National’s potential electoral deals

June 12th, 2014 at 1:00 pm by David Farrar

Vernon Small writes:

 In the very strange case of Colin Craig and the Conservative Party, there is little doubt that John Key and his campaign maestro Steven Joyce are reluctant suitors.

Deal or no deal?

Welcome to John Key’s nightmare – or the closest you get to a nightmare when your party’s on 50 per cent and your opposition is fractured into five parts.

The prime minister has said he will announce a job-lot of deals with potential support parties in coming weeks.

On the face of it “arrangements” with all three make sense. In a tight race why throw away a chunk of Centre-Right support on your side of the fence, especially if Internet-Mana is going to vacuum up two or three seats on the other side?

Indeed.

Tactical voting is nothing new. In 1999 Helen Clark told Labour voters to vote for the Jeanette Fitzsimons in Coromandel. And last election the Greens told their supporters to vote for the Labour candidates in Auckland Central and Ohariu.

In the case of UnitedFuture, it is an easy equation.

Peter Dunne is a dream ally. He won’t go with the other side, causes only the occasional headache on principle each term, and has ministerial experience.

Even if you dump him he doesn’t go feral. And the chances are his party will poll so low that he will create an overhang seat – a net gain for the Right.

If a party gets below 0.4% then it is an overhang seat.

and David Seymour in Epsom are slightly more problematic.

Seymour is earnest lobby fodder for , his party is on the spectrum – as in the Right-wing one – and if he gets over the line there is a serious chance he will bring in another MP. However, the whiff of John Banks’ exit lingers in the air and there is an outside chance that Epsom voters will return the reluctant candidate Paul Goldsmith anyway.

And they have every right to do so.

I think Epsom voters will vote tactically, as they did previously. But the choice is up to them. National may say we are only seeking the party vote in an electorate – but they still stand a candidate, giving voters the choice. Epsom voters are not controlled by National. If they don’t want to tactically vote, then they won’t. All National will be doing is saying we’re happy for people to vote for the ACT candidate, as having ACT in Parliament means you get a National-led Government.

Which brings us to the third option, and the very strange case of Colin Craig and the Conservative Party.

There is little doubt that Key and his campaign maestro Steven Joyce are reluctant suitors.

But on the experience of 2011, Craig is likely to attract more votes than the other two combined.

So will National hold its nose and cut him a deal?

Well, the have said they don’t want a deal.

Back in the here and now, Key is playing a much more equivocal game with the Conservatives than the other two parties.

Maybe there was an element of game-playing on Key’s part, but on Tuesday he noted Craig’s enthusiasm for a deal with surprise as he harked back to earlier comments from Craig that he was not seeking an accommodation and was confident of clearing the 5 per cent hurdle.

Another Stuff story reports:

National backbencher Mark Mitchell says Conservative Party leader Colin Craig is “dreaming” if he thinks he will be gifted his seat.

Craig, who was defeated by Mitchell in Rodney by 12,222 votes in 2011, said this week he expected to be offered a deal handing him one of the Rodney, Upper Harbour or East Coast Bays seats in the September election.

Based on current polls, if Craig wins an electorate seat, he would take one or two MPs with him into Parliament, helping National gain a majority.

They could get 4 MPs. They got 2.7% last time and 2.8% gets you four MPs.

I’d be amazed if there was any deal in Rodney or North Shore. It simply would never happen.

Ultimately I imagine the decision will come down to necessity. If the polls show National, ACT and  likely to be able to form a Government, then why deal with the Conservatives and risk electoral damage from a deal.

But if it looks like NZ First would hold the balance of power, then I’d say Colin Craig is a far more attractive option than Winston. You can trust Craig, but not Peters.

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127 Responses to “National’s potential electoral deals”

  1. Unity (265 comments) says:

    Why do the media, when referring to Colin Craig, always insinuate that anything to do with him is very very strange!!?? To me he is about the only honest politician standing in this election. Perhaps this is what the media don’t like – honesty?! From what I’ve been able to gauge, Colin Craig is not a politicical animal but is standing because there are a number of issues relating to lack of democracy in this country that he wants to change/put right. I just hope he has a thick enough hide to be able to last the distance but also from what I’ve seen, I believe he will have. It would be very foolish to write him off.

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  2. tvb (4,192 comments) says:

    The Labour Party will portray any accommodation as a dirty deal. Key needs to make the deals open transparent and valid. The sneaky way these were done in the past made them look shifty especially the notorious cup of tea with John banks. It seems a more strategic approach is being taken that hopefully will blunt any attempt to make the deals look shifty.

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  3. emmess (1,367 comments) says:

    I would say, wait and see what Labour do in Te Tai Tokerau.
    First Colin Craig needs to announce that he is actually standing in East Coast Bays.
    If Labour give Kelvin Davis a high list rank and are not going all out to defeat Harawira then John Key and others just needs to keep stating that Murray McCully has a high list rank too.
    Enough voters in East Coast Bays should be smart enough to work out what to do, in that case.

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  4. timmydevo (36 comments) says:

    I’d say it’ll be the end of the Conservatives if they don’t make it in this time, which would be disappointing. They can’t continue being bankrolled by Colin, and another three years of wandering on the fringes with no political say (apart from some local body members) is not easy, especially when you want to be taken seriously.

