General Debate 19 July 2014

July 19th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
Tags:

215 Responses to “General Debate 19 July 2014”

  1. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    Martyn Bradbury has masterminded a plan so cunning and so effective that polls and policies are irrelevant to this election. Everything is organised so the outcome of the election is inevitable no matter what anyone else tries to do.

    Martyn was instrumental in setting up the Mana Party. He was instrumental in setting up the Internet Party. He engineered that planting of Matt McCarten in Cunliffe’s coterie and into the middle of Labour’s campaign team.

    He was the brains behind the Mana-Internet Party merge for the election. He was right behind installing Laila Harre as leader of the Internet Party.

    And Martyn is the communications guru for the New Auckland Left agenda, with central command being his The Daily Blog. He converted Chris Trotter from left wing columnist to his left hand man.

    Ok, some of this could be a tad exaggerated, but Martyn is not shy of blowing his own trumpet and he has been unable to resist bragging along these lines.

    And in a blog post this week he couldn’t resist broadcasting the culmination of his masterminded plan. This is quoted verbatim, no embellishment is required.

    Why the polls, policy & smears now don’t matter until after 7pm September 15th 2014

    There are so many twists and turns to come until the 15th, that I can not imagine that the entire Nation’s attention won’t be on the Town Hall at 7pm.

    Martyn really was closely involved in the anti-GCSB protest meeting at the Auckland Town Hall last year. To remind everyone of his triumph he includes a picture of it.

    Couple of polls out today, Roy Morgan and the stuff.co.nz/Ipsos Polls – and they don’t matter.

    John Key could announce tax cuts from a live press conference in Hawaii, and it wouldn’t matter.

    David Cunliffe could be mocked on ZB by Mike Hosking for 10 hours straight. And it wouldn’t matter.

    All that matters now is 7pm Monday 15th at the Auckland Town Hall.

    The beauty of what Kim, Internet MANA and those fighting the mass surveillance state have generated here for the price of just hiring out the Town Hall is the entire nations attention and total dominance of the election campaign.

    Journalists like Duncan Garner, Vernon Small and Guyon Espiner have been highly critical that Kim doesn’t reveal the evidence linking Key to a conspiracy to collude with the US to entrap him right now so that they can decide if the evidence stacks up. This point ignores that throughout this case the Government have broken law, acted outside the rules and have been manipulating this process with ‘political pressure’ from the very beginning and Kim has every right to counter that by releasing the information when it’s going to be most damaging to Key.

    5 days out from the 2014 election is the time that would be most damaging to Key.

    There are so many twists and turns to come until the 15th, that I can not imagine that the entire Nation’s attention won’t be on the Town Hall at 7pm.

    Laila Harre’s comments that Kim wouldn’t be allowed in have been seized upon as a giant awkward moment between the two. I think that’s a terrible misreading of why she said that.

    The meeting will be live streamed on The Daily Blog.

    Five days out from the 2014 election is the time that would be most damaging to Key. Not four and a half days. Not six days. This is how pin point Martyn’s planning has been.

    We might as well forget the election campaign and ignore all the other parties. The outcome of the election rests on the Kim and Martyn show on September 15. Trust Kim. Trust Martyn. We will have to get used to trusting them, they will be the brains and the management behind our next government.

    Neither of them are standing for Parliament but don’t worry about small details like that.

    What Martyn doesn’t explain is that if everyone ignores polls and policies and smears and parties and campaigning then how will they know who to vote for?

    Bradbury doesn’t hint that he knows what Dotocm will reveal, which based on his usual keenness to brag about what he knows probably means he doesn’t know. But he knows that September 15 is the BIG THING and nothing else is relevant to the election. Trust or bluster?

    Even if what Dotcom reveals on September 15, something so secret that he hasn’t shared the information with his party leader Harre, even if Dotcom blows Key out of the election, how will voters know who to vote for?

    Will September 15 be so decisively dramatic that no one will vote? That’s not going to happen, although Martyn’s farcical circus is likely to disillusion more voters and reduce the turnout.

    Or everyone will have a revelation and vote for the brilliance of Kim and Martyn? Ok, for Laila and Hone but we know they are just useful tools in this grand plan.

    All eyes will be on Dotcom and The Daily Blog to see hints drip fed.

    Or voters will not stand for this personal crusade of Dotcom, nor for the Bradbury bull.

    Even if Key and National are seriously compromised it’s likely most of the voters won’t look kindly on the hijacking of our democracy.

    A collapse in voter turnout and an election lottery is possible. I wonder if Martyn has bought a ticket. That might be his best hope on September 20.

    Martyn seems to think he has masterminded a dead certain election result.

    But remember that he masterminded a grand left wing co-operative for the election, and that was quickly dashed when Labour made it clear they would have nothing to do with it, and Greens had already recognised the dangers in a Dotcom led political revolution.

    It has been suggested that the September 15 town hall meeting will be a bomb shell. Martyn would like it seen as a Bomber shellacking of John Key – but we’ve seen Bradbury flops before.

    Martyn’s master of his own mind but his left wing revolution may be spinning in his head.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. SGA (1,076 comments) says:

    Heavens Pete. That’s far too long, and curiously both too detailed and too vague, for first thing on a Saturday morning. The coffee hasn’t kicked in yet.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. HB (323 comments) says:

    this undecided voter found it interesting Pete!

    currently thinking of National as my party vote but I don’t know enough about local candidates for my other vote. I’m pretty sure my mind won’t be 100% made up until I’m actually in the voting booth. To be honest, no one is really inspiring my confidence. National has seemed like the best of a bad bunch lately but it will be interesting seeing what KDC has to say on the 15th.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    What electorate are you in HB, someone here would be more than happy to furnish you with an executive summary of your options.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. Harriet (4,990 comments) says:

    Dotcrap has nothing to lose by telling a whopping big lie – and Bradbury knows it – that’s why he is bragging that he’ll fuck Key 5 days out from the election.

    I don’t think people would give a fuck what Key has done where Dotcrap is concerned. Most people find him repulsive.

    At worst National will lose a few thousand party votes.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 24 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. HB (323 comments) says:

    I am Tukituki (I live in the Hastings area).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candidates_in_the_New_Zealand_general_election_2014_by_electorate#Tukituki

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Longknives (4,767 comments) says:

    Rory McIlroy on fire at the British Open..
    Maybe getting rid of the hot Danish ‘Distraction’ has worked wonders for his game?

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    For goodness sake, Marten Bradbury is a one time Ak Uni student newspaper editor who gained ‘notoriety’ by writing a nasty little article about how to commit suicide. He then did a shit TV show nobody remembers then went on to do a show on a crap radio station that also failed. I don’t know if he’s ever travelled, run any kind of business save his low-rent blog, or had kids or anything that would give him one iota of credence in 99% of NZers eyes. He’s also living in some kind of fantasy world reckoning there will be some kind of Reckoning or Revolution; there won’t. NZ will never go back to those days. What a laugh. What a goose. His price was a laptop, guffaw.

    EVEN if Dot Cock has actual video of John Key lying about him, it’s not going to bring the house down, nobody’s going to change their minds – all it will do is lose National a few votes. People are sick to death of the German; even if the government has bent the rules to get rid of the fat prick or set him up most people will approve of that myself included!

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    duggledog (1,313 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 8:34 am

    He’s also living in some kind of fantasy world reckoning there will be some kind of Reckoning or Revolution; there won’t. NZ will never go back to those days.

    Yeah, because everything is AWESOME

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Nukuleka (335 comments) says:

    I agree with Harriet that no one much gives a toss about what Dotcom may or may not have loaded into his ‘smoking gun’. Most folk just don’t care. Those who are holding their collective breaths to witness the demise of the National Government as a result of the upcoming ‘revelations’ are already part of The Standard ‘Key is a liar’ brigade. The rest of us are already yawning.

    It perhaps says something about the lack of colour in our national life that we are so mesmerised (or at least the media give the impression that we are) by such an unappealing slug as Mr Dotcom.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. CHFR (229 comments) says:

    Martyn Bradbury the Citizen Smith of New Zealand politics.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    The only ones paying attention to the fat slug are useless lefties who think he can trip JK up. News for them, wait till Whale brings in his B52s, the left will be like Hamas . . . stuffed!

    Vote: Thumb up 20 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. Paulus (2,633 comments) says:

    I read that the Treaty Tribunal has upheld the Motiti Island Iwi (all 76 of them, and many do not live there) that the Rena has to be totally removed and that they were not consulted enough.
    They say that they have not been consulted, yet why should they feel that they have been left out of the almost 1000 consultations re the Rena Removal.
    They have already been paid substantial sums, but of course they want more, more, more.
    The sooner we get rid of the Waitangi tribunal the better.
    How could anybody believe that the Tribunal could be impartial is a laugh.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 26 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. FeralScrote (220 comments) says:

    Anything Dotcom has to say will only reinforce my vote against him.
    He could post video JK and Barry discussing himself in the Oval office and I could not give less of a shit.
    The sooner this disgusting piece of slime is removed from our shores the better,maybe Cuba would welcome him ,their system seems more conducive to his type of mentality.

    Vote: Thumb up 18 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Maggy Wassilieff (413 comments) says:

    @ PG… such an extravagant deconstruction of the Daily Blog article….. Its become the Annual Blog as far as I’m concerned. I might check in 2015 to see if it still exists. Bradbury needs to take a few lessons in how to communicate clearly and concisely, if he wants any one to persist in visiting his site.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. Keeping Stock (10,342 comments) says:

    What Bradbury ignores is the fact that advance and overseas voting begins on Wednesday 5th September. If Dotcom has information that is so crucial to New Zealand that it will bring about a change of government, he should release it now, or at the very least before the first vote is cast. It is grossly irresponsible of Dotcom to allow votes to be cast before his “big reveal”.

    If he’s got the information he claims, he should table it now. If not, he should shut his gob.

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 28 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    Matthew Hooton gives the Conservatives the message:

    In a thinly-veiled message to the party, Hooton said the Prime Minister would not “knife” McCully for anything less than a three per cent party vote from the Conservatives.

    “I’m told National has done some research and polling on this matter, and it reckons it would lose a couple of per cent of the party vote if Key pulled McCully and endorsed Craig.”

    “If he’s going to knife McCully, and assuming he was to survive having done so, John Key needs to know that you’re going to bring in at least three per cent.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10286811/PM-won-t-knife-McCully-for-less-than-three-per-cent

    Who is Hooton being a messenger for?

    I wouldn’t rely on a 2% hit to National for gifting Craig a seat. People being polled months before the election may feel differently to voters facing the options and the ballot box.

    This will potentially be the most volatile election ever, with Labour’s weak leadership and self interested MPs, the Dotcom circus, Winston Peters needing to get more over the top to be heard, ditto Craig (Peters has accused him of policy plagiarism) etc.

    More voters than ever are likely to have had a guts full and vote unpredictably or not vote at all in record numbers.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    igm (1,400 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 8:54 am

    News for them, wait till Whale brings in his B52s, the left will be like Hamas . . . stuffed!

    Cameron Slater is a creepy perv.!

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 5 Thumb down 20 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Has Putin finally dug himself an international hole he won’t be able to climb out of?

    Good to see more Russia Today staff quitting over the propaganda they are being told to spread.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    A request to the MSM.

    When stating how many people in Gaza have been killed please actually be factual and correct by splitting out actual civilians from combatants. As terrorists don’t ever tell the truth and don’t wear uniforms then just state total casualties and number of them who were males over 16 as it’s highly likely the last group were all Hamas.

    Also please explain why Israeli parents (both Jews and Arabs) keep their children away from combat areas and in air raid shelters but parents in Gaza encourage their children to play near rocket launcher sites.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    How conservative are the Conservatives? NZ Herald: Conservatives butt heads with NZ First over lookalike policies

    The Conservatives have begun laying their election platform in a series of billboards and leaflet drops over the past month.

    A few of their priorities so closely resembled New Zealand First’s manifesto that leader Winston Peters said they appeared to be stolen.

    “Plagiarism is what you’re talking about. He’s not got similar policies, he’s trawled through our stuff and tried to present it as being his own.”

    Both parties want to end asset sales, stop the sale of farmland to foreigners…

    How conservative/right wing are the Conservatives?

    Mr Craig told the Weekend Herald it was inevitable some of their policies would be similar because they were both competing for a similar pool of centrist voters.

    Ah, they are centrist conservatives.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Lucia Maria (2,474 comments) says:

    Southern Raider,

    Quite possibly, though the danger is that he may be rolled for not being aggressive enough and replaced by someone who is. That’s the impression I get from this opinion piece from The Moscow Times:

    Putin faces real danger from hawkish nationalists if he appears to stand by while the Ukrainian military crushes the rebels in the east. After multiple promises to protect ethnic Russians wherever they are threatened, Putin will, at the very least, look weak if he does nothing.

