General Debate 15 May 2014

May 15th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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251 Responses to “General Debate 15 May 2014”

  1. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Is Dotcom a part owner of Winnie’s racehorses? Maybe that is why he has been visiting his fortress!

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  2. redqueen (582 comments) says:

    So Winnie the Pooh has gotten himself into a spot of bother…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11254965

    Something about pots calling kettles…? Declare a ‘smoking gun’, apparently based on your own experience being corrupt, and then go, ‘Oh, no, wait, I don’t have to declare things myself…’ What a twit.

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  3. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    The desperation of political sockpuppets

    When Prentice posts about sockpuppets and desperation wry and black comedy (inadvertent) come to mind. There’s plenty of same old, but it seems to be deteriorating into sad farce. Debate on the left is dire.

    The abuse will continue until the disillusioned absentee voters return to Labour. /wry

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  4. martinh (1,257 comments) says:

    If nationals going to give some cash to first home buyers i hope they have properly considered the risk of what that could do for everyones interest rates as the rbnz wont take kindly to that.

    Maybe if they did it for non auckland it may work better

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  5. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    Winnie has been horsed by his own petard.

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  6. Viking2 (11,562 comments) says:

    So GD will be all about Winston, Muslims, Christians and bugger all else again today.

    Still most of us hard done by taxpayers are out there working. Only leaves the bluggers to participate in this fruitless expose of all things mindless.

    Its a nice day in the bay.

    Someone will try hard to stuff it up.

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  7. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    Apparently…

    Brendan Horan just said on morning report that Winston Peters has been employing Simon Lusk for advice using the NZ First Leader’s budget.

    If true is it just a professional arrangement, or does Lusk think NZ First will help National’s interests?

    Whatever, the horse has gone very lame.

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  8. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    In the herald this morning Audry Young wrote.

    “He (Cunliffe) would not rule out tax cuts. Labour plans to increase the top tax rate of 33c on income over $70,000 and plans to introduce a capital gains tax, exempting the family home.”

    Given Labour hasn’t released it’s tax plans yet, and at the last election they had tax rises at $120,000 (iirc), has she just leaked something or is it the simpler explanation of crappy writing ?

    Surely, labour isn’t going to push the top rate of tax at $70k, I’d image they’d look for a much higher number for their new tax band ?

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  9. redqueen (582 comments) says:

    @Alan

    I didn’t realise Labour actually had a ‘plan’, just make it up as you go. But you never know where they’ve got cells…erm…branches operating in the media these days.

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  10. Paulus (2,660 comments) says:

    Do you think that Winston’s non repayment of the $158,000 was used to pay for the upkeep of his racecourse ?
    Is it possible that he received this share of this Zabeel progeny from his very very good friends in the Racing Industry ?
    Was this when he was Minister of Racing ?
    Hope he did not feed it on Fish from his other friends.
    Hear his bluster this morning that he is going to his Lawyer to sue everybody.
    Now we know one of the reasons he got rid of the whistleblower Brendan Horan (who knows horses) from NZ First Party.

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  11. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    @ Paulus – Bellazeel was only foaled in November 2008; around the time that Peters was relegated by the stipendary stewards called the New Zealand voters.

    But one point of interest; the horse was bred by one Miss D Ho; that’s a very Asian sounding name for a bloke who rails against everything Asian ;-)

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  12. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    Horse not Course Paulus :-)

    It’s more likely the bank wouldn’t advance him an even bigger overdraft to pay it back.

    NZF would surely have zero cash

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  13. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    It’s a rare day when I agree with something from Dr Brian Edwards, but he’s dead right about the obvious conflict of interest that Shane Taurima had with TVNZ.

    One aspect that the media seem to have ignored to date is this; how much did the Labour Party know? Given that David Cunliffe and others attended a hui facilitated by Taurima, and given that a branch of Tamaki Makaurau Labour was meeting at TVNZ, did no one see the potential for allegations of a conflict of interest? Perhaps the Labour Party folk were so busy looking at Judith Collins that they missed the blindingly obvious going on under their own noses.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/quote-of-day-15-may-2014.html

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  14. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  15. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    Keeping Stock (9,856 comments) says:

    May 15th, 2014 at 8:30 am

    It’s a rare day when I agree with something from Dr Brian Edwards,
    *****

    A bloody good point on Taurimu. What an arrogant jerk to claim he had been vindicated….in the same way TVNZ twerps claim they were vindicated. Bullshit!

    What a pity that we will have to wait until next Wednesday afternoon before Cun*liffe’s (TVNZ and trust ) and Peters’ (horses and the $150,000+ theft) duplicity, nay lies, can be raised in Parliament.

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  16. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    TVNZ were vindicated on the key point of bias in broadcast content.

    The rest is all admin stuff……

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  17. Liam Hehir (130 comments) says:

    All right – this could hurt the Nats in the polls

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  18. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    Alan…

    They claimed they were vindicated on bias, but ignored the actions of their controlling editorial staffers. That is where the bias has been, and remains. Until those jerks are removed, and the smart alec presenters replaced with sensible folk like those employed on Sky Australia (to mention one clearly unbiased news outlet) TVNZ will always be as it was under idiots like Walker et al.

    However, after yesterday’s “scoop expose” by TV3 (on NP solicitation of bequests) , I suppose they are at least the best in NZ.

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  19. Longknives (4,868 comments) says:

    Some of my younger student relatives are firing some ‘Young Labour’ Propaganda round Facebook that says John Key is going to slam interest back onto Student Loans…
    I can’t find anything from Mr Key saying this at all- more lies and scare tactics from the Left?

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  20. Cunningham (846 comments) says:

    Judith (6,045 comments) says:

    “That makes it 1 to Labours 9, still a ways to go boys! ” Judith you seem to be ranting more and more as time goes on. Can you not at least acknowledge this achievement? You seem to constantly contradict yourself. On the one hand you complain about people struggling etc under National (and how they are ruiing the country) and then on the other you complain because it took this long to get to surplus….a major reason being that Labour policies such as WFF, int free loans were kept in place. Some people you just cannot reason with.

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  21. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    Newstalkzb have once again given the lying loser “Tojo” prime space to try and spin some traction on their news. Like my colleagues, I have had a gutsful of having this despicable specimen of humanity rammed down the airwaves at every opportunity in a bid to do something for his further falling popularity. Labour/Greens surely are seen as a disaster by those that count, Australia being a prime example of what leeching losers do to a great economy in a very short time frame!

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  22. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Cunningham (778 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 9:04 am

    A small surplus in an election year needs congratulations? I call it for what it is – a necessity to ensure National wins the election (which it is going to anyway, but I guess then need to make sure).

    I will make my judgement on the overall effects of the budget on ALL New Zealanders.

    A surplus produced at the expense of others is not a surplus in my mind, but a mere adjustment in figures.
    We still have people in Christchurch who don’t know their future, we have still have issues over Pike River, and every day I have students (good promising intelligent people) who are having to withdraw from their courses or reduce to part-time study because they can no longer afford to continue. Then there is the aging population, and the fact that despite people living longer, anyone over 55 is unable to retrain to ensure their future employment, when they are no longer able to continue with their previous career – plus much more – all things that will prevent equality – which is important to me.

    So no, I’m sorry, a mere fiddling of the figures for one year (an election year) does not fool me, or impress me – should the budget demonstrate a commitment to make the lives of all New Zealanders better, then I will give my congratulations then, but you should know, I do not subscribe to the trickle down effect.

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  23. trout (944 comments) says:

    A small point Judith, because you do seem to be getting increasingly hysterical as Labour falls in the polls. John Key did not ‘promise’ tax cuts. He indicated that tax cuts could could be ‘looked at’ in out years if surpluses were sustained. No conflict there with the Minister of Finance.

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  24. ShawnLH (5,722 comments) says:

    I think Judith’s claim that she is not partisan and would vote National if JK was not leader is looking pretty shaky. More and more, as in the above post, she sounds like a typical lefty, claiming National is fragmenting the country, which is bollocks.

    “but you should know, I do not subscribe to the trickle down effect.”

    Nobody does, and National’s policies could not reasonably be tagged with that lefty label.

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  25. ShawnLH (5,722 comments) says:

    “Some people you just cannot reason with.”

    Anyone who claims adopted children would be better off dead is not playing with a full deck.

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  26. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ trout (869 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 9:15 am

    You’ve obviously missed it. I do not vote labour, and I doubt there is anything that would make me do that.

    I am not pro-labour, but I am currently disgusted with much of national. I have predominately been a National supporter. I have family that were National MP’s, I voted John Key the first year he stood – but never again. My vote this year will be AGAINST them, but not FOR someone else. I hope you understand the difference.

    I will admit I probably should give up reading Kiwiblog, nothing makes me more anti national than some of the national supporting racists and bigots on here. One really shouldn’t judge a party by those few idiots.

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  27. minus (218 comments) says:

    Winston’s horse
    http://www.nzracing.co.nz/SystemTemplates/RaceInfoSearch.aspx?q=Bellazeel&s=All&g=All&r=undefined&t=Name#horse
    under you get –
    Owner: Brent & Cherry Taylor, Faith Taylor, Rae & Cliff Goss & Winston Peters Breeder: Miss D Ho

    How many questions in Parliament Question Time will it take for Peters to come clean on this?
    Now that this seems to have some substance, what was it the Horan said about a slush fund?

    (Incredible recovery from the flu, Winston)

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  28. minus (218 comments) says:

    Winston’s horse – sorry, missed reference “Performance”

    http://www.nzracing.co.nz/SystemTemplates/RaceInfoSearch.aspx?q=Bellazeel&s=All&g=All&r=undefined&t=Name#horse
    under “Performance” you get –
    Owner: Brent & Cherry Taylor, Faith Taylor, Rae & Cliff Goss & Winston Peters

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  29. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ trout (869 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 9:15 am

    Another point about John Key, yesterday it was pointed out to him that in New Zealand, 1% of New Zealanders have 16% of the wealth, and 50% of New Zealand shares 5% of the wealth, and his answer – an answer that one would expect to show some promise to all New Zealanders, and answer that showed he did care about inequality and that he would be doing something about …. his answer was ‘and Kim Dotcom is one of them [the 1%].

    That is not prime minister material, that is not wise, inspiring or anything else. That was pathetic, but demonstrates exactly what John Key thinks of New Zealanders and how much he cares about them.

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  30. ShawnLH (5,722 comments) says:

    “I voted John Key the first year he stood – but never again.”

    That makes zero sense. It was obvious from the start, as they were part of National’s manifesto, what policies they would pursue.

    To now claim your opposed to those policies begs the question as to why you voted for them in the first place.

    It is difficult to take your anti-Key hysteria seriously. In fact, it is becoming difficult to take anything you say seriously.

    All I am seeing in your posts is irrational, visceral dislike of JK.

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  31. iMP (2,420 comments) says:

    So apparently there is now a “gay voice.” Must be true if Star Trek’s Mr Sulu says so (see video). Once upon a time (when English was taught in schools) this was called an “affectation.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/10043967/Whats-wrong-with-sounding-gay

    But we’re told it is caused by persecution. Rii-ghht. That’s why Jews, Christians, and non-Islamists in Muslim nations all have the same “voice.” Got it.

