Maori schools lash NZEI

March 29th, 2014 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

The country’s largest teachers’ union will march on Parliament today protesting against growing inequity in schools at the same time as the education minister is hosting an international summit.

has organised rallies in Wellington and Auckland timed to coincide with the hosting of OECD education ministers and union leaders, who are discussing best practices for lifting student achievement.

Education Minister Hekia Parata said she was disappointed with the protest timing, especially given NZEI’s involvement in the organisation of the summit and being part of previous delegations to New York and Amsterdam.

She would continue to have a relationship with the union, which was one of the objectives of the cross-sector forum that was set up following the first summit.

“We will continue to try to work together but it does take two.”

Nga Kura-a-Iwi, a federation representing Maori schools, has also spoken out against the NZEI and the “disrespect” it has shown the summit.

Co-chairwoman Arihia Stirling said it was an “inappropriate time to be airing dirty linen”.

“It’s wrong to do this now, we don’t have people dying in the street, we don’t have people bleeding at the hands of the education sector . . . it’s poor judgment of the leadership of the union to do this at this time.

“Why would you air your dirty linen in front of the world when it’s imperative we get the rest of the world down here to learn and strengthen our education system?”

The NZEI was welcoming summit guests with one hand and slapping them in the face with the other, she said.

The organisation is calling for Maori union members to withdraw their membership immediately.

NZEI seems to have given up any pretence of being constructive. Other teacher unions can work with Government when they agree, and criticise them when they disagree. But NZEI seems to go out of its way to do nothing but protest and attack. They’ve got so bad, that finally some schools are saying enough is enough.

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103 Responses to “Maori schools lash NZEI”

  1. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    These irresponsible left-wing unionists are the reason we need more charter schools, so our children are not poisoned with their filthy doctrine. These good for nothing NZEI clowns are showing the public what they really are, political pawns of the left.

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  2. flipper (4,077 comments) says:

    The NZEI has always been anti-National.

    Strangely, given our political leanings, my wife is an NZEI member in her capacity as a teacher.
    When she heard of this nonsense she sent an email to the local NZEI rep protesting, and asking “why now”?

    The response -” because it is Parata and National.”

    I rest my case!

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  3. prosper (167 comments) says:

    It appears its a minority of teachers that belong to the NZEI. It’s time for the majority of teachers to stand up to this destructive division of the Labour party and say enough is enough you are ruining our children’s education as evidenced by NZ slipping down the OECD education rankings.

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  4. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    “It’s time for the majority of teachers to stand up to this destructive division of the Labour party”

    Ha ha prosper. You don’t understand how it works in government departments especially education. You stand up and you’re marked for life; these bitches are so vindictive, you’ll never work again.

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  5. OneTrack (3,111 comments) says:

    Just another branch of the Labour Party

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  6. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    NZEI seems to have given up any pretence of being constructive.

    More accurately, the government is still making a pretence of being constructive, but the NZEI doesn’t see any reason to indulge it. This government is actively working against the public education system and against the teacher unions – why pretend surprise when the teacher unions respond appropriately?

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  7. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    So the NZEI should STFU and pretend everything is rosy because we are hosting an international conference? Or should they use the opportunity to present their concerns?

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  8. Rich Prick (1,705 comments) says:

    Well it is an election year. It’s only natural that the NZEI should go feral. It stands not for the teachers nor the children, it is all about making the government look bad and getting its Party on the treasury benches.

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  9. prosper (167 comments) says:

    Duggledog I suspect you are right. I am ever hopeful. At least charter schools are a step in the right direction and will hopefully diminish the power of the union.

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  10. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    From flipper’s comment:

    ….”because it is Parata and National”…..

    I can get my head around the aversion the NZEI have to National. It’s an ingrained part of their makeup & is largely a relic of their cloth capped union background. The Meatworkers’ unions used to have the same attitude.

    The problem they have with Parata is a bit harder to understand. She’s hardly turned the Education portfolio on its head & apart from a small scale push for trialling charter schools has been a fairly low key minister. Add to that the fact that she is Maori & therefore to the Left a protected species who must be deferred to at all costs & the mystery deepens.

    What is it that drives the campaign of the hags of the NZEI?

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  11. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Psycho Milt (1,935 comments) says:
    March 29th, 2014 at 10:35 am

    why pretend surprise when the teacher unions respond appropriately?

    and that is where the problem lies. The definition of what is appropriate varies depending on ones political affiliation.

    Democracy means everyone has a say, they have the right to protest, however, when they are protesting against something your team wants, suddenly it is declared they have no right, and are wrong for bringing their concerns into the public arena.

    I’ve spent the last few days marking first year university students first assignments. Every year they get increasingly worse. The education system is not working – its deteriorating, many of these students are not sufficiently prepared by the school system to even attempt to meet their aspirations. Remove the ability to meet at least some aspirations, and soon they will stop having them, and then what will happen? Or has it already happened, given the numbers on welfare?

