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May 9, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 May 2020

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PhilBest

“Churchill In Reverse”
By James Allan – Australian Spectator
8 May 2020
https://www.spectator.com.au/2020/05/churchill-in-reverse/
“…However, all the early predictions and models coming out of Imperial College and Washington State were massively wrong, by orders of magnitude – as in predicting two million dead Americans and half-a-million dead Brits when the totals won’t hit much more than a bad flu season, maybe 85,000 Americans. And if Sweden is anything to go by – another hotly contested question – it wasn’t the lockdown that caused far fewer deaths. They would have transpired even without the lockdowns and all the concomitant pain they’ve caused for those in the private sector. ..
“…I’m a long-time critic of the sort of Rule by Judges that comes with an aristocratic lawyerly caste interpreting a bill of rights. But if you asked me for a second worst option, there is I think a strong case for saying it would be Rule by Doctors. I spent seven years in New Zealand on a university ethics committee. Doctors are trained to save life, as they should be. But many are economic ignoramuses; many are big government pseudo-socialists; top-down genuflecting to authority comes pretty easily to them; they are as susceptible to the idiotic nostrums of identity politics as just about any group going; they have a puffed-up sense of self-worth, often for good reason as they save individual lives, but that doesn’t automatically make them good cost-benefit calculators…”
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May 9, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  Letter to The Lancet from Johann Gieske, senior Swedish epidemiologist, 5 May
  
  https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31035-7/fulltext
  
  Many countries (and members of their press media) have marvelled at Sweden’s relaxed strategy in the face of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic: schools and most workplaces have remained open, and police officers were not checking one’s errands in the street. Severe critics have described it as Sweden sacrificing its (elderly) citizens to quickly reach herd immunity.
  
  The death toll has surpassed our three closest neighbours, Denmark, Norway, and Finland, but the mortality remains lower than in the UK, Spain, and Belgium.
  
  It has become clear that a hard lockdown does not protect old and frail people living in care homes—a population the lockdown was designed to protect.
  
  Neither does it decrease mortality from COVID-19, which is evident when comparing the UK’s experience with that of other European countries.
  
  PCR testing and some straightforward assumptions indicate that, as of April 29, 2020, more than half a million people in Stockholm county, Sweden, which is about 20–25% of the population, have been infected (Hansson D, Swedish Public Health Agency, personal communication). 98–99% of these people are probably unaware or uncertain of having had the infection; they either had symptoms that were severe, but not severe enough for them to go to a hospital and get tested, or no symptoms at all. Serology testing is now supporting these assumptions.
  
  These facts have led me to the following conclusions. Everyone will be exposed to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, and most people will become infected. COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire in all countries, but we do not see it—it almost always spreads from younger people with no or weak symptoms to other people who will also have mild symptoms. This is the real pandemic, but it goes on beneath the surface, and is probably at its peak now in many European countries. There is very little we can do to prevent this spread: a lockdown might delay severe cases for a while, but once restrictions are eased, cases will reappear. I expect that when we count the number of deaths from COVID-19 in each country in 1 year from now, the figures will be similar, regardless of measures taken.
  
  Measures to flatten the curve might have an effect, but a lockdown only pushes the severe cases into the future —it will not prevent them. Admittedly, countries have managed to slow down spread so as not to overburden health-care systems, and, yes, effective drugs that save lives might soon be developed, but this pandemic is swift, and those drugs have to be developed, tested, and marketed quickly. Much hope is put in vaccines, but they will take time, and with the unclear protective immunological response to infection, it is not certain that vaccines will be very effective.
  
  In summary, COVID-19 is a disease that is highly infectious and spreads rapidly through society. It is often quite symptomless and might pass unnoticed, but it also causes severe disease, and even death, in a proportion of the population, and our most important task is not to stop spread, which is all but futile, but to concentrate on giving the unfortunate victims optimal care.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:01am
  - SGA
    
    The death toll has surpassed our three closest neighbours, Denmark, Norway, and Finland, but the mortality remains lower than in the UK, Spain, and Belgium.
    It has become clear that a hard lockdown does not protect old and frail people living in care homes—a population the lockdown was designed to protect.
    
    Just to provide a little more context. Sweden has been leap-frogging its way up the death per millions column steadily over the last couple of weeks.
    
    True, Belgium, Spain, and the UK are worse, so are Italy and France. But that’s it for major countries worldwide – Sweden currently runs at sixth worst and seems to be slowly but steadily closing the gap.
    
    Yes it has “surpassed” its obvious geographic and cultural neighbours, but that underplays things. Norway currently has 40 deaths per million, Finland 47, Denmark 90. Sweden has 314.
    
    Funny thing is that I personally think that there is possibility that history might decide that Sweden did the correct thing. But even now, it’s too early to tell. How high will Sweden’s death toll go? Will we get a vaccine soon enough to make a lot their deaths look unnecessary? Who knows. But I also think that the quote above doesn’t fairly present the true situation.
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:01am
    - PhilBest
      
      You’re quite right that time will be needed to tell. But what this argument is based on, is that either the deaths are got over and done with upfront, or pushed out into a long, thick “tail”.
      
      In any case, hardly any nation’s statistics aren’t being pushed up at some point by some outlier sector like Rest Homes. Sweden has unusually large Rest Homes which might have looked like a good idea for economy of scale. Sweden also has a massive problem with crowded apartments with African immigrants.
      
      The underlying big factor is environment. High urban density in predominantly old buildings is bad. Especially in certain climate conditions. It isn’t even a northern hemisphere thing, it is a particular range of temperatures and humidities; AND then it is a factor of indoor HVAC under those outdoor-environment constraints. Even within one country there are variations.
      
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      May 9, 2020 11:55am
    - Aunty
      
      The Swedish experiment has failed. It’s clear to anyone with a brain to see that. They have completely failed to stop the spread (which was their intention) and to stop the deaths that go along with it. Only a fraction of the population there has been infected, so Sweden is only in the early days of the pandemic. What will it’s final death toll be once the virus has infected say 60% of the population? 30,000, 60,000? More? Only God knows.
      
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      May 9, 2020 12:45pm
      - trout
        
        Far to early to pass judgement. Swedish authorities admit they failed to properly protect the vulnerable (a very high number of rest home deaths) but we have to wait to see how it plays out. If this commentator is correct all countries, given like circumstances, will end up with similar statistics:
        NZ can only avoid replication by keeping the border closed for years (at least until a vaccination is available).
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12330725
        
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        May 9, 2020 1:26pm
    - cmm
      
      Certainly, radically different strategies will quite likely have different outcomes.
      
      However, those are not the only factors. Demographics, population concentration, etc etc all play a role.
      
      For example, Somalis have been hard hit Sweden (possibl due to lack of Vit D). Although Somalis only make up about 1% of the Swedish population, they make up 40% of the CV19 deaths in one study.
      
      Another is NYC. NYC, with its subways etc was going to get a rough ride no matter what policies they enact.
      
      Bottom line though is that outcomes in one country should not be only put down as a policy failure of just a single policy. There are many different policies and circumstances in play.
      
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      May 9, 2020 2:09pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Fortunately for the Swedish government, the next general election is due to be held in September 2022.
    
    Were it to be held in September 2020, I wonder if the government would have so readily taken Gieske’s advice a few months ago, and, if so, if it would now be back-pedalling at a great rate of knots.
    
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    May 9, 2020 12:24pm
    - James Stephenson
      
      The other unique thing about Sweden’s response is that’s being fronted by their chief Epidemiologist, rather than a politician (and he retains high levels of support – I saw a story somewhere the other day with someone getting his face tattooed on his arm).
      
      I suspect that there will be no electoral calculus involved at all.
      
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      May 9, 2020 2:29pm
  - oc35
    
    Sanity at last well said PB.
    
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    May 9, 2020 6:52pm
mjw

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
So apparently, there is no difference between zero deaths and 80,000 deaths. And the people who won lotto are mistaken because the chances of their doing so was zero. And we shouldn’t be worried about COVID 19. And the global economy was sustainable and healthy before the shock.

What have I missed?
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May 9, 2020 8:02am
- kowtow
  
  What have we missed?
  
  The point of your post.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:41am
- PhilBest
  
  What people like you are missing is that people die all the time anyway, especially old people. 80,000 deaths from COVID-19 is not “instead of zero deaths”. It is instead of deaths from other causes, the only variable is how much earlier the deaths were. What the latest analysis is saying, is that they would have happened within the next 1 year anyway.
  
  So there is somethng to be “saved” – a few months of low quality life on average, but there are no good options here. Buying those lives a few more months comes at a cost, including of increased mortality from other causes for a long time to come. And that cost is not a cost we are prepared to pay for numerous drugs and treatments that right now, are “not funded”. We make these tough decisions all the time.
  
  And it is not a given that the entire society has to be locked down to protect the vulnerable, there are ways to protect the vulnerable – and Rest Homes are one area that obviously haven’t been protected even when the entire society has been locked down.
  
  This whole thing has been handled by people who defy all logic and reason in every single element of it.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:49am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I guess that is why the New York, Italian, British Spanish and French medical services are saying; “Nothing to see here, it is just the normal death rate that always happens”.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:38am
    - kowtow
      
      Unless you’re a total knob you make the most of a situation to get the attention and funding you think you deserve.
      
      And they are getting lots of attention , principally from the Media Party , if it bleeds it leads.
      
      This has led to a form of Clappy Fascism , the health workers must now be publically applauded once every what ever it is , and if you’re not there or not doing it enthusiastically enough you’re an enemy of the people , this is almost literally the case,
      
      We have been pushed into a genuinely weird Orwellianism . And how quickly it has happened . Frightening.
      
      ‘New Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer caused Twitter fury after asking the media ‘have you got what you need’ at the end of the 8pm ‘clap for our carers’. ‘
      
      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8298331/Fury-Sir-Keir-Starmer-asks-got-need-applauding-NHS.html
      
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      May 9, 2020 9:59am
    - Harriet
      
      Exactly Wayne, as Philbest said
      “…What people like you are missing is that people die all the time anyway, especially old people. 80,000 deaths…”
      
      The US toll is 75000 currently and is tracking usual patterns. That’s out of 330 million people. NY can answer for itself. Every other state has to. NZ has to and that is a population of 5 million.
      
      Wayne do you still now believe Jacinda is going to save 8000-80,000 people, and if so, why is her target now about saving almost zero lives? – almost no one is dying.
      
      It’s about a health system – ventilators, social distancing, washing hands, retired people largely staying in doors this winter just like they did in all the last ones, retirement homes and the authorities that govern them still answering for themselves also.
      
      A total lockdown was never needed, or at least restrictions should have been lifted earlier, and some still should be. For the amount of people that actually NEED to work in a rest home could be accommodated over winter in local motels, living largely under the restrictions that everyone else who shouldn’t need to be, currently is. And it’s far cheaper.
      
      She’s largely saving no one Wayne. 😎
      
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      May 9, 2020 10:20am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        PTPM’s spinners are not doing their job. We have 21 deaths from Covid 19. Therefore Taxinda has saved 79979 lives
        
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        May 9, 2020 1:43pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Actually the “provisional” death toll in the USA is 47,128, not 75,000.
        
        If was downgraded a few days ago. At that time it was just under 69,000 and was downgraded to 39,000 because many of the Covid-19 deaths had never been tested for Covid-19, it was just an assumption.
        
        https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/index.htm
        
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        May 9, 2020 4:12pm
    - PhilBest
      
      Wayne, it is absolutely right to be focused on any new disease that becomes a signficant cause of mortality. We want treatments, vaccines, whatever. We want resources devoted to this. No argument there.
      
      But when it comes to whether something is the basis for wrecking your entire economy and society, or not, a bit of pragmatism is needed in the context of “all cause mortality”. AND what might happen to this in the future “because of” wrecking your economy and throwing massive strains onto society. The medical people who are getting all hysterical – and this is only some of them – are certainly not proving themselves a good guide for national policy. As James Allan said in the item I posted at the top of this thread.
      
