The need for discipline

May 5th, 2014 at 12:59 pm by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

Ms Collins publicly apologised to television reporter last night after attacking her on Twitter and telling a rival channel Bradford had inappropriately approached her when she was Police Minister.

Mr Key, while clearly unimpressed with Ms Collins’ attacks on the journalist, expressed confidence in her when asked if he had unequivocal confidence in her.

He again stated he had confidence in her this morning, and told Radio New Zealand Ms Collins had felt under pressure over the Oravida affair and the media’s scrutiny of former Cabinet colleague Maurice Williamson’s involvement with Chinese businessman Donghua Liu.

“She’s close to Maurice, and Maurice has clearly also been under a fair bit of pressure, and I think she’s felt a bit for her friend.

Fair enough.”

But Mr Key said Ms Collins had “over-reached”.

There’s quite a lot of emotions riding high at the moment, which is understandable. But discipline needs to come first. The Government has a great record to run on, and most of the fundamentals are strong. But as Bill English pointed out, you can lose on 47%.

A spokeswoman for Ms Collins said she had acknowledged she shouldn’t have brought Katie Bradford into the discussion.

“She’s apologised publicly and is hoping to talk to Katie shortly. Going forward, anything else she has to say on the matter will be with Katie herself which is the most appropriate thing to do.” …

The Budget is next week. Obviously issues around Maurice and Judith will be the focus in Parliament this week. The challenge for National is to not drag them out longer than necessary, so next week is about economic management.

 

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182 Responses to “The need for discipline”

  1. queenstfarmer (782 comments) says:

    Judith Collins should resign as a Minister. She has lost the plot completely and guaranteed that her self-inflicted scandal(s) will detract from what should have been a home-run on the economy.

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  2. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    She needs to resign today. Otherwise the opposition will feed on her carcass tomorrow.

    Does National want to remain in government, or does it want to kowtow to a single person?

    Again, why is Collins so special? Were it anyone else, she would be gone a la Williamson and Smith.

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  3. Nukuleka (402 comments) says:

    Williamson alienated me with his vicious anti- Catholic rant in favour of same sex ‘marriage’- and his latest blunder has hurt National’s standing and electoral chances. Judith Collins should similarly learn to shut her mouth and show a bit of common sense and dignity. I have huge sympathy for John Key in having to rein in such big mouthed egoists. The country has too much to lose in the coming months unless there is tighter discipline and more loyalty from all National MPs.

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  4. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    ‘The country has too much to lose in the coming months’
    The National Party has too much to lose; the country, not so much.

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  5. Nukuleka (402 comments) says:

    The problem with her resigning is that it will just give opposition parties further ammunition to talk of a government whose wheels are falling off. John Key has a dilema on his hands.

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  6. Pete George (23,804 comments) says:

    It’s gonna take quite a bit more than discipline now. A lot of repairing to do, and that won’t be easy.

    The state of our major parties is very concerning.

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  7. RRM (10,099 comments) says:

    Another month, another story about Collins J going large. I wonder if it’s the rags?

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  8. Pongo (374 comments) says:

    Judith Collins has done a very good job as Minister and will continue to be a good Minister but she has been put under huge unrelenting pressure for 8 weeks over a private dinner and she decided to have a slap back at the appalling mess that is the press gallery, pack of total morons who suffer the worst group think…Stockholm syndrome.
    As long as she carries on as an effective Minister I don’t care if she has dinner with an axe murderer, its private. I also don’t care that Cunliffe has dinner with Helen Kelly who will be writing his employment policy, I don’t care that Norman dines with Bunny Mcdermaid and Winnie you have got a cheek considering your ties to fish and bloodstock.

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  9. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (900 comments) says:

    This is exactly my point. The commies and the socialists have nothing else to attack the government on. Every single economic parameter is on the right track and I understand the unemployment figures due out today will show less than 6% which is a great result. So the opposition has nothing else to do. John Key should get rid of this sideshow away as quick as possible and get the people focussed on the budget. The budget will show a surplus and that will be great economic record.

    I have a feeling after achieving so much, John Key is bit relaxed and taken his eyes of the ball……Labour commies know very well that the only way they can win this election is to somehow discredit John Key.

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  10. thePeoplesFlag (283 comments) says:

    You can have all the discipline in the world but that won’t save Collin’s from the latest damning revelations about her corrupt practices in relation to Oravida.

    She is a gone burger.

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  11. Cunningham (846 comments) says:

    I have seen Judith speak and met her once or twice. She is a nice lady and a great speaker. She comes across as tough but she does (despite how she is portrayed) have a compassionate side. However she has handled this issue so badly right from the start. Whether you think she has been handled unfairly by the media (which I do to an extent) that is politics and her job is to handle these situations with good judgement (saldy lacking). As much as I hate to say it, I think she should resign from her portfolios for the good of the party.

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  12. Ashley Schaeffer (535 comments) says:

    It’s just frustratingly dumb stuff from Collins and she definitely needs to take a break away from the internet for a while.

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  13. Manolo (14,169 comments) says:

    Whatever it takes for NZ, our country, to avoid a socialist Labour, communists Green and Mana coalition of hell.

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  14. wreck1080 (3,999 comments) says:

    Collins was a babe when she was younger so will give her a break :)

    http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2014/04/post-day-judith-collins/

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  15. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    ‘I have a feeling after achieving so much, John Key is bit relaxed’
    Quite some assumptions going on there…

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  16. hj (7,166 comments) says:

    The Government has a great record to run on, and most of the fundamentals are strong.
    ….
    so no fire economy (Finance, Insurance, Realestate)

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  17. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    The problem with her resigning is that it will just give opposition parties further ammunition to talk of a government whose wheels are falling off.

    Um, because the wheels are falling off?

    If you have a flat tire, change it.

    Rob Salmond just posted the smoking gun. Collins is fucked.

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  18. muggins (3,828 comments) says:

    I am what you could call a swinging voter in that I don’t make up my mind up as to what party to vote for until just before the election but from what I have read all this looks like a media beat-up to me. I mean who really cares about that dinner and who really cares about what Katie Bradford said.
    But I would have to say that Judith Collins would be wise to stop twittering for the next few weeks ,in my ‘umble opinion.

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  19. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Collins was a babe when she was younger so will give her a break

    So you like girls who order you to lube up?

    NTTAWWT

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  20. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Sadly, unless Collins takes stress leave immediately, John Key is going to be the one who sustains the damage from her ‘loss of judgement’.

    He has to balance appeasing the electorate, with keeping the loyalty of his other ministers. His inaction will bring accusations of pampering to Collins excesses, whilst too harsher action will see some in the party question his leadership.

    Collins is a Minister – and a senior politician. She is expected to act in a manner that is fitting to her position REGARDLESS of what is thrown at her. She is meant to have the ability to recognise her own stress levels, and take whatever private measures she can to remedy them, including taking stress leave if required.

    To publicly reveal the details of a conversation with a member of the electorate in a matter that was never relevant or in the public’s best interest to know, is unacceptable.

    If any government employee was approached under the same circumstances and released the contents of such a private conversation to the media in the manner Ms Collins did, they would lose their job, immediately. Where is the example, or are there two sets of standards?

    The only way to minimise the damage from this is for Collins to step down – prevent damage to the PM, and possibly the media and the opposition might even be seen as the ‘bullies’ – but if she continues with her unchecked arrogance – then who knows what could happen.

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  21. muggins (3,828 comments) says:

    I accept this is a rubbish poll but note where journalists rate.

    http://www.readersdigest.co.nz/most-trusted-professions-2013

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  22. muggins (3,828 comments) says:

    Who cares what you think, Judith?

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  23. trout (955 comments) says:

    The surprising aspect of this affair is how gullible politicians are when it comes to the ethics of wealthy Chinese business men. These guys are rich because they knew how to work the system in China, a system that is fundamentally corrupt. They do not leave their ethics at home when they come to NZ; they expect favorable treatment when they cozy up to cabinet ministers and distribute largess by way of donations. Does Judith Collins really believe her husband is a director of a Chinese Company because of his business acumen?; does John Key really believe a Chinese business owner seeks a golf game with him to enjoy his repartee, does Maurice Williamson really believe that the purchase of a batch next door to his from his friend does not require some form of payback to the purchaser?. Perhaps it is the ongoing need for political parties to raise funds for election campaigns that leads to reckless decision making rather than for personal gain.

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  24. altiora (279 comments) says:

    Well this Nat is tired and sick of Collins.

    At one stage I thought she was our “Iron Lady”, but now I think she’s just unpleasant and nasty.

    I wonder if Key and Joyce are letting this draw on as a calculated gamble to let Collin’s leadership aspirations bleed bit by bit, and sack her when they feel her popularity has become sufficiently emaciated that she won’t be able to foment discord from the backbenches.

    If I am correct in this conjecture, I do wish they would get it over and done with now, especially after Rob Salmond has uncovered.

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  25. Ashley Schaeffer (535 comments) says:

    Rob Salmond just posted the smoking gun. Collins is fucked.

    Personally, I don’t think that contravening the Cabinet Manual is, in itself, a hanging offence (it is only a guide after all). However, if Collins has been telling porkies in Parliament in an attempt to cover up her contravening the Cabinet Manual then she should resign.

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  26. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    She should resign.

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  27. SGA (1,256 comments) says:

    trout at 2:11 pm

    The surprising aspect of this affair is how gullible politicians are when it comes to the ethics of wealthy Chinese business men.

    One sincerely hopes it is just gullibility.

    Ashley Schaeffer at 2:17 pm

    Personally, I don’t think that contravening the Cabinet Manual is, in itself, a hanging offence (it is only a guide after all).

    Well… those guidelines are there for a reason.

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  28. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    What has Rob Salmond (whoever he is) revealed??

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  29. SGA (1,256 comments) says:

    I think this is what is being referred to, David, but like you I’d never heard of him before –
    http://polity.co.nz/content/even-more-new-damning-evidence-collins

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  30. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    SGA: Thank you…Someone who knows what they are talking about correct me..Collins is the Minister of Justice, not the Minister of Overseas Trade..Does that change things? It certainly does appear that the visit to Oravida was arranged by MFAT and was in that sense “official”…I agree with those who say this is clearly not a “pop in on the way to the airport”…Has she actrually characterised the visit thus in the House?

    I will nail my colours to the mast…I sincrely hope Collins does not have to resign…she has done some excellent things in both the Police and the Justice portfolios, and was a delight to work with after the duplicitous FIGJAM Power…It was her straight shooting that led to 3S being passed so quickly after Key took it off FIGJAM and gave it to her..She will be a serious loss to this government if she has to go…

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  31. Ashley Schaeffer (535 comments) says:

    Well… those guidelines are there for a reason.

    Yes, to avoid the mess that Collins now finds herself in. But we are still talking guidelines and not the law. In this instance the guidelines are there to avoid creating the perception of corruption. Contravening this guideline doesn’t prove that corruption has actually taken place. I’m a tad more concerned that Collins may have lied in Parliament about the details of her trip to China, than I am about the implications of corruption resulting from her visit to Oravida.

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  32. UrbanNeocolonialist (315 comments) says:

    There is no way that Collins should resign, doing so would reward the left for probably the most ridiculous media beat up that I can ever remember in NZ politics.

    It would validate this assassination process they are experimenting with as well as producing a quotable precedent for these shills to utilise in future.

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  33. alex Masterley (1,535 comments) says:

    DG
    Salmond is a Labor party activist and gofer.
    He was the person running around getting the domain names for Kiwiassure shortly before that policy was announced.

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  34. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Salmond is roughly to Labour what DPF is to National. By no means an impartial commentator, but what he has got through the OIA is certainly interesting.
    Has Collins actually misled the House? I’m not sure.

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  35. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    Alex: thank you…From my limited knowledge of the rules, whether this latest bit of information is of any significance hinges on what she has told Parliament about the visit…I certainly don’t trust some Labour apparatchik to quote accurately…He does seem to know a lot about how to benefit from inside information though…

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  36. Longknives (4,956 comments) says:

    Judith Collins is one of the few politicians who I admire and support 100%.
    I’m kind of curious/suspicious about an activist like Katie Bradford trying to sniff round the Police- I think Judith had a bloody good point when you look at the big picture…

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  37. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    Can someone please tell me:

    Did the repeater approach the minister for a special favour or not ?

    So far this looks like a media beat up to protect one of their own. If the repeater did this she should be fired and the minister congratulated and given a pay rise for her integrity. If the gutter press did not do this, then the minister should be fired for lying.

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  38. jaba (2,146 comments) says:

    question .. when our press gallery report incorrect details OR if their opinions are proven to be wrong, do they say ssssorry to the person or party they refered to?

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  39. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Kea
    I think the story was Bradford asked the Minister about her then husband wanting to join the Police. Exactly what she asked was not made clear. Collins commented that this felt odd and wrong. She has since apologised.

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  40. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (4,068 comments) says:
    May 5th, 2014 at 3:08 pm

    Are you sure Katie Bradford is an activist? You aren’t judging the child by its mother’s sins, are you?

    @ Kea,

    Ms Collins has stated that there was no favour asked for. That was confirmed by Katie Bradford.
    The message is clear from both sides, there was no request for a favour.

    A media beat up – yes to a certain extent, however there are wider implications – an MP, regardless of party etc should not be revealing such conversations to the media unless there is a need for the public to know – in this case there wasn’t. The public should feel confident in being able to approach an parliamentary representative with such issues and expect privacy on matters like this.

    I think the media are dogs, but I can see the wider implications of such a move by Collins – not to mention the dangers of any member of parliament acting up due to stress.

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  41. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    jaba
    You could take that up with the Press Council…

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  42. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Duncan Garner – “Judith Collins: Unhinged and Out of Control”

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/Duncan-Garner-Judith-Collins-unhinged-and-out-of-control/tabid/674/articleID/44631/Default.aspx#.U2cAl9SupWQ.twitter

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  43. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    milky, so we are expected to believe that Collins just made the story up in a random act of quirkyness ?

    I suspect the apology is to keep the peace with the media heading towards an election. The one think I do not see being discussed here is the truth.

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  44. altiora (279 comments) says:

    Lest one miss the obvious point David G, we’re in an election year. This distraction is not needed. If Collins has breached the Cabinet Manual, then this is enough excuse to be rid of her as it was for Williamson. People should stop trying to shift the goal posts by saying that she should be sacked only if she lied to Parliament.

    Lament long and hard about this “beat up” all you want, it doesn’t disguise the fact that the Collins’ matter is a weeping sore that is drowning out the good economic news and feeding the “Crony capitalism” meme developed by Labour (even more so following Williamson’s silly mistake). I don’t think Collins is so marvelous as to risk National’s victory. If she had a popular following among swinging, centrist voters then perhaps this would be a battle worth fighting. But she doesn’t.

    In the longer term, could all politicians steer clear of hobnobbing with wealthy and/or politically connected Chinese nationals for the reasons very eloquently stated by Trout above.

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  45. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    No one thinks Collins made the story up. She has apologised for casting an unwarranted slur on Bradford’s reputation. If she thought what she had done was right, why on Earth would she apologise?

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  46. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    No one thinks Collins made the story up. She has apologised for casting an unwarranted slur on Bradford’s reputation.

    milky, have a wee think about what you just wrote. Spot the glaring contridiction ?

    “NO ONE thinks” she made it up. So in fact the reporter DID approach a minister inappropriately. We do not always agree but I am surprised to see you defending possible corruption. Which is what this is. Collins appology to appease the media is a further wrong.

    Trust me, this sort of shit is common place. One law for the connected and another for the rest.

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  47. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    How was what Bradford did inappropriate? And if it was inappropriate, why has Collins apologised?

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  48. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Alex: thank you…From my limited knowledge of the rules, whether this latest bit of information is of any significance hinges on what she has told Parliament about the visit

    Collins said that the visit to Oravida was an unplanned drop in. Official documents now show that it was not. Ergo Collins lied.

    If that’s in Hansard, she lied to parliament.

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  49. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    Tom J: Garner is suggesting Collins has “something on” Key which is why she is still there…I thought he (Garner) was better than that…the kind of shit you would get from potato head Gower…

    altiora: Good points…What is happening is certainly not helpful to the Minister or the Government…

    I assume “Rob Salmond” is not the guy’s real name? Using pseuds is compulsory for the filthy socialists isnt it??

    Tom J : Do we know exactly what she said in the House about the visit to Oravida or are we relying on some socialist stooge??

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  50. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    The OIA dump showing that it was a preplanned official visit appears to contradict what she said in the house here.

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/business/qoa/50HansQ_20140318_00000003/3-justice-minister%E2%80%94statements

    If lying to the house isn’t a resignation offence then I don’t know what is.

    Key’s problem of course is that losing one minister in a week is bad, two appears careless, esp when the common theme of money can be drawn between them.

    It’s a tricky one for JK.

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  51. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    But has Collins said that, exactly? I can’t find that she has in Parliament.

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  52. Tauhei Notts (1,687 comments) says:

    Rob Salmond has his mouth on the Labour Party tit, and is loving it.
    But rather than comment on his background we must study the facts that he has presented. And whether or not Salmond is a prick has nothing whatsoever to do with the facts.
    The facts presented by Salmond are damning in the extreme.
    Judith Collins should adopt her husband’s surname. She has spoken with a wong tongue. She has to go.
    And I am no Labour Party shirt lifter; my politics are to the right of Ghenghis Khan.

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  53. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild (9,028 comments) says:
    May 5th, 2014 at 3:32 pm

    It wasn’t inappropriate. I’m sure even Mr Garret will confirm that members of the electorate can and do approach MP’s for a variety of reasons, and for advice. Katie, whether a journalist or not, has as much right as anyone else to ask an MP a question. She also has the right to expect privacy in the matter when it is not of national importance.

    If there was anything unacceptable about it – then why are we just hearing about it now, four years later, and why has Collins stated clearly it was not a request for a favour?

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  54. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    “I was being driven around and I was assured by the ambassador that we could pop into Oravida on the way to the airport, or else I could have gone to the airport and I could have sat in the lounge for an extra long time.”

    It’s quite clear here, she says “could pop in” on the way to the airport. The reality is that it was a preplanned official ministerial meeting with the aim of “To increase the profile of a successful importer and distributor of New Zealand products into China”.

    Now, you may argue that it’s a noble aim, and I’d agree with you if her husband wasn’t a director of said business, but you simply can’t reconcile what she said in the house to the pre-existing agenda and its contents.

    She’s done.

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  55. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    Tauhei: More good points…but if it is as obvious as all that, where is the press conference called by Silent T to present to the press what “Rob Salmond” has unconvered, and waving the Hansard where she says it was an unplanned drop in? Why wait until Question Time tommorro?? Anything can happen at Question Time…surely he’d want the undivided attention now??

    Alan: Where are the words “I was being driven around…” in your post from? Hansard??

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  56. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Tom J : Do we know exactly what she said about the visit to Oravida or are we relying on some socialist stooge??

    March 4: Collins quoted as saying it was nothing more than “a cup of tea on the way to the airport”

    http://www.3news.co.nz/Collins-says-Oravida-visit-not-conflict-of-interest/tabid/1607/articleID/334569/Default.aspx

    March 5: Key fobs off criticism by saying it was a drop in visit.

    Prime Minister John Key said he did not believe Ms Collins’ husband’s directorship of Oravida created a conflict of interest.

    “It doesn’t preclude her dropping in. There is no commercial value there.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11213906

    March 10: Collins claims that it was just a drop in. We now know it was an official visit. The documents are plain about that.

    Early last week, Ms Collins described the visit to Oravida in Shanghai as “a cup of tea on the way to the airport” and as a “20 minute cup of tea, with milk”.

    However, Mr Robertson said the written invitation showed the visit was “a well-organised publicity stunt and photo op, yet Judith Collins has spent the week trying to minimise and diminish it as a casual glass of milk”.

    The invitation was a letter from Oravida’s chairman, Stone Shi. It referred to her pending trip to China and said Oravida would be “honoured for you to visit us in Shanghai on the 23rd October to witness our development, and our commitment to branding and building a reputation for New Zealand products”.

    Ms Collins’ office released the documents, originally requested by NZ First, to the Herald last week.

    A spokeswoman for the minister said the written invitation followed up on an oral one extended to Ms Collins while she was at the opening of Oravida’s new offices in Auckland. It was sent a few days later to ensure Ms Collins’ staff had a record of it.

    The spokeswoman said it was made clear that the minister could drop in only if she had a gap in her schedule. She had found the time to do so while on her way to the airport.

    The documents released under the Official Information Act also show Ms Collins did not mention the Oravida visit in her report back to the Cabinet on the trip, despite mentioning similar visits to companies with New Zealand links in her report on an earlier trip to China in June 2012.

    Ms Collins’ spokeswoman said that was because it was a quick visit, and the minister had also not mentioned visiting a NZ coffee shop, Flat White, in China on the same trip.

    The Prime Minister’s office is refusing to release Cabinet Office advice that PM John Key says has cleared her of any breach of Cabinet rules.

    Ms Collins has said it would not stop her returning to visit Oravida and it was “ridiculous” to suggest she avoid a company simply because a family member was connected to it.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11216800

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  57. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kea (11,033 comments) says:
    May 5th, 2014 at 3:31 pm

    The ‘reporter’ did not approach the minister inappropriately. According to Collins, and confirmed by Bradford the two were having a personal conversation and Bradford raised the issue of her partner wanting to join the police. That is perfectly understandable given the fact that Collins husband was a police officer, plus Collins was the Minister of Police.

    Women do this sort of thing all the time – they seek counsel in older, wiser women to get advice on such situations. There is NOTHING unusual about the conversation. Those sorts of conversations happen regularly – I remember having a conversation with Tariana Turia about childbirth, at a special dinner held concerning something completely different. I would be really peeved if she made a public statement about what we discussed in that!!

    Collins was being opportunist and trying to defend her fallen friend. It was a hit back, done in stress, a knee jerk reaction that demonstrates at this point in time she is not up to the job. She doesn’t need to and shouldn’t resign, but she should take a break – if she doesn’t her arrogance will drag not just her, but the whole party down. There is no other solution that will keep Key unharmed.

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  58. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    How was what Bradford did inappropriate? And if it was inappropriate, why has Collins apologised?

    1. Using your position as a reporter to garner favour is highly inappropriate.

    2. Dunno…. but could it be to appease the gutter press approaching an election ?

    milky, just have a wee think about what you are defending.

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  59. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Amd here’s where she fucks herself

    http://www.parliament.nz/en-nz/pb/business/qoa/50HansQ_20140318_00000003/3-justice-minister%E2%80%94statements

    The just released documents show it was a planned visit.

    Judith Collins misled parliament.

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  60. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    It has not been shown that Bradford used her position to garner favour. In fact, Collins explicitly said that Bradford did not.

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  61. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Tom
    Agreed. She lied to the House. Resignation should be inevitable.

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  62. wikiriwhis business (4,200 comments) says:

    rock star economy…should be best budget in decades for an election year

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  63. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    @ DG “Alan: Where are the words “I was being driven around…” in your post from? Hansard??”

    Yes, from Hansard, I linked to the official record up thread.

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  64. Tauhei Notts (1,687 comments) says:

    Judith,
    Are you John Key’s advisor?
    Breaking news just you suggested.

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  65. muggins (3,828 comments) says:

    Gor blimey. It looks like one Judith has taken another Judith’s advice.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10010739/Judith-Collins-to-take-a-few-days-off

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  66. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    milky, stop being so dense. You already said the gutter press repeater did approach the minister. You seem to think that is all ok now because the minister apologised for revealing what the repeater did.

    The wrong that was done was not the revelation. It was the approach by the repeater to garner favour. A further wrong is apologising leading up to an election. Maybe her manner of revealing it did not follow protocol, but that does not excuse a reporter trying to influence a minister.

    This is a bullshit smoke screen thrown up by the media to protect one of their own. They are holding National to ransom and that is why Collins apologised.

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  67. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    You have not shown that the reporter asked the minister for any favour. In fact, the minister has confirmed that this did not happen. You’re wrong (it’s your speciality) and you should accept it; although I doubt you will.

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  68. Fentex (1,136 comments) says:

    Judith Collins should resign as a Minister. She has lost the plot completely

    Collins should resign, but not because she lost her temper. Speaking intemperately can happen and be forgiven, though there’s a lot problematic about her attack on Bradford it’s forgiveable.

    But not her lying to parliament and New Zealand. It appears there’s documented proof that Collins lied to parliament and the people of New Zealand when she claimed to visit Oravida spontaneously and just for a chat.

    All Members Of Parliament, and Ministers in particular, should not be permitted to dodge accountability by lying without consequence.

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  69. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    Alan:Yes, thanks, I see the verbatim from Hansard…I am glad for her sake that she is going to take a few days off…She can expect a torrid time of it in the House tommorro…and I fear the scum will still be on the attack when she returns…Time for Key to fish something out of the Black Book on the filthy socialists…

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  70. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Key has said she will be in Parliament answering questions, then will have a few days off…

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  71. Rob at Polity (8 comments) says:

    @David Garrett: I am the “Rob Salmond” you have been discussing, and my real name is also Rob Salmond. I realise this might be a difficult concept for you to grasp, given your history as an identity thief.

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  72. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ tauhei notts

    No, believe me, if I was – National would be on 60% not teetering on 47% :-)

    All joking aside, this was the only possible conclusion that would allow all parties to retain some dignity. Collins had to admit she was needing a break – forcing Key to act would have been detrimental to the party and his future relationship with MP’s.

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  73. Longknives (4,956 comments) says:

    “I realise this might be a difficult concept for you to grasp, given your history as an identity thief.”

    We have a winner! Asshole of the week….

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  74. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    Yes, thanks very much Rob, I had gathered that you were that rarest of souls, a leftie who blogs under his own name (I occaisonally visit the cesspit that is The Standard, where to even speculate on who is behind the pseuds is a banning offence)

    And thanks also for acting true to type, reminding me of my insensitive foolishness 30 years ago this year….what were you doing in 1984? Or were you just a pinkish glimmer in some crop haired activist’s eye?

    What’s Darren doing these days? Can we expect him on Labour’s list come September?

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  75. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (5,233 comments) says:
    May 5th, 2014 at 5:08 pm

    David, do you seriously think that if Collins was a Labour MP, under the same circumstances that National would not be employing the same tactics if they suspected they had something to crow about?

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  76. Rob at Polity (8 comments) says:

    @Longknives: A prize? For me? On Kiwiblog? How very thoughtful of you.

    @David Garrett: You are most welcome. I have checked into my personal history as you asked. As 5 May 1984 was a Saturday, 30 years ago today I was representing a Karori Swifts U-10 soccer team, most likely against the evil Onslow.

    Two things I certainly wasn’t doing 30 years ago were (1) engaging in identity theft; or (2) engaging in rank hypocrisy by being an identity thief who complains about hiding behind pseudonyms. Have a lovely evening.

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  77. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    Judith: Yes, sadly, I dont think the behaviour would be much different if the tables were turned…It’s a nasty filthy business at the end of the day…You need to have the fortitude of Redbaiter to survive…except he never actually tried it!

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  78. muggins (3,828 comments) says:

    So Rob at Polity is Rob Salmond, a person I had never heard of until today.
    Let me tell you something Rob. To bring up something that David Garret did 30 years ago is a pretty low blow.

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  79. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    What’s even more amusing is the clown comes here using a pseud…when on his own blog he identifies himself…Makes sense to a leftie I suppose…

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  80. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    This isn’t a media beat up to pretend so is unwise; she apparently told a lie to parliament and got caught. To say media beat up is like blaming the police when you get caught committing a crime.

    It does of course raise some interesting questions, who leaked the story to Labour being the most obvious one. It would appear a MFAT official with knowledge of what actually transpired compared it to the official record, saw the differences and took it to Grant Robertson.

    The idea that she can “take a few days off” isn’t going to fly, the documents released today show her misleading the house, John Key can say “they don’t show much new”, but that’s false. It’s a blatent firing offense. One wonders what leverage she has over the leadership of the party.

    There’s a German saying Mr Key should consider, “Lieber ein Ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne Ende”, it means “Rather a painful ending than endless pain”

    She’s not going to get out of this, better to take the pain and lose her now than have it overshadow next weeks pre-election budget.

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  81. RF (1,490 comments) says:

    Judith… The real one not the pretender that posts here. Go you good thing. The left are trying to bring down the right and will fail. The silent T will open his mouth soon … When he is allowed to … and crash the Labour Party. Smarmy prick.

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  82. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    Alan: On the face of it I agree with you…the account of the meeting given in the House seems to differ quite markedly from what actually transpired…But my far more experienced advisor tells me (and he is very very smart) that it’s not different enough to be characterised as “misleading parliament” which is indeed a hanging offence…One has to remember that every single day of a Minister’s life has a timetable…literally including “family time” and “attending to personal needs”…every minute is scheduled (God knows what they do if the Minister gets a bleeding nose or has a fainting spell)

    Given that reality, it is quite conceivable that several weeks or months after an event a Minister may not be quite certain whether this or that meeting was arranged in advance or squeezed into what would otherwise have been “personal time”…

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  83. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ RF

    You think I’m pretending to be Judith Collins? Now that is the funniest thing I’ve ever read on here considering my contributions. It may have escaped you, but there are other people in the world that have the name Judith – Collins is not the one and only.

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  84. aquataur (59 comments) says:

    Collins is and should be toast

    Although I am a strong National supporter, it will be of no loss to National or the country if she goes. The view of Collins is that she is arrogant, a bully and has a highly inflated view of her own abilities and intelligence. She has been caught telling porkies and using / abusing her Ministerial position for the benefit of her husband.

    Good riddance I say !
    God help NZ if she ever rises higher than where she is now.

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  85. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Key failed to act again.

    What does this woman have on him?

    Maurice Williamson must be feeling hard done by. He didn’t even get one final warning.

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  86. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    @DG, Perhaps you’re right and it doesn’t quite hit the de jure threshold for misleading parliament, i’ll accept your advisors word on this; However this is politics, not a court of law; it badly fails the sniff test and that’s what really matters, esp in an election year.

    Given the choice of having Collins go now or limping on and being able to throw shit at her constantly for the next few months (there is “no moving” on from this) I think Labour and certainly Winston Peters would prefer the second option. Deflects from the fact that they have nothing really constructive to say about other topics.

    There’s too much blood in the water to get away from, it’s just about at the stage when it’d be a kindness to fire her.

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  87. Ross12 (1,484 comments) says:

    Mikenmild –“How was what Bradford did inappropriate? And if it was inappropriate, why has Collins apologised?”

    I would say what Bradford said was NOT inappropriate. But as Whaleoil pointed out it cannot go both ways — it cannot be inappropriate for MW to ring the Police with implication that it was pressure from a Minister; then Bradford mentioning her situation to a Minister implying she would like some help. In both cases the implication was NOT what was intended but the MSM have blown it up.
    What I’m saying is that I don’t think what MW did was inappropriate either.

    As I posted on GD , I heard a comment radio today about MW and the guy said –lets turn the situation around. If MW had rung the Police on the victims behalf ( in this case the wife) and asked the Police if the case was progressing what would have been said ?
    In my view a good question.

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  88. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    New Zealand’s problems with judicial corruption are bigger than Collins, and Key’s problems with his security relationship with Obama are only just beginning. A robust economy is no substitute for a sound constitutional base to work from.

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  89. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    Here we go…a nice conspiracy theory to bend the thread well off topic…

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  90. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Tell me more about your conspiracy theory, David.

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  91. SGA (1,256 comments) says:

    David Garrett at 6:04 pm

    Here we go…a nice conspiracy theory to bend the thread well off topic…

    It’s called looking at the “bigger picture”, don’t you know :-)

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  92. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    For you bigger picture people, how does the Benghazi-Syria terrorism angle fit in with a trusted partner relationship with China?

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  93. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    SGA: I am just a simple boy from Gisborne….please be indulgent and tell me how John Key’s relationship with Obama impacts on Judith Collins’ current problems…Words of two syllables or less if you can…

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  94. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    Methinks Mr Salmond has a few of his buddies visiting us…Welcome men and wimmin…the rules here are rather different from where you usually comment…the main difference is you can say pretty much whatever you like (other than defamation or unwarranted attacks on our genial host) and you won’t get banned…Yep, that’s right…Mr Farrar actually believes in free speech (rather than just saying he does)

    You can even use a pseud if you must…either the one you’re used to or some other, DPF doesnt care…Enjoy your visit…

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  95. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Ross12 (952 comments) says:
    May 5th, 2014 at 6:00 pm

    There is a big difference Ross. Bradford is a private person – yes, she may be employed by a media firm, but she is like the rest of us, a member of the electorate. Collins is an elected member of Parliament – she is employed by us – (the us including Bradford) – as such Collins ( and MW) have standards to abide by. (as do most civil servants)

    Any member of the electorate should be able to approach the Minister under those terms and expect confidentiality unless it is a matter of national concern. There is a vast difference between the two roles which means that certain behaviour is acceptable for one, and not the other.

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  96. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    Judith, so if you were a minister you would – pull a few strings – to help the gutter press, and MOST importantly… not tell anyone ?

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  97. Longknives (4,956 comments) says:

    My God- One News were just crowing with delight over the Judith Collins thing tonight…
    The smirks from the alleged ‘impartial journalists’ were fucking nauseating.
    Katie Bradford is a disgrace- A hardcore political activist masquerading as a reporter should never happen at that level.
    And with an election only months away the onslaught of bullshit from the left will only get worse….

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  98. David Garrett (7,700 comments) says:

    ‘Knives: When you have journos who also have blogs the line between journalism and opinion becomes inextricably blurred…although I guess at least you know what slant they are coming from…but then of course there is only one slant…can anyone think of a “right wing journalist” since Perigo? And he was so professional and even handed it was impossible to know his slant until he quit and revealed it…

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  99. OneTrack (3,363 comments) says:

    longknives – “We have a winner! Asshole of the week….”

    And it’s a lefty. I’m so surprised.

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  100. Pongo (374 comments) says:

    With so much bollocks being reported it is fertile ground for idiots like salmond to talk shit. The dropping in on the way to the airport was a totally separate event to the dinner which was pre planned and confusing the two is misleading.
    Bradford clearly tried to get a bit of help from the Minister and she probably thought she could pressure the Minister into helping as let’s face it Bradford has a huge audience every night, the fact the press gallery see nothing wrong with that clearly shows they need a bloody big cleanout and they are hypocrites.

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  101. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kea (11,046 comments) says:
    May 5th, 2014 at 6:42 pm

    If I were a minister, I would be expected to give any individual, regardless of their occupation, the same level of confidentiality in a private conversation, as any other type of profession, whether they voted and supported my party, or not. The only exception would be if the matter was illegal or of national importance.

    There WAS NO evidence given that Bradford asked for help or a favour. That is pure speculation – making the right as bad as the left.

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  102. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Pongo
    Except it wasn’t ‘dropping in on the way to the airport’ was it? It was a pre-planned visit, about which the Minister has lied to Parliament.

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  103. big bruv (14,218 comments) says:

    It pisses me off that Collins has had to apologise to a low life like Bradford. When you have somebody like Bradford who so obviously pushes the same fucked up political views as her low life mother then as far as I am concerned she is fair game.

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  104. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    “With so much bollocks being reported it is fertile ground for idiots like salmond to talk shit. The dropping in on the way to the airport was a totally separate event to the dinner which was pre planned and confusing the two is misleading.”

    No one is confusing the two, the Orivida thing was preplanned. See page 30 here. http://polity.co.nz/sites/all/uploads/MFAT%20Collins%20OIA%20release%20tranche%202.pdf

    Do try to keep up with events.

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  105. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Perhaps Judith Collins simply has enough human decency within her to apologise to someone she has wronged.

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  106. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ big bruv (12,430 comments) says:
    May 5th, 2014 at 6:55 pm

    So you think that our elected representatives should be allowed to target anyone they don’t agree with and denigrate them publicly, lie to parliament and generally do whatever they like to anyone they don’t like or who doesn’t vote for them?

    WOW, have you thought of relocating to North Korea perhaps? I think you would be very happy there.

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  107. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild (9,050 comments) says:
    May 5th, 2014 at 6:58 pm

    I believe she already has apologised, in a private conversation with Ms Bradford.

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  108. altiora (279 comments) says:

    Agree with Judith above.

    The Bradford “incident” is a non-issue, and is simply not comparable to a Minister of the Crown calling up the Police to enquire about an on-going investigation. I wish the Collins supporters would stop trying to spin this: they are indulging in the worse of the leftist behaviour of trying to add a sinister overlay where there is no evidence. In so doing they are aiding the leftists in bringing down the basic standards of trust and civility that a healthy democracy requires. Bradford was probably guilty of no more than naiivity and over-familiarity, rather than wanting the Minister to intervene.

    Annoys me that we have an excellent government that is being kneecapped by otherwise silly errors that could have been avoided by a modicum of foresight. Ministers need to keep the private and public firmly separated. They also need to remember that neither the opposition nor the media will give them any slack when they fail to do so — especially in election year. Perception is everything.

    I think the Collins “time off” is code word for “the PM has given me an ultimatum to resign or be sacked”. Personally, I think Key should just sack her; this would cement his reputation as a no nonsense leader.

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  109. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    She has to go.

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  110. Viking2 (11,676 comments) says:

    Isn’t it interesting.
    Until now the Nats. have been a coherent party on the public face. Compare that with labour and then think about Labour under Helen.
    It would seem that the Nats. have no idea how to control the conversation. the Nats. lack leadership.
    When the boss leaves his people out on a limb the boss gets little respect.

    The Nats are self destructing.
    Prediction, Bill and Nick will be running the show next.
    Well I guess that’s what they have wanted for years.

    Christ what a shambles.

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  111. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    If I were a minister, I would be expected to give any individual, regardless of their occupation, the same level of confidentiality in a private conversation, as any other type of profession, whether they voted and supported my party, or not.

    Judith, WRONG. A minister should reveal any conflict of interest and report any wrong doing. This has both elements present.

    1. Are you seriously telling me Collins made the whole story up about the scum reporters approach ?

    2.And if so, then why even mention confidentiality ?

    3. Confidentiality about what ? The conversation you claim never happened.

    Cut the BS Judith !

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  112. Ross12 (1,484 comments) says:

    All the harassing of Judith Collins by Robertson and media will be pissing off a lot of female voters –they will see it as just straight out bullying.

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  113. altiora (279 comments) says:

    Viking2: I suspect that certain well placed people have being keeping their powder dry awaiting for the right moment to cause maximum damage. I also suspect that, as with the Hollow Man emails, National insiders are involved. And when even WO is running a “they’re just targeting Collins unfairly due to her being a woman” line, I guess you know that Collins’ side is running out of arguments.

    Why on earth doesn’t National have a committee to screen potentially politically sensitive donations? Williamson and Collins have done more to stir the anti-Asian sentiment than Labour and NZFirst.

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  114. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    If Key doesn’t sack her, then that is a message to the electorate, caucus and National supporters, that the careers of certain individuals are more important than the prospects of the party or the country.

    How deeply is National involved in Oravida? Is that the problem?

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  115. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Kea (11,047 comments) says:
    May 5th, 2014 at 7:17 pm

    So what has Collins made up?

    Did you hear her say that Bradford asked her for a favour to get her partner a job?

    Collins never said anything of the sort, being the clever woman she is, she did the typical female thing, and said just enough to let people draw their own conclusions, knowing full well what some would think.

    What part of Collins now saying there wasn’t any favour request, don’t you understand?

    You fell for it hook line and sinker – exactly what Collins wanted you to think – innuendo has been a favourite tool of women for centuries.

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  116. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    Viking2, relax. Key is handling the media filth well. If this is all they can scrape out the gutter to make National look bad then the election will be firmly won by National.

    If NZ goes back to the sort of authoritarian corrupt govt we had under the vile Klarken-beast then they deserve all they get. Just stay for the show and piss on the ashes of the dammed.

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  117. Ross12 (1,484 comments) says:

    Tom

    How was Collin’s dinner any different to Helen Clark opening Cunliffe’s wife’s new law practice ? ( that’s not counting the inside knowledge she would have obviously got about the new Environment laws)
    Also if Collins was sacked from Cabinet what exactly would have been achieved ?? Robertson’s ego gets a little bit more inflated –that’s about it.

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  118. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    How was Collin’s dinner any different to Helen Clark opening Cunliffe’s wife’s new law practice ? ( that’s not counting the inside knowledge she would have obviously got about the new Environment laws)

    1) Collins was instrumental in solving a problem for Oravida through political corruption.

    2) Collins lied about the visit to the public and to parliament.

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  119. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    Tom, Klark set new lows for political corruption in this country. She was a fanatical controlling despot who believed any means were justified by her goals. A bitter and dangerous woman.

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  120. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Tom, Klark set new lows for political corruption in this country.

    How?

    The present government is deeply corrupt.

    Collins is bad, but everyone knows that Key lied about Dotcom and lets the GCSB spy on us. Banks is bent and the Maori Party is bent. Maurice Williamson puts the heavies on the cops because they arrested a wife beating National donor.

    It’s the party of sleaze.

    I’m starting to think that Gower’s visit to Oravida is now in perspective. It’s a company designed to funnel money to the National Party, probably including post political jobs, and that National has found big money in pandering to the interests of wealthy Chinese interests.

    The reason Collins isn’t gone is that sacking her would lift the roof of this epidemic of sleazy dealmaking.

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  121. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    How many more sleazy Chinese deals has the National Party got in store for New Zealand?

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  122. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10007952/Pressure-on-Collins-following-outburst

    Can Judith Collins stay on as a minister?

    Yes, the controversy doesn’t affect how she works
    223 votes, 22.3%

    Yes, but only just
    104 votes, 10.4%

    No, it’s the last straw and she should resign
    673 votes, 67.3%

    Total 1000 votes

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  123. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    There’s something dodgy about that Staff poll. I’ve voted 73 times and ‘No’ is still only at 67%.

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  124. Mark Craig (31 comments) says:

    David Garrett ,you have just been thorughly bitch slapped and owned tonight by Rob Salmond .Suck it up sweetie

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  125. stigie (1,448 comments) says:

    Mark Craig you are a simple leftie dickhead !!~

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  126. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    Ugly, you really are very easily manipulated. I expected better from you of all people !

    Stuff is a perfect example of a corrupted and bias media.

    Stuff will not allow voting unless they are confident the sheeple have have been properly instructed on what to think.

    Stuff will not allow comments when they know that public opinion runs counter to their spin.

    Stuff is about infotainment and propaganda dispersal to the unthinking masses who spend the remainder of their empty lives shopping, watching reality shows and generally being brainless.

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  127. SGA (1,256 comments) says:

    David Garrett at 6:21 pm

    SGA: I am just a simple boy from Gisborne….please be indulgent and tell me how John Key’s relationship with Obama impacts on Judith Collins’ current problems…Words of two syllables or less if you can…

    Oh my goodness – you (and others) took my comment concerning UT’s remarks seriously. Wow.

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  128. TM (100 comments) says:

    Collins may have been an effective minister, but is a liability now. I personally don’t think the media have a left wing (or right wing) agenda, although they may have some bias. They ultimately just want readership and viewers. But Collins has burnt a few bridges with the media, and now she is reaping what she sowed. This whole episode will have scuppered her leadership aspirations for the foreseeable future.

    Unfortunately for National, the developments over the week reek of third term arrogance, and it’s only their second term. I would expect this to put a lot of swing voters off National and I expect to see a bounce for NZ First, Conservatives and Labour.

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  129. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    I personally don’t think the media have a left wing (or right wing) agenda, although they may have some bias.

    LOL :)

    “Collins has burnt a few bridges with the media”

    By not helping the medias family members get jobs ?

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  130. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Still pretending that was the case, Kea?

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  131. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    milky, you said “no one” claims Collins made the story up. You told me that.

    That only leaves one conclusion. Would you like to withdraw the statement and now claim Collins just made it all up for shits & giggles.

    Your call…

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  132. Nostalgia-NZ (5,320 comments) says:

    This is reaching another interesting point. In the last couple of months JC has a few times showed emotion for the situations of others. In particular for a British woman given a position as a victim’s advocate I think it was from memory. Rightly or wrongly I thought that was her public struggle with the situation she has found herself in, a rare opportunity to show emotion by reflection upon by the situation of another, a kindred spirit and someone else also hard done by. Far from uncommon, and we’ve seen much of it evidenced today, where the media are held responsible by some for what JC did or didn’t do. A sort of mutual grief and anger.

    Such emotions are soon exhausted. JC appears to have 2 more days before taking a respite months before an important election when a Minister should be expected to be on the top of their game in preparation. It’s an easy observation that the ‘sideways’ movement directly benefits the Government, somewhat surprisingly some of the opposition have also said it is for the best. That seems to be a core point here, the shift, even though it must be wondered how voluntary it really is. I’m interested in what a time of reflection by the JC and the Government will show. One thing for sure it will largely halt the on going Oravida debacle because there is no apparent evidence that anyone else in National is directly involved or even the extent of JC’s own involvement. But what a deflation for the opposition in the first instance, and probably a relief to many in National in the second. More particularly JK has been seen to act, showing the leadership that many would expect of him. This is surely not any type of vindication for JC but rather for the PM.

    Early days yet. But it can be assumed that JC’s departure is not necessarily temporarily. She may reflect on being shown out the side door and ‘escaping’ the battle as a reason to move on. On the other hand this move has probably given relief to a National caucus among whom some may have had the opinion that JC was crapping in the party nest rather than her own. A positive long term, as someone else pointed out above in different words, is that MPs should be careful about whose backs they scratch and expect to scratched by in return, in fact be deadly afraid. The MW outrage might simply have been a projection by JC for what she saw in the real world, that perception of self interest should not simply be held at arms length but nuked on the spot.

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  133. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    You are not making much sense, Kea. Quelle surprise.

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  134. Nostalgia-NZ (5,320 comments) says:

    ‘By not helping the medias family members get jobs ?’

    What family member was that?

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  135. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Winter is coming, Judith Collins.

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  136. Mark Craig (31 comments) says:

    Stigie old fruit I am centre centre centre ,howeverer there you are out there to the right of Vlad the impaler and Attila the Hun ,and of course masturbater Red .What has happenned to habitual tossers old insolent prick and Gooner and adolf finkel goober ,misodgernist and all the usual wing nuts that have infested this place of one eyed ignorance for so many years .

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  137. Kea (13,571 comments) says:

    “out there to the right of Vlad the impaler ”

    That had me doubled over in tears of laughter. Brilliant :)

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  138. altiora (279 comments) says:

    Tom: I think you may be guilty of engaging in conspiracy theories here. It may simply be a case that Collins has not been telling Key the truth, and Key has played the good boss and taken her word for it. But I suspect that the OIA “drop” has revealed the unvarnished truth, and now Key will be thinking “what have I to gain from letting this drag out? and do I want to win this election or not?”

    That said, I am mightily concerned about the number of wealthy Chinese nationals getting immigration favours, and donating money to National and Labour. I have no doubt that Chinese people immigrating to New Zealand are by and large good and decent people. But we have to be very cautious that Chinese people come from a very different system and that their sense of morals have unfortunately been corrupted in recent times by Maoism.

    As I posted earlier, given the sensitivity surrounding political donations, National should be screening these donations and refusing those that could be a “bad look”.

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  139. freemark (660 comments) says:

    Why do the corrupt, dishonest Socialist or drunk Opposition get so frenzied about cups of tea? Bizarre. Why do they and their sycophantic supporters like Salmond above get all high & mighty about a 30 year old victimless prank (DG) when their whole ideology and votes are directly responsible for the most foul child abuse & murder every year in NZ?
    Hey “Judith” (not Collins) You wouldn’t happen to have blonde hair to go with that IQ would you? Uncannily similar attitudes & turn of phrase…

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  140. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Tom: I think you may be guilty of engaging in conspiracy theories here.

    Perhaps. I have no idea. Key’s behaviour is perplexing. I’m not the only one asking what Collins has on him.

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  141. altiora (279 comments) says:

    Perhaps Key’s behaviour reflects that Collins has a power base, most notably the WO set.

    Collins’ supporters are prone to see Key as too soft, they are aggrieved that he hasn’t gutted Clark’s policies, and think Collins is being victimised. (Btw, you can get an insight into their mindset from the fact that in the last few days WO has featured a duck confit recipe from ‘Aunty Crusher’ and shown a photograph of her as a 19 year old.)

    Key probably doesn’t want to antagonise them in the absence of clear proof of wrong doing, or the overwhelming support of the caucus to get rid of the distraction.

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  142. Tom Jackson (2,553 comments) says:

    Perhaps Key’s behaviour reflects that Collins has a power base, most notably the WO set.

    And they are a liability.

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  143. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ freemark (328 comments) says:
    May 5th, 2014 at 10:23 pm

    You think I have a low IQ because I don’t agree with you, and think things through in a different manner to you? I suggest you do some research on exactly what an I.Q. is my dear.

    As far as why I am so annoyed with Collins – there are several minor reasons, but one of the main ones is this –

    For centuries men have claimed that women are not suited to politics due to their irrationality and susceptibility to emotional outburst, being unable to separate the personal from the professional. Women have fought back and said no, it is our sensitivity that makes us more suitable to politics and determining what at least half the population need. We’ve argued that we are not emotionally driven creatures, and that when it comes to fulfilling our political roles, and keeping our emotions in check, we can do that without acting irrationally and with spite, as males have claimed we would.

    We have worked hard for just over a century to find a place for women in politics and although we have not reached equality in numbers, we have got there by our own efforts. (No, I don’t agree with any policy that makes it easier for women to get a place in the big house).

    Judith Collins in one foul lash of the tongue has managed to place a very big dent in our claims – so am I peeved about this enough to critique her ? You can bet I am, she deserves everything she’s got – but Key does not deserve the fall out that he has got. He is between a rock and a hard place.

    Regarding DG and the child abusers – how many child abusers do you see as MP’s? There are certain things we expect from the people we elect to represent us – hidden crimes are not one of them – although having said that, I believe that DG was a good politician, and better than many we see today, and I also think he should, having paid his penance be allowed to return to politics – all the better for having experienced what he has.

    Am I concerned you don’t like me, or don’t agree with my opinion? – oh I’m devastated!!! ;-)

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  144. Mark (1,502 comments) says:

    In the last 8-10 weeks Judith Collins has gone from a very competent, tough politician with a safe pair of hands even the the extent that she is in the conversation for the future National Party leadership to now being a political risk that Key has sent to the sin bin to cool off for a few days.

    The fact that Key has had to intervene is telling and is a significant setback. Its a shame, I found her approach refreshing and she had a strong air of confidence. But this damn dinner then half truths and dodgy explanations have undone a lot of very good work.

    Can she survive this, probably (good god Hekia has survived after all) but one suspects she has hit her ceiling now and that the future leadership aspirations are off the table.

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  145. freemark (660 comments) says:

    @ Judith (5,846 comments) says:
    May 6th, 2014 at 7:21 am

    What a very strange response. There is (as I suspect you well know) a commentator who goes by “blondewithanIQ” who shares remarkably similar views and uses remarkably similar language to you..which is why I remark, as I know who she is.
    You obviously have a low opinion of the IQ of blondes..I certainly don’t.
    But it is fascinating how after spending months or years completely & in very misogynist tones denigrating Collins & Key you show some insight in your above comment. I find it fascinating how women who on one hand are extremely outspoken on the strengths of women are so spiteful (envious?) towards some of our most effective and politically successful women..(only the right of centre ones however) Nice to think that some rational kiwibloggers may have swayed your views.
    On child abusers as MP’s..anyone who opposes current Welfare Reform is a child abuser IMO, more so if they do it in the House. As far as whether I “like” you or not.. hard to say – I think you are pretty dishonest but we expect that from Socialists.

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  146. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Not everyone who opposes welfare ‘reform’ is a child abuser. Nor is everyone with whom you disagree a ‘Socialist’.

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  147. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Tom: I think you may be guilty of engaging in conspiracy theories here.

    Should a good detective or investigative reporter feel guilty about considering conspiracy theories?

    Making the term a perjorative is an excellent strategy for those who have something to hide, or for the people defending them.

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  148. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Excellent point Ugly. There are actual conspiracies. Pity you only talk about fantastic ones.

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  149. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Ugly, you really are very easily manipulated.

    So you’re admitting to being a troll now, Kea?

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  150. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Pity you only talk about fantastic ones.

    Grow up, mikey. Western history is filled with accounts of organised criminal activity masquerading as official state activity.

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  151. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Just because historical conspiracies have existed does not mean that any of your weird theories have any validity.

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  152. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    The fact that you don’t like them doesn’t make them weird. In the case of Judith Cullen the is plenty of ammunition for a conspiracy theory, but it’s based on the perversion of justice arising from wrongful conviction and imprisonment more than the nepotism and dishonesty of the Oravida business.

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  153. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Sigh. Whose wrongful conviction?

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  154. tom hunter (5,134 comments) says:

    Just because historical conspiracies have existed does not mean that any of your weird theories have any validity.

    Perhaps a trip to Egypt is on the cards: according to Michael Totten it’s the Conspiracy Capital of the World. Here’s just a taste (see the original for links):

    “Israel, Turkey, the United States, the European Union, and Qatar are all conspiring against Egypt, screams a self-proclaimed Egyptian liberal; the United States is working against Copts for the benefit of Jews, shouts a Coptic activist; the Brotherhood is implementing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, writes the newspaper of what was once Egypt’s flagship liberal party; Israel aims to divide Egypt into a number of smaller and weaker states, writes another; Brotherhood leaders are Masonic Jews proclaims a Sufi leader; no, it’s the coup that is working for the benefit of the Jews, declares the Brotherhood’s website.”

    I like the last sentence:

    These are all symptoms of a decaying society.

    No shit Sherlock.

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  155. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ freemark (330 comments) says:
    May 6th, 2014 at 5:42 pm

    Never heard of ‘blondewithanIQ’ so you’ve lost me on that one.

    I take each situation at face value. On most situations I am at odds with Collins, she and I have different politics, and so it is unlikely that we would every agree on much, however, I do acknowledge she has achieved more than many woman, however, sadly the higher up one goes the further they have to fall when things turn to custard.

    As far as Key is concerned, I don’t like his politics, but are not past acknowledging it when I believe he is right.

    Unlike many on here, I have no hidden agenda. I speak up for what I believe in, and are more than willing to speak against the things I don’t. I don’t care who anyone supports politically, and are more than happy to share a joke with anyone.

