NY charter schools

January 5th, 2014 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

Nina Rees at USA Today writes:

New York¹s public are upending old assumptions about urban education. And they can help even more students if New York¹s incoming mayor lets them.

Earlier this year, Stanford¹s Center for Research on Educational Outcomes (CREDO) revealed that in just one school year, the typical New York City charter school student gained about five additional months of learning in math and one additional month of learning in reading compared with students in traditional public schools.

These gains, repeated year after year, are helping to erase achievement gaps between urban and suburban students. A rigorous 2009 study from Stanford professor Caroline Hoxby found that students who attend New York City¹s charter schools from Kindergarten through 8th grade will make up 86% of the suburban-urban achievement gap in math and 66% of the gap in English.

Closing the gap in educational achievement. We can’t have that. This is so evil, that we must boycott anyone involved in such a school.

New York has roughly 70,000 students enrolled in public charter schools, and the numbers are on the rise. This school year alone, 14,000 new students in the city enrolled in charter schools ­ with the vast majority in low-income neighborhoods.

Even worse, low income students are being helped by them, and they are growing in popularity.

Remarkably, several charter schools in low-income neighborhoods are showing some of the most impressive achievement gains. For instance, while just 30% of students citywide passed New York¹s new Common Core math exam, 97% of students passed the exam at Bronx Success Academy 2. The passage rate was 80% at Leadership Prep Ocean Hill in Brownsville, a community that has suffered academic failure for generations.

But, but, but they are stealing resources from other schools. It is better for everyone to equally fail than some students do well.

Mayor Bloomberg introduced “co-location” as a way to turn unused classrooms into productive learning environments. Sharing space also tests the hypothesis that environmental factors make it difficult for children in certain neighborhoods to succeed in school. Charters quickly proved that theory wrong. For example, 88% of third and fourth graders at Success Academy Harlem 5 passed the state math exam. The traditional public school located in the same building only managed to attain a pass rate of 6%.

Same buildings, same neighbourhood, but what a variance in pass rates.

Across the country, charter schools have produced particular academic gains among students in poverty, minority students and students still learning English. The sameCREDO study that revealed impressive learning gains among New York City¹s charter school students also showed that, nationwide, black students in poverty who attend charter schools gained the equivalent of 29 extra days of learning in reading each year, and 36 extra days in math, compared to their traditional public schools peers.

That’s awful. That may lead to them breaking out of poverty. Why should kids whose parents decide to send them to a charter school be allowed to do better than those who do not?

Nina Rees is the president and CEO of the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools.

We should invite Nina to New Zealand!

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64 Responses to “NY charter schools”

  1. beautox (422 comments) says:

    No wonder the main stream teachers hate this idea. Six percent pass rate compared to 88 percent. That’s almost FIFTEEN TIMES the pass rate. Can you imagine being out-performed in your profession by a factor of 15?? And all these years, telling people that teachers need to be highly trained. Turns out some decent people with common sense make them look like idiots.

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  2. wat dabney (3,812 comments) says:

    Led by the American Federation of Teachers and the National Education Association, teachers unions contributed about $5.4 million to federal candidates, parties and committees during the 2008 election cycle. As is true with unions in general, most of the money coming from this category goes to Democrats. Teachers unions contribute 95 percent of their funds to Democrats.
    http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=L1300

    In early 2009, one of President Obama’s first acts in office was to end the DC school voucher program. He even sought to revoke scholarships that had already been promised to children for the coming term. The children who benefitted from the program were mostly of African American descent…Ever since taking office, President Obama has maintained a pernicious fixation on rooting out school choice programs.
    http://theprincetontory.com/main/school-choice-and-individual-liberty/

    Unforgivable.

    Utterly corrupt bastards throwing the poorest children under the bus.

    Sorry John Key, I wouldn’t play golf with this cunt. I wouldn’t piss on him if he was on fire.

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  3. Jack5 (5,167 comments) says:

    The traditional scholarly education is important, and competition from charter schools would be excellent for all.

    However, IMHO more importantly, we need charter schools to dilute the Green-Leftist brain washing of kids that is going on in State schools.

    The kids are indoctrinated with Green bullshit. Go to an annual school concert and you will see your kids or grandkids on stage acting out rescuing penguins or some such. They are more subtly indoctrinated with lefty views, and there is pressure from the Lefties and feminazis generally to supplant parents’ roles in passing on values and attitudes on sex, family, individual responsibility and society generally. From smoking to now over-eating the push is for indoctrination and telling rather than inculcating self-responsibility.

    Roll on charter schools.

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  4. Ross12 (1,456 comments) says:

    Add to this the UK are seriously looking a form of performance pay for teachers. The Unions will have to double up on their intake of chill pills.

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  5. duggledog (1,589 comments) says:

    The mainstream education system in New Zealand have had this coming for years. I hope to god the charter schools will have some significant success to table before this year’s general election; it would add significantly to the National government’s list of actual achievements, and make it harder for right leaning Labour voters to justify their continued support.

    I went to a meeting a few years ago when the board of my local school were going mental about National Standards. I was so surprised and disappointed when a very well known educator of some repute effectively said ’10 – 15% of kids are going to fail and there’s nothing we can do about it’.

    The same defeatist attitude was prevalent in the NZ Police hierarchy a few years ago when they reported there was nothing that could be done about the boy racer problem and that it was out of control. Fact is, they just didn’t have the legislation to deal with it. Now they do and the problem is being dealt with pretty effectively (not as dramatically as I’d like but hey!).

    What a funny old country this is. I sometimes despair when I see us all bickering about the degree of socialism we should have. It takes so long to turn what is actually quite a little ship around.

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  6. Michael (911 comments) says:

    When Teacher Unions talk about charter schools, they talk about teachers and money for staate schools. When proponents of charter schools talk about charter schools, they always talk about students getting better learning.

    I know which group I’d rather have involved in teaching my kids.

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  7. kiwi in america (2,511 comments) says:

    In many US states the teacher unions have lost the fight over charter schools precisely because they predicted poor quality from non union teachers and in the better run schools, the opposite has happened completely undermining their ‘chicken little’ baying. NZ’s teacher unions are pushing so aggressively because the more honest amongst them see what is happening in some of the US states and they don’t like what they see. New Zealand’s unitary national government structure means comparing the effect of differing laws, union influence and charter school quality that can be done with the city/county governance structure of US school districts and the vastly differing state laws, is not possible. If Labour/Greens get in, the unions know the entire nationwide charter schools experiment comes to a permanent end barring a change of government so that also motivates their activism as they know they will have no competition anywhere in the country if the centre-right loses.

    Sweden and the UK are having similar results. Sweden is hard to dismiss as it has been the left’s poster child state for decades due to its super welfare state that is more recently been partially wound back. Keep publicizing these successes David as it is a good counterbalance to the union dominated mainstream media coverage.

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  8. duggledog (1,589 comments) says:

    Teachers love to bang on about ‘unqualified teachers’. Always makes me laugh, like there’s some secret alchemy to education that only those who pass through the hallowed halls of TeaCol can know.

    We taught our kids to read, write and do basic maths before they started at our local primary. Read to them every night for years. It was not unusual for them to correct their teachers’ spelling while in class

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  9. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    Perhaps we should be sending some of our teachers overseas to work at Charter Schools so they can come back and spread the word?

    Sort of like that “Sister City” shit that just organises junkets for local body pollies? :)

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  10. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    Not that in any way, I would want to usurp the influence of the teachers unions!!! :)

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  11. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    The thing that has always amazed me about a profession that would have us believe that they are all about excellence and raising the standard of our children’s education is that they feel so inadequate in their own abilities that they have to join a union to do their talking for them!

    Perhaps some could chat about this anomaly? :)

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  12. transmogrifier (522 comments) says:

    I back charter schools 100% and think the union is self-interested and short-sighted to oppose them.

