Norman challenged for Greens co-leadership

November 27th, 2013 at 9:24 am by David Farrar

NewstalkZB reports:

Green Party member is intending to challenge Dr for the party’s co-leadership.

Mr Hay, who was the Green Party’s candidate for Epsom at the last election and is currently ranked number 16 on the party’s list, claims the party needs to be ‘putting its A team forward’.

“Russel has been doing a great job for the Green Party, but he has been co-leader for six years now,” he says.

“While the party has grown in stature and credibility during Russel’s tenure, we have new people in caucus, and there’s fresh new talent among the party membership.”

Mr Hay says he is putting himself forward with a plan to build the party’s base in Auckland, focus on environmental and economic sustainability and lift the party’s performance.

The statement from David Hay is here. He says:

“I think one of the Party co-leaders should be based in Auckland, be well-informed on Auckland issues, and take a hands-on role in building the party’s Auckland base.” 

“The Green Party has under-performed at winning votes in Auckland, and we need to turn that around. Only three members of the Green Party’s 14 MPs are based in Auckland. We currently lack sufficient presence here, in New Zealand’s largest city, where a third of the population live.”

The election will be at the conference in June 2014.

This is the first time an incumbent co-leader has been challenged, and that is significant. There is obvious some discontent, but what is not known is how extensive it is. Is it an Auckland vs the rest issue?

What will be interesting to observe is where the MPs stand. Will they all back Norman or will they consult with their electorates and vote in accordance with their wishes?

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46 Responses to “Norman challenged for Greens co-leadership”

  1. alloytoo (542 comments) says:

    If Wussel is rolled can JK add it to his opposition leader headcount?

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  2. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Gutless Norman may take his flag and head back to Australia, taking his obese kraut benefactor with him.

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  3. skyblue (210 comments) says:

    All David Hay needs to do is have a sex change and he can campaign for the female co-leader role.

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  4. Huevon (222 comments) says:

    @skyblue. That is discrimination!!! If David Hay chooses to identify as a woman, he/she should be able to contest for the female co-leader role. This is the Green party we’re talking about.

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  5. Manolo (13,755 comments) says:

    Luddites MPs are obsequious and servile to comrade Norman, so expect them to stick to the ginga.

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  6. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    Even my first glance at that article and seeing his photo was enough to put me off with that big try hard tiki greenstone thing

    The next thing that really made me laugh and angry is his work bio. A life long public sector cretin
    http://www.sophocrat.co.nz/david-hay

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  7. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    Hay:

    “At this stage, I’m testing to see whether there is support within the party for change.”

    “Green Party leadership positions are decided by a vote of the delegates at the Annual General Meeting. This will be held on Queens Birthday weekend, 31 May to 2 June 2014, in Wellington.”

    It could signal genuine concern within the Greens – or it could be a cunning publicity stunt leading into the election, where Greens can show support for Norman while emphasising a commitment to Auckland.

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  8. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    I think if Norman goes id miss him compared to this Davids great quote:
    “If we are going to seriously tackle the big problems like climate change and transitioning to a zero-carbon economy then we need to be working faster, smarter and with a clearer focus.”

    I bet those geeks out on the yacht have group orgys sparked by such empty of practicality Green political statements

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  9. Steve Wrathall (284 comments) says:

    “consult with their electorates …”? They have none.

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  10. duggledog (1,555 comments) says:

    Underperformed at winning votes in Auckland??

    The fact the Greens got more than a hundred Auckland voters is, by itself, an amazing achievement given the party’s policies, and list of things they want banned, is bordering on psychopathic.

    Poor Russell. How does a peacenik fight another peacenik? Dance-off!!

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  11. dubya (235 comments) says:

    Re: Mr Hay’s comments about the Greens not performing so well in Auckland – as a reluctant former Wellingtonian and now a happily ensconced Aucklander, I can see why. Aucklanders like the fact that they have an excellent economy, and can see through the Luddite enterprise killing bullshit (apologies for sounding like Manolo) that the Greens propagate.
    That said, good luck to Mr Hay – he already scores points for not being a ‘doctor’.

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  12. OTGO (549 comments) says:

    Who gives a shit? I mean really? Who give a flying fuck who or how many leaders these bunch of nut jobs have? They are on the fringes of politics and it constantly amazes me how they mobilise so many dopers on election day to vote for them.

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  13. BeeJay (72 comments) says:

    I thought so!!!! Most of us ordinary kiwis can’t stand him!! And neither can his own Party now by the look of it. You just have to see how he greased his way into the Green Party co-leadership to replace Rod Donald, who was a genuine guy whose politics I didnt believe in, but I certainly respected the man – so, definite signs of unrest in the camp! The sooner he packs his bags and goes back to join his commie mates in Brisbane the better. Green Australian wanker!