    I don’t like these things being used in an election campaign – because it is distracting, however, I do support the teachers – they have some valid concerns.

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  12. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    Charter schools can be an answer not only to improving the percentage that fail and that the educators themselves say they can’t do anything about – yes I’ve heard that verbatim from some of the leading lights in Ed – but also to breaking the Teacher’s unions or at least diminishing their massive shadow.

    Problem is this administration took so long to get them going, should we get a change in Govt, they will be gone, never to be seen again. One more term for National and I reckon the results will speak for themselves and the Ed unions will have lost their power

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  13. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I think that’s pinning rather high expectation on a handful of charter schools. Face it, there wouldn’t be any at all except as a sop to Act and they are proceeding in a pretty half-hearted manner.

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  14. earlyfknsettler (10 comments) says:

    Racist Schools? Separatist Schools? What exactly is a Maori? How do we define a Maori as it pertains to extra and separate taxpayer funding supporting separate systems? Having defined and separated Maori from the rest of us, why then do the rest of us (non-maori) fund initiatives that we are not entitled to use?

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  15. wat dabney (3,774 comments) says:

    Suppressing school choice – throwing the poorest children under the bus to protect votes and union jobs – is perhaps the most evil thing the left does these days.

    Anyone genuinely concerned about opportunity and equality – anyone not using those terms simply for poltical gain and to line their own pockets – favours the voucher system:

    There is almost nothing we could do that would be more impactful in reducing inequality of educational opportunity and inequality overall than to do what Sweden has done: give every child a voucher and let them select a school of choice.

    Compare that to the actions of self-interested leftist politicians:

    Among the 870 Success Academy seats [the mayor] blocked was a modest 194-student expansion for Success Academy students in Harlem to move into a new middle school. That triggered days of searing press coverage pointing out that those 194 students, all low-income minorities, were coming from a school, Success Academy 4, that killed it on the new state test scores, with 80 percent of the students passing the math test, and 59 percent the English test. The co-located middle school the mayor is protecting and where many of those 194 charter students would end up: P.S. 149, where 5 percent of students passed the math test, and 11 percent the English test.

    http://healthblog.ncpa.org/silence-of-the-left/

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  16. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “he hosting of OECD education ministers and union leaders, who are discussing best practices for lifting student achievement.”

    Well there is a problem right from the start. If you are going to discuss improving education, why have politicians and unions involved?

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  17. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Umm, because the unions represent teachers? And education ministers run education systems?

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  18. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “because the unions represent teachers?”

    Unions represent unions and politicians represent politicians. Notice in all this who is not represented? Students and parents. Arrogant bureaucratic elitism at it’s worst.

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  19. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    What is a union if it is not a free association of members, as is the case for our education unions?

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  20. dime (9,977 comments) says:

    lol losers.

    It makes me happy knowing just how bitter these morons are. Consumed by their own little world of hating national.

    Bet there are zero hot chicks protesting in their group.

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  21. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “What is a union if it is not a free association of members, as is the case for our education unions?”

    Free? Hmmm….I wonder how difficult life would be for a teacher who chose not to join the NZ teachers unions.

    The point is that most unions are by their very nature left wing.

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  22. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    There are plenty of teachers who choose not to join a union. You clearly know nothing about this topic. If unions are left wing it is generally due to expressing the overall preference of members. They are democratic organisations and that’s how they work.

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  23. HB (323 comments) says:

    UE requirements are now a bit harder so this may help Judith. In saying that, Universities are free to set their entrance requirements over and above this minimum. I believe Auckland University requires Level 3 English?

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  24. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    We need Senator Frank Underwood from House of Cards to sort them out.

    The whole problem is that teachers aren’t that smart. If your a physics guru you don’t go and teach high school science for $60K per annum.

    Because teachers aren’t that smart they swallow everything feed down from the NZEI and PPTA as if it’s gospel. I always debate with my mother around education topics and her first response is but my principal tells me it’s bad.

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  25. wf (446 comments) says:

    Not surprised Judith @ 10.48

    I volunteer with reading practice at a local school. Each child has 10 minutes reading aloud 3-4 times a week, depending on the number of volunteers available. The progress they make is wonderful, and I enjoy it greatly, and so do the kids.

    This year, the junior school head (newly appointed) decided that the kids had too many swimming/athletic/camp activities, and so cancelled the practice reading sessions for this term.
    Another term of children being deprived of the chance to become reading literate at an early age.

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  26. HB (323 comments) says:

    Schools are governed by the Board of Trustees. There is a student rep (elected by students), a teacher rep (elected by teachers), the Principal and the rest is made up of people that are voted for by the parents.

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  27. peterwn (3,274 comments) says:

    The Maori school communities should get in behind the Maori Party then. Labour, Greens and Hone would be as useless as tits on a bull in this instance.

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  28. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “There are plenty of teachers who choose not to join a union.”

    How many?

    “If unions are left wing it is generally due to expressing the overall preference of members. They are democratic organisations and that’s how they work.”

    Democracy is not an excuse.