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  5. trout (898 comments) says:

    Epsom voters will definitely vote for an Act candidate; it has traditionally been the preferred option to retain a National Government – plain and simple. On the Colin Craig issue I would expect McCully to let him in in East Coast Bays; McCully is a master strategist, this will in all probability be his last term and I am sure he does not want to be part of an opposition – if that awful fate does befall him it is easier to escape if you are a list MP.

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  6. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    You can trust Craig, but not Peters.

    Craig has no political record so it’s difficult to claim that.

    He has been asked who he would go into coalition with.

    Hi Colin
    When the Conservative Party gets some members into Parliament next year which party would they most likely align with in coalition.
    Dave.

    Hi Dave.

    We have said that we will talk with the highest polling party first as voters have given that party a mandate to lead. That looks like National at this early stage. We are not entering any coalition agreement that forces us to break a promise. We accept we may not be able to deliver action on all policies first time round but we expect to make some solid progress.

    http://www.conservativeparty.org.nz/index.php?page=FAQ

    If Conservatives get a few seats and could make up the numbers for a National coalition it’s not a given that Conservatives would do a deal. If the promises they won’t break are, for example, binding citizen referenda and scrapping the so-called smacking law then it might be impossible to go into coalition if Craig’s word is to be trusted.

    I’m not sure if Craig has defined his election promises and bottom lines yet. Is anyone aware of any?

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  7. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    ‘You can trust Craig, but not Peters’
    Hah! I’m sure Key will have a much different line after the election when we are introduced to Sir Winston Peters, Co-Prime Minister.

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  8. Manolo (13,297 comments) says:

    P.G.’s personal crusade against Colin Craig continues unabated.
    One wonders what’s behind it? Antipathy towards the man? Orders from the fantasist from Ohariu? Who knows?

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  9. David Garrett (6,307 comments) says:

    Unity: I agree with you re the supposedly “strange” Colin Craig…I have met the man a number of times, and I fail to detect anything “strange” about him…He is perhaps somewhat naive, and a bit unworldly…but in my experience he is neither strange nor the Christian lunatic he is often accused of being…

    Milky: Like to make a wager about Peters’ future? You know I am a betting man…

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  10. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    National will be at huge risk of backlash if they pull McCully and gift it to Craig. It would be an unprecedented degree of electorate jack-up assisting the parachuting in of a party not yet in Parliament.

    It would look especially bad because National are responsible for retaining the MMP rules (and rejecting recommended changes) that enable then to try this self interested coat tailing.

    National, Conservatives and democracy

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  11. timmydevo (36 comments) says:

    PG: maybe they should support Craig standing in Epsom? More seats available than just allowing ACT back in? Then they wouldn’t have to work about jacking up two seats?

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  12. polemic (360 comments) says:

    I think you DPF have summarised it correctly,

    You can trust Craig, but not Peters.

    I still find it hard to believe the naivety of voters that still think that “Winston First” is trustworthy

    Sure you could say show me an honest politician but again who do you trust more?

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  13. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Manolo, you’re jerking off again. I’ve made it clear a number of times that I think the MMP threshold should be dropped so parties like Conservatives can get into Parliament on their own merits without needing abuses of democracy that are being suggested in East Coast Bays.

    Yesterday when you tried this tired line of attack you disappeared when I asked you to front up and state your relationship with the Conservative Party. Do you support them? Are they your preferred party?

    I also pointed out yesterday that anything perceived as not totally lauding Colin seems to result in factless personal attacks from his supporters. If they think they might get a place in Parliament they need to learn something about debate rather than always resorting to berate.

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  14. David Garrett (6,307 comments) says:

    Polemic: Quite so…I always refer to Peters as The Great Charlatan”…I actually find it quite scary how many people – and not only the enfeebled – believe what the prick says…I will be seriously disappointed in Key if he does a deal with him…

    Shit, thinking about that a bit…Peters in some bauble filled role or a Labour/Green/Maniac government? I suppose you’d have to hold your nose and go for the first…

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  15. Unity (265 comments) says:

    Pete George, I believe binding referenda is one of the Conservatives’ bottom lines. I also think racial equality under the law are also in there too. If this is the case, those two alone would be enough for him to get my Party vote. I also believe he wants to reverse the Foreshore and Seabed debacle and the anti-smacking legislation.

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  16. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Unity – any of those bottom lines would make it very difficult for Conservatives to reach an agreement with National. It would virtually rule it out.

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  17. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (779 comments) says:

    Boyz – Equation is simple. Murry Mooza McCully will be offered a high list plays and Colin Crazy Craig will be given East Coast Bays. Mooza after six months will slide away into some plum Foreign Affairs role…..Key is not that stupid to waste potentially 2.5% – 3% vote….Winnie is your last chance to stop Norman and Tuatara from becoming Deputy co-PMs…….

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  18. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    If those are Craig’s policies and they are bottom lines then it doesn’t look like he’ll be getting in a coalition with anyone. Probably will support National on confidence and supply and make tedious speeches about his values.

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  19. Unity (265 comments) says:

    It depends on how badly National need the Conservatives, Pete George. Let’s hope for all our sakes, they will be desperate for their support!!??

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  20. James Stephenson (2,004 comments) says:

    Peter Dunne is a dream ally. He won’t go with the other side, causes only the occasional headache on principle each term, and has ministerial experience.

    Eh? The principle he causes problems on, seems to be the principle of keeping the other side sweet enough he doesn’t have to give up his seat in a Beemer.

