General Debate 12 March 2014

March 12th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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168 Responses to “General Debate 12 March 2014”

  1. Harriet (4,528 comments) says:

    Labour are the parent who shamelessly spoils it’s children rotten in order to instill in them a visceral hatred of the other parent who dares to teach that they are responsible for themselves and the consequences of their choices and actions in life. Such is Labour’s craven desire for praise and the power they derive from it at the expense of the infantilisation of large swaths of the public.

    They would gladly create hell on earth as long as they were guaranteed to rule over it. Labour love to accuse conservatives of wanting to play God, but I say we start accusing them of wanting to play Satan.

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  2. stigie (916 comments) says:

    When will Penny be pitching her tent in the square ?

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  3. duggledog (1,362 comments) says:

    Teachers now say they don’t want a bar of performance pay – the new Nat initiatives to get better teachers & raise achievement

    Here’s a message to the Teachers

    You work for the f***ing GOVERNMENT, which is elected by the majority of VOTERS in a DEMOCRACY. You don’t decide; you have input, and that is all. You don’t unilaterally decide the hows and whys and whens. That’s why you are called civil SERVANTS

    It’s no wonder kids can’t be told anything these days!

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  4. Bovver (144 comments) says:

    Crusher looked distinctly uncomfortable being questioned by Paddy Gower last night on endorsing Oravida, now it comes out she did not just drop in but had been invited 2 weeks before. Look I do not want a Labour/Green Government but National need to pull their collective head in and Crusher more so, admit it was mistake and move on, this continual denial is just giving oxygen to the story and allowing Labour some cheap hits

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  5. Morgy (169 comments) says:

    I don’t agree Bovver. The only one giving it oxygen is Paddy and TV3. Not in the Horrid, Stuff, TVNZ (that I could see) and it is a nothing story. Anyone who has ever been in a Chinese business will know how they bring out the welcome mat. When the CEO’s of big businesses are visiting it is even bigger. In a visit a couple of years ago, a couple of other senior execs and I visited a business to be greeted by a fireworks display and such….we weren’t CEO level and we got that. That was news for their business and they sing from the rafters. Watching Cunliffe and more so Robertson is like seeing a kid running up to the teacher saying “HE LIED!” Pathetic. Did you see DC on Firstline this morning? Jesus wept! This fool wants to run the country???
    I expect our ministers to actively promote and I would have been really happy if Judith did endorse Oravida’s products.

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  6. Harriet (4,528 comments) says:

    duggledog#

    “…..Teachers now say they don’t want a bar of performance pay……It’s no wonder kids can’t be told anything these days!…”

    Another Labour outfit, and they’ll hold a union rally before the election – attended of course by school pupils……as I said ‘Labour…….infantilisation of large swaths of the public….”

    Most in labour are infantile.

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  7. Reid (15,970 comments) says:

    Excellent summary of the geostrategic machinations behind Ukraine.

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/02/14/russia-attack-paul-craig-roberts/

    And a short bio on Nuland – guess what? She’s married to Rob Kagan, the founder of PNAC. Isn’t that interesting.

    http://www.bollyn.com/14562/

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  8. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Gower is another example of a Labour activist within media pushing a left-wing agenda. If these types can’t be weeded out, it is time to stop purchasing any products that are advertised within their timeframes of propaganda spreading.

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  9. Left Right and Centre (2,823 comments) says:

    Welcome to ‘word of the day’….

    - Mollyhawk -

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  10. Bovver (144 comments) says:

    You write in jest ‘igm’ a quick scan of the other sides blogs are always banging on about Paddy being a nasty RWJ, I guess from your comment he is squarely in the middle.

    Morgy, if everything is kosher and above board why is JK not releasing the Cabinet Office findings, why does Crusher look on the defensive, and why as a Minsiter of Justice is she promoting milk? I’m a National voter and probably always will be, but this whole episode smells a bit whiffy.

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  11. Harriet (4,528 comments) says:

    “…..I expect our ministers to actively promote and I would have been really happy if Judith did endorse Oravida’s products….”

    So Labour wants Collins to fly into China on Qantas?

    well i’ll be fucked….a labour government and the public missing out on all those public and private shareholder profits. how things change so quickly.

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  12. holysheet (270 comments) says:

    The advertisers have a large amount of power and should use it.

    There is a self styled expert from the agricultural community that I am in. He is always the spokesman for the scientists. When the owner of the major agricultural newspaper approached me for advertising with him and not his opposition, I said as long as you publish the bullshit this expert spouts on about in your paper, you will not get my adverting dollars. Guess what. The editor has been told not to publish anything from this dipshit again.

    If you don’t like something then speak out about it or don’t buy it. TV 3 news is just crap

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  13. Pita (368 comments) says:

    Why is it with modern aircraft, the internet cloud and live streaming, that they still require a black box and a flight deck recorder?

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  14. Bovver (144 comments) says:

    Cost Pita, the airlines do not want to spend millions of dollars upgrading their aircraft to use the latest technology while the 1960′s tech can do the job.

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  15. Ross12 (1,154 comments) says:

    Bovver

    I heard Key saying the other day on radio that he’d be happy to release the papers on the Collins issue but the Ombudsman didn’t want it to happen as it would set a bad precedent.
    Its only because Robertson is trying to get some Press that this issue is still around. Robertson is obviously unable to think of any worthwhile policy areas he covers ( and have not got a clue what they are )

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  16. Morgy (169 comments) says:

    Bovver, Judith is clearly holding back and just wants to rip Paddy apart for asking such stupid questions. Just think….what is this really about? Think about how Labour are playing this. Using terms like “on the taxpayers purse”. That is just targeting the naïve. She was travelling on the taxpayer for government business. She popped into Oravida. It wasn’t part of her trip. Should she list the venues of the 20 minute lunch breaks? If on an evening she went for a walk around the city, is that also disgusting use of Taxpayer money?? They are making a mountain out of a pimple on Robertsons arse. Deflection only. My bet is that 75 – 85% of people don’t give a shit. The best thing about this government is they just get on with it.

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  17. Harriet (4,528 comments) says:

    “….Why is it with modern aircraft, the internet cloud and live streaming, that they still require a black box and a flight deck recorder?….”

    Because of bad weather – during which some planes crash. :cool:

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  18. flipper (3,584 comments) says:

    Bovver…
    Are just dumb…or as thick as pig shit.

    Collins detailed the background to the invitation in the House last week.
    It was a drip in – by invitation that she asked be made in writing, and which she accepted prior to leaving Auckland..

    There was no disclosure on Gower.
    You, in keeping with your pig-like brain . are telling porkies.

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  19. Albert_Ross (251 comments) says:

    Whoa, holysheet. Am I understand that you think it is a good thing, and are actively advocating, that private unelected interests should be able in private to tell newspaper editors what they can and can’t publish?

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  20. Bovver (144 comments) says:

    Hi guys, I recognise this is beltway politics and Labour are going for the cheap hits and as a long shot Crushers scalp but someone in National needs to put this to bed quickly.

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  21. Andrei (2,506 comments) says:

    It would appear that the USA and the EU are going to borrow money from China, who are using the interest they are earning to build a shiny new navy btw, to prop up the junta in Kiev who will use this money to pay Russia the money they owe them for gas

    Boy western leaders are dumb

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  22. Harriet (4,528 comments) says:

    “……Whoa, holysheet. Am I understand that you think it is a good thing, and are actively advocating, that private unelected interests should be able in private to tell newspaper editors what they can and can’t publish?….”

    He never said that.

    He said he wasn’t going to advertise because of what was in the paper that he disagreed with. It’s well and truely legal. It’s the same as the Cathoilc Church saying to a newspaper editor that they will no longer advertise if they keep endorsing abortion – however the conversations usually goes through an advertising salesperson.

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  23. Bovver (144 comments) says:

    Your a real tough guy on the internet flipper

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  24. Morgy (169 comments) says:

    It’s being put to bed naturally Bovver. Last nights 3 News had it as an EXCLUSIVE last night that Key was caught lying. Have a look at the 3 News website now…..nothing there except for a ‘shock horror’ quote from Paddy well below the line. This story fed the dumb and they have eaten and are now sleeping. It will be gone by tomorrow….then again god know what Robertson will cook up this afternoon.

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  25. doggone7 (705 comments) says:

    duggledog; “Here’s a message to the Teachers. You work for the f***ing GOVERNMENT, which is elected by the majority of VOTERS in a DEMOCRACY. You don’t decide; you have input, and that is all. You don’t unilaterally decide the hows and whys and whens. That’s why you are called civil SERVANTS.”

    Surprised at a post at 8.04 when you could have been down at your local school telling the servants what they should be doing and how and why since you’re a VOTER in a DEMOCRACY! I’ll call in at our local (extremely highly regarded) school later in the morning and tell them to be patient and await your arrival. Undoubtedly they’ll need your help to get things right.

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  26. Manolo (13,394 comments) says:

    Convinced by Griff, Richard Branson has surrendered:
    Virgin CEO Richard Branson said that those who are skeptical of man-made global warming should “get out of our way,” joining the ranks of CEOs lashing out against those opposed to business investments in “sustainability.”

    http://dailycaller.com/2014/03/10/richard-branson-global-warming-deniers-get-out-of-our-way/#ixzz2va9HBUak

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  27. kowtow (7,653 comments) says:

    While the joke is mildly funny the punishment is out of all proportion to the “offending”.

