General Debate 30 July 2014

July 30th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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319 Responses to “General Debate 30 July 2014”

  1. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/07/nbcnews-buries-its-own-journalists-eyes-modifies-gaza-story.html

    An Israeli strike, witnessed by an NBC journalist as being fired by a drone, turns into anonymous “missiles or rockets” in the second variant of the piece. This after the IDF came up with some of its typical “they did it” stories.

    The NBC journalist who witnessed the drone turns into anonymous “early reports from the ground”.

    There is no correction remark attached to the story.

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  2. Harriet (4,777 comments) says:

    “………“It’s fantastic to see parents making a real effort to work their problems out themselves. As a result, they avoid the unnecessary conflict, delays and expense the court process may involve, and the Family Court remains free to focus on the most serious and urgent matters.”…..” – Judith collins.

    FFS Minister how ignorant can you be, why are you not concerned about the conflict and expense that come much later on from divorce?

    Why are you so happy to see these non-violent males seperated from their sons?

    Arn’t these the role models that we need to solve ‘rape culture’ & ‘male violence’ ect? ——– As the jails you keep building are nearly all chock-a-block full of young males who have seen little of their natural fathers. Rapists for example. Kids from Marriages don’t go to jail for committing crimes.

    Celebrating the break-up of Marriages of non-violent adults where children are concerned is not ‘fantastic’ as you say, just ask the kids as they don’t see either parent as a threat.

    Children fair much better in life from having their childhoods cemented in their parents Marriages, where their health, education, employment, wealth ect are all far superior to those children not from Marriages. National productivity conservatives call it. Outcomes too.

    The most deepest blue National voter can see that your misguided concern is the slippery slope of the liberal progressivism that your party follows. ——– Is that really ‘progress’ Minister – celebrating the ease of which non-violent parents can divorce – when the results are so catastrophic for the children involved? – That is what you were doing Minister.

    And to think it just happens to be the bicentenary of NZ’s Christian beginnings too.

    Anyway, thanks Minister for not wanting anything to do with the Conservatives, as gaining votes would now be much easier for them I would imagine. :cool:

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  3. hj (6,836 comments) says:

    Chris Trotter says identity politcs has muddied the protest movement.

    But regardless of whether the deities they worshipped were religious or secular, the leaders of New Zealand’s protest movements shared a common assumption that their respective doctrines were universally applicable. Black or White, Male or Female – everyone was welcome in God’s Kingdom/the Proletarian Paradise. What united human-beings was more important than what divided them.

    It was only after the most convulsive protests in New Zealand history: the Springbok Tour Protests of 1981; that these universalist assumptions began to be challenged. Maori demanded to know what middle-class Pakehas could possibly know about racial and colonial oppression. Women wondered how men who preached racial equality could be so blind to inequality between the sexes. Gays struggled to make the straight world understand how oppressive a universal definition of sexuality could be.
    The things that divided human-beings were important too. The new left-wing catechism now held that people define themselves less by the qualities they share with everybody else than by the attributes peculiar to themselves and those similarly identified: gender; ethnicity; sexuality; nationality; religion.

    In this, the age of identity politics, protest activity operates according to a very different set of rules. The idea that New Zealanders per se might launch a series of nationwide protests inspired simply by Israel’s abrogation of universal moral values would quickly be challenged by persons and groups representative of the people most directly involved. In the case of Gaza and in descending order: by Palestinians; fellow Arabs and Muslims; people similarly victimised by imperialist oppression; and only then by “ordinary” New Zealanders – who must, of course, acknowledge the leadership and political objectives of those at the summit of the identity hierarchy.

    And so the anti-Israeli protesters chant “Palestine will be free – from the river to the sea!” And no one who expects to be invited back dreams of asking: “Free in what way? Do you mean two free and independent states living side-by-side in peace? Or, do you mean that from the River Jordan to the Mediterranean, Palestine will be free of Jews?”

    Because there’s a big difference.

    http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.co.nz/2014/07/the-changing-priorities-of-protest.html

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  4. Tauhei Notts (1,679 comments) says:

    52 days to go

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  5. tom hunter (4,687 comments) says:


    Are you having trouble getting people to care about your conflict?

    Do you find women and babies being murdered in your war are just not getting the attention they should?

    Then call the Israeli Defence Force (972 0800 IDF-YID)

    The IDF have spare platoons ready to be dispatched anywhere in the world at a moment’s notice.

    Your conflict need never be ignored again.

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    – red-faced finger-wagging that will convince anybody of their righteous anger.
    – occasional bursts of tears to demonstrate that they really care.

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    BBC, CNN and Al Jezeera TV camera crews sold separately.

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  6. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    While David Cunliffe keeps claiming Labour won’t do any electorate deals and continues to oppose coat tailing (in public) comments on KB and a post at No Minister suggest Kelvin Davis is not contesting Te Tai Tokerau.

    If that’s the case then Cunliffe would appear to be blatantly misleading with his claims.

    Cunliffe lying about electorate deals?

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  7. duggledog (1,501 comments) says:

    Hilarious to hear Guyon Espiner talking to a machine this morning on Morning Report. He really got hot under the collar spluttering on about how Maori privilege doesn’t exist in NZ. Closest I’ve ever heard him coming to losing it. Maybe he knew the Mrs would be listening.

    Whyte had to give him a little lecture on logic and laws, worth listening to if you can get hold of the audio.

    I think the argument shouldn’t necessarily be about racist privilege because it’s easy to come back with the argument that Maori must have help because they are so far behind in all the stats.

    The real argument should be the fact that it’s not working despite all the billions spent and will continue to be spent.

    In other words, pull out of a bad investment with very poor returns

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  8. James Stephenson (2,139 comments) says:

    I see that Nigel Latta’s making a play for Gareth Morgan’s “expert on everything” title. Anyone know what he thinks of cats?

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  9. Left Right and Centre (2,932 comments) says:

    Um . . . John Key is really ageing badly looks like. His face is seriously munted up now. Quite depressing – poor fella.

    Partly due to stress of being PM ?

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  10. EAD (943 comments) says:

    Good to see Jamie Whyte addressing the issue of race based privilege. He says in a very truthful manner “Maori are legally privileged in New Zealand today, just as the Aristocracy were legally privileged in pre-revolutionary France” and this has to stop. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/election-2014/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503581&objectid=11301011

    The sad thing is, the “mainstream” parties ignore these issues and work to maintain the status quo. It is one of the areas where politics in this country has essentially become a joke as our nation is effectively controlled by a one-party ideology where each election allows us citizens a little hope by offering us a choice of which of the two/three political parties we can submit our will to and that if we just vote for them this time, things will be different……..but they never are.

    Come election time, the media and political commentariat then encourage debate only within the limited scope of the this one party ideological system. This forces debate to go round and round in circles, while the major agendas are implemented regardless of whichever of the parties is put in power.

    I can’t remember who said it but there is a quote that says “The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum….”

    Good to see Jamie Whyte smash that spectrum to pieces.

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  11. Redbaiter (8,310 comments) says:

    One of the National-led Government’s final acts in Parliament this term will be to lower the legal drink-driving limit, which means motorists will face stricter rules before Christmas.

    Keep voting for Helen Key and his gang of nanny state Labour lite imposters won’t you, you poor suckers.

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  12. hj (6,836 comments) says:

    Good to hear Jamie Whyte challenging race based privilege as he is smart enough (trained in philosophy). We need people to challenge these sacred cows. Don Nickelson gets an :”F” for claiming their isn’t enough evidence on rivers.

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  13. Harriet (4,777 comments) says:

    Ugly, about your link, Moon of Alabama.org ?

    And you expect people to take you seriously?

    no ugly. they won’t. :cool:

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  14. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    Yes Bedwetter, its a really good idea to have pissed people driving on our roads.

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  15. Other_Andy (2,570 comments) says:

    120 years of Global Cooling ™, global warming ™, Global Cooling ™, global warming ™, Global Cooling ™, global warming ™, Global Cooling ™ and global warming ™.

    NEW!
    Now with carbon tax and 97.543% of all scientists supporting global warming ™.

    http://butnowyouknow.net/those-who-fail-to-learn-from-history/climate-change-timeline/

    The science is settled, follow the sheeple and pay your carbon tax!

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  16. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    VIDEO — Israelis Chant: “There’s No School Tomorrow, There’s No Children Left in Gaza! Oleh!”

    http://www.imemc.org/article/68652

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  17. eszett (2,394 comments) says:

    “Maori are legally privileged in New Zealand today, just as the Aristocracy were legally privileged in pre-revolutionary France”

    Yeah, those bloody Maori in their castles and palaces, living of caviar and champagne all day. A disgrace.

    Bring out the guillotines!

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  18. kowtow (8,175 comments) says:

    Where’s the outrage?

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2709433/The-Islamic-State-Killing-Fields-Terror-group-releases-horrifying-video-showing-drive-shootings-suicide-bombings-dozens-victims-rounded-executed.html

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  19. Left Right and Centre (2,932 comments) says:

    Helen Key hahahahahahaha side-splitting certifiable double platinum LOL genius

    No ? Ok – certifiable genius then.

    Still not satisfied. Hmmm. Certifiable. Happy now ??

    Yours sincerely – vermin POS bludger scum vermin fucktard get off general debate you vermin anus licker.

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  20. hj (6,836 comments) says:

    Other_Andy (2,293 comments) says:
    we now have the weather we have always had but with a new improved atmosphere.
    “The history of the scientific discovery of climate change began in the early 19th century when ice ages and other natural changes in paleoclimate were first suspected and the natural greenhouse effect first identified. In the late 19th century, scientists first argued that human emissions of greenhouse gases could change the climate. Many other theories of climate change were advanced, involving forces from volcanism to solar variation. In the 1960s, the warming effect of carbon dioxide gas became increasingly convincing, although some scientists also pointed out that human activities, in the form of atmospheric aerosols (e.g., “pollution”), could have cooling effects as well. During the 1970s, scientific opinion increasingly favored the warming viewpoint. By the 1990s, as a result of improving fidelity of computer models and observational work confirming the Milankovitch theory of the ice ages, a consensus position formed: greenhouse gases were deeply involved in most climate changes, and human emissions were bringing serious global warming. Since the 1990s, scientific research on climate change has included multiple disciplines and has expanded, significantly increasing our understanding of causal relations, links with historic data and ability to numerically model climate change. The most recent work has been summarized in the Assessment Reports by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.”
    Wikipedia

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  21. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    The Southern Alps mountain range in New Zealand has seen a loss of ice volume by 34% since 1977. Researchers have blamed the rapid loss on rising global temperatures and say this is a growing trend.

    Researchers looked at data taken from the annual summer surveys by the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric research (Niwa) and found rapid ice loss across glaciers in the region.

    Niwa conducted annual aerial surveys over New Zealand’s Southern Alps mountain range to measure the snowline for 50 glaciers. With these results researchers found ice losses have been accelerating rapidly for the past 15 years.
    http://blueandgreentomorrow.com/2014/07/29/new-zealands-glaciers-show-decline-due-to-global-warming/

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  22. James Stephenson (2,139 comments) says:

    Partly due to stress of being PM ?

    Look at a photo of yourself from six years ago. Stress probably doesn’t help, but on the available evidence, running NZ is easier than managing a Premiership football team.

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  23. RF (1,367 comments) says:

    Useless Cunners flip flopping all over the place about the Crim party and Hone party. Yea.. Nah sums him up beautifully. The pious prick is so thick he could not run a bath let alone an election.

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  24. eszett (2,394 comments) says:

    “I’ve got no interest in Maori-bashing as a political game.”
    – Jamie Whyte in January this year.

    I guess being on 0.0% in the polls changes everything.

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  25. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Ugly, about your link, Moon of Alabama.org ?

    Here’s an account from a reporter from NBC, not sure if it was the same reporter who says he saw the Israeli drone strike close to Shifa hospital, Gaza’a main hospital.

    http://paulmasonnews.tumblr.com/post/93149833609/shifa-and-beach-camp-attacks-my-evidence

    So a review of evidence: I heard two loud bangs – which I assumed one was the firing the other the impact. If the two bangs were two impacts of rockets gone wrong, they happened so close to each other that it must have been a volley of two rockets. Yet I saw no trails in the sky. If they were rockets they will have been shot from somewhere in Gaza towards somewhere in Israel. Both impacts were close to the Western coast of Gaza and landed about 1km away from each other, and 2-3 seconds apart. So that is a double misfire, by a volley aimed in the same direction, that ends up with a 1km spread impact but in the wrong direction. Ie both go wrong in the same way.

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  26. Harriet (4,777 comments) says:

    “….The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum………”

    Quite so EAD.

    Prisoners who want to live happy doing a lifetime in prison simply lower their horizons……

    ……..National voters are much like that. :cool:

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  27. dirty harry (446 comments) says:

    Funny how all the racist slime crawl out from under their rocks, hysterical, whenever maori privalage is put under the spotlight.

    The truth hurts soooo bad doesn’t it Flavell. You and your ilk make me puke. Separatist bastards.

    We’re onto you…your gravy train is soon to be derailed.

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  28. Cunningham (836 comments) says:

    eszett (2,336 comments) says:

    “I guess being on 0.0% in the polls changes everything.”

    FFS so no one is allowed to even challenge anything to do with maori anymore without being labelled a ‘maori basher’?

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  29. Redbaiter (8,310 comments) says:

    “….The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum………”

    Only occasionally look at Whaleoil but man what a hopeless echo chamber that has developed into.

    Everybody agreeing with one another about how correct Slater’s posts are.

    I guess that’s what happens when you have a collection of power drunk ego driven “moderators” all of the same political persuasion working for a self promoting Prog National Party die hard.

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  30. Other_Andy (2,570 comments) says:

    “Niwa conducted annual aerial surveys over New Zealand’s Southern Alps mountain range to measure the snowline for 50 glaciers. With these results researchers found ice losses have been accelerating rapidly for the past 15 years.”

    Now that’s funny because…..

    A March 2005 survey of 50 glaciers in New Zealand by the National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research (NIWA) found that on average, the glaciers in New Zealand’s Southern Alps had gained considerably more ice than they had lost during the previous year.
    The gains were due to increased snow in the Southern Alps, particularly from late winter to early summer of the previous year, at which time temperatures were 0.6°C below average, producing more snow.
    ‘Over the past three years, the glaciers have gained in mass, halting the declines seen between 1998 and 2002,’ said NIWA principal scientist Dr Jim Salinger at the time. ‘This past year was the seventh-largest gain since we started aerial surveys in 1977.

    http://www.geographical.co.uk/Magazine/Dossiers/Sounding_the_retreat_-_Dec_2007.html

    This was originally published at
    http://www.niwa.co.nz/pubs/mr/archive/2005-08-30-1
    The original link has disappeared.
    I wonder why?

    Do you notice the line:
    “….particularly from late winter to early summer of the previous year, at which time temperatures were 0.6°C below average..”

    After the adjustments to the New Zealand temperature record in 2008 the cooling was replaced by…..warming.

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  31. James Stephenson (2,139 comments) says:

    Exactly Cunningham, it’s a debate that they want shut down before it starts.

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  32. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ Harriet (4,519 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 8:01 am

    I agree Harriet. It is more of the same old story from this government, and previous governments. Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff stuff.

    IF the government must play mediator and take on the role of domestic guardian, then they should be putting their efforts into keeping families together. Working on whatever it is that stresses family’s into breaking up, and re-enforcing the values that will keep the family in the one home. There is virtually no problem that a married couple faces, that cannot be overcome with the right amount of support. It has become the default to just walk away but if tackled early enough, and if couples are taught to recognise the early warning signs that their relationship is in trouble, then it can be worked on.

    Children are always the victims – and I believe it should not be the Governments role to facilitate in breaking up a family – be it peacefully or otherwise. Instead every effort, and motivation should go towards the ideal of a united family. Kids need both their parents, and even if the parents no longer love each other, being a family is still possible.

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  33. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    Kelvin Davis has said this morning about Labour throwing Te Tai Tokerau: “That is a pure beat up. Im out to win the seat.” But he hasn’t responded yet when I asked when he was putting hoardings up.

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  34. Paulus (2,598 comments) says:

    Heard Jamie White this morning re Race Based Laws.
    Espiner was quite hysterical at times and of course tried to make the interview of himself, as White just carried his points.
    Winston is of the same view.
    Flavell was unable to get any points home though as he is still living in the past, and cannot accept that the country has moved on past Financial grievances, which should be over by now with Maori seats to follow. I expect that he will be the sole lonely Maori Party member in September. Labour will capture all the others.
    I also see that one Maori settlement, Taupo area tribe has lost ? millions of their settlement through their own initiatives so I suppose they will come back for more as a consequence. They are looking to sue each other now.
    Have considered my Party vote for some time.
    As a staunch National Party voter all my life I am now considering my party vote for ACT.
    Will decide at the time.

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  35. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    Um . . . John Key is really ageing badly looks like. His face is seriously munted up now. Quite depressing – poor fella.

    Partly due to stress of being PM ?

    Cunliffe seems to have changed markedly over the last year too.

    Just about anyone who has experienced the fifties will know that for most people it’s the age when one’s appearance “transitions the most”.

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  36. Maggy Wassilieff (319 comments) says:

    @ EAD; @ Harriet
    Quote is from Noam Chomsky “The Common Good”.

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  37. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    After the adjustments to the New Zealand temperature record in 2008 the cooling was replaced by…..warming.

    Strangely enough, anomalous adjustments are not limited to NZ:

    http://joannenova.com.au/tag/australian-temperatures/

    The raw Australian data suggest the nation warmed by 0.6 °C over the last century. The BOM adjustments lift that to 1.05 °C.

    http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2014/06/23/noaanasa-dramatically-altered-us-temperatures-after-the-year-2000/

    Right after the year 2000, NASA and NOAA dramatically altered US climate history, making the past much colder and the present much warmer.

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  38. WineOh (629 comments) says:

    @ Winston Peters

    I think you’d have a lot more people believing you when you talk about refusing to enter government with either Mana or Maori parties if you hadn’t clearly demonstrated in so many occasions in the past that your word doesn’t count for much.

    And for the record, I don’t believe he is searching for the ‘baubles of office’ – just relevance.

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  39. Dave Mann (1,203 comments) says:

    On the Jamie Whyte/Race based privilege thing, I was disgusted to read Radio New Zealand’s leading sentence on their website thus:

    “The ACT Party has intensified its rhetoric against what it calls race-based law.”

    RHETORIC? This is partisan socialist radio at its worst. Why are we paying for this bunch of racist propagandists to feed us their revolting agenda at every turn? I can imagine a private media outlet putting their slant on the news, but these people are supposed to be objective aren’t they?

    Its about time National gave these creeps an ultimatum to either clean up their act or be closed down, frankly.

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  40. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    Other andy
    I give the latest long term results over fifty years and you go and find the results for a change between one year and the next
    This is a strangely familiar pattern for your denial.
    Its called cherry picking. Taking a small section of available data and using it to confirm your bias wile ignoring any thing that doesn’t.
    By the way increasing rain/snow fall is a regional effect of global warming due to more water vapor held in a warmer atmosphere. This is also a positive feed back for increasing co2.
    That the increasing snow fall is overwhelmed by increasing melt is also apparent.

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  41. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    Maori are over represented in almost every negative social statistic, so now the powers that be, in all their great wisdom, and desire for votes, from other great thinkers, are going to stop any preferential treatment. They are going to stop targeting support for Maori.

    Do any of you great thinkers stop to consider the implications of that?

    Even in your ivory towers do you think that if Maori are not given assistance to reduce this disparity, that you will be immune from a further deterioration?

    I, for one, do not want to see the targeted support cease – I want to see the negative statistics improve so that Maori, just like every other New Zealander are living to their full potential. It’s not about equality, its about equity, which sometimes means those groups who are failing get the assistance they need to improve.

    If they don’t – not only do they suffer – but we all do – so if you can’t feel compassion for them, at least think of yourself, and what the implications of higher crime stats etc will mean for you.

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  42. flash2846 (260 comments) says:

    @ UglyTruth Today at 8:00 am –
    Fool!, on the ground and without training and experience it is extremely difficult to determine where a missile actually comes from. Your time/distance of awareness is within two seconds and 100 metres at best. Drones are constantly on the move so pinpointing the launch without satellite help is about impossible. Fancy accepting technical advice on weapons from a journalist; good grief!

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  43. All_on_Red (1,558 comments) says:

    “Niwa conducted annual aerial surveys over New Zealand’s ”

    That’s odd. I flew back and forth to Queenstown the other day and looking out the window it all looked the same to me/sarc
    You really are the gullible Village Idiot Griff. How is that 6 Degree C increase in temp coming along. That’s a huge increase for the “Rolf Harris’s” at NIWA and GISS to fiddle. I see your hero from SKS aka skank science has been caught lying again.
    Nice research Andy and UT.
    Did you see the latest Paper which was supported by data from the EPA saying Mankind’s share of CO2 emissions was only 3%?
    That’s right 97% of the atmosphere agrees that their CO2 is from natural sources. Lol.

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  44. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Contributions? What contributions?
    On Sunday, President Obama and First Lady Michelle released a statement thanking Muslim Americans for their many “achievements and contributions… to building the very fabric of our nation and strengthening the core of our democracy.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/07/28/Obama-Celebrates-Muslim-Contributions-to-the-USA

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  45. All_on_Red (1,558 comments) says:

    Griff
    “You go and find the results for a change between one year and the next”

    Andy
    ‘This past year was the seventh-largest gain since we started aerial surveys in 1977.”

    Since 1977. That’s 37 years . And you say 1 year and cherry picking. Is it any wonder we all think you’re such a dumb c**t.
    Griff the gullible Village Idiot.

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  46. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Fool!, on the ground and without training and experience it is extremely difficult to determine where a missile actually comes from.

    Fuckwit, a reporter from NBC said there were no missile trails, and another report from NBC said that their reporter witnessed the drone strike.

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  47. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    We had the court case over the niwa temperature record.
    The wingnuts lost and have refused to pay the cost of their failed attempt.
    Here is a Link that is easy to follow of those adjustments any one with a brain can see the reason for the adjustments when the recorder was moved from Albert park to mangere airport due to repeated vandalism
    We also had an independent new study of the global long term temperature record by a known skeptic
    BEST
    the result.
    http://berkeleyearth.org/summary-of-findings
    Berkeley Earth has carefully studied issues raised by skeptics, such as possible biases from urban heating, data selection, poor station quality, and data adjustment. We have demonstrated that these do not unduly bias the results.
    :lol:
    love it that we have ugly truth on the side of the wing nuts
    loony club.
    :lol:

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  48. All_on_Red (1,558 comments) says:

    Andy
    Did you read Griff’s link to “Blue and Green”?
    Apparently there’s RECORD warming occurring. The West Antarctic ice is melting and it’s UNSTOPPABLE !
    The sky is falling, the sky is falling.
    You gotta think these people just live a constant circle jerk with their blinkers on and a refusal to look at any other scientific research published in sources other than their own little biased confirming world. It’s a Village of idiots.

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  49. eszett (2,394 comments) says:

    Cunningham (816 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 8:33 am
    eszett (2,336 comments) says:

    “I guess being on 0.0% in the polls changes everything.”

    FFS so no one is allowed to even challenge anything to do with maori anymore without being labelled a ‘maori basher’?

    You are right, Cunningham, comparing Maori to the French aristocracy is a thoughtful and intelligent way to challenge anything to do with Maori.

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  50. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    love it that we have ugly truth on the side of the wing nuts loony club.

    Didn’t you once post that you were crazy and that you were only here for the entertainment, Griff?

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  51. WineOh (629 comments) says:

    Regarding Jamie Whyte, this is the first time I’ve heard (could be wrong) the distinct differentiation between “constitutional racial privilege” and material outcomes. Jamie rightfully points out that Maori rate poorly in most of the usual social metrics, income, life expectancy being the two most important. Guyon tried to deflect the issue to focus on the latter, instead of acknowledging the former. Attempting to get him to commit to investigating racial bias in the justice system was a curious one, and Jamie came up with a terrific zinger in response. I’m paraphrasing here:

    Guyon Espiner: Maori form xx% of the prison population, doesn’t that demonstrate a bias in the justice system.
    Jamie Whyte: Men form 95% of the prison population, that doesn’t mean that the justice system is prejudiced against Men.

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  52. Yvette (2,765 comments) says:

    The smaller political parties are trying to “out-redneck” each other, Maori Party co-leader Te Ururoa Flavell says.
    … Indulging himself in whatever the Maori equivalent is to red-necking or racial putdown.

    And comparing Maori to the French aristocracy – “Let them eat McDonalds” – Marie Antoinette

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  53. All_on_Red (1,558 comments) says:

    Ah the so called “sceptic” from Best. The fact you cling to Stevenson screen measurements just proves what a dumb c**t you are.
    The margin of error is from .8- 2 degrees C (according to the IPCC) regardless of how Best has tried to clean them up and yet you believe results claiming increases of tenths of a Degree from that source.Yep, gullible Village Idiot.
    Oh, did you realise that your beloved RSS satellite is falling out of orbit and already they are adjusting the data.

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  54. Harriet (4,777 comments) says:

    Thanks Maggy.

    Judith#

    Thanks too, although I was expecting you to give me reasons other than violence for people getting divorced. I’m glad you didn’t.

    All the other reasons are just plain selfishness on the part of at least one of them, and it doesn’t take too much to turn people like that around. However when their friends and family have done the same previously, and more and more are doing so these days, then there is really no one left to speak of the harm to the children, and if they do speak out they are then ‘offending’ a lot of parents and children.

    National and Labour are all over the place when it comes to promoting ‘best practice’ and it is all due to tolerance and inclusiveness. They don’t want to offend people. National is unwilling to value good from bad.

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  55. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    Griff
    “You go and find the results for a change between one year and the next”

    Andy
    This past year was the seventh-largest gain since we started aerial surveys in 1977.”

    Projection is a factor in you being called a wingnut all in red
    you have been proven again as a idiot

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  56. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    Another prominent person seeking name suppression, this time a lawyer:

    A prominent Wellington lawyer is fighting to keep his name secret after being charged with drug offences.

    Police say they found methamphetamine, LSD and ecstasy when they raided his house, office and car this month.

    The man cannot be identified after he applied for an urgent order from the High Court last night to keep his name secret.

    When first contacted by The Dominion Post on Monday, he flatly denied that he had been charged personally and said he was due to appear in court regarding clients’ records that had been seized by police.

    “No, no, not me,” he said. “No, no, there was, no, that’s not right . . . I haven’t appeared in court.”

    When asked directly if he had been involved personally in drugs in any way, he again said no.

    “There’s all sorts of rumours going around . . . but . . . I’d be very careful there, man, because you know defamation and all that type of thing.”

    Yesterday, when contacted again and told that police had confirmed he was facing charges, the lawyer continued to deny any knowledge.

    “I haven’t been charged with anything. I haven’t been served with them,” he said.

    Police confirmed that the lawyer had been charged with possession of methamphetamine, LSD and ecstasy, as well as possession of drug utensils. He has yet to make his first court appearance on the charges.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/10325442/Lawyer-charged-over-drugs

    If he succeeds in protecting his own identity he casts suspicion on all prominent male Wellington lawyers.

    People seeking legal services need to be able to have confidence they are dealing with a clean lawyer.

    Yeah, innocent until proven guilty. But the other prominent male Wellington lawyers are innocent and shouldn’t have suspicions cast on them.

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  57. flipper (3,947 comments) says:

    Griff (6,766 comments) says:

    July 30th, 2014 at 8:18 am

    The Southern Alps mountain range in New Zealand has seen a loss of ice volume by 34% since 1977.

    ****
    …..and other bullshit attributed to “researchers”. at NIWA and elsewhere.

    I normally now ignore the ignoramus with the sobriquet “griff” (or derivations thereof), but the reference to “researchers” (troughers) and NIWA (about as reliable as those folks who predict earthquakes), in the same contribution caused me to rattle off a comment, without resorting to endless, useless links.

    There are about 160,000 glaciers worldwide. Of these about 80 have been studied in any detail, and only about 100 more have had a cursory inspection.

    Some are retreating, some are not. Some that have been retreating in recent years are expanding again. Our Fox and Franz Josef glaciers have retreated about 2 km. Superficially, this sounds compelling until one reads the road sign marking the glacier’s greatest extent, which states 1750.

    IPCC in Feb 2010 were forced to acknowledge that its headline grabbing stories of Himalayan glacier melts were totally unsubstantiated – and this after its millionaire rail road engineer Chairman, Rajendra Pachauri, had described an Indian government statement questioning this conclusion as being based on “voodoo science”.

    One of my colleagues has observed, when commenting on the many brain-less comments of red melon Green lister and trougher, Kennedy Graham that:

    “It transpired that the IPCC line, carried in AR4, was based on World Wildlife Fund propaganda unsupported by any science at all. This revelation was rapidly followed by the exposure of several other false IPCC claims. Financially, Pachauri has been exposed as having massive conflicts of interest. His reply? “They’re of interest to me, so are not conflicting.”

    But griff, or whoever you are his week or next, as I am sure you and those snouting “researchers” troughing at NIWA are really aware, glacier advance and retreat has little to do with melting. The principal mechanism is a phenomenon known as molecular creep.

    That comment is more than you are worth, so, good morning :-)

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  58. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    The rss is always falling out of orbit all in red.
    That you dont even know this is proof you talk of stuff you have Know knowledge of

    The rss derived temperature rerecord is made up of a series of satellites due to this reason.

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  59. SGA (983 comments) says:

    James Stephenson at 8:19 am

    Look at a photo of yourself from six years ago. Stress probably doesn’t help, but on the available evidence, running NZ is easier than managing a Premiership football team.

    So, Alex Ferguson for PM you reckon? He’s sort of under-employed at the moment :-)
    (No, not a Man U fanatic, in case you were wondering)

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  60. G152 (274 comments) says:

    Apparently there’s RECORD warming occurring. The West Antarctic ice is melting and it’s UNSTOPPABLE !
    The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

    The only trouble with the claim is that ice/water water/ice occurs at 0c…
    The Antarctic summer gets all the way up to -10c real shirtsleeve weather

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  61. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ Harriet (4,520 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 9:13 am

    Even violence can be worked through. Although no one should stay in a house where it is occurring, and I would always recommend to get the hell out of there – the fact is that over time, and with sufficient support, it can be overcome and a relationship can still work.

    I have friends who both had affairs, but they got past it, and with lots of work, for the sake of their children, they stayed together. They have just become great-grandparents, and I recently went to the baby’s christening. They are one big happy (most of the time) family. I thought about what that celebration would have been like if they had split all those years earlier. I doubt it would ever have taken place – and certainly wouldn’t have been the great event it was.

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  62. James Stephenson (2,139 comments) says:

    @SGA – now that you mention it, who wouldn’t love to see our “journalists” having to deal with Fergie?

