General Debate 10 August 2014

August 10th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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320 Responses to “General Debate 10 August 2014”

  1. dog_eat_dog (780 comments) says:

    Here’s a question for you – why do we let ex-pats vote when they’ve opted out of living in New Zealand?

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  2. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    The horrors of ISIS, savage followers of violent Islam:
    http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/08/08/Horrors-of-ISIS
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2719991/Horrific-new-photographs-ISIS-atrocities-prompted-Obama-act.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

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  3. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ dog_eat_dog (747 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 8:01 am

    Only those that have an interest in New Zealand are going to vote. Whether they are overseas or here – only the people that are actually concerned about the welfare of this country will make the effort – the fact a person has to leave NZ for whatever reason, doesn’t mean they stop caring about their home country. Those that have stopped caring, won’t bother to vote.

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  4. duggledog (1,556 comments) says:

    Re. TV3’s ‘The Nation debate’ and Colin Craig’s battle to be on it – (even though it’s funded by the tax payer)

    I think the only four words you need to know about why he had such a job to get on the programme can be found at the end of the broadcast: ‘Tim Watkin Executive Producer’.

    If you’ve ever listened to Jim Mora’s ‘The Panel’ on Radio New Zealand, you will have heard the clearly left wing metrosexual Tim Watkin. ‘The Panel’ is an interesting segment to listen to long term as you gradually build up a picture of regular guests’ political leanings; they drop little hints now and then. It’s a club

    Colin Craig faces insurmountable odds from the media and all other political parties. Many people know full well he has the potential – although at this stage quite small – of bringing the entire edifice of troughing, entitlement, and irresponsibility with no consequences to an end.

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  5. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    duggledog (1,383 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 8:04 am

    Colin Craig faces insurmountable odds from the media and all other political parties.

    Colin Craig faces insurmountable odds from himself. He is ‘too nice’ and doesn’t have the strengths required of a politician in today’s environment. He may have done well under Holyoake and in days of old. But you have to be prepared to be strong, and rude enough to be heard. He isn’t, he’s a lovely sensitive guy – and sooner or later he will find himself in a fix where a lawyer can’t fight his way out of it – and he doesn’t have what it takes to do it himself.

    Sadly by involving a lawyer in the TV3 debate, he put the attention on himself. He needed to preform better than everyone else in that debate because of that emphasis. He didn’t.

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  6. Pete George (23,561 comments) says:

    The Nation and 3 News seemed to be smacking Colin Craig around in retaliation for his lawyers smacking them around for excluding him from the debate.

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  7. Paulus (2,627 comments) says:

    I am waiting for the time when only New Zealand Citizens can vote in General Elections (Passport or other formal validation) and when only, named by Council, Ratepayers can vote in Local Elections.

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  8. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    ” Many people know full well he has the potential”

    I agree, and the party is not just him anymore. It has real talent in it’s ranks.

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  9. big bruv (13,888 comments) says:

    Things to do at 8.30pm this evening.

    1. Stick pins into my eyeballs.
    2. Knock on doors urging people to vote for David Cuntliffe.
    3. Eat an entire plate of Tripe.
    4. Chew glass.
    5. Read the authorised biography of Helen Klark.
    6. Watch Noam Chomsky clips on U tube.
    7. Scroll through Kiwiblog for the pearls of wisdom as written by Bedwetter.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    721. Watch “the kick” on TV One and suffer through the cringe factor and lies about the NZ National rugby team.

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  10. duggledog (1,556 comments) says:

    Judith – let me just fix something for you –

    Only those that have an interest in what they can get out of New Zealand are going to vote.

    Easy mistake to make :)

    One other thing – about Colin Craig; You could have said the exact same thing about a guy called John Key. Many people did. Look what happened there.

    Cheers

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  11. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ duggledog (1,384 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 8:12 am

    Isn’t that the same for everyone Duggledog. Don’t we all vote because we want to get the best out of the country for ourselves and those we love, our families?

    John Key and Colin Craig are miles apart. I’ve never heard anyone describe John Key as weak and pathetic. Even I wouldn’t call him that. John Key has got where he has because he’s learned to ignore the taunts, fight his own battles (not called in the lawyers everytime his feelings have been hurt) and because he would not back down to a hand in the face gesture. Craig is too nice … and too soft … or at least by involving lawyers all the time, that is the appearance he gives. I wish him well, but seriously, he comes across to me and those I converse with, as a bit of a ‘pansy’.

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  12. EAD (1,086 comments) says:

    Einstein once said of Insanity “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results”

    I’ve just been skimming through yesterday’s general debate and Duggledog’s top-rated comment caught my eye “This Takamore situation in particular should be the clarion call for Conservative, ACT and NZ First to take to the constituency leading up to the election. If they can’t make hay out of this, and if NZ can’t see what’s going on now, they never will”

    This positive reception to people on the right realising what is going on in NZ gives me hope that there might, just might be enough people to get both Act and The Conservatives into parliament above the 5% threshold.

    You can tell from the MSM’s openly hostile reaction and twisting of words of Jamie Whyte & Colin Craig, they look to be the real deal.

    They are the only 2 parties that stand in the way of the National/Labour/Greens troika continuing their 15 years misrule. For those who can remember NZ at the turn of the century, it is amazing the level of change (just about never in their manifestos) the the Nat/Lab/Green troika have imposed on us:

    1) We have gone from a small debt of a couple of billion dollars to $85 billion. http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/newzealand

    2) We have gone from a relatively stable bi-cultural society due to one where via rapid mass immigration todays Herald highlights that “Seven of the 10 most common surnames for new births in Auckland last year were of Asian origin”. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11306582

    3) Despite “talking tough” on crime and talking about “3 strikes” we have seen since 1999, a continual pattern of soft sentencing that is an insult to the victims of crime and we have arrived at a situation whereby you can ignore the highest court in the land if you are of the right race. You would have to be a big believer in government statistics to not observe that violent crime has increased substantially since 1999.

    4) More and more welfare whereby even those on 6 figure salaries are raking in hundreds of dollars a week in WFF. Rather than slow, pause or scrap this scheme, John Key doubled down.

    5) Numerous stripping of our liberties done on “conscious votes” whereby 90% of all 3 parties vote exactly the same way. Off the top of my head smoking in pubs, smacking, light-bulbs, micro-chipping, bull-rush, paddling pools, water pressure, smoking packets

    6) Rapidly advancing Maori separatism and inequality before the law. Even Labour balked eventually at the Foreshore and Seabed law whereas now the National party have no problem picking a stacked panel to advise us on a new constitution whose “recommendations” I can tell you now what they will be.

    7) Massive sales of farmland to non-residents. We are now at the stage where National will only stop allowing sales if “they consider there is if the pace of the sell-off is too rapid”. Allowing foreign capital to be invested in business should be encouraged, selling farmland is economically destructive, strategically naïve and is why it is banned in so many countries. Labour are hypocrites for their opposition of late

    8) Their cultural revolution that led all the way up to “gay marriage” and will continue next term with a “flag change” and “euthanasia legislation”. We can argue till the cows come home about the rights and wrongs of these but without exception, each of these radical changes have never been to a referendum, never been put in a manifesto (except the flag) and where debate is conducted in a hostile MSM environment where to dissent you are made to feel a pariah despite being in the silent majority of the population.

    If we don’t kick these bast*rds out and give Whyte & Craig a chance to stop this 3 party stitch-up, we deserve everything that comes our way.

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  13. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    Another attempt to nullify the treaty
    http://breakingviewsnz.blogspot.co.nz/2014/08/barend-vlaardingerbroek-kings-and.html

    I’ve been thinking about it and whatever way you slice it, the treaty doesn’t work: you can’t kill it off and you can’t really make it work as any solution is a less than optimal solution for a modern state. The real status of the treaty is that of a dead body: white settlement killed off Maori (as they were), but also made noises about compensation. Apart from some genuine(ish) treaty claims the rest are carried along on guilt (playing on emotions).

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  14. FeralScrote (217 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11306628
    Kind of ironic that the criminals are distraught that some little turd copped a hiding while out thieving .

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  15. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    California State Senate Passes Bill Requiring Schools to Teach About President Obama

    A new, unprecedented bill passed by California’s State Senate on Thursday will encourage public schools to teach students about the historical significance surrounding Barack Obama’s status as the first African-American president of the United States of America.

    http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140AB1912

    No, it is not a joke, they legislating for schools to include Obama in their history lessons!

    And in other news…

    In North Korea Students required to get Kim Jong-un haircut
    http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26747649

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  16. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    I haven’t seen that much FUD since the FUD making machine, EAD. I feel sorry for you, cowered away in the corner, unable to go outside in case you bump into a Maori, an Asian, a criminal, or a homosexual.

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  17. Pete George (23,561 comments) says:

    3 News seem to have been vindictive towards Colin Craig after he forced them to include him in The Nation debate. Media running agendas is an insidious part of democracy, they have unprecedented power and too often misuse that power, with no immediate way of holding them to account.

    3 News also seem to have an abnormal interest in promoting Winston Peters.

    What’s good for ratings is not necessarily good for democracy.

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  18. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    big bruv (13,388 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 8:11 am
    Things to do at 8.30pm this evening.

    1. Stick pins into my eyeballs.

    I wouldn’t bother with number one – there’s probably someone with a voodoo doll out there doing it for you!! :-)

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  19. SGA (1,028 comments) says:

    dog_eat_dog at 8:01 am

    Here’s a question for you – why do we let ex-pats vote when they’ve opted out of living in New Zealand?

    How would this work? Send everyone overseas a form that asks “Are you currently living overseas on a temporary basis for family, employment, sport, or life experience reasons, OR do you have no intention of ever returning to NZ?” Then those answering “yes” to the latter aren’t allowed to vote?

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  20. Pete George (23,561 comments) says:

    He needed to preform better than everyone else in that debate because of that emphasis. He didn’t.

    No he didn’t. He won his battle by appearing, and I doubt he did his chances any harm as far as his constituency was concerned.

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  21. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    Kind of ironic that the criminals are distraught that some little turd copped a hiding while out thieving .

    Two wrongs don’t make a right. Ever heard that one before? I guess it takes a rare type of person to think that bashing criminals is the way to stop them being criminals. Perhaps those are the same sort of people who support Colin Craig?

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  22. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    For EAD, Ugly Truth, Reid, wiki etc,

    From The TM message borad Flight 17,

    “Here’s RT trying to convince everyone the passengers were already dead a while, and drained of blood, long before the plane came down. That’s if you think you prefer them for “news”.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvuIhO8hACA

    To think Conpiracy theorists on KB regard Russia Today as a trustworthy news source,!

    EAD ,I couldn’t imagine two leaders like Whyte and Craig who are so politically poles apart.Or am I missing something there.?

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  23. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    3 News seem to have been vindictive towards Colin Craig after he forced them to include him in The Nation debate. Media running agendas is an insidious part of democracy, they have unprecedented power and too often misuse that power, with no immediate way of holding them to account.

    Or, quite possibly, Colin is a serial litigator nut-bar with a weird personality, who doesn’t come across on TV or in life. Since when did you become a tin-foiler, Pete? I always thought you were quite reasonable.

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  24. EAD (1,086 comments) says:

    pathetic and offensive strawman tricky – when you don’t have an argument, just slander the opposition in order to silence debate.

    I could just repost the 11 point plan of the Frankfurt school to destroy Western Civilisation from within and lets compare each of these points to what social change has occurred in the last 15 years:

    1. The creation of racism offences.
    2. Continual change to create confusion
    3. The teaching of sex and homosexuality to children
    4. The undermining of schools’ and teachers’ authority
    5. Huge immigration to destroy identity.
    6. The promotion of excessive drinking
    7. Emptying of churches
    8. An unreliable legal system with bias against victims of crime
    9. Dependency on the state or state benefits
    10. Control and dumbing down of media
    11. Encouraging the breakdown of the family

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  25. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    Yes, Tim Watkin, the shameless apologist for Labour and the Greens every week on NewstalkZB.
    Why Larry Williams keeps him as guest is a mystery to all listeners.

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  26. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “He needed to preform better than everyone else in that debate because of that emphasis. He didn’t.”

    A matter of opinion, but he only needed to perform well, not win, and he did.

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  27. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Pete

    No, he wouldn’t have done any harm to those that already support him. But for those looking at a conservative option, which basically puts them with either Conservatives or NZ First – he did a lot of harm, because compared to Winston in that debate, Craig’s performance was weak and uneasy.

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  28. Yvette (2,819 comments) says:

    I do find the anti-Semitic defacement of National hoardings very upsetting.
    I do hope they are naturally counter-productive.
    It displays an utterly sad mentality
    Even more so when they draw the Nazi swastika backwards.
    The arms point clockwise, you fucking morons.
    Im Uhrzeigersinn, anstatt im Gegenuhrzeigersinn, Idioten

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  29. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    just slander the opposition in order to silence debate.

    This debate?

    1) Be aware of debt
    2) Be afraid of Asians
    3) Watch out, the crims are coming to get you after that
    4) Loser humans are taking your tax money
    5) Big Brother is telling you what to do
    6) Maori are getting stuff you should be
    7) Immigrants are buying all the land
    8) The gays have got stuff and who knows what’s next

    Glad I could assist in summarising your debate for everyone to digest.

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  30. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    EAD, could you source that alleged 11 point agenda from the “Frankfurt school ” to destroy Western Civilization.?

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  31. Pete George (23,561 comments) says:

    itstricky – funny to see democratic fairness linked to tin foil hats.

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  32. calendar girl (1,232 comments) says:

    @8:22am – “I haven’t seen that much FUD since the FUD making machine, EAD. I feel sorry for you, cowered away in the corner, unable to go outside in case you bump into a Maori, an Asian, a criminal, or a homosexual.”

    Why, itstricky, must an ad hominem be your first reaction to somebody else’s views?

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  33. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    itstricky (1,603 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 8:22 am
    I feel sorry for you, cowered away in the corner, unable to go outside in case you bump into a Maori, an Asian, a criminal, or a homosexual.
    ………..
    What party do you support or falsley represent itstricky (do you hide under a green leaf or put your boots on and mingle with the workers?