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  14. labrator (1,850 comments) says:

    The undermining of Norman has begun and from within no less. I wonder if Labour is involved? I couldn’t ever see Norman working with Cunliffe in any productive way so I wonder if the word has been put out to Hay that to form a government the Greens need a change in leader.

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  15. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    Dubya.
    Yeah thats a a good point. Im ex wellington too and I see the ever widening gulf between Wellington and Auckland due to the many luddities that hang out in public sector buildings down there.
    Its a beautiful city but could be so much better if not for all the anti development Bridage there especially that nutcase Green Mayor thats being voted in twice.

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  16. Cunningham (844 comments) says:

    The Greens leadership is truly horrid. Although I didn’t agree with J Fitzsimmons at least she was a likeable lady. Norman and Turei are just so negative and bitter. I wouldn’t want those 2 representing anything I was a part of that’s for sure.

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  17. George Patton (349 comments) says:

    David Hay (not the former Auckland deputy Mayor), is an intellectual moderate with a habit of thinking about public policy before pronouncing on it. Probably unsuitable then.

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  18. Ross12 (1,425 comments) says:

    While this talk of “representing Auckland” may have a liitle bit truth in it, I think it is cover for something more significant.
    That is simply, the word is out that Norman has become a liability for the Greens. Among other places this could be coming from some in the Labour Party.

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  19. duggledog (1,555 comments) says:

    Labrator

    Please don’t use the word ‘undermining’. You know it upsets them

    BeeJay

    Re Rod Donald – I agree, this was a man who walked the walk and although cursed with being ginger I kind of liked him the way you liked Wal’s neighbour in Footrot Flats – the one who was kind to animals.

    However Rod was the one who, if my memory serves me correctly, drove the MMP bandwagon, as it was the only way the Greens and other minor parties would be able to have any influence on public policy. I never liked the idea of MMP, still don’t.

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  20. labrator (1,850 comments) says:

    @duggledog You’re right, I should’ve said they’re composting him.

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  21. Manolo (13,755 comments) says:

    @dubya: I couldn’t have said it that any better, and for a moment I thought I had written that sentence. :-)

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  22. Huevon (222 comments) says:

    People like Rod Donald, Jeanette Fitzsimmons et al. earned their stripes toiling in the organic fields, defending their weed plots from police oppression, and generally tripping the light fantastic in all its dirty, sweaty, 1970s glory. Rod Donald, God rest his soul, wore those braces cos dammit a man’s gotta hold up his ill-fitting homemade hemp trousers somehow.

    David Hay is “second generation” greenie. Your run-of-the-mill smarmy deodourant-wearing middle class liberal, his ego gouging on the empty platitudes of politically-correct opinions, comfortably ensconced in a renovated inner city villa with a compost bin, the complete collection of John Pilger, and the obligatory gay neighbours and their brood of oddly-confused adopted children. No activist was he…when did he spend his years on the communal farm? when does he invoke the earth-goddess? when did he hold hands with us and dance in a circle? Does he even know what dungarees are? The old guard won’t recognise this man.

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  23. BeeJay (72 comments) says:

    Duggledog – you are right re Rod Donald & MMP! I don’t support MMP because of the crap politicians it has delivered into our parliamentary system, but if Rod D hadn’t been involved there were plenty of like-minded people who supported the concept. BTW – I voted against it! I can even remember where I was at the time, which would be a first for me in an election year!! Must have been the depression following the results!

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  24. RRM (9,917 comments) says:

    DPF:
    Is it an Auckland vs the rest issue?

    I’m hoping it’s more a “smart people vs Russell Norman” issue… hope springs eternally. ;-)

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  25. duggledog (1,555 comments) says:

    Huevon

    You should be a writer. “Rod Donald, God rest his soul, wore those braces cos dammit a man’s gotta hold up his ill-fitting homemade hemp trousers somehow”. That is gold (sorry – gold is verboeten, but I don’t know what other word to use)

    I’d like to bet Hay, and a lot of these so called inner city Greenies wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a matai and a miro. Or know how to skin a rabbit. Or where to find paua.

    Someone needs to call some of them on their green credentials. It would be hilarious. Being green doesn’t mean driving a shitty Prius and wearing that symbol of the tragic, the gigantic pounamu carving. When you are white and pasty with soft hands.