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  63. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    There are about 160,000 glaciers worldwide. Of these about 80 have been studied in any detail, and only about 100 more have had a cursory inspection.
    :lol:
    What a load of flipped out nonsense
    One small region of the usa
    http://nrmsc.usgs.gov/files/norock/products/GNP_Table2.pdf
    In Glacier National Park (GNP), MT some effects of global climate change are strikingly clear. Glacier recession is underway, and many glaciers have already disappeared. The retreat of these small alpine glaciers reflects changes in recent climate as glaciers respond to altered temperature and precipitation. It has been estimated that there were approximately 150 glaciers present in 1850, and most glaciers were still present in 1910 when the park was established. In 2010, we consider there to be only 25 glaciers larger than 25 acres remaining in GNP. A computer-based climate model predicts that some of the park’s largest glaciers will vanish by 2030 (Hall and Fagre, 2003). This is only one model prediction but, if true, then the park’s glaciers could disappear in the next several decades. However, glacier disappearance may occur even earlier, as many of the glaciers are retreating faster than their predicted rates.

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  64. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    ““Maori are legally privileged in New Zealand today, just as the Aristocracy were legally privileged in pre-revolutionary France”

    Oh dear. Jamie is getting into moonbat territory. That is a truly terrible analogy. Pity he didn’t add history to his philosophy training.

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  65. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Only occasionally look at Whaleoil but man what a hopeless echo chamber that has developed into.”

    Much like your own blog Red! :)

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  66. All_on_Red (1,558 comments) says:

    “The rss is always falling out of orbit all in red.
    That you dont even know this is proof you talk of stuff you have Know knowledge of”

    Wow, the moron is strong in you today little Village Idiot. What on earth does this statement mean? You’re agreeing with me and yet at the same time saying I have “know” (sic) knowledge?
    What a dumb c**t.
    Oh well at least we have the Nasa UAH series to use. But according to you since ONE of the scientists who worked on it is a CHRISTIAN ( Dr Roy Spencer) the any results are to be ignored. And scoffed at.
    Back to your circle jerk.

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  67. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Fuckwit, a reporter from NBC said there were no missile trails, and another report from NBC said that their reporter witnessed the drone strike.”

    How do we know UglyNazi? You have not given us any evidence of that. Your first link was too a conspiracy web site that did not source it’s claim, and the second link is, tellingly, not there anymore.

    Post from credible sources FUCKWIT or STFU.

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  68. Maggy Wassilieff (319 comments) says:

    @ Griff et al (9:07am)

    “We had the court case over the niwa temperature record.”

    And this is one of my concerns…. There should never have been a Court Case. All the NIWA adjustments and Science behind them have been funded by Public money…. We own the information.
    I could never understand why Jim Salinger made a big deal about getting access to his Ph.D thesis. The husband and I were doing our PhDs at Vic at the same time as Salinger (All in different Depts tho’). We gave permission for the University Library to give free access to our theses…..and why shouldn’t we…. We’d been supported by public money and had used publicly owned facilities for our University life….. No different for Salinger as far as I can see.

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  69. EAD (943 comments) says:

    @ kowtow (7,626 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 8:17 am

    absolutely shocking what is going on with these ISIS bast*rds. Just like Gaddafi, the US should never have got involved in Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein as the chaos that ensued just highlights that these people needed to be led by a firm hand. It is just another botched American attempt to “bring democracy” to the world that ends up with millions slaughtered for no purpose.

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  70. kowtow (8,175 comments) says:

    Secular Turkey? Yeah right.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/turkey/10998133/Women-should-not-laugh-out-loud-in-public-Turkeys-deputy-prime-minister-says.html

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  71. Newbie (44 comments) says:

    On the Nigel Latta programme last night, it’s said that there’s $5B-6B in unpaid taxes by NZers. If that is correct, what, if anything, is the IRD/government doing about it?

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  72. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Is anyone else suspicious about the timing of the Nigel Latta series?

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  73. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    Jamie will have (or should have) known he was getting into very touchy territory. If he’s going to bring up contentious issues he has to be able to argue his case without hissy fitting. He seems to be struggling, as RadioLive political editor Jessica Williams ‏(@mizjwilliams) tweets:

    oh my god, now Jamie Whyte is complaining that he was misrepresented yesterday. and moaning about the media giving him a hard time.

    Journalists are now the “thought police”, and “no one has even tried to explain where my argument goes wrong”, says Jamie Whyte.

    Jamie Whyte, I listened to @LloydBurr interviewing yoy. he tried to discuss the errors in your speech. You shut him down, accusing him of . not being able to either read or think. Now who’s being offensive? Lloyd holds 2 degrees and is an extremely intelligent man. He just wanted to challenge you on some of your assertions, as he would to ANY other politician. that is what journalists DO.

    I’ll finish w a quote from Enoch Powell, @JamieWhyteACT. He said MPs complaining about the media is like sailors complaining about the sea.

    Now I’m not in the habit of quoting Enoch Powell, because obviously. But I sense ACT may listen to him, if they don’t listen to me.

    Here’s the modern MP-on-twitter pentathlon: opine; mineminemine; whine; toe the line; resign.

    Learning to deal with the media is an essential for any party leader. Labour have resorted to whining about the media being mean to them, it hasn’t done them any good. Neither will it do Whyte or Act any good.

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  74. EAD (943 comments) says:

    Equality before law is a contentious issue Pete?

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  75. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,400 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 9:47 am
    Is anyone else suspicious about the timing of the Nigel Latta series?

    Why Shawn? Because it is unflattering to the current government, and the electorate shouldn’t know the reality, but only what the governments spin doctors have to say?

    You have a problem with voters being informed?

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  76. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    EAD – if you see the reaction Whyte’s interview has provoked then yes, very contentious.

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  77. publicwatchdog (2,516 comments) says:

    Laila Harre is standing in Helensville for the Internet/Mana Party.

    Hopefully, this will encourage Prime Minister John Key to participate in Helensville electorate candidate debates.

    I look forward to voters who support candidates who are members of political parties, giving them their PARTY vote, and giving me their ELECTORATE vote as the (fiercely) Independent MP for Helensville.

    All good!

    Penny Bright

    http://www.dodgyjohnhasgone.com

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  78. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Just like Gaddafi, the US should never have got involved in Iraq to remove Saddam Hussein as the chaos that ensued just highlights that these people needed to be led by a firm hand. It is just another botched American attempt to “bring democracy” to the world that ends up with millions slaughtered for no purpose.”

    Removing Saddam did not create ISIS. What did was Obama’s get out fast strategy which left Iraq exposed.

    The lesson is that Republican hawks are better than Democratic cowards.

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  79. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    maggy

    The data was supplied to the wing nuts three years before the case.
    http://hot-topic.co.nz/nz-sceptics-lie-about-temp-records-try-to-smear-top-scientist/

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  80. freemark (558 comments) says:

    “In 2010, we consider there to be only 25 glaciers larger than 25 acres remaining in GNP. A computer-based climate model predicts that some of the park’s largest glaciers will vanish by 2030 (Hall and Fagre, 2003). This is only one model prediction but, if true, then the park’s glaciers could disappear in the next several decades. However, glacier disappearance may occur even earlier, as many of the glaciers are retreating faster than their predicted rates.”

    “we consider” – we being already convinced alarmists.
    “a computer based climate model predicts” – yes, we all know how reliable & susceptible to alarmist manipulation they are
    “only one..but, if true” – but, but, if, if,
    “could disappear in the next several decades” – could, several..
    “may occur even earlier” – the sky may fall down too..earlier or later than chicken little yelled..
    “than their predicted rate” – see the bit about predictions above…

    So, we add up this latest alarmism from our chief gullible fool, and add it to the fact that “Mankind’s share of CO2 emissions was only 3%?”
    Hmmm, anyone see a pattern here (or a diagnosis?)
    :)

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  81. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘Obama’s get out fast strategy which left Iraq exposed’
    Now you know that’s completely wrong, so why would you say it?

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  82. EAD (943 comments) says:

    It might be contentious for those that live in the Wellington Beltway bubble but for the rest of us it is common sense.

    Actually, come to think of it I’m surprised Mr common sense himself, Pete Dunne hasn’t campaigned on it?

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  83. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Why Shawn? Because it is unflattering to the current government,”

    No, because the election should be between the government and the opposition, and not the government vs the opposition + the media.

    “and the electorate shouldn’t know the reality”

    Who’s version of reality?

    “but only what the governments spin doctors have to say?”

    Duh. People should hear from all the political parties contesting the election. The media is not a political party, and should not behave as one. Doing so corrupts democracy.

    “You have a problem with voters being informed?”

    I have a problem with voters being misled by biased media trying to interfere in an election.

    Next silly question Judith. :)

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  84. kowtow (8,175 comments) says:

    Trouble at the top with China’s Commie Comrades. Bank directorships of Commie Fronts may not be so attractive in the medium future……when the shit really hits the fan in the Workers’ Paradise.

    http://www.thestandard.com.hk/news_detail.asp?pp_cat=31&art_id=147852&sid=42711206&con_type=1

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  85. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Now you know that’s completely wrong, so why would you say it?”

    Hi Mike. If you want to engage with me, telling me what you think I should think and then effectively saying I’m being dishonest for not doing so will not get you far.

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  86. EAD (943 comments) says:

    “The lesson is that Republican hawks are better than Democratic cowards”

    Are you a neo-con Shaun?

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  87. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Are you a neo-con Shaun?”

    Define “neo-con.”

    I know what it means, but given the way it’s used by some I need to know your definition.

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  88. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    freemark
    It says, for your obvious inability to read. the models underestimate the melt.
    We know this from observing the glacial retreat. We can estimate when they will dissipated totally by their present speed of retreat but without a time travailing machine we can not be sure hence the word “may”
    We can even see it in photographs.
    http://nrmsc.usgs.gov/repeatphoto/
    That you wingnuts continue to denigrate all attempts at measuring global warming is very obvious from today’s thread.

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  89. flipper (3,947 comments) says:

    Newbie (36 comments) says:

    July 30th, 2014 at 9:45 am

    On the Nigel Latta programme last night, it’s said that there’s $5B-6B in unpaid taxes by NZers. If that is correct, what, if anything, is the IRD/government doing about it?

    ***

    As another commenter has observed, the timing AND CONTENT of Latta’s programme is suspiciously similar to the TV 3 bullshit programming in 2011.

    And the line on tax evasion is identical to that pushed by labour. But that canard is rejected by every study undertaken by qualified folk (not bought economists who do not know the difference between shit and clay) working in the tax area – including IRD and Treasury.

    AND we will be subjected to similar specious Latta claims on a variety of other “issues”, including the lie that there are some 260,000 New Zealand children living in poverty. Oh, that is right: their parents don’t pay for Sky and don’t take them on overseas holidays …… dear, dear, dear….

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  90. Maggy Wassilieff (319 comments) says:

    @ Griff 9:52am…. Yep, I know all this stuff.
    The point I want to make is that something has gone drastically wrong with the delivery of publicly-funded science in NZ when it has been reduced to the slanging match that developed between NIWA scientists, their proponents and the Climate Science Coalition.

    You have taken the position that the scientists have spoken and their word is correct.
    I have an open mind as to why and what was going on here. As you will recall the Judge in the case said it wasn’t the Court’s job to determine or resolve tricky scientific questions.

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  91. EAD (943 comments) says:

    Do you support pre-emptive wars or wars against enemies that can never be defeated I.e. the “war on terror”

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  92. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Do you support pre-emptive wars or wars against enemies that can never be defeated”

    That’s not a definition of a neo-conservative.

    Try again son.

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  93. Other_Andy (2,570 comments) says:

    All_on_Red says at 9:08 am

    “Apparently there’s RECORD warming occurring. The West Antarctic ice is melting and it’s UNSTOPPABLE !”

    No and yes.
    No, there’s no RECORD warming occurring but yes, The West Antarctic (land) ice is melting.

    Sea Ice
    Sea ice around Antarctica is at an all time record.
    No surprise as Southern hemisphere ocean temperatures have been slightly cooling in the last 10 years.

    Land Ice
    Cooler temperatures means less precipitation so glaciers grow less.
    Land ice isn’t declining much except in West Antarctica

    Why is there a temperature anomaly (Increase) in West Antarctica as temperature (Ocean and Land) has not increased this century in the southern Hemisphere?
    HADDSST3 SH sea surface temperature June 2000 to June 2014 – http://tinyurl.com/mc46bg3
    CRUTEM3 Variance adjusted land SH mean June 2000 to June 2014 – http://tinyurl.com/m4xgllm

    One possibility….
    West Antarctica is part of the Ring of Fire. The West Antarctic Ice Sheet is, in places, over 2000 m thick and (blow me down) they are still finding new volcanoes down there.
    http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/25611.aspx

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  94. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    the Climate “Science” Coalition.
    Are the ones at fault
    They refused to acknowledge the simple facts of the case. They lied repeatedly about the availability of the data and the need for adjustments.
    They are a group funded by the heartland institute specifically to cast doubt on science .
    They still refuse to acknowledge the simple facts behind the adjustments The reasons for the adjustments can clearly be seen from the hot topic post and the links to them on the NIWA website.
    http://sciblogs.co.nz/hot-topic/tag/listener/
    http://www.desmogblog.com/heartland-institute
    http://deepclimate.org/tag/international-climate-science-coalition/

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  95. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    Is there an outstanding amount of $5B-$6B? It that figure is true, then why can’t people mention it – other than it is of course unflattering to the government of the day.

    I really hate this shoot the messenger stuff – and now blaming the timing? We don’t want this talked about before the election!! The timing is perfect, because if that is a fact, and that much is owning, and nothing or very little is being done about it – then NZers have a right to know about it.

    Clearly there is a problem with reality – I have to ask why National supporters find it so challenging, and if it is not the reality, then what statistics etc do they have, other than denigration and innuendo to counteract it?

    There seems to be many desiring an environment where no one is allowed to mention anything, unless it flatters the government. Those that dare to are attacked with the ferocity of a mother protecting its young.

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  96. Viking2 (11,367 comments) says:

    So the slimy Nats. just can’t behave in any decent way.

    Despite the evidence.
    Lower drink-drive limit likely to pass

    One of the National-led Govt’s final acts in Parliament this term will be to lower the legal drink-driving limit, which…

    Last minute middle of the night shit while everyone is watching the Com Games.

    What’s next?

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  97. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (3,406 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 9:58 am

    There is absolutely nothing stopping National from making a documentary showing that there isn’t $5B tax overdue – except we know that there is.

    There is absolutely nothing stopping National from making a documentary showing that there is not a huge disparity between the standard of living for New Zealand children – except they can’t because we know there is.

    National is more than able to counteract what is being portrayed in those documentaries, except, we all know, or at least those of us that aren’t fixated on the semantics, that there is a huge problem with disparity in New Zealand that is effecting the standard of life and life chances for a large number of children. In doing so it affects the future of all New Zealanders.

    It is appears to me, that National supporters (unlike National MP’s – thank goodness, and I acknowledge some of the great stuff Paula Bennett has done on this) would like the whole matter to be never mentioned.

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  98. Other_Andy (2,570 comments) says:

    Of course all this cold weather, snow in Melbourne, Northern Portugal’s coldest July temps in decades, more than 2070 cold records in lJune in the U.S.and record breaking sea ice around Antarctica is all caused by global warming.
    Wo is telling the truth?

    Is it getting cooler or is it getting warmer?
    Some stories are clearly out of sync…..

    Take this one for example from last year.

    Cool weather to hit honey harvest
    Federated Farmers expects there will be at least a 40 per cent drop in honey production due to windy and cool weather this season.
    The unseasonal weather meant the bees were less eager to leave the hives to forage, and he predicted there would be at least a 40 percent drop in honey production from last year.
    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/289536/cool-weather-hit-honey-harvest

    Or….

    2013 third hottest year since NZ records began.
    The National Institute for Water and Atmospheric Research has confirmed that last year was one of the hottest in more than a century of records, with mean temperatures 0.8 degrees Celsius above the 1971-2000 annual average
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/9605745/2013-third-hottest-year-since-NZ-records-began

    Or was it the second hottest?
    Who knows anymore with all the adjustments…

    2013 second hottest year on record
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/summerreport/audio/2581753/2013-second-hottest-year-on-record

    Somebody is wrong and I don’t think it is the bees.