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  34. EAD (1,086 comments) says:

    How about trickguy @ 8.34:

    1) It is morally wrong to put future generations in debt so the existing generation can live a lifestyle they didn’t earn
    2) It is a fast way to tear apart a country’s social fabric by allowing mass immigration and then have an official “multi-cultural” policy that encourages separatism
    3) Do you like living in a violent society?
    4) Since when have the self-supporting middle class been losers and required govt handouts?
    5) Yes – have you read 1984 by any chance.
    6) This is called “apartheid”
    7) I didn’t say that, I said “non-residents”
    8) I said when was this ever put before the public? What right and mandate do temporary politicians have to change on a whim, without a mandate, a 2 thousand + year old religious ceremony?

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  35. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    I think istricky is the one wearing a tin foil hat.

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  36. FeralScrote (217 comments) says:

    Dry ur tears Tricky, this little turd took his chances and came off second best ,it is called living in the real world.
    Now if he has 1/2 a clue he`ll take a lesson and move on,but unfortunately with advice from bleeding hearts like your goodself he`ll be brainwashed that he is the real victim and no doubt develope a victim mentality that ,what you have is his by right to help himself to.
    Once you have been the victim of crime (property or violent )Tricky you may come to understand this reality,but I won`t hold me breath.

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  37. EAD (1,086 comments) says:

    Hi Stephie – it’s called “Critical Theory” from the Marxist playbook

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory

    “Using Critical Theory, for example, the cultural Marxist repeats and repeats the charge that the West is guilty of genocidal crimes against every civilization and culture it has encountered. Under Critical theory, one repeats and repeats that Western societies are history’s greatest repositories of racism, sexism, nativism, xenophobia, homophobia, anti-Semitism, fascism and Nazism. Under Critical Theory, the crimes of the West flow from the character of the West, as shaped by Christianity… Under the impact of Critical Theory, many of the sixties generation, the most privileged in history, convinced themselves that they were living in an intolerable hell”

    So yes, after having read all the great Austrian school texts, I put myself through the pain of reading the Marxist/Communist ones (even Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals”) to understand their thought origins. It was an eye-opener into just how much they love the state and people living independent, self-sufficient lives.

    The good thing is knowing the way they think, makes it easier to engage and destroy in verbal combat, the likes of Mr Tricky…..

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  38. IGM (392 comments) says:

    Is it possible to get an audit on donations of left-wing messengers (masquerading as journos) at Fairfax and Parliament funding this criminal McCready’s continuous court proceedings? I think we are morally entitled to know the full story about these donations, also those of that weird woman Bright in Auckland; she being the one who does not pay rates!

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  39. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    itstricky (1,604 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 8:34 am

    just slander the opposition in order to silence debate.

    This debate?

    1) Be aware of debt

    Reserve Bank of India (RBI) governor Raghuram Rajan says global markets are at risk of a “crash” should investors start bailing out of risky assets created by the loose monetary policies of developed economies.

    The former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund compared the current global markets to the 1930s – a period marked by the Great Depression.
    http://in.reuters.com/article/2014/08/06/india-rbi-markets-idINKBN0G61M220140806

    2) Be afraid of Asians

    a massive new study, based on detailed interviews of nearly 30,000 people across America, has concluded just the opposite. Harvard political scientist Robert Putnam — famous for “Bowling Alone,” his 2000 book on declining civic engagement — has found that the greater the diversity in a community, the fewer people vote and the less they volunteer, the less they give to charity and work on community projects. In the most diverse communities, neighbors trust one another about half as much as they do in the most homogenous settings. The study, the largest ever on civic engagement in America, found that virtually all measures of civic health are lower in more diverse settings.

    “The extent of the effect is shocking,” says Scott Page, a University of Michigan political scientist.

    http://boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2007/08/05/the_downside_of_diversity/

    Recommendations Savings Working Group

    – Serious consideration of the impact of the level and variability of immigration on national saving, and the impact that this might have on the living standards of New Zealanders. There are indications that our high immigration rate has pushed up government spending, house prices and business borrowing.

    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/reviews-consultation/savingsworkinggroup/pdfs/swg-report-jan11.pdf

    etc

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  40. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    IGM (3 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 8:54 am

    So you are working from the premise that the media do tell us what we should think, and that we are all stupid enough to do that, and that there are left wing journalists, but there are no right wing journos to balance them?

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  41. EAD (1,086 comments) says:

    that should be HATE people living independent, self-sufficient lives

    in any case, must log-off Kiwiblog and get back to the forum over on Zerohedge…

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  42. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    itstricky – funny to see democratic fairness linked to tin foil hats.

    Yes, now that I re-read what you’ve got I see you were talking a bit more about media democratic fairness. Sorry. But I don’t think the guy needs to do much to have the media turn on/against him. He’s the laughing stock.

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  43. tom hunter (4,838 comments) says:

    An interesting article here by a guy who departed Russia twenty years ago. He’s writing about the recent anti-Obama street display in Moscow:

    Of all the problems with the Obama-mocking display, racism is probably the least disturbing. Trust me as someone who comes from the former USSR: those “patriots” don’t hate Obama “just because he’s black.” They hate him because in their minds he represents the “vile” America — including its “stupid” people, its “horrible” history, its “materialistic” values, and its “unfair” economy.

    Today’s average media consumer in Russia believes that the recent Ukrainian revolution (and all other “color” revolutions around their borders) was engineered and paid for by America with the sole purpose of hurting Russia, destroying its spirit, conquering its land, and taking over its natural resources.

    The majority of Russians now believe that the CIA and the State Department had planted their agents in Ukraine in order to spread Russophobia and stage a bloody “fascist” coup. They believe that the Pentagon is now arming and training Ukrainians to kill ethnic Russians, having effectively split the brotherly Slavic nations and turned them on one another. Why? “They just hate us because we’re Russians.” Sound familiar?

    Sounds very familiar to a lot of stuff I’ve been seeing on matters Russian in Kiwiblog recently

    The amount of militant nationalism and xenophobia Putin has been able to whip up inside Russia would have made Hitler look like an amateur. While no true patriot would support a regime that is destroying his country like cancer, in new Orwellian Russia the “patriots” are the ones running the country into the ground. As they hysterically pledge to fight “fascism” everywhere, they support everything that fascism stands for.

    A number of commentators have tried to point this out by showing the neo-Nazi groups operating in Russia, people proud enough of what they say that they put it up on Facebook and YouTube. There’s nothing secret about it.

    It doesn’t even occur to the brainwashed Russian supremacists that all the crimes that the Kremlin’s propaganda is falsely attributing to America, Russia is doing in real life, point by point. It is actually Russia that sends agents to a sovereign county, arms violent thugs, spreads ethnic hatred, creates the appearance of a popular uprising that is really controlled by military intelligence, and orchestrates bloodshed in order to achieve its imperialist geopolitical goals.

    One can learn a lot about actions and intentions of a paranoid autocratic regime by examining what it is accusing its “enemies” of doing, be they real or imaginary. The Russian state-run media is painting a picture of a U.S.-dominated world as a violent, dark, cynical, and corrupt dystopia

    It’s always worth looking at the phenomena of projection when one is being attacked. However, the writer, Oleg Atbashian, has a key point to make near the end:

    As an Obama critic from even before the election, I’m glad that for once he is taking the right side in this conflict, although he could surely do a lot more. One of the things he absolutely should have done is to direct his administration to counter the harmful anti-American propaganda emanating from the Kremlin. Once the dirt settles, it is always harder to clean up. It would probably cause him a severe case of cognitive dissonance to do so, as he obviously grew up believing in Moscow’s own cold-war clichés that all the world’s problems are America’s fault. His belief that the world would be a better place if only the U.S. played nice earned him an advanced Nobel Peace Prize, which obviously made defending America in the eyes of the world even more difficult.

    As with many other things happening in the world (ISIS comes to mind) the sort of shit that Putin is engaging in (and has been for many years) has to be met head-on and early.

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  44. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    Once you have been the victim of crime (property or violent )Tricky you may come to understand this reality,but I won`t hold me breath.

    Meh, most people have been victims of crime of some sort, or another, in their lives. Get off your high horse. Bashing the crims. isn’t the answer and doesn’t fix anything. That’s why this thing called ‘The Law’ exists.

    Can’t believe I’m saying this.

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  45. OneTrack (3,093 comments) says:

    dog_eat_dog – “Here’s a question for you – why do we let ex-pats vote when they’ve opted out of living in New Zealand?”

    Because we are stupid.

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  46. G152 (341 comments) says:

    When the only attack the left can mount against Key/National is defacing hoardings with hate symbols they must be pretty desperate.

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  47. wiseowl (893 comments) says:

    EAD.@8.17 am
    Great summary.
    The most frustrating thing for many is the fact that over the last two terms of parliament National have done NOTHING to address any of these issues.
    In fact they have made it worse and are proud of it.
    The extraordinary full page advert in our paper last week for the National candidate had bullet points for WFF ,extending paid parental leave and all the other social policies that Labour champion.
    Amazing.

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  48. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘It would probably cause him a severe case of cognitive dissonance to do so, as he obviously grew up believing in Moscow’s own cold-war clichés that all the world’s problems are America’s fault.’
    Secret communist as well as secret Muslim?

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  49. tom hunter (4,838 comments) says:

    yawn

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  50. OneTrack (3,093 comments) says:

    Pete – “3 News seem to have been vindictive towards Colin Craig after he forced them to include him in The Nation debate. ”

    3 News seem to have been vindictive towards Colin Craig. FIFY.

    The progressives are so tolerant. Yeah, right.

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  51. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    Why do we let residents vote. We can’t vote in their countries?

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  52. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    EAD, all I asked was the source of your 11 point agenda .Kindly oblige.

    Meanwhile even Fox Nation weighs in against the xenophobic hysteria created by the Ebola virus.Some facts are in order.About 5,000 have died from the virus which compares with the millions who have died from flu epidemics not to mention AIDs.It’s spread largely by the exchange of body fluids and not by holding hands, brushing past some one etc.
    It’s highly unlikely to spread in countries with a well developed health and hospital infrastructure like here and the US and unlike West and central Africa.
    Unfortunately it’s Conspiracy web sites and many Conservative blogs that are responsible for much of the hysteria and misinformation.

    http://nation.foxnews.com/2014/08/06/gutfeld-stop-ebola-hysteria

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  53. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ G152 (177 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 9:06 am

    And so what is your excuse for the hoardings from other parties that have been vandalised? Where I live there is not one political hoarding standing or unvandalised after friday night. So, please do tell me, how do you explain that?

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  54. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “The extraordinary full page advert in our paper last week for the National candidate had bullet points for WFF ,extending paid parental leave and all the other social policies that Labour champion.
    Amazing.”

    Not really. While Left vs Right are general indicators, specific policies can be good or bad regardless of which side of the Left/Right divide they come from. And JK is clearly committed to a mixed economy along the lines of European conservative parties.

    The economics of the “dry” type advocated by ACT are one possible Right wing view, but not the only one.

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  55. OneTrack (3,093 comments) says:

    Judith – “But for those looking at a conservative option, which basically puts them with either Conservatives or NZ First – he did a lot of harm, because compared to Winston in that debate, Craig’s performance was weak and uneasy.”

    Yeah, he should have stayed under a rock which is where TV3 and Tim Watkin wanted him to stay. They were doing him a favour by not including him – thanks Tim. You’re such a great guy.

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  56. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    hj (6,490 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 9:11 am
    Why do we let residents vote. We can’t vote in their countries?

    Why do we let people vote – the vast majority of them are sinners? :P

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  57. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Why do we let residents vote. We can’t vote in their countries?”

    Because we (us permanent residents) pay taxes. I don’t pay taxes in the US, so I don’t vote in US elections, despite being a US citizen. Neither do you. But I do pay taxes in NZ.

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  58. kowtow (8,470 comments) says:

    Muslim immigration is against the national interest.

    http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/a_100_war_against_islam_then_surely_our_immigration_program_must_change/

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  59. OneTrack (3,093 comments) says:

    itstricky – “1) Be aware of debt”

    And of course every socialist knows that’s just silly. You should ignore debt and just tax the population more.

    And if in doubt, print more dollars – 1 trillion new zealand peso notes should cover it.

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  60. wreck1080 (3,912 comments) says:

    Why do thieves and burglars expect to be treated with respect when they’re caught????

    “Blues rugby player Peter Saili is alleged to have beaten a 13-year-old boy whom he caught burgling his home.”
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11306628

    “The older brother said he was “pissed off” about the alleged viciousness of Saili’s reaction.”

    But it is just fine to burgle and thieve?

    I bet this little 13 year turd will go on to create misery and mayhem

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  61. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ OneTrack (2,667 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 9:17 am

    That is not what I’m saying. I was simply pointing out that by taking it to the lawyers, it became headline stuff, meaning more people watched it. Something Craig was obviously aware was going to happen, and would make him the focus. He needed to be extremely strong in the debate knowing he was going to be centre of attention, and also that TV3 would probably treat him unfairly – he needed to show that he was worthy of being there and had something really special to contribute. He didn’t stand out – and therefore, with such a large audience he exposed himself as weaker – he would have been better off not being in it, because he has probably made many people take the alternative option, whereas without it, they would still be undecided.

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  62. Griff (7,700 comments) says:

    Colon Crag is gaining from the build up of resentment any political party accrues while in power.
    The fact that his politics are more aligned with the center populist wittering of whinny is amusing. KB’s confused conservative’s are flocking to support him based solely on the name “Conservative”
    Pity as I would like to see the monolithic national party fracture into liberal and conservative blocks.
    We have a liberal party in act a centralist party in national and a confused party in Colons supporters but no socially conservative truly right leaning party.

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  63. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    Tom Hunter, now what would you be doing if President of the USA in respect of e.g the Ukraine and Crimea .What military action would you undertake.?
    Blockade the Bosporus.?
    Storm the beaches of the Crimea.
    A blitz land invasion from Poland.?
    Airborne invasion of Eastern Ukraine.?
    Maybe Nuclear options.?

    Please be highly specific about your military options .
    Include costings if you like. Lower Taxes.?
    Deficit funding/ credit card etc.

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  64. FeralScrote (217 comments) says:

    Lol Tricky, “Can’t believe I’m saying this.”

    That`s what happens when you live in a fantasy world of rainbows and unicorns.

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  65. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    My wife has been emailing MP’s and politicians in general about the persecution and mass murder of religious minorities by ISIS.

    So far, only one has responded. A candidate for the Conservative party. The party shot up dramatically in my estimation as a result.

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  66. EAD (1,086 comments) says:

    an in depth look at ISIS from a journalist who spent 3 weeks inside the “Islamic State” http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-09/obama-launches-another-iraq-assault-here-undercover-look-inside-isis

    John Lennon may have a reputation from some on the right as a drug-smoking leftie-hippy, but the more and more I look at all the bloodsheed and violence being carried out in the name of religion and by Politicians who lead “countries “(i.e. geographic areas on the map), perhaps John was right when he sang:

    Imagine there’s no countries
    It isn’t hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion too
    Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace…

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  67. eszett (2,408 comments) says:

    Because we pay taxes. I don’t pay taxes in the US, so I don’t vote in US elections, despite being a US citizen. Neither do you. But I do pay taxes in NZ.

    But you still have the right to vote in the US if you hold the citizenship.

    To be fair, not many countries allow their residents to vote, only citizens. Despite them paying taxes. I certainly couldn’t name another one (if you discount local and city counsel elections).

    But I do agree with you, it’s the right thing to do, NZ is a country of immigrants, people who come here to live permanently and pay taxes should have the right to vote.

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  68. flipper (4,060 comments) says:

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha …….

    Seymour and Goldsmith by a country mile…..

    Q+A’s backroom kids must be fuming….. and Seymour’s put down of Smalley over Whyte was brilliant.

    Now when did Genter, Wood and Smalley get Phuds from Cambridge? ( Not a Phud, among any of them? Look at Genter’s nutty traffic policies. A dumb Californian.) They don’t give them away at Cambridge as they do at OU and AU.

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  69. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “But you still have the right to vote in the US if you hold the citizenship.”

    As far as I know, but I’m not 100% sure as I think there may be laws requiring me to be resident (on paper at least) in a state.

    I should try to find out for curiosities sake.

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  70. tom hunter (4,838 comments) says:

    What military action would you undertake.?

    Debate framing with reductio ad absurdum options can be done Stephieboy – if you’re smart enough to be subtle.

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  71. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Debate framing with reductio ad absurdum options”

    Standard stephieboy tactic.

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  72. OneTrack (3,093 comments) says:

    ead – “Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace…”

    Didn’t they have a test run of that – Communist Russia? Not sure the people inside the experiment thought it worked out that well.

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  73. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Perhaps tom would be happier listing all the things Obama has done wrong in respect of Ukraine and Iraq rather than proposing any future policies.

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  74. tom hunter (4,838 comments) says:

    Perhaps mikenmild can tell us what he thinks Obama should do in Ukraine and Iraq.

    A single sentence should be sufficient. It’s Sunday after all, wouldn’t want him to pull a muscle.

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  75. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Nixon vs. Obama: Yes, Nixon was bad but Obama is worse.

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/08/09/nixon-vs-obama-yes-nixon-was-bad-but-obama-is-worse/

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  76. SGA (1,028 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 9:32 am

    As far as I know, but I’m not 100% sure as I think there may be laws requiring me to be resident (on paper at least) in a state.

    I believe you can vote (they use your last state of residence). You’ll probably get a raft of state propositions too if you last lived in CA :-)
    Conversely, US resident aliens pay tax, don’t they, but can’t vote? (while NZ permanent residents are given very close to citizen rights).

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  77. Pete George (23,561 comments) says:

    Your beliefs don’t make you a better person, your behavior does.

    http://i.imgur.com/IROQTI0.jpg

    Providing the behaviour is better.

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  78. Scott Chris (6,137 comments) says:

    For those who choose to abide by the law, when it comes to defending your property the word of the law is clear:

    Under the Crimes Act, a person finding a burglar on their property may make an arrest until police arrive.

    Reasonable force is permitted in self-defence, and people are justified in using “such force as is necessary” to prevent the forcible breaking and entering of their home.

    So perhaps a man who breaks the law by beating the crap out of a defenceless 13-year old burglar deserves to have the crap beaten out of him if he is to apply the same measure of punishment for his transgression.

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  79. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Yes Shawn, you will be listing the ‘high crimes’ for which Obama should be impeached next.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/07/republicans_back_away_from_the_call_to_impeach_president_obama_the_gop_understands.html

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  80. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “War Crimes in Gaza? By any historical standard, Israel’s air attacks were a model of restraint.”

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/war-crimes-gaza_802178.html

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  81. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    Tom hunter, you are utterly dishonest . The questions I put are simple and straightforward.
    What would be your preferred military options that you would undertake as the Commander in Chief of the US.?? I’ve outlined some .
    Provide yours if you like including , naturally, another invasion and occupation of Iraq.

    EAD , does zero hedge align itself with ISIS by chance.Did the alleged undercover correspondent with them turn a blind eye to their atrocities or approve them.
    There is a lot more at stake than the US embassy.The starving yazyda and other minorities that ISIS want to eliminate escapes the attention Zero hedge or is it yet another Conspiracy .?

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  82. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    ShawnLH says at 9:32 am

    “As far as I know, but I’m not 100% sure as I think there may be laws requiring me to be resident (on paper at least) in a state.”

    According to the law maybe.
    However, as you can vote without documentation all around the US (because demanding documentation is raaaaacist!), as several people have done more than once, and even dead people come to the pole to vote , the problem is highly rhetorical.

    The next question: Why do all Zombies vote Democrat?

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  83. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “I believe you can vote (they use your last state of residence). You’ll probably get a raft of state propositions too if you last lived in CA ”

    Thankfully my last state of residence was Florida. :)

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  84. wiseowl (893 comments) says:

    The first thing Labour should do is get rid of Barnett.

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  85. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ah, Andy, the vote fraud canard…

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  86. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    Shawn, what impeachable offences has Obama committed apart from perhaps the colour of his skin.?
    Your sources re Fox New ( the Russia Today of the West ) as always impeccable and beyond reproach .,

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  87. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Provide yours if you like including , naturally, another invasion and occupation of Iraq.”

    An invasion would not be necessary. It would only require an invite from the government and raising troop levels enough to do the job.

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  88. kowtow (8,470 comments) says:

    Celebrating diversity and mulitculturalism………

    http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/497046/F-off-Jew-What-I-was-told-when-I-photographed-a-jihadist-flag-flying-in-London

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  89. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Shawn, what impeachable offences has Obama committed apart from perhaps the colour of his skin.?”

    Read the article. And your notion that people oppose him because of his skin color is just plain dumb. I’m sure a fringe minority do, but most who oppose Obama could care less about his skin color.

    Tom is right, you frame questions in a deliberately pejorative way that is dishonest.

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  90. tom hunter (4,838 comments) says:

    Tom hunter, you are utterly dishonest . The questions I put are simple and straightforward.

    The questions you put forward are the usual debate framing, “have you stopped beating your wife”, questions.

    Yaaaaawnnnnn 2.0.

    Would you like me to talk about the holistic approach I think Obama should take now: diplomatic, economic, military, and covert?

    And in a desperate attempt to make the conversation interesting what do you think should be done and is it any different to what Obama is already doing? Is there anything – anything – you would criticise Obama for on this front?

    You’re a doppleganger for the Putin-worshipping Andrei.

    Idiot.

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  91. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘It would only require an invite from the government’
    That would be the same government that rejected a US presence after 2011?
    And that would be also setting aside the fact that a new commitment of troops to Iraq would be extremely unpopular in the US.

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  92. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    From kowtow’s link:

    I WAS told this morning by a community activist in east London to be kind in this article to the Bengali Muslim youths who threatened violence last night…and who told me to “F*** off Jew, you’re not welcome here.”

    So let me state her well-meaning view that they’re “good boys” and that they’ve been raising much money for the victims of the terrible violence in Gaza.

    My wife, a Bengali Muslim herself, disagrees.

    She thinks they’re a “disgrace”, both to their families and to their shared community.

    My wife is always right.

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  93. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    Chinese Eugenics

    Chinese biopower has ancient roots in the concept of “yousheng” (“good birth”—which has the same literal meaning as “eugenics”). For a thousand years, China has been ruled by a cognitive meritocracy selected through the highly competitive imperial exams. The brightest young men became the scholar-officials who ruled the masses, amassed wealth, attracted multiple wives, and had more children. The current “gaokao” exams for university admission, taken by more than 10 million young Chinese per year, are just the updated version of these imperial exams—the route to educational, occupation, financial, and marital success. With the relaxation of the one-child policy, wealthier couples can now pay a “social fostering fee” (shehui fuyangfei) to have an extra child, restoring China’s traditional link between intelligence, education, wealth, and reproductive success.

    Chinese eugenics will quickly become even more effective, given its massive investment in genomic research on human mental and physical traits. BGI-Shenzhen employs more than 4,000 researchers. It has far more “next-generation” DNA sequencers that anywhere else in the world, and is sequencing more than 50,000 genomes per year. It recently acquired the California firm Complete Genomics to become a major rival to Illumina.

    The BGI Cognitive Genomics Project is currently doing whole-genome sequencing of 1,000 very-high-IQ people around the world, hunting for sets of sets of IQ-predicting alleles. I know because I recently contributed my DNA to the project, not fully understanding the implications. These IQ gene-sets will be found eventually—but will probably be used mostly in China, for China. Potentially, the results would allow all Chinese couples to maximize the intelligence of their offspring by selecting among their own fertilized eggs for the one or two that include the highest likelihood of the highest intelligence. Given the Mendelian genetic lottery, the kids produced by any one couple typically differ by 5 to 15 IQ points. So this method of “preimplantation embryo selection” might allow IQ within every Chinese family to increase by 5 to 15 IQ points per generation. After a couple of generations, it would be game over for Western global competitiveness.

    There is unusually close cooperation in China between government, academia, medicine, education, media, parents, and consumerism in promoting a utopian Han ethno-state.
    Given what I understand of evolutionary behavior genetics, I expect—and hope—that they will succeed. The welfare and happiness of the world’s most populous country depends upon it.

    My real worry is the Western response. The most likely response, given Euro-American ideological biases, would be a bioethical panic that leads to criticism of Chinese population policy with the same self-righteous hypocrisy that we have shown in criticizing various Chinese socio-cultural policies. But the global stakes are too high for us to act that stupidly and short-sightedly. A more mature response would be based on mutual civilizational respect, asking—what can we learn from what the Chinese are doing, how can we help them, and how can they help us to keep up as they create their brave new world?

    Nassim Nicholas Taleb
    Distinguished Professor of Risk Engineering, New York University School of Engineering ; Author, Incerto (Antifragile, The Black Swan..)
    http://edge.org/responses/what-should-we-be-worried-about

    what was istricky saying?

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  94. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “That would be the same government that rejected a US presence after 2011?”

    That was prior to the rise of ISIS.

    “And that would be also setting aside the fact that a new commitment of troops to Iraq would be extremely unpopular in the US.”

    Not necessarily. The mass persecution and killing of Christians by ISIS could change that dynamic.

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  95. kowtow (8,470 comments) says:

    The White House does not and did not need to undertake another ‘invasion” of Iraq.

    When the ISIS terrorsist first poured over the border from Syria was the chance for major airstrikes on their columns.Clear targets out in the open,no warning .Seek and destroy.(Our security services would have been delighted,fewer terrorists to come “home”)

    But nope ,2 things.

    First the Syria dilemma,ISIS are doing Obamas work in Syria,so the WH does not want to wipe them out,which it could.

    Second.The WH was happy for ISIS and the Sunni tribes to put pressure on Maliki for reforms in Iraq.In fact Obama almost said as much!

    Look where that’s got the idiot in the White House.

    Now Cameron and Obama pose as saviour of minorities in Iraq.Finebut why didn’t they protect those minorities in Syria?

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  96. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    tom
    Sorry, missed your 9.45am. Just talking about Ukraine, it seems to me that there is not too much more that the US can do than that which it has already done. Sanctions against Russia, limited support to Ukraine and solidarity with her European security partners seem to me to be about the limits of what US power can achieve. There is obviously a continuing risk of Russian invasion, perhaps under the guise of a ‘humanitarian’ mission in eastern Ukraine, but there is not much more that the US can do to deter this. Certainly, there wouild be no appetite in the US for an overt military involvement should things deteriorate.

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  97. Nookin (3,341 comments) says:

    I am curious about the ridicule heaped on Craig for calling in the lawyers — even to the point that he had to excel in order to justify his presence.

    I actually find it scary that a news medium took it upon itself to decide what political views the public would hear and what political views the public could not hear and that the over-riding criterion was the convenience of the news medium itself.

    It is also scary that it took a high court judge to point out the error of its ways and scarier still that said news medium treated him as an uninvited nuisance in defiance of the court ruling that the exclusion of the conservatives was unfair.

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  98. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    The one thing that terrifies liberal media more then someone on the Right, is someone on the Right who is socially conservative.

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  99. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    Shawn L H, read the link.Now again at a loss to know what Obama gas done that is impeachable rembering to this has been going on ever since 2008.

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  100. flipper (4,060 comments) says:

    wiseowl (782 comments) says:

    August 10th, 2014 at 9:53 am

    The first thing Labour should do is get rid of Barnett.

    *****

    Yeahhhhh, Nah.

    He is helpful, but not for labour.

    Say…. I had forgotten about the chin.

    Is that “chin” a genetic trait, or mandatory requirement for the rainbow mob and labour?

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  101. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    eszett (2,343 comments) says:

    NZ is a country of immigrants
    …..
    Embedded in that idea is the appeal to tradition fallacy.

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  102. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Now again at a loss”

    Yes, you are. :)

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  103. Kiwi Dave (89 comments) says:

    Dog eat dog

    It takes a bit more effort for ex-pats to vote in NZ elections, so you have to really want to vote. As I fully intended to return here to live, had a house and most of my savings in NZ, I made a point of staying in touch and voting in the 10 years I was overseas.

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  104. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Embedded in that idea is the appeal to tradition fallacy.”

    Not everyone believes that an appeal to tradition is a fallacy.

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  105. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    It’d be helpful is you listed just a few of the impeachable offences, Shawn. Just for me and Stephie, who can’t pick them up from the Fox article.

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  106. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Because Mike the article was comparing their overall performance, not specifically impeachable offenses.

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  107. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,963 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 9:19 am

    “Why do we let residents vote. We can’t vote in their countries?”

    Because we (us permanent residents) pay taxes.
    ….
    you pay taxes for government services. That doesn’t give you the right to vote. You are a resident, non citizen by choice. Why should you be able to vote when policies may favour your own country over the one you are resident in?

    More than 94 per cent of Chinese permanent residents and more than half of those with NZ citizenship told University of Auckland researchers that they felt a greater sense of belonging and identified more with their country of origin than New Zealand.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/multiculturalism/news/article.cfm?c_id=58&objectid=10783815

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  108. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    mikenmild says

    “Ah, Andy, the vote fraud canard…”

    Canard?

    canard (plural canards)
    1.A false or misleading report or story, especially if deliberately so.

    Of course MM.
    Even the NPR is in on the conspiracy.

    1.8 Million Dead People Still Registered To Vote\
    http://www.npr.org/2012/02/14/146827471/study-1-8-million-dead-people-still-registered-to-vote

    Cincinnati poll worker sentenced to 5 years for voter fraud in presidential elections
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/19/cincinnati-poll-worker-sentenced-to-5-years-for-voter-fraud-in-presidential/

    Voting fraud suspects claim they weren’t trying to cheat
    http://www.wral.com/news/local/politics/story/9984810/#kOZjlfuiT6g9AU8w.99

    Wake voters arrested for voting twice in 2008
    https://www.dailyadvance.com/node/612689

    So many examples so little time….

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  109. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “you pay taxes for government services. That doesn’t give you the right to vote.”

    Yes, to me it does. If I pay taxes I should have a say in how those taxes are spent. Also, the law itself gives me the right.

    “Why should you be able to vote when policies may favour your own country over the one you are resident in?”

    Lol! What policies might those be?

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  110. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,966 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 10:15 am

    “Embedded in that idea is the appeal to tradition fallacy.”

    Not everyone believes that an appeal to tradition is a fallacy.
    ….
    Appeal to Tradition is a fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that something is better or correct simply because it is older, traditional, or “always has been done.” This sort of “reasoning” has the following form:

    X is old or traditional
    Therefore X is correct or better.
    ….
    In NZ’s case you are arguing that while NZ became a developed agricultural country it will be better off with more people. Doing What – after 20 years of population growth we are worse off (except for developers etc).

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  111. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Appeal to Tradition is a fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that something is better or correct simply because it is older, traditional, or “always has been done.”

    Yes, that’s called being a conservative. :)

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  112. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “In NZ’s case you are arguing that while NZ became a developed agricultural country it will be better off with more people. Doing What?”

    You will need to rephrase the question. In it’s current form I can’t discern what your saying or asking.

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  113. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    That`s what happens when you live in a fantasy world of rainbows and unicorns.

    Suppose I’d live in the world more readily than I would live in EAD’s. Would never leave the house for fear of being turned gay, or Maori, or something if that was the case.

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  114. Pete George (23,561 comments) says:

    Not everyone believes that an appeal to tradition is a fallacy.

    I doubt many people would believe that.

    Tradition is important – but adapting to a changing world is at least as important.

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  115. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,967 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 10:25 am

    “you pay taxes for government services. That doesn’t give you the right to vote.”

    Yes, to me it does. If I pay taxes I should have a say in how those taxes are spent. Also, the law itself gives me the right.
    ……..
    The law gives you the right because of our wet politicians
    ===========

    “Why should you be able to vote when policies may favour your own country over the one you are resident in?”

    Lol! What policies might those be?
    ….
    policies pertaining to immigration and access to lands and property.

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  116. jcuk (686 comments) says:

    Yvette (2,711 comments) says:

    August 10th, 2014 at 8:32 am
    I do find the anti-Semitic defacement of National hoardings very upsetting.
    I do hope they are naturally counter-productive.
    It displays an utterly sad mentality
    Even more so when they draw the Nazi swastika backwards.
    The arms point clockwise, you fucking morons.
    Im Uhrzeigersinn, anstatt im Gegenuhrzeigersinn, Idioten

    Perhaps they wish him good luck … I gather the Nazi picked the wrong direction ? :)

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  117. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “The law gives you the right because of our wet politicians”

    Well that’s a matter of opinion.

    “policies pertaining to immigration and access to lands and property.”

    The problem is that this is inherently subjective. It’s not possible to know for sure what is in peoples minds and you cannot make laws on that basis. Moreover, it becomes more subjective when you factor in the fact that immigrants might become citizens, and still vote in the way you say. So simply restricting voting to citizens does not take away the problem your concerned about.

    Add to that a further complication, what is good or bad for NZ is itself subjective. I consider the policies of the Greens and IMP to be very bad for NZ. Should voting be restricted on that basis? Of course not.

    This argument hinges on what you personally think is good or bad for NZ, not on anything objective.

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  118. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    itstricky – “1) Be aware of debt”

    And of course every socialist knows that’s just silly. You should ignore debt and just tax the population more.

    Yes, OneTrack, in isolation that first point was a bit of a silly thing for me to write. What I was trying to convey, however, was not single points but the overall feeling of fear, fear, fear that was conveyed by EAD’s “preaching” (for lack of better words, it certainly wasn’t a debatable debate)

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  119. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “Not everyone believes that an appeal to tradition is a fallacy.”

    I doubt many people would believe that.

    Tradition is important – but adapting to a changing world is at least as important.

    An appeal to tradition is a logical fallacy, but it does not follow that something is wrong simply because it is traditional.

    Trying to adapt without knowledge what has and hasn’t worked in the past is likely to be an exercise in futility.

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  120. Redbaiter (8,823 comments) says:

    “I actually find it scary that a news medium took it upon itself to decide what political views the public would hear and what political views the public could not hear ”

    Well then you must have lived most of your life in perpetual fear then, which is probably something the left value.

    FFS, the left have owned the MSM now for decades. Why do you think there are so many slow witted robots around repeating arguments with logic holes you can drive a truck through? They have no ideas of their own, they just repeat whatever MSM left wing mantra is fashionable or current.

    The Nation is produced by Tim Watkin, who is a paid up member of the so wet their pissing their pants Progressive media club. Why the hell wouldn’t it be anti-Colin Craig?????

    The thing is, you shouldn’t be fearful, you should be angry at the utter hopelessness of the so called NZ right (that’s National) for (1) allowing this situation to arise and (2) allowing it to continue for so long.

    They have had ample oppportunity to shut down NZ On Air but they haven’t. They could even monitor that organisation’s grants for political neutrality but they don’t.

    Go on being fearful and go on voting for lame arsed National. That will fix things.

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  121. jcuk (686 comments) says:

    hj (6,495 comments) says:

    August 10th, 2014 at 10:02 am
    Chinese Eugenics

    Considering the way the well off inteligent have fewer children than the less affluent in NZ society there is something to be said for the Chinese approach … we and the world do not need cannon fodder in the 21st century … at least I hope so with nuclear weapons around.

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  122. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Interesting story on the radio this morning about the effects of US nuke testing in Utah:
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/20145118

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  123. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    “War Crimes in Gaza? By any historical standard, Israel’s air attacks were a model of restraint.”

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/war-crimes-gaza_802178.html

    wow, yet more silly comparisons with WWII.

    Then there is this

    “This brings us back to Hamas. Its illegal use of Israeli uniforms in combat is but one of many practices that reveal the group to be not a government or a governing party, but a terrorist organization.”

    didn’t Kiwi VC winner Clive Hulme do something similar?

    but this takes the cake

    “It is a bitter irony that Israel’s restraint has not earned it a respite from savage criticism even as it has saved the lives of countless Palestinian civilians while also costing the lives of many dozens of its own soldiers.”

    This is the language of the psychopath. The victims should be grateful.

    “All this is overlooked by the wolf pack that constitutes Israel’s critics.”

    oh dear, the author could at least try to maintain the pretence of scholarship. In summary, junk, from a second rate scholar.

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  124. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Looks like there is a 13 year old out South who won’t be doing burglaries for a while lol

    Pete may have gone a touch far..

    I love the family quote “he’s worried about his career, he should have though about that before he did what he did”

    I’d like to apply that logic to the 13 year old “he’s worried that he’s in agony, he should have thought about that…”

    I read the story on the herald so who knows what the little shithead did in the house. Kids usually trash houses rather than just steal a truckload of stuff.

    As for being 13… For all we know he’s 6 foot with a moustache.

    I say a warning for Pete and 6 months for the punk!

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  125. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    The global event to which the whole world is invited
    http://magnacarta800th.com

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  126. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “This is the language of the psychopath. The victims should be grateful.”

    They are not victims of Israel but victims of HAMAS.

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  127. Harriet (4,970 comments) says:

    Key announced he would shut down the ministry of wimmin’s affairs. That was just to shut them up while National is in office.

    That public warning that Key gave them has simply become a cosy relationship. The ministry is just biding it’s time till Labour is back in office. A waste of taxpayers money for the last 6yrs.

    If the wimmin’s department is so representitive of kiwi wimmin – then the department’s birth rate, child rate, marriage rate, hetro rate, ethnic rate ect would be representitive of wimmin in the wider public. It’s not.

    The department is full of childless, unmarried, old, leso, white/maori feminists. Non are politicly neutral and all favour the left.

    National is fucken lazy.

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  128. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘it has saved the lives of countless Palestinian civilians’
    That’s pretty Orwellian.

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  129. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    Harriet,

    Very deep, profound and thoughtful.

    Sigh…..!

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  130. Pete George (23,561 comments) says:

    He said police told him Saili may not face charges.

    “We heard he was worried about the effect it would have on his rugby career. He should have thought of that before.”

    Under the Crimes Act, a person finding a burglar on their property may make an arrest until police arrive.

    Reasonable force is permitted in self-defence, and people are justified in using “such force as is necessary” to prevent the forcible breaking and entering of their home.

    The teen claims the much larger rugby player punched him in the head, stomped on his head after he fell to the ground, then threw him off the deck.

    Saili allegedly paused the attack to call police, then it is claimed he continued to hit him with a vacuum cleaner pipe until he lost consciousness.

    Hopefully police will make a just decision on whether the degree of violence was justified in the circumstances.

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  131. Yoza (1,872 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,971 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 11:07 am

    [Dean Papa]“This is the language of the psychopath. The victims should be grateful.”

    They are not victims of Israel but victims of HAMAS.

    In much the same way the residents of the Warsaw ghetto were victims of the resistance fighters there, …not the Nazis occupying the city.

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  132. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    The Israelis had the technology to achieve results with a lot less loss of life makes one wonder why they did not use it.

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  133. Southern Raider (1,829 comments) says:

    The rise of anti-semitism is getting scary. Belgian doctor refuses to treat a patient because she was Jewish, rabbi shot in Miami, school children in Sydney terrorised on a bus.

    This is not limited to the rest of the world. There is video of the Queen street protests with calls to kill the Jews.

    Then last night a friend was traveling home from Disney on Ice with his daughter at Britomart station when a group of middle eastern youths started saying Al-Yahud Khazeer to him which means in Arabic “you Jewish pig”

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  134. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “In much the same way the residents of the Warsaw ghetto were victims of the resistance fighters there, …not the Nazis occupying the city.”

    Not at all. For a start Gaza is not a ghetto (or a concentration camp as you laughably tried to claim).

    And HAMAS is not a resistance group, but one dedicated to the annihilation of Israel. The Jewish resistance fighters were not trying to annihilate Poland.

    Your far left lunacy is showing.

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  135. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    NATIONAL PUT THE MING IN FARMING! LOL

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  136. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Pg – stomped on his head? He’d probably be dead. No doubt the herald took every word from the crim as gospel

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  137. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “The Israelis had the technology to achieve results with a lot less loss of life makes one wonder why they did not use it.”

    Such as? And unless your a military expert, how do you know?

    That’s a bit like people saying that when a cop shoots and kills someone they should have wounded him in the leg. But anyone proficient in the use of firearms knows that is far more difficult in reality.

    Armchair criticism is easy. Fighting terrorists who hide behind civilians is not.

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  138. thedavincimode (6,759 comments) says:

    He’s done it again and … oh, the ironing …

    It seems that Viscount cunners of “The Leaves”, Marine Parade, Herne Bay, staunch advocate for the working man and picket line tough guy at the wharves, takes his kayak to the bottom of the garden of his $3m do up and paddles out onto the sparkling Waitemata to go fishing. I’m sure Mangere man can relate to that!

    How far does that greasy little fella in the blue suit have to travel to go fishing?

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  139. kowtow (8,470 comments) says:

    “Hopefully police will make a just decision on whether the degree of violence was justified in the circumstances.”

    What degee of violence? You’re going on the word of a thief who has entered someone else’s property that there was “violence”.

    The violence is committed by the thief upon the proerty of the house holder.
    Once upon a time it would have been no issue what injuries the c#nt had (short of death)The cops would have laughed at any suggestion of counter charges.

    This is a good example of EAD’s “the offender more rights than the victim”.

    And no jury would ever convict the house holder for meting out a wee bit of “justice”.

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  140. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    ‘Armchair criticism is easy. Fighting terrorists who hide behind civilians is not’
    Israel seems to find it easy enough…

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  141. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    ShawnLH says

    “They are not victims of Israel but victims of HAMAS.”

    In Papa’s world the crypto-fascist members of Hamas using women and children as human shields and trying to blow up Jews are the good guys.

    You know, the ones that:

    Call for the destruction of Israel.
    Strap explosives on animals trying to blow up roadblocks.
    Store and fire rockets from and near hospitals, mosques, churches, cemeteries and schools.
    Strap explosives on mentally handicapped trying to blow up soldiers.
    Use hospitals as command bunkers.
    Broadcast children’s’ television programs demonising Jews.
    Dress up their children as suicide bombers in parades.

    Those Hamas ‘fighters’ who deliberately target civilians are just the same as NZ VC winners.

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  142. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    Armchair advocation is easy also. Israel an article of faith Shawn?

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  143. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “War Crimes in Gaza? By any historical standard, Israel’s air attacks were a model of restraint.”

    You’re such an arse.

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  144. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Israel an article of faith Shawn?”

    A matter of justice.

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  145. SGA (1,028 comments) says:

    ShawnLH at 10:25 am

    If I pay taxes I should have a say in how those taxes are spent.

    Oddly though, not if you are a permanent resident in the country of “No taxation without representation” – NZ is quite generous in this regard.

    Permanent Residents generally do not have the right to vote, the right to be elected in federal and state elections, the ability to bring family members to the United States (permanent residents are allowed to sponsor certain family members, but this is often not practical due to long approval delays), or eligibility for federal government jobs. Male permanent residents between the ages of 18 and 25 are subject to registering in the Selective Service System. Permanent residents who reside in the United States must pay taxes on their worldwide income, like U.S. citizens.

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  146. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    Yoga, another one trying to be deep and thoughtful .Some 500,000 jews forced to live in a 3 square km are on starvation rations .Those survived starvation and epidemics deported to Treblinka death camp.A small number of survivors resisted the Nazi atrocity and we’re made to believe that Gaza is the same.

    Sheeesh.!

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  147. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    Gaza has a population density four times greater than Auckland NZ. Israel has got a right to defence. Gaza has a right not to be bullied. The Israel propaganda has backfired.

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  148. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “You’re such an arse.”

    Couldn’t think of an actual argument jackinabox? Don’t worry, your other braincell might fire up at some stage of your life. :)

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  149. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Gaza has a population density four times greater than Auckland NZ. Israel has got a right to defence. Gaza has a right not to be bullied.”

    It’s not being bullied. The bullies would be the HAMAS terrorists firing Iranian funded rockets at Israel, even AFTER they agree to ceasefires.

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  150. Yoza (1,872 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,972 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 11:17 am

    [Yoza]“In much the same way the residents of the Warsaw ghetto were victims of the resistance fighters there, …not the Nazis occupying the city.”

    Not at all. For a start Gaza is not a ghetto (or a concentration camp as you laughably tried to claim).

    And HAMAS is not a resistance group, but one dedicated to the annihilation of Israel. The Jewish resistance fighters were not trying to annihilate Poland.

    The Palestinians are trapped in Gaza, the Israelis walled them in and monitor them from watch towers. Palestinians are not allowed within 3km of the wall which effectively prohibits them from 44% of the Gaza strip. If this is not a ghetto or a concentration camp then what is it?

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  151. Pete George (23,561 comments) says:

    The violence is committed by the thief upon the proerty of the house holder.
    Once upon a time it would have been no issue what injuries the c#nt had (short of death)The cops would have laughed at any suggestion of counter charges.

    This is a good example of EAD’s “the offender more rights than the victim”.

    And no jury would ever convict the house holder for meting out a wee bit of “justice”.

    kowtow – I don’t think you know the degree of violence used any more than I do. I’m not assuming either way, hence the hope the police will use good judgement.

    The alleged use of a weapon is a concern in the circumstances described but not proven.

    We have a right to defend ourselves and our property but no legal right to mete out “a wee bit of “justice”’, which is very dangerous territory.

    You obviously choose to side completely with the perpetrator of (alleged) violence. I prefer to keep an open mind subject to the facts of the case.

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  152. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Some 500,000 jews forced to live in a 3 square km are on starvation rations .Those survived starvation and epidemics deported to Treblinka death camp.A small number of survivors resisted the Nazi atrocity and we’re made to believe that Gaza is the same.”

    Yowza’s just the usual far left apologist for the celebrity terrorist/tyrant of the week. Once it was Stalin and Pol Pot, now it’s HAMAS. There is no real thought in his posts, just mindless recitations of politically correct propaganda.

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  153. Southern Raider (1,829 comments) says:

    Yoza there is no comparison

    – the Palestinians weren’t herded into Gaza
    – Gaza has hotels, nightclubs, mosques and hospitals
    – UN has operations based there
    – billions of foreign aid is given
    – no one is starving and diseased

    Keep lapping up the left wing bias

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  154. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Why do you guys bother debating Israel with thee Jew haters?

    You all know that is gaza/Hamas was Jewish an Israel wasn’t then the same lefties would be here praising Israel.

    They are strange little people.

    I have no idea why any kiwis would have an issue with Jewish peeps.. But I don’t understand loser/victim mentality either.

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  155. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    The military so control Israel it is doubtful one would become a professor without military permission.
    Israeli Professor: Rape Hamas Militants’ Mothers and Sisters to Deter Terrorist Attacks
    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/israeli-professor-rape-hamas-militants-mothers-sisters-deter-161409803.html#aNzW0on

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  156. Yoza (1,872 comments) says:

    Other_Andy (2,384 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 11:24 am

    In Papa’s world the crypto-fascist members of Hamas using women and children as human shields …

    Israel has comprehensively demonstrated it will not hesitate to shoot through or blow up women and children, they cannot be described as ‘shields’ if they fail to represent any kind of defensive utility.

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  157. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Far left apologists for Pol Pot? Name some. The only people who might be called apologists for Pol Pot that I’m aware of would be those governments that voted to keep Pol Pot represented at the UN and supplied him with arms.

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  158. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “The Palestinians are trapped in Gaza,”

    Yes. Buy HAMAS. If HAMAS and all “palestinians” accepted the right of Israel to exist, there would be no problem.

    Shame they cannot let go of their hatred for Jews.

    The Forgotten Child Victims of Hamas and ISIS:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/dgreenfield/the-forgotten-child-victims-of-hamas-and-isis/

    The Twisted Path of Judeophobia:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/ari-lieberman/the-twisted-path-of-judeophobia/

    Only Hamas’ Defeat Will Bring Peace:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/joseph-puder/only-hamas-defeat-will-bring-peace/

    The Media’s Silence to Hamas’ Genocidal Venom:

    http://www.frontpagemag.com/2014/robert-spencer/the-medias-silence-to-hamas-genocidal-venom/

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  159. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Israel has comprehensively demonstrated it will not hesitate to shoot through or blow up women and children, ”

    And yet silence from you over the far, far greater number of children killed by ISIS.

    Gee, I wonder why?

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  160. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    Who started HAMAS?

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  161. Yoza (1,872 comments) says:

    stephieboy (2,322 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 11:28 am

    Yoga, another one trying to be deep and thoughtful .Some 500,000 jews forced to live in a 3 square km are on starvation rations .Those survived starvation and epidemics deported to Treblinka death camp.A small number of survivors resisted the Nazi atrocity and we’re made to believe that Gaza is the same.

    Sheeesh.!

    So in what sort of volume do you think the slaughter of Palestinians would constitute a crime against humanity?

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  162. jackinabox (776 comments) says:

    “- no one is starving and diseased”

    In fact they are amongst the fattest people in the world.

    Oh wait, that’s from having to eat over-processed crap “food”.

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  163. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    ” the Palestinians weren’t herded into Gaza
    – Gaza has hotels, nightclubs, mosques and hospitals
    – UN has operations based there
    – billions of foreign aid is given
    – no one is starving and diseased”

    True, but facts don’t matter to Yowza, anymore than the deaths of children do. If they did, he would be on here everyday crying out over the actions of ISIS. It’s all just far left bullshit pretending to be a concern for justice and human life.

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  164. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Iran’s fingerprints all over Hamas-Israel conflict.”

    “While media have widely reported on the ongoing war between Israel and Hamas, few have picked up on the significant Iranian connection to the conflict. Indeed, one cannot comprehend the events of recent weeks without an adequate understanding of Iran’s role in Gaza.

    This includes, for example, the Iranian-built Fajr 5 and the made-in-Gaza M-75, both of which have a range of 75 kilometres. In 2012, Iran openly admitted to having given Hamas the technology to manufacture the M-75. These weapons have been a strategic game-changer for Hamas, allowing it to extend its range of attack to Israel’s two largest cities: Jerusalem and Tel Aviv. The longer-range M-302, which enabled Hamas to hit cities in northern Israel, was reportedly imported from Syria via Iran.

    None of this would be possible without extensive funding from Iran. At one point, the government of Egypt revealed that Iran was funnelling upwards of $300 million annually to Hamas.

    Additional numbers are equally staggering. Prior to Israel’s current operation, terror groups in Gaza possessed an estimated 10,000 missiles. Hamas operatives, many of whom were trained in Iran, now also number at least 10,000. Palestinian Islamic Jihad, which is even closer to Iran than is Hamas, boasts several thousand fighters in Gaza. Analysts have noted that the two factions have been competing to see which one can fire missiles deeper into Israel.”

    http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/07/19/irans_fingerprints_all_over_hamasisrael_conflict.html

    Yowza and Gulag are Iran’s useful idiots.

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  165. Yoza (1,872 comments) says:

    ShawnLH (3,979 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 11:43 am

    [Yoza]“Israel has comprehensively demonstrated it will not hesitate to shoot through or blow up women and children, ”

    And yet silence from you over the far, far greater number of children killed by ISIS.

    Gee, I wonder why?

    ISIS are a bunch of vicious killers operating in a country utterly destroyed by decades of Western interference which culminated in a vicious invasion. ISIS crimes are enthusiastically celebrated in the corporate media serving a useful propaganda function as a means of undermining the humanity of Middle Eastern Muslims generally.

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  166. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    Israel to the Christian Right is an article of faith and can do no wrong. Israel > Armageddon > The Second Coming. Pity Israel is stuck in the Old Testament.

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  167. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    Shawn, you need to stop reading those nutjob websites. They are fraudulent and dishonest. Your imaginary friend in the sky would not approve. But deep down, in the deepest recesses of his soul, Shawn doesn’t really believe in sky fairies. Because if he really truly did, then he would know, that god would know, that he, Shawn, is a fraud.

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  168. SGA (1,028 comments) says:

    Gulag1917 at 11:53 am

    Israel to the Christian Right is an article of faith and can do no wrong. Goody goodies who should be canonised by the Pope.

    Not sure I’d go that far, but some might defend it because it is a significant “cog” for the end of days.

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  169. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    One disagrees with Israel and then one becomes a useful idiot of Iran. WOW what incredible thinking.

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  170. Fletch (6,387 comments) says:

    Imagine there’s no countries
    It isn’t hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion too
    Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace…

    I think the song is more like Communism than anything else.
    To (mis)quote Don McLean slightly, “and while Lennon read a book on Marx”.

    As one author put it –

    The True Believer’s Blueprint for Utopia was perfectly articulated in one of the most popular and beloved anthems of the Modern Liberal era – John Lennon’s “Imagine.” In “Imagine,” Lennon promises the world paradise, but only once people are left with nothing to believe in or care about.

    Thus, according to Lennon’s plan, mankind can return to Eden, but only after all consideration of the better forms of governance is ended. That’s what having “no countries ” would accomplish.

    Notice that Lennon does not discriminate between right and wrong, better and worse or good and evil . It’s not what countries do that matters; it’s countries themselves, so that there is no difference to Lennon between America – which has provided the world with the food, medicines and technological advances that has virtually ended all disease, hunger, poverty and pain – and Nazi Germany which gave the world nothing but misery and death.

    And, according to Lennon, Paradise would be regained , but only if all discussion of the better moral codes ceased. That’s what having “no religion” would do. Again, note that there is no moral or intellectual distinction drawn between a religion that teaches “Love thy neighbor” and has brought us Western Civilization and one that preaches “Kill all infidels” and has brought us every war on the planet today.

    Essential to the True Believer’s Blueprint for Utopia – and a central part of every Leftist ideology from before Lenin to after Lennon – is having “no possessions.” This is because possessions serve as tangible evidence of having engaged in the better (more productive) behaviors. Since the Modern Liberal’s paradise requires denying the existence of the better, all behaviors – hard work and sloth, ingenuity and chicanery, sobriety and drug addiction – must be equally and indiscriminately rewarded.

    To usher in Utopia, the True Believer knows that he must squelch all inquiry into the past, for history provides ample evidence of the existence of the better. He must also sever all ties to the future, for the Modern Liberal knows that caring for the well-being of one’s children leads to seeking out and championing the better, if not for oneself than for one’s progeny. This is why the Modern Liberal knows, and Lennon declares, that heaven on Earth requires “all the people living for today.”

    In the Modern Liberal Paradise that Lennon describes to perfection, there is no reason to try to better oneself because there is no such thing as the better. You can, in fact, spend your life just “being yourself” and doing whatever “feels good” at any given moment, for no matter what you do, you will be equally rewarded. It’s all very much like the Garden of Eden. It’s exactly like the kindergarten classroom.

    Lennon sums up the True Believer’s Blueprint for Utopia perfectly in one of the final lines from the song when he promises a return to Paradise, but only once anything and everything that mankind values has been so devalued that there’s “nothing to kill or die for.”

    Sayet, Evan (2012-12-18). KinderGarden Of Eden (Kindle Locations 911-934). . Kindle Edition.

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  171. minus (194 comments) says:

    In an electoral debate on Q + A this morning, Green Party candidate Julie Anne Genter says National telling voters to vote for Epsom’s Act candidate is “undemocractic”.

    “The most democratic thing would be for people to be able to vote for the candidate they believe best represents them,” she says.

    Nothing will stop people from voting exactly as they wish, providing information is freely given.

    What is “undemocratic” is Labour saying they support their candidate in TTT but don’t, because they want Internet to coat-tail in on MANA.

    The difference is that any National arrangement for Epsom is open, “out-there”, and clearly known,
    while Labour’s TTT actions though are hidden, and deceitful.

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  172. Peter (1,712 comments) says:

    Both sides believe their God is the bestest. That is the fundamental, underlying problem. Combine this with Hamas declaring Isreal has no right to exist, and you have the recipe for never-ending war.

    Hamas needs to disband
    Palestine needs to declare Isreal’s right to exist
    Isreal needs to back off and accept Palestine

    Both as bad as each other.

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  173. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    “I think the song is more like Communism than anything else.”

    I think this song has been way over-analysed !!

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  174. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28715052

    Tens of thousands of people have taken part in a rally for Gaza in London.

    The demonstration came amid renewed violence between Israel and Palestinian militants after a three-day ceasefire ended on Friday.

    An emergency appeal in the UK for people affected by the conflict in Gaza has raised £4.5m in less than 24 hours, the Disasters Emergency Committee said.

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  175. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Both sides believe their God is the bestest. That is the fundamental, underlying problem.

    One side has the state for their “God”, the other has the deity of Abraham.

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  176. Redbaiter (8,823 comments) says:

    “Because if he really truly did, then he would know, that god would know, that he, Shawn, is a fraud.”

    He may be and he may not be, but one thing for sure, he’s stupid enough to allow fuckwits like you & UT to constantly use him as a stalking horse for far left bullshit.