    What’s the bet Hay has got a tribal armband hidden under that shirt from the late 1990s

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  26. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (888 comments) says:

    Absolutely nothing will happen. Norman knows he will be Deputy PM and Finance Minister come November 2014. Like hell, he will roll over now. Move on guys, nothing here….

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  27. Simon (721 comments) says:

    Comrades I am calling out David Hay! Unless you eat food fertilized with your own shit you are nothing but a phony.

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  28. alwyn (424 comments) says:

    I suspect that the challenge is being set up by Turei and the feminist MPs that the Green Party has at the moment.
    Officially the party has co-leaders but Turei has been, to the public, completely overshadowed by Norman. I suspect that if you asked a member of the public who the Green party leader was nearly everyone would say Russel Norman. Only the political tragics would add Turei into the mix.
    This is an attempt by the woman MPs to try and recover their power by trying to get a total nonentity, non-MP into the job so that Meteria reigns unchallenged. This is the Green version of BBQ at Phil’s place.

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  29. Richard Hurst (857 comments) says:

    Auckland? Hmmmm.. So basically the guy is saying no one outside the main urban centers in their right mind will vote for the Greens. All the people in Wellington who are going to potentially vote Green already have so the Greens only option for growing their vote is urban Auckland. Thus making the Greens an Auckland based party in theory.
    Reminds me of the self limiting retarded thinking behind the defunked South Island Party or Ross Merants stillborn rural conservative party.
    Have the Greens ever thought perhaps banning things, shutting down mining, oil drilling, dairy farming etc, high tax , mass devaluing of the currency and practicing Muldoon style command and control of the economy is not very appealing to voters and for that matter anyone with an IQ above 60?

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  30. greenjacket (465 comments) says:

    Some years ago, Nandor Tanczos and Russell Norman contested the Green co-leadership. Nandor – the polar opposite of Russell Norman in his approach to politics – lost, and soon after left politics. (Despite Nandor’s public persona, seeing him at work behind the scenes on one issue I was surprised to find him highly intelligent, respectful, conciliatory and very effective). I always thought this was a big mistake by the Greens tp pick Russell Norman, a hardline Aussie communist. I suspect some Greens may be having “buyer’s remorse”.

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  31. kiwi in america (2,449 comments) says:

    Duggledog 9.51am
    Don’t you mean a Morris dance off!!

    I suspect that Norman’s legendary arrogance has probably pissed off some inside the Green Party as he has outsiders. Maybe his tone deaf global warming rant to Parliament hijacking bipartisan support for Typhoon Haiyan victims was a bridge too far for some of the saner Greens.

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  32. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    The usual reservations about online polls apply but this from Stuff is interesting (on low numbers):

    Should Russel Norman remain as Greens co-leader?
    Yes – he’s dong a good job 304 votes, 43.2%
    No – it’s time for new blood 400 votes, 56.8%

    It will only be Green Party members who decide (if the challenge goes that far) but they will be aware they have to try and appeal to voters outside the party.

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  33. backster (2,171 comments) says:

    I think Conference should resolve this issue the pacific way. Mr Hay should be invited to join Russell and the fat maori lady to form a leadership troika.

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  34. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    David Hay is typical of leeches of the left, sucking on ratepayers’ troughs and kicking them in the guts at the same time. Why is a person with his treasonous doctrine in a position such as he is?

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  35. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Seriously, the vanity of this guy takes some beating; quoting Machiavelli to describe his own noble, informed and selfless bravery:

    It ought to be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well under the new. This coolness arises partly from fear of the opponents, who have the laws on their side, and partly from the incredulity of men, who do not readily believe in new things until they have had a long experience of them.

    http://www.sophocrat.co.nz/david-hay/seriously-green

    I mean. Arsehole.

    What we have here is just another smarter-than-everyone-else central planner who’s never had a real job in his fucking life.

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  36. Yogibear (366 comments) says:

    Meh – why debate this at all – the current crop of Green Party deadbeats are as bad as each other.

    Matthew Hooton put a great call to arms this week in his oped against Greenpace’s activities. The mainstream green issues that Kiwis in general care about have been hijacked by a bunch of extremists who are mentally ill-equipped to to form any kind of stable government where they hold anything other than a couple of token portfolios.

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  37. Changeiscoming (189 comments) says:

    Gosh the left certianly know how to score own goals.

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  38. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    I hate the cops but I love the Greens. The maniacal part of me hopes that the Anadarco drill pipe blows and that, like the cops and the Arthur Thomas case, will destroy the credibility of the pro consume at any cost brigade forever.

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  39. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    This seems screwy:

    Mr Hay says his challenge is dependent on his ranking within the party. He says if he is outside the top four when the party list is released early next year, he will drop his leadership bid.

