General Debate 22 March 2014

March 22nd, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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206 Responses to “General Debate 22 March 2014”

  1. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Can we do politics better?

    Better voter turnout? Better party participation? Better candidates? Better MPs? Better parties? Better political behaviour? Are these all linked?

    The political arena needs to have robust debate, it needs to have keenly contested ideas and ideals, policies and personalities.

    But we have a problem. Our politics often seems dominated by deception and lies, attacks and smears, attempts to destroy opponents and governments. And domination of the dirty dishonest dark arts of politics results in widespread disappointment and disillusionment, and that’s what we have.

    Record numbers of people don’t vote. A number of MPs are frustrated and annoyed at the poor standards of behaviour in Parliament and in the wider political sphere. It’s difficult to attract women into politics, and advance them in politics, and keep them in politics, because of male dominated poor behaviour.

    Some MPs, some party employees and some journalists seem dominate with agendas, diversions, attacks, with a sordid and sensationalist approach. Unfortunately their loud voices and over the top actions get a disproportionate amount of attention. The same applies to political forums in social media.

    Can we do better? If enough people want better and don’t remain passive, pissed off and turned off, yes.

    There will always be politicians and activists who think that anyone who disagrees with their aims and ideals is an enemy who should be dealt to and if possible destroyed. It’s ingrained in their nature, as if they are intoxicated by a quest for power. In a way similar to drunken thugs who think it proves their strength and dominance, or think it’s fun to smash people.

    To diminish the dominance of dirty politics it needs to be confronted. And better alternatives need to be established.

    Most MPs are decent people wanting to do better for New Zealand. They have different ideas on how to make things better but they want things to be better.

    They need to be held to account if they make mistakes or do things they shouldn’t.

    They also need the help and support of decent people who want better from our politicians and our Parliament.

    I decided to become involved in politics because I wanted better politics. I’ve become involved in many things, I’ve gained useful experience. I’ve made mistakes. I’ve made friends. It seems that I’ve enemies. That’s inevitable in politics.

    I now want to focus most on my original goal, doing politics and doing democracy better. I believe we can and we should. To succeed it needs a number of people with a common aim. There’s many people who wish for better out there. We need to stand up more, speak up more, act more positively.

    I’m prepared to reach out to people with similar aims and work together. Some will see it as a threat to their petty, pissy and destructive way of doing things. So be it.

    We can do politics better if enough of us want to, and if we make it happen.

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  2. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    Pete – But dirty politics and a fascination with the inconsequential seems to be all Labour knows how to do. The glass of milk “saga” (aided and abetted by the left-wing (and puerile) media) just being the latest example. Not to forget “Does he stand by all his statements?”, which seems to border on trolling in parliament.

    Good luck with your project, but I dont see that these people can do much better.

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  3. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    PG

    I told someone at work the other day, who doesn’t vote, to keep abstaining because then effectively my vote is worth two votes, so I get to choose how her country is run for her.

    She didn’t like that very much! She is a very nice lady, a professional, earns about 60k, good person. She won’t vote because the whole thing is just boring and a turn off. I explained, patiently, that Auckland Council is in debt to the tune of $14,500 for every rate payer of which she is one. Was she OK with that? No. National has racked up billions, for various reasons; was she happy with that? No. Still can’t be bothered.

    I can’t for the life of me figure out why someone wouldn’t just go shopping on line, and look at the various parties on offer, figure out what their policies are and then go down to the polling booth. Just twenty minutes out of three years!

    We get the representation we deserve

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  4. nickb (3,687 comments) says:

    Pete, that novel might have some credibility if you had taken the large log out of your eye representing Peter Dunne. Your post could have been written about him..

    You’ll probably reply that I have proven your point or something similar. But you have shown on here that you are as ready as anyone to play gotcha politics, yet at the same time you project yourself as being above it all. Doesn’t wash with me I’m afraid.

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  5. Paulus (2,632 comments) says:

    I see that the people of Flockton Basin in Christchurch want the Government – that means you – to make this
    Basin a Red Zone so you can pick up the costs of their houses.
    Why live in a Basin – not the only one in Christchurch. The Council have all this information readily available.
    Council’s responsibility – they gave the ok to build there, against professional advice, that a basin is flood plain.

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  6. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    Those kind people who donated to poor Teresa Kati’s Facebook appeal for money to save her “absolute honey” of a pitbull called Dante will be feeling mixed emotions this morning. Let’s just be glad that it wasn’t a child that Dante tried to rip the head off.

    Pitbulls are dangerous dogs, and anyone keeping one as a pet, especially with five and four-year-old children in the house, needs their head read. I witnessed a pitbull attack an elderly man several years ago, and it was horrific.

    I hope the Napier Council throws the books at Ms Kati. If you can’t afford a dog, and have to beg to get the money to meet your legal ownership requirements, then the answer is pretty self-evident.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/03/another-sad-pitbull-story.html

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  7. wreck1080 (3,923 comments) says:

    This story couldn’t have been made up any better.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/dog-mauled-death-in-front-kids-5870855

    Abridged…
    Dante, a 2-year-old red-nose pitbull, was caught by animal control officers late last month and was due to be put down on Monday, March 10.

    His owner, Teressa Kati, 23, could not afford the $532.30 Napier City Council wanted for unpaid registration fees and desexing fees, so she took to Facebook to see if anyone would pay the fees and make him their own.

    “In a local newspaper article on March 14, she described Dante as “an absolute honey” who loved being cuddled and playing with her two kids, Fury-James, 4, and Lahtezia-Lust, 5.

    Instead of offering Dante a new home, people donated money – enough for Ms Kati to pay the fees.

    Dante went to her sister’s house in the Napier suburb of Maraenui and was put on a run in the back lawn, where another dog, a 7-month-old shar pei named Terror, was on a chain.

    Dante got off his run on Thursday night and mauled Terror to death.

    Terror’s owner said his children witnessed the attack, which left the lawn covered in blood.”

    So, the names of people and pets in this story include the words…. Terror, lust , dante , fury, Lahtezia. The pets in the childrens lives are 2 of the worst kind of fighting dogs i the country.

    And, what kind of government department allows a girl to be called LUST, even if it is her middle name.

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  8. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    duggledog – “We get the representation we deserve”

    Except if they are that uninterested they would probably vote on the basis of bullshit, obsolete slogans such as Labour are for the “worker” and Greens are for the environment or John Key looks nice.

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  9. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    Maybe it’s not such a bad thing that so many have so little interest in political debate, or even voting. I would rather not encourage those who cannot really be f***ed because they are the monkeys most likely to vote for free bananas. Which I will have to pay for.

    I think come election time, most voting people do switch on to how their country is being run, they talk about politicians, policies, they remember things that have happened in the last three years and based on a general perception of whether the country is ‘heading in the right direction’ or not they cast their fickle vote.

    I’m struggling to think of anything bar the glib ‘John Key and his Rich Mates’ that will still be resonating with anyone outside The Beltway’ come September. Not milk. Not PGF. Which is why I reckon Key could govern alone.

    However going into Clark’s final election, so much was swirling around. The speeding, the painting, in recession before the GFC hit, you know the rest. It caught up with her, people decided she was indeed a bad egg, there was a statesman like figure ready to go and down she went.

    Ain’t no statesman like figure in the Opposition for voters to choose. Well except in his own mind…

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  10. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    Kýrie, eléison….

    >:-(

    Gerald Ridsdale, one of Australia’s worst paedophile priests, told one of his victims ”it was the Lord’s work”, a court has heard.

    Another victim said his belief that the Catholic Church hierarchy had known what Ridsdale and other priests were doing was reinforced by Cardinal George Pell’s evidence to the Victorian parliamentary inquiry into child sex abuse last year.

    Cardinal Pell told the inquiry he had only recently discovered that former Ballarat bishop Ronald Mulkearns had destroyed documents relating to sexual abuse allegations. Bishop Mulkearns was responsible for shifting Ridsdale and several other priests around parishes after concerns were raised by families.

    [...]

    On one occasion, Ridsdale wiped away the girl’s tears after abusing her and told her what had happened was ”our little secret”. He told the girl he loved her and she was his special little girl before giving her a white bag of boiled lollies.

    When the young girl decided to tell one of the nuns what Ridsdale was doing to her, she was told ”good little girls don’t talk about such things – off you go”.

    In her victim impact statement, the woman told the court that she had trusted Ridsdale because ”he represented God and all that was good”.

    http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/court-hears-paedophile-priest-said-sex-abuse-was-the-lords-work-20140318-350ey.html

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  11. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    Actually I think we have one of the cleaner political arenas here. What we consider to be dirty politics is childs play relative to what happens in the USA et al.

    I’m still dumbfounded at the level of political apathy. Perhaps its because there is a sense that the machinations of government don’t actually have that much impact on our day-to-day lives. At a local government level I do believe we have way too many elected officials relative to our size. The last local Wellington elections we were voting for DHB, city council, regional council etc… honestly do we need 3 separate city councils and a regional council for a population less than 400,000??

    It is hilariously funny that activists on both sides of the spectrum attempt to portent the end of the world if an election doesn’t go the way they want it to. And yet, the sun comes up the next day. People go to work and pay their bills. People are only galvanised to action if they feel really strongly about changing something. A low voter turnout is generally a vote of confidence in the sitting government IMHO.

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  12. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    “Don’t Vote = Don’t Complain” – can’t really get much more simple than that I guess.

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  13. OneTrack (3,114 comments) says:

    KS – My question is why haven’t the Napier City Council already destroyed the dog and sent her the bill. She could do a collection on Facebook to pay for it. And it seems like WhaleOils Stupid First Name Syndrome was running riot in this family.

    Why are pitbulls even legal to own? We seem to have regular “accidents” and nobody does anything. Is this a case of we want to see the human bodies first? What could go wrong with that approach?

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  14. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Englishman Gabriel Makhlouf, secretary of the NZ Treasury, is naïve about New Zealand’s geography.

    In a piece in the Hooerald today, he is quoted talking about NZ’s Asian “neighbours”.

    As someone pointed out recently, Beijing is closer to Paris than it is to Auckland, and there are flights from Europe to Tokyo over the North Pole that take less time than the Auckland-Tokyo flight.

    Even Canberra is quite a bit further from Jakarta than London is from Istanbul, but Makhlouf surely wouldn’t talk of Britain having Middle-East neighbours.

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  15. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    @ One Track – I agree. And I would suggest that if ever there was a case where CYFS should pay a discrete visit to make sure that young children are not going without because there mother has/had TWO dogs which she could not afford, it is this one. Who in their right mind would have a pitbull around young children?

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  16. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Re Wreck’s 9.03 post about the pit bull killing a Shah Pei pup.

    Very nasty incident. It’s interesting though, that Shah Pei are also a fighting dog breed. Perhaps they are the pitbulls of China, made to look cute by toilet paper advertisements.

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  17. uncle_tom (14 comments) says:

    WineOh, if you think democracy is limited to voting and complaining then you can keep it – I’d prefer to have the CCP running the show to that kind of democracy. Pete talks about “doing democracy better”. Democracy goes way beyond voting and complaining – it allows and requires civic participation at all levels – even at such lowly levels as the freedom to type whatever one thinks on a blog like this :)

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  18. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    Jack5 (4,132 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 9:19 am

    Englishman Gabriel Makhlouf, secretary of the NZ Treasury, is naïve about New Zealand’s geography.
    ==========================

    Ha, would I be the only person in NZ unimpressed by this fellow?

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  19. Viking2 (11,488 comments) says:

    uncle_tom (4 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 9:24 am

    WineOh, if you think democracy is limited to voting and complaining then you can keep it – I’d prefer to have the CCP running the show to that kind of democracy. Pete talks about “doing democracy better”. Democracy goes way beyond voting and complaining – it allows and requires civic participation at all levels – even at such lowly levels as the freedom to type whatever one thinks on a blog like this :)
    =====================

    As per the model used in Switzerland. You think. No debt, strong currency.

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  20. Nostalgia-NZ (5,220 comments) says:

    KS, no comment on the latest Roy Morgan. You and Pete wouldn’t want to try being consistent would you? This poll coincides with the Justice Minister’s memory lapses and confusion, giving plainer meaning to a wider perception that Labour will sew about who is looking after who. I’ve liked the praise smiling assassin – a characteristic I believe JK should have demonstrated once again to lance the image of a Minister feathering her own nest. Of course this view is only because of a decision the Minister made on Bain – yeah right, if only life were so simple and black and white that people where influenced so much by a single event they lost the capacity to reserve good judgement on other events as they unfolded. The only similarity between the Orinda affair and the compensation issue is the Minister’s inability to separate her personal life and views from the administration of her role as a Minister. Compare this sort of crap to the work of Bill English and how easily it can be undermined to the public by someone exercising self interest.

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  21. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    nickb – I’ve participated in a wide range of political activities, it’s been very good experience for what I’m doing now. I’ve hardly ever represented anyone but myself and haven’t represented anyone but myself for some time, until now.

    In politics there’s always going to be someone trying to knock you, it’s part of the game. But more openness and honesty in politics will be welcomed by most people.

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  22. Left Right and Centre (2,986 comments) says:

    Record numbers of people don’t vote.

    Record numbers of people are morons.

    It’s difficult to attract women into politics, and advance them in politics, and keep them in politics, because of male dominated poor behaviour.

    Could be. They’re also not into a lot of other traditionally male dominated or ‘male-orientated’ careers or interests.

    Eg: Most of the talkback callers talking oval ball codes – men. Why is that I wonder ?

    Most MPs are decent people wanting to do better for New Zealand. They have different ideas on how to make things better but they want things to be better.

    I don’t know if they can really do a lot to make it better, but they can do a lot to fuck it up. You want smart people in charge who won’t do really dumb things we hate.

    In a way similar to drunken thugs who think it proves their strength and dominance, or think it’s fun to smash people.

    I think this might be some of the non-voters… hahahaha. But you’d love them to get drunk – rock along to the polling station – vote – and smash someone up on the way out – just because there’s always one and how funny would that be to read on Stuff ?

    In countries like NZ – we’ve got 21st century technology – never had more journalists to sift through all of the political bullshit for you – I don’t see a huge problem. Who are they fooling ? Are they fooling David Farrar ? No. Are they fooling the large majority of KB visitors ? No. We’ve got freedom of press, freedom of speech, people can read – and most people have got enough free time to devote at least a small amount to informing themselves and trying to make sense of what’s going on and why.

    Why – with KB alone I’m not quite so much the sorry ignorant son of a bitch that I was the first time I stumbled upon it late 2012.

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  23. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    We get the representation we deserve

    If we just accept that and let them continue with crap then yes, we will keep getting crap.

    I think we deserve better and am determined to do what I can to get better from politicians and Parliament.

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  24. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    New York Times editorial:

    Maybe One Less Union Jack

    Prime Minister John Key of New Zealand wants to get rid of his country’s flag. Earlier this month, he promised a national referendum in which citizens would choose a new flag design to replace the current one, a blue ensign with Britain’s Union Jack in the upper left corner and four stars of the Southern Cross, which has flown over New Zealand for more than a century.

    That flag proclaims New Zealand as a South Pacific outpost of the British Empire, which is precisely why Mr. Key wants to abandon it. He thinks it shackles his country to its colonial past and is unrepresentative of the racial and cultural diversity of 21st-century New Zealand. (The nation’s biggest city, Auckland, is more diverse than London or Sydney.) Those on Mr. Key’s side argue, too, that their flag is nondescript and derivative; it looks very much like Australia’s flag, for which it is often mistaken. The New Zealand Herald recently published a graphic of 30 flags from around the world based on the British flag, writing: “Somewhere in here is the N.Z. flag, lost in a sea of blue and Union Jacks.”

    Mr. Key favors a simpler design — a silver fern on a black background — used by New Zealand’s national sports teams, including its famed rugby squad, the All Blacks. A poll published Wednesday by The Herald found a slim majority in favor of keeping the current flag, but among the 40 percent who wanted to change it, most preferred the fern.

    While some critics are dubious about using a sports symbol — arguing that a country needs a flag, not a logo — The Herald was on the mark when it urged Mr. Key in an editorial to go bold and not leave momentous aesthetic decisions in the hands of a committee of politicians. “The selection of a design to be put before the public should not made by senior ministers,” the editorial said. “It should be entrusted to a panel of vexillologists, artists and designers.” That makes sense. For practitioners of vexillology — the study of flags — an opportunity like this does not come often, and they are surely eager to make the most of it.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/22/opinion/maybe-one-less-union-jack.html

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  25. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Pete George (21,639 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 8:18 am

    Mostly a good post Pete, and I agree. But you are not going to find many like minded people in here however, in the wider community there are many people who are sick to death of the dishonesty, lies and manipulation from our MP’s – so much so that many simply refuse to vote – which is not the way to bring about positive change. But when all representatives from all the parties are tarred with the same qualities, what are they meant to do?

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  26. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    I wonder how the charter schools are working out …

    One of New Zealand’s first charter schools is urgently searching for teachers and has turned to outside help for lessons just over a month after opening its doors.
    The rocky start comes as the Government starts to sort through who it will pick for more charter schools next year, and after official misgivings about the school’s readiness to open.
    Te Kura Hourua ki Whangaruru, one of two charter or “partnership” schools in Northland, is currently advertising three teaching positions.
    The small school opened last month just south of the Bay of Islands with about 70 students and a fulltime teaching staff of five.
    It now needs a fulltime te reo Maori teacher, a fulltime English teacher and a part-time science teacher, after a teacher walked away just weeks into the first term.
    The school’s curriculum director, Natasha Sadler, did not return calls this week and staff members could not be contacted.
    Katrina Casey, the Ministry of Education’s head of sector enablement and support, said a fulltime staff member had recently left the school.
    “The school has arranged to supplement its teaching by providing students with some correspondence school lessons and teaching through Northland Polytechnic,” she said.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11224096

    Hmmm, a teacher:student ratio of 1:14 (state schools can only dream of ratios like that) and the students are doing correspondence or Polytech courses!!

    What a rort. But hey, the teacher unions hate it so that’s all that matters right? Who cares how much it’s costing.

    Now let the downticks begin ….

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  27. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Pete George (21,641 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 9:42 am

    Sounds very much like changing the flag is a forgone conclusion because Key say’s it has to be done. That goes down like a cup of cold sick. The article does not point out that the country even wants to change the flag, only that Key does.

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  28. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Nostalgia, all Judith Collins did was to have the presence of mind to see the serious flaws and gaping holes in the Binnie report , acting on it and naturally unwilling to countenance a compensation claim based on it. A very,very different set of issues than raised by the so called ” Orinda Affair. “

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  29. Pete George (23,591 comments) says:

    Judith – I know that most of the most vocal on blogs won’t care for that but they are only a small part of the readership.

    But when all representatives from all the parties are tarred with the same qualities, what are they meant to do?

    It’s hard not to be drawn into the fray, I know from experience. But there’s a will in some parties to improve political behaviour, and if they get encouragement and support from outside Parliament – and reminders when they get sucked into the shit fighting – I think progress can be made.

    Being tarred doesn’t stop you from doing better. Experience makes you better informed about what you’re dealing with.

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  30. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy (805 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 9:46 am

    Absolute rubbish. Collins acted inappropriately – the ‘peer review’ she used for a basis for her rejection was not and never can be regarded as a ‘peer review’ because of the manner it was commissioned, constructed and administered. A legitimate peer review has a prescribed process, none of which Collins followed.

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  31. Harriet (4,975 comments) says:

    PG#

    “….To diminish the dominance of dirty politics it needs to be confronted. And better alternatives need to be established…”

    What’s the point? – Until they get rid of the private members bills then CORRUPTION will remain in NZ Politics!

    NO one wanted prostitution legalised. Or anti-smacking. Or gay marriage. These are not matters like that of ending slavery!!!!

    We have MMP for a reason – FOR MINORITY VIEWPOINTS. Private members bills have been nothing more than a corruptive influence on political parties. The Democractic system is NOT working in NZ Pete.

    Why people still vote for National is fucken beyond me Pete.

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  32. EAD (1,128 comments) says:

    I was going to post this on the “debt” thread but that seems to have died a death but there are currently huge geo-political maneuvers taking place right now between Russia and China and how they trade with each other by dumping the US dollar:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-21/petrodollar-alert-isolated-west-putin-prepares-announce-holy-grail-gas-deal-china

    I love the concluding paragraph:

    “To summarize: while the biggest geopolitical tectonic shift since the cold war accelerates with the inevitable firming of the “Asian axis”, the west monetizes its debt, revels in the paper wealth created from an all time high manipulated stock market while at the same time trying to explain why 6.5% unemployment is really indicative of a weak economy (criticising Russia), blames the weather for every disappointing economic data point, and every single person is transfixed with finding a missing airplane.”

    I think Juvenal said the Roman populace could be distracted from from serious issues by “Bread & Circuses”.

    Same as it ever was.

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  33. Nookin (3,354 comments) says:

    Judith

    What do you mean by legitimate? Given your use of the term “prescribed process” I have to conclude that you believe there are legal principles associated with the process. Where are they? I frequently decide to get my opinions on particular issues “peer-reviewed” before I act on them. Sometimes I do it formally, sometimes I do it at a meeting or over the phone. I put a proposition and my justification and I point out what I think of the strong points and the weak points on both sides. It is something that happens all the time. Is not that what Judith did, albeit in much more detailed fashion? Is that now illegal, unreliable or in some way fatally flawed?
    Your criticism of Collins can only have some substance if she was acting in bad faith, if her criticisms had no justification and she chose a lapdog to rubberstamp preconceived views. In other words, you are saying that all parties associated with that process acted dishonestly. I do not want to open a debate on that saga and I imagine that nobody else here does either. I simply want you to answer the first paragraph. Why is it illegitimate and where is the process prescribed

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  34. calendar girl (1,242 comments) says:

    PG @ 9:34 – “I’ve participated in a wide range of political activities, it’s been very good experience for what I’m doing now. I’ve hardly ever represented anyone but myself and haven’t represented anyone but myself for some time, until now.”

    Can you tell us, please, what is meant by “what I’m doing now”. And who are you representing now? I’ve read carefully your outline in the first comment on this thread. It speaks of “… dirty politics … needs to be confronted … ” and “… better alternatives need to be established.” But what practical actions do you have in mind?

    You have also said “I’m prepared to reach out to people with similar aims and work together.” How? And what’s the process you propose for your doing that?

    Recently I saw somewhere that you are now Editor (or a similar title) for an entity that appears to have taken on the role of deciding which political statements made by politicians or parties are fair and accurate. If that’s what you’re talking about here, can you please lead readers to where we can examine in detail the proposals, methodologies and philosophies / backgrounds of those who make such judgements. Thanks.

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  35. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Judith , on what legal basis do you make the assertion that Judith Collins acted inappropriately in respect of the peer review of the Binnie report and what exactly is the “prescribed process ” that you allude to.?
    Also remembering that any decision to pay compensation is purely a discretionary made by cabinet and given the fact Bain did not meet the cabinet guidelines.
    Regardless, the facts remain Binnie himself made numerous errors of assumption and fact that e.g the Police alone in their report identified at least 60 ,

    http://davidbain.counterspin.co.nz/forum/full-text-of-errors-and-concerns-found-by-police-in-binnies-report

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  36. RichardX (326 comments) says:

    Jack5 (4,132 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 9:19 am
    Englishman Gabriel Makhlouf, secretary of the NZ Treasury, is naïve about New Zealand’s geography.
    In a piece in the Hooerald today, he is quoted talking about NZ’s Asian “neighbours”.
    As someone pointed out recently, Beijing is closer to Paris than it is to Auckland, and there are flights from Europe to Tokyo over the North Pole that take less time than the Auckland-Tokyo flight.
    Even Canberra is quite a bit further from Jakarta than London is from Istanbul, but Makhlouf surely wouldn’t talk of Britain having Middle-East neighbours.

    Distance alone does not define neighbours. How many countries would a Briton have to pass to get to the Middle East? How many countries does a Kiwi pass to get to Asia?

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  37. Nostalgia-NZ (5,220 comments) says:

    Don’t forget to take every chance you get to push the barrow of your failed case stephieboy, very impressed by the link to the defamatory site. At least Kent fronted up, pity you Vic and others did a runner. Must be hard to follow but I was making the point about the question of the Orinda ‘affair’ and how it may have influenced the latest poll, followed by whether or not personalities should arise above political pragmatism – in election year they should not, at least not in a negative way that might influence an election result.

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  38. flash2846 (287 comments) says:

    @ Pete George
    March 22nd, 2014 at 8:18 am

    It appears Pete some people will give you the ‘thumbs down’ regardless of how inspirational your post might be. Thumbs up from me :)

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  39. publicwatchdog (2,613 comments) says:

    In my considered opinion, it seems that this issue of NZ Justice Minister Judith’s Collins corrupt, corporate cronyism ain’t going away any time soon, and it IS (as I predicted) hurting National.

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/business/qoa/50HansQ_20140318_00000006/6-justice-minister%E2%80%94visit-to-china-and-potential-conflict

    6. Justice, Minister—Visit to China and Potential Conflict of Interest

    [Sitting date: 18 March 2014. Volume:697;Page:16731. Text is subject to correction.]

    6. Rt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Leader—NZ First) to the Minister of Justice: Does she still stand by her claim that Oravida business was not discussed at her dinner in Beijing at which Oravida personnel were present as well as a senior Chinese Government Customs official?

    Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Justice) : Yes, but I do need to correct the member’s question. As I have said before, guests at the dinner included a senior Chinese Government border control official and Ms Margaret Malcolm.

    Rt Hon Winston Peters: Can she confirm, therefore, that she and Margaret Malcolm are fluent in Mandarin, and were therefore able to understand everything that was said during the dinner?

    Hon JUDITH COLLINS: No. I can, however, assure the member that I am fluent in English and I can understand when someone is talking to me in English—normally.

    Rt Hon Winston Peters: That being the case, can she confirm that because the senior Government customs official—or border official, as she says—did not understand English, he said nothing to anyone during the dinner and just sat there mute the whole time?

    Hon JUDITH COLLINS: The senior Chinese Government official did have some English, but it was limited. I did my very best to talk about what a great country New Zealand is.

    Rt Hon Winston Peters: Is she saying that there was a dinner meeting involving a senior New Zealand Minister, an adviser, a senior Chinese customs or border official, and business personnel from Oravida, which is having trouble with customs and entering China, and yet not one person during that dinner mentioned that subject?

    Hon JUDITH COLLINS: Yes.

    Rt Hon Winston Peters: Given that she said that there were language issues at that meeting when the Prime Minister spoke to her on this matter, did he question her public assurance that Oravida business and customs entry problems were not discussed, knowing, as he did, that neither she nor Ms Malcolm speak Mandarin and therefore could not give such an assurance?

    Hon JUDITH COLLINS: Given that it was a very short dinner—

    Hon Annette King: How short?

    Hon JUDITH COLLINS: —well, it was a very short dinner—and the language being spoken was English, or forms thereof, I actually can give that assurance to the Prime Minister.

    Rt Hon Winston Peters: Given the acknowledgment that the border customs official spoke little English at all, is it not a fact that her claim that Oravida business was not discussed was false, as is the Prime Minister’s claim of receiving such an assurance from her, which means that both she and he—the Prime Minister—are knowingly involved in a cover-up of a serious breach of the Cabinet Manual?

    Hon JUDITH COLLINS: I challenge that member’s assumptions, and I would have to say that since I was there and he was not, he should stop making it up.

    Grant Robertson: Why will she not reveal the rank or identity of the Chinese official?

    Hon JUDITH COLLINS: Because I have been advised by the Prime Minister’s office that we never reveal those matters.
    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/roy-morgan-poll-has-collins-scandal-denting-nats-support-ck-153612

    “Roy Morgan poll has Collins scandal denting Nats’ support”

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________________

    There is a LOT more to come on this disgraceful story of corrupt, corporate cronyism, which straight goes to the top ….

    In my considered opinion, corrupt Minister of Justice Judith Collins is being protected by corrupt, ‘shonky’ Prime Minister John Key.

    PS: Don’t forget, that on Minister for Justice Judith Collins’ watch – New Zealand STILL has yet to ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption.

    Why?

    Because our NZ domestic legislative anti-corruption framework is not yet in place.

    One of the things NZ URGENTLY needs, is a genuinely Independent Commission Against Corruption.

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    http://www.pennybright4mayor.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/ANTI-CORRUPTION-WHITE-COLLAR-CRIME-CORPORATE-WELFARE-ACTION-PLAN-Ak-Mayoral-campaign-19-July-2013-2.pdf

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  40. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I now want to focus most on my original goal, doing politics and doing democracy better. I believe we can and we should. To succeed it needs a number of people with a common aim. There’s many people who wish for better out there. We need to stand up more, speak up more, act more positively.

    A noble goal, Pete, but the roots of the problem run very deep, back to the Roman Empire and beyond. In my opinion it is better to abandon the current state than to attempt to fix it. The law of the land is not dependent upon the state, so abandoning the state does not imply abandoning due process or descending into anarchy.

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  41. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    Penny

    Sold your house yet?

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  42. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Penny

    Has someone bought your house yet ?

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  43. dirty harry (502 comments) says:

    Latest breaking news from the International Airlines awards 2014…Malaysian Airlines has scooped the award for the best mystery escape weekend…

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  44. Sofia (858 comments) says:

    In my considered opinion, corrupt Minister of Justice Judith Collins is being protected by corrupt, ‘shonky’ Prime Minister John Key.

    Yours is the considered opinion which sees your house being sold out from under you.
    QED

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  45. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Nostalgia, wherever you are.?Me do a runner.?? On what basis do you make that assertion when I was not a party to the proceedings,?

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  46. dirty harry (502 comments) says:

    you sexy woman you Penny Bright..what are you doing tonight…

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  47. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    Breaking – Fauux News and WorldNutDaily wingnut commentator Erik Rush reports:

    The CIA went into action, in concert with the DOD and Boeing engineers. They commandeered Flight 370 en route, digitally, without the foreknowledge of the pilots or crew, diverting it to Diego Garcia. I imagine that’s where the aircraft made that now-infamous and mysterious turn just northeast of Malaysia.

    So essentially, the CIA double-crossed the Chinese before they could double-cross us.

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  48. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    cha, that will get Reid,UT, wiri etc wound up and going into their Conpiracy and paranoid overdrive.!

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  49. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    “you sexy woman you Penny Bright..what are you doing tonight”…

    You are a very dirty man Harry !~

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  50. Ross12 (1,432 comments) says:

    Despite all his anti foreigner , anti Chinese rhetoric I see Winston is swanning around China at the moment.

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  51. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    You can’t do democracy any better. It is a failed system to begin with that simply allows one mob to steal from another, and then to swap places when the parties change. Democracy will always lead to bread and circuses.

    If we want less bread and circuses, we need less politics.

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  52. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    A tanking currency, markets in free fall, a bond rate double that of Greece – who ya gonna call Mr Putin.

    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-truth-about-russias-economy-2014-3

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  53. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    …that will get Reid,UT, wiri etc wound up and going into their Conpiracy and paranoid overdrive.

    Actually stephie I was just thinking how like you cha was, in that s/he apparently doesn’t know how to think, either. (By assessing veracity based on the site not on the content.)

    The only new thing that came out of that was this gyro but it’s all possibility at this stage so personally, I just file it away and see what happens.

    But the difference between you and I on this stephie is that your mind is so closed and tiny I imagine that you have already instantly dismissed it possibly partly because in your tiny limited worldview you cannot conceive the CIA etc would ever do such a thing being the good guys you hallucinate they are. I know different, based on history and real events, but because you can’t bring yourself to look at it like that, you’ll continue being one of the many millions of useful idiots, lost and happily deluded in the matrix, without even knowing you’re in it.

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  54. Manolo (13,837 comments) says:

    Little or no class: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2586367/Beijing-hotel-workers-fed-Obama-entourage-3400-square-foot-8-350-night-suite-inconveniencing-pretty-ladys-mother-barking-staff.html

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  55. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    You can’t do democracy any better. It is a failed system to begin with that simply allows one mob to steal from another, and then to swap places when the parties change. Democracy will always lead to bread and circuses.

    Democracy and mobocracy are not the same thing.
    Mobocracy can be called democracy just as a group of conspirators can be called government.

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  56. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Afternoon Minus?

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  57. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    cha, that will get Reid,UT, wiri etc wound up and going into their Conpiracy and paranoid overdrive.!

    DERP

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  58. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    “you sexy woman you Penny Bright..what are you doing tonight…”

    Knitting my fucking barbed wire I hope! :)

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  59. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    Interesting. http://www.mutualist.org/

    I’m willing to admit when I get something wrong. On another thread I put all of the Anarchist Left into a very small box. My bad. So while versions of the Chomskyite anarchist Left still appall me, this group sounds saner and much closer to my own views. Perhaps there are forms of the anarchist Left and anarchist Right that can find common ground?

    I would be curious to know what Ryan and Yoza think of mutualism.

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  60. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    “you sexy woman you Penny Bright..what are you doing tonight…”

    Packing?

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  61. publicwatchdog (2,613 comments) says:

    The plot thickens ……………….

    “6 March 2014

    NZ Prime Minister
    John Key

    OPEN LETTER / OIA request – re: the alleged ‘conflict of interest’ of Minister of Justice Judith Collin’s perceived endorsement of Oravida milk.

    Dear Prime Minister,

    Please provide a copy of the advice purportedly provided by the Cabinet Office, upon which you are relying, which substantiates your following reported statement:

    Prime Minister John Key said the Cabinet Office “unequivocally .. said no there’s no breach.”

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    …………………

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11214597

    Collins told Oravida its milk was ‘nice’

    By Claire Trevett

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption/ anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’ ”
    …………………
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________

    ” 21 March 2014

    Why is Prime Minister John Key’s Chief of Staff, Wayne Eagleson still replying to Official Information Act requests addressed to Prime Minister John Key?

    Why are OIA requests not going STRAIGHT to the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet, (DPMC) instead of apparently being effectively filtered through the ‘party political’ Office of the Prime Minister?

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption / anti=privatisation Public Watchdog’ ”

    ………………………….
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________

    REPLY FROM WAYNE EAGLESON, CHIEF OF STAFF, OFFICE OF THE PRIME MINISTER:

    ” 21 March 2014

    “Dear Ms Bright

    Official Information Act Request for Information Relating to Advice on Ministerial Conflict of Interest

    I refer to your Official Information Act request of 6 March 2014 for “a copy of the advice purportedly provided by the Cabinet Office [in relation to the alleged conflict of interest of Minister of Justice Judith Collin's perceived endorsement of Oravida milk] upon which …[the Prime Minister is] relying, which substantiates … [the Prime Minister's] following reported statement: Prime Minister John Key said the Cabinet Office ‘unequivocally …said not there’s no breach”.

    The information you have requested is not held by this Office and is more closely related to the functions and responsibilities of the Cabinet Office, Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet. Accordingly, I am transferring your request to the Cabinet Office under s 14 of the Official Information Act.

    Yours sincerely,

    Wayne Eagleson
    Chief of Staff”
    _________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Why did this OIA not go STRAIGHT to the DPMC in the first place?

    Answering OIA requests is NOT the job of the party political ‘Office of the Prime Minister’ – END OF STORY.

    http://cabinetmanual.cabinetoffice.govt.nz/2.50

    “Conduct, public duty, and personal interests

    Managing conflicts of interest

    2.69 Ministers must ensure that any conflicts of interest are promptly addressed. The Secretary of the Cabinet (and, where appropriate, the chief executive of the department concerned) should be kept informed of conflicts of interest as they arise.

    In addition, the Prime Minister should be advised in writing of conflicts that are of particular concern or that require ongoing management. If in doubt about the appropriate course of action, Ministers should consult the Prime Minister or the Secretary of the Cabinet.”

    http://www.dpmc.govt.nz/dpmc

    “Administrative support to the Prime Minister

    This includes preparation of replies to Parliamentary questions, and dealing with Official Information Act requests and other correspondence. A totally separate body, the Office of the Prime Minister, also advises the Prime Minister: it is the primary point of responsibility for managing political issues and relationships with other political parties and for providing administrative and media support.

    STRUCTURE
    DPMC formally came into existence on 1 January 1990, as a result of a report which recommended establishing structures to provide two separate streams of advice to the Prime Minister; one, a new government department to supply impartial, high quality advice and support to the Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC), and another, a Prime Minister’s Private Office (which is not part of DPMC), to provide personal support and media services, and advice of a party political nature.”

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________

    Quite frankly – in my considered opinion, any person from the Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet (DPMC) who has given advice that Minister of Justice Judith Collins has not breached the Cabinet Manual for her ‘perceived’ endorsement of Oravida milk , is unfit for duty and should be sacked.

    That is of course, if such ‘advice’ was ever given to Prime Minister John Key in the first place?

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

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  62. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    I wonder at what stage Duncan Garner is going to announce his intention to stand (on the list no doubt) for the Labour party?

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  63. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    “you sexy woman you Penny Bright..what are you doing tonight…”

    Ah…Not paying her outstanding rates bill? :)

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  64. ShawnLH (5,285 comments) says:

    Violent Liberal fascist charged:

    “A feminist studies professor at a California state university is facing criminal charges after a videotaped run-in with a teenage pro-life demonstrator in which she snatched an anti-abortion sign and appeared to get physical with the girl. ”

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/21/university-california-santa-barbara-feminist-professor-charged-in-confrontation/

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  65. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    Look on the bright (definitely no pun intended) side, at least she might be shit scared to leave her house lest the council move in and evict her bludging arse.

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  66. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    The Labour List is getting rather shorter as the election nears BB. An intelligent man like Garner would hold off I suspect! :)

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  67. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Was that bludging or bulging BB? :)

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  68. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Will they cut off her water along with her arse? :)

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  69. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    Take your pick Johnboy

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  70. chiz (1,145 comments) says:

    Finally, the media asking the hard questions: CNN asks if black hole swallowed MH370.

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  71. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    A black hole????

    Stop it for fuck sake, you will only kick Reid off again.

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  72. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    It’s bloody parked up in Somalia under a camo net while the Al Qaeda chaps install the bomb for fuks sake! :)

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  73. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    “you sexy woman you Penny Bright..what are you doing tonight…”

    Someone needs to ask her out for a good time to take her mind off all this corruption stuff

    like maybe Johnboy, Dirty Harry, BB…..not me, im too busy !!

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  74. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    “not me, im too busy !!”

    You popping over to nasska’s place for the Saturday night, rural, pot luck, wife swap then are you stigie? :)

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  75. publicwatchdog (2,613 comments) says:

    Did you whining Kiwibloggers (you know who you are) support the rort of Metrowater ‘charitable payments’ – which myself and and other Water Pressure Group members managed to get stopped?

    Forgotten that little historical FACT have you?

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK0710/S00262.htm

    Failed to give any credit where it was due on that one – have you?

    No surprises there ………..

    Penny Bright

    ‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

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  76. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    “You popping over to nasska’s place for the Saturday night, rural, pot luck, wife swap then are you stigie? ”

    You know me Johnboy…extremely flexible…!

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  77. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    Finally, the media asking the hard questions: CNN asks if black hole swallowed MH370.

    Nah chiz, the big fella’s getting all rapture ready or something….

    http://www.annegrahamlotz.com/blog/2014/mar/where-have-all-people-gone/

    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/don-lemon-cnn-guest-wonder-whether-something-supernatural-happened-to-malaysian-plane/

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  78. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    “Failed to give any credit where it was due on that one – have you? ”

    No Penny. None of us actually give a fuck.

    Don’t ask us for a hand out when your leftie mate Len repossesses your hovel either.

    We’ll be to busy laughing to notice! :)

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  79. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    “It’s bloody parked up in Somalia under a camo net while the Al Qaeda chaps install the bomb for fuks sake!”

    Don’t be so bloody silly Johnboy. Everybody knows that Judith Collins has hijacked the thing, she had parked it in China as a pay off for shoving business her hubby’s way.

    But fear not!, the Labour party lap dogs Garner and Gower will be all over the story come Monday.

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  80. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Will that be the Wong Tung Bung Bomb bb? :)

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  81. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    @ Viking & Uncle Tom

    It wasn’t my intention to imply that politics is about voting and complaining. The adage implies that if you don’t vote, you waive your right to complain. I believe it was on an advertising campaign run by the electoral commission some years back. Its about participating in the process rather than letting apathy take over.

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  82. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Anyone know if Minus is OK? Hasn’t been around for a while. I get worried when my fan club disappears! :)

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  83. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Who is this Minus fella Johnboy ? Not our good mate Nasska i hope ?

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  84. goldnkiwi (1,312 comments) says:

    March 22nd, 2014 at 9:46 am

    What on earth is Orinda? If Oravida is what is meant I had never heard of them as a company before but find them hard to miss now, what great publicity that they sell milk to China. ;)

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  85. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Nah stigie it’s the bastard that gives me a minus for every post I make, disregarding the erudite nature of the odd one or two of them. I have come to regard the poor deprived creature as almost a friend and have just noticed that he/she hasn’t been downticking as usual. I am concerned as to his/her welfare! :)

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  86. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    Is he a Cantab?

    Speaking of Cantabs, has anybody seen or heard from my old mate D4J?

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  87. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Was it someone Johnboy that didnt approve of that romance between you and Nasska perhaps ?

    Have to be rather sick if they didnt !

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  88. Gulag1917 (930 comments) says:

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  89. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    From what you and bb have just said I am beginning to suspect that Minus is a Canterbury ram stigie! :)

    D4J seems to have faded away bb. I quite liked some of his rants.

    Sort of like Phil the Magpie. I hear he is 6 days drug free…….and his comments have lost some………dots! :)

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  90. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Nice to see you back Minus. I was a bit worried about you! :)

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  91. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    “Sort of like Phil the Magpie. I hear he is 6 days drug free…….and his comments have lost some………dots! :)”

    By day 10 he will be angry, frustrated, bitter and twisted, but his punctuation will be clearer im sure !~

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  92. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Shit…how come all the down ticks Johnboy, who have you upset now ole chap ?

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  93. stephieboy (3,163 comments) says:

    Reid earlier asked me why I don’t accept Conpiracy theories especially of the kind he and his ilk ( UT, wiri etc) propose. The reasons are outlined on this link below .In a nutshell , I refuse to accept any proposition what I calk “grassy knoll stuff” that is not capable of some form of objective and emperical verification through a process of rational and reasoned analysis.
    Vague and sweeping generalized observations with their

    perceived anomalies,coincidences and oddities that are stock and trade of Conpiracy theories are simply not good enough,

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Conspiracy_theory

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  94. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Everybody stigie…everybody.

    But I enjoy doing that! :)

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  95. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I also refuse to calk conpiracy grassy knoll theories too stephie! :)

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  96. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    It’s not so much the grassy knoll that I refuse to calk.

    It’s the fucking conpiracy that really pisses me off! :)

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  97. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    You have appear to have drawn the minus monster upon yourself by conferring with me stigie! :)

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  98. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    I know Johnboy, i am a disgrace…sorry.

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  99. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    It’s nice to have you as an alternate target though stigie! :)

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  100. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Pete George:

    Your write-up on the Politicheck website is fascinating.

    Pete’s experience and non-partisan quest for all things truthful make him the ideal candidate for this job.

    The truth often has shades of grey. So when did this non-partisan quest begin, Pete? Before your love-in with Peter Dunne? After your obsession with Colin Craig?

    RESPONSIBILITIES:

    The buck stops with Pete. Should any piece of evidence slip through our rigorous process he will be the one to discern if we should go ahead with making the publication and with which truth rating. The face of Politicheck NZ, he will be responsible for making sure that the data submitted to the website is true and accurate. He will be directly accountable for any bias and will strive to improve our processes should they prove insufficient.

    Wonderful!

    So here’s a truth test for you:

    Judith (5,285 comments) says:
    March 21st, 2014 at 2:08 pm

    @ Keeping Stock (9,696 comments) says:
    March 21st, 2014 at 2:04 pm

    Another person ready to confirm that this decision is a political one, and not within the objectives of the Act, in which gambling harm is the issue. Well done.

    Peter Dunne has a lot more to answer to than simply accepting an invite from Sky City to a rugby match or whatever on the issue of problem gambling. He was fortunate his most involvement was in a time that no one paid a great deal of attention to such things – however … :-)

    I have no idea what Judith is on about. So, Pete, can you apply your non-partisan and truth-seeking expertise for the benefit of all New Zealanders, and give us your truth rating on Judith’s claim, please? :)

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  101. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Yea, i dont really mind Johnboy, its nice being part of a well respected fan club !!

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  102. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Reid earlier asked me why I don’t accept Conpiracy theories especially of the kind he and his ilk ( UT, wiri etc) propose.

    I haven’t proposed any conspiracy theory to you ever stephie and I didn’t ask why you don’t accept something that I and “my ilk” propose, either. I don’t care what you think, so why would I “propose” anything to you? Please don’t hallucinate and if you really think you have to respond to anything I say then pray quote me in future, so you don’t get all confused.

    If you’re curious, I merely told you above that you can’t think, and you can’t. It’s not a “theory” for example that JFK was not killed by Oswald acting alone, if you think that’s a “theory” then you’re a moron. Same with the 911 official explanation being a bunch of childish bollocks is not a theory, either. What actually DID happen on both those days ARE theories, but the official explanation being a bunch of bollocks both times isn’t, because for example on the latter you can drive a scientific truck through it, using the laws of thermodynamics and physics. It’s also not a theory that the US was behind the installation of the current govt in Kiev.

    All the evidence for all these things is out there if you care to look, but the reason I’m so very scathing of you and your ilk, is because you and ilk can’t be arsed looking because before you even start you’ve already decided what the real answer is so the only thing you look for is “evidence” to back up your pre-conceived view. Which is why I say you can’t think, because you and your ilk can’t if that’s what you do, which IS what you and your ilk do. Case closed.

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  103. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Stephie
    Pretty much every one of those 60 points is arguable and just the police trying to cover up their own backsides. There are also numerous errors of fact made by them e.g. stating that the detective manual didn’t contain a directive to cut out the skin around Robins head wound when it did, It is sour grapes from the police trying to justify pick up the pieces of their failed case which is a trainwreck!
    It is like the original 1997 PCA or Police covering arse investigation declaring the investigation ‘copybook’

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  104. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Say what you like about Peter Dunne. He has never been known to drink milk in the presence of any of the hairdressers who have created his pompadour! :)

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  105. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Johnboy:

    He has never been known to drink milk in the presence of any of the hairdressers who have created his pompadour!

    Have you submitted that “fact” to Pete for a truth rating? :)

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  106. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Johnboy (13,088 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 3:21 pm

    Nice to see you back Minus. I was a bit worried about you! :)
    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5

    That’s interesting. Minus is breeding! :)

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  107. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (13,089 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 4:37 pm

    Good afternoon – I’m sorry to inform you that it’s to do with the initial ‘J’. I too get lots of thumbs down, and there is no way it can be anything I write! :)

    PS It can’t be breeding, if you put two minus’ together, surely you’d get a positive, wouldn’t you?

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  108. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Johnboy (13,090 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 4:30 pm
    Say what you like about Peter Dunne. He has never been known to drink milk in the presence of any of the hairdressers who have created his pompadour! :)

    That thing wasn’t ‘created’ – it came from the deep dark depths of the swamp. It is merely resting, waiting, until we stop giving it attention, and then it will call all other such beings together, and take over the world! Believe me, that thing was NOT made by man!

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  109. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Good grief Judith and here was me thinking that you write shite and I write erudite prose and it was just some lowlife, ill-educated scum that couldn’t tell the difference. :)

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  110. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (13,091 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 4:46 pm

    Oh no, don’t get me wrong, I do that as well ! ;-)

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  111. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Fucking Minus is everywhere today, never had so many !~

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  112. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Indeed you do Judith! :)

    I have to pop off and cook dinner now in my capacity as head man-slave at my place of residence. I look forward to future discussion later on :)

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  113. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ stigie (574 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 4:54 pm

    I look at it as some sort of community service. As long as minus is ‘ticking’ on me, he/she/it/they/the pod/herd/flock/gaggle is leaving someone else alone. :-)

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  114. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    You caught him/her off me stigie. Its sort of like ringworm, school sores or nits. :)

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  115. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Stephie
    I suppose you think you are giving your argument credibility by using police arguments such as “factual errors made by Binnie….”, when if you actually objectively look at their report, you will find most of the factual errors are made by them.
    But you are not exactly capable of that are you!

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  116. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    As long you are not being picked on Judith, the flock will help you out.

    With Johnboy’s help, we will have it eradicated anytime soon !~

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  117. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ stigie (575 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 5:02 pm

    Perhaps that is what they mean when they keep telling me to get ‘flocked’?

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  118. muggins (3,787 comments) says:

    Rowan,
    As you are well aware that Canadian judge believed David Bain may well have been wearing those glasses that were found in his room, at least on the days prior to the murders.
    Surely Binnie must have read the retrial transcript. Therefore he would know Bain lied about those glasses, both in his evidence -in-chief and under cross-examination. Why then would he believe anything else Bain told him?
    He appears to have been predetermined to find Bain innocent. In my opinion Bain would have had to have confessed to the murders before Binnie would have said that he wasn’t innocent on the balance of probabilities.

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  119. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

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  120. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Oh Bain, Bain, Bain and more Bain. Couldn’t we discuss something less controversial, like climate change?

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  121. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I’d be prepared to give you a good flocking Judith as long as you sent me a photo first and suitable notice regarding when I should pop some Viagria! :)

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  122. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild (7,933 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 5:11 pm

    I was actually thinking that we should discuss whether religion is to blame for climate change, as well as 9/11 – and whether climate changed has caused the tension in the Crimea, and which of all of these are responsible for MH370?

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  123. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Yawn
    Muggins
    You are one to talk about lying!, we can always tell when you have another lie, you make another post here, similarly your wife would be able to tell when you are lying, your lips move.

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  124. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (13,095 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 5:12 pm

    Just get in that kitchen and cook some f’ eggs.

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  125. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Isn’t there a special site for Bain nutters?

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  126. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Fuck off Judith. It’s roast chook and veg and it’s ok at the mo cause the wife’s taken over again! :)

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  127. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

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  128. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (13,097 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 5:19 pm

    Thank goodness for that – roast chicken is far more ‘politically correct’ for you than roast lamb.

