General Debate 08 May 2020

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krazykiwi

The evidence of the extent of Covid-19 fearmongering and over-reaction continues apace. Some links below. Before that though, I’ve been analysing the UK’s Office of National Statistics weekly mortality data and can confirm that excess deaths not attributable to Covid-19 are starting to accumulate. Using the 5 year average as a baseline, and deducting deaths ‘attributed’* to Covid-19 from this reveals that 2,500 more people have died over the [latest reported] 4 weeks ending 24th April than would have been expected based on the 5 year average. This is evidence that the lockdown is, quite literally, killing people.

Now, back to what the evidence is pointing to re our government’s haste to violate our civil liberties:

☑ A new overview of existing PCR and antibody studies shows that the median value of Covid19 lethality (IFR) is about 0.2% and thus in the range of a strong influenza.

☑ German virologist Hendrik Streeck explains the final results of his pioneering antibody study. Professor Streeck found a Covid19 lethality of 0.36%, but explains that this is an upper limit and the lethality is probably in the range of 0.24 to 0.26% or even below. The average age of test-positive deceased was approximately 81 years.

☑ A new antibody study with Danish blood donors showed a very low Covid19 lethality (IFR) of 0.08% for persons under 70 years of age.

☑ A new antibody study from Iran, one of the earliest and most affected countries by Covid19, also showed a very low lethality of 0.08% to 0.12%.

☑ The emeritus microbiology professor Sucharit Bhakdi explains in a new German interview that politics and the media have been conducting an “intolerable fear-mongering” and an “irresponsible disinformation campaign”.

☑ A new antibody study from Japan comes to the conclusion that about 400 to 800 times more people there had contact with the new coronavirus than previously thought, but showed no or hardly any symptoms.

So …. lost your job, business, life savings, dignity, social connectedness? Yes, Ardern government’s response to what amount to a bad flu has done this to you, and to those you love.

*UK parliament rushed legislative changes so that Covid-19 could be claimed as the cause of death if only suspected, ie without testing. This can also now be done by a medical professional other than the deceased’s doctor, and no autopsy is required as is the case with other infectious diseases. In short, there’s so much less paperwork if the patient can be deemed to have died because of Covid-19.
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May 8, 2020 8:00am
- krazykiwi
  
  Edit: It’s 2,500 excess, non-Covid deaths per week over the last 4 weeks.
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:22am
  - MrTips
    
    You should write a guest post on that mortality data KK. It’s too important to not be documented.
    
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    May 8, 2020 8:32am
    - PhilBest
      
      I’m unsure what DPF’s motivations are in running this blog, given the absence of frequent reportage on his part, of these important realities. But yes, some guest posters could remedy this.
      
      This link is a valuable resource for any guest poster who wants to keep this blog up to date:
      
      https://swprs.org/a-swiss-doctor-on-covid-19/
      
      [Mod: If DPF doesn’t publish what you want Phil, why not start your own blog; you certainly have plenty of material]
      
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      May 8, 2020 9:13am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        You are kidding, right? Every day, the General Debate thread is overrun with amateur epidemiology. One thing Kiwiblog is not lacking is continuous ramblings about Covid-19.
        
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        May 8, 2020 9:49am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        And yet here you are mike. Do you have goals in life? Are you loved? Do you hurt, mike? Your psychology is fascinating.
        
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        May 8, 2020 9:59am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @mikenmildagain
        
        “Every day, the mass media is overrun with amateur non factual epidemiology, being used as a political football by fear mongering politicians.”
        
        There, fixed it for you.
        
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        May 8, 2020 11:39am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Yes, possibly. Another thing, if the UK lockdown, arguably less stringent than ours, has resulted in >2500 excess, non-Covid deaths per week, then on a population basis with NZ having ~7.3% of the UK’s population, then we could expect to be experiencing ~182 excess, non-Covid death per week in New Zealand. There are other environmental factors to consider, but many of the job loss, isolation, withheld medial care conditions are the same.
      
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      May 8, 2020 10:09am
      - rangitoto
        
        We will never know as Cindy’s mob are hiding the data.
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:51am
- mjw
  
  I dunno about that. The death rate from COVID19 in the UK is looking far worse than what happened in The Blitz. The total hasn’t quite caught up yet (depending on which estimates you use). But it will in a week or two and then it will just keep on going.
  
  Meanwhile the USA, Brazil, Sweden – all looking really bad. In New York, the death rate is over 1300 per million – and that in just a couple of months!
  
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  May 8, 2020 9:02am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    On a state by state basis,in the USA, Democrat run states have about 75% of the covid 19 deaths, while going into full lock down similar to here.
    But Republican states represent 55% of the pop. of the USA and largely had less stringent methods. (only 25% of covid19 deaths).
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:16am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Hardly surprising. The Democractic votes tends to be based in the large cities, where population density is a lot higher.
      
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      May 8, 2020 12:51pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Why it’s almost as is a smart lockdown makes more sense.
        
        You know, where the vulnerable people and locations are closely controlled and, ooh say the NZ backblocks didn’t need the same treatment.
        
        But no full lockdown and a trashed economy clearly made more sense to our dimwitted government.
        
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        May 8, 2020 1:24pm
  - PhilBest
    
    As that guy Professor Michael Levitt pointed out, it is possible to estimate the final death toll once you see a pattern of reduction in new daily deaths. And we are more than halfway to the total virtually everywhere.
    
    Lockdowns just slow it down, the idea of “flattening the curve” always recognised that.
    
    Epicentres do get a higher level of deadliness, always because they were LATE recognising any risk at all. People scared into distancing early on, is what makes the difference. Lockdown only has a minimal effect on the ultimate outcome. Either the action is too late anyway, or it was largely superfluous.
    
    https://infekt.ch/2020/04/sind-wir-tatsaechlich-im-blindflug/
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:22am
    - mjw
      
      Yeah, I wish we were more than halfway to the total. But actually, we are just halfway towards the total of the first wave. Once restrictions are lifted, most places will see a second wave in a few months.
      
      If mortality is 0.5% including all undiagnosed cases, expect to see 1 million deaths in the US for example. And they won’t all be old people. 🙁
      
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      May 8, 2020 10:06am
      - PhilBest
        
        This is prophecy, not knowledge.
        
        What is true is that most viruses tend to be around forever, infecting a few people and killing some, without any major publicity. I fear that these perfectly normal few deaths are now, in the case of COVID-19, going to be interpreted as “second waves” and used to justify lockdowns, perhaps even permanently. After all, look how easily Kiwis have been suckered into thinking 20 deaths was the alternative to “thousands of deaths” rather than “what was going to happen anyway” down here in a balmy summertime southern hemisphere clean green paradise.
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:44am
- theoldbloke
  
  In defense of Team Panic.
  This information was not available in Mid March.
  
  So they relied on some computer modelling commission to show worst case scenario.
  
  However. They should not continue with the charade. Accept that the “”rules have changed””.
  And get the country back to Level 1.
  
  However, that would not look good for the Princess Jacinda saving 80,000 lives fairystory going in to the election.
  
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  May 8, 2020 1:46pm
dave_c_

I hope everyone saw Kelvin Davis eviscerated on the Henry show last night.
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May 8, 2020 8:00am
- SmokerGuy
  
  It’s unbelievable someone as incompetent as this guy is so high up in the government (we all know why). Shame on them!
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:31am
  - Simon
    
    (we all know why)
    
    Is it because Davis’s only qualification is that he is a well connected Maori? Identify politics over anything else.
    
    Davis there for the feelz but he isn’t allowed near any sharp objects.
    
    Or is it because Davis is so incompetent he is Labo number 2 so that Cindy can feel safe from any leadership coup.
    
    Or is it Davis lack of morals? Ardern covered for a rapist and he is ok with that.
    
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    May 8, 2020 8:51am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      or is Davis the most competent available man for the job?
      What does that say about the rest of the caucus?
      Scary stuff.
      
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      May 8, 2020 9:18am
  - tui47
    
    Labour supporters don’t care how bad Davis is. They will simply blame that mean nasty Paul Henry for questioning him. Most may not actually be able to see the incompetence as it will simply go over their heads. The understand Jacinda because she speaks directly to them using basic language they understand.
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:01am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      “They understand Jacinda because she lies directly to them using basic language they understand.”
      There….fixed it for ya.
      
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      May 8, 2020 9:19am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Dumbed down?
      
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      May 9, 2020 11:07am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Give the brown feller some easy portfolio where he can’t fuck it up.
    
    Oh…
    
    Or if you prefer: shiny beads for the natives
    
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    May 8, 2020 1:26pm
- Littletramp
  
  The problem is that these Labour cabinet ministers are watching their PM get on TV each day and just make stuff up on the hoof, then reverse the call when public opinion goes against her. How can they be expected to be decisive in that environment? They have got no footing to make any long term calls.
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:51am
  - Simon
    
    Tourism took a big hit early in February and crashed and burnt by March.
    
    What have these clowns in Ministry of Tourism, including Davis, been doing since February? It is now May.
    
    Ministry of Tourism, (part of MBIE) huge budget, huge salaries but have come with nothing after more than 3 months. It aint easy but that their bloody job. If normal people paid huge salaries after 3 months would have come up with something.
    
    Ministry of Tourism might as well close it down. Worse than useless.
    
    Tourism ministry Part of ministry of “business innovation & employment” Joke
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:00am
    - Ruawai
      
      To be fair there is nothing that can fix tourism when we have not tourists but at least they could have been making some sort of plan to help the workers and business owners.
      
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      May 8, 2020 9:09am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Simon is probably expecting the Ministry of Tourism to set up and run some tourism businesses, or make some other centralised intervention in the market…
        
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        May 8, 2020 9:51am
      - Simon
        
        “To be fair there is nothing that can fix tourism”
        
        Not sure it was always about planning or else close Ministry down.
        
        Its May and people like Mikeagain are all confused. He is reduced to mere speculation which shows how useless the Tourism minister & the people who work there are.
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:10am
      - Simon
        
        Interview here. Mikeagin hope this helps with your with your confusion.
        
        https://twitter.com/nznfreez/status/1258497606272946176
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:19am
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        Its coming, looking at flights from Melbourne, Sydney and Gold Coast, July 1 direct flights to Auckland SYD 13, MEB 10, OOL 10.
        To Queenstown SYD 5, MEB 3, OOL 1
        Looks like Winston has got his way, Scomo hinted at this yesterday, the airlines have embraced it.
        You don’t run dozens of flights a day if border closed.
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:23am
    - tf78
      
      Close ATEED at the same time.
      
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      May 8, 2020 10:06am
    - JackRabbit
      
      “Ministry of Tourism might as well close it down.”
      
      Actually that’s a bright idea. No need for a ministry for businesses that no longer exist.
      
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      May 8, 2020 11:42am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Can we get ATEED shut down please?
        
        Still burning through money and hiring staff with no real work to do
        
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        May 8, 2020 1:27pm
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    I hope National are compiling an archive to document all the obfuscation, dissembling and vacillation going on here. It would be a cheap and easy way of producing an election advertising campaign.
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:01am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      I hope National are:
      1. Writing a generalized pandemic plan for the future.
      This will show up just how useless this “response”(panic) has been.
      2. Writing an economic plan to dig us out of this very deep hole this govt. has put us in since 2017.
      
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      May 8, 2020 9:24am
      - Sacha
        
        There IS a pandemic plan. The trouble is, it was laid down by a National Government and therefore ignored by the current Labour ‘government’.
        
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        May 8, 2020 9:58am
      - tf78
        
        I think National wrote the pandemic plan for the Swine flu which was partially instigated with this Newflu.
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:08am
      - MT_Tinman
        
        First, above ALL else National need to be compiling a list of redundancies, if only because as yet, no one else appears to be doing so.
        
        The current list must be quite extensive, Ngai Tahu Tourism, 300+, NZR 50% etc. are some that spring to mind.
        
        If they put that list on every National billboard (updated) without comment they’re shoe-in come September.
        
        As an aside if anyone knows of such a collation please advise.
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:47am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Why would the National Party need to archive Kiwiblog discussion threads?
      
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      May 8, 2020 9:51am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Up and about and down-ticking I see. Before ten o’clock too. Must have shit the bed.
        
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        May 8, 2020 9:57am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Where can I see this?
  
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  May 8, 2020 9:07am
  - Sacha
    
    https://www.health.govt.nz/your-health/healthy-living/emergency-management/pandemic-planning-and-response/influenza-pandemic-plan
    
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    May 8, 2020 10:00am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Thanks Sacha, but I meant the “Davis Incident,” but I’ve seen it now. ?
      
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      May 8, 2020 10:44am
- KevO'Brien
  
  KD deserved it.
  
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  May 8, 2020 10:52am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I thought he did quite well……..for the first 30 seconds, when he talked about how many people he’d been talking to on webinars, and how he’d tasked the Tourism Ministry with coming up with a plan.
  
  I thought “good on you Kelvin, now that you’ve consulted widely, and got all the facts and figures, and looked at the options, you’ll tell us what the plan is.”
  
  Umm, err, ahh, no. What we got was excruciating. He forgot his talking points, was exposed mercilessly by Henry (who is a capable interviewer, no more), and put up the sort of shambolic performance that will see him back into witless protection until after the 2020 campaign.
  
  Seems like a nice guy, hopelessly out of his depth. Deputy Labour Leader? Mate, you’re dreamin’.
  