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  32. trout (944 comments) says:

    Brendan Horan certainly lit a fire under Winston on National Radio this morning. So is Winston using his Leaders Budget unlawfully to pay Simon Lusk for campaign advice? The denials sounded like a rerun of the Owen Glen donation responses.
    Which all begs the question as to why major parties are sucking up the crap being served up by Winston and not responding. This has got to be the ‘MMP effect'; that protects a bullying obfuscating hypocrite that would not know the truth if he fell over it.

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  33. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Judith,

    Take your meds – there’s a good dear. ;-)

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  34. Ashley Schaeffer (513 comments) says:

    Judith, the way you keep throwing the inequality meme around, I think you’ve bought into the Left’s narrative without even realising it.

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  35. Cunningham (846 comments) says:

    Judith what do you propose then? Restricting the maximum salary of anyone in this country to a maximum of $300,000? I’m sorry but you live in fairy land. People earning this money pay a huge proportion of the tax in this country. Look at the tax stats Judith if you don’t believe me. Also many of these people have a huge amount of stress in their daily lives (more then most of us can imagine). I don’t know if you saw Q and A but the guy who is moving to head up NAB (can’t remember his name) is earning 2 million but he mentioned he is in charge of 42,000 people. Yes he is paid well but can you imagine the stress of having that responsability. I have no problem with his pay rate. I do have a problem with the accountability of some of these people who get bonuses even when it turns to shit.

    I think you say some interesting things but on the whole your views seem completely unrealistic to me.

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  36. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Another point about John Key, yesterday it was pointed out to him that in New Zealand, 1% of New Zealanders have 16% of the wealth

    Judith, that is GREAT NEWS ! :)

    Mr Key has “closed the gap” created under Labour in remarkably short time. That figure is much better than in most other countries. No wonder National & Key are so popular.

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  37. Nostalgia-NZ (5,278 comments) says:

    flipper 8.41. Isn’t the real surprise that Labour didn’t continue to back him as a candidate, perhaps it shows that the many headed monster has left the bridge. To my mind they pick up points on that, how much they push their position will be interesting because I’m sure just under the surface there is some resentment that Taurimu (self called victory and all) didn’t get to go troughing. It may be too finer point to be absorbed broadly across the electorate though, but is good leadership never the less, with the run down to the election, for Labour to have this up their sleeves if they continue on the Oravida theme.

    Anyway Budget Day arrives to a less bleak winter than that which falls across the Tasman. I don’t follow the politics there in any detail but it’s hard not to think that there is some connection to the tumultuous political landscape and the apparent lack of digging in much earlier.

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  38. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Ashley Schaeffer (351 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 9:39 am

    Ashley, I have worked as at the ‘front’ of the coalface, when I worked in the justice area with offenders, therefore I got to see for myself what goes on.

    I am also a social researcher by qualification – I did not have to ‘buy’ into anything – when statistics indicate that 1% has 16% and 50% has only 5%, they do not need to be Eisenstein to understand that equality is out of balance.

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  39. smttc (761 comments) says:

    Nice piece of satire there Liam.

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  40. Keeping Stock (10,414 comments) says:

    @ Liam Hehir; great stuff :D

    Also, congratulations on your column in the Manawatu Standard earlier in the week which I have highlighted at my blog this morning. The manner in which trade unions provide both cash and significant manpower to Labour is a genuine issue, especially now that the unions basically have the controlling vote over who becomes Labour leader. Good on you for making it a publicly debatable issue.

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  41. minus (218 comments) says:

    A Green Bank funded by oil royalties. Wouldn’t New Zealand need to find a reasonable amount of oil for that to amount to anything.
    Better to fund it with the ETS.
    This is still an ETS … isn’t there? Bleeding funds away on some senseless carbon monetary scheme while its innovators do jail time?

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  42. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Cunningham (779 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 9:40 am

    Of course I am unrealistic to you – because the alternative might make you less wealthy, or ruin the dream that the messiah is going to make you more wealthy.

    Wealth amassed at the expense of others, is not an admirable trait, and your argument that they pay more tax is really just another take on the trickle down theory isn’t it? When the poor get to subsist on the scraps dropped by the rich, giving the rich bigger meals means the poor are better feed.

    Take the minimum wage as an example of this.

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  43. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Judith, with your background, why am I having to remind you that the concentration of wealth and the gap between rich and poor got much worse under the Klark regime ?

    Why are you blaming National for what Labour created in this country ?

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  44. ShawnLH (5,722 comments) says:

    “when statistics indicate that 1% has 16% and 50% has only 5%, they do not need to be Eisenstein to understand that equality is out of balance.”

    Who says equality is a good thing? People trot this out as though it were self-evident, but it’s not.

    The issue of who earns or owns what is irrelevant. The real issue is not equality, but the degree of genuine poverty. Real poverty is not a social good for sure, but that actually has nothing to do with the figures your citing. It would is possible to lift up those at the bottom and still have similar stats regarding wealth disparity.

    The equality meme is a good way to look concerned for the poor without actually advocating anything of substance to deal with those at the bottom.

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  45. Cunningham (846 comments) says:

    Judith OK please tell us what you would do to make NZ a more equal society. I am genuinely interested.

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  46. ShawnLH (5,722 comments) says:

    “Equality may be a right, but no power on earth can convert it into fact.”

    Honoré de Balzac

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  47. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    The problem is not some people being too rich, that is just envy. The problem is when too many are too poor.

    Judith is doing what most lefties do and putting ideology ahead of outcomes for people. Labour had its chance to “close the gaps” and had that chance in a climate of prosperity. They failed badly, increasing the gap to the biggest in NZ history. The Nats are not perfect, but are doing better.

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  48. trout (944 comments) says:

    Judith, it may have escaped your notice that the present Government is doing it’s level best to make the cake bigger rather than devise ways to redivide it. We have a tax and welfare system that deals with redistribution And that strategy appears to have the support of the most Kiwis. The opposition parties seems to be intent on making the cake smaller by hobbling productive industry and hiking tax so that work and investment is disincentivised.

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  49. david (2,563 comments) says:

    Among all this bleating about what might or might not be in the budget, everyone (Media included) have missed one crucial point and that is that this Government has focussed heavily on the effectiveness of its policy delivery rather than just counting the dollars thrown at a particular policy area. This has, to a large extent, decoupled Government’s effectiveness from the financial system and to my mind has been incredibly effective.

    This aspect of the current Government has been largely ignored by political commentators and the media in general who appear to be obsessed with $ amounts rather than delivery of better service and outcomes.

    I’m not holding my breath waiting for this to permeate the consciousness of the media by osmosis because it would take a pretty hefty hammer to beat it in to their shallow minds but for one I am not at all concerned if the budget is as dull as cold dishwater because it is after all just a document describing the financial impact of the policies that are being operated by the current Government.

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  50. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    Inequality.

    When times are good the able and willing climb fast and earn heaps, the lazy and unable stay put. Inequality grows. The poor dont get poorer but are less ‘equal” because they dont work equally hard.

    Who gives a fuck?

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  51. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    “Some of my younger student relatives are firing some ‘Young Labour’ Propaganda round Facebook that says John Key is going to slam interest back onto Student Loans…”

    John Key hasn’t the balls to do something as blatantly sensible as this, same with pushing out the age for super to 70.

    Both are needed to bring the long term budget numbers into line, maybe in the third term Key might be willing to forgo short term politics to do what’s right, sadly I doubt it.

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  52. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Cunningham (780 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 9:52 am

    That’s really hard to argue in the short form but roughly although not completely some of the things I’d advocate are –

    You get rid of the current welfare policy and government housing etc – you reward initiative, hard work etc with incentives that encourage the work ethic, rather than discourage it. The minimum wage at its current level discourages because by time the cost of working is incorporated, it is no greater than the benefit.

    Emergency assistance should only be available in extreme cases and never long term ( other than those who can never be employed).

    Income protection insurance, accident insurances and other forms of income protection should be encouraged through tax incentives – to then lessen the need for welfare.

    Initiatives to up-skill the population, including work schemes that include training in areas where there are gaps should be encouraged – e.g. bring back night schools for those willing to advance their skill base

    Education needs to be easier to achieve – especially tertiary education. However, there needs to be emphasis on legitimate qualification as opposed to ‘degrees in star gazing’. Tertiary education should not be dependent upon your family’s financial condition – social mobility is achieved by up-skilling, but if education is only available to the wealthy, social mobility becomes impossible, hopelessness sets in, and all in society pay for that with negative social statistics.

    You make the minimum wage sufficient that earning it is far more desirable than receiving the benefit – jobs will not be lost if the wage is increased – if a business is operating to such a thin level that this increase will adversely affect them, then they are unlikely to survive anyway – and workers paid a reasonable amount make better producers.

    Housing – the government should not be domestic landlords, which means they end up sorting out domestic problems etc.
    Government land should be leased to prospective home owners who can take long term leases on sections and build their own houses – thus decreasing the level required to borrow and allowing more home ownership.

    Families need to be encouraged to share responsibility. Incentives to encourage our aging population to share accommodation – serves a social purpose as well as financial. Three generations sharing the family home can be advantageous – reduces aged care, reduces poor health (statistically people that live alone suffer more illnesses etc), child care shared and so on.

    In short incentives to encourage social responsibility — encourage the work ethic with reward, not punishment, and educate everyone regardless of whether they can afford it or not – our nations future depends on it.

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  53. Ryan Sproull (7,279 comments) says:

    Labelling all concern about inequality as “envy” handily precludes the possibility of recognising justified outrage at unfairness.

    Great inequality of outcome can come about fairly, but that doesn’t mean that every greatly unequal outcome is fair.

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  54. Ryan Sproull (7,279 comments) says:

    When times are good the able and willing climb fast and earn heaps, the lazy and unable stay put. Inequality grows. The poor dont get poorer but are less ‘equal” because they dont work equally hard.

    Who gives a fuck?

    That’s fine when inequality is caused by people not working equally hard, and when that inequality is proportionate to the inequality of the value of the work they do (whether hard, valuable or both).

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  55. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Colville (1,815 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 10:14 am Who gives a fuck

    I care, because each year I have to pay more and more and more towards a system that keeps encouraging the same, and thus ensuring that I pay more and more.

    When all in society have equal access to being able to improve their social position, we all benefit. Yes, there will always be those that through choice and birth are unable to be independent, but a society that encourages those that can, to reach their full potential, will always do better than one that only encourages it in only some.

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  56. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    DON HA http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10726998
    High-flying South Auckland real estate mogul and thoroughbred horse fan Don Ha borrowed $7 million from state-owned Kiwibank but could not repay his debts.

    just a random thought Is this guy involved with whinnies horses? d/ Ho Ha

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  57. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull, I agree entirely. I am not at all happy with the income disparity in our society. The conversation needs to focus on the best way of remedying the situation and not on political ideology. If the current situation is not improved then the voters will make the disasterous, but understandable, choice of moving much further left. The right needs to wake-up and realise what history has taught us.

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  58. jcuk (713 comments) says:

    On the subject of equality I think all should read and support the views of Thomas Piketty …”Capital in the 21st Century”
    It is obsene that some earn those high salaries / make huge incomes and avoid paying a good share of tax to ensure those at the bottom are not that far below a reasonable standard of living.