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  21. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    unity

    The media are leftists and will portray perceived enemies in a manner that they hope makes them unappealing to the electorate. They did a massive hatchet job on Don Brash when he looked most dangerous.

    same thing with Colin. We see it here on KB with three or four of the bigot obsessed fringe. They claim to follow politics etc and yet constantly portray CC as a religonutter,godwhack,godnutter,conservonutter etc

    National would be made not to do a deal if it meant 3 -4 seats. Act is dead.I’ll be party voting Conservative.

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  22. Nigel Kearney (864 comments) says:

    Peter Dunne has consistently gone with whoever offered the most baubles. He is loyal to National now. Before that he was loyal to Labour, even before that National, and Labour even earlier. It’s a truly astonishing record of political promiscuity that is unlikely to ever be repeated. I voted for Chauvel last time and will vote similarly again if necessary.

    The Conservatives’ policies appear to have more in common with Labour than National. They seem to have not noticed that the things they dislike about the left are also embraced by National. Once they realize this, they could become another random factor. The last thing we need is another middle party with no real beliefs just wagging the dog.

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  23. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    Yean James, I didn’t get that comment either. Surely Dunne will be a member of whatever government is formed, all in the name of ‘common sense’ of course.

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  24. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Unity – I’d be astounded if National would concede on any of those policies.

    It’s important that Craig details clearly what his promises and bottom lines are before any electorate deal is made. I don’t see National gifting him any electorate without knowing exactly what they would,have to deal with.

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  25. Unity (265 comments) says:

    This link might be helpful but there is more on the Conservatives website.

    http://www.conservativeparty.org.nz/Material/Documents/Treaty%20Policy.pdf

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  26. David Garrett (6,307 comments) says:

    Milky: I am not sure about the relationship between the Alliance and Nats, or NZ First and Nats, but ACT has NEVER been in a “coalition” government with the Nats..a confidence and supply agreement is a very different thing…

    Now about Sir Winston…a bottle of good quality NZ sparkles (say Daniel Le Brun or Deutz) says it aint going to happen…

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  27. peterwn (3,138 comments) says:

    It is risky not fronting a candidate for tactical reasons. National did not put a candidate up in Wellington Central in 1999 and one consequence was that National was not represented at at least ‘meet the candidates’ meeting – the organiser would not allow National a speaker in support of the party vote. It is quite likely that lack of a candidate adversely affects the party vote – there is no advocate for the party vote and some voters may choose not to exercise the party vote where there is no candidate of that party.

    Not standing a candidate is probably equivalent to an urn of tea at the Parnell tearooms in the message it sends out.

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  28. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,787 comments) says:

    The clanger which clattered all over the floor:-

    “You can trust Craig, but not Peters.”

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  29. Changeiscoming (132 comments) says:

    PG how do you define a deal in your above statement? Is the Maori party in the National coalition deal at the moment? I don’t believe there is a coalition agreement between the two (I maybe wrong), I know there is a “Relationship and Confidence and Supply Agreement” which kind of allows them to vote how they like outside of Confidence and Supply issues.

    I would suspect going by Colin Craigs statement we wont issue a blank cheque to any party that would mean they wouldn’t look for a coalition agreement deal but more of a Confidence and Supply agreement and vote on a case by case basis. Pretty much how the Maori Party operate at the moment.

    So if you are looking for a “lapdog” deal then, no deal but if you are looking for a stable govt where parties talk to each other and the people and reach consensus, then deal.

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  30. anticorruptionnz (157 comments) says:

    I have just announced that I will be standing as a independent for Epsom.

    Imagine that a long term Epsom resident standing to represent their own Electorate ?

    I look forward to John Key inviting me to a cuppa some where , the deal I want to see done is an independent commission against corruption , the united nations convention agaisnt corruption ratified, the same spotlight on every court proceeding as we have had on the John Banks case and every one equally accountable to the law .

    If every one who has been through, or knows of any one who has been through the family or civil courts, votes for me then I am certain to get a seat Its not about $$$ its about people and its about fairness .

    Grace Haden Independent 4 Epsom.

    ( standing by for you to tear me to bits )

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  31. davidp (3,540 comments) says:

    I think it is valid for National to not campaign against current coalition partners. They’re part of the team, and you don’t turn on your team. However, I don’t see why they’d go out of their way to make the team bigger:

    1. NZ already suffers from these one-man vanity parties. Craig has already shown he has a giant ego, so why pander to him by gifting him a safe seat in parliament?

    2. If Craig wasn’t spending Dotcom amounts of money then his party would we wallowing in obscurity. You shouldn’t be able to buy a seat in parliament. That applies to both Craig and Dotcom.

    3. Craig is just a bit odd. He’s a weird little man who believes in just about every conspiracy theory doing the rounds. And his latest advertisement makes him look like a sex offender. These qualities appeal to a tiny minority of voters, but creep out the average voter.

    4. If National don’t do a deal with Craig then his support (and wasted vote) will be minimal. Maybe 1 percent. But if National do a deal then they risk having several percent of current National voters defect, making National’s position weaker.

    5. National risk having moderate center voters jump to Labour because they find Craig’s back-to-the-50s policies distasteful.

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  32. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    I can confidently predict that John Key will not be doing a deal with Grace Haden.

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  33. kiwitory (4 comments) says:

    Here here Colin Craig excellent addition to the Government; I was smacked as a child and I smacked my children and there is nothing wrong with them.

    Fortunately those marxist lefties are not intelligent enough to understand tactical voting or otherwise Mr Key may have a problem.

    If Labour / Green supporters voted National in the seats where National has come to an accommodation with the Conservative and Act we could actually end up with a National candidate winning the seat; what a disaster that would be!

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  34. ROJ (78 comments) says:

    Nigel at 1.44 is spot on.

    If he does get to Parliament, don’t let him anywhere the purse!

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  35. anticorruptionnz (157 comments) says:

    @mikenmild what makes you say that ? How do you know or are you making a wild sweeping assumption ?

    or is it perhaps that you know that the key Government is so corrupt that it could not possibly associate with an anti corruption activist.

    Please elaborate.

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  36. wiseowl (751 comments) says:

    Maybe Colin Craig should stand in Ohariu.
    Now that would pit a cat among the pidgeons.

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  37. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    Well Grace, I’d just suggest you don’t wait by the phone for John Key’s call.

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  38. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    “National risk having moderate center voters jump to Labour”

    Or not voting. Complacency and not bothering to vote for the least worst option are things National will be wary of.

    I presume National will do their polling to see whether they are likely to gain or lose more by helping Craig into an electorate. Key has been giving mixed messages lately, saying he thought they would help[ Conservatives in some way but also saying he thought Craig was going for 5%.

    However Craig’s comments over the last few days hint that his polling shows 5% is an unlikely outcome, hence his renewed expressions of interest in National dropping something helpful in his lap.

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  39. James Stephenson (2,004 comments) says:

    If he does get to Parliament, don’t let him anywhere the purse!

    No worries, he’ll be happy just to be in the back seat of a BMW with Andrea Vance. :D

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  40. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    @TheTweetOfGod

    The problem with government of the people, by the people and for the people is the people.

    He seems to have reservations about binding referenda.

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  41. Chuck Bird (4,658 comments) says:

    Peters cannot be trusted. So what. I cannot think of any MP or candidate I would fully trust. It is a matter of degree.

    If the Conservative were part of the coalition it is more likely NZF would be as well. If Shane Jones in due course took over NZF National could have two long term coalition partners.

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  42. Unity (265 comments) says:

    Pete, it has worked extremely well in Switzerland for over 140 years. They have very few referenda because the Government knows that if they don’t listen to the people a referendum will be sought. They only have to get 50,000 signatures as against our over 300,000 signatures, to trigger a referendum. Our number should be drastically reduced.

    We only have a democracy here once every 3 years when we get a chance to change the Government but because of our lousy system they all seem to be as bad as each other, so nothing much changes. The rest of the time the Government doesn’t listen to us at all and just proceed with either their own agenda or that of the UN.

    Of course the Government would do all in their power to oppose binding referenda. They would lose all their power!!

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  43. anticorruptionnz (157 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild

    Don’t worry mikenmild I don’t wait for any man ( or woman for that matter ) Key included But I will extend an invitation to him as appears to be customary amongst those standing.

    I rather suspect that if there was an indication that I was going to get in he would be seeking me out pretty pronto

    never forget that fact is stranger than Fiction .

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  44. Scott Chris (5,868 comments) says:

    But if it looks like NZ First would hold the balance of power, then I’d say Colin Craig is a far more attractive option than Winston.

    That’s how National will have to sell it. Craig isn’t as bad an option as Peters.

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  45. dime (9,351 comments) says:

    “Peter Dunne is a dream ally. He won’t go with the other side”

    LMAO who the fuck wrote that?

    maybe it was edited?

    “Peter Dunne is a dream ally. He won’t go with the other side, unless his income and bene’s are threatened”.

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  46. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    That’s how National will have to sell it. Craig isn’t as bad an option as Peters.

    And their opponents will try and sell it as Craig plus Peters plus ACT. That’s what they’re already trying to do.

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  47. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    National may face the choice of agreeing to Craig’s bottom lines or not being in govt.

    What then?

    Frankly I hope National lose because it will see the end of Obama’s golfing buddy JK as leader. Until they get rid of the man who called the National Party a “progressive” party they’re not going to be worth a pinch of goat excrement.

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  48. Nigel Kearney (864 comments) says:

    Grace Haden, being in Parliament means you can vote on every bill, not just promote your pet cause. You could set out a position on every issue but we would get a rough idea if you tell us which party you think most deserves our party vote.

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  49. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    BTW, if John Key’s wife stopped him from going to the Field Days because he might have bumped into Colin Craig, how is she ever going to let Key form any kind of govt coalition with Craig?

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  50. GPT1 (2,086 comments) says:

    You can trust Craig, but not Peters.
    Yep, nuts vs nasty. Craig is, imho, odd to barmy with many daft ideas but I don’t question his sincerity which puts him about a million miles ahead of Winston and his cult.

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  51. anticorruptionnz (157 comments) says:

    @ Nigel That is simple I will vote on each issue according to the facts and ensure that there are proper accountability provisions in place.

    I hope that I can be guided on each issue as to how the people of Epsom regard the issue and which way they would want me to vote. That is because I would be voting as a representative for them .Being an independent means that I have not sold my soul and am supporting or rejecting a bill because my party funders say I should.

    For too long we have had MPs who once they get into parliament forget that they are the representative of the people in their electorate.

    There are business which get more attention from MPs than constituents do even to the point where a company in China can send an invite to a minister 2 weeks before her visit and get her to go out of her way , but a constituent cant get to see their local Mp for months … I happen to think that there is something wrong with those priorities.

