General Debate 1 November 2019

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mikenmildagain

Happy International Lennox-Gastaut Syndrome Awareness Day!
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November 1, 2019 8:01am
Steve Todd

Wellington’s new mayor, Andy Foster, was sworn in on Wednesday (along with the 14 successful councillor candidates). The ceremony took place while a Wellington District Court judge considers Justin Lester’s application for a recount. The judge has requested a report from the electoral officer before making a decision, which is expected next week.

The following comments comprise my thoughts regarding Mr Lester’s application. It is a significant event in the history of STV in this country, so I want those Kiwibloggers who may be interested, to have some idea as to the matters involved, at least as I see them.

So as not to upset you all too much, I intend to post my thoughts in three parts. What follows is Part One. (I will put up Part Two tomorrow morning and Part Three on Sunday morning.)

Mr Lester “believes” (meaning, he thinks) that 302 voting documents that were “deemed invalid because they were not filled out correctly, should be included in the final count – giving him a likely win”. He also says that “Legal precedent suggests that voter intention is the most important thing.”

He has adopted this self-serving view, because 193 of those voting documents would eventually have transferred to him, and 109 to Foster – a difference of 84 votes – had prior errors by the relevant voters not been made. Were they all to be included in the count, Lester would likely win the mayoralty by 22 votes.

Firstly, let’s be clear as to what we’re talking about here. Those 302 voting documents – which are actually *partially informal* (rather than [partially] invalid) votes – *were* included in the final total of 60,435 valid votes that were counted, on the 17th of October, to determine the official result of the election.

With that in mind, let’s have a quick look at the sort of errors that were likely made on them.

There are likely to be votes with preferences like this: 1, 2, 4 (Lester), 5 (Foster) [end], there being no unique third preference given. This vote is valid for the first two preference candidates only. Lester cannot claim that it should count for him simply because that voter clearly preferred him to Foster.

There are likely to be votes with preferences like this: 1, 2, 2 (Lester), 3 (or 4) (Foster), 5 [end]. This vote is valid for the first-preference candidate only. Again, Lester cannot claim that it should count for him simply because that voter clearly preferred him to Foster.

And, there might even be votes having preferences like the one Gia Garrick showed us last Friday evening, the 25th, in her piece on 1 News, being a number that was difficult to recognise as either a ‘4’ or a European-style ‘7’.

In that regard, if a vote shows preferences 1, 2, 3, (4/7? Lester), 5 (Foster) [end], the voter’s intention is clear; it is a badly written 4 for Lester (and is a valid vote that would have eventually ended up with him).

If, however, a vote shows 1, 2, 3, (4/7? Lester), 5, 6, (4/7?), 8 (Foster), 9 [end], then that is a problem. If the voter’s intention could not be determined – as to who the ‘4’ was for and who the ‘7’ was for – then the vote would be deemed valid only up to the third preference. Lester cannot claim it, simply because that voter clearly preferred him to Foster.

No doubt there are other variations, but the notion that any of the decisions made in respect of those 302 votes will be amended, is fanciful.

The fact that 193 voting documents, showing discrepancies like those above, would otherwise have ended up with Lester had there been no error, compared to 109 that would otherwise have ended up with Foster, is neither here nor there. The above voting documents were partially informal because the preference numbers indicated on them were not consecutive (see clause 37 in Part 3 of Schedule 1A of the Local Electoral Regulations 2001, here: http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2001/0145/latest/DLM57125.html).

All 302 of those partially informal voting documents were included in the final count. As with all the other valid votes, they were initially assigned to the candidate for whom each of the 302 voters had voted – their first-preference candidate. When, in each case, the error was reached, the votes fell to the total of non-transferable votes, i.e., they rightly dropped out of the count, in accordance with the rules. In other words, each voter’s intention was recognised, and given effect to, until the error was reached.

Therefore, there is no doubt that those 302 partially informal votes were processed correctly, in accordance with the law.
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November 1, 2019 8:01am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I think you raise a interesting, wider point about STV. It is a more complicated sytem for voters, with a greater likelihood of errors.
  From what you write, it appears that there is little or no discretion to count ballots that have been completed incorrectly, even in cases where the voter’s preference has still been made quite clear.
  Do the regulations need to be so prescriptive?
  
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  November 1, 2019 8:22am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    I have no problem disregarding votes from people who cannot write down the digits from 1 to 9 without missing one out or repeating one. What are the chance those people understand the issues involved in the election and the positions of the candidates?
    
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    November 1, 2019 8:43am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It’s not supposed to impose a test – it’s supposed to elicit a preference.
      
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      November 1, 2019 8:46am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Yes, clearly and correctly expressed preferences.
        
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        November 1, 2019 9:16am
      - Nigel Kearney
        
        How are we supposed to infer their preference when they’ve demonstrated they either completely misunderstand STV or are less numerate than a four year old?
        
        We shouldn’t merge our understanding of STV with their botched ballot paper. Instead we should conclude they just had no idea what on earth they were doing so we can’t count their vote.
        
        I would allow the cases where a digit could be a 4 or a 7, and only one of those makes sense. But not any of the others.
        
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        November 1, 2019 10:56am
    - MCos
      
      I’ve know some extraordinarily intelligent people who would overthink relatively simple things like that.
      
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      November 1, 2019 9:03am
  - Steve Todd
    
    “Do the regulations need to be so prescriptive?”
    
    While I take issue with you that STV is more complicated for voters: as the descriptive literature says, “STV is as easy as 1, 2, 3, …”, my answer is ‘yes’, especially given that the STV calculator is programmed to carry out the rules, and nothing but the rules.
    
    Were the rules to be loosened, it could lead to the whole vote-processing operation grinding to a halt, as Justices of the Peace argue with DEOs and the electoral officers as to how the rankings are to be interpreted. (Scrutineers can only be present after 12 noon on polling day.)
    
    As the concluding paragraph in the fourth paper, here https://dunedinstadium.wordpress.com/2010/08/26/in-defence-of-stv-2/ (scroll down to the bottom of the article), says—
    
    “Voting in an STV election requires a certain amount of consideration, as indeed such an important matter as voting in any election should. But if voters take the necessary trouble to vote thoughtfully and carefully, they can have the satisfaction of knowing that the result will reflect not just a simple negative/positive reaction, but their entire collective outlook.”
    
    It really isn’t hard. Why should the rules (that have been around for at least 150 years) be loosened for 0.64%* of voters who couldn’t follow simple voting instructions, or were too careless to do so?
    
    * [302 + 87] = 389 / [60,435 + 87] = 60,522 = 0.64%.
    
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    November 1, 2019 8:59am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      “Why should the rules (that have been around for at least 150 years) be loosened for 0.64%* of voters who couldn’t follow simple voting instructions, or were too careless to do so?”
      
      One of the tactics used by people who wish to bring down a society is to attempt to force the 98.5% to change their behavior to be “nice” to the 1.5% (on the grounds of compassion).
      
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      November 1, 2019 9:13am
  - alloytoo
    
    Because then the counters would be required to use their discretion and with the best will in the world they would be accused of bias.
    
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    November 1, 2019 9:42am
- niggly
  
  Very informative Steve, thanks for putting your time into writing your piece.
  
  Question: if Lester believes invalid votes should be counted (and the judge agrees), doesn’t this make a mockery of the rules? And if he is successful, won’t that open a pandora’s box in terms of many other STV results being overturned if candidates call for invalid votes also to be counted? (Granted the deadline to do so has passed, but looking towards future voting).
  
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  November 1, 2019 8:51am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Good questions, niggly. It would indeed throw everything into chaos. I have a bit more to say about that on Sunday.
    
    Also, I’m not a lawyer, but I have a feeling that if the judge orders a manual recount (section 90 of the Local Electoral Act 2001), with the *further* preferences (beyond the mistakes) of those 302 voters taken account of, Andy Foster cannot appeal the decision to the High Court.
    
    If I’m right (and I don’t know if I am, or not) then it seems to me the judge would be very unlikely to upend an entire voting system on the basis of a precedent that pertained to an FPP election, whereby votes that had been entirely excluded, were allowed in.
    
    In this STV case, the votes were always in, until the errors were reached.
    
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    November 1, 2019 10:34am
- peterwn
  
  Self serving or not, Justin has a point. The voting intention is clear on most of these votes. If Justin is ahead of Andy on a voting paper (regardless of slips) the vote should go to Justin or vice versa ie Justin would win (I support Andy but not Justin so I am bit biased with this). A counter argument to this would be whether a less strict interpretation of the rules could have put another candidate (especially Diane Calvert) back in the running. This could give weight to the argument that the rules should be interpreted strictly.
  So it seems the Judge would like to know what the result would have been given various permutations of interpretations. It seems the Judge regards the recount request as legitimate since the Judge has not dismissed it out of hand.
  I suspect Andy (and Rebecca Matthews) need to make the most of it since their tenures seem limited (If Justin wins the Mayoralty, Andy would be re-qualified as a ward candidate and would displace Rebecca). So all in all the number of left wing councillors (including the Mayor) would stay the came.
  
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  November 1, 2019 8:57am
  - Steve Todd
    
    “Self serving or not, Justin has a point.”
    
    In 2022, following Lester’s elevation to the mayoralty in 2019 (with consequent amendments to the rules pertaining to the recognition of preferences), a vote showing 1, 2, 2, 3 (or 4), 5 [end] is entered into the computer, ready for the official count.
    
    The button is pressed. Upon the exclusion from the count of the first-preference candidate, how does the STV calculator know to whom the vote should be transferred? Basically, you’re arguing for all single-vacancy STV elections to be counted manually. That is never going to happen.
    
    One of the reasons why I convinced SOLGM to recommend to the incoming Labour government in 1999, that STV should be an option for local elections, was because the counts would be performed by computer. They did *not* want a bar of manual counts.
    
    Back to November 2019. What if those 302 partially informal votes “favoured” Lester by 152 to 150 (Foster’s majority now 60, instead of 62)? Obviously, there would be no application for a recount. Why should those 302 votes matter just because we know their belated inclusion in a *manual* recount could reverse the outcome?
    
    Vote-processing must be carried out in a consistent manner, no matter the circumstances.
    
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    November 1, 2019 9:58am
Fletch

I see that the media are rabbiting on about how the Democrats have formalized their impeachment process with their “resolution”. In truth, it is nothing of the sort. Have a read of it –

https://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20191028/BILLS-116-HRes660.pdf

It’s not a formal House vote of impeachment, it’s a vote to continue on with existing investigative activities; a vote to allow themselves to continue doing what they are doing.

Hell, the Republicans even have to request permission to call witnesses (unlike with Clinton and Nixon). Look at the resolution. The minority has to give the names of witnesses 72 hours before, and get permission to call them. And any such request has to be accompanied by a detailed, written justification….lol.

On page 5, line 3 forward. Chairman Schiff is not required to make public all transcripts. He can pick and choose or he can choose not to make any transcripts public.

The whole thing is bullshit.
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November 1, 2019 8:06am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I suspect this attempt to convene a Kangaroo court will blow up in the Democrats’ faces, and they will be hoist by their own petard.
  
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  November 1, 2019 8:11am
  - Bell-47
    
    For the meantime, I think the Republicans are keeping their powder dry. The report into the corrupt FISA warrant will tip the scales in their favour.
    
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    November 1, 2019 8:32am
  - Simon
    
    Kangaroo Court vs the will of the people. Trump wins again. Its too easy.
    
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    November 1, 2019 8:53am
  - trout
    
    The ‘whistleblower’ has been outed.
    https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/10/30/whistleblower_exposed_close_to_biden_brennan_dnc_oppo_researcher_120996.html
    He is in all probability the mole in the White house that leaked the content of Trumps earlier phone calls to foreign leaders. This whole charade is a set up orchestrated by Adam Schiff and his minions. The Dems are in desperation mode; they vowed to impeach Trump even before he was elected; they know that none of their so far named presidential nominees will dethrone Trump. A ‘trumped up’ enquiry that may reveal incriminating acts (none so far) is their only hope.
    
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    November 1, 2019 9:28am
- chaos
  
  When the republicans are shut down from asking questions of witnesses, as they have been then this whole thing is just corrupt. If both sides of the house cannot questions witnesses, cannot call witnesses and cannot read the testimony, then this is just an election ploy.
  
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  November 1, 2019 8:12am
  - MCos
    
    The committee that the witnesses have appeared before thus far has Republican members who can ask questions, if I’m not mistaken.
    
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    November 1, 2019 9:08am
    - DJ Ward
      
      You are mistaken.
      Questions have been blocked, continually interrupted, witness coached, numbers limited etc etc.
      Any question attempting to reveal the beginnings of this bullshit are prevented by the very instigator of the accusation.
      
      Corrupt!
      
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      November 1, 2019 9:50am
    - chaos
      
      No you are wrong yet again, questions that republicans tried to ask were blocked.
      
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      November 1, 2019 11:14am
- Scott
  
  Quite right fletch. The whistleblower is a deep state operative with ties to Obama and the DNC. His ability to whistle blow was because the rules were changed to allow someone to whistleblow who didn’t have actual direct evidence of the supposed crime.
  
  We have the transcript of the call. The president asked Ukraine to investigate what went on in the 2016 election related to crowd strike and also mentioned the Biden’s. We note that the investigation never happened and military aid has gone through to the Ukraine.
  
  One hopes that eventually sanity will prevail. But sadly the Democrats and their deep state operatives have just never accepted the result of the 2016 election. So they are trying to overturn the election and throw out a president they don’t like. Shameful and appalling in my opinion.
  
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  November 1, 2019 8:22am
  - All_on_Red
    
    President Zelensky: “No pressure”
    
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    November 1, 2019 8:28am
  - Fletch
    
    Yep, there were calls for impeachment even before Trump was elected. They’ve been looking for an excuse to do it this whole time – first it was Russia, then it was Trump’s mental health (he was forced to release results of his physical – something no president has ever had to do), now it’s Ukraine. It’s the very definition of “witch hunt”.
    
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    November 1, 2019 8:29am
    - Batman
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Trump just finally gave them what they wanted, him to abuse his power clearly enough to launch an investigation.
      
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      November 1, 2019 8:50am
      - Ed Snack
        
        You’re delusional batman, as usual. What’s illegal in the transcript ? Now we have Tim Morrison (who is supposed to have told witness Taylor about the Aid being used as a bribe) coming out with statements saying that there was nothing illegal in the call in his opinion (and he was on the call), affirming that the withholding of aid was unknown to the Ukrainians (which completely nixes that conspiracy theory, right ?), and that Taylor is lying about certain details.
        
        And it does puzzle me, if it is so wrong for Trump to ask directly for help in investigating 2016 election interference and corruption, how can you not condemn the three Democrat Senators directly threatening the Ukrainian government if they didn’t continue to investigate Trump’s 2016 campaign, and not condemn Biden’s direct extortion regarding the firing of the prosecutor who was, despite media attempts to obfuscate the issue, still investigating his son’s role in Burisma’s money laundering.
        
        Hunter Biden, who received $83,333 per month and never attended a single board meeting. And Burisma is left laundering money and sponsoring the Atlantic Council that has paid the so called whistleblower and a number of the “witnesses” that Schiff has called to lie before his kangaroo court. I don’t know about you, but I think that warrants a little investigation, which just may be underway.
        
        Schiff could be rather in danger of indictment for perjury and obstruction of justice.
        
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        November 1, 2019 9:42am
      - kloyd0306
        
        Biden: “Fire the prosecutor who is investigating Burisma (Biden’s son is on the board of Burisma) or I’ll withhold $1 billion in aid.”
        
        Trump: “Assist my attorney general in investigating Biden’s threat to withhold aid in return for firing the prosecutor.”
        
        So Batman’s take is: Biden’s quid pro quo – no problem, but Trump should be marched out of the White House in handcuffs.
        
        They’re called lefties because their right hand is covering their eyes.
        
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        November 1, 2019 10:08am
      - Batman
        
        *sigh*
        
        Biden was executing a foreign policy position which was endorsed by the State Dept, along with the IMF, the EU, and most of the western world.
        
        That prosecutor was corrupt and was failing to actually prosecute any corruption… Because he was corrupt.
        
        The mental gymnastics being displayed over this issue must really be tiring you guys out ?
        
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        November 1, 2019 10:16am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Batman, you simply read what you want to hear. We now have evidence that the only reason that the EU wanted the prosecutor fired – was because the US (aka Biden) wanted them to say that. Cover for corruption.
        
        Is it wrong to want to investigate corruption only if it involves a Democrat ?
        
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        November 1, 2019 10:59am
    - Bell-47
      
      My take is not a “witch hunt” as such but from the outset was they believe Hillary should have won. The “plan B” was already in motion using the concocted Steel dossier. Comey, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Fusion GPS and Clinton all implicated and donkey deep in a conspiracy to stage a coup as early as October 2016. The Russia hoax was nothing more than a smokescreen to hide the plan B participants and shift attention. Once that fell apart, anything they could get their hands on to continue the deflection and keep the lies and deceit behind closed doors would do. This so called “impeachment” is nothing more than an attempt to continue the narrative that Hillary was the rightful winner and as much as humanly possible, demonise Trump no matter how big the lie.
      
      The most disgusting part of all this is not the blatant lies and bias from the Democrats, it’s the political devision and tribal behaviour on both sides that has divided the country. So much so that terror groups like Antifa and suchlike have formed, people being de-platformed, young people being indoctrinated by communism. Idiotic, child like people elected like AOC, Tlaib and Omar…these people don’t belong on the senate for gods sake. It’s easy to see why young people get sucked into communism from the comfort of the US.
      
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      November 1, 2019 9:46am
      - kloyd0306
        
        Yes, but you left out Obama, Loretta Lynch, Eric Holder, James Clapper, John Brennan and Sally Yates.
        
        Everything points to Obama who wanted to know everything, as James Clapper stated recently.
        
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        November 1, 2019 10:12am
    - Paulus
      
      No – standard left wing tactics – in any country where they cannot get their own way irrespective.
      
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      November 1, 2019 1:38pm
  - Batman
    
    You just said you’re not one for conspiracy theories, while peddling a theory about the Clinton’s murdering Jeffrey Epstein. Now you’re peddling a theory about the deep state plots?
    
    You’re a living conspiracy theory, Scott ??
    
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    November 1, 2019 9:00am
  - MCos
    
    ‘We have the transcript of the call.’
    
    No you don’t. You have only seen an abridged version.
    Furthermore.
    Lieutenant Colonel Vindman testifying that the transcript was not a correct, as I’m sure you’re aware.
    Of course you might counter that, as some have, by claiming he is some sort of traitorous double agent. A latter day Kim Philby.
    
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    November 1, 2019 9:25am
    - Batman
      
      It says on the front of the damn doc that it isn’t an exact transcript hahahah. Plus it appears the WH edited it to remove the really awkward stuff
      
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      November 1, 2019 9:29am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Sssh, don’t interrupt the narrative with facts.
        
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        November 1, 2019 9:33am
      - Ed Snack
        
        They are never exact transcripts, these are translated conversations, and typically repeats are omitted. The transcribers and participants sign off on the record, so although not exact letter for letter, these are accepted as official true and correct records. You’re clutching at straws and formulating a ridiculous conspiracy theory.
        
        Vindman himself has admitted that his rejected amendments made no change of substance. One was the substitution of “Burisma” for “the Company” – and note that these transcripts are prepared by 2 x human transcribers and a speech recognition software package – and those 3 apparently agreed that “the company” was correct.
        
        What we have is someone who objects to the policy this administration has adopted towards Ukraine and is concerned that any investigation into past corruption (Biden especially) will prevent bi-partisan support for Ukraine. He is entitled to have that opinion, but he is an O5 level (Lt Colonel) staffer, that translates as “junior minion” and his opinion, good or bad, has no weight at all. Foreign Policy is the prerogative of POTUS and he is in no way required to pay any heed to someone such as Vindman. Vindman also is ignorant and wrong-headed, ignoring blatant Democrat corruption (and Biden isn’t the only one with his fingers in the till) will also destroy bi-partisan support with the Republicans objecting to that course of action.
        
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        November 1, 2019 9:52am
      - Batman
        
        You claim I’m making things up then go ahead and vomit out screeds of made up theories.
        
        You idiots crack me up.
        
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        November 1, 2019 10:21am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Made up, are you disputing Vindman’s admission that his proposed changes made no difference to the reading of the call transcript ?
        
        Are you disputing the fact of 2 human transcribers and a machine translation assistant ?
        
        You probably do dispute the fact that Vindman simply has a policy disagreement, but his major concern appears to be that an investigation into past corruption would be damaging to “bi-partisan” support. That’s policy.
        
        If you think Vindman has pointed out anything illegal, please feel free to share it.
        
        Otherwise all you have is the conspiracy theory that Trump asking the Ukraine to investigate 2016 and earlier corruption is a deliberate stroke against Joe Biden’s candidacy – so explicitly supporting corrupt practices as long as they are by people you support.
        
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        November 1, 2019 10:28am
      - Batman
        
        You summed it up the final para.
        
        Trump committed an impeachable offence on that call. Using the power of government to gain a political advantage.
        
        Biden’s actions weren’t corruption. That’s the rather pathetic straw man being run by those who don’t have a defence of Trump’s actions other than “liar liar!”
        
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        November 1, 2019 10:48am
      - chaos
        
        You do make things up Batman, you have with me claiming that something hasn’t happened and when I provided the link to the article you shut up. You are as bad as idiot boy, actually worse because you think because you are a moderator you matter, you don’t, you are as full of shit as her, making things up you cannot prove, deleting posts you don’t like that point you out.
        
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        November 1, 2019 11:22am
    - DJ Ward
      
      Crap, its not abridged. All parties to the call came to consensus to its content. IE a democracy of individuals who agreed that the content is truthful. Try getting beyond reasonable doubt your delusion is the truth.
      
      Just more fake news.
      Suggest getting counselling for your CNN fake news addiction.
      
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      November 1, 2019 9:55am
      - Batman
        
        Clearly it is abridged. It says so on the front page.
        
        Have you even read it? I bet not.
        
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        November 1, 2019 10:19am
- Inandout
  
  Two Dems have broken ranks because their State may go to the Republicans and they are worried.
  
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  November 1, 2019 9:18am
- Stephen Russell
  
  I have no doubt that if Republicans were able to call any witnesses they wanted without veto they would immediately call 8000 witnesses and sabotage the whole process.
  
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  November 1, 2019 12:15pm
chaos

No matter what side of the issue you sit on this is a sad day for justice and freedom

“ The vote was a victory for majority Democrats, who will control the investigation in the House. It gives them the ability to curb the ability of Republicans to subpoena witnesses and of White House lawyers to present witnesses.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12281405
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November 1, 2019 8:08am
- All_on_Red
  
  https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2019/10/30/whistleblower_exposed_close_to_biden_brennan_dnc_oppo_researcher_120996.html
  
  https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/30/joe-biden-repeatedly-asked-federal-agencies-to-do-what-his-sons-lobbying-clients-wanted/
  
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  November 1, 2019 8:19am
  - chaos
    
    Yeah I saw him name yesterday and his links to the Democrats.
    
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    November 1, 2019 8:20am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The identity of the whistleblower(s) is irrelevant. Or, about as relevant as the identity of a passerby who phones 111 to report a house on fire.
      The information provided by the whistleblower(s) has been confirmed by the partial transcript, the president himself, by the white house chief-of-staff, and multiple witnesses.
      
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      November 1, 2019 8:32am
      - Batman
        
        And overnight a White House aide has joined the club of people testifying to a quid pro quo.
        
        I look forward to this aide being described as a radical leftist spy.
        
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        November 1, 2019 8:49am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Well, Batman, hasn’t just about everyone who has departed the white house clown car been described as ‘swampy’ or part of the ‘deep state’?
        
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        November 1, 2019 8:54am
      - Batman
        
        Nah mate, they just couldn’t handle the genius of that great president. At least that’s this weeks argument I believe…
        
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        November 1, 2019 9:02am
      - All_on_Red
        
        NSC official Tim Morrison’s opening statement says re. July 25 Trump-Zelensky phone call:
        “I was not concerned that anything illegal was discussed.” Also says he believes partial readout released by WH “accurately and completely reflects the substance of the call”
        Oh, and the background and previous actions of the ‘reporter of third hand hearsay’ is relevant.
        
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        November 1, 2019 8:59am
      - Vory v zakone
        
        Except for the fact that Eric the non-whistleblower-hearsay-whistleblower said there were EIGHT definite examples of quid pro quo and Joe Biden was mentioned THREE times. None of those occured.
        And your Lt Colonel Vindman, when asked to show where in the transcript Trump made DEMANDS of Zelensky, spent three minutes mumbling to himself without providing anything.
        
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        November 1, 2019 9:29am
      - Batman
        
        But but but but!!
        
        You got nothin’ mate
        
        2 15
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        November 1, 2019 9:36am
      - Ed Snack
        
        No, the identity exposed as a plant is not irrelevant. Love your conspiracy clutching “partial transcript”. The Whistleblower (so called) has been proven to be wrong in at least 7 specific points, and he was not a party to the call anyway.
        
        Just as an example, the original WB complaint says that Trump “made a promise” – and there is zero mention of a promise in the transcript.
        
        You’re clutching at straws, this is simply a mechanism to enable a fig leaf of legitimacy to cover Schiff holding a “Star Chamber” inquisition, leaking partial and distorted transcript excerpts to his friends in teh MSM as part of the Democrats 2020 election strategy.
        
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        November 1, 2019 9:58am
      - Batman
        
        It’s not about a promise from Trump. It’s a promise FOR Trump.
        