    Dumb as they come and so desperate for validation he’ll engage with anyone.

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  177. kowtow (8,470 comments) says:

    Poor old Gaza,gets millions from the Muslims ,far left and anti semites of britain.

    Meanwhile no one gives a shit about a true genocide.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2720876/Crucified-Caliphate-monsters-Iraq-descends-apocalypse-Islamic-State-fanatics-seize-towns-tell-terrified-Yazidi-Become-Muslims-noon-today-kill-you.html

    Come on proPally terror apologists and “modrate” Muslims,condemn this!

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  178. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    wow wee, having just read Andy Pandy’s delusional rant, I am struggling to see how it equates to anything I have written. But then that would be typical of the tactics of the delusional, paranoid, and hate fueled nutjobs. Put words in the mouth of those who have the temerity to express an alternative viewpoint, then feign anger and disgust! Dishonest, and pathetic! What are ya ANDY PANDY? That’s right DISHONEST and PATHETIC !!

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  179. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    So you support Obama’s efforts to help the Yazidi, kowtow?

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  180. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    Peace in the Middle East requires compromise.

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  181. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Dumb as they come and so desperate for validation he’ll engage with anyone.”

    Says the guy who just called David Garrett a progressive! :)

    I engage to debate. This is a debating forum, just in case your confused about that.

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  182. G152 (341 comments) says:

    JKudith posted>
    And so what is your excuse for the hoardings from other parties that have been vandalised? Where I live there is not one political hoarding standing or unvandalised after friday night. So, please do tell me, how do you explain that?
    ======================
    How many of those ‘other party’ hoardings have been defaced with anti Jewish slogans, swastikas and such?
    Take your time finding an excuse
    And I’d like to see you explaining the difference between your claimed ‘Friday night vandalism’ and the racist defacing of National hoardings but we both know you’re not going to go there

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  183. Fletch (6,387 comments) says:

    mm, too little, too late.

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  184. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    @ Dean Papa

    “Shawn, you need to stop reading those nutjob websites.”

    They tell the truth in what is otherwise a sea of anti-Israel bias.

    “They are fraudulent and dishonest.”

    No, that would be you and the other apologists for terrorism.

    “Your imaginary friend in the sky would not approve.”

    He does in fact.

    “But deep down, in the deepest recesses of his soul, Shawn doesn’t really believe in sky fairies.”

    Your right. I believe in God, not sky fairies.

    Sorry that I had to interrupt todays Nuremberg rally with a contrary view. You seem to think only anti-Israel nutjobs should speak.

    To which I reply, kiss my ass! :)

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  185. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Chimp 1. Humans 0. :)

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  186. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    Gulag, Middle East requires compromise .? Certainly but you’d have to say ISIS sure doesn’t want compromise and Frankly am not so sure about Hamas.?

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  187. Redbaiter (8,823 comments) says:

    “I engage to debate.”

    ..and for that the multitude of LW stooges who have invaded Kiwiblog lately are eternally grateful.

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  188. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    Give up the play acting Shawn, God can see right through you. He knows you are a fraud.

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  189. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    He may be and he may not be, but one thing for sure, he’s stupid enough to allow fuckwits like you & UT to constantly use him as a stalking horse for far left bullshit.

    Poor old baiter, still blaming the left. The left/right dichotomy completely misses the point about what causes the ills of society.

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  190. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Dean, if you don’t have a rational or fact based comeback to the arguments and articles I post, there is no shame in admitting defeat and repenting of your delusions.

    I won’t think any less of you. Promise! :)

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  191. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “and for that the multitude of LW stooges who have invaded Kiwiblog lately are eternally grateful.”

    Oh Red, I think your rhetoric does more to drive people to the Left than anything I could say in a lifetime! :)

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  192. OneTrack (3,093 comments) says:

    minus – “The difference is that any National arrangement for Epsom is open, “out-there”, and clearly known,”

    And National are standing a candidate in the seat if Epsom voters don’t agree with Act.

    Compared to TTT, where a Mana voter, who doesn’t agree with the InternetHitlerYouth party, has nowhere to go.

    Has a news organisation actually asked the Electoral Commission how this rort could even be real. You vote for one party, who is associated to another party, whose name isn’t even going to be on the TTT vothing form, and, somehow in MMP crazy land, the associated party gains seats? And then, to top it off, five minutes after the election finishes, the two parties dissolve the relationship, but they both keep the seats?

    The guys who invented MMP were taking the piss, weren’t they.

    FPP come back. All is forgiven.

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  193. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    Get off the grass Shawn. You really think I should waste my time reading those nutjob articles you post? They’re basically all just the same article, rewritten. Not unlike your posts, Shawn. Now if you had God’s enlightenment, Shawn, then you would surely have the sense to realise that those articles are written by liars and frauds, sociopaths and crooks. But I fear you are possessed by Satan, Shawn ,you are in fact the beast in clever disguise, masquerading as an earnest God-botherer!!

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  194. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    But you’re welcome to rehash the arguments of those articles in your own words, Shawn. I might be bothered to read that and reply. #thinkingforyourself

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  195. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Dean Papa says:

    “That’s right DISHONEST and PATHETIC !!”

    Caps lock stuck?
    Or do you think SHOUTING proves YOU RIGHT?

    Talking about dishonest.
    Still waiting where you give me a link to show me that the evil Jews murdered 200 Palestinian babies as you claimed last night.

    And Kiwi VC winner Clive Hulme wasn’t a fascist like your Hamas friends but fought against them.

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  196. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I think the point about Clive Hulme was that arguably he was a war criminal (like Hamas and the Israelis).

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  197. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    My “Hamas friends”?? Deja-vu, Andy Pandy. Is that really the best you can do? Surely not? There seems to be a lack of basic comprehension skills amongst the screaming nutjobs. Funny that. To clarify, I was casting no aspersions on Clive Hulme, but merely pointing it out as an interesting tid-bit, in light of the article linked to by my dear friend Shawn. While you are most welcome to join in the conversation, Andy Pandy, it might be helpful if you paid a little closer attention to what is being said, before jumping in.

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  198. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    @ Dean

    “You really think I should waste my time reading those nutjob articles you post?”

    No, I have no doubt that your close minded prejudice prevents you from looking at a contrary point of view.

    “They’re basically all just the same article, rewritten.”

    How would you know of you didn’t read them? :)

    ” Now if you had God’s enlightenment, Shawn, then you would surely have the sense to realise that those articles are written by liars and frauds, sociopaths and crooks.”

    I have sense enough to realize that anti-Israel nutters like you are liars, frauds, sociopaths and crooks.

    “Now if you had God’s enlightenment”

    And yet, you don’t believe in God, or Satan. So you seem very confused.

    But I do find your flailing about and desperate attacks on me personally very fascinating.

    It says much about the fact that you have no comeback to the articles, no real defense of your anti-Israel position, and when faced with arguments you cannot respond to resort to amusingly hyperbolic ad hominem.

    That does not do your cause any good. Kinda makes you look desperate and dumbfounded.

    So thanks, and I would encourage you to keep using this rhetorical strategy. Making yourself look like a desperate and dumbfounded fruitloop helps the pro-Israel position a great deal. :)

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  199. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    @ Other_Andy

    “Caps lock stuck?
    Or do you think SHOUTING proves YOU RIGHT?”

    Let him shout. It makes him look like an escapee from an asylum. :)

    “Still waiting where you give me a link to show me that the evil Jews murdered 200 Palestinian babies as you claimed last night.”

    I wouldn’t hold my breath. Dean is big on mindless propaganda and very short on facts. Or smarts for that matter. :)

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  200. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Dean Papa says at 1:39 pm

    So in other words, still no link to your slanderous accusation that the evil Jews murdered 200 Palestinian babies?
    Or are you just another lying Hamas propaganda tool?

    As for ‘screaming nutjobs’, as you call them, can I remind you of your first post to me…?

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/08/general_debate_9_august_2014.html#comment-1376671

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  201. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Wow. Read that post from Dean to you Andy. I wonder if Dean is or needs to be on some kind of medication? He seems, shall we say, a little unhinged. :)

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  202. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    Steady now Shawn, careful with that witty and sharp repartee of yours, .. you might slice and dice someone!!

    Andy Pandy, the figures on Palestinian casualties are available from reputable sources. Look them up yourself, and yes, I might have been a little creative with my age range criteria.

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  203. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “the figures on Palestinian casualties are available from reputable sources.”

    So post them so we can decide for ourselves.

    “and yes, I might have been a little creative with my age range criteria.”

    In other words you lied. Good to know. :)

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  204. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Dean Papa says at 2:04 pm

    ….and yes, I might have been a little creative with my age range criteria…..

    Now that wasn’t too hard was it?
    You almost apologised.

    Now next time when you accuse somebody of something, make sure you can back up your accusations otherwise it is just slanderous rubbish.

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  205. wf (441 comments) says:

    Southern Raider (1,626 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 11:17 am

    . . . . Then last night a friend was traveling home from Disney on Ice with his daughter at Britomart station when a group of middle eastern youths started saying Al-Yahud Khazeer to him which means in Arabic “you Jewish pig”

    ———

    This demonstrates what happens to the kids of ‘grateful’ immigrants/refugees when they become politically activated.

    A perfect example as to why they should be shipped back to the land of their fathers. No excuses. No second chances. Off they go.

    We have enough home-bred problems of our own.

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  206. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Whose figures would you like, Shawn? Gaza Health Ministry, UN, or IDF?

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  207. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Mike,

    “Whose figures would you like, Shawn?”

    Dean’s. But not really necessary now as he just admitted to making things up.

    So Dean, if your were being ” a little creative” with the truth, doesn’t that make YOU the liar and fraud? :)

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  208. Manolo (13,767 comments) says:

    Threatening savages: http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8888650/isis-supporters-threaten-us-with-september-11-style-attacks

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  209. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Sorry Shawn, I thought you might be interested in the actual figures. My mistake. They’re just numbers anyway.

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  210. stephieboy (3,063 comments) says:

    And the blame game continues .Let’s blame the Jews,the Israelis and of course the US for every conceivable event including M 17, the Ukraine ISIS, Gaza and well everything including it seems another crack at another 9/11.,

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  211. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    stephieboy – the lack of compromise by all factions guarantees perpetual war.

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  212. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Sorry Shawn, I thought you might be interested in the actual figures.”

    I would be Mike if they were available. But it is a war zone, with all the confusion and constantly changing “facts on the ground” that are common to war zones.

    So I suspect that nobody really knows at this point.

    What I do know is that vastly more horrific things are happening in Iraq with ISIS, yet that does not receive remotely the same level of attention and outrage from the media and some of the posters on KB, and that makes me suspicious.

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  213. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Well, actual figures are issued by at least three authorities. That gives an estimate of total deaths between 1,500 and 2,000 so far.
    Why are you ‘suspicious’ of less media coverage given to the situation in Iraq? There must be quite a bit of coverage BTW, even you seem aware of it.

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  214. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “There must be quite a bit of coverage BTW, even you seem aware of it.”

    I was aware of it prior to the small amount of MSM media attention because my wife and I subscribe to news services focused on the persecution of Christians, and we have Arab Christian friends in the region that we are in contact with.

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  215. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    But you find the amount of coverage ‘suspicious’. Why?

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  216. Gulag1917 (916 comments) says:

    List of massacres in Israel
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Israel
    Plus
    Lebanese Christian allies of Israel murdered up to 1,700 people in 1982 while Israeli troops watched.

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  217. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    My dear friend Shawn, it is in fact your good self who is being creative with the truth when you claim that I have admitted to being “a little creative” with the truth. That’s called irony (no arguments, please). Your imaginary friend in the sky would not be pleased with your attempted trickery. What I did admit to is that the age criteria which I have used to define babies could be open to debate. But I reckon our imaginary friend in the sky would agree with my more more broader definition. Because God is love, so why so angry, Shawn?

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  218. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “But you find the amount of coverage ‘suspicious’. Why?”

    Because I believe that there is a bias in the media against Israel, and so the conflict there gets more attention, and biased attention at that, than the crisis created by ISIS.

    I’m also suspicious about the level of outrage expressed by some KB posters concerning Israel while the same people are silent about ISIS. And I think this is because most, (this is not aimed at Gulag) of those people are motivated by old fashioned Jew hatred.

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  219. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    @ Dean,

    “My dear friend Shawn, it is in fact your good self who is being creative with the truth when you claim that I have admitted to being “a little creative” with the truth.”

    These are your words: “and yes, I might have been a little creative with my age range criteria”

    Now, where I come from, being a little creative with facts OR criteria is called lying.

    “so why so angry, Shawn?”

    I’m not angry at all, in fact I have generally been laughing out loud in response to your posts.

    Anyway, I’m out for a while. Later all.

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  220. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Shawn
    Could it possibly be that more is expected from Israel, as a functioning first world democracy with an ostensible regard for human rights, than is expected from ISIS, a militant bunch of fanatics accountable to no one?

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  221. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    You fool no one Shawn,

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2014/07/general_debate_29_july_2014.html#comment-1369412

    What a very angry and vulgar little man you are, Shawn. The fairy in the sky is not amused !!

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  222. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    Hate, what hate..
    /

    http://open.salon.com/blog/libbyliberalnyc/2014/08/09/the_fertilization_thru_harvest_of_israeli_racism

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  223. Longknives (4,744 comments) says:

    Dean Papa- You need to lay off the Cannabis mate! It is wrecking your mind…

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  224. muggins (3,722 comments) says:

    If a New Zealand citizen has left New Zealand and is living more or less permanently in another country they shouldn’t be allowed to vote in the New Zealand elections. But the problem is how does one define “more or less permanently”.

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  225. Longknives (4,744 comments) says:

    Hell I wouldn’t let anyone vote unless they are a taxpayer who is actively contributing to the New Zealand Economy (Retired taxpayers being the obvious exception)..
    The left would be fucked!

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  226. Dean Papa (784 comments) says:

    LK -here’s a great investment opportunity for you

    http://www.trademe.co.nz/music-instruments/music-memorabilia/other/auction-764022675.htm

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  227. muggins (3,722 comments) says:

    If Hammas stopped firing rockets into Israel then Israeli soldiers would not fire back and no-one on either side would be either killed or injured.

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  228. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    And how do you think Hamas might come to decide to do that, muggins?