      I am coming around more and more to the idea that defenders of lockdown aren’t anchored in the so-called science and morals they claim to be at all. They simply like the idea of a Police State and any excuse to impose it will do. In which case they should all be told forcibly to just f—k off.
      
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      May 9, 2020 12:10pm
    - Aunty
      
      And as you and I both know, Wayne, that is precisely NOT what the health authorities in these countries are saying!
      
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      May 9, 2020 12:49pm
  - mjw
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Your argument is contradicted by the near death of the British Prime Minister from COVID19.
    
    And this was not an isolated example.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:40am
    - pdm
      
      `And this was not an isolated example’
      
      Oh -does that mean more than one British Prime Minister almost died. Ithought they only had one Prime Minister at a time.
      
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      May 9, 2020 9:59am
      - alloytoo
        
        Well her majesty technically has 4 (I think) at any one time.
        
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        May 9, 2020 10:28am
      - alwyn
        
        @alloytoo.
        I assume that you are talking about the heads of Government in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. If so the answer is no. They aren’t the Prime Minister but, for some reason I don’t understand, they are referred to as being The First Minister in each case.
        
        If, on the other hand you mean the 16 Commonwealth realms in which she is the Head of State, such as New Zealand, Australia, Canada, The Bahamas and so on I believe they all have Prime Ministers so she would have 17 of them at any given time.
        
        Again the rejoinder to your statement is no.
        My favourite comment on the subject was her greeting to Blair at his first formal meeting with Liz, after he became PM. She apparently commented to him that he was her 10th Prime Minister of Great Britain. He was rather put out at the implication that PMs come and PMs go but that she goes on forever.
        
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        May 9, 2020 3:03pm
    - jimbo3
      
      Don’t forget prince Charles had it with few symptoms.
      
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      May 9, 2020 10:55am
    - PhilBest
      
      The fact that Boris Johnson didn’t die actually illustrates his “level of risk from death anyway”.
      
      We kinda expect Malaysia’s Mahathir Mohammed to die anytime anyway, being a nonegenarian. If he died of COVID-19, would that make him on object lesson justifying putting an entire population under house arrest?
      
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      May 9, 2020 12:13pm
    - cmm
      
      “near death” of BoJo???
      Yes it was more than a paper cut but when was he anywhere near death?
      
      Sure he was ill and he was in ICU, but that’s a long road from being “near death”.
      
      Sure, they also sorted a “what if he dies” plan, but that was just being cautious. Nobody was expecting him to die – not even close.
      
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      May 9, 2020 2:26pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Given his unwillingness to lie down with the dogs, he may have had an artificial dose of the fleas.
      
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      May 9, 2020 4:14pm
  - MCos
    
    “the only variable is how much earlier the deaths were.”
    
    But, m’Lud, they were going to die anyway.
    
    Set the prisoner free!
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:49am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  They even effed up this bit:
  “It has become clear that a hard lockdown does not protect old and frail people living in care homes—a population the lockdown was designed to protect.”
  
  “but it also causes severe disease, and even death”
  The only bit you got right, well whoopie you pointed out the obvious. If you were the captain of the ship Phil Best, the crew would have ‘helped’ you go overboard weeks ago.
  
  https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/swedens-covid-19-death-toll-horrifying-says-scientist/ar-BB13KZ4q
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:25am
  - cmm
    
    As far as dying goes, old frail people are the ones with skin in the game.
    
    Should we be doing everything we can to prolong their lives by an extra year or so, even when we trash their quality of life?
    
    Ask, or hypothetically ask, an old frail persom this:
    
    You have two choices: A or B.
    
    A) This is the “safe choice”. If you take this choice you have a 10% chance of living an extra year, maybe two years, longer. However it comes at a cost:
    * You will be forced to live in lockdown in your room.
    * No more social chit chat, cards and bowls with your mates.
    * No social trips to the botanical gardens or whatever.
    * Your kids and grandkids will not be allowed to visit.
    * You can’t go on outings with the family or go over for Sunday roast or go watch your grandkids play sport.
    * Your kids might lose their jobs. They will be stressed.
    * Your grandkids might lose out on education.
    * Your kids will lose money and be indebted for years, same for your grandkids.
    * Your savings will be hammered.
    * You can’t get wool for your knitting or wood for your woodwork.
    
    B) This is the “high risk” choice. You have a 10% chance of dying a year earlier than if you take (A). However:
    * You can still have a full active social life.
    * Your kids and grandkids can visit.
    * Your family keeps their jobs, goes on holidays, can go to the beach (and take you).
    * Your family continue to have a rich and rewarding life and are fun to be around.
    
    I am not a mind reader, but I think most old frail people see every day as a bonus and want quality over quantity. Most would choose B.
    
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    May 9, 2020 2:43pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      The Euthanasia debate?
      
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      May 9, 2020 10:06pm
Happychappy

What a heartless callous Government this is when Kiwis have to beg the Government for compassion to be able to see their dying wife one last time .
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/kiwi-in-quarantine-appeals-governments-compassion-see-dying-wife
What lies or excuse’s will Jacinda Ardern come up with this time.
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May 9, 2020 8:05am
- Scum
  
  She won’t come up with an excuse. The media will think one up for her.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:48am
- pdm
  
  Most of the Government probably do not have wives or husbands – they have partners which does not imply the same commitment to each other.
  
  mrspdm and I passed 50 years of marriage during the lockdown.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:57am
  - krazykiwi
    
    50 years! Congrats to you both. Role models.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:20am
  - Happychappy
    
    Well done pdm congratulations.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:33am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I hope you are enjoying a glorious Golden autumn at present.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:37am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    That’s fantastic pdm; here’s to the next fifty!
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:48am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Congratulations for your milestone, but not for your judgement on other peoples’ relationships.
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:00am
  - alloytoo
    
    Congratulations
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:29am
  - Cod Weyne
    
    Legends…congrats.
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:39am
  - cmm
    
    Good man pdm! Good woman mrspdm!
    
    Remember you’re only as old as the woman you feel.
    
    My fondest wishes for the two of you.
    
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    May 9, 2020 2:47pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Here are the excuse list for Cindy to pick from:
  
  1. That is a Ministry of Health call. Not mine
  2. While we are saving 80,000 lives, there will be odd cases like this
  3. We feel sorry for them, but we are thinking of the big picture
  4. Nine long years of neglect has resulted in Covid-19 being unleashed in NZ
  5. While I sympathise, flattening the curve is much more important
  6. I have asked Dr David Clark to look into this
  7. This is an operational matter and I can’t comment
  8. I will ask for an enquiry commission to look into this
  9. I am convening a working group to recommend better solution to these problems
  10. Nation supports me and that is all it matters.
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:33am
  - davidp
    
    11. Darren Hughes called from exile and told her not to show even an iota of compassion.
    12. Who do these people think they are that they can just wander around the country doing whatever they want? David Clark?
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:11am
  - MrLovebucket
    
    Or.. that is a Labour Party issue. Nothing to do with me
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:29am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Trevor!!!!!! Save me.
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:11pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  WTF. So they are still doing this despite being mauled by the High Court last week in a judicial review of a seemingly of identical case.
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:44am
  - niggly
    
    Anyone catch HDPA Thursday (I think) on ZB saying that when when Jacinda’s caring and transparent government finally backtracked and allowed that woman to see her dying mother, that they emailed the woman to say good news she now can AND also emailed Newshub at the same time so it was announced on Newshub’s 6pm news bulletin?
    
    Typically fuc*en disgusting Labour Party, manipulating a poorly managed situation to “maximum advantage” to mask their incompetent decision making (Jacinda should have over-rid MoH days ago – something H1 was astute at but Jacinda just doesn’t have a clue does she but what’s new).
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:21am
    - yossarian
      
      Email? What, they didn’t have the decency to call her?
      
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      May 9, 2020 12:24pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    There is another case of a guy in Australia who has decided not to come and see his mother who is dying in Auckland Hospital. He said he can’t come here, do 2 weeks in quarantine in Auckland and 2 weeks quarantine on his return to Aust. And there is no guarantee that his mother will not die while he is in quarantine.
    
    This morning, RNZ reported the MoH disclosing they had had circa 340 applications for people to “leave their bubbles on compassionate grounds”, but they had only approved circa 45 applications to date.
    
    Sorry, what police state do we live in where the Ministry of Health grant us permission to see a dying family member?
    
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    May 9, 2020 3:05pm
The Proper Ghandi

There has been quite a bit of hyperbole about Ardern and her stooges on KB over the lock down. But we are now having our suspicions confirmed by their actions and words. These people are fucking us and they are shutting down criticism and inquiry into how they are doing it. Happily for National, it shows they are running scared. This is all excellent fodder for the televised election debates. This could be Ardern’s Watergate moment. I can see the masks slipping and even the usually docile media are asking questions.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/willie-jackson-demands-kiwis-congratulate-this-government-over-covid-19-lockdown-success.html?fbclid=IwAR2wQi28IyHjb12MSgJjl7uuOzVfKqtaJo0JcnUnukqyg1g_SRl5L1tD8q0

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/leak-jacinda-ardern-gags-ministers-on-discussing-covid-19-response.html

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12330684
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May 9, 2020 8:07am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  The lefty trolls will now say NZ’s msm is controlled by right-wing, fascist multinational conglomerates…
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:35am
  - Komata
    
    Suze@0935
    
    $50 million would seem to indicate otherwise…
    
    (unless of course that is the new MSM term for the globalists / communists / socialists currently controlling this country, in which case it is entirely correct).
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:20am
  - MCos
    
    Well
    Ain’t they?
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:56am
- Lee C
  
  Looks like the balloon just went up…
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:52am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  ‘A leaked email, sent to Beehive staff today, directed them to issue only “brief written statements” in response to media queries about the documents.
  
  “Do not put minister up for any interviews on this,” it stated.
  
  The directive stated that the Government had no need to respond because of the overwhelming public support, and should instead “lead the changing conversation”.
  
  “There’s no real need to defend. Because the public have confidence in what has been achieved and what the Govt is doing,” the email said.
  
  “Instead we can dismiss.”
  
  The memo also included “key messages” for ministers and staff to stick to in their written statements, including: “No one had the luxury of time,” and, “Perfect would have been the public enemy of the good”.’
  
  Unfuckingbelieviable except in the Adhern new world order.
  
  Imagine fronting up to your boss with that sort of answer! Your personal effects would be couried to you at home.
  
  We, the taxpayer, those jack asses, are our servants, not the other way around although day by day, it is becoming that way!
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:21am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    55% of Sheeple like what she is doing. So shut up and get on with the lock down. Be kind. Be safe. Be f**ked.
    
    29 2
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    May 9, 2020 10:35am
  - david
    
    Q. Who sent the email?
    
    5 1
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    May 9, 2020 1:49pm
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
It’s over 9,000!
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May 9, 2020 8:07am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  What is over 9,000? The number of vacuous brain farts that you have posted so far this year?
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:46am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Only the cool kids will get this one.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:01am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      +1
      
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      May 9, 2020 9:13am
    - kowtow
      
      Kool Aid Kids
      
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      May 9, 2020 9:21am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Should we be surprised that our troll spouts trollisms?
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Over_9000!
      
      (Disclosure: I’m cool, but I’m not a kid)
      
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      May 9, 2020 9:43am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It in’t trolling to refer to culturally significant days, is it Maggy? Unless you have expanded your definition of ‘trolling’ to include any comment from someone you dislike.
        
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        May 9, 2020 9:46am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        The opening sentence of the Wikipedia link:
        
        “It’s Over 9000!”, also known as simply “Over 9000!”, refers to an internet meme and a form of trolling involving a particularly famous change made for English localizations of an episode of the Dragon Ball Z anime television series titled “The Return of Goku”, which originally aired on April 19, 1997.
        
        from someone you dislike.
        
        I have no idea who you are.. why would I dislike you?
        
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        May 9, 2020 11:22am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hah! Wikipedia also states that:
        
        In internet slang, a troll is a person who starts Flame wars or upsets people on the Internet by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community
        
        How can we resolve this contradiction within Wikipedia! People need to know.
        
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        May 9, 2020 2:23pm
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        Mike’s just pissed off you’ve worked him (her/it?) out Maggy…
        
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        May 9, 2020 4:36pm
- RPP
  
  Have you reached your final form Mike?
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:02am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Mike is intelligent and I am confident he got past the third form.
    
    I put his whole perspective and, perhaps attitude, in life down to licking too many 9V batteries.
    
    40, a number for you Mike, is the number of people who die from licking batteries in the US per annum.
    
    I googled the number for NZ and found that anyone who died from licking a battery was recorded as dying from Covid 19 with underlying issues of stupid.
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:33am
Captain Mainwaring

Let’s see if I have this right.
Lots of punters bought discounted Air NZ tickets several months ago. Now Air NZ has cancelled the flights and said the tickets can be held in credit for a year for use on other flights.
Then they say that most of the routes the flights were booked on will be reopened under level 2 but bad luck with your credit, the flights are now more expensive.
For Air NZ’s sake, I hope they have the services of some very clever lawyers.
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May 9, 2020 8:08am
- G152
  
  Cant wait to see as to how they’re going to separate the aircrew.
  2 meters is about the width of the entire cockpit
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:20am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    There’s no point doing the 2m thing inside the cabin of an aeroplane. Because the air in it is circulated, if the virus is present then everybody in the cabin will be exposed to it no matter how far from the original source they are. If you can’t live with that risk don’t fly
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:46am
    - Nickc2
      
      FYI All large commercial jet aircraft provide approximately 20 air exchanges per hour during cruising, with lower amounts during descent and while on the ground.
      
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      May 9, 2020 1:35pm
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      Have to agree, the leave the middle seats empty is just a total cop out. What about the person behind you or if in a middle seat across the isle.
      What if someone gets up and goes to toilet.
      It is endless, whatever you do there is no way to control what happens on the present aircraft fleets.
      Maybe the ones that don’t want to take the risk can fly on a hercules.
      
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      May 9, 2020 2:45pm
- Nickc2
  
  Tell me again how much money the CoL have thrown at Air NZ and what for?
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:44am
  - MCos
    
    The airline borrowed the best part of a billion dollars, otherwise I expect they would have gone out of existence, which would have been intolerable on a number of levels.
    BTW
    Jetstar domestic flights are grounded until at least July
    
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    May 9, 2020 12:05pm
- peterwn
  
  Unfortunately airlines in NZ and Australia have been able to set terms of carriage that puts much of the risk of disruptions on to customers because of disrupted flights or travel because of weather or ‘black swan’ events. They and insurance companies have been successful in pushing back ggainst a more customer friendly approach over the years.
  No doubt some lawyers are considering class actions and are probably in discussion with litigation funders, but the funders are going to need to be convinced that the airlines’ terms of carriage can be successfully attacked.
  For the sake of mental health, it may be better in many cases for people to just accept they have lost the money and get on with life. Even if people join a potentially successful class action they would be lucky to get half their money back.
  There is a contrary scenario that the airlines will need an initial momentum of passengers to get going and what better than to encourage the passengers with ‘on hold’ fares to use them without surcharge.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:46am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Not Qantas, cobber. If they cancel your flight, their conditions of carriage state that you’re entitled to a full refund. Mind you, they were doing every sneaky thing they could to convince you a flight credit was your only option.
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:41am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Another shining example of how NZ does things so much better?
    
    Elsewhere in the grown-up parts of the world customers are entitled to a full refund.
    
    But hey, we’re “punching above our weight” again
    
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    May 9, 2020 12:23pm
- Inandout
  
  CM, the fine print says there can be no refund, at least that is what I always understood. If you go cheap you take the good with the bad.
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:04am
- Clyde
  
  The terms of carriage basically state, if I’m correct, that Air NZ will sell you the carriage of the customer from A to B. That’s why if they have to bus you between those two points, then that’s OK.
  
  I would say that a basic contract exists however if a customer books (and pays for) carriage. Some people take out travel insurance to cover any grey areas but I’m aware that as soon as the lockdown started to bite, the opportunity for a customer to cancel a flight was removed from the Air NZ website.
  
  It was possible to rebook (at a $50 fee), but now it seems that if Air NZ are cancelling a previous service, then they are refusing a refund, but only offering some form of credit. That seems to me to be outide basic contracting law.
  
  I read that cruise ships are doing the same thing, but for the life of me I can’t see the difference between travel and any other contracted service. The other interesting thing is that the travel insurers are refusing to refund travel costs during this crisis.
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:52am
  - peterwn
    
    A ‘basic contract’ exists OK, but by booking and paying you agree to accept the contract as written by Air NZ. It is only where there is no agreed upon contract that the Courts will discern a basic contract. All sorts of legal implications such as ‘specific performance’ come into play.
    That is why in the 1970’s the Real Estate Association and the Auckland District Law Society developed developed a standard sale and purchase agreement for real estate which is now in its 10th edition. It is in almost universal use and has replaced the previous basic one page contracts.
    
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    May 9, 2020 2:29pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The Law Society’s contract docs work well. The airline tickets are not in that value range so argument is not likely to be profitable. Good commercial practices need to prevail with the Govt controlled carrier having a primary duty to set a desirable standard.
      
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      May 9, 2020 2:44pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s the Govt’s airline so don’t expect the former law of contract to be applied.
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:18am
  - peterwn
    
    No difference. A Government majority ownership makes no difference to the status of the company. Contracts with the Crown are binding. If the Crown reneges on such a contract this would greatly increase the ‘Sovereign Risk’ with respect of doing business with the NZ Government and would mean billions of lost business opportunities.
    
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    May 9, 2020 2:34pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      (My comment was a bit tainted by other Govt behaviour.)
      
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      May 9, 2020 2:46pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  There are many people losing serious money. I had 38 flights booked from the start of Level 4 through to the end of June. 36 were domestic and 2 were to Australia. I will need to do some travel again from the start of Level 2. That will mean drawing on my “credit” but booking new flights at a considerably higher cost. Oh and there is no efficient way to access your “credit”. You need to phone them and wait on hold for an average of 60 minutes.
  
  The days of cheap travel are over. Last week the cost of a WLG-CHC-WLG return flight was $914.
  
  The thing is the whole concept of social distancing on planes is absurd. It cannot be done unless you make everyone wear masks and leave every middle seat empty and every second row empty. That would mean 25 people on an Airbus A320 instead of 168. That would mean about a 500 percent increase in domestic fares.
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:26am
- Rich Prick
  
  That’s called fraud.
  
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  May 9, 2020 12:05pm
MrTips

Someone in the govt ministers circle needs to lay off using the hand sanitizer. They’re using way too much and confidential memos are greasily slipping from their grasp into Tova’s in-tray.

Bwahahahaha
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May 9, 2020 8:12am
- kowtow
  
  I suspect a “partner” in the coalition has gone into serious electioneering mode…….
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:45am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    A bottle of the finest single malt says you’re right 😉
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:13am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Someone needs to tell them to stop drinking it.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:49am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Just wait until the same Tova turns on Simon B next week (after some dressing down from the PTPM).
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:38am
  - MCos
    
    Join the queue
    
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    May 9, 2020 12:07pm
Captain Mainwaring

So a bunch of secondary school teachers don’t feel like going back to work under level 2.
Easy decision when you’re lounging at home on full pay.
How about thinking like you’re in the private sector and don’t get paid unless you go to work.
Wankers.
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May 9, 2020 8:12am
- PhilBest
  
  Matt Walsh is always devastatingly clear on his logic and morals:
  
  https://www.dailywire.com/news/walsh-if-you-want-to-stay-home-stay-home-let-the-rest-of-us-get-back-to-our-lives
  
  “…young and healthy people are very unlikely to die from the disease or be hospitalized because of it. This doesn’t mean we should cavalierly throw aside all precautions and safety measures, but it does mean that there is no good reason, and was never any good reason, for most of us to stay locked in our homes. The threat level for us is quite low, and we should be allowed to take that risk if we wish.
  
  But this brings us to an important point. It has been repeatedly argued that even the young and healthy cannot be allowed to go back to their jobs and reclaim their lives because they might spread it to people who are not in that category. Also, what about people – healthy or not – who don’t want to take the risk? Is it fair that they should have the risk foisted on them? I say no, it is not fair. Which is why I would be against forcing anyone to leave their homes or go to work…
  
  “…This, to me, seems rather simple. If you want to remain in your home, that’s fine. Stay there as long as you like. You need not worry about everyone else spreading it to you if you are still hiding behind locked doors. You only risk exposure if you leave your home. But, again, if you don’t want to leave your home, don’t. Only those who choose to take the risk should take it. And there is no reason why I should be prevented from taking the risk just because you don’t want to take it.
  
  A common counter argument to this plan is this: if many people get back to work, and businesses open again, then some of the people who want to stay locked down might be compelled by their employers to come back to their jobs. These people might be in a position, then, of losing their jobs if they decide to remain in lockdown while millions of other Americans try to get the economic engines humming again. This strikes me as an ironic and hypocritical concern. After all, if you are pro-lockdown, then you believe that 33 million lost jobs is a price worth paying. Indeed, you have probably even scolded the people worried about losing their jobs for “putting money before human life.” But now that you stand to lose your own job, suddenly job loss is a problem?..”
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:20am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Yeah, Matt Walsh is the best.
    https://twitter.com/coochfan/status/1258234998575861762
    
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    May 9, 2020 8:58am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    “but it does mean that there is no good reason, and was never any good reason, for most of us to stay locked in our homes.” What a lightweight.
    Essential service people have never been locked in their homes they’ve been keeping you fully supplied with toilet paper, and you need it.
    Because you are actually the 1 hiding away, you’re not working on the front line in the hospitals or keeping people fed just spinning bs on KB and taking depression pills if you don’t get the first post of the day. Get a job mate.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:38am
    - PhilBest
      
      Show yourself up mate why don’t you? People furious at being placed under unjustified house arrest on false pretexts are “the ones hiding”? Nice try mate, you could hide behind a corkcrew. If I could have been working, you wouldn’t have seen me on Kiwiblog; this is just an obvious means of fighting the false pretexts short of getting along to the seat of government with a whole lot of fellow NRA members packing heat. You admire the integrity of those Michiganers do you? Not for them, staying at home participating in Blog arguments, eh?
      
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      May 9, 2020 12:24pm
    - GT Build
      
      Braindead the hospitals are empty a friend of mine got called in for a mri during level 4 and was told that they are bored to tears the place was empty and staff were sitting around chatting. They emptied the hospitals and canned all operations and treatment how many will die because they did not have treatment that number will be hidden along with crown law advice
      
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      May 9, 2020 1:12pm
      - doggone7
        
        Is that setting things up for the ‘just in case’ scenario? Like having warehouses permanently stocked full of PPE gear?
        
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        May 9, 2020 7:51pm
- Scum
  
  The sooner the Chinese takeover New Zealand the better.
  
  They have a culture of work. They will cancel the dole and get the Maori and PI’s to cultivate rice for them along the banks of the Waikato River. Food will be rationed according to productivity. A day of no work will be a day of no food.
  
  They will mine our former resources. Oil, gas, coal, uranium, gold, timber…
  
  And they will take pride in their new country which will have no treaty and no global warming plan.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:25am
  - PhilBest
    
    I understand where you are coming from. That old thesis about freedom and decadence describes how people lose their freedom; they need to be protected from their own decadence.
    
    Then the nature of the totalitarian government you get, is something in which your luck varies. I’ve been coming around to it for years, that Chile was lucky to get Pinochet, given that the alternative trajectory would have been like Venezuela. Pinochet has of course been the devil incarnate to the global leftwing establishment, precisely BECAUSE he stopped Chile from becoming Venezuela.
    