    But geez, does this topic ever bring out DPF’s most unpleasantly sarcastic, whiny, strawman-beating side.

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  13. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    A chap has to acknowledge what side his bread is buttered on trans! :)

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  14. transmogrifier (522 comments) says:

    Johnboy (1:54): It’s more that, given that the education system is still mostly public, and thus the government has a monopoly of sorts with regards to the conditions and remuneration they can offer, the formation of a union makes sense; after all, if I’m dissatisfied with my job, I have very few options in terms of leaving and finding better conditions.

    That’s the theory, at least. Whether it works like that in reality is a much different question. And of course, the presence of charter schools provides more of this variety in teaching conditions, which weakens the need of a union……so that’s a factor that could help explain the mindless opposition to them.

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  15. Harriet (5,145 comments) says:

    Legislating how shools CAN be run is the role of governments! Not how they SHOULD be run!

    School parental boards are NOT in charge of classrooms – the ‘school board thing’ is all window dressing.

    The unions are in charge of all classrooms! That’s a fact. Teachers have to do something outragous before the principal and/or board makes a stand! Poor performance is not an issue.

    Government having an involvement in education is of course nessecery, but running all the schools under the ‘sway’ of unions for 92% of children is an entirely different matter. It’s plainly stupid.

    And having a UNION of PUBLIC SERVANTS in near FULL CONTROL of those school CLASSROOMS is of course not nessecery – as it’s bloody near COMMUNISTIC.

    It’s education vouchers that seperates communism from democracy where schools are concerned. Parental DECISION MAKING. And that is far different to ‘choice’. As adults know. Not all parents are useless.

    National is being far too soft on Labour and their education ‘ideas’, sure, trial some Charter Schools, but they should also be taking on Labour and the union over the crux of the matter – parental responsability.

    Afterall parents are on ALL the school boards! So Labour cannot then deny that parents are then INCAPABLE of deciding where their children are schooled and by whom – if parents are currently ‘running’ all the schools. – And that also proves the point that it is teachers who are in charge of classroms. Otherwise Labour wouldn’t give much of a fuck about teachers, other than pay. Labour wants their control of children to stay!

    Why don’t National just take the fight to the Teachers Union – by suggesting to give parents a $10k education grant to spend where they please? – After all, Labour would hit the roof if national said:

    “But parents currently spend their WFF payments on children wherever and however they please, so their childrens’ education should be no different – so does Labour want to restrict where parents spend WFF payments too?”

    Labour won’t ever come up with a ‘shopping list’ for WFF recipitents to defend their control of the arguement – simply because they know Woolworths and Paknsave will just keep putting the prices up on those products.

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  16. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    I’ve always thought a government with balls would just abolish the teachers unions/headmasters unions and get them all to re-apply for their previous jobs. Those who were competent would have no trouble being re-employed at a higher rate and the dross could take what was offered or up-skill.

    Seems simple enough to me. But I am a simple man after all! :)

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  17. Rightandleft (670 comments) says:

    New York created a two-tier system where some lucky kids who win a lottery get to go to successful charter schools which often have funding advantages because of private donors, and always have the major advantage of having students whose parents care about their education and will work hard to help them succeed. The NAACP sued the NYC school system because the public schools sharing sites with charters were being given inferior access to the sites’ resources like libraries.

    New Zealand already has NY style charters in the Tomorrow’s Schools system in NZ. The only problem I know of with our system is that it is too difficult to open special character schools at the moment. That is something we could work on fixing instead of creating a separate system for the lucky few who have committed parents and win a lottery. If public schools in South Auckland or Northland are failing we should be fixing them, not abandoning most of the students to the failing publics and sending a few to a charter that has smaller class sizes and other advantages.

    Some argue that it is the union influence causing the pubic schools to fail and therefore the non-union charters are the only solution. But the many, many successful schools in NZ are just as unionised as those in South Auckland. The problem isn’t the teachers or unions. There isn’t a glut of awful teachers who just happened to have all ended up in South Auckland. Some of the most committed, hard-working teachers I know have gone to those schools because they want the challenge. It is the poverty, but to a much greater extent it is the family dysfunction prevalent in those areas that makes the difference. And yet there are some public schools in impoverished areas which are achieving far better results than others without any special rule changes. We should be learning how they are doing it and copying them, not re-inventing the wheel with partnership schools.

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  18. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    I went to a private school and got tolerably well educated. Why don’t we take a quantum leap and make all our schools private and just pay them from the tax take to get on with educating our children and knock out the Ministry/Union influence completely! Win win folks! :)

    (Unless you are into indoctrination stuff of course! :) )

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  19. duggledog (1,589 comments) says:

    Harriet: “Why don’t National just take the fight to the Teachers Union”

    Johnboi (sorry, couldn’t help myself) “I’ve always thought a government with balls would just abolish the teachers unions/headmasters unions and get them all to re-apply for their previous jobs”

    Well, this is it, isn’t it. And here’s my 2c:

    Duggledog: ‘I always hoped National would bring in competition to ACC’

    Hence the need to have a stronger ‘right wing’ (for want of a better word) party for the many, many impatient voters who would like a steel rod inserted into National’s backbone. Yes we all are grateful for National keeping the wolves (Grebour) from the door and keeping the country solvent but that can’t be all they do in office. Because as we all know once the left gets in everything will go back to square one.

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  20. Yoza (1,913 comments) says:

    Johnboy (12,552 comments) says:
    January 5th, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    I went to a private school and got tolerably well educated.

    And the argument for private schools is emphatically destroyed.

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  21. MH (817 comments) says:

    wecome back Kotter, you’ ll notice teachers are thought of as being men,but that ideal died out in the 1970’s. Will charters change that “perception” esp dealing with the lower classes and attract more men ? Bring back country service esp for women. There’s your problem.

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  22. duggledog (1,589 comments) says:

    Yoza:

    There’s more to private schools – especially boarding schools – than just the three Rs.

    Other lessons taught are; how to get on with others, sort out differences and fight one’s own battles (mum and dad aren’t around to help you)
    Work habits, self discipline, self reliance – and things like compulsory sporting activities after school and in weekends can serve to boost a kid’s confidence.

    The vast majority of kids really thrive especially boys. Then again – some private schools are no better than a very good state school and you are really only paying for the privilege of wearing The Uniform and being part of the old boys / girls network!

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  23. slijmbal (1,236 comments) says:

    @R&L

    “…instead of creating a separate system for the lucky few who have committed parents and win a lottery.”

    One of the few things teachers say that I agree with is that the wrong parents lead to failure but what also happens is that the crappy kids of crappy parents then bring down the rest in the current system. Better schools won’t normally make a difference to these kids but will for the many who care.

    The lottery aspect can be fixed by having lots more of these types of schools then it’s about choice.

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  24. DJP6-25 (1,389 comments) says:

    One thing they could do is abolish ‘ school zones’. The proviso would be that if a child was not accepted by the school of their choice;their nearest state school would have to take them. Listen to people in Fendalton, Devonport, and Wadestown scream about their house prices dropping $30-50000 if that happens though.

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  25. doggone7 (833 comments) says:

    A day for enlightenment as I think I’ve just learned that at state schools kids don’t learn how to get on with others, sort out differences and fight their own battles, or develop work habits, self discipline and self reliance. And I’m now convinced that there’s no more to state schools than just the three Rs.

    And I think I found out that the worst private schools are no better than the very good state schools (I’m surprised to even have to consider that there actually might be any very good state schools!)

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  26. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    Yoza obviously didn’t go to a private school. So the argument for state schools is emphatically destroyed! :)

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  27. nasska (11,822 comments) says:

    I attended a boarding school but was expelled half way through the sixth form JB.

