IPCA report on Operation 8

May 22nd, 2013 at 12:55 pm by David Farrar

The report on the Operation 8 can be found here. Key conclusions:

  • The  Authority  has  found  that    were  entitled,  on  the  information  they  had,  to  view   the  threat  posed  by  this  group  as  real  and  potentially  serious.    The  investigation  into  such   activities  by  Police  was  reasonable  and  necessary.  
  • From  a  policing  perspective  the  termination  phase  of  Operation  Eight  was  concluded   safely.    No  shots  were  fired  by  Police  or  others,  despite  Police  locating  a  number  of   firearms  and  weapons.    All  target  individuals  were  located  without  incident  and  no   members  of  the  public  were  put  at  risk.  
  • The  planning  and  preparation  for  the  execution  of  search  warrants  on  termination  of   Operation  Eight  was  largely  in  accordance  with  applicable  policy.    It  involved  huge   logistical  challenges  given  that  search  warrants  had  to  be  executed  simultaneously  across  the  country.    Those  individuals  who  were  considered  by  Police  to  pose  the  greatest  risk   were  quickly  and  safely  apprehended.      
  • In  contrast,  the  planning  and  preparation  for  the  establishment  of  the  road  blocks  in   Ruatoki  and  Taneatua  was  deficient.    The  Authority  has  found  there  was  no  lawful  basis   for  those  road  blocks  being  established  or  maintained.  There  was  no  lawful  power  or   justification  for  Police  to  detain,  stop  and  search  the  vehicles,  take  details  from  or   photograph  the  drivers  or  passengers.      
  • There  was  no  assessment  of  the  substantial  and  adverse  impact  of  such  road  blocks  on   the  local  community.    The  road  block  at  Ruatoki  was  intimidating  to  innocent  members  of   that  community,  particularly  in  view  of  the  use  of  armed  Police  officers  in  full  operational   uniform.      
  • The  majority  of  complaints  received  by  the  Authority  in  relation  to  property  searches   were  not  from  target  individuals  but  rather  from  other  occupants  at  these  properties   complaining  about  the  way  they  were  treated  by  Police.  Some  felt  they  were  being   treated  as  suspects.    A  number  of  occupants  were  informed  by  Police  that  they  were   being  detained  while  a  search  of  the  property  occurred,  despite  there  being  no  lawful   basis  for  such  detention.  Police  had  no  legal  basis  for  conducting  personal  searches  of   these  occupants.  
  • The  Authority  has  concluded  that  a  number  of  aspects  of  the  Police  termination  of   Operation  Eight  were  contrary  to  law  and  unreasonable.    In  a  complex  operation  of  the   type  that  was  undertaken  here,  there  are  always  a  number  of  important  lessons  to  be   learned  about  future  Police  policy  and  practices.    The  Police  internal  debrief  following  the   termination  of  Operation  Eight  has  already  identified  a  number  of  those  lessons  and   necessary  changes  to  Police  training,  policy  and  operational  instructions  have  been  made.     The  Authority  has  made  a  number  of  other  recommendations  in  light  of  its  own  findings.     This  includes  the  need  to  re-­‐engage,  and  build  bridges,  with  the  Ruatoki  community.  

This looks a sensible and well balanced report. In short the conclusions are:

  1. The operation against those arrested was justified as they posed a real and serious threat
  2. The actual arrest and treatment of those arrested was done properly and lawfully
  3. The treatment of the wider community was over the top, insensitive and in some cases unlawful

The Ruatoki community do deserve an apology for their treatment by the Police. I think they have had one already, but will no doubt receive another. It is worth noting that of course we now have a different Police Commissioner and Minister of Police as from 2007.

But let’s not make martyrs out of those arrested. They were acting somewhere between very foolishly and with malignant intent, and the Police were right to bring their activities to an end. Their personal treatment was not generally criticized by the IPCA. They also bear some of the blame for provoking the Police action in Ruatoki. 17 firearms were found in three properties at Ruatoki, and 12 smashed Molotov cocktails at their training camp.

But as I have commented before, the Police response did seem over the top – and the IPCA has agreed. We expect better  from our Police than we do of Tame Iti and Valerie Morse. They have a job ahead rebuilding confidence with Ruatoki.

 

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103 Responses to “IPCA report on Operation 8”

  1. Viking2 (10,723 comments) says:

    The actual arrest and treatment of those arrested was done properly and lawfully

    ===============
    Really, In one case I know personally, where the person was arrested on returning to Taneatuawith his children in the vehicle, his treatment and that of his children in the vehicle was a disgrace. Further he was eventually released with an apology of sorts after a second round of intimidation.

    fuck I despise white washes.

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  2. Manolo (12,626 comments) says:

    The neo-Maori Luddites claim foul: http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8662803/greens-condemn-police-for-ruatoki-raids

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  3. metcalph (1,293 comments) says:

    Viking,

    What’s the whitewash? The case that you know personally is covered under the criticisms of the roadblocks and the searching of people at them.

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  4. F E Smith (3,273 comments) says:

    A  number  of  occupants  were  informed  by  Police  that  they  were   being  detained  while  a  search  of  the  property  occurred,  despite  there  being  no  lawful   basis  for  such  detention.  Police  had  no  legal  basis  for  conducting  personal  searches  of   these  occupants

    Actually, this is not an uncommon feature of police searches.  

    Now that we have had a finding that a number of the detentions were unlawful, will there be civil or criminal actions taken against the police?  At the very least there could be a claim for compensation by those unlawfully detained. After all, the NZ Bill of Rights is supposed to guarantee us to protection from unlawful search and seizure

    I don’t mention the chances of disciplinary action, because that would be too much to expect.  However the mistakes made were not minor mistakes.  Did the Police genuinely think they were within the law to detain so many people who were not targets of the raids?  If so, the person or people responsible for such wrongheaded advice should be sacked.

    Of course, we also know that there was a fair amount of illegality about the way in which they collected evidence, so overall their legal advice, if they sought any, was appalling.

    It must never be acceptable for the Police to break the law while trying to enforce it.  The Police, of all people, should be observing the entirety of the law when acting, even in situations such as the Urewera case, where they have a large number of people to arrest.

    What is really sad is that it takes the focus away from what should have been a successful, important, and necessary, operation and instead turns it into a farce that allowed a number of probably guilty parties to escape justice. 

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  5. Nookin (2,887 comments) says:

    Manolo

    A propos the comments attributed to Clendon namely

    “He believed racial discrimination played a part on the abuse of rights and illegal detention of innocent people.

    “Would the police have raided Remuera in Auckland, or Khandallah in Wellington in the same way?” he asked.

    An apology was the bare minimum police could offer, he said.

