General Debate 23 November 2014

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Odakyu-sen

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11363010
“A 4-year-old Jewish boy was attacked walking home from pre-school in what has been labelled a race hate crime.”

Let’s think about this sentence, “Jewish boy, hated because of his race.” Something is not quite right with this sentence.

“New Zealand Jewish Council president Stephen Goodman said the man in his 20s, who was said to be of Middle Eastern appearance, laughed as he left the scene in a car with four other men.”

Four men vs. one 4-year-old boy. That’s par for the course.

On the other hand, if the attackers are of “Middle Eastern appearance” and this is a racial hate crime, then the boy must be non-Middle-Eastern in appearance. (Eastern European, maybe…) If so, then technically, the reporter is correct, and this is a race-hate crime as the attackers were of a different “race” to the victim.

Still, something’s not quite right with this story. I can see some peanut shells on the ground, and I suspect that there is a large elephant loitering somewhere close by…

How should the reporter have written up this article? What crucial information did they omit?
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November 23, 2014 8:02am
Griff

Climate Change, Evolution: Here’s Why We Disagree
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/climate-change-evolution-disagree/story?id=26939619

A growing body of evidence suggests that the passionate debate over public issues ranging from climate change to evolution has little to do with the facts. It has more to do with who we are, which tribe we belong to, and what we hope the future holds.

New research from Duke University, for example, concludes that the science of climate change isn’t the real issue in that debate. The proposed solutions to that problem — including bigger government and more regulations — lead many to conclude that there isn’t a real problem. And even if there is, we humans are not to blame.

In other words, people are denying the very existence of climate change because they don’t like the solutions, and Duke researchers Troy Campbell and Aaron C. Kay have coined a new phrase for it: solution aversion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/wp/2014/11/21/a-big-reason-climate-change-isnt-a-priority-the-apocalypse/

If you want to understand how little urgency there is among the American public about climate change, consider this:

A new survey from the Public Religion Research Institute asked people about the severity of recent natural disasters. About six in 10 (62 percent) said climate change is at least partly to blame. About half — 49 percent — cited the biblical end times (as in, the apocalypse) for the recent natural disasters. That latter number is up five points from 2011.
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November 23, 2014 8:06am
J Bloggs

Great test match – mark the Welsh down as a distinct danger at next years World cup.
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November 23, 2014 8:15am
Rowan

from last nights thread, “a man ? that believes god placed dinosaur bones on the earth to confuse us”

I never said that I believed this, I said it is an argument used by literalist creations.

Time to put down that bong!
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November 23, 2014 8:16am
Odakyu-sen

“In other words, people are denying the very existence of climate change because they don’t like the solutions”

If there are solutions, then mankind must know the reasons for climate change. Remind me again: what are the significant and material reasons for climate change?
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November 23, 2014 8:16am
Griff

Increase in co2.
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November 23, 2014 8:25am
Rowan

Looks like another patchy unconvincing performance to date from the ABs, I have only been following the stuff commentary, but what’s the bet they get out of jail with a late try/penalty etc. They really have been fairly unconvincing this year yet still managed to win, sounds like a repeat of the 2011 RWC where the quality of the knockout rounds was pretty poor across the board. Can NZ continue this in 2015? In reality nz has managed several get out of jail wins plus the Brisbane draw and only managed the one loss, with a lot of luck on the way. We should have lost 2 out of the 3 games against Aussie (and as a result surrendered the bledisloe, plus there were narrow unconvincing wins against SA and Eng so yes no 1 still but how long will it continue?

Ps how long before LK and Bigot Blouse turn this thread into another AB hate rant?
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November 23, 2014 8:27am
mikenmild

It looks like you might be arguing for science on a couple of fronts today Griff, climate change and evolution.
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November 23, 2014 8:27am
Rowan

Looks like they pulled away in the last quarter to flatter the margin, convincing?
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November 23, 2014 8:31am
Griff

Why argue science with the unevolved mike?
NZ is strongly secular very few believe in creation without the accepted modifiers of the major establishment churches in NZ.
so it is outside of the tribe in nz to believe in “6000 years”
Rowan carefully structured his comment last night to have a bob each way.
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November 23, 2014 8:34am
Nookin

It was 18 points convincing Rowan. You can’t suggest that the All Blacks were lucky when the other team turns up for a 60 minute game. Its a bit like Ussain bolt in a 5000 metre race. Five tries is not “luck”.
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November 23, 2014 8:36am
duggledog

If you were wondering how much the face of New Zealand has actually changed in the last 20 – 30 years, I believe the answer can be found in the fact that neither of the free-to-air TV networks’ news bulletins have carried anything about UKIP’s extraordinary results in the United Kingdom in the last couple of days.

I don’t believe it’s because of a left wing media conspiracy here to shut that news up – rather the news bosses know that today’s average New Zealander has no interest or connection with anything to do with the UK any more, and simply reflect that with general omission.

I for one would love it if DPF could do a post on the latest results and their ramifications so I could read what others think.

I can’t handle another Griff / Kea battle about AGW today on GD. Yesterday was bad enough! Seriously fellas… can you not talk this out between yourselves?
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November 23, 2014 8:41am
Hugh Pavletich

SUTTON, CERA AND THE CHRISTCHURCH REBUILD … recent reporting and commentary …

John Roughan: Superman? No, just an admiration-seeker – Business – NZ Herald News

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11362537

… extract …

Not long before they issued their “blueprint” a group of out-of-town media were invited by Earthquake Minister Gerry Brownlee to see the progress. Sutton joined us for coffee in the delightful little mall of shipping containers that private enterprise had created amid the demolition cranes and debris. I expressed disappointment at the wider sceneand he replied with a sarcastic reference to the design of downtown Auckland.

It was a surreal moment. Nobody knew what to say. What can be said to someone who raises the aesthetic deficiencies of Queen St when the core of his city is lying in ruins all around?

He didn’t seem accustomed to criticism, he was used to being admired.

He was capable of saying strange things about himself. A few months ago he was quoted in the Herald on the subject of work-life balance.

His was a hard job, he said. “It has been busy. It is stressful. I try and manage myself; while I work long days I try to keep the weekends to myself. I enjoy the outdoors here – that wellness stuff. I do actually sit down every week and my PA makes me fill out a table of how many times I actually had proper exercise, how many pages of a novel have I read and how many proper interactions with friends have I had … ” …

… The nature of Sutton’s departure has exposed weaknesses that probably affected his performance in other respects too. The Government decided some time ago to bring Cera into the Prime Minister’s Department next year and Sutton was unlikely to see out his contract to 2016.

The head of the department has given him a parting hug this week but those who appointed Sutton should review their selection techniques.

If they looked past his long curls and other quirks at the time, they ought now consider whether those were not signs of strength but flagged a need for affection that has not served us well.

Several women complained about Sutton – National – NZ Herald News

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11363067

Sutton accuser ‘was not alone’ – National – NZ Herald News

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11362702

… and from The Press … the shambles of the Central Area rebuild of Christchurch (just part of the story) …

Opportunity knocks for rapid re-builder … The Press

http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/business/the-rebuild/63440726/Opportunity-knocks-for-rapid-rebuilder

Hugh Pavletich
http://www.performanceurbanplanning.org/ & http://info.scoop.co.nz/Hugh_Pavletich
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November 23, 2014 8:45am
Rowan

Nookin
I have only been following the stuff commentary and when I started typing it was the 60 minute mark and we were down by one, hence I suggested that we were probably heading for another unconvincing win. I checked again afterwards and the ft score had been inflated out to a 18 point win, is this a convincing performance? The jury is still out for me.
Hopefully by World Cup time Hansen has better replacements to call on than some of the rubbish in the current squad ie Perenara and Moody who have been put out to pasture, some of the senior members to ie Cory Jane should join them, once upon a time he could be convincing but he is way past it now.
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November 23, 2014 8:55am
Yvette

Controversial “temporary” terror law changes to crack down on suspected foreign fighters will come before Parliament this week – and a leaked draft reveals they will be in place until 2018.

Previously unseen proposals would see the passports of wannabe jihadis cancelled while the holders are overseas, leaving them stateless – in a breach of an international ban.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/63451448/Alarm-at-draconian-leaked-spy-law

Apart from the content of this proposed legislation, there is the fact it is leaked
And written up by Andrea Vance – advance advisor of many things 🙂

Is this a leak at Cabinet level, or are the proposals already distributed elsewhere – like any courtesy advice to Opposition leaders?
It would be interesting to know if this aspect of dirty politics – leaking security law [slightly oxymoronic] – is a National job or this time from the Opposition?
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November 23, 2014 8:59am
Rowan

Gwipp

Still waiting for the scientific/evolution argument from last night.
When you’ve finished with that bong will do!
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November 23, 2014 8:59am
mikenmild

It was a very convincing perfromance. It is not enough against the ABs to only play for 60 minutes.
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November 23, 2014 8:59am
Pete George

Key points from Laila Harre’s interview on The Nation:

Key points:

– Stepping down as leader of the Internet Party
– “I would love to be in parliament.”
– The Internet Party “could be wound up”.
– Continuing the merger with Mana “will be up to Mana”.
– “The agreement with Mana was always predicated on the assumption that we be in parliament.”
– “We completely mismanaged the last month of the campaign.”
– “…the media chose to focus on sideshows rather than to allow us to present ourselves in the way that we were presenting ourselves.
– “What I regret is actually the failure of the Left overall to get its act together in a strategic and tactical way during the election.”
– “This was always going to be a very finely balanced election outcome. There was no way, no way, never in any polls that Labour and the Greens were going to get sufficient support to form a majority government. That meant we had to rescue progressive votes to.”
– “Labour ruled out just about every other party during the course of the election campaign, and I think that was a big mistake.”
– On Labour – “They didn’t like us. They didn’t want us, but we were there and they needed to accept that reality.”
– On Dotcom’s email fizzer – “I believe that Kim, given the opportunity to share everything about that email, would be able to defend his belief that it’s real. Look, I can’t answer that. I wasn’t directly involved…”
– “What was there for me and for the kind of politics I represent, was the chance to change the government and to get a platform in parliament for some very new progressive ideas.”
– “Where to from here? Well, for me, being outside parliament as a political party is not a game that I think is worth the candle. What I want to do, though, is continue to promote and connect with the kind of more radical, I guess, policies that we began to introduce into the election. And when I say radical, I don’t mean marginal. I mean radical in the sense of fundamentals. So I’m going on a journey in February with my sister. It’s called ‘Rethink the System’. We’ve got a website. Rethinkthesystem.org. We’re going on a sort of pilgrimage meets activism to connect with people over fundamental social change issues.”

Full transcript.
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November 23, 2014 9:00am
Keeping Stock

Dead right mikenmild. It’s no coincidence that the All Blacks win so often in the late stages of matches. They are fitter, and have an absolute self-belief. Steve Hansen and co have done an outstanding job in preparing the team, and the players, led by an outstanding captain, deliver the goods week after week.

And congratulations again to Richard Hugh McCaw. His record of 100 tests (and counting) as captain with an 88% winning percentage is unlikely to ever be bettered. He is an inspirational leader, and that was evident in the post-match interviews, especially the one with Keven Mealamu.
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November 23, 2014 9:04am
Griff

Rowan
😆
I smoke pot.
Like a responsible adult .
occasionally .
That you think blurting out repeatedly that I smoke pot has any value is a demonstration of your failure to have any ability to debate rationally.
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November 23, 2014 9:05am
Rowan

Gripp
You are about as convincing as Dawkins with your/his multiverse argument. Like to put up some evidence? When your ready
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November 23, 2014 9:09am
waikatogirl

The precision of the kick, chase, catch and score by Beauden Barrett would have been worth the ticket price. Awesome 🙂
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November 23, 2014 9:13am
Griff

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/the-theory-of-parallel-universes.html
The Theory of Parallel Universes for dummys !

The multiverse is a theory in which our universe is not the only one, but states that many universes exist parallel to each other. These distinct universes within the multiverse theory are called parallel universes. A variety of different theories lend themselves to a multiverse viewpoint.

Not all physicists really believe that these universes exist. Even fewer believe that it would ever be possible to contact these parallel universes.

From the little physics I know I find the theory a logical progression from the proven existence of black holes
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November 23, 2014 9:18am
Kea

Odakyu-sen, clearly you have not discovered the rules for propaganda reporting. Allow me to help:

1. Any wrong done by any of the worlds 1.5 Billions Muslms is done for religious reasons.

2. If a wrong is done by a Jew or Christian, then it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THEIR RELIGION, even if they say it does themselves.

3. Jews are Gods special favourite chosen ones and are perfect in every single way. Never say or report anything that does not support that.

4. The Jew is ALWAYS the victim. If you do not write your story to show that, then you are a Nazi !!!

5. All Muslims are directly responsible for any and all wrongs done by any one of the other 1.5 Billion, as if they did that wrong themselves. (The penalty is always death)
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November 23, 2014 9:24am
stephieboy

The evidence for evidence is based upon multiple lines of investigation, research and analysis and not one e.g the more commonly associated .the fossil record.!

Lines of evidence: The science of evolution

At the heart of evolutionary theory is the basic idea that life has existed for billions of years and has changed over time.

Overwhelming evidence supports this fact. Scientists continue to argue about details of evolution, but the question of whether life has a long history or not was answered in the affirmative at least two centuries ago.

The history of living things is documented through multiple lines of evidence that converge to tell the story of life through time. In this section, we will explore the lines of evidence that are used to reconstruct this story.

These lines of evidence include:

Fossil evidence
Homologies
Distribution in time and space
Evidence by example

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/lines_01
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November 23, 2014 9:25am
TimG_Oz

How should the reporter have written up this article? What crucial information did they omit?

The missing information:

All men attended multiple protests in Queen St, organised by John Minto. They brought swastikas, and burnt flags. Greens and Mana leaders spoke at the events and gave no criticism of such behaviour. Senior Labour MPs also turned a blind eye, however gave extremely critical messages against Israel.

This week Jewish civilians were murdered in Israel during prayers, and no NZ left-wing leaders took time to condemn.

All the perpetrators took these messages from their revered leaders as a green light to escalate acts against “Zionist” children.
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November 23, 2014 9:29am
Odakyu-sen

Wow, Kea.

Godwin’s law demonstrated in record time! You are in fine form this morning. 😉

Still, it’s not a good look for a car-load of grown men to rough up a 4-year-old boy. Kinda makes them look like a bunch of sissies.
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November 23, 2014 9:30am
Jack5

Stumbled into Radio NZ’s Labour Programme Sunday Morning today. It’s got more PC since Laidlaw left.

Wallace Chapman egged along Australian feminists, the main one a male, about continuing feminism in Australia. Then on Media Watch came the Sutton case in Christchurch, with praise for Vance, and a female but distinctly Kiwi voice reading her words.

There is irony, even hypocrisy, in males supporting feminism, or in Media Watch’s case, the feminist view of an issue. Aren’t Chapman and Colin Peacock keeping women out of prime State media slots? Feminism, PC’ism, and Leftism, are definitelly not natural fields for women, but they are natural fields for feminists.
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November 23, 2014 9:31am
Nostalgia-NZ

Great last 20 by the ABs. Would have liked them to have broken up the flat rushing defence of the Welsh much sooner. Inspired subs by the coaches, finally broke the game open.
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November 23, 2014 9:32am
Kea

Rowan, the choices are not between a scientific theory or god. If the origin of life can not be explained, it does not prove god, and especially your particular god. Ignorance of one issue does not prove another.

If our current state of knowledge about cosmology and evolution was proven wrong this afternoon, it would do nothing at all to prove the existence of any god, let alone the hideous monster you grovel to, the Christian cults god.
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November 23, 2014 9:34am
iMP

That 6000 years thing (Bishop Ussher) was written in 1640 before ‘science’ existed. Come on, we still gonna hold that against ALL Christians? It is not remotely held by modern Creationists (that bytheway, include thousands of world leading eminent scientists, like this amazing guy below). Most of them believe that the earth was created with inherent age, ie rocks were created and trees were created…how old were they when they were made? Of stuff also with inherent age (ie billions of years, perhaps). They don’t just start at 0, which imposes our continuum on infinity.

Check this out: A really really bright physicist discusses Creationism and why he supports it…(5.28 sec).

https://conzervative.wordpress.com/2014/11/11/scientific-proof-of-god-amazing/
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November 23, 2014 9:39am
Manolo

Even a true slave like stephieboy would find difficult to justify his master’s flip-flop:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/21/why-did-obama-flip-flop-on-immigration.html

On several occasions over the past few years, President Obama has claimed he didn’t have the legal authority to do pretty much exactly what he told the nation Thursday night he’s going to do on immigration law and policy.
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November 23, 2014 9:41am
Nostalgia-NZ

Oh dear, ‘The All Blacks have taken home three IRB awards.

They’ve won Team of the Year, Steve Hansen has won Coach of the Year with Brodie Retallick named Player of the Year….’ must have been ‘intimidating’ the Judges again.
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November 23, 2014 9:42am
kowtow

Obama and Cameron are complicit in genocide.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11247798/Syrian-Christians-Help-us-to-stay-stop-arming-terrorists.html
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November 23, 2014 9:43am
Manolo

Dear Longknives and big bruv will be in very foul mood this morning after learning of the IRB awards.
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November 23, 2014 9:46am
Kea

Yes kowtow I have been telling you that for months. But why only mention the Christians ?

Did you not know Syria is at the heart of Christianity ? and has (had) an ancient and respected Christian community. They still speak the language of Christ there. You were too busy cheering on Obama’s destruction of another “Arab” country to think of it.

It might pay to wake the fuck up and realise the – people of the book – were not Europeans and Yanks. Europeans were still dressed in rotting animals skins picking lice out of their beards at that time.
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November 23, 2014 9:48am
Griff

very few believe in creation without the accepted modifiers of the major establishment churches in NZ……..!

6000 years constrained Creationism is taught at some fundamentalist churches in new Zealand.
I know one bright young lass who has been so informed.
She hopes to become a vet. I can not see her belief system being retained unmodified by a university eduction in biology.
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November 23, 2014 9:49am
wiseowl

When Wales hit the lead the odds for the AB’s win went to $1.50.
Backed them to win and Savea to score first try.
Happy start to day.
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November 23, 2014 9:49am
kowtow

The attacks on Jewish folk in Auckland is proof that Muslim immigration is not compatible with New Zealand values and should be stopped now.

These incidents ,as ugly as they are and frightening to the victims ,are nothing to what is coming if Muslim immigration and numbers continue to rise.

Remember Drummer Rigby and similar in Canada and Australia. It is simply a matter of time and if politicians fail to act now then they are responsible for what will happen.

It is not too late.
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November 23, 2014 9:49am
Tauhei Notts

Duggledog at 8.41.
I take issue with his piece about New Zealand no longer being interested in events in England. Shortly after his post extensive coverage was given on radio to English football. No comment was made about football in various European countries.
Our media continue to extensively publicise events in the UK, apart from UKIP’s astonishing victory.
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November 23, 2014 9:52am
mikenmild

iMP
Can you prove that god didn’t just create everything, including our memories, yesterday?
Plenty of your bretheren in Jesusland belive in young earth creationism.
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November 23, 2014 9:53am
stephieboy

The convergence of evidence can also be applied to the Holocaust WW2 where the convergence of evidence overwhelmingly points to it happening based on,

Witness statements and testimony both victims ,perpetrators ( e.g SS officers and guards e.g Franz Stangl commodant if Treblinka and Sobibor etc,etc ) and bystanders .