    Does that count? :)

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  28. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    Obviously it counted that you wouldn’t turn it up for the House Master nasska! :)

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  29. duggledog (1,589 comments) says:

    Doggone you’re ‘absoluting’ my argument, and I did not mean to offend you. Of course all those lessons can happen at state schools, but you go home at three. Private schools they got you in loco parentis way longer.

    I’m just saying part of the reason people send their kids to private schools and boarding schools (rightly or wrongly) is that there is generally far more emphasis on those things there. That’s been my experience and I experienced both, from a very expensive private school to a sole charge rural state school. Both taught me a lot!

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  30. nasska (11,822 comments) says:

    The house master was strange fruit JB but that wasn’t the problem. I was skating on pretty thin ice anyway & the occasion of the mid year social when we were host to our compatriots from a nearby girls’ college finished off my academic career.

    Somehow or other some arsehole smuggled in a few bottles of port wine & half the sixth fronted up at the hall as pissed as parrots. For some reason I got the blame. :)

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  31. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    Did you keep your mind on the game nasska and shagged a couple of the tart’s or were you too pissed? :)

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  32. nasska (11,822 comments) says:

    Not a chance JB…..the principal read the riot act but there wasn’t much they could do about things until we slept it off.

    The shit really hit the fan on Monday morning. Long story short, I refused a caning & told them they could stick their college. I was on the train home that afternoon & checking out the situations vacant column next morning, sans reference. :)

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  33. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    And look at us now nasska. Not a degree between us but successful rural gentlemen, with a huge wad, that we can wave at the posers. Life is good! :)

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  34. nasska (11,822 comments) says:

    I’ve only got a very small wad JB but you’re right…..it’s been a cracker of a life to date. :)

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  35. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    Have you ever been to Yorkshire lad? :)

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  36. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    Great stuff!

    I have a number of links to studies showing that charter schools *work*.
    Here they are –

    http://www.education.gov.uk/schools/leadership/typesofschools/academies/a00210582/annual-report-2010-11

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/26/new-orleans-charter-schools-model?newsfeed=true

    http://www.economist.com/node/21558255

    http://www.economist.com/node/21558265

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444358804578018410937727422.html

    http://www.nyccharterschools.org/content/nyc-charter-schools-show-math-and-english-gains-2011-12-tests

    http://www.kipp.org/results/independent-reports

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  37. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    “I’ve only got a very small wad JB”

    I can seen then why you never got to sort out the tart’s at the school dance then nasska! :)

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  38. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Its worthwhile to pause and reflect about Charter Schools and their alleged benefits and cure all for state education ills.. Sweden one of the first countries that took them on board on a grand scale is now having second thoughts when some companies running them went belly up and had to close down.
    Guess who came to the rescue.?
    Seems like just another version of socialism for the Rich and privatization for the poor using a simplistic “free ” market model. By all means let the experiment go ahead but so long as their is true transparency , a level playing field and clear lines of accountability.

    http://dianeravitch.net/2013/12/10/sweden-market-based-reforms-in-big-trouble/

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  39. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    The Swedes neglected to fire the state employed teachers stephanie. In that was the ruin of the experiment! :)

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  40. HB (328 comments) says:

    DJP6-25 at 4:32 pm
    “One thing they could do is abolish ‘ school zones’. The proviso would be that if a child was not accepted by the school of their choice;their nearest state school would have to take them. Listen to people in Fendalton, Devonport, and Wadestown scream about their house prices dropping $30-50000 if that happens though”

    How is that different to what happens now? You don’t have to send your children to the school that is in the ‘zone’ you live in. My children don’t go to their local state high school. They go to one in the next suburb over. Schools only enforce the zone if they are ‘full’ from in-zone enrolments. There wouldn’t be many schools in NZ that don’t accept out of zone enrolments, although later in the school year they might as classes full up. Usually if you are enrolling for the next year they don’t give a crap where you live.

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  41. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    209,000 of them in the Teachers Union stephanie?