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  May 8, 2020 12:57pm
andrew davies

A must watch on Bidens incredible hypocrisy
https://youtu.be/pKPbsZ33Fmg
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May 8, 2020 8:00am
- Simon
  
  Trump will running against the Dem’s VP pick. Joe will still be in his basement for another 8 months.
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:40am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Hypocrisy? A Democrat? No way bro.
  
  https://twitter.com/RepJoeKennedy/status/1173986267522043906
  
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  May 8, 2020 9:04am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    But wait, there’s more…
    https://twitter.com/kelseybolar/status/1258134102533955588
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:17am
Captain Mainwaring

Poor old Kelvinator. He didn’t stand a chance against Paul Henry. It was like a blast furnace versus a fridge.
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May 8, 2020 8:01am
- BobbyS
  
  Soundbites was all he could offer
  As for “he engaged with 5000 people in webinars” that is utter BS
  So he attended a few webinars in which possibly up to 5000 participated? Big difference to actually “engaging” with them
  He is and has always been one of the weakest Ministers and how the hell was he picked for Deputy leader?
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:16am
  - tui47
    
    Once more another Labour minister simply quotes the official general line and repeats what the Government has done already. Just another PR update with no information relevant to the dying tourism industry.
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:03am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    BobbyS
    Lots of people “engage” with Pornhub, but it doesn’t mean the outcome is going to have any effect in the real world.
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:49am
  - stigie
    
    “He is and has always been one of the weakest Ministers and how the hell was he picked for Deputy leader?
    
    Because he is connected to Maori, the same as the pathetic obfuscating Willie Jackson !~
    
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    May 8, 2020 10:40am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Connections–he may bring some Maori seats.
    
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    May 8, 2020 10:55am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Related to Wynston?
      
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      May 9, 2020 1:08pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    *cough* skin tone *cough*
    
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    May 8, 2020 1:28pm
- Nukuleka
  
  Davis hasn’t a clue and made every mistake in the book in this interview, allowing Henry to interrupt him relentlessly and put him off his already pitiful stride at every point. Davis is a numpty and the likes of Paul Henry can play him for the absolute inept fool that he is. He wasn’t able to use his usual ruse of slipping into Maori to cover up his inadequacy. As we say in Tongan Faka’ofa Kelvin!!
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:20am
- MJHNZ
  
  It was the best TV to watch last night. It is amazing at how useless Davis is – and he’s Labour’s 2IC. What a pack of losers.
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:23am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “”I’ve also tasked Tourism New Zealand with the job of going out and engaging and reimagining the future of tourism in New Zealand,” [Kelvin Davis] told Rebuilding Paradise with Paul Henry.
  
  “They’ve actually provided me with advice that I’m now engaging with ministerial colleagues over, so things will happen quickly.”
  __________________________________________________
  Good grief. The only people who will be taking advantage of cheap holiday deals will be public servants and politicians who have secure incomes. I’ll be lucky to get a picnic at Sumner beach.
  
  There is a case for the Government coordinating international tourism promotion, but the domestic market is different. What emerges out of the wreckage will depend on market signals and the imagination of people with money at stake. The domestic tourism industry is not going to be driven by Kelvin’s “reimagining”.
  
  Yes he is the tourism Minister but he shows that he has no more clue about this stuff than me, you, or anyone else. There is nothing the Government can do. Except stop doing things. That would help.
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:23am
  - igm
    
    These public purse leeches do not know how much this bullshit lockdown crap is costing us . . . I, for one, have had a gutsful of hearing that sickly apology for unelected PM fighting with lies to ruin business wholesale in appeasement to her union bosses.
    
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    May 8, 2020 8:42am
  - tui47
    
    Tourism operators on the news last night were anticipating more domestic business when lockdown three ends. I doubt whether many will leave home. We are on a very good income but will not spend as our financial future is unknown as there may be further income cuts in the next few months. Any spare cash will be held on to until the situation stabilises.
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:08am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I’ll be saving my travel money until I can get back to Aussie or Taiwan
      
      Taiwan could be Air New Zealand’s first destination after coronavirus pandemic
      https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3921674
      
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      May 8, 2020 10:03am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Imagine, they propose to substitute NZ internal tourism for the massive external visitor industry…. beyond daft.
    
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    May 8, 2020 10:59am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Paul Henry quite literally chewed Davis up, spat him out, and then belched loudly, with the satisfaction one does after a filling meal.
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:40am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Graphic, but true.
    
    Stupid question, what is this new verb, “reimagining”?
    
    And to think, Davis’s reputation was built on teaching Northland maori youth to read and write. God help us!
    
    How soon will it be before they put Twyford, Clark, Davis & Jackson back in the Witless Protection Programme?
    
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    May 8, 2020 8:49am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I too thought it was a made up word. But no.
      
      https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/reimagine
      
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      May 8, 2020 9:07am
    - alloytoo
      
      Reimagining is the new buzz word stolen from the entertainment industry.
      
      In that industry it means repurposing an old brand for new social terms and new story telling techniques and possibly new technology.
      
      The 2001 Battlestar Galactica reboot comes to mind.
      
      Outside of entertainment it’s a meaningless buzzword used to cover up the speakers poor command of the subject.
      
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      May 8, 2020 9:16am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        The re-ligious folk were quite keen on it some years back as feminism swept through their naves.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Re-Imagining
        
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        May 8, 2020 2:04pm
  - Lance
    
    I hate to be the grammar police, but maybe “figuratively chewed Davis up” might be better?
    
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    May 8, 2020 8:53am
  - dave_c_
    
    I particulary enjoyed his dismissal of Davis, and the abrupt ending to the interview. A straight forward kick in the groin, (with a ‘take that’ !) as he was booted off the set.
    
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    May 8, 2020 8:55am
  - plasticbags
    
    Did a search on youtube for “paul henry kelvin davis” and only old stuff.
    
    Then I went into filter, upload date – no results found.
    
    Corrupt youtube is hiding results!
    
    Well done labour
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:04am
    - Swifty
      
      I just found the whole interview on Newshub.
      
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      May 8, 2020 9:45am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Here it is, in all its glory:
      
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/paul-henry-and-kelvin-davis-clash-over-how-fast-new-zealand-s-tourism-industry-should-be-reopened.html
      
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      May 8, 2020 9:48am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        On a human level, I feel sorry for the guy. But he should not even be in politics let alone a Minister of the Crown. The same is true for most of the Labour caucus. Who could honestly say that any of them would succeed if they had to stand on their own two feet? They take refuge in the safe world of a guaranteed income with little to no accountability. Even if they lose, they just shift over to the other side of the room. Where have all the grown ups gone? Even if they shared my politics, I would remain nervous about their being in “control.”
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:37am
    - Batman
      
      YouTube doesn’t automatically hold all video. Newshub don’t upload their stuff to it.
      
      This is a perfect example of how people who don’t understand how the internet works, end up saying search results are corrupt and biased ?‍♂️
      
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      May 8, 2020 9:59am
      - Swifty
        
        Yep.
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:20am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Some people would prefer to believe that our government censors the internet.
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:35am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        mike, they do censor the internet, though indirectly. The private tech companies are all uniformly Leftist organisations, so they can avoid the restrictions the governments have in regard to free speech, seeking information and the like.
        
        Remember the Christchurch call? Who made that call? You now cannot post anything that may be construed as questioning the non-existent benefits of third world immigration and/or promoting (shock horror?) the fruits of European civilisation or white identity. But you can post on Twitter videos of black people bashing white Americans that receive 300K likes without any issue.
        
        But you can’t say that a black “jogger” ? got blown away, not because he was black, but because he was a recidivist offender who was the subject of multiple 911 calls about a person fitting his description seen scoping out houses and looking in windows. Das wacist !
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:54am
      - Fletch
        
        The piece is also on that Three on Demand site –
        
        https://www.threenow.co.nz/shows/rebuilding-paradise-with-paul-henry/S2221-947
        
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        May 8, 2020 11:33am
  - Swifty
    
    KS – I’ve just watched the whole interview and came away with a feeling of great sadness.
    
    Sadness for New Zealanders that we’ve found ourselves in this position – but, let me say, sadness for Kelvin Davis.
    
    I came away from that interview with the distinct impression that Kelvin Davis is a decent fellow trying to do his best but, man oh man, he is in absolutely the wrong role. Is the talent in the Labour caucus so threadbare that Kelvin is the best person for this massive challenge confronting us in tourism? Really?
    
    I wonder what thought has been given to scrapping BAU and going on a ‘war cabinet’ footing for the next 12 months or so? Bin existing ministerial appointments and reappoint those people most suited to the role irrespective of what they are appointed to right now.
    
    Again, is there nobody in Labour with some commercial and organisational savvy who can take over? I don’t want to malign Davis unduly but it is a fact that there are some roles that some people are just not suited to by virtue of temperament, skills, behaviours, experience etc.
    
    In my career I’ve worked alongside some household name CEOs; could I do their job? No bloody show. I am but a capable lieutenant to those people and with that I am extremely content.
    
    23 3
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    May 8, 2020 10:00am
    - Chris Morgan
      
      Totally felt the same way watching that Swifty. Kelvin was thrown under the bus as soon as he was anointed as 2IC.
      
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      May 8, 2020 10:44am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        No ideas of his own whatsoever. Is he even self-aware?
        
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        May 9, 2020 1:54pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    PH was not as rude as that. He was confounded by KD’s bumbling responses. Was KD actually well?
    
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    May 8, 2020 11:02am
- stewmar
  
  “ Poor old Kelvinator. He didn’t stand a chance against Paul Henry. It was like a blast furnace versus a fridge.”
  
  How could any right thinking person down tick this comment. Is there anyone out there who thinks Kelvinator put on an inspiring performance? Stand up and be counted.
  
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  May 8, 2020 10:32am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Only one lefty downtick, there are a lot of lefties here that must agree with you.
    
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    May 9, 2020 1:56pm
PhilBest

“Enjoyable read” tip: Douglas Murray in “The Australian” a couple of weeks ago.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/inquirer/coronavirus-real-problems-tend-to-supplant-the-confected/news-story/27534a6fde9d736c9d7f9e220c2d3785

“…the people making Universal Basic Income and other left-wing arguments are not going to go away any time soon. Not now the magic money tree has been shown to be so magnificently shakeable.

Yet at the same time as those people make their arguments I would also expect an upsurge in the number of people pointing out that the tree we have just shaken doesn’t have anything left on the branches….Expect both arguments, and we’ll see which will win…”

“… there is one prediction it is safe to indulge in. Reputationally, China is in trouble. Or at least the Communist Party that rules China is in trouble. It won’t necessarily be in trouble domestically. The great advantage that repressive governments have is that they can repress people. But internationally the Chinese Communist Party has a rocky road ahead, and deservedly so…”

Too many quotable quotes in there to try and excerpt them – just read the whole thing. Murray is a rare master of eloquence in our time.
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May 8, 2020 8:01am
- Scott
  
  Phil Best – I agree with Douglas Murray about China. It is because of China that we have this virus. They allowed their people in Wuhan to travel the world spreading the virus to everyone.
  
  Here in New Zealand I don’t see any evidence that our government is blaming China or has any intention of holding them accountable?
  
  We should. I believe we need to drastically rethink our supply lines, our utter dependence on Chinese manufacturing and our closer relationship with them.
  
  China is a bad actor who doesn’t have our interests at heart.
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:30am
  - tavita
    
    Scott that wasn’t actually the case. Initially they did clamp down on people leaving wuhan. I have doubts about their motives but it did limit the spread. Unfortunately at least a month too late.
    
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    May 8, 2020 10:27am
    - PhilBest
      
      They clamped down on people leaving Wuhan for the rest of China, at the same time as keeping the rest of the world as unalerted as possible via their WHO puppets. They did nothing to protect the rest of the world even as they were protecting themselves.
      
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      May 8, 2020 10:47am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        China still wanted to send students. That was a save.
        
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        May 9, 2020 1:59pm
  - stewmar
    
    “ Here in New Zealand I don’t see any evidence that our government is blaming China or has any intention of holding them accountable?”
    
    When did apportioning blame ever achieve anything useful?
    
    4 8
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    May 8, 2020 10:33am
  - Blackface Twin Reverb
    
    China is asshol!
    
    4 1
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    May 8, 2020 11:02am
    - Swifty
      
      *asshoe, I’ll thank you.
      
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      May 8, 2020 3:54pm
  - oldfella
    
    This suggests we have just joined a US-led coalition that could end up holding China accountable. And might incur their wrath. As they say in Hong Kong, ‘Don’t trust China. China is asshole.’
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300007918/new-zealand-joins-usled-coronavirus-coalition-and-it-could-attract-the-ire-of-china
    
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    May 8, 2020 11:04am
- Prince
  
  The UBI argument is engaging for about 2 minutes until you do some sums. A UBI for everyone over 18 years old would be around $12K per year. That is funded by increased taxes (45% for those earning over $75K including the UBI), and current Govt payouts on benefits and pensions.
  So beneficiaries and pensioners would take a 50% income cut.
  Thanks for coming.
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:34am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    And right on cue, here comes TOP promoting a UBI.
    
    https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/05/05/guest-blog-geoff-simmons-ubi-and-the-working-class/
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:08am
TWEEDSE

Ardern said this week, “I will not roll the dice” referring to criticism of her lockdown.

Another day, another example of how dangerously stupid she is.

Every day is full of risks. Being alive is risky. It is, in the taking of risks, that we truly live rather than marking time in a “safe” void till we die.

The removal of freedom is to kill the essence of being human. Of living.

In its absence, humans descend into a deep mental depression.
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May 8, 2020 8:02am
- bruceavon
  
  Yes. Totally agree. We all have to roll the dice at some point and accept we have done what we can with lock down and go out and live our lives. Take our chances. We can’t stay in lock down forever. I can see them having a problem now getting some people to get out of lock down. I have contact with parents who don’t want to send their kids back to school. Having terrified everyone they now need to convince everyone to get out and live normally.
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:42am
  - david
    
    Government is really the political management of risk in almost every aspect of its existence.
    Successful Government is an exercise of determining the acceptability of levels of risk.
    So it is acceptable to have 600 deaths from flu every year but not to have 100 from a new disease threat.
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:43am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Well, do you really think 100 deaths was the worst-case scenario?
      
      2 16
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      May 8, 2020 9:58am
      - Blackface Twin Reverb
        
        Given the parameters specific to NZ and sensible precautions such as:
        1/ closing the boarder in February to non citizens and quarantining all arrivals.
        2/ protecting the vulnerable such as the Aged and other high density.
        then yes, worst case scenario 100±50%. Certainly not 1200 or more.
        
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        May 8, 2020 11:10am
      - TWEEDSE
        
        The worst case scenario each day is we get hit by an asteroid that wipes out billions of people in a flash and leaves the rest to die over the coming weeks. Try mitigating that one.
        
        Which worst case scenario shall we scare humanity with today so we can control them.
        
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        May 8, 2020 11:55am
  - Paulus
    
    bruceavon
    “Live normally” is now well out of date.
    Whatever we took as normal no longer exists and will not do so again – we are into another phase of living and people will not like it.
    
    3 1
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    May 8, 2020 1:47pm
- alloytoo
  
  I’m concerned that we have a PM who can’t do math.
  
  18 1
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  May 8, 2020 9:21am
  - tf78
    
    Take her notes away and she would have nothing.
    
    16 1
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    May 8, 2020 10:57am
    - oldfella
      
      Yesterday she didn’t even have notes. She had a complete speech, obviously written by someone else, which she delivered like it a third former in a speech contest. Compare that with Scomo across the Tasman. He talks well, and intelligently. Doesn’t read speeches, but obviously talks from notes. And sound like an adult, talking to other adults, not a bunch of kids. Could we swap PMs?
      
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      May 8, 2020 11:09am
      - alloytoo
        
        I made that offer to the rellies in sydney, they declined with laughter.
        
        4 1
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        May 8, 2020 2:16pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  “Every day is full of risks. Being alive is risky. It is, in the taking of risks, that we truly live rather than marking time in a “safe” void till we die.”
  2 comments someone once made to me.
  1. Life is a sexually transmitted terminal disease. Nobody gets out alive. It is what you DO in the interval between birth and death, that is living.
  2. If you are in a rut, it only needs the ends filling in, to be a grave.
  
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  May 8, 2020 9:30am
Scott

Over here at Biden watch there are some interesting developments to say the least.

Tara Reade has been interviewed by Megan Kelly and that interview will appear soon on Megan’s YouTube channel.
It has also been reported that Tara Reade has hired a prominent lawyer who has represented other high profile sexual assault cases.

I’m not sure that Joe Biden is going to make it to the election in November? Is the Democrat establishment going to decide that he is too much of a liability and has way too much baggage even to defeat Donald Trump?

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/05/biden-accuser-tara-reade-tapes-megyn-kelly-interview-hires-harvey-weinstein-victims-attorney/
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May 8, 2020 8:06am
- Batman
  
  “too much baggage even to defeat Donald Trump?”
  
  So you’re saying Trump is a weak candidate?
  
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  May 8, 2020 10:00am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    They are both awful candidates, and a terrifying indictment on the sclerotic mess that is american politics.
    
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    May 8, 2020 10:15am
mikenmildagain

Happy World Red Cross and Red Crescent Day!
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May 8, 2020 8:07am
Scooter

What a cluster fuck of an interview, he even had JA’s wavy hands.
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May 8, 2020 8:07am
- Biscuit
  
  Scooter, not so much ‘wavy’, but did you watch Winston on Jack Tame’s show earlier in the week.
  
  The only way Wee Winny could hide his shaking hands was to hold them together in front of him.
  
  He was spectacularly unsuccessful in his masking attempt!
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:51am
  - Ruawai
    
    Yes noticed they were very shaky, maybe he ran out of whisky in lockdown.
    
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    May 8, 2020 9:15am
david

Vacuous, and vacant were two words that sprang to mind during that PH interview.
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May 8, 2020 8:10am
Chris Peace

No amount of rehearsal could have prepared the Kelvinator for Paul Henry’s quite justifiable impatience for action. The Kelvinator & Labour just aren’t ready to save tourism with a definite ready to go marketing plan. Disgraceful.
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May 8, 2020 8:12am
All_on_Red

The case against General Flynn has been dropped.
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May 8, 2020 8:12am
- MCos
  
  I had to fire General Flynn because he lied to the Vice President and the FBI. He has pled guilty to those lies. It is a shame because his actions during the transition were lawful. There was nothing to hide!
  President Trump 12-March 2017
  https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/937007006526959618?s=21
  
  Well, fancy that.
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:23am
  - All_on_Red
    
    But he didn’t lie.
    And the FBI confirmed in a Memo in 2017 that he didn’t. That memo was hidden.
    Then the evidence against him was falsified by FBI Agent Strozyk and DOJ Lawyer Lisa Page.
    
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    May 8, 2020 8:50am
    - Batman
      
      Horse manure.
      
      He was an undisclosed paid foreign lobbyist, and a paid stooge of Russian TV for Putin to parade.
      
      He sold his country out.
      
      America has just entered the semi-final round of the Banana Republic Championship.
      
      5 15
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      May 8, 2020 10:35am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The bananas are rotting in the swamp.
        
        4 2
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        May 8, 2020 11:06am
      - virtualmark
        
        Barr going easy on Flynn just confirms that they are both traitors.
        
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        May 8, 2020 11:41am
      - Ed Snack
        
        You really do talk a load of crap Batman. Flynn specifically asked his lawyers if he needed to register under FARA, and they advised no. So when he was charged with violating FARA those lawyers had an unavoidable conflict of interest and they should not have represented him further. They sold him out to cover their own arses.
        
        And a paid stooge for Putin, like Bill Clinton taking $500K for a speech to Putin’s favourite bank you mean, that kind of stooge ?
        
        Flynn was deliberately targeted by the Obama administration before he could take fully take up his position as NSA because once in position he would have exposed the illegalities that had been engaged upon in the previous 6-12 months. The FBI had established that he was not acting as a Russian agent or contact and the case about to be dropped (in documents recently released), until kept open by Strzok on fictional Logan Act grounds.
        
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        May 8, 2020 11:42am
      - Batman
        
        So he had bad lawyers? That isn’t a defence against a crime. Ignorance of the law and all that.
        
        Which bank? And proof that it’s Putin’s favourite please. If it did happen, the fact it is known and disclosed is proof that it was above board. Rather unlike Flynn’s illegal work for Turkey and Russia which was not disclosed. Not to mention the propaganda value for Putin and the national security risks.
        
        You final paragraph is pure insane conspiracy nonsense that shows you’ve gone down a path of a totally warped reality and confirmation bias. I feel sorry for you that you actually believe any of that stuff.
        
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        May 8, 2020 12:01pm
      - Batman
        
        Kev that’s because Trump has merely topped up the swamp with his own grifter flunkies and unqualified hacks (because nobody else will work for his administration).
        
        He’s draining the swamp by filling it to overflow with putrid losers like Grenell.
        
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        May 8, 2020 11:48am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Batman
        I’ve seen the documents. They’ve been released unredacted.
        This includes copies of correspondence between Page and Strozyk showing them conspiring.
        And that Memo plus a lot lot more.
        
        Congratulations.
        You are now Kiwiblogs Dumbest Commentator. And most wrong
        What a ??????
        
        Hahahahahahaha
        
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        May 8, 2020 1:34pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Not for the first time, I am wondering why a two-bit crook and his treasonous helpers selling out the US to Russia find so much support in NZ.
        
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        May 8, 2020 2:42pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Yeah, Flynn accidentally pleaded guilty twice. It’s the sort of mistake anyone could make, really.
    
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    May 8, 2020 10:01am
    - Blackface Twin Reverb
      
      It seems you don’t really understand how these things work.
      Here, I’ll help you:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cT3z4UXSgVc&t=1463s
      
      5 2
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      May 8, 2020 11:17am
      - Batman
        
        If he was so innocent he wouldn’t have plead guilty twice.
        
        He’s got lucky thanks to Barr.
        
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        May 8, 2020 11:50am
    - Fletch
      
      He basically had to. He’d run out of money trying to defend himself, and now they were threatening to come after his kids.
      
      6 2
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      May 8, 2020 11:44am
      - Batman
        
        That happens when you fight a case after earning your money illegally from Turkey and Russia.
        
        Suddenly you find yourself a bit skint.
        
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        May 8, 2020 11:57am
- All_on_Red
  
  Mueller appointed Prosecutor Van Grack on the case has also been dropped from every other case he was working on.
  That’s it for him. Obstruction of Justice charges coming for him and others.
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:23am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I predict that if Barr actually has the temerity to issue any indictments, they will be timed so that there is no possibility of them being thrown out of court before polling day.
    
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    May 8, 2020 10:17am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Temerity, you mean you oppose people being prosecuted for crimes if they are Democrats ?
      
      There’s a pretty strong case to made for a seditious conspiracy, even for treason. And now they have cooperating witnesses, it seems likely that such cases will be brought. Durham has an enviable record of prosecuting free from favour or bias, if he brings charges I would expect them to successfully prosecuted.
      
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      May 8, 2020 11:47am
      - Batman
        
        Lol, still on that Durham crack?
        
        Every day this Covid fiasco rolls on for Trump is another day closer to the crumbling of his administration. Nobody is going to buy the fake news coming from Barr et Al.
        
        A hundred bucks days Durham finds nothing.
        
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        May 8, 2020 11:56am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Batman, while I agree Durham will find nothing, I think some of the alleged ‘deep state’ types will be indicted. I would also expect that an investigation will be launched in to Hunter Biden, and maybe a few other favourite boogeymen, to rile up the base.
        There won’t have to be any substance to these, and, if Trump wins, the investigations and/or charges would be quietly dropped.
        
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        May 8, 2020 12:30pm
      - Batman
        
        I agree with that, I just couldn’t be bothered typing it out as I needed to attend to something in the real world!
        
        It’ll be like Comey chastising H Clinton for her emails, despite no law or guideline being broken, and multiple other Secs of State doing the same. Actually, when the emails thing was tidied up, Condi Rice and Colin Powell had no emails at all to turn over… Seems they deleted their official work emails from their personal email accounts, unlike Clinton. Just one of the many ironies that arose from that whole clusterfuck.
        
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        May 8, 2020 12:37pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ‘A hundred bucks days Durham finds nothin’
        I’ll take that bet.
        Let’s up the stakes.
        If he finds nothing I’ll leave Kiwiblog forever.
        If he does, then you leave.
        
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        May 8, 2020 1:27pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Lol
        He’s run away
        What about you Virtualmark
        Do you and your big mouth want to bet?
        
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        May 8, 2020 2:39pm
  - virtualmark
    
    More like he has resigned rather than participate in “drug deals” that he ethically and morally cannot abide.
    
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    May 8, 2020 11:33am
- virtualmark
  
  Dropping a criminal prosecution AFTER a guilty plea. I guess life always give you the opportunity to learn something new …
  
  This is payment to Flynn for never giving up the missing piece of the puzzle, which is whether Trump knew about or directed Flynn’s call to Kislyak.
  
  The DoJ position here is absurd, and contradicts their long-standing positions. The DoJ request to drop the prosecution was signed by Timothy Shea, who is a Barr acolyte. The prosecutor (Brandon van Grack) resigned from the case just before the DoJ request went in. The only reasonable explanation is that Barr, under pressure from Trump, has engineered this.
  
  More broadly, this is a sign that the rule of law in America is under attack from Trump and Barr. It’s banana republic autocracy stuff. The main benefit of controlling a state isn’t the power to prosecute the innocent, it’s the power to protect the guilty.
  
  Note though that the only person who can vacate the guilty plea is the Judge (Judge Emmet Sullivan). The judge doesn’t need to accept the DoJ’s application to drop the charges. Flynn has already pled guilty in his Court.
  
  Will be interesting to see if SCOTUS views this act as pushing the rule of law too far, and makes it difficult for them to take a Trump-friendly posture on Mazars, Deutsche Bank and the Mueller grand jury questions.
  
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  May 8, 2020 11:32am
  - virtualmark
    
    Note too that if the charges are dropped (ie if the Judge agrees to the DoJ’s submission) then the DoJ can always pick them up again the future …
    
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    May 8, 2020 11:39am
    - virtualmark
      
      And, if the charges are dropped, then the plea agreement falls away. Which means any future DoJ charges can include Flynn’s son.
      
      2 1
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      May 8, 2020 12:10pm
      - Batman
        
        Oh how sad, never mind.
        
        2 3
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        May 8, 2020 12:40pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        “Flynn is going to jail!”
        
        Hahahahaha
        Bunch of ??????
        
        3 1
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        May 8, 2020 5:05pm
  - Batman
    
    Nice to see some rational analysis of this steaming pile of a mess!
    
    Well done.
    
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    May 8, 2020 11:52am
    - virtualmark
      
      Another interesting piece of analysis I’ve just seen:
      
      “This is a bad move by Trump and Barr, but they had to stop Flynn from flipping. If you had your choice you’d do this after the election. If you lose, pardon everyone on the way out. If you win, pardon everyone and say you have a mandate. You would only do this now if you had to stop Flynn for flipping.”
      
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      May 8, 2020 12:08pm
      - Batman
        
        Probably very likely. Barr has done the deed on behalf of Trump so he can keep his hands clean.
        
        I can’t wait for the inevitable broad investigation into this mess by the eventual replacement administration and AG. It’ll be a juicy read for sure.
        
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        May 8, 2020 12:41pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Hunter Biden says thanks for the thoughts…Flyn from flipping, dream on, they’ve had 3 1/2 years to flip Flynn. If he hasn’t flipped yet it seems unlikely he would now. You’re just peddling conspiracy theories now, need some more tinfoil for the hat ?
        
        Unfortunately for your theory, Flynn was not inclined to perjure himself as asked so the SC team could compose about Trump. It is all coming out, so better brace yourself.
        
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        May 8, 2020 1:01pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Rational, a steaming pile of bias and misinformation – except for one thing. The Judge does have to agree to the withdrawal of the charges.
      
      Funny how people can complain about an honest AG like Barr while remaining completely silent on “the President’s Wingman” Holder, who just happens to be a partner at Flynn’s old law firm and he is trying to prevent the release of his communications on his involvement in persecuting Flynn.
      
      Flynn’s call to Kislyak is perfectly normal – all incoming administration NSA’s and SoS’s would do this, and they are quite at liberty to signal a change in policy. Especially when the outgoing administration attempts to compromise the incoming administration with stupid actions just before they leave office.
      
      And you very obviously do not understand how the US Justice system works with plea deals. You are charged with a crime you did not commit, you sepend every penny you have defending yourself yet the charge remains. The Prosecutor offers a deal, plead guilty to much lesser charge (remember the original submission from the prosecution on Flynn recommended no jail time at all) or we’ll go all out on the major charge, also charge your son, and since you have no remaining ability to actively defend yourself (you are broke). what you going to do ? Take your chances with a jury (as as a republican in DC, that’s pretty much a guarantee of a jury entirely biased against you) and take the chance of a 20+ year sentence ? Or make a deal, plead guilty and be happy that you’re able to get out before you likely die ?
      
      And you haven’t read the recently released documents. Prosecutor van Grack didn’t resign because he objects to the dropping of charges, he’s gone because he’s under direct threat of obstruction of justice charges himself. The Judge ordered him, over a year ago, to release all relevant “Brady” evidence (exculpatory evidence) against Flynn, and yet just this month, significantly more such evidence was released, and pretty significant evidence at that. If van Grack knew of the existence of such evidence (and the SC team certainly did), then he is guilty of obstruction of Justice. I do hope he is prosecuted for that and treated like Flynn maybe.
      
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      May 8, 2020 12:26pm
      - Batman
        
        Ed I know perfectly well how it works, thank you very much.
        
        You lost any credibility by calling Barr an honest AG. Given his first notable act was to misrepresent the Mueller report and act outside of his powers to declare it a nothing burger.
        
        Enjoy your delusional bubble.
        
        3 6
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        May 8, 2020 12:39pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Ed,
        
        The DoJ can *apply* to have the charges dismissed. But the Judge has complete discretion whether to allow that to happen.
        
        Rule 48(a) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure.
        https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_48
        
        “the government may, with leave of Court,”
        
        I’m happy to wait to see if Obstruction of Justice charges ever get laid against Brandon Van Grack. My take … never going to happen.
        
        Dosvedanya.
        
        1 2
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        May 8, 2020 12:51pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        “Flynn is going to jail”
        ?
        You two losers have been wrong about everything
        
        4 1
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        May 8, 2020 5:07pm
- virtualmark
  
  Looking on the bright side … this has to be good news for all the other guys who are illegally taking money from foreign governments and are plotting to kidnap people while working in the White House!
  
  2 2
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  May 8, 2020 11:36am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Looks at Jared Kushner…
    
    4 8
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    May 8, 2020 11:54am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Hunter Biden says thanks for the thoughts…
      
      5 1
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      May 8, 2020 12:27pm
      - virtualmark
        
        I suspect the Dems will be very happy to see the Trump campaign go after Hunter Biden. Makes Ivanka, Jared, Don Jr and Greasey fair game. Far more nepotism and incompetence on display there.
        
        1 2
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        May 8, 2020 12:52pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Kushner is a poisonous snake. He undermines Trump’s policy platform at every turn. Kushner’s interests aren’t America’s interests.
      
      2 2
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      May 8, 2020 1:14pm
      - Batman
        
        I think it’s more that he’s a failson who is actually fundamentally unqualified to do any of this stuff.
        
        But yeah otherwise I totally agree with you.
        
        2 2
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        May 8, 2020 1:22pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Lol. What are these mysterious “qualifications” that some people always cite? What are your qualifications for whatever it is you do? Ability is the only qualification.
        
        Kushner is as qualified as anyone is, it’s just that he is a Globalist and big business lobbyist, so he has interests that directly conflict with the people who voted for Trump, those who expressed a desire for reduced Globalisation, and an new focus on the interests of Americans, not the rest of the world. He waters down or totally disfigures attempts at implementing Trump’s policies.
        
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        May 8, 2020 1:50pm
      - Batman
        
        He’s a commercial property manager for his father’s company.
        
        No experience in foreign relations, law, justice, governance.
        
        At least we agree he’s incompetent. he’s not a ‘globalist’ but simply looking out to grift for himself.
        
        1 3
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        May 8, 2020 2:04pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        No experience
        Apart from his degrees in Government, Law and his MBA
        Plus all his international experience
        Hahahahaha
        What a ?
        
        4 1
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        May 8, 2020 5:11pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        his international experience
        
        Of being bailed out by the Saudis for his massive property loans?
        
        0 1
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        May 8, 2020 5:33pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Judging by your previous comments on Trumps property finance I think we can safely say that a retired Govt servant living in Hutt Valley is completely ignorant about such things.
        Just like junior Public Servants like the ? Batman doesn’t know either
        
        4 1
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        May 8, 2020 5:53pm
Poppa

I now formally submit my application for leave from KB on the first day of level2

I will be at the pub if anyone needs to contact me
56 1
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May 8, 2020 8:16am
- Ruawai
  
  Hope you will remember to sit when talking and drinking with your friends, any standing and you will be sent back to level 4!!
  
  15 1
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  May 8, 2020 9:16am
  - hullkiwi
    
    …and remember the 3 “S”s!
    
    5 1
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    May 8, 2020 10:18am
    - tf78
      
      Sh..t, sh..t, sh..t, you mean?!
      
      4 1
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      May 8, 2020 11:00am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Sh*t, shower and shave 😀
        
        8 1
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        May 8, 2020 11:14am
      - hullkiwi
        
        No, yesterday PriNZess told us they are
        
        1. Seating;
        2. Service; and
        3. Safety
        
        4 1
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        May 8, 2020 11:46am
    - oldfella
      
      And if you’re drinking, remember to wear a mask. Just in case the Corona on offer is the wrong kind…
      
      8 1
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      May 8, 2020 11:14am
      - Fletch
        
        https://www.facebook.com/kemahshotbar/photos/a.337747037144460/547885632797265/?type=3&theater
        
        1 1
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        May 8, 2020 11:47am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What pub? I have had enough of this police state shit too
  
  10 3
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  May 8, 2020 10:28am
  - Poppa
    
    Dunno Steve, whatever is open to be frank
    
    7 1
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    May 8, 2020 11:11am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Just for you Poppa
  
  https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/south-african-brewer-says-it-may-dump-400-million-bottles-of-beer
  
  6 0
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  May 8, 2020 2:10pm
G152

Watch how (for reasons not yet invented) there will be no Stage 2 for another few weeks and then an implied threat of a return to Stage 3 over our heads.
Until just before the election whereupon we will be blasted with how they saved us and we are free to go about our broken businesses…
28 2
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May 8, 2020 8:21am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  No, I think we will get Stage 2 next week..
  The cracks are appearing in our PM’s Lockdown scheme..
  
  So it was disappointing that Thursday’s announcement by Jacinda Ardern signalling what the Covid-19 alert level 2 might mean was vague, unsatisfactory and underlined the obvious point: that the alert level system has become a bit of a nonsense.
  
  I’ll repeat that last bit..
  the alert level system has become a bit of a nonsense.
  
  The problem has been that, unlike say a Civil Defence or terror alert level there is no particular objective criteria for by which this system operates.
  
  The levels system was announced in late March. Yet still today, what exactly we will all be allowed to do, and not do in level 2, is still being devised by officials.
  
  The PM and her lockdown rules are becoming a massive joke.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/121442020/coronavirus-level-2-shows-covid19-alert-systems-weakness
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:41am
  - cmm
    
    More and more people are realising we should never have been in Level 3, let alone Level 4.
    
    After all this bad faith we’d better not get a second wave in flu season (though the odds are stacked against us).
    
    It’s going to be hard to convince people to go back to Level 4.
    
    40 2
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    May 8, 2020 8:51am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      It will be impossible to go back to Level 4 in practice, even with legal justification. By and large, people will not accept it.
      
      A government’s control is very tenuous. The maintenance of power requires the buy-in of the controlled. It’s like the wife beater who controls his wife by raising a hand in a threatening gesture. When the wife refuses to be intimidated, the abuser’s apparent control evaporates.
      
      28 2
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      May 8, 2020 9:36am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      I have not spoken or heard from a single one of these “more and more people” who say we should have never been in level 3. Literally no-one I know (and I know a lot of people) is of that view. They might have thought that Level 4 was a bit too tight, that some more shops should be open, but no-one I know thinks we should have never gone beyond Level 2 or 1.
      
      8 26
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      May 8, 2020 9:42am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That’s a particular Kiwiblog problem. Most of the regular commenters here have formed a peculiar self-reinforcing bubble of fixed opinions. Anything contrary to the hive mind is dismissed, either due to the source (government, ‘MSM’, etc) or because it contradicts accepted Kiwiblog truths.
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:04am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        “More and more” doesn’t mean everybody, Wayne. It just means more and more. However, maybe you should get out more often and meet some of the discontented. (which you could, if we weren’t restricted in doing so).
        
        17 3
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        May 8, 2020 10:09am
      - MCos
        
        Nobody I’ve talked to have said
        – Look at America 77,000 dead + 30,000,000 new unemployed. I want to be like them! –
        
        I have a FB friend in the U.K. who wrote a couple of days ago
        – 30,076 Covid-19 deaths now in U.K. disgusting!!! I am feeling angry now as it’s obvious not enough has been done in the beginning to stop it. It looks like this will be going on for blooming months…. so fed up!! –
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:15am
      - cmm
        
        Wayne, we clearly move in different circles.
        
        Perhaps the people you talk to can’t wait for being shut in their houses again, but I don’t know people like that.
        
        The people I interact seem to be mainly greenies. They all got grumpy about L4. Most accepted it at the time as necessary, but the blinkers have come off.
        
        They were forgiving in that we sacrificed and it seems to have been a successful exercise thus far, but enough is enough.
        
        Most of them are outdoorsy types (white water canoeing, fishing, sailing, skiing, tramping etc). 4 weeks of house arrest without even a walk in the hills was more than enough.
        
        Others are sick of talking to their grandkids on Skype and want to be able to travel to Auckland to visit family etc.
        
        Others want to be able to visit their aging rellies down South.
        
        I can’t see them being happy with going back to the gulag for a couple more months in flu season in winter.
        
        20 3
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        May 8, 2020 10:23am
      - tavita
        
        Cmm depressingly, the people I am restricted to meeting all think level 4 was necessary and we should have more of it
        
        7 3
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        May 8, 2020 10:36am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        mike
        Yeah, you’re a champion of open-minded, unbiased, rigorous analyticy, a fearless and indomitable crusader for the truth, unswayed by the tide of common sentiment. Quite frankly, I’m in awe of you.
        
        13 3
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        May 8, 2020 11:01am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        And so you should be.
        
        3 12
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        May 8, 2020 11:42am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Funnily enough, with a few exceptions most people I talk to at work and elsewhere think that Level 4 was excessive and although possibly warranted initially was on reflection, almost completely unnecessary.
        
        Hindsight makes for (usually) clearer vision, and if we had specifically looked to isolate and protect the elderly especially in rest home situations, been able to track and trace effectively and actually separately quarantined those who tested positive we could have been at level 2-2.5 the whole time with no real difference in infection rates.
        
        12 2
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        May 8, 2020 11:52am
      - cmm
        
        Many, maybe most, people still believe the crap that NZ is doing better than Oz on the stats that matter: deaths.
        
        But increasingly people are seeing that this is not so. They’re wondering what other crap they’ve been fed and are getting disgruntled.
        
        Not all of them, but enough of a tide is turning – especially with the increase in not-so-kind stories about people not being allowed to visit dying parents etc.
        
        8 1
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        May 8, 2020 12:48pm
      - MCos
        
        Most people I know don’t give a bag of beans about whether or not we are doing better/worse than Oz.
        It’s not a cricket match.
        The two countries have takes slightly different approaches and with similar end results thus far.
        In both cases there’s a recession coming that will dwarf the effects the effects of the respective lockdowns.
        Our two economies are based on different factors, which will shape how much of a battering we’ll take.
        
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        May 8, 2020 2:21pm
      - cmm
        
        MCos: I disagree.
        
        We ALWAYS compare ourselves to Oz be that our treatment of refugees to tax and spending to how much we drink to the cost of a litre of petrol to sports.
        
        And so we should. They are the closest demographic relative we have for judging our relative performance.
        
        The local media continuously compare our CV19 performance to Oz, especially when they think they can pitch it that we (aka Jacinda) are doing better – even when they must lie through their teeth to make these claims.
        
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        May 8, 2020 6:52pm
    - Sacha
      
      Look, people are taking matters into their own hands. They are saying that they are willing to act as they see fit, and will accept the consequences if they do fall ill.
      I am one of the aged who apparently must be protected – well I can tell you that my friends are saying ‘rubbish’. Their well being (and mine) is better served if we can get out and about as we have done all our lives, and if we succumb, well, so be it.
      I had a discussion about the Queen, who at 94 was photographed on one of her little Fell ponies WITHOUT A HELMET! She should have been wearing one, because what if she fell off and hit her head? My response was: Her choice, and anyway there are worse ways to die.
      
      Sometimes the kindest thing we can do is to sit and hold someone’s hand, tell them we are beside them, and it’s OK to go now.
      
      13 1
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      May 8, 2020 10:17am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Maggy, JA needs to spin the lockdowns and our “success” as long as she can. It is all she has got for her re-election.
    
    Her problem is, when you compare NZ to Aust or even the states of Victoria and NSW, NZ has not done that well.
    
    As usual it has been spin over substance!
    
    31 1
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    May 8, 2020 8:57am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The folks are getting restless..
      
      Too many questions are being asked..
      The gaps in their back-to-work schemes are widening…
      
      Our PM needs another distractor…. rapidly.
      
      I think a new scandal may have to emerge.
      
      35 4
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      May 8, 2020 9:12am
      - Swifty
        
        I agree – but haven’t we been saying for weeks now that it will be the recovery effort that really reveals them as the lightweights they are.
        
        It’s started…..
        
        18 2
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        May 8, 2020 9:42am
      - hullkiwi
        
        I agree Maggy, though the problem for the Labour spinmeisters, is how they deflect it all on to Bridges.
        
        As a way of painting Bridges as bad, this week there was a weak attempt by Dyson and Davison complaining that Bridges was refusing to hear from Maori groups at sessions of the ERC.
        
        Please can someone explain to me, how Maori have been disadvantaged by what has happened? This given how much has been showered on Maori (in terms of government benefits and assistance) and given how little they have been affected by the virus itself.
        
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        May 8, 2020 10:04am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Possibly it has. Has the Crown Law Opionion been leaked by the Cheif Govt Selector or agent?
        
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        May 8, 2020 11:11am
KevO'Brien

Sir Roger Douglas–always refreshing:
https://www.nzcpr.com/in-a-new-world-new-thinking-is-required/#more-32060
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May 8, 2020 8:23am
- krazykiwi
  
  Isn’t he. I’m reminded of when Lange and Douglas were voted into place to put an end to Muldoon’s autocratic pseudo-dictatorship.
  
  We face a similar situation today, and while I believe Simon has what it takes to lead, and notwithstanding his team, what he missing is ‘the architect’ like Douglas.
  
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  May 8, 2020 8:36am
  - Swifty
    
    A very good point – Key had English, English had Joyce etc
    
    11 2
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    May 8, 2020 9:40am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Bridges has Goldsmith.
      
      8 10
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      May 8, 2020 10:07am
      - Ian Boag
        
        Heard Goldsmith on the radio this morning. Focussing on where we need to he heading rather then where we have been.
        
        I thought he was excellent.
        
        23 1
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        May 8, 2020 10:43am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Do you think he should have Kelvin Davis instead?
        
        6 6
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        May 8, 2020 11:13am
      - MrLovebucket
        
        I agree, it will be nice to have intelligent adults (like Goldsmith) back in charge after September to carefully repair the 3 long years of neglect by the idiots in charge of Jacinduh.
        
        6 1
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        May 8, 2020 3:02pm
wilderbeast

Oh dear Kelvin, that was embarrassing. I cringed at the bit where Henry said time was if the essence and he replied with “yeah but we can’t cos we’re in Level 3”. I thought you were deputy leader of the Labour Party, cabinet minister etc…..so binary, so pathetic. Couldn’t answer how many tourism jobs were at risk but was all over some “policy work” the wonks in Wellington have done
48 1
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May 8, 2020 8:23am
Scooter

Thank God Paul Henry is back to hold these arseholes to account.
49 1
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May 8, 2020 8:24am
- Sacha
  
  I simply cannot understand the admiration of Paul Henry.
  I see him as a man who makes asinine comments, and giggles at his own jokes. He smirks.
  Had to turn off Radio magic after 5 minutes -which meant I missed Leah Panapa and Chan, who are good company in the evenings.
  
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  May 8, 2020 10:24am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Has TV3 put up a disclaimer regarding Paul’s views, it would have been embarrassing to have turned down his offer, but other than Mark Richardson, they are lefties.
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:07am
I remember when

Kelvin was a possum in the headlights.
Expect the SPCA to lay cruelty charges!
47 1
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May 8, 2020 8:25am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Either the possum was not well or should go curl up in done-in home.
  
  11 1
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  May 8, 2020 11:15am
HemiT

a summary of and a pdf link to
the auckland town hall rich list

https://www.facebook.com/CraigLordMayor2019/posts/1133230890377903?__tn__=-R

included also are unknown names without a job title on 250k salaries in watercare .

Eighty six staff are paid more than $250,000

wellington watercare senior staff are probably on a good wicket also , still they’ve financed experts to them from germany .
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May 8, 2020 8:31am
- Ed Snack
  
  Amazing really. I would have thought that maybe the CEO, chief engineer, and maybe a couple of others at the $250K + level, the rest of the 86 are simple deadweights, and overpaid dead weights at that. Eighty six of them, no wonder the water costs so much.
  
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  May 8, 2020 12:08pm
Maggie Pie

COVID-19 up date:
A friend from work tweets a reminder about the importance of maintaining the 2m ‘social distancing’ rule…

https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1258458397529329665
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May 8, 2020 8:32am
- Tall Man
  
  Never seen the feet that way Maggie. One of them has a sizing issue I think!
  
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  May 8, 2020 10:19pm
lastmanstanding

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

So its Mother Day Sunday yet sons and daughters cant go visit their Mothers.

What sought of twisted mind forces that.

There is no way a couple of days can make all that difference.

This is about a power play. A government versus the citizens showing the power the government can exert over the citizens.

#notmygovernment
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May 8, 2020 8:35am
- greybeard
  
  I agree. Here is an email I sent to Hosking yesterday.
  ”
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300007246/coronavirus-jacinda-ardern-unveils-level-2-a-safer-version-of-normal
  
  What a load of SHIT.
  This whole situation is simply a political stunt now:
  
  Ardern and her acolytes trying to control the country for as long as they can.
  It is a exercise in socialist, communist control over a population.
  
  This will not end well.”
  
  45 2
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  May 8, 2020 8:52am
- hullkiwi
  
  Someone who wants you to praise her image instead.
  
  Blo**dy h**l, when did NZ become NK?
  
  18 1
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  May 8, 2020 9:01am
- herb1
  
  OK for Ardern as her mum and Dad are living with her and just luckily managed to get back to NZ a day before lockdown. Winston must have given them a heads up
  
  26 2
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  May 8, 2020 9:47am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Kindness, COL variety.
  
  6 2
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  May 8, 2020 11:16am
MrTips

Reposted/modified from late GD yesterday:

Why our Govt Is Like CoronaVirus

– It’s ministers have got only half the genetic material the voters have.
– It has no useful working parts. Its default is to lie around and be inert.
– Left alone, it delivers nothing.
– It has tons of spiky little pricks to try and break into your cash box.
– Many of it’s ministers are good at hiding and secreting themselves away unseen.
– It’s main mechanism of spread is touching.
– The natural reaction of most people is to try and get rid of it.
– If left unchecked, it eventually kills it’s host.
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May 8, 2020 8:35am
- Ian Boag
  
  Posting it again tomorrow?
  
  2 8
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  May 8, 2020 10:45am
I remember when

UK Covid-19 Deaths 1 March – 17 April
Date deaths where registered not date of death.
0-14 0
15-44 330 201 M 129F
45-64 3015 1986 M 1029 F
65-74 4484 2964 M 1520 F
75-84 8575 5064 M 3511 F
85+ 10,410 5209 M 5201 F
Total 26,814
London Boroughs have highest numbers led by Newham (144.3), Brent (141.5) and Hackney (127.4) deaths per 100,000.
London 85.7 deaths per 100,000 followed by Midlands 43.2 per 100,000.
England’s most deprived 55.1 per 100K
England’s least deprived 25.3 per 100K
It is noted that the totals for all deaths does follow a similar pattern.
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May 8, 2020 8:40am
Tony Stuart

Matthew Hooton in today’s Herald:

The Covid-19 crisis suspended many of these checks on Ardern’s powers. Even where they remain, emergency regulations mean they don’t pack their usual punch. Question time isn’t as intimidating. At press conferences, the Prime Minister has answered questions about the Easter Bunny but not about how many people have killed themselves since the lockdown began.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12330397

It’s an excellent column by Hooton, and his criticism of the lack of scrutiny from the Press Gallery is right on the money.
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May 8, 2020 8:43am
I remember when

This is about a desperate desire to be able to say “We were the first country in the world to eradicate Covid-19.”
Their belief is that doing that will ensure the winning of the next election.
They have forgotten about the people and that their duty is to do what is best for them.
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May 8, 2020 8:45am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Today I am in Facebook jail for 24 hours. All I did was SHARE a post stating a true quote by Adolf Hitler in 1933. I know who complained – the Labour Party. I follow them to keep track of the lies and rubbish they post.
I can not repeat the post as it was quite lengthy and has been removed.
Labour Party doing what they do best – banning the truth
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May 8, 2020 8:47am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  So, Steve, were you comparing the Labour Party to the Nazis? If so, can you really be surprised that they complained.
  
  As you know it is Facebook that does the actual removal, and they don’t do so on every complaint.
  
  There is nothing to stop you reposting here. Then readers can judge for themselves.
  
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  May 8, 2020 9:47am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Please, no. I think we have had enough of the offensive comparisons with Nazis here.
    
    5 27
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    May 8, 2020 10:09am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      People like you are part of the problem Mike. You want to hide socialism history just so that it can be done again
      
      23 5
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      May 8, 2020 11:30am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        No, your erroneous and offensive analogies are the problem. You want to make Nazi comparisons to justify for yourself your untiring inclination to believe the worst of every situation.
        
        4 20
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        May 8, 2020 11:40am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I just want to see people educated, instead of having the truth hidden Mike. If that offends the touchy feely snowflakes, I don’t care. Hiding the truth is dangerous
        
        16 2
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        May 8, 2020 12:03pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        No one is hiding any truth.
        
        1 19
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        May 8, 2020 12:33pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Oh, so you are going to stop doing that then mikey ?
      
      16 2
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      May 8, 2020 12:29pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Ha ha. Please point me to comments where I have used Nazi comparisons. I’d be delighted to apologise for such a lapse.
        In return, perhaps you will agree with me that comparing Nazi Germany to New Zealand in 2020 is both wrong and offensive.
        
        2 12
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        May 8, 2020 2:31pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Does he know the truth?
        
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        May 9, 2020 9:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    It was shared, and now not on my newsfeed.
    And no, I was not comparing the post to the Labour Party. It was a statement by Hitler explaining how to implement socialism. Now if that offends Labour, I don’t give a fuck. They need to look in the mirror
    
    28 3
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    May 8, 2020 10:19am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Some of those historical reviews can be beneficial. They are the only reminders we have of what not to repeat again.
      
      16 1
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      May 8, 2020 11:20am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        That is precisely why I shared it. Younger generations are not being taught history – why is that?
        
        14 5
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        May 8, 2020 11:27am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Rubbish. History has never ceased to be taught. You might just be upset because you believe that what you were taught as ‘history’ must be some kind of unchanging, inerrant truth.
        
        4 20
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        May 8, 2020 11:38am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        History is NOT reading about Michael Joseph Savage Mike
        
        14 3
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        May 8, 2020 12:07pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Mikey prefers the Walter Duranty version of history.
        
        11 2
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        May 8, 2020 12:30pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’m not sure that one could have more than a passing knowledge of NZ history without reading about Savage. Even an ignoramus such as yourself seems to have some inkling that he was an important figure.
        
        2 13
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        May 8, 2020 12:33pm
  - I shot the Kennedys
    
    Disclosure, Wayne, disclosure.
    
    You were a failed candidate for Labour before National accepted you.
    
    12 6
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    May 8, 2020 10:33am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      I shot the Kennedys
      
      You have a long memory. Yes, I was a member of the Labour Party from 1974 to 1982, and yes, I did seek the nomination for Mt Roskill in 1981.
      
      In 1982 I joined National. Murray McCully, whom I had known since our first days at university, said he knew that I would always ultimately join National, it being closer to my personal philosophy.
      
      The specific trigger was going to the UK in 1982, to do my PhD at Cambridge. I was also a NZ Army officer on attachment. I greatly admired Maggie Thatchers’s determination to beat the Soviets, not by war, but by example. That also took proper military preparation, and deploying Cruise missiles and the Pershing missile. What a contrast to the appeaser, Michael Foot!
      
      I also knew, back around 1978, that I was possibly in the wrong party when canvasing with Glenda Fryer and another Labour woman member. We walked past an impressive Ford Falcon GTHO Phase III. Both Glenda and the other woman were vociferous about this example of extravagant example of personal gratification. I, on the other hand, thought it was a fantastic car, but I kept these views to myself. Glenda could be quite withering if she wanted to be.
      
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      May 8, 2020 1:03pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I, on the other hand, thought it was a fantastic car, but I kept these views to myself. Glenda could be quite withering if she wanted to be.
        
        https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1532172524l/228715._SY475_.jpg
        
        5 1
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        May 8, 2020 1:55pm
      - Swifty
        
        I’ve a nice family story about the UK in 1982, Wayne.
        
        My olds were over there with Mum’s sister and her hubbie for a long-planned holiday. Dad and my uncle fancied a trip to the Westminster and the House of Commons but upon arrival found the whole place cordoned off due to the war.
        