    A formal leadership challenge requires the signatures of five members. Mr Hay says while he has adequate support, he has not yet obtained the signatures – but will if he is promoted up the party rankings.

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Leadership-challenge-not-about-Norman/tabid/423/articleID/323061/Default.aspx

    That sounds very odd. “Promote me or else”? An easy out for the party? Just a bit of opportunist self promoting?

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  40. emmess (1,428 comments) says:

    He says if he is outside the top four when the party list is released early next year, he will drop his leadership bid.

    How bizarre, isn’t that don’t promote or else?
    Not just that, but nothing the guy says seems to make sense.
    And by that I mean it’s not just the usual Greeny bullshit and lies but a complete lack of logic.

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  41. duggledog (1,555 comments) says:

    Jackinabox:

    “I hate the cops but I love the Greens. The maniacal part of me hopes that the Anadarco drill pipe blows”

    The maniacal part of me hopes you get your car stolen. Or rather, your Birkenstocks

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  42. hj (6,996 comments) says:

    Luddites
    Will a resident genius identify his/her favourite alternative to fossil fuels?

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  43. Pete George (23,559 comments) says:

    It get’s more bizarre. here is a blog post from Hay at ‘seriously Green':

    Leadership Challenge FAQs
    Q: What’s wrong with Russel’s Leadership?

    A: I’m not attacking Russel. He has been a very good co-leader: he is the de facto leader of the opposition; he has raised the Greens credibility in the economic debate; and he and Metiria have created a solid platform of credibility and competence for the Greens going into the next election.

    Q: So why challenge him?

    A: this is about the future direction of the Greens: where we go next and how we get there.

    The Green Party is weak in Auckland – only five electorates raised the party vote above the national average for the Greens, sixteen fell below. We need a strong presence of Green MPs in Auckland, including one of the co-leaders. I’m currently the highest ranked male Aucklander on the party list (except for Kennedy Graham, who is a Christchurch refugee).

    I’m also saying that the Greens need to replace the Labour Party as the party of the centre-left in New Zealand. We need to play a “big game” to move New Zealand to a zero carbon economy within a few decades.

    I’m putting that vision for the future of the party into the public spotlight for Green Party members and for voters, especially voters in Auckland, to consider. If we can’t overtake the Labour Party in Auckland, we will forever be seen as Labour’s junior partner.

    Q: What do you expect the outcome of the challenge to be?

    A: I think the most likely outcome is that Russel will retain the co-leadership, with a renewed mandate.

    If he doesn’t, then the Greens will have a different leader who will be the right person to lead the Greens into government after the next election. And that might not be me; it depends if anybody else puts their name forward.

    Whatever the outcome, Green Party members and voters can be sure that the Greens are putting the best man forward for this position.

    Q: How much support do you have within the party?

    A: I’m not sure. I kept the challenge under wraps because I didn’t want to implicate or embarrass other party members if it turned sour.

    The party is going to begin its list-ranking process in February next year, and through that I will be able to gauge the level of support for this leadership bid. If I’m moved down the party list, then I will withdraw the challenge. But if I get a high ranking (within the top 4 or 5), then I will go ahead.

    I will also be interested to see if this challenge makes a difference to Green Party support in the opinion polls. Although Russel has performed well in parliament, the polls show that the Greens have flat-lined since the last election. If the electorate indicates support for a change, then I’m sure the party will get behind me.

    Q: Is this the right time to be making a challenge, so close to the next election?

    A: The Green Party process is to elect, or re-elect, its leadership team at the Annual General Meeting, held on Queens Birthday weekend every year. That’s not my decision.

    If the list ranking process indicates I lack support, then I will withdraw the challenge. I expect to know where I am on the list some weeks before the AGM.

    In the meantime, I hope voters will be looking at the Greens with fresh interest and learning more about who we are, what we stand for, and where we are heading. Because I have great confidence in the party, I think that can only be good for us. This is exactly the right time for people to be thinking about the Greens.

    Seroiusly?

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  44. Peter (1,712 comments) says:

    Mr Hay says his challenge is dependent on his ranking within the party. He says if he is outside the top four when the party list is released early next year, he will drop his leadership bid.

    So, if they leave him exactly where he is, no leadership challenge eventuates.

    That’s his threat? Is this guy a few yachts short of the full floatilla?

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  45. wat dabney (3,756 comments) says:

    Will a resident genius identify his/her favourite alternative to fossil fuels?

    We’ll just keep using fossil fuels, thanks.

    Oil, coal and gas.

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  46. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “Birkenstocks”

    What are ya puddleduck, some sort of cop lovin gay fag?

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