    It is a question of relativity … there should be return for effort while maintaining a sensible relativity.

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  59. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    Dime loves inequality!

    Eventually some of these shit bags may hit rock bottom and start doing something outrageous like – working for a living! studying! taking jobs they deem to be “beneath them”.

    Look how people lived in the glorious 50’s. the bottom 50%. look at what they had, how they lived, how long they lived, access to tertiary education, international travel etc etc etc

    compare that to now.

    whats better?

    the poor have NEVER had it this good. Hence we have to worry about inequality!

    Dime loves life but maybe he should be upset – look how much money eric watson has! thats not fair wah wah wah go fuck yourself

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  60. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    “It is obsene that some earn those high salaries / make huge incomes and avoid paying a good share of tax to ensure those at the bottom are not that far below a reasonable standard of living.

    It is a question of relativity … there should be return for effort while maintaining a sensible relativity.”

    BIG Government is what enables that to happen. Being bought and paid for. Constantly introducing new regulations and barriers to entry. Every year it gets harder to start a business and compete.

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  61. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    dime, you filthy capitalist pig growing fat on the blood of the workers. You need to read some history. Huge income disparity does not end well for the wealthy land owners. To say the least ! :)

    Ignore the unwashed masses at your peril.

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  62. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Judith.

    You wish is list – from what I can see – is exactly what the Key government is attempting to do, despite having to dig out of the WFC. There are areas, obviously, where the governemtn could do better – like removing some of the socialist schemes introduced by Klark and maintained by Key.
    But I do believe that this government is conducting itself with discipline in economic terms, which is the only way for everyone to be lifted up, so to speak. I disagree with Key on his continuing Klark’s, and his own social engineering, but it is difficult to fault the way they handle the economy – they are operating with a social conscience – hardly just looking after their “rich prick mates”.

    Have you read “Rerum Novarum”? Contains much of what you say.

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  63. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Left Right and Centre (2,550 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 10:48 am

    If that comment is meant for me dear, I’m almost 60, and haven’t had to worry about ‘cycles’ for over a decade. Nice try sweetie! ;-)

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  64. Ryan Sproull (7,279 comments) says:

    Ryan Sproull, I agree entirely. I am not at all happy with the income disparity in our society. The conversation needs to focus on the best way of remedying the situation and not on political ideology. If the current situation is not improved then the voters will make the disasterous, but understandable, choice of moving much further left. The right needs to wake-up and realise what history has taught us.

    I’m also not happy with the income disparity in our society, though I’m not bothered by income disparity itself – which is to say, my complaint about our income disparity (well, wealth disparity) is not because it’s unequal, but because of how that inequality comes about.

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  65. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Don the Kiwi (1,371 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 10:47 am

    No, I haven’t read or heard of “Rerum Novarum” – I will seek it out.

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  66. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Keep eating you cake……the peasants are revolting.

    history should not be ignored.

    Workers on the minimum wage are struggling to survive.. Managers have far too much income to actually use.

    Telecom’s chief earns the same as around 200 technicians. Sack the grossly paid boss nothing changes. sack 200 techies and the company will totally collapse in hours.

    If the present trend in escalating management incomes continue It will end in tears…… when not if….

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  67. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    “dime, you filthy capitalist pig growing fat on the blood of the workers. You need to read some history. Huge income disparity does not end well for the wealthy land owners. To say the least ! :)

    Ignore the unwashed masses at your peril.”

    so modern day will end up like old days? people will start a revolution to get the iphone 6? cause the govt paid for iphone 4 sucks?

    in all honesty, id like to see every richer. more people to buy Dimes luxury goods :) :) BUT im not buying into this left wing bullshit about inequality because their answer never changes – more wealth redistribution. they can get fucked.

    less govt is the answer. you know it, i know it, the left know it. but less govt is the last thing they want.

    less poor people = less need for govt. the lefts worst nightmare. power loss arghhh

    Ranting Dime.

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  68. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    No scaredy cats here! Video shows dramatic moment Tara the fearless feline saves autistic boy, 4, from attack by neighbor’s dog:

    An astonishing video has shown the moment that a family’s cat came to the rescue of their four-year-old son after he was viciously attacked by a neighbor’s dog.

    Jeremy Triantafilo was sitting on his bicycle outside his family’s home in Bakersfield, California on Tuesday when the dog escaped its home through an open gate and crept up on him from behind.

    Surveillance footage, which Jeremy’s father uploaded to YouTube, shows the dog grabbing the boy’s leg and pulling him to the ground before violently shaking him with his teeth clamped tight.

    Then suddenly, an unlikely hero bounds towards him – the family’s cat, Tara.

    The video shows the fearless feline jumping on the dog with enough force to push him away from the boy. Tara then chases the dog away from the driveway with its leg between its tail.

    It’s quite spectacular, the way the cat comes flying out within a seconds of the boy being attacked.

    Take that, Gareth Morgan!

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  69. Colville (2,298 comments) says:

    Yeah we need a decent sized trench based war with lots over over the top charges into the teeth of significant machine gunfire to sort out the great unwashed masses…

    Population control has worked well for the rich well in the past ;-)

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  70. Scott Chris (6,176 comments) says:

    When times are good the able and willing climb fast and earn heaps, the lazy and unable stay put.

    The quality of a society can be measured by how it treats the less fortunate. If you’re lucky enough to be born or equipped with smarts and ambition spare a though for those who aren’t.

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  71. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    dime, I largely agree with you, but I still have some residual human compassion that prevents me agreeing 100% ;)

    Good people on the left and right, want the same things. The main difference is in how to achieve those things.

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  72. Komata (1,198 comments) says:

    Judith

    I very carefully read through your posts whenever I come across them, and have at times had ‘interesting’ discussions with you about various matters (state housing comes to mind) as you would be aware. However, your most- recent comments puzzle me.

    You have made it very clear that because John Key ‘reneged’ on a personal promise had made to you you dislike him with a passion. Fair enough, and to each their own. You have equally said, several times (and even today) that you voted for National once, but will never do-so again (apparently because of JK’s ‘broken promise’ to you). This is also fair enough, and, again, to each their own, although I would suggest that perhaps six years is an awfully-long time to carry a grudge, especially as I understand you are a qualified Psych’…..

    Be that as it may, and as we have come to expect, due to your very public personal vendetta against JK (and, by extension, the NZ National Party), this morning, you have again stated that you ‘… Am not pro-labour’ and that ‘I have predominately been a National supporter’, and that ‘My vote this year will be AGAINST them, but not FOR someone else. I hope you understand the difference’.

    I certainly DO understand the difference, and in that context, might I respectfully suggest that, by voting this year ‘…AGAINST them, but not FOR someone else….’ you are cutting off your nose to spite your face and that you will be effectively handing labour (whom you state you dislike more than National) your vote on a platter. By doing-so, you will be effectively endorsing the very things you don’t like; State control of everything, with more to follow, should labour get back in power, a fact likely to be compounded if the gweens come in as well…

    If your extreme dislike of John Key is worth so much to you, that you (by doing nothing with your vote, and indeed ‘abstaining’ from the process), are prepared to not vote to get back at him, then that is your business, but I would suggest that it is now colouring your decision and that, ultimately, you will be the loser, as by doing nothing you are passively allowing labour to use you.

    I believe such an action would come under the classification ‘unintended consequences’, and that ‘To vote or not to vote’ would seem to the question…

    And finally, in respect of ‘I will admit I probably should give up reading Kiwiblog, nothing makes me more anti national than some of the national supporting racists and bigots on here. One really shouldn’t judge a party by those few idiots’.

    While I doubt that you will give up reading Kiwiblog, I would suggest that the use of such words as those ‘ma’am, does not become you, and actually serves to lower the tone of your discourse; better to say nothing that descend down such a slippery path….

    Just some observations you may care to consider (or discard) as you see fit…

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  73. J Bloggs (250 comments) says:

    Colville: Don’t need a war (which also tends to upset the masses, as they well know they’ll be the ones sent over the top). Given the increasing proliferation of antibiotic resistant diseases, we’ll soon have a population controlling plague that will solve a lot of problems (not the least of which will be the anti-vaccine loonies, who’ll be the among the first to go) :D

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  74. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    If that comment is meant for me dear, I’m almost 60, and haven’t had to worry about ‘cycles’ for over a decade. Nice try sweetie!

    I know – I remembered that you’re ancient and so that post had to depart this world for the great blog comments section in the sky . . .

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  75. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    “If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for … but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.”
    Robert Anson Heinlein

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  76. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    “Good people on the left and right, want the same things. The main difference is in how to achieve those things.”

    yeah great people on the left. they just want to steal more of my money than the guy on the right.

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  77. MT_Tinman (3,256 comments) says:

    griffith (953 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 10:59 am
    ……the peasants are revolting.

    On that we agree.

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  78. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    dime, yes too often that is the case. The trouble is it does not work and everyone ends up poorer. If it actually resulted in improved outcomes for people I would be the biggest lefty around, ideology aside. A few mates of mine were brought up in the GDR. They have a few stories about the socialist dream and the GDR was one of the most successful and richest !

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  79. Paulus (2,660 comments) says:

    The soon to be superannuant who goes by the pseudonym Judith should confine herself to the Stranded under her other pseudonym.

    Obviously she does not have a jib as she can spend all day on both blogsites.

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  80. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    “A few mates of mine were brought up in the GDR. They have a few stories about the socialist dream and the GDR was one of the most successful and richest !”

    I got suspicious when i read “a few mates of mine”…

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  81. Ryan Sproull (7,279 comments) says:

    yeah great people on the left. they just want to steal more of my money than the guy on the right.

    The left wants to steal from the capital owners with taxation. The right wants to steal from the workers with capitalism.

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  82. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    dime, you can get as suspicious as you like. There are many German people in my area, and many of them are ossi’s. I had an East German partner for years and have stayed in the region. Great hospitality btw and a beautiful area.

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  83. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    kea – suspicious that you have MATES. not where they are from :D

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  84. Longknives (4,868 comments) says:

    Gott Im Himmel!!

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  85. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    dime, some people hate my guts with a passion. I tend to have a polarising effect. Can’t think why ! ;)

    You won’t find many delicate types sitting around drinking with us lot.

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  86. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    There aint no budget on earth that is going to save economies like NZ from an ever-increasing proportion of nongs like Alida Parker.

    Looks like typical dumbarse white airhead. Knocked up by 20. Of course – relationship lasted how long ? She’s 23 now – mmhmmm.

    And her qualifications are what exactly ? Fuck all. Choice – let’s reproduce. Named the boy Felix. That’s a fucking pet’s name girl !!

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  87. Grendel (1,003 comments) says:

    Ryan, please explain how engaging in a willing transaction via capitalism is in anyway ‘stealing’ from the poor.

    i know its the lefty trope but its bullshit. if you dont want what i am selling dont buy it. the only way capitalism works the way you are trying to imply is when its been corrupted by government so we have to buy from you, or you have skewed the game via extra taxes etc to make the supply and demand equilibrium out of whack. at that point, its not really capitalism anymore, its closer to corporatism, and thats left wing.

    a true right wing, free market capitlism steals from no-one.

