General Debate 25 February 2014

February 25th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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94 Responses to “General Debate 25 February 2014”

  1. Pete George (23,804 comments) says:

    John Key says that Colin Craig should “just accept” lies and dishonesty in politics and he should harden up.

    I don’t accept that. It would be much harder for Key to rise above the fray and lead by example, and discourage dirty politics.

    The world is cleaning up it’s act with fewer wars and less conflict deaths.

    Sport is stamping down on dirty.

    A good leader would do the hard things and lead the way to clean up our politics. Should.

    Crappy politics keeps turning people off the stench. We shouldn’t “just accept it” Mr Key.

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  2. Longknives (4,956 comments) says:

    “The world is cleaning up it’s act with fewer wars and less conflict deaths.
    Sport is stamping down on dirty.”

    Any evidence to back up either of these startling claims Pete?

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  3. flipper (4,332 comments) says:

    The Minimum Wage and Minimum youth rate increases are still in the news focus, but no one has focussed on the actual cost of the minimum wage which is …

    Wage+ Holiday Pay+ Sick Pay+ ACC+ Kiwisaver +extra admin.
    When these are added

    Minimum wage rises from $14.25 to 16.70
    Waldegrave rises from $18.80 to $23
    Cunners wage rises from $22.80 to $26.70

    Of course the psychos of the world just ignore the fact that the addition of 17%+ is a legal requirement. Crazy, but then the psychos and rossies of the world are ….. well, crazy.

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  4. kowtow (8,938 comments) says:

    Fewer wars……..No doubt the happy citizens of Congo,CAR,Mali,Mauritania,Niger,Nigeria,Chad,South Sudan,Somalia,Yemen,Iraq,Syria,Afghanistan,Pakistan and Lebanon will be taking comfort from Pete Georges’ positive, smiley morning sentiments.

    Meanwhile back in the real world…….

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  5. Pete George (23,804 comments) says:

    Plenty of evidence Longknives. DPF has posted about the reducing wars and conflict deaths.

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  6. big bruv (14,218 comments) says:

    PG

    “John Key says that Colin Craig should “just accept” lies and dishonesty in politics and he should harden up.

    I don’t accept that. It would be much harder for Key to rise above the fray and lead by example, and discourage dirty politics.”

    Good point, perhaps Key could start by demanding that Dunne make a full disclosure re the Andrea Vance leak.

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  7. Longknives (4,956 comments) says:

    Very,very debatable Peter- It’s all about how you define ‘conflict’- I.e. do you count crazed Muslims blowing the shit out of innocent people on an almost daily basis?

    As for Sports- Sport is dirtier than ever. More PEDs and Match Fixing than you can even imagine..

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  8. Bovver (173 comments) says:

    Labour’s leadership rules have turned around and bit them on the bum, with the chorus, I mean the caucus not behind DC most them seem to be missing in action. It looks to me as if they want DC to loose the election.

    Also R.I.P Harold Ramis of Gostbusters and Groundhog fame.

    “Back of man, I’m a scientist” – Peter Venkman

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  9. Keeping Stock (9,380 comments) says:

    Excellent editorial in the Dom-Post this morning on the Wellington City Council and the Living Wage. It’s all summed up in this sentence:

    The council is only able to do this because it can simply pass on its costs.

    The Living Wage is a simplistic solution to a complex issue, and it won’t work. Businesses simply can’t pass on cost increases, whereas monopolies such as councils have nothing to fear. Cr Mark Peck, the former Labour MP turned Wellington councillor who won’t bring in a Living Wage for the staff in his cafe but happily voted for the WCC to further burden ratepayers has become the poster boy for just that reason; the policy is simply unworkable for small businesses operating in a competitive, price-sensitive market.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/02/dom-post-on-wcc-and-living-wage.html

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  10. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    John Key says that Colin Craig should “just accept” lies and dishonesty in politics and he should harden up.

    I think may be they already have?

    Listen to john he is you democratically elected leader and he is lovely

    Give me my new NZ flag john give it to me ooooo aaaa

    it makes me squeal with delight

    Harden up and give it us all

    lies and dishonesty in politics

    Give it to us ooo aaa

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  11. Pete George (23,804 comments) says:

    Good point, perhaps Key could start by demanding that Dunne make a full disclosure re the Andrea Vance leak.

    How do you know he hasn’t? Key seems comfortable with how things are now.

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  12. Reid (16,701 comments) says:

    David Ross’ house sells and he also has a trust which the liquidators placed into receivership. The wife and kids will get around 50% of each.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9758973/Fraudsters-family-to-benefit

    If I were them I would donate it to the liquidator for distribution to “the sad widows and the retired 90-year-old couples I’ve spoken to that have lost everything” and walk away with nothing, on the principle it was blood money and I want nothing to do with it. What would you do?

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  13. Chuck Bird (4,905 comments) says:

    Murray initially held no remorse for smuggling
    By Jimmy Ellingham
    4:36 PM Monday Feb 24, 2014

    Murray visited Reid in jail 80 times over nine months, and she said: “Seventy-nine times, contraband was not delivered”.

    She said her sentence was disproportionate compared with other people who had successfully been granted a discharge on more serious charges, including lawyer and former Act Party MP David Garrett.

    He used the identity of a dead baby to apply for a passport and gave a fake address on the application form.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11208930

    This appeal is outrageous for a number of reasons. She should have been jailed and I hope the High Court jails her for real lack of recourse and failure to accept responsibility for her actions. There could be an element of sexism in her lenient sentence. I doubt if a male lawyer would just get a slap on the wrist for smuggling dangerous items to a female prisoner in return for sex.

    The lighter posed a danger to staff and other prisoners. I believe there have been deaths due to cell fires. The smart phone is worst. Witnesses could be threatened or even murdered because of a phone in the hands of prisoners.

    I also suspect that the lenient sentence in part was because judges look on lawyers as a fallen colleague. A bent lawyer should be dealt with more harshly as they bring the whole profession into disrepute.

    Her comparison with David Garrett should not help her. His historic crime was before he became a lawyer when he was an immature university student. The main harm it did was to the ACT Party. Her crime was as mature woman and a practicing lawyer and put people’s lives at risk. It could affect lawyers’ special privileges for a long time. Lawyers have been allowed to visit prisoners privately and were not searched before a visit.

    I will be watching for a decision on this case with interest.

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  14. Andrei (2,653 comments) says:

    The world is cleaning up it’s act with fewer wars and less conflict deaths.

    The world looked all nice and peaceful in February 1914, 100 years ago

    Then some fuckwit world leaders in efforts to expand their empires and influence fucked up big time ……….

    And the countdown has begun for the next round

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  15. thedavincimode (6,890 comments) says:

    The asset sale post provides a useful reminder of the bare-faced hypocrisy of liebour over Kiwirail. Pissing $1b up against the wall as a political bribe – just giving it away to foreign owners. All money that could have been spent on all those kids supposedly living below the poverty line according to porcelain chops.

    Ditto, it seems the increasingly slimey migrant whinger has been talking to Dot Crim about buying him a fibre cable. Pissing more money up against the wall that could have been used to feed this army of starving children and allow their parents to go on avoiding the difficult choices between Sky, smokes, booze and making breakfast.

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  16. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    The world is cleaning up it’s act with fewer wars and less conflict deaths.

    The world looked all nice and peaceful in February 1914, 100 years ago

    Then some fuckwit world leaders in efforts to expand their empires and influence fucked up big time ……….

    And the countdown has begun for the next round

    <
    2030-2033

    The Great Pacific War Happens

    Fill you on on the specifics

    Yes Pacific YOUR REGION

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  17. iMP (2,456 comments) says:

    Ok, great. So we can now start telling everyone Russell Norman has done a U-turn on fracking and oil exploration, and has signed an accord with Dairy farmers not to fence their waterways. And Russell should just “accept that.” Glad that’s sorted.

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  18. Sofia (857 comments) says:

    thedavincimode – Ditto, it seems the increasingly slimey migrant whinger has been talking to Dot Crim about buying him a fibre cable.

    Colourful description, but who are you actually talking about?

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  19. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Lead photograph/propaganda in Labour/Fairfax “Manawatu Standard”: Lees-Galloway and Twyford waffling crap about State housing. This paper deserves to go under, being as bad, if not worse, than what has been uncovered in Television NZ. Political bias is a problem for this company, showing in their balance sheet, but not fast enough.

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  20. ciaron (1,448 comments) says:

    Colourful description, but who are you actually talking about?

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  21. Manolo (14,169 comments) says:

    Another banana republic? Communism is history, but the corruption remains:
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/02/24/monument-to-corruption-ukraine-most-wanted-man-built-75m-home-on-25g-salary/

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  22. EAD (1,451 comments) says:

    Ever wanted to see the end game for socialism up close? Just look across the ditch at the vile death threats being aimed at Tony Abbot:

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/this_horrific_abuse_of_abbott_must_end_but_where_is_the_left_that_cried_ove/

    Watermelon (noun): Green on the outside, Red on the Inside. Also known as a “Totalitarian”.

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  23. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    Whats the deal with the Ukraine?

    This is what im hearing.

    Yanks put this bozo into power in 2004.

    Bozo spends everything, borrows 15 billion from the IMF but doesnt follow through with his promises. spends that.