    I am glad your wife is supervising you in the kitchen – there are some things men should never be allowed to do alone :P

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  129. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    That’s unbelievably sexist of you Judith; you’ll never get an invite to my place for my perfectly cooked pork belly, with the best damned crackling you’ve ever eaten ;-)

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  130. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    The Guy at 2:30 that kicks the girl back onto the balcony really deserves a DB Reid! :)

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  131. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Keeping Stock (9,706 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 5:26 pm

    awww, really? My sexism would be the only reason I never got invited to your place for a nice feed? Now that’s a shock!! :P
    I love pork, but it doesn’t like me very much!

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  132. Steve (North Shore) (4,564 comments) says:

    There is more than one minus. I think they are a group of mentaly retarded dropkicks who are trying to influence some sort of poll on pluses v minuses.
    Got to be Green – they are the craziest ones.
    Anyway, how come I don’t get them?

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  133. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I wouldn’t pork Judith KS. She just doesn’t appreciate quality! :)

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  134. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Johnboy (13,099 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 5:32 pm

    The Guy at 2:30 that kicks the girl back onto the balcony really deserves a DB Reid! :)
    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

    How the fuck can I get two instant downthumbs for that comment for fucks sake????? :)

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  135. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (13,099 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 5:37 pm

    One doesn’t need to appreciate quality, when they are ‘quality’! ;-)

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  136. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Sorry Judith darling I’m lost in your translation/riposte/whatever that you just said at 5:40

    Please explain?

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  137. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (13,101 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 5:42 pm

    That was more than two minutes ago, do you really expect me to know what I was meaning that far back?

    PS I am blonde.

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  138. muggins (3,787 comments) says:

    Rowan,
    I see you are yawning again.
    And of course David Bain didn’t just lie about those glasses.
    He lied to Binnie about having that tattoo done “spontaneously”.
    He lied about being dirty when he came home. Or if he was dirty then he must have had a shower because there was no dirt on him when the police arrived.
    He lied about not having a key to the lounge.
    He lied when he said he didn’t know his sister Laniet was a prostitute until the police told him.
    He lied when he said he couldn’t recollect those blue track pants that were in the wash, the ones Karam said belonged to his father, would be interesting to know how Karam came up with that one.
    He told Binnie his father was going to have a room in the new house. At trial he said his father wasn’t going to be part of the new house . So either he lied to Binnie or he lied at trial.
    He told Binnie he had since walked from Heath Street to 65 Every Street and it took him quite a bit longer than three minutes. Like to know what he meant by ” quite a bit longer”. One of the members of the JFRB group walked that walk in 2m50 at the age of 61. Another member with dodgy knees walked it in 3m32 at the age of 70.
    Bain told Binnie he couldn’t drive without his glasses and then in the next breath he agreed that he drove to get the fish and chips on the Sunday night. But it would appear Binnie believed he was probably wearing glasses when he did that.
    He told Binnie he hadn’t been wearing his mother’s glasses at any point since he took his in to be fixed on the Thursday.
    Another lie, but one that Binnie apparantly picked up on.
    Bain told Binnie he seperated the whites from the darks and then he put the darks in the washing machine. But there where whites in the washing machine.
    Another lie.
    And what about that goat story? If that wasn’t a lie I will eat my hat.
    Something else for you to yawn over.

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  139. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Of course not Judith. I was merely trying to tease you out on matters regarding “porking”.

    Sexual proclivity amongst folk that intermingle is of course of great interest here! :)

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  140. muggins (3,787 comments) says:

    http://www.goodtricks.net/david-blaine-street-magic-tricks.html
    Perhaps we should discuss David Blaine.

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  141. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    ps: But are you truly blonde Judith? :)

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  142. RichardX (326 comments) says:

    Reid (15,198 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 5:11 pm

    Good spoof on the actual question asked of real contestants;
    ‘Should evolution be taught in schools’

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  143. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    Imbeciles unite to out-do each other in the moron vs village-idiot world champ playoffs.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/sellotape-selfies-take-over-from-no-makeup-selfie-as-the-latest-online-trend-9206203.html

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  144. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (13,103 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 5:55 pm

    ps: But are you truly blonde Judith? :)

    afraid so! Was actually born with red hair, and then it went blonde, much to my mother’s disgust. She wanted a little ginger haired princess with curls, not a blonde tomboy with dead straight hair

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  145. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I’ve seen uglier folk than them at the Naenae Hotel Reid and none of them needed sellotape!

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  146. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Post us a selfie of your pubic hair Judith so we can tell if your being honest here! :)

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  147. Reid (16,509 comments) says:

    I’ve seen uglier folk than them at the Naenae Hotel Reid and none of them needed sellotape!

    Yeah the last one looked strangely familiar, I’m sure I’ve seen him round Parliament, I think he’s the Gween’s chief economics advisor.

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  148. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    No Judith pubic area videos have popped up yet. :)

    We all wait with baited breath! :)

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  149. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    I found a grey pubic hair today. I wasn’t as freaked out as the two women in the lift with me.

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  150. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ johnboy

    yeah right!

    You first sunshine!! :P

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  151. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I never realised they had buildings tall enough in Ekatahuna to need lifts nasska? :)

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  152. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy

    The fact is we had a bit of a problem sowing the pasture last year, with spring being so damn hot. With no neighbours around we decided to go ‘au naturelle’ and well….

    https://tinyurl.com/ov3qvfq

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  153. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Not Eke today JB….I was under starter’s orders & had to take SWMBO over to Palmie so she could drag me around every bloody shop in the dump.

    I’ve just gone through & up ticked every comment you’ve made on GD today.

    I now have RSI. :)

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  154. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Your a cunt nasska. But a likable cunt! :)

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  155. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    nasska. I know it’s a bit to ask but Judith and I need somewhere to frolic naked in the hay.

    Do you have a suitable paddock? :)

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  156. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    What sort of acreage JB? You may enjoy the thrill of the chase. :)

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  157. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Just a pile of hay will do nasska. I will need some water handy to wash down the Avigra! :)

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  158. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Because Avigra is cheaper, is that right Johnboy ?

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  159. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    You wont need Viagra Johnboy anyway, cause Judith is so god damn sexy !!~

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  160. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Eight bale equivalent of hay……check.
    Water trough…………………………..check.
    Video cam sighted in……………….check.

    Let us know if you need any drenching or crutching facilities JB. Other than that you’re good to go. :)

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  161. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I’m waiting for her to post her blonde pube photo’s before I make a judgement on that stigie! :)

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  162. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Like all rural gentlemen you are a wonderful host nasska! :)

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  163. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I thought it was Lucia Maria who you had a thing for, Johnboy.

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  164. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    “Because Avigra is cheaper, is that right Johnboy ?”

    Never let it be said stigie that us Wainui chaps are tightwads. Still if a man can save a dollar or two??? :)

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  165. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    My wife is a Catholic milkey so I have already been there done that. It’s new pastures that a virtual farmer is interested in! :)

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  166. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Johnboy, like me, is a relic of the generation of the Flower People Mike. He likes to spread the love around. :)

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  167. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Muggins
    As usual what a load of unsubstained bullshit, what a surprise!
    It is not worth the time of day to try and explain anything to you as you are incapable of learning or retaining anything and will just cut and paste the same bullshit again and claim to have forgotten.
    How predicitable!

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  168. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    I recognised you on the right at 2:50 nasska! :)

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  169. Rowan (2,409 comments) says:

    Cursed, damn dementia, whats the correct spelling of the dogs name again?

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  170. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Rowan:

    You’ve contracted a particularly severe condition known as Bainitis. I’ve just heard about something that would work wonders for you and your fellow Bainites.

    It’s a keyboard that subjects your fingers to a not-so-gentle electrical pulse when you try to type any of the following words on a Kiwiblog thread:

    – David Bain
    – Robin Bain
    – Binnie
    – Kent
    – witchsniffer.

    That’s a relatively short list for starters. Of course, depending on how your Bainitis condition responds, we could add to or subtract from the list.

    I would have suggested DB (lest you be tempted to exploit an obvious gap on the list), but poor old Johnboy would have copped it:

    Johnboy (13,117 comments) says:
    March 22nd, 2014 at 5:32 pm

    The Guy at 2:30 that kicks the girl back onto the balcony really deserves a DB Reid! :)

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  171. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Age is wearying us JB….some are worse off again. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/42vt08jvzaenzf6/Masterton-Biker-Bar.jpg

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  172. Steve (North Shore) (4,564 comments) says:

    Quite disgusting Johnboy, playing Penny against Judith, you two timing slaute

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  173. Yvette (2,823 comments) says:

    Ne Avigra rendre un peu difficile, Johnboy, de rouler dans le foin?

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  174. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    We will never know what rural people get up to Steve !~

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  175. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    J’ai pensé que vous étiez morte Yvette. Je n’aurais pas besoin d’avigra pour vous! :)

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  176. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Yvette..dont be rude, thats so uncalled for !~

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  177. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Vague and sweeping generalized observations with their perceived anomalies,coincidences and oddities that are stock and trade of Conpiracy theories are simply not good enough,

    Oh my.

    http://www.eclectech.co.uk/mindcontrol.php

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  178. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    A patient complains he is suffering from insomnia. The doctor immediately picks up his pen and writes a prescription for Viagra.

    “That’s supposed to help me fall asleep?” says the patient.

    “No,” says the doctor, “but it’ll be a lot more fun staying awake.”

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  179. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    My doctor said that nasska but I ended up with a muscular strain in my right hand! :)

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  180. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Minus is back again Johnboy !

    He/She was away for awhile.

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  181. Don the Kiwi (1,763 comments) says:

    make sure you swallow that viagra quick johnboy, otherwise you’ll get a stiff neck.

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  182. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Even losers have to eat stigie.

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  183. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    One dark morning, black as night,
    He woke up so full of fright.
    Right behind him, He could hear,
    A noise which filled his soul with fear.
    With trembling hands he switched on the light,
    His buttocks clenched extremely tight.
    He turned & screamed, for what he saw
    Was what he’d shagged the night before!

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  184. Johnboy (16,651 comments) says:

    Où avez-vous été Yvette mon bien-aimé ?

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  185. stigie (1,220 comments) says:

    Fucking classic Nasska.

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  186. Don the Kiwi (1,763 comments) says:

    What was it nasska? Gareth Morgan?

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  187. nasska (11,580 comments) says:

    Poor old Gareth skipped a few appointments with the beauty fairy Don. :)

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  188. Steve (North Shore) (4,564 comments) says:

    There is a PGF when Labour are gambling and losing the funding they have so enjoyed in the past.
    Same goes for SOEs, a cash cow for Labour that will become no more.
    The Governments job is to govern as the Taxpayers have voted.
    The Governments job is not to be in business
    Richard Prebble

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  189. big bruv (13,929 comments) says:

    Don’t expect much from Dime for the next few days, his boyfriend Jerome Kaino has just taken the field. I fear that Dime might burst.

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  190. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    JESUS

    In case you people don’t know already

    Communist china has it’s own Media Companies working in your region so

    YOU GET THE TRUTH

    this was the Funniest “Fake Journo” they had
    there are many others

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-15/an-who-is-andrea-yu3f/4373496

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-14/politburo-revealed-as-mysterious-australian/4372186?section=australianetworknews

    China uses mysterious Australian to rig Congress coverage
    Updated Sun 18 Nov 2012, 5:33pm AEDT

    Tomorrow in Beijing will see the dawning of a new era, when the Politburo Standing Committee reveals itself to the world. There’s been much about this Congress that could fairly be described as really just a piece of theatre, including the role of a mysterious ‘journalist’ from Australia who’s been thrust into the limelight.

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  191. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-14/politburo-revealed-as-mysterious-australian/4372186?section=australianetworknews

    BEST COMEDY YOU COULD EVER WATCH LISTEN TO

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  192. Nostradamus (3,344 comments) says:

    Ben Dover:

    Quick – urgent message for you over here!

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  193. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Nostro

    Follow CAMG they will keep you up to date with everythang in ASIA

    http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2014/03/11/will-the-real-foreign-reporter-please-stand-up/

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  194. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Will the Real Foreign Reporter Please Stand Up?

    please stand up please stand up

    Will the Real Foreign Reporter Please Stand Up?

    please stand up please stand up

    After the Chinese journalists went, the moderator called on an Australian reporter from Global CAMG Media Group, a Melbourne-based radio outfit that is affiliated with state-run China Radio International. (At the big Communist Party gathering in November of 2012, another Australian working for the same organization seemed to have a knack for being called on to ask anodyne questions of official newsmakers.)

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  195. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    NOSTRO CHINA EXPERT

    ANOTHER WEBSITE FOR YOU

    http://eng.mod.gov.cn/

    BEIJING, March 21 (ChinaMil) — Approved by CMC Chairman Xi Jinping, the “Opinions on Elevating Actual Combat Level of Military Training” (hereinafter referred to as the Opinions) was recently issued by the Central Military Commission (CMC) of the Communist Party of China (CPC).

      The Opinions systematically proposes the guiding ideology, general ideas as well as the main tasks, measures and requirements for elevating the actual combat level of military training.

      The Opinions points out to further push forward military training to get close to actual combat and promote academic education to get close to troop units, so as to upgrade actual combat training of the Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) onto a new level.

      The Opinions proposes to strengthen the concept of actual combat training, innovate actual combat training mode, perfect actual combat training mechanism, reinforce actual combat training practice, so as to fully elevate the deterrence and actual combat capability under the information-based conditions.

      The Opinions clarifies the main tasks and specific means to elevate the actual combat level of military training and emphasizes to uplift the troop units’ capability to perform missions under complicated conditions in order to ensure the ability to commit and win.

      The Opinions stresses to resolve the deep contradictions in military training from the system and mechanism while steadily improving new-type academic system, optimizing talent cultivation mode and innovating education and scientific research, so as to guarantee the implementation of actual combat training.

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  196. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    NOSTRO YOU READ THE WRONG BLOGS AND NEWSPAPERS

    The relationship between China and the West is complicated. They are not friends, nor enemies, but areas of cooperation are much larger than those of confrontation.

    YOU MUST READ GLOBAL TIMES

    NOT THE N Z HERALD

    CHECK THE MILITARY SECTION FROM TIME TO TIME

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/850019.shtml#.Uy1SMih145s

    They are your biggest trading partner

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/CHINA/Military.aspx

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  197. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-06/clarke-and-dawe-welcome-to-contemporary-australia/5302498

    Clarke and Dawe: Welcome to Contemporary Australia

    It’s the carbon tax

    John Clarke

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  198. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    “D4J seems to have faded away bb. ”

    He’s become irrelevant and he knows it. There may be hope for him.

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  199. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    How good was kaino!

    The driving force behind our coming 2015 rwc victory was all class.

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  200. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-06/clarke-and-dawe-welcome-to-contemporary-australia/5302498

    The only thing he forgot was

    Stop the boats

    Stop the boats

    Stop the boats

    Stop the boats

    Stop the boats

    Stop the boats

    Stop the boats

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  201. Nostalgia-NZ (5,220 comments) says:

    He was pretty good dime. Slow starting and getting into the heavy work, feet anchored with a sense of his old power – just the way it should have been. He needs to steadily build on that, some of those breaking hits now and then over the next few weeks as his fitness builds.

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  202. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    http://www.lowbird.com/data/images/2014/03/not-mine-but-wish-it-was-o-2905893.jpg

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  203. Gulag1917 (930 comments) says:

    Why doesn’t the New York Times mind its own business
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11224559

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  204. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Why doesn’t the New York Times mind its own business
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11224559

    YOU DON’T GET IT DO YOU

    THEY ARE THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE INITIATED IT YOU TWERP
    THEY PULL THE STRINGS GLOBALLY

    DON’T YOU KNOW THAT

    WAKE UP OPEN YOUR EYES AND LOOK AROUND

    DESTROYING THE FLAG COMES FIRST

    DESTROYING YOU IS THEIR REAL AIM

    THAT COMES LATER

    they will lie and tell you otherwise

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  205. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    John Andrew Ford in Newton Gully, Auckland, have turned out to be a bunch of plonkers. They just fenced off their car yard stopping the public entering in the weekends. This is bizzarre as Lexus straight across the road have vehicles costing well over twice the cost of Fords and yet remain unfenced.

    And since Ford are leaving the Australasian market I decided I’m gonna snub them as well. Madmen of the market in not a good way.

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  206. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    “DESTROYING THE FLAG COMES FIRST

    DESTROYING YOU IS THEIR REAL AIM

    THAT COMES LATER”

    Specifically htrough the Carbon Tax which will be enforced regardless of govt in office.

    All the FTA’s and dealings with China supposedly amounting to hundreds of millions will all be scuttled and irrelevant to the global community as the UN robs FTA’s and puts the profits in their own coffers under their “Tobin Carbon Tax”

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