    To think the police also investigated this!

    Our freedoms really are endangered.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10675506/Tory-councillor-who-shared-burka-joke-on-Facebook-expelled-from-party.html

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  28. wreck1080 (3,735 comments) says:

    @reid : Ukraine news is old hat, no new developments.

    This weeks topic is plane crashes.

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  29. kowtow (7,653 comments) says:

    manolo

    What do Sir Richard ‘s planes run on,hippie piss?

    Another super rich hypocrite telling us plebs how to live our lives .

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  30. dime (9,470 comments) says:

    “scan of the other sides blogs are always banging on about Paddy being a nasty RWJ. I guess from your comment he is squarely in the middle.”

    That’s because the left are so fragmented, so bitter, so fucked up, that if you don’t agree with EVERYTHING they believe in you are right wing.

    Using the standard you’ve laid out, all it would take would be for 10 of us to comment on other blogs how left wing redbaiter is and then you would say “redbaiter is squarely in the middle”

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  31. Manolo (13,394 comments) says:

    @kowtow: Yes, Branson joins the ranks of Gore, Clooney, Damon, Oprah, and other multimillionaires who know what’s best for the peasants. Add the poor Nick Smith to that list, too.

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  32. twofish (75 comments) says:

    Meanwhile Cunliffe confirmed he had spoken to Jones about straying outside his portfolio areas and using strong language to attack the Green Party.

    He said Jones was a much-valued colleague but occasionally his rhetoric crossed the line. There was a clear understanding not to attack potential coalition partners.

    1] Don’t say anything the masses may consider I, as Leader, should have said first, and
    2] Don’t say anything that emphasizes that of the whole caucus, you are the only one that’s still breathing,
    3] Next time use the right word – now people are arguing over mollyhawk v mollymawk,and ignoring the fucking Greens, and
    4] however highly principled, or even just sensible, don’t fucking say anything that knocks the Greens, who are our only chance of forming a bloody coalition.

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  33. lolitasbrother (486 comments) says:

    Electricity prices
    About that Graph, the Labour party electricity graph.
    I found clearly that the Labour party represented fact.I have good spreadsheets if interested
    The price of electricity in New Zealand is increasing at 10% per year since 2000.
    Before that it was 5%.
    The Whale oil graph was disingenuous as it graphed actual costs at 2011.
    The Labour party never said we have the most expensive electricity
    They said our prices are increasing fast.
    further details at
    paulscottpolitical.blogspot.com
    cut and paste to google to see this is not a political scam, it is a proper assessment
    see
    I will hear anyone who says I am wrong
    paulscottfilms@gmail.com

    paulscottpolitical.blogspot.com

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  34. Elaycee (4,305 comments) says:

    I can’t believe it…. Cunliffe has done another U turn!

    This morning he now declares the Gweens are the ‘logical choice’ as a coalition partner for Labour. Of course, that’s not what he said last night.

    Another flip flop. Situation normal for David Cunliffe.

    Sheesh…..

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9818318/Cunliffe-backs-down-on-coalition-comments

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  35. Manolo (13,394 comments) says:

    Oh, the poor Shame Jones. After Silent T’s telling off the cheely bro should confine himself to watch a few more blue movies.

    He should ask dime for advice. :-)

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  36. Andrei (2,506 comments) says:

    Ukraine news is old hat, no new developments.

    This weeks topic is plane crashes.

    We are just waiting for the 21st centuries iteration of the “Gulf of Tonkin” incident.

    Actually there is plenty happening, its just that it doesn’t fit the narrative of spontaneous democracy breaking out so it is best kept quiet.

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  37. Puzzled in Ekatahuna (338 comments) says:

    Watching Cunliffe and more so Robertson is like seeing a kid running up to the teacher saying “HE LIED!” Pathetic.

    The other way to go was – JOHN KEY CAN”T READ CHINESE!

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  38. jp_1983 (189 comments) says:

    Welcome home HMNZS Te Mana.
    Just returned from their deployment supporting CTF 151, as part of a long-term commitment to contribute to stability and protect trade in the region.

    The frigate and its crew of 182 people arrived off the Horn of Africa in late November 2013 and arrives home today.

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  39. doggone7 (705 comments) says:

    The bloody cheeky of Robertson! It’s about time he learned the rule, to wit, John is allowed to lie and we should all just accept it.

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  40. Longknives (4,470 comments) says:

    It’s looking more and more likely that the ‘Religion of Peace’ was responsible for that plane disappearing.
    The World’s left-leaning media just doesn’t seem to want to come out and say it though..

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  41. Left Right and Centre (2,823 comments) says:

    Hone says how can NZ debate about the flag while there is so much child poverty ?

    So…. when’s a good time for it Hone? There will never be a good time.

    And how do you solve child poverty ? None of my kids are in poverty. Why ? Because they don’t fucking exist. Why ? Because I’m in no position to bring a child into this world.

    And neither were the losers that spawned some pet children with zero resources or parenting skills.

    So nothing else can be debated because of mindless feral zombie shtihead breeders that no-one can stop. Good one Hone.

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  42. Longknives (4,470 comments) says:

    L,R & C- Find a girl and start spitting out kids together. Once you bluff WINZ that you live apart they will start throwing cash at you.
    All the smokes and Woodstock Bourbon money can buy..
    *Don’t spend your DPB on food for the kids though- Feeding them’s the Governments responsibility…

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  43. kowtow (7,653 comments) says:

    Terrible news.

    It looks like the test well 60 k off Dunedin was dry.

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  44. Ed Snack (1,739 comments) says:

    More on MH370, consensus now is that the aircraft has probably been found but they’re not releasing the news. It is in the Malacca Strait near Silver Island (Palau Perak) where it was last seen on military radar. Thus it flew some 350 nm from the point where it’s transponder (and likely other data emitters) were switched off or disabled. Thus it is not an aircraft fault except under some very unusual circumstances. Almost certainly either a hijacking gone wrong or a pilot (or co-pilot) initiated action. So why has the public been mislead for so long.

    Interestingly enough I note that several days ago there was a story about the US Navy participating in the search, with the US aircraft searching the Malacca Strait area back then, so they almost certainly had access to military data. I noticed it back then and wondered about it when all public pronouncements were still centred around the last known secondary radar (Eg position ID’d from transponder data) position off the East coast of Malaysia towards Vietnam.

    There are uncertainties in how the aircraft flew to the West and at what altitude, the translation of the Malaysian airforce spokesman’s words are either at 1,000 metres below last height or at 1,000 metres; there are reported sightings of an aircraft very low near the last known position. However military radar is said to have last detected the aircraft at around 3,000 metres.

    All very strange. I expect that there will be an announcement at some point today.

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  45. Judith (7,670 comments) says:

    @ Left Right and Centre (2,339 comments) says:
    March 12th, 2014 at 9:51 am

    Core blimmey, I bet you feel better getting that off your chest!!

    It does appear that nothing much is going to be allowed to happen until child poverty is solved – my granddaughter is a great campaigner for child poverty – she insists her pocket money be raised in order to address the on-going issue she has!

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  46. kowtow (7,653 comments) says:

    jp 1983

    With all due respect to the crew of the ship, the international mission off Somalia is a massive waste of taxpayers’ money.

    They should take a leaf out of the way navies operated in the past.

    Blow the fucken pirates out of the water where ever they find them,hang survivors from the yard arm.Shore parties to raid and destroy the pirates’ shore bases.

    Ah but today pirates have ‘uman rights and law abiding folk don’t.

    Our politicians are a complete waste of our time and money.

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  47. wreck1080 (3,735 comments) says:

    I see the news is catching up to what I reported yesterday….

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11218252

    NZ trade-weighted index rises to post-float record

    Records are made to be broken, but, effectively the kiwi dollar has reached its highest ever value.

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  48. Fletch (6,029 comments) says:

    Obama, wasting time, making an idiot of himself for a Funny of Die video.
    And this guy is supposed to be a leader?

    http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/18e820ec3f/between-two-ferns-with-zach-galifianakis-president-barack-obama

    Painful to watch.

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  49. Manolo (13,394 comments) says:

    Records are made to be broken, but, effectively the kiwi dollar has reached its highest ever value.

    No need to worry. Labour and Green’s economic policy lunacy will sink the NZD back to USD 55 cents.

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  50. calendar girl (1,176 comments) says:

    Albert_Ross @ 8:46am – ” Am I understand that you think it is a good thing, and are actively advocating, that private unelected interests should be able in private to tell newspaper editors what they can and can’t publish?”

    And newspaper editors can decline to follow such “instructions” if their altruistic journalistic standards are stronger than their desire for filthy advertising revenue. The newspaper editor even has a “right of reply” to expose the businessman in his own newspaper columns (if he chooses to follow that course!).

    There are a couple of important principles involved:
    - freedom of speech (for both the newspaper and the advertiser) to express their respective views in their own chosen ways; and
    - freedom for each commercial enterprise (i.e. both the newspaper and the advertiser) to spend or withhold its own money and resources as it sees fit – in keeping with the established law, of course.

    Your question above tends to imply that you consider some law is being broken by the advertiser. Can you let us know what you have in mind?

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  51. holysheet (270 comments) says:

    “Oh, the poor Shame Jones. After Silent T’s telling off the cheely bro should confine himself to watch a few more blue movies.

    He should ask dime for advice.”

    Or as a means of making up with the gweens “Ask Clint”

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  52. KevinH (1,132 comments) says:

    In so far as Judith Collins and the Orivida matter is concerned Patrick Gower as a press gallery hack is well aware that all Cabinet Ministers wear multiple hats officially and unofficially and would be expected to promote and endorse New Zealand companies in either a private or in a public capacity.There is no conflict of interest here just a matter of a questionable interpretation on Gowers behalf.As an aside Gower is expressing his own cynicism in the manner he constructed the story.

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  53. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Is Lecher Len getting the arse for his fiscal distortions this week or not?
    What about the obese German criminal, has he paid his bills, had his money back from “Tojo” Cunliffe, and got a deal with Winnie? He must be getting close to being arsed out also.

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  54. dime (9,470 comments) says:

    “He should ask dime for advice”

    Dime is always happy to help out a pornography enthusiast :)

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  55. holysheet (270 comments) says:

    “……Whoa, holysheet. Am I understand that you think it is a good thing, and are actively advocating, that private unelected interests should be able in private to tell newspaper editors what they can and can’t publish?….”

    He never said that.

    He said he wasn’t going to advertise because of what was in the paper that he disagreed with. It’s well and truely legal. It’s the same as the Cathoilc Church saying to a newspaper editor that they will no longer advertise if they keep endorsing abortion – however the conversations usually goes through an advertising salesperson.

    “Why talk to the monkey when you can talk to the organ grinder”

    You get a far quicker response if you go directly to the top.

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  56. Fletch (6,029 comments) says:

    All three eLocal magazine articles are up now online regarding the DNA testing of Monica Matumua, one of the Ngati Hotu tribe – who descended from a fair skinned, green eyed, red headed people that were here before the Maori. Maori historically referred to them as the Waitaha, Turehu and Patupaiarehe.

    The magazine arranged for a DNA test for her as part of the National Geographic DNA Ancestry Project. It turns out that her ancestors (unlike Maori) came from the region of Iran, by way of Peru and South America.

    One interesting thing is that the Maori Tiki is actually the Egyptian dwarf-god Bes. Looks like the Haka originates from there as well.

    They also brought with them the beloved little Egyptian dwarf god Bes, entertainer and protector of pregnant women, mothers and children (the tiki). The Maori haka line dance, learnt from the earlier Turehu people, was originally a dance of Bes where the dancer strove to emulate the diminutive stature, bandy-legged, mad-eyed and tongue-lashing grotesque countenance of the foot-stomping, ungainly dwarf challenger.

    All newcomers to the village had first to be vetted and approved by Bes, to make sure they came in peace and posed no threat to the women and children of the tribe. In this world the vicarious representatives of Bes were the menfolk, whose comical haka dance reassured the women and children of the tribe that they would always be protected. Those entering between the portals of the village gates had to pass by a statue of Bes, called Ehi or Wehi in the Maori language (note: there is no “B” in Maori and no “S” and all words have to end in a vowel).

    Ngapuhi Chief David Rankin also believes that Maori were not the first people in New Zealand –

    “There were many other races already living here long before Kupe arrived. I am his direct descendant and I know from our oral history passed down 44 generations”,Ngapuhi Chief David Rankin told elocal.

    “In the Waima ranges, there was a pipi shelter on the mountains, and the kuia used to talk about the fair skinned people up there. A lot of people identify as Paniora (translated as Spaniard), indicating that the Portuguese and Spanish washed up on ancient ships in Northland.”

    “Really, Maori didn’t navigate here, we came on a tidal drift. Te Tai Tokerau is actually the tidal drift from the Tokelau Islands. When my ancestors arrived at the shores of Aotearoa, there were people here to greet them. The question is: who are those people? It goes hand-in-hand with our oral history.”

    And this is kind of telling –

    Many years ago Betty Rowe of Awapawa Island, near Picton in Cook Strait, attended the funeral of a Ngai Tahu affiliated dignitary. The well-known leader convening the tangi was interrupted by a Waitaha protestor using the occasion to bring focus to the disenfranchised Waitaha people, who had been assailed, conquered and dispossessed by Ngai Tahu Maori. The well-known orator at the podium is reported to have, in a sneering, dismissive tone, spat back the comment in Maori, ‘You are nothing, we ate you’, as translated by a Maori friend sitting beside Betty.

    Sadly the land that Monica’s people owned has been taken from them, and they are fighting to get it back.

    Monica is part of the third generation of her family to battle through the Maori Land Court and now the Waitangi Tribunal, to be recognised. As part of the Ngati Hotu tribe, Monica’s family have fought for generations to prove that they are not extinct.
    The original Ngati Hotu people lived near Lake Taupo where the Ngati Tuwharetoa tribe now lives. Sadly the Ngati Hotu people were all but destroyed by neighbouring tribes. Ngati Hotu suffered a major defeat by Ngati Tuwharetoa at the battle of Pukekaikiore to the southwest of Lake Taupo. Apparently some of the survivors settled around the village of Kakahi which lies 30 kilometres west of Lake Taupo.

    They were discovered there by a party of Whanganui Maori who went on to attack the settlement. This is said to have happened in 1450 and Monica says that her ancestors managed to escape from the danger.
    “My great-great-koro Te Piki Kotuku was returning to Rotoiti, down the Whanganui River, when he was chased by eight warriors of Tuwharetoa. He escaped them by hiding under the river bank and released his cloak, his korowai. His pursuers thought he had drowned and so they returned to Taupo. Our land Te Rena was named after his korowai,” she told elocal.
    Although Te Piki Kotuku managed to escape, the majority of the tribe did not and the Whanganui Maori went on to hang the legs of fallen Ngati Hotu warriors from poles in the trees. From there, the tribe was not heard of officially and therefore mistakenly assumed to be extinct.

    Nineteenth century Maori historian, John Grace, described Ngati Hotu in the following manner: “Generally speaking, Ngati Hotu were of medium height and of light colouring. In the majority of cases they had reddish hair. They were referred to as urukehu. It is said that during the early stages of their occupation of Taupo they did not practise tattooing as later generations did, and were spoken of as te whanau a rangi (the children of heaven) because of their fair skin. There were two distinct types. One had a kiri wherowhero or reddish skin, a round face, small eyes and thick protruding eyebrows. The other was fair-skinned, much smaller in stature, with larger and very handsome features. The latter were the true urukehu and te whanau a rangi. In some cases not only did they have reddish hair, but also light coloured eyes.” (See Tuwharetoa, chapter 7, page 115, by Rev. John Grace).

    Sorry for the long post, but it is worth reading all the articles.
    The point is – Maori are bitching and complaining to get “their” land back, when the people that the Maori stole the land off originally are having a hard time trying to get it back, and NZ history is so one-eyed and politically correct that they don’t even recognize the people who were really here first.

    http://elocal.co.nz/View_Article~Id~1076~title~DNA_to_Rock_the_nation_Part_1.html

    http://elocal.co.nz/View_Article~Id~1108~title~Changing_Our_NZ_History._DNA_to_Rock_the_Nation_Part_2.html

    http://elocal.co.nz/View_Article~Id~1148~title~DNA_to_Rock_the_nation_Part_3.html

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  57. goldnkiwi (998 comments) says:

    What qualifications required to be a hangman?
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/9818689/Hangman-quits-after-seeing-gallows

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  58. Ryan Sproull (7,033 comments) says:

    The point is – Maori are bitching and complaining to get “their” land back, when the people that the Maori stole the land off originally are having a hard time trying to get it back, and NZ history is so one-eyed and politically correct that they don’t even recognize the people who were really here first.

    You’re certain that this is your point?

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  59. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    Kevin H

    You cannot defend the indefensible. Key is a serial liar. Pete George, the poor bugger, will be working all hours of the day and night checking Key’s statements. And now we learn that Judith Collins has a problem with the truth. Their credibility is shot.

    The question is: will Collins follow Pansy Wong’s honourable actions and resign? Nah, she’ll probably try to succeed Key as leader. :)

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11218315

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  60. Bovver (144 comments) says:

    @ flipper, paybacks a bitch:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9818950/Judith-Collins-comes-clean-about-dinner

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11218315

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  61. martinh (1,155 comments) says:

    Judith Collins is looking really dodgy here, hiding meals etc, doesnt she understand the public didnt put her into parliament so she could make her husband get richer.
    I suppose DPF wont post on this

    Ross69, Collins cant be leader now, she has shown her true colours and the public dont like it

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  62. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    Reid (15,098 comments) says:
    March 12th, 2014 at 8:17 am

    Your links to Paul Craig Roberts and Chris Bollyn do not provide an “excellent summaries to geostrategic machinations behind the Ukraine.”
    All they provide are flimsy” grassy knoll” based Conspiracy Theories.
    BTW Chris Bollyn has established himself as a noted contributor to the Neo Nazi American Free Press. He has appeared with David Duke too,

    http://911review.com/denial/holocaust.html#davidduke

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  63. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    Yup, Egyptians really really did go to Muric’a too Fletch.
    /

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  64. Reid (15,970 comments) says:

    stephie go to both of those articles and tell us precisely which parts are wrong. For example, is Nuland really married to the founder of PNAC – yes or no?

    I know from your comments you’re an idiot who doesn’t understand anything, but even you should be able to put 2 and 2 together when a PNAC connection is mentioned let alone one like that. Or don’t you even know how to add 2 and 2?

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  65. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Problem is reid your propensity is to add 2 + 2 and get 666 and a hoard of lizard men.

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  66. Reid (15,970 comments) says:

    Best layoff letter ever.

    http://rense.com/general96/bestlayoff.html

    Problem is reid your propensity is to add 2 + 2 and get 666 and a hoard of lizard men.

    Only when they’re there griff. Last time I mentioned lizard men was when? And how do you know I wasn’t joking? But some of you seem to hallucinate that’s all I talk about, ever. You need to start listening and do your own research, lest you be continually surprised at current events.

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  67. DavidR (102 comments) says:

    Reid, I don’t always agree with everything you say, but thank you for the tip the other day about David Pawson and his many teachings on YouTube – fascinating stuff!

    I thought I had a reasonable knowledge of what the bible teaches – I didn’t! The more I know, the more I know how much I don’t know!

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  68. Lance (2,461 comments) says:

    So Reid
    So you think someones employment status should be effected by their political views?

    Sounds friggin extreme far left behavior to me. I hold this silly old idea that someone’s worth is directly proportional to how valuable they are to company and to what they produce.

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  69. Ed Snack (1,739 comments) says:

    Serves me right for believing statements in the press ! It seems that the Malaysian military are now disavowing a supposed statement that they tracked MH370 into the Malacca Strait, and have pulled back to a more general statement that it *may* have turned through close to 135 degrees westwards; hence the search areas in the Malacca Strait area. Both the US and Australian military aircraft (P3 Orions I think) were searching the area up to 3 days ago, one would expect that they would have found it by now if it was in the sea. Perhaps it turned back for some major systems failure and went down somewhere in the mountains ?

    Reports of an emergency message reported in China about the cabin disintegrating also seem false.

    All we seem to know is that contact was lost about 40 minutes into the flight when the transponder was turned off or failed. Two ACARS maintenance messages were also received, but the last before the transponder went down (probably reporting engine data relating to the change from climb to cruise); if there was significant changes to the aircraft and it was capable of sending messages then ACARS would have reported them (Air France 447 did this, via satellite). So either the ACARS system was switched off or the systems failure was so extensive that it was inoperable.

    Passengers on stolen passports also seem to be accepted as normal illegal migrants (not legitimate asylum seekers note) attempting to reach Europe by the cheapest route; and reports of other no-show passengers are contradictory, but best info appears to be possibly 4 no-shows with no luggage loaded for them (this is apparently not uncommon).

    So we’re not left with much. Maybe a massive systems failure with almost total power outage, pilots maybe turn back to nearest possible landing strip. Then ? If it disintegrated in midair close to the last know contact then some debris should have been found by now, not definite but pretty likely. Why the transponder outage, it is supposed to have enough backups to survive most non-catastrophic failures, same with ACARS. Military radar *should* be capable of seeing and tracking something as large as a B777 at the range and height it was at, normal procedure is for the tracking data to be logged for review, maybe they’re inordinately sloppy though. There’s a couple of eye-witness accounts of aircraft, but these are notoriously unreliable.

    There is a lot of activity out West, in the Straits, maybe there’s more evidence than we really are aware of. Current suspicion is that it did turn around and although all the military rules specify logging the tracking data it wasn’t done so there’s a lot of arse covering going on and the military are relying on operators recall not hard data. I do note that the search area goes a long way NW of the Silver Island location previously mentioned, maybe the aircraft was last “seen” there but was on a course heading NW at a steady speed and height so no certainty of a crash in that vicinity. Who can be sure.

    Hey, if this is boring I’ll stop the updates, so thumb it down.

    Certainly gets stranger

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  70. Ross12 (1,154 comments) says:

    Another interesting post on WO re the power price graph from Labour

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/03/labours-power-lies/#more-129113

    This comment on the thread is worth reading :

    “austenpub • 2 hours ago

    The graphs provided bear out my understanding of the history of prices and the reforms. I was CEO of a power company during the reforms. Those reforms involved the power companies selling their retail customers to the new Generator companies during 1999. Each customer was sold for about $450 each. In the case of the company I managed it received $23 million for its retail companies. The following price rises – as shown in the graph – were partly due to the generators having to recover a quicker return on the amounts paid for the retail customers or load (as they saw it). So in some ways the reforms did initiate the price movements during the Labour reign. Also, the novelty of a so called competitive market allowed the generators to gouge customers until the tail end of Labour’s time in office. Certainly Labour did nothing to prevent the price gouging but then the government was receiving large dividends from the SOEs. The public companies – especially Contact – mainly led the price rises so the SOEs were happy to follow. Now that demand and supply are closer pricing should ease! “

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  71. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    Reid, take this piece of inaneness from Paul Craig Roberts from your link,

    T”he Russian government (and also the government of Ukraine) foolishly permitted large numbers of US funded NGOs to operate as Washington’s agents under cover of “human rights organizations,” “building democracy,” etc. The “pussy riot” event was an operation designed to put Putin and Russia in a bad light. (The women were useful dupes.) The Western media attacks on the Sochi Olympics are part of the ridiculing and demonizing of Putin and Russia. Washington is determined that Putin and Russia will not be permitted any appearance of success in any area, whether diplomacy, sports, or human rights.”

    The small problem here is that Roberts provides no evidence of ” US funded NGOs’ etc. Instead we get un sourced sweeping glib assertions. Then the the priceless cant and idiocy that Pussy Riot are US stooges. Sheer mindlessness.
    There was both praise and criticism by Western and other media in respect of the Sochi Olympics .

    Then he starts with other sweeping statements and generalizations re the goals of US Hegemony re post 1991 collapse of the Soviet union. Where is the evidence and facts for that.?

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  72. smttc (692 comments) says:

    martinh, you wally. Collins’ husband is not a shareholder of Orivida. So no. She isn’t helping him get rich by drinking the odd glass of the company’s milk.

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  73. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    Does Fletch and coy really believe this garbage. ?

    http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/john-benefiel-america-cursed-because-ancient-egyptians-dedicated-continent-baal

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  74. kowtow (7,653 comments) says:

    ed snack

    ‘…maybe they’re inordinately sloppy though.”

    They’re Malaysians,so anything’s possible.

    I’m afraid we’re going to have to wait for the flight recorder stuff to be recovered and analysed before we really know anything and that could be quite some time.

    Meanwhile bang away,all very interesting.

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  75. cha (3,779 comments) says:

    The most recent Airliners.net MH370 thread.

    http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/6018945/1/#279

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  76. twofish (75 comments) says:

    Looking now at the pressure Judith Collins has been under for drinking a glass of milk, forgetting to mention who she had dinner with while away, and utterly shocking revelation that John Key can’t read Chinese, has anyone [especially the Labour Opposition] considered asking again what Labour-leaning Pants Down Len Brown did on his secretive trip to China, which he had failed to tell his colleagues about, let alone being up-front [metaphorically] and transparent in informing Penny Bright and the nation in general?

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  77. Maggy Wassilieff (261 comments) says:

    @ Fletch… Why would be surprised that genes from Iran/ Middle-East appear in the DNA of Maori from the King Country?
    There have been families of Lebanese origin (e.g. Karam’s and Haddad’s) settled in Taumaranui and vicinity since the 1890s.

    Back in the 1920s some folks were worried that men of Indian descent were becoming friendly with local Maori lasses and even fathering their children
    http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=KCC19140411.2.28

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  78. Reid (15,970 comments) says:

    Then the the priceless cant and idiocy that Pussy Riot are US stooges. Sheer mindlessness.

    See this is why you’re an idiot stephie, they are stooges and always have been. Whenever you see a media phenomena that’s covered in the west like they’ve been covered, then take it as read it’s a psyop. Just like AGW is a psyop, no difference except in scale, but same propaganda techniques are used in both.

    http://www.sott.net/article/274860-Pussy-Riot-the-US-State-Department-and-Economic-Shock-Therapy

    But of course you wouldn’t know that because you don’t know how psyops work, do you. Perhaps you should educate yourself before you so confidently conclude you know anything at all.

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  79. RichardX (321 comments) says:

    Reid (15,100 comments) says:
    March 12th, 2014 at 12:27 pm
    Only when they’re there griff. Last time I mentioned lizard men was when? And how do you know I wasn’t joking? But some of you seem to hallucinate that’s all I talk about, ever. You need to start listening and do your own research, lest you be continually surprised at current events.

    Any further word on the “pending nuclear detonation in Chicago”?

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  80. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Archology dating puts the earliest inhabitants of nz at circa 1200ce This is confirmed by dna analyse of the rat species introduced by the early visitors. Taking oral tradition at face value over generations is not history its myth. The maori had lost all cultural memory of the moa in a few hundred years since driving the huge birds to extinction. Why would you belive myths so far fetched as white settlers prior to maori ?. Having personally sailed the 1,000knm between nz and the islands I find it doubtful that the whole kupe myth is a true story of migration. I belive that random chance was responsable for populating nz more than a mythical organised migration.

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  81. Manolo (13,394 comments) says:

    Callow youth. Not only their “music” is crap, they believe to be activists too:

    British MP George Osborne can expect a bombardment from One Direction fans after the boyband urged its army of followers to lobby the Chancellor to maintain the UK’s international aid budget and crack down on corporate tax avoidance.

    In an unlikely entry into the political sphere, Harry Styles and his band are offering free concert tickets to fans who join Global Citizen, an international network promoting social activism as a means to end extreme poverty.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=11218329

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  82. mikenmild (10,766 comments) says:

    griffith
    Maori discovery and settlemtn was more than the outcome of random chance – Polynesian navigation methods were actually very sophisticated. New Zealand just hapened to be the most difficult land mass to reach due to the prevailing winds and currents.

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  83. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    Reid your link does not set out anything in the way of proof or evidence. Just the same vague accusations but this gives us an idea where there coming from with this woo,

    http://www.sott.net/article/275421-New-diet-sexual-
    attraction-may-have-spurred-Europeans-lighter-skin

    and,

    http://www.sott.net/article/220432-Fluoride-in-Water-Linked-to-Lower-IQ-in-Children

    Again I choose not to educate myself with your conspiracy based woo and pseudo science.

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  84. Viking2 (11,146 comments) says:

    Reserve Bank to lift rates as housing market cools

    he number of houses sold nationally in February fell 7.6 per cent on a year earlier as tougher lending rules force more first-home buyers out of the market. The monthly drop is the third since the Reserve Bank introduced its high loan-to-value ration (LVR) lending restrictions in October in a bid to cool the housing market.

    ANZ senior economist Mark Smith said sales had fallen 10.5 per cent since October and in February were around 21 per cent below historical averages as a proportion of the housing stock, compared to a 14 per cent gap a year ago.
    ============================

    so it seems that despite its efforts so far Keys man Wheeler is still going to shaft home and business owners..
    Of course it will be based on future projections of the inflation rate.
    HMMM, well they have never been good at that and like the clowns at Treasury proved a day or so back both outfits want a clean out. Too many shiny arses sitting consulting their computers instead of operating in the business world.

    FFs our exchange rate is way high now and as the manufacturing stats that were badly critiqued the other day showed manufacturing for other than milk or logs is rapidly taking a big hit. ( See DPF’s post a day back)

    Imagine what our farmers would be earning id our exchange rate was 15% lower. NZ Inc would be really making progress but no these turkeys seem to think that we should never get above ourselves and really do well.

    Poor decisions based on GDP rather than a measure of wealth generation.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/9819172/Reserve-Bank-to-lift-rates-as-housing-market-cools

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  85. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    As I said mike been there done the miles seen the emptiness. I am aware that trading was going two ways at times as mayor island volcanic glass tools have been found at the Kermadec islands. I just do not find the story of a mass migration convincing.
    As far as I am aware the archeological and genetic history supports small groups landing over a period of century’s rather than a great mass migration within a generation or two as told by the kupe myths.

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  86. mikenmild (10,766 comments) says:

    I don’t think there was ever much evidence for mass migration – the Great Fleet idea was very much a construction of nineteenth century scholars.

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  87. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    griffith, please assure us that these ancient migrants wen’t Celts.?

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  88. Fletch (6,029 comments) says:

    griffith, as I have pointed out before (and if you’ll read the articles), the people in Monica’s tribe have blonde hair and clear eyes, not like the Maori. They also spoke another language entirely (though only a couple of people from her tribe can speak it now).

    Along with the special connection her people have with their land, Monica also speaks of a language which is almost extinct and is nothing like the Maori language that is taught in schools and originates from Nga Puhi.
    “There are only two people in our tribe that can speak our language now and it is nothing like Maori, in fact it is nothing like a language I have ever heard before.”

    If you’ll read the second article, it compares her DNA against what you’d expect of a typical Maori and points out the differences. To add to that, there is a photo in article 3 showing a “tiki” uncovered in Mexico (which is actually the of Egyptian god Bes, and which the Maori seem to have adopted).

    It looks like Maori took many of their customs from the people who were already here, such as their spiral carvings (which are notably absent in the South Pacific lands from which they came), ‘Pa’ forts and the like.

    Many Maori artifacts which have been found in New Zealand have not been found in the countries they were supposed to have originated from. In fact Norwegian ethnographer, Professor Thor Heyerdahl, commented on this also.

    “There is, indeed, no such curvilinear surface design on the wood carvings of the Society Islands and these include the very tall ancestral posts which were erected in ancient Tahiti.” [2]

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  89. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    As Has been pointed out to you. the alleged proof of this assertion is oral history and a dna test on a half-caste . The early sealers whalers and adventures that washed up on these shores interbreed with the natives. This was happening before 1800. As soon as you start talking anywhere else besides the pacific for early settlers you are dreaming. Other than the Polynesian people no civilization had genuine ocean crossing capability untill the 1500s . eich bod yn wallgof.

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  90. nasska (10,689 comments) says:

    Rydych gwreiddiau defaid hyll. :)

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  91. Viking2 (11,146 comments) says:

    griffith (35 comments) says:
    March 12th, 2014 at 2:54 pm

    As Has been pointed out to you. the alleged proof of this assertion is oral history and a dna test on a half-caste . The early sealers whalers and adventures that washed up on these shores interbreed with the natives. This was happening before 1800. As soon as you start talking anywhere else besides the pacific for early settlers you are dreaming. Other than the Polynesian people no civilization had genuine ocean crossing capability untill the 1500s . eich bod yn wallgof.
    ===============================
    Really, what a wanker.
    Plenty of evidence to the contrary and has been for a longtime. Apparently you have your own agenda that supports the Treaty fraud. Go over to NZcpd and read the screeds of information.

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  92. mikenmild (10,766 comments) says:

    I’d recommend anyone seriously interested in this topic read ‘The Quest for Origins’ by Kerry Howe. It’s very good on all the crackpot theories (and why people come up with them) and sets out well what is actually known about New Zealand’s discovery and settlement.

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  93. Longknives (4,470 comments) says:

    I’m horrified anyone would question the ‘History’ that our kids our taught by their sickeningly leftist teachers at school-
    Maori (having deliberately paddled here on ‘waka’ thousands of years ago) were a peaceful,dignified people who were great conservationists and lived ‘at one’ with nature..
    There was no war or violence, and they lived an idyllic, almost Utopian society.
    They also invented everything from tattoo’s to rugby union- being the most advanced race on the planet (Charles Darwin be damned..)
    Then the evil white man arrived, ripped them off ,stole all their land and ruined everything!
    Whitey must pay for these crimes! No amount of compensation can ever be enough…
    Have I got it right NZ History teachers?

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  94. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    V2
    Name one civilization pre 1500 ce that could ocean voyage
    Not island hop and coastal seas like the Norse Greeks or Chinese.
    Cross 1000s of miles of open ocean.

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  95. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Rydych yn llyfu penolau defaid cynrhon

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  96. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    Longknives , where is the evidence that “leftist teachers” actually teach the alleged sanitized version of NZ history you claim.?
    Your not a fan of the Celts as first discoverers of NZ by chance.?

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  97. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    ‘Back in the 1920s some folks were worried that men of Indian descent were becoming friendly with local Maori lasses and even fathering their children”

    I have met Maori of Indian descent . They are very real

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  98. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    :lol:
    Try reading the te tricky rubbish They use to educate the young.
    http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/treaty-of-waitangi/page-1
    New Zealand before the treaty

    In the 1830s an independent, Māori-controlled New Zealand was a frontier outpost of the British penal colony of New South Wales. As New Zealand’s trade and shipping expanded, relations between Māori and Europeans depended on a good working accord, but violence sometimes flared up. British law did not extend to controlling unruly British subjects in New Zealand, so some European residents asked the British government to intervene to maintain order. It was reluctant to do so.

    The British government was more concerned by other developments. European speculators were reported to have purchased vast areas of New Zealand. At the same time the London-based New Zealand Company had firm plans for organised settlement in New Zealand. In 1839 the company prepared to buy land on either side of the Cook Strait, and dispatched ships there carrying several hundred settlers.

    funny I would have thought the violence that resulted with 20% plus of the population being slaughtered and another 40% displaced or enslaved would rate just a little wee mention as antidote to the whalers and sailors attitude to authority.
    The reference to lawlessness is from the missionary’s who were often worse than the alleged lawless as only the priestly class can be.

    Lawless :lol: Where is the metion of the previous thirty years of fucking intertribal genocide.????

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  99. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “the kuia used to talk about the fair skinned people up there. A lot of people identify as Paniora (translated as Spaniard),”

    Spainiards are far from far skinned.

    In fact, brown skinned Italians took a distinct liking to the Maori battalion which left many Maori babies in Italy.

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  100. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    I believe Polynesia and probably Sth America originates from Egypt.

    Didn’t Thor Hyadahl promote that as well.

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  101. Lucia Maria (2,208 comments) says:

    Bloody hell, Reid!!

    Excellent summary of the geostrategic machinations behind Ukraine.

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/02/14/russia-attack-paul-craig-roberts/

    The man writes like he’s an agent for the KGB!! Who do you think has more experience with this type of propaganda?

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  102. SPC (5,397 comments) says:

    Modern DNA science enables some belated checking of various oral traditions – but hardly has any impact on iwi claims (as settlers in possession of land by 1840 when the Treaty was signed).

    Maybe some will be a little more cynical and wait for academic scrutiny of ancient settler claims once they realise that.