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  99. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Judith my point, which you have conveniently ignored, is that the media should not behave like a political party to the advantage of ANY side.

    And your “National could make a documentary” misses that point entirely, and is kind of silly to boot.

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  100. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    The police report into the Crewe Murder case is due to be released.

    One has to wonder whether it will be the truth, the whole truth, or just a sanitized version according to the gospel of Saint Bush guided by the spirit of St Hutton, the Saint of Integrity.

    http://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=190978&fm=newsmain%2Cnrhl

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  101. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ ShawnLH (3,407 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 10:37 am

    I totally agree with you Shawn, however, I feel you’ve left it rather late to complain, considering the media’s attacks of other politicians over the past few months. I didn’t see you complaining about their bias representation when Cunliffe apologised, and they didn’t bother to add the ‘right now’ etc.

    Your complaints are valid but only if you apply them across the board, and not selectively IMO.

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  102. kowtow (8,175 comments) says:

    A bit of election nastiness going on down south.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/311068/mp-slams-sign-taggers

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  103. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “A bit of election nastiness going on down south.”

    This happened at the last election and it was the Green party behind it. Looks like they are up to their usual tactics again.

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  104. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    :lol:
    yes other andy the west coast of new Zealand had a wet year.
    Only yet another cherry pick of yours.
    like the antarctic temperatures from only 2000.6
    Use the whole record and.
    http://woodfortrees.org/plot/hadsst3sh/from:1980/to:2014.6/plot/hadsst3sh/from:2000.6/to:2014.6/trend
    Do the same for antarctic ice and
    http://www-das.uwyo.edu/~geerts/cwx/notes/chap11/sea_ice.html
    We are talking about climate by definition the thirty year average.
    You are linking to cherry picked short term weather trends not the climate trend.

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  105. RightNow (6,968 comments) says:

    Newbie (36 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 9:45 am

    On the Nigel Latta programme last night, it’s said that there’s $5B-6B in unpaid taxes by NZers. If that is correct, what, if anything, is the IRD/government doing about it?

    National while in government have increased the budget for combating tax fraud from $89 million in 2008/2009 to $125 million in 2013/2014. How effective that is I don’t know, and if there are other parties with pragmatic plans to get the extra billions I’d love to see them. So far we just have hot air from Winston:
    “He provided little detail on which areas of tax avoidance the Crown would target other than cash jobs by tradespeople.”
    So there – tradespeople doing cash jobs, and people paying the tradespeople for cash jobs, are his targets. I seriously doubt a crack-down on those people would gather more revenue than it would cost, but he only needs 5% to believe there’s billions of recoverable tax revenue there to get him over the line.

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  106. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    The ‘nice Greens’ of the Jeanette Fitzsimons and Rod Donald era are long gone. Some of their supporters can be as nasty as any online.

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  107. tom hunter (4,687 comments) says:

    On a completely different note, has any government department or the government itself said anything about additional screening being introduced for people flying in from West African? I ask because this Ebola outbreak is starting to look fairly scary:

    Sierra Leone officials appealed for help on Friday to trace the first known resident in the capital with Ebola whose family forcibly removed her from a Freetown hospital after testing positive for the deadly disease.

    Radio stations in Freetown, a city of around 1 million inhabitants, broadcast the appeal on Friday to locate a woman who tested positive for the disease that has killed 660 people across Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone since an outbreak was first identified in February.

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  108. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Tom, my wife has a particular fascination with plagues and has been following this outbreak closely, and yes, it’s very, very scary.

    I would like to know what measures governments are taking, if any, myself.

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  109. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    Joshua Hitchcock respond’s to Jamie Whyte on Maori Quotas: “I got angry and so I wrote a blog post”:

    Unwinding A Straw-Man: ACT and Maori Quotas

    There has been a lot of nonsense from Jamie Whyte (leader of the ACT Party for the uninitiated) over equality for the law and the prevalence of Maori privilege in New Zealand. I’m not going to link to the speeches, but I do want to take him to task over his straw-man argument about Maori quotas at law school a) not benefiting the most disadvantaged Maori and b) serving to deny non-Maori a place.

    Now, I’m no expert on the matter but I am Maori, and I did attend law school so I know a thing of two about how the system works. My grades were high enough to enter stage II law school under general admission – something I am proud about for two reasons. The first is that I was aiming for Honours and this helped me towards that goal, the second is that I did not take up a spot for another Maori to also join me in stage II.

    So why is this argument a straw-man? Quite simply, he has set up the scenario to suit his own facts. I’ll deal with each in turn. First, the idea that the most disadvantaged Maori are not benefiting from the quota is nonsense. The large majority of my peers at law school were upper-middle class paheka kids from suburban Auckland. They came from the Grammars, or private school. Us Maori were almost all provincial kids, many on scholarships because our parents could not afford to send us away, and working several jobs to pay the rent. Most had grown up poor, brown, and considered unlikely to succeed by almost every teacher they met along the way. Most have gone on to working low paid law jobs as advocates for Maori – and the most disadvantaged Maori at that – before the Waitangi Tribunal, Maori Land Court, Family Court, and in the public sector. Law school was not a path to riches, it was a path to service.

    Second, the Maori quotas do not deny non-Maori a place in law school. The quotas are in addition to the general admission places and are recognition of the need for Maori lawyers to serve Maori communities. There have been many years when the full allocation of positions under the quota scheme have not been taken up and at no point were additional places then provided to non-Maori students.

    It is intellectually dishonest to frame the argument in such a way that Mr Whyte has. In distorting the facts to suit his argument he has failed to achieve what he set out to do – engage in an intelligent debate about race and law in Aotearoa New Zealand. What Mr Whyte refers to as “legal privilege” is nothing more than the protection of our rights. Rights guaranteed to us under Te Tiriti o Waitangi. The right to self-determination and self governance; the right to the protection of our taonga, our lands, our resources, and our home lands; and the right to not be subject to state-sponsored discrimination. His version of equality before the law means revoking the protections guaranteed under Te Tiriti o Waitangi. Let’s hope that this is not the ACT party’s bold new vision for our country.

    http://katonuitanga.com/2014/07/30/unwinding-a-straw-man-act-and-maori-quotas/

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  110. tom hunter (4,687 comments) says:

    Yah. I did not agree with an article that had US officials saying that while Ebola was only a plane ride away from the USA, it would not spread far in the US.

    Perhaps they’re arguing that all-round superior infrastructure – clinics, hospitals, police and so forth – would contain an outbreak more effectively than an African country, and they’re probably right.

    But we’re talking about an aspect of evolution here. Ebola used to be limited to killing entire villages and then vanishing – because it killed too quickly, as opposed to something like Bubonic Plague, and also because it’s paradoxically fragile. But in the age of mass air travel I wonder if the environment has finally changed enough to allow the bug to work its horror? Those African countries certainly have faster, better transport than they did thirty years ago.

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  111. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    The incubation period of previous Ebola outbreaks was fast, with the result that it burned out quickly, thus not spreading too far. This new strain has a much longer incubation period, meaning it could last longer and spread a lot further.

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  112. kowtow (8,175 comments) says:

    From Otago Law School 2nd year entry criteria.

    “Candidates for alternative entry
    shall be considered by virtue of their Māori descent;
    must have achieved a minimum academic standard to be determined by the Law Admissions Committee from year to year;
    may be required to supply supporting documentation and to attend for interview.”

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  113. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    “Candidates for alternative entry”

    As Joshua says, ‘alternative entry’ meaning it doesn’t take any places from those seeking normal entry.

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  114. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    Ebola is extremely scary Tom.
    This is the biggest outbreak so far and as you say has spread across national boarders rather than being localized to small villages.
    It is only a matter of time before humanity has a pandemic similar in size to The 1918 flu pandemic (January 1918 – December 1920) One hopes it is not something as deadly and revolting in effects as Ebola
    With the ease of transport due to air travel when we do have such a pandemic The chance of it spreading globally well before humanity reacts could have disastrous consequences for the human population of this planet.

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  115. SGA (983 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 11:05 am

    Tom, my wife has a particular fascination with plagues and has been following this outbreak closely, and yes, it’s very, very scary.

    She must love Exodus 7 to 11! :-)

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  116. calendar girl (1,214 comments) says:

    “As Joshua says, ‘alternative entry’ meaning it doesn’t take any places from those seeking normal entry.”

    That implies that, if there was no ‘alternative entry’, there would be fewer places in total. I rather doubt that.

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  117. stephieboy (2,675 comments) says:

    Judith (7,620 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 10:39 am

    We will just have to see re the release of the Police investigation but even if they can’t reach any definitive conclusions you’ll treat it as snow job regardless.?

    All I know is the gun used to murder the Crewe’s belonged, correct me if I’m wrong , to AAT. ?

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  118. backster (2,141 comments) says:

    L.R.C………..The most recent photo of John Key I have seen was on last weeks Rugby News. He looked as young and dynamic as Richie MCaw and his other mates in the group photo.

    P.G….Perhaps the lawyers concerned was F.E Smith, any number of suspect lawyers will be under suspicion if he gets continued name suppression.

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  119. xy (181 comments) says:

    Kiwiblog: where NIWA is compared to pedophiles, and this is the result: Vote: Thumb up 11 Thumb down 0

    Are you proud, DPF?

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  120. Grendel (993 comments) says:

    bloody hell, who was playing the straw man there?

    apparently if it was not for quotas and special privelege, no maori person could ever get to law school (oh no, less lawyers), and all maori are poor from the suburbs.

    apparently they were also accorded ‘rights’ under the treaty for someplace called Aotearoa NZ (which may or may not be in New Zealand), for self determinism. i did not know that SELF determinism included special breaks based on race.

    and the author is yet another person who seems to think that equality before the law equals state based discrimination.

    the only state sponsored discrimination in effect in this country is for maori, not against. no other group has any special privilege in law based purely on race.

    why cannot these people just say We hate ACT and liberty, without having to dress it up like some sort of unbiased appraisal. they were never going to vote ACT (as they want their turn at the trough), so why pretend otherwise?

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  121. wreck1080 (3,865 comments) says:

    ACC are a fucking JOKE!!!

    They bought in this no claims discount some time back.

    I’ve been working for 11 years, and not a single work related ACC claim.

    You’d think I’d be rather safe and qualify for a reasonable no claims discount.

    So, yes, they gave me a whopping $2.70 discount off my $1000 plus annual bill.

    what a bunch of tossers. The cost of introducing this no claims discount program must have been huge, and offering a discount that is less than 0.02% is hardly going to motivate anyone.

    Bozos! Or am I missing something here?

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  122. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    tom/Shawn
    Doesn’t seem to be too much concern about Ebola here yet. The MoH has this to say:
    ‘If you feel unwell following travel to Guinea, Liberia, or Sierra Leone or in the first three weeks after your return, you are advised to seek immediate medical advice and tell the doctor about your travel’

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  123. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘The most recent photo of John Key I have seen was on last weeks Rugby News. He looked as young and dynamic as Richie MCaw and his other mates in the group photo’
    Extreme case of adulation you have there…

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  124. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy (2,181 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 11:39 am

    You are wrong. There is no conclusive evidence of what gun killed the Harvey and Jeanette Crewe. Initial investigations targetted A. A. Thomas, however without including that planted by two senior police officials the evidence was not durable enough to withstand scrutiny.

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  125. kowtow (8,175 comments) says:

    ‘Alternative entry’ in this context means the candidate did not have the required academic ability to get into 2nd year.

    They ,unlike non maori candidates in the same situation, get to play the race card and can apply to go into 2nd year based on race, not ability,when a honkey can’t.

    That is racial discrimination, flies in the face of “equality”,and allows candidates of doubtful merit to gain a place they aren’t entitled to.

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  126. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    xy (152 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 11:42 am
    They will do any thing to deny the reality of climate change.
    I have come to expect that a factual post will get up to thirty or so down ticks.
    To admit it exists will cause cognitive dissonance.
    The result is the obviously Marxist green party continues to make inroads in our electoral landscape a self defeating result of the denial for the right wing.

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  127. Other_Andy (2,570 comments) says:

    “The MoH has this to say….”

    Great.
    Our civil servants are on the case.
    I feel a lot safer now.
    /sarc off

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  128. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    ‘The most recent photo of John Key I have seen was on last weeks Rugby News. He looked as young and dynamic as Richie MCaw and his other mates in the group photo’

    Really? we have all blacks with sagging jaw lines and multiple wrinkles like this? I’m sorry but Mr “I don’t see a place for Winston Peter’s Lead NZ First in a Government that I lead” Key, looks his age, not older, but not younger either.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/i9v7q9qkd44z2y4/john-key-judith-collins-GETTY1200.jpg

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  129. flipper (3,947 comments) says:

    stephieboy (2,181 comments) says:

    July 30th, 2014 at 11:39 am

    *****

    No. That was never established.

    And that is just the start of the Police (circa70-71-72) malfeasance, or worse… but do not let that get in your way.

    Stephie, a word of good, free, and frank advice: Go read the Royal Commission report. Then come back!

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  130. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    Flippy a word of free and frank advice.
    Posting such crap as your dissertation on glacial research makes you look like a raving loony
    but you already know this and are quite happy for people to see the truth.
    :lol:

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  131. stephieboy (2,675 comments) says:

    flipper, I know exactly where you coming from and yes thank you for the correction.
    My reading is limited to Pat Booth’s comments and writings as well as David Yallop’s seminal book on the case ” Beyond a Reasonable Doubt ”
    By observations and conclusions about the murders is based on their one’s, not yours , or anyone else’s for that matter .!

    BTW , It is interesting that Pat Booth commentating on the stymied David Bain Compensation claim said it lacked an essential ingredient present in the Crewe case, namely evidence of planted evidence .!

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  132. flipper (3,947 comments) says:

    The discussion on ACT and Maori legal and other privilege is interesting.

    That Turia claims that Whyte is being racist by stating facts is indicative of the problem.

    There is a fundamental Human Rights/Freedom issue here, and it will not go away. That realisation will grow and grow, and it will result in ACT getting an increased vote share. Most likely source? Non voters, NZ First, Conservative, and a few National.

    We have little to thank Cooke, Graham and now Finlayson for. Their legacies will be somewhat different from the rose tinted spectacle view as seen by the bullshitting progressive elite.

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  133. cricko (289 comments) says:

    C’mon, lets be fair here.

    How would a princess like Davina ever have been able to get a law degree if there were no special rules for Maoris ?

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11251313

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  134. stephieboy (2,675 comments) says:

    I see Queen of the Tea Party HRH Sarah Palin has set up her paid subscription channel,

    http://time.com/3046196/sarah-palin-channel-subscription/

    That will wow her villein subjects like Harriet , Fletch, Manolo , kowtow etc happy to fork out the $9.95 US per month with her Comedy , Infotainment and newspeak.

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  135. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    Redtard will be rushing to the piggy bank as we speak.
    Might even save him the cost of patching his doll so often if he has a readily accessed and ever changing moving picture of the brainless Alaskan milf for his daily pleasure.

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  136. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Fuckwit, a reporter from NBC said there were no missile trails, and another report from NBC said that their reporter witnessed the drone strike.”

    How do we know UglyNazi? You have not given us any evidence of that. Your first link was too a conspiracy web site that did not source it’s claim, and the second link is, tellingly, not there anymore.

    Lying again, Shawn? Both links are still up. Reposting my 8:00 & 8:22

    http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/07/nbcnews-buries-its-own-journalists-eyes-modifies-gaza-story.html

    An Israeli strike, witnessed by an NBC journalist as being fired by a drone, turns into anonymous “missiles or rockets” in the second variant of the piece. This after the IDF came up with some of its typical “they did it” stories.

    The NBC journalist who witnessed the drone turns into anonymous “early reports from the ground”.

    There is no correction remark attached to the story.

    http://paulmasonnews.tumblr.com/post/93149833609/shifa-and-beach-camp-attacks-my-evidence

    So a review of evidence: I heard two loud bangs – which I assumed one was the firing the other the impact. If the two bangs were two impacts of rockets gone wrong, they happened so close to each other that it must have been a volley of two rockets. Yet I saw no trails in the sky. If they were rockets they will have been shot from somewhere in Gaza towards somewhere in Israel. Both impacts were close to the Western coast of Gaza and landed about 1km away from each other, and 2-3 seconds apart. So that is a double misfire, by a volley aimed in the same direction, that ends up with a 1km spread impact but in the wrong direction. Ie both go wrong in the same way.

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  137. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Another ban from the chubby Luddite: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11301415

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  138. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    The second link was gone earlier. Bit sus.

    Neither of those links provides any credible, sourced facts. The first one is opinion with no evidence, the second is just what one guy claims, with no corroboration, and in this case it’s a left wing journalist.

    Got anything credible UglyNazi?

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  139. MH (698 comments) says:

    I just want to apologise for not having gone to jail and experienced what it is like to be based on race for getting there, as of a fundamental right accredited to me under the Treaty or sumpthing like that.

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  140. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    .. in this case it’s a left wing journalist.

    Oh my goodness, a leftie, stop the presses!

    Speaking of credibility, Shawn, do you still think that a secular civil state where they publicly sing about children dying from military action is the rebirth of a kingdom which was guided by and acknowledged the role of deity?

    “These six things YHWH hates, yes, seven are an abomination to Him: a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift in running to evil, a false witness who speaks lies, and one who sows discord among brethren” (Proverbs 6:16-19).

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  141. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Oh my goodness, a leftie, stop the presses!”

    British left wing journalists are well known for their bias against Israel, so it’s a partisan source with no corroboration. Given what we now know about Robert Fisk’s dishonesty, there is every reason to be suspicious.

    “Shawn, do you still think that a secular civil state where they sing songs about children dying from military action is the rebirth of a kingdom which was guided by and acknowledged the role of deity?”

    Israel is only partly a secular State, it is also partly religious, but secular/non-secular are categories that do not apply to Judaism, because Judaism is not just a religion, it is a culture.

    “Modern” Israel is the fulfillment of the living God’s promise to regather His first chosen within their God given land.

    Your “deity” is a false idol you have made up to suit your cookie cutter pseudo-theology.

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  142. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Israel is only partly a secular State, it is also partly religious

    Some of the citizens of the Zionist state are religious, but the state itself is secular (public law is secular).

    The Zionist Organization was founded by Theodor Herzl at the First Zionist Congress in Basle in 1897; it was renamed the World Zionist Organization in 1960. Its goals were set forth in the Basle Program: “Zionism seeks to establish a home for the Jewish people in Palestine, secured under public law.”
    https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Zionism/wzo.html

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  143. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Your “deity” is a false idol you have made up to suit your cookie cutter pseudo-theology.

    Why do you talk like you know what the nature of my deity is, liar?

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  144. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Israel is defined in it’s law as a Jewish state, thus it is not secular as that term is understood in the West because Jewishness is both ethnicity and religious tradition.

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  145. Ryan Sproull (7,093 comments) says:

    Why argue? Both of your arguments amount to “Allah says”. What good can come of it?

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  146. stephieboy (2,675 comments) says:

    Eyewitness #1: There were two explosions in the air. And this is how it broke apart. And [the fragments] blew apart like this, to the sides. And when …
    Eyewitness #2: … And there was another aircraft, a military one, beside it. Everybody saw it.
    Eyewitness #1: Yes, yes. It was flying under it, because it could be seen. It was proceeding underneath, below the civilian one.
    Eyewitness #3: There were sounds of an explosion. But they were in the sky. They came from the sky. Then this plane made a sharp turn-around like this. It changed its trajectory and headed in that direction [indicating the direction with her hands].

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/deleted-bbc-report-ukrainian-fighter-jet-shot-down-mhi7-donetsk-eyewitnesses/5393631

    Questions.?

    M17 would be flying at 33,000 ft in the sky. How could the eye witness be certain of that detail at that height ( 10 ks ) let alone the presence of a much smaller military jet and its identification .??

    “Sound travels at 343 meters per second . At over 10k the time difference between the explosion and hearing it would be around 28 seconds . The so called eyewitness makes it sound like they heard the explosions and then the plane fell to bits .Impossible unless the explosions they heard where from the rocket fired from the ground. ?”

    The meteorological evidence that a BUK missile had been fired in the direction of M17. The rebels had done this a week prior to a Ukrainian AN 26.?

    The Ukrainians could not of fired a missile . To far from target. Explains desperate attempt to implicate a Ukraine plane so far alleged to be a SU 25. Not suited to task compared to a SU 27 or Mig 29.

    .
    Strong circumstantial evidence that the Rebels most likely mistakenly shot down M17.!

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  147. Andrei (2,545 comments) says:

    Stephieboy;

    The Pentagon knows who shot down the plane and how

    The Kremlin knows who shot down the plane and how

    You can speculate all you want, the powers that be will try and keep the answer secret as long as they can, they may go to war rather than let it come out

    The Prime Minister and Cabinet of the Ukrainian Government have resigned but are for now still in place sort of but have no control over anything

    The money to run the country has run out.

    According to CNN the Ukrainians fire three heavy duty ballistic missiles into the area of fighting in the past few hours, nobody else is telling this tale – why?

    Panic is in the air

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  148. David Garrett (6,971 comments) says:

    So, as expected, the Police’s long investigation of the Crewe murders and AA Thomas convictions is largely a whitewash…they apparently go so far as saying there is a “distinct possibility” the crucial cartridge case was planted, and that police “might” have done it. If it was planted – as the Royal Commission makes clear it was – who the hell else could have done it? Demler I suppose, trying to provide evidence against the local slow boy, which apparently Thomas was…

    From the account I have heard on RNZ news (apparently the press conference is still going on) they are doing all they can to suggest – without coming right out and saying so – that Thomas was in fact guilty…this of course has been the solid police belief ever since they arrested him, and neither the Royal Commission nor anything else is ever going to change that. They have also helpfully eliminated all the other likely suspects which – conveniently – just leaves Thomas.

    They could have saved the taxpayer $400,000.

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  149. tom hunter (4,687 comments) says:

    I was tempted to put the following on the JAMIE WHYTE IS A RACIST thread but accepted that it would be more appropriate here.

    Fonterra has dropped the forecast payout per kilogram from the previous 7.00 to just $6.00. And of course last year it was $8:40

    Usually the incremental rises and drops are smaller than this so it’s an indication that bad things are looming overseas for Fonterra – and perhaps for others?

    No problems though. The hits won’t come until months, perhaps a year after the September 20 election.

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  150. cricko (289 comments) says:

    After reading the report produced today by NZ Police Criminal Profiling Unit regarding the Crewe murders.

    I would ask the profilers.

    1.”Why did you fail to consider a murder suicide ?

    2.”Why do you assume that the buglary, arsons and murder’s’ were all committed by the same person ?

    3. And. Surely your obsevation (point 80.6) that the decription of the person seen on the farm seemed to be
    a description of Mrs Crewe supports a murder/suicide .

    (Jeanette shot Harvey, Demler and Jeanette disposed of his body. Jeanette committed suicide days later.
    Demler disposed of her body.)

    Plenty of known facts fit that scenario.

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  151. stephieboy (2,675 comments) says:

    Andrei,

    Focus on the questions I raised in respect of the eyewitness accounts and their apparent discrepancies .

    Not ongoing Ukrainian politics and economic problems and according to whom.??

    BTW the Russian parliament has had its fair share of fisticuffs and brawls as a matter of interest of that is your inference .

    PS Do you not agree that the Rebels downing the Ukraine AN 26 with a missile ,a week prior ,amounts to strong circumstantial evidence.?

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  152. Kimbo (883 comments) says:

    @ cricko

    …murder suicide…Plenty of known facts fit that scenario.

    But not all of them, as per the report: –

    1. Thomas’ was the rifle most likely used.

    2. The use of the axle from Thomas’ farm.

    It is pretty clear who most likely planted the cartridge cases. In light of the above two facts (as the police still view them) we can probably speculate on why they did plant them.

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  153. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Why argue? Both of your arguments amount to “Allah says”. What good can come of it?”

    “Allah” plays no role in my faith. As to what good can come, the issue is the people who are reading this blog but who don’t comment.

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  154. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘Allah’ and your ‘God’ are the same non-existent deity.

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  155. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Stephie,

    Andrei only considers something evidence if it has been approved by the Kremlin.

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  156. Andrei (2,545 comments) says:

    Stephieboy everyone knows that when witnesses to an event are questioned their are inconsistencies between what they report, in this case though the salient feature are the fighter planes upon which they all agree

    Also Russia has released the civilian radar record from Rostov air control which was about to take over control of this flight and it clearly shows an aircraft coming up to meet the doomed plane.

    This is an area which has about every intelligence monitoring device known to mankind watching it, Russian and American and probably others besides and I’m sure that a great deal is known by all that will not be revealed to us plebs

    But I do not think that it was the “Rebels” who did it, I may be wrong but it seems unlikely given the complexity of the BUK system which is the alleged culprit, and which requires four vehicles with highly trained crews to operate.

    There are multiple forces in play in Ukraine with their own agendas and the “Government” does not actually really control the military, that’s all I’ll say for now – hopefully the truth will out and the culprits brought to justice

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  157. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘it seems unlikely given the complexity of the BUK system which is the alleged culprit, and which requires four vehicles with highly trained crews to operate.’
    Makes it more likely that the system was operated by Russian personnel.

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  158. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    The hopeless and desperate Silent T offers more bribes: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10328036/Labour-pledges-2-rise-in-minimum-wage-to-16-25

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  159. All_on_Red (1,558 comments) says:

    Not necessarily Mikey.
    The Ukrainian army had Buks and many of the rebels are ex Ukrainian Army but of course the Buk is made by Russia and no doubt the Ukrainian army had training from Russia, so rebels could have known how to use them already.
    There is also the fact that a Buk was stolen along with seven tanks from a Ukrainian air defence base. However it does seem clear the rebels shot the plane down.
    Now whether Putin ordered that or knew they were going to do it is another thing altogether. If not I doubt he is happy as it is a massive propaganda fail and has damaged his ” cause”. Still, if that’s the case, Putin should produce them to be prosecuted for war crimes.
    Will he? Doubt it- they’ll end up in a shallow grave.

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  160. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Makes it more likely that the system was operated by Russian personnel.”

    I suspect that is what the Kremlin is desperate to hide.

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  161. All_on_Red (1,558 comments) says:

    Andrei
    It does seem odd that if the rebels didn’t shoot the plane down then they should be happy to allow full access to the site. They are not behaving like innocent people. Personally I think they have made a massive mistake and are trying to cover their arse.

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  162. Jack5 (5,007 comments) says:

    The Internet, email, phone con’s continue.

    A pop-up advertisement on eBay Australia saying you have won a prize. You’ve dodged such con bullets a dozen times before, but today in NZ it’s cool and the prize, a holiday in Florida, tempts you.

    If curiosity leads you to call the NZ number that’s offered, and you get very interesting spiel from America about a $US3000 promotional package to Orlando with a cruise, but the sting is they want you to secure the deal now with payment of the extra $US800 or $US900 or so right now and can’t wait till tomorrow.

    It’s a fairly obvious sting, but the folk on the phone are very plausible (“you’ve won the top prize in this promotion”), and they purport to pass you up an executive chain to get a prize confirmation number.

    Then they ask for the deposit “to secure the $3000 value prize”…

    I guess this plague is the downside of the fall in prices of international phone calls.

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  163. All_on_Red (1,558 comments) says:

    Shawn
    Cui Bono?
    Certainly not Putin. This event makes his propaganda even more difficult to swallow. He’s smarter than that. I think the rebels made a mistake. Any properly trained crew from Russia should gave recognized the jet for what it was and not fired.
    I think Putin is a tyrant but am not sure he’s responsible. That said I also think the EUs expansionist plans have to bear a lot of responsibility for this crisis too.

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  164. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    AoR,

    I don’t think Putin ordered it, so I don’t think he is responsible in that sense. But it is possible it was Russian military. The Russian army itself is poorly trained and lacks discipline and professionalism. I think it’s 50-50 either way, but the Kremlin is clearly hiding something.

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  165. All_on_Red (1,558 comments) says:

    So is the Ukrainian army. I doubt we will ever know

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  166. Andrei (2,545 comments) says:

    Kremlin is clearly hiding something

    Then why is it that they have released some of their data while the USA steadfastly refuses to do so but just sends John Kerry out to roar bellicosely.

    Anyway the black boxes wont lie and eventually the truth will out – it may take years though and a lot more dead innocents before this happens.

    Satan is abroad and his servants are doing their thing

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  167. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    ‘Satan is abroad and his servants are doing their thing’
    While I don’t admire Putin, I certainly wouldn’t describe him as ‘Satan’.

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  168. stephieboy (2,675 comments) says:

    Andrei,

    “Some” of their data but not all.?

    Why precisely.?

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  169. Andrei (2,545 comments) says:

    “Some” of their data but not all.?

    Why precisely.?

    Because they want the USA to put theirs out in the public domain, and the USA has thus far prevaricated, which might suggest that it does not support the narrative they are peddling.

    Its a poker game being played, Russia has shown some of its cards and implied strongly it has more to play. The USA has responded by shouting and rubbish pulled from social media, all of which was soon discredited.

    I’ll say it again both sides know who did it, and why and how –

    I believe the answer lies in the struggle between competing Ukrainian factions, the Government in Kiev is pretty much a fiction, it can sign away the countries sovereignty but not really govern it as we understand it.

    Its a mess and a human tragedy

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  170. Ryan Sproull (7,093 comments) says:

    “Allah” plays no role in my faith.

    That’s the Arabic. “God” in English. “Dieu” in French, etc.

    As to what good can come, the issue is the people who are reading this blog but who don’t comment.

    Fair enough.

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  171. Other_Andy (2,570 comments) says:

    The United Nations Relief & Works Agency For Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) announced Tuesday that another rocket stockpile has been found at one of its schools in Gaza. This instance marks the THIRD TIME since the beginning of Operation Protective Edge that a weapons arsenal has been found at an UNRWA school in Gaza.

    UNRWA has yet to place blame on any individuals or organizations for placing the weapons stockpile within a children’s school. The UN body refused to do so on the past two previous occasions as well.
    The UN body, after both previous findings, has handed the rockets it had found back into the possession of “the local police,” otherwise known as the terrorist group Hamas.
    This week, UNRWA supplies and building materials had been found in Hamas’s tunnel infrastructure, which has been used to smuggle weapons and carry out attacks on the State of Israel.

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  172. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    More delights from the followers of the religion of peace: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/world/africa/ransoming-citizens-europe-becomes-al-qaedas-patron.html?_r=0

    Europe is paying the price for opening its doors to these barbarians and savages.

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  173. tom hunter (4,687 comments) says:

    I mentioned the Fonterra payout drop earlier and see that it has gained zero upticks/downticks, which did make me chuckle …. Perhaps this will make it clearer:

    A drop in the milk price from $8.40 last season to $6.00 this season will amount to a reduction in the collective income of New Zealand dairy farmers of around $4.3bn, or 1.9% of GDP.

    GDP reduction of 1.9% over the coming year. Anybody know of some other national income that can make up the difference?

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  174. thedavincimode (6,606 comments) says:

    Yes. Gween technology. It will make us all rich.