        They got yarning to one of the bobbies manning the entrance and he recognised their accent.
        
        “You’re Kiwis aren’t you?”
        
        “Yes, over here for a look around.”
        
        “You have just offered us a frigate haven’t you?”
        
        “Yes, I believe we have…”
        
        “Righto then, in you go.”
        
        And my Uncle and old man spent the next hour or so watching the House in action with the Strangers Gallery pretty much to themselves.
        
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        May 8, 2020 2:47pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        NZ frigates relieved a British ship on a patrol operation in the Persian Gulf. Twenty years later, those lucky RNZN folks got a medal for their Indian Ocean cruise.
        
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        May 8, 2020 4:25pm
    - Swifty
      
      I shot the Kennedys.
      
      Fair play to Wayne, he made a mistake and then corrected it.
      
      What more can one ask of a bloke?
      
      6 1
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      May 8, 2020 2:49pm
Benedict Yu

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/300007052/air-nz-passengers-left-upset-and-scared-after-physical-distancing-rules-not-followed-on-flight

The idea of “social distancing” on planes is absurd. You would need to have the plane only 25 percent full to achieve 1 metre separation.
38 1
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May 8, 2020 8:48am
- Cinematic
  
  The idea that we have to overhaul our society due to a modestly destructive seasonal bug is absurd, wildly unreasonable, farcical, asinine…
  
  35 2
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  May 8, 2020 9:03am
  - Ian Boag
    
    So the rest of the world is wrong!
    
    All hail the famous “Cinematic” the world renowned epidemiologist. KB is so lucky to have her on board.
    
    4 17
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    May 8, 2020 10:50am
    - Cinematic
      
      Open your eyes; there’s a tsunami of dissenting views among epidemiologists and other health scientists.
      
      Or you could just pop over and take a look at Oz, where life’s about to return to normal.
      
      13 2
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      May 8, 2020 11:11am
      - Ian Boag
        
        tsunami of dissenting views among epidemiologists and other health scientists.
        
        Silly me. With a handle like yours, and the emphatic nature of your comment, it should have been obvious that you are a leader among them .
        
        2 11
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        May 8, 2020 12:43pm
    - kowtow
      
      Yes , Swedens’ Johan Giesecke has said Uk’s death rates in care homes shows futility of strict lock downs, also he’s critical of Dr Neil Mac Lockdown of Imperial College , whose modelling for the UK and for Sweden have been shown to be a load of bollocks.
      
      12 1
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      May 8, 2020 11:58am
      - cmm
        
        That’s Prof Leg-over Mc Lockdown to plebs like you!
        
        At least he has had the balls to resign – unlike our serial lockdown breakers.
        
        6 2
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        May 8, 2020 2:38pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Benedict, it is no different on buses and other forms of public transport. There have been empty buses running around since 26 March because of physical distancing rules. Under these rules, a 12 meter bus (standard length) can carry no more than 12 people plus a driver. Even then the rules are breached based on loading and unloading a bus!
  
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  May 8, 2020 9:06am
  - alloytoo
    
    The fullest bus I’ve seen had three people in it, including the driver.
    
    13 1
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    May 8, 2020 9:29am
- G152
  
  Try to find 2 meter separation between the pilots of almost every aircraft 🙂
  So flyings banned !
  
  9 2
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  May 8, 2020 10:22am
- Ian Boag
  
  A pragmatic solution.
  
  The air conditioning/filters on pressurised aircraft will be deemed adequate to make the 2m thing unnecessary …. possibly with masks involved.
  
  6 2
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  May 8, 2020 10:48am
  - rangitoto
    
    The best solution is just to ban all public transport.
    
    8 3
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    May 8, 2020 11:13am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I should have thought you wanted people to be able to get to work.
      
      2 12
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      May 8, 2020 11:36am
      - rangitoto
        
        Bicycles for the plebs.
        
        5 1
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        May 8, 2020 1:07pm
      - alloytoo
        
        Safely.
        
        People need to be able to get to work safely in the bubble of they vehicles.
        
        Do away with bus and cycle lanes let the cars roam free.
        
        7 1
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        May 8, 2020 2:50pm
      - Nutta
        
        Aucklands roads flow better without buses on them.
        
        1 0
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        May 9, 2020 12:30am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I don’t think there’s a lot of evidence that SARS-CoV-2 spreads in normal aerosols in air, unlike Measles which does. There is evidence that it relies mostly on the heavier than air particles that emanate from coughs, sneezes, laughter, singing, loud talking etc. Witness our infection clusters, almost all involving gatherings that were loud and noisy with close contact to spread these larger droplets.
    
    So aircraft, absent coughs and sneezes should be a relatively safe environment if properly cleaned between flights. Masks would seem to be a reasonable addition, each passenger could be provided with one and asked to wear it.
    
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    May 8, 2020 12:36pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Told to
      
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      May 9, 2020 9:59am
Yvette

Crown Law said lockdown was illegal
Do you want a future Government to be able to close down businesses and force people to stay home, purely on the basis of press conferences rather than actual laws? – kiwiblog

Did this, or something very similar, not already happen with Ardern declaring Fletchers stop work at Ihumātao? On what legal basis did she do that?

Ihumatao … echo …………………… echo ….. echo …
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May 8, 2020 8:51am
- MCos
  
  ‘Crown Law said lockdown was illegal’
  
  It’s not up to them. According to a email allegedly leaked to that bastion civic responsibility and self appointed public watchdog, Cameron Slater, from who knows where, it was their advice.
  The courts decide if, or what part, was illegal.
  
  If there are problems, as seem to look likely, the government at the time, whoever they are, will no doubt, fiddle with the laws so it doesn’t happen again when the need arises.
  Having learnt from the apparent success of the measures taken to control this pandemic something similar can be expected next time, which, I’m predicting, won’t be too far off.
  
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  May 8, 2020 9:28am
burt

We’re waiting for a vaccine – that’s the plan isn’t it?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300007888/the-new-zealand-strains-how-coronavirus-got-here-and-what-are-its-mutations
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May 8, 2020 8:52am
Critical Thinker

“Biden’s edge evaporates as Trump seen as better suited for economy, coronavirus response, poll shows”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-poll-idUSKBN22I005

Very hopeful news for all us justice & freedom loving people around the world ??
18 2
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May 8, 2020 9:30am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Trump’s approval ratings are still the worst for any US president since polling began.
  
  4 19
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  May 8, 2020 10:11am
  - Ed Snack
    
    So’s his media coverage, by far the most negative ever seen, except maybe for Lincoln initially which was similar.
    
    9 1
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    May 8, 2020 12:38pm
  - MrLovebucket
    
    And he is still going to win easy in November. Fancy having such awful approval ratings and still winning. Hoho
    
    5 2
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    May 8, 2020 3:09pm
    - Batman
      
      “easy”
      
      Duly noted for when it comes down to 77,000 votes as it did last time!
      
      Anyone predicting a landslide either way is foolish
      
      2 3
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      May 8, 2020 3:13pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Will the MAGA hats come out in forces at the polls, or will there be many, like Mr Lovebucket, who think it will be landslide and just stay home?
        
        1 6
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        May 8, 2020 4:20pm
      - MrLovebucket
        
        304 vs 227. That’s 57% over 43%. It’s going to be an even bigger landslide next time. How fun 🙂
        
        5 1
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        May 8, 2020 5:00pm
herb1

Enough of the analogies from the PM and her finance minister.
Ardern boldly tells us that we are half way down Mt Everest and heading for the bottom/
other analogies spring to light . “Were on the slippery slope”. “were going downhill”.
Robertson “When you burn the house down you don’t rebuild it the same ”
No Grant and you don’t let the arsonist redesign it and the people who bought you Kiwibuild act as project managers
33 2
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May 8, 2020 9:38am
- Lummox
  
  Her presentation is half Play School, and half Alan Partridge.
  
  14 1
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  May 8, 2020 11:35am
  - MrLovebucket
    
    Has anyone ever seen Jacinduh and Emma Wiggle in the same room at the same time?
    
    6 1
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    May 8, 2020 3:10pm
    - Tall Man
      
      One has a nice smile, the other does not.
      
      1 0
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      May 8, 2020 10:05pm
Sundreamer

On Monday evening I posted this here

“I’m a chartered accountant. In the last 2 days I have had clients turned down for wage subsidy until they have filed their 2020 returns. It is not possible yet to file 2020 returns and self employed have until 31/3/21 to file their returns.
This has effectively closed all applications for the Wage Subsidy”

I took it to the media and a couple followed it up. MSD denied any such directive. However my local National MP took it up with them and surprise surprise yesterday the subsidies were paid out.
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May 8, 2020 9:38am
rouppe

Anyone noticed that the price of petrol has not moved one iota?

The headline a week or two ago was the oil had gone negative. This was dismissed by the oil companies, saying they worked of the Brent crude price.

Well the Brent crude price is now $20, as opposed to $60 at the beginning of the year. But petrol at my local stations is still $1.97 a litre.

What gives?
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May 8, 2020 9:39am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  I think the excuse is that because petrol sales have been so low they’re still dispensing fuel that was bought at about $40 a barrel.
  
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  May 8, 2020 10:04am
  - greybeard
    
    That sounds right.
    My car has been getting one week to the litre recently.
    
    14 1
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    May 8, 2020 11:39am
  - kowtow
    
    That would be OK but when it goes the other way the price rise is immediate .
    
    Don’t get me wrong I don’t begrudge the petrol stations making money off me , they provide an essential service , its just the PR bullshit doesn’t stack up.
    
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    May 8, 2020 11:51am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The Govt is making money off you
      
      7 1
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      May 8, 2020 12:09pm
- chaos
  
  Dropped to $1.78 in Timaru over the past weekend, was $1.92 before the drop
  
  8 1
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  May 8, 2020 12:16pm
- gorse
  
  I just filled up at Waitomo in Christchurch. 91 was $1-47.9 per litre. Remembering the Government is ripping about $1 per litre in taxes, I thought petrol was cheap.
  
  11 1
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  May 8, 2020 12:21pm
  - rouppe
    
    The waitomo at Kaiwharawhara is $1.83 for 91 octane at the time of writing. $1.99 for the premium my car requires.
    
    Where I live there are no independents so $1.97 ($2.10 for premium) it is. It would be a 25km round trip to go to Kaiwharawhara to fill up.
    
    That’s about 2.8 litres of fuel (Subaru H6 11l/100k urban) costing $5.57. The savings on 50l of fuel ($1.99 vs $2.10) would be $5 so I need to be going there anyway to make it worthwhile.
    
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    May 8, 2020 1:10pm
Critical Thinker

One would think that Beijing would see that unleashing a global pandemic is no way to gain favor with the world. Lying about doing so doesn’t help, either; nor does blaming others for the outbreak. And exporting tainted medical supplies to nations asking for help, while criticizing them for failing to protect their people from the pathogen doesn’t make for an effective diplomatic strategy, either.

But that’s the playbook, believe it or not, that Beijing is following in its global campaign to become the new leader of the world. Sure, vigorous propaganda blaming the United States, Italy, etc., is part of the plan, too. But few countries, if any, are buying it. There’s just too much toxicity, in all its forms, coming from Beijing.

Is it any wonder that European countries, and others, are now breaking with China?

https://youtu.be/g-8gzU2e5xA
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May 8, 2020 9:40am
- Inandout
  
  Jacinda came out all teeth blaring last year about the oil companies ripping us off. Now crickets..
  
  25 2
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  May 8, 2020 9:55am
  - calendar girl
    
    She doesn’t have the fortitude to invite NZ’s oil magnates in to explain their anomalous position in front of rolling TV cameras.
    
    7 2
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    May 8, 2020 10:45am
- kowtow
  
  What about the United Front types who bought up PPE to repatriate , leaving the locals without . And if they weren’t United Front types they were locusts buying to sell to make a killing.
  
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  May 8, 2020 10:51am
Maggy Wassilieff

My knowledge of music could be written on a post stamp…and I seem to be one of those rare creatures that don’t actively listen to music..

But last night I watched Eulogy…(on Rialto)
a documentary film on the life and death of the Australian pianist – Geoffrey Tozer.

Absolutely riveting stuff… his playing, his genius, Paul Keating’s Eulogy, and the film itself.

https://theconversation.com/the-eulogy-review-the-life-and-lonely-death-of-one-of-australias-greatest-pianists-124164
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May 8, 2020 9:41am
JibberJabber

What It’s Like to Believe Everything the Media Tells You

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcUAG6t5aN8

Satire/not Satire
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May 8, 2020 9:52am
Happychappy

New Zealand Prime Minister SAYS Economy has safe haven advantages.
* “that has a safe haven strategic advantage “.
*Says Q1 jobs show was strong heading into the outbreak.
*Says Microsoft plans to open a data centre region in NZ is a signNZ is open for quality investments.
So this tells you how Jacinda Ardern needs capitalism to realize her dream and actually shows what a absolute hypocrite she and the Coalition are.
https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/nz-pm-ardern-says-new-zealand-economy-has-a-safe-haven-advantage-20200506
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May 8, 2020 9:52am
- cmm
  
  “Microsoft plans to open a data centre region in NZ”.
  
  Is that a regional data centre?
  
  NZ seems to be a weird place to put one since we have relatively thin pipes from here. I wonder what they’re getting out of the deal?
  
  A data centre does not really provide many jobs. A few IT techs to keep things running and that is about all.
  
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  May 8, 2020 10:28am
  - rangitoto
    
    Rackspace and Google are also planing to open DC’s here. Nothing from AWS yet. Not sure why they are doing it as all of them have DC’s across the ditch. Maybe they see NZ as some sort of safe zone. The Hawaiki cable does make it viable as there is now a carrier neutral link as an alternative to Southern Cross. You are right that it doesn’t provide much in the way of extra employment. I guess power co’s will sell some more juice.
    
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    May 8, 2020 11:21am
  - Jules99
    
    Won’t need pipes once the satellite grid is overhead.
    
    2 3
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    May 8, 2020 11:43am
    - cmm
      
      Well just have to give more jingle to that trougher Musk.
      
      3 2
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      May 8, 2020 12:42pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Pipes will always be quicker, lot less distance for the signal to travel, even low orbit satellites. Satellites good for distribution but slower for large scale high speed connections.
      
      5 1
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      May 8, 2020 12:54pm
  - The Feed
    
    Lower latency to better serve local markets?
    
    Or probably to provide a renewable energy tick for environmentally aware corporate customers.
    
    3 1
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    May 8, 2020 11:58am
    - cmm
      
      Local Market??? Hah!
      
      5M people is not enough to support a $100M investment.
      
      6 2
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      May 8, 2020 2:31pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Is this the datacentre to effect Gates plan to enchip us all with his vaccine so we can be tracked as MS citizens?
  
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  May 8, 2020 11:30am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    No.
    
    4 14
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    May 8, 2020 11:33am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Is this the reason:
  https://www.rt.com/op-ed/488043-immunity-passports-western-governments-totalitarianism/
  
  6 1
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  May 8, 2020 12:02pm
- gorse
  
  I understood, prior to the outbreak, unemployment was rising, and our economy was weakening. She can now hide it and blame the virus.
  
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  May 8, 2020 12:17pm
Inandout

FaceBook has a governing body to over rule Zucky.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/meet-the-first-20-members-of-facebook-supreme-court-2020-5?r=US&IR=T

Good God.
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May 8, 2020 9:56am
All_on_Red

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 50% (-)
LAB: 31% (-2)
LDEM: 7% (-)
GRN: 5% (+1)

via @RedfieldWilton, 06 May
Chgs. w/ 26 Apr
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May 8, 2020 10:00am
- MCos
  
  Is there an election again?
  
  3 2
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  May 8, 2020 11:11am
I remember when

The Team of 5,000,000.
Coaching 101; Team Talks:
Keep it Simple
Keep it Short
Focus on one Key Point.
Remember five minutes after you finish they will have forgotten what you said.
(If they were listening in the first place.)
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May 8, 2020 10:11am
- Prince
  
  Also, add a little homily, eg ‘I got a letter from Mary in Kaitaia. She washed her hands five times a day. Well done Mary’.
  And add a metaphor that people can focus on. ‘We’re in the waiting room’. ‘We’re half way down Everest’. ‘You’re in a bubble’.
  
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  May 8, 2020 10:56am
Swifty

As a country we are facing hundreds of thousands of jobs destroyed, hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders unemployed and for goodness knows how long.

And what do our unions recommend? Oh, let’s give residency to hundreds of thousands of foreign citizens because ‘they deserve it’!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/tarana/121443622/support-available-for-migrants-on-work-visas-says-social-development-minister

I am struggling to think of an idea more destructive to NZ’s wellbeing right now than to add to NZ’s unemployment burden. Just what are these people thinking?

They are economic vandals. I will go further too – I accuse them of proposing this action in the full knowledge that it will swell their membership ranks.

I accuse these unions of attempting to increase their numbers and have all the rest of the country paying for it.

The Labour Government must do the right thing here and encourage all work visa holders who are without work to head home. They are welcome to come back when we’ve got this mess sorted out.
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May 8, 2020 10:19am
- kowtow
  
  Once upon a time the unions stood up for local labour. Today they are truly Trotskyite and stand for international labour.
  
  Allowing international labour to compete with local labour is a sure fire way to keep wages and conditions shit , you have to wonder what the unions are about and how and why local labour put up with it.
  
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  May 8, 2020 10:48am
  - Swifty
    
    I just fail to understand kowtow how their consciences can entertain two diametrically opposed positions simultaneously.
    
    If I were a member of those unions and the union leadership were actively campaigning for more competition for my job I’d be spitting tacks and calling for them to be sacked from their roles.
    
    Let’s face it, union members are just lackeys and revenue sources for certain people with a much bigger game to play.
    
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    May 8, 2020 11:07am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      They are expecting pay rises on demand for all their member base. That happened in the 1970’s when the unions and Arbitration Court caused a wage/price spiral.
      
      9 1
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      May 8, 2020 11:35am
  - Philview
    
    The proposed NZ-EU FTA will tie NZ to rules made by the International Labour Organisation. Essentially making it very difficult for any future National Government to change local employment laws.
    
    6 7
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    May 8, 2020 11:15am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      NZ is already party to most ILO convention, and has been for many years.
      
      0 15
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      May 8, 2020 11:34am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Unionists are just not very bright and like the PM and her Party can`t think beyond slogans.
    Back in the 80s when working in construction, every now and then a Union official would turn up to my work site, in my work crew of 8 only the boss had a union card which we would pass around and present to this clown, it never occurred to the guy why we all had the same name even the 3 Malaysians on the team.
    
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    May 8, 2020 12:13pm
hullkiwi

I have written previously about the fragile nature of Auckland’s water supply and the fact that there has been a problem replenishing Auckland’s supply this year.

But please, can someone explaining why Watercare executives (all of whom are on significant 6 figure salaries), the executive of Auckland Council and Mayor/Councillors have waited until yesterday to act? And only then to impose water restrictions (as yet not defined) from 16th May. Sorry, but the situation is urgent, so why the delay?
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May 8, 2020 10:27am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Too many people washing hands too often?
  That will be one feeble excuse
  
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  May 8, 2020 11:45am
Tomtoddy

Just been talking to a person in the Police – not a front line cop – and they said suicides in their region have suddenly taken off – 7 in the last week compared to 4 in the previous month.

Deaths from suicide will exceed deaths from the virus.
31 3
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May 8, 2020 11:01am
- krazykiwi
  
  Tragically, this will be the case. I have some knowledge of this area, and the stress->depression->suicide progression is gathering momentum across NZ.
  
  16 1
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  May 8, 2020 11:59am
- JibberJabber
  
  I don`t know why it`ll be any different here,
  https://principia-scientific.org/report-lockdown-suicide-rise-to-kill-more-australians-than-covid-19/
  
  More “anecdata” eh, Lefties?
  
  11 1
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  May 8, 2020 2:02pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  I would be surprised if that was not the case already Tomtoddy. From my network, I’m aware of four suicides from the start of April.
  
  8 1
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  May 8, 2020 2:31pm
greenfinger

NZ goes from it self-declared “envy of the world” for “eradicating” COVID19 to being butt of the joke. This government can’t even get its laws right. Yet they genuinely think they have done everyone a great favour? What, for making 15% of your voters unemployed?
24 3
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May 8, 2020 11:05am
greenfinger

Microsoft is investing $100mn in NZ in spite of this government, not because of this government. Just say “Thank you, Microsoft.”
5 6
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May 8, 2020 11:08am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Why? Govt contracts becoming visible?
  
  5 1
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  May 8, 2020 11:36am
- cmm
  
  Sorry, I completely mistrust Microsoft.
  
  They will only be investing because they’re getting a good deal out of it.
  
  7 1
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  May 8, 2020 2:29pm
  - Jack5
    
    Time for a Microsoft joke from the web:
    
    The day Microsoft makes a product that doesn’t suck…
    
    Is the day they make a vacuum cleaner.
    
    9 0
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    May 8, 2020 3:10pm
    - Batman
      
      Hardware or software?
      
      Both have gotten very good in the last few years just quietly….
      
      3 2
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      May 8, 2020 3:12pm
rangitoto

Interesting article in the DM including the effectiveness of various measures in slowing the spread.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8298975/400-000-people-Britain-caught-coronavirus.html

“One of the scientists involved in the research, Dr Julii Brainard, said they found clear distinctions between which measures were more effective.

‘We found that three of the control measures were especially effective and the other two were not,’ she told BBC Radio 4 this morning.

‘It pains me to say this because I have kids that I’d like to get back into education, but closing schools was the most effective single measure, followed by mass gatherings.

‘[This was] followed by what were defined… as the initial business closures. So that was the point when, in the UK for instance, they closed gyms and clubs.

‘Adding very little additional effect was the stay-at-home measure, surprisingly, and the additional business closures.’ “
9 1
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May 8, 2020 12:15pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I like a pint of stout.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rJQ6yXWtyk
2 2
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May 8, 2020 12:24pm
MrTips

Who bloody cares? Besides, it’s not the worst vagrant lingering around Premier House you Muppet.
10 1
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May 8, 2020 12:28pm
Maggie Pie

Any body else pleased to hear Andrew Dickens back doing his 12-4 slot?
He’s been on for the last couple of weeks, so I’m hoping ZB have seen the light and showed those other two mormons the arse! You can even tell from Barry Sopers voice that he’s happier about it as well. At least Andrew D does his prep before the show! Those other 2 idiots just sit there making up txts about how great they are and reading them out on air 🙁
15 2
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May 8, 2020 12:37pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300008029/live-coronavirus–finance-minister-grant-robertson-fronts-daily-covid19-briefing
Why is the Minister of Health not doing this presentation instead of the Finance Minister ?
15 1
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May 8, 2020 1:04pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Because Cindy has put him in the naughty corner.
  
  17 1
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  May 8, 2020 1:30pm
  - david
    
    Because Cindy takes a 3 day weekend.
    
    4 1
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    May 8, 2020 8:10pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Being vitamin D deficient, as so many people are nowadays due to spending all of time indoors, increased risk of death from Covid by 10-20x in an indonesian study. Vit D supplements are a very cheap public health measure that would greatly reduce deaths.

http://joannenova.com.au/2020/05/indonesian-study-low-vitamin-d-patients-ten-times-more-likely-to-die-of-coronavirus/
10 2
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May 8, 2020 1:14pm
- cmm
  
  In Uk dark skinned people are 4x more likely to die of CV19 than whites.
  
  In a Swedish study, 40% of deaths in one area were Somali, even though their population is only 1% or so.
  
  There is a similar skew in the numbers in USA too.
  
  We could blame that on lack of Vit D because dark skinned people really struggle to make the stuff.
  
  We could also blame higher obesity rates, and other racially biassed diseases.
  
  Or we could just blame institutionalized racism…
  
  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/07/black-people-four-times-likely-die-coronavirus-white-people/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-onward-journey
  
  8 1
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  May 8, 2020 2:47pm
  - fernglas
    
    When did you last see an obese Somali?
    
    2 0
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    May 8, 2020 9:13pm
arkhad

Can anyone see any reason why we couldn’t have international students so long as they paid for their own 2 week quarantine in the government facilities? Definitely shouldn’t trust the unis to do it but can’t see the problem if they pay their own way through the government hotels.
9 0
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May 8, 2020 1:27pm
- Swifty
  
  Many of them will wish to work as well as study and there will not be enough jobs to go around.
  
  We are facing hundreds of thousands unemployed for several years it appears – so why would we worsen the problem by bringing in cheap labour?
  
  How’s that for a reason?
  
  9 2
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  May 8, 2020 2:36pm
  - arkhad
    
    Couldn’t we just say sorry – no work for you. You come, you pay for quarantine, you pay all your fees and accommodation. You don’t get a work visa but you do get a quality education in country where you won’t get Covid. Sure it might preclude a few people. I am just thinking we should do everything we can.
    
    7 0
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    May 8, 2020 3:10pm
    - greybeard
      
      Perfect.
      Covers all the angles.
      They come here for education. Great.
      They do not cost the country for quarantine time.
      They do not take jobs off NZ’rs.
      Whats not to like ?
      The only problem may be where to accommodate them for 3 or 4 years.
      
      5 0
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      May 8, 2020 4:41pm
    - Swifty
      
      You don’t think many will work under the table?
      
      6 0
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      May 8, 2020 5:05pm
Durden

NZ contact tracing system targets are not fit for purpose.

Going into Level 2 with this sort of contact tracing system target performance is a disaster waiting to happen. And I naively thought they were gunning for 2 days, but:

“The timeframe from the onset of symptoms for a case of Covid-19 through testing and isolation of both the individual and 80 per cent or more of that person’s close contacts is now 5 days.

That’s one day shy of the four-day window recommended by Dr Ayesha Verrall, an expert on infectious diseases at the University of Otago and the author of an assessment of contact tracing for Covid-19 made to the Ministry of Health in early April.”

You can then add the 1-2 days it takes for the PCR test results for symptomatic cases to be returned before actual tracing starts.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300007340/coronavirus-new-zealand-is-one-day-too-slow-on-critical-tracing-marker

Adding to the 5-7 days delay above, according to CDC there is potentially an period of active transmission (another 2-4 days) by those who are already infected but are pre-symptomatic patients. Add further — asymptomatic (but still transmitting) patients never ever get tested due to tight testing criteria and a lack of statistically sound broad based community testing.

Imagine under Level 2 how many contacts people could have and how far they could travel.

Level 2 with the current contact tracing system will be a ticking time-bomb.

To get an idea of the capacity of the contact tracing system, we have to ask at what number of identified cases will the contact tracing system be hopelessly overrun so that the only option is giving up?

https://bgr.com/2020/04/02/coronavirus-symptoms-covid-19-can-spread-before-onset-of-signs/
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May 8, 2020 1:47pm
BeaB

Paul Henry’s interview last night with Kelvin Davis was toe-curlingly brilliant. What an inept performance by Davis.
How we have missed Paul Henry.
I bet no-one from the government is ever allowed near him again.
Is Kelvin Davis really ranked #3 on the Cabinet? God help us.
20 1
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May 8, 2020 1:52pm
- Jack5
  
  I watched Henry in the old-hat interview with Michael Hill and wrote the show off. Won’t be back.
  
  2 7
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  May 8, 2020 2:17pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You should give it another go Jack. It’s only on for one more week. Henry was slow out of the box in that first show, but he has well and truly found his rhythm now.
    
    15 1
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    May 8, 2020 2:33pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    His interviews with John Key, Rob Fyfe and even dare I say it, Helen Clark were pretty good.
    
    11 1
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    May 8, 2020 4:38pm
- JibberJabber
  
  He`s Number 2 in Labour, let that sink in……
  
  19 1
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  May 8, 2020 2:18pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Number 2 in name only. We all know why he was appointed as deputy leader, and it had nothing to do with competence.
    
    21 1
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    May 8, 2020 2:34pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      So why was he appointed then Tony?
      My partner reckons it was cos he’s a Maori. I knew there would have to be another reason.
      
      12 1
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      May 8, 2020 3:07pm
      - stigie
        
        Should have put Willie Jackson in the role as Tourism Minister, he couldn’t have done any worse !~ //
        
        Edit:- Or could he ?
        
        9 0
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        May 8, 2020 4:20pm
JibberJabber

Anyone other than an unfettered Narcissist would not even respond but Ardern is overly sensitive to any criticism and can`t help herself.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/coronavirus-jacinda-ardern-reacts-to-mark-richardson-saying-he-d-be-better-prime-minister.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Heh, angry, has she ever watched herself in Parliament? Very bitchy when getting the most innocuous of queries.
18 1
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May 8, 2020 1:52pm
Jack5

Guilford, the pig-headed vice-chancellor who tried to change the name of the University of Wellington, is again playing the big shot.

Guilford calls for the Government to re-admit foreign students, and boasts that 30 per cent of them in the past stayed on in New Zealand.

Guilford and his fellow university chiefs in effect were selling NZ citizenship. “Study with us, and you get the right to become a citizen of this Western country.”

Universities and private colleges, some of them flaky, have been prime causes of New Zealand’s GDP per capita growth stagnating as the population soared. New Zealand, per capita, has taken in the greatest migrant inflow of any developed country. Our population-growth economic model is driving us into the Third World.

The Wuhan flu response will slash jobs. Unemployment will soar. Yet Guilford and Co. would boost immigration by universities resuming sale of NZ citizenship. They don’t give a rat’s arse about the ordinary New Zealander.

Let’s dump our immigration rorts and get our universities back. Start by firing Guildford.
12 0
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May 8, 2020 2:14pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  This line hasn’t aged well either
  
  “The travel ban feeds racism. The travel ban targeted at any foreigner coming through or from China has fuelled the hysteria and misinformation…”
  
  https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/27-02-2020/the-covid-19-travel-ban-is-racist-and-disastrous-for-international-students/
  
  7 1
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  May 8, 2020 2:24pm
  - Jack5
    
    WaveyDave: The ~~Shriekoff~~ Spinoff article you link to, that urges NZ drop travel bans, includes this:
    
    The racist undertones of this travel ban were predicted by the World Health Organisation. WHO has maintained that travel bans perpetuate hostility and fear, and is therefore against their widespread use.
    
    The World Health Organisation, which disregarded the December tip-off on Wuhan flu from Taiwan!
    
    Here’s what your naive writer in the Spinoff February 27 article based her rubbish on, rubbish that must be the ultimate propaganda cry of “racism!”. The source is the statement on February 3 by the dolt who runs WHO, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, a week after Tedros had talks in Beijing with President Xi Jinping :
    
    https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-02-03/who-chief-says-widespread-travel-bans-not-needed-to-beat-china-virus
    
    If NZ had followed WHO, and the Spinoff blog, we would have been in UK-depth Covid-19 trouble.
    
    In contrast, control of travel from overseas has been central to the success of Taiwan in containing Wuhan flu. On a per capita basis its toll has been exceptionally low. Meanwhile its kept business and education going.
    
    You can’t say WHO and Mainland China’s discrimination against Taiwan is racist, because both are populated mainly by Han Chinese. But it is appalling.
    
    6 1
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    May 8, 2020 3:03pm
wilderbeast

I see Mark Richardson’s view that he himself would make a better PM than Jacinda has received a response from hers truly – apparently this makes him an “angry person”. I don’t especially like him but he’s not angry, a buffoon maybe. Just more evidence that anyone who doesn’t agree with her or like her is angry. Personally I think SHE rages behind that crocodile smile, phoney frown and tilty head.
23 1
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May 8, 2020 2:32pm
- Poppa
  
  Behind closed doors she is not that smiley girl you see at 1PM
  
  Any visit to question time gives an insight
  
  21 2
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  May 8, 2020 2:57pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The ‘LOOK”
    
    9 2
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    May 8, 2020 4:13pm
  - MCos
    
    I somehow doubt you have a clue what she’s like away from the public gaze.
    Peeping Toms are usually arrested.
    
    2 4
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    May 8, 2020 6:34pm
- lifesgood
  
  Can’t decide whether to uptick or downtick you. Mark is great. He is conservative, refreshing in the almost wall to wall lefties in the msms. He has the courage of his convictions and he would make a far better PM than the disaster we are saddled with. On the other hand I do agree about her filthy temper and petulance, heard from a variety of sources.
  
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  May 8, 2020 6:51pm
secondcumming

Speaking with a couple of car dealer mates. Things are looking *fucking ugly* for those boys.

Expect thousands of staff lay-offs and yards closing all round the country. New vehicles selling at below cost as they bring them out of storage…..the second-hand market will be decimated as cheque books remain closed.

Though it may be looking good for a *Lada* dealership 😎

https://imgflip.com/i/40kw2y
10 1
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May 8, 2020 2:58pm
- Batman
  
  Cheap second hand and new cars sounds good for getting some of the absolute pieces of shit off of our roads…
  
  8 2
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  May 8, 2020 3:04pm
  - secondcumming
    
    Yes, absolutely with you on that Batman. It’s scary.
    At least 50% of the cars currently on our roads are either unwarranted, unregistered, or uninsured.
    
    I would never risk driving out South Auckland for a start 😎
    
    5 3
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    May 8, 2020 3:16pm
    - Batman
      
      Um I hate to break it to you but the rates of unregistered or unwarranted cars are not that high by any means.
      
      It’s more like 10% for WoFs and (depending on when people register their cars) about the same for licences.
      
      But yes there are enough around which really should just be scrapped for cash, even if they pass a warrant inspection
      
      4 1
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      May 8, 2020 3:27pm
      - secondcumming
        
        Certainly wasn’t referencing to an ‘either/or’ basis.
        But the 50% figure is based on the combined un’s as quoted 😎
        
        1 2
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        May 8, 2020 3:42pm
Maggy Wassilieff

How can you work for WINZ for years and not know the basics?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/416174/work-and-income-acts-unlawfully-over-benefits-and-redundancy-payments
11 1
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May 8, 2020 3:25pm
- greybeard
  
  Have you ever seen some of those WINZ staff ?
  That should answer your question.
  
  4 5
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  May 8, 2020 4:34pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  WINZ makes its own rules on the fly. Their law is very obscure and an old ACT effectively gives power to others to set rates and whatever. Unlike taxes there is no annual rate setting Bill in Parliament.
  WINZ also have little sense of legal proprieties as they insist in trolling through private companies and declaring whatever pleases them as shareholders income despite company taxes having been paid. Combine that with a 70% clawback and GST giving over a 100% of their notional income is demanded back.
  
  5 2
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  May 8, 2020 5:54pm
burt

How well spent is that $800,000,000 we gave to Air NZ looking now?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/121455449/air-new-zealand-cancelling-domestic-flights-booked-for-may-june
6 2
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May 8, 2020 4:14pm
- MCos
  
  I believe it was a loan.
  I don’t know the ins & outs, but suspect if the money wasn’t made available all our airports might as well be turned into dairy farms.
  
  3 1
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  May 8, 2020 6:21pm
- chaos
  
  Of course you’d rather air nz collapse and New Zealand not have an airline. I have no problem with reduced flights to our town, no one is flying and those who need to can drive to Christchurch to fly. You seem to want no company in this country to work, you’ve just finished whinging the other day about air nz getting help to fly cargo in and out of the country
  
  2 2
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  May 8, 2020 7:17pm
Maggie Pie

It sounds to me like Shorn Plunkett has gone all sort of ‘gaga’ over Jacinda – pulling his callers up when they refer to her by a silly name.

As Judas said to Jesus when asked why he betrayed him, “Everyone has their price”
12 4
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May 8, 2020 4:17pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I thought it was “penny for an ex-leper?”
  
  0 7
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  May 8, 2020 4:31pm
- chaos
  
  What is the silly name, prime minister?
  
  4 2
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  May 8, 2020 7:15pm
- andydownhere
  
  No Ithink he was just pulling them up over any name calling. Just stick to the facts and say your position without namecalling.He is the best talkback host on NZ radio by far. No way an Ardern suppporter
  
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  May 8, 2020 10:09pm
Jack5

British economy may be headed for its biggest plunge for centuries, says the Bank of England.

https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/british-economy-hurtles-towards-largest-crash-in-three-centuries-20200508-p54r0c.html
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May 8, 2020 4:41pm
rangitoto

Bonking to banned next?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8296937/Coronavirus-semen-study-shows.html
5 1
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May 8, 2020 5:05pm
Sundreamer

How come every day so far we have been given the total of new cases including both confirmed and probable. Today on both Stuff and Herald the headline reads “2 New Cases” however one of them is movement from probable to confirmed. Why the change? Why present figures that show it worse than it is?
8 2
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May 8, 2020 5:06pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  More fear keeps the sheeple in the pen.
  
  6 2
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  May 8, 2020 5:56pm
- chaos
  
  Moving from probable to confirmed means the person has had the test and the results are in
  
  2 2
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  May 8, 2020 7:14pm
Happychappy

COVID – 19 : David Parker hits back after Bridges questions legality of the lockdown.
David Parker has accused the opposition of “dangerous attacks on Public Servants and the power and the separation of power between Parliament and the courts”
“I support going into lockdown, but the Government had a duty to all New Zealanders to ensure it was enforced legally ” Simon Bridges said.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/416192/covid-19-david-parker-hits-back-after-bridges-questions-legality-of-lockdown
All David Parker has to do is release the information that they received from Crown Law and there would be no problems, but northey won’t which means someone is hiding something.
17 2
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May 8, 2020 5:33pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Shouldn’t the AG take responsibility of any drafting faults in the Gazette Notices?
  
  8 1
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  May 8, 2020 5:58pm
MrTips

So the govt dumps a whole pile of docs on Friday, after the last press conf. and gags Ministers from talking about any of it. Lol.

But best thing is Winston is quiet. Interesting things after a period of Winston being quiet.
12 1
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May 8, 2020 6:47pm
- Wired-one
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/leak-jacinda-ardern-gags-ministers-on-discussing-covid-19-response.html
  
  Here’s the link. This is an absolute disgrace. But we must not politicize a pandemic right Jacinda?…
  
  13 2
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  May 8, 2020 7:07pm
- chaos
  
  Question is who leaked the memory of the gag. Someone isn’t happy
  
  10 1
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  May 8, 2020 7:13pm
Fletch

Looks like Hayley Holt had a miscarriage. I feel sorry for her. Can’t be easy… ?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/300008248/hayley-holts-baby-passes-away-during-covid19-lockdown
10 1
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May 8, 2020 7:48pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Very sad news. Politically, I’m at the other end of the spectrum from Ms Holt, but this is a trauma no one should have to suffer.
  
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  May 8, 2020 9:57pm
Jack5

Be afraid for free speech in New Zealand.

The Secretary-General of the United Nations, Antonio Guterres has said the Wuhan flu pandemic has appealed for an all-out effort “to end hate speech globally.”

Guterres said Covid-19 unleashed a “tsunami of hate and xenophobia, scapegoating and scare-mongering”. Anti-foreigner sentiment had surged online and on the streets.

We’ve already had moves on free speech in NZ, and with the until-recent chief of police expressed reservations about it, and censorship seemingly broadening from violence and sex to political aspects of what we can watch. The Guardian (of course) reports Guterres:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/23/coronavirus-pandemic-is-becoming-a-human-rights-crisis-un-warns
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May 8, 2020 9:22pm
Tony Stuart

Tova O’Brien on Newshub tonight:

“A Friday document dump with zero accountability. A PM gagging her ministers. And all of this from a govt that pays lip service to being open and transparent, when really, this is about as cynical as it gets.”

Kudos to Ms O’Brien for not pulling her punches, and giving the PM and her comrades both barrels. This would have to be the most strident criticism of Jacinda Ardern from a Gallery journalist since she took office in 2017.

All the major news organisations are running the story tonight, and I daresay overseas media will pick up on it soon enough. As I said last week, 55% was Peak Labour, and there’s only one way for the polls to go now.

So who’s the leaker? My guess is that it’s someone from within Labour’s coalition partner. We’ve seen signs of Peters trying to distance himself from Labour for a couple of weeks, and this week, there have been strong rumours about a rift within the coalition. There are the two leaks to Barry Soper, and now this to Newshub tonight. Someone isn’t being a team player, and we all know who has history in that regard!
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May 8, 2020 9:48pm
- kwkiwigirl
  
  I think Peters breaking ranks is a planned move organised between Cindy and Peters to get him some air time.
  
  Good to see Tova O’Brien making her mark and standing up to the Labour bullies.
  
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  May 8, 2020 10:58pm

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