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    May 9, 2020 8:54am
  - MCos
    
    I didn’t know there was unemployment benefit in China, or anywhere much in Asia.
    
    13 1
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    May 9, 2020 9:08am
    - Happychappy
      
      Who would have thought that after reading many of your posts on here.
      
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      May 9, 2020 9:36am
    - PhilBest
      
      I had a Chinese co-worker who told us once, “no benefit in China but nobody starve. They stay with their family and plant things to eat. Kiwi too soft”.
      
      6 2
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      May 9, 2020 12:25pm
      - MCos
        
        Did you ask him what they ate?
        Not bats by any chance?
        There’s a reason why poor people
        1 – Eat bats, rats, snakes, dogs, cats, monkeys, out in the country in the third world
        2 – Have poor healthcare
        3 – Have a much lower life expectancy than we do.
        
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        May 9, 2020 2:41pm
      - PhilBest
        
        That was back under Mao’s great leap forward, and previous famines. Now, they eat bats as a curiosity, just like some of our rural county fairs offer some fare that requires a strong stomach
        
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        May 9, 2020 7:41pm
  - kowtow
    
    I’ll have to move to a flatter area……..
    
    It’ll make my future employment as a rickshaw coolie that much easier.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:33am
  - doggone7
    
    And people like us commenting like this would be carted off and ‘disappear.’
    
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    May 9, 2020 7:52pm
- RiP NZ
  
  Are you surprised though Captain?
  Teachers and their unions aren’t really known for leaning into work, and with the union so influential in Labours policies……
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:27am
- bc
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You really are a plonker, Captain Mainwaring.
  Yes there will be a group of teachers nervous about returning to work, they may be elderly, or have a compromised immune system, or any other reason. It will be impossible to have any kind of distancing in a classroom, so their concerns are valid. For you to dismiss them as ‘they don’t feel like it’ shows your true colours – a bitter, uncaring old fool.
  I suspect 99.9% of teachers, like the rest of us, can’t wait to get back to some kind of normality.
  And while I’m at it, clearly you don’t have school aged children, because if you did, you would know that Term 2 began after Anzac Day and teachers have been providing distance learning for their students, not “lounging at home on full pay”.
  So as well as being spiteful, Captain Mainwaring, you can add ignorant as well.
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:49am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Children are now waking up at 5pm. Schooling has been very severely disrupted–a sort of hibernation has occurred. This is evident in adults too.
    Re-start is not now simply turning on a tap. The longer restrictions remain the personal internal lockdown will continue. Some of us are still doing 7:45am-10pm but that can vary too from 9:30-11. Moods have definitely been affected–that’s known elsewhere as mental health issues. Teachers won’t be immune and I know a client’s trade staff are reluctant to return to “regular” work.
    Threads have been broken and I don’t see the economy recovering except by fits and starts. How can internal tourism substitute for external visitors? Those notional Kiwi tourists are needed to be back, as well, in their normal productive tasks.
    The Govt needs to ring a bloomin’ big bell, pull the subsidies and almost prod the people to return. It may not happen otherwise. For some, urgent other pay arrangements will need to be made. We should consider re-opening our borders immediately. A great deal of rah-rah will be required–that our COL does better that most. We built an economy based on visitors and foreign students. Cost the loss of that in terms of jobs and lives from the resultant stress. It’s a no brainer. Our elderly can risk a slight shortening of their lives to see their families in work and at school again.
    What can’t be cured (now) must be endured.
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:47am
    - MCos
      
      “ Children are now waking up at 5pm.”
      
      Thing have changed since you were at school.
      
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      May 9, 2020 12:15pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        They have changed in my household. Children can’t even be shaken awake.
        
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        May 9, 2020 2:52pm
  - artemisia
    
    What you say about teachers and pupils mostly does not apply to ECE, most of which centres have now been completely or almost closed for weeks.
    
    Looking after preschoolers at home and trying fit in some work as well – almost impossible.
    
    That’s a lot of ECE teachers on the sofa and still getting paid.
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:07am
    - MCos
      
      I have two granddaughters. One has been going to daycare this week. She could have started earlier.
      
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      May 9, 2020 12:20pm
      - artemisia
        
        We are involved with 2 centres, both private. Both are in theory open now but only for very limited numbers and focused on essential worker families only.
        
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        May 9, 2020 1:02pm
- yossarian
  
  Correction: how about the private sector getting paid at 80% while working at 110% for the past 5 weeks?
  
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  May 9, 2020 12:30pm
- Herodotus
  
  Words of an ignorant.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_73NU6OlNuw
  
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  May 9, 2020 2:07pm
dave_c_

This was a reply to ‘Captains post’ 8:08am

Corporates are just another form of government.
And like banks, they can change with impunity, just about everything which ends up disadvantaging the customer.
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May 9, 2020 8:13am
Tricati

The Prime Ministers office has instructed Ministers to ‘dismiss’ interviews on the late Friday ‘data dump’, at the same to David Parker is threatening to take Simon Bridges to Parliament’s Privileges Committee for dare asking about the legality of governments actions of locking down the country.
This would have to go down as one of the most disturbing days in our democracy, and a clear indication of the totalitarian rule we are now under.
With ‘student’ politicians at the helm, aided and abetted by a narcissistic self-serving Peters, we as a country are now in a dire state. With Robertson trying to manipulate our growing unemployment figures against the USA position, just shows the deceit they are using to hide the true economic picture. Once the wage subsidy ends, I predict we will see an accelerated growth in unemployment, so look out for the scheme to be extended at tax-payers cost.
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May 9, 2020 8:14am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  50 odd people were made redundant at my work yesterday. Luckily, I was not one of them, but I suspect this will be the pattern for the next few months.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:43am
  - Swifty
    
    Sheesh.
    
    Just terrible.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:21am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Indeed Swifty. I had been told unofficially that I would be retained a few days ago, but still, I feel very fortunate right now. This is just the beginning though. There is a lot of pain coming for a lot of people who happily endorsed the lock down. Lambs to the slaughter.
      
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      May 9, 2020 9:35am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    That’s not good. And I fear that after the 12 week wage subsidy is finished there could be a lot more.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:53am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      You won’t even have to wait that long Bobba. Employers, like TPG’s are giving people notice NOW, ahead of the wage subsidy expiring. The figure of 1000 per day signing up for benefits will grow exponentially over the next few weeks, and the financial reality of the situation will really start to bite.
      
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      May 9, 2020 9:57am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Correct Tony. Four weeks notice covered by the wage subsidy. That four weeks starts about now. As Captain Blackadder told his troops before they went over the top: “Good luck, everyone.”
        
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        May 9, 2020 10:07am
      - Dougal10
        
        Except if your partner still has a job you will be out in the cold with no support
        
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        May 9, 2020 10:27am
      - Chris R
        
        You are correct and what is worse for the Ardern Circus is that the bite will hit right in the depths of winter. The message must be: It isn’t Covid which destroyed the economy it is the idiocy of Ardern’s lot in response to the virus! The media and the “government” will have difficulty dealing with that simple truth.
        
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        May 9, 2020 10:47am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        We really are heading for a Winter of Discontent, and I suspect it will rebound on the government.
        
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        May 9, 2020 1:14pm
- kowtow
  
  They ( the gubmint) don’t like it up ’em.
  
  One senses their self perceived notion of how fucking perfect they are and of what a great job they’re doing saving us ( and the environment) has gone to their heads.
  
  And the proof of how great they are is in the likes of the Guardian , UN etc
  
  The danger with utopians , for that is what Jax is , is they really don’t believe in compromise or that there can be a different opinion . As to some other older members of her circus , well they’re just nasty down right self servers .
  
  ‘Nuf said.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:55am
- PhilBest
  
  “At taxpayers cost” – yep. But the first place to look for the money should be government spending, especially on its own employees. How much more of the “Auckland Council Rich List” kind of stuff is going on in every single government department? These people deserve to feel the pain far more than small business people “deserve” to feel the pain. We need people to be forced to be a lot more pragmatic in future about the kind of politics they support, there is far too much of induced suffering for “other people” without a moments reflection.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:57am
  - Pheobe
    
    Here are examples of the top bureaucrats who get to keep their full salary packet (figures from 2019):
    
    CEO of the Super Fund, $1,065,000
    CEO of ACC, $841,000.
    Reserve Bank Governor (pictured above), $825,000
    CEO of Housing New Zealand, $791,000
    Auckland University Vice-Chancellor, $760,000
    Police Commissioner, $709,000
    
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    May 9, 2020 2:35pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Everything, unfortunately exception, is at the taxpayers cost.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:59am
- Nickc2
  
  How many countries did Robertson have to trawl through before deciding to make a comparison with the US? Their economy is vastly different to ours. Why didn’t he do his comparison against Australia? Their economy is similar to ours.
  If he was to compare apples with apples into the future, he could compare us to Venezuela. That would make Comrade Cindy feel more at home.
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:02am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I don’t like politicians lying through “playing with numbers”. They fool themselves, proving they are either dishonest, i.e lacking integrity, or actual fools who have no business in executive governance.
    If they don’t take urgent action to open up NZ and kickstart a re-start they will encounter an unthinkable situation. That missing tourism/education segment has left us very seriously endangered.
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:57am
    - Nickc2
      
      Totally agree Kev!
      
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      May 9, 2020 1:42pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Tricati- I am not, and never have been, a fan of Ms Ardern as a politician, but have tried to maintain some respect for her position as Prime Minister.
  But this business of faceless spin doctors telling elected/appointed governance representatives that they should “dismiss” the questions and concerns of the people is a big step too far.
  I am more and more fearful that we, as a country,are now being held hostage by the most authoritarian and manipulative regime we have ever seen.
  And with the msm, the unions, academia, the “celebrities”, and young impressionable acolytes still under the spell, I don’t see much of a future for the productive, working people here.
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:05am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    This should be self righting within 6 months. The economic horrors of a bad re-start is going to make even their advisers run for the hills. Others will have to step in.
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:59am
- greybeard
  
  What amazes me is that the ‘data dump / gagging’ issue has already been relegated by Stuff to the sidelines, and I heard no mention of it at all on the 9am NewstalkZB news just now.
  I can’t wait for Mike Hosking’s views on Monday morning ! And Magic Talk.
  Is Jacinda being directed by H1 & H2 ?
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:10am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The relegation is probably not to spoil Robbo’s budgie outing this week.
    
    The issues of illegality don’t disappear. If not quickly addressed it suggests they no capacity to govern. Things are coming to a head.
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:05am
    - Papalazarou
      
      Is his budgie coming out? Why am I not surprised.
      
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      May 9, 2020 6:09pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Indeed, its a huge story, and is being deliberately ignored. Seems $50 million buys you quite a lot.
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:22am
    - oldfella
      
      It should be banner headlines and front page on both Stuffed and NZ Horrid with updates all day as the teams of investigative reporters they’ve assigned to dig through the documents uncover even more shocking details… nah… never going to happen.
      I don’t suppose tonight’s TV news will push back and actually cover it in depth. Sadly, they too will probably say nothing to see here, move along.
      I’d love to be proved wrong, but…
      
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      May 9, 2020 12:37pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      You surely don’t think Stuff and others reliant on the $50M are going to precipitate another ~~selection~~ election?
      
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      May 9, 2020 2:58pm
- oldpark
  
  @Tricati 8.14 am
  Not forgetting Parker the coward of the county known as a three time loser who couldnt get the Electoral seat he campaigned for . The electors didnt trust him he got tainted over some tax Records/Business Records when he had a Company in the deep South .Wants to take Simon Bridges to the priveliges committee all because he wants to know about the COL coverup on the unilateral Lockdown for at least Ten Days when there was no law to cover that type of decision. . Hard to believe he now virtually has even more Power than “Auntie Cindy” or the Meglamaniac Peters everybodys “friend”. Parker the Politician we get on the list because MMP has put him there . Thanks to the same lefties who also worship at the altar of a “Perfectionist”.Seems for the last couple of Months for NZs it is slowly being realised we are living in a Paradise run by fools and a complete attack on the democratic rights of the Population .How or why can the clown Parker get away with Refusing to release the Crown Law legal opinion on the now alleged Illegal Unilateral Lockdown in the earlier days of that decision .
  Think the taste and smell of the Aroma of Dictatorship Power from Venezuela ,North Korea, Cuba has certainly arrived in NZ .The last couple of months with some of the Dictatorial Decisions has Proven that .
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:03am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    As a proper Lawyer and former Crown Prosecutor, I suggest the best response from Bridges should be:
    “bring it on”
    
    Parker has always been a self-righteous slimy little twat. Labour seems to breed for the type.
    
    Expect no different from him.
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:24am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      I know right. Who’s going to look worse to an even moderately intelligent observer:
      
      – The guy who won’t publicly release the information that justifies such catastrophic economic fallout? or
      
      – The guy who is asking to see it?
      
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      May 9, 2020 12:18pm
artemisia

Grant Robertson’s Budget 2020 is well and truly targeted at September 19.

Climate change, equality, Maori and Pacific are priorities. Plus “he has revealed that one of the Government’s priorities will be strengthening and improving the public sector”.

Targeting = more taxpayer money.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12330212
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May 9, 2020 8:17am
- Chuck Bird
  
  For those interested in the truth about climate change watch the Planet of the Humans.
  
  It shows many of what the Greens world wide have been promoting is damaging the environment. Some are corrupt but the majority are just stupid.
  
  https://planetofthehumans.com/
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:51am
  - PhilBest
    
    And the reaction from the woke Left to Moore, is very telling. What they hate the most, is being exposed as useful idiots. It is almost as if the useful idiocy is the whole point they are devoted to. “Green tech” will happen anyway because it makes sense and there is money to be made in it, but as soon as politicians start picking winners and there is free money to be had, the resulting distortions to the whole economic system have worse consquences than the alleged gains.
    
    On the subject of urban planning, it is the same thing. We must have growth boundaries!!! We can’t just apply fiscal incentives and let people change their behavior in whatever way they want, no, we must enable a racket where property and finance billionaires absolutely cream it. But try and point this out to woke lefties? They don’t want to get it.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:01am
  - Inandout
    
    CB, is that the despicable Michael Moore who has the Guardian in a tizz? I guess he has finally realised to make money you don’t remain woke.
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/07/michael-moore-far-right-climate-crisis-deniers-film-environment-falsehoods
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:10am
    - Komata
      
      Inandout@0910
      
      So what has suddenly changed Mr ‘I’m a proud and loud climate change (and anti-Trump) activist’ Moore’s perspective?
      
      As leopards of his ilk don’t EVER change their spots, it may be necessary to follow the money and see who has ‘influenced’ the ‘alteration’…
      
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      May 9, 2020 10:33am
  - Nickc2
    
    Agree Chuck. I would like to see it made compulsory viewing in schools until this green novelty wears off. However, the Government would never do it for obvious reasons.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:28am
  - RPP
    
    The counter to Planet of the Humans I have already seen on Yt, is that the footage is 10 years old so it is moot.
    Solar panels and turbines for everyone comrade!
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:23am
  - namron
    
    Thanks Chuck.
    Great viewing with some shocking revelations.
    Must send it to a few greenies I know.
    
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    May 9, 2020 1:11pm
- Swifty
  
  Chilling.
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:55am
- Nickc2
  
  Oh, the old ‘increase the size of the public service’ trick. That worked well for Queensland didn’t it? They are in the financial shit big time.
  
  In case Robertson doesn’t know, bean counters don’t grow beans.
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:09am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Vive le revelucion
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:39am
- Surely Knott
  
  On the budget: One of the big spend discussions is state housing. I would ask do we still have the need? If foreign students and immigration is stopped, we will have numerous empty apartments and houses and overseas investors pulling out. Re Nationals proposal for expensing capital expenditure. Sure for some businesses buying machinery is a key investment in growth and efficiency. But capital expenditure is not as relevant a stimulus to the tech and knowledge economy, with software industry still being something that can be sold overseas even in a shutdown. Finally put climate change spend on hold – their will be no need for climate change conferences, and focus on local.
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:51am
  - artemisia
    
    We definitely need more state (taxpayer subsidised) housing, regardless of empty rentals out there. And the reason is that every year up to 30,000 cases are determined in the Tenancy Tribunal, almost all brought by landlords against tenants. It is public information. Those tenants are not going to be top of the pops to landlords.
    
    And that number does not include cases that went to non-public mediation or tenants that were just quietly added to black lists. Bearing in mind over half of tenancies are looked after by property managers with their own not so little black lists.
    
    Over several years those lists are long, and the tenants on them will have few options other than social housing. Quite coincidentally, the taxpayer subsidises income related rent by average of $300 per week. Plus there is the capital cost and ongoing maintenance and admin. What’s not to like, as long as the taxpayers are ignored?
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:29am
- emmess
  
  That useless fool Robertson has one job to do, that he consider when writing the budget.
  
  Get Kiwis back to work!!!
  Your government (and the CCP) is responsible for destroying all the jobs.
  
  Not all this shit, which is going to hinder progress towards that goal
  
  • Just Transition – supporting New Zealanders in the transition to a climate-resilient, sustainable and low emission economy
  • Future of work – Enabling all New Zealanders to benefit from new technologies and lift productivity through innovation
  • Maori and Pacific – Lifting Maori and Pacific incomes, skills and opportunities
  • Child Wellbeing – Reduce child poverty and improving child wellbeing
  • Physical and Mental Wellbeing – Supporting improved health outcomes for all New Zealanders.
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:48am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    FFS. How horrifying. I’m oscillating betwen fear and anger.
    
    Just take one example. Maori incomes can only be increased if they improve education outcomes, take responsibility for health and stop giving each other the bash. Absent those things the only way to increase Maori incomes is to give them handouts. Im sure the government won’t say that but there is no getting away from those constraints.
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:08am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Ah… that was for the 2020 WELLBEING budget as planned in February…
    Since then Robertson has warned us…
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/416076/grant-robertson-budget-2020-will-be-far-from-business-as-usual
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:57am
- MCos
  
  “Grant Robertson’s Budget 2020 is well and truly targeted at September 19.”
  While this year is unusual, every election year budget I can recall is “is well and truly targeted” at the election.
  Having said that it’s as obvious as night follows day that election year or not this is no time for an austerity budget. There won’t be big cuts in the three big ticket items education, welfare, finance & health that soak up three quarters of revenue. Maybe more this year.
  
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  May 9, 2020 12:37pm
- doggone7
  
  Every single budget in every single election year is targeted at the election date.
  
  Suggesting Robertson’s doing something different is just silly.
  
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  May 9, 2020 7:55pm
oldpark

Talking NZs Prime Ministers elected or selected and their nick names . We had “Piggy” Muldoon, “Spud” Bolger, “Don- Key” . Also an Attack and threat by some clown on a record threatening to rape the daughter of John Key .None of that affected the stance of the North Korean type of newspaper known as Aunty Herald as it suited their far left agenda.
A couple of days ago an article in the North Korean Edition of the NZ Herald put the boot into the Auckland Blues Rugby Team virtually referred to as right wingers because they had the gall and the temerity to refer to the Peters selected NZs PM Ardern as “Auntie Cindy” . Sounds like the crime of our time, maybe even the Century . What next NZ Herald will you call for a public hanging whenever the Peters selected woman Ms/ Ardern NZs PM is called “Auntie Cindy”.Get a life and a real newspaper and stop daily spinning out the far left fake news and lies you are famous for .
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May 9, 2020 8:23am
- herb1
  
  Don’t forget Kind and Perfect Ms Ardern is a friend of the low life who wrote the song about raping Keys daughter , and refused to condemn him.
  Oh how different the reality of this woman is to her international perception
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:47am
  - namron
    
    smallish correction – “Miss” Ardern!
    
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    May 9, 2020 1:35pm
- PhilBest
  
  Someone needs to do a spoof meme where as Jacinda comes into the briefing room, there is a chorus of “goooooood mooooooorning, mzzzzz Arrdeeerrrrrnnnnnnn”…….
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:03am
  - wilderbeast
    
    ?
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:43am
  - Nickc2
    
    I would like to see that.
    
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    May 9, 2020 1:38pm
The Proper Ghandi

Can anybody tell me what the aggrieved minorities who agitate against the status quo and injustices want? Because they can’t.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgrtLpFZd3s&lc=UgxS4WDXZbPc5pJWtdN4AaABAg
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May 9, 2020 8:34am
cas

Back in the good old days there used to be a game called bullshit bingo. The words in it were related to the rubbish spouted on strategic planning. But we could play it again in relation to the Govt and Covid 19. Word that spring to mind include go hard, go early; tough decisions had to be made; gold standards of tracing; world leading; Other readers I am sure can add enough that we could fill up more than 1 bullshit bingo board.
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May 9, 2020 8:39am
- kowtow
  
  covid is my first choice , created by the UN so the Comrades could wriggle off the BBQ skewer.
  
  Wuflu is what it is.
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:00am
- kowtow
  
  be kind
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:02am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  The first, setting the benchmark was, ‘the most open and transparent . . .’
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:02am
- MCos
  
  “Back in the good old days there used to be a game called bullshit bingo.”
  Never knew that. Must have been before my time.
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:12am
- artemisia
  
  Ms Ardern has helpfully provided someof the official BS list.
  
  “Perfect would have been the public enemy of the good,” and, “Tough calls had to be made and we stand by them.”
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/leak-jacinda-ardern-gags-ministers-on-discussing-covid-19-response.html
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:36am
  - namron
    
    Have a look at miss ardern’s ear-rings.
    Some of you older people might be reminded of those toilet chains we had on the cistern up on the wall above the loo!
    I might have to email her and suggest she wear those ear-rings more often as she is giving many older people a welcome laugh each time she does!
    
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    May 9, 2020 1:48pm
  - zulumonster
    
    I wish she’d make up her mind. She also said she’s a perfectionist …
    
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    May 9, 2020 6:59pm
dave_c_

It is my impression that governments may well be in the process of switching their story from “Flatten The Curve” To “Lockdown Until Vaccine”.
One only has to understand what is happening here in NZ. No guarantees that we will be heading into Level 2, then Level 1, then Level zero.
Au contraire – the government seems to be indicating that we may see-saw up and down over the coming months.
They also dick around with the definition of each level willy-nilly, and for example going back to level 2, will in fact be a Level 2.8, or 9.
Bugger the economy, their agenda is clear – transition the population into total lockdown under a growing authoritarian communist style state.
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May 9, 2020 8:43am
- Wired-one
  
  Ardern also stated recently that we will be in level one at a minimum until a vaccine arrives. A vaccine may never arrive, just think about that.
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:41am
  - Dougal10
    
    If they get a vaccine it will probably need to be a yearly administered one so no level 0 ever under this fascist regime
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:35am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      If we get a vaccine it will just be combined with the annual flu shot. Two years from now the corona virus will be in the background like flu. People will get it and hundreds of old people will die from it without any reporting and nobody noticing. Remember on average 95 people die in New Zealand EVERY DAY. Most of them elderly, most of them long sick, and many of them from respiratory illness.
      
      The only way the idiocy of what had happened will be a Royal Commission with wide terms of reference. And that will require a change of government.
      
      Oh but we do have a Royal Commission into the Christchurch shooting which will run for two years at a cost of many millions of dollars. And at the end of the day what happened was a very bad guy did a very bad thing and he will live in a cell for the next 50 years. That’s about it.
      
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      May 9, 2020 11:20am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    NZ won’t survive another 6 months of level 2.
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:12am
- KevO'Brien
  
  That should be clear within the next 3 months.
  
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  May 9, 2020 11:11am
- oldpark
  
  @dave c 8.43 am
  
  Been reading about so called Vaccines. They were/are still trying to work out why so many people died of the so called Coronavirus in North Italy . Yes many many under 70. Now it has been discovered that the new Flu Vaccine had also 4 strains of the Coronavirus added to the new Flu Vaccine . Go figure that one .
  