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  175. tom hunter (4,687 comments) says:

    Gween technology? It’s not from Iswael is it? My tummy might hurt.

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  176. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Telling the Messiah to STFU: http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/07/29/israeli-official-to-obama-leave-us-alone/
    While the incompetent talks crap: http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/07/29/obama-muslim-americans-have-helped-build-the-very-fabric-of-our-nation/

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  177. thedavincimode (6,606 comments) says:

    Actually, it’s from much closer to home than you might think. In fact , it’s been dwagged out of the ginga whinga’s arse.

    We are about to become the world leader in gween technology and whatever it turns out to be that we find is gween, the economies of scale that we enjoy in a our large scale manufactuwing capacity will make Chinese and Indian production capacity look like doodley squat.

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  178. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    I was aware of your post and just thanked fuck you didn’t see mine a couple of weeks back Tom.
    Its not good news for our agricultural based economy
    It is also very bad news for those who have brought farms on tick during the present boom in prices Hate to think what it will do to some highly leveraged farming investors.
    I would expect to see a significant impact on the present dairy land price and also on gdp as the contraction in the rural spend spreads though the economy

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  179. thedavincimode (6,606 comments) says:

    Tom H

    I should have added that cunners’ promise to add two bucks to the minimum wage, plus of course, binning the 90 day trial period, will also assist by encouraging employers to recruit unskilled workers to train them up and unskilled workers to up skill.

    All in all, looking good.

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  180. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    Another twist in the Dotcom saga – a judge has just ordered him to reveal all his assets.

    Kim Dotcom has been ordered to disclose all his assets to the Hollywood studios taking action against him.

    20th Century Fox, and other US movie and music companies are suing Dotcom for copyright infringement.

    They say recent comments by Dotcom suggest he has access to assets in New Zealand that are outside the scope of criminal restraining orders and is disposing of them.

    They have applied for freezing orders in respect of his assets, but in the meantime have sought an order over asset disclosure.

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbnat/1087548949-dotcom-ordered-to-disclose-assets

    Result:

    [75] The application for an ancillary order requiring Mt Dotcom to make full disclosure of his assets is granted. By 20 August 2014 Mt Dotcom is to file and serve an affidavit setting out the entire nature, extent and value of his assets wherever they are located and identifying the nature of his interest in them.

    If I was an Internet Party employee or candidate I’d be a bit anxious by now.

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  181. lolitasbrother (626 comments) says:

    About free trade Thailand Bangkok.

    Presently we have over $2 billion trade with Thailand, mostly dairy.
    New Zealand is seen as quality.
    Last night on Thai TV adverts for NZ Ice cream, and NZ honey.
    In the markets Tesco and so on, NZ Apples remarkably fresh, [ 15 baht = 60 cents ]

    Thailand is now a benevolent military dictatorship and things are moving fast.
    The corrupt customs /system is on the list to go and the Thai baht recovering.
    A lot of this was helped by PM Key visit here last year.

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  182. tom hunter (4,687 comments) says:

    All in all, looking good.

    I can’t see thanks to the shades that people insisted I wear ’cause the future’s so bright.

    I’m feeling the love from the Greens too. The only thing needed to make a Labour-Green-Mana/Dotcom win on September 20 perfect would be them demanding that Environment Waikato buy drones for 24/7 observation of farms. Cheaper and more comprehensive than the helicopters they use now.

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  183. cricko (289 comments) says:

    David Garrett @ 1.51

    I agree that, as expected, this report is disapointing.
    I read it and made a comment on one aspect @ 1.56

    NZ Police have dropped the ball here and missed a chance to clean a slate.
    (I hear one of the “profilers” is a 25 year old officer with a psycology degree and the other is a Dutchman.)
    Seems the culture has not changed all that much since the 60s

    I still think that they are one of the finest in the world but this report indicates that there is room
    for improvement.

    While there have been some, excellent leaders have been scarce in the last 40 years.
    Could have been worse though.

    Political correctness has had a lot to answer for regarding attitude.
    e.g. Police Force to Police Department etc. and, “That’s a civil matter.”

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  184. Fletch (6,251 comments) says:

    An Italian reporter (once he is away from Gaza and able to report the truth) confirms that the rocket attack that killed nine yesterday was a result of Hamas misfire, and NOT fired by Israel.

    On Monday, reports rocketed around the globe of a humanitarian disaster at the Al-Shati refugee camp in Gaza. Eyewitness reports were shared on social media and in news articles and reports of the horrific civilian casualties. Many a finger was pointed at Israel. NBC reported it as a “strike” carried out by an “Israeli drone,” stating that it struck in an area full of children.

    Israel claimed in response that the incident was the result of a Hamas rocket misfire, rather than an Israeli strike, a claim met with skepticism by many. This morning, an Italian reporter who was in Gaza until today has bolstered Israel’s claim, apparently confirming on Twitter that the explosion was indeed the result of a Hamas rocket.

    Out of #Gaza far from #Hamas retaliation: misfired rocket killed children yday in Shati. Witness: militants rushed and cleared debris

    — gabrielebarbati (@gabrielebarbati)

    http://www.truthrevolt.org/israel-revolt/italian-reporter-confirms-deaths-al-shati-result-hamas-misfire-not-israeli-missile

    Earlier, Israel also confirmed that it wasn’t they who fired the missile, showing a map of the firing (through Iron Dome, they track every missile launch).

    https://twitter.com/IDFSpokesperson/status/493900772988682241/photo/1

    It was Hamas killing their own people on account of a misfire, and who then rushed to clean up the evidence after it happened.

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  185. cricko (289 comments) says:

    Pete George 4.34
    That’s a good thing but can that judgement be appealed to a higher Court ?
    If so it will be and the old boys network will always accomodate Paul Davidson QC.

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  186. jackinabox (781 comments) says:

    “I see that Nigel Latta’s making a play for Gareth Morgan’s “expert on everything” title. Anyone know what he thinks of cats?”

    Cats are murder on native birds but I love my pussy.

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  187. jackinabox (781 comments) says:

    “From the account I have heard on RNZ news (apparently the press conference is still going on) they are doing all they can to suggest – without coming right out and saying so – that Thomas was in fact guilty…this of course has been the solid police belief ever since they arrested him, and neither the Royal Commission nor anything else is ever going to change that. They have also helpfully eliminated all the other likely suspects which – conveniently – just leaves Thomas.”

    The evil cops decided that Len Demler was a too hard nut to crack so they went after Arthur Thomas instead knowing all the time that he was innocent. One of the many reasons I hate them as much as I do.

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  188. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    Following on from 9:18 am comment, the “prominent Wellington lawyer” who denied to Dom Post he was going up on drug charges has today been charged and has kept name suppression.

    Lawyer charged over drugs

    A prominent Wellington lawyer has kept name suppression on drug charges until a further hearing to fully determine whether his name should be made public.

    The lawyer faces four charges of possession of LSD, methamphetamine and ecstasy along with a charge of possession of drug utensils for smoking methamphetamine.

    Police allegedly searched his home, car and office last week.

    Wellington District Court judge Tom Broadmore remanded the man on bail until next month for a full hearing.

    The case had been brought forward after the lawyer yesterday made an urgent application to the HIgh Court to prevent his name being published.

    The lawyer pleaded not guilty to the charges, which will now go to a case-review hearing.

    Judge Broadmore agreed there was an arguable case for name suppression and that a judge from outside Wellington was needed to make the decision.

    The judge bailed the lawyer on conditions that he live at his home, not consume illicit drugs and not leave New Zealand without permission of the police officer in charge of the case.

    When first contacted by The Dominion Post on Monday, he flatly denied that he had been charged personally and said he was due to appear in court regarding clients’ records that had been seized by police.

    Can a client ask a lawyer to disclose if they have any pending charges?

    This particular lawyer may have to avoid some clients:

    Police confirmed that the lawyer had been charged with possession of methamphetamine, LSD and ecstasy, as well as possession of drug utensils. He has yet to make his first court appearance on the charges.

    Police declined to comment further, but it is understood search warrants were executed on July 8 at the man’s house, office and car in relation to Operation Fantail, a year-long investigation that led to several raids last month in central Wellington, Porirua, Masterton and Auckland.

    A Tribesmen gang member, a Mongrel Mob associate, and a senior Highway 61 member were among 15 people arrested. Drugs, cash, cars and motorcycles were seized.

    Or could he represent co-accused?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/10325442/Lawyer-charged-over-drugs

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  189. Gulag1917 (851 comments) says:

    Australia

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  190. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    “A Tribesmen gang member, a Mongrel Mob associate, and a senior Highway 61 member were among 15 people arrested. Drugs, cash, cars and motorcycles were seized.”

    Nice to see the lawyer keeps such good company. Did these gang thugs get name suppression?

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  191. Nookin (3,266 comments) says:

    Pete George refers to “Mt Dotcom “. Is that what one calls a Freudian slip?

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  192. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    I don’t know much about AA Thomas but seeing him during the farcical Bain retrial standing smirking next to (an also smirking) Joe Karam repeating “I’m New Zealand’s most innocent man” “I’m New Zealand’s most innocent man” over and over like a trained Parrot made me think he is exactly the opposite.

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  193. EAD (943 comments) says:

    Interesting take on the Ukraine situation:

    https://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/07/anne-williamson/the-looting-of-eurasia-by-the-west/

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  194. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    “so they went after Arthur Thomas instead knowing all the time that he was innocent. One of the many reasons I hate them as much as I do.”

    Did the filth plant a bullet on you Jack just like they did to Arthur?

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  195. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Interesting take on the Ukraine situation:”

    You mean Rockwell’s normal ‘anyone but America’ bollocks.

    Yawn.

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  196. jackinabox (781 comments) says:

    “Did the filth plant a bullet on you Jack just like they did to Arthur?”

    They’d like to give me the bullet Dad but they’re cowards, and like cowards everywhere they let other low scum do the dirty work for them.

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  197. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    LewRockwell is supposedly a libertarian anarchist web site. It claims to be anti State, but, I figured out a while back that it’s only anti two states, the US and Israel. If your an Arab tyrant who supports terrorism or the Kremlin, then LR will sing your praises.

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  198. EAD (943 comments) says:

    There you go again Shawn, making things up and attacking strawmen which we all know is your usual modus operandi. Yes Lew is a Libertarian and he is also one of the biggest fans of the concept of America (read below).

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/2011/03/gary-north/what-made-america-great/

    In this article from his website, there are five slogans, five principles of the American way of life that Lew loves. Taken together, they identify a unique outlook that gave rise to a unique way of life: a unique social order unlike anywhere else that existed in the World which was ruled by Kings, Queens, Shoguns, Emperors or Militias:

    1 God helps those who help themselves.
    2 Mind your own business.
    3 Live and let live.
    4 Let’s make a deal.
    5 Our kids will have it better.

    What Lew doesn’t like is that in recent times, these principles are being undermined by an overbearing state and that is what he rallies against.

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  199. cricko (289 comments) says:

    dad4justice @6,09

    The NZP (Hutton) didn’t think Thomas was innocent, they were convinced of his guilt, thats why they planted
    evidence with a clear concience to get a result they believed was just and they couldnt get any other way.
    That was wrong. Probably one wrong move in an otherwise good career. A huge wrong no doubt .
    But.
    Love to see an answer from either you or Jack to this question.

    If the New Zealand Police are “filth” what is your better alternative ?

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  200. Lucia Maria (2,277 comments) says:

    EAD,

    Looks like Russian propaganda disinformation to me. Especially since it quotes Ugly’s favourite site, Global Research.ca.

    You need to read this book: Disinformation: Former Spy Chief Reveals Secret Strategies for Undermining Freedom, Attacking Religion, and Promoting Terrorism

    Disinformation has caused worldwide damage to the reputation of the United States, and now it is putting down roots in this country itself. To fight this invisible weapon, we must first recognize it for what it is and decode its hidden mission, since it is usually clothed in innocuous civilian dress – as were the terrorists who killed three thousand Americans on September 11, 2001. That is the purpose of this book.

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  201. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “There you go again Shawn, making things up and attacking strawmen”

    Bullshit. In ANY conflict or disagreement between the US and any country or between Israel and any country LR will come done every time against the US and Israel. Every time. They are no different to the Leftists who claim to love their country but will, every time, support it’s enemies,

    Don’t be so bloody gullible EAD. The principles they claim to believe in and what the actual articles consistently say are not the same.

    And, the USA was founded as a State, a constitutional republic. What the hell does that have to do with anarchism?

    Open your eyes EAD, you’re being played for a fool.

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  202. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    EAD
    You like Gary North, huh?

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  203. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    “If the New Zealand Police are “filth” what is your alternative ?”

    We need police, however unlike other western countries our police force has never been investigated for corruption. Our police force lie in court to protect other police, they plant evidence, etc..etc… hence the term filth. No right minded person would trust a kiwi cop, nobody is that stupid are they?

    To answer your question an honest police force would be a good alternative.

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  204. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ cricko (208 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 6:57 pm

    I don’t think anyone actually believes the police are filth, but there has been a certain culture that has existed in the force, particularly in the CIB, that prevents them from being able to look objectively at mistakes they have made. They are not totally to blame for this. The excessive pressure that they are placed in to solve crimes, allows mistakes to be made.

    The culture of ‘brotherhood’ that exists within the force, prevents people from speaking out against those few that are dishonest. Those that have broken the bond, have been dealt to severely.

    No one expected any more from a report constructed by the police that was released today, than what was released. Until an independent investigation is undertaken, we will never have the truth, or what we can believe is as close to the truth as possible.

    I am with Ross Meurant on this one. This is not the first time this has happened, and the mistakes have not been addressed or fully acknowledged, and therefore are bound to be repeated.

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  205. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    The author of COVER UPS AND COP OUTS – (NZ POLICE) is Tom Lewis who views the filth as dangerous filth. Ask his daughter why she had to flee New Zealand. Filthy low life bastards make me sick. Rotten to the core.

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  206. lurcher1948 (151 comments) says:

    Longknives (4,461 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 5:40 pm
    I don’t know much about AA Thomas but seeing him during the farcical Bain retrial standing smirking next to (an also smirking) Joe Karam repeating “I’m New Zealand’s most innocent man” “I’m New Zealand’s most innocent man” over and over like a trained Parrot made me think he is exactly the opposite.

    Mr Farrar thanks for providing idiots like the poster above a chance to prove some posters are idiots,rant on longknifes if you think Bain and Thomas are guilty, you must also think Key is a honest PM

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  207. EAD (943 comments) says:

    Shawn – there is a great difference between being against the actions of the political elite in government, and the people that reside in said country. At the extreme did you oppose the German Nation or did you oppose the Nazis in Power from 1933-45. Likewise, do you oppose the Korean nation or do you oppose the Government in power in the state called North Korea?

    If you want to understand Lew’s position, you can read more of him here: http://mises.org/daily/author/275/Llewellyn-H-Rockwell-Jr

    Here is a little snippet from an article where writes about some of the insanities of government: http://mises.org/daily/2567/The-War-the-Government-Cannot-Win

    “His point was not merely that government should be limited, but that it is limited by the very structure of reality. It cannot make all people rich by its own initiative. It cannot provide universal housing, literacy, and health. It cannot raise wages across the board. It cannot ban products. Those who seek to accomplish economic ends such as these are choosing the wrong means. That is because there is something more powerful than government: namely economic law”

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  208. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    “rant on longknifes if you think Bain and Thomas are guilty, you must also think Key is a honest PM”

    I actually gave you a thumbs up for that! Cause clearly this is a Parody…right?

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  209. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    I recently made a complaint to the police authority and was impressed with the professionalism and thoroughness of the investigating officer. The complaint resulted in a satisfactory outcome in my view once it was investigated and upheld.

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  210. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    As for Judith ranting on about the Police ‘looking after the Brotherhood’ etc
    Does she realise that the Crewe murders were nearly half a century ago? And that the majority of Detectives reviewing the case probably weren’t even born??
    Why would they be ‘whitewashing’ and ‘covering-up’ (and risking their careers) for a load of old Cops they never knew and most of whom are probably dead?

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  211. cricko (289 comments) says:

    dad4justice

    In a perfect world that would be a creditable answer.
    But in the real world, given that you label our Police as “filth”

    Can you point to a better police “Department” anywhere on earth that is not, in your opinion, filth?

    (Department as opposed to Force thanks to Robertson. (Arguably our worst ever police chief )

    Thanks again to control freak Helen Clark.

    And Judith, even you call it the ‘Force”
    Where have you been the last years ? Its not a force.
    It’s a “Department” these days.
    Get with the programme.

    Ps anyone that is with Ross Meurant, well, nuff said.

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  212. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    Of course you did Gripp. Your the only person in New Zealand that has received a favourable decision from the toothless PCA.

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  213. Reid (16,218 comments) says:

    I wouldn’t worry if I were you about trying to discuss reason and Shawn in the same breath EAD.

    It hasn’t worked yet, don’t expect success.

    Shawn appears to hallucinate along with many others, that America = fweedom and democwacy and therefore, cogito ergo sum, ipso facto and howzat, it’s not possible that it would enter into conflict with any nation at all, if not for those reasons.

    IMO there’s no point engaging one so deluded because he’s just not interested in listening, no matter how polite you are. But hey, go for it. one hopes you make progress. Who knows. Just don’t get your hopes up…

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  214. Rowan (2,068 comments) says:

    LK
    Just like you know no facts re the Bain retrial, stick to your knitting fool!

    D4J
    I think of them (the IPCA) as the ‘police covering arse authority’ they are a joke!

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  215. Nostradamus (3,295 comments) says:

    D4J:

    Can we clear something up?

    You say you have no confidence in the police. You say you have no confidence in the Police Complaints Authority.

    So why, then, do you think the police will assist you in your ongoing, and highly personal, crusade against Big Bruv?

    Curious minds want to know!

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  216. OneTrack (2,975 comments) says:

    shawn – “Is anyone else suspicious about the timing of the Nigel Latta series?”

    Not suspicious at all. Obviously timed for the election.

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  217. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    While there is no doubt that Hutton and Johnston fitted Arthur Thomas up it does not mean that the entire NZ Police is, was, or are corrupt.

    Frankly, those who make such claims are morons. I suspect the idiots who do make these claims have also found themselves on the wrong side of the law and use such occasions as the release of the Crewe report to vent their tiny minds.

    I will never stop being a supporter of our Police, we have what is probably the most honest Police force in the world, we should respect the shitty job they have to do and cut them as much slack as they require. One thing is certain, most of us could not do the job they do.

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  218. Longknives (4,686 comments) says:

    “Just like you know no facts re the Bain retrial, stick to your knitting fool!”

    Happy to oblige Rowan! A fluoro pattern? (I hear they are quick and easy to wash..)

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  219. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    ” there is a great difference between being against the actions of the political elite in government, and the people that reside in said country.”

    Sometimes that is true, and sometimes not. If you’re opposing the government when it is right, such as defending the US people from terrorism, then in fact the opposition to the govt IS opposition to the people, and in siding with the enemies of the US by constantly attacking the US govt on every foreign policy issue, LR is opposing the US people.

    LR is an extremist anarchist site that sides with the enemies of the American people, and as such it is far away from the world view of heartland Americans. It certainly does not represent them, any more than the Guardian newspaper does. Heartland Americans may dislike their government on some issues, but they are fiercely patriotic and pro-military, something LR certainly is not.

    It is telling that your examples are all actual tyrannies that you then compare to the US government, a standard Left wing tactic.

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  220. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    If my experience was typical I would very much doubt that.
    It may be slightly different if you are a loony stalker going to the police with blatantly stupid baseless complaints I wouldn’t know. I had the fore site to turn on the recorder in my cell phone as evidence for the resulting complaint.. I will also do this from now on for any traffic stop or contact with the police as a matter of course. When you do record police contact its best to also record telling the police you are doing so.

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  221. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    Nosatradumus – my children have made the complaint not me Mr Stalker.

    cricko – I don’t view this Department and Ministry as filth

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  222. OneTrack (2,975 comments) says:

    publicwatchdog – “Laila Harre is standing in Helensville for the Internet/Mana Party.”

    Oh no. She and her sugar daddy will take all your votes.

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  223. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (4,464 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 7:27 pm

    Because those young men that were police back then moved through the ranks and taught the younger people coming on. The same ethos kept being repeated. It is in their best interests to keep it that way. When you are police officer you need to know the people with you will watch your back and cover you at all times during your work. You sure as hell don’t want someone with a grudge against you watching you rear.

    I think you need to have a chat with Meurant, he obviously could tell you a thing or two.

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  224. Nookin (3,266 comments) says:

    Onetrack
    Not ‘all’ – just half. Penny will vote for herself. Or can she? Isn’t she a carpetbagger?

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  225. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ big bruv (13,297 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 7:34 pm

    I am not anti police. The vast majority of them are excellent and dedicated people. Many of them have tried very hard to overcome the mistakes of the past – but there are still some (a small number) within the force that allow mistakes to occur, for various reasons.

    And no, many couldn’t do their job. But we have to accept that they do and have made mistakes, and when that happens innocent people get hurt – along with their families and others. That is unacceptable, and if you had been on the receiving end, you’d understand the complaints.

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  226. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    ‘police covering arse authority’

    Nice one Rowan :-)

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  227. EAD (943 comments) says:

    That is true Reid,

    Shawn still sees the world in very black and white terms with one side of goodies versus the other side who are ergo, the baddies.

    EMP. Ebola. Russians. ISIS. China. Polar Vortex. Global Warming. Immigrants. Terrorists. So many MSM promoted & perceived threats to keep Shawn worried.

    However, none compare to the destruction being done by Governments and their Central Banking Systems.

    Not that I believe in the fake divide of “left” vs. “right” but if I am to use his rhetoric, he also seems to thinks I am “left wing”.

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  228. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    Judith

    I fail to see your point. Even if I was not happy with a particular event, or incident, involving the Police I would still not make a moronic statement like “all Police are filth”

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  229. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    Nostradamus

    Do you suspect that you have been told another lie re the supposed Police complaint?

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  230. OneTrack (2,975 comments) says:

    DG – “They could have saved the taxpayer $400,000″

    They SHOULD have saved the taxpayer $400,000. We keep getting told there is more than enough current crime that they could be working on. Maybe not.

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  231. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ big bruv (13,298 comments) says:
    July 30th, 2014 at 7:57 pm

    I can understand that BB, I would never make that statement either. The only thing I can say is that the terminology of ‘filth’ has connections in some cultures, and does not necessarily mean what you or I would normally associate with it. The MM refer to the police as ‘the filth’ as if it is their name.

    I also accept that some people have been very hurt by the police, and have good reason to feel angry about them. It is a matter of finding a balance.

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  232. Nostradamus (3,295 comments) says:

    Big Bruv:

    This is what D4J claimed:

    my children have made the complaint not me

    The claim sounds a bit dodgy to me.

    But, then again, I’m not sure you could expect much more from someone who wrote:

    The author of COVER UPS AND COP OUTS – (NZ POLICE) is Tom Lewis who views the filth as dangerous filth. Ask his daughter why she had to flee New Zealand. Filthy low life bastards make me sick. Rotten to the core.

    I imagine if D4J were burgled, and I hope he isn’t ever burgled, he’d pick up the phone and call his friendly local constable for assistance. So, even in D4J’s world, the police would have their place.

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  233. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “I wouldn’t worry if I were you about trying to discuss reason and Shawn in the same breath EAD.”

    Says the irrational Nazi who switches reason off and swallows any conspiracy theory, no matter how ludicrous, so long as it attacks the evil Jews.

    “fweedom and democwacy”

    An example of Reid’s notion of rational discussion!!! :) :) :)

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  234. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    Does D4j consider that his anti police remarks could massively prejudice any case he tried to take to them if say the person he complained about were to present the police officer investigating a nice print out of his comments?
    If I were a copper and someone showed me such filth I would be inclined to accidentally drop his file into the round bin in the corner marked with the code rubbish.

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  235. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “EMP. Ebola. Russians. ISIS. China. Polar Vortex. Global Warming. Immigrants. Terrorists. So many MSM promoted & perceived threats to keep Shawn worried.”

    So there is no Ebola outbreak EAD? Wow. Got any evidence for that one. :)

    Polar Vortex??? WTF is that?? Sounds like something from one of Reid and Ugly’s web sites.

    ISIS? Yeah, your so right EAD. A large, heavily armed terrorist state is nothing to worry about. :)

    As to immigrants, I AM an immigrant to NZ ya dick!

    What a tool. :)

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  236. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    Once the complaint is resolved I will let my large kiwiblog fan club know the out come. At least I get to find out the identity of the culprit.

    Oh Nostradumus, can you email me and I will give you the reference number. That should satisfy you obsessed unhinged creeps. My email is on my blog. Enough of this crap from you cowardly fools.

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  237. Reid (16,218 comments) says:

    Not that I believe in the fake divide of “left” vs. “right” but if I am to use his rhetoric, he also seems to thinks I am “left wing”.

    Yes. When you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail EAD. Sad, isn’t it.

    Case in point:

    “So there is no Ebola outbreak EAD? Wow. Got any evidence for that one. ”

    I don’t think EAD was saying there wasn’t an outbreak Shawn, he was saying something completely different. Which you missed, because all you have is a hammer.

    You should approach life Shawn as I imagine you do the Bible, it has lots of nuances and requires an open mind and often, all is not as it seems on a superficial reading.

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  238. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    Nostradamus

    I don’t doubt that he would. Some time back I remember D4J saying he was good mates with the Police. Something about D4J being a McKenzie friend or the like (another claim I find very hard to believe)

    Of course the trouble with that comment is that we simply don’t know where the truth stops and the lies begin. If members of D4J’s family have laid a complaint (and lets be honest, we both know they have not as there is nothing to base their claim on) then I can expect a visit from my local constabulary. Given that I will never get that visit it will simply add to the long line of lies told by D4J.

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  239. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    $400,000 is nothing. The very fact that we are still having this conversation after all this time, is reason why the matter of Arthur Thomas’ wrongful conviction needs to be addressed. The matter could have been solved years ago with a simple apology, but arrogance has prevented that from ever happening. The police should have prosecuted. Ford stated today that he believed there was the evidence. So do I.

    Whenever anything goes wrong, whenever the police are questioned rightly or wrongly, the name A.A. Thomas is always raised, as if it is reason to question the authority of the police. They have as many reasons as the Thomas family and Rochelle, to have this matter settled once and for all. Until it is, the matter will continue to haunt them.

    The one thing I can assure you, the Thomas family ain’t going anywhere until that apology is forthcoming. They are not the only ones that need it, NZ does too.

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  240. jackinabox (781 comments) says:

    Judith (7,630 comments) says:

    “I am not anti police. The vast majority of them are excellent and dedicated people. Many of them have tried very hard to overcome the mistakes of the past – but there are still some (a small number) within the force that allow mistakes to occur, for various reasons.”

    You’re wrong Judith, every cop from Sergeant on up is a complete arsehole. Trust me I know what I’m talking about, 30 years of discrimination and harassment against me and my family proves that the NZ Police are no different now than they were when the dirty evil bastards stitched up a known to be innocent Arthur Thomas.

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  241. Nostradamus (3,295 comments) says:

    D4J:

    Oh Nostradumus, can you email me and I will give you the reference number.

    I really don’t see what difference a reference number makes in the scheme of things. Anyway, if the reference number means so much to you, why can’t you just post it here? Is the reference number classified information? Do you need a police certificate to receive the information? (yes, funny joke, ha ha!)

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  242. cricko (289 comments) says:

    Can someone solve an arguement.

    Re MKR
    What is the difference between “Sea trout” and “Salmon” ?
    Obviously these Aussies can see a difference.

    Can U spell it out ?

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  243. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    ” but if I am to use his rhetoric, he also seems to thinks I am “left wing”.”

    EAD, one of the reasons I gave up on libertarianism, especially of the LR kind, is that it’s close to impossible to distinguish their rhetoric on foreign policy from that of the extreme Left. They sound just like the Democratic Underground site or the British Guardian. It’s called the horseshoe effect.

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  244. EAD (943 comments) says:

    Replace “Ebola” with “bird flu” or “mad cow disease” or “Y2K” or “aids” and you’ll get my line of argument – all MSM hyped and perceived catastrophic threats which turned out to be nothing of the sort. All to keep the population worried and demanding more big government solutions to perceived problems – a classic Hegellian dialectic.

    I was also coming from an American perspective on how their news is reported (which whilst still applicable is on a lesser scale in NZ). The fact we’ve been talking about America all the way through the discussion has gone right over your head…..again

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  245. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Reid opines: “Yes. When you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail”

    Or in your case, when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a Jew.

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  246. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    My fan club is out in force tonight. When you going to post those emails you hyperbolic blouse bigot? Haha what sick people you nutbars are.

    Thank God I can feel sorry for such fixated psychos. You make the “filth” seem clean.

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  247. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    Re MKR
    What is the difference between “Sea trout” and “Salmon” ?
    Obviously these Aussies can see a difference.

    A sea trout in Aussie is what we call kahawai
    Arripis trutta
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arripis_trutta

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  248. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Replace “Ebola” with “bird flu” or “mad cow disease” or “Y2K” or “aids” and you’ll get my line of argument – all MSM hyped and perceived catastrophic threats which turned out to be nothing of the sort.”

    Sounds like a hammer to me. Because one thing is hyped, everything must be eh EAD? LOL, FFS take your own advice. !

    The problem EAD is that anyone with an ounce of knowledge about it knows that Ebola IS a serious issue. Sticking your head in the sand just because it’s on the 6pm News is not thinking for yourself, it’s willful stupidity.

    “I was also coming from an American perspective”

    Bollocks.

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  249. Reid (16,218 comments) says:

    Or in your case, when all you have is a hammer everything looks like a Jew.

    Yes, that’s right Shawn. Every single one of my 15,950+ comments is about Jews. Why don’t you look back at the history to confirm? After all, evidence is there, all you have to do is know how to google.

    I know it’s challenging, but even you might able to do that.

    Looking forward to your erudite statistical analysis on my commenting record, re: me and Jews.

    Or is it, yet again, the fact you only have a hammer, so everything looks like a nail syndrome? As in, you can’t reconcile a Christian who alleges the current and past leaders of Israel are all murderous satanic thugs being a Christian since you, equipped only with your hammer, understand Christians to be?

    Hammer time Shawn. Educate yourself. Drop your hammer, and pick up the book.

    I recommend Deuteronomy first. You don’t seem to get that very well at all. Perhaps you should start by admitting to God and yourself you don’t really know what you’re talking about notwithstanding your theology degree and your spouse’s occupation, and asking Him for guidance. That’s apparently, how we Christians are supposed to do it.

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  250. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Yes, that’s right Shawn. Every single one of my 15,950+ comments is about Jews.”

    A hell of a lot of them over the last months have been.

    “Hammer time Shawn. Educate yourself. ”

    I already have. You should try it yourself.

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  251. cricko (289 comments) says:

    Oh shit. there it is by the way, before your very eyes, jackinabox

    jackinabox. @8.16

    He has been persecuted wrongly. So fricken wrongly.
    Persecuted by society, (thats all of us ) 20 years this poor sda fuck has been persecuted by everyone else in society.
    His family have been persecuted.
    Oh! So wrongly persecuted, The poor sad sad.

    How can we help a poor sad fuck such as jackinabox get justice ?
    Fuck. I feel so guilty.

    Hey jackinabox, what would make you happy ?

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  252. Reid (16,218 comments) says:

    A hell of a lot of them over the last months have been.

    Yes that’s because I explained why they’re satanic which took quite a few given the expected resistance from some to new knowledge and then they started murdering children. So I couldn’t help myself. In the last few months. Meanwhile I also made heaps of comments on all sorts of other things as well. But you seem fixated on that one issue, for some reason. (See below for an explanation.)

    I already have. You should try it yourself.

    Wow good comeback. But what can I expect from someone who does his thinking with a hammer?

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  253. cricko (289 comments) says:

    But Griff,
    A kahawai has white flesh. Even if you bleed it it doesn’t look like a salmon.
    Aussies sea trout has flesh that looks just like a salmon.
    Kinda salmon colour.

    must be sumsing else.

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  254. nasska (11,143 comments) says:

    Godologist vs Godomite!

    Who will God declare the victor? :)

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  255. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Who will God declare the victor!”

    Me of course! ;)

    But it’s really an argument between someone who tries, however imperfectly, to seriously think through issues, and someone who runs to the nearest conspiracy web site to be told what to think.

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  256. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    ” But you seem fixated on that one issue, for some reason.”

    Yes. It’s called the Holocaust.

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  257. Redbaiter (8,310 comments) says:

    Nostradamus- its very disappointing to see you joining in with the other cowards and jackals and goading and hounding D4J. I thought you would have more class and more good sense. Surely you must know why compassion is necessary.

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  258. nasska (11,143 comments) says:

    Don’t count your chickens Shawn. Reid will make a comeback & the loser of Round 2 goes straight to Hell. :)

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  259. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    I know who is losing nasska
    we are
    The ineffable is simply a case of un fuck able to any normal mind.
    Still it keeps reid and Shawn out of trouble and other than the frequent godwins its better than anything involving ugly tinfoil boy.

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  260. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Reid will make a comeback & the loser of Round 2 goes straight to Hell.”

    Then out of compassion I will buy Reid some sunscreen lotion. I’m sure he can find some nice metrosexual demon to rub it on for him. :)

    Well, so long as it’s a non-Jewish metrosexual demon. :)

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  261. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    Ocean Trout
    http://www.mesa.edu.au/aquaculture/aquaculture14.asp
    Ocean Trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) are similar to Brown and Rainbow Trout. They have a large jaw with numerous reddish or black spots along the body. In Tasmania, they can grow up to 90cm and 14kg but are generally harvested at about 30-45cm and 1kg. They are predators with a varied diet, and will eat nearly anything they can catch.

    The Ocean Trout is a native to the cold waters of the North Atlantic Ocean and was introduced to Australia in the nineteenth century. Ocean Trout is presently farmed in sea cages in Tasmania (e.g. Macquarie Harbour). Their life cycle and farming is very similar to Atlantic Salmon. Young trout of about 400g are transferred to sea cages and reared to a size of 2.5 -3.5 kg.

    Ocean trout are similar in taste to Atalantic Salmon but it is more subtle and less salty. They are oily fish with a firm rosy pink/orange flesh and mild flavour. They have a high fat content and are rich in omega 3 oils.

    Tasmania produced 14 292 tonnes of Atlantic Salmon and Ocean Trout (head on, gilled and gutted), valued at $111.5 million at the farm gate, in 2001-02.

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  262. Reid (16,218 comments) says:

    Yes. It’s called the Holocaust.

    So that excuses Israel and Israel alone from behaving in (what we call in our naivety but it’s all this flawed world has) a civilised manner?

    You know as well as I do that the only reason Israel gets away with what she does if because she has managed to convince billions of useful idiots in the West they are descendants of the chosen people.

    Think about it.

    Even if nation X had suffered the holocaust (which, der, also happened to many millions of others but we neither hear from them nor consider them in our history or even in our laws, do we), and it did exactly what Israel has done since, the West wouldn’t support it, would we. The West wouldn’t keep excusing it on the grounds of “the holocaust” would we. Name one other nation on Earth, in all of history, that has received the special treatment Israel has and continues to receive, from the West. Name one. Go on.

    There is none, is there.

    And since Israel does behave like a thug, the only reason she’s not called out for that behaviour given every other nation on Earth who behaved like that would be is…? Well?

    What’s your answer, hammer boy?

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  263. nasska (11,143 comments) says:

    ….”Still it keeps reid and Shawn out of trouble and other than the frequent godwins its better than anything involving ugly tinfoil boy.”….

    True Griff. They also bury the comments about ‘he who must not be named who wears fluorocolour jersies’. :)

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  264. stigie (1,060 comments) says:

    Sounds like this tiff between Bruv and D4J has been going on for some time, in fact a long time before i came on here.

    Whats it all about or should i not ask ?

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  265. Griff (7,325 comments) says:

    I think we managed to dodge a .22 bullet with the timely release of the Thomas report distracting the usual suspects long enough for the building head of steam to dissipate.

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  266. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Whats it all about or should i not ask ?”

    NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! :)

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  267. jackinabox (781 comments) says:

    cricko (212 comments) says:

    “Persecuted by society, (thats all of us ) 20 years this poor sda fuck has been persecuted by everyone else in society.”

    30 years ya dopey prick and not “everyone in society” just the fucking cops and a handful of their rewarded half-witted tools.

    “Hey jackinabox, what would make you happy ?”

    You to get arse cancer would be a good start.

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  268. nasska (11,143 comments) says:

    Nostradamus would be the bloke to shed light on that stigie.

    Ask him next time he comments here.

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  269. stigie (1,060 comments) says:

    Maybe he will see my comment Nasska and front up, although i am not generally a nosy prick so it wont matter !~

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  270. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    Very good question stigie – ask bigot blouse why he started this shit fight.

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  271. stigie (1,060 comments) says:

    Not generally a nosy prick and all, but where the fuck is Johnboy ?

    Has he and Judith connected yet…If not why not ?

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  272. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    stigie

    If you find out can you please let me know.

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  273. Maggy Wassilieff (319 comments) says:

    @ Cricko: @ Griff…. sea trout is also brown trout (Salmo trutta) in its sea-running form.

    The Ocean trout raised in cages in Tasmania seems to be what we would call Rainbow trout (Onchorhynchus mykiss)

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  274. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “ask bigot blouse why he started this shit fight.”

    Yes but WHAT started it exactly? I’m curious about that myself.

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  275. stigie (1,060 comments) says:

    I can be moderator if you like BB and Nasska can be my assistant ?

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  276. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    ShawnLH

    Believe it or not I used to agree with a bit of what D4J had to say a few years back. Whilst it was obvious that he had issues re his temper I tended to cut the man a bit of slack. However, to answer your question, I can well remember how this all came about. There was a thread one night about something to do with the family court, or men who did not pay child maintenance. I made a comment along the lines of saying that there was never a reason for men not to pay child maintenance (a comment made with no knowledge of D4J’s situation) and all hell broke loose.

    Ever since that day I have not been able to make a comment (save for the glorious eighteen months when D4J was “away”) without him chasing me all over the blog. While I will admit that I do enjoy winding him up from time to time I will also say that I find his constant abuse somewhat tedious. I actually think the guy has issues that need attending too.

    So there you go, nothing more exciting than that.

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  277. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    stigie

    Hell man, I (along with the assistance of Dime) even offered to run a mayoral campaign for D4J. We had bumper stickers all ready to go, Our slogan was going to be ‘Vote for mad Dad”

    It would have been a winner.

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  278. Nostradamus (3,295 comments) says:

    Big Bruv is quite correct – that is my recollection.

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  279. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Thanks for the explanation BB.

    Yes, if I understand D4J’s experience right then I’m inclined to feel compassion for him over that, but his reaction to your statement is severe over reaction, to say the least.

    And the internet stalking, abuse and threats towards you have become disturbing.

    I agree with you about child maintenance.

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  280. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    More lies from bigot blouse. The real truth will come out when I reveal its identity and real agenda. I have evidence it started before it was a blogger on kiwiblog. Thank you Nigel for the information. Many on here will be shocked.

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  281. stigie (1,060 comments) says:

    Understand what you are saying BB but why does Reddy seem to be backing him up ?

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  282. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “The real truth will come out when I reveal its identity and real agenda.”

    Then do it now. This “all in good time” crap looks like you have nothing at all.

    Man up and just get it all out in the open.

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  283. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    Shawn

    I should also say that over the years it has become apparent that D4J is a pathological liar. It has been over six years, maybe even seven that we have been hearing about this book. I remember talk from a couple of years back where he claimed there was going to be a TV series made about him.

    Frankly the guy lives in a dream world, he sees a conspiracy around every corner. He is clearly deranged, or an extreme narcissist.

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  284. Nostradamus (3,295 comments) says:

    Redbaiter:

    Just seen your 8:47pm comment.

    D4J has been stalking me for a while now, across multiple threads, so I feel entitled to provide some historical perspective (as a long-time Kiwiblog reader). I don’t mean to ridicule him – D4J does that to himself.

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  285. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    “but why does Reddy seem to be backing him up ?”

    Who the fuck knows!

    I suspect they see the narcissism in each other and feel some kind of kindred spirit.

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  286. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “He is clearly deranged, or an extreme narcissist.”

    His rhetorical style, much like Red’s, does strongly suggest the need for therapy.

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  287. Rowan (2,068 comments) says:

    “over the years it has become apparent that D4J is a pathological liar.”

    do you have a mirror in your house big blouse? From reading any of the kb threads it is easily apparent who the “deranged” and extreme narcissist actually is

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  288. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Red’s claim to be leading a global conservative revolution that any day now will stun the world does sound a lot like some of D4J’s comments about books and tv series.

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  289. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    “I have evidence it started before it was a blogger on kiwiblog.”

    Hang on, so somehow I was abusing you before you were a Kiwiblog member? I had never heard of you D4J.

    D4J you really need to stop telling such ridiculous lies. Really man, you are only making yourself look more and more like an idiot.

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  290. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    Just one more request for you bb. Can you please post on here the “alleged emails” I sent to you.

    I bet you a $100 you can’t. How does your tic club members feel backing a disturbed pathological liar? It really shows the cowardly caliber of some bloggers.

    God help those lying sods. I pray for them. Goodnight and I look forward to you posting the emails. Haha what a poor soul.

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  291. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    “I bet you a $100 you can’t.”

    Did you not say the other night it was a $100,000.? You claimed you had that amount in ready cash from your “winnings”

    D4J, if you are going to tell lies then it pays to have a very good memory.

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  292. nasska (11,143 comments) says:

    They may have combined resources & are in fact the new Illuminutti Shawn.

    We live in fear-filled times. :)

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  293. Rowan (2,068 comments) says:

    I have to say I am not surprised re the findings of this latest Crewe murders investigation, to me it seems that in this one that the police can do no wrong and that justice is “a game to be won and lost” the outcome was predetermined in terms of protecting the image of the police, its a bloody good question why Hutton et al went to such great lengths to protect the likely killer Demler, yesterday I glanced through the IPCA report on the handling of the Malcolm Rewa rape case, it was of similar quality brush all the hard questions under the carpet and protect the police reputation at all costs. What a joke!

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  294. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    I gave a $100,000 to my Church bb. Can you post the emails and I send you $100 cash and I leave here for good.

    Surely you will do that (lol) what will gripp, Shawny and Nostradumus say when you can’t ? Haha.

    Checkmate fool. Hahaha.

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  295. Redbaiter (8,310 comments) says:

    Nanny state National and Helen Key at it again-

    The drink-drive blood alcohol limit will be lowered to 50mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood on December 1, after a bill passed tonight.

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  296. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “what will gripp, Shawny and Nostradumus say when you can’t ?”

    In my case bugger all if anything. I’m not choosing sides in this, it has nothing to do with me. But, and I say this seriously, not as an attack, I am genuinely concerned for your mental state and health D4J.

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  297. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    “I gave a $100,000 to my Church bb”

    Stop it D4J, just stop it.

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  298. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    “The drink-drive blood alcohol limit will be lowered to 50mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood on December 1, after a bill passed tonight.”

    Good.

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  299. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “The drink-drive blood alcohol limit will be lowered to 50mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood on December 1, after a bill passed tonight.”

    Good.

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  300. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Ha! Snap!

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  301. stigie (1,060 comments) says:

    “The drink-drive blood alcohol limit will be lowered to 50mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood on December 1, after a bill passed tonight.”

    Fucking good.

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  302. nasska (11,143 comments) says:

    You should be signing him up to your brand of the sects Shawn.

    Finding an extra $100,000 in the collection plate occasionally would really add piquancy to the after sermon swig on the communion wine. :)

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  303. Redbaiter (8,310 comments) says:

    Like I often say, frequently little difference between the commenters on this blog and The Standard.

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  304. dad4justice (8,057 comments) says:

    There is no difference red. Goodnight I have had enough of these Sub Standard Fools.

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  305. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    nasska

    Do you not think that a $100k donation to a church would make some sort of news?

    I can see it now, “Ex Demo worker and now Gambling guru donates $100k to his church”

    I must check out the Christchurch Press to see if it has been reported.

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  306. stigie (1,060 comments) says:

    Big difference Reddy, just like you, we can say what we like on Kiwiblog and not get banned !~

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  307. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Lowering the blood alcohol limit is perfectly consistent with a conservative pov Red.

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  308. goldnkiwi (1,259 comments) says:

    Tony Ryall and lubricant lol, who knew? ;) Good to be able to relate those anecdotes.

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  309. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “Do you not think that a $100k donation to a church would make some sort of news?”

    I don’t believe him. First, he claims he won all this money. Ok, that’s possible, but he was talking about a helluva lot of money. Then he’s prepared to wager 100,000 over the net just to see some emails, which I found difficult to take seriously, then a day later he has conveniently given it away.

    The story reeks.

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  310. big bruv (13,701 comments) says:

    Shawn

    If I had time, or the inclination, I would tell you some of the other whoppers that D4J has come out with.

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  311. Rowan (2,068 comments) says:

    “If I had time, or the inclination, I would tell you some of the other whoppers that D4J has come out with.”

    Or any substantiation of the facts ie the “truth” which is the real reason why you are to gutless to post any of it.

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  312. stigie (1,060 comments) says:

    I think his memory is showing up Shawn for all to see !~

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  313. Redbaiter (8,310 comments) says:

    Will one of you losers please give Stoogie the pat on the head he keeps begging for? Maybe then we’ll be spared any more of his sickening dog like attempts to ingratiate himself. Repellent little arse licking poodle.

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  314. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Reddy, your such a tool, but you are entertaining!

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  315. cricko (289 comments) says:

    Thanks Griff

    I am now educated re Sea/ocean trout.
    Appreciate you taking the effort to help me out.
    Good onya.

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  316. lolitasbrother (626 comments) says:

    dad4justice is a clinical case

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  317. lolitasbrother (626 comments) says:

    dad4justice is a clinical case, what day you had in New Zealand dudes, what a day.
    Over here in Thailand your Apples and Kiwi fruit sell well, and so too your honey and your ice cream, so much ice cream, the little Thai girls eat ice cream and giggle. They love you Kiwi

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  318. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Why argue? Both of your arguments amount to “Allah says”. What good can come of it?

    The truth can be supported by facts and reason. How many times have I quoted another source to back up my argument, compared to ShawnLH? He talks as if everyone should just ignore his history of lying and take his word for it.

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  319. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “The truth can be supported by facts and reason.”

    Well that totally fucks you then.

    “How many times have I quoted another source to back up my argument,”

    You mean another whackjob conspiracy web site that no intelligent or sane person would take seriously?

    ” He talks as if everyone should just ignore his history of lying”

    I don’t have a history of lying, I have a history of exposing you as a mentally deranged, Jew hating, lying piece of shit.

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