        An investigation and public announcement of that investigation into Biden, and in return Ukraine gets military aid and a White House visit.
        
        You keep on living in your fantasy land, it’ll keep you happy.
        
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        November 1, 2019 10:19am
      - chaos
        
        No the name is not irrelevant and the fact he was sacked from the trump White House is also relevant. The fact he has worked close with a number of democrats is also relevant, and the fact that nothing he says is first hand is also relevant.
        
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        November 1, 2019 11:16am
      - Vory v zakone
        
        Meanwhile YOUR ‘fantasy land’ theory that #FullOfShiff is trying to convince the American people with, will crash and burn before the year is out. I can’t wait until Trey Gowdy and Trump’s other lawyers get into action, and Lindsey Graham starts his Senate Judiciary Committee enquiry and subpoenas witnesses to testify.
        
        Of course they will be helped by Barr and Durham’s extensive report which will include the Ukrainian corruption and collusion during the 2016 election campaign.
        
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        November 1, 2019 11:38am
  - Scott
    
    Just while I’m here can I mention Jeffrey Epstein?
    The death of Jeffrey Epstein gets more suspicious as we find out more.
    We know his cell mate was moved out just before he died leaving him alone.
    We know that the guards fell asleep and didn’t watch him during the critical time.
    
    But hey, let’s look at the closed circuit TV which will show whether someone came into Epstein’s cell? That will definitely show whether he could possibly have been murdered?
    But hey, what do you know? The surveillance TV was not working at the time!
    So let’s sum up – all three things had to come together at the same time. No cell mate, no guards and no surveillance video! That’s quite a coincidence.
    
    I’m not normally one for conspiracy theories. But Epstein had a lot of dirt on a lot of high profile people, including Bill Clinton. It does seem suspicious!??
    
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    November 1, 2019 8:24am
    - stephieboy
      
      Scott, very well mention Epstein. Unlike her Fox ill infomed detractors the NY Examiner in Chief Barbara Sampson performed the autopsy and confirms that it was death by suicide .
      
      Not the idle speculations of those who were not present!
      
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-16/epstein-died-of-suicide-by-hanging-medical-examiner-says
      
      Her statement,
      
      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-16/epstein-died-of-suicide-by-hanging-medical-examiner-says
      
      1 18
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      November 1, 2019 9:53am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Sure, but coincidences do happen. I’d really like to see a thorough investigation (which may be happening) but am reluctant to ascribe to any specific conspiracy theory before we know more.
      
      Also note that the medical examiner sounding off at present was the person who apparently conducted an autopsy on Michael Brown (of “hands up, don’t shoot” infamy) and he was shown to be pretty wrong headed in that case. So I’d be a little cautious about his findings.
      
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      November 1, 2019 10:02am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Actually,
      
      All you can say that it was death by hanging. To conclude otherwise you would have had to have seen the footage, which as Scott says is one of three things needed to not happen.
      
      If it was suicide, it is possible they allowed him to do it, by removing his cellmate, taking him off suicide watch, and ensuring the camera system was offline.
      
      Suicide or murder, some crime was committed, not that most people actually care since he was a trafficker and predator. And it saved the government millions of dollars in legal costs.
      
      I doubt anyone is really losing sleep over it.
      
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      November 1, 2019 3:04pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s almost as if the majority party gets to set the rules for processes?
  But I’m sure you were equally upset when the senate refused to even consider a president’s nomination for a supreme court vacancy.
  In the real world, the is no real problem with the processes adopted for the impeachment inquiries. Whining about the process is a substitue for advancing any compelling substantive reasons why the president should not be impeached.
  
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  November 1, 2019 8:26am
  - Batman
    
    The GOP sound like woke student politicians, complaining that the process isn’t inclusive enough and is thus a crime.
    
    2 14
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    November 1, 2019 8:58am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Scratch a Lefty and there’s the Fascist
    
    19 2
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    November 1, 2019 9:00am
    - MCos
      
      Sounds like a couple of horses in race 3 at Avondale
      
      6 1
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      November 1, 2019 9:33am
    - Vory v zakone
      
      AOR, John Solomon has a great summary on the real corruption scandal in the Ukraine from the Democrats and the Bidens, assisted by the biased fake news and conspiracy theory media.
      
      https://johnsolomonreports.com/debunking-some-of-the-ukraine-scandal-myths-about-biden-and-election-interference/
      
      7 2
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      November 1, 2019 9:35am
      - stephieboy
        
        Vory v zakone,
        All Roads lead back to John Solomon and his baseless claims that go way back to Clinton Cash etc ,
        
        ” The Invention of the Conspiracy Theory on Biden and Ukraine”
        
        How a conservative dark-money group that targeted Hillary Clinton in 2016 spread the discredited story that may lead to Donald Trump’s impeachment.
        
        https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-invention-of-the-conspiracy-theory-on-biden-and-ukraine
        
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        November 1, 2019 10:05am
  - Ed Snack
    
    So why would you want to block any evidence that is exculpatory for the President from being presented to the Judiciary committee which will actually draft the articles ?
    
    So say you have good circumstantial evidence of a crime, but there’s the inconvenient fact that the alleged perpetrator was definitely somewhere else at the time – oh don’t allow that – we want an indictment regardless of the facts. Is that your position ?
    
    I do understand the Democrat’s position, this is not intended as a fair and reasonable inquiry into possible “High Crimes and Misdemeanors”, it is intended as a source of corrupt and manufactured evidence to be leaked to the MSM as part of an election strategy. OK, we understand how they operate, but how will the voters react as they find out what’s happening ?
    
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    November 1, 2019 10:09am
  - chaos
    
    I’m amazed anyone would support an investigation where the person being investigated is not allowed to defend themselves. Wow, people who support that kind of investigation need to think again just what means. Not allowed too call wittnesses or question them to defend yourself.
    
    7 4
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    November 1, 2019 11:19am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What’s going on at Fraser House that NZ is being subject to the USA smokescreen?
    
    Who care about US politics except Ardern’s mob creating bobsy-die here?
    Something’s brewing. Is Winston pulling out? Has Woods gone soft? Is Shame missing a few trees?
    ☑️☑️
    
    13 2
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    November 1, 2019 11:54am
hullkiwi

An example this morning of the stupidity of the urban woke elite, in particular the Chief Exec/Editor of Stuff.

It seems Stuff adopted a policy in the wake of the Christchurch shootings to ban all advertising of any gun club events in any of their publications.

So, the Taranaki Historical Guns and Militaria club are prevented from advertising their event in the Taranaki News. This is despite all weapons that will be displayed/traded at the event complying with the current and future amended legislation and traders being certified by police.

So, here we have the Woke liberals determining what they consider to be appropriate for our communities. Why don’t they go the whole way and label such organisations “gun club fascists and white supremacists”!
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November 1, 2019 8:10am
- Simon
  
  Yep and MSM cant work out why they are going out of business. Its the ‘technology”.
  
  MSM in Merica runs paid ads promoting CCP and China. New NZ MSM business model in run paid CCP propaganda.
  
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  November 1, 2019 8:38am
- oldgolfer
  
  If I were a gun owner and if I subscribed to any Stuff publication (heaven forbid) I would cancel it forthwith.
  
  32 0
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  November 1, 2019 8:50am
  - igm
    
    Make sure when purchasing expensive goods you check to see if they are advertised in Fairfax publications. If they are, find an alternative, making sure to inform the retailer/wholesaler why you purchased elsewhere.
    
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    November 2, 2019 9:37am
- Paginus
  
  Bake the damn cake. Those are the rules of the left. We must hold them to their own rules.
  Stuff took the side of the homosexuals over the freedom of the private baker.
  Stuff should print the damn gun ad.
  
  15 0
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  November 1, 2019 9:39am
All_on_Red

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 41% (+8)
LAB: 24% (-)
LDEM: 20% (-3)
BREX: 7% (-3)
GRN: 3% (-1)

via @IpsosMORI, 25 – 28 Oct
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November 1, 2019 8:14am
- Simon
  
  UK election. Trump has already interfered in the UK election. He took out Baghdadi before he could get his postal ballot away for Labour.
  
  26 3
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  November 1, 2019 8:29am
Maggie Pie

We locked up early last night and headed down to the Viaduct to enjoy a few drinks and a 15 course degustation, Phoned for an Uber home about 9pm and headed off. As the driver swung the Shore Rd roundabout into the Avenue, the new mini street lites displayed a scene of quite serenity. Even the trees were perfectly still. A few seconds later we turned into our drive. First thing we notice is that some little f~~kin scrotes have egged our gates, and even smeared a sticky brown substance all over the electronic camera keypad.

I blame the hopeless bloody parents 🙁
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November 1, 2019 8:14am
- chaos
  
  I blame you, why didn’t you electrify your fence and the ground around it?
  
  23 2
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  November 1, 2019 8:22am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  You shouldn’t have been so rude to them last halloween.
  
  28 1
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  November 1, 2019 8:27am
  - Chris R
    
    Halloween in a NZ context is a load of rubbish. I did not suffer any visitors this year. I currently have a major head-cold and had hoped to pass it on as my “trick!”
    
    22 1
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    November 1, 2019 8:40am
- MCos
  
  At least the eggs will be free range in that part of Auckland.
  
  7 0
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  November 1, 2019 9:39am
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Trump’s Ukraine dishonesty salvos continues. He true to past form made 96 false claims last week”

“President Donald Trump was relentlessly dishonest last week about the scandal over his dealings with Ukraine, making false claims about just about every component of the story.

Trump made 96 false claims last week, the second-highest total of the 16 weeks we’ve counted at CNN. He made 53 false claims last Monday alone — a remarkable 31 in rambling comments at his Cabinet meeting and 22 more in an interview with Fox News’ Sean Hannity.

Fifty-three false claims is by far the most Trump has made in any day in the 16 weeks we’ve tracked, beating the previous high of 41. Trump has averaged about 68 false claims per week over the 16-week period — just shy of 10 false claims per day.

His deception last week was focused on his conduct toward Ukraine and Democrats’ related impeachment inquiry. Deep breath now:”

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/30/politics/fact-check-trump-96- false-claims-ukraine/index.html
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November 1, 2019 8:16am
- All_on_Red
  
  Yeah, that Fact Check on that Dog getting a Medal was a killer
  It’s over for Trump
  LOL
  
  37 2
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  November 1, 2019 8:21am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    What fact check? The incident was humorous for the president himself tweeting out the photo. His speciality is making himself look ridiculous.
    
    1 28
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    November 1, 2019 8:28am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Reeeeeeeeee
      
      14 2
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      November 1, 2019 9:01am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I think the Halloween candy vid might be my favourite so far, although Trumpy being unable to close an umbrella runs it close.
        
        2 17
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        November 1, 2019 9:06am
      - Vory v zakone
        
        Meh. These are Award Winning Halloween Costumes
        #LockHerUp 😉
        
        https://elephantaddress.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/haloween-costumes.jpg
        
        3 1
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        November 1, 2019 10:05am
      - Ed Snack
        
        I always liked Obama going up to a permanently closed door in the Whitehouse and banging his nose on it trying to open it.
        
        5 0
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        November 1, 2019 10:14am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I haven’t seen that one Ed. Please link and we can compare with the multiple videos of Trump wandering off stage, forgetting where his limo is, walking with toilet paper on his shoe, umbrella failure, not to mention all the word salad and straight-up crazy talk.
        
        1 13
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        November 1, 2019 1:00pm
    - Paulus
      
      When will the media understand that Trump is taking the piss out of them ? – regularly.
      
      3 0
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      November 1, 2019 2:03pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  If any media organisation should be fact-checked, it’s CNN, known to some as the Clinton News Network 😀
  
  37 3
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  November 1, 2019 8:21am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  96 false claims last week. You can give us examples of course – maybe just 5 first. If not, the STFU with your TDS bullshit
  
  19 2
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  November 1, 2019 8:52am
- DJ Ward
  
  I think your claim is false!
  
  CNN? please some credibility would be nice.
  
  Stephieboys tally, 1 billion bullshit comments.
  
  22? Was there that many sentences in the interview?
  Who’s the Cabinet leaker?
  Where the false statement claims verified by a credible source? what are they?
  
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  November 1, 2019 10:01am
stephieboy

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
The US biggest private coal mining company ,Murray Energy holdings, goes bust filing for bankruptcy. Even Donald “ bring back coal “ Trump couldn’t save it with his subsidies to keep it floating
.
Director Murray Jones citing renewables and natural gas for the reason it couldn’t keep up with the play,

“Biggest Private Coal Miner Goes Bust as Trump Rescue Fails”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-29/biggest-private-coal-miner-goes-bust-after-trump-rescue-fails
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November 1, 2019 8:18am
- Simon
  
  Dont worry about it the coal is still there and someone else will come along and mine it.
  
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  November 1, 2019 8:40am
  - stephieboy
    
    Simon, without federal subsidies ?
    
    Now joking aside.
    
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    November 1, 2019 10:07am
oldpark

After watching the fake charges levelled against President Trump in America by yes the so called Undemocratic Democratic Party and ever since he threatened to drain the Political corrupt swamp in Washington. From day one the Democratic bullies could not accept President Trump won the 2016 Election.They have been angling for impeachment,just for doing his job.
Seems truth justice and the American way appears to be corruption lies and fake news in that sad sad nation.
The Democrat Party led by a rat bag legal terrorist named Schiff is leading the charge for impeachment aided and abetted by fake news outlets like CNN ,NBC ABC etc etc.
Yes the once proud USA the epitome of justice ,are out to emulate the show trials of North Korea China ,Russia ,Venezuela by attempting to convict
their President with innuendos and lies. All on terms and conditions satisfactory to the Democrats in all respects.
It is little wonder American and their corrupt so called Democrat Politicians are the laughing stock of the free world where truth justice is still a very valuable commodity.
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November 1, 2019 8:22am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Cool story bro. Tell it again.
  
  1 28
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  November 1, 2019 8:29am
  - Simon
    
    “Cool story bro. Tell it again”
    
    MM thought Trump was finished over his returns.
    
    11 2
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    November 1, 2019 9:13am
    - Batman
      
      You never know, the second whistleblower who is apparently reporting illegal interference to keep them hidden may well turn out to be another nail in the impeachment coffin.
      
      2 23
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      November 1, 2019 9:20am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Dream on, another paid, conflicted operative.
        
        9 2
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        November 1, 2019 10:17am
      - Batman
        
        You chumps sound like lefty activists, claiming everyone with a different opinion is a paid shill or operative.
        
        You’ve read too many Tom Clancy novels.
        
        3 15
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        November 1, 2019 10:38am
      - kloyd0306
        
        The transcript made the whistleblowers irrelevant. The only reason that pencil neck Schiff used the whistleblower law was because he never imagined that Trump would release the transcript.
        
        Boom! – Trump wins again! Drain the swamp (of bats).
        
        13 2
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        November 1, 2019 10:22am
      - Batman
        
        That doesn’t address any of the substantive concerns raised by multiple officials in testimony.
        
        So, you can say boom and declare victory but you haven’t actually proven anything.
        
        2 11
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        November 1, 2019 10:30am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Well, the Democrats are indeed carrying out the Plan that Putin devised and gave them. Great “patriots” they are.
    
    9 2
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    November 1, 2019 10:16am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Psychological projection appears to be a core value for Trump and his cultists. See “no puppet, you’re the puppet” or his spawn’s “Why is it that every family goes into politics and enriches themselves?”
      
      1 11
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      November 1, 2019 10:49am
    - Paulus
      
      It has put Biden out of the running for the Dem Party leadership.
      Sanders is back as lead with Anderson next.
      Biden at four I understand.
      
      3 1
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      November 1, 2019 2:06pm
- Simon
  
  Yep the Dems aided by MSM are tearing themselves apart. Trump, because of democracy, will sail along and the only resort open to the left will be violence.
  
  It will get violent as the left make-believe the smears against Trump but in reality the left cant accept the will of the people.
  
  15 2
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  November 1, 2019 8:48am
  - Batman
    
    I think you’re confusing the left with the hard-trump right which openly talks about civil war and violence, including Trump himself.
    
    Projection is a wonderful psychological giveaway.
    
    2 26
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    November 1, 2019 8:56am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Uhuh
      Now do Antifa
      
      14 2
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      November 1, 2019 9:09am
    - Simon
      
      Lol there was no violence when Obama was elected twice. The left shat themselves when Trump was elected.
      
      Just watch next year Comrade. The violent left vs the will of the people.
      
      18 2
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      November 1, 2019 9:10am
      - Batman
        
        Yeah, definitely the left (who peacefully protested) and not the hard right militias…
        
        https://www.lawfareblog.com/armed-militias-are-taking-trumps-civil-war-tweets-seriously
        
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        November 1, 2019 9:22am
      - stephieboy
        
        The deluded far right Oath keepers militia still in action there to intervene in case Trump is impeached.
        
        Well, well so much for the rule of law!
        
        1 17
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        November 1, 2019 10:09am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Lawfare, hahaha – leading the charge against Trump and paid by foreign money to do so !
        
        10 1
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        November 1, 2019 10:18am
      - Jack5
        
        Trump’s policies on immigration must have been a blow to ? Stephiestan. ?
        
        9 2
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        November 1, 2019 10:26am
- igm
  
  Oldpark: Pity the PTPM and its cohorts did not read your posting . . . it is so representative of them.
  
  8 2
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  November 1, 2019 8:50am
freethinker

Watching Judith Collins and willie jackson on TV3 today, willies defence of twyford was idiotic and Collins comment that twyford was a great asset to National so true with willie a great second place as his nasty bias shows through so clearly.
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November 1, 2019 8:25am
Happychappy

Winston Peter’s starts his vendetta against MSD, Paula Bennett, Ann Tolley and others over the release of detail from his Pension overplayed which were in his words purposely released at the last Election.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2019/11/01/887778/peters-day-job-on-hold-as-he-sues-the-crown
This leech blames everyone except himself for his poor book keeping and ignoring a letter asking him to check the details on his Pension that needed to be confirmed. I hope the public take note of this and if he loses penalize’s him and his party with there vote at the next Election.
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November 1, 2019 8:33am
- alex Masterley
  
  It is interesting that the Nats haven’t settled this one. Peter Kiely and others must be pretty confident they can bat WP’s claim away.
  WP won’t be able to deny deflect or abuse his questioners in the court room. There is no place to hide when you are in the witness box, and no-one can help you.
  
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  November 1, 2019 9:01am
  - peterwn
    
    I would not be too surprised if he gives up on Ann and Paula. They cannot be culpable for merely receiving the ‘no surprises’ information and he could find it difficult to show on the balance of probabilities that they or their staffs were the cause of the leak.
    Anyway it is not a bad thing that their lawyer will be there adding another dimension to the case. Nat’s lawyer could have a field day questioning Winston and Barry Soper.
    Pity the trial is not on TV.
    
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    November 1, 2019 9:11am
  - sooty
    
    Can they have a courtcase without Whinestone been called to the box?
    
    4 0
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    November 1, 2019 9:32am
    - peterwn
      
      Yes. However this is a civil, not criminal case so the judge is allow to draw adverse inferences if Winston declined to take the stand. Anyway if Winston did not take the stand in this instance the case would be like rabbit stew without the rabbit.
      
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      November 1, 2019 10:26am
      - alex Masterley
        
        WP is the plaintiff.
        He has to adduce evidence to prove his case, especially the damage arising from the loss of privacy.
        His witness statment would make interesting reading.
        
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        November 1, 2019 11:04am
- Yvette
  
  Of interest may be –
  
  1 – Far as I can tell no one ever released “personal details” in this matter, more than those “details” that Winston Peters himself voluntarily gave in reply to questions.
  
  2 – Winston’s behaviour in repaying the amount and penalties due within 24 hours was exemplary, compared to the mess Metiria Turei had confessed to, so it is is inconceivable as “damaging” to him in Election campaigning.
  
  3 – Any “damages” were and still are surely of Winston’s own doing – his unfounded accusations against Government agencies, his witch-hunt for “leakers’, his legal action on the eve of Election negotiations, and his changing story throughout .
  I trust the judge treats him in the same way as Colin Craig, when Craig was told his “damages” were his own doing.
  
  4 – the case may reveal what advice the Solicitor General gave those who passed on the incidence of the matter to Ministers, as being of public interest – as indeed Winston’s actions have confirmed over 796 days – shit: 2 years, 2 months and 5 days already
  
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  November 1, 2019 9:45am
  - SJ Actual
    
    It’s good that he repaid the money swiftly, but surely after so many years of taking more than he was entitled to there should have been some interest or penalty payments for him to make too.
    
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    November 1, 2019 11:05am
- Michael
  
  A vote for NZF is a vote for Labour and therefore a vote for the Watermelons (Greens).
  
  Don’t vote for any of them.
  
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  November 1, 2019 9:59am
Fletch

It looks like the name of the CIA “whistleblower” in the Ukraine case has been figured out.

https://www.redstate.com/elizabeth-vaughn/2019/10/31/may-introduce-young-man-believed-tried-remove-sitting-president-pssst-also-tried-interfere-2016-election/
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November 1, 2019 8:41am
- Ed Snack
  
  Been known for weeks, he’s a Brennan operative and is likely to go down, hard.
  
  10 1
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  November 1, 2019 10:20am
Maggie Pie

Somebody was telling us last night that the winner of last years ‘Miss Texas 2018 Pageant’, was in fact a beautiful African-American girl by the name of…. Jizyah Shorts.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIJA9AUW4AABvz5?format=jpg&name=small

I googled and it’s absolutely true!! 😛
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November 1, 2019 8:44am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  A victim of “Funny-name syndrome” it seems.
  
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  November 1, 2019 9:15am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My partner never believed it till i showed him the pic …….then he did.
    
    LOL!!
    
    9 1
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    November 1, 2019 9:29am
- Swifty
  
  Oh er….
  
  4 0
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  November 1, 2019 9:18am
hullkiwi

It seems the price of being in coalition with NZF for Labour is to alienate your Indian supporter base. As reported this morning on RNZ members of the Indian community who have are members or have supported Labour are upset with new immigration policies re. bringing in brides for arranged marriages and parents on family visas. Oh dear….the price of coalition….

They are also unhappy that Shane Jones was able to say what he did on the matter without sanction from the smiling Jacinda.

Oh dear how sad never mind, it is not before time that these aspects of our immigration laws were tightened and properly applied. For all there whinging, where do they think they are going to go with their support…the Greens?
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November 1, 2019 8:46am
- niggly
  
  Hear that and a woman Indian Labour politician (or aspiring Labour politician) saying it’s not Labour’s fault – it is the fault of “the coalition” (with NZF).
  
  Meethinks what a sell out, as who is charge here? Yes it is Labour – they are the majority party! But they have a weak leader (Ardern) who won’t do anything about Jones or NZF. So Labour need to be held accountable for their gutlessness and stop blaming others – Labour are enabling this!
  
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  November 1, 2019 9:22am
JibberJabber

Willie Jackson, once again on the AM show this morn, proving the old adage “better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt.”
33 0
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November 1, 2019 8:46am
- hullkiwi
  
  The next Minister of Transport in waiting then?
  
  16 0
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  November 1, 2019 9:05am
kevn

One must laugh at parrotboy (aka septicboy) linking like crazy.
TDS at it finest.
18 2
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November 1, 2019 8:53am
alex Masterley

Just had fire engines blast (as much as you can blast in rush hour) past the office heading towards Newmarket where some smoke had been spotted belching from the new mall.
First thought was here we go again, but fortunately for all concerned it as a false alarm. Turned out to be generator exhaust.
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November 1, 2019 8:57am
Maggie Pie

With only a couple of months till Christmas, I wonder if Hannah will be out eyeing up a new Merc for herself 😀

The 13th Apostle tweets:

https://twitter.com/BishopTamaki/status/1189987922587439104
9 1
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November 1, 2019 9:09am
- Batman
  
  The GLA is proving very popular with the cashed up Boomer set. Still an SUV but easier to get in and out of.
  
  I’m sure Hannah will opt for the GLA 45 AMG. Fully specced of course!
  
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  November 1, 2019 9:23am
lastmanstanding

Some random questions.
1. Is the great Climate Change Hoax the work of the Left and the Right.

2. Is it the Left being the communist and socialist countries that make up most of the UN and the Right multinational companies and organisations.

3. Is the Left wanting to move vast numbers of people from “bad” countries to “good “countries like NZ.

4. Is it the Right wanting to break down borders so they can trade without any national interference.

5. Is the outcome that NZ will lose its identity and eventually become known as Area 156.
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November 1, 2019 9:12am
- mikenmildagain
  
  No, no, no, no, and maybe, but Aotearoa seems a more likely choice.
  
  1 18
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  November 1, 2019 9:31am
  - Jack5
    
    Milky, still more likely future name for what is now New Zealand:
    
    新西兰
    
    Translated into English characters, something like
    
    Xīnxilan
    
    That, of course is based on the sound of “New Zealand”.
    
    Thank you, Google Translate
    
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    November 1, 2019 9:43am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Quite possible. After all, we’ve already had Raymond Huo translating Labour’s “Let’s do it” slogan to match one of Xi Jinping’s sayings.
      
      1 9
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      November 1, 2019 10:46am
- Paginus
  
  Yes the left and right are different sides of the same globalist coin. That’s why Nationalism is the future.
  
  7 2
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  November 1, 2019 9:50am
- stephieboy
  
  2. Is it the Left being the communist and socialist countries that make up most of the UN and the Right multinational companies and organisations.
  
  Are you including Russia and the Eastern bloc post 1991?
  
  3. Is the Left wanting to move vast numbers of people from “bad” countries to “good “countries like NZ.
  
  Refer past National Party immigation policy which like the present oen is colour and ethnic blind
  
  2 20
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  November 1, 2019 10:15am
- pb
  
  Yep. Left and Right are gatekeepers for globo’s, and in many ways are the same. Authoritarian bullies. Large businesses have largely been infected by socialism through HR departments pushing hard left agendas.
  
  A subdued atomized depressed people are good consumer slaves. Bugmen & ghosts. Ripe for good balance sheet returns.
  
  Globo’s hate Christian culture. The Christian culture of strong families. They hate those who would dare apply true Conservative agendas and defend their people against the four “mortal sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance”: Usury, abortion, crimes against the poor, sodomy.
  
  Hence these are the favourite attack points against christian culture around the world. This attack is driving the nationalist revival. Engarde!
  
  5 3
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  November 1, 2019 11:04am
Hugh Pavletich

NEW ZEALAND HOUSING … EXISTING STOCKS SUBDUED … AS NEW BUILDS ROAR AHEAD …

New residential property listings on Realestate.co.nz at an all time low for the month of October … Greg Ninness … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/102385/new-residential-property-listings-realestateconz-all-time-low-month-october

The latest figures from property website Realestate.co.nz suggest the housing market remained subdued in October with fewer vendors putting properties on the market.

The website received 10,235 new residential listings in October, up 15% compared to September but down 17.1% compared to October last year.

That was the lowest total number of new listings the website has ever received in the month of October and the downward trend was nationwide. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
Months of September residential consents / approvals up 31% … Statistics NZ …

Most regions showing double digit annual growth in new dwelling consents … Greg Ninness … Interest Co NZ

https://www.interest.co.nz/property/102371/most-regions-showing-double-digit-annual-growth-new-dwelling-consents

Strong growth in the number of new dwelling consents continued unabated in September, with 3347 new consents issued in the month, up 30.8% compared to September last year, according to Statistics NZ. … read more via hyperlink above …
.
.
… AND AUSTRALIA GOING IN THE OTHER DIRECTION … WITH THE NEW BUILD COLLAPSE …

Australia’s high-rise apartment crash goes from bad to worse … Leith van Onselen … MacroBusiness Australia

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2019/11/australias-high-rise-apartment-crash-goes-from-bad-to-worse/

Yesterday, the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) released its dwelling approvals data for September, which revealed that dwelling approvals nationally have crashed by 35% in trend terms from the March 2015 peak, driven by a mammoth 54% decline in unit and apartment approvals: … read more via hyperlink above …
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November 1, 2019 9:16am
- Hugh Pavletich
  
  Home consents up 50% nationally in 5 years, doubled in Auckland … Bob Dey Property News
  
  https://www.propbd.co.nz/home-consents-up-50-nationally-in-5-years-doubled-in-auckland/?
  
  Building consents were issued for 3347 new homes in September (up 31% from 2559 in September last year), taking the annual tally to 36,446 (up 12% from 32,548 in the previous 12 months).
  
  In Auckland, 1143 consents were issued in September (up 34% from 854 in September last year), and 14,634 over 12 months (up 13% from 12,945).
  
  The rate of consents has increased by 50% nationally from the 24,139 issued 5 years ago, and has doubled in Auckland, from 7403 in the September 2014 year … read more via hyperlink above …
  
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  November 1, 2019 12:44pm
niggly

I briefly caught a radio news story yesterday in which James Shaw was gloating about new compliance regulations being introduced on farmers/farming whereby they need to assess and record all stock emissions levels for environmental planning purposes.

I can’t seem to locate any online stories to clarify the facts and the intent of these measures … but at first hearing it seemed to me to be a load of unnecessary regulatory f*ckwittery (typical of the Watermelons), causing extra workload and stress for farmers and all for what – to employ yet more unproductive bureaucratic jobsworths in Wellington who will be sent out in fleets of Govt environmentally destructive EV vehicles to wag their fingers at farmers and slap more fines on them?

When is this bureaucratic nonsense (in the name of a mountain of BS called CC) going to end? When we have more farmers committing suicide (see RNZ Morning Report this morning).

National and ACT should go hard on this regulatory rubbish and tell the COL and Jimmy Shaw not to waste their time because National/ACT will repeal this nonsense and consign it to where it belongs which is in the dust bin!
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November 1, 2019 9:16am
- Yvette
  
  Niggly, there are several stories ranging from Ardern’s address on Climate Change at the UN, to comment in the Guardian, UK, for their international audience, to local items that mention that if agriculture is included in the ETS in 2025, after a progress review in 2022, there will be a 95% discount, which Ardern in her UN address and the Guardian too, both failed to mention.
  
  I guess if she found out Greta would be slightly livid, as should be every climate-emergency school-child demonstrator in New Zealand.
  
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  November 1, 2019 10:12am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  From 2025, all Farms will have to calculate their greenhouse gas emissions…
  
  all outlined here:
  https://beeflambnz.com/sites/default/files/Primary%20Sector%20Climate%20Change%20Commitment.pdf
  
  8 0
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  November 1, 2019 10:13am
  - Jack5
    
    First they snuff out the oil and gas industries, then coal mining (while importing it from Indonesia), then they go after farming. Our biggest (by far) industrial exporter, aluminium smelting, will be next.
    
    Kamikaze Melon Greens will put New Zealand on an economic par with Tonga and Samoa.
    
    Perhaps there will be suburbs of Honky refugees in Apia.
    
    20 0
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    November 1, 2019 10:20am
  - cmm
    
    Great, even more form filling for farmers.
    
    How long until you need to register your backyard compost heap?
    
    11 1
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    November 1, 2019 11:00am
- cmm
  
  James Shaw is not a “nice guy”.
  
  He is a nasty person, enabling other nasty people.
  
  12 0
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  November 1, 2019 2:13pm
Biscuit

Tres disappointing to come into Kiwiblog at 9.55am on a Friday morning and find that not a SINGLE post has been made about New Zealand’s third straight appearance in – and, of course, likely third straight win in) the Rugby World Cup Final…

You’d almost think I’d missed something…
7 4
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November 1, 2019 9:54am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Come on Bikkie – it’s like my partner sez:
  “Winners are grinners. There is no second place”
  
  11 2
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  November 1, 2019 10:32am
  - Biscuit
    
    :: Sits and continues sticking pins into his Owen Farrell doll ::
    
    5 0
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    November 1, 2019 11:24am
- mikenmildagain
  
  What are you talking about – it’s the cricket season. 20/20 international: NZ vs England, Hagley Park, 2 pm today.
  
  5 3
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  November 1, 2019 10:38am
rjay

An interesting take on Trumps strategy in Syria. Leave Putin to pick up the pieces and risk being the friend of ones enemy. A no win spot. Trump wins the strategic game again.
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-10-25/trump-outsmarts-putin-with-syria-retreat
14 1
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November 1, 2019 10:21am
Maggy Wassilieff

I wonder who will be disseminating misinformation.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/402155/plans-to-combat-misinformation-in-election-year-referendum-debates
11 0
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November 1, 2019 10:39am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Pretty much anyone in favour of, or opposed to, each question.
  
  2 8
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  November 1, 2019 10:43am
  - sooty
    
    You just know it will be the woke left shooting down anything the right says as a means to boost labours numbers!
    
    5 0
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    November 1, 2019 11:39am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    The problem is that Little’s ministry of Truth then gets to dictate what’s “truth” or not. He says that they will not be biased but no reasonable person could expect bias to not show up. The simplest example is road deaths for weed. It can’t be proven that an increase in road deaths was caused by legalisation so does that argument get treated as false?
    
    6 1
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    November 1, 2019 11:54am
- Swifty
  
  We will tell you what to think……..
  
  8 0
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  November 1, 2019 11:54am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  They should call it the Ministry of Truth.
  
  5 0
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  November 1, 2019 12:09pm
Maggy Wassilieff

More on measles:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/oct/31/measles-wipes-out-immune-systems-memory-study-finds

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/117079712/samoa-measles-epidemic-immunologist-furious-at-new-zealand
11 0
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November 1, 2019 11:21am
- srylands
  
  It’s pathetic that we are imposing this risk on a poor nation like Samoa.
  
  7 5
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  November 1, 2019 12:18pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    We are not imposing anything on Samoa. They have a duty to guard their own borders.
    
    5 0
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    November 1, 2019 1:58pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  A case of reckless outspokeness. The 1918 pandemic is irrelevant–our mandate over civil government then in Samoa did not stretch to managing the virulence of a global microbiological attack which also killed my grandmother here in NZ. Misfortune. Some people never grow up they enjoy beating themselves up over others past woes.
  
  Samoa is a sovereign state. If they were concerned about measles they were capable of closing their borders to NZ arrivals. NZ is not an exporter of measles not do we send ambassadors carrying measles to affect their population.
  We cannot prove anyone is free of the possible disease before departure except by an extensive prior quarantine period. It is up to Samoa to impose those prior checks.
  
  5 0
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  November 1, 2019 1:57pm
- cmm
  
  Ok, how much is Whitey Guilt going to cost us this time?
  
  7 1
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  November 1, 2019 2:11pm
Jack5

What happens in a country without a liberal, piss-weak immigration policy …

A bikie gang leader in Canberra is being deported to New Zealand, and his trial for charges including assault and bomb-making has been called off.

Australia’s Home Affairs Minister, Peter Dutton, says 250 bikies have now been kicked out of Australia – presumably sent to New Zealand.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/canberra-bikie-boss-booted-from-australia-20191031-p536aj.html
15 0
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November 1, 2019 11:24am
- sooty
  
  Could have at least given him some jail time!
  You know like a going away present!
  
  7 0
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  November 1, 2019 12:34pm
- Jack5
  
  Meanwhile, NZ continues its push-over immigration policy. Lees-Galloway caves in to Indian activists on bringing in spouses.
  
  Next it will be extended families. J.Peters and Co. will once again go along with this.
  
  NZ really discriminates against Indians. That’s why you don’t see any.
  
  I don’t mind, except I know that, eventually, multiculturism will see Australia close its back door to New Zealanders – including our grandchildren.
  
  7 0
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  November 1, 2019 1:42pm
burt

Is the Labour Youth camp predator who was staunchly protected for as long as possible being sentenced today ?

What are the chances he will get permanent name suppression to make sure we don’t get to know why he was so staunchly protected?
21 0
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November 1, 2019 11:27am
- srylands
  
  I’d say the chances are pretty good. ?
  
  13 0
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  November 1, 2019 12:17pm
  - sooty
    
    ,,,
    
    1 0
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    November 1, 2019 12:39pm
- krazykiwi
  
  What are the implication of permanent name suppression? If granted, does slimy perp still need to disclose his conviction to potential employers?
  
  7 0
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  November 1, 2019 12:34pm
  - igm
    
    Another reason not to vote Labour, Green, NZ1.
    
    4 2
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    November 1, 2019 1:55pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    if the perps’ offences are relevant to the employment.
    
    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/bosses-right-know-about-court-cases
    
    7 0
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    November 1, 2019 2:34pm
- igm
  
  Maybe someone will start dropping pamphlets identifying him in public places if he is not named.
  This lifelong suppression of name was accorded an ex-Labour MP who went on sucking off the public trough even though he was convicted of dishonesty.
  It bloody stinks and should be exposed.
  
  9 1
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  November 1, 2019 1:44pm
srylands

Surely euthanasia is the only rational course here.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/117061092/notorious-killer-stephen-williams-sentenced-for-attempted-murder-of-fellow-inmate
6 1
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November 1, 2019 12:16pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  How come this is not flagged for Deletion?
  
  1 1
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  November 1, 2019 7:01pm
DJ Ward

Meanwhile in Dem LaLa Land, a female questioner “stated” to a witness that they where a white supremacist racist bigot, to which they objected, stating they where not. Claiming such a comment, not a question, was defamatory.

The female then claimed it wasn’t defamatory.

Cortez now looks like the intelligent Dem who never lies.
Good to see Obama tell an audience present Dem strategy is flawed.
5 1
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November 1, 2019 12:59pm
igm

What will Little, Davis, and Ardern conjure up to release this lovely Labour-supporting unfortunate result from nine years of National neglect?
3 1
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November 1, 2019 1:42pm
- igm
  
  Forgot once again:
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/117061092/notorious-killer-stephen-williams-sentenced-for-attempted-murder-of-fellow-inmate
  
  2 1
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  November 1, 2019 3:30pm
surfing

Anyone following the current changes around school funding and optional activities like school camps and trips?

From now, schools can’t directly ask parents for money for things like camps and educational trips. So, school camps might go the way of the dodo.

And because our primary school is high decile, government assumes parents donate more… not true at our school, only 40% of parents pay the donation so the school is going to be severely underfunded from next year.

It is odd though, because schools are not exactly flush with cash, and government is cutting out the funding that schools previously relied upon to deliver a very basic education.

Although, schools spending up on computers and ipads is not a great idea in my view.
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November 1, 2019 1:55pm
- Sacha
  
  Maybe parents could take their kids on educational trips, the way they did before schools decided to take over.
  
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  November 1, 2019 8:01pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Hey Stupidboy, still waiting for your examples of Trump’s 96 false claims (lies) from last week. What is the holdup? or does your lack of response mean that you are so full of shit?
15 5
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November 1, 2019 2:36pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Did you have trouble reading the article he linked in his comment?
  
  1 3
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  November 1, 2019 8:14pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It’s CNN Mike. You expect me to read their shit? They have as much credibility as stupidboy, and you for that matter. Page has been removed now, that’s how reliable they are
    
    1 0
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    November 2, 2019 9:18am
Swifty

It’s PSMs and their lovely PSF counterparts who built the foundations of modern society in this land, and from which springs every comfort that we, including her and her ‘woke’ associates, now enjoy, which Verity Johnson lays a great steaming turd on:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/life/117052409/what-happens-when-a-feminist-feels-sorry-for-pale-stale-males

I feel sorry for Verity – in that she is clearly too young or vacuous to really understand both her history or how much she takes for granted.

She’ll hopefully learn….
5 0
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November 1, 2019 4:47pm
Wired-one

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117086660/public-housing-waitlist-nears-14000-with-recordhigh

I did not see the 6pm news tonight, but i’m guessing this was the main story? and Ardern was taken to task from various journalists right?…
6 0
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November 1, 2019 6:29pm
Happychappy

How can the Prime Minister and Jan Logie from the Greens stand up and call out sexual assaults and violence when they both stood back and did nothing for the young members of workers in Parliament that were assaulted by a friend and vital member of Labours re-election team.The Greens never commented on the sexual assaults and Jacinda has come up with several bullshit stories to cover hers and Grant Robertson involvement and now comes out with condemnation of the figures in the the results of how many tech the courts and how many convictions are achieved.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/117096665/majority-of-sexual-violence-incidents-reported-to-police-are-children-or-young-people
6 0
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November 1, 2019 6:52pm
- MrTips
  
  THIS 100%. I noticed that. What a pack of hypocrites. And the media just complies and looks the other way.
  
  Bastards the lot of them.
  
  5 0
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  November 1, 2019 7:56pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh Gracious… that was so last season..
  we’ve moved on…. besides we are only to be concerned about sexual abuse when its nasty right-wing christians and powerful men that are the perpetrators.
  
  5 0
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  November 1, 2019 8:24pm
rightoverlabour

Lefty twats ( UK ones)

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/watch-labour-mp-slams-green-leader-for-mansplaining/
2 0
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November 1, 2019 7:00pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Our PM is jetting off overseas (again)
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/11/more-than-a-third-of-new-zealanders-think-jacinda-ardern-is-too-overseas-focused.html
5 0
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November 1, 2019 7:05pm
- Sacha
  
  People wouldn’t mind her overseas trips if they felt that she had everything under control here at home. A competent team of ministers would help too.
  
  1 0
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  November 1, 2019 8:32pm
- sooty
  
  She can’t complain about been called part time because she is!
  
  0 0
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  November 1, 2019 8:36pm
rightoverlabour

How come I have to find this out on an international site?

https://watchers.news/2019/10/31/increased-activity-at-white-island-volcano-new-zealand/
2 1
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November 1, 2019 7:41pm
mikenmildagain

Perhaps because it’s a non-story.
1 5
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November 1, 2019 8:10pm
- rightoverlabour
  
  Possibly a non-story to Lefty Twats. However, those who are interested in scientific developments, and especially those that suggest a link between enhanced volcanic activity and solar minima, and subsequent impacts on cooling climates, it’s definitely a story.
  
  2 1
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  November 1, 2019 8:50pm
rightoverlabour

Now if you ask a child why it’s hot, they may say because the sun is shining. And why it’s cold and crappy, probably because it’s cloudy. If you ask IPCC twats (and The Greta) it’s because of CO2 changes. Now some Russian scientist (in a Peer-reviewed Journal Article no less!) has declared that the child is mostly right…. and the IPCC have no fucking idea.

http://joannenova.com.au/2019/11/new-study-settles-it-global-warming-and-the-pause-was-driven-by-changes-in-cloud-cover-not-co2/
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November 1, 2019 9:05pm

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