    Police rode roughshod over the rights of Ruatoki people, he said. ”

    He is maliciously stirring up racial discontent. Would the police have raided Remuera etc? Do we tell the dickhead about Dotcom?

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  6. tvb (3,941 comments) says:

    It is the detention of innocent members of the public and children where the Police have some explaining to do. The report is very forthright but the initial work was done by Justice Goddard and was followed through by the present head of the PCA. It is good to see such a courageous report. It contrasts with the report of the Inspector General on the GCSB which should have used less ambiguous language.

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  7. Keeping Stock (9,789 comments) says:

    Let’s not forget that these raids took place in 2007, when Helen Clark was Prime Minister, and Howard Broad was Commissioner of Police. The circumstances in which Broad got that role and in which his predecessor was removed from the job go to the heart of the trustworthiness of the previous government. And the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 under which those arrested were charged (with the charges soon being dropped) was passed by the Clark Labour Government in its first term in office.

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  8. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Viking2 , why do you drop the word “children” into every sentence ? No children were arrested.

    Are you suggesting that people with children should be exept from the law and free to go about their criminal activities, even if those activities involve planning armed attacks against other children, women and civilians ? Your wanker mate sounds like he has had lessons from Hamas. Are his kids “revolutionaries” too ?

    I think your criminal mate should have been shot in the guts and left to bleed out on the road and the worthless brats shot in the face. But that is just me !

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  9. F E Smith (3,273 comments) says:

    No children were arrested.

    No, but IIRC a number were unlawfully detained and searched, including, from memory, some on a school bus.

    EDIT: 

    I think your criminal mate should have been shot in the guts and left to bleed out on the road and the worthless brats shot in the face. But that is just me !

    Gee, that is, um, an exceptionally unpleasant thing to say. 

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  10. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    F E Smith, I will take – your – word for that.

    I feel rather strongly about this event. What they were planning was basically civil war. The sort of thing you see nightly on the news in various hell-holes around the world. Make no mistake, what they were planning works and is proven to do so. Ask the people of Syria and many others. The tit-for-tat and revenge killings keep things running indefinately. Don’t think for a minute that it could not happen here. It could.

    As for the “think of the children” argument, I call Bullshit on that manipulative crap. Children would have suffered far worse if the group had succeeded in its efforts. Also, such groups use children as combatants, cashing in on the bleeding heart snivelling that portrays children as harmless. There are armies of the little shits who would kill you as quick as look at you my white middle class friend.

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  11. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    Kea: the reason “children” is dropped into this story at every opportunity is the same as the phrase “dead baby” is used in my case to refer to a child/boy who was two and a half at the time of his death…”dead baby” sounds so much more heinous than “dead child”, and that much worse than “boy who died in childhood”..

    (NO Judith, I am NOT “trying to mimimise it”; merely pointing out how emotive language can be used to amp up the emotion)

    The sad reality is, as we see in the Middle East all the time, some individuals are fanatical enough about the rightness of their cause to use children to further it, the ultimate obscenity of course being children wired up to bombs riggered either by themselves or adults…While there is no suggestion that these clowns were considering using suicide bombs – whether strapped to themselves or their children – I believe the words “fanatic” and “terrorist” are perfectly justified descriptors of them. The terrorist who is overpowered before he can set his device off is no less a terrorist.

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  12. Graeme Edgeler (3,220 comments) says:

    And the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 under which those arrested were charged (with the charges soon being dropped) was passed by the Clark Labour Government in its first term in office.

    Charges were never laid under the Terrorism Suppression Act.

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  13. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Kea: the reason …

    Yes David I know. It is one of my pet hates the manipulative and insincere way some people try to cash in on our concern for children. I do not buy into one bit… as you may have noticed.

    The sickest part is that the views these people express would ultimately be worse for kids. It is absurd to think the biggest issue with the Urerewa terrorists was the fact the Police wore black and kids may have been upset ! I wonder how they would feel if their kids got struck with a random napalm bomb in a shopping mall and were writhing around as they died screaming before their eyes. Think of the children my arse.

    Kids are dying in their hundreds/thousands due to civil unrest around the world. People in NZ need to wake up and realise how quickly and how badly our neatly ordered world can be thrown in chaos.

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  14. James Stephenson (1,885 comments) says:

    Charges were never laid under the Terrorism Suppression Act.

    Which was because the police found that the Act was such a dogs breakfast that they didn’t even try to bring charges. No?

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  15. Viking2 (10,723 comments) says:

    Kea (4,462) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    Viking2 , why do you drop the word “children” into every sentence ? No children were arrested.

    Are you suggesting that people with children should be exept from the law and free to go about their criminal activities, even if those activities involve planning armed attacks against other children, women and civilians ? Your wanker mate sounds like he has had lessons from Hamas. Are his kids “revolutionaries” too ?

    I think your criminal mate should have been shot in the guts and left to bleed out on the road and the worthless brats shot in the face. But that is just me !

    ==============================
    Well Kea first of the wasn’t my mate, he wa an employee of one of my companies who was at work in Tauranga when it all happened. He had spent a good part of his life living up the valley and with his family owned land in that area.
    His mate was the local policeman who rang him at work and asked him to return to Taneatua because “if you don’t they are going to come for you”.. He then picked up his kids from school and proceeded to return to Taneatua. whereupon he was stopped on the road, ordered at gunpoint out of his vehicle and made to lie on the road beneath a gun whilst his kids were crapping themselves in the vehicle.
    He was detained for (from memory 3 days) and then was able to return to work where upon before morning tea time he received a call from a Wellington cop demanding he return to his house in Papamoa or they would come to work and get him. Again he was detained to be finally let go with a written apology.

    You should note that he was not involved in anyway with the group, had never been in trouble with the police.
    He came to Tauranga to take his kids out of the drug etc culture that his women was involved in and to get his kids a better education.

    He was a hard working guy, very likeable, and had been a NZ Junoir league player of some sort (can’t remember the details. now).
    Shortly after that his Dad died and he remained there. He became involved with the settlement process and had some interesting context to the raids etc to tell.
    He was treated badly and his kids were basically terrorized.
    He was obviously seen as a nark because he was later set up with an argument which lead to jail where he was bashed and had to be segregated for his own saftey. ( and he was a fit strong bugger from trapping possums and cutting firewood for years.)

    In short the kinda guy I would have look after my back anytime.

    A day or so after the raids I was in the home of one of the rifleman. They had been spun a real story, he was a Maori guy and was somewhat perplexed by it all and somewhat doubtful of their behavoir.

    Now I accept that some parts of the operation were justified and needed to be done. However like dot com they didn’t do their homework properly, behaved like badly behaved people and terrified ordinary kiwi’s. There appears to be no constraints on police behavoir of this kind except some belated “oh we were wrong sorry”

    so yeah I think that a white wash stinks of shit Don’t you.

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  16. Graeme Edgeler (3,220 comments) says:

    Which was because the police found that the Act was such a dogs breakfast that they didn’t even try to bring charges. No?

    That was the story they told, but I don’t really buy it, and didn’t at the time. See, for example: http://publicaddress.net/speaker/pt-2-terrorism-charges-whats-involved/

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  17. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Viking2, I will accept your story and maybe this guy was not treated well.

    What annoys me is the way the media spun this story from day one. It was all about the Police, the colour of their uniforms and the fact the children may have been afraid. Speculation about the emotions of kids, and others, was not the real story !

    The real story was about what these people were up to. They may have been relatively harmless, but it was the start of a very troubling direction. The fact some kids were there makes not one bit of difference.

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  18. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    “But the IPCA found one of the most criticised parts of the Urewera raids – the stopping and searching of a kohanga reo bus full of young children – did not happen.”

    This alleged incident that frightened all the poor wee kiddies was breathlessly reported as ‘Gospel’ by pretty much every NZ media outlet. Turns out they are as much bullshit artists as the alleged victims…I expect an apology to NZ Police is forthcoming?

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  19. KapitiCoast (103 comments) says:

    would all this media/leftie/maori handwring and angst be there if it were a bikie gang running around with molotov cocktails and weapons (within their own property, Tuhoi were on their land) ‘pretending’ to be training as bodyguards when caught IF said perpretrators where white?….Iti and the other 2 clowns were found guilty, end of story.

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  20. Viking2 (10,723 comments) says:

    Except the kids were not there i.e. in the Urewera’s where the camps were. They were on their legitimate routines of work, schools, buses etc.
    Imagine the crap if someone went to Seatoun or Kelburn or remm’a and held up the school bus in all their ninja gear.
    and remember this was planned by the top dogs in Wellintown. Clearly extremely intimidating. Which may be appropriate in other place and times.
    Frightened of the country local’s I’d say. Frightened of their own shadows more like. That they didn’t even think to consider the local history is even more pathetic but actually shows just how little of our countries history that most Kiwi’s actually know.

    There were better ways to have achieved a result but it was all about “show the bastards” and prop up that prick Cullen who acts for various iwi surrounding Tuhoe country and as a test for his new legislation. Iwi that have been at loggerheads with Tuhoe for ever. You will have noted a recent news item about that and the burying of the hatchet.

    It was also an attempt to intimidate Tuhoe over the carbon credits contained in the ownership and guardianship of the Urewera’s and Tuhoe’s natural lands about which they were endeavoring to negotiate a rightful settlement.

    Tuhoe are the only people to have properly documented their history in the area in a book that anyone can read.

    Well worth the read.

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  21. Viking2 (10,723 comments) says:

    Longknives (2,484) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 4:29 pm

    “But the IPCA found one of the most criticised parts of the Urewera raids – the stopping and searching of a kohanga reo bus full of young children – did not happen.”

    Ha, go ask the locals and what about the TV pictures showing the same.

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  22. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    “Ha, go ask the locals and what about the TV pictures showing the same.”

    Should be easy to find a link then showing Police ‘terrorising’ these poor wee innocent children.

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  23. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Viking2, so what if they searched a school bus and so what if it was a “kohanga reo” bus ?

    They were not doing it for shits-and-giggles !

    It is exactely this sort of manipulative bleeding heart crap that results in terrorists using children as cover. Are you suggesting criminals should not be approached if they have a child near them ? Your appeals to emotion suggest you do not have a strong argument.

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  24. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    So I’m guessing you actively support Iti and his ‘Bros’ V2?

    The plans to kill the Prime Minister.
    The plans to slaughter Pakeha.
    The planned bombings, The planned warfare…
    All caught on tape remember?

    You okay with this V2? Think blowing up Dams and slaughtering innocent New Zealanders is a good idea??
    The fact your mate who was mixed up in all this played junior League for NZ (or whatever) is totally fucking irrelevant.

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  25. KapitiCoast (103 comments) says:

    Viking2…awaiting the video link! Ohh and “Tuhoe are the only people to have properly documented their history in the area in a book that anyone can read”, hmmm…. Maori had no written language when Cook arrived, and still none when settlers arrived….so the ‘written history’ one can assume will be a glowing report of heroics and struggle and all the ‘bad bits’ omitted…like killing/eating/enslaving neighbouring tribes eh?, or if it’s included, as historic fact, will be watered down one assummes?….Maori are quick to paint the ‘rasist’ brush on any european historical documents of the time, written by settlers as wrong (if they paint that tribe/IWI in a bad light)
    …only Maori history is right!..pfffttt…rubbish, absolute tosh! Maori would have us all believe it was a nirvana/utopia of Maori hunter gatherers all peaceful and homogonised…BULLSHIT! If Cook didn’t arrive and NZ left to it’s own devices…there would be just one tribe and just a few thousand members.

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  26. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    Kea: I must also respectfully disagree with your statement at 3.57 that “They may have been relatively harmless…” Pig’s ear they were harmless! While they obviously f…ed it up in several ways (they seem to have done a bit of that lately) there is no doubt in my mind that the cops prevented murders that day…the intercepted tapes are available on the net…anyone who doesn’t think those guys were deadly serious after listening to those is a kumara short of the kete full.

    One of the worst bits of media kid glove treatment was Simon Mercep, the bumbling incompetent now on Morning Report with Geoff Robinson. Mercep asked Tamati Kruger – the new Mahatma Gandhi of Maori nationalism – just what they boys were doing up there with molotov cocktails and other IED’s

    Kruger rambled on about how the Tuhoe had long lived off the land, and hunting was a very real part of their lifestyle ..”not like you pakeha fullas in the city…ho ho ho..” Mercep let him away with it – completely failing to follow up and ask how they managed to hunt deer with molotov cocktails and improvised grenades. Utter bullshit.

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  27. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    I hate to say it but it’s almost a shame they didn’t meet with some success in their plans. It would have opened people’s eyes.

    Give them their Tuhoe Nation. Build a wall around it.

    Turn off the power supply going in.

    Let them eat cake. Or each other…

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  28. KapitiCoast (103 comments) says:

    @ Kea…correct!, Islamic terrorists soon realised that the searching of islamic women, in a burka, was a no go area for western forces in middle east preserving peace…and what ensued?, male sucide bombers wore a burka!, also where is the place where islamic terrorists/fighters ‘hide’ in the middle east?…answer: a Mosque, why?…if US or any allied force sends a missile to kill them in the building, the fact they are terrorists is a moot point, the ‘infidels’ blew up a mosque is all the media will report and for the 5-10 they are after becomes 1000+ joining as a mosque blew up by infidels. Maori know how to manipulate and use the media/Govt (NOOOO not saying they are terrorists, but they know how to manipulate them to their advantage as we have a left media and The Green party has too much of a free ride within the NZ media/parliament, I just hope Key and National are keeping their powder dry till next year as a Labour/Green Govt. frightens the beejeezus out of me!)

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  29. Graeme Edgeler (3,220 comments) says:

    The real story was about what these people were up to.

    Why are we limited to one story?

    The real story of September 11 was about Islamic extremism killing thousands of people in New York and Washington, but if the police response to that had been to detain busloads of American children who lived nearby should everyone have ignored it?

    The real story about the deaths of Harvey and Jeanette Crew was the deaths of Harvey and Jeanette Crew. Does that mean we should ignore the fit-up of Arthur Allan Thomas?

    We can talk about multiple aspects of one thing.

    But you do ask what these people were up to. The answer is pretty simple. I believe many of them were attending local primary schools, as the law requires of them.

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  30. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    RRM: I have some sympathy for that view – although I think the price of a few dead politicians (all joking aside) would have been too much to pay for a stark lesson in what these guys are really about.

    As for walling off the bloody place, absolutely. There are several power stations in the Urewera so they’d be alright for electricity for a while …until spares were needed. I think you might need a fair few ketes of kumara to exchange for a new generator shaft bearing or three. The lack of oil for big 4WD’s would be a major problem, as would new tyres, TV’s, computers, fridges and all the other accroutements of 21st century western society.

    Best of all though, Iti and Kemara would need visas to transit through New Zealand in order to get to Auckland airport to go and address their brothers overseas. I suggest getting said visas might be a bit of a problem…at least until Hone becomes Minister of Internal affairs.

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  31. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    kea – you crack me up! thumbs up from Dime.

    if you ask willie jackson then they were all good people. hell, the main one has an ask uncle show on maori tv! that proves hes a good guy BAHAHAHAHA

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  32. trout (865 comments) says:

    Hindsight is a wonderful thing: especially if you are an armchair activist. The police did whatever they had to do in the face of an unknown threat. Perhaps they should have acted like the cop at Aramoana of the cop in Napier (was it?). They had cause to believe that the dissidents had access to a variety of weapons including sniper rifles. Get real.

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  33. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    trout: Well said…but they didnt just “have access” to a variety of weapons, including high powered rifles, they actually HAD them….I am still waiting for one of their defenders to explain how you hunt deer or wild pigs with molotov cocktails and grenades.

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  34. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Next time we will not be so lucky.
    Iti and his mates are nurturing the next generation on what they are entitled to.
    The same as the present moari constitution hijacking attempt will fuel demands for moari dominance by te triti

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  35. F E Smith (3,273 comments) says:

    explain how you hunt deer or wild pigs with molotov cocktails

    Its for hunting when in a hurry.  It saves having to cook the meat after killing the animal. 

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  36. KapitiCoast (103 comments) says:

    Nooooo DG, they were not hunting deer/boar…they were training to be body guards, not only can’t you hunt deer/boar with molotov coctails, what kind of body guard carries them?? this was the defence…’training to be body guards’!!

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  37. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    My sympathy is with the police. I hate these bureaucratic reports about the police didn’t effectively do traffic management or some such nonsense. They were trying to stop trainee terrorists from starting a civil war. So sometimes things can get a little rough. That’s what happens when the police have to deal with terrorism.

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  38. nasska (9,526 comments) says:

    The police would not be receiving the criticism they are over the 2007 Urewera raid had they not pulled off a completely over the top act worthy of Rambo to arrest Kim Dotcom. I reckon that without that FBI inspired crap the public would have been far more accepting of the cops actions when putting the brakes on the Tuhoe hosted potential terrorism.

    If the police leaders are capable of learning anything then maybe they’ll stop watching American cop shows.

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  39. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    Kapiti: Yes…I recall that…which will be why the defences failed, and the Supreme Court refused to hear any appeals from “the Urewera Seven”.

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  40. KapitiCoast (103 comments) says:

    And tis why the 3x were convicted DG!, crappy defence reason…not crappy lawyers, but you gotta work with the shit you got to defend eh?, irrespective of how lame, you GOTTA have a defence…you being a Lawyer also, you gotta have something to hang your hat on…the 3x idiots had NO reason, enter lawyers :)

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  41. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Now just imagine if Tama Iti invited some radical Muslims to train with him in some remote location and teach him what they know. A very likely scenario given that Islamists have been sniffing around Maori for years.

    The US might invade us and the “collateral damage” will be you and your family. The consensus of opinion on KB is that is acceptable, given the reception my anti Afghanistan war comments receive. Some folk just do not think things through.

    Perhaps a better comparison would be the US funding the “rebels” and threatening air strikes against the government forces resisting them (Syria). Remember Tama Iti is an indigenous person fighting a cruel oppressive colonial regime with whom his people have never granted sovereignty. Imagine how that would be spun in the world media.

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  42. F E Smith (3,273 comments) says:

    Crappy defences are one of the worst things that you can get as defence counsel. When your client raises one, you just look at them and say “Seriously? You really expect the Court/jury to believe that?”. If the client insists, however, and you cannot show it is false, you really have to proceed with it as instructed.

    Had that happen to me in a case that I was junior counsel on a few years ago. From memory it was a Class A case, in the High Court etc, etc, and the client insisted that some stupid excuse was actually true. The barrister who trained me was leading me and I have never been more grateful to have a leader who didn’t say “Right, Smith, you are getting the junior’s job of presenting this argument!!!”. He manfully stepped up to the plate. The prosecutor teased him mercilessly about it afterwards (as did I, admittedly) and I am certain that it sped up the rate at which the jury arrived at a guilty verdict quite significantly.

    Anybody who thinks that defence lawyers dream up defences for their clients are just plain dumb, or have watched too much American TV. Those idiots manage to come up with stupid stuff all by themselves, we don’t need to help one little bit.

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  43. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    Kapiti: to be fair to my criminal lawyer colleagues, the “we were training to be security guards” defence will not have been thought up by the lawyers….they would have said “Unless you want to plead guilty, we need to offer a defence, and some explanation of what you were doing up there….so what do you want me to tell the court?”

    That lame bullshit was obviously the best the Tuhoe ambassador and his sidekick could come up with…

    Kea: the scenario you suggest is far from fanciful….some Maori dickhead with a new Muslim name was banned from visiting prisons a couple of years ago when the authorities realised that he wasn’t just teaching the bros about the prophet and the 72 virgins that awaited them…

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  44. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    Dime is surprised there arent maori muslim groups out there. it will be freakin hilarious to see. with the long beards and robes. they will look fucking ridiculous

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  45. KapitiCoast (103 comments) says:

    OMG…FFS, REALLY Kea?….haahaahaa, ok…’proof’ Al Quida/Islamists have been ‘sniffing’ around Maori for years?. You don’t realise what you have just said Kea, IF Islamists have been ‘sniffing’ around Maori for years WOULDN’T YOU HOPE the Govt spy agency were onto it? WOULDN’T YOU HOPE they break up anything through intelegence/spying BEFORE it happened? OK, so tell us all the reason ‘sniffing’ of islamists is not a NZ security ‘alarm’. You OK with the fact that Muslim terrorists are in NZ and indeed dealing with Maori fringe fanatics/fundalamentalists also?….I’m waiting Kea

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  46. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    David Garrett, around the world Islam has become a rallying point for the likes of Tama Iti. It has been used for political purposes and a counter to perceived Western hegemony.

    It is a very real threat, though I suspect most Kiwis will think “it would not happen here, we are not like that”.

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  47. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    dime, selling Islam to Maori would be incredibly easy. It works best with tribal & communal societies, like Maori tend to be. They are natural born Muslims for a variety of reasons & would make great soldiers of Allah !

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  48. KapitiCoast (103 comments) says:

    @ DIME…not hilarious at all, in fact Maori are a natural fit to Islam/Koran…breed like fuck and drain the economy, NZ is the easiest ‘conquest’ they will have!

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  49. KapitiCoast (103 comments) says:

    OK DG, i bow to your profession…I know you know more than I do…in legality, either way…a fucken shit defence!

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  50. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    KapitiCoast, don’t forget to turn off the CAPSLOCK before you get back to your home work from the Special Ed school.

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  51. KapitiCoast (103 comments) says:

    caps lock is on or off Kea (see what i did there with your name), can you answer my post?…or is that the best you have, complianing about caps?

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  52. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    i stand by my original statement – hilarious!

    how much of the koran will they have to learn? that might be whats holding them back. hell, they are so lazy they are forgetting to how to speak their own language “its whiteys fault, we need more funding” haha

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  53. Viking2 (10,723 comments) says:

    Well kea you do have short memories. We have leading politicans and lawyers and so on the have been oversea’s and trained with various organisations. what’s new.

    Longknives,
    So I’m guessing you actively support Iti and his ‘Bros’ V2?

    How the fuck does your deluded mind arrive at that conclusion?

    I have no time for Iti and could tell you a story (which I won’t ) that justifies him being locked up. Unfortunately it was never able to be prosecuted. Iti doesn’t represent Tuhoe, he just happens to be one.
    One of the acceptances I’ve noticed with Maori is that they tend to live and let live, even when they don’t like nor agree with anothers actions etc. So Iti remains in their midst.

    Longknives you really are a fuckwit. My employee wasn’t mixed up in this he was caught in the crap and poor intelligence by over egoed cops. They didn’t even ask the local cops they just barged in form Wellingtown playing Rambo’s.

    And just to put you right ,if you read what I said I agreed that there were goings on that needed to be checked and people held to account. What I disagreed with was the rambo style tactics used on a small group of people on the basis they all lived in the same space and the police command assuming that anything justified breaking the Law (as the IPCC pointed out).
    One should also point out that I was entirley justified in that missgiving and they went on to repeat the same sorts of tatics and errors in the case of dot.com, again, breaking the law of the land in doing so. In this case based on a false premise of a crime that the FBI manufactured to suit commercial doners to the political system.
    I have no doubt you won’t agree but that’s a question for your level of intelligence and your ability to ascertain what’s right and wrong when on the basis of an individuals freedom and rights.

    In the dot com case there is an apparent lack of commercial understanding and thought by the police who as it turns out actually know jack shit about running a business. (a bit like school teachers if you like.)

    KapitiCoast.
    You are an irrational bigotted racist with nothing intelligent to say. You spout vile about things you don’t even know about.
    Go learn some history, much of it written by early Europeans. Plenty there if you take the time.

    In fact probably a good place to start would be your own family and their assent from the dark ages. Always an enlightening discovery. Given that you are in all likely hood about 19 and have a loud mouth maybe one day you might start to learn.

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  54. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    The other interesting angle to me is media bias. 3 News was all over this,”damning report” etc etc. Their sympathies are with the Maori radicals and against the police.

    Family First being specifically targeted by the charities commission because they are for traditional marriage is just not a story. The government commission is specifically discriminating against a conservative group. However the liberal 3 news doesn’t see that as an interesting story.

    Now in the USA the IRS targeting conservative groups is seen as newsworthy. But here in NZ we have such a leftist media that the government can get away with anything as long as their targets are organisations to the right of the political or social spectrum.

    To be newsworthy to our lame stream media you have to be discriminated against and be an “approved victim”. Maori radicals are approved victims, Christian conservatives are not.

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  55. KapitiCoast (103 comments) says:

    Kea, agreed with your 3:58 & 4:53post, guess we disagree from then…tis the wonders of blog posting eh?…all good

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  56. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Viking2, so what do we not agree on ?

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  57. Viking2 (10,723 comments) says:

    Kea (4,475) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 6:52 pm

    dime, selling Islam to Maori would be incredibly easy. It works best with tribal & communal societies, like Maori tend to be. They are natural born Muslims for a variety of reasons & would make great soldiers of Allah !
    ===================
    Have you been drinking all day Kea.

    you are not your rational self at all.

    Maori are well entrenched in various churches, which is something you would know I would have thought.

    Obviously you are not that observant then.

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  58. Viking2 (10,723 comments) says:

    Scott (1,375) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    Maori radicals are approved victims, Christian conservatives are not.
    ==================
    First you need to define a Maori radical and that’s not just someone who has a different point of view to you.
    Second, is it not possible that some or many of those Christian Conservatives can also be Maori given that many Maori belong to various Christian Churches?

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  59. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Viking2,

    “Maori are well entrenched in various churches, which is something you would know I would have thought.”

    Yes indeed they are. Yet another reason they may be attracted away from the settlers religion to another, while keeping the same God.

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  60. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Playing parrot chess v2
    :lol:

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  61. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    KapitiCoast (27) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 7:13 pm
    Kea, agreed with your 3:58 & 4:53post, guess we disagree from then…tis the wonders of blog posting eh?…all good

    Yeah I see that. Why did you suddenly go mental ? A fight with the missus perhaps ? I hope things are better now ;)

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  62. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    I would define a moari radical as one who places moari needs above all others.
    To the point of knowing doing illegal acts or asserting moari authority should be equal to the crowns

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  63. Nostalgia-NZ (4,688 comments) says:

    Hard for some to comprehend V2. There’s still no explanation for the ‘molotov cocktails and firearms, and what they were ”doing” in the bush. You just need to connect that to the children and old people that got ‘turned over.’ Surely that can’t be too difficult. Or more simply Iti is an a…hole and therefore everything carried out by the police in their anti terrorist operation that they couldn’t prove in Court is justified. Keep up.

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  64. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    Viking 2- Maori radicals are the Urewera bunch that basically believe in a separate Maori nation. Also the desire to take up arms against the government is generally seen as radical.

    Regarding Christian conservatives you know what I mean. Race is not relevant. Brian Tamaki is hated by 3 news and John Campbell because he doesn’t have the approved liberal views. Christian Maoris involved in Hikoi of Hope get much better media coverage. The essence of my argument is not race but political and social views. If you are of the left the media will love you. If you are of the right and/or Christian and conservative then you are a legitimate target.

    Family First being discriminated against by the Charities Commission is a big story. Imagine if a gay advocacy group was not granted charitable status because their views were deemed not to be in the public interest? There would be outrage by the media. But because family first stick up for traditional marriage then the media couldn’t care less about them.

    The Urewera group has had very sympathetic coverage in my view. But if the police raided Brian Tamaki then 3 news would be massively unconcerned.

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  65. Nostalgia-NZ (4,688 comments) says:

    ‘Griff (4,907) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 7:32 pm
    I would define a moari radical as one who places moari needs above all others.
    To the point of knowing doing illegal acts or asserting moari authority should be equal to the crowns’

    Spot on Griff, how would you define a child on the way to school?

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  66. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    Poor sad conservatives.
    all is not lost you have redbaiter .

    :lol:

    Bishop lordmayor
    and his black suits
    how’s the lords town going?

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  67. nasska (9,526 comments) says:

    …..”how would you define a child on the way to school”….

    If I was one of Iti’s bunch then I could define such a child as an easy, safe way to move illegal arms or ammunition around.

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  68. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    nasska, but but but … THINK OF THE CHILDREN !!!!

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  69. nasska (9,526 comments) says:

    You’re on to it. :)

    https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/lovejoy.png?w=AADBtCtS3V0hfNdlxdLErEWgqHzizSBknOovYMFx-Bvteg&sjid=36

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  70. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    How would you define a small close knit community that knowingly had this gunpowder plot brewing
    I know they did because I was aware of the training going on in burnt dick land

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  71. Viking2 (10,723 comments) says:

    What’s the Time, Mr Wolf?
    The IPCA report on Police conduct over the Tuhoe Terror Raids has been released. Even by it’s blinkered terms of reference, it is clear the Police completely cocked up the operation from go to woe.

    The report fails to illuminate the pivot that convinced the Police to stop eavesdropping and start arresting people. Logistical considerations for the massive raid seemed to have played a large role. Maybe they thought they’d get lucky with their many fishing licences. The unclear, non-present danger is palpable.
    http://gonzofreakpower.blogspot.co.nz/2013/05/whats-time-mr-wolf.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+GonzoFreakpowerBrainsTrust+%28goNZo+Freakpower+Brains+Trust%29

    Good summary of the situation.

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  72. Nostalgia-NZ (4,688 comments) says:

    ‘nasska (6,374) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 7:47 pm
    …..”how would you define a child on the way to school”….

    If I was one of Iti’s bunch then I could define such a child as an easy, safe way to move illegal arms or ammunition around.’

    Really, children moving firearms around on buses. What a master plan. Why not make it rocket launches in their lunch bags?
    The big problem is that the surveillance showed a few nutters out in the bush, how that conflates to children taking firearms or ammunition to school is the work of a bewildered mind. Do you think they were going to take the sandpit hostage?

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  73. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    What a master plan. Why not make it rocket launches in their lunch bags?

    I see Nostalgia’s point. They should have stopped the bus with a rocket launcher. The Police put themselves and the public at risk with their casual attitude.

    In the US Tama Iti would have presented a firearm to the Police and they would have been forced to shoot him. Would have saved the tax payer a fortune.

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  74. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    A Fairfax County woman was arrested after federal agents said she used a baby seat to try to smuggle five guns onto an international flight.

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/feds-virginia-woman-used-baby-seat-to-try-to-smuggle-guns-onto-plane/article/2524246

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  75. nasska (9,526 comments) says:

    Nostalgia

    The police would have been aware that their intelligence was patchy & would have had little idea whether their raid was expected. As such it would have occurred to them that Iti’s mob could have a backup plan of moving weaponry out of the likely search area if/when the police raided.

    I’m not suggesting AK47′s in the pencil cases…..probably a couple of bags in the back of the bus that one of the bros would pick up later after the kids were dropped off at school.

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  76. Nostalgia-NZ (4,688 comments) says:

    What about hand grenades in oranges? Anything was possible after you saw the footage of the girls playing ‘bush fairies.’ Tama on top sometimes, talking about what they would do if they ever got dry gumboots and the ‘dipomatic arm’ of one his succinct and pointed speeches or demands was ignored. It could have been exploded sandpits all the way through the ranges.

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  77. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    TSA officers X-rayed a carry-on bag and discovered a disassembled handgun and ammo inside of child’s Mickey Mouse toy. CNN reports that the bag belonged to a man who was traveling with his four-year-old son,

    http://www.smartertravel.com/blogs/today-in-travel/weekly-weird-babies-on-the-no-fly-list-and-smuggling-guns.html?id=11312000

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  78. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Hamas is training Palestinian schoolboys to use assault-style weapons and battle Israel. …Posted on April 5, the video shows a mock Israeli military post erected in a school playground, where Palestinian militants enact a mock battle during which a faux Israeli soldier is killed and another captured. A shoulder-held rocket launcher is then fired at the military post, the force of the blast leaving only a smoking metal frame and a billowing Israeli flag.

    http://www.thetower.org/hamas-our-children-love-martyrdom/

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  79. Griff (6,263 comments) says:

    You really do live in a sheltered world
    small isolated communitys in New Zealand
    all related with half the young bucks involved
    The police had no choice
    close the area down
    sort the wheat from the chaff

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  80. Nostalgia-NZ (4,688 comments) says:

    ‘nasska (6,375) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 8:25 pm
    Nostalgia

    The police would have been aware that their intelligence was patchy & would have had little idea whether their raid was expected. As such it would have occurred to them that Iti’s mob could have a backup plan of moving weaponry out of the likely search area if/when the police raided.

    I’m not suggesting AK47′s in the pencil cases…..probably a couple of bags in the back of the bus that one of the bros would pick up later after the kids were dropped off at school.’

    I could accept that if there was imminent and present danger gathered in the ‘intelligence’ operation, however there wasn’t. That’s why the raids look like something from the 1860s. It’s also the reason why the Government appears to be acting on the ‘c’ advice so as to avoid litigation – an intelligent choice to my mind. Settling in the present, before the next election if your counting unhatched eggs as chickens already.

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  81. nasska (9,526 comments) says:

    Nostalgia

    The police were aware that there were giant holes in their intelligence but when you have recordings of head cases talking assassinations while training with incendaries & firearms it probably pays to be cautious. There’s no way that a huge police raid in the heart of Tuhoe country is going to be much of a surprise when they arrive. In the country info moves fast & direct.

    I agree that the Government are probably handling this reasonably well.

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  82. Yoza (1,348 comments) says:

    The New Zealand Police, the SIS and the GCSB need to be congratulated for doing more to promote solidarity with political dissenters throughout New Zealand than any activist organisation has managed since the 81′ Springbok tour and the US nuclear warship visits.

    In all honesty, I don’t think Tame Iti and company could have wished for a better outcome. The sheer arrogant stupidity of New Zealand’s security apparatus is the New Zealand dissenters greatest asset.

    Keep it up guys. The more ‘terrorists’ you idiots invent to smash the greater the public backlash.

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  83. Yoza (1,348 comments) says:

    Kea (4,487) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 8:29 pm
    “TSA officers X-rayed a carry-on bag and discovered a disassembled handgun and ammo inside of child’s Mickey Mouse toy. CNN reports that the bag belonged to a man who was traveling with his four-year-old son, …”

    Very selective cut and paste. From the same story: ” The gun was confiscated and the duo was allowed to fly, while the TSA was probably excited to have a justification for continuing to screen children.” …and… “Speaking of screening children, an 18-month-old girl was kicked off a JetBlue flight because her name is on the no-fly list… a couple who was flying with their daughter from Ft. Lauderdale claims that they were pulled off their flight and told that their child’s name was on a no-fly list. After half an hour, the family was told they could re-board the plane, but they refused. The family, who asked to remain anonymous, claims that they were targeted because of their ethnicity.”

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  84. Nostalgia-NZ (4,688 comments) says:

    ‘I agree that the Government are probably handling this reasonably well.’

    They are nasska, very well.

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  85. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Yoza, do you have a point ?

    Children are used as both combatants, and for smuggling guns, all over the world. It is a simple fact. One you may not grasp unless someone close to you gets their face shot off by a kid with an AK47.

    The idea that a kids “feelings” should be put ahead of serious security issues is absurd. Get your head sorted and stop your craven appeal to emotion. I am not buying it.

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  86. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    NBR-http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/terrorism-raids-justified-urewera-bus-search-did-not-happen-ja-140465

    “Terrorism raids justified – Urewera bus search did not happen
    Its condemnation of the bus claim is a massive blow to the credibility of complainers and anti-police media who wilfully promoted unverified allegations to show police in the worst light.”

    This tactic of making things up that didn’t happen or exaggerating things that did happen has been a trademark of the treaty industry for years. At least the more recent events are easier to disprove.
    We are well past the time where this treaty gravy train needs to be derailed. Time for those claiming Maori ancestry to move on and join the rest of us as New Zealanders first and foremost and learn to appreciate the advantages they have received from being part of a modern society.

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  87. Johnboy (13,403 comments) says:

    When the going gets tough in Tuhoeville give them a SWAT! :)

    http://www.buttecounty.net/SheriffCoroner/SWAT%20Team.aspx

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  88. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    These boys know how to deal with trouble makers. Warning this footage contains Gingas

    Youtube won’t run this one. Probably because of the Gingas !

    http://vimeo.com/11219730

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  89. Yoza (1,348 comments) says:

    Kea (4,491) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 9:21 pm
    “Yoza, do you have a point ?

    Children are used as both combatants, and for smuggling guns,…”

    Kea (4,491) Says:
    May 22nd, 2013 at 2:18 pm: “I think your criminal mate should have been shot in the guts and left to bleed out on the road and the worthless brats shot in the face.”

    There really is no way of escaping the lunacy of your first contribution to this thread.

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  90. spaghetti (1 comment) says:

    wow fascinating reading the rabid racist comments.things obviously havent moved on from the 1800s

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  91. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Yoza, well did you get the point ?

    You have spent your time trying to minimise the sort of thing that leads to that scenario described in my first contribution. So do not run for the moral high ground.

    But you only raised that to distract from you being called out on your own silly comment you made much latter. Now your reduced to trawling around for off topic contributions. Your so transparent.

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  92. Yoza (1,348 comments) says:

    I think its time to take your meds and have a little lie down

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  93. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    Yoza, you are the one who claimed he was unable to escape lunacy. I am worried about you :)

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  94. hj (5,693 comments) says:

    The decision may have differed if the Terrorism Suppression Act had been framed differently to suit domestic threats.

    Sixteen people – including Tuhoe activist Tame Iti – were facing possible terrorism charges after they were arrested in police raids relating to suspected armed training camps in the Ureweras.

    It was the first time the act had been used, and Dr Collins described it as “unnecessarily complex, incoherent, and as a result almost impossible to apply to the domestic circumstances observed by the police in this case.”

    He said difficulties in applying the Terrorism Suppression Act, rather than lack of evidence, were a “very significant factor” in his decision.

    Some of those arrested “could on one view of it have possibly come close to meeting criteria under the act” and if police presented more evidence he could review his decision.

    Dr Collins said his decision was not intended as a criticism of the police, who he said had “a sufficient and proper basis” for investigating the case under the act and referring to him to assess.

    Attorney-General Michael Cullen yesterday agreed to Dr Collins’ recommendation to refer the act to the Law Commission for a review.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/government/news/article.cfm?c_id=49&objectid=10474962

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  95. hj (5,693 comments) says:

    Green MP David Clendon;

    “He believed racial discrimination played a part on the abuse of rights and illegal detention of innocent people. ”
    ………………………………..

    Keith Locke : “I would feel more comfortable in the company of those arrested in the raids than I would among some of my fellow MP’s in Parliament”.* http://www.youtube.com/v/lyCA_h3pkgk

    What the bugs revealed

    The Dominion Post | Wednesday, 14 November 2007

    Suspect tells another it would be good to kill Pakeha to get trainees used to killing. Also suggests making their own tracer ammunition and using tungsten projectiles to go through a “cop vest” and through “his f…… mate”.

    Bug in vehicle, recorded April 6, 2007.

    “Get someone to assassinate the prime minister, the new one, next year’s one. Just been in office five days, bang … Yeah. John Key … just drop a bomb … Just wait till he visits somewhere and just blow them … They won’t even find you.”

    Two suspects in bugged vehicle, August 17, 2007.

    “They want to start blowing shit up. You know, they want to blow up power plants, gas plants, Telecom, petrol f…… places and shit like that.”

    Two suspects in bugged vehicle, June 23, 2007.

    “You know like the IRA in England … it’s gonna happen here … I’m ready to die, mate. I’m gonna hurt this country, I’ve had a gutsful … I wanna leave this planet making sure that I’ve done a f…… huge amount of harm to this country.”

    Suspect recorded on bugged phone, May 26, 2006.

    “It’d have to be a, some sort of f……, sudden f……, because what it’ll do, it’ll come down on the thinking of the people, they’ll think it’s al Qaeda … It’s gotta be sudden and it’s gotta be brutal.”

    Other suspect says: “Don’t piss around with cities or doing the bush thing … just go to Parliament.”

    Two suspects in bugged vehicle, August 17, 2007.

    “I heard you talking about the napalm shit.”

    Response from unknown man: “I’ll make some and bring some next time round, show everyone how to make it.”

    Conversation in bugged vehicle, September 16, 2007.

    “No, I’m teaming up with the Maoris, we have to … I’ll come and see ya, I can’t f…… take the white man on without the c…s … I’m declaring war on this country.”

    Bugged cellphone, May 22, 2007.
    etc etc.
    http://www.webcitation.org/5TKxD2fdq

    Kerry Tankard will be well known to some readers.

    She is a Wellington based anarchist, connected to the 128 Abel Smith Street crowd. She also worked with three of the “Urewera 17″ Simon/Rongomai Bailey, Emily Bailey and Marama Mayrick, on the anarchist/Green Party supported radical environmentalist film Kotahi Ao.

    Tankard, is also a Green Party activist and often posts on Green Forum under the name Katie.

    She posted this on Green Forum, the day after the October 15th anti terror raids.

    Location: Aro Valley, Wellington

    Activist arrests in Wellington Posted: 16 Oct 2007 21:36

    In the interests of supporting those who have been arrested, discussions were held last night at 128 Able Smith St.

    I am re-posting a statement verbatim from Indymedia Collective, as a response to those who are concerned or confused about what is being said in media and local gossip.

    Quote:

    This morning I opened the herald to see what the bullshit the media were spinning about the raids and saw a comment allegedly from a flatmate of one of the activists arrested yesterday in Auckland.

    I thought it would be obvious not to comment to the media but apparently not.

    I guess I just want to remind people not to talk amongst themselves and speculate and especially do not talk to the media. They are not your friends and they will use you to get the inside scoop.

    This was obvious in another article I got forwarded this morning from Bomber’s blog. He was sniffing around last night at Unite and had cornered some less experienced activists and was asking them what was going on…

    As someone quite rightly put it last night….’if not one talks, everyone walks’.

    It is not gossip it is fucken serious and some of our comrades are facing a long time behind bars, it would be good if people could remember that.

    Now is an important time to remember AND PRACTISE those good old rules about security culture and solidarity!

    The media are easy to ignore however the filth is a different story and it is likely that they will want to ‘talk’ to some people. If you are concerned about this and don’t know what your rights are etc… please seek the advise of an experienced activist who you TRUST. Maybe we need to have a workshop around this sometime in the next few days so that everyone is confident.

    Love and solidarity!

    Please respect the very serious position that the arrests have put some of our very dear friends in.

    We have already seen a former policeman, Detective John Dewar, convicted for perverting the course of justice in the Shipton/Schollum/Rickards case; we know they lie.

    The case at hand is under District Court strictures, there are suppression orders in place. We would prefer activists not to be branded as terrorists, in the face of Police PR and dubiously executed search warrants, and media clutching at straws to create a “good story”.

    To all who have offered support, thanks on behalf of activists who do not have access to these forums. A legal fund has been started, and practical support for the arrestees on remand has begun.

    Kerry Tankard

    (Katie)

    Member
    http://newzeal.blogspot.com/2007/12/evidence-of-green-partyanarchist.html

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  96. hj (5,693 comments) says:

    Mary Wilson’s interviewing sounds a bit close, like husband and wife.. sort of an emotional involvement in the issue? It would fit for a RadioNZ hard liner?
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2555992/police-commissioner-on-the-ipca-report-on-the-urewera-raids.asx

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  97. hj (5,693 comments) says:

    Valerie Morse says: “I don’t have to prove my innocence (as in what I was or wasn’t doing with a molotov cocktail) because it is over to the police to prove my guilt. They can’t because they collected the evidence illegally”! Seeeeeee!!??
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2499076/more-court-documents-on-raids-case-released.asx

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  98. Kea (10,451 comments) says:

    hj @ 12:08

    As I read your post I was listening to Radio NZ talking about the raids. In that version the police were the offenders! Incredible.

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  99. David Garrett (5,134 comments) says:

    Mary Wilson is the worst – in the sense of bias – interviewer on Radio NZ. She is why most Nat Cabinet Ministers won’t go on what they call “Red Radio”: talking over the top of interviewees; rudeness, repeating a question three or more times, even when an perfectly adequate answer has been given “but why wont you…” etc…

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  100. Scott (1,614 comments) says:

    David Garrett – I totally understand your comments about the bias on radio New Zealand. Just remind me – why do we tax payers fund them again?

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  101. Paulus (2,296 comments) says:

    Show me te Money !!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  102. Tauhei Notts (1,510 comments) says:

    This morning I heard how police had trashed houses in Taneatua.
    Have any of you been to Taneatua? It is best described as Tane A fucken Tua.
    It is the pits. The houses would have been trashed by the occupants several years before the police got there!

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  103. flipper (3,270 comments) says:

    “David Garrett (3,804) Says:
    May 23rd, 2013 at 8:40 am
    Mary Wilson is the worst – in the sense of bias – interviewer on Radio NZ. She is why most Nat Cabinet Ministers won’t go on what they call “Red Radio”: talking over the top of interviewees; rudeness, repeating a question three or more times, even when an perfectly adequate answer has been given “but why wont you…” etc… ”

    Somewhat late, and somewhat to my surprise, I find myself in TOTAL agreement with the “May 2013″ version of David G. :)

    Say, is not Wilson (or is it Ryan?) the live in partner of a senior female Labour MP who commutes from Nelson?
    If I am wrong, I withdraw and apologise.

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