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  229. Longknives (4,744 comments) says:

    Dean- Perhaps Lordy could bring peace to the Middle East? As she is already pontificating on New Zealand politics and is telling the kids who not to vote for…

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  230. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    “……..didn’t Kiwi VC winner Clive Hulme do something similar?”

    What a ridiculous statement. Dean Papa, you are an insulting arsehole.

    I knew Clive Hulme personally – spent many hours chatting to him back in the 60’s He was a close friend of my fathers, who also served in WW II.

    For your enlightenment, Clive Hulme was a “Diviner” – with a piece of bent wire, he could divine water, gold, deer (when hunting) – and men. That is how he killed so many (22 I think) German snipers on Crete.
    Here’s a couple of examples. He divined a hot-water underground stream for another friend of ours in Mt. Maunganui, for a thermal spa bath at my brother’s request. One Saturday morning my brother and I and a couple of other friends called in to see him at his Otamarakau home after hunting. He told my brother to go away or a couple of hundred yards in any direction and hide his gold wedding ring. Clive went into the house and closed the blinds. Bruce went out through the back gate of Clive’s place where ther were railway tracks – and a high fence, so even if Clive was watching, he would not have known which direction Bruce took.
    When Bruce returned, we shouted out to Clive – he came out of the house with his bit of wire and started following it. Now Bruce had hidden his wedding ring under the railway line, heading west out from Clive’s back gate. He went through the back gate, turned right, and went straight to the spot where Bruce had hidden his wedding ring. We were all totally flumoxed.
    Knew his son, Denny, also – also a real good guy.

    So whatever you were trying to say about Clive in relation to Hamas, you are totally full of shit, and you should be ashamed of yourself, to denigrate one of our war heroes in such a manner.

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  231. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I think he was just pointing out the Clive Hulme, when donning German uniform, opened himself to charges of war crimes should he have been captured. One man’s hero can be another man’s villain.
    And if you believed he could divine water, or whatever, it’s not surprising you lap up the Christian myths.

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  232. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    MM.

    You are also full of shit. I witnessed this, and so have many others. You are letting your very limited intellect show.

    And besides, it has nothing to do with Christianity, God or otherwise – it is a sense skill.

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  233. muggins (3,722 comments) says:

    milkenmild
    All I saying is that if Hamas [spelt correctly this time round] were to stop firing rockets into Israel then the Israeli soldiers would not return fire and then no-one would be injured or killed.
    Hamas fire a rocket, Israel fires back. Hamas don’t fire a rocket, so no need for any return fire. Simple as.

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  234. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Don, you’d be a willing sucker for any fortune teller.

    Yes, muggins, how do you think Hamas might decide to give up the rocket fire?

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  235. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    MM.

    Another brainless comment. But then, you’re a public servant – what else should we expect?

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  236. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Don, dowsing has been repeatedly shown to be a fraud. It’s an easy trick to perpetrate, especially among fools willing to suspend their disbelief.

    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dowsing

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  237. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    Okay MM.

    So you explain to me how this man, having zero knowledge of how far away, which direction, and being totally obscured from view when it was hidden, walked a couple of hundred yards, and found this hidden object – a very small wedding ring, hidden under a railway line and obscured further, by pebbles a dirt found on railway tracks – completely unaided?
    Back in 1965 he never owned a drone, y’know.

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  238. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    So you explain to me how this man, having zero knowledge of how far away, which direction, and being totally obscured from view when it was hidden, walked a couple of hundred yards, and found this hidden object – a very small wedding ring, hidden under a railway line and obscured further, by pebbles a dirt found on railway tracks – completely unaided?

    Beelzebub?.

    For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

    Matthew 24:24

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  239. Longknives (4,744 comments) says:

    “has been repeatedly shown to be a fraud. It’s an easy trick to perpetrate”

    Don the Kiwi- If Divining happened to be a Maori Spiritual concept Mikey would be aghast at your story and hanging off every word…

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  240. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    cha’s answer, Don, the devil made him do it.

    Longknives – I don’t subscribe to any magical thinking.

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  241. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    MM.

    There are many things in this world that defy a rational explanation. I would not have believed it if I did not see it. None of us went with him – we all stayed in his back yard, and he shouted to us when he found it.

    But I suppose there are skeptics of anything than cannot be simply explained – especially in our dumbed-down world.

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  242. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    @MM,
    Not dowsing in general. Maybe some people who say they are dowsers are frauds.

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  243. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    All dowsers are frauds. It’s fraud by definition.

    Don, he either peeked out the window or colluded with the friend who placed the ring. You should watch some Derren Brown vids on YouTube.

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  244. Griff (7,700 comments) says:

    Don believes in all sorts of bronze age superstitious nonsense miky .
    In for a penny in for a pound
    An Anatomy of the Motivated Rejection of Science
    http://websites.psychology.uwa.edu.au/labs/cogscience/documents/LskyetalPsychScienceinPressClimateConspiracy.pdf
    :lol: Good story
    http://journal.frontiersin.org/Journal/10.3389/fpsyg.2013.00073/full
    but but but …..

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  245. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    All dowsers are frauds. It’s fraud by definition.

    Stop being a dick, MM.

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  246. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I wish you’d come around and find the gold ring I lost in my garden…

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  247. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    And when you’ve found Mikes ring can you call in and have a hunt for the elusive hot water bottle bung that’s been missing since last winter.

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  248. Longknives (4,744 comments) says:

    “Longknives – I don’t subscribe to any magical thinking.”

    So you don’t participate in all those ‘Powhiris’ at work then? Someone said you work for a Govt Department-I used to and we had a bloody Powhiri a week!

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  249. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I’ve been to church services as well. I wouldn’t confuse politeness with belief.

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  250. Don the Kiwi (1,754 comments) says:

    MM. & cha, if you wish.

    I am still waiting for a sensible response to my question posed to you at 4.08 pm.

    I’m not seeking ridicule, oe being told I’m easily duped, or I’m a religious nutter.
    I want to know what your explanation would be if you were in my company that day.

    I’d be happy with, ” I don’t know” or “I can’t think of a rational explanation”.

    But to simply resort to trying to ridicule me, or what I have said, says more about you than me; I just wnt to know how you would explain the event.

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  251. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Oh dear

    Mr Cunliffe was given a rapturous welcome at the launch and his speech focused on Labour’s target areas for the election campaign – such as jobs, education and affordable homes.

    He walked onto the stage while Don McGlashan and his band hammered out Split Enz song Time for a Change.

    Now that’s a headline: Cunliffe dances to the sound of a leadership change!

    (Mr Cunliffe, lest you get any ideas, please don’t do anything rash before the election… Labour needs you!)

    Edit: Johnboy will love the photo of Cunliffe at the top of that linked article.

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  252. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Greens offer a youthful alternative

    Twenty-year-old Jack Tautokai McDonald has been selected as the Green Party’s candidate for Te Tai Hauauru.

    Mr McDonald, who is of Taranaki iwi, Te Whakatohea and Te Ati Awa descent, also contested the seat in 2011 for the Greens, after just turning 18.

    Greens co-leader Metiria Turei called the candidate “a young man wise beyond his years”.

    “He is an excellent communicator and passionate about whanau and whenua.

    Jack has a real future in politics, locally and nationally. I am very proud and look forward to supporting him and his campaign,” she said.

    Good grief. When I was 20, I was studying. My objective was to get a meaningful job so that I could support myself and my family. At 20, Jack seems to be campaigning. His objective seems to be to get a meaningless job (in politics) so that he can be supported by taxpayers.

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  253. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    It can’t be coincidence…..the Leader of Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition must be moonlighting as an author to pay the rates on his “do-upper”. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/glz4pyn7huwddcc/Turtle.jpg

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  254. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Don
    I answered at 4.16pm. Look for the most likely explanation.

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  255. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Nasska: I can see that making it on to the children’s best-seller list!

    Edit: Hi D4J!

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  256. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    “I’ve been to church services as well. I wouldn’t confuse politeness with belief.”

    That only started when Marist Brothers took over Hutt Old Boys! :)

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  257. edward_l (17 comments) says:

    muggins at 3:16 pm
    May be we would be better off only allowing citizens to vote and only those in New Zealand during the voting period.
    And, we also need electronic voting booths and ‘internet’ voting. Cut the whole thing down to a few hours. Results by tea time!!!

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  258. cha (4,017 comments) says:

    Someone said church…

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  259. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Labour – “Ready to Win” (Yeah right!)

    So David Cunliffe begins:

    Hello Labour
    Hello New Zealand

    And then he gets into his stand-up comedy routine:

    This election is going to be about a choice – probably one of the clearest that we have had as a country in a generation.

    And it’s not just about two leaders , or even a contest between two parties.

    Yes, David, it’s not just about two leaders – Labour has a current leader and at least one leader-in-waiting.

    I know it’s easy to be cynical about elections. About the sideshows, about the relentless negativity.

    Yes, David, speaking of sideshows and relentless negativity, what the hell were you thinking when you said (in the same speech): “You know what? The Government has made it very clear that one of the first things they want to do if they get back is take away your lunch break and your smoko!”?

    And he saves the best for last:

    If you want an end to politics as usual and to build a New Zealand that works for everyone.
    If you won’t settle for the past and you want to reach for the future.
    Then it’s time to vote for change.

    Yes, David, let’s vote for the same MPs who have been in politics since some of us were in nappies! What sort of change is that?

    Of course, for The Standard cheerleader squad, this is all great stuff!

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  260. dad4justice (8,222 comments) says:

    “Edit: Hi D4J!”

    The bb obsession is highly contagious, poor Nostradumus.

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  261. Longknives (4,744 comments) says:

    Nostradamus- I think spotty young Jack used to post here on Kiwiblog. Nasty little ‘know it all’ leftie he was…..

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  262. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    D4J:

    I know you have your obsession with pins and voodoo dolls – but there’s no need to STAB the left mouse button so violently when you give me a thumbs-down. You could pull a finger muscle!

    Longknives:

    Yes, I remember Jack when he first made an appearance on Kiwiblog, and from memory he was an instant hit!

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  263. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Full moon tonight, D4J. Do you feel energised?

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  264. dad4justice (8,222 comments) says:

    Nostradumus sorry to burst your sky high ego but I DO NOT give thumbs down or up. That’s reserved for cowardly nut bars that think it matters. I wouldn’t waste my time as I couldn’t give a flying f about what bloggers think of my opinions. Sorry to offend you but the thumbs are not from me you silly fool.

    mikeymould – crawl back into your rat nest you diseased vermin.

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  265. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    I’ll take that as a yes.

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  266. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

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  267. big bruv (13,888 comments) says:

    mikenmild

    We could be in for a fun filled evening. :)

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  268. publicwatchdog (2,593 comments) says:

    FYI – apologies for the length of this post, but think that those who support ‘freedom of expression’, ‘freedom of association’, freedom from unlawful discrimination on the grounds of political opinion, may well be interested in this development……
    _________________________________________________________

    Penny Bright – Independent candidate for the Helensville electorate will now be attending the Helensville candidates meeting to be held at the Kumeu Baptist Church Monday 11 August 2014

    REPLY RECEIVED 3.35pm SUNDAY 10 AUGUST 2014

    Holly Ryan via yahoo.com 3:35 PM (2 hours ago)

    to me

    Penny,

    As Kumeu Baptist Church prefers to avoid being embroiled in media or Court disputes, you may attend as a candidate tomorrow evening.

    As sole organizer, I personally would stand against your bullying tactics and stick to my original and, until now, unaltered plan for the event.

    You will need to seek me out when you arrive tomorrow evening. As all publicity material has been completed, nothing other than your attendance can be changed.

    Holly Ryan
    _________________________________________________________

    FYI – I sent this email first to Holly Ryan and to Samuel Schuurman, and rang both to try and ensure that they had received this email before sending it out widely to media and politicians at local and central government.

    From the beginning – I have tried to deal with my (unlawful) exclusion from this one and only Helensville candidates meeting in a proper way, and have the ‘paper trail’ to prove this – in the hopefully unlikely event that it ends up in the Auckland High Court tomorrow, in the form of an application for an injunction ……

    I look forward to my rights as an Independent candidate for Helensville being respected, and being able to address members of the voting public, on the same basis as candidates representing political parties, which thus respects the right of the voting public public to ‘cast an informed vote’.

    Please remember that I have stood as an Independent candidate at both local and national government levels on a number of occasions, and know how to conduct myself at public electoral meetings.

    Cheers!

    Penny Bright
    _________________________________________________________

    10 August 2014

    ‘Open Letter’ to the Organiser of the Helensville candidates meeting Holly Ryan and Senior Pastor of the Kumeu Baptist Church, Samuel Schuurman:

    Dear Holly Ryan and Senior Pastor Samuel Schuurman of the Kumeu Baptist Church

    Please be advised that I am now in possession of a recorded telephone conversation taken Wednesday 6 August 2014 at 12.15pm between Holly Ryan and an unidentified woman, regarding candidates who had been invited to speak at the upcoming Helensville meeting, and the reasons given for excluding myself, Penny Bright, as an Independent candidate.

    (I was advised of this recording on Friday 8 August 2014, and received a copy on Saturday 9 August 2014. I had no prior knowledge of this recording beforehand.)

    In this recording Holly Ryan states that I, Penny Bright am ‘a major activist’ and ‘will cause trouble one way or the other’, and it is clear that political bias against me, because of my political activist background that is the real reason for my exclusion from this meeting.

    However, this was NOT the reason given by Holly Ryan, one day later, in response to my complaint to the Human Rights Commission about my exclusion from the Helensville candidates meeting being unlawful discrimination on the grounds of political opinion:
    _________________________________________________________

    From: Lesley Ashworth-Lawson
    Date: 7 August 2014 4:43:03 pm NZST
    To: “‘waterpressure@gmail.com’”

    Hello Penny

    As per your request I confirm that you approached the Human Rights Commission complaining that you felt you had been discriminated against by Holly Ryan, organisor of a meeting of political party candidates.

    You felt that in not being included in that meeting, you were being discriminated against on the basis of your political opinion.

    Within the context of the Commission’s confidential dispute resolution process, I rang Holly to notify her of your complaint and to obtain a response to your complaint, in particular to request the basis on which you had not been included in the meeting.

    Holly told me that she had wanted to arrange a meeting so that people could hear from candidates affiliated to parties who she considered had a possibility of gaining a seat in Parliament, from whom she considered the public may wish to hear.