    EU want them to join (so they can rape their resources). Russia dont want them too, offered to gift them a shit ton of money.

    The yanks want them to join the EU so they can put their anti ballistic missiles there and cancel out the russia nuclear threat (they have the same shit in poland and georgia).

    Russia view this as a huge strategic threat and the shit can hit the fan.

    The yanks financed a bunch of the protesters too. So the US is just doing their thing.

    Sound about right?

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  24. WineOh (636 comments) says:

    @ Ben Dover. Check your history. Actually in 1914 Europe was a powerkeg basking in a working steel mill. The complex treaties between European nations, Arms race escalation at an all time high, political tensions running extremely high and Austria & Germany actively searching for a casus belli.

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  25. EAD (1,451 comments) says:

    @ Dime: Yep

    That’s very close to my take on it as well.

    The excellent Paul Craig Roberts has an interesting synopsis:

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/02/23/democracy-murdered-protest-ukraine-falls-intrigue-violence/

    In his conclusion he leaves us with the following damning words:
    “The American media is a useless news source. It serves as a Ministry for Government Lies. The corrupt propagandists are portraying the undemocratic removal of Yanukovich as a victory for freedom and democracy. When it begins to leak out that everything has gone wrong, the presstitutes will blame it all on Russia and Putin. The Western media is a plague upon humanity.”

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  26. Andrei (2,653 comments) says:

    Not quite right Dime

    The looter of Ukraine that gained power in 2004 was Viktor Yushchenko with his glamourous Prime Minister Yulia Timoshenko aka the Gas Queen

    They were voted out in 2010 and replaced by Viktor Yanukovych, thus making him the lawfully elected authority in Ukraine until the next elections due next year when in an orderly manner he could be voted out if the people of Ukraine so choose

    The country is bankrupt and about default and Russia offered a better deal – 18 billion dollars plus cheaper energy supplies.

    For Yanukovich its a no brainer

    So a coup has been engineered by the champions of “freedom and democracy” who don’t actually believe in democracy nor the rule of law when it suits their purpose.

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  27. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    Andrei – cool.

    In a quick topic change. TRUE DETECTIVE is one of the best tv shows in history! and its only 6 episodes in.

    Dime didnt watch tv for years (apart from sport). Programming used to be garbage. But goddam the cable channels are churning out some great stuff. I can see more A listers doing tv in the coming years.

    matthew mcconaughey & woody harrelson are just killing it on this show.

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  28. gump (1,683 comments) says:

    @Andrei

    We all know of your uncritical love for mother Russia.

    To be honest – it’s kind of weird.

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  29. tom hunter (5,134 comments) says:

    You might also take a look at this aspect of the Ukraine – and it’s coverage:

    … last Friday evening, during one of the most popular talk shows on Inter, the most-watched Ukrainian network. Lidia Pankiv, a 24-year-old television journalist, was invited on by host Andriy Danylevych to discuss the need for reconciliation following the agreement signed by Yanukovych and dissidents earlier that day. While reporting on the Maidan protests, Pankiv had helped persuade the Berkut riot police not to use further violence against the activists, and she had disclosed that one of the Berkut officers was now her fiancé. But reconciliation was not what Pankiv wished to discuss. As relayed by journalist Halya Coynash, Pankiv had a different message:


    You probably want to hear a story from me about how with my bare hands I restrained a whole Berkut unit, and how one of the Berkut officers fell in love with me and I fell in love with him. But I’m going to tell you another story. About how with my bare hands I dragged the bodies of those killed the day before yesterday. And about how two of my friends died yesterday. . . . I hate Zakharchenko, Klyuev, Lukash, Medvedchuk, Azarov. I hate Yanukovych and all those who carry out their criminal orders. I came here today only because I found out that this is a live broadcast. I want to say that I also despise Inter because for three months it deceived viewers and spread enmity among citizens of this country. And now you are calling for peace and unity. Yes, you have the right to try to clear your conscience, but I think you should run this program on your knees. I’ve brought these photos here for you, so that you see my dead friends in your dreams and understand that you also took part in that. And now, I’m sorry, I don’t have time. I’m going to Maidan. Glory to Ukraine.

    The Inter talk-show host had trouble returning to his topic of reconciliation after that.

    I’m under no illusions about The Gas Queen and the rest. But there are no pure angels and devils here, so I’ll go with the people pulling down the statues of Lenin.

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  30. EAD (1,451 comments) says:

    watch the narrative from the Media, just like the Arab Spring was described as an “uprising for freedom and democracy” when in reality it was an overthrow by hardline Islamists. Watch the language they choose to describe events in Ukraine. The narrative on the news was ‘The dictatorship has fallen’. Huh? I thought he was democratically elected? Those little quotation marks make it OK to emblazon a whopping great pork pie on national news.

