:52 pm
Those “visitors from the Mother Country” (A strange terminology!) adjusted pretty well when they smacked nearly 500 in the second innings. They also looked pretty damn good when they thrashed NZ in the One-Dayers.
Vote:I just find their First Innings meltdown bizarre (Indian Bookmaker ‘Bizarre’?)..
March 10th, 2013 at 9:53 pm
Kea,
I was an atheist for a while. It was temporarily freeing and empty at the same time. It didn’t answer the eternal questions of life and death and why, so my atheism was very short lived.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 9:56 pm
And re the Blues- I’m sorry but Ali ‘The Self-Professed Comedian’ Williams is an absolute tosser. Every time he is interviewed something obnoxious or mindblowingly arrogant comes out of his mouth. I look forward to the Blues floundering at the bottom of the table this year even more than I usually do..
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:00 pm
We believe our religion to be true. If something is true, it is vastly superior to that which is not true, surely?
you’re entitled to just like the Moslem and the Jew and the Buddhist, but just because you believe it doesn’t make it so. Thats where the arrogance of the Catholic church grates , there is no more proof that your belief system is true than the Moslem, the Jew or the Buddhist.
if all of Christianity is actually true, then why wouldn’t He make sure that everyone expected Jesus to be born at some point?
again there is no proof that christianity is true, its just you are a particular supporter of that team, nothing more, absolutely no different from a Man U supporter over a Man City supporter.
feel free to be a supporter but there are other teams out there to support and again there is nothing to indicate that your team is right.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:02 pm
Lucia-
Vote:I have never been an Atheist- Can’t stand those smug ‘know-it-all’ fuckers..
Perhaps my faith is stronger than yours?
March 10th, 2013 at 10:02 pm
Longknives
I thought he gave a great post match, he was annoyed and showed a bit of passion something they didn’t have last year. The only good thing was I was bloody glad the softball was on and didn’t spend $55 at the park
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:04 pm
This being the same Ali Williams who last year told media that Super Rugby didn’t mean anything to him? (When they were querying his rather dubious All Black selection)
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:05 pm
Lucia thanks for your Veritatus Splendour link, I shall review in detail when I have the time, most appreciated.
For those who posted/commented on the stones, you should google Coral Castle, if you want a real mystery on that.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:05 pm
Jesus does it cost $55 to go to the rugby?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:06 pm
Azeraph,
1. presumably the capital cost of the independent household supply would limit the uptake rate, slowly diminish existing providers
Vote:2. the capacity to store energy or the network capacity to interface with households supplying or downloading
March 10th, 2013 at 10:06 pm
The answer is that you have no clue how they did it, just like the idiot in the orange t-shirt has no clue. What this means is that the simplest explanation is they had help, and the most probable source of help was the advanced beings written about in ancient texts, who would be described as being gods.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:09 pm
It didn’t answer the eternal questions of life and death and why, so my atheism was very short lived.
That proves nothing except you’re fickle and have obviously spent far to much time worrying about the end of the movie rather than enjoying the show.
Heres the eternal answers – we are here for a very short time, live it as decently as you can while having as much fun as you can because you die at the end, I know thats a plot spoiler but thats what happens. No secret. Unfortunately there are those that have a really shitty time of it but thats another secret of life – it isn’t fair.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:09 pm
Bad luck with that longknives. I bet you needed a nappy change after seeing Ali collapse those rolling mauls and winning the ball, nothing like the tough stuff up front. I guess you could try ‘pick up sticks’ while wearing pilot goggles, flippers and a duck suit. That might settle your nervous condition.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:10 pm
What is the difference between the two, PaulEastBay, other than one supports your prejudice and the other doesn’t?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:11 pm
Jesus does it cost $55 to go to the rugby?
Yep, for the crusaders game a mate bought the tickets, I nearly fell out of the stand when I asked what I owed him, tests are way out of reach
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:12 pm
Reality.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:15 pm
What is the difference between the two, PaulEastBay
I don’t have a prejudice over this, its just you stagger me that when there is something you can’t understand it has to be a diety that caused it. There are lots of things I don’t understand and life is too short to worry about a lot of them but when something is important I try and find out logically not take the fat man track and go for ‘ it must be God becuase its over my head’
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:16 pm
Tell us more about these advanced beings? Where are they now ?
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:17 pm
I see all the soap boxes are in full use, that ought to be a help to somebody lonely.
Vote:Lonely folks these days are most probably by themselves. I don’t have proof of that, but I’ve seen turtle shells belonging to missing turtles and that could mean something.
March 10th, 2013 at 10:18 pm
“Bad luck with that longknives. I bet you needed a nappy change after seeing Ali collapse those rolling mauls and winning the ball, nothing like the tough stuff up front.”
You are aware that the allegedly ‘invincible’ Blues got beat aren’t you?
“I guess you could try ‘pick up sticks’ while wearing pilot goggles, flippers and a duck suit. ”
Eh??
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:21 pm
Nostalgia
here you are
David Bain is the guiltiest motherfucker who has ever appeared before a New Zealand Court.
Away ya go
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:21 pm
The fact that you think that tells me that you didn’t understand what I posted.
Keeping as much distance as possible between themselves and the idiots, I expect.
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:22 pm
I see you are still missing phil longknives, try a message on a ‘lonely hearts club board.’
Vote:March 10th, 2013 at 10:39 pm
If it were so simple pauleb, yet as you may know that case has since taken more worse turns for the Crown.
Vote:I liked your reply earlier about the reason for tapu after drownings or shark attacks, yet, most liberally – they are the power of who places or removes them, and who is afraid or respectful of what they may, or may not bring.
March 10th, 2013 at 10:57 pm
Longknives,
Perhaps it is.
Pauleastbay,
I was in my early 20′s and living a life of sin, so rejection of God was like a rejection of conscience. Something that had been brewing for years, when finally I made the decision. The thing that really struck me about that moment of rejecting God and becoming an atheist (for a while) was that is really was like God withdrew and left me alone. Totally alone.
Reid, you’re welcome. I love Veritatis Splendor. It is truly amazing.
Vote:March 11th, 2013 at 12:18 am
Relax guys, we all know we are not alone in this part of the universe and that why they are not interested in showing themselves is quite obvious, there is nothing here they need. There’s no resources that they can’t get elsewhere for next to nothing, why bother with having to deal with the pinkies, why not just observe and see how things turn out. Earth, the big blue nature reserve.
We have nothing they need, if the planet did, then it was taken a long time ago, probably before us but then an advanced civilization wouldn’t need any raw material from a planet like ours would they? We’re talking about material creation and if you can get the raw from mining an asteroid belt or plasma then this planet has nothing at all.
There is speculation that our high level of storm activity is a draw card for topping up energy supplies but then our storms could be there version of a natural car wash.
Vote:March 11th, 2013 at 6:39 am
A wonderful family: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2290803/My-little-brother-Barack-Obama-Hes-12-wives-accused-o-beating-wants-President-Kenya–Meet-Obamas-VERY-outspoken-sibling.html
Vote:March 11th, 2013 at 8:14 pm
Lucia Maria (1,309)
March 10th, 2013 at 10:57 pm
There is no God. Only Allah.
Vote: