General Debate 8 July 2016

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sam green

So the Iraq war was unjustified – who knew?
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July 8, 2016 8:02am
Scott Chris

This is an informative and rather chilling look at the deep web and the dark web:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUP0tx7Ib2w
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July 8, 2016 8:04am
All_on_Red

FBI Director Comey appeared in front of the Senate yesterday and confirms Clinton received and sent classified emails. He also confirms she has lied about numerous things
Excerpt of testimony here
https://www.youtube.com/embed/bC1Mc6-RDyQ
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July 8, 2016 8:07am
Zapper

http://www.theage.com.au/world/man-shot-during-routine-traffic-stop-in-minnesota-dies-reports-20160707-gq0pf2.html

This appears to be a disgraceful murder by police.

I don’t want to sound like Reid…but why is her first instinct to go live on Facebook rather than use the phone to call an ambulance? And why is she so calm? And why does she say “they killed my boyfriend” when he is lying there clearly alive?
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July 8, 2016 8:08am
Scott Chris

sam green (668 comments) says:
July 8th, 2016 at 8:02 am
So the Iraq war was unjustified – who knew?

Yeah a report that is more than a million words long and took 13 years to compile kinda states the obvious. And the mad sociopath Blair claims that he’d help create Daesh all over again even though he’s really really really sorry.
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July 8, 2016 8:09am
oldpark

Just a comparison. An airport security bag searcher ,wants a pay increase,for looking in bags. They think $68,000 a year is chicken feed. A teacher in a classroom of circa 30 young children, responsible for the security and well being of her pupils,their income, Circa $49,000. To make it all so ironical, the security bag searchers,are threatening to strike for a bigger wage packet,you guessed it, in the childrens school holidays. Even worse Angry Andy Little, Liebour Party “Leader” seems to think a strike in the school holidays,is not such a bad thing, of course he is only responding to his trade union puppet masters,who installed him as “Leader” in the first place.
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July 8, 2016 8:09am
mister nui

https://youtu.be/wJkFQohIKNI

Very good video from Ayan Hirsi Ali, which poses a lot of great questions that the feminazis and muslim apologists either are too gutless to answer, or will obfuscate the issue.
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July 8, 2016 8:10am
SPC

I am beginning to fear that one of our housing market problems is the RB Governor.

When he first proposed loan to value restrictions he simply pushed first home buyers out of the market – many who would now have significant equity in their home may be locked out forever.

His first action should have targeted investors only.

Now the continuing signalling of further action, without taking any, is as the PM has noted just making matters worse.

Investors are rushing in and ramping up values – it should be 50% equity for investors buying up another property – and that including an assessment that they have 50% equity across their entire portfolio. That would take the highly leveraged investors out of the market.
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July 8, 2016 8:11am
Keeping Stock

Anyone seen Penny Bright? I’m concerned that a combination of her loss in the District Court on Wednesday and Justice Edwin Wylie’s gracious apology to Amanda Banks yesterday might have sent her over the edge.
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July 8, 2016 8:12am
SPC

All on Red, of course Clinton sent and received highly classified emails – the problem was that while this is fine on protected servers it was totally inept to do so on a private server, thus compromising national security. What is called an “error of judgment”.
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July 8, 2016 8:14am
Happychappy

It is a race to see who has posted the best Column on the Herald today on Labour,their policy’s and their hundred years of bullshit and pampering the poor.
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July 8, 2016 8:17am
All_on_Red

SPC
Investors should not be able to use existing equity in the family home (or even other houses)to buy an investment property, ie no cross collateralisation.
That’s how it works in the US
This, together with the 30% deposit requirement for Auckland purchases( make it nationwide) should slow investors down
Also foreign buyers should only be allowed to buy new property. That’s how it works in Australia
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July 8, 2016 8:18am
Don the Kiwi

“What is called an “error of judgment”.

Yes SPC, and deliberate intent -even though the DoJ will not indict.

Crooked Hillary is going to go down in flames.
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July 8, 2016 8:19am
Manolo

Will the Messiah leave the closet?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3678209/Bill-O-Reilly-reveals-pictures-young-Obama-Islamic-wedding-claims-emotional-attachment-Muslim-world-hurt-USA.html
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July 8, 2016 8:21am
All_on_Red

SPC
I think we all knew she was doing it. Although I wasn’t aware she had used several Servers and ‘cleaned’ each one out. Hearing that now. it seems clear she wanted to hide her own private emails from discovery.
Some might say ‘error of judgment’ but I think most would say ‘ either deliberately deceitful liar or completely incompetent, either way unfit to be President’
Poor USA.
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July 8, 2016 8:23am
stephieboy

mister nui . Juedo Christianity has actually little to do with the rise of women’s rights .and feminism In actual fact many conservative and fundamentalist Christians has opposed those same rights .