    I get the feeling the media is being deliberately misleading about the nature of this event calling it an “uprising for democracy”. I call bull sh*t.

    Look at these 2 definitions and ask yourself which is it:
    Revolution: a forcible overthrow of a government or social order, in favour of a new system.
    Coup d’état: a sudden, violent, and illegal seizure of power from a government.

    Yanukovich was a utterly corrupt crook but it doesn’t change the fact he was part of a legitimate government. The thing is with a coup d’état, they just about always end in civil war.

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  31. Sofia (857 comments) says:

    Cameron Slater – Labour’s rules mean they are stuck with David Cunliffe for this election. There can be no Mike Moore style last minute change to save the ship. They have to go down with David Cunliffe.

    The question is how hard will they go down, or indeed manufacture the going the down in order to destroy Cunliffe’s plans.

    No one likes losing but the reality is the safe Labour seats are safe Labour seats and MPs in those can implement this plan with no damage to themselves. The only down side is the list MPs…but a fair swag of them are Cunliffe supporters themselves.

    Or –
    Last Election, Labour ran with a Leader, Goff, who everyone knew would be dumped straight after they lost.
    No one stepped up to replace him, as that would jeopardize their future chances, and individual position and salary was more important than the Party or public.

    So now they are on to their third Leader
    As all they have done on Opposition, although being paid to do what Oppositions should do, they have just been changing fucking Leaders.
    Now, at this early stage, they have already seen the writing on the Wall.
    The only change really is that they have now made it harder to change Leaders.
    So
    This Election, Labour will run with a Leader, Cunliffe, who everyone knows will be dumped straight after they loose.
    No one, meantime, will step up to replace him, as that would jeopardize their individual future chances, and their position and salary which is still more important than the Party or public.
    Labour – fucked already … and all their own work [or lack of it]

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  32. muggins (3,828 comments) says:

    http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?sa=X&biw=1280&bih=827&tbm=isch&tbnid=09tIunXrEdX-XM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fworld%2F2013%2Fdec%2F15%2Fukraine-protests-analysis-two-nations&docid=SWHQM_kEDcdskM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2013%2F12%2F15%2F1387071132364%2FThe-ethno-linguistic-divi-001.jpg&w=460&h=442&ei=jrMLU4DpLYWAlQW41oHgCg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=6000&page=1&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=0CFUQrQMwAQ

    Perhaps the answer to the Ukraine problem is to split the country into two, the Ukranian speaking west and the Russian speaking east.

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  33. Colville (2,318 comments) says:

    In a quick topic change. TRUE DETECTIVE is one of the best tv shows in history! and its only 6 episodes in.

    True dat.
    I watched eps 1 – 3 last night.
    and Alexandra Daddario is hawwwt! :-)

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  34. Pete George (23,804 comments) says:

    Meanwhile Grant Robertson is concentrating on the important things.

    While Labour flounders and risk foundering on rocks he continues to relive his student days doing the rounds of the university Orientations. He just tweeted:

    @grantrobertson1
    My Orientation tour continues. Today it’s Auckland. Come on down and say hi at @PrincesStLabour stall. #labour4students

    What about labour4election? #MPsforsupportingleader?

    After the important things are done why not try -re-Orientation in caucus? There seems to be a major disorientation and loss of direction there.

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  35. fernglas (198 comments) says:

    True Detective? It may be the best television ever, but the diction of the two leads is appalling. It’s all very well giving it authenticity by using thick accents and mumbling the whole time, but it makes it impossible for those who don’t play the banjo to understand. Subtitles?

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  36. Jack5 (5,279 comments) says:

    DNA is uncovering interesting aspects of human migrations thousands of years ago, perhaps tens of thousands of years.

    The link below to Spiegel is to a report of DNA analysis of American Indian bones in Montana that suggests up to four-fifths of American Indians genetic origin lies ultimately in Europe.

    Maori were among the world’s greatest migrants with the long ocean voyages. My understanding is that their DNA goes back to the indigenous people of Taiwan. There was a Chinese film on Maori TV recently about indigenous Taiwanese fighting Japanese colonists, but I don’t think there was any mention either on the TV station or in media blurbs and programmes about Maori links with these folk.

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/dna-analysis-shows-native-americans-had-european-roots-a-954675.html

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  37. thedavincimode (6,890 comments) says:

    ciaron

    Never fails to raise a chuckle and a useful reminder of what an aggro bad tempered little prick he actually is.

    It’s also a useful reminder of the ginga whinga’s contrasting perspectives on democracy and freedom:

    1. Democracy and freedom for Tibet is good.

    2. Democracy and freedom in challenging for the melon leadership will not be tolerated.

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  38. EAD (1,451 comments) says:

    Good article: http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/nations-of-the-world-divide/2014/02/24/

    Looks like small countries work better for the simple reason ………..they have much better control of their government……their military, and their debt (well most of the time). Not because they are smarter or more peaceful. But simply because there is less distance between the governed and their governors. Citizens can see what their leaders are up to. If they don’t approve, the politician can be beaten in the next election, or in the street.

    Makes you wonder why some Politicians and think tanks are so keen on ramping our population up to 10 million?

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  39. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    Colville – goddam shes hot.

    The chick out of banshee that showed up again last night is also smoking.

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  40. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    Nokia has just announced 3 Android phones. All low end though. Forked android – no google play store allowed.

    Easy way to get an operating system for their budget phones.

    I would have liked to see their take on a high end android phone.

    The Samsung GS5 looks like a nothing upgrade.

    Dime may be rolling with a Nokia by the end of the year. One of those 20 mexal pixel suckas

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  41. Scott Chris (6,178 comments) says:

    You might also take a look at this aspect of the Ukraine

    Welcome back Tom Hunter!

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  42. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    When is the obese German felon, friend of Russel and Winston, being extradited? Now that he is failing to pay debts, incurred personally, he is neither use nor ornament to anyone, least of all Greens and NZ1. He has made it clear he is guilty of charges in US, thinking he could bribe egotist aspiring pollies to get him a safe haven. He, along with Lecher Len Brown, are blights on our landscape, diseases we neither want nor deserve. Seeing the way Lecher’s wife is supporting him, makes one think previous claims that she is a bauble lover, are not too far off the mark either.

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  43. wreck1080 (3,999 comments) says:

    gotta laugh , cat hater gareth morgan has just gone through a hell storm in the southern ocean. I trust he was puking his guts out and thinking of the joys of nth korea to get him by.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/9760669/Hell-storm-sends-Kiwi-expedition-packing

    “Hell on earth” is how a 28-year navy veteran has described conditions in the Southern Ocean which forced a scientific expedition to the sub-Antarctic islands to turn back.

    On board are Conservation Minister Nick Smith, Department of Conservation and Metservice staff, businessmen Gareth and Sam Morgan and some media.

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  44. stigie (1,448 comments) says:

    @ Dime
    That chick in Banshee you are talking about Dime is Lily Simmons. One beautiful lady !~

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  45. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    Chuck Hagel in the U.S is proposing to weaken the U.S Military by cutting it to pre-WW II numbers.

    Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel is expected to call Monday for shrinking the U.S. Army to its smallest size since 1940, among other cuts, drawing criticism that the drastic changes will hurt U.S. security.

    Hagel plans to announce his Pentagon budget priorities Monday afternoon. The Army had already been preparing to shrink to 490,000 active-duty members from a wartime peak of 570,000. Hagel is expected to propose cutting it further to between 440,000 and 450,000.

    Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas, chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, warned that the cuts would hurt military readiness. And he said the country is only in this position because the Obama administration and Congress will not seriously take on cuts to entitlements.

    “It’s all being sacrificed … on the altar of entitlements. This president cannot take on mandatory spending, so all we’ve done in the Congress — and this president — is basically cut discretionary spending,” he told Fox News.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/02/24/hagel-proposed-budget-will-reportedly-shrink-army-to-pre-wwii-numbers/

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  46. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    R.I.P Harold Ramis

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  47. stephieboy (3,525 comments) says:

    Fletch, it would be interesting to know just how the Republicans and Fox News propose to keep the military at it’s present size or bigger given the current constraints on Federal spending.?
    Maybe reduce taxes further in the manner GBW did to fund the Iraqi war.?

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  48. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    stephie –

    And he said the country is only in this position because the Obama administration and Congress will not seriously take on cuts to entitlements.

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  49. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    There are 22 Jihad training groups in the U.S that the FBI actually knows about, but cannot do anything about because the Obama Administration refuses to call them a terror organisation.

    PJ Media reported, “Federal Bureau of Investigations documents detailing a 22-site network of terrorist training villages sprawled across the United States. According to the documents, the FBI has been concerned about these facilities for about 12 years, but cannot act against them because the U.S. State Department has not yet declared that their umbrella group, MOA [Muslims of the Americas]/Jamaat ul-Fuqra, as a Foreign Terrorist Organization.”

    The Texas compound is called “Mahmoudberg,” located in south Texas’ Brazoria County on County Road 3 near the town of Sweeny, which has a population of about 4,000. Jamaat ul-Fuqra was the jihad terrorist organization that murdered journalist Daniel Pearl – he had gone to try to interview its leader. According to an informed source, one of Pearl’s murderers now lives at Mahmoudberg.

    http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/22-jihad-terror-training-centers-discovered-in-america-fbi-hands-tied-because-obama-refuses-to-declare-group-a-foreign-terrorist-organization

    Obama has a LOT to answer for. He is reckless and stupid and more Americans will die before he leaves or is impeached.

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  50. stephieboy (3,525 comments) says:

    Obama does not have a lot to answer for .Pamela Geller the author of the 22 alleged Jihadist training groups is well known for her lunatic and hysterical grunts and rants directed at every moving Muslim no matter what.
    But one of the moat of her many despicable acts was to downplay , nay deny and defend the massacre of Bosnian Mulsims in the Balkans war through the actions of the Serbian Radovan Karadzic and coy.

    http://www.loonwatch.com/2013/07/pamela-geller-defender-of-radovan-karadzic/

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  51. stephieboy (3,525 comments) says:

    Fletch ,re entitlements and military expenditure.? You support the notion that the average US citizen is not entitled to affordable Hospital and health care.?
    Do you also support increase in military expenditure when the US has now disengaged from Iraq and now pulling out of Afghanistan resulting in nil land wars.
    Do you oppose the use of Drone Technology and rapid response forces that is displacing the need for the use of
    large standing armies .?

    The abolishing of ” entitlements ” won’t go anywhere near to fund an expanded military expenditure desired by your far right Republicans , bloggers etc.
    Where therefore is the money coming from foe this.?

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  52. Lance (2,713 comments) says:

    O.K. logic dictates that a smart watch enabled gun is a good idea… but alarm bells are sounding in my head that this is wrong. Kinda creepy actually.

    http://www.designboom.com/technology/smartwatch-controlled-22-lr-caliber-pistol-system-by-armatix-02-24-2014/

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  53. Manolo (14,169 comments) says:

    The uselessness of local government: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/business/9760044/Ratepayers-still-stumping-up-for-stadium

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  54. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    stephie, they could save money in many places, starting with the Govt subsidy of useless Green initiatives and companies.
    Obama wasted half a billion dollars on Solyndra alone, not to mention the other 31 companies. I think so far he’s wasted 3 billion dollars.

    http://greencorruption.blogspot.co.nz/2014/01/cleantech-crash-cbs-lesley-stahl.html

    He’s also given $6 billion to Muslim countries for Green energy, and 1.5 billion to the Muslim Brotherhood.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2012/dgreenfield/obama-to-spend-6-billion-dollars-for-muslim-green-energy/

    So, real smart. Cut funding for the military and send the money to the enemy instead.

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  55. stephieboy (3,525 comments) says:

    Fletch as. I demonstrated before there are sound reasons to query your far right blogs and I gave a good example of Pamela Gelller which you have not responded to.
    Interesting.
    I see so you’d abolish all green initiatives based on that rather dodgy link of yours and you ” think ” he has wasted 3 billion dollars .?
    Again interesting.
    Funding the Muslim Brotherhood and other Muslim causes.? i see so the US ( both houses and Presidents )was wrong to fund Egypt militarily since the collapse of the Soviet Union.?Wrong also to send arms and aircraft to Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states since possibly records were kept.Again by both houses and Presidents from both parties.?
    You will naturally condemn also Republican perfidity and complicity in all these arm sales and aid to the Middle East and e.g Pakistan.?
    Correct?

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  56. Reid (16,701 comments) says:

    Interesting perspective and no surprise to those of us who ignore the MSM braying designed to cover up the phenomena in the link.

    http://therebel.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=745264:the-suicide-of-middle-class&catid=136:editorial&Itemid=2244

    I think the only thing that’s saved NZ and Australia too is you can’t offshore food production or mining unlike the US where it used to be manufacturing.. Those are the engine rooms of our respective economies and as soon as you offshore your engine room your service sector starts to deteriorate.

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  57. Reid (16,701 comments) says:

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/china-starts-to-make-a-power-move-against-the-u-s-dollar

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  58. corrigenda (142 comments) says:

    John Key says that Colin Craig should “just accept” lies and dishonesty in politics and he should harden up.

    Lies and dishonesty in politics??? Surely not. (gasp, gasp) And here was little old me thinking we had an honest parliament!!!

    TUI anyone??

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  59. stephieboy (3,525 comments) says:

    Where did John Key’s actually say ” just accept” lies and dishonesty etc.
    This smacks of Holier than Thou politics coming from CC and the Conservatives.

    Reid, thats an interesting site you’ve linked to,

    http://therebel.org/books/holocaust

    Tell us more.?

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  60. burt (7,426 comments) says:

    Stuff: High-level businessman’s CV false

    I’m expecting this guy will suffer the same amount of punishment as Cunliffe did – Oh hang on … It’s different when Labour do it !

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  61. tom hunter (5,134 comments) says:

    @Scott Chris, 11:15am

    Thanks. But I think this will only be very sporadic. There’s just not enough interest in what I’m interested in.

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  62. Reid (16,701 comments) says:

    Reid, thats an interesting site you’ve linked to,

    stephie I linked to an article not to a site.

    I’ve found that only children who don’t know how to think and morons who don’t know how to think but think they do, complain about the site that something resides on as if it has anything whatsoever to do with the veracity of the point being made by the article.

    If you want to know how to think then you should limit yourself to analysing said veracity, rather than hallucinating the person was saying one thing but really, behind the scenes, secretly and subtly saying quite another which you in your cleverness have unearthed. It’s just if you chose to do that, it makes you look like a complete mental.

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  63. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    stephieboy, news also to light that the Obamas have spent $18 million dollars on their 22 vacations.
    As the guy from Judicial Watch points out –

    “The Obamas are abusing the perks of public office,” said Fitton. “Taxpayers shouldn’t be footing the bill for their luxury travel.”

    http://washingtonexaminer.com/with-another-holiday-obamas-22-vacations-top-18-million/article/2544013

    And as for waste, how about the $200 million the State Dept insures the “art” it has in their offices? Some of which is just scrawled circles on a chalkboard.

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/no-for-benghazi-security-but-state-department-insures-200-mil-in-art/

    More waste.

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  64. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    I see so you’d abolish all green initiatives based on that rather dodgy link of yours and you ” think ” he has wasted 3 billion dollars .?
    Again interesting.

    btw, the list at the link I gave are the green initiatives that the Govt has subsidized (31 at the current count) that have gone bust, or belly up. ie, have had money wasted on them with no good outcome. A poor investment. The author at the link gives a thorough explanation of each one.

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  65. stephieboy (3,525 comments) says:

    Reid , the point I was making was that many of the websites you link to have an interesting pedigree. That one was no exception with Holocaust denial rampant.
    That alone is good reason to question its credibility.

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  66. stephieboy (3,525 comments) says:

    Fletch corruption and waste.? R
    epublicans and rabid righters like you shouldn’t be in glass houses and throw stones ,

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/06/iraq-reconstruction_n_2819899.html

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  67. cha (4,139 comments) says:

    As the guy from Judicial Watch points out –

    Oh dear, still citing the child abuser…and there’s still some way to go to catch up with Dubya.

    http://news.yahoo.com/-obama%E2%80%99s-vacations-and-golfing-by-the-numbers–165241111.html

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhRKPxcCAAAorui.png:large

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  68. Viking2 (11,676 comments) says:

    UK Border Patrol
    A British Border Patrol Boat stops four Muslims in a row boat,
    rowing towards Brighton .
    “The captain gets on the loud hailer and shouts,
    “Ahoy, small craft, where are you heading?”

    One of the Muslims stands up and shouts,
    “We are invading England !”

    The crew of the Patrol Boat all start laughing and when the
    captain finally stops laughing, he gets back on the loud hailer
    and says,

    “Just the four of you?”
    The Muslim stands up again and shouts,

    “No, we’re the last four. The rest are already there”

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  69. Fletch (6,528 comments) says:

    Oh dear, still citing the child abuser…

    I have absolutely no idea who that is.
    The story is by Paul Bedard, and the quotes in the story are from Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton.

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  70. cha (4,139 comments) says:

    And judicial watch is forever tarred with the Klayman brush.

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  71. nasska (12,101 comments) says:

    An alternative to jihad? :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/85lr4a3rpb1vgx4/Islam%201.jpg

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  72. nasska (12,101 comments) says:

    Teacher asks Billy “If you have five sweets and Mohammed asks for one, how many will you have left?”

    Billy: “Five”

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  73. cha (4,139 comments) says:

    An early bid for 2014 Darwin.

    http://www.theoaklandpress.com/general-news/20140224/independence-township-man-shoots-kills-himself-while-demonstrating-gun-safety-deputies-say

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  74. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    nasska – thats fucking hilarious

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  75. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    i must say that i was suprised to strike this expression last night for the first time.

    But upon reflection it must rank as one of the most disgusting P.C. ludicrous terms of
    all time.

    Someone commits suicide and the hand wringing, PC brigade reffer to it as,

    “He was the “victim” of suicide.”

    The VICTIM of suicide ?

    So, no one is reponsible for anything anymore.

    What do you think ?

    (Pete George was the first to use that term that i saw)

    Maybe sumwun could explain how the suicide is a victim ?

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  76. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    “victim” of suicide.”

    strange terminology. an attempt to manipulate how people feel. who could be mad at a “victim”?

    dime has huge empathy with people who are that low they top themselves. but they arent victims of suicide.. maybe sufferers of depression.

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  77. Andrei (2,653 comments) says:

    I love a good metaphor

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  78. Johnboy (17,051 comments) says:

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  79. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Times change.

    Back in the day there used to be a stigma attached to suicide.
    The family of a suicide was ashamed.
    This was a factor that probably caused potential suicides to think again.

    These days it seems that it almost accepted that….
    It is not the fault of the weak coward who could not cope with the problems of life we all face and
    tops himself.

    It is all our fault.

    Legions of handwringers maintain that is is the fault of the bullies.

    It seems that weak drongs who top themselves these days are almost elevated to sainthood.

    They should be derided as they used to be.

    Oh, they were depressed, or
    Oh they were bullied.
    Then we can all understand why they would kill them selves.

    What bullshit.
    We should get real.

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  80. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Come on Admit it

    YOU LOVE JOHN KEY

    and Now want him to Marry you

    and have fantasies about him walking around the Big Gay out

    Half Naked

    with the “NEw” “New”

    New New Zealand Flag

    draped around him

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  81. Pete George (23,804 comments) says:

    victim n. a person harmed, injured, or killed as a result of a crime, accident, or other event or action.
    victim of suicide n person who has killed him- or herself

    It is not the fault of the weak coward who could not cope with the problems of life we all face and tops himself.

    victim of stupidity n. a person who harms their credibility by expressing something stupid

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  82. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    We can all have empathy for people who are that low that they top themselves.

    But, back in the day many of them thought again, paused and went on to lead productive lives.

    The reason they thought again was partly because of the dishonour they would bring to
    their family by committing such a weak selfish act.

    Read the bullshit media these days and it seems that we all accept that suicide is the natural
    expression of being depressed or bullied.
    The potential suicides take this as encouragement.
    Fukin sick.

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  83. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    nice try PG however…

    in your mind where does personal responsibility play any part ?

    Seems nowhere.

    Wanna argue with my point @ 9.31 ?

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  84. Pete George (23,804 comments) says:

    I didn’t say anything about personal responsibility, of course there’s personal responsibility, but it can be much more complex than saying that’s all that’s involved.

    How much personal responsibility a victim of cancer have? A victim of a heart attack? Was smoking or fat eating weak selfish acts?

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  85. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    LISTEN UP COMMIE LOVERS

    AND MASS MURDERER WORSHIPPERS

    GET YOU HANDS OFF OUR FLAG AND IF YOU DON”T LIKE IT

    YOU CAN GET OUT OF OUR COUNTRY

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  86. Pete George (23,804 comments) says:

    Read the bullshit media these days and it seems that we all accept that suicide is the natural
    expression of being depressed or bullied.

    I don’t see anything like that.

    Suicide can be one outcome of bullying or one outcome of depression but most people who have been bullied or who have depression don’t kill themselves.

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  87. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    OK Pete,

    i don’t want to devolve into discussing crap.

    i called you out on your expression, “victim of suicide.”

    Wanna discuss how you feel that a person who commits the ultimate most selfish act of suicide
    is a victim ?

    Explain.

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  88. Pete George (23,804 comments) says:

    I explained the expression. And added ‘victim of stupidity’. Perhaps you didn’t understand.

    Staying alive could be seen as at least as selfish or more selfish than killing yourself.

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  89. stephieboy (3,525 comments) says:

    Ben Dover , is that a Right Wing Resistance mantra of yours.?

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  90. bereal (3,137 comments) says:

    Jeez Pete mate 10.05

    What the fuck.

    i can keep up a discussion to the point when you post the 2nd nonsensensical line above.

    WTF did that mean ? Is that your reason to explain your term, “Victim of suicide.”

    Goodnite mate.

    Wanna try with some cogent argument then i will respond.
    Otherwise good onya and good luck to your family.

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  91. Yvette (2,763 comments) says:

    bereal – You are right. Complete depression is a totally self-centred condition.
    The person becomes so absorbed in perceived negativity they can see no other way of solving the situation but to kill themself. Any element of cowardice probably depends on the method used.
    Depression is not dissimilar to alcohol addiction, with the worst case scenario much the same.

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  92. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    “Staying alive could be seen as at least as selfish or more selfish than killing yourself.”

    jesus pg. never sign up to work at lifeline!

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  93. dime (10,213 comments) says:

    PG the therapist @ 1:25

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  94. Odakyu-sen (865 comments) says:

    The person who kills himself can not be a victim of suicide. (His family and friends are the victims.) Suicide is the result; not the cause. The person who kills himself may have been the victim of depression, of bullies, of other external forces, however.

    Suicide can not kill you; you kill you and in doing so create the act of suicide.

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