    The will to believe hearsay because one finds it politically convenient as a tool to beat fellow Kiwis with is not attractive.

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  103. UglyTruth (4,020 comments) says:

    Again I choose not to educate myself with your conspiracy based woo and pseudo science.

    So you’re still going with the magic bullet theory then, stephieboy?

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  104. Reid (15,970 comments) says:

    The man writes like he’s an agent for the KGB!!

    Except he was Assistant Treasury Secretary in Reagan’s Administration Lucia.

    There’s lots and lots of red pill people out there and frankly, I really don’t get why blue pill people can’t see this world has been going to hell in a handcart for a long long time and why those people haven’t been asking themselves just why this may be.

    People like stephie who writes with the sophistication of a twenty-something philosophy student is understandable, but why others like you who know life can’t or refuse to see it, even though in your case you well know apocalyptic literature, is beyond me since its so appallingly obvious and writ large in flaming letters a million feet high.

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  105. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    Bombshell! New Pentagon Pics Released Prove NO PLANE Struck The Pentagon – It Was A Missile!!!

    Max Keiser Report Have to wonder who took the aerial photos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5C7rmvbXrk#t=53

    all you need to do is look at the weight and burning point of a rolls royce jet engine which would have been attached to the plane… they would still have been lying about among the wreckage if it was a plane that had rocketed into the pentagon and the towers. i cant believe people still think this was all legitimate.

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  106. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Weekend weather
    Lusi is expected to intensify to a Cat 3 (winds 119–157 km/h) cyclone Wednesday evening while moving southeast over the open waters of southern Vanuatu and Fiji.
    Computer models are still predicting Lusi to move out of the tropics (south of 25?South) on Friday as it moves in a southerly direction towards the upper North Island. At this stage, the cyclone is expected to make landfall somewhere between North Cape and western Bay of Plenty during Saturday or Sunday, before re-curving across New Zealand and moving swiftly out over open waters east of the South Island on Monday. The various computer models are still struggling to agree on its future location and speed of movement, but a track over the upper North Island followed by a path over the upper South Island is currently favoured.

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  107. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    wikiiriwhis business,

    This poster has a good handle on things,

    RyanP19 hours ago

    The path of the plane came in on was roughly a 45 degree angle. It didn’t fly perpendicular to the wall it slammed into. This guy is retarded and yes, there were light poles that were damaged and knocked down by the plane. Its hilarious how people dont know this almost 15 years after the fact. 

    Says it all but next tell us where the missing passengers and crew of Flight 77 that allegedly overflew the Pentagon ended up. ?

    You pulling our leg again.?

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  108. Lucia Maria (2,208 comments) says:

    Reid,

    You don’t think the Soviets had moles and sympathisers in Reagan’s administration?

    People like me have historical understanding – that’s why I’m not taken in by that type of propaganda.

    I wish I could give you a brain dump. There’s just too much information, unfortunately and I have to cook dinner.

    But, here’s a couple of questions that will show whether or not you believe Soviet propaganda that has influenced the world for decades.

    Question 1: When did the Soviet Union enter WWII?
    Question 2: Pope Pius XII – Nazi collaborator or saviour of the Jews?

    One book I would recommend: An Army in Exile: The Story of the Second Polish Corps. My Dad was a cadet in this army, my uncles and Grandfather were soldiers.

    There’s many, many more books of course, but the above is the pivotal one. It was for me.

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  109. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth,

    Magic Bullet theory and single bullet fact once more

    https://www.facebook.com/Michael.Brant.Shermer/posts/10151671209021386

    Why do you choose to ignore.?

    Reid , I refuse to believe any of your conspiracy based nonsense.!

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  110. kowtow (7,653 comments) says:

    Computer model can’t track a storm next week,

    but we’re taxed and legislated and bullied on the basis of computer models telling us about the weather in 10,20 even 30 years time.

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  111. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    Some of the woo Paul Craig Roberts is associated with,

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/The_Fall_of_America_and_the_Western_World

    and this piece of garbage,

    http://www.zerohedge.com/article/co-founder-reagonomics-paul-craig-roberts-there-probably-more-democracy-china-there-west

    Just because you were the assistant secretary to the treasury under Reagan, doesn’t make you immune from publishing or believing nonsense. like the above .

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  112. UglyTruth (4,020 comments) says:

    Why do you choose to ignore.?

    What is it that I am ignoring?

    The Warren Commission said that the same bullet that passed through Kennedy’s neck also passed through Connally’s rib and shattered his wrist. Yet the bullet that was said to have caused these injuries did not show any significant deformation, hence the magic bullet theory.

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  113. Lucia Maria (2,208 comments) says:

    Reid,

    The book is quite expensive (I paid $50 American for it in 2005, but it was worth it for me), so there’s this website: A voyage into the Soviet Memory Hole:

    Katyn is but one of many issues caught up in the fact that the Russians think they lost a battle, and the Americans think they won a war. Both of them are still floundering around in their own paradigms, which they both fondly project into all their dealings with each other. The Americans fondly think the Russians are born again Orthodox reformists headed for a market driven capitalist economy, and the Russians still think of themselves as a mighty superpower that can deter any American enquiry as to their acts and omissions by threatening nuclear devastation on all and sundry. Money will still solve all problems for the Americans, and violence will still solve all problems for the Russians: what has changed?

    I think the very system that was responsible for the genocide at Katyn is still holding the reins of power in Russia, so a very good case can be made for seeing Katyn as a litmus test for relationships with the Russians and for assessing the genuineness, or otherwise, of all the claims about change and reform in the former Soviet Union.

    The Russians have never understood that a carbuncle, infecting all in its path as it weeps for your lost illusions or your nations grandeur, is better lanced than suppurating all over your national pride from generation to generation, suppressing any chance of a fresh start.

    Apart from Katyn there are any number of suppurating sores in the history of the Soviet Union [like the Raoul Wallenberg affair], it is just that we are not able to make them reveal, let alone confront their past, hidden by the Yeltsins of the system who in turn have too many skeletons in their personal cupboards. They are scared that if they open one of these cupboards the whole Potemkin facade of “change in Russia” will collapse, so the Soviet communist practices of disinformation, lies, denial and avoidance measures still dominates the Russian psyche.

    The fundamental problem to confront when dealing with Russia in its many guises is that the leadership of the place and their minions have for generations been not immoral, but amoral by any objective measure of humanity.

    What is it that the Soviets/Russians are still covering up in relation to the Katyn Massacre that is so horrendous that they are unable to face it even after all this time? Is this simply the pathetic, insecure blustering of the Russians continuing, or do they really have some other things to admit from the past, or present, that they are afraid will stop the flow of Western money if they are disclosed?

    Are we truly to be thought of as being so stupid that we will not expect any documents from the period between the Nazi discovery of Katyn and the Burdenko media circus to have survived?

    There must have been piles of paper expended setting up the Burdenko Commission and putting out the lies it created and endlessly endorsed. Where are these files?

    Remember the Polish plane of dignitaries that crashed on their way to a Katyn memorial service a few years back?

    Katyn has not yet been dealt with by the Russians, and this website has been around for years. I probably found it about 10 years ago.

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  114. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    U T, You’ve obviously not watched the Video I posted.

    Why.?

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  115. UglyTruth (4,020 comments) says:

    Why.?

    Because there was no good reason for me to watch it.

    The Warren Commission said that the same bullet that passed through Kennedy’s neck also passed through Connally’s rib and shattered his wrist. Yet the bullet that was said to have caused these injuries did not show any significant deformation, hence the magic bullet theory.

    Do you still support the magic bullet theory? If so, please explain how a bullet can shatter bone without suffering any significant deformation.

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  116. ShawnLH (3,499 comments) says:

    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz………………………….

    Elvis has left the building.

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  117. goldnkiwi (998 comments) says:

    Interesting that Fawcett is described as an ex mob member in the msm, does any one know if he actually got his ‘patch’?

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  118. Andrei (2,506 comments) says:

    Katyn has not yet been dealt with by the Russians

    Katyn is hardly a secret Lucyna and there are lots of dead Russians there too. And its not as though the Poles don’t have some nasty skeletons of their own, both from between the wars and in the immediate aftermath of WW2.

    We didn’t do it though and nor did Vladimir Putin, he wasn’t born then and neither were either of us

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  119. nasska (10,689 comments) says:

    I have no idea who invented ballet dancing……

    …….but I’m willing to bet good money it was a bloke trying to sneak into bed after coming home pissed from the pub.

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  120. Lucia Maria (2,208 comments) says:

    Andrei,

    From the link I gave above:

    Perhaps one day Gorbachev closed his well thumbed copy of “What is to be done?”, turned to Raisa and said, “The Polish dead of Katyn is a subject that has been troubling me for some time, but let no one forget that the Soviet people suffered greatly as well, but more so. They are on my conscience as a good Soviet leader, but let no one forget that the Soviet people suffered greatly under the Soviet leaders as well, but more so. I have decided to release documents about this matter to the Polish government and admit the NKVD did the shootings, but let no one forget that the Soviet people suffered greatly under the NKVD as well, but more so. It was unfortunately another case of that Stalin’s cult of the personality inflicting suffering on innocent people, but let no one forget that the Soviet people suffered greatly under the great leader and teacher as well, but more so.”

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  121. Lucia Maria (2,208 comments) says:

    And:

    The Soviet/Russian parliament has never acknowledged the Katyn Massacre as being anything but the event as described in the Burdenko Commission report, let alone a Soviet/Russian responsibility. Indeed there has been quite a concerted move to deny the whole business altogether. The Soviet Army started an investigation with great promise and it fizzled out as most things Soviet seem to, gone without even a whimper, let alone a bang.

    Like children the world over, the Russians are not sorry they shot the Poles, they are sorry they got caught out having done it.

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  122. Lucia Maria (2,208 comments) says:

    From 2013, in our lifetime, Andrei. Still denial by Russians:

    LONDON — In the long-simmering and emotional debate over a notorious mass killing during World War II, the European Court of Human Rights ruled Monday that Russia had failed to comply with its obligations to adequately investigate the massacre of more than 20,000 Polish prisoners of war by the Soviet secret police in 1940.

    But the court said it had no jurisdiction over the massacre itself or the subsequent treatment of the relatives of the dead, prompting an outcry in Poland and expressions of satisfaction among officials in Moscow, underscoring the deep and lingering divisions inspired by the mass killing in the Katyn Forest near Smolensk.

    “We are rather disappointed by this verdict,” said Poland’s deputy foreign minister, Artur Nowak-Far, according to Agence France-Presse. “The ruling does not take into account all the arguments of the Polish side that have here a great moral and historic right.”

    Andrzej Melak, president of the Association of the Families of Katyn Victims, called the judgment “scandalous,” adding that it was “inadmissible and incomprehensible.”

    “The failure to condemn this genocide and the impunity of its perpetrators led to it being repeated in Rwanda, the Balkans, and it will be repeated again,” he said. “Poles will not accept a ruling like this.”

    But in Moscow, Georgy Matyushkin, the deputy minister of justice and Russia’s envoy to the European Court of Human Rights, told the Interfax news agency that the ruling showed that “the court does not have the conventional duty to investigate the events at Katyn” and that it would thus be “illogical” for it to address allegations of improper treatment of the victims’ relatives.

    “The Russian authorities from the very beginning said that these events are located outside of the frame of the jurisdiction of the European court from the point of view of the time frame,” Mr. Matyushkin said. “And this point of view was accepted by the European court.”

    link

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  123. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Just Like the bard nasska
    bawdy rowdy fun for the easily amused becomes the moribund pleasure of those who elevate such cultural relics into high art.
    The cankers always expect the masses to pay for their pleasure whilst trying to limit the modern rowdy bawdy pleasures of said masses.
    Pretty hard to culturefy todays internet porn. :lol:

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  124. nasska (10,689 comments) says:

    ….”Pretty hard to culturefy todays internet porn”….

    I’m giving it my best shot Griff. :)

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  125. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    “…….but I’m willing to bet good money it was a bloke trying to sneak into bed after coming home pissed from the pub.”

    And I reckon the bastard tried to sneak over the style they used in those days nasska (cause they hadn’t invented the Taranaki gate) slipped on the wet planks and on telling his tale of pain and woe to his mate, one Pyotr llyich the Nutcracker was born! :)

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  126. Andrei (2,506 comments) says:

    What’s anybody supposed to do Lucyna? – A war cemetery has been built, with a Latin Cross to mark it, the Polish Flag flies over it and dignitaries Russian and Polish go their to pay homage to the dead, including His Holiness the Patriarch of Moscow and Vladimir Putin.

    Thirty million Russians died in that war, the fascists would come, girls would be raped, their breasts cut off and then be nailed alive to barn doors. Babies had their brains smashed out against trees and were used for bayonet practice. People were herded into barns and Churches which were then set alight burning them alive and so forth – I knew people who witnessed this first hand and when it was over there was no touchy feely counselling to sooth their trauma – no their homes were destroyed and they had to just get on with putting every thing back together and live with the horrors they had lived through.

    WTF

    What concerns me is not what happened then because there is diddly you or I or anybody else can do about it but rather that it doesn’t happen again.

    And to tell the truth it scares me that the next round is about to begin

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  127. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    The old Bob Voyeur is quite cultural nasska.

    I learned much of my French from that internet font of wisdom! :)

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  128. Tauhei Notts (1,611 comments) says:

    Johnboy at 8.37
    Until I read that I thought that only culture about you was the yogurt you eat.

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  129. nasska (10,689 comments) says:

    Was one of those phrases “La bestialité des agneaux” JB? :)

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  130. Lucia Maria (2,208 comments) says:

    Andrei,

    A proper, open to outsiders, investigation would be a good start. The link I gave assumes that the bodies have been burned or ground up in order to cover everything up when blaming the atrocity on the Nazis didn’t quite work.

    People want to know what happened, and there’s only stonewalling from the Russians on this.

    How can you trust people like this? Like John Key with the smacking debate, dealing with the issues surrounding the Katyn massacre is test of character for the Russians. So far they have failed dismally.

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  131. Psycho Milt (2,269 comments) says:

    …the fascists would come, girls would be raped, their breasts cut off and then be nailed alive to barn doors.

    That’s funny, the “fascists” have exactly the same story about when the “communists” came. Nailing live women to barn doors seems to really be a thing in central and eastern Europe – either that or human beings have an unfortunate tendency to make up atrocity stories. Suffice to say, totalitarian dictatorships tend to leave a lengthy trail of dead bodies and are best avoided.

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  132. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    I never eat yogurt Tauhei. It curdles my Scotch! :)

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  133. Psycho Milt (2,269 comments) says:

    …the issues surrounding the Katyn massacre is test of character for the Russians.

    Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Poland had its share of Jew-murderers, Germany and the Soviet Union cheerfully employed gangs of murderers to kill entire categories of people, my own ancestors didn’t hesitate to strap Indians who didn’t like British rule to the front of a cannon and fire it. Who of us feels like volunteering to take punishment for those crimes on behalf of the people who actually carried them out?

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  134. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    None of my sheep are allowed to learn French nasska. It upsets them too much when my butcher pops around to discuss what style I would prefer for my lamb racks! :)

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  135. Lucia Maria (2,208 comments) says:

    Thirty million Russians died in that war, the fascists would come, girls would be raped, their breasts cut off and then be nailed alive to barn doors. Babies had their brains smashed out against trees and were used for bayonet practice. People were herded into barns and Churches which were then set alight burning them alive and so forth – I knew people who witnessed this first hand and when it was over there was no touchy feely counselling to sooth their trauma – no their homes were destroyed and they had to just get on with putting every thing back together and live with the horrors they had lived through.

    You make a deal with the devil – the devil always wins. The Russians invited the devil in with the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. Without that, Poland would have been a buffer.

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  136. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Your onto it Psycho. These poor freedom loving Ukrainians who are being oppressed by Vlad and his minions made up most of the concentration camp guards that pushed the Jew’s into the gas chambers.

    Not to mention those RC Poles that pointed out the dreaded Jew’s to the SS and assisted greatly with their extermination….. Even their own neighbours that they had peacefully co-existed with for generations till they thought they had an advantage! :)

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  137. Reid (15,970 comments) says:

    Question 1: When did the Soviet Union enter WWII?
    Question 2: Pope Pius XII – Nazi collaborator or saviour of the Jews?

    1) If it’s not when Stalin declared war I don’t know, when did they.
    2) I haven’t look at that question – I don’t care because while I’ve looked at a lot of the war Pius was always a bit player whichever way you look at it compared to who did what then. Sure, Catholics care, but I’m not one so I don’t. What’s the answer? I see Google is favouring the revisionist view, but then Google’s been showing its slip lately and trusting that to give you the right results these days is like trusting the NSA when it says it doesn’t have any data on you.

    Lucia I’m not sure how either of your questions relate to your contention Ukraine is about Russian propaganda, not least because a couple of generations have passed since those questions and times change. Both in the West and over there. But hopefully you’ll explicate if you’re still here.

    You make a deal with the devil – the devil always wins.

    Yes he does. The issue is Lucia, was Churchill riding with him as well as both Hitler and Stalin?

    Don’t think so? Google “devils chimney churchill crowley”

    And if you’re specially interested, read this.

    http://solargeneral.com/library/conjuring-hitler.pdf

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  138. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Not much worse hypocrite than an RC Polack having a go at the Russians I would say! :)

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  139. Andrei (2,506 comments) says:

    either that or human beings have an unfortunate tendency to make up atrocity stories.

    um Milt there was plenty of photographic evidence – some of it presented at Nuremberg as it happens. The Germans for some strange reason liked to take photos of their handiwork

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  140. Viking2 (11,146 comments) says:

    I bought a bird feeder.. I hung it
    on my back porch and filled it
    with seed. What a beauty of
    a bird feeder it was, as I filled it
    lovingly with seed.
    Within a week we had hundreds of birds
    taking advantage of the
    continuous flow of free and
    easily accessible food.

    But then the birds started
    building nests in the boards
    of the patio, above the table,
    and next to the barbecue.

    Then came the poop. It was
    everywhere: on the patio tile,
    the chairs, the table .
    everywhere!

    Then some of the birds
    turned mean. They would
    dive bomb me and try to
    peck me even though I had
    fed them out of my own
    pocket.

    And others birds were
    boisterous and loud. They
    sat on the feeder and
    squawked and screamed at
    all hours of the day and night
    and demanded that I fill it
    when it got low on food.