    As A private Investigator I am quite used to doing background research for decisions

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  52. thePeoplesFlag (168 comments) says:

    Ideally, there will no deal with CCCP who will get 3% of the vote and no seats. Even better would be Labour and Green voters in Epsom electing Goldsmith, and ACT getting 3% Nationwide.

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  53. anticorruptionnz (157 comments) says:

    Good to see those crystal bowls at work or are the elections rigged ? .

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  54. dime (9,351 comments) says:

    “Ideally, there will no deal with CCCP who will get 3% of the vote and no seats. Even better would be Labour and Green voters in Epsom electing Goldsmith, and ACT getting 3% Nationwide.”

    even better would be if you manned up and got a job.

    in a perfect world winnie will get 4.87%

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  55. Chuck Bird (4,658 comments) says:

    PG if you think that John Key would not get rid of the anti-smacking law to be in government rather than opposition you know very little about NZ politics.

    There is going to be continued pressure for John Key to keep his promise that he would change the law if good parents would prosecuted for lightly smacking their children.

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  56. anticorruptionnz (157 comments) says:

    In a perfect world John Banks would have been out of his office years ago, Len brown would be in court over his election donations .

    perhaps you may not have noticed this is not a perfect world .. we live in an illusion.

    Cold hearted orb
    That rules the night
    Removes the colours
    From our sight
    Red is gray and
    Yellow white
    But we decide
    Which is right
    And
    Which is an Illusion

    those who are delusional always get it wrong.

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  57. stigie (885 comments) says:

    “Frankly I hope National lose because it will see the end of Obama’s golfing buddy JK as leader. Until they get rid of the man who called the National Party a “progressive” party they’re not going to be worth a pinch of goat excrement.”

    Sounds like you couldnt care less Reddy if National lose and it also sounds like you couldnt care less if the fucking left win ?

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  58. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Key still hush on Conservative Party deal

    Rodney MP Mark Mitchell says Conservative Leader Colin Craig is dreaming if he thinks he’ll give up his seat.

    John Key says he hadn’t seen the comment but is describing Mr Mitchell as a sensible young man.

    But that’s Rodney. What Murray might say is more pertinent.

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  59. Nigel Kearney (864 comments) says:

    No matter how concerned people are about corruption, I think few will support a candidate whose position on other major issues is unknown and will be revealed sometime after the election is over.

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  60. goldnkiwi (982 comments) says:

    anticorruptionnz (134 comments) says:

    June 12th, 2014 at 2:46 pm

    Is there lead in that crystal bowl?

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  61. OneTrack (2,559 comments) says:

    mikenmild – “‘You can trust Craig, but not Peters’
    Hah! I’m sure Key will have a much different line after the election when we are introduced to Sir Winston Peters, Co-Prime Minister.”

    So you know that Cunliffe is going to make Winston Co-Prime Minister( with Russel and Metiria ) as the price for propping up the taniwha of envy.

    It should be fun. Last one out, turn off the lights.

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  62. OneTrack (2,559 comments) says:

    Nigel – “No matter how concerned people are about corruption, I think few will support a candidate whose position on other major issues is unknown and will be revealed sometime after the election is over.”

    Surely Cunliffe will come up with firm policies soon. Or firm policies that he can take into the coalition talks, or,……

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  63. Chuck Bird (4,658 comments) says:

    @anticorruptionnz

    Grace, I believe all people are against corruption. Any corruption or perceived corruption is more noticeable for the party in power.

    John Banks has been found guilty of an offence against the Electoral Act. He may yet be found not guilty on appeal.

    How would you rate the seriousness of his offence against

    Helen Clark’s art forgery.

    David Benson-Peep’s offences against his pupils

    Dirty Darren’s – serial sexual predator – offending against a 17 year old

    Helen’s pledge card

    David Cunliffe not disclosing two of his donors – was one Dotcon?

    I am sure you will remember if the case of Clark and Benson-Peep there was found to be a prima facie case but not in the public interest to prosecute.

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  64. OneTrack (2,559 comments) says:

    Nigel – “No matter how concerned people are about corruption, I think few will support a candidate whose position on other major issues is unknown and will be revealed sometime after the election is over.”

    The DotComNoMana party seems to be getting lots of headlines already and nobody knows what any of its policies are. Apart from one.

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  65. backster (2,067 comments) says:

    Mitchell is a young man on the way up, Paula is a great campaigner, McCully is a dinosaur, to me it seems logical that he should give way to to Craig. If no deal is done with Craig I predict that National will lose the election to the lunatic left coalition.

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  66. Chuck Bird (4,658 comments) says:

    @backster

    The fact that Mitchell quickly changed his tune is evidence you are correct.

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  67. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    I loathe the way Peters operates but given the choice between him & a conservative fruitloop dead set on remaking us into the religion saturated hellhole that was NZ of the 50′s there’s only one thing to say.

    Welcome back Winston.

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  68. goldnkiwi (982 comments) says:

    I find it funny that there is such seeming abhorrence to returning to some past values, when on the other hand there is so much decrying over the lack of moral fibre now. I know which I would prefer.

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  69. wiseowl (751 comments) says:

    Just determined to denigrate CC Naskar.
    Whats your problem.?

    As has been stated before ,he is honest and genuine.Something lacking in most pollies these days.

    Davidp is also delusional with his untrue comments about CC.

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  70. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    Two points wiseowl:

    1) I don’t like the CCCP key policies…..I’m a fiscal conservative but socially liberal & for me Mr Craig has absolutely nothing to offer.

    2) You say he’s honest & genuine…..I see nothing that distinguishes him from any other political hopeful.

    A voter’s perception of political parties & candidates is subjective.

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  71. davidp (3,540 comments) says:

    wiseowl>Davidp is also delusional with his untrue comments about CC.

    My comments were mostly concerning public perception about Craig. If you’d like to list comments that you think are untrue then I’d be happy to expand on them for you. Although to start the conversation, a colleague says Craig looks like the sort of person who spends his spare time furiously wanking to downloaded porn before promoting his dated morality to the rest of us. Which is still better than the last guy who decided he wanted to start a vaguely-christian conservative-morals party, Graham Capill.

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  72. anticorruptionnz (157 comments) says:

    @Chuck Bird

    It is not for me to rate any one of them I am not a law enforcement authority . If the police were realistically funded and Lawyers weren’t over priced economics would not come into it.

    In the end it is for all to act ethically and for proper enforcement measures to be in place so that all are equal under the law.

    when we have corrupt persons in government we have a corrupt government.

    I believe our laws work well they just need to be enforced equally and evidence should be king in courts.

    I cannot roll out a raft of policies, I am but one person but if I can get a change on corruption then I will have done more than most.

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  73. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “Sounds like you couldnt care less Reddy if National lose and it also sounds like you couldnt care less if the fucking left win ?”

    Sounds like you’re a fucking idiot who deludes himself there’s some difference between National and “the left”.

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  74. goldnkiwi (982 comments) says:

    anticorruptionnz (135 comments) says:

    June 12th, 2014 at 5:10 pm

    There I suspect is your answer, it is nice that you wish to be accommodated but surely the ideal is for more than one MP to be coat tailed in and you appear to be singular so also do not come with a party vote? or would your supporters be prepared to party vote National when/if they vote for you?

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  75. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “I’m a fiscal conservative”

    There’s no such thing dickwad.

    There’s only Conservative.

    EOS.

    You’re a Progressive who has only minor differences with the Labour party over how taxes should be collected and spent.

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  76. stigie (885 comments) says:

    Well, its sounds like you are hard right Reddy and a one term idiot government !~

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  77. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    ….”There’s only Conservative.”…..

    Not really….there’s conservative as in the Tory Party of 19th Century Britain. Then there’s Colin the Crazy’s little group of madmen with no real policies at all except a tacit yet burning desire to control the morals of the nation.

    Then there’s the third subset which consists of one geriatric fool who in the fashion of megalomaniacs everywhere knows that his brand of loopiness will save us from progs & deliver us to righteousness.

    Ring the bell & get your Depends changed. :)

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  78. NK (1,060 comments) says:

    Apropos the comments about Colin Craig – I too have met him one (or twice?) and have heard him speak informally to a business breakfast. He’s not “strange” at all. He’s actually not a bad bloke. I can’t say I’d vote for him, but if it was him or Peters then, well, that’s no contest. I’d rather chew glass than vote for NZ First.

    Gee, I’ve been nice to him twice this week. Something must’ve come over me.

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  79. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “Then there’s the third subset which consists of one geriatric fool”

    I’ll bet you $5000 right now with Farrar to hold the cash that you’re older than I am.

    Are we on coward?

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  80. Colville (2,056 comments) says:

    I find it very humourous that Reddy is soo hung up on name tags.

    I dont give a flying fuck if you call National a lefty party. As long as they wont work with Wussell “the economic terrorist” Norman i will vote for National.

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  81. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    No bet…..I’m due for the National Super this year & you could be younger than me.

    Your fascination with conservatism is probably just early onset dementia. :)

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  82. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “i dont give a flying fuck if you call National a lefty party.”

    Its not a matter of name tags you sad wittering fool.

    National’s budgets are spending more and taxing more than Helen Klark.

    They’re at least as left as Clark or even more, and Key himself, in complete contempt of the Party’s founding principles, said a few weeks ago the party was “Progressive”.

    Learns some facts bimbo.

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  83. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    ….”Gee, I’ve been nice to him twice this week. Something must’ve come over me.”….

    Don’t worry NK….there probably a pill you can take for that sort of thing. :)

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  84. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “Well, its sounds like you are hard right Reddy and a one term idiot government !~”

    What it sounds like to you dimbulb is hardly anything that interests me, but if you think that asking National to stand by their founding principles makes me hard right than so be it.

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  85. stigie (885 comments) says:

    Nasska, i thought you were 43. Was going to fling DPF $100 to help you out, knowing there might be a good pissup at the end of it all.

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  86. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    I’ve been put into moderation…..what have I done? :)

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  87. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “No bet…..”

    Of course not. The smear is all that matters with you, and the more cowardly the better.

    And you wonder why I don’t like progs.

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  88. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    Posting too quickly I suspect.

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  89. Colville (2,056 comments) says:

    Baiter, let me just first off . Go take a flying fuck.

    Go back a few days a DPF tweeted a chart of projected debt under the Klarks team from ’08 and as it looks now. Even a demented dickwad such as yourself should see the slight difference, and the Klark era graph is without the small costs of ChCh rebuild.

    You just dont seem to grasp the very basic idea that in politics to make a change you need to hold the purse strings. I trust Key and Co to do the best they are able withing the bounds of staying electable. Far from perfect but better than the other choice.

    Any change in leadership involving Normam is disaster. The only question would be how big the train wreck is and how many years it would take to recover from it.

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  90. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    Nah…..it was a reply to NK. I must have triggered some key word or phrase that DPF watches for.

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  91. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    Colville, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/58/NZ_Govt_debt_1990-2011.svg/578px-NZ_Govt_debt_1990-2011.svg.png

    I say bring Norman on, as it appears that’s what its going to take to wake up jelly backed commies like you.

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  92. stigie (885 comments) says:

    That key word may have been “Conservative” Nasska ?

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  93. Colville (2,056 comments) says:

    ‘baiter

    Try this

    http://t.co/xjXC6WfAEa

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  94. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    English hasn’t got a projection right yet.

    The reality is that debt is projected to grow to pretty close to $100 billion in the next decade or so.

    And even if your chart is correct so what? The debt is still far too great for what NZ should be carrying with $6 billion pa going in interest repayments on the $75 billion we’re carrying now. Imagine where that could be spent if National weren’t propping up Labour’s public service and welfare system?

    You’re just besotted with John Key, just as a few years ago you were besotted with Helen Klark.

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  95. stigie (885 comments) says:

    “You’re just besotted with John Key, just as a few years ago you were besotted with Helen Klark”

    Thats right Reddy, we were all in love with that sweet face of Helen Klark !~

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  96. duggledog (1,331 comments) says:

    But back to the thread.

    I’m one of those voters who doesn’t vote for the candidate who has a Cheeky Devilish Smile (Peters), or The Gift Of The Gab (Lange). I still think Obama got elected pretty much because he was articulate, had a great slogan, and was black. Nothing more than that.

    I cast my vote on policy and whether I think the candidate has the goods to deliver that policy and whether that policy is suitable for the times.

    I care not one light brown shit about what Colin Craig believes regarding religion, flying saucers or chem trails. I do not care if he wears panties in the moonlight. Because of where I live I, (and quite a few others I know) will probably party vote Conservative depending on what it’s looking like closer to the election. If he can reduce government by just a bit or stop the Waitangi gravy train or piss Sue Bradford off then all good.

    To retain ownership of the centre, National cannot do ‘the dirty work’ or return to what Red would call their founding principles because it is 2014 now and clearly a lot of people are a bit daft. So all I can do is try and put a bit of steel in their spine with my vote.

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  97. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    What is there not to love about her stigie? :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sgiwdqqc29r5xag/clarke-and-bush.jpg

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  98. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    Reddy’s a little bit right. National are scarcely distinguishable from their Labour predecessors, having adopted all their policies. Reddy is wrong in thinking that’s a bad thing though. The last thing this country needs is a burst of radical change from left or right.

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  99. eszett (2,331 comments) says:

    And even if your chart is correct so what?

    I guess that sums Red’s position.
    Even if your chart and facts are correct, Colville, he is still right and you are wrong.

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  100. Colville (2,056 comments) says:

    ‘baiter
    You are utterly fucked in the head and I really cant be bothered.
    Key could have binned WWF in ’10 and been out on his arse in ’11.
    Yippee big win that.

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  101. Colville (2,056 comments) says:

    eszett,

    The great thing about that chart is that the red line has no inclusion for ChCh. Add that in and the rise woudl be near verticle.

    Nats have done a pretty fine job considering the shit sandwhich they were handed.

    *typing sucks, codine kicking in, yippee :-) *

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  102. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    FFS, you guys are so pathetic.

    Look at the two charts you moron.

    In Colvilles chart the debt in 2023 is only back to where it was in 2011 which is still at $40 billion for overseas debt plus about $15 billion for other debt. $65 billion is still far too much.

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  103. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    Treasury project a debt in excess of $95 billion by 2015.

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  104. adze (1,855 comments) says:

    @naaska

    In terms of preference, the Taliban would be a close second to Winston. He really is the pits.

    I think Craig is a bit odd but I’d give him the benefit of the doubt in a heartbeat over the former.

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  105. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “You are utterly fucked in the head and I really cant be bothered.”

    You and Key are both losers, with Key’s biggest defect his ambition to remain popular rather than lead.

    Tony Abbot and Nigel Farage are two politicians who in their commitment to leadership rather than popularity make Key’s incompetence especially stark.

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  106. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    I’d much prefer and trust Craig over Peters too, but he’s got a lot to learn about politics.

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  107. RRM (9,414 comments) says:

    We could debate the fortunes of a hypothetical right-wing government on here all night, but REALLY…. unless someone with the balls to form one steps up and do it, we really are just playing with ourselves, aren’t we?

    And it will never happen, all 6 New Zealanders who would support a hard right government are too busy whinging on here to ever do anything about realising their fantasies.

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  108. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “he’s got a lot to learn about politics.”

    Not from you, that’s for sure.

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  109. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    “And it will never happen,”

    Exactly what the know it all status quo losers said about UKIP.

    Exactly what the Republican RINOs said about Eric Cantor losing his seat.

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  110. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    How do you think the UKIP will go in the real election next year, Reddy? How many seats at Westminster do they hold at present?

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  111. RRM (9,414 comments) says:

    I’m not saying the CCCP doesn’t have support.

    I’m saying the CCCP won’t lead a National Govt to the right wing, someone like yourself would have to assume control of the Nats… and THAT’S not going to happen.

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  112. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    The point is Milky that people like you & Colville and PG and Narsekissa & RRM and Labour & Lib Dems & David Cameron were yelling your heads of telling people not to vote for UKIP, (in Council and EU elections) because they were racists and swivel eyed loons and “crazy” (yeah, always that one) and the electorate told you to Get Fucked.

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  113. mikenmild (10,595 comments) says:

    Not willing to hazard a guess then?

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  114. Pete George (22,713 comments) says:

    Even by Red’s standards that’s an odd claim. I’m sure the electorate who voted for UKIP couldn’t care less about what anyone says on an NZ blog.

    I haven’t yelled or even whispered about UKIP, this is the first time I’ve referred to them. Must be blanket abuse time of night. Hot toddy time soon I guess.

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  115. davidp (3,540 comments) says:

    RRM>I’m saying the CCCP won’t lead a National Govt to the right wing, someone like yourself would have to assume control of the Nats… and THAT’S not going to happen.

    The Conservatives aren’t right wing. They were opposed to asset sales. They’re just another party with populist economic policies and authoritarian social policies, and we already have NZ First for that.

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  116. nasska (10,606 comments) says:

    Face facts…..the CCCP are just another attempt by the religious nutters to force their Godsodden crap onto the rest of us. In 2011 most if not all of the top ten slots were held by Kiwi Party & New Citizen Party failures offering themselves for recycling.

    They are getting desperate…..Colin the Crazy has been coached not to breathe a word about religion as to not spook the punters who are very wary of Godwhacks after Graham Capill’s disgrace.

    Wait until the CCCP list is announced. The proof will be there for all to see.

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  117. kowtow (7,579 comments) says:

    Hmmmm…..

    “nutters.Godsodden crap.Crazy.Godwhacks.failures.desperate.spook.”

    All that in 5 sentences.

    I reckon nasska’s the desperate nutter.

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  118. Redbaiter (7,521 comments) says:

    His endless & tiresome obsession with Christianity showed that long ago.

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  119. wiseowl (751 comments) says:

    Well big announcement due in the UK tomorrow with the practice of ‘rigging’ at the 4pm fix about to be tackled.

    Appears the banksters are to be confronted at last.

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  120. goldnkiwi (982 comments) says:

    Can someone explain to me why less secularism and more Christianity (if that is in fact fact with the Conservative Party) is a bad thing in government when there is hysteria regarding Muslims? All my children if asked, have a religion, I always thought that better than there being a religious void.

    Surely if there is religious education in schools as on example and by that I do mean Christian then surely a religious take over is less likely?

    The greater sense of western identity we have the better imo.

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  121. Harriet (4,495 comments) says:

    “….Can someone explain to me why less secularism and more Christianity…..is a bad thing in government when there is hysteria regarding Muslims?….The greater sense of western identity we have the better imo…”

    Yep.

    The west was built with Christianity underpining it and supporting it at all levels, as a greater proportion of people were Christian over that period of time. Most people were on the same page. Therefor it is Christianity that stood against Islam ALL of that time – and virtually no muslim immigrated to the west – only in the last 3 decades have they – and right when Christianity is on it’s knees. The West WAS Christianity, and Christianity [which includes the importance of government, laws & democracy] is the only thing that can stand against Islam again.

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  122. Dead Earnest (88 comments) says:

    Red said “Key’s biggest defect his ambition to remain popular rather than lead”
    Sadly Red, in a democracy if you don’t remain popular you don’t lead!

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  123. ShawnLH (3,162 comments) says:

    “Face facts”

    Naaska talking about “facing facts” is hilarious from the get go! :)

    “…..the CCCP are just another attempt by the religious nutters to force their Godsodden crap onto the rest of us.”

    It’s called democracy Naaska. One could just as easily say that atheistnutters like you are trying to force their Nihilistsodden crap onto us.

    “They are getting desperate…..”

    The only person sounding desperate is you.

    ““nutters.Godsodden crap.Crazy.Godwhacks.failures.desperate.spook.”

    All that in 5 sentences.

    I reckon nasska’s the desperate nutter.”

    Yup. Naaska’s not playing with a full deck, so he substitutes debating points or logic with streams of this kind of psychologically suspect ranting and name calling.

    I say psychologically suspect for a good reason. Anyone who has the kind of emotional energy on display in his rants, using words like “nutters.Godsodden crap.Crazy.Godwhacks” is clearly not dealing with some deep rooted personal issues and instead projecting them onto another person or group, in his case Christians, rather than just man up and get some help.

    Sad really, but pointless trying to rationally debate with someone in this state of mind.

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  124. RRM (9,414 comments) says:

    The west was built with Christianity underpining it and supporting it ruling over it and controlling it through fear at all levels, as a greater proportion of people were Christian over that period of time.

    Fixed that for you.

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  125. itstricky (1,529 comments) says:

    Paul Henry gave Craig the what-for on this subject last night. I look forward to the denunciation of “another left-wing media beat up”

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  126. itstricky (1,529 comments) says:

    And Christianity [which includes the importance of government, laws & democracy] is the only thing that can stand against Islam again.

    Good God (scuse the pun) is that The Crusaders’ call to arms? Is there a secret underground society of them somewhere? I think you just backed up RRM’s correction.

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  127. deadrightkev (273 comments) says:

    “You can trust Craig, but not Peters.”

    That is absolutely correct and anyone that believes Peters is an option should never forget it.

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