    I get really peeved off with people who insist that life revolves round a person’s political affiliations – it doesn’t in the real world – so I fail to see why it should on here.

    When people become so insulated that they see evil in anyone or anything that doesn’t share the same opinion, and immediately distrust someone because they vote for a different party, then in my opinion, they’ve lost all sense of what is real.

    You think I’m dishonest because I don’t like the current welfare reform, – but what if I have a better policy in mind – what if my life experience and my professional capacity has provided me with experience and examples that means I have good reason to think there are other ways – is that not then an objective reason to have a ‘different opinion’ to yours?

    I am objective enough to know that judging someone’s character by what they write on a blog – would have to be the most unreliable way of going about living in this strange cyber world. E.G. your insistence that I should know someone called ‘blondewithanIQ, because they type like me – in a world of so many people, is it really all that strange that there might two or ten people that share the same values and opinions and share them in a similar way?

    You don’t have to trust anyone on here – its only a blog !

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  156. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    @MM
    For starters, Krishla Fuataha, Tania Vini and Lucy Akatere.

    The general theme is that the police will fit up the most likely suspect even if they have evidence which clears them, from Arthur Allan Thomas to Scott Watson to Teina Pora. People with an enforcement background like Crusher Collins have no place in a judicial role.

    I know from experience how corrupt the system is, witnessing a judge admit to committing fraud and then obfuscating with about three sentences worth of legalese.

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  157. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Israel aims to divide Egypt into a number of smaller and weaker states

    It’s called then Oded Yinon Plan.
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-israel-the-zionist-plan-for-the-middle-east/5324815

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  158. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    ‘witnessing a judge admit to committing fraud’
    Would that be the same mean judge who made you have a psychiatric evaluation?

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  159. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Would that be the same mean judge who made you have a psychiatric evaluation?

    Nothing mean about it, it was simply a stalling tactic. In hindsight I should have just told him that I had no interest in talking to them and that it would be a waste of everyone’s time.

    So in what way is what I have described weird, MM?

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  160. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Almost everything you describe is weird, Ugly, Why single out one bit? It’s all pure comedy gold.

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  161. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Yeah, fitting people up for murder is just hilarious, eh mikey.

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  162. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    And who has done that?

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  163. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    And who has done that?

    Bruce Hutton of the NZ police. Why are you defending this perversion of justice, mikenmild?

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  164. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Who said I was defending him?

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  165. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    I said that that you were defending the general perversion of justice, which you did when you said that: “It’s all pure comedy gold.”
    Bruce Hutton planting evidence is only one example of the corruption.

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  166. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    No, your nutty conspiracy theories are the comedic gems. Those theories have nothing to do with Hutton’s perversion of the course of justice.

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  167. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    I’ve gone back through this thread Ugly, and you have confused me. You started out talking about Collins and perversion of justice and then segued into the Arthur Thomas case as if that had some relevance. You really are making even less sense than usual, and that’s without your usual doses of pseudolegal woo.

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  168. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Those theories have nothing to do with Hutton’s perversion of the course of justice.

    They have everything to do with it, and calling them nutty only shows that you’re incapable of a rational response.

    Here it is about protection racketeering, the state fitting people up to minimise the perception of unsolved crime. Collins aggravates the problem by obstructing the remedy eg Fisher’s hatchet job of Binnie’s work.

    The wider context of international security relationships can be seen the same way, with Key going to Obama for protection when Obama is up to his eyeballs in backing proxy terrorist groups eg Benghazi.

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  169. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Oh, so you are going on about Collins and the Bain case. No corruption there, I’m afraid. And I’m not sure where you are going with the Key/Obama thing.

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  170. freemark (660 comments) says:

    There is obviously an international conspiracy against deluded, troughing, lying Socialists.
    How surprising…:)

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  171. Nostalgia-NZ (5,320 comments) says:

    You’re a frantic and compliant dreamer mikenmild if you think excluding a party from proceedings which they have initiated is not corrupt. Or maybe you are just a dizzy spinner. I can understand why you idolise JC, it’s her fragile ‘manly’ side that must appeal to you

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  172. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Sorry, you will have to explain the alleged corruption more directly than that.

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  173. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    No corruption there, I’m afraid.

    Willful interference with due process is a form of corruption. Anyone making a judicial determination should be impartial, but Binnie noted that Collins had strong views on the Bain case.

    And I’m not sure where you are going with the Key/Obama thing.

    Like I said, it’s another form of protection racketeering, but on an international scale rather than a national one. This international racket involves creating or radicalizing proxies which can be used to advance a political agenda by violent means. State-based terrorism in other words.

    Key didn’t create this situation, but he has implicitly endorsed it by seeking a security relationship with the Obama administration.
    The common theme with both Collins and Key is that they are part of a civil protection racket. Collins’ nepotism and dishonesty make here more of a target for negative public opinion, conversely Key’s unusually low level of financial interest insulates him from it.

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  174. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Okay, can we separate the Collins/Bain thing from the Obama/Key thing? You will just get yourself even more muddled than usual.

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  175. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Re Bain, you would need to show that Collins is making a judicial determination. She isn’t – she is just taking a recommendation on compensation to the Cabinet.

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  176. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Re Key, firstly it is by no means clear that he is seeking any new security relationship with the US. Even if he was, what has that to do with whatever Obama is or isn’t doing?

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  177. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Okay, can we separate the Collins/Bain thing from the Obama/Key thing? You will just get yourself even more muddled than usual.

    You can drop the condescension, dickweed. You have no argument, and you are acting as an apologist for the state’s corrupt practices.

    you would need to show that Collins is making a judicial determination.

    Her judicial determination involved rejecting Binnies findings and assuming Binnie’s role as an impartial jurist.

    Key, firstly it is by no means clear that he is seeking any new security relationship with the US.

    “Mr Key attended the first Nuclear Security Summit in Washington, DC in 2010 at the invitation of President Obama, and he also attended the second Summit in Seoul in March 2012.”
    http://johnkey.co.nz/categories/2-News-release/P2.html

    Even if he was, what has that to do with whatever Obama is or isn’t doing?

    If you enter into a security arrangement with someone you are implicitly endorsing their methods of attaining that security.

    That’s it from me for tonight.

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  178. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    There’s fuck all there. In rejecting Binnie’s advice, Collins is not making a judicial determination.

    Attending the Nuclear Security Summits does not amount to seeking a new security relationship with the United States, unless you think the other 50 countries attending are also doing so.

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  179. Nostalgia-NZ (5,320 comments) says:

    Excluding a party from proceedings is corrupt because it denies all the fundamentals of the Law mikenmild, of knowing your accuser for example, being able to respond to the allegations they have made. The exclusion of due process, the right to know that you are being secretly committed to a Executive Trial without either notification or a right to respond – you good old commie you.

    Taking a recommendation to Cabinet is not ‘fiddling’ with it to ensure it has the approval of the Minister concerned. The Minister’s view is hand’s off, at a distance, not a engineered result. The Executive does not simply accept a recommendation, or an ‘added’ analysis of the recommendation. Your confusion of being subservient to a political master mikenmild has confused you about the Exercise of the Royal Prerogative. Of course there is little point arguing about it because it still unfolds to have its day in Court. Good luck with your view of denying open Justice.

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  180. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Again, neither you nor Ugly have been specific as to which alleged action constitutes ‘corruption’.

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  181. UglyTruth (4,554 comments) says:

    Let me break it down for you, mikenmild.

    I said: “Willful interference with due process is a form of corruption. Anyone making a judicial determination should be impartial, but Binnie noted that Collins had strong views on the Bain case.”

    Collins acted corruptly when she rejected the findings of an impartial jurist in favour of her own views.

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  182. mikenmild (12,387 comments) says:

    Firstly, Collins is not making a judicial determination. This is a political process where the Cabinet decides on compensation. There seems no reason why Collins should be bound to present Binnie’s findings if those findings are flawed. Where’s the corruption?

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