    The problem with this whole thing is that it is an exercise in bureaucratic, statist elitism. Get the state and Labour party unions out of it. Education and school choice should be in the hands of parents, not politicians and unions.

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  29. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Problem with University is we have too many and anyone can get in. When I was at high school (only 20 years ago) very few thought of going to University as the entrance criteria was quite high and you generally new why you were going and what you would do when you finished.

    Now universities are just a defacto benefit

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  30. wat dabney (3,774 comments) says:

    There are plenty of teachers who choose not to join a union. You clearly know nothing about this topic. If unions are left wing it is generally due to expressing the overall preference of members. They are democratic organisations and that’s how they work.

    All entirely irrelevent.

    Their personal politics are irrelevant.

    The point is that they conspire to operate a monopoly; to deprive children and parents of value and choice in order to benefit themselves.

    The only difference between them and any other cartel is that when teachers engage in this behavour their victims are children, whose entire life prospects may be totally blighted by their actions.

    Incidentally, according to this 2008 piece, ‘more than 90 percent of teachers were in the union.’
    So the idea that there are ‘plenty’ of non-union teachers is obviously false.
    http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/national-questions-back-pay-union-members

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  31. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “The organisation is calling for Maori union members to withdraw their membership immediately.”

    This would be a good start.

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  32. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “The point is that they conspire to operate a monopoly; to deprive children and parents of value and choice in order to benefit themselves. The only difference between them and any other cartel is that when teachers engage in this behavour their victims are children, whose entire life prospects may be totally blighted by their actions.”

    Yes! Spot on.

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  33. HB (323 comments) says:

    Not sure why people are still blabbing on about ‘lack of choice’
    Within a 15 drive of my house I have the following options for my high school aged children.
    State Boys only, girls only and 4 x co-ed
    State integrated ‘special character’ boys only and 2 x girls only + a boys only catholic
    Rudolph Steiner
    A total of 11 of which I know I could enrol my children at.
    The school I have chosen to enrol my children at is one of the above – but not the one I am ‘in zone’ for.
    The primary schools and intermediate my children attended (3 primary, 1 intermediate) – only one of the primary schools we lived in zone for – and that was still a choice – I could have chosen to send them elsewhere if I had wanted to.

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  34. wat dabney (3,774 comments) says:

    HB,

    If ever I need an example to illustrate the saying ‘the plural of anecdote is not data’ I shall refer to your post.

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  35. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “Not sure why people are still blabbing on about ‘lack of choice’”

    If I choose to send my children to a fully independent school I am still forced to pay for the State system. Being forced to pay for a product I do not use is not choice.

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  36. HB (323 comments) says:

    independent schools and charter schools get plenty of dosh from taxpayers

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  37. HB (323 comments) says:

    well Wat, what choice am I currently being denied?

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  38. HB (323 comments) says:

    there is a heap we pay for with our taxes that we do not use

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  39. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “there is a heap we pay for with our taxes that we do not use”

    And it should stop.

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  40. prosper (167 comments) says:

    Judith I am not sure why you support the teachers when you are struggling with the results of their incompetence.

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  41. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    South Rider @ 11:39am
    “The whole problem is that teachers aren’t that smart. If YOUR a physics guru…”

    Oh the irony! Priceless.

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  42. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    There are plenty of teachers who choose not to join a union. You clearly know nothing about this topic.

    He’s never let that stop him in the past, why start now?

    The education system is not working – its deteriorating, many of these students are not sufficiently prepared by the school system to even attempt to meet their aspirations.

    It may be counter-intuitive, but the amount schools can do about this is limited. Like most other skills, reading and writing come down to practice – how many hours have you clocked up, and more importantly, how many hours have you clocked up doing it properly rather than arsing about ingraining bad habits? The kids turning up as first-year university students have in many cases hardly ever read a book and never written something outside of school that wasn’t txt or internet-speak. No matter how good a job the teachers did on these ones, they just haven’t put in the number of hours needed to be able to read and write at university level.

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  43. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “The kids turning up as first-year university students have in many cases hardly ever read a book”

    Which would seem to be an indictment of the education system.

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  44. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    Again, “you clearly know nothing about this topic.”

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  45. OneTrack (3,111 comments) says:

    HB – “Not sure why people are still blabbing on about ‘lack of choice’”

    Will you still have that choice after Labour and the Greens get in? We know what their positions are on charter svhools, so you wont have that choice for a start. Full reintroduction of zoning? If not, why not?

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  46. OneTrack (3,111 comments) says:

    shawn – ““The kids turning up as first-year university students have in many cases hardly ever read a book”

    Which would seem to be an indictment of the education system.”

    But they can all do an excellent Kapa haka and they know how to recycle.

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  47. OneTrack (3,111 comments) says:

    bc – “Oh the irony! Priceless.”

    Dont be too harsh. He did come through the New Zealand education system, after all.

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  48. prosper (167 comments) says:

    The teachers are the problem. There are schools with fantastic headmasters that excel which would imply the system is not the fault.

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  49. itstricky (1,849 comments) says:

    If I choose to send my children to a fully independent school I am still forced to pay for the State system. Being forced to pay for a product I do not use is not choice.

    Wow! A giant stick in the personal responsiblity capitalist libertarian mud!

    Newflash Shawn -: you don’t pay for just yourself. You pay for everybody for the benefit of all of society. The wonders of the greedy mind – that’s my little bit of the pot over there and I want my share. Mine mine mine. Me me me.

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  50. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    He must be really pissed off about contributing to others’ health care, roads he doesn’t use, police he never has to call, etc, etc.

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  51. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “You pay for everybody for the benefit of all of society.”

    Government monopolies are not a benefit to society.

    “Mine mine mine. Me me me.”

    Wrong way around. The greed and selfishness is from those who believe they have a right to steal from and use force against others.

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  52. itstricky (1,849 comments) says:

    The greed and selfishness is from those who believe they have a right to steal from and use force against others.

    Steal? You mean “borrow to use to benefit of society”. Yeah, I get it, you’re advocating no social services whatsoever, no Government blah blah blah. Basically you’re advocating for “Mine mine mine. Me me me. Stuff off everyone else and get your dirty mitts off what’s mine”. And most people instinctively know that, while it may work for them it probably doesn’t work for everyone. And they don’t really have to debate that as it’s kind of intuitive.

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  53. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “You mean “borrow to use to benefit of society””

    No, I mean stealing for the benefit of politicians and the State.

    When someone points a gun at you (and the State is armed) and takes your property, it is not borrowing, it is stealing.

    ” Basically you’re advocating for “Mine mine mine. Me me me. Stuff off everyone else and get your dirty mitts off what’s mine”.

    No, I’m advocating against the selfishness of those who think they have a right to steal.

    I’m happy to share what I have, and give to charity, voluntarily.

    Why do you think you have a right to other people’s property? Do you think your better than others? Do you tell your neighbor’s how to spend what they earn? Do you break into your neighbor’s homes and steal so you can “share” with “society”?

    You don’t sound like a non-selfish caring person. You sound like a high percentage on those currently in prison.

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  54. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    The unionised education filth, along with rent-a-mouth left-wing losers have been out in force today, just another disorganised rabble . . . and they expect us to respect them, giving classrooms and money to indoctrinate our young with their Labour/Green decadent doctrine.

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  55. kiwigunner (230 comments) says:

    So having been offered $40k pay rises (a lot of principals) and $20k for teachers they still go out and protest against education reforms. just what is going on? Are the teachers and principals actually putting the children ahead of themselves? That’s not how the market is supposed to work.

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  56. itstricky (1,849 comments) says:

    No, I mean stealing for the benefit of politicians and the State.

    You have to have someone in charge. And we have to have somewhere to put the money and distribute it out. That doesn’t mean that it is for the benefit of either party. Sometimes one of those parties may abuse their power. And they are usually reprimanded for it.

    I’m happy to share what I have, and give to charity, voluntarily.

    So when you say you’re happy to share does that mean, in your ideal world, you’d be happy to prop. up homeless people with a large hunk of cash every now and then? Or drug addicts? Or those with gambling addictions? HIV inflicted? Bankrupts? Or is that just their fault, nothing to do with you and someone else should bail them out?

    Why do you think you have a right to other people’s property?

    No. And I don’t tell them how to spend what they earn. But I do realise that tax is a necessary evil and that it doesn’t actually belong to me in the first place. I’m sure you’ll get over some of you hang ups about “Mine. mine. mine. Me. me. me” if you just accept that and get on with your life.

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  57. itstricky (1,849 comments) says:

    So having been offered $40k pay rises (a lot of principals) and $20k for teachers they still go out and protest against education reforms. just what is going on? Are the teachers and principals actually putting the children ahead of themselves? That’s not how the market is supposed to work.

    I don’t quite see where it says that it is a protest about education reforms.

    Being paid more doesn’t really have any bearing on, or anything to do with, inequality. Mutually exclusive.

    You also seem to be implying that they should be paid more to just shut up. Isn’t part of doing a good job and being good at what you do to question the status quo?

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  58. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    Basically you’re advocating for “Mine mine mine. Me me me. Stuff off everyone else and get your dirty mitts off what’s mine.”

    If you’ve ever played Bioshock, just think of Shawn as a kind of Andrew Ryan minus the wealth, power and charisma.

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  59. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    HB (254 comments) says:
    March 29th, 2014 at 11:36 am
    UE requirements are now a bit harder so this may help Judith. In saying that, Universities are free to set their entrance requirements over and above this minimum. I believe Auckland University requires Level 3 English?

    And that is where the problem lies. Even Level 3 English does not prepare a student sufficiently.

    The problem is not with the teachers and how it is being taught, it is with WHAT is being taught.

    In the past school children were basically divided into several categories once they were in their senior years of secondary school. Those separate areas would prepare them for the next stage of their chosen career paths. Hence those following (for example) a career as a builder, would already know how to handle tools by taking woodwork at school, and so on.