    Indeed, we are already seeing a backlash against Putin from Russia’s hawks. Leading Russian nationalist Maxim Kalashnikov wrote in a recent essay that “the Kremlin has lost control over the process” and that “the rising in Donbass could grow into a Russian rising.” Kalashnikov went on to add that if the rebels suffer a final defeat in eastern Ukraine, they could sweep into southern Russia, join forces with regular Russian army units and march on Moscow to “settle scores with the traitors” in the Kremlin.

    Kalashnikov is not the only anti-Western hawk who may turn on Putin. Leading nationalist ideologue Alexander Dugin also made veiled criticisms of Putin’s handling of the Ukrainian crisis on a leading Russian talk show, saying “We gave them hope. When we said we are a united Russian civilization, this didn’t just come from a few patriotic forces. It came from the president!”

    Even Putin’s inner circle has spoken out, as his economic adviser, Sergei Glazyev, has argued for sending Russian jets to the skies of eastern Ukraine to protect the rebels from government air strikes.

    Although the scenario of angry ex-rebels and disgruntled Russian military units marching on Moscow is unlikely, several months of heated rhetoric directed at both the West and Ukraine’s new government now makes it extremely difficult for Putin to retreat without substantially eroding his power.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Good article in the Herald on Don Devitt. This should be compulsory reading for anyone considering voting hard left.

    My uncle worked on the BNZ House project and has horror stories over what the Boilermaker Union did.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. oldpark (339 comments) says:

    Heard a rumour doing the rounds.On the 15th September the day the german convicted criminal or crook as some people call him.Other than Schmidz/Dotcon.His damp squib announcement on our man for all reasons and seasons John Key.The day after the Nats will re lease a guided missile onto the german crook who lied his way into NZ.An order for deportation out of NZ effective immediately.Reasons he hid his convicted criminal past to get into NZ.The Australian commie called Russel Norman from greens will protest ,because that would upset the alleged sweetheart deal he and his party did with dotcom after many visits to the rented mansion.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    Yoza or is it Phil U

    Just out of interest, where is better than NZ just now? Keen to hear anywhere in the world you would rather go, where you would have this much space, clean-ish environment, opportunity and access to other people’s money?

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    Reasons he hid his convicted criminal past to get into NZ.

    Immigration NZ say that Dotcom disclosed his past convictions to them but they considered they were long enough ago not to be significant.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Southern Raider (1,502 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 9:11 am

    A request to the MSM.

    When stating how many people in Gaza have been killed please actually be factual and correct by splitting out actual civilians from combatants. As terrorists don’t ever tell the truth and don’t wear uniforms then just state total casualties and number of them who were males over 16 as it’s highly likely the last group were all Hamas.

    Also please explain why Israeli parents (both Jews and Arabs) keep their children away from combat areas and in air raid shelters but parents in Gaza encourage their children to play near rocket launcher sites.

    Gaza is an open air prison camp, all of the inmates are designated terrorists by Israel. So they can happily say they were targeting terrorists when the IDF kill four kids playing football on a beach.

    The main stream media has so successfully supported Israel’s onslaught against the Palestinians that the very word ‘Palestinian’ has become synonymous with the word ‘terrorist’. Although, as with the likes of apartheid South Africa, grass-roots activists are getting more and more opportunities to present the reality on the ground as it occurs which tends to make a mockery of the western corporate media narrative.

    Your whining is meaningless as the mainstream media outlets must at least give the appearance of reporting events accurately while they support the narrative of white settler colonialism having greater legitimacy than the occupying rights of darker skinned indigenous people.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 19 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. wiseowl (899 comments) says:

    HB.
    Foss has done nothing for Hawkes Bay except parrot on about rugby .
    He is another ex foreign exchange dealer that has little understanding how the real economy works.

    You have a very good Conservative Party candidate over there in the Bay.
    Have a talk to him sometime.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. oldpark (339 comments) says:

    @PG He hid his 2003 convictions.Check out his Hong Kong indictments.He did not even qualify under the so called seven year clean slate LEGISLATION.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. stephieboy (3,169 comments) says:

    Southern Raider, though younger at the time I do recall the anarchy on the construction site. The aftermath ,all new high rises were to be built with reinforced concrete rather than steel super structure.

    I think we still not faced the truth how the militant tendency then within the Trade union movement did considerable damage to the national economy with this type of industrial vandalism.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. OneTrack (3,121 comments) says:

    Southern Raider – “This should be compulsory reading for anyone considering voting hard left.”

    You mean anyone considering voting Labour 2014.

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    Head of Immigration NZ Nigel Bickle:

    Bickle said Dotcom’s convictions were nine and 11 years in the past and had been ‘‘clean-slated’’ and INZ only knew about them because Dotcom had disclosed them to it.

    http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10267420/Immigration-boss-rejects-Dotcom-residency-claims

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. Pharmachick (235 comments) says:

    @duggledog …

    Canada doesn’t suck ;-)

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. OneTrack (3,121 comments) says:

    Yoza

    If the people in Gaza stopped firing rockets into Israel, you might just see Israel willing to relax the import restrictions they have in place to stop rockets being imported from Iran. If the people in Gaza stopped crowding children around rocket launch sites, then there wouldn’t be the issues of innocents getting killed.

    You called Gaza a prison camp. That’s only because thats what the Gaza people and the Egyptians apparently want.

    Stop firing the rockets. Problem solved. It is as simple as that.

    Vote: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. Nookin (3,361 comments) says:

    Here is another reminder why we need to look closely at syrupy, self-serving interviews conducted when the other side of the side cannot be presented.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10285596/Kiwi-terror-suspect-joins-Syrian-conflict

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. OneTrack (3,121 comments) says:

    duggledog – “…and access to other people’s money?”

    I think Phil wants MORE access to other people’s money – more meaning all of it. It’s the 21st century version of Oliver Twist. This time Oliver is insatiable.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. stephieboy (3,169 comments) says:

    Yoza, you deliberately choose to fail to understand the nature of the current Gaza conflict. A key Hamas strategy is to use their population ,especially women and children, as human shields. They for example do not provide air raid or bomb shelters for the civilian population . The fact they store munition ordinances at Mosques etc , in built up areas and fire rockets from school grounds is legend.

    Yet their strategy is partially successful exploiting Western Liberal / left guilt and gullibility, like especially, yours .!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-kohn/operation-human-shield_b_157837.html

    and here etc,

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mitchell-bard/video-reveals-that-a-lack_b_156565.html

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    Yoza

    I have another question for you. Putting aside the history between Israel / Palestine, which is complicated and involves atrocities on both sides, and is emotional and has many grey areas; if you found yourself in a situation in 2014 where you were surrounded by enemies who want you dead, end of story, would you

    A: Fight, after trying and trying to achieve some kind of peace or
    B: Roll over and capitulate even though you’ve got nowhere in the world to go.

    I’d say B. Hamas. The Palestinians remind me of a silly little boy poking an inland taipan with a stick even after being told they have enough venom to kill 100 men.

    Hamas’ promises to wreak terrible vengeance on the Israelis after getting their arses kicked yet again will amount to nothing more than cowardly attacks achieved by skulking around in the usual way. F*** em. I’ve got no particular love for the Israelis but… what did they expect?

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. oldpark (339 comments) says:

    @PG 9.45.Records show he made application in 2008 ,just 5 years after his 2003 CONVICTIONS FOR INSIDER TRADING AND MONEY LAUNDERING.What part of the stated dates don’t you understand.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Yoza how is it a prison camp. How many prison camps do you know of that are allowed to self govern, operate businesses and have one of the highest breeding rates in the world?

    Re the four kids killed on the beach. Absolutely terrible, but
    – what were they doing on the beach
    – what was actually nearby which we haven’t been told about
    – collateral damage is unfortunately what happens when terrorists use human shields

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. duggledog (1,559 comments) says:

    No Pharmachick you are right, Canada is a great country – but I still prefer NZ. Warmer where I live and further away from the U.S.!

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. gravedodger (1,566 comments) says:

    @ Southern Raider, 9 19, not being pedantic but his Name was ‘Con’ far more accurate than karma could produce.

    His passing will not be lamented by me, just another from “the old country” who wrought destruction to his adopted country and countless minions who he manipulated into keeping him in a manner he reveled in.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. Pete George (23,602 comments) says:

    A very cunning play by Winston Peters, threatening to stand in East Coast Bays if National pull McCully. If nothing else that would guarantee it would be a media circus, and that will hit National.

    It’s unlikely Peters will actually stand but it could effectively rule out National doing Craig a favour due to the even greater risks involved.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    OneTrack (2,546 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 9:48 am

    Yoza

    If the people in Gaza stopped firing rockets into Israel, …

    The invasion of Palestine and the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population preceded the rockets. If 1.8 million Jews were herded into a concentration camp the size of Gaza and murdered at will by their captors no one would question their right to fight back, why should it be different for the Palestinians?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Maggy Wassilieff (413 comments) says:

    I know I’m a slow learner and am apt to repeat my mistakes,…
    I’ve just gone on to Stuff.co to check out their report on “Weather outlook, we’re warming up”…
    clicked on the link and it says “page not found”
    Does any one work at Stuff in the weekend?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    duggledog (1,320 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 9:59 am

    … if you found yourself in a situation in 2014 where you were surrounded by enemies who want you dead, end of story, would you

    A: Fight, after trying and trying to achieve some kind of peace or
    B: Roll over and capitulate even though you’ve got nowhere in the world to go.

    I’d say B.

    Why don’t I find that difficult to believe?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. Fletch (6,410 comments) says:

    Gaza is an open air prison camp

    One with luxury resorts, 5-star hotels, shopping malls and an Olympic sized swimming pool (report is from 2010)

    What they won’t tell you about are the fancy new restaurants and swimming pools of Gaza, or about the wind surfing competitions on Gaza beaches, or the Strip’s crowded shops and markets. Many Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza live a middle class (and in some cases an upper class) lifestyle that western journalists refuse to report on because it doesn’t fit with the simplistic story they were sent to write.

    Here, courtesy of the Palestinian Ma’an news agency, is a report on Gaza’s new Olympic-sized swimming pool . (Most Israeli towns don’t have Olympic-size swimming pools. One wonders how an area that claims to be starved of water and building materials and depends on humanitarian aid builds an Olympic size swimming pool and creates a luxury lifestyle for some while others are forced to live in abject poverty as political pawn refugees?)

    If you pop into the Roots Club in Gaza, according to the Lonely Planet guidebook, you can “dine on steak au poivre and chicken cordon bleu”.

    The restaurant’s website in Arabic gives a window into middle class dining and the lifestyle of Hamas officials in Gaza. And here it is in English, for all the journalists, UN types and NGO staff who regularly frequent this and other nice Gaza restaurants (but don’t tell their readers about them).

    And here is a promotional video of the club restaurant . In case anyone doubts the authenticity of this video, I just called the club in Gaza City and had a nice chat with the manager who proudly confirmed business is booming and many Palestinians and international guests are dining there.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/media-blog/56010/fancy-restaurants-and-olympic-size-swim-pools-what-media-won-t-report-about-gaza/to

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Southern Raider (1,504 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 10:03 am

    Re the four kids killed on the beach. Absolutely terrible, but
    – what were they doing on the beach
    – what was actually nearby which we haven’t been told about

    -Playing football and hide ‘n’ seek.
    -Shacks housing the fishing boats of their family.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 10 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. SPC (5,644 comments) says:

    Fletch, I will not like myself after this post. There was a swimming pool and an orchestra at one camp in Poland.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. Fletch (6,410 comments) says:

    “Pallywood” returns to Gaza – using images from the war in Syria and Iraq etc (some two years old), and passing them off as being from the current conflict in Gaza.

    http://pamelageller.com/2014/07/pallywood-true-horror-story.html/

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    lol at the shonkey fanbois having a little cry because dotcom bribed … oops, I mean lied, … his way into the country!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Fletch (6,410 comments) says:

    Southern Raider @ at 10:03 am

    I agree. I can’t see Israel indiscriminately killing kids on a beach. There’s something else going on there. If it was such a big story then why did NBC hurriedly whisk the reporter who covered the story out of there? The reporter, Mohyeldin, is “an Egyptian-American with extensive experience reporting on that region”.

    Israel goes out their way to drop leaflets and phone targets telling people to get out before it drops bombs.

    I just don’t buy the story, and I’m betting the truth will yet come out.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    I saw a spokesman for the IDF on the telly explaining that Hamas have no concern for innocent lives. One can only marvel at the level of psychopathy it must take to make such a statement while keeping a straight face!!

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. SGA (1,076 comments) says:

    Headline from Stuff

    The faces of flight MH17
    As investigators search for clues, the 298 crash victims are being revealed. We have live updates.

    I must be getting old. “We have live updates” makes it sound as though the World Cup is still running.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    Barack Obama and Gordon Brown announce New World Order

    Obama DHS Prepares For Civil War Civil unrest coming to America.

    Dept of Homeland Security buys 1.4 billions rounds of ammunition.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  56. publicwatchdog (2,626 comments) says:

    FYI Kiwibloggers.

    This is where I will be at 2pm today – calling for this John Key led National Government to uphold International Law – not Israeli State TERRORISM against Palestinian people in Gaza:
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________

    When: 2PM Saturday 19th
    Where: Starting at Aotea square.
    What: Mass March in solidarity with Palestine STARTS AT AOTEA SQ to END outside US consulate.

    Rally against the ongoing assault on the Palestinian people. We will doing something symbolic to commemorate the victims of Israeli brutality at the US consulate- a gesture that will do little to ease the hearts and minds of grieving families of sons, daughters, brothers, mothers and sisters who will never see Eid. However, let us acknowledge the dead our news channels continue to dehumanise.

    Please also bring placards, banners etc and share.

    Why?

    Because Israel’s disproportionate violence is not inevitable or accidental. It has happened in a broader political context of ongoing siege, occupation, colonisation, mass-incarceration, subjugation, apartheid and ethnic cleansing in Palestine. The worlds eyes are on the region now, but a child has died on average every 3 days at the hands of Israel between 2000-2013, we demand justice, equality and freedom for ALL the victims of Israeli aggression who suffer under its weight, walls, checkpoints, settlements and watchtowers every single day.

    Protests are being organized in cities around the world to respond to the ongoing assault on Palestine and the Palestinian people, including the murders of Palestinians (including 16-year-old Muhammad Abu Khdeir, murdered brutally by Israeli settlers), the bombing of Gaza and the killing of over 50 Palestinians by occupation forces, the mass arrests of over 900, and the raids, attacks, tear-gassing, invasions and closure that Palestinians are being subjected to. http://samidoun.ca/2014/07/take-action-protests-around-the-world-respond-to-assault-on-palestine/

    Wellington action: https://www.facebook.com/events/1445924692327106/

    Important note:
    Taken from a Palestinian statement:

    “A key principle of our movement for freedom, justice, and equality: The struggle for our inalienable rights is one opposed to all forms of racism and bigotry, including, but not limited to, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Zionism, and other forms of bigotry directed at anyone, and in particular people of color and indigenous peoples everywhere.

    We oppose the cynical and baseless use of the term anti-Semitism as a tool for stifling criticism of Israel or opposition to Zionism, as this assumes simply because someone is Jewish, they support Zionism or the colonial and apartheid policies of the state of Israel – a false generalization.

    Our struggle is anchored in universal human rights and international law in opposition to military occupation, settler-colonialism, and apartheid, something people of conscience of all ethnicities, races, and religions can support.

    Finally, we call on people around the world to join us in a morally consistent stance that opposes racism and bigotry in all forms. An ethical struggle for justice and equal rights in any context entails zero tolerance for racial discrimination and racism anywhere.”

    That means zero tolerance for racism and hate speech at this event :)

    This event is organised by:

    Palestine Human Rights Campaign – http://palestine.org.nz/phrc/index.php
    Global Peace and Justice Auckland – http://gpjanz.wordpress.com/
    Kia ora Gaza- http://kiaoragaza.net/
    Students for Justice in Palestine- http://uoasjp.wordpress.com/

    _________________________________________________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright

    Hot debate. What do you think? Thumb up 3 Thumb down 23 You need to be logged in to vote
  57. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ wikiriwhis business (3,859 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 11:20 am

    So we’re forgetting about democracy now are we – and going for domination?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  58. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,968 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 10:55 am

    Pallywood” returns to Gaza – using images from the war in Syria and Iraq etc (some two years old), and passing them off as being from the current conflict in Gaza.

    It is odd that anyone would use fake photographs to highlight the atrocities committed by Israel when the footage coming out of Gaza is horrific enough.

    Why did the Israelis destroy al-Wafa hospital?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  59. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,968 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 11:01 am
    Southern Raider @ at 10:03 am

    I agree. I can’t see Israel indiscriminately killing kids on a beach…

    I don’t usually go in for this conspiracy stuff, but when I saw that news broadcast something didn’t quite gel.

    Here these people are, in the middle of a war zone – under indiscriminate fire that has been going on for sometime – and the mother sends her boys out to play on the beach? Not only that, but there is someone close by with a camera, that filmed the boys playing on the beach, before the bombs hit? Really?

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  60. Reid (16,523 comments) says:

    …if you found yourself in a situation in 2014 where you were surrounded by enemies who want you dead, end of story, would you

    A: Fight, after trying and trying to achieve some kind of peace or…

    dd, here’s the thing. THEY DON’T EVEN TRY TO ACHIEVE PEACE. DUH.

    They provoke and provoke and provoke and then when the inevitable provocation results in an atrocity sufficient to justify an OTT mass slaughter, they go ahead and do it. That’s what happened now, that’s what they’ve always done.

    And idiots like you and many others in the West, unable apparently to think straight because in your hallucination it’s the Jews and evewyone hates them simply because they’re Jews and why, just look at the Holocaust and this hallucination apparently makes you and your ilk abandon all logic and rationality and treat poor widdle Iswael as some kind of special case whose thereby permitted, in your fantasy, to do things time after after time that, if done by any other nation on Earth, would be immediately condemned by you and your ilk. But you can’t condemn them, apparently, because apparently, everytime you try to think rationally about it, something stirs in your tummy apparently telling you that it’s poor widdle Iswael, who never did anything wrong, ever, and just think of the Holocaust.

    And there are millions if not billions of you, all suffering under this entirely irrational hallucination and if you think it’s rational, then like I said, what would you think and say about it, if any other nation on Earth acted like Israel has, for the last seventy years? And newsflash to avoid getting into a tedious back and forth, the Holocaust was a one-off committed by a small group in a nation who allowed them to do one of the worst things in history. It did not happen yesterday and it was an abherration, not the norm. And therefore, it does NOT justify Israel’s behaviour today, in 2014.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  61. dirty harry (504 comments) says:

    LOL..the King and his cronies have spoken..all listen.

    Quite simple ..stop commiting crime and you wont go to jail.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10285816/Jail-not-the-answer-iwi-advocate

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  62. gravedodger (1,566 comments) says:

    @ Penny Dreadful 11 23,

    It is already a crap day Penny so here goes:
    Is Israeli State TERRORISM more lethal than HAMAS terrorism?

    Will there be any scrutiny of Placards and banners or will it be a democratic event in the spirit of “free speech”.

    “A key principle of our movement for freedom, justice, and equality: The struggle for our inalienable rights is one opposed to all forms of racism and bigotry, including, but not limited to, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, Zionism, and other forms of bigotry directed at anyone, and in particular people of color and indigenous peoples everywhere.”
    Are you serious.

    “Finally, we call on people around the world to join us in a morally consistent stance that opposes racism and bigotry in all forms. An ethical struggle for justice and equal rights in any context entails zero tolerance for racial discrimination and racism anywhere.”
    So the Israeli consulate is part of the event, that could be interesting.

    Is this event weather dependent as ground conditions are a bit suspect here, but then Aotea Square is of no concern to you eh.

    Will your Rates status be a valid topic for signage. With bigotry, ethics, and equal rights involved.

    Wish I could be there but I have to trim my toenails and I have a more pressing second option.

    Have a simply splendid day, both of you.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  63. simpleton1 (230 comments) says:

    Yes we all know that the Americans should not have initiated D day as already many Germans had been killed, by bombing and in the North African and Italian campaigns and not so many Americans casualties in proportionup to that date.

    Also like wise for for the hapless Japanese, when so many had been killed in Okinawa, compared to the number of American casualties. When in one night raid on Tokyo , killed more than one nuclear bomb. They did not have the decency to surrender unconditionally, until 2 more major bombings.
    Perhaps should have waited for another Japanese killer attack, like in Nanking.

    As you explain from a Palestinian statement which seems so admirable, could you explain to me what you admire in of the Hamas charter.?

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  64. dad4justice (8,238 comments) says:

    “Maori have been incarcerated for 100 years and we are getting worse so why would we want to continue with the prison system,” said Baker.”

    dirty harry – just imagine what incentive this ridiculous statement gives the presidents of the mongrel mob and black power. Communities continually terrorised by these thugs can only shake their heads in disbelief. When will they stop playing the victim card is the million dollar question?

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  65. dirty harry (504 comments) says:

    stupid Palestinians..what do you expect. Provoke continually and you will have your arses kicked and handed back to you on a plate.

    No sympathy from me.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  66. simpleton1 (230 comments) says:

    My question is to Penny.

    As you explain from a Palestinian statement which seems so admirable, could you explain to me what you admire in of the Hamas charter.?

    “an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[2] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel”

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  67. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    So the regular handful of scruffy placard wavers will be screeching into their megaphones in the Auckland CBD this arvo – in an attempt to justify the actions of the terrorist outfit Hamas. Whoop-de-doo. And of course, the lame stream media will morph a handful of serial placard wavers into a group of ‘hundreds’ for their news reports tonight. Pathetic – on all fronts.

    Israel will always have the right to protect its people (and land) from terrorism. And only after extreme provocation they’ve sent in ground troops to lance the Hamas boil – a job I’m sure they’ll manage to do rather well.

    The right to protest is part of our fabric. But so too, is the right others enjoy in pointing out the sheer hypocrisy of the usual suspects (who make up ‘rent a demo’) in their support of Hamas terrorism.

    LAC

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  68. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    Well……I find myself proven correct and vindicated.

    Mr Farrar demerited me for calling National supporting corporates cowards but when I said the same of an opposition member…..no demerits.

    No doubt I’ll get some for this post.

    But obviously I have learnt a big lesson. Denigrate anyone but National

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  69. hj (7,033 comments) says:

    Conservative/NZ First policy overlap.
    http://world.einnews.com/article/214508653/xWei4MH81HUbndWg

    It’s about time the political system had a revamp so we could vote for policy not group policy.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  70. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Judith (7,355 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 11:33 am

    Fletch (5,968 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 11:01 am
    Southern Raider @ at 10:03 am

    I agree. I can’t see Israel indiscriminately killing kids on a beach…

    I don’t usually go in for this conspiracy stuff, but when I saw that news broadcast something didn’t quite gel.

    Here these people are, in the middle of a war zone – under indiscriminate fire that has been going on for sometime – and the mother sends her boys out to play on the beach? Not only that, but there is someone close by with a camera, that filmed the boys playing on the beach, before the bombs hit? Really?

    The hotel that overlooks the beach is a base for a large number of foreign journalists. The kids were playing around an area their family uses to store their fishing boats.

    There were two explosions. The first explosion killed one of the children, the second missile/shell targeted the surviving children who were fleeing the first attack – it was this explosion that killed the other three children.

    I’m guessing the reason for the extensive footage is the proximity of the event to the large number of Western journalists and the first explosion alerting them to something going on .

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  71. Nookin (3,361 comments) says:

    Wiki

    The demerit was not for calling National supporting corps cowards. It was for lying. You told the truth the second time round –hence no demerits. There is a difference.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  72. Don the Kiwi (1,763 comments) says:

    The palestinians/Hamas never learn, and are totally ingracious and stupid.

    Its not many years ago that Israel, who had turned the Gaza strip into a pleasant living area with orchards and fields, handed it all back to the Pallies on condition of peace, which the Pallies agreed to.

    Within months they were again calling for the death of Israel and all Israelies, and started suicide bombing and rocket attacks. They are untrustworthy – just as the Kiwi troops found out in 1917 -18 during WW I. Israel is totally within its rights to invade and lance the boil on their border, by eliminating Hamas.

    All the Pallies have to do, is stop firing rockets into Israel. But they’re too thick and stupid.

    They want peace?? No they don’t – they want to eliminate Israel and are prepared to die for their hatred, and at the same time sacrifice their women and children by using them as shields.

    What a perverse people.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  73. Manolo (13,840 comments) says:

    Long live the Jewish state!

    Vote: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  74. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Southern Raider (1,504 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 10:03 am

    Yoza how is it a prison camp.

    Unless they use tunnels the inmates are only allowed to leave with permission from their captors.
    Apart from the tunnels the inmates are only allowed what and who their captors let in.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  75. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Don the Kiwi (1,570 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 12:24 pm

    All the Pallies have to do, is stop firing rockets into Israel. But they’re too thick and stupid.

    No rockets hit Israel from the West Bank, yet Israel continues its progroms of assassinations and forced eviction there, the Israeli state continues to fund settlers who steal land to set up settlements – settlements the UN declares, unequivocally, illegal.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  76. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    It is odd that anyone would use fake photographs to highlight the atrocities committed by Israel when the footage coming out of Gaza is horrific enough.

    They can’t stop the photographs from coming out, so it’s a way for they to say they are fakes.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  77. doggone7 (808 comments) says:

    igm

    “The only ones paying attention to the fat slug are useless lefties …”

    … and John Armstrong and John Roughan, and David Farrar, and igm and Whale Oil (especially Whale Oil) and … and …and … and Uncle Tom Cobley and all. The funniest thing is they then moan about all the attention he’s seeking and all the attention he’s getting!

    I think there’s some sort of resentment about recognising themselves being so useless as to be led around by a slug. They’ve been led that way for so long they can’t bear to let go just in case there’s a happy ending for them coming along. A bit like a gambling addiction.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  78. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    Originally stated by General Patreus

    Smart Street Lights to Track Everything We Do All the Time

    Smart street lights that “track everything we do all the time” are on the horizon according to a CBS News report which touted the environmental benefits of new LED systems that also feature an array of surveillance capabilities.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  79. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    according to newstalkzb “kiwis” will be out in force marching for palestine today. 1500 expected.

    Dime is calling bullshit.

    Vote: Thumb up 17 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  80. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    “Wiki

    The demerit was not for calling National supporting corps cowards. It was for lying”

    The stat of $6b corporate fraud was an IRD release this year.

    Most corporates in this country are National supporters who are hiding cowardly from paying their dues.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 12 You need to be logged in to vote
  81. wikiriwhis business (4,019 comments) says:

    It would be interesting to know if any corporate or high level business person does not vote National/Act.

    Is Act toast yet?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  82. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    Dime

    I am bloody tempted to head down there with a pro Israel placard. At the very least it would be a bit of a giggle.

    Vote: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  83. Yvette (2,824 comments) says:

    It follows that New Zealanders are surely entitled to know whether or not Key’s word is devoid of trustworthiness. And they should be told today. Not tomorrow. Not next week. And most surely not when it is most politically advantageous for the Internet Mana leadership – Dotcom, Laila Harre and Hone Harawira.
    – John Armstrong

    If Prime Minister John Key may have been untruthful it was surely in words similar to “I have not read the Police Report on John Banks.”

    Not yet sentenced, but Banks is found guilty, but there was no monumental backlash against Key’s “ignorance” which was generally given the nod-nod wink-wink “who needs a by-election that will possibly trigger a general election.”
    The truth was not did Key know the report contents, but did every New Zealander actually know what Key was saying about the situation, without spelling it out.

    Whether Prime Minister John Key knew of Dotcom prior to the raid, means exactly what?
    An FBI “admit him, and we will take off your hands”, means what?

    That Dotcom won’t drop his “bombshell” until it suits him, shows as much respect for the truth or respect for the voter, as we won’t change a fucking useless Labour leader to save the Party in some worthwhile form.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  84. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    big bruv (13,123 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 1:14 pm

    Dime

    I am bloody tempted to head down there with a pro Israel placard. At the very least it would be a bit of a giggle.

    I guessing something along the lines of: “It is the right of the European to exercise the power of life and death over Der Untermensch”

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 14 You need to be logged in to vote
  85. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    Quick, get One Track over to the Middle East, he clearly has it sorted out. In one sentence @9.48am he solves the whole conflict. Even calls it simple.
    If only all those peace negotiatiors knew that the expert is here in New Zealand on kiwiblog!

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  86. Longknives (4,767 comments) says:

    “1500” Kiwis marching for Palestine??
    More like 150- And of those thirty of them will be the usual ‘Rent a Mob’ smelly unemployables that follow Minto and his megaphone everywhere..
    The rest will be members of New Zealand’s Arabic community (If they aren’t too busy fighting each other at the Blockhouse Bay mosque) and a few misguided leftist students.
    The ever ‘impartial’ Katie Bradford will be there breathlessly reporting that “Kiwis are marching in their thousands”
    I will be at home having a beer and saluting Israel for being the only country on the planet with the balls to fight back and crush Islamic Terrorism…

    Popular. Like or Dislike: Thumb up 22 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  87. bc (1,367 comments) says:

    Wiki I noticed your demerits and thought at the time that it was a bit harsh. DPF didn’t even give a reason. Must have hit a raw nerve.
    Meanwhile igm uses abusive language to attack others that contribute here and nothing happens.

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  88. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    bruv – same! the flu has floored me unfortunately.

    hamas are a disgusting bunch of assholes.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  89. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Longknives (4,363 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 1:30 pm

    I will be at home having a beer and saluting Israel for being the only country on the planet with the balls to fight back and crush Islamic Terrorism…

    I think it is cowardly the way people like you speak in code. Why don’t you just come out and say, “I will be at home having a beer and saluting Israel for being the only country on the planet with the balls to show those wogs whose boss.”

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  90. Longknives (4,767 comments) says:

    “I think it is cowardly the way people like you speak in code”

    Really? I thought I was being pretty straightforward.
    Do I need an overhead projector to explain it to you? I am cheering for Israel!

    Vote: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  91. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    It Is the right of the white race to …

    while they support the narrative of white settler colonialism having greater legitimacy than the occupying rights of darker skinned indigenous people.

    I’m reminded of a story I read about an old Jewish peasant in Eastern Poland before WWII who would eagerly get hold of various fascist and Nazi newspapers so he could read up on what the Jews were doing to the white races in Europe. When asked why he followed such lurid stories he chuckled and said that he was always fascinated to find out how powerful he was.

    If that old man could be bought forward in time I’m sure he would not be surprised to find that he’d now also been converted into a white person. Even more ironic is that it’s being done by someone who would then try and associate him with the old Apartheid system which had as one of its primary features the constant classification – and re-classification – of people as “Coloured” or “Black” or “White”.

    Clearly Yoza has more in common with the Broederbond than he thinks.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  92. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Anyone else seen the Conservative Party election hoardings? They are bloody scary. He looks like an axe murderer.

    You think with all that money he could hire a decent publicist. First it was the gay erotic looking pictures in the field and now Ted Bundy billboards.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  93. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    Yoza

    Is it really that inconceivable to you that somebody might not support the modestly named “party of God” in their on going acts of terrorism against the Israeli’s?

    I take it that you are well aware the bombing would stop tomorrow if Hamas ceased lobbing rockets across the border. I take it that you are also well aware that there could be ever lasting peace in the middle east were it not for the stated desire of Hamas and other Islamic terrorist organisations to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.

    The Israeli’s have bent over backwards over the years to achieve real and lasting peace, each and every time their offers are refused by Hamas and the rest of the Islamic terrorists.

    So, do I support Israel?….hell yes, do I give a shit about those in Gaza who are suffering because they are not brave enough to stand up against their own terrorist groups?…hell no.
    I think that the Palestinians have got off lightly so far, had I been leading the state of Israel I would not have been so lenient with them. The answer to Israel’s security is to carpet bomb Palestine, problem solved.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  94. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Longknives (4,364 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 1:47 pm

    [Yoza]“I think it is cowardly the way people like you speak in code”

    Really? I thought I was being pretty straightforward.
    Do I need an overhead projector to explain it to you? I am cheering for Israel!

    Which is conducting a campaign of mass-murder against Palestinians living in Gaza. According to UNOCHA 80% of those killed were civilians. Far from cheering for Israel going after militants, you are cheering for Israel’s slaughter of defenceless women and children. What are you hiding from, Longknives?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  95. stephieboy (3,169 comments) says:

    Wiki. you are highly irresponsible with many of your posts. Yesterday you posted a claim by RT about 5 banned books in the USA. Most were in fact easily available on Amazon.com.
    The fact they might be “ignored” or so called “marginalized ” is a function of the desires of readers choosing not to read them for a whole host of reasons , absolutely nothing to do with US Government Censorship .as RT and the Media Professor attempted to claim.

    And now , predictably ,another one.

    “Obama DHS Prepares For Civil War Civil unrest coming to America.

    Dept of Homeland Security buys 1.4 billions rounds of ammunition.”

    Rejected and documented the true facrs behind the purchase

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/ssabullets.asp#FpQXkkp2QUBdc1Rk.99

    A falsehood again ,predictably ,from Paranoia Prince Alex Jones and his factoids.!

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  96. Longknives (4,767 comments) says:

    “Far from cheering for Israel going after militants, you are cheering for Israel’s slaughter of defenceless women and children. What are you hiding from, Longknives?”

    Shouldn’t you been down in Aotea Square banging a saucepan and changing the World with Minto and the other feral losers?

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  97. stephieboy (3,169 comments) says:

    Yoza, evidence of mass murder like in Rwanda, Pol Pot’s Cambodia. , Sudan etc?

    Evidence and facts please of Genocide of Palestinians in Gaza etc like and scale of the above.?

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  98. Scott (1,805 comments) says:

    My understanding is that Hamas has fired 1200 rockets at Israel. They also kidnapped and murdered three Israeli teenagers. Only after all this provocation has Israel retaliated.
    Also be aware that Israel has completely withdrawn from Gaza so there is no territorial issue.

    The reason for the conflict is simple. Hamas exists to obliterate Israel, that is written in their charter. Hamas is about “death to Israel”, everything else is just commentary.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  99. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    tom hunter (4,334 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 1:52 pm

    Even more ironic is that it’s being done by someone who would then try and associate him with the old Apartheid system which had as one of its primary features the constant classification – and re-classification – of people as “Coloured” or “Black” or “White”.

    You do know that Israel was one of the very few countries apartheid South Africa counted as a friend?

    Common aims

    Israel was openly critical of apartheid through the 1950s and 60s as it built alliances with post-colonial African governments. But most African states broke ties after the 1973 Yom Kippur war and the government in Jerusalem began to take a more benign view of the isolated regime in Pretoria. The relationship changed so profoundly that, in 1976, Israel invited the South African prime minister, John Vorster – a former Nazi sympathiser and a commander of the fascist Ossewabrandwag that sided with Hitler – to make a state visit.

    Leaving unmentioned Vorster’s wartime internment for supporting Germany, Israel’s prime minister, Yitzhak Rabin, hailed the South African premier as a force for freedom and made no mention of Vorster’s past as he toured the Jerusalem memorial to the six million Jews murdered by the Nazis. At a state banquet, Rabin toasted “the ideals shared by Israel and South Africa: the hopes for justice and peaceful coexistence”. Both countries, he said, faced “foreign-inspired instability and recklessness”.

    Vorster, whose army was then overrunning Angola, told his hosts that South Africa and Israel were victims of the enemies of western civilisation. A few months later, the South African government’s yearbook characterised the two countries as confronting a single problem:“Israel and South Africa have one thing above all else in common: they are both situated in a predominantly hostile world inhabited by dark peoples.”

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 12 You need to be logged in to vote
  100. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Yoza who feeds you the bullshit you seem to lap up? BBC World.

    When Israel handed over the Gaza Strip they left all the settlements, farms and orchards in tack.

    What was the first thing the Arabs did? Yes chop down all the fruit trees and burn down the houses. Does this sound like a rationale people to you?

    Plus you realise most of the pictures you see are actually from other conflicts or many years old?

    Vote: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  101. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Do you know why a hospital in Gaza gets bombed? Because it’s being uses to store or launch rockets

    The UN have just had to apologise after a UN funded school was found to have large stores of weapons and rockets inside the school buildings.

    You keep backing Hamas Yoza

    Vote: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  102. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    stephieboy (2,085 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 2:06 pm

    Yoza, evidence of mass murder like in Rwanda, Pol Pot’s Cambodia. , Sudan etc?

    Evidence and facts please of Genocide of Palestinians in Gaza etc like and scale of the above.?

    Something like this?

    - 2 million dead since 1936, 0.1 million from violence, 1,9 million from war-, expulsion- and occupation-derived deprivation; 7 million refugees; 4.1 million Occupied Palestinians deprived of ALL the human rights listed by the Universal Declaration of Human Rights ; 6 million Palestinians forbidden to even live in the homeland continuously inhabited by their forbears to the very dawn of agrarian civilization; 800,000 Palestinians children confined without charge or trial to what the Catholic Church has described as Israel’s Gaza Concentration Camp for the asserted “crime” of being Indigenous Palestinians living in a tiny, remorselessly Zionist-bombed patch of Palestine .

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 16 You need to be logged in to vote
  103. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Yoza you fuckwit.

    Have you ever meet an Israeli or Arab? A lot of Israelis are darker than Arabs.

    What a stupid fuckin statement. Get off your fucken computer and actually travel the world

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  104. stephieboy (3,169 comments) says:

    Yoza , Pat Condell has the measure of you and all the guilt induced left wingers in the West . At the core of the conflict in the ME and Gaza is an abiding hatred of Jews by the Palestinians , their Arab cousins and the Muslim world ( including the likes of you )

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  105. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    You do know that many Jews are of dark-skinned complexion don’t you Yoza and that few Europeans, not just the Nazis, ever thought of the Jews as “white”. It’s just one of the things that makes your Orwellian racial classification so pathetic.

    As far as your bolded quote is concerned it’s what an unknown South African author said, as you’d expect – not what an Israeli said. And in any case it’s no different than the things Hitler said about the Japanese race or Molotov’s comment that “fascism is a matter of taste”, which I’m sure you’d have agreed with completely in 1939. All done to grease the wheels of nation-state bonds.

    According to UNOCHA 80% of those killed were civilians.

    Sheesh. Someone really needs to get in there and arrest the war criminals who launch military attacks from amidst a civilian population.

    It’s one of the original Geneva Convention war crimes, for the very sound reason that a military using that tactic would have a military advantage if they could get away with it – that is through avoiding being attacked. I wonder if the original framers of the Geneva Convention ever imagined the day when there would be people like Yoza who advocated precisely for such a thing.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  106. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Yoza

    Please explain why Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt won’t allow Palestinians into their countries when before WW1 there was no borders around this area. The West Bank was actually part of an area called Trans Jordan because it was both sides of the Jordan river

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  107. Elaycee (4,393 comments) says:

    A major difference between Israel and Hamas:

    Israel is protecting its citizens and children from attack by missile.

    Hamas is using citizens and children to protect its missiles.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  108. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Southern Raider (1,507 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 2:15 pm

    Yoza who feeds you the bullshit you seem to lap up? BBC World.

    I generally provide links with any ‘cut and pastes’. Definitely not the BBC, they tend to pursue an Anglo-centric bias in all their reporting.
    However, the following sources are generally sound:
    B’Tselem

    Electronic Intifada
    ZNet
    Jonathan Cook
    Mondoweis
    Medialens
    Thruth-out
    TomDispatch
    johnpilger.com
    Democracy NOW!
    Counterpunch
    Common Dreams
    Alternet

    Noam Chomsky and Norman Finklestein have also written comprehensively on the subject.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  109. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    Just to put the war criminal aspect of Hamas in an even clearer light is the following question directed at them by none other than Mahmoud Abbas, “What are you trying to achieve by sending rockets?”

    He asks that question because it’s obvious to everybody that Hamas’s rockets are militarily useless: inaccurate, inadequate warheads and often intercepted by the Israeli “Iron Dome” anti-missile system (thanks President Reagan :) ). So why continue to fire them, especially from within civilian sites?

    To ask the question is to answer it. The whole plan is to deliberately draw Israeli counter-attacks. That produces dead Palestinian civilians for TV, which is a far more destructive weapon against the Israeli state than any old rocket. Sure it’s utterly cold-blooded, cynical and immoral but if it gets the support of a lot of Yoza’s in the West then it’s a successful military tactic and Geneva Conventions and war crimes be damned.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  110. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Yoza

    Why is it if Israel is so evil that the Egyptian Foreign Minister is going off at Hamas for breaching all the ceasefire attempts.

    Can you please confirm which of the resent ceasefires that Israel has breached?

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  111. stephieboy (3,169 comments) says:

    yoza , your references are indeed very comprehensive but also very biased Palestinian centric views notably Mondoweiss Democracy Now, John Pilger and Noam Chomsky.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  112. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    Just in case any of you wondered what I’m doing while Penny is at the solidarity march for Hamas the answer is listening to Wainui dealing to HOBM at William Jones! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  113. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    tom hunter (4,335 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 2:25 pm

    It’s one of the original Geneva Convention war crimes, for the very sound reason that a military using that tactic would have a military advantage if they could get away with it – that is through avoiding being attacked. I wonder if the original framers of the Geneva Convention ever imagined the day when there would be people like Yoza who advocated precisely for such a thing.

    That argument would make sense if Israel was reticent about bombing schools, hospitals, UN compounds or any concentrated civilian population. As has been witnessed, Israel has no such hesitation about carrying out attacks on such targets. The,” Hamas was using them as human shields”, meme is something Israel tacks on to the end of yet another massacre as a means of grasping for legitimacy.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  114. Reid (16,523 comments) says:

    http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/18/371841/israel-bombs-more-hospitals-in-gaza/

    Proportionate? How come when Iswael bombs and shells hospitals – deliberately of course because SURELY you’re not dumb enough to hallucinate with today’s technology it was an accident – it’s an act of self-defense against the wain of wockets that no-one had paid any attention to whatsoever until the last few days even given if even a single Iswaeli had suffered a scratch the western media would have been screaming. But no, nothing, not a thing, for months. And when anyone else does it, it’s a war crime. How come?

    And then, when it needs to justify its thuggery, all of a sudden the useful idiots gallop into full roaring mentalism and start screaming their idiot mental heads off about all the wockets that poor widdle Iswael is supposedly subjected to evewy single minute of evewy single day, day in, day out, for months and years and then, in the minds of the braying galloping roaring mentals, finally, finally, when all other options have been totally exhausted every single other thing has been tried to stop them, only then, do these fools hallucinate, does poor widdle Iswael finally react.

    Reality and these fools are not friends at all. Words fail me and I fear for the “m” on my keyboard when this topic comes up, it really does get a serious workout.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 10 You need to be logged in to vote
  115. Nostradamus (3,350 comments) says:

    Reid:

    I fear for the “m” on my keyboard when this topic comes up, it really does get a serious workout.

    I’ve always loved your phrase “galloping mentals”!

    Of course, speaking of keyboards and serious workouts, how Philu’s keyboard provides a seemingly unlimited supply of full-stops remains one of life’s unsolved mysteries. A Nobel Prize for a budding Philuologist (perhaps you, Reid) is surely there for the taking!

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  116. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    The unlimited supply of happy faces that my keyboard produces is just because I’m such a happy-go-lucky sort of bloke! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  117. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    wow, you’re a genius tom, but quick tom, you need to get in touch with the Israelis and let them know of this cunning Hamas tactic. Because obviously Israel can’t have cottoned on to it yet because they keep murdering innocent civilians.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  118. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    Jesus….10:0 to Wainui…A hundred Hail Marys required for HOBM! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  119. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    But will you still be that happy in 80 mins time?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  120. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    tom hunter (4,336 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    Just to put the war criminal aspect of Hamas in an even clearer light is the following question directed at them by none other than Mahmoud Abbas, “What are you trying to achieve by sending rockets?”

    He asks that question because it’s obvious to everybody that Hamas’s rockets are militarily useless: inaccurate, inadequate warheads and often intercepted by the Israeli “Iron Dome” anti-missile system (thanks President Reagan :) ). So why continue to fire them, especially from within civilian sites?

    To ask the question is to answer it. The whole plan is to deliberately draw Israeli counter-attacks. That produces dead Palestinian civilians for TV, which is a far more destructive weapon against the Israeli state than any old rocket. Sure it’s utterly cold-blooded, cynical and immoral but if it gets the support of a lot of Yoza’s in the West then it’s a successful military tactic and Geneva Conventions and war crimes be damned.

    If, as you point out, “Hamas’s rockets are militarily useless: inaccurate, inadequate warheads and often intercepted by the Israeli “Iron Dome” anti-missile system…” and if “…[t]he whole plan is to deliberately draw Israeli counter-attacks. That produces dead Palestinian civilians for TV, which is a far more destructive weapon against the Israeli state than any old rocket.” then why does Israel so willingly slaughter so many innocent Palestinians.

    To ask the question is to answer it. This is not a war, it is mass murder. As Western populations have been conditioned to accept the mass-killings of ‘unpeople’ like the Palestinians, their deaths at the hands of a Western supported state are of no consequence, they are the unworthy victims of Western terror.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  121. stigie (1,224 comments) says:

    One has to ask, will Johnboys rugby team win this weekend ? Has he bought in more Gordons just in case ?

    You see, most of us here on KB do care about his wellbeing and his ability to see out the weekend without distractions !~

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  122. Yvette (2,824 comments) says:

    Why Reid writes his supposedly serious comments with an Elmer Fudd accent is a mystewy, Johnboy,
    but it must threaten his W key far more than your caps, colon, dash and right bracket :-)

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  123. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    Si seulement il pouvait lisp en Français il trouverait beaucoup plus de satisfaction Yvette! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  124. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    Not so mighty Ories 7…Villagers 6 bb! :)

    Wainui 13 HOBM nil :)

    “Hail Mary full of grace……..etc….etc….” :)

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  125. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    Johnboy

    Is your ref a left footer?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  126. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    MIGHTY Ories 19 Villagers 6 at half time bb…your ref must be dyslexic! :)

    Wainui HOBM the same as before.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  127. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    Striding onto the semi finals Johnboy!

    What chance a Ories v Wainui decider?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  128. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Southern Raider (1,513 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 2:54 pm

    Yoza

    Why is it if Israel is so evil that the Egyptian Foreign Minister is going off at Hamas for breaching all the ceasefire attempts.

    Can you please confirm which of the resent ceasefires that Israel has breached?

    These ‘cease fires’ are more Israeli PR stunts than actual meaningfully mutual discussions. Jonathan Cook maps out the most recent of these farces on his blog:

    We now have confirmation from the Israeli daily Haaretz of what we should have suspected: that the idea for the so-called Egyptian “ceasefire proposal” was actually hatched in Washington, the messenger boy was arch-war criminal Tony Blair, and the terms were drafted by Israel.

    The intention was either to corner Hamas into surrendering – and thereby keep the savage blockade of Gaza in place – or force Hamas to reject the proposal and confirm the Israeli narrative that it is a terrorist organisation with which Israel cannot make peace.

    According to Haaretz, Blair secretly initiated his “ceasefire” activity after “coordinating” with US Secretary of State John Kerry. On Saturday he headed off to Cairo to meet with the US-backed Egyptian dictator Abdel Fattah al-Sisi to persuade him to put his name to the proposal.

    Immediately afterwards, he travelled to Israel to meet Benjamin Netanyahu on Saturday afternoon. Sisi and Netanyahu were then supposed to thrash out the details. When they failed to do so, Blair intervened again on behalf of the Americans and the pair spoke by phone on Saturday evening.

    Here’s the key paragraph from Haaretz:

    Senior Israeli officials and Western diplomats said the reason the Egyptian cease-fire initiative was so short-lived is that it was prepared hastily and was not coordinated with all the relevant parties, particularly Hamas.
    Wonderful that throw-away last line. In all this activity, it never occurred to the US, Blair, Sisi or Netanyahu – and no doubt Mahmoud Abbas, who is strangely absent from this account – that it might be necessary to sound out Hamas on the terms of a ceasefire it would need to abide by.

    Now it seems Kerry is using US muscle to get Egypt, Qatar and Turkey to strong-arm Hamas into surrendering.

    It’s depressingly predictable that the corporate media have swallowed the line of Israel accepting the “ceasefire proposal” and Hamas rejecting it. What Hamas did was reject a US-Israeli diktat to sign away the rights of the people of Gaza to end a siege that cuts them off from the rest of the world.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 10 You need to be logged in to vote
  129. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    That would curdle milkys cream bb! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  130. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    A bonus point for the Mighty Ories!

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  131. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,968 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 11:01 am

    Southern Raider @ at 10:03 am

    I agree. I can’t see Israel indiscriminately killing kids on a beach. There’s something else going on there. If it was such a big story then why did NBC hurriedly whisk the reporter who covered the story out of there? The reporter, Mohyeldin, is “an Egyptian-American with extensive experience reporting on that region”.

    This was as a consequence of Mohyeldin reporting a story documenting Israeli crimes and mocking US state department statements blaming Hamas. There was an immediate public response demanding NBC allow Mohyeldin be returned to Gaza to do his job.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 10 You need to be logged in to vote
  132. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    33:6 now bb! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  133. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    That argument would make sense if Israel …

    No that argument makes sense irrespective of what the counter-attacking force does, that’s the whole point of it being in the Geneva Conventions in the first place. Otherwise it means one side gets to launch military attacks at will, safe in the knowledge that the other side are not “allowed” to strike back.

    You’re not supposed to be able to get away with launching military attacks from within a civilian population and then claiming the counter-attacking force are a bunch of war criminals. That actually destroys the whole notion of the term war criminal and any laws of warfare. You are the war criminal from the get go and the tactic only works when you have Yoza’s on your side who allow you to get away with it. Perfectly Orwellian.

    … then why does Israel so willingly slaughter so many innocent Palestinians.

    You really are far into Lies Are Truth territory now. It’s been observed by multiple eye-witnesses that the Israelis have been dropping leaflets telling Gaza residents to evacuate targeted zones, while the Hamas government tells them to stay in their homes. In short Hamas is willing to slaughter many innocents to gain their objectives – with your help.

    … obviously Israel can’t have cottoned on to it yet because they keep murdering innocent civilians.

    Murder means you had a specific motive to kill a specific person. But I’m sure you knew that. You just deliberately picked the word because it means something worse than “killed”. And of course it brings us back to the question of who is really “murdering” – the people whose weapons kill or the people who shove innocent victims in the way of those weapons to save their own hides and win a war that they can’t win through conventional means.

    Winning an unconventional war can be done by using civilians as a shield. That’s why the Geneva Conventions outlawed it, but they never reckoned on people like you and Yoza condoning the tactic.

    … are of no consequence, they are the unworthy victims of Western terror.

    Oh dear, you’re even parroting Chomsky’s writing style now. Pathetic. Do try to write in your own words. It makes it seem like you have a mind of your own.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  134. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    What happening Johnboy?????

    The pretend Catholics are mounting a comeback.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  135. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    It’s been observed by multiple eye-witnesses that the Israelis have been dropping leaflets telling Gaza residents to evacuate targeted zones …

    That’s a very valid point you raise, tom. So it isn’t murder after all, only manslaughter then, eh?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  136. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Oh dear, you’re even parroting Chomsky’s writing style now. Pathetic. Do try to write in your own words. It makes it seem like you have a mind of your own.

    Heh, Tom ‘Washington Consensus’ Hunter telling others they are unable to think for themselves.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 14 You need to be logged in to vote
  137. Kiwi Dave (92 comments) says:

    Yoga @ 10.38: “if 1.8 million Jews were herded…”

    Herded? At the risk of being excessively pedantic, most of this 1.8 million is natural increase, Gaza having the 6th (or 13th, depending on the source) highest rate of population increase in the world with 4.9 births per mother. Not many prison camps match that.

    The squalid conditions of Gaza are not just the fault of Israel, but also the consequences of the refusal of Arab countries to accept refugees, unlike war-devastated European and some Commonwealth countries which absorbed millions of refugees at the same time Israel was created.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  138. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Dean Papa and Yoza should get a room and try and find a real monster to demonise.

    All the Arab states love to keep the Palestianians were they are as it diverts the worlds attention from everything they do.

    If the Arab nations really had an issue don’t you think they would be lining their armies up on the borders?

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  139. Johnboy (16,722 comments) says:

    33:20 to Ories bb

    Wainui 13 HOBM 12!!!

    “All the Popes horse’s and all the Popes men couldn’t quite get a win for HOBM again! :)

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  140. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    So who’s top of the table, Johnboy?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  141. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    Hamas are so useless. They try so hard to kill Israelis and wipe out the State yet fail so miserably. You’d think they’d learn just to give up. As for the people of Palestine, you’d think they would have figured out by now that all they have to do is change their government, get rid of Hamas and leave Israel alone. Then they would have peace. Simple huh just leave your neighbour alone. Fuck history, just stop.That seems to be working in the West Bank who are doing quite well without Hamas and enjoying reasonable relationships with Israel. Even the Egyptians are sick of Hamas. Just a bunch of murdering fuckups.
    But oh no, they carry on. They are just as stupid as their moronic supporters, many of whom we see here.
    No wonder 10-15,000 are leaving every year and the population is in decline. Oh well, carry on Israel. Get as many Hamas as you can,shame about the civilians Hamas put at risk but if that’s the Government they voted for then tough. Only the people of Palestine can change things . No one else.

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  142. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    mikenmild / johnboy

    So the way I see it we have Wanui v the real Catholics and the Mighty Ories v pseudo Catholics

    Is that about right?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  143. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    No, no, Dean. I think you’re being too easy on Hamas – they’re guilty of murder and war crimes by deliberately putting their civilians in front of the missile launchers. If it keeps up like this the Geneva Conventions will mean nothing.

    What a pity the Conventions can’t be enforced by a World Government and a World Police Force who will rush in to adjudicate. And if the Israelis aren’t allowed to get at the criminals without being called War Criminals themselves then I guess all we’re left with is the strongly worded condemnation of both sides by the likes of Dean and Yoza.

    Powerful stuff.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  144. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    … war-devastated European and some Commonwealth countries which absorbed millions of refugees at the same time Israel was created.

    Israel existed long before the Zionists created the state of Israel.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  145. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    And Israel is absolved of all blame because it can claim Hamas is sheltering behind civilians. So when Israel attacks and kills those civilians it is a crime by Hamas?

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  146. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    Herald reports a counter group was waiting at Britomart for the anti Israel protesters.

    Would be interesting to get details of what happened when they meet up.

    I’ve got a Mossad t shirt on the way in the mail. That would have been great to wear today

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  147. Reid (16,523 comments) says:

    I’ve got a Mossad t shirt on the way in the mail. That would have been great to wear today

    Was it washed in babies blood SR? Or was that version too expensive for you?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 16 You need to be logged in to vote
  148. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    And Israel is absolved of all blame because it can claim Hamas is sheltering behind civilians. So when Israel attacks and kills those civilians it is a crime by Hamas?

    Yes. For the very obvious reason that if you say it’s the Israelis fault, call them War Criminals, and demand they cannot counter-attack in any way that can kill civilians, you’ve not only enabled Hamas to commit a war crime, you’ve given them every reason to go on committing the same war crime. Plus you will have destroyed the Geneva Conventions for good measure.

    It’s a paradox I know, but it has to be like this because the only way the Conventions can work is on the basis of reciprocity.

    There’s one other very simple way out of this. Hamas can set up their rocket launching sites on the various chunks of farmland or wasteland in Gaza, well away from civilians. Then they can fire their rockets at Israel without being called war criminals and the Israelis can do the same. Of course the Israelis are likely to win in such a targeting contest – which is precisely why Hamas will never do it.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  149. Don the Kiwi (1,763 comments) says:

    “Was it washed in babies blood SR? ”

    Why don’t you check with the Hamas supporters? They’r the ones with blood on their hands.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  150. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    newstalkzb impartial news today:

    midday – 1500 people expected to turn out for mintos hate rally
    1pm – thousands expected…
    2pm & 3pm – thousands turn out…
    4pm- kiwi turns out (no number mentioned).

    someone got told to pull their head in.

    went to the zb site to see the thousands of people.. its looked like a few hundred mana members.

    all photos taken close up. one pic had 5 people in it.

    why not a pic taken from way back you lying fucks?

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  151. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/photo-popup/mostype-photogallery-photos–rally-for-palestine#18-jpg2014-07-18T20-34-41

    thousands of people

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  152. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I don’t know why you are talking about the Geneva Conventions, when neither side in this conflict seem bound by them. They’re an irrelevancy.
    All that matters is power. Israel’s power comes from its overwhelming military supremacy. It has the luxury of never having to accept peace because it is virtually invulnerable.
    Hamas’s power springs from the desperation of the Palestinians. All Hamas needs to do is continue its puny attacks on Israel. This provokes the overwhelming retaliation that creates more martyrs and more support for Hamas.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  153. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    So, I’m on my next hunting outing, shooting fluffy little bunnies, and animal rights activist Thomasina is acting as a shield to protect the bunny. It follows then that I am fully within my rights to blast through the lovely Thomasina to get at the bunny. And the blame for what happens to poor Thomasina will lie entirely with the bunny! Such moral clarity!! Naughty bunnies!!

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  154. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    “And Israel is absolved of all blame because it can claim Hamas is sheltering behind civilians. So when Israel attacks and kills those civilians it is a crime by Hamas?”

    milky, if you shot a gun at me and missed, then used your kid as a human shield.. and in the process of offing you the kid got it too, i say bad luck kid.

    Vote: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  155. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    collateral damage is still murder, dime.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  156. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    “collateral damage is still murder, dime.”

    really? with milky trying to shoot me id need to defend myself.

    slap on the wrist imho

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  157. Fletch (6,410 comments) says:

    All that matters is power. Israel’s power comes from its overwhelming military supremacy. It has the luxury of never having to accept peace because it is virtually invulnerable.

    The only thing is, Israel has made offers and concessions again and again which have not been accepted, while the Palestinians have offered nothing towards peace. They’ve never had to give anything. In truth, I do not think they want peace at all. They want to destroy Israel at any cost so they do not want there to be any sort of agreement.

    Take the negotiations at Camp David in 2000 that Clinton arranged. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak shocked the world by offering the Palestinians virtually everything they had been demanding, including a state with its capital in Jerusalem, control over the Temple Mount, a return of approximately 95 percent of the West Bank and all of the Gaza Strip, and a $30 billion compensation package for the 1948 refugees.

    Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia was there serving as an intermediary and he urged Arafat to “take this deal.” Could you ever get “a better deal”? he asked. Would you rather negotiate with Sharon? As Arafat vacillated, Bandar issued a stern warning: “I hope you remember, sir, what I told you. If we lose this opportunity, it is going to be a crime.” He also said, “Either you take this deal or we go to war. If you take this deal, we will throw our weight behind you. If you don’t take this deal, do you think anyone will go to war for you?”

    Of course, Arafat said NO. You can read Elsa Walsh’s interview with Prince Bandar in the New Yorker, download PDF here – http://www.saudiembassy.net/files/PDF/03-ST-Bandar-0324-NewYorker.pdf

    I doubt there will ever be peace because the Palestinians do not want it. Israel does, but the Arabs only want to see Israel destroyed.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  158. Longknives (4,767 comments) says:

    “thousands of people”

    I’d say from the look of those photos maybe a couple of hundred Max?
    Enjoyed the Mana Party flag fluttering in the background as well! That’s just so relevant to what’s going on in the Middle East…

    Vote: Thumb up 13 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  159. nasska (11,589 comments) says:

    Not many groups of people consider their own children to be an expendable resource ripe for martyrdom or just collateral damage in a scrap yet the scum Palestinians think it’s acceptable.

    Proof positive that Muslims are not right in the head.

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  160. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    with milky trying to shoot me id need to defend myself.

    your need doesn’t justify making the situation worse.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 15 You need to be logged in to vote
  161. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘They want to destroy Israel at any cost so they do not want there to be any sort of agreement.’
    How do you think the two-bit terrorists that make up Hamas are going to destroy Israel?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 11 You need to be logged in to vote
  162. Longknives (4,767 comments) says:

    I didn’t see Penny in those photos- Will we see her on the news screaming abuse at the Police perhaps?

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  163. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    Israel is of course a democracy, and the only one in the region, as we are often reminded. Which makes these atrocities which are being committed in the name of the Israeli people all the more disturbing. I think Yoza is quite correct when he refers to the Palestinians as being “un-people” in the eyes of many Israelis. But as the saying goes, people get the government they deserve, and by electing a psychopath in Netanyahu, it could be argued that Israel are getting what they deserve. But I wouldn’t argue that. I don’t blame the Israeli people for the atrocities committed by Israel. I believe all people have the right to live in peace. But all religions are cults, and a nation formed on the basis of a cult was never going to be a good idea. It’s just plain weird, all these religious nutjobs and their bizarre rituals. If there really is a god, then they’ll all be going to hell!!

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 16 You need to be logged in to vote
  164. Fletch (6,410 comments) says:

    Dean Papa, Netanyahu is a “psychopath” why? What is psychopathic about wanting to stop the people bombing your country?
    You would do the same thing if you were he.

    As far as the Palestinians being an “un-people”, I’m not sure I would put it that way, but they are an invented people. There has never been any such a culture, people, or language. “Palestine” was a name invented by the Romans to describe that whole Middle East region, much like the British invented the term “Antipodes” to describe the area of Australia and New Zealand. If a group of people suddenly started calling themselves ‘Antipodeans’ and demanding land in Auckland it would be the same thing. There is no such a people

    Vote: Thumb up 14 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  165. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Do you think the Palestinians appeared magically and started claiming part of Israel?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  166. Kiwi Dave (92 comments) says:

    Dean Papa: you forgot to mention that the bunny had been shooting at you and was continuing to shoot while hiding behind Thomasina, and has sworn to keep shooting until you are dead.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  167. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    What racism.

    מוות לערבים ולנוצרים ולכל מי ששונא את ישראל

    http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/may-web-only/price-tag-israeli-extremists-target-christians.html

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  168. Fletch (6,410 comments) says:

    I’ve posted this before, but it’s worth posting again.

    As you’ll see in the video, Israel gave land back to Egypt that they had won during a war, because Egypt agreed to peace. Israel is willing to give land back in exchange for peace. Is that not simple enough?

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  169. dime (9,980 comments) says:

    “your need doesn’t justify making the situation worse.”

    lol ugly truth doesnt believe in self defence. funny.

    Vote: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  170. Steve (North Shore) (4,565 comments) says:

    “thousands of people” Dime? less than 299 I reckon.
    Didn’t see Penny in any of those photos – she must be leading the other group of 1400

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  171. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    but it’s worth posting again.

    Oh look, another loon.
    /

    http://americanloons.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/1039-dennis-prager.html

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  172. Longknives (4,767 comments) says:

    Joe Strummer had it all sorted

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  173. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Fletch
    The borders drawn on the map at the start of that video make its position quite clear.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 10 You need to be logged in to vote
  174. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    Dime

    I had a look through those pics you posted. While there was not that many people there I did notice a disturbing number of middle eastern looking types. If I had to guess they would be followers of the religion of peace.

    So, along with thousands of bludgers that Labour allowed into NZ we also have them to thank for importing Islamic extremists.

    Vote: Thumb up 15 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  175. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “your need doesn’t justify making the situation worse.”

    lol ugly truth doesnt believe in self defence. funny.

    Self defence and putting someone else in harm’s way are two different things.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  176. nasska (11,589 comments) says:

    Excerpt from the diary of David Cunliffe.

    Monday 14th Aug….skiing

    Tuesday 15th Aug….skiing

    Wednesday 16th Aug….skiing

    Thursday 17th Aug…..skiing

    Friday 18th Aug…..skiing

    Saturday 20th Sep…..Bugger!

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  177. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    Netanyahu is arrogant, narcissistic, and lacks empathy, but like all good psychopaths he is good at pretending to show empathy. It is all an act, and he has managed to fool the majority of the people of Israel with his act.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 16 You need to be logged in to vote
  178. Griff (7,822 comments) says:

    Some one should have fired a nice harmless rocket or mortar into that protest march .

    Nuke mecca with a nice harmless cruise missile Arab protest styles.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  179. SPC (5,644 comments) says:

    Key 14th-18 July on beach in Hawaii or on golf course.

    As for 20 September – having a holiday while parliament is in recess and the campaign has yet to begin won’t determine whether we get 50% or not.

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  180. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    You raise a valid point Kiwi Dave. Hence, for the sake of debate, let’s pretend this is a very clever bunny that can, and is shooting at me. So you claim I am now perfectly entitled to blast poor Thomasina away? And that she has no rights at all, merely because of the actions of an evil bunny?

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 9 You need to be logged in to vote
  181. SPC (5,644 comments) says:

    What does we are all Palestinians mean? We don’t want Jews living on our land either?

    There are worse places in the world to be than Gaza this week. Not many but there are. But for some reason some causes have popular brand value and others do not.

    Assyrian Christians are on the run from Mosul and Syrian Kurds appear to be the next target of the pretend Islamic state militants. But no one in the West imagines that protests will impact that shower I suppose.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  182. ShawnLH (5,293 comments) says:

    MH17: ‘Damn you for centuries, Putin!’

    “Ukraine is using a photo of an infant victim of the MH17 disaster to attack Russia, saying Vladimir Putin president has the baby’s blood on his hands.

    A senior government adviser posted a picture of one of MH17’s infant victims with a message to Putin saying: “This baby’s death is on your conscience”, before adding, “Damn you for centuries!”, the Daily Mail reported.

    The image was published as it emerged at least 80 children were among the 298 passengers and crew on board.”

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/10287116/MH17-Damn-you-for-centuries-Putin

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  183. Longknives (4,767 comments) says:

    “Global Peace and Justice Auckland spokesman Mike Treen said it was “stunning” to see as many as 5000 people join the movement in Aotea Square in Auckland today.”

    Seriously! What the fuck???
    I know the loopy left are fond of their mind-altering substances but what fucking planet is this guy on??
    I challenge anyone of sane mind to look at those photos and declare there are 5000 people there!

    Vote: Thumb up 16 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  184. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    I see Colin Craig almost shedding a tear for the kids on TV3 news –

    I’m glad someone stopped him from apologising for being a child!

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 7 You need to be logged in to vote
  185. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    What does we are all Palestinians mean? We don’t want Jews living on our land either?>

    Many Palestinians are either Jewish or of Jewish descent.

    But the statists tend to ignore them because they have no relationship with the state of Israel.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 13 You need to be logged in to vote
  186. tom hunter (4,899 comments) says:

    So, I’m on my next hunting outing, shooting fluffy little bunnies,…

    Well if they’re anything like this vicious little fucker I’d say you’re fully justified in applying Maximum Firepower!

    Seriously dude, if you’ve run that short of argument that you have to go for an analogy and if you’re so bereft of imagination that shooting bunnies is the best you can come up with, it’s time to just explicitly throw in the towel.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  187. SPC (5,644 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth, those using the term usually have no idea about that. They would be descendants of Jews though, not Jews – given those of other religions are no longer seen as Jewish by religion and they do not have Jewish mothers.

    So what do those running with the term we are all Palestinians mean. Some do claim that militant resistance by Palestinians including firing rockets/missiles into Israel to threaten Jewish lives is legitimate resistance to oppression regardless of whether there is any IDF action at the time.

    Vote: Thumb up 8 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  188. ShawnLH (5,293 comments) says:

    “Many Palestinians are either Jewish or of Jewish descent.”

    Most “palestinians” are the decedents of recent 19th century immigrant Arabs from Egypt, Libya, Tunisia, Syria and Jordan.

    Most are not Jewish, nor of Jewish descent, nor indigenous to Eretz Israel.

    “Palestine” is a 20th century mythical invention.

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  189. Longknives (4,767 comments) says:

    Tom Hunter-
    “I Warned You!!!”
    Do the Israelis have the ‘Holy Hand Grenade’?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  190. lilman (960 comments) says:

    I hope the Israeli Government keep hammering away at Gaza and do as much damage to Hamas as possible.
    They wont beat them,but to be able to damage them and cause as much pain as they can would be my stated goal.

    Then as soon as they come to the negotiation table treat them as a governing body which want to accept its place in the world and all that requires,ie,act responsibly and treat other countries within established guidelines.
    Until then hammer them.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  191. Fletch (6,410 comments) says:

    Fletch, The borders drawn on the map at the start of that video make its position quite clear.

    You mean the borders decided by the U.N in 1947 to create a 50% Jewish state and a 50% Arab state, to which the jews agreed and the Arabs did not, and attacked Israel in all-out war? Those borders?

    50/50 seems very fair to me.

    Vote: Thumb up 10 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  192. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    For Yoza, UT etc

    In the late 19th century there was bugger all Arabs living in the area known as to the British as Palestine. Those that did live there were landless or nomads. They lived day to day trying to grow food on infertile land which belonged to Arabs living in other parts of the Middle East.

    Jews that moved back from Europe purchased the land off these vacant Arab landowners and started draining swamps and turning useless land into productive farms.

    Vote: Thumb up 12 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  193. Southern Raider (1,831 comments) says:

    As has been raised the Arabs were given the opportunity to have their own state in 2000 and Arafat turned it down.

    At the time the Saudis warned Arafat he was committing a crime as he was giving up an offer than may never be given again

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  194. big bruv (13,935 comments) says:

    ShawnLH

    ““Palestine” is a 20th century mythical invention.”

    Seems that mythical invention is an on-going occurrence in that part of the world. :)

    Vote: Thumb up 6 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  195. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,131 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 6:58 pm

    “Palestine” is a 20th century mythical invention.

    According to the Jewish Virtual Library the word Palestine was first in use over 2500 years ago:

    Though the definite origins of the word “Palestine” have been debated for years and are still not known for sure, the name is believed to be derived from the Egyptian and Hebrew word peleshet. Roughly translated to mean “rolling” or “migratory,” the term was used to describe the inhabitants of the land to the northeast of Egypt – the Philistines. The Philistines were an Aegean people – more closely related to the Greeks and with no connection ethnically, linguisticly or historically with Arabia – who conquered in the 12th Century BCE the Mediterranean coastal plain that is now Israel and Gaza.

    A derivitave of the name “Palestine” first appears in Greek literature in the 5th Century BCE when the historian Herodotus called the area “Palaistinē” (Greek – Παλαιστίνη).

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 8 You need to be logged in to vote
  196. Odakyu-sen (679 comments) says:

    So many different “Palestines”.

    There’s the ancient one that Yoza mentions. There’s the synthetic “Palestine” drawn up in the 1920. There’s the marketing campaign “Palestine” created in the 1970s following expulsions from Jordan (wasn’t Jordan the “new Palestine” created in the 1920s?)

    … It all gets so confusing.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  197. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Southern Raider (1,517 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 7:14 pm

    For Yoza, UT etc

    In the late 19th century there was bugger all Arabs living in the area known as to the British as Palestine. Those that did live there were landless or nomads. They lived day to day trying to grow food on infertile land which belonged to Arabs living in other parts of the Middle East.

    Jews that moved back from Europe purchased the land off these vacant Arab landowners and started draining swamps and turning useless land into productive farms.

    Over 500,000 in 1890 according to most scholarly commentary.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  198. nasska (11,589 comments) says:

    The following are supposedly accounts of actual exchanges between airliners and control towers from around the world:

    *

    The controller, working a busy pattern told the 727 on downwind to make a three-sixty (do a complete circle, usually to provide spacing between aircraft). The pilot of the 727 complained, “Do you know it costs us two thousand dollars to make a three-sixty in this airplane? Without missing a beat the controller replied, “Roger, give me four thousand dollars worth!”
    *

    A DC-10 had an exceedingly long roll out after landing with his approach speed just a little too high. San Jose Tower: “American 751 heavy, turn right at the end if able. If not able, take the Guadeloupe exit off of Highway 101 and make a right at the light to return to the airport.
    *

    Unknown Aircraft: “I’m f***ing bored!”.
    Air Traffic Control: “Last aircraft transmitting, identify yourself immediately!!”
    Unknown Aircraft: “I said I was f***ing bored, not f***ing stupid!”
    *

    – Tower: “Eastern 702, cleared for takeoff, contact Departure on 124.7.” (124.7 would be the radio frequency for Departure Control).
    – Eastern 702: “Tower, Eastern 702 switching to departure … by the way, after we lifted off, we saw some kind of dead animal on the far end of the runway.”
    – Tower: “Continental 635, cleared for takeoff, contact Departure on 124.7; did you copy the report from Eastern?”
    – Continental 635: “Continental 635, cleared for takeoff Roger; and yes, we copied Eastern and we’ve already notified our caterers.”

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  199. Reid (16,523 comments) says:

    Speaking of which nasska, I heard on the radio on Friday a UK journo who flew planes. He said that pilots both pvte and commercial have std warning systems. He said when he was flying on the weekend he read on this system about keeping clear of all Ukraine airspace and use Russian instead. If a pvte pilot got that and obeyed it, how come a commercial flight didn’t?

    Vote: Thumb up 7 Thumb down 3 You need to be logged in to vote
  200. Fletch (6,410 comments) says:

    Do you think the Palestinians appeared magically and started claiming part of Israel?

    Yes.

    If there is a real ‘Palestine”, than it is today called Jordan.

    Here is Melanie Phillips on the subject –

    Anyone familiar with the history knows it is correct [that 'Palestine' is Jordan]. Immediately after World War One, Palestine consisted of what is now Jordan, Israel, the West Bank and Gaza. The great powers dividing up the region decided that Britain should be given a mandate to administer Palestine and restore within it the historic Jewish national home. Within a couple of years, however, Winston Churchill, for reasons of realpolitik, gave away three quarters of Palestine to the Hashemite dynasty to found (Trans)Jordan (leaving all the rest to be settled by the Jews; but that’s another story).

    So Jordan is indeed Palestine. As Camie Davis points out, the Arabs themselves repeatedly said so:

    Jordanians, for decades, were avid proponents of the ‘Jordan is Palestine’ position. They used that position as justification for the annexation of the West Bank, arguing that Palestine was one single, indivisible unit, and that Jordan was the legitimate governing body of Palestine…

    ‘We are the government of Palestine, the army of Palestine and the refugees of Palestine.’ Prime Minister of Jordan, Hazza’ al-Majali, 23 August 1959

    ‘Palestine and Transjordan are one.’ King Abdullah, Arab League meeting in Cairo, 12 April 1948

    ‘Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine; there is one people and one land, with one history and one and the same fate.’ Prince Hassan, brother of King Hussein, addressing the Jordanian National Assembly, 2 February 1970

    ‘Jordan is not just another Arab state with regard to Palestine, but rather, Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan in terms of territory, national identity, sufferings, hopes and aspirations.’ Jordanian Minister of Agriculture, 24 September 1980

    ‘The truth is that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan.’ King Hussein 1981

    Indeed, until 1970 the Palestine Liberation Organisation conducted terrorist operations against Jordan on the grounds that it was Palestine and the Hashemite minority was ruling the Palestinian majority. It was only after Jordan killed thousands of Palestinians in ‘Black September’ (and who in the west ever cared about that??) that Israel suddenly became the sole historic homeland’ of the Palestinians and Jordan was airbrushed out of the picture — and the fabrication of ‘Palestinianism’ became the accepted truth.

    But as ‘Palestinian’ politician Zouhair Moussein told the Dutch newspaper Trouw in 1977 (hat tip: Israel Matzav):

    The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct ‘Palestinian people’ to oppose Zionism.

    For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.

    It is the west’s refusal to acknowledge this connection, and wholly to misrepresent instead both the history of the region and the causes of the conflict in the Middle East, which is one of the principal reasons why that murderous impasse continues to this day.

    Vote: Thumb up 5 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  201. nasska (11,589 comments) says:

    ….”If a pvte pilot got that and obeyed it, how come a commercial flight didn’t?”…..

    Probably an issue over the cost of the fuel to alter course Reid. I don’t think pilots react or even think outside the circle….the prospect of redundancy hangs over them.

    In any case I read on some news report that the missile hit when the plane was outside the exclusion zone. Plus they were 30,000 feet up in the air!

    Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  202. Reid (16,523 comments) says:

    Probably an issue over the cost of the fuel to alter course Reid.

    That was my thought too nasska and the journo also voiced it. It was on NewstalkZB around 5-5:30 Friday BTW if you want to listen.

    If that is the case then it’s interesting the media isn’t pursuing that angle isn’t it, rather they’re pushing non-stop the ‘big bad Wussians did it on purpose cos they’re gweat big meanies’ line.

    In any case I read on some news report that the missile hit when the plane was outside the exclusion zone. Plus they were 30,000 feet up in the air!

    Air shmair. Any decent ground to air can take out a big fat slow airliner and 30k isn’t high, 100k is high, to those things, these days. You can probably buy ones that could do that from Walmart these days, with a free toaster. “It’s for hunting…”

    Vote: Thumb up 3 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  203. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,972 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 7:08 pm

    Fletch, The borders drawn on the map at the start of that video make its position quite clear.

    You mean the borders decided by the U.N in 1947 to create a 50% Jewish state and a 50% Arab state, to which the jews agreed and the Arabs did not, and attacked Israel in all-out war? Those borders?

    50/50 seems very fair to me.

    It didn’t help that the British, who were the military administration at the time, also rejected the UN plan as the Palestinians and British were subject to regular acts of Zionist terror,

    [a]s Jewish leader David Ben-Gurion recorded in his personal history of Israel: “From 1946 to 1947 there were scarcely any Arab attacks on the Yishuv [the Jewish community in Palestine

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 6 You need to be logged in to vote
  204. Kiwi Dave (92 comments) says:

    Dean, you raise a legitimate and difficult ethical question, but so long as Hamas hide or site the weapons among civilians (which I understand is considered a war crime in international law) and so long as Hamas uses these weapons to attack Israeli civilians, we can scarcely expect Israel not to defend itself, and this will involve civilian casualties. If you know a more humane and FEASIBLE response, let us all know. At the moment it looks, as others have remarked, that Hamas uses civilians quite cynically to protect its weapons and promote Palestinians as innocent victims for the purpose of international propaganda.

    Vote: Thumb up 9 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  205. nasska (11,589 comments) says:

    ….”You can probably buy ones that could do that from Walmart these days, with a free toaster.”…..

    But not in Godzone unless it’s in the four days that lead up to Guy Fawkes.

    OH & S get a bit worked up about those sort of things.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  206. Reid (16,523 comments) says:

    It didn’t help that the British, who were the military administration at the time, also rejected the UN plan as the Palestinians and British were subject to regular acts of Zionist terror,

    Yes Yoza. An example of the official view that gets voiced by all the decent people, vs. the real policy implemented by those the Queen referred to as ‘Be careful, Paul… There are powers at work in this country of which we have no knowledge. Do you understand?’

    And those were the people who first promulgated then implemented the Balfour Declaration, etc. The etc part being the wars that made people want to go to Israel in the first place.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  207. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    Nasska
    Here’s a great SR71 story for you.

    http://www.econrates.com/reality/schul.html

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  208. Reid (16,523 comments) says:

    OH & S get a bit worked up about those sort of things.

    Poncy little pricks aren’t they.

    Is there anything they don’t spoil?

    They even made those orange cones so common it’s no fun to steal them and watch people crash anymore.

    It’s not fair.

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  209. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    Fletch (5,974 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 8:11 pm

    Here is Melanie Phillips on the subject –

    The woman is a nutter as this review of her book Londonstan demonstrates:

    One set of passages I just read now strikes me as exceptionally weird, and representative of Mel P’s contradictory state of mind. On p. 28, she says: “Britain… has effectively allowed itself to be taken hostage by militant gays, feminists or ‘antiracists’ who used weapons such as public vilification, moral blackmail and threats to peoples’ livelihoods to force the majority to give in to their demands. And these demands were identical to those made by the Islamists…”

    Wait a minute… am I reading correctly?

    At this point I felt like nominating Mel P for this year’s British Comedy Award, except that after reading a bit more the inclination to laugh gets replaced by a sense of disbelief, confusion, incredulity, and nausea.

    How can you take seriously someone who believes that:

    1) The United Kingdom has been taken hostage by gays, no, not just gays, militant gays (gays with guns?, what the hell is that supposed to mean???), feminists and antiracists, no wait we have to put that in inverted commas, “antiracists”. Is she trying to describe the Blair Cabinet?

    2) These illegitimate “minorities” have “forced the majority to give in to their demands”. OK people: let’s be frank here, you can open your heart when you leave your blog comments… when you wake up in the morning, do you feel that you’ve been subjugated by a scary group of gays, feminists and antiracists who’ve just taken over your country and are now threatening to take your job too?

    3) The demands of this scary group are “identical” to the demands of “Islamists”, and by Islamists, Mel P means, basically terrorists.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 4 You need to be logged in to vote
  210. nasska (11,589 comments) says:

    All_on_Red

    Good oneupsmanship! :)

    Ages back one of our commenters who’s been absent for a while put this up:

    ….”boredboy (250 comments) says:
    January 24th, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    It was probably an injury sustained on the Great Barrier Airways Britten-Norman Islander aircraft you flew back on. They are well-known for not being very comfortable so I am not surprised you were injured in this way. Perhaps even you flew back on the new model. I read a review of it some years ago and have copied it here:

    Undaunted by aerodynamic reality, the design team at Pilatus/Britten-Norman has announced plans for the BN2-XL (Extra Loud), promising more noise, reduced payload, a lower cruise speed, and increased pilot workload.

    We spoke to Mr. Fred Gribble, former British Rail boilermaker and now Chief Project Engineer. Fred was responsible for developing many original and creative design flaws in the service of his former employer, and assures he will be incorporating these in the new BN2-XL technology under a licensing agreement.

    Fred reassured BN-2 pilots however that all fundamental design flaws of the original model had been retained. Further good news is that the XL version is available as a retrofit.

    Among the new measures is that of locking the ailerons in the central position, following airborne and simulator tests which showed that whilst pilots of average strength were able to achieve up to 30° of control wheel deflection, this produced no appreciable variation in the net flight path of the aircraft.

    Thus the removal of costly and unnecessary linkages has been possible, and the rudder has been nominated as the primary directional control. In keeping with this new philosophy, but to retain commonality for crews transitioning to the XL, additional resistance to foot pressure has been built into the rudder pedals to prevent overcontrolling in gusty conditions (defined as those in which wind velocity exceeds 3 knots).

    An outstanding feature of Islander technology has always been the adaptation of the 0-540 engine, which mounted in any other aircraft in the free world (except the Trislander) is known for its low vibration levels, so as to cause it to shake and batter the airframe, gradually crystallise the main spar, desynchronise the accompanying engine, and simulate the sound of fifty skeletons fornicating in an aluminium dustbin.

    Britten-Norman will not disclose the technology they applied in enhancing this effect in the XL, but Mr. Gribble assures us it will be perpetuated in later models and sees it as a strong selling point; “After all, the Concorde makes a lot of noise,” he said, “and look how fast it goes.”

    However, design documents clandestinely recovered from the Britten-Norman shredder have solved a question that has puzzled aerodynamicists and pilots for many years, disclosing that it is actually noise which causes the BN-2 to fly. The vibration set up by the engines and amplified by the airframe, in turn causes the air molecules above the wing to oscillate at atomic frequency, reducing their density and causing lift. This can be demonstrated by sudden closure of the throttles, which causes the aircraft to fall from the sky. As a result, lift is proportional to noise rather than speed, explaining amongst other things the aircraft’s remarkable takeoff performance. In the driver’s cab (as Gribble describes it), ergonomic measures will ensure that long-term PBN pilots’ deafness does not cause inflight dozing. Orthopaedic surgeons have designed a cockpit layout and seat to maximise backache, enroute insomnia, chronic irritability, and terminal (post-flight) lethargy. Redesigned ‘bullworker’ elastic aileron cables, now disconnected from the control surfaces, increase pilot workload and fitness.

    Special noise retention cabin lining is an innovation on the XL, and it is hoped in later models to develop cabin noise to a level which will enable pilots to relate ear pain directly to engine power, eliminating the need for engine instruments altogether.

    We were offered an opportunity to fly the XL at Britten-Normans’ developmental facility, adjacent to the Britrail tea rooms at Little Chortling. (The flight was originally to have been conducted at the Pilatus plant, but aircraft of Britten-Norman design are now prohibited from operating in Swiss airspace during the avalanche season).
    For our mission profile, the XL was loaded with fossil fuel for a standard 100 nm with Britrail reserves, carrying one pilot and nine passengers to maximise discomfort.

    Passenger loading is unchanged, the normal under-wing protrusions inflicting serious lacerations on 71% of boarding passengers, and there was the usual entertaining confusion in selecting a door appropriate to the allocated seat.

    The facility for the clothing of embarking passengers to remove oil slicks from engine cowls during loading has also been thoughtfully retained.
    Startup is standard, and taxying, as in the BN-2, is accomplished by brute force. Takeoff calculations called for a 250 decibel power setting, and the rotation force for the (neutral) C of G was calculated as 180ft/lbs of back pressure.

    Initial warning of an engine failure during takeoff is provided by a reduction in flight instrument panel vibration. Complete seizure of one engine is indicated by the momentary illusion that the engines have suddenly and inexplicably become synchronised. Otherwise, identification of the failed engine is achieved by comparing the vibration levels of the windows on either side of the cabin. (Relative passenger pallor has been found to be an unreliable guide on many BN-2 routes because of ethnic considerations).

    Shortly after takeoff the XL’s chief test pilot, Capt. “Muscles” Mulligan, demonstrated the extent to which modem aeronautical design has left the BN-2 untouched; he simulated pilot incapacitation by slumping forward onto the control column, simultaneously applying full right rudder and bleeding from the ears. The XL, like its predecessor, demonstrated total control rigidity and continued undisturbed.

    Power was then reduced to 249 decibels for cruise, and we carried out some comparisons of actual flight performance with graph predictions.
    At 5000′ and ISA, we achieved a vibration amplitude of 500 CPS and 240 decibels, for a fuel flow of 210 lb/hr, making the BN-2 XL the most efficient converter of fuel to noise since the Titan rocket.

    Exploring the constant noise-variable speed and constant speed-variable noise concepts, we found that in a VNE dive, vibration reached its design maximum at 1000 CPS, at which point the limiting factor is the emulsification of human tissue. The catatonic condition of long term BN-2 pilots is attributed to this syndrome, which commences in the cerebral cortex and spreads outwards.

    We asked Capt. Mulligan what he considered the outstanding features of the XL. He cupped his hand behind his car and shouted. “Whazzat?”
    We returned to Britten-Norman field convinced that the XL model retains the marque’s most memorable features, while showing some significant and worthwhile regressions.”…….

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  211. cha (4,036 comments) says:

    Lots here for Blackbird fans.

    http://www.wvi.com/~sr71webmaster/sr-71~1.htm

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 2 You need to be logged in to vote
  212. All_on_Red (1,584 comments) says:

    Good speech from Brian Shul on that link Cha
    “I have always found it interesting that those arguing for the right to burn the flag, are usually the least willing to defend those rights, and are made free and kept so by better men than themselves.”
    He’s talking about you yoza, and not the better men part

    Vote: Thumb up 4 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  213. goldnkiwi (1,329 comments) says:

    Wouldn’t it be great if Winston did actually stand in East Coast Bays then he and Craig can be directly compared, policy wise especially, one venal and one with enthusiasm and ambition.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 5 You need to be logged in to vote
  214. Yoza (1,879 comments) says:

    All_on_Red (1,329 comments) says:
    July 19th, 2014 at 9:42 pm

    Good speech from Brian Shul on that link Cha
    “I have always found it interesting that those arguing for the right to burn the flag, are usually the least willing to defend those rights, and are made free and kept so by better men than themselves.”
    He’s talking about you yoza, and not the better men part

    The trouble with that bit of gibberish is all men on all sides of any war are fighting under the pretext of ‘defending the freedoms’ of their compatriots.

    Vote: Thumb up 2 Thumb down 1 You need to be logged in to vote
  215. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    So at the end of the day (or the beginning in this case) we can conclude that it was man’s greed that cost the lives of those 298 people.

    Either greed for increased profit, which stopped the airline from taking the precautionary move of not flying over a war zone, or the greed of two countries fighting over the same piece of land – one wanting what the other has, whatever type of greed it was – it killed all those innocent people who just wanted to be somewhere else, with someone they loved, or doing something they loved.

    It never seems to be those that are filled with ambitious hate that suffer from their actions. Historically it has always been that way, and futuristically, it looks set to be the same. What is a life worth – what are 298 lives worth?

    Vote: Thumb up 1 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote