Antisemitism rising in Hungary

May 6th, 2013 at 1:00 pm by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

Tiszavasvari is the stronghold of the Jobbik Party which is causing Hungarian Jews to fear for the future. …

Yet gypsies are not the only bogeymen Jobbik has in its sights, as a sign on the green opposite the mayoralty building suggests. In Hungarian and Persian it proudly announces that Tiszavasvari is twinned with Ardabil, a town in Iran.

There is no obvious reason why a drab rust-belt town in ’s former mining area should seek links to a city in a hardline Islamic Republic 3220km away. The real purpose is to show their mutual loathing of Israel. …

“You can see Jobbik’s true nature through this,” said Peter Feldmajer, the president of the Federation of Hungarian Jewish Communities, which represents an estimated 100,000 Hungarian Jews, nearly 90 per cent of whom still refuse to disclose their religion publicly. “They hate the Jewish people, and so does the Iranian Government.”

How sad that 90% of Jews have to hide their religion.

But as the global banking crisis hit Hungary hard, leaving more than one in 10 jobless, Jobbik revived a folk devil – the wealthy, all-controlling Jews, who were traditionally influential in the finance world.

Jewish community leaders have been attacked in the street and cemeteries desecrated. As well as rallies, far-right biker gangs have held ugly demonstrations known as “Step on the Gas” days. Gyongyosi was castigated recently for saying that a “security” register should be created of Hungarian MPs and civil servants who were of “Jewish origin”.

I find an MP calling for a Jewish register chilling. We have seen this happen before. This is one of the reasons why I support Israel as a safe country for Jews – the history of persecution in Europe was not just about the Holocaust.

Jobbik are vigorously anti-globalisation being populist and nationalist. They rail against “Israeli businessmen of buying up property in the country wholescale.”

The Jobbik candidate for President of Hungary has made the following statements:

  • I would be glad if those who call themselves proud Hungarian Jews would go and play with their own little circumcised pricks instead of slurring me
  • “advised” the “liberal-bolshevik zionists” to “start thinking of where to flee and where to hide” in a 2008 speech
  • The only way to talk to people like you is by assuming the style of Hamas. I wish all of you lice-infested, dirty murderers will receive Hamas’ ‘kisses

Jobbik are somewhere between neo-Nazis and actual Nazis. They are now the third most popular party in Hungary.

In 1938 the Hungarian Government banned Jews from government employment and from editing newspapers.No private employer could have more than 12% Jewish employees. Most Jews lost the right to vote. In 1941 Jews were banned from marrying non-Jews. Note Germany did not invade Hungary until 1944.

Winston Churchill in 1944 said:

 “There is no doubt that this persecution of Jews in Hungary and their expulsion from enemy territory is probably the greatest and most horrible crime ever committed in the whole history of the world….”

Never Again.

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67 Responses to “Antisemitism rising in Hungary”

  1. rouppe (983 comments) says:

    Remember the Electoral Finance Act that Helen Clark and Labour brought in?

    You had to register with the state if you wanted to spend more than $1,000 criticising an MP. For amounts under that you had to disclose your name and address on any placard or other material doing the same thing.

    From my perspective, pretty much the same thing the Jobbik Party is saying

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  2. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    “Antisemitism rising in Hungary”… anti Muslim rising every where else, including all over Kiwiblog !

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  3. The Scorned (719 comments) says:

    Shades of that sort of thinking here re Asians and investing and farms…..

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  4. Redbaiter (10,398 comments) says:

    I couldn’t care less if Asians want to buy farms.

    I do not like the NZ government dealing with Communist Generals who rule by terror and the gun.

    The Scorned in spite of his apparent support for Jews, would have been a Hitler collaborator in the time of WWII

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  5. Bob R (1,420 comments) says:

    ***Jobbik are vigorously anti-globalisation being populist and nationalist.***

    Unfortunately, multiculturalism and non-european immigration isn’t necessarily an answer to anti-semitism. The rise in anti-semitic violence in Europe is due to increased immigration from Islamic countries.

    “Former Dutch EU commissioner says “recognizable” Jews are no longer safe in Netherlands due to Muslim anti-Semitism. ”

    http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/I-see-no-future-for-Jews-in-the-Netherlands

    “”I never thought I would see this hatred again in my lifetime, not in Sweden anyway,” Mrs Popinski told The Sunday Telegraph.

    “This new hatred comes from Muslim immigrants. The Jewish people are afraid now.” …

    With its young people planning new lives elsewhere, the remaining Jewish households, many of whom are made up of Holocaust survivors and their descendants, fear they will soon be gone altogether. Mrs Popinski, an 86-year-old widow, said she has even encountered hostility when invited to talk about the Holocaust in schools.

    “Muslim schoolchildren often ignore me now when I talk about my experiences in the camps,” she said. “It is because of what their parents tell them about Jews. The hatreds of the Middle East have come to Malmo. Schools in Muslim areas of the city simply won’t invite Holocaust survivors to speak any more.”

    Hate crimes, mainly directed against Jews, doubled last year with Malmo’s police recording 79 incidents and admitting that far more probably went unreported. As of yet, no direct attacks on people have been recorded but many Jews believe it is only a matter of time in the current climate.”

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/sweden/7278532/Jews-leave-Swedish-city-after-sharp-rise-in-anti-Semitic-hate-crimes.html

    http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/127076/the-very-real-jewish-exodus-from-france

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  6. Harriet (5,200 comments) says:

    “…..How sad that 90% of Jews have to hide their religion….”

    It’s much like that for Christians in NZ – as people use them as the scapegoats for the deaths of gays!

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  7. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Here is some recent stuff done to very liberal Muslims. Have a quick look at the photos and tell me what is reminds you of …

    http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.co.nz/2011/01/neutrality-and-absence-of-reckoning.html

    [On 31 May 1992, the Bosnian Serb authorities in Prijedor, a town in north western Bosnia and Herzegovina, issued a decree for all non-Serbs to mark their houses with white flags or sheets and to wear a white armband if they were to leave their houses. This was the first day of a campaign of extermination that resulted in executions, concentration camps, mass rapes and the ultimate removal of more than 94% of Bosnian Bosniaks and Bosnian Croats from the territory of the Prijedor municipality.]

    This manufactured outrage over how hard the Jews have it is becoming a bit tiresome.

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  8. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    I read somewhere an opinion that but for Hitler’s antisemitism, Germany would have probably had the V2 ballistic missile operational with some kind of nuclear warhead on it in the late 1930s.

    Antisemitism isn’t just bad for your international relations, it’s bad for business too. Don’t do it Hungary! :-P learn from other people’s mistakes.

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  9. toms (209 comments) says:

    The Hungarian right were on the Hitlerites side in WW2 remember. Then Uncle Joe shot them all, and that put an end to all that nonsense.

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  10. Bob R (1,420 comments) says:

    ***Shades of that sort of thinking here re Asians and investing and farms…..***

    The Scorned,

    Not really. Most populations have an aversion to colonisation of their resources. It’s human nature. Also, look up the rules on overseas investment in Israel sometime. They sensibly look after their own voters interests – it’s normal for other countries to do the same.

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  11. Bob R (1,420 comments) says:

    @ RRM,

    That is probably true. I think economist Thilo Sarrazin, who created a stir by writing a best selling book “Germany Abolishes Itself about Germany importing an underclass, pointed out that Germany lost a vast amount of intellectual talent.

    btw. There’s an interesting paper on the relatively high level of cognitive ability in the Ashkenazi jewish people.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16867211

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  12. simonway (387 comments) says:

    What a pity Hungary’s socialist government fell two and a half decades ago. They wouldn’t have put up with this. When ex-Nazis attempted a putsch in 1956, it was speedily put down (with the assistance of the Soviet Union, of course). The collapse of the socialist countries is what paved the way for the recent surges in popularity for neo-fascist movements across much of Eastern Europe.

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  13. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    “btw. There’s an interesting paper on the relatively high level of cognitive ability in the Ashkenazi jewish people.”

    Bob R, interesting. Are there any other traits you attribute to “race” or just this one ?

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  14. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    I know you guys suspend your concern for your fellow man if they are Muslims, so I thought this may interest you more.

    “Genocide: Jews and Bosnian Muslims Wore White Armbands”

    http://bosniakandjewishfriendship.wordpress.com/2012/05/25/genocide-jews-and-bosnian-muslim-wore-white-armbands/

    but not this so much: http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.co.nz/2011/01/neutrality-and-absence-of-reckoning.html

    A few dead Jews is so much sadder don’t you think ? Just like the 70 million non Jews who died in WWII was not so bad as the 6 million Jews who perished. Call me a softy but I think it is ALL fucked up regardless of religion/race.

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  15. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    It is on the rise everywhere where the islamic population is growing. Awhile back , there was an article re jewish people no longer being able to get jobs in European Universities.

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  16. Lance (2,713 comments) says:

    Yet another tiresome thread jack by Kea.

    Its all relative according to Kea

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  17. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    From my perspective, pretty much the same thing the Jobbik Party is saying

    It’s much like that for Christians in NZ – as people use them as the scapegoats for the deaths of gays!

    Contemptuous pieces of shit the pair of you.