    Today, the students (generally) don’t appear to have even the basics sorted. In my area it is important to be able to research material to support a particular argument/standpoint. Many do not appear to be able to recognise a supporting statement, let alone find it in a written article. (This is apart from the fact they use txt language and so on).

    They are simply not prepared to take on tertiary education. It’s almost like they need another year between secondary school, and university, to gather the necessary skills for whatever their next objective is. The difficulty arises because they are expected to have these skills, and so are marked on that presumption. Good students with a great deal of promise are failing, not because they don’t have the ability, but because they are not taught what they need to know or are expected to know before they start uni.

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  60. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “You have to have someone in charge.”

    No, we don’t.

    “And we have to have somewhere to put the money and distribute it out.”

    No, we really don’t

    “So when you say you’re happy to share does that mean, in your ideal world, you’d be happy to prop. up homeless people with a large hunk of cash every now and then? Or drug addicts? Or those with gambling addictions? HIV inflicted? Bankrupts? Or is that just their fault, nothing to do with you and someone else should bail them out?”

    I give time and money to several of the things you mention, and others besides. Not that it’s any of your business.

    “No. And I don’t tell them how to spend what they earn. ”

    Yes you do, every time you vote.

    And there are no necessary evils. Evil should be shunned not welcomed in.

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  61. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    Judith

    If a builder erects a house that leaks or falls over he takes the blame. If an electrician makes a botch up & people are electrocuted he is judged to be at fault. Same applies in just about any trade or profession I can think of.

    So why can’t the whiny bloody teachers step up to the plate & admit that they are useless failures instead of raining blame on everyone else…..National Party included?

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  62. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    If a builder erects a shoddy house in both the materials supplied like reject timber used in roof trusses or unsuitable or to shallow roofing for climate and position or unsuitable cladding deign specified by client or financer all of which has been signed off with out question by the relevant pen pushing ticket clippers.

    every one runs for the hills

    . I have seen enough builders and developers go belly up. Bill Sheet builder est 2001 becomes .B Sheet builder est 2014.. and shoddy business continues…..

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  63. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (9,283 comments) says:
    March 29th, 2014 at 6:03 pm

    I think there are good and bad people in every trade, and even teachers. I also believe the past 20 years has seen many of the best teachers become disgruntled and move away from the ‘trade’. The industry of teaching is in a mess – both in the type of material they are teaching, but also in the quality of (some) of the people involved. Then there are complications like Nova pay, and even the risks taken when adult (males in particular) are around young people that also have impacted teaching.

    I am not blaming any one government for this, or even any particular group. I think the entire situation has been affected by many different things that have come together to devalue the entire education system.

    Supporting the teachers right to protest if they are disgruntled, does not mean I don’t support the efforts the govt is trying to make to sort it out.

    The problem as far as I am concerned is that we are pushing the ‘one for all’ and it simply isn’t going to work. We need to appreciate that there are many different cultures, and types of people and therefore children. What our education system needs to do is offer a programme that encourages the best in everyone, with the realisation that what is your best, might be very different to what mine is. It is about teaching our children to reach their potential to lead a self sufficient lifestyle, in whatever that may be. The ultimate being ‘self sufficiency’ – take care of and being able to support yourself, even if that means you are only capable of learning to put pegs in plastic bags, or build space rockets.

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  64. itstricky (1,849 comments) says:

    I don’t play any games PM, but, man, that was a good pick!

    “You have to have someone in charge.” No, we don’t.

    The problems caused by ADAM abuse among the population of Rapture were exacerbated by Andrew Ryan’s Free Market societal beliefs. His hands-off approach to running the city meant that there was no regulation of ADAM, and no prevention of its side effects. By the time the Rapture Civil War began and Ryan brought restrictions to the city, the damage had already been done.

    Yes you do, every time you vote. And there are no necessary evils. Evil should be shunned not welcomed in.

    his experiences in the “worker’s paradise” made Ryan despise the ideals of Socialism, believing that those who benefited undeservedly from others were “parasites” (e.g. he considered Roosevelt and his “New Dealers” to be “spoon-feeding” Americans on the “Bolshevik Poison”). In Ryan’s philosophy, one could only own what one earned–Ryan himself once owned a large forest as a personal retreat, one that many groups envied (one group told him that it “belonged to God,” demanding that he establish a public park there). When the government attempted to nationalize it as parkland, Ryan’s response was to burn it to the ground to deny it to the parasites.

    Ryan’s response was to use his entire fortune to build Rapture; a community where “the artist would not fear the censor, where the scientist would not be bound by petty morality, where the great would not be constrained by the small,” in the only place he felt the “parasites” could not touch — the depths of the Atlantic Ocean

    By populating a city with ambitious experts, opportunists, geniuses, and breakthrough artists, Ryan set up a top-heavy class system. Many Rapture citizens felt that essential jobs such as food processing, cleaning, and simple maintenance were beneath them, which caused dissatisfaction when these jobs were neglected. An end of largescale construction led to an economic recession throughout Rapture.