Documents and records from the Nazi archives e.g Wansee Conference protocols and minutes ,Enigma intercepts of messages etc,etc

Population demographic studies and analysis that include where are the Missing .5-6 million

The physical presence of the death camps and concentration camps themselves including gas chambers.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial
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November 23, 2014 9:54am
kowtow

jack5

bad as Laidlaw was ,Chapperson and his guests would have made the Soviet directors of Radio Moscow proud.
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November 23, 2014 9:55am
calendar girl

A former UK Labour Minister delivers some useful observations on the dangers of too many ‘career politicians’ building their parliamentary careers (and access to safe seats?) on working as special advisers to Ministers – without ever gaining occupational experience of the real world outside Westminster: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11247609/Emily-Thornberry-row-MPs-like-Ed-Miliband-are-out-of-touch-says-Hazel-Blears.html .

What she portrays is paralleled in the NZ Parliament; for example in the rise of Labour’s Grant Robertson, a ‘near-miss’ in the election of the Labour Party’s new Leader. There is a case for both major parties in Wellington to be wary of this kind of ‘inbreeding’.
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November 23, 2014 9:57am
kowtow

The religion of peace strikes again……

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2845198/Shebab-Islamists-execute-28-non-Muslims-Kenya-bus.html
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November 23, 2014 9:57am
Inandout

Kea: ‘Goodman said there had been talk among the Jewish community of children not wearing their traditional clothes in public for fear of being abused’.

This is of course what the Islamists seek, to hide the Jewish faith away so the Muslim women in rubbish sacks and men in white dresses can be displayed without any competition. Next on their target list will be Sikhs wearing turbans. This imported cult posing as Islam will be a huge problem in the coming years, that is for certain.
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November 23, 2014 9:58am
Kea

The attacks on Jewish folk in Auckland is proof that Muslim immigration is not compatible with New Zealand values and should be stopped now.

Kowtow reaches a new low in race hate baiting.

The attacks on Hindu folk in Auckland is proof that Christian immigration is not compatible with New Zealand values and should be stopped now.

If the Jew does not like it here it can crawl back to its nest in Israel kowtow, surrounded by Muslims ! 😆 (they are Arabs themselves of course)

[DPF: And that is strike 4. Two weeks holiday]
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November 23, 2014 9:58am
Pete George

Andrew has started very well, based on a solid foundation. He was promising through the week, was good on The Nation yesterday (key points and transcript) and was better on Q & A.

Little by Little hopes rise for a long awaited Labour recovery and rebuild.

He seems to be stepping up well. It’s important that the Labour caucus steps up and works with him, and that he gets good support from the party.
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November 23, 2014 9:59am
stephieboy

kowtow, which attacks on Auckland Jews by Muslims.?

The desecration of Jewwish graves in recent times was not associated with Muslims at all.

Your mad advocacy of deportatng of NZ ‘s 50,000 Muslims simply will not happen unless you and your associates try and organise a military coup.!

BTW How’s the leaflet drop going.?
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November 23, 2014 10:00am
RF

Should Presland the expert on Cunners family trusts be worried about the Police investigating loose Lens campaigns trusts. I understand Presland has been outed concerning his possible involvement.

The man has no shame.
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November 23, 2014 10:01am
Kea

Why do we allow these primitive animals in the country ?
==================================================

Orthodox Jewish ‘Modesty Patrols’ Put Israelis on Edge

In Israel’s ultra-Orthodox Jewish community, where the rule of law sometimes takes a back seat to the rule of God, zealots are on a campaign to stamp out behavior they consider unchaste.

They hurl stones at women for such “sins” as wearing a red blouse and attack stores selling devices that can access the Internet.

In recent weeks, self-styled “modesty patrols” have been accused of breaking into the apartment of a Jerusalem woman and beating her for allegedly consorting with men. They have torched a store that sells MP4 players, fearing devout Jews would use them to download pornography.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/2008/10/05/orthodox-jewish-modesty-patrols-put-israelis-on-edge/
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November 23, 2014 10:01am
Kea

The Jews burn with hatred for you Inandout. Sorry buddy, but they don’t spit on Muslim clergy in Israel. !

=================================

Jewish hostility to Christians: the prejudice no one ever writes about
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100049072/jewish-hostility-to-christians-the-prejudice-no-one-ever-writes-about/

‘Price Tag’ Israeli Extremists Target Christians
‘Jesus is garbage’ graffiti, threat to kill bishop expose anti-Christian sentiment just as Israel prepares to host Pope Francis.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2014/may-web-only/price-tag-israeli-extremists-target-christians.html?paging=off

‘Islamization of Europe a good thing’
Rabbi Baruch Efrati believes Jews should ‘rejoice at the fact that Europe is paying for what it did to us for hundreds of years by losing its identity.’ He praises Islam for promoting modesty, respect for God

“With the help of God, the gentiles there will adopt a healthier life with a lot of modesty and integrity, and not like the hypocritical Christianity which appears pure but is fundamentally corrupt,” he explained.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4299673,00.html
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November 23, 2014 10:05am
Simon

Poor Griff. The promised cure to climate change ie socialism is much worse that the actual supposed damage caused by climate change.

You lose Griff before you even start. Link away all you like.
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November 23, 2014 10:05am
Kea

JERUSALEM (JTA) — Israeli Sephardic leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef in his weekly Saturday night sermon said that non-Jews exist to serve Jews.

“Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world; only to serve the People of Israel,” he said during a public discussion of what kind of work non-Jews are allowed to perform on Shabbat.
“Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat,” he said to some laughter.

Read more: http://www.jta.org/2010/10/18/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/sephardi-leader-yosef-non-jews-exist-to-serve-jews#ixzz3JplAal3I
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November 23, 2014 10:08am
Viking2

… The nature of Sutton’s departure has exposed weaknesses that probably affected his performance in other respects too. The Government decided some time ago to bring Cera into the Prime Minister’s Department next year and Sutton was unlikely to see out his contract to 2016.

The head of the department has given him a parting hug this week but those who appointed Sutton should review their selection techniques.
=================
Well Mr Pavelitch.
Take a gander at the very last segment of today’s Q+A. Ruth Richardson’s resignation and please take careful note of the Hugs and Kisses between the interview participants.

Its the culture, it aint nothing to do with any particular individual.

As many have noted before Christchurch has something in the water that affects people. Victorian bug or such.

No wonder it is labeled City of the Dammed.
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November 23, 2014 10:10am
Griff

Simon
Read the first post of mine@ 8:06
Thanks for the confirmation.
your denial of realty based on political ideology is transparent .

If science is right we all lose.
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November 23, 2014 10:13am
Reid

All men attended multiple protests in Queen St, organised by John Minto. They brought swastikas, and burnt flags. Greens and Mana leaders spoke at the events and gave no criticism of such behaviour. Senior Labour MPs also turned a blind eye, however gave extremely critical messages against Israel.

If that’s the case then those guys are in the same tiny handful of people as the skinheads in ChCh who enjoy all things Aryan. In other words, they’re not typical of NZers and while their extremism needs examination and eradication, no-one should be suggesting their actions are “evidence” of a growing trend.

Second point: if these guys looked Middle Eastern as the article suggests, then why would they be carrying swastikas? That doesn’t gel, at all.
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November 23, 2014 10:14am
Kea

“No wonder it is labeled City of the Dammed.”

Viking2, Indeed ! I had to question my atheism for a moment there. I noted that the first thing God did was pull all his churches out of there. He wanted nothing to do with the place. Neither do I.

I work with a national organisation with branches all over NZ. No place in NZ has such nasty, petty, inward looking, self congratulatory people. They are hideous and their toxic influence spreads like a poison through the rest of the country.
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November 23, 2014 10:19am
kowtow

The swastika is a provocation against Jews.And remember the Arabs had a cosy relationship with Hitler.Interesting how so many anti Catholics are happy to follow the Soviet lie about Hitlers’ Pope but so little is said about the Mufti of jerusalem .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cy3aDIatrY0
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November 23, 2014 10:30am
Viking2

Yep Kea, I can’t imagine how most of them would survive in Australia or America.

I watched Q+A and all the feminist pontificating around Sutton.
That was after the discussion about China and our relationships etc.
It seems to me to be blatantly obvious that every employer that can should have his work done offshore where the prevailing attitudes of NZ won’t affect the employer.
It also occurs to me that this is exactly what is happening.
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November 23, 2014 10:31am
mikenmild

It seems to me that quite a lot has been said about the Mufti’s collaboration with the Nazis. What more is there to say. The debate about ‘Hitler’s Pope’ seems to be less of an open-and-shut case.
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November 23, 2014 10:36am
wiseowl

CG @9.27 am.
It is already happening.
The politicians we are experiencing now are like clones and are sought out for the wrong reasons.One reason being the capability of parroting the party line without question.
We need a mix of people in parliament not a mix of the type we have now.
Career politicians are the worst and quota based politicians for gender or race are as bad.

Life experience is what really counts.
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November 23, 2014 10:40am
duggledog

Jack5

What’s really hilarious is listening to Chapman’s astonishment and undisguised derision during the current discussion about how you couldn’t just go out and buy a car in the late sixties and seventies – you had to have foreign funds, if you bought one you could quickly sell it for a profit etc etc.

Does he not see that his political persuasion and undisguised dreams for a different government than the one we have, only bring about a return to those times of fortress economies, tariffs, nationalisation etc?

How he got that job I have no idea. Well actually I do have an idea; we all do don’t we. At least Laidlaw knew NZ history. FFS
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November 23, 2014 10:42am
wiseowl

I heard a report at some stage saying Christine Rankin is calling for de-amalgamation of Auckland Super Sized mistake.
Good on her.
The new Minister of LG should also correct the undemocratic changes made to the LG Act that force amalgamations along with giving the message to the Local Government Commission that big local government doesn’t work so stop forcing the issue.
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November 23, 2014 10:47am
Reid

big local government doesn’t work

Akld isn’t big by international stds, its tiny. And scale of operations does pay off, provided you do it properly. The real question is: is Akld doing it properly?
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November 23, 2014 10:50am
Shawn Herles

“very few believe in creation without the accepted modifiers of the major establishment churches in NZ”

In part because they are not “modifiers” but better readings of Scripture. For example, the 6000 years idea is not actually in Scripture, and YEC (Young Earth Creationism) is neither a responsible nor literal/accurate reading of the actual text.
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November 23, 2014 11:02am
Pete George

Argentina have just beaten France. Ireland beat Australia. Some other colourless team won again.
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November 23, 2014 11:02am
Shawn Herles

“The Jews burn with hatred for you Inandout.”

Anyone who says “the Jews” this or “the Jews” that is talking utter bollocks. Kea does not know all Jews, does not know what they all think, does not speak for all of them. Yet almost everyday he trots out this crap that “the Jews” think this or do that.

For a guy who claims to be opposed to bigotry (yeah right) ridiculous and irresponsible generalizations like this are in fact just old fashioned bigotry.

Ironically, I have seen more Nazi style hatred and propaganda about Jews from kea than from any Catholic on KB.
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November 23, 2014 11:08am
Nookin

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11363084
A lengthy article about Dotcom. Talks about him becoming a folk hero and nice guy. Talks about him winning court case after court case. Talks about him fronting up to politicians we dont trust. Then talks about him falling from grace because he fronts up to Key. (I thought he just said that was we liked him?). Talks about people getting put off by flash cars and helicopters.

Where, just where, does it talk about the distinct possibility that he is a major crook, that he may be the ringleader of a huge copyright fraud, that he has also lost case after case and is being seen as taking every chance to avoid prosecution?
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November 23, 2014 11:14am
Rowan

Righto
Gripp again is still about as convincing as Dawkins in his multiverse argument. Gripp the earth is evidence of its existence and that of the universe, like to find evidence of the existence of another one? The arguments of Stupidboy and the mad parrot on evolution are equally about as convincing!
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November 23, 2014 11:21am
Rowan

Wow how on earth did this guy get employed! A better question is if he is nuts how did he get released?
http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/63455419/Raurimu-killers-job-shocks-art-school
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November 23, 2014 11:24am
Rowan

Shawn
A typical strawman argument from the mad parrot, seriously what more do you expect?
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November 23, 2014 11:26am
Shawn Herles

“A typical strawman argument from the mad parrot, seriously what more do you expect?”

Sadly, not a lot.
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November 23, 2014 11:28am
RichardX

Shawn Herles (5,652 comments) says:
November 23rd, 2014 at 11:08 am
“The Jews burn with hatred for you Inandout.”
Anyone who says “the Jews” this or “the Jews” that is talking utter bollocks. Kea does not know all Jews, does not know what they all think, does not speak for all of them. Yet almost everyday he trots out this crap that “the Jews” think this or do that.

Anyone who says ~~“the Jews”~~ atheists this or ~~“the Jews”~~ atheists that is talking utter bollocks. ~~Kea~~ Shawn does not know all ~~Jews~~ atheists, does not know what they all think, does not speak for all of them. Yet almost everyday he trots out this crap that ~~“ “the Jews”~~ atheists think this or do that.

OK ….maybe not everyday but you still do exactly the same thing
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November 23, 2014 11:30am
Griff

😆

In part because they are not “modifiers” but better readings of Scripture. For example, the 6000 years idea is not actually in Scripture, and YEC (Young Earth Creationism) is neither a responsible nor literal/accurate reading of the actual text.

Churches have changed their views Shawn. .
The 6000 years thing is from the bible arrived via begats counting.
Reading the actual texts literally is how fundamental churches arrive at creationism based on 6000 years
That this differs from the particular dogma of your belief is irrelevant as your churches position has demonstrably changed since the enlightenment and the work of Darwin.
The so called meanings contained in the bible are changed to suit the times so it is not gods words but mans interpretation of ancient texts.
These texts contain many inherent contradictions so are open to different interpretations .
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November 23, 2014 11:30am
SGA

Rowan at 11:24 am

Wow how on earth did this guy get employed! A better question is if he is nuts how did he get released?

From memory, this was one of those rare cases where somebody really was medically insane – not just bad or evil (for want of a better word). His condition may have been treatable and/or improved over time. I’d want to know a lot more before I cast judgment about his release one way or the other.
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November 23, 2014 11:32am
Inandout

Shawn: I have had Jews as friends, employers and landlords, finding them intelligent and easy to get along with. Kea has an unusual obsession with Jews, the underlying reason for that may be buried deep in his psyche.
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November 23, 2014 11:36am
publicwatchdog

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/63454874/John-Key-says-sorry-to-Whale-Oil

The prime minister has apologised to Whale Oil blogger Cameron Slater over the release of an email that forced Justice Minister Judith Collins’ resignation.

The discovery comes as John Key awaits an inquiry report into an alleged smear campaign against the boss of the Serious Fraud Office. An email from Slater, obtained and released by Key, implicated Collins in the smear against her own official, saying she had been “gunning” for SFO director Adam Feeley.

Collins resigned, insisting she would clear her name. Key called an inquiry. Slater countered by lodging a privacy complaint against the prime minister for disclosing a personal email.

The email indicated Feeley may have been the target of a campaign to undermine him involving two bloggers, Cathy Odgers and Slater, and seemingly endorsed by Collins. At the time, Collins was overseeing the SFO, and the State Services Commission was investigating Feeley’s actions.

Documents suggested the bloggers had been engaged by embattled Hanover financier Mark Hotchin to mount attacks, including one on the SFO director whom they dubbed “Five Fingers Feeley”.

Justice Lester Chisholm is due to present his report to the prime minister this week. It is likely to clear Collins of any illegal actions. However, the bloggers may be the subject of criticism.

Despite this, Key has been forced to say sorry to Slater and Key’s office has confirmed: “The Prime Minister recently wrote to Mr Slater to apologise.”
……………………………………

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

Still awaiting the findings of the complaint I made to Police over the same matter – so Justice Lester Chisolm’s report may not necessarily be the end of this matter.

hmmmmm …… wonder if there is any other reason behind the public apology from PM John Key to Cameron Slater?

Penny Bright

‘Anti-corruption whistle-blower’
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November 23, 2014 11:39am
Rowan

SGA
True but still even if he was fit to be released, how he got to be employed in this role still leaves glaring unanswered questions
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November 23, 2014 11:39am
Kea

Inandout, refusing to indulge in the daily anti Muslim hate fest is not an obsession with Jews. Nor is holding Jews to account as other groups are held.

It is bigots like you who persecuted Jews for centuries and they know it too. You are a filthy smear on humanity.
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November 23, 2014 11:39am
Kea

RichardX, Oh another filthy bigot crawls out of its hole.

Did you note the sources were from Jewish publications written by Jews for Jews and published in Israel for the Jews there ?

Yet you attack me. You are pathetic.
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November 23, 2014 11:42am
Rowan

RichardX
Does Shawn ever actually claim to know all atheists or state “what” they believe like the mad parrot?
Nice strawman argument though.
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November 23, 2014 11:42am
Kea

“Ironically, I have seen more Nazi style hatred and propaganda about Jews from kea than from any Catholic on KB.”

You mean the Nazi propaganda published in Israeli mainstream news services Shawn ? Can you provide an example ? You can’t because you are lying.

The Jews are not special, there is no god, and they are worthy of no special consideration. Get it through your head.
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November 23, 2014 11:45am
SGA

Rowan at 11:39 am

True but still even if he was fit to be released, how he got to be employed in this role still leaves glaring unanswered questions

Sorry, I don’t follow your point – He’s a jewellery tutor at Wellington’s Inverlochy Art School, how does that present more of risk than working in a supermarket (say)? He’s probably not allowed to be an airline pilot or a bus driver 🙂
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November 23, 2014 11:46am
Kea

By Yossi Gurvitz |Published April 24, 2012
Israel’s not-so-stellar record on treatment of Christians

The 2010 State Department report on religious freedom in Israel and the occupied territories found that the Israeli Ministry of the Interior (MOI) is harassing Christian priests by demanding they renew their visas time and time again. It limits the number of visas Christian religious workers receive, and makes onerous demands on them. The visa application process, when successful, takes months. During 2010, the MOI refused to renew the Jerusalem Anglican bishop’s residency permit, claiming that he was involved in forgery. The bishop denies the claim, and it is noteworthy that he was not indicted.

The MOI further refuses to grant recognized legal status to several old churches in Israel, all of them Protestant. Four Christian churches are waiting years for recognition of their legal status: the Ethiopian-Orthodox Church, the Coptic-Orthodox Church, the Evangelic Lutheran Church, and the United Christian Council.

http://972mag.com/israels-not-so-stellar-record-on-treatment-of-christians/43325/
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November 23, 2014 11:47am
SGA

Rowan at 11:42 am

Does Shawn ever actually claim to know all atheists or state “what” they believe like the mad parrot?
Nice strawman argument though.

Strawman?
ShawnLH at 11:30 pm (April 21st)

Atheism is a mindless cult let by intellectually dishonest charlatans like Dawkins.
…[snip]…
Most atheists are emotionally stunted psychopaths, Griff being a perfect example.
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November 23, 2014 11:47am
publicwatchdog

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/63442779/Laila-Harre-quits-as-Internet-Party-leader

Laila Harre is stepping down as leader of the Internet Party.

Set up by German internet mogul Kim Dotcom, the party failed to get into Parliament at this year’s election in an alliance with Mana.

Harre said she would step down in December once options for the party’s future had been developed.
…………………………………

For now she was stepping away from an electoral focus to concentrate on the question of why change was needed.

“The limits of the election discourse exposed just hows much more deeply and widely we need to build acceptance of the need for social change.”
___________________________________________________________________________________________________

I have messaged Laila on facebook and asked her what is her view now on the Auckland Council ‘Supercity for the 1%’ which she helped to set up, given how Auckland Council rates and debt have sky-rocketed, while services and TRANSPARENCY have plummeted.

Interesting who wrote this article back in 2009?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/blogs/frontline/2575242/Harres-appointment-a-win-for-business

Laila Harre’s appointment to a human resources role at the Auckland Transition Agency (ATA) for the new super-city is a big win for business.

ATA Executive Chairman Mark Ford announced her appointment to his “team” yesterday and said she would be “engaged on project work involving human resources and change management.”

Harre comes with left-wing credentials as a former alliance MP and cabinet minister in the 1999 – 2002 Labour-Alliance coalition government. After the Alliance imploded she worked for the New Zealand Nurses Organisation and more recently as National Secretary of the National Distribution Union.

So why would the right-wing ATA, dominated by ACT/National appointees want her on board?

AucklandNational has become increasingly worried about Aucklanders reactions to the reforms. Opinion polls show all areas of Auckland are against either the proposal itself, the process being used to ram it through, or both. The greatest support comes from the current Auckland City area but even there, it is just 45% support. If Aucklanders fail to support this major reform then National’s chances of winning the 2011 election will be heavily discounted.

The reform process used initially was a reminder of 1980s Labour Finance Minister Roger Douglas whose strategy, when pushing through big unpopular reforms, was to keep pushing hard and keep moving (because a moving target is harder to hit).

Act leader and Minister of Local Government Rodney Hide initially followed the same strategy. Within days of the Royal Commission report being released major decisions were being made about what would and wouldn’t be acceptable from the commissions recommendations, legislation was drafted and passed and a business -friendly ATA established. Within a couple of months we are at the select committee stage for the reforms themselves.

All this has produced alarm among Aucklanders. They are deeply suspicious and there is an intangible underlying feeling that people across the region are being shafted and that big business interests are driving the process.

National’s response has been to take Rodney Hide from the spotlight. The last thing they want is what looks like an Epsom-friendly super-city forced on the whole region by the ACT leader whose party polled just 3.65% of the popular vote at the last election. National Minister John Carter is now fronting the process along with Mark Ford.

With this background, Laila Harre’s appointment provides ideal political cover – just as the Maori Party does for National on issues such as private prisons (Labour’s appointment of Jim Bolger to head Kiwibank is another good example).

It’s more difficult to attack a reform process when well-respected figures from “the other side” are involved. Harre’s decision to join the process of corporatising and de-democratising Auckland governance will help ease Aucklanders’ fears.

It was an inspired move to approach her and those involved will be overjoyed she accepted. Not because she will do a good job for them, which she will, but because she will provide the type of broad political cover for the agency which money can’t buy. The agency gets the added bonus that she will be the public face of the mass redundancies which will follow.

It’s a win-win-win for Act/National/business.

Harre says she sees it as “an opportunity to make the Auckland Council an excellent workplace”. For those who appointed her it has much greater significance.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

EXACTLY right.

Penny Bright

‘Anti-corruption / anti-privatisation Public Watchdog’ – who opposed the Auckland ‘Supercity’ literally from DAY ONE.
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November 23, 2014 11:48am
Shawn Herles

Griff,

“Churches have changed their views Shawn. .”

Not really. YEC was never the mainstream view. The early Church Fathers (second to fourth centuries) often took a typological view of Genesis, but YEC was not common.

“the 6000 years thing is from the bible arrived via begats counting.”

Yes, except the text does not support counting like that. The genealogical records are representative, not exhaustive. They were meant to show the Hebrews who they were, where they came from, and who their ancestors were. Like the repetitions of “the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” they are represetitive, not full and exaushtive lists. THis is why the genealogical lists are different in places.

“Reading the actual texts literally is how fundamental churches arrive at creationism based on 6000 years”

It was an assumption based on fallacies, not a genuine literal reading.

“That this differs from the particular dogma of your belief is irrelevant as your churches position has demonstrably changed since the enlightenment and the work of Darwin.”

No, the Anglican Church has never had a position or official teaching on the issue. As to other churches, again, YEC was not mainstream, and in many respects is a very modern (in every sense of the word) development.

But, YEC was not the norm prior to the so-called “enlightenment” though claiming that it was is a popular straw man with some atheists.

“The so called meanings contained in the bible are changed to suit the times so it is not gods words but mans interpretation of ancient texts.”

Not really. Beyond a few extreme liberals, I know of no mainstream Church that has radically changed it’s basic understanding of the Gospel.
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November 23, 2014 11:49am
Kea

Written by a Jew for Jews…..

Jews DO Control The Media

By Manny Friedman

July 12, 2012 “Times Of Israel” — We Jews are a funny breed. We love to brag about every Jewish actor. Sometimes we even pretend an actor is Jewish just because we like him enough that we think he deserves to be on our team. We brag about Jewish authors, Jewish politicians, Jewish directors. Every time someone mentions any movie or book or piece of art, we inevitably say something like, “Did you know that he was Jewish?” That’s just how we roll.

We’re a driven group, and not just in regards to the art world. We have, for example, AIPAC, which was essentially constructed just to drive agenda in Washington DC. And it succeeds admirably. And we brag about it. Again, it’s just what we do.

But the funny part is when any anti-Semite or anti-Israel person starts to spout stuff like, “The Jews control the media!” and “The Jews control Washington!”

Suddenly we’re up in arms. We create huge campaigns to take these people down. We do what we can to put them out of work. We publish articles. We’ve created entire organizations that exist just to tell everyone that the Jews don’t control nothin’. No, we don’t control the media, we don’t have any more sway in DC than anyone else. No, no, no, we swear: We’re just like everybody else!

Does anyone else (who’s not a bigot) see the irony of this?

Let’s be honest with ourselves, here, fellow Jews. We do control the media. We’ve got so many dudes up in the executive offices in all the big movie production companies it’s almost obscene. Just about every movie or TV show, whether it be “Tropic Thunder” or “Curb Your Enthusiasm,” is rife with actors, directors, and writers who are Jewish. Did you know that all eight major film studios are run by Jews?

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Jews DO Control The Media

By Manny Friedman

July 12, 2012 “Times Of Israel” — We Jews are a funny breed. We love to brag about every Jewish actor. Sometimes we even pretend an actor is Jewish just because we like him enough that we think he deserves to be on our team. We brag about Jewish authors, Jewish politicians, Jewish directors. Every time someone mentions any movie or book or piece of art, we inevitably say something like, “Did you know that he was Jewish?” That’s just how we roll.

We’re a driven group, and not just in regards to the art world. We have, for example, AIPAC, which was essentially constructed just to drive agenda in Washington DC. And it succeeds admirably. And we brag about it. Again, it’s just what we do.

But the funny part is when any anti-Semite or anti-Israel person starts to spout stuff like, “The Jews control the media!” and “The Jews control Washington!”

Suddenly we’re up in arms. We create huge campaigns to take these people down. We do what we can to put them out of work. We publish articles. We’ve created entire organizations that exist just to tell everyone that the Jews don’t control nothin’. No, we don’t control the media, we don’t have any more sway in DC than anyone else. No, no, no, we swear: We’re just like everybody else!

Does anyone else (who’s not a bigot) see the irony of this?

Let’s be honest with ourselves, here, fellow Jews. We do control the media. We’ve got so many dudes up in the executive offices in all the big movie production companies it’s almost obscene. Just about every movie or TV show, whether it be “Tropic Thunder” or “Curb Your Enthusiasm,” is rife with actors, directors, and writers who are Jewish. Did you know that all eight major film studios are run by Jews?

Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good. (photo credit: CC BY-SA Angela George/Wikimedia Commons)

Pretty, pretty, pretty, pretty good. (photo credit: CC BY-SA Angela George/Wikimedia Commons)

But that’s not all. We also control the ads that go on those TV shows.

And let’s not forget AIPAC, every anti-Semite’s favorite punching bag. We’re talking an organization that’s practically the equivalent of the Elders of Zion. I’ll never forget when I was involved in Israeli advocacy in college and being at one of the many AIPAC conventions. A man literally stood in front of us and told us that their whole goal was to only work with top-50 school graduate students because they would eventually be the people making changes in the government. Here I am, an idealistic little kid that goes to a bottom 50 school (ASU) who wants to do some grassroots advocacy, and these guys are literally talking about infiltrating the government. Intense.

Now, I know what everyone will say. That everyone tries to lobby. Every minority group and every majority group. That every group has some successful actors and directors. But that’s a far call from saying that we run Hollywood and Madison Avenue. That the Mel Gibsons of the world are right in saying we’re deliberately using our power to take over the world. That we’ve got some crazy conspiracy going down.

Okay. Fine. So some of that is kooky talk.

But let’s look at it a bit deeper.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31835.htm
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November 23, 2014 11:50am
Shawn Herles

“You mean the Nazi propaganda published in Israeli mainstream news services Shawn ?”

No, I mean the spin you put on things, and your claim to know what all Jews think.

“The Jews are not special,”

Religion aside, yes, they are. They have a remarkable ability to survive in a world populated by people like you.

“there is no god,”

Your opinion. And you’re wrong. 🙂

“Get it through your head.”

Get it through your head, while I might be friendly with some atheists, make no mistake, I think it’s a morally bankrupt and intellectually absurd pseudo-religion responsible for the greatest acts of mass murder in history.
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November 23, 2014 11:55am
Kea

[Many think it is only the hideous Catholics who have persecuted the Jews (recently changed to Muslims) but no….]

Anti-Semitism:
Martin Luther – “The Jews & Their Lies”

At the beginning of his career, Martin Luther was apparently sympathetic to Jewish resistance to the Catholic Church. However, he expected the Jews to convert to his purified Christianity; when they did not, he turned violently against them.

Luther used violent and vulgar language throughout his career. While we do not expect religious figures to use this sort of language in the modern world, but it was not uncommon in the early 16th century.

The following are excerpts from Luther’s work entitled “The Jews & their Lies”:

I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God’s word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Luther_on_Jews.html
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November 23, 2014 11:58am
Shawn Herles

“But let’s look at it a bit deeper.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article31835.htm”

Kea should go over to the neo-Nazi site Stormfront and see how often the ‘information clearing house’ is cited as a source.

Birds of a feather…..
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November 23, 2014 12:00pm
mandk

“Europeans were still dressed in rotting animals skins picking lice out of their beards at that time.”

Kea, you have bought into the notion, promulgated by 19th Century Oxbridge classicists that, that pre-Roman Europeans were primitive savages. They weren’t. They had highly developed technologies, trading economies and social systems many hundreds of years before the Greeks and Romans came.

If you can’t be bothered reading up on the subject, you could try watching the excellent Time Team on Youtube.
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November 23, 2014 12:00pm
Kea

Shawn any comment on the attacks on Christians, destruction of churches, Modesty patrols attacking women and shops, the idea that Christians only purpose is to serve them ?

Or are all those things okay now ? Cause the funny thing is I seem to remember you attacking those things when Muslims do them.

Please clarify ???

From the Jewish Daily Forward…

“The prohibition ‘Thou Shalt Not Murder’” applies only “to a Jew who kills a Jew,” write Rabbis Yitzhak Shapira and Yosef Elitzur of the West Bank settlement of Yitzhar. Non-Jews are “uncompassionate by nature” and attacks on them “curb their evil inclination,” while babies and children of Israel’s enemies may be killed since “it is clear that they will grow to harm us.”

Read more: http://forward.com/articles/123925/rabbinic-text-or-call-to-terror/#ixzz3JqDjgtlf
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November 23, 2014 12:01pm
Shawn Herles

“Shawn any comment on the attacks on Christians, destruction of churches,”

Acts of a minority who are not representative of most Jews.

“Modesty patrols attacking women and shops”

Again….

“Or are all those things okay now ? Cause the funny thing is I seem to remember you attacking those things when Muslims do them.”

No you don’t, because I never have, and I never blame “Muslims” in general for anything. Nor do I make generalizations about Muslims.

“Please clarify ???”

You have a psychological based obsession I think you need counseling or therapy for.
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November 23, 2014 12:06pm
Kea

Shawn, you would get banned from Stormfront for the anti Muslim comments made daily on this site.

Thanks to things like you, KB has descended into NZ’s No 1 hate site.

I have never seen so much hypocritical bigotry and one eyed hatred anywhere else on the internet. Ever.
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November 23, 2014 12:06pm
Inandout

Kea: You are easily riled, and that is not a favourable trait in a person. This infamous person was also easy to rile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi7Oe4GxHk0
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November 23, 2014 12:08pm
Kea

Shawn, So your “comment” is to excuse, defend and minimise those horrible crimes.

So why do you not trot out that pathetic drivel when Muslims do it ?

As a percentage their are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more Jewish extremists. So don’t try that bullshit.
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November 23, 2014 12:10pm
Kea

Inandout , Yes he is one of yours:

“I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so”

[Adolph Hitler, to Gen. Gerhard Engel, 1941]

And the founder of Christianity made no secret indeed of his
estimation of the Jewish people. When He found it necessary, He drove
those enemies of the human race out of the Temple of God.”

[Adolph Hitler, _Mein Kampf_, pp.174]

“The anti-Semitism of the new movement (Christian Social movement)
was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.”

[Adolf Hitler, “Mein Kampf”, Vol. 1, Chapter 3]

“I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty
Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord’s work.”

[Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]

“I have followed [the Church] in giving our party program the
character of unalterable finality, like the Creed. The Church has
never allowed the Creed to be interfered with. It is fifteen hundred
years since it was formulated, but every suggestion for its
amendment, every logical criticism, or attack on it, has been
rejected. The Church has realized that anything and everything can be
built up on a document of that sort, no matter how contradictory or
irreconcilable with it. The faithful will swallow it whole, so long
as logical reasoning is never allowed to be brought to bear on it.”

[Adolf Hitler, from Rauschning, _The Voice of Destruction_, pp. 239-40]
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November 23, 2014 12:13pm
Kea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3SJYRkI2hM
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November 23, 2014 12:14pm

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