    Lets face it the last good thing that came out of Sweden was Agnetha Faltskog! :)

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  42. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Johnboy (12,560 comments) says:
    January 5th, 2014 at 5:31 pm

    Just read the link Janine. ! and this Reuters article,

    http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKBRE9B905720131210?irpc=932

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  43. NK (1,259 comments) says:

    Charter Schools are another achievement of the Act Party. Yet, according to Matthew Hooten, Act has achieved nothing.

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  44. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    I have Stephanie. It just says that you have to get the socialists and the unionists out of every facet of your future or you have none. They bugger everything that you try to do to progress yourself. Folk who have learned to make their own decisions have no need of unions or any other form of socialism. :)

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  45. Yoza (1,913 comments) says:

    duggledog (863 comments) says:
    January 5th, 2014 at 4:08 pm

    Yoza:

    There’s more to private schools – especially boarding schools – than just the three Rs.

    I do not have a problem with private schools, as long as they are completely private and not subsidized by the tax-payer. It does not matter how vigorously this is spun, charter schools are private institutions and, as such, should not receive taxpayer support. There is a public school system that works very well and would work better if so much wasn’t diverted to subsidize the exclusive schools attended by the well heeled few.
    Charter schools appear successful by hand picking students and leaving public schools to deal with the most disruptive elements.

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  46. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    Oh Dear Janine.!
    Really.

    Tsk, Tsk , Tsk. !
    Thus anyone who challenges your cherished thoughts is labeled and demonized a ” Unionist” or” Socialist.” In what precise ways are your “freedoms” been trodden on at this moment by these ” socialists” and Unionists.”pray tell me.??

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  47. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    “There is a public school system that works very well and would work better if so much wasn’t diverted to subsidize the exclusive schools attended by the well heeled few.”

    You sound a lot like a psuedo tall poppy scythe and a nasty little commo fuck Yoza! :)

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  48. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    First class Yoza. !
    This is what I mean by transparency , true accountabilities and a level playing fierls which Janine ( nee John Boy ) takes such an exception to.
    Like Private schools Charter schools should not have to rely on government hand outs but on private equity . Let the likes of Janine stand by their Libertarianism or whatever and reach into their own pockets and not bludge off the state for a hand out.!

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  49. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    There you go Janine.!
    Typical.

    When reason fails, the devil helps!”
    ― Fyodor Dostoyevsky,

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  50. Manolo (14,082 comments) says:

    @stephie, By your spelling and eloquence you must have attended a low decile school, mustn’t you?

    A fine outcome of today’s NZ state education system, now creating dedicated students of Feminism and Women’s Studies like yourself.

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  51. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    You miss my point entirely Stephanie/Yoza. ALL education should be privatised. The state should have no hand in it at all other than funding it. Funding should be dependent on results. Teachers unions should be abolished as they do not reflect the confessed ideals of our teachers that they are there to do the best for their students.

    I can’t see your argument at all unless you are socialist fucks that believe in mind control? :)

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  52. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    I think Janine and Manolo it is most gratifying and touching that there are those like you both who believe that we in NZ are just not selfish enough.!

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  53. Manolo (14,082 comments) says:

    Privatise the whole school system.
    Fire and sack the child molesters of the mind (unionist teachers) and set education free.

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  54. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    manolo.
    Be as it you may wish and remain in perpetual opposition.!
    It might explain why in 2011 Libertariannz received a commanding 0.002% of the popular vote

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  55. wat dabney (3,812 comments) says:

    In what precise ways are your “freedoms” been trodden on at this moment by these ” socialists” and Unionists.”pray tell me.??

    The obvious example in this case is how they organise themselves politically in order to impose a rent-seeking monopoly on education, to deliver above market pay and conditions to themselves at the expense of taxpayers and students.

    That’s what this thread is about: rapacious labour cartels exploiting the rest of us.