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  88. hj (7,063 comments) says:

    Gareth Renowdens slip showing?

    Quoting Morgan Godfrey

    The social history of the Pacific is one of migration, from the early Austronesian and Polynesian expansions to the recent European settler migration. How can we say no to refugees when we are all migrants ourselves?

    Quite so.

    …….
    which logical fallacy are we seeing there?
    Polynesian expansion was also about over population.
    Big people aren’t they?

    jh May 15, 2014 at 9:27 am

    Sounds like Gareth is the sort of two tone environmentalist. Big on things like climate change but blind to population biology. A Marxist paradigm?

    Reply

    nigelj May 15, 2014 at 10:44 am

    JH, this website is about climate science, not population biology. Reducing population is not an answer to climate change. You would require really large reductions in numbers, and / or rates of growth that are unrealistic in every way. This is why intelligent people don’t bother going there.

    Gareth May 15, 2014 at 10:53 am

    What Nigel said. When I want to run a blog on demography and population, I’ll start one.

    http://hot-topic.co.nz/morgan-godfery-no-climate-refugees-please-were-new-zealanders

    Actually population and climate change are joined at the hip but my point is do we have a responsibility (equivalent to throwing the borders open) to people in climate change affected countries (like Bangladesh)? He is sounding Keith Locke and Jan logie-ish (“anti immigration feeling has no place in the Green Party”)?

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  89. Longknives (4,868 comments) says:

    Look out Gareth Morgan- The legendary Black Sabbath are onto you…..

    http://loudwire.com/black-sabbath-geezer-butler-help-find-new-york-cat-killer/

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  90. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Left Right and Centre (2,551 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 11:13 am

    Oh well, never mind, perhaps you could start on something about senile decay instead. :-)

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  91. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Actually population and climate change are joined at the hip

    No amount of environmental protection measures will do us any good if the population continues to rise. No amount of hemp shopping bags. windmills and hybrid car driving by the white middle class will make up for having a baby. Even the most severe enviromental protections will buy humanity more that a few brief years extra.

    The green movement don’t want to campaign on this one. Hard to raise support by telling people not to have kids. For this reason we are destined to a bleak future. Disease and war will be the result.

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  92. publicwatchdog (2,811 comments) says:

    Interested in inequality?

    Causes?

    Solutions?

    Got your diary out folks!

    Upcoming Robb Lectures at Auckland University on

    ‘The human cost of inequality’

    Fisher and Paykel lecture theatre,
    Owen Glenn Building Grafton Rd

    https://www.auckland.ac.nz/en/about/news-events-and-notices/events/events-2014/05/sir-douglas-robb-lectures.html

    7.30pm

    Monday 19 May “Evidence of damage”
    Wednesday 21 May “The causal prosesses”
    Friday 23 May “The solution”

    ___________________________________________________________________________________________

    Gosh!

    I might meet some Kiwibloggers!

    But how would I recognise you?

    Given that SO many of you are ANONYMOUS?

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright

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  93. flipper (4,198 comments) says:

    Nostalgia-NZ (4,750 comments) says:

    May 15th, 2014 at 9:43 am

    flipper 8.41. Isn’t the real surprise that Labour didn’t continue to back him as a candidate, perhaps it shows that the many headed monster has left the bridge. To my mind they pick up points on that, how much they push their position will be interesting because I’m sure just
    ****
    Been busy on other matters or would have come back earlier….. so by way of a quick comment, before I am off again… the following is the text of an email I received yesterday from a buddy in Melbourne. He is a former editor in Chief of The Age….
    ***
    “Good morning
    I deliberately stayed away from TV last night so my judgement – such as it will be – relies on the AFR and THE AUSTRALIAN plus many leaks in advance of the budget. It is potentially a game changer, moving on welfare payments that are ENORMOUS in this country and signalling that the states will have to do the heavy lifting in future on health and education (This means an increase will be necessary in the rate and scale of the GST at some time in the next few years). Paul Kelly, editor at large of The Australian thinks it is a budget of genuine reform, but politically dangerous. I imagine the polls will turn down dramatically for the government on the short-medium term. Labour left this country in a helluva mess. The consensus is that this budget puts our fiscal position “on the right track” but there is a long way to go. The government has made lots of tough decisions. You will hear the whining over there.

    Himself. “

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  94. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Komata (1,009 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 11:12 am

    I voted National in almost every election (except one time when I wanted to shock my tory relations) until I voted for John Key.
    I do not believe John Key is good for this country, he is too much like Muldoon, and whilst on the surface seems great, in essence he is not. My experience with him was not a grudge – he lied. That is he proved himself to be dishonest. A leader of a nation as great as New Zealand, should not be dishonest. He does not deserve to head this great nation in my opinion.

    Having said that, there are things he has done that need recognition, and I have not been past saying just that, when I think so.

    My vote this year is against what I see has destructive governance – I am perfectly aware John Key will still be our prime minister, but I am hoping if enough take the stand I am, he will at least be made to be a little humble, and accept that he is ‘not god’s gift to creation’ and that the job of prime minister comes with a responsibility to ALL New Zealanders. A smaller majority might just give him the wake up call he needs. (see my comment regarding his reply to wealth yesterday – that was the most stupid answer that has come out of his mouth, but one that says a lot about him).

    Thank you for taking the time to comment, and yes I do agree with much of what you say and obviously not with some of it. I will continue to read here, and post, if for no other reason than allowing some to see that people do disagree with them. Sometimes I even post tongue in cheek, just to raise an awareness to an opposing argument, that I don’t necessarily support myself. Many here are not as objective as you – their blind adoration annoys me, as much as those who were the same about Helen used to. When we stop questioning our leaders and start blindly accepting everything they say, just because ‘they’ said it, the future is in great jeopardy.

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  95. publicwatchdog (2,811 comments) says:

    Always (at least) two sides to the story?

    Winston Peter’s reply to Brendan Horan’s allegations:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1405/S00227/allegations-over-a-horse-started-by-stupid-nag-with-a-grudge.htm

    Allegations Over a Horse Started by Stupid Nag with a Grudge

    Wednesday, 14 May 2014, 4:41 pm
    Press Release: New Zealand First Party
    Rt Hon Winston Peters

    New Zealand First Leader
    14 May 2014
    ALLEGATIONS OVER A HORSE STARTED BY STUPID NAG WITH A GRUDGE

    “The allegation made against me today via the news media that I should have declared a small, short term lease interest in a racehorse is worse than just bunkum, it is a deliberate attempt at character assassination.

    “That attempt is again bound to fail.

    “The details are:

    1. No declaration is required to own a horse, let alone lease a 10 per cent share in it.

    2. At a charity auction I bought that share in a lease, which has expired.

    3. I did not seek to get a tax rebate on the charity.

    4. The difference between my outlay at the auction and my personal returns on the horse was a 400 per cent deficit.

    5. I never had an ownership share, but a short-term leased share in a syndicate.

    6. The New Zealand Racing Board has confirmed with me that my interests appeared in a syndicate lease, which is never ownership.

    7. The auction took place in late 2008 and even if there was a requirement to declare, which there is not, I was not in parliament for declarations in 2009, ie, good night nurse on this one.

    “I have no regrets in sharing personally the disappointing experience of so many people interested in the racing industry under a Government that is sending many of the owners and trainers to investment ruin.

    “I am genuinely interested in understanding as much as I can about this industry, as I am in other industries that bring so much wealth to New Zealand.

    “That’s why, to be modest, I am pleased to say the industry wants me back as Minister.

    “This stupid allegation comes from a thoroughly discredited nag that crashed into the first hurdle.

    “Those who believe him need to know that character assassination, deceit and lies is not going to save them at this election.

    “PS The nag owns a horse but he won’t pay the trainer,” says Mr Peters.

    ENDS

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  96. Ryan Sproull (7,279 comments) says:

    Ryan, please explain how engaging in a willing transaction via capitalism is in anyway ‘stealing’ from the poor.

    It’s not, Grendel. That’s not the element of capitalism I’m talking about. I’m talking about capitalism’s tendency to reward people for owning capital which is disproportionately greater than their contribution through doing work that creates value. (To the point where it’s even possible for someone to lay about doing absolutely nothing and live off the returns on their property!)

    Some idea of what I’m saying is covered in this previous conversation on Kiwiblog in March. I have vague plans of writing up my thoughts (which are not original ones) on my blog at some point.

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  97. Manolo (14,044 comments) says:

    On Australia’s welfare spending: http://lindsaymitchell.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/australian-welfare-spending.html

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  98. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    What do we think sent Judith over the edge?

    Apparently John Key lied to her face.

    Must be some sort of hand out that never came?

    Either way, JK owes us, cause now we have to live with the irrational hate

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  99. UrbanNeocolonialist (309 comments) says:

    Gini coefficient (measure of income inequality) have not risen since National came to power in ’08:
    http://gropingtobethlehem.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/gini_trend.png

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  100. wikiriwhis business (4,116 comments) says:

    “Either way, JK owes us, cause now we have to live with the irrational hate”

    for another term at least cause JK hits the highway if he loses.

    And not sure he will complete another term anyway if he gets the TPP thru. Why should he

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  101. wikiriwhis business (4,116 comments) says:

    “Ignore the unwashed masses at your peril.”

    Think French Revolution, American Revolution.

    The white House has and they armed to the teeth whilst taken arms off the people.

    Exactly as pre war Germany did

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  102. wikiriwhis business (4,116 comments) says:

    “Ranting Dime.”

    Was good today.

    Although, curious about these quality products you flogging

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  103. wikiriwhis business (4,116 comments) says:

    “Why are you blaming National for what Labour created in this country ?”

    ooo, ooo, That’s easy. I can answer that.

    Cause National never revokes Labour initiatives. Neither Labour, Nationals.

    That’s why they are a coalition

    Duh Homer.

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  104. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business, dime won’t be so upitty when he stands before the; Peoples Worker Peasant Farmer Revolutionary Socialist Proletariat Court, to face his numerous crimes ;)

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  105. All_on_Red (1,644 comments) says:

    Penny Bright
    “Gosh!

    I might meet some Kiwibloggers!

    But how would I recognise you?

    Given that SO many of you are ANONYMOUS?

    Kind regards,

    Penny Bright”

    Easy, we’ll be the ones bidding for your house when it’s auctioned.

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  106. Ryan Sproull (7,279 comments) says:

    I might meet some Kiwibloggers!

    But how would I recognise you?

    Given that SO many of you are ANONYMOUS?

    I’m not anonymous, Penny. Does that mean you could recognise me?

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  107. Pete George (23,682 comments) says:

    Maxim Institute have a nifty Income Tax Tracker.

    Put in an annual income -it shows total tax and how it is split across different Government expenditures.

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  108. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ dime (8,920 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 1:18 pm

    I’ve never asked John Key for a personal handout in my life. I was an adviser for a group seeking assistance. As part of offering assistance, JK promised he would put forward a certain argument to others involved in order to assist the group. It was not a group requiring a hand-out – just a hand up. Any man is only as good as his word.

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  109. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    “wikiriwhis business, dime won’t be so upitty when he stands before the; Peoples Worker Peasant Farmer Revolutionary Socialist Proletariat Court, to face his numerous crimes ”

    bahaha nah ill go out like that sociopath saddam, mouthing off!

    wiki – cant tell ya what i import. it would give away my secret identity :)

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  110. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    Thanks for that PG. nice to know im paying 20+ to welfare and 10+ to educate other peoples kids.

    brb. slitting wrists.

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  111. dime (10,100 comments) says:

    “I’ve never asked John Key for a personal handout in my life. I was an adviser for a group seeking assistance. As part of offering assistance, JK promised he would put forward a certain argument to others involved in order to assist the group. It was not a group requiring a hand-out – just a hand up. Any man is only as good as his word.”

    What if AFTER the promise, new information came his way and the best path was to not do what YOU wanted. he should still have kept his promise no doubt.

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  112. Sofia (864 comments) says:

    Penny on Winston’s horse

    Penny, just like a fucking magpie you dump your krap in the kiwiblog nest and don’t even read what precedes it in
    the debate
    Otherwise you could read above, and check for yourself

    http://www.nzracing.co.nz/SystemTemplates/RaceInfoSearch.aspx?q=Bellazeel&s=All&g=All&r=undefined&t=Name#horse
    under “Performance” you get –
    Owner: Brent & Cherry Taylor, Faith Taylor, Rae & Cliff Goss & Winston Peters

    Winston co-owns the fucking horse.

    “ENDS”? – no, to be bloody continued

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  113. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “bahaha nah ill go out like that sociopath saddam, mouthing off!”

    dime, make sure you bring evidence of your accounts and property holdings to the hearing. They will make valuable learning aids at the re-education facility in Gore ;)

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  114. stephieboy (3,386 comments) says:

    wikiriwhis business (3,455 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 1:27 pm
    “Ignore the unwashed masses at your peril.”

    Think French Revolution, American Revolution.

    The white House has and they armed to the teeth whilst taken arms off the people.

    Exactly as pre war Germany did”

    Could you expand on this especially the third land fourth lines.?

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  115. minus (218 comments) says:

    Prosecute “deniers”

    On 13 March 2014 Australian academic, Lawrence Torcello, Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Rochester Institute of Technology, wrote a post on a state funded website advocating for the prosecution of people for simply holding a contrary view on climate change to him.

    Lawrence Torcello –
    “The importance of clearly communicating science to the public should not be underestimated. Accurately understanding our natural environment and sharing that information can be a matter of life or death. When it comes to global warming, much of the public remains in denial about a set of facts that the majority of scientists clearly agree on. With such high stakes, an organised campaign funding misinformation ought to be considered criminally negligent.”

    Where would this place Governments like New Zealand’s which has shuffled most of this issue into a collapsing non-effective ETS with so many exclusions that it is rendered useless?
    It’s not denial, but it sure as hell isn’t doing anything about the real problem, even locally.
    Is a diversion any better than a denial?

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  116. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    stupidboy allow me …

    The Nazi Socialists in Germany did what ALL Socialist regimes do. They took the guns off the people so only they [the Socialists] had them. Then the rounding up and killing began in ernest.

    The rest is history.

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  117. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Judith.

    You have to be the archetypal woman. :-)

    A government does pretty much exactly what you would aspire them to do. But because the leader – 1 out of 62 of the government members – pisses you off over a broken promise, you will vote against them out of ……..

    Yes, my wife would be proud of you. ;-)

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  118. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    minus @ 2:16pm, That’s nothing ! :)

    Warmists have called for:

    1. The death penalty for “deniers” [sic]

    2. Compulsory mental health treatment for “deniers”.

    3. Making “denial” a criminal offence.

    4. Laws preventing the publication of a contrary view.

    The general population does not realise how fanatical these trully are !

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  119. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Right Kea.

    And griffith agrees with them – bloody commies. :-)

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  120. Ryan Sproull (7,279 comments) says:

    Warmists have called for:

    1. The death penalty for “deniers” [sic]

    2. Compulsory mental health treatment for “deniers”.

    3. Making “denial” a criminal offence.

    4. Laws preventing the publication of a contrary view.

    I’ve done no such things.

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  121. stephieboy (3,386 comments) says:

    kea, warmists fanatical.?

    Your should talk.

    You yourself would be quite comfortable with those penalties judging by yesterday and beyond.
    Re Guns and Nazi Germany.
    I was asking wiki , not you Ms chronic know it all.

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  122. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Ryan, not you my sensible friend.

    I invite you to do a few Google searches before typing Trooooooolllllllllllllllllll ;)

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  123. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    :lol:
    stupidity should be an offense worthy of the death penalty Darwin’s law style As we no longer let nature run its course
    That means you would be executed kea. not for your wingnut denial just for being a pointless moron……

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  124. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “You yourself would be quite comfortable with those penalties judging by yesterday and beyond.”

    stupidboy, that will be due to my condemnation of war, violence and vilification of certain groups and a general opposition to joining in the daily hate-fest ?

    I might an opinionated prick, but I would never do what you would do to others.

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  125. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    That means you would be executed kea…your wingnut denial

    Told ya so. :)

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  126. David Garrett (7,533 comments) says:

    Now and again some case comes along that makes me feel particularly good about 3S….an horrific story on Stuff is one of those times….POS rammed his finger down what appears to be his own baby’s throat (as opposed to evidence of the previous “partner”) resulting in the wee girl almost drowning in her own blood…POS pleads not guilty – and surprise surprise, still maintains his innocence..

    (I cant work the link thingie…its under the headline on the ‘Stuff’ home page “Father jailed for wounding baby”)

    POS has lengthy history of violence, including an aggravated robbery in 2009….POS gets a richly deserved 6.5 years inside….had 3S been in force ten years ago he almost certainly wouldn’t have had the chance to nearly kill a child…If the Agg robb had been his third strike he would have got 14 years no parole in 2009…that would have seen him in the can till 2023….

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  127. stephieboy (3,386 comments) says:

    kea, I forgot that you have renounced the the prophet and his religion of peace.
    Pat Condell has finally got through to your jelly matter.
    Take us through the conversion process.?

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  128. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    stupidboy, I have always agreed with Pats view on Islam. It is you who does not get his message regarding religious nonsense. I am an atheist. Radical Islam offends me greatly, as does radical Judaism, Christianity, Hindus…

    Even if I am wrong, you will not lie and hate your way to heaven my unfortunate friend :)

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  129. stephieboy (3,386 comments) says:

    kea, radical Isalm offends you?

    I don’t believe you.!

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  130. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Kea why do you think misrepresenting posts is funny? it is just doubling down on your well-known trolling .

    That means you would be executed kea. for being a pointless trolling moron…

    Or do you really have such a problem with understanding the written word. Does more than five words in a sentence confuses you? The term just enough brains not to eat your self springs to mind
    Is there a reason why you haven’t actually eaten your self yet? bad teeth? vegetarian? or do they keep you restrained?

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  131. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “I don’t believe you.!”

    I don’t care :)

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  132. Komata (1,198 comments) says:

    Judith

    Thank you for the reply and clarification; it is greatly appreciated.

    Unfortunately, I fear that if you are looking for an ‘Honest’ politician (as in ‘one who does not lie) you may well be on something of a fools errand, especially when carefully analysing the current leaders of the opposition (irrespective of their shade). Sadly, none that I am currently aware-of meet your criteria of being ‘A leader of a nation as great as New Zealand, should not be dishonest’. One especially seems to be extremely economical with the truth, while others are into ‘obscurification’ in very large quantities (especially in respect of ‘perks’ and horses….).

    And, of course, there are those who are actively devoted to DESTROYING the ‘…Great nation of New Zealand’ because to do so is part of a larger ideological agenda…

    All of which. of course must present you with considerable problems, since as they ALL lie, what options do you have. Does it come down to a matter of ‘degree’?

    BTW (if I may ask), which of the Opposition ‘Leaders’ would you nominate for the position of an ‘Honest’ leader, especially as ‘…The job of prime minister comes with a responsibility to ALL New Zealanders’. No specific individual come to immediately to mind.

    In respect of ‘…Destructive governance’, you would of course recall the Clark era? ‘Nuff said. And, FWIW, as a personification of your comment ‘When we stop questioning our leaders and start blindly accepting everything they say, just because ‘they’ said it, the future is in great jeopardy’, I can’t think of a better current example to which the statement can be applied than the NZ labour Party.

    Finally, Although ‘A smaller majority might just give him [JK] the wake up call he needs’, you are of course aware that it will also encourage the trolls (who don’t like the light) and will increase their attempts to destroy it (‘light’ being a comparative term of course). Trolls really don’t like light, and will do their best to extinguish it. A lowered majority would cause them to redouble their efforts, aided and abetted by their pre-existing fifth column…

    Better what you know than what you don’t, I suspect.

    Again, thanks for your reply.

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  133. ShawnLH (5,722 comments) says:

    “that will be due to my condemnation of war, violence and vilification of certain groups”

    You have been very happy to vilify religious people as a group.

    “and a general opposition to joining in the daily hate-fest ?”

    Your posts are part of the daily hate-fest, and are themselves filled with hate. Not to mention utterly moronic crap about Muslims being in the Bible and anti-Semitism being no different to disliking golfers and rugby players.

    When I was first told about you and your banning I went back and found your posts. They were by far and away the most rabidly hateful posts on KB at the time, filled with viscous, almost psychopathic hatred for all sorts of different groups, which is partly why you got banned.

    Your not who you claim to be Kea, and if you really think your some crusader against hate, then your in serious need of psychotherapy for your epic level of self-delusion.

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  134. ShawnLH (5,722 comments) says:

    “Kea why do you think misrepresenting posts is funny? ”

    It requires intelligence, patience, and depth of character to read carefully what people actually write and make a rational response.

    These qualities are not poor little Kea’s strong points. :)

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  135. Manolo (14,044 comments) says:

    Tom Scott, shameless Chardonnay socialist and Labour supporter, does his bit for the party:
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/comment/cartoons/6736460/Tom-Scott-and-others

    Another reason not to touch that left-wing newspaper.

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  136. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Not to mention utterly moronic crap about Muslims being in the Bible

    Ibrahim (Abraham) was neither a Jew nor a Christian, but he was a true Muslim Hanifa (Islamic Monotheism – to worship none but Allah Alone) and he was not of Al-Mushrikun
    Quran 3:67

    Muslim doesn’t mean people who call themselves Muslims.

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  137. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Ishmael

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  138. ShawnLH (5,722 comments) says:

    Ishmael was not a Muslim. Islam was not born until 622 A.D, the date of the Haj, and several hundred years after the completion of the Bible.

    Ishmael is considered to have been the father of the Arabs, but Arab does not mean Muslim. Arabs are an ethnic group who practice a variety of religions, including Christianity.

    People should stick to subjects they have real knowledge about. In your case I have no idea what that might be. :)

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  139. Ryan Sproull (7,279 comments) says:

    Muslim doesn’t mean people who call themselves Muslims.

    That’s moving the goalposts a bit, UglyTruth. English-speakers are pretty much agreed on “Muslim” meaning “followers of the religion Islam which began in the 7th century CE”.

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  140. Manolo (14,044 comments) says:

    To delight and cheer up stephie’s baby: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/14/clintons-seek-to-show-new-vigor-amid-age-worries/

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  141. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Abraham was a Chaldean from the city of Ur – a Semitic people who inhabited the area now known as Iraq or Mesopotamia. Babylon was one of its main cities after the time of Abraham. His two sons were Isaac and Ishmael. Abram – as he was known at first – is the patriarch, named Abraham by God – whose legitimate son was Isaac, and Ishmael was his son by his concubine, whom the Arabs – and later the Muslims – claim as their patriarch. However, the legitimate line is through Isaac, who fathered Jacob who was named Israel by God.

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  142. Manolo (14,044 comments) says:

    Jokes about shit Muslims:

    Q: How do you tell a Sunni from a Shiite?
    A: The Sunnis are the ones with the Shiite blown out of them.

    Q: What’s the difference between a Muslim and a vampire?
    A: At some point the vampire will stop being bloodthirsty.

    Q: What’s the difference between Mike Tyson and Osama Bin Laden?
    A: Mike Tyson can take a shot to the head.

    Q: Did you hear about the Catholic Iraqi?
    A: He was a Shite Muslim.

    Q: Did you hear about the winner of the Islam beauty contest?
    A: Me neither.

    source: http://www.jokes4us.com/religiousjokes/islamicjokes.html

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  143. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    “Arab does not mean Muslim”

    Yes ShawnLH :)

    And:

    Israel does not mean Jew.

    Zionist does not mean Jew.

    Rothschild does not mean Jew.

    IDF does not mean Jew.

    Semite does not mean Jew.

    So being critical of any of those groups is not anti-Jewish

    Isn’t learning fun ? :)

    Manolo, are you signaling it is time for some Jewish jokes ? tsk tsk you are sooo un-PC

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  144. Komata (1,198 comments) says:

    UT

    A minor point: ‘Islam’ was created (in a manner similar to the Ratana ‘church’ in New Zealand) by one Mohammed, an individual who verifiably born in 570 AD and died on 8 June 832 AD.

    Based on this fact, Judaism and Christianity pre-date Islam by 3,000 years (Judaism) and at least 500 years (Christianity).

    As Abraham pre-dates the ‘invention’ of Islam by at least 1,000 years, to declare him to be a Muslim is somewhat specious, and extremely tenuous.

    Re: ‘Muslim doesn’t mean people who call themselves Muslims’.

    FWIW: The word ‘Muslim’ is variously: ‘Someone who believes in Islam and lives according to its rules’, and ‘Relating to Islam or Muslims’ (1)

    In light of the dictionary reference I have just quoted, and IF ‘Muslim doesn’t mean people who call themselves Muslims’, what DO they call themselves (serious question BTW).

    __________________________________

    [n.a.], Collins Cobuild English Dictionary, (Glasgow: Harper Collins, 2006), s.v.muslim
    (1)

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  145. Manolo (14,044 comments) says:

    @Kea: Oh, yes.
    I’m critical of ALL religions, in particular of the vilest, the most backward-looking and violent of all: Islam.

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  146. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    1.Why don’t Jewish mothers drink? Alcohol interferes with their suffering.

    2.Have you seen the newest Jewish-American Princess horror movie? It’s called, “Debbie Does Dishes.”

    3.What’s a Jewish American Princess’ favorite position? Facing Tiffany’s.

    4.If Tarzan and Jane were Jewish, what would Cheetah be? A fur coat

    5.What do you get when you cross a matzo ball with LSD? A trip to Israel.

    6.There’s big controversy on the Jewish view of when life begins. In Jewish tradition, the fetus is not considered viable until after it graduates from medical school.

    7.Why do Jewish divorces cost so much? They’re worth it.

    8.A car hit a Jewish man. The paramedic says, “Are you comfortable?” The man says, “I make a good living.”

    9.Why do Jewish men die before their wives? They want to.

    10.Why do Jewish mothers make great parole officers? They never let anyone finish a sentence.

    Manolo, . I won’t bite because you are HONEST about your beliefs ;)

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  147. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    typo Komata.

    Mohamed died in 632 AD. Christianity pre-dates Islam by 600 years. Judaism as a religion was arguably started by Moses when he led to sons of Jacob – Israel – out of the land of Egypt. From memory, that was around 1200 BC – so Judaism pre-dates Islam by nearly 2000 years.

    Much of the Koran dictated by Mohamed is a plagiarisation of the Old Testament, with a bit of the New testament thrown in.

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  148. All_on_Red (1,644 comments) says:

    It’s all the Koch brothers fault.

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  149. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    ‘Islam’ was created (in a manner similar to the Ratana ‘church’ in New Zealand) by one Mohammed, an individual who verifiably born in 570 AD and died on 8 June 832 AD.

    That’s the secular interpretation. NZ, like most western countries, is corrupted by secular thought.
    The root meaning of Hebrew language (and related Aramaic) is innate, it is not defined by men.
    Mohammed was not the author of the Quran, he only wrote it down. The theistic interpretation is that the Quran was of divine origin, therefore the religion of the Quran did not originate with Mohammed. This is consistent with the Quran saying that Abraham was a Muslim.

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  150. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    UT.

    Mohamed dictated the Koran, and his wife wrote it down – Mohamed could not write.
    Part of the plagiarism was, that Mohamed claimed that the Angel Gabriel appeared to him and told him to write down what he (the angel) said. This is a plagiarism of angels in the OT appearing to Abraham and the NT with Angel Gabriel appearing to the virgin Mary.
    The problem is, that the Koran is so shot through with contradictions that it could not have divine origin.

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  151. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Much of the Koran dictated by Mohamed is a plagiarisation of the Old Testament

    The Quran wasn’t dictated by Mohammed.
    The similarites between the Quran and the Tanak are not the result of plagiarism because the prophetic nature of the Quran.

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  152. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Part of the plagiarism was, that Mohamed claimed that the Angel Gabriel appeared to him and told him to write down what he (the angel) said.

    That is not plagiarism. Plagiarism is copying someone else’s literary work and claiming it as your own.

    The problem is, that the Koran is so shot through with contradictions that it could not have divine origin.

    The contradictions are explained as abrogation.

    The same thing exists in Christianity with “eye for an eye” vs “turn the other cheek”.
    A real contradiction is the two fates of Judas in the Bible.

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  153. Ryan Sproull (7,279 comments) says:

    That’s the secular interpretation. NZ, like most western countries, is corrupted by secular thought.

    It’s the English-language definition. NZ, like most Western countries, uses the English language to define English-language words.

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  154. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    However, the legitimate line is through Isaac, who fathered Jacob who was named Israel by God.

    Sarah forcing Hagar to leave does not make Ishmael illegitimate. Both Ishmael and Isaac were heirs to the Abrahamic covenant.

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  155. Komata (1,198 comments) says:

    UT

    Thank you for your reply. In view of your evident vast expanse of knowledge about such things, I have to ask, are you a Muslim?

    Thanks.

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  156. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    It’s the English-language definition.

    Many English words are loan words which originated from other languages. The word “Islam” and “Muslim” originate from semitic language in the same way that the word sabbath originates from the Hebrew word shabat. The English “definition” is meaningless in light of the original meaning of the word, confusion of language is a feature of Babylon.

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  157. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    What a load of bollocks!

    Clearly you buggers have nothing to do & all day to do it in if you can spend half an hour worrying about what a pack of unwashed goat molesters did a couple of millenniums back. :)

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  158. mikenmild (11,702 comments) says:

    Whereas you may just have too much time on your hands, nasska. Haven’t you got some sheep to be worrying?

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  159. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    In the dark? Now that’s kinky & slightly underhand Mike. :)

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  160. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    The thread awaits Ugly’s answer with baited breath…

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  161. Komata (1,198 comments) says:

    UT

    Knowing that you will have read my not-unreasonable question prior to your reply at 1708, I thank you for your reply (or rather the lack there-of) to it. Your action is more informative than you may have wished it to be. No doubt others have also found it to be so . . .

    Again, thanks.

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  162. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Sheepies playing up nasska?
    Ive spent all day pulling fergy starters to pieces still can not get one to work and a replacement is 440 bucks so even keas squawking has been light relief today

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  163. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Shit nasska.

    You’ve been associating with johnboy too much – sheep in the dark, indeed – naughty naughty :-)

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  164. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    A very brave Malaysian:

    We can all breathe a huge sigh of relief now that President Obama’s visit to Malaysia has come and gone without a major diplomatic incident.

    Given the ferocity with which our religious authorities have been enforcing their interpretation of the law, I was becoming increasingly concerned that they would attempt to arrest Obama in order to charge him in a shariah court.

    Needless to say, this would have put Malaysia in the world’s headlines again for all the wrong reasons.

    “Absurd” I hear you say? Not at all. Here’s why.

    Obama’s biological father and step-father were both Muslims. In the eyes of the Malaysian religious authorities this would make him, despite what he himself may say or think, a Muslim.

    As numerous court cases in Malaysia have demonstrated, Islam in Malaysia is like the Hotel California: once you check in, there is no checking out.

    Given that Michelle Obama was raised as a Christian, if she were to have accompanied her husband to Malaysia this would have created some difficulties.

    Since Obama is a Muslim in the eyes of Malaysia’s religious authorities and Michelle has not converted to Islam, their marriage would not be recognised.

    Accordingly, if they were caught alone in a room together by a religious snoop squad they would be guilty of the offence of khalwat under Malaysian law, the penalty for which is either a jail term or a fine.

    Even non-Muslims are not spared such unwelcome intrusions, as fellow Americans Randal and Carol Barnhart discovered several years ago.

    Can you imagine JAKIM enforcement officers armed with a battering ram and camcorders bursting into the Obama’s hotel room?

    As one unfortunate Indonesian Catholic recently discovered, even a Muslim sounding name (hers is Halimah) is enough to get you hauled up before a shariah court.

    So having Michelle refer to him as ‘Barry’ for the duration of their trip would not have been enough for Obama to avoid the long arm of JAKIM.

    Thankfully for the Obamas, Michelle wisely opted out of this trip.

    Nevertheless, Michelle’s absence would still not have been enough to put Obama outside the clutches of our religious authorities.

    While Obama would be viewed as a Muslim in the eyes of our religious authorities, he is in fact a practising Christian, so we can expect him to dispute the notion that he is a Muslim.

    This would make him an unrepentant apostate as far as our authorities are concerned. What fate can an unrepentant apostate expect in Malaysia?

    If convicted of apostasy Obama would likely face the prospect of either (a) several years in jail like Kamariah Ali who had to serve back-to-back convictions for refusing to repent or (b) detention in an Islamic rehabilitation camp like Revathi Masoosai.

    Ultimately, he wouldn’t even be able to count on the highest court in Malaysia to affirm that he is a Christian as Lina Joy (a Malay) attempted this and failed. Lina Joy ended up leaving Malaysia.

    Yet, Obama escaped unscathed. The world’s most powerful apostate was on Malaysian soil and yet our religious authorities did absolutely nothing to apprehend him.

    It was a golden opportunity to demonstrate to the entire world the universality and strength of their brand of Islamic justice.

    And they did absolutely nothing.

    Where were the demonstrations by the self-appointed defenders of our faith? The likes of Isma and Perkasa? They were quieter than church mice.

    What about our illustrious Prime Minister? He was too busy taking selfies with the most famous murtad in the world.

    So yes, we can all breathe a huge sigh of relief since nothing untoward happened.

    There is a wider lesson we can draw from all this.

    Chiefly, it is that the raison d’être of our Islamic authorities, their reason for being, is premised on a lie.

    The examples I refer to above are people who, in various ways, were disenfranchised and voiceless.

    Our religious authorities promise us universal ‘Islamic justice’, which by definition must be applied without fear or favour – yet their ‘justice’ is only meted out on the weak and powerless.

    While the rich and powerful and the most corrupt roam free and sleep easy.

    Theirs is not a universal justice. It is a subjective one, applied in the service of their political masters.

    Now our politicians speak gleefully of introducing hudud law and amputations.

    Why should we expect these religiously inspired laws to be implemented and enforced any more fairly than the current ones?

    Because they carry the label ‘Islamic’, when in reality they are merely human (and thus fallible) interpretations of Quranic commandments and injunctions?

    Our religious authorities have unequivocally demonstrated that they practise double standards when it comes to enforcing the existing religious laws.

    If hudud is implemented we can all guess whose hands will be chopped off. It won’t be the hands of the rich and powerful.

    All citizens have the right to have a say about the public policy of their nation.

    The fact that religion is being used to formulate a segment of public policy should not be used as a reason to exclude a segment of the citizenry from having their say on those aspects of public policy.

    With this in mind, I would urge all my fellow Malaysians to not allow themselves to fall into the trap or be cowed into silence: be prepared to take a public stand against the implementation of hudud (which are not God’s laws but instead are men’s interpretations of God’s commandments) or be prepared to be judged by future generations of Malaysians over your failure to do so.

    What we need are not more religious laws, but fairer laws that are uniformly enforced. – May 14, 2014.

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  165. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    Sell the Masseys & buy something made in Japan & diesel powered Griff. $5K would probably get you a Kubota or Shibaura that would run at a quarter of the cost & last another twenty years.

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  166. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    We have a code of practise in the Wairarapa Don…..no sheep molesting half an hour after sunset through to dawn. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/s05u9ndqq9jii2f/Sheep_shaggers_online_weekly.jpg

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  167. David Garrett (7,533 comments) says:

    UT: (I just know I am going to regret this…) in your 4.43 you didnt question the excerpt you pasted in from someone earlier who said Mohammed was born in 570 AD and died in June 832…So ol’ Muhammed was 262 years old when he died?

    I am aware that Noah supposedly lived to be 800 or something…are those “earth years” as we know them, or some kind of Muslim/Early Christian version of “years” of a different length?

    BTW…are you a believer yourself, complete with beard and eye patch? (All the prominent Imams seem to have lost an eye somewhere along the way)

    Griff: Didnt realise you were a farmer…that must be very useful given your use of the Blessed Sacrament of the Rastas…

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  168. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Sell the Masseys & buy something made in Japan & diesel local village and solar/wind powered Griff. $5K $500k would probably get you a Kubota or Shibaura a pile of shit that would run at a quarter 100 x of the cost & last another twenty years. a week. :)

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  169. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    nasska.

    :lol:

    But what you can do is send out your dogs. I remember a time back in the 60’s that if a dog could not worry to death at least 40 ewes in one night, he was no bloody good.

    In our day and age, the dog would probably be shagging them – I’m sure you’ve trained your dogs well, nasska. ;-)

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  170. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Your action is more informative than you may have wished it to be.

    Not unless you know my reasons for not answering your question.

    Regarding the meaning of Muslim and Islam, the semitic root ShLM common to both these words is also found in YRWShLM (Jerusalem), meaning the teaching of peace. Also the first occurrence in the Bible of the related Hebrew word ShLWM is applied to Abraham, which agrees with the Quran’s description of Abraham as a “Muslim”.

    Although the semitic root ShLM is described as meaning peace, it can also mean the perfection of a contract or the cure for an obligation.

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  171. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    Don

    When you see dogs working sheep it could be described as controlled worrying.

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  172. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    UT: (I just know I am going to regret this…) in your 4.43 you didnt question the excerpt you pasted in from someone earlier who said Mohammed was born in 570 AD and died in June 832…So ol’ Muhammed was 262 years old when he died?

    Looks like a typo to me, the usual date is June 8, 632 CE

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  173. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Griff: Didnt realise you were a farmer

    David Garrett, yes he has a small hydroponic operation in his attic. The grow lights are fed by windmills, solar panels, and fairy dust :)

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  174. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Its not about a running tractor. I am stuck here with dad untill he dies and need a hobby, 3 tractors for 1000 bucks! I’ve been looking for a beach boat launcher for a while and these came up 1946 to 1957 the newest is a gold belly fe35 she will look amazing when I get her back to original color.
    It gives me something to do I haven’t restored a car for twenty years the last was a Oxford mo for a chick friend a frustrating piece of shit to put a wrench to at least with tractors you can get at every thing.

    http://vintagetractorengineer.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/fe35.jpg

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  175. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Led lights now squawk they don’t need windmills and solar panels no need to hide the consumption I just plug them into the mains like normal It’s only one hundred watts not like my old set up that was 2000 watts and needed more watts just for cooling than my total setup uses now.

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  176. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Do LED’s make the right sort of light ?

    If so, that is a major bonus. Lots of people used to get nicked because of the power thing.

    Google search… well fuck me :)

    http://www.ledgrowlights.co.nz/

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  177. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Message from New York. Its hilarious.

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  178. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    For the record, I’m quite happy to state that I am Catholic. I’m not ashamed of it, even though I am attacked for my beliefs from time to time.

    Kea has stated that she is an atheist, and I’ll believe that, though I do think she has some sort of Islamic background.

    I have asked Ugly what he believes before and he’s been most coy on the subject.

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  179. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    Sorry Lucia…..UT’s gone missing. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zf06e5r19pxjyat/UT%2010.jpg

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  180. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    For the record, I’m quite happy to state that I am Catholic.

    Lucy, and here was me thinking you were a Bhikkhuni ;)

    Ugly has transcended the earthly bounds of logic, reason and reality. He is unable to answer simple questions, like yours, in a way you would understand. Ugly is transcendent.

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  181. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Sorry Lucia…..UT’s gone missing

    nasska, I tried to warn him ! He said too much.

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  182. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    If only he’d have used two thickness’s of tinfoil like we suggested they wouldn’t have been able to read his thoughts Kea.

    Then he may have gotten away with it. :)

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  183. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Yeah, I just had to state it, to encourage Ugly to not be afraid. If a lowly woman and a Catholic to boot can be so fearless, then surely Ugly can do it too. Especially since he doesn’t seem to care that people think he is a tinfoil hat nutter, already.

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  184. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Lucy, have you checked out his web site ? Its awesome :)

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  185. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    Nasska,

    Very funny cartoon. How on earth do you find these things? Do you have them on standby for any and all occasions?

    Kea,

    A while back – don’t want to look again. Just like I check out Reid’s links every once in a while, and then wish I hadn’t.

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  186. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Lucy. Ugly’s site is a treasure chest of insanity and very well done. Its a credit to him. As a Catholic the iconography should appeal to you, in an unsettling way.

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  187. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Lucia.

    Just so you don’t feel like you’re on your own, I’m Catholic too – and proud to be so.

    So Ugly was, as nasska suggests, frightened away. :-)

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  188. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    Thanks, Don. There’s a few ex’s around as well, who also don’t mind saying so.

    Though, looking at Ugly’s site again (thanks Kea!), I would find it difficult to reconcile that site with Islamic belief. More like something very, very fringe.

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  189. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Lucy, you are imagining Muslims where there are none. Nothing I have seen Ugly contribute indicates he is Muslim. I have ZERO Muslim -anything- in my upbringing. (Even if I were a secret Muslim it is, by a country mile, the closest religion to your own.)

    The fact I will not join in the daily orgy of hate against one particular religion does not make me Muslim. In fact it makes me far far more likely to have a very different background to the one you have hallucinated :)

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  190. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I would find it difficult to reconcile that site with Islamic belief.

    Why is that?

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  191. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    What an interesting question, Ugly. I’ll tell you when you say what you are.

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  192. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Ugly, stop the cryptic shit and tell us straight: Is there an accepted -label- for your belief system ?

    Personally Lucy I think he is one of yours dear :)

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  193. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

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  194. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    Kea,

    Nope, doesn’t fit the profile. All that stuff about St Paul Christianity a few months back means nothing normal. I wouldn’t have though Islam at the time, because why would Muslims care about St Paul. But recently, the comments about Jesus not dying on the Cross – that’s Islam or some very fringe heretical group that’s made a comeback.

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  195. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Lucy, It is the Jews who reject the Jesus story. Not your Muslim friends.

    If you knew the bible as well as you claim, you would not be so keen on distorting what it says. That is a very naughty sin my dear lady !

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  196. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Twas the Jews that nailed him up at least 700 odd years before a Muslim could get the opportunity to blow him up after all! :)

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  197. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    Christians say that even though the Old Testament bans pork, they can still eat it because in the New Testament Jesus said that “what enters your body cannot make it impure”.

    That seems to cancel the Old Testament’s banning of homosexuality as well. :)

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  198. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    And in other news:

    “Chemicals in toothpaste and soap could be behind drop in male fertility.”

    No wonder the beneficiaries are outbreeding us 6 to 1. :)

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  199. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    I’m glad you cleared that up nasska. Last week I was busy with a ewe and suddenly I realised old Cecil was up me.

    Being old and short-sighted he thought I was the ewe. We all parted friends but I was concerned re: my mortal soul!

    No worries now! :)

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  200. SPC (5,772 comments) says:

    Ugly is simple to work out, he is a fellow theist, but finds Jews, Christians and Moslems to have fallen into error. And is of the opine that it is their errors that have divided them.

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  201. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    The missed photo opportunity JB….Monochrome portrait entitled “Spit Roast in Wainuiomata”. :)

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  202. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Johnboy.

    You’ve been a verry very naughty boy. :-)

    You seem to have convinced nasska that coitus with ewes is quite acceptable.

    Even his dogs know that’s not right.

    A lot to answer for brother Johnboy. :-)

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  203. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    No need to spit on my ewes nasska. I’ve bred them all to be wet! :)

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  204. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    ….”Even his dogs know that’s not right.”….

    Like this Don? :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lhhq0ix8egsbf9f/sheep-dog.jpg

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  205. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Fortunately I had applied Proctosedyl to my piles earlier or Cecil would have got a fucking bullet! :)

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  206. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    nasska -where do you get them from?

    No, don’t tell me – i don’t want to become as perverted as you. :-)

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  207. Yvette (2,845 comments) says:

    Alas, nasska, Jesus was talking with respect to the mouth, what came out or in and whether it was impure or not, which may have narrowered it down a bit for you … and Johnboy :-)

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  208. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Johnboy.

    Nothing worse than a proctocologist with arthritic fingers :-)

    Or webbed fingers, for that matter.

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  209. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    A farmer and his wife were lying in bed one evening; she was knitting, he was reading the latest issue of Farmer’s Weekly. He looks up from the page and says to her, ‘Did you know that humans are the only species in which the female achieves orgasm?’

    She looks at him wistfully, smiles, and replies, ‘Oh yeah? Prove it.’

    He frowns for a moment, then says, ‘Okay.’ He then gets up and walks out, leaving his wife with a confused look on her face.

    About a half an hour later, he returns all tired and sweaty and proclaims, ‘Well I’m sure the cow and sheep didn’t, but the way that pig’s always squealing, how can I tell?’

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  210. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Tell us more of your experiences in those areas Don. It won’t go any further! :)

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  211. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Je suis toujours intéressé par les choses que vous pouvez avec votre bouche Yvette

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  212. Don the Kiwi (1,794 comments) says:

    Don’t want to put you off an arguably erotic experience, Johnboy. :-)

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  213. ShawnLH (5,722 comments) says:

    “Christians say that even though the Old Testament bans pork, they can still eat it because in the New Testament Jesus said that “what enters your body cannot make it impure”.

    That seems to cancel the Old Testament’s banning of homosexuality as well.”

    Possibly, though the New Testament mentions homosexuality negatively as well.

    There is some debate about whether what we today mean by homosexuality is mentioned in any part of Scripture in the first place, and that what Scripture is actually talking about is the Pagan practice of Temple prostitution.

    There is a very funny scene in the mini series ‘Rome’ when one soldier directs another to the better (cleaner) prostitute district and remarks that it’s right next to the Venereal Temple. :)

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  214. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    Kea,

    I need to introduce you to Hilaire Belloc, who spells out the differences between Catholics and Muslims very well. However, realising that it might just be Too Much Reading, I can summarise very quickly: Islam has simplified the Christian story by removing the Incarnation. May seem like a small difference, but it’s not – it’s huge, because without the Incarnation, Christianity is totally gutted. Christ as a man cannot do what Christ the God-man can do.

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  215. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    “I need to introduce you to Hilaire Belloc”

    I’d rather introduce you all to Yvette Paris!

    https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=yvette+paris+burlesque&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=Lnp0U8n4Fsb1lAW10oCgBg&ved=0CDcQsAQ&biw=1512&bih=916

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  216. Yvette (2,845 comments) says:

    En effet, même si vous pourriez être surpris, Johnboy :-)

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  217. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    A guy walks a woman to the door after their first date. He asks her if she has had a good time. She tells him yes, but to get her really horny she likes her men to be rough, tough & selfish.

    The next week the guy picks her up for their evening out dressed in bikers black leathers. He grabs her throws her on the back of his newly rented Harley and away they go to the nearest bikers bar. The whole evening is spent drinking and brawling with the bikers.

    When they get back to her house, he drags her up to the bedroom. He asks her ‘Well, was I rough enough?’

    ‘Yes,’ she purrs and rubs herself suggestively.

    ‘And was I tough enough?’ he ventures.

    ‘Oh yes,’ she moans.

    ‘Well then its time to be selfish’, he says. So he jerks off.

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  218. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Je serai toujours très heureux d’être surpris par vous Yvette ! :)

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  219. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    ….”There is some debate about whether what we today mean by homosexuality”….

    Won’t be long until it is compulsory for all Anglicans Shawn. You’ll probably end up bent over a pew like a fence staple before long.

    Lubricant will be your friend. :)

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  220. SPC (5,772 comments) says:

    Lucia, incarnation, death on the cross and resurrection.

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  221. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Lanolin works for me nasska! :)

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  222. Lucia Maria (2,609 comments) says:

    SPC,

    Yeah, though the last two are dependent on the first. Without the Incarnation, the death of Jesus had no salvic power, and the resurrection just couldn’t have happened, therefore it’s denied. Only God could have split history the way Jesus did.

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  223. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    Mutton fat would do at a pinch JB. :)

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  224. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Three desperately ill men met with their doctor one day to discuss their options. One was an alcoholic, one was a chain smoker, and one was a homosexual. The doctor, addressing all three of them, said, ‘If any of you indulge in your vices one more time, you will surely die.’ The men left the doctor’s office, each convinced that he would never again indulge himself in his vice. While walking toward the subway for their return trip to the suburbs, they passed a bar. The alcoholic, hearing the loud music and seeing the lights, could not stop himself. His buddies accompanied him into the bar, where he had a shot of whiskey. No sooner had he replaced the shot glass on the bar, he fell off his stool, stone cold dead. His companions, somewhat shaken up, left the bar,realizing how seriously they must take the doctor’s words. As they walked along, they came upon a cigarette butt lying on the ground, still burning. The homosexual looked at the chain smoker and said, ‘If you bend over to pick that up, we’re both dead.’

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  225. SPC (5,772 comments) says:

    Lucia, the issue speaks to either a reality to events, or seeing them as signs to give confidence to faith in God (as to survival of mortal life).

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  226. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    I had a schoolyard girlfriend we used to call Mutton once nasska. Even I wasn’t brave enough to fuck her! :)

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  227. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    Must have been bad JB…..always figured you’d be up a sick dog on a chain. :)

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  228. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    At the end of the workday, one cowboy tells another, ‘That new bull nearly did me in today, partner.’

    ‘Oh yeah, what happened?’

    ‘I was putting out the feed, when the sucker came charging at me like a locomotive from hell. He damn near got me!’

    ‘So, how’d you get away?’

    ‘Well the bull kept slipping. He slipped three times, and that gave me a chance to make it to the fence and jump over.’

    ‘Man, that’s scary. If it’d been me, I would probably have shit all over the place.’

    ‘What do you think the bull was slipping on?’

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  229. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    She was called Susan Stade and I was only six. I was a tad advanced for my years! :)

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  230. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Why did you change your name griffith?

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  231. mikenmild (11,702 comments) says:

    You bored tonight, Johnboy?

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  232. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Cheer me up then milkey :)

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  233. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    There’s fuckall on TV! :)

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  234. mikenmild (11,702 comments) says:

    Wainui will lose again this weekend!

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  235. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    And Rosinah’s said I’m powerless? :)

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  236. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    Who the fuck are we playing?

    Did you say hello? :)

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  237. mikenmild (11,702 comments) says:

    Wainui to lose to Jville. HOB to triumph over Norths.

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  238. Johnboy (16,994 comments) says:

    HOB will beat the Machete Wielders if you take enough shotguns.

    Jville will have a bad hair day I predict! :)

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  239. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    Islam Judaism has simplified the Christian story by removing the Incarnation. May seem like a small difference, but it’s not – it’s huge, because without the Incarnation, Christianity is totally gutted. Christ as a man cannot do what Christ the God-man can do.

    Lucy, in reality Muslims have just cut out all this New Testament nonsense, which basically says god stuffed up the first time and sent his son to sort the mess out.

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  240. ShawnLH (5,722 comments) says:

    “Lucy, in reality”

    When Kea says “in reality” it’s a cue that Kea’s fantasies are not far behind. :)

    “which basically says god stuffed up the first time and sent his son to sort the mess out.”

    Oh dear. :) This is right up there with Muslims being in the Bible!! :)

    Give it up Kea, you just keep making yourself look daft! :)

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  241. ShawnLH (5,722 comments) says:

    Meanwhile, in the real world, score one for cats! :)

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  242. Kea (13,359 comments) says:

    ShawnLH, where did I say Muslims are in the bible ?

    And what have you done with Ugly ? He was just about to tell us the name of his faith :)

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  243. RF (1,448 comments) says:

    Med school lecturer was taking a class of Medical Students. The topic was how your body nerve endings respond to erotic stimuli. One particularly attractive med student was not listening so the lecturer asked her a question. Do you know what your arse hole is doing when you are having an orgasim.

    She replied. Playing golf with his mates.

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  244. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    I can summarise very quickly: Islam has simplified the Christian story by removing the Incarnation. May seem like a small difference, but it’s not – it’s huge, because without the Incarnation, Christianity is totally gutted. Christ as a man cannot do what Christ the God-man can do.

    What Islam does is to repeat the idea of the Judaic shema, the unity of YHWH as Allah. Naturally the nature of Elohim (aka “God”) falls outside of this view of monotheism. But Islam doesn’t negate the idea of Elohim, since frequently there is a reference to a plurality of divine beings.

    Put another way, Islam doesn’t deny the ability of man to transcend, but it also doesn’t dwell on it because that it not its focus.

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  245. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (2,506 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 9:37 pm

    Meanwhile, in the real world, score one for cats! :)

    Meh

    Lucia Maria (2,085 comments) says:
    May 15th, 2014 at 11:01 am

    No scaredy cats here! Video shows dramatic moment Tara the fearless feline saves autistic boy, 4, from attack by neighbor’s dog:

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  246. SPC (5,772 comments) says:

    A Jew who becomes a Christian or Moslem is no longer a Jew.

    A woman, raised by her Christian mother as a Christian, marries a Christian man, then is found guilty of apostasy and adultery for marrying a non Moslem (her father absent in her life after birth is a Moslem), and is sentenced to death.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-27424064

    The problem inherent in theism is that with power in the state it kills people.

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  247. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    brilliant

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  248. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    Then he may have gotten away with it

    As you picked up someone else for using the Americanism ‘asshole’ I spot the very suspiciously American use of ‘gotten’. hmmmm

    I’ve noticed quite a few kiwis use ‘gotten’ – and I want to know if that came over with certain UK regional dialects or not.

    I suppose it’s never forgotten in ‘forgotten’.

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  249. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    Family split by immigration ruling

    Shameless misleading click-driven tabloid headline of a non-story (unless it’s enjoyable to see yet more fobs trying it on skirting around immigration laws with a media appeal).

    Oh well – you get what you pay for. Gutter press.

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  250. Left Right and Centre (2,994 comments) says:

    And talking of fobs – some of them were on ‘Campbell Saves Earth’ wanting to be doctors in NZ. With overseas qualifications – trying to jump through the hoops to qualify in NZ.

    Part of the process is an ‘acceptable standard of English’. Right there – they all fail miserably.

    One lady was from Venezuela. ‘But I am kiwi, yeah ? I feel it to be so – I feel very much like kiwi, this is not being fair for me’. Ok – you got me – those aren’t the exact words.

    There’s a difference between putting two feet on this land, hanging around like a bad smell then handed a bit of paper . . . and discharging your fob status. I was thinking ‘fuck yeah, you’re kiwi alright – because you sure sound anything like one’ (there’s ‘NZ citizens’ that don’t speak English or are otherwise unintelligible. Excuse me while I bond deeply with them).

    I’ve met these types a few times. They think their standard of English is highly polished and sophisticated; how they can ever hope to be doctors in New Zealand when they fail to comprehend that a self-checkout has got more chance of passing the English requirement.

    BTW – are they not allowed to become nurses either ? Is that beneath them as a way of working in a related job or something ? And again – have they tried that – if so – why couldn’t they get a job as a nurse ?

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  251. nasska (11,797 comments) says:

    ….”Then he may have gotten away with it”….

    Fair call LR&C. When I initially typed the sentence I used “got” & changed it to “gotten” when I reread it.

    I’m a victim of common usage & American culture shoves their spelling & grammar down our throats.

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