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  May 9, 2020 11:18am
  - MCos
    
    Here come the conspiracy theories
    
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    May 9, 2020 12:40pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Depends on what is meant by “Coronavirus”. There are a number of corona viruses circulating that are a significant component of the “cold” viruses in circulation. As an estimate, around 60% of what are normally thought of as “colds” are caused by a rhinovirus of one sort or another, around 35% by a corona virus (different to SARS-CoV-2 but still a CV), and 5 % by various types of adenoviruses.
    
    The rhinoviruses have a structure somewhat like the flu and they mutate strains by mixing and matching genes and segments. Thus they are very difficult to produce vaccines against. The circulating CV’s though are, like SARS-CoV-2 much less variable – they mutate but on a single roughly 30K base pair RNA segment. Most point mutations don’t have an impact on protein synthesis, and those that do are likely to be detrimental. But some do change function and get replicated. It is easier to generate an effective vaccine against these CV’s, so maybe that’s why one was included.
    
    Just as an FYI as this was something I came across recently, one reason that point mutations may not lead to any change in protein expression is that (and any expert should correct this if I’ve misunderstood) in a viral gene protein components (amino acids, aa’s) are specified by 4 base pair units, but the 4th base pair in each unit is actually not used and the first 3 bp’s define the aa. So a mutation of any 4th bp has no impact. Also there at least some components aa’s are specified by multiple 3 unit codes so some changes do not change the aa.
    
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    May 9, 2020 1:01pm
Swifty

A couple of times now I’ve mentioned the predicament we have over work visa holders who now find themselves out of work.

Again today we have unions calling for them to receive benefits from taxpayers.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/416133/unemployed-migrant-workers-struggle-amid-covid-19-crisis

(I see one of their poster boys Chinese bricklayer Mao Qunyou says he’s been doing ‘cashies’ since being laid off 5 or 6 months ago – I do trust he’ll have been paying tax on that income.)

Again the story, this time from Mikee Santos an organiser at the First Union’s Network of Migrants, is that “it was unfair that social benefits available to New Zealanders are not accessible to migrant workers.

“At the end of the day, we’re all workers here, migrant workers and New Zealand workers. Why is that in the time of a crisis, there’s a part of New Zealand workforce seems to be marginalised.”

Santos said food parcels were not sustainable for migrant workers who are likely to be out of job for months, and more of them might lose their job when the government’s wage subsidy ends in June.”

I think the government needs to be very careful here. Everyone is now saying that our unemployment levels could increase by several hundred thousand in the coming months and stay very high for, I’ve read, several years. We also don’t know how many NZers will return from overseas in the coming months looking for work – I hear there are 600,000 – 700,000 NZers in Aussie alone, let alone the rest of the world. Just imagine what situation we’d be in if even 10%, 20% or 30% of these folk decided that NZ was the best place to ride out the storm over the next several years. We could conceivably have hundreds of thousands of Kiwis returning home all needing housing, health care, schooling for the kids and of course many if not most of them will be looking for work – and all competing with the hundreds of thousands of unemployed NZers already here for the limited supply of work and jobs available.

How much would it cost to give benefits to work visa holders without work? I hear there are between 200-300,000 work visa holders in NZ. In very approximate numbers if 100,000 of them are or became unemployed and received benefits of let’s say $600 per week (job seeker, plus accommodation plus some for kids) – that amounts to $3Bn annually. Yes, that’s right, Mikee Santos (who incidentally has only been here a handful of years himself) is just casually calling for New Zealanders to stump up with what could easily add up to $3Bn a year and on top of everything else we will be funding! For what? To be ‘fair’? Because at the end of the day we’re all workers and it is the NZ taxpayer’s responsibility to fund workers wherever they come from?

I see too in the article that another chap talks at length about funding his family back home. Would that mean therefore that some of the monies we’d be paying to these work visa holders would just instantly be remitted offshore? In this case the Philippines?

My position is that no-one must be left to starve. Work visa holders without work and who have no savings should be able to access a benefit to keep food on the table and a roof over their head. But there’s a limit – 2-3 months max is generous. But coincident with this – work visa holders without work should be looking to close down their affairs here and hightail it home. They must not be allowed to believe that there is an open cheque book for them here in NZ. Further, after three months any benefits should be stopped and the government should insist they return home.

By doing so not only will this reduce a lot of competition for Kiwis searching for fewer and fewer jobs it will have the added bonus of reducing pressure on our housing, health system and allow the government’s priorities to focus on New Zealand citizens and residents which must be their first priority.

The question is however – will this government have the wisdom, financial discipline and guts to stand up to their union backers?
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May 9, 2020 8:49am
- artemisia
  
  The acting Immigration Minister in Australia has advised New Zealanders there to go home if they need but don’t qualify for social security. Estimated at up to 200,000 not counting the similar number who only qualify for a once only 6 months welfare payment.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12330664
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:42am
  - Swifty
    
    Thanks artemesia.
    
    Those are big numbers.
    
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    May 9, 2020 9:48am
    - artemisia
      
      Big numbers, potentially, but of course not all will be out of work.
      
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      May 9, 2020 2:06pm
- oldpark
  
  Yes in a couple of months maybe three there will be blood in the streets over the burning down of NZs economy and massive unemployment and the bunch of expensive ashes in the name of a Virus which in a reality check maybe has caused circa 5 deaths for under 70s. A cynic might say or think all in the name of lefty controlling ideaology.Surely not.Seems the jury is still out on that one . Probably an answer will be provided by some of the affected . Like next door neighbour is suffering under a recession ,until the jury members realise they are in a depression . Yes blood in the streets by actions out of control by a bunch of Peters selected no hopers.Court proceedings and jury findings still in Session. .Arrrrrgggghhh.
  
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  May 9, 2020 11:57am
- MCos
  
  “My position is that no-one must be left to starve.“
  
  That’s big of you.
  
  I read the other day of a bunch of Thais stuck in NZ itching to get home, but they can’t, for whatever reason.
  There are no direct flights to Bangkok & maybe they’re not allowed to transit through Oz.
  So telling people to bugger off is all very well.
  They were kids, probably from well off families so when they get home they are fine.
  Other workers have nothing to go home to.
  
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  May 9, 2020 12:50pm
  - Swifty
    
    “That’s big of you.”
    
    Yes, I could have worded that better.
    
    “Other workers have nothing to go home to.”
    
    Still waiting for your point.
    
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    May 9, 2020 1:43pm
Liberty

75years after VE day we are still living under a control freak.
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May 9, 2020 8:52am
- pdm
  
  Worth more than one uptick – take 100 from me.
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:00am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Was Peter Fraser really a control freak? Or just a talented, hard-working and influential statesman?
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:51am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Troll alert
    
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    May 9, 2020 10:00am
  - KiWombat
    
    He spent time behind bars, and when released actually achieved something. Perhaps more should follow his example !
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:20am
  - Liberty
    
    At times you really have to question.what our parents achieved in ww2. Sure they stopped Hitler and his evil empire. But we conveniently forget Hitler was a saint compared to Stalin. While
    The free world went back to normality. Stalin carried on exterminating all in sundry. It’s never been cool to talk about it.
    Maybe it’s because in the last 75yrs NZ has had in one form or another a socilaist Government.
    Although in the past our PMs have been rose red to tinge of pink they have keep their power
    In balance. Sadly that has changed. Muldoon lost it in the end. Clark was a witch Fortunately Key brought 9 yrs of stability. Now we are controlled by an appointed Dear Leader who has succumbed to the power of office. Illegally forcing the country into lockdown.
    Banning simple pleasures (unless a member of the central committee) such as going for a fish. Playing Golf. A trip to the beach, a bike ride.
    The peasants were forced to suffer food lines. All controlled by her complying police.
    Have you ever wondered why it was so urgent for Dear leader to substantially increase
    The size of the police. Had nothing to do with law and order. Crimes are now labours
    friends, they are going to be given the vote. And select people can have roadblocks.
    I suspect it has got more to do with power over the people.
    It is starting to sound like 1930s Germany.
    
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    May 9, 2020 1:14pm
Andrei

Good old fashioned common sense is a rare commodity in these troubled times.

And its far more effective than panic in deal with a panademic

Belarus deaths per million 13
UK deaths per million 460
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May 9, 2020 9:08am
lastmanstanding

A quick summary so far

1. MOH ill prepared
2. Closed borders too late.
3. Quarantined incoming too late.
4. Minister of Health breached lockdown multiple times.
5. Put up wrong Bill in Parliament.
6.Acted illegally as regards lockdown.
7. Police acted illegally as regards stopping motorists.
8, Rest Homes not protected.

Results.
1. Suicides will increase at least 50% to around 1000 per annum (based on info released by Australian Government).
2. Government debt will increase to at least 50% of GDP compared to 20%.
3. Unemployment will ballon to who knows what based on conflicting numbers but IMHO at least 15% from 4%.
4. Recovery will take years more so if current Government re-elected.

No doubt Ive missed some points feel free to add.
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May 9, 2020 9:09am
Inandout

lastman, we who actually use our brains can see the failures of this lot, but the unthinking and newly created welfare fed voters don’t.
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May 9, 2020 9:14am
Paulus

Is it me but I am getting tired of the $50 million media editors promoting apparently nearly all from women (probably teachers) only letters in which we are exhorted to be overwhelmingly grateful for Ardern in showing exceptional leadership in the current economic and virus problems and using Trump as their anti argument.
This morning the Salvation Army top man and a number of other organisations – particularly Maori, have expressed the view that people were being heavily disadvantaged BEFORE the virus.
New Zealand has been on a serious economic galloping spiral for many months before the virus which a has only exacerbated this fall.
Reading also Robertson at a speech yesterday in Tauranga he is still in cloud cuckoo land but fails to see that (unless he leads the Labour Party next).
Is it Ardern’s socialist/communist influence or has he always been a dreamer ?
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May 9, 2020 9:14am
Tony Stuart

Tova O’Brien on Newshub last night:

“A Friday document dump with zero accountability. A PM gagging her ministers. And all of this from a govt that pays lip service to being open and transparent, when really, this is about as cynical as it gets.”

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/leak-jacinda-ardern-gags-ministers-on-discussing-covid-19-response.html

Has any Press gallery journalist been as strident in their criticism of the PM and her government since they took office? Not that I can recall.

A week ago, Labour operatives were leaking the UMR poll to anyone who would listen, and pushing rumours of a leadership coup in National. Now we know why; the dark clouds were on the horizon.

There have been three significant leaks this week; two to Barry Soper, and yesterday’s one to Tova O’Brien. Someone within the Coalition isn’t happy, and wants to see Labour fail. Ask yourself this; who would benefit right now from a falling out between Labour and New Zealand First, and haven’t we seen this before?
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May 9, 2020 9:23am
- kowtow
  
  TVNZ and RNZ have both covered the cynical dump .
  
  They don’t like being played , any more than the rest of us do . Maybe they resent it more as they’ve seen themselves on the same side for so long.
  
  They don’t like it up ’em.
  
  Is the effect of the self prescribed fairy dust wearing off the Media Party ?
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:28am
- MrTips
  
  Now look here Tony, that’s a scurrilous, baseless accusation. It’s exactly the sort of dirty politics we’ve been subjected too for far too long in NZ. Just the other day, I told Jacinda, “go and talk to your master……..what? That wasn’t Jacinda?”
  
  “Now look here Sonny….”
  
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  May 9, 2020 9:40am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Where is this document dump?
  
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  May 9, 2020 11:18am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Newshub has summarised some of it here:
    
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/what-you-need-to-know-from-government-s-mega-covid-19-document-dump.html
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:43am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Thanks. I do like to archive some source material and would like to add this.
      
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      May 9, 2020 3:01pm
- EssenX
  
  Ardern is about to lose the election.
  
  It takes some doing to be a one-term PM in an MMP environment, but I feel her fall will be as fast as her rise.
  
  If she wants to survive, she needs to “go hard and go early” to correct the direction of the ship. Relying on “we’ve got 55%” and “we don’t need to explain” is both complacent and condescending, and if they don’t adjust they will lose.
  
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  May 9, 2020 1:19pm
kowtow

Bloomfield.

Maoris can decide whether to hongi or not , they’ve shown they can manage this plague.

Whiteys , do as we tell you or as Top Plod said we’ll put you up in a cold cell for the night.

Unite Against Covid, yeah right.
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May 9, 2020 9:25am
- oldfella
  
  Surely touching noses in a hongi, however briefly, risks inhaling all kinds of (dodgy) stuff. And in the middle of an airbourne pandemic… ?
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:09am
  - namron
    
    The point of a hongi is supposedly the “sharing of breath” -which surely is more than a “peck on the cheek.”
    
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    May 9, 2020 2:15pm
- Jules99
  
  And when they get sick it’s racism and they want priority treatment over pakeha. You know, treatment from the colonialists who imposed their inappropriate medical model on the natives’ spiritual way of life.
  
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  May 9, 2020 11:55am
theoldbloke

Remember these 3 numbers

1. 78,469
2. 47,128
3. 72,455

Why are these numbers so important?
1. Is the number of deaths reported in USA as Covid 19 deaths
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

2. Is the number of deaths Centre of Disease control attributes to Covid 19.
From 1st February to May 8th
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/

3. Is the number of deaths, Centre of Disease Control attributes to Pneumonia
From 1st February to May 8th
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/COVID19/

Interesting isn’t it 🙂
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May 9, 2020 9:29am
Tasman Terror

Transcript of interview by CNN from yesterday. Ms Ardern your government is being undemocratic , do you agree? I will come back to you with an answer after a working group comes out of the waiting room to give us a year of delivery with a gold standard because we are all in this together and we are going hard and going fast and remembering to be kind. Ms Ardern what does that mean ? I will come back to you on that. When Ms Ardern? After the working group reports. When will that be? At least 18 months because we have to appoint a QC for Christ’s sake. What will the terms of reference be? I will come back to you on that. When? I will come back to you on that. Are you a robot? I will come back to you on that. Would you like your packet of crayons now? Yes because I need to be kind and draw the tooth fairy to a gold standard because he is in this together with us. When will your drawing be ready? I will get back to you on that but I will go hard and fast. Do you enjoy being Prime Minister? Am I? Thank you Ms Ardern you are a great world leader. I know, I read the same reports, but where is the world. I will come back to you on that Ms Ardern. These crayons aren’t gold standard.
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May 9, 2020 9:45am
- wilderbeast
  
  Pure gold
  
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  May 9, 2020 3:29pm
MrTips

Random question for the day:

Clint V Smith left the Prime Ministers office as Senior Communications Strategist to set up Victor Strategy and Communications on 16 Oct 2019.

Why would he do that? What happened around that time to prompt him doing that? He’d been there for a while – did they have a falling out?
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May 9, 2020 9:46am
- RPP
  
  Is he the guy who worked in the PMs office and became a lobbyist? Then the PM acted upon his lobbying? Because he knew what to lobby her on, given his previous access to the PM?
  And the media memory holed it
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:17am
  - MrTips
    
    No, he’s the Clint of “Hey Clint…..”
    I found it odd he just left. What was happening at that time that might prompt that?
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:13am
- ex-golfer
  
  No – he has left a few holes in his Twitter profile.
  He worked for KiwiBuild in some sort of communications role from 2018 but left there suddenly in 2019. I think that’s when he set up this new sole-charge thing he’s doing.
  
  So he definitely didn’t leave the PMs office in 2019 – because he wasn’t working there anyway!
  
  Strange that he doesn’t want the KiwiBuild thing on his profile (#sarc)
  
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  May 9, 2020 11:45am
- Durden
  
  Not a criticism. Just a comment.
  
  I have paid attention to a number of posts in the vein from you. I do believe that you know things. But your comments have been too cryptic/subtle for me to decipher even after fair amount of effort. A few times I have tried to dig further to see who/what is being alluded to, I have failed. Maybe your comments are directed at people who are in the know?
  
  Maybe a bit more info for us plebes might be required for these comments to make sense.
  
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  May 9, 2020 11:47am
oldfella

Meanwhile, let’s not forget this, insideous threat.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/08/we-need-to-stop-the-spread-of-big-tech-censorship/
Aren’t we lucky that in NZ we don’t need big tech to censor stuff to avoid embarrassing the govt. We have the local MSM. Heroes of the revolution, every single one!
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May 9, 2020 9:55am
Maggie Pie

We were sat there last night watching an Encore screening of ‘Jones & Credlin’ on Sky85. It’s obvious they’re both very much in the camp of Prime Minister Scott Morrison.
My partner couldn’t help but make the observation that Scott was probably lucky not to have been christened ‘Howard’.
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May 9, 2020 10:06am
- wilderbeast
  
  Love Peta Credlin though. We need someone like her here
  
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  May 9, 2020 3:27pm
Happychappy

After what has happened over laws being broken concerning CORID – 19 can you expect Winston Peters Labour and the Greens to be honest and get Immigration right after the power they have been given.
Inside sweeping powersto change Visa rules,unclogthe Immigration System, or just freeze the current mess in place.
Immigration Lawyer Alastair Mc’Clymont said while the ” fear and paranoia ” was justified the new Legislation would also give the Government greater ability to fix major Immigration issues without having to rely on a major policy change.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/news/2020/05/09/1158481/hopes-and-fears-for-new-immigration-powers
How could trust this Government to be honest when they can’t even be Transparent.
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May 9, 2020 10:09am
- Ruahine
  
  Wait for a quiet announcement that a certain Iranian has received Permanent Residency. It is all just a deceitful smoke screen for incompetence.
  
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  May 9, 2020 11:38am
Poppa

Bloody fog in the Waikato!!

No wind to shift it either. Lawn will have to wait until later, fence painting will need to wait until its dry

What does one do? May as well go back to bed & have more nightmares about this collection of clowns pretending to be a govt
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May 9, 2020 10:25am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Yes, my partner was just saying it was lucky Opening Day was last Saturday. The weather was real shite.
  He’s hoping to head back there next weekend given a bit of wind and rain.
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:44am
Fletch

America watch. We now know from released documents, that Obama was in on the attempt to take down Flynn.

“Yates first learned of the December 2016 calls between [LTG Michael] Flynn and [Russian Ambassador to the United States, Sergey] Kislyak on January 5, 2017, while in the Oval Office. Yates, along with then FBI-Director James Comey, then-CIA Director John Brennan, and then-Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, were at the White House to brief members of the Obama Administration on the classified Intelligence Community Assessment on Russian Activities in Recent U.S Elections. President Obama was joined by his National Security Advisor, Susan Rice, and others from the National Security Council,” the document states.

“After the briefing, Obama dismissed the group but asked Yates and Comey to stay behind. Obama started by saying he had ‘learned of the information about Flynn’ and his conversation with Kislyak about sanctions. Obama specified he did not want any additional information on the matter, but was seeking information on whether the White House should be treating Flynn any differently, given the information. At that point, Yates had no idea what the President was talking about, but figured it out based on the conversation. Yates recalled Comey mentioning the Logan Act, but can’t recall if he specified there was an ‘investigation,'” it continues.

That phone call became part of the FBI’s justification to interview Flynn on January 24, 2017. Ahead of that meeting, notes show agents planned to get Flynn to lie in order to pursue criminal prosecution or get him fired.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/05/07/new-doj-documents-show-president-obama-was-in-on-the-flynn-takedown-n2568420

It’s amazing that Trump ever made it into office, what with all the intelligence agencies working to take him down before he was inaugurated, and after to try and remove him. This is the biggest coup in American history. And there are people walking around, like Sztrok, Page, Brennan, Clapper, Comey, and yes, even Obama, who should be in prison.

Timeline –

https://thefederalist.com/2020/05/08/obama-biden-oval-office-meeting-on-january-5-was-key-to-entire-anti-trump-operation/
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May 9, 2020 10:38am
- Maggie Pie
  
  HIYAA Fletch! Off topic i know, but just wanted to say thanks for that heads-up you gave gave us on those Louisanna Chicken Portions. Finally found stock at NW and gave them 50min in the oven last night. ABFAB :B
  
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  May 9, 2020 10:58am
  - Fletch
    
    Haha, no problem! I suppose you can buy authentic KFC now anyway. ?
    
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    May 9, 2020 11:01am
- mikenmildagain
  
  In Trumpland, the criminals like Flynn and Trump himself are the real victims, and those who reacted to their treasonous dealings are the ones who should get incarcerated.
  
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  May 9, 2020 2:41pm
  - herb1
    
    You’re not really troubled by evidence are you Mike.
    One can only hope for your sake , someone dosent make a fake accusation against you that ruins your life. Evidence eh who needs it when you’re a leftie
    
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    May 9, 2020 4:47pm
Inandout

The fly in Jacinda’s ointment will always be Winston, who notably wasn’t gagged on speaking about the WuFlu19. She must lose sleep at night wondering what Winston will come out with.
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May 9, 2020 10:58am
- chaos
  
  Wuflu was created in a lab in the USA before Fauci had it moved to wuhan.
  
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  May 9, 2020 11:09am
- MrTips
  
  Haha….I think you’ll find Winston’s hands are VERY clean. LOL.
  
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  May 9, 2020 11:15am
- Prince
  
  He needs her more than she needs him
  
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  May 9, 2020 12:36pm
Fletch

The Doobie Brothers, playing Black Water from lock down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZLY2ht9iBM
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May 9, 2020 11:04am
- Swifty
  
  Very good.
  
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  May 9, 2020 11:18am
- [email protected]
  
  Very, very good. Thanks.
  
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  May 9, 2020 6:33pm
Jack5

The quasi-republic of Aotearoa/Jacintralia has begun subsidising non-print news reporters in the regions, with ~~Red Radio~~ Radio NZ the manager. At present there are only a handful of scribblers, but Labour will be planning for more.

Meanwhile in Canada, the Government is funding 150 reporting jobs across the country.

The socialist nationalisation of news is occurring in many Western countries. The Swedes are subsidising the second most popular newspaper in each main city. The idea is to stimulated competition.

In broke, Leftist NZ, our reporters will be on the State payroll.

Canada’s news subsidy scheme:

https://www.niemanlab.org/2020/05/in-canada-a-government-program-to-support-local-news-tries-to-determine-whos-most-deserving/
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May 9, 2020 11:10am
chaos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLi6ZrFp6vQ

* Robert F Kennedy Jr talks vaccines, Dr Fauci, family history and JFk assassination with Patrick Bet-David*
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May 9, 2020 11:11am
- Steve Todd
  
  Blimmin’ heck, chaos – 2 hrs 20 mins? No thanks.
  
  Couldn’t you have given us a brief summary of what was discussed?
  
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  May 9, 2020 12:55pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    RFK Jr is a prominent anti-vaxxer loon.
    
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    May 9, 2020 2:36pm
Pete George

Suppression has lapsed on the two habeas corpus dorkus who failed in both the High Court and Court of Appeal versus the Prime Minister et al.

DERMOT GREGORY NOTTINGHAM AND ROBERT EARLE MCKINNEY

https://courtsofnz.govt.nz/assets/cases/Nottingham-v-Ardern-PCCivil.pdf

These two have an extensive legal history, most of it unsuccessful but at great cost to victims and the Crown – some background here: Nottingham, McKinney named as habeas corpus lockdown litigants

The two have given up on their habeas corpus approach (Nottingham also recently failed with habeas corpus to try to reduce his home detention sentence) but have filed a for judicial review in the High Court on Thursday. I hope they have to provide security for costs.
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May 9, 2020 11:33am
ex-golfer

Can someone please explain to me why people need to “social distance” on a plane and yet community sport can be played?

The inconsistencies coming out of this Govts announcements are doing my head in.
We’ve done everything we needed to do to suppress COVID. Now is time to remove all the restrictions, protect the vulnerable only and let New Zealanders get on with their lives, making up their own minds about the so-called “risks” they want to take.

Don’t want to sit on a plane next to a complete stranger? Fine – find some other way to travel. Let the rest of us go about our business as we choose to do and the ones that have been sucked in by the fear and alarm spread by Jacinda and her cronies can stay stuck away in their bubble for all I care.
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May 9, 2020 11:39am
I remember when

AND THE WINNER IS!!!
Faroe Islands is now totally clear of Covid-19 cases.
187 Cases Recovered 187 Cases.
Population around 61,000 of whom 8403 have been tested. This gives them the world leading total of 171,971 per million.
Veterinary scientist Debes Christiansen whose laboratory is geared to test for viral infections in Salmon, adapted it to test for Covid-19. He purchased extra ingredients required to test humans using sources not available to their Health System.
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May 9, 2020 11:51am
curry4me

https://apnews.com/ae1ad252bb13490db2ceffc5d17b6d92
I wonder what’s in store for Flynns accusers now?
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May 9, 2020 12:06pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-8gzU2e5xA
CCP is losing friends. Who’d have thunk it?
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May 9, 2020 12:06pm
Komata

Poppa@1025

Re: ‘What does one do?’

Comes here and join the rest of the fog-bound (sorry, ‘House bound’ / Confined to Barracks) of us in the ‘conversation ‘about’ (not with) her ‘Ladyship’ St. Jacinda of Morrisville, Fush and Chup expert to the werld…

That’s what one does

Oh, and BTW, the fog has lifted (at least over the part of the Waikato where I live); I thought you might like to know…
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May 9, 2020 12:55pm
cmm

I saw a TV host miscarried and lost her baby. Very sad. Having been there too (although from the penis-enabled side of the equation) it is a hard thing. My condolences.

What I do find odd though is that the generally lefty and pro-abortion media are reporting on this using terms like “baby”, “passed away”, etc as if this was a baby that was already born.

I find it interesting that when they talk about abortion it is never using terms like “baby” and “killed”. They talk about “it is just some cells” and insist it isn’t a baby or a person yet. Aborting an unborn baby is just getting rid of some annoying surplus cells – like getting a haircut.

This leads me to conclude that a baby is not a person (born or not). A baby is a bunch of cells plus an emotional component as to whether it is wanted or not. A wanted baby is a baby; an unwanted baby that is identical in every other way is just some cells.

In other words, a baby must be a social construct.
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May 9, 2020 1:38pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Yes, it certainly is a social construct to refer to a foetus as a baby.
  
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  May 9, 2020 2:30pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  My late wife grieved for nearly 40 years for our lost child. The child was well past due but she was known to take longer. A death pre-birth may be a dead fetus but it has plainly ceased living and still has to be born. We never even got to see the child and did not know for many years as to its burial.
  While still kicking, the child was known to us as Horace. My then wife only found out who her father was while she was dying and the child was later officially renamed to recognise him.
  An unborn child remains a spiritual being and I expect a joyous reunion in due course.
  
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  May 9, 2020 3:22pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Until my sister-in-law had to deliver her still-born full-term child, I had absolutely no idea that such things happened.
    I had naively assumed that a caesarean was performed when the grieving mum was anaesthetised.
    
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    May 9, 2020 4:30pm
  - Swifty
    
    KevOB – when you meet your son in the hereafter, what will he look like? What age will he appear to you?
    
    Genuine question.
    
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    May 9, 2020 6:40pm
Maggie Pie

I was hoping there might be someone in the group might be willing to share the secret of getting good crackling on pork belly? 😛
(I’m about to put a scored and well salted 1.2kg piece in the oven. Last time it was soooo dissapointing.)
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May 9, 2020 1:53pm
- JerJer
  
  Score it, rub in salt and oil (olive, grape whatever). Bring to room temperature if you have time. Turn oven on full. Put belly in, leave for 10 minutes, open door to let steam out. Repeat this again. Turn down heat and slow cook. If you cook in a dish that is about the size of the belly you can slow cook in cider and this will make great crackling and leave the belly very tender.
  
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  May 9, 2020 2:08pm
- MrTips
  
  I’ve found boiling the pork belly first for 30-45min in a broth of spring onion, 1 tsp coffee, half a lemon cut, soybean paste 1 spoon, and then any spices like star anise or mixed spice gets it really good.
  
  Then drain, THEN score the skin, one cup or two of salt pepper vigorously rubbed in followed by little bit of apple juice gets it real crispy and worth fighting over after bake for another hour at 180°C.
  
  Works on half kg belly.
  
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  May 9, 2020 2:14pm
- cmm
  
  This was discussed at length a few weeks back.
  
  I think the secret is to invite me over to share it. I guarantee it will turn out perfect.
  
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  May 9, 2020 2:17pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You on Tinder? 😛
    
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    May 9, 2020 2:28pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Use a hairdryer to dry out the skin. Then salt the skin after scoring. Rub it right in with your fingers, adding a small amount of olive oil. Place in roasting tray on a wire rack. Cook for 5 hours at 120 degrees. To finish grill skin side up under a hot grill. Skin will puff up onto beautiful cracking. Watch it carefully. You can easily burn it. Cover with foil and sit for 20 minutes. Carve into sliced and serve with apple sauce and your favourite chutney.
  
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  May 9, 2020 2:17pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Ignore all these chaps….
  
  Dry the skin off
  Score deeply (and quite close together) and rub salt liberally into skin and scores
  Leave for a couple of hours
  
  and THEN.. (and this is the key)
  
  Place Pork belly (skin up) into a very hot oven (230-250C) for 30min or until skin is bubbling….
  reduce heat to 160-180C until meat is cooked.
  
  I’ve had porkbellys of different widths…
  
  Those without much meat don’t require a long cooking time.
  
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  May 9, 2020 3:07pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    OK I will try your way ?
    
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    May 10, 2020 5:40am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Thankk you sooo much to all those who took the trouble to respond. Due to time constraints, i’ve had to pick a few of the best suggestions and get the thing into the oven. Will report back how it turned out for anyone interested.
  
  (And some special advice to the 2 dikshitz who saw fit to downtick my post. Please check the UBD on your can of bake-beans before opening.
  ENJOY 😀 😀 )
  
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  May 9, 2020 4:07pm
cmm

Oes, noes: travellers forced to break their bubble.

No sweeties, they chose to travel. They chose to break their bubble. Nobody forced them.

But still somewhat crazy: 2 metre spacing between passengers on a short domestic trip but use every seat on a 12 hour flight to LAX. Logic must have been stowed in with the luggage!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12330702
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May 9, 2020 2:15pm
Salacious Crumb

Another recipient of the MoH’s and Dr Bloomfield’s special brand of kindness

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12330685

Poor guy has been trying to get back to see his terminally ill wife who has taken a turn and now has hours to live. Two appeals to the MoH and once again, Bloomfield’s hollow words of “compassion” ringing like the echo in Jacinda’s head.

Here’s the crunch. All of NZ’s main hospitals have supplies of quick test kits for Covid-19. They could literally test this guy and clear him to travel in an hour. What a disgrace this government and its organs are. Let’s hope the backlash against them is as savage as their lack of decency and transparency.
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May 9, 2020 2:32pm
Don Beckett

There are a lot of pissed off Californians right now. Here is a protest at Laguna beach where they defy the cops and force the beach open.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=340&v=wN9wuQ5aUNg&feature=emb_title
5 1
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May 9, 2020 2:59pm
- [email protected]
  
  Amazing! Thanks for the link. This could happen here if we’re kept in prison in our own homes and enough people have had a guts full.
  
  Moving from prison to going to jail is simply not acceptable to me and I am in the 70+ age group.
  
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  May 9, 2020 6:11pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Political Reporter on the Herald with some unwelcome headlines for Jacinda Ardern

The gagging order from Jacinda Ardern’s office – cynical, arrogant and unnecessary
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12330745
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May 9, 2020 3:14pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  There goes his bonus…
  
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  May 9, 2020 4:38pm
- gorse
  
  The Herald is starting to publish some good articles holding this Government, and Adern to account lately. Is this a sign of growing pushback? Does the Herald sense a possible election loss coming up for Adern and are starting to back the right horse?
  
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  May 9, 2020 4:39pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Have to admit, I don’t think I’ve ever seen Ardern (well, her Office) referred to as cynical and arrogant in the mainstream Herald – or elsewhere – during the entire term of her present reign.
  Even managed to put in a reference to the Karel Sroubek affair. I wonder if there’s something cryptic in that?
  
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  May 9, 2020 6:00pm
alex Masterley

Derek is growing something that could be described as a spine.
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May 9, 2020 3:33pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I’m not a haircutter, I’m a haircutter’s son.
I’m only cutting hair until the haircutter comes.
Shoot now LOL
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May 9, 2020 4:15pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  I’m not a duck plucker, nor a duck pluckers son
  But i’ll pluck ducks till the duck plucker cums.
  Shoot now LOL!!!!
  
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  May 9, 2020 4:46pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    I’m not a pheasant plucker but a pheasant pluckers son.
    But I’ll pluck pheasanets till the pleasant phuckers come.
    
    (OOooooh – I think I phucked that up ) 😆
    
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    May 9, 2020 5:00pm
cmm

South Africa to release another 19,000 prisoners, coz, CV19. That’s on top of the 14k they released a few weeks back.

That’s approx 20% of their prison population all up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq8LJXcWROw

I hope Angry Andy isn’t watching this.
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May 9, 2020 4:16pm
dave_c_

In todays climate, nothing could be truer.

Aristotle once said: “He who has overcome his fears will truly be free.”
Fear is a powerful weapon, and it’s been used globally for the past few months. People have shown that the instant the media tells them to live a life scared in their homes, they will comply in order to “stay safe.” Whether the virus is real or not, is not the point. The elitists must keep the public in a constant state of panic in order to control them. Unafraid and compassionate people are impossible to control.
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May 9, 2020 4:25pm
seismac

Robertson is being too tricky re unemployment
He should be comparing us to Bhurundi or Somalia
Not US He is not comparing like with like
You may say “but Somalia is a poor nation with no Covid19 but 40% unemployment” So whats different about NZ
Or Bhurundi well is a very wealthy dictatorship with the worlds highest standard of living so how is NZ different? Well just that we are a dictatorship and were rich but now both at the bottom of the world and the most BROKE nation in the world -Thanks Cindy !!
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May 9, 2020 4:32pm
- alloytoo
  
  He’s being tricky because he knows damn well people on the wage subsidy can’t claim Unemployment yet………
  
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  May 9, 2020 8:21pm
Tauhei Notts

That information dump yesterday afternoon; can anybody show me the link to where all that stuff is. I have seen numerous summaries, but am actually looking for notes on a subject almost all people would consider insignificant, but to me it is quite important. Many thanks if you can help.
8 1
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May 9, 2020 4:42pm
MrTips

All here Tauhei: https://covid19.govt.nz/resources/key-documents-and-legislation/proactive-release/
7 0
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May 9, 2020 5:26pm
- greybeard
  
  Note the heading: “ProActive Release”. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  What a lot of RUBBISH !
  They only released it because of pressure from a couple of radio talkback shows on Friday.
  Thanks Magic Talk & NewstalkZB
  
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  May 9, 2020 6:28pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  MrTips,
  Thank you.
  
  1 0
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  May 9, 2020 8:01pm
Inandout

Anyone interested in the future of airlines should watch this video. He gives 3 scenarios to debate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UJR9JFdMYI&list=RDCMUCwpHKudUkP5tNgmMdexB3ow&index=1
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May 9, 2020 6:29pm
Pheobe

Worth a read
https://thebfd.co.nz/2020/05/08/in-her-quest-for-perfect-ardern-misses-proportionate/
2 0
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May 9, 2020 8:55pm

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