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  56. Johnboy (17,018 comments) says:

    Well said wat. Leftie fellows like Yoza and stephanie that have never known superior education really need our sympathy. Their beloved state system is all they have ever experienced so they know nothing better! :)

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  57. doggone7 (833 comments) says:

    duggledog

    I also did not mean to offend you but ‘absoluting’ arguments, is what this blog is generally about. Read Manolo’s last comment as an example. (Part of the reasoning behind that could be that state schools don’t work.)

    It’s interesting that some people consider that if someone achieves well in life who went to a private school it’s because of the school. If someone does well who attended a state school, their success is in spite of the school. Most of the Ministers in our Parliament, including the PM attended state schools and we know they are geniuses with exceptional intellectual and personal qualities!

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  58. MH (817 comments) says:

    and the last to be taught by a male teacher from go to woe.
    There are numerous schools in NZ that have no male teachers apart from the janitor and groundsman.

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  59. Yoza (1,913 comments) says:

    Johnboy (12,567 comments) says:
    January 5th, 2014 at 5:55 pm

    You sound a lot like a psuedo tall poppy scythe and a nasty little commo fuck Yoza!!

    Nasty little (small a) anarchist fuck, …for what it is worth.

    wat dabney (3,202 comments) says:
    January 5th, 2014 at 6:30 pm

    That’s what this thread is about: rapacious labour cartels exploiting the rest of us.

    It was the rapacious capital cartels that paid for the Act party’s place in parliament that led to National adopting the charter schools legislation. The implementation of the scheme inherently exploits the taxpayer and the public school system by demanding their support.
    The reality is this is just a bone the National party hierarchy threw to the rabid curs in the Act party, corporate New Zealand does well out of the taxpayer training its workforce – big business isn’t going to stand by and allow a bunch of ideological nutters the opportunity to sabotage one of their most valuable resources.

    Johnboy (12,567 comments) says:
    January 5th, 2014 at 6:46 pm

    Leftie fellows like Yoza and stephanie that have never known superior education really need our sympathy. Their beloved state system is all they have ever experienced so they know nothing better!

    The mind wobbles! Are you seriously offering yourself as an example of the benefits of the private education system, …that’s just sad.

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  60. Kiwi Dave (95 comments) says:

    Having taught in 3 state schools in NZ (mostly in South Auckland) and both private and state schools overseas, I am well aware of differences in school cultures and individual teacher competence within schools.

    I support charter schools and think educational unions are wrong to oppose them and merit pay, but as a previous comment noted, successful state schools are just as unionised as our failing schools. Moreover, I noticed that as I moved from one school to another, here and overseas, my success varied enormously, though my commitment remained unchanged.

    As far as I could tell from a VERY quick scan of the original news article and the CREDO report on which it was based, students (or their families) who went to charter schools were all volunteers, whereas those who stayed in state schools were mostly non-volunteers; if this is correct, then the study has omitted a hugely important variable.

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  61. stephieboy (3,414 comments) says:

    O K Kiiwi Dave.!
    Fair enough just so long there is as I’ve already stated these ingredients are present – transparency ,a level playing field and accountability. if any charter school goes belly up, as in the case of Sweden, then the beggar bowls from private providers don’t come out.
    BTW I believe private providers other than charitable or community trusts should stump up with the lions share of venture capital.In other words put their money where there mouth is.!

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  62. doggone7 (833 comments) says:

    Rightandleft:

    “If public schools in South Auckland or Northland are failing we should be fixing them, not abandoning most of the students to the failing publics and sending a few to a charter that has smaller class sizes and other advantages.”

    The charter schools in Northland are not being set up because the public schools there are failing.

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  63. DJP6-25 (1,389 comments) says:

    HB 5.37 pm. Oh, that’s good news then.

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  64. MH (817 comments) says:

    If all the pvt schools incl Cathoes etc were nationalised what would be the increased cost to the average taxpayer? No,best to keep them subsidised or we’d have more judicious closing down by you know who and the docile rate would increase exponentially.

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