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  65. itstricky (1,849 comments) says:

    I give time and money to several of the things you mention, and others besides. Not that it’s any of your business.

    Good stuff.

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  66. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    Griff

    Tradies have perfected the art of escaping financial penalties for their cock ups. I’ve heard of chippies who have new companies set up in advance so they can start afresh every three years ‘just in case’.

    Regardless of their craft in escaping liability their reputation follows them & at least in the smaller cities & towns word of mouth will reduce their opportunities to continue conning prospective customers.

    Not so teachers. Class fulls of kids migrate on to the next level without a fleeting knowledge of what they’ve been “taught”. Some, as Judith instances, are effectively illiterate & unable to take part in further education because they’ve missed the basics of reading, writing & maths. Note that she is a on the teaching staff of a University so we can probably discount the normal excuses of parental non involvement, disinterest & below average IQ.

    Personally I’m sick to death with listening to the bleating pedagogues blaming everyone bar themselves for their incompetence.

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  67. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    Judith

    ….”even the risks taken when adult (males in particular) are around young people that also have impacted teaching.”….

    Point taken. It is IMHO one of the biggest factors in the horrible statistics of failure amongst boys in the state education system.

    I do take issue with some of your last paragraph. What you outline would require a tailored education system for each individual student. A few tweaks here & there are probably needed but other than that it should be left to the over educated idiots in front of the class to do a lot better with what they’ve got.

    There are more than a few examples around that indicate teachers’ ability can & does make a huge difference…..the members of the NZEI expect professional status, money & conditions for a process worker’s dedication & attitude.

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  68. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    The push for over education at the expense of experience based learning.

    Educations stake holders are hijacked by extreme view-point minorities.
    Feminism.
    Maorisim.
    Marxism.

    Further problems are a result of.

    Unsupported education philosophes.
    Pushing the no fail all are equal mantra.
    Excessive restructuring generated by political ideals.

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  69. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    Griff

    Note that the NZEI overtly or covertly supports all the points in your 6.56pm. They are ably supported by wanky academics of all hues but the teachers’ associations/unions have had a huge influence.

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  70. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    If a builder erects a house that leaks or falls over he takes the blame.

    Comparing what a builder does with what a teacher does is like comparing what a computer technician does with what a research scientist does – completely pointless.

    Not to mention – NZ has one of the top-performing education systems in the world. Ever heard anyone say they’re impressed with the quality of NZ’s buildings? If either professional group is going to be characterised as “useless failures,” it shouldn’t be the teachers…

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  71. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “Not to mention – NZ has one of the top-performing education systems in the world.”

    We have gone from seventh to thirteenth in reading literacy. How is that “top performing” and, how is this claim arrived at in the first place? By comparing it to other State run education systems?

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  72. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska

    Not so much an individually adjusted system, but certainly at the secondary level, divided into the various disciplines to capitalise on each student’s strongest skill base. But also allowing those strengths to develop and be recognised in the earlier years.

    It saddens me that many males are choosing to not become teachers. The most positive influential teachers in my life were males. One in particular responsible for going that extra mile, recognising potential and taking the time to develop it. Not that I appreciated it at the time, but later when I was able to capitalise on it, I recognised the value of his teaching. Sadly he had died and I never got to thank him for his support. He was a ‘teacher’ in every sense of the word.

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  73. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    A distinct downward trend in NZs placing.
    Eroding standards in the basics of science math and english .

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  74. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Eroding standards in the basics of science math and english

    Perhaps the construction of our community has assisted in this decrease?

    Maybe the cultural make up of our community means that there is not the concentration of children that are spatially dominant in their thinking patterns and this is reflecting in the statistics?

    Unfortunately the statistics do not measure these things, but it may very well be that the ‘type’ of people being measured are no longer as dominant in those areas.

    AND.. as nassaka has pointed out, a shortage of males in the system won’t be helping that. It is a well documented fact that females (generally) are not as strong in the spatial thinking area as males. If there are not sufficient males in the teaching system, then that may very well be affecting the stats. Whilst the females are still capable of teaching the subjects, do they have the same ‘passion’ and therefore influence in those subjects to make a difference?

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  75. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    Judith

    My education was cut short by my expulsion half way through my sixth form year but I do share your memories of teachers who were inspirational….not many unfortunately but those who were had a beneficial influence on a young & rebellious nasska.

    Some have got “it”…..some haven’t. The NZEI has been instrumental in weeding out the best & bolstering the numbers of time serving hacks.

    The meatworkers of the 60’s & 70’s did the same.

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  76. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (9,287 comments) says:
    March 29th, 2014 at 7:32 pm

    They told my mother there was no point in expelling me, because I didn’t turn up to school often enough in the 6th form for expulsion to have any effect on me!

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  77. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Teaching used to be a refuge for the larrikin and eccentric men from the corporate norm.
    Every kid from my generation remembers a male teacher who stood clearly different and more succesful at engaging than the of the rest of the staff. I can think of several characters, R H Lockstone* was one :lol: , that I was exposed to by teaching having closer to gender equality in its ranks.

    * http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=BYdZ-91he7QC&pg=PA248&lpg=PA248&dq=R+H+Lockstone&source=bl&ots=YiXS1iCCLg&sig=hBupts0QU_0lntMPu7Q6QXp3sik&hl=en&sa=X&ei=RWs2U8bIJI6KkwWE5ICYBw&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=R%20H%20Lockstone&f=false

    special schools.
    Wish they had as good when I was kid as they do now. Unfortantly any system is going to find some of us to unconvental and unconformable .

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  78. nasska (11,575 comments) says:

    ….”any system is going to find some of us to unconvental and unconformable .”…..

    I bred a few more just to carry on with the tradition Griff. :)

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  79. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Proud tradition within my family going back 3 generations till the unconformity blurs the trail, forward for three generations as well.

    Hole round.

    Identifiable genetic trace in Griff family tree produces spiky shapes.

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  80. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    …how is this claim arrived at in the first place? By comparing it to other State run education systems?

    You’re onto something here, Shawn – they do compare it to other public education systems. I guess they’re just too scared to compare it to the private education systems of the world’s libertarian utopias… oh, wait, I get it – you’re taking the piss…

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  81. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    How about direct comparisons with the private/independent schools we already have?

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  82. goldnkiwi (1,308 comments) says:

    Judith (5,407 comments) says:

    March 29th, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    Today, the students (generally) don’t appear to have even the basics sorted. In my area it is important to be able to research material to support a particular argument/standpoint. Many do not appear to be able to recognise a supporting statement, let alone find it in a written article.

    Perhaps they are just not telling you what you want to hear?

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  83. HB (323 comments) says:

    Judith: You cannot pass Level 3 English using txt language.
    You can pass credits in other subjects which count as ‘literacy’ credits but English requires ‘control’. This means a good grasp of grammar, spelling and structure.
    Your students may have ‘literacy’ credits. This does not mean they have passed Level 3 English.

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  84. HB (323 comments) says:

    I have pondered a little more on your dilemma Judith.

    I don’t think that UE has become any easier. In fact, from this year the criteria has changed to make it harder.
    What has changed is the number of students who are staying on at school. Students, who in the past, left and entered trades and other employment. Due to the fact that jobs for school leavers (especially those who leave before the end of Year 13) are few, many are staying at school longer. UE is attainable for many of them.
    Choice 1) stay in my home town and try and get a job for which I will be paid around $14/hour
    Choice 2) leave my home town for the big city with my mates to study. Put off having to ‘grow up’.
    I can see why many may choose ‘choice 2′ – teenagers who, in the past, would have left school for employment at 16-17 years old. A lot of these students would have gone through high school without ambitions of higher education and don’t have much of an interest in being educated or have a love of learning. They purely see uni as a step they have to complete to gain a job.

    I am also not saying there are not faults with NCEA. We would struggle to find a teacher (who is still in the classroom) who thinks NCEA, as it currently stands, is the best we can do for students.

    I am also not saying there are not faults with teachers. But they are an easy scapegoat.

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  85. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    After seeing the TVNZ news last night, I am more resolute in my disgust at teachers’ unions. They are given prime news space by left-wing media, coming across as usual Labour/Green envious, non-achieving losers, and I can imagine them in a classroom ramming their foul doctrine into young impressionable minds. Their irresponsible actions should make us all more intent on seeing the back of them, introducing more charter-type learning institutions, devoid of union influences.

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  86. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    How about direct comparisons with the private/independent schools we already have?

    Er, because there isn’t any basis on which we could make direct comparisons? I guess you could set up a kind of experiment, in which a few of the decile-1 schools in the worst neighbourhoods get replaced by private schools that are obliged to take all comers, including the special needs kids, with no rights to kick the troublesome ones back to the state sector, leave funding them up to the parents who have kids there, then give them 10 or 20 years then see how good a job they do. Actually, on second thoughts you couldn’t set up that kind of experiment – apart from the impossibility of getting ethics approval for it, you’d never find anyone in the private sector stupid enough to participate.

    …more charter-type learning institutions, devoid of union influences.

    Thanks. We can always rely on Kiwiblog’s commenters to remind us what this government’s education policy is really about.

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  87. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    I have attended two state schools in NZ. Both had severe cultures of bullying. Such cultures cannot exist without some level of complicity or indifference on the part of teachers. I have just watched this morning on Sunday an interview with Eleanor Catton, the Canadian/Kiwi author and winner of the Man Booker Prize, who went to one of the same schools about twenty years later than me, and guess what? NOTHING HAD CHANGED!

    The Teachers Unions wank on about how caring and dedicated their members are. BULLSHIT.

    I remember one instance of the PPTA standing by one of it’s members accused of groping High School girls.