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  18. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    .

    The Gaško list reports details on 137 trains, when we include the two trains reported on 2nd May in the Auschwitz Chronicle1) and in Jalkut Moreshet2) this makes 139 trains. These brought to the killing ground at Auschwitz 402,117 people according to the information on the 139 trains. Leo Glaser did not record the number arriving, that was not his business at the arrival ramp. His duty was to provide prison clothing for those who passed the selection and were admitted to the camp. We have however the reports from Ferenczy and from Vesenmayer in Table 19.1, see The Politics of Genocide by Randolph L. Braham3) that the total deportation figures are 434,351 and 437,402 for the respective sources. The above figures have been arranged to agree closely to Ferenczy’s figure of 434,351.

    http://www.zchor.org/hungaria.htm

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  19. Bob R (1,420 comments) says:

    @ Kea,

    Behavioural traits are partly heritable so their prevalence amongst different groups could potentially vary depending on their particular history. In that case the authors claim there was selection through the culture and occupational roles. But you could obviously get selection for other traits if they result in increased offspring in that environment. (eg. http://the10000yearexplosion.com/human-cultural-diversity/)

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  20. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Lance, so lets see what you are minimising : http://srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.co.nz/2011/01/neutrality-and-absence-of-reckoning.html

    The Jews have suffered terribly. That is a fact. But what they have suffered is no worse than many other groups. Both in the scale and the actual events. The main difference is Jewish persecution is more in the public consiousness.

    I am oppossed to all persecution, regardless of religion or race. People like Lance think it is ok to persecute Muslims because of their religion. It is people like Lance, born into different circumstances, who persecute Jews, not people like me.

    The justification that Muslims bring it on themselves by their behaviour does not stand scrutiny. The Muslims of the former Yugoslavia were very moderate, drank, smoked, partied and were mostly only Muslim in the cultural sense, just like many Jews and Catholics. Sarajevo was a vibrant tolerant city with the highest number of mixed marriages in Yugoslavia, and looked what happened !

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  21. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    “Bob R (1,006) Says:

    May 6th, 2013 at 2:09 pm
    @ Kea,

    Behavioural traits are partly heritable…”

    Bob R, yes but we are not allowed to say that, over concern some people might use it to justify persecution. That is not a position I support. I think the PC should be taken right out of science.

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  22. Bob R (1,420 comments) says:

    ***When ex-Nazis attempted a putsch in 1956, it was speedily put down (with the assistance of the Soviet Union, of course).***

    @ simonway,

    Did you used to work for Pravda?! The uprising started with students. And note the political oppression and economic misery that they were suffering because of Communist rule. Do you think there would be memorials in the US and apologies from Yeltsin & Gorbachev if it was some ex-n8zi putsch?

    “The Hungarian Communist Party set about to turn the economy into a state socialist one and as a part of this undertook radical nationalization based on the Soviet model. This however produced economic stagnation, lower standards of living and a deep malaise. Writers and journalists were the first to voice open criticism of the government and its policies, publishing critical articles in 1955.[11] By 22 October 1956, Technical University students had resurrected the banned MEFESZ student union,[12] and staged a demonstration on 23 October that set off a chain of events leading directly to the revolution…

    Hungary became a communist state under the severely authoritarian leadership of Mátyás Rákosi.[13] Under Rákosi’s reign, the Security Police (AVH) began a series of purges, first within the Communist Party to end opposition to Rákosi’s reign. The victims labeled as “Titoists,” “western agents,” or “Trotskyists” for as little a crime as spending time in the west to participate in the Spanish Civil War or for being Jewish (labeled as “Zionist agents”). In total, about half of all the middle and lower level party officials-at least 7,000 people-were purged.[14][15][16]…

    In the summer of 1956, relations between Hungary and the US began to improve. At that time, the US responded very favorably to Hungary’s overtures about a possible expansion of bilateral trade relations. Hungary’s desire for better relations was partly attributable to the country’s catastrophic economic situation. Before any results could be achieved, however, the pace of negotiations was slowed by the Hungarian Ministry of Internal Affairs, which feared that better relations with the West might weaken Communist rule in Hungary.[37]

    [edit] Social unrest buildsRákosi’s resignation in July 1956 emboldened students, writers and journalists to be more active and critical in politics. Students and journalists started a series of intellectual forums examining the problems facing Hungary. These forums, called Petőfi circles, became very popular and attracted thousands of participants.[38] On 6 October 1956, László Rajk, who had been executed by the Rákosi government, was reburied in a moving ceremony that strengthened the party opposition.[39]

    In the immediate aftermath, many thousands of Hungarians were arrested. Eventually, 26,000 of these were brought before the Hungarian courts, 22,000 were sentenced, 13,000 imprisoned, and several hundred executed. Hundreds were also deported to the Soviet Union, many without evidence. Approximately 200,000 fled Hungary as refugees.[155][156][157][158] Former Hungarian Foreign Minister Géza Jeszenszky estimated 350 were executed.[122] Sporadic armed resistance and strikes by workers’ councils continued until mid-1957, causing substantial economic disruption.[159]

    In December, 1991, the preamble of the treaties with the dismembered Soviet Union, under Mikhail Gorbachev, and Russia, represented by Boris Yeltsin, apologized officially for the 1956 Soviet actions in Hungary. This apology was repeated by Yeltsin in 1992 during a speech to the Hungarian parliament.[122]

    In the north west corner of MacArthur Park in Los Angeles, CA the Hungarian American community built a commemorative statue to honour the Hungarian freedom fighters. Built in the late 1960s the obelisk statue stands with an American eagle watching over the city of Los Angeles.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_Revolution_of_1956

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  23. TimG_Oz (866 comments) says:

    In unrelated news, Raoul Wallenberg was made an honorary citizen of Australia today. He is already an honorary citizen of the US, Canada, Hungary and Israel.

    http://www.jwire.com.au/news/raoul-wallenberg-an-honorary-australian/33842

    Raoul Wallenberg was a Swedish diplomat who led an extraordinary rescue operation in Hungary during World War II.

    He saved tens of thousands of Jews from the Holocaust by issuing protective passports and providing shelter in diplomatic buildings.

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  24. Harriet (5,200 comments) says:

    “….A few dead Jews is so much sadder don’t you think ? Just like the 70 million non Jews who died in WWII was not so bad as the 6 million Jews who perished. Call me a softy but I think it is ALL fucked up regardless of religion/race….”

    So now at least Kea you are on the record at KB admitting that 6 million Jews actually died! :cool:

    And what proportion of the Jews were soldiers Kea?

    And what proportion of the 70 million were soldiers Kea?

    And what countries did the Jews invade Kea?

    And what countries did the Allies invade Kea?

    And what contries did the Allies defend Kea?

    And what values did the Jews have Kea?

    And what values did the Allies have Kea?

    Well the fact is Kea that virtually all were killed with weapons – and those who did the killing hold the same values as your beloved NRA does Kea – the right to defend themselves and protect others from unlawful murderous acts.

    Yeah sure, it is a waste of lives I agree but, like the Iran position today, no government can say “we are not prepared to loose any lives at all in the defense of Israel or anyone else.”

    Are you French Kea? :cool:

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  25. Bob R (1,420 comments) says:

    ***And what values did the Allies have Kea?***

    Are you counting the Russians? Because their values weren’t so great either :)

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  26. Lance (2,713 comments) says:

    You are so full of shit Kea.

    Please cite where I have EVER said it is OK to persecute Muslims?

    Go ahead, make more shit up.

    If it escaped your vast intellect. I was pointing out that relativism is a shitty argument method.
    Deal with one topic at a time.

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  27. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Lance, my argument was not “relativism” as you attempt to portray it.

    It was not an argument, but a simple bland statement that it is not ok to treat any group this way.

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  28. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Harriet , I will reply to your little brain fart just as soon as I can figure out the point of it !

    Are you attempting to build a strawman by attributing views to me that I do not hold ?

    I am against ALL religious persecution. On what point do you not agree with that position ?

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  29. rouppe (983 comments) says:

    Contemptuous pieces of shit the pair of you.

    Really…. Why?

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  30. JMS (368 comments) says:

    toms (238) Says:
    May 6th, 2013 at 1:39 pm

    The Hungarian right were on the Hitlerites side in WW2 remember. Then Uncle Joe shot them all, and that put an end to all that nonsense.

    And replaced it with a new type of nonsense.

    simonway (287) Says:
    May 6th, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    What a pity Hungary’s socialist government fell two and a half decades ago. They wouldn’t have put up with this. When ex-Nazis attempted a putsch in 1956, it was speedily put down (with the assistance of the Soviet Union, of course). The collapse of the socialist countries is what paved the way for the recent surges in popularity for neo-fascist movements across much of Eastern Europe.

    So life was quite enjoyable for you behind the iron curtain was it?
    I trust you’ll be having a chardonnay with dinner tonight?

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  31. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Kea (4,006) Says:

    May 6th, 2013 at 1:29 pm
    “Antisemitism rising in Hungary”… anti Muslim rising every where else, including all over Kiwiblog !

    Vote: 0 9

    It seems the overwhelming number of readers consider religious persecution is ok. Seems we learn nothing from history.

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  32. Rightandleft (691 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Actually Jews have faced much more persecution and hatred than most other ethnic groups I can think of. They were driven from their homeland and enslaved by the Romans, following their attemped rebellion. They were slaughtered during the crusades as Christians decided to kill the infidels next door on their way to slaughter Muslims in the Middle East. They were blamed for the Black Death in the 1340s and burned in bon fires in places like Strasbourg, France. They were targeted by the Spanish Inquisition and expelled from Spain (1492), Portugal (1497), England, France, Naples etc. The Jews were forces into ghettos in Venice in the midst of the Renaissance. They were forced to wear special clothing by Papal Edict. In Russian they were confined to the Pale of Settlement, kept impoverished and then slaughtered in pogroms from 1881 onward and driven out by official government policy.

    Before the Nazis started the holocaust in Poland the Polish government already segregated and persecuted Jews and even looked into exiling them all to Madagascar. The local populations of many Eastern European states slaughtered the Jews well before the Nazi killing squads arrived.

    And that is but a sliver of the sad and painful history of the Jews. I’d like to hear of the equivalent persecution of Muslims over the period of hundreds of years in dozens of different countries. I’m not saying Muslims don’t face persecution, just that it is not equivalent to what happened to the Jews. And even though they were a small proportion of the dead in WWII they stand out because of the calculated way in which civilians were killed and the high proportion of their population that was wiped out. No other ethnicity suffered anywhere close to their losses. The Poles and Yugoslavs (mainly Serbs killed by Croats) came closest with 20-25% of their people killed, but the Jews lost much more than that.

    Harriet,

    You really should never compare the persecution of Christians in the modern world to the persecution of Jews. Christian remain a majority group with little real persecution. Having people disagree with the views of certain sects of Christianity (many Christian churches in the US and Europe actually support gay marriage) is nowhere near the same thing as having members of your religion rounded up and put in camps or executed! I’d like to know why you think 90% of Jews having to hide their religion to avoid violent attacks is the same as some conservative Christians being told off by less conservative Christians and the non-religious.

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  33. SHG (321 comments) says:

    Yes, but the Muslims didn’t kill Jesus now did they? QED.

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  34. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Actually Jews have faced much more persecution and hatred than most other ethnic groups I can think of

    Which proves thinking is not your thing.

    The reality is your not even trying to think. You are simply repeating what you have been told without research.

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  35. Pita (314 comments) says:

    And I thought the creation of the EU was to prevent such a thing happening in Europe ever again!

    Unemployment…financial collapse…the rise of Nationalism… and anti-Semitism are the catalysts for totalitarianism, only a few short steps to go before the whole EU experiment implodes.

    I doubt if we hear much from Brussels or Strasbourg apart from a few murmurings of rapprochement as the technocrats continue to pursue their ideology and secure their paychecks.

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  36. Bob R (1,420 comments) says:

    ***Christian remain a majority group with little real persecution. ***

    @ Rightandleft,

    Except where they’re not. Also, the countries where they are majorities aren’t likely to remain that way due to immigration policy.

    “At a congressional hearing last month about the persecution of Christians in the Middle East, Christian leaders urged the administration to lean harder on Egypt’s leaders to investigate violence against religious minorities and to lay out a clear strategy in Iraq for their protection.

    A 2009 survey by the nonprofit Pew Forum that measured governmental and societal restrictions on religion found that a number of the world’s least tolerant countries are Muslim-majority. The list included Iran, Egypt, Indonesia and Pakistan as well as India, which is majority Hindu. Concerns include bans on public preaching and conversion and the lack of prosecution for religion-based violence.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/02/AR2011020203714.html

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  37. Bob R (1,420 comments) says:

    ***Unemployment…financial collapse…the rise of Nationalism… and anti-Semitism are the catalysts for totalitarianism, only a few short steps to go before the whole EU experiment implodes.***

    @ Pita,

    Except that you can have totalitarianism under a Communist regime. Indeed, you’ll find some who refer to the EU as the EUSSR.

    As for anti-semitism, that has increased in Western Europe as a result of the growing Muslim population. Some EU progressives like to ignore that inconvenient reality, and have previously tried to bury it:

    “Even after a previous EUMC report produced in 2003 was not released by the Centre, reportedly because of the report’s conclusion that Muslim immigrants were responsible for the sharp increase in anti-Semitic violence in the Spring of 2002, the EU still appears unwilling to acknowledge its own findings that Muslim immigrant youth are increasingly responsible for anti-Semitic violence motivated by the conflict in the Middle East.”

    http://archive.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/4473_13.htm

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  38. Mobile Michael (473 comments) says:

    Not black and white, jew and gentile, protestant and catholic, all are the children of God.

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  39. cha (4,138 comments) says:

    I doubt if we hear much from Brussels or Strasbourg apart from a few murmurings of rapprochement as the technocrats continue to pursue their ideology and secure their paychecks.

    EU funding of the Jobbik Party was supported by their fellow travellers.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jan/27/ukip-far-right

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  40. Rightandleft (691 comments) says:

    Bob R.,

    The reference Harriet made to Christians having to hide their religion was related to gay’s killing themselves, referring very specifically to NZ or other Western countries where gay marriage is being debated, not to Egypt or other Muslim countries where Christians are indeed a persecuted minority. My point was that it was silly to compare the experience of Christians living in societies that are at present still Christian majority to the experience of a persecuted minority like the Jews in Hungary.

    Kea,

    I don’t know how you presume to know where I got my facts from. I studied Medeival Jewish History at university in a course which required heavy research and the use of many primary sources (ones from the actual time period). I have read first-hand accounts of Jewish massacres in Germany and France in the Middle Ages. The slaughter after the Roman rebellion is well documented, as is the anti-Semitism of Russia and the rest of Eastern Europe.

    The only other ethnic groups with histories even close to as bloody as the Jews would be the Gypsies/Roma, Kurds and Armenians. But even they can’t quite compare to the hatred the Jews have faced in so many countries. The Roma might be a close second.

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  41. Andronicus (219 comments) says:

    rouppe’s comparison between Hungarian anti-semiticism and the Electoral Finance Act is a tad exaggerated. I trust it was meant to be.

    The situation in Hungary is serious – the rise of Nazism anywhere needs careful watching.

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  42. Bob R (1,420 comments) says:

    ***EU funding of the Jobbik Party was supported by their fellow travellers.***

    @ Cha,

    Except if you read the article it’s a little more complicated than that. The EU have to provide funding to elected political parties. There was a suggestion that funding should be witheld to certain parties because they don’t have EU values. Now, whatever you may think of EU values or those parties, it is clearly anti-democratic for the EU to withold funding for elected parties they don’t approve of. Indeed, that’s the very thing you would expect from a totalitarian regime.

    And that is what UKIP opposed. After all, what’s to stop the EU from witholding funding from UKIP on the same basis in future?

    From your article.

    “MEP says petition to stop Brussels cash is ‘undemocratic and dangerous.”

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  43. Tinshed (170 comments) says:

    Those who are genuinely interested in following events in Hungary, including the rise of anti-semitism, should follow the excellent Hungarian Spectrum at http://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.com/. Luckily most of the comments on the site are enlightening, rather than the puerile point-scoring found on many other blogs.

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  44. rouppe (983 comments) says:

    My comparison was purely between a political party in one country suggesting that certain people register with the state, and a political party of another country which actually changed the law to require it.

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  45. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Rightandleft, so you studied Jewish history. Now go and study the rest of the world. Sadly you will find your incredibly short list of persecuted people is not even close to the truth.

    But lets just cut the bullshit. You do not care about persecution of people on the basis of religion. If you did you would be supporting my position and speaking out against the hundreds of anti Muslim comments on KB. Almost daily we hear people crying out for war and destruction, even celebrating the deaths of civilians, because they were born Muslim. And you say nothing ! Your full of shit.

    I suspect the real reason is you think the Jews are the “chosen people” gods special folk. They are not and I have little time for justifying bigotry on the basis of the scriblings of a barbaric desert cult.

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  46. Rightandleft (691 comments) says:

    Actually Kea your attempt to pigeon-hole me as a pro-Israeli speaks more to your own extreme views. I certainly don’t think the Jews are God’s chosen people, mainly since I’m an atheist so I don’t believe anyone could be chosen by a god. In fact I think the existence of Israel as a state is a mistake. One of the founding fathers of Zionism, Leo Pinkster, felt that a Jewish state could be created anywhere in the world, perhaps in Canada or part of the US. However, to get financial support for such a state he found only the highly religious would donate and they insisted the homeland had to be the one they believed God promised them, in Palestine. The first two Aliyah (migrations of Jews back to Palestine) in the late 1800s and early 1900s were almost entirely made up of the super religious Jews, while 90% of Jewish migrants leaving Russia went to the US or Western Europe. The game changer was the 1924 American immigration reform laws which basically stopped further migration from Russia, forcing Jews wanting to leave to go to Israel.

    Once in Israel Jews attempted to buy up all the land, but in an incremental way to avoid arousing Arab anger. This worked until the late 1920s when it finally caused Palestinians, realising they were becoming a minority in their own country, to rise up against the Jews. The British reacted by closing off further Jewish migration, which led to the creation of Jewish terror groups like the Irgun, targeting British forces and Palestinians.

    None of that changes the fact that Jews were facing persecution around the world for centuries and still face persecution in many places today. It doesn’t change the fact that many Islamic countries are notoriously intolerant of other religions and democracy in general. As an atheist I am as offended by Muslim intolerance as I am by Christian intolerance. But I have never joined the comments here condemning Islam as a whole, or generalising about all Muslims. It is awfully intolerant and ignorant of you to lump me in with such bigots! I have said in other threads that the extremist elements of Islam are as distasteful to the majority of Muslims as the KKK are to most Christians. The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, hard-working people and I’ve never said differently.

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  47. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    Kea – People are just trying to discuss the topic of the antisemitism in Hungary.

    Do we really have to spend all day having a roll-call of other atrocities that were as bad or worse, before we can get onto the antisemitism in Hungary?

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  48. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Actually Kea your attempt to pigeon-hole me as a pro-Israeli speaks more to your own extreme views.

    So you consider, not persecuting people on the basis of religion, is an “extreme” view ?

    I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Keep up that history study…

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  49. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Do we really have to spend all day having a roll-call of other atrocities that were as bad or worse, before we can get onto the antisemitism in Hungary?

    Yes we do. I am not convinced Hungarian people are any more anti Semitic than they are anti Islamic. I not convinced there is “special” problem that only effects Jews.

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  50. Rightandleft (691 comments) says:

    So you’re just going to ignore the entire rest of my post? I actually agree with you on some points and you attack me again? What an incredibly ignorant little troll you are Kea. And by extreme views, I was referring to the anti-Americanism you’ve posted in other threads.

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  51. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Rightandleft, oh you were referring to “other posts” ! No wonder I was confused.

    I am not sure where you thought you were being attacked and none of my posts are anti American. I object to US foreign policy for very well considered reasons. That is all. As a matter of fact I hold Jews and Americans in higher regard than you may think. I sure know which I would rather have living in the country next door.

    However, my preference for one group over another does not lead me to minimise the death and suffering of the least preferred group, or to exaggerate deaths of the group I like best.

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  52. edd (157 comments) says:

    The Jewish religion is all about free market economics and Europe is facing a backlash against free market economics right now. Jews can’t participate in the backlash without going against their religion so they usually get hammered with the full force of the populist fury.

    The principles of free market economics have been around for as long as the Jews and the Egyptians, and the inevitable reaction against free markets always aims squarely at the Jews. Talking about being the wrong religion at the wrong place at the wrong time.

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  53. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    “So you’re just going to ignore the entire rest of my post?”

    Whoops, I nearly did it again ;)

    Yes I agree with your observations and views in the rest of your post. I am not sure what you imagine you disagree with me on.

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  54. TimG_Oz (866 comments) says:

    I wish my Sunday school education included free market economics. Might have helped in later life!

    I’ll tell my kids teachers that they should include it!!!

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  55. Kacang (36 comments) says:

    Kea, I find it offensive that you equate anger regarding Jihad activities with tacit approval of the murder of Muslim innocents. You conveniently ignore that NZ provided peacekeepers in Kosovo, and accepted Kosovan (presumably Muslim) refugees.

    I abhor all genocide that occurred in the former Jugoslavia
    Serb Orthodox v catholic & Muslim
    Croat Catholic v Muslim & Serb
    Muslim v Catholic & Serb

    Evidence shows that each of the above happened. That it happened to a group does not excuse that group’s retaliation in kind.

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  56. Rightandleft (691 comments) says:

    edd,

    The Jewish religion is all about free markets? What the hell?! The modern state of Israel is based on Jewish socialism, living on the kibbutz, sharing everything, practically a hippy commune.

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  57. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Kacang, I am not sure what you disagree with me on. It would help if you address what I actually wrote, rather than what you imagine I am thinking.

    “Kea, I find it offensive”… So what ? Offense is a subjective emotion, not a description of anything external.

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  58. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    edd, free markets are the natural default position for trade. They were not invented by any one. But I do see your point and agree with it. Jews are often targeted due to their financial dealings and the perception that they control the worlds money.

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  59. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    @Kea – “It seems the overwhelming number of readers consider religious persecution is ok. Seems we learn nothing from history.”

    Dear Kea…. Islam is really a violent and hatemongering *ideology* rather than a “religion”. There is *nothing wrong* with being against an ideology.

    Here’s one place to get some background info on that – there are many others –
    http://www.politicalislam.com/principles/pages/five-principles/

    But don’t just take *my* word for how bad Islam is. Take the word of *apostates* – those who have left Islam –
    http://www.apostatesofislam.com/

    Quote – “But we committed the ultimate sin of thinking and questioned the belief that was imposed on us and we came to realize that far from being a religion of truth, Islam is a hoax, it is hallucination of a sick mind and nothing but lies and deceits.”

    Check this out too –
    http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/

    That lets you see at a glance how many verses in the Quran are hateful of non-Muslims. *Lots*.

    Trust me – when it comes to Islam, I know my stuff…… :)

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  60. edd (157 comments) says:

    @ rightandleft

    Israel is in a constant state of war and has been ever since it’s inception after the second world war. That is why they all help each other out the way they do. If the war ever stops they will revert to a free market economy as per their religion. I’m not saying free markets are good or bad here, just making an observation.

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  61. Harriet (5,200 comments) says:

    “…..Kea – People are just trying to discuss the topic of the antisemitism in Hungary.

    Do we really have to spend all day having a roll-call of other atrocities that were as bad or worse, before we can get onto the antisemitism in Hungary?…”

    Well said RRM. I agree with you on that. :cool:

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  62. Rightandleft (691 comments) says:

    Kibbutz began as early as the First Aliyah in the 1880s, long before there was war between Palestinians and Jews. The kibbutz were utopian socialist communes initially dedicated to farming but then expanded to other areas. They expanded during the Second Aliyah and were widespread by the 1920s. It was only in 1929 that serious violence between Arabs and Jews erupted and it took until the mid-1930s for that violence to become constant and for the kibbutz to begin taking on a military role.

    There is no tie between Jewish religion and free-market capitalism. The association of Jews with banking had nothing to do with their religion. Christians were banned from giving loans with interest as it was considered the sin of usury. Jews, not barred from such loan-sharking, provided an important source of credit in the Middle Ages. Banking was considered a dishonest and reviled job, though very necessary. Few Jews were actually wealthy bankers (most were poor farmers or labourers) but since nearly all bankers were Jews at that time it started the myth of the wealthy finance controlling Jew.

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  63. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Rightandleft, not to mention Karl Marx himself was a Jew. In fact I would associate Jews more with the left leaning than the right, not withstanding the fact there are a number of high profile Jews who are wealthy. However there are many wealthy Muslim Arabs who have grown rich from the oil beneath their feet. Regardless of all that, none of it justifies the vilification of entire people. If the problem is excessive wealth, then it should be addressed on those terms and not on their religion.

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  64. Kea (13,557 comments) says:

    Well said RRM. I agree with you on that.

    Yet no comment about those who discussed Asians buying dairy farms at the start of this thread ! Apparently that is relevant. Remarkable. Stop the posturing guys, I am not buying it.

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  65. simonway (387 comments) says:

    Bob R: Why would I be surprised that Gorbachev and Yeltsin were in favour of fascism in 1956, and opposed to defending socialism? Both were enthusiastic supporters of the dismantling of socialism and final restoration of capitalism in the Soviet Union.

    And I am familiar with the revisionist histories of 1956 that erase the counter-revolutionary nature of the “revolution”, that conspicuously fail to mention the anti-Semitic violence of the rebels and vandals, that praise fascists like Bela Kiraly (who, after serving as an officer in the military under the command of the Arrow Cross regime, was allowed to continue his service in the post-war socialist government, but who repaid this generosity with treason, exposing his true, fascist nature).

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  66. edd (157 comments) says:

    @ Kea

    “Rightandleft, not to mention Karl Marx himself was a Jew. ”

    I think it’s a mistake to confuse the Jewish race with the Jewish religion. There is no Christian race, Buddhist race, Muslim race, or any other religious race for that matter. The Jewish people are the only people who share the same name as a religion. This confusion is the cause of anti-antisemitism, which is actually anti Jewish-fundamentalist-religion-ism. But the label sticks in peoples minds and the two get lumped in together to the detriment of all Jews, religious or not.

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  67. unaha-closp (1,067 comments) says:

    In 1938 the Hungarian Government banned Jews from government employment and from editing newspapers. No private employer could have more than 12% Jewish employees. Most Jews lost the right to vote. In 1941 Jews were banned from marrying non-Jews. Note Germany did not invade Hungary until 1944.

    Further Notes: Later in 1944 the Soviet Union invaded, installed a communist government and freed the Jews. The communists killed (between 1945 and 1956) more than 200,000 and imprisoned 600,000 out of a population only twice the size of New Zealand’s current population. No one has ever been held accountable for these crimes against humanity, but there is a very obvious group of Hungarian residents who participated as willing communists – care to hazard a guess who that group might be?

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