We owe women’s rights and feminism to the forces of Progressivism and liberalism not to religious ideology .
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July 8, 2016 8:24am
Elaycee

Finally, some common sense has been injected into the Wellington Airport ‘runway extension’ debate – by none other than Air NZ.

It’s long overdue Wellington accepts it will never be a long haul airport and the pipedream of spending north of $300 Million on a runway extension, is consigned to the bin. Apart from the ludicrous spend, the reality is simple: New Zealand is a tiny country with a small population already ‘serviced’ by two long haul airports – Auckland and Christchurch. And the services to/from these centres is hardly onerous from regional areas. So the WIAL dream that, by extending the runway to accommodate large aircraft there will suddenly be a deluge of airlines wanting to fly into Wellington, is (in a word) daft.

Like it or not, Wellington will remain a domestic hub (because of its geographic location) and will be fine for flights to Australia and the Pacific. And that’s it!

Well before now, I would have expected the penny to drop for the owners / managers at WIAL and they would note the mistakes of other airports such as Invercargill / Hamilton / Rotorua / Palmerston North etc… they all extended their runways anticipating an influx of airlines wanting to fly direct to/from Asia etc to their airports, but what happened? Nothing!

The thought of WIAL spending north of $300Million for no likely ROI, is nothing short of a WOFTAM.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/81859168/air-nz-wellingtons-runway-is-not-the-problem-lack-of-longhaul-passengers-is
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July 8, 2016 8:26am
VicParking

The failing newspaper is struggling to find anybody but their lefty hacks to praise the Labour party on its 100th birthday.
The following wise words, from Labours young President, “We cannot move forward as a nation unless we are prepared to create a society where we can all move forward together.” will I’m sure (NOT) put fear into the National party.
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July 8, 2016 8:31am
wiseowl

I have always believed that the Reserve Bank was independent and the government had no place trying to influence the Governor of the RB.

Key interfered with the process by telling the RB what they should be doing by altering the LTV ratios.

I am pleased that Grant Spencer has had the guts to state the obvious and be brave enough to point out to the government that immigration is a major factor in the housing debacle.

The continued denial by Key , English and silence from any other MP because they have been told to pretend immigration does not exist, raises the question again.
Who is dictating our immigration policy.?

Coupled with the continued fudging of facts around figures and origin this whole issue that is going to have major unintended consequences is being treated poorly.

We also learn that many of the applications for study from India are a have .Of course they are.It’s a way to get here and stay .Get away from that huge population and come and get supported by stupid kiwis and their generous welfare system or get a job and force our workers out.

It’s a shambles and immigration needs to be cut back to returning kiwis only for a period.

Also the tax advantages for investing in houses need to be changed as they are way out of balance with productive enterprise.
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July 8, 2016 8:36am
burt

SPC

When he first proposed loan to value restrictions he simply pushed first home buyers out of the market – many who would now have significant equity in their home may be locked out forever.

His first action should have targeted investors only.

Now the continuing signalling of further action, without taking any, is as the PM has noted just making matters worse.

Exactly, this point seems to be completely being missed by those who’s only agenda is “F##k John F##king Keys’s” must give us free houses.

Adding further entry barriers will impact first home buyers and people struggling to save a deposit fast enough. People who already have substantive equity ( Like Penny Bright ) are being advantaged by these restrictions.

Why are the “mega brains” so blind to the real outcomes of their meddling social engineering ?
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July 8, 2016 8:38am
stephieboy

Manolo, and Bill O’Reilly a Gay Rights activists ?

Bill O’Reilly ‘Outraged’ Over SCOTUS’ Prop 8 Ruling, Doesn’t Believe Gays Have Constitutional Right To Marry

“Add Bill O’Reilly to the growing chorus of conservative voices who have criticized the U.S. Supreme Court’s rulings on the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) and Prop 8.

Stressing that he respects “the fact that gay people want to be treated the same way as everybody else,” the Fox News commentator nonetheless said he was “outraged” that the Supreme Court found “a loophole” to overturn California’s voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage in a CBS This Morning interview.”

And of course President Obama the real Gay and LGBT rights activist ,

Obama Is ‘Not A Christian’ Because He Supports The LGBT Community, Bryan Fischer Claims,

‘The American Family Association’s Bryan Fischer has taken aim at President Barack Obama over lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) issues once again, Right Wing Watch is reporting.

Fischer, whose opposition to the LGBT community is well-established, told listeners in a Jan. 16 edition of his “Focal Point” radio show, “I do not know what goes on inside Barack Obama’s heart, but I do know that he is not a sincerely devoted follower of Jesus Christ. So, in my mind, that means he’s not a Christian.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/20/obama-gay-christian-bryan-fischer-_n_6509366.html

Bill O’ Relly and you the real closeted Muslims ?
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July 8, 2016 8:42am
G152

I notice the vacuous Penny missing from here before, during and
after her day in court…
So it didn’t go to good for her as we’re missing the usual long winded
post that turn up after such events..
Oh dear, how sad,to bad, never mind
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July 8, 2016 8:43am
burt

stephieboy

I’m thinking it’s probably time now I’m getting a bit older to marry a 6 year old – will you call me a hero and follow my every word if I do this ?
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July 8, 2016 8:43am
burt

stephieboy

I was once married to an older woman too – I think I’m the new messiah – but I’ve never killed anyone – who is the best person for me to kill so a bunch of weak minded fearful people follow my every word ?
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July 8, 2016 8:45am
Don the Kiwi

Stephen Boyle is using the Huffpost as an authoritative source.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH…..(take deep breath) BWAAAHAHAHAAHAHAAA…..(exhausted)
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July 8, 2016 8:46am
Manolo

The Swiss have seen the light:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/07/burka-ban-for-muslims-enforced-in-switzerland-with-fines-of-up-t/

A new burka ban has been enforced in a Swiss canton, with two people already being fined for defying it.

Anyone caught wearing a veil in the canton, which is Italian speaking and predominently Roman Catholic, can reportedly be fined up to €9,200.
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July 8, 2016 8:47am
burt

Manolo

Excellent news. If this ban is being resisted then we better send the white cloaked clan into a Muslim city and see how long they are tolerated.
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July 8, 2016 8:48am
Steve (North Shore)

When can we start speaking our second language, and when is the next Moari Language week?
I’m over it – all this mumbo jumbo patronising bullshit
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July 8, 2016 8:52am
Happychappy

Who in NZ will take responsibility when Labour flood the market with cheap affordable housing to help the poor achieve NZ’s dream of owning their own house.Who will take responsibility when home prices crash leaving young people who achieved their dream of owning their own home and their equity in these homes is halved leaving them with bankruptcy or hard ship because the market has been flooded with cheap housing.Labour answer is to build factory house’s by the hundreds of thousand to create getto’s and slum’s in years to come and not about all NZ’s right to achieve only the ones that will vote Labour
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July 8, 2016 8:59am
wiseowl

Who were the members of the select committee that have turned their nose up at the petition over parents being informed about girls being offered abortions without their knowledge?

More interference by the state where they should butt out .Another attempt to destroy families and push PC agendas.
Girls especially up to 16 , need the support of their family and to allow councellors to interfere and most likely indoctrinate kids with bullshit is totally unacceptable.

This committees decision is appalling .
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July 8, 2016 9:00am
stephieboy

Don The Kiwi , will this do ?

President Obama is poised to declare the first-ever national monument recognizing the struggle for gay rights, singling out a sliver of green space and part of the surrounding Greenwich Village neighborhood as the birthplace of America’s modern gay liberation movement.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-poised-to-create-first-monument-to-gay-rights/2016/05/03/0811810e-1154-11e6-93ae-50921721165d_story.html

White House lit as rainbow after gay marriage ruling – timelapse video

The White House is lit up in rainbow colours in commemoration of the US Supreme Court’s ruling to legalise same-sex marriage on Friday. Other US cities also celebrated the historic ruling by lighting up local landmarks in rainbow colours. US president Barack Obama said on Friday that, after decades of campaigning, justice had arrived for same-sex couples ‘like a thunderbolt’
Source: Reuters

Saturday 27 June 2015 10.21 BST

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2015/jun/27/white-house-lit-up-rainbow-colours-timelapse-gay-marriage-video

Was the first national monument and lighting up the White House in Rainbow Colours a President Obama inspired Islamic plot ?

HAHAHAHAHAHAH…..(take deep breath) BWAAAHAHAHAAHAHAAA…..(exhausted)
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July 8, 2016 9:02am
mikenmild

I hope the Catholic nuns in that area don’t still wear veils, Manolo.
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July 8, 2016 9:07am
Don the Kiwi

Good one Stephen 🙂

Obama is simply demonstrating that he is a closet gay and a closet Muslim.
He dare not make it public though, otherwise he could have a fatwa declared against him, and be thrown off the nearest high building. 😉
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July 8, 2016 9:08am
Inandout

Thirty years ago the Homosexual Law Reform Bill was passed. It seems we were so different n our views back then when Christians predicted the end of the world as we know it (in Biblical terms) for passing this law, and the MSM parodied the opposition as a group of nutters. Now we have turned full circle where Muslims have taken the place of 1980’s Christians and have proclaimed their hatred for homosexuality. Where are the editorials, the feature articles, the cartoons? This gay publication at least looks at the Islamic attitude to gays, but there doesn’t seem to be any hard hitting opinion.

http://www.gayexpress.co.nz/
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July 8, 2016 9:09am
mikenmild

Fundie nutcases in Jesusland have opened their Noah’s Ark replica ‘museum’:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/81878070/100m-noahs-ark-of-biblical-proportions-built-in-kentucky
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July 8, 2016 9:24am
mandk

@ Zapper (8.08)

The woman is clearly terrified. Going onto Facebook may have been a good defence against being shot herself.
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July 8, 2016 9:25am
burt

Inandout

Anyone who’s ever had to deal with a tripping out bi-polar person knows that even when they are making zero sense and are completely messed up in their thinking – you don’t call them nutz no matter what they say.
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July 8, 2016 9:26am
EAD

stephieboy (12,394 comments) says:
July 8th, 2016 at 8:24 am
mister nui . Juedo Christianity has actually very little to do with

Stop right there Stephie – you can cut the “Judeo” bit out of the mores. Western values have very little to do with Jews, and indeed Christ himself was a complete rejection of “Jewish” values.

The Judeo-Christian fallacy was invented by Jews to insert themselves into our culture, which they aren’t now and never have been a part of. This is why they’ve been kicked out of Western societies so many times.

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/3088/6666/original.jpg
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July 8, 2016 9:27am
burt

mikenmild

Be careful, calling them Fundie’s might be something that justifies them having sex with a 7 year old girl before they kill you. If that is the case we’ll just need to turn a blind eye to it. Jesus is love !
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July 8, 2016 9:28am
Albert_Ross

Excellent news. If this ban is being resisted then we better send the white cloaked clan into a Muslim city and see how long they are tolerated.

You don’t like it when Muslims in Muslim countries presume to dictate how people should and shouldn’t dress – so you think we should do the same?

We should take our cue from Muslim countries, examine how they behave – and then follow their example?

And this will demonstrate how confident we are in the superiority of our own approach?
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July 8, 2016 9:29am
cmm

Labour 100 years…

A lot has changed in that time. All the issues that caused Labour’s establishment 100 are gone.

Labour isn’t needed any more.
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July 8, 2016 9:31am
burt

Albert_Ross

We should take our cue from Muslim countries, examine how they behave – and then follow their example?

Are you saying 1.6 billion people are wrong ?
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July 8, 2016 9:31am
Ross12

It looks like the Italians are ” on the move” –watch out Brussels

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/07/07/populist-eurosceptic-five-star-movement-now-most-popular-party-in-italy/

Together with the mass rallying in France against the elite , it is interesting times in Europe.
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July 8, 2016 9:34am
cas

Another bit of propaganda this am on Morning Report saying Labour’s 100th would celebrate their achievements including the first state house.

The first state houses were actually built in 1906 under the 1905 Workers Dwellings Act introduced by Richard John Seddon.

An inconvenient truth
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July 8, 2016 9:35am
stephieboy

Don the Kiwi , is Obama a closeted Islamic time bomb conspiracy allowing the Islamic State hordes into the US via the White House ?.

“The Air Force has flown more than half of the 87,000 coalition sorties over Iraq and Syria since the air campaign against the Islamic State militant group began, striking key locations and assets about 25 times a day, Lt. Gen. John Raymond told reporters Thursday.

That number may increase in the weeks ahead as Iraqi forces advance to reclaim Mosul, the most populous city in the territory held by ISIS.

“We have conducted 67 percent of the nearly 11,000 airstrikes,” said Raymond, deputy chief of staff for Air Force operations. “From F-15s to F-22s to A-10s to B-1s to [remotely piloted aircraft], we use all of the aircraft to meet the … demands of the mission at hand.”

http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2016/03/24/air-force-f-16s-fly-most-sorties-against-isis-b-1s-drop-most-bombs/82212394/

Sheeesh ! Go and give your Doctor a timely visit .
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July 8, 2016 9:35am
burt

Don the Kiwi

You are delusional and have weird shit going on in your head. If Obama had been an orphan, bi-polar, a pedophile and a murderer then millions of Muslim people would want to worship him. He’s just a dude who pretends he’s stupid enough to believe in a sky fairy because that’s good for his conservative image.
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July 8, 2016 9:39am
Scott

Wise owl at 9 AM – completely agree, most people would think it is common sense that parents are informed if a child is going to school authorities seeking an abortion. It appears to be that the government does not trust parents to make best decisions about their own child’s welfare? It appears to be that the government believes that school authorities should make the decisions and leave the parents out of it.

That Green MPs on the select committee would support this doesn’t surprise me.However that the National MPs also saw fit to support this decision does surprise me. What does National stand for again? I thought they were supposed to be the reasonably conservative common sense party that supported the family, you know,mum and dad and the kids?

Perhaps DPF might like to comment? Is the National party now another progressive vehicle for the overturning of the traditional family? Is the only difference between them and the Greens and Labour, a commitment to lower marginal tax rates?
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July 8, 2016 9:39am
stephieboy

burt , very deep stuff there !

Will you be visiting or paying homage to the Noah’s ark built in Kentucky ?
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July 8, 2016 9:41am
Manolo

@stephieboy: For the umpteenth time: are you a Muslim?
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July 8, 2016 9:45am
burt

@stephieboy: For the umpteenth time: How long have you been in NZ ?
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July 8, 2016 9:46am
burt

stephieboy

Will you be visiting or paying homage to the Noah’s ark built in Kentucky ?

What possible reason would I have for visiting a bunch of people so stupid that they believe in any other god than the FSM ?
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July 8, 2016 9:48am
Scott

Manolo – I think I can answer that for you? Stephieboy is not a Muslim though he supports Islam generally. Stephieboy is a Presbyterian but he does not support Christianity at all.

I hope that’s clear? However one thing we can be sure of, stephieboy’s total commitment to trolling 🙂
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July 8, 2016 9:49am
stephieboy

Manolo, no ! Coming from a Muslim country with the world’s largest population of Muslims are you a closeted Muslim ? Were your parents Muslim ?

A big difference between you and me is that I try to go by the facts and not Bill O’ Reilly ,unlike you .

burt , only because like your esteemed colleague Manolo you trend to post some compete rubbish as per your previous post .
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July 8, 2016 9:51am
Inandout

burt 9.26: Sanity is relative.
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July 8, 2016 9:52am
Maggy Wassilieff

@cas

re early state housing

info on immigrant barracks and first state houses covered in Ben Schrader’s Te Ara entry on Housing and government.
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/housing-and-government/page-1
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July 8, 2016 9:54am
minus

“Anyone seen Penny Bright?”

Alternatively did anyone see any explanation here as to why Penny has seemingly ceased her comments on kiwiblog, except for the now rare random remarks which can be days if not weeks apart.

It does seem to counter those symptoms which I had thought could indicate her being mentally unwell as the only reasonable explanation for her position and behaviour, and if I am wrong in that, I apologise.
Indeed if she is fully sane, she may be desperately working to scrape together about $50,000 – rate arrears, penalties and court costs.

She is presumably still around.
Busy an hour ago on her Facebook slamming former prime minister John Howard for standing by his decision to join the 2003 invasion of Iraq. So she hasn’t gone under a Council bus, which could be ironic.

Meanwhile after all we have had from her about her court cases, I thought some small very brief enlightenment on her appearance on Wednesday may have been due us, in the final interests of transparency and integrity.
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July 8, 2016 9:56am
SPC

Italian banks have halved in value this year.

A banking crisis is set to further try the EU during Brexit.

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21701756-italys-teetering-banks-will-be-europes-next-crisis-italian-job
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July 8, 2016 10:02am
stephieboy

EAD at 9.27am and as per you just deleted post . Rejection of Jewish values ? No !

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Matthew 5:17

New International Version
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July 8, 2016 10:02am
wiseowl

Scott
Seems there were 5 National members on that committee and they all voted against parents ,family and common sense.

Just unbelievable.
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July 8, 2016 10:04am
burt

stephieboy

New International Version

That’s the problem with Christianity – it’s not stuck in 6th century values and customs.
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July 8, 2016 10:05am
EAD

You don’t know much about the bible do you Stephie? The primary purpose of Christ’s mission was to show the Jews the error of their ways. You may recall that they took umbrage at this and had him nailed to that big wooden thing
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July 8, 2016 10:06am
stephieboy

burt, and a larger percentage of the population today who do not simply believe in it sixth-century values and customs or not.
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July 8, 2016 10:08am
Shawn Herles

Morning all.

Stephie asks:

“Don the Kiwi , is Obama a closeted Islamic time bomb conspiracy allowing the Islamic State hordes into the US via the White House ?.”

No. That would actually give him way too much credit.

Obama is just your standard brand anti-Western multicultural New Leftist whith a chip on his shoulder about white folks. He is motivated by a dumbass political ideology and his personal issues.

But a global conspiracy matsermind? No, that would require way too much actual thinking. Thinking is not Obama’s strong point.
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July 8, 2016 10:10am
Don the Kiwi

“Don the Kiwi , is Obama a closeted Islamic time bomb conspiracy allowing the Islamic State hordes into the US via the White House ?.”

I didn’t say that Stephen – you are putting words in my mouth.
Anyway, despite Hussein Obama not wanting to engage in Iraq along with the coalition partners, politically he has no choice – he could do a lot more – ISIS arose on his watch.
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July 8, 2016 10:12am
Stars And Stripes

Steve (North Shore) (4,926 comments) says:

July 8th, 2016 at 8:52 am

“When can we start speaking our second language, and when is the next Moari Language week?
I’m over it – all this mumbo jumbo patronising bullshit”

Start today Steve in little incremental steps.
For example every time you need to use the word bribery or extortion just replace it with koha or every time you use words regarding neglect replace them with whanau.
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July 8, 2016 10:16am
cmm

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/81806058/the-governments-handling-of-housing-crisis-giving-labour-something-to-celebrate

What kind of sick bastards consider it something to celebrate that Labour can turn the misfortune of others into political ammo?

They no doubt also jumps for joy if the motor vehicle death rate goes up, or there is a drought or a global financial crisis.

The bastards do not care about people. All they care about is having an issue they can turn use for political purposes, then drop like a hot potato when the next issue comes along.
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July 8, 2016 10:16am
Shawn Herles

EAD,

“You don’t know much about the bible do you Stephie? The primary purpose of Christ’s mission was to show the Jews the error of their ways.”

I have no idea which, if any, Christian denomination you belong to, but even ignoring the issue of Jews, that statement is, Biblically, doctrinally, and theologically, seriously wrong.

Christ’s one and only mission was to die and rise again for the salvation of the human race. All of it. You, me, stephie, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, members of the Rotary club, ALL of us.

That, and only that, was, and is, Christ’s mission.
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July 8, 2016 10:17am
mikenmild

I’ll let the theologians among us answer EAD’s point about Jesus coming to ‘show the Jews the error of their ways’. Not exactly conventional Christian thinking, I would have thought. Maybe it’s a national socialist line?
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July 8, 2016 10:18am
sooty

Keeping Stock @ 8.12. Don’t forget the meeting of mayoral candiates last week, where Penny Bright was not allowed to speak and was left outside standing on the footpath! Imagine been privy to that meeting, when she was told not to bother! The witches curses would have been flying in all directions!
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July 8, 2016 10:21am
tom hunter

EAD (3,845 comments) says:
July 8th, 2016 at 10:06 am
… to show the Jews the error of their ways. You may recall that they took umbrage at this and had him nailed to that big wooden thing

It’s like EAD hits all the checkboxes. So unusual to see a live one in captivity.
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July 8, 2016 10:21am
Shawn Herles

“I’ll let the theologians among us answer EAD’s point about Jesus coming to ‘show the Jews the error of their ways’. Not exactly conventional Christian thinking,”

No, not at all Mike, and I have answered EAD, but for some reason the comment is awaiting moderation. so….

EAD,

“You don’t know much about the bible do you Stephie? The primary purpose of Christ’s mission was to show the Jews the error of their ways.”

I have no idea which, if any, Christian denomination you belong to, but even ignoring the issue of Jews, that statement is, Biblically, doctrinally, and theologically, seriously wrong.

Christ’s one and only mission was to die and rise again for the salvation of the human race. All of it. You, me, stephie, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, members of the Rotary club, ALL of us.

That, and only that, was, and is, Christ’s mission.
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July 8, 2016 10:23am
SGA

tom hunter at 10:21 am

It’s like EAD hits all the checkboxes. So unusual to see a live one in captivity.

Phew – that’s a relief. I thought he might be free ranging.
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July 8, 2016 10:24am
mikenmild

Well, not everyone is happy to describe himself as a national socialist, even if he is a bit shy about explain what a ‘modern’ national socialist would do to solve the Jewish problem.
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July 8, 2016 10:25am
tom hunter

SGA (3,854 comments) says:
July 8th, 2016 at 10:24 am
…
Phew – that’s a relief. I thought he might be free ranging.

As usual in these cases, one simply follows the trail of scat.
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July 8, 2016 10:25am
Chuck Bird

@wiseowl

“Who were the members of the select committee that have turned their nose up at the petition over parents being informed about girls being offered abortions without their knowledge?”

They were National, Labour and Green MPs. The two dissenting votes were from Denis O’Rourke (NZF) and Marama Fox (Maori Party).
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July 8, 2016 10:26am
Keeping Stock

@ Shawn Herles – thanks for including Rotary Clubs on your list 😀
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July 8, 2016 10:28am
EAD

Shaun,

Do you not understand the significance of Matthew 23? This is Christ telling us exactly what the Pharisees (aka proto-Jews) were up to: basically co-opting the traditions of the Abrahamic faith to advance their own agenda.

It’s a mistake to think that Judaism is the same faith as the faith of Abraham or Moses. Abraham knew nothing of the Talmud nor the Kabbalah, both central tenets of Judaism, and neither did Moses.
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July 8, 2016 10:34am
sooty

For Penny to be so quiet, things must not have gone so well on wednesday at her court case! If she was the winner she would have been here spoutting bullshit left, right and centre! Instead she is as quiet as a church mouse! I do hope the the ACC lawers finally got their shit together and are making progress. Going by her past cases they have been useless!
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July 8, 2016 10:37am
kowtow

“We owe women’s rights and feminism to the forces of Progressivism and liberalism not to religious ideology .”

Leaving aside the fact that wimmin’s rights and feminism are dangerous and divisive ideologies , the rights that we profess and have obtained for ourselves have to a very large extent emanated from a simple sentence in Genesis:

“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”

The Protestant struggle to translate the bible into the vernacular , the growth of an urban middle class in the 16 and 17 th centuries , private property rights, the Industrial Revolution ,the rights of the people to determine through parliament how taxes are raised and spent and capitalism are what have created the wealthy and prosperous societies we now enjoy.

If anything “progressivism” seeks to destroy all that.
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July 8, 2016 10:38am
Shawn Herles

EAD,

“It’s a mistake to think that Judaism is the same faith as the faith”

In one sense I agree, though likely for different reasons.

That said, culturally speaking, ‘Judeo-Christian’ is one valid way of describing the West. It’s not perfect or complete necessarily, but it’s not wrong either.

“Most importantly, do you not understand the significance of Matthew 23”

Yes, I do. As to whether you do…

“This is Christ telling you exactly what the Pharisees (aka proto-Jews)”

The Pharisees were not proto-Jews. They were just Jews, as was Jesus, all of his disciples, and a slew of other groups, like the Sadducees. They were all Jews. The Pharisees were merely one variation of Jewish theological thinking, like Calvinists, or Arminians in Christianity.

I am already familiar with this line of thinking on Matt 23, but it’s based on twisting the passage and freighting it with a load of pseudo-historical conspiracy theories about the Jewish people.

“t’s a mistake to think that Judaism is the same faith as the faith of Abraham or Moses.”

No, it is. Post-Temple Judaism is the same faith in essense and in it’s basic doctrinal core. Historical developments don’t change that.
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July 8, 2016 10:42am
SPC

EAD, excluding the whole saved by faith (in what or whom) not observance of law thing, technically Jews did not kill anyone by crucifixion. How “they” manipulated their oppressor to do their bidding (to rid themselves of some critic) is a historical, how did they manage to do that, mystery. Was the Roman Governor prepared to kill some Jews at the behest of other Jews … Why, posing them as a threat to the local peace and thus the imperial peace?

Today we can observe how Moslems are trying to get the EU and UK to criminalise hate speech of Moslems/suppress criticism of Islam. They are using the keep us happy or we kill you while living amongst you approach. Also the threat to kill westerners should they have a ME policy seen as anti-Islam/Moslems/Arabs.
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July 8, 2016 10:43am
kowtow

The Hungarians are also on the move.

“On Monday, he scheduled a referendum on keeping out refugees for Oct. 2, further threatening to undermine the weakened European Union. The referendum question — “Do you want the European Union to be able to order the mandatory settlement of non-Hungarian citizens in Hungary without parliament’s consent?” ‘

Note the anti democratic bias in the article.

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-07-05/hungary-s-manipulative-referendum
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July 8, 2016 10:43am
Shawn Herles

“For Penny to be so quiet, things must not have gone so well on wednesday at her court case!”

How long before we know what the result is?
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July 8, 2016 10:47am
rangitoto

“celebrate their achievements including the first state house.”

Is that one of the cold, damp, mouldy ones or something different?
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July 8, 2016 10:47am
Yvette

Christ’s one and only mission was to die and rise again for the salvation of the human race.

A very Pauline interpretation.
That Christ abhorred the concept of sacrifice, as in the Temple, and was arrested for interfering with those dealing with it, means that to name him as a magical sacrifice for all humanity, is indeed ironic.

Many would suggest his revelation of the God related dimension, the kingdom, within each personality was more his mission.
Just saying …
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July 8, 2016 10:51am
SPC

EAD, it is more of a mistake to confuse the faith of Abraham with that of the Torah from the prophet of “the law of God” Moses. Moses was of a type, earlier Hammurabi claimed his law code came from the god of Babylon.
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July 8, 2016 10:53am
Shawn Herles

“Many would suggest his revelation of the God related dimension, the kingdom, within each personality was more his mission.
Just saying …”

Fair comment Yvette. I think those things are important too, but I would see them more as arising out of the central mission, in the Pauline sense. The Cross was/is the means to the Kingdom, both the KIngdom within and the Kingdom in it’s cosmic fullness.
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July 8, 2016 10:55am
Scott

Um – Jesus said that he “came for the lost sheep of Israel”.

Indeed the disciples were surprised in the book of Acts when the Holy Spirit fell on Gentiles as well. They initially needed to be persuaded that Peter was doing a good thing when he visited a Gentiles home and witnessed to him and his family.

That Jesus came that all men might be saved and disciples might be made of all nations is true. However Jesus mission while he was on earth was primarily to the lost sheep of Israel.
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July 8, 2016 11:01am
EAD

@ shaun,

Christ was not a Jew. The word “Jew” rarely appears in scripture.

In fact, find me a scripture that refers to “Jews”. Not Abraham’s people. Not Israelites. Not King David’s People. Not King Solomon’s people. Not Moses’ people. Find me one, single, scripture that refers to those people as “Jews”

Anyhow, back to my original point – there is no such thing as “Judeo-Christian” tradition, just as there isn’t an Islamic-Christian tradition. The Jews are not part of Christian Western society. We might argue that there’s an Abrahamic tradition, but that’s not the same as Judaism, but is a part of Christianity.

Making it simpler, do you think “Jesus, all of his disciples, and a slew of other groups, like the Sadducees” knew what the Talmud was?

Does anyone else on Kiwiblog know what the the Talmud is and what it says?
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July 8, 2016 11:01am
sam green

Yes – I’m sure the Rotary Clubs will thanks you for their inclusion.
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July 8, 2016 11:02am
SPC

As to religion, there is the humble of faith servant and there are the proud (observant and self righteous zealot) who seek to rule and reign on earth. For the humble their kingdom is of God not the vanity of man and men. Whereas the proud, whether the murderous jihadist or the advent cultist who waits for God to kill off the rest of humanity for them, are just ambitious would be supremacists on the planet.
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July 8, 2016 11:04am
Scott

Chuck Bird at 10:26 AM – thank you for that information. It really surprises me that National just does not defend family values? The anti-smacking bill was voted in with National support, gay marriage was again with National support and now parents are still not been notified when their daughters are requesting abortions?

Does National not realise that unless you defend the traditional family then everything else is just commentary? Once mum and dad and the kids go by the board there will not be enough money to pay for all the social welfare interventions that will be required. We will just have more and more family dysfunction and a bigger welfare state and a bill that no one can pay for.

If parents cannot be trusted with their own children’s welfare in such an important issue as abortion then how can they ever be trusted? National should have a long look at itself in my opinion.
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July 8, 2016 11:05am
mikenmild

Christ was not a Jew

LOL.
Let’s argue about the racial characteristic of fictional characters. Was King David a Jew? Abraham? Adam?
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July 8, 2016 11:06am
Shawn Herles

Now being an equal opportunity critic… 🙂

Stephie,

“mister nui . Juedo Christianity has actually little to do with the rise of women’s rights .and feminism In actual fact many conservative and fundamentalist Christians has opposed those same rights .”

We have been down this path before, but when you last claimed it I posted a fairly large amount of historical evidence to show that this claim is every bit as wrong as EAD’s reading of history.

Many of the suffragettes were Christians, and more than a few were Christian “fundies.”

It is also debatable as to how much New Left feminism actually has anything to do with the rights of women. It’s certainly not a simple straight line from the suffragettes to what we today call feminism.
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July 8, 2016 11:06am
sooty

Anyone else see Grant Robertson holding the microphone for Radio New Zealand at angry’s homeless anoucement yesterday!
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July 8, 2016 11:07am
Shawn Herles

“In fact, find me a scripture that refers to “Jews”.

‘Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.’

John Chapter 2 vs 6.
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July 8, 2016 11:10am
EAD

@ SPC 10.43am

Today we can observe how Moslems are trying to get the EU and UK to criminalise hate speech of Moslems/suppress criticism of Islam. They are using the keep us happy or we kill you while living amongst you approach. Also the threat to kill westerners should they have a ME policy seen as anti-Islam/Moslems/Arabs

How did these Moslems get so much power and control of the press to push (((their))) agenda? They don’t seem like natural leaders to me.
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July 8, 2016 11:10am
tom hunter

EAD (3,847 comments) says:
July 8th, 2016 at 11:01 am
@ shaun,

Christ was not a Jew.

This promises to be even better than Reid’s Gnostic interpretations of the Bible.

And I do hope someone can one day run a DNA test on EAD and find he’s got Jewish blood running through his veins. The resulting frenzy of self-hate will be a lot worse than this:

Out, damn’d spot! out, I say!—One; two: why, then ’tis time to do’t. Hell is murky.

Fie, my lord, fie, a soldier, and afeard? What need we fear who knows it, when none can call our pow’r to accompt?

Yet who would have thought the old man to have had so much blood in him?
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July 8, 2016 11:11am
EAD

Shaun – read my question again.

Specifically, where is Christ, his disciples, followers of Abraham/Moses etc. referred to as “Jews”?
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July 8, 2016 11:12am
Shawn Herles

EAD

“Making it simpler, do you think “Jesus, all of his disciples, and a slew of other groups, like the Sadducees” knew what the Talmud was?”

The Talmud had not been written. Neither had the New Testament. Think about that for a moment.

The Talmud is merely commentary on the Torah. It is not the Jewish Bible.
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July 8, 2016 11:12am

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