    She has organised the meeting on her own initiative.

    Holly agreed for me to relay this information to you, as part of our process of assisting to resolve complaints.

    She did wish to enter into mediation.

    Kind regards,

    Lesley Ashworth-Lawson
    Mediator/Kaihohourongo
    Human Rights Commission| Te Kahui Tika Tangata
    T: +473 9981 Ext 720 | F: +64 4 471 6759
    Toll free 0800 496 877
    PO Box 12411, Thorndon, Wellington 6144
    Level 1 – 44 The Terrace, Wellington 6011
    New Zealand | http://www.hrc.co.nz
    _________________________________________________________

    Please be reminded of s.11 of the Constitution of the Kumeu Baptist Church:

    http://www.kumeubaptist.org.nz/assets/downloads/Baptist-Constitution.doc

    Baptist Churches of New Zealand

    It should be noted that churches are subject to Acts of Parliament such as the Race Relations Act, Employment Relations Act, Privacy Act and Human Rights Act.
    _________________________________________________________

    THE BILL OF RIGHTS ACT 1990:

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM225516.html

    Non-discrimination and minority rights

    19 Freedom from discrimination

    http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1990/0109/latest/DLM225519.html

    HUMAN RIGHTS AMENDMENT ACT 2001:
    Prohibited grounds of discrimination

    Heading: inserted, on 1 January 2002, by section 7 of the Human Rights Amendment Act 2001 (2001 No 96).

    21Prohibited grounds of discrimination

    (1)For the purposes of this Act, the prohibited grounds of discrimination are—

    (j)political opinion, which includes the lack of a particular political opinion or any political opinion:
    _________________________________________________________

    Please be advised that I have had discussions this morning with Graham McCready from the NZ Private Prosecution Service about this matter.

    Graham McCready will assist me with the preparation of a High Court injunction to prevent the use of the Kumeu Baptist Church being used for this Helensville candidates meeting, if I Penny Bright, as an Independent candidate, am not given an equal opportunity to speak, as are other candidates standing for the above-mentioned political parties.

    A full transcript of this above-mentioned telephone conversation will be made available, if required, for both the High Court and the media.

    (FYI – I worked very closely with Graham McCready in the successful prosecution of former ACT Leader and MP for Epsom John Banks, for electoral fraud.

    In fact – I was the ‘process server’ who hand-delivered the witness summonses that resulted in Kim Dotcom, his lawyer (Greg Towers), former bodyguard (Wayne Tempero) and the CEO of Sky City Casino (Nigel Morrison) appearing in the Auckland District Court to give pre-trial oral evidence.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/adam-bennett/news/article.cfm?a_id=263&objectid=11268946

    Watchdogs claim biggest scalp as Banks found guilty

    11:45 AM Friday Jun 6, 2014

    Self-styled public watchdogs Penny Bright and Graham McCready claimed their biggest scalp yesterday as Act MP John Banks was found guilty of filing a false electoral return.

    But police reluctance to pursue the affair has fuelled calls by Ms Bright and David Bain’s champion Joe Karam for an independent commission against corruption.
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________

    I sincerely hope that this will NOT be necessary, and the basic principles of natural justice, democracy, the ‘rule of law’ and commonsense will prevail, particularly given that this meeting, as I understand it, will the only one which Prime Minister John Key will be attending, and will continue to be the focus of significant election publicity.

    Please be reminded that this was the original notice advertising this Helensville candidates meeting:
    _________________________________________________________

    eventsworkshopsforums/10351-helensville-electorate–te-tai-tokerau-cross-party-candidates-meeting

    HELENSVILLE ELECTORATE / TE TAI TOKERAU CROSS PARTY CANDIDATES MEETING
    MONDAY 11TH AUGUST at KUMEU BAPTIST CHURCH, Access Rd, Kumeu

    8 political parties – National, Labour, Greens, Maori, Act, NZ First, Conservative, Internet Mana are invited to be represented by their candidates and up to 2 other party policy speakers.

    Parties will have opportunity to set up stands in the church hall, with public welcome to attend from 6pm to chat casually.

    The main meeting will commence in the church at 7pm. Seating for 230, with sound system. Each candidate will have 5 minutes to present themselves, followed by written questions from the public, drawn for order. At 9pm the meeting will end, with opportunity for everyone to return to the hall for informal discussion and refreshments.

    The meeting will be tightly managed, with any interjectors removed after one warning.
    Questions may be answered by the party policy supporters, seated behind the candidates.

    RSVP to Holly Ryan, Convenor
    …………………….
    _________________________________________________________

    Please be further advised that there is significant and growing media and public interest in this matter.

    I look forward to your confirmation by email, by 5pm today, Sunday 10 August 2014, that I have the same opportunity to address the public at this Helensville candidates meeting, as the other above-mentioned candidates.

    Yours sincerely,

    Penny Bright
    ‘Anti-corruption /anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’

    2014 Independent Candidate for Helensville

    2013 Independent Auckland Mayoral Candidate (polled 4th 11,723 votes)

    2009 Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference

    2010 Attendee: Transparency International Anti-Corruption Conference

    2013 Attendee: Australian Public Sector Anti-Corruption Conference

    2014 Attendee: G20 Anti-Corruption Conference

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  269. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    TL;DR
    No one cares, Penny.

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  270. big bruv (13,888 comments) says:

    Penny

    What on earth would make you think that anybody here gives a fuck what you do?

    Oh, and have you paid your rates yet?

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  271. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Milkey’s stoked since his Catholics did so well bb. You can tell from the tenor of his recent posts! :)

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  272. Nostradamus (3,326 comments) says:

    Speaking of full moons and moonbats…

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  273. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Oh fuck I missed that one as I was typing at the time!

    FUCK OFF PENNY…YOUR BORING!!!!

    There that should do it! :)

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  274. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    You may be right, Johnboy. Those championship moments don’t come around too often (never if you support Wainui).

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  275. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    How can Penny type for so long and still be skipped thru and deleted so rapidly? :)

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  276. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    Full moon tomorro not tonight.

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  277. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Well since we waited 60 years for it milkey we shall be like Sun Tzu and wait another year! :)

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  278. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Tonight according to my diary.

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  279. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ieignz53sagy4h3/Cuckoo%207.jpg

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  280. dad4justice (8,222 comments) says:

    Colville the next supermoon is today August 10, 2014. It’ll be the closest, brightest supermoon of this year. Our resident cuckoo club mental bloggers should start foaming over their keyboards shortly.

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  281. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11305876

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  282. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    So it’s tomorrow morning. Stand down, D4J. Better to take the pills anyway.

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  283. Colville (2,268 comments) says:

    Ok I will accept that the info is confusing but I am right :-)

    Full moon is 6.10 am Monday 11 August..

    and tomorro is my birthday so I will get on the piss and howl at the supermoon :-)

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  284. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

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  285. big bruv (13,888 comments) says:

    “It’ll be the closest, brightest supermoon of this year.”

    It’s creepy how you know that.

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  286. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    God love them Yanks.

    If you mooned a train in North Korea you’d be shot or die in a coal mine etc! :)

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  287. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    I’m surprised you aren’t all out howling at the moon – fangs not fully developed?

    @ colville

    It’s my daughter’s birthday tomorrow too, you leo’s are dreadful party animals!!

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  288. goldnkiwi (1,304 comments) says:

    OMG free dental care for the pregnant. I appreciate that bearing children is hard on ones teeth and bones but seriously, women will get pregnant to get their teeth fixed. FFs. I say this as a woman, we do not need to encourage breeding amongst those who can not afford dental care already.

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  289. Griff (7,700 comments) says:

    resident cuckoo club mental bloggers should start foaming over their keyboards shortly.

    D4J
    I take it you are going full loony stalker again tonight.
    Its not a real prophecy when you are talking about your own future actions .

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  290. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    Colville

    …..”and tomorro is my birthday”…..

    What your star sign reveals is not all good: :)

    ARIES
    You tend to be headstrong and deliberate in your actions. Basically you don’t give a fuck about anyone. Most people hate you but you couldn’t care less. You’re the type of person who would masturbate at a wedding.

    TAURUS
    Warm and caring are your most endearing characteristics. You get on well with most people because you’re bisexual. You hardly ever wear underwear and you constantly smell of piss.

    GEMINI
    Your star sign denotes an air of duality in your character. Simply, you’re a neurotic schizophrenic. A real fucking weirdo, the type of person who’d kill themself to win a bet.

    CANCER
    You have a businesslike attitude to life and a knack for making money. You’re an unscrupulous bastard who would sell relative’s limbs to buy a mobile phone. You are likely to be murdered.

    LEO
    The adventurous type, always looking for thrills and willing to try anything. In other words, stupid. You have the IQ of a garden snail and will never amount to anything. Most Leos are living on the welfare.

    VIRGO
    You like the good things in life and you know how to enjoy them. But you’re prone to bullshitting and you’re a cheap bastard. Virgo men are usually gay and the majority of Virgo women are whores.

    LIBRA
    You are the forgiving type and you don’t bear grudges. This makes you an asshole. For your entire life people will make a complete prick out of you. Nobody will go to your funeral.

    SCORPIO
    You are sharp, a quick thinker and good at puzzles. However these are your only good traits. You screw small animals and love picking your nose. You always have snot on your clothes.

    SAGITTARIUS
    You are the romantic type, soft-hearted and a lover of the arts. You are likely to import Dutch pornography and sex toys. You thrive on incest.

    CAPRICORN
    You are deep and personal in your thoughts, the quiet type. A mean self-centred cunt and a closet homosexual. Your best friend is probably an altar boy.

    AQUARIUS
    You are the academic type and will probably end up working in the legal system. This means you are an absolute pervert, at the least a transvestite. Your ideal sexual partner is a Labrador puppy wearing fishnet tights.

    PISCES
    You are the eternal optimist, seeing the best of any situation. You have no grasp of reality and live in a dream world. Most people consider you to be the greatest living moron. You will continually fail. You’re a prick.

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  291. big bruv (13,888 comments) says:

    I had no idea D4J was an Aries

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  292. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ nasska (10,749 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 7:23 pm

    Is that exclusively for males, because I’m an aquarian, and I object!

    PS, so does my dog, she is a Labradour and not a lesbian.

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  293. dad4justice (8,222 comments) says:

    I had an idea you are a Cancer bigot blouse.

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  294. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Good grief I’m a Goat and while all the rest may be true I’ve never, ever had an altar boy friend! :)

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  295. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    I’m an equal opportunity astrologer Judith. Homo, hetero, male, female, farmyard……it’s all the same to me. :)

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  296. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    I always thought that Labradours were in fact Lesbian Labradors Judith! :)

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  297. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Keep up the good work Minus….You will be greatly missed when you die agonisingly of some dreadful form of cancer! :)

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  298. Griff (7,700 comments) says:

    Always thought you were a little odd, nursey you being a man and all.

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  299. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy –

    Both spellings are correct, apparently, the ‘u’ being dropped with the adoption of americanisation of spelling – first time I’ve been right being wrong! :P

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  300. big bruv (13,888 comments) says:

    I think D4J has just said he is going to murder me???

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  301. Griff (7,700 comments) says:

    We do note JB that loony stalker minus was absent last night

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  302. dad4justice (8,222 comments) says:

    Whatever bigot blouse please get treatment for your obsession. As I said earlier the Supermoon will expose those bloggers who are mentally challenged. I feel so sorry for such fixated abnormal’s. Rather I pity them as they are such sad souls. I pray they get better.

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  303. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    You’d be much more beautiful of course if you were right Judith but if you’ve got a good body we can make exceptions for your wrongness.

    Post a recent photo and we’ll convine a jury! :)

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  304. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Do you think Mad Minus is a Seventh Day Adventist then Griff? :)

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  305. Griff (7,700 comments) says:

    A Seven day fantasist jb
    The sort that win $200,000 dollars and invent imaginary police complaints.

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  306. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (15,156 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 7:44 pm

    Yeah, sure – which site would you like me to borrow one from?

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  307. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Jesus. He must be and he has a friend! :)

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  308. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    The Federated Farmers website should have something Judith.

    A pretty little perindale will get him going. :)

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  309. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    Perhaps that one where you last posted your latest amateur group sex video Judith…the name escapes me at the moment.
    Perhaps you could direct us to it? :)

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  310. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (15,158 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 7:55 pm

    Nah… can’t remember sorry the group one – this once will have to do! Didn’t have time to do my hair!

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4u3xsysv0l76sor/me.jpg

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  311. Griff (7,700 comments) says:

    Here is a recent photo of Judith

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  312. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Griff

    Eek, that thing has more pricks than kiwiblog! :P

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  313. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    That’s very nasty Judith. It almost looks like a concentration camp sheep.

    I hope you’re not taking the piss out of John Key again!

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  314. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ Johnboy (15,159 comments) says:
    August 10th, 2014 at 8:03 pm

    Yeah… cos he’s always on my mind!

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  315. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    That’s always a problem when you have a tiny mind Judith! :)

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  316. Griff (7,700 comments) says:

    Oops lost the Link In my edit

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  317. Johnboy (16,554 comments) says:

    It’s hard to concentrate on more than one thing at a time! :)

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  318. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    Me’thinks you protest too much Judith.

    You probably sleep with his photo under your pillow. :)

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  319. nasska (11,503 comments) says:

    ….”a black sheep trimmed like a prize-winning poodle!”…..

    I’ve seen it all…..now I’ll die a happy man. :)

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  320. itstricky (1,830 comments) says:

    Now when did Genter, Wood and Smalley get Phuds from Cambridge? ( Not a Phud, among any of them? Look at Genter’s nutty traffic policies. A dumb Californian.) They don’t give them away at Cambridge as they do at OU and AU.

    Genter: These people (i.e. Seymour & Rankin) are talking about these things from a position of privilege, they’ve no idea what’s going on.
    Wood: They don’t even know what Whanau Ora is.
    Smalley: Yes, Whyte hasn’t had a good week, has he?
    Seymour: Well, as a matter of fact, Whyte has a PhD from Cambridge, and worked as a banker in the financial sector in London for ….. years….

    Smalley (quite rightly rolls eyes to back of head) looks at Seymour with a “you just don’t get it do you, buddy, that’s EXACTLY what Genter was talking about”

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