    Like all Unions they are out only for themselves. They protect failed and appallingly bad teachers. They resist any and all attempts to be accountable to taxpayers. They whine at the slightest suggestion that they should actually be evaluated on their performance. And it is undeniable that they are tied at the hip to the Labour Party.

    The government should treat teachers unions as criminal organisations and get them out of NZ schools.

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  88. HB (323 comments) says:

    why should the unions be accountable to taxpayers?

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  89. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    Because HB teachers are paid by taxpayers. The teachers should be accountable to those who pay them, not to Labour Party unions.

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  90. HB (323 comments) says:

    that wasn’t my question.
    it was
    why should the unions be accountable to taxpayers?

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  91. HB (323 comments) says:

    by the way you sound really scary – anti free speech, anti freedom of association
    anyone you disagree with should be rounded up?

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  92. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    HB,

    As a Libertarian I am pro free speech and pro freedom of association. However freedom of association does not apply to organizations involved in criminal activity. And unions are essentially Mafia style criminal groups that, like the Mafia, which they have a long history elsewhere of being tied to, use stand over tactics to extort money from employers and try, as in the infamous case of the Hobbit haters, to keep non union members out of workplaces.

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  93. HB (323 comments) says:

    lol
    I am a criminal!
    Does that make the government behaviour criminal too?

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  94. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    “Does that make the government behaviour criminal too?”

    The State is a criminal organization as well.

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  95. wat dabney (3,774 comments) says:

    Recently there was a small protest in town about the proposed TPP trade agreement, and some unwashed lefty gave me a flyer about how evil it was.

    They may well be right.

    The question is why weren’t these people also protesting against the teachers’ unions enforced monopoly in this country, which is directly comparable to the TPP’s self-serving restrictions and purpose yet far more damaging and evil since it targets children.

    Anti-competitive behaviour is the same whoever is doing it.

    It’s the same in this thread, with the lefties defending what in any other circumstances would be a criminal conspiracy.
    Just the other day Cart Holt Harvey was fined nearly $2m for price fixing, yet when the teachers do the same and worse they are lauded by the left, even as the children from the poorest areas are thrown under the bus.

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  96. HB (323 comments) says:

    Shawn: I have been reading your comments over the last few weeks (I usually just lurk).
    A lot of what you write is interesting and appears to be well thought out – even though I often have a different viewpoint myself, I have enjoyed reading your comments.
    Your comments on this thread are quite different. Full of bitterness and vitriol. Reading between the lines (which I could be getting completely wrong) you seem to have had a bad experience in the past that is colouring your views of thousands of individuals?

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  97. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    Spot on Wat!

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  98. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    HB,

    Yes I had a very bad experience of schooling in NZ, and sure, that colors my view. That said, I am not the only one who has had such experiences. I have recently seen the same things with one of my nephews, who was effectively thrown under the bus by a State school because of supposed “learning difficulties” until my sister got him out and into a private Anglican school where he is now thriving.

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  99. HB (323 comments) says:

    I am sorry about that (you and your nephew).

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  100. ShawnLH (5,265 comments) says:

    I am not saying there are not very good teachers. But I don’t believe the teachers unions are helpful at all in improving things.

    To be fair though, the root cause is not the unions themselves, but the State monopoly.

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  101. HB (323 comments) says:

    I have seen the same thing happen with students who have learning difficulties. To be fair, I have seen these students treated unfairly in state, state integrated and private schools.
    It comes down to the leadership and the individual staff within the schools and their viewpoints on the matter. Many schools will actively try to stop students with learning difficulties enrolling. Depending on the learning difficulty, resourcing (including trained staff) can be inadequate. This means the students needs have to be catered for out of the general school budget. Many schools will not do that.
    The school I teach at has students from all over (out of zone) who have learning difficulties. This is due to them being ignored at their previous school or being told that another school would be ‘more suitable’. We are lucky that we have the leadership at our school that recognises that we should be doing our best for everyone. It’s kind of weird to realise that when (as a higher decile school) we get less per student funding than the schools that these students are coming from.

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  102. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    The question is why weren’t these people also protesting against the teachers’ unions enforced monopoly in this country…

    I think you’ve mistaken this for some other country. Or maybe you’re not sure what “enforced monopoly” means?

    Yes I had a very bad experience of schooling in NZ, and sure, that colors my view. That said, I am not the only one who has had such experiences.

    So what? Fair Go and Campbell Live feature people every week who’ve had bad experiences at the hands of NZ businesses. By your logic, we can conclude from this that capitalism is a criminal activity and people who run businesses are essentially the same as the mafia.

    It would be pretty astonishing if there were no instances of bullying, crap teaching etc across the entire education system. However, you’re effectively making a claim here that there would be fewer or no instances of them under a free enterprise education system. That’s laughable on the face of it, let alone subjecting it to scrutiny.

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  103. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    Many schools will actively try to stop students with learning difficulties enrolling.

    And the methods they use for that now will be as nothing to those implemented if the government gets to implement funding schools and paying teachers based on “performance.”

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