    After a while, I couldn’t even
    sit on my own back porch
    anymore. So I took down the
    bird feeder and in three days
    the birds were gone. I cleaned
    up their mess and took down
    the many nests they had built
    all over the patio.

    Soon, the back yard was like
    it used to be …… quiet, serene…..
    and no one demanding their
    rights to a free meal.

    Now let’s see…….
    Our government gives out
    free food, subsidized housing,
    free medical care and free
    education, and allows anyone
    born here to be an automatic
    citizen.

    Then the illegal’s came by the
    tens of thousands. Suddenly
    our taxes went up to pay for
    free services; small apartments
    are housing 5 families; you
    have to wait 6 hours to be seen
    by an emergency room doctor;
    Your child’s second grade class is
    behind other schools because
    over half the class doesn’t speak
    English.

    Corn Flakes now come in a
    bilingual box; I have to
    ‘press one ‘ to hear my bank
    talk to me in English, and
    people waving flags other
    than ”ours” are
    squawking and screaming
    in the streets, demanding
    more rights and free liberties.

    Just my opinion, but maybe
    it’s time for the government
    to take down the bird feeder.

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  141. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Here’s one the Germans never took Andrei: :)

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/99982/the-treblinka-gold-rush

    Get over it lad. You Catholics are just as big mass murderers as the Nazi’s! :)

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  142. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    I find it difficult to think of an answer to russian aggression.
    Europe needs the cheap gas .
    The USA has just blown significant gdp on two unwinnable excursions.
    Interested how the church is now heavily involved in the political culture.
    Communism morphs into Theological Authoritarianism .
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/07/us-ukraine-crisis-russia-church-idUSBREA260Q520140307
    Russian Orthodox Church sings from Putin hymn sheet on Ukraine.

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  143. Reid (15,970 comments) says:

    I find it difficult to think of an answer to russian aggression.

    Why do you think it’s aggression? Why don’t you recognise it’s defence? As soon as you do, you have the answer.

    The Russian Orthodox being behind Putin is no surprise either. That’s what Pussy Riot was about. Sure Putin’s using them, but it’s no surprise.

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  144. Andrei (2,506 comments) says:

    More sabre rattling Reid – the drums of war are beating and the fools are dancing to their rhythms.

    One small mistake now and Europe will be in flames again.

    70 years since the last time and people have forgotten

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  145. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    If it was the USA they would …….Defend their boundary or oil supply.

    America’s national game vis-à-vis Russia’s national game .

    :lol:

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  146. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    There has been a Vladimir III……. Grand Prince of Kiev in 1154.

    I suspect our current Vlad would prefer to called Tsar Putin The First. :)

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  147. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    No sweat Andrei. You Catholics can sneak under the radar again and deal to the Jews like you always have in times like this! :)

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  148. Andrei (2,506 comments) says:

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  149. Reid (15,970 comments) says:

    70 years since the last time and people have forgotten

    They forgot to look for WWII even when WWI was only twenty years previous Andrei and people haven’t changed. They believe what they want to believe and if they see a hint of something they don’t like they pretend they haven’t seen it because it frightens them.

    I don’t understand it myself but that’s how most behave, seems nuts to me but there we (evidently) are.

    As I’ve said before one thing puzzles me in that Putin is NWO just like Obama is – they all are. That doesn’t mean they all always agree but it means they’re all marching to the same ultimate hymnbook. So do they really want to get it on with nukes and start the main event, or is this just a minor dispute over oil and money?

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  150. hj (6,374 comments) says:

    Oslo rape statistics shock (2001 report)

    Aftenposten (Norway)

    Jonathan Tisdall

    Published in 2001

    The study is the first where the crime statistics have been analyzed according to ethnic origin. Of the 111 charged with rape in Oslo last year, 72 were of non-western ethnic origin, 25 are classified as Norwegian or western and 14 are listed as unknown.

    Rape charges in the capital are spiraling upwards, 40 percent higher from 1999 to 2000 and up 13 percent so far this year. Nine out of ten cases do not make it to prosecution, most of them because police do not believe the evidence is sufficient to reach a conviction. Police Inspector Gunnar Larsen of Oslo’s Vice, Robbery and Violent crime division says the statistics are surprising – the rising number of rape cases and the link to ethnic background are both clear trends. But Larsen does not want to speculate on the reasons behind the worrying developments. While 65 percent of those charged with rape are classed as coming from a non-western background, this segment makes up only 14.3 percent of Oslo’s population. Norwegian women were the victims in 80 percent of the cases, with 20 percent being women of foreign background. Larsen said that since this was the initial study examining ethnic make-up there were no existing figures to put the numbers into context. “Meanwhile, it is our general experience that this is an increasing tendency. We note this by the number of time we need to use interpreters in the course of an investigation,” Larsen said.
    http://www.jeff-goodall.com/?p=3396

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  151. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    What’s Norwegian for “Where am de white wimmin”?

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  152. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    Reid, Obama and Putin NWO.?

    Utter piffle.!

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  153. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Johnboy (13,003 comments) says:
    March 12th, 2014 at 9:43 pm
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    Hell three Catholics allowed out tonight! :)

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  154. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    حيث كل امرأة بيضاء

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  155. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Maybe they’re voting in a new Pope! :)

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  156. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Hell allowed three.
    Is minus kow tow or red blather? :lol:

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  157. Andrei (2,506 comments) says:

    I’m no Catholic Johnboy – no no no

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  158. Reid (15,970 comments) says:

    Reid, Obama and Putin NWO.? Utter piffle.!

    And you’d know this how, stephie?

    How do you recognise a NWO leader when you see one?

    Or don’t they exist?

    Bearing in mind Bush announced them of course back in the 1990′s but you know that already don’t you. Not that he needed to announce them, since those of us who inform ourselves already knew but they like to advertise their intentions, it’s to do with their occult beliefs since they think that if they tell us what’s going to happen then they can’t be blamed for killing us when they do it since they told us all about it but we didn’t listen. For example 911 was advertised all over the place years before it happened, but of course you know all about that too, don’t you stephie. Sandy Hook was in Batman before it happened too. You knew that too, didn’t you.

    Just type in “911 warnings” and pick your category.

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  159. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    I’m hoping it’s Lucia. I could get my jollies every tick if it was! :)

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  160. Psycho Milt (2,269 comments) says:

    Milt there was plenty of photographic evidence – some of it presented at Nuremberg as it happens. The Germans for some strange reason liked to take photos of their handiwork

    Yes, the Jerry perpetrators were a lot more likely to carry cameras, on account of their country being relatively crap at totalitarianism compared to Russia. In terms of atrocities though, really not a lot to choose between them. And modern Russian forces are as adept at executing “terrorists” in Chechnya as their Wehrmacht counterparts in Belarus 70 years ago – I expect there’d even be photographs, were there anyone to arrest the perps and confiscate the photos…

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  161. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Andrei has distanced him self
    :lol:
    Did you get a quite word about not toeing the modern church line?
    Excommunication would be the end point.
    Hell.

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  162. Andrei (2,506 comments) says:

    Gerard Depardieu has a fancy apartment in Grozny Milt, bet you didn’t know that – and just to be clear Grozny is the capital of Chechnya

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  163. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    STOP PWESS.

    Gawith’s speech impediment cwause’s confusion!

    Wrat’s confused with Cwats!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11218496

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  164. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    Reid,

    Recognize a NWO leader.? Tell us what the magic formula or DNA profiling is.?
    But more importanly your factual evidence without necessarily resorting to google or You Tube all the time.?
    9/11 advertised all over the place prior to 9/11/2001.?????

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  165. Reid (15,970 comments) says:

    stephie the field is too big to give you a single article, just like the Bible is too big to give you a single verse that would convince you need to repent.

    So you’re just going to have to follow your own mind toward it picking those subjects you wish, like military, economy, politics or whatever field spins your wheels.

    But there’s no point me giving anything to you since doing so is like giving fine wine to an alcoholic and watching them quaff it and miss the whole point, or casting pearls before swine is the other analogy.

    9/11 advertised all over the place prior to 9/11/2001.?????

    See your question marks illustrate what I just said. It indicates to me you didn’t even take my simple advice and google those words and see what the auto-answer produced and pick your category because if you had bothered to do that tiny simple thing, you would have found the links yourself, but you didn’t want to because you think in your towering ignorance you already know what the answer is. Right?

    Right.

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  166. stephieboy (2,200 comments) says:

    Reid,
    The issue is simple. You’ve made an assertion re 9/11 advertised all over the place prior to 9/11/2001.
    The onus is surely on you to back up that assertion with facts and evidence which you have consistently failed to do.
    Instead you like Twoofers hide behind google and auto answer swallowing anything that it happens to regurgitate.
    Smart use of “your ” critical thinking skills.!

    OMG, One of the more plausible of my finds,

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/opinion/the-bush-white-house-was-deaf-to-9-11-warnings.html?_r=0

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  167. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Honestly stephieboy.
    don’t go there.
    just take Reid as you find him.
    He may be as nuts as a bag of Gobers .
    but he is often right in a twisted way.
    I just right it off as. He has a strange filter in front of his view of the world.

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  168. Manolo (13,394 comments) says:

    The fat lady prepares her troops: http://time.com/20622/hillary-clinton-campaign-2016/

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