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May 18, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 May 2020

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mikenmildagain

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Happy International Museum Day!
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May 18, 2020 8:01am
- pdm
  
  Hell Mikey you could break a record today by being eliminated to the hidden post ranks before the second post even shows.
  
  Now that would be hard to beat.
  
  ps. Saved by MP.
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:21am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I refuse to believe there would be so many museum haters.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:54am
    - Jack5
      
      Question of the day for Milky: Does Te Papa still qualify as a museum?
      
      It still bills itself as a museum.
      
      Museums are morphing into entertainment centres everywhere. Could this be because there are so many competing demands for taxpayer support and they have to win the PR war for entertainment customers.
      
      Will the next step be entertainment-museums such as Te Papa morphing again, this time into internet only?
      
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      May 18, 2020 11:57am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Te Papa is a wonderful museum, and then envy of many people overseas.
        The main concern with Te Pap would be its declining research effort. It seems to be easier to cut the backroom science stuff. The displays are always excellent, and it has had some very high quality visiting exhibitions.
        
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        May 18, 2020 4:30pm
      - quarterpack
        
        If you are left feeling a little sad and empty by Te Papa go across the road and visit Wellington Maritime Museum which is excellent in all regards, especially the Wahine ferry section
        
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        May 18, 2020 5:42pm
    - sooty
      
      Maybe they just hate you, milky!
      
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      May 18, 2020 11:59am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’m not ruling that out, unlikely as it may seem…
        
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        May 18, 2020 4:27pm
- burt
  
  I first read that as International Muslim day and wondered if I’d need to go and murder a few gay people as part of that?
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:58am
  - Jack5
    
    How fit are you Burt? First you’ve got to carry them to the top of a building.
    
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    May 18, 2020 1:52pm
  - Scooter
    
    I also thought it was Muslim, funny how the brain works.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:37pm
theoldbloke

Another Nuseating piece from the beijing Bureau chief
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/new-zealand-edges-back-to-normal-after-routing-coronavirus-in-49-days/2020/05/15/c8f43f46-950e-11ea-87a3-22d324235636_story.html

While NZ keeps congratulating the Great Leader for saving thousands of lives.

Here in Cambodia (on an extended stay..Thanks Pandemic) , life carries on. No Lockdown, Mostly people carried on. Albeit with no tourists and cancelled garment orders closing a 100 clothing factories.
No more Virus?
No hubris about great leadership saving lives.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/coronavirus-patients-recover-cambodia-cases-weeks-200516072811468.html
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May 18, 2020 8:05am
- PhilBest
  
  The analyses of relationship between climate and COVID-19 are looking more and more vindicated as time goes on – but the establishment doesn’t want to notice this. Not where they are busy imposing political goals regardless of actual justification.
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:47am
  - PhilBest
    
    I know one fellow Kiwi who had work lined up in Pakistan in January, and he actually inquired from them whether he’d better not come because of the possible pandemic emerging, and they told him don’t worry, these respiratory disease viruses from China don’t ever do much here because of our climate!
    
    They did end up reacting and locking down recently, but the mortality has been low enough to make it questionable whether it was necessary. Familiar story?
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:24am
- MCos
  
  On a per capita basis Cambodia’s total tests are equivalent to one day’s worth in NZ.
  Nevertheless Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Myanmar, Singapore, Indonesia all through there are reporting low incidence of Covid-19 compared to Europe & America.
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:54am
  - PhilBest
    
    Yep.
    
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.23.20040501v3
    
    Climate affects global patterns of COVID-19 early outbreak dynamics
    Gentile Francesco Ficetola, Diego Rubolini
    
    Abstract
    Environmental factors, including seasonal climatic variability, can strongly impact on spatio-temporal patterns of infectious disease outbreaks, but relationships between Covid-19 dynamics and climate remain controversial. We assessed the impact of temperature and humidity on the global patterns of Covid-19 early outbreak dynamics during January-March 2020. Here we show that Covid-19 growth rates peaked in temperate regions of the Northern Hemisphere with mean temperature of ~5 C, and specific humidity of 4-6 g/m3 during the outbreak period, while they were lower both in warmer/wetter and colder/dryer regions.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:26am
  - rouppe
    
    I think if bodies were piling up in the streets we’d know about it
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:34am
  - MCos
    
    The life expectancy in Cambodia is about seventy.
    In that country few people have been tested & 122 cases of Covid-19 have been subsequently reported with no deaths.
    Judging by what’s happened elsewhere, even if many more cases were uncovered, the chances of the death toll being particularly high are low due to the low incidence of old people.
    
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    May 18, 2020 10:16am
    - theoldbloke
      
      Median age in Cambodia is 25 years old.
      Cases reported are hospitalisations.
      
      As there is no FREE health service in Cambodia, locals go to a Pharmacy if they have headaches, sore throats, temperatures.
      
      One could guess that if the population at large had a case of Covid then it would have been treated with pills. (Research is suggesting 80-90% of cases are mild to asymptomatic.)
      
      With a population of some 16 million (mostly non urban) and 19 million simcards in service, any serious outbreaks of Covid19 would have been all over social media. They are not.
      
      Deaths from Covid would be treated the same way.(Social media) But funeral levels seem to be normal . Funerals are usually 3 to 5 day events with lots of amplified Monk chanting and music. So easy to see.
      
      The last 2 months have been hot and dry (25-38c) With April traditionally the hottest month of the year.
      
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      May 18, 2020 12:15pm
- Akarak
  
  Reads like something produced by a professional CV writer. I note that the ‘team of 5 million’ has been deleted from the narrative.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:14am
- Harrywenjie
  
  South island here, the school says my kids can go back this week. But I am letting them stay home for at least a week more to see how things work out. Call me selfish, but I am not risking my own kids.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:18am
  - Alex13
    
    Damn it! – Ticked down accidentally (sorry!). Completely agree, more time is required to see where it’s all going.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:48am
  - cmm
    
    No you are not selfish and given all the fearmongering it is quite understandable that you are being cautious.
    
    However kids are at extremely low risk from CV19 – way lower than anyone else. Their risk from CV19 is way, way, lower than the risk of an accident going to/from school.
    
    If nothing else, a week longer away from school will be a week less risk from walking to/from school and a week less damage inflicted on your kids by teachers.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:58am
    - Harrywenjie
      
      I heard that, but kids can be carriers and make you sick. If my wife gets sick, who is going to take care of the kids. And If I am sick, I won’t be able to put meals on the table. Either way, worse than staying home.
      
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      May 18, 2020 11:09am
      - cmm
        
        You’ve twisted it a bit: worrying about the kids to worrying about the adults.
        
        Still, with all the manufactured fear what is “rational” is not what is always the best thing. No point in doing what is “rational” if it gives you a whole week or two of worry.
        
        At my house we all know what is rational (three engineers and a nurse), but we’re still doing what “feels” right. It is often just easier to do that and sleep better.
        
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        May 18, 2020 12:53pm
- Jack5
  
  The Washington Post’s Beijing bureau chief’s cheer leader for Jacindarella is one of the New Zealand feminista journalists who now work abroad for liberal media.
  
  Cambodia and Vietnam are some of the East Asian countries they celebrate for Covid-19 control, but they usually ignore the stand-out country against the disease, Taiwan, which has kept business and schooling going while controlling the disease.
  
  Vietnam was strong on border control and putting foreign arrivals into quarantine (first link that follows).
  
  It extended school holidays suspending classes for millions of students, locked down at least one small regional town, and set out protocols for treating Wuhan flu patients ( – second link below). Being a Communist country, folk wouldn’t want to test the lockdown rules.
  
  https://e.vnexpress.net/news/news/covid-19-who-gets-quarantined-in-vietnam-4063601.html
  
  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/02/infected-patients-vietnam-cured-coronavirus-miracle-200228035007608.html
  
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  May 18, 2020 10:12am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Nor did we.
    
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    May 18, 2020 6:28pm
Scott

An excellent article from Don brash about the effort to have more Maori doctors. Essentially Maori people are getting into medical school and are experiencing policies designed to favour Maori doctors. It seems that these Maori doctors get on well with Maori people and can say Maori words more correctly than white people can.

Of course if you or I were visiting a doctor we would want to be assured that they know their medical staff and can treat our condition properly. On the other hand if the doctor is Maori then these policies would make me worry that they were in fact less qualified and less knowledgeable than doctors of other races? I don’t know about you, but I value medical knowledge and expertise a little bit more highly than the ability to speak Maori words properly? What do others think?

“Have the medical schools gone too far by favouring Maori and Polynesian applicants with average grades over others with exceptional grades?

An unexpected Stuff feature titled “Medical school: Who gets in and why” (May 16, 2020) profiles (with changed names) one who gained entry and one who didn’t.

For instance, Harry, an 18-year-old of European descent brought up by professional parents who always wanted to be a doctor, was not accepted into Otago Medical School.

This was despite completing the first-year health science course at the University of Otago with an A+ average grade and managing a top score in the required University Clinical Aptitude Test.

Yet Wiremu, a product of a kohanga reo pre-school and a low decile Maori-language primary school who said he worked “his guts out” in the highly competitive intermediate year at Auckland University, was one of those students who benefited from policies designed to train more Maori medical professionals.

He said that as a junior doctor, his experience in relating to gang families meant he was often able to get through to certain Maori patients just by saying his name.

“They suddenly realised there was a Maori person on the other side. You just have to see their face when I say ‘Kia Ora I’m Wiremu’ — some of them go, ‘True Bro I thought you were Pakeha’. In certain circumstances we will have a chat in Maori and obviously that’s useful. Then we have a brief introduction period, you get to know the other person. Pronouncing someone’s name correctly is massive.”

Hobson’s Pledge promotes a “colour-blind” model of public policy in which no racial or ethnic group is favoured over another.”
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May 18, 2020 8:06am
- kowtow
  
  It’s amazing how acceptable and fashionable outright ,raw racism is , but only when it is perpetrated by non whites.
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:38am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    It is racism and race-based discrimination in a literal sense. But to the progressive Leftist, the functional definition of ‘racism’ is simply and exclusively white people being mean to (or even pointing out the behaviour of) non-white “minorities” (who are, of course, easily a global majority, but that is another issue). Therefore, it doesn’t apply at all to non-white people. That’s why there is a phenomenon called “reverse racism” – it would be redundant if ‘racism’ actually meant what it says in the dictionary.
    
    We need to be clear that “stamping out racism” or “fighting white nationalism” or “ending homophobia” or “advancing women’s equality” etc are all descriptive terms for ending straight white male influence and replacing us with non-whites, homosexuals and women. It’s about revenge, reparations and unmerited power, not equality.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:01am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      There is still a certain level of meritocracy.
      
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      May 18, 2020 6:59pm
  - Phronesis
    
    The ultimate problem is that they fail to see that there is an important principle at stake. Sure there might be some short term benefit to having more Maori doctors but the cost is to accept the idea that sometimes racism is a good thing. Racism is never a good thing. Once you accept that racism is good then you differ only in degree and not in kind from every other genocidal nutcase.
    
    A whore is a whore whether they charge $1 or $100000, and racists are racists regardless of their intentions.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:34am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Even worse if you are an American (of Chinese / Japanese / Korean ethnicity). Havard sets the bar significantly higher for you than for whitey.
  
  Much like they did with the Jews a couple of generations ago.
  
  Equality of outcome über alles. (Damn those German philosophers.)
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:01am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The average IQ level difference between the populations puts Maori 1 Std deviation behind most. That will limit their opportunity for elite education. Maybe a bit of secondrateism is is helpful in promoting a diversity of general doctors. The Specialists will naturally sort out their own capable ones.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:05am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  “Hobson’s Pledge promotes a “colour-blind” model of public policy in which no racial or ethnic group is favoured over another.”
  
  And that’s a big concern for those who want to undermine white people and the historically very successful European paradigm. They don’t want equality, they want to be in charge.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:14am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I like Hobsons Pledge but world wide people are fussy about their personal doctors.
    If we expected every doctor to be trained to an identical standard we could go short quickly. I have seen doctors overseas locally trained and providing well what is basically required for most patients. GP’s can have their experts too for referrals in more difficult cases. If it is patient relations at stake in select groups I have no problem with some difference in training. I expect a reasonable degree of monitoring of all practitioners to occur.
    
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    May 18, 2020 4:27pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “He said that as a junior doctor, his experience in relating to gang families meant he was often able to get through to certain Maori patients just by saying his name.”
  _________________________
  
  Good grief. Now what could be the unintended consequences? That’s right. Everyone else avoids Maori doctors. I have no desire to be treated by a doctor who “relates to gang families”. Because doctors who do this are legitimising criminal gangs.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:15am
- Hapuku
  
  Affirmative action…that’s a tough one. The hardest to reach group for healthcare is Maori and Pacifica so you can understand wanting to have a medical workforce that can communicate well with their target groups.
  As long as they are turning out competent doctors who cares if they got 95% or 85% in their intermediate year.
  
  It’s tough for Pakeha students but isn’t it all about having a more effective workforce?
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:17am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Maybe they are the hardest to reach because they don’t like you.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:44am
    - Hapuku
      
      Haha…quite possibly
      
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      May 18, 2020 4:06pm
- rouppe
  
  Those policies allocate 60% of the intake to places allocated to ethnic groups
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:37am
  - peterwn
    
    The Stuff article indicates there is ‘catch up’ here. Ethnic minorities are currently disproportionately favoured to help bring the ‘mix’ of the current cohort of doctors in practice to nearer the mix of ethnic and cultural groups in society.
    The canny Scots who founded Otago University and its medical school would have wanted it to produce doctors who could best serve the community. Things like gender, etc would have got in the way of that. The Medical School is now applying that founding principle – to produce doctors to serve the community – not a bunch of high intellect prima donnas.
    
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    May 18, 2020 10:17am
- Michael NZ
  
  Scott Link Please!
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:40am
- Nightsky-one
  
  I wonder how ” friendly “Dr Wiremu would be to some white trailer trash family
  Who came in needing urgent medical help? The same people who don’t get billions of tax payer money
  Thrown at them every time they whine that “Life at fair”
  Would he have a nice friendly chat with them to make them feel safe and valued ?
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:46am
- cmm
  
  From what a Maori language tutor told me, there isn’t even a correct way to pronounce Maori words.
  
  He was teaching for years in North Island, then came to Christchurch to teach here.
  
  He said something like: “It’s like a whole different language bro. Luckily I can speak English or I’d be fucked.”
  
  Yeah, I know he was over stating it, but still…
  
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  May 18, 2020 10:03am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    The “correct pronounciation” will be what some panel of experts in Wellington deems it to be.
    Iwi and regional dialects be damned.
    
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    May 18, 2020 10:42am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    Cmm, I’ve been saying for years that standard Maori is the NgaPuhi accent imposed on all the other tribes.
    I remember reading of a recording by a Waikato Maori recorded in the early 1900’s speaking. Apparently linguists picked up as many as 40 different wha-wa sounds in his general conversation. Every time I hear the overpaid teleprompter readers on TV saying things like Toe-pore I cringe. They can’t pronounce English words correctly.
    
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    May 18, 2020 11:20am
    - [moderated]
      
      That’s what cracks me up about “putting the H back in Wanganui”. The local dialect underpronounces the h to be barely audible, so not putting the h in makes it more similar to the actual pronunciation. Putting the H in makes it a hard F, not a soft wa-ha.
      
      This will all debated in the early 1900s with the consensus being to stick to the missing H. If it needed improving, then an apostrophe could’ve been inserted so that people couldn’t complain there’s no such word as wanganui (I saw that argument written by children to MPs).
      
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      May 18, 2020 12:54pm
    - cmm
      
      Heck, even written languages like ENglish vary remarkably form one area of England to another.
      
      But it is far worse for non-written languages (eg.Maori, African languages etc). Writing something down gives the language far more stability.
      
      Where does a dialect end and a new language start? I don’t think there is a real demarcation.
      
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      May 18, 2020 12:57pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I think you will find there has been tension between folks using Ngati Porou (East Coast -NI) pronunciation and other versions that swept through our National Agencies (Schools/Nat Radio) in the 1980s.
      
      http://www.journal.mai.ac.nz/sites/default/files/MAIJrnl_6_2_Keegan_02_Final.pdf
      
      As one raised on the west-coast of the NI during 1950s-70s, I never heard Fonganui , fare, kofai, Fongaehoue…all were pronounced with a hard W (pakeha) or with an aspirated W -(Maori).
      
      It’s taking me ages to remember to pronounce (wh) words with f -sound over here in Gisborne….
      My neighbour’s children weren’t recognising their names (Whakaari. and Wharekauri) when I referred to them with a west-coast accent.
      
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      May 18, 2020 1:24pm
    - Komata
      
      BrianM@1120
      
      Actually no, not so.
      
      ‘New Zealand Standard Maori’ is based on the dialect of a tiny iwi in the Bay of Plenty, and how it became what it is, is a somewhat hilarious tale.
      
      The very short version: Apparently, back in the late 70’s when the subject of ‘Standard’ Maori came up in conversation within the then Ministry of Maori Affairs, there was a lot of talk and very little action, with each of the ‘Main’ tribes ( Arawa, Tainui, Ngati-Porou et al ), eyeing the other so that none gained any unfair advantage. This was the situation for several years, with no progress whatsoever. A stalemate!
      
      A certain young woman ( who shall remain nameless), noticed this, and suggested to both Maori and Island, and the Min of Ed., ( who would have to teach whatever eventuated) that she could resolve the stalemate, so long as she was given the time and funds to do so. A proposal was presented in support of her statement, and on the basis of it’s contents, permission was given. It took approximately 18 months and at the end what was proposed was suficiently-robust and ‘teachable’ to warrant the adoption of what was proposed. So it proved and the result was the creation of what we now know as ‘Standard’ Maori. As it was ‘fit for task’, both Ministries enthusiastically embraced the material and it was accepted as the NZ Standard.
      
      It was at this point that the comedy started. Drawing on what she knew ( Her own dialect), the young woman responsible for the now-approved ‘Standard language’ had based the ‘new’ language on her own dialect and the resultant ‘New ‘standardised Maori drew some 90% of its words from said dialect.
      
      All this was, of course, totally out in the open, yet such were the intertribal enmeties, that what was occuring was almost-studiously ignored by the main tribes. That the young lady was of a very minor ( and insignificant) iwi only made the situation easier, as NO iwi was ‘bright enough’t o do anything much anyway.
      
      Came the day when the new language was unveiled to much fanfare, and the ‘Main’ tribes suddenly started asking themselves what was known about this new arrival and which of them ( the Main tribes) had double-crossed the others. None had, yet here was the new entity, already operating, Government approved and supported, and being touted as a great advance for Maori.
      
      Much investigation followed until the facts were revealed; that, by using her initiative, a member of a minor iwi had managed to ‘put one across’ all the ‘big boys’ and had come out on top!
      
      The fury can be imagined ‘How dare they’, and representations were made at very senior levels, but to no avail! The programme was in place; it was wirking very well, things weren’t going to change, get used to it!
      
      This did NOT go down very well, and much muttering resulted! The programme remained, and continues to be used.
      
      The iwi members thought it hilarious; the ‘Big Boys’ caught out! Apparently they still do…
      
      FWIW ( And if anyone is interested), this tale was related to me many years ago with some relish (and considerable mirth) by a (now deceased) senior Kaumatua of the iwi concerned, a relative of the lady concerned. I have no reason to doubt its accuracy or authenticity.
      
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      May 18, 2020 7:34pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  I read the Stuff article (with some surprise that they published it) and was sickened by the many references to “affirmative action”.
  
  As we well know, affirmative action is simply racism, racial discrimination and the weakening of standards to advantage people that shouldn’t need it, to the detriment of eminently qualified and otherwise outstanding applicants, who happen to have been born in the wrong part of the country, to parents of the wrong skin colour.
  
  If I was Wiremu and had worked my guts out, and qualified on merit rather than through racism, I’d be very angry that people would think I was given a leg-up through my race and might be less intelligent or qualified than my white-skinned peers. Although apparently Wiremu has such a small percentage of of Maori blood that the only way other part-maori realise his lineage is when he tells them his name.
  
  And if I was someone like Harry that got shut out because I couldn’t claim a few drops of maori blood, when I was better qualified than others that got in on race-based grounds, I’d be going to see my lawyer.
  
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  May 18, 2020 10:05am
  - doggone7
    
    An interesting thing is, given a mate’s recent experience, is that Harry and his family can go to hospital and have problems understanding various doctors, or be understood by them. Not to do with Maori but because those medical people have immigrated from various parts of the world.
    
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    May 18, 2020 1:15pm
- Justitia
  
  The irony here is that Otago’s racist entry policy is likely condemning Maori and Pasifika communities to second class medical treatment.
  
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  May 18, 2020 10:13am
  - Ian Boag
    
    I call bullshit. Given that all doctors are good (by definition) …. and there has been no work I know of that relates “how good a doctor is” to “year 1 exam marks” …..
    
    It’s all a bit hard.
    
    I have some sympathy for the people who make the decisions because whatever they do is going to piss someone off.
    
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    May 18, 2020 4:48pm
- Jack5
  
  Brown preferences in medicine are part of the Maori move to build political power in the Western university system in New Zealand.
  
  New Zealand has set up Maori tertiary institutions, where Maori culture can be studied, and concepts such as “Maori science”. But in a case of what’s mine is mine and what’s yours if half-mine, Maori are building power in the general tertiary system.
  
  Maori have been given power over research projects at the University of Otago, and at the University of Canterbury, home to a fine engineering school and traditional faculties such as law and music, there have been added courses to Ph.D. level on “Maori and Indigenous Studies”, and a Ngai Tahu tribal research centre.
  
  This blurb for the Maori course at Canterbury, “Science, Maori and Indigenous Knowledge,” typifies how traditional subject areas are being encroached:
  
  “This is an integrated multi-disciplinary course between Aotahi: School of Maori and Indigenous Studies and the College of Science. This course provides a basic understanding of Maori and indigenous peoples’ knowledge in such fields as astronomy, physics, conservation biology, aquaculture, resource management and health sciences. The course provides unique perspectives in indigenous knowledge, western science and their overlap. The course will provide an essential background in cultural awareness and its relationship with today’s New Zealand scientific community.”
  
  Next: Maori engineering?
  
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  May 18, 2020 10:26am
- Sacha
  
  Many years ago I worked in the renal Unit at Wellington Hospital. At that time there were just 3 units in NZ and people were referred from far and wide for treatment.
  One of these was a man in his 30’s who came from up Gisborne way and because of his remoteness from the unit, he was put on the peritoneal dialysis programme which meant he could do the treatment himself, at home, and the local hospital was given support in case of any acute difficulties.
  The problem was, that he would get home, with truckloads of medical supplies, and do well for a few weeks and then start messing around with his treatments. Then he’d start feeling a bit crook and THEN he’d go to the local medicine man (because European medicine was making him sick) and start taking local cures and it would very quickly go downhill from there and he would be brought back to base for emergency treatment.
  He finally died of his renal failure during one of his ‘relapses’.
  
  Wiremu ‘s was a valid comment. How many European medicos would want to spend additional years learning Maori culture in order treat a minority population? Better to have members of that culture have a basic medical degree, and acceptance from the community and the ability to refer if necessary – but that’s my opinion.
  
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  May 18, 2020 11:14am
- Unity
  
  I would resist being treated by a ‘Maori’ Doctor because I would wonder if the bar had been lowered for him to qualify. Language would not come into it.
  
  All this racist nonsense is going to destroy our country if it isn’t halted. We should all be treated the same – as New Zealanders.
  
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  May 18, 2020 4:01pm
Luke Piewalker

If I was voted in at the next election boy would there be some payback. Hard and early

I would gut every Labour law passed in the last three years.

Every Labour consultant would be instantly cut off.

Winston First corruption would be prosecuted

Oh and the media. Yes you would be cut loose

Feel free to add to this list …
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May 18, 2020 8:08am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The thing is that there is a growing list of reforms that are desperately needed. That was the case before 2017 but it has accelerated. Some of the required changes can be made quickly by repealing laws, eg “fees free” tertairy education. Others would be harder but you could do a lot in 12 months.
  
  I have no doubt that if there is not the right result come September, by 2023 New Zealand will be in a worse position than was the case when Roger Douglas started his repair work in 1984. My knowledge of New Zealand pre WW2 is sketchy, but I am sure this election will be the highest stakes one in 70 years.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:19am
- MCos
  
  Here a list of legislation passed by the current parliament for your information.
  
  By the time you repeal all the stuff Labour passed you’ll be mighty tired, working on your own.
  National, for all their huffing and puffing, rarely repeals Labour legislation.
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/52HOOOCProgressLegislation1/fb4850adfea71b88523161de11522dd1d578aa5a
  
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  May 18, 2020 10:36am
artemisia

Until last week, I reckoned that September 2020 was an election National / Act might not be too worried about losing. Leaving the personal, business and economic messes to the creators.

The Budget has changed my mind. It is pretty much a blank cheque for any new government, and opportunities to fast advance productive initiatives and make sensible savings will be welcomed by the few net taxpayers left in New Zealand.

Especially if those savings specifically skewer unproductive or unnecessary race based spending designed to influence September 19th voters.
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May 18, 2020 8:08am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The obstacle for National now is the $20 BILLION slush fund Robertson has left himself for election sweeteners dressed up as COVID relief. Look at the $250m-odd he dished out to sport yesterday; that’s a mere 1.25% of his election fund!
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:58am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The $50M buyout of the MSM is another entrapment. Can the Opposition have $50m too?
    
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    May 18, 2020 4:35pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “I reckoned that September 2020 was an election National / Act might not be too worried about losing.”
  
  No, there is way too much at stake. By 2023 it will take a generation to fix. Under MMP that will be impossible. We will go down the Argentinian Road.
  
  Since forever Argentina has been a mess. And occasionally the people elect a Government with sound policies to fix the mess. The reforms start but cause pain. The voters remove the reformists and re-elect the crazy nationalists (think NZ First on steroids). That has been the see saw since 1983.
  
  Given our MMP system, New Zealand really could go down the Argentinian Road.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:24am
  - Sacha
    
    The reason that National ‘rarely repeals Labour legislation’ is, I think, because New Zealand society has a very deep sense of the concept of ‘equality for all’.
    We DO believe that that everyone should have warm, dry homes, and food on the table, and complete cradle to grave medical care.
    Fair enough, but –
    The disagreement is in HOW we achieve this. Most of the population is derived from cultures that also believe that warm, dry homes and plenty of food – but who also believe that each adult person is responsible for providing for their own (and their dependents’ needs).
    But there are others who believe that ” from everyone to whom much has been given (by their own efforts), much will be required” – and this generosity with Other People’s resources has now extended to their also being responsible for supplying the warm, dry houses and plentiful food of people less willing to look after themselves.
    A National government would get howled out of office if it tried to make all the reforms that would fix the problems. But I am not saying that they shouldn’t have a go –
    
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    May 18, 2020 11:41am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “A National government would get howled out of office if it tried to make all the reforms that would fix the problems.”
      
      Well if the ever have a majority with ACT, they should go flat out with reform for three years. If they lose the next election so be it. Maybe some of the reforms will stick. But they would need to go flat out and hit the vested interests across a wide front. As we saw with the Key Government, the Left will scream blue murder and try to sabotage even mild reform. So go for broke. The screams will be no worse.
      
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      May 18, 2020 12:57pm
  - Ruahine
    
    We are going to go down the Argentinian Road. MMP will allow it to happen against the wishes of the majority. Perhaps we will become better dancers.
    
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    May 18, 2020 1:26pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      MMP ensures that whatever party/group in government has majority. FPP does not.
      
      The anti-MMP KB people seem to be taken with the notion that ACT might get enough (list) seats to form a coalition with National if National does not get a majority. Could happen I suppose.
      
      Would be a “Coalition of Winners” I guess – referred to as the COW 🙂
      
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      May 18, 2020 4:57pm
oldpark

“Into the Abyss”.That is the way NZs who have had their Human and Civil Liberties to practice their Religion or the Choice not to . Seems according to the woman known as Ardern feeding off the Coronavirus fiasco was heard on the Radio today saying it was much too risky for Churches to be once more operating . Yet under her auspicies it is alright to operate a brothel .What is going on .
Seems Religious Discrimination is to the fore in Godszone . A Classic Communist trick to control the masses is . Remove the belief in the God from Government and schools . Yes seems Ardern has got the memo .
For the sakeof all NZs here and in the near future for Ardern . ” Some cause Happiness wherever they go”Others when ever they go” . Just Saying .
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May 18, 2020 8:16am
- Philview
  
  She keeps saying “Team of 5 Million” which really seems like a sinister slogan. It strips us of our individualism and identity. It smacks of common purpose ideology, that we all as one serve our Government’s directives.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:03am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Some of us are not part of that communist team
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:34am
    - Sacha
      
      It’s not a team – it’s ‘conscripts’.
      
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      May 18, 2020 11:42am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Prisoners, a bit Hotel California if you ask me.
        
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        May 18, 2020 9:26pm
Saks

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121540360/covid19-new-zealand-edges-back-to-normal-after-quashing-coronavirus-in-49-days

Stuff leading with a puff piece today from the Washington post. Talking about ardens perfect leadership through the pandemic and her governments radical transparency. (I’m guessing that the meaning of radical is now “lack of”)

I forced myself to read till the end and suddenly it all made sense – it was written by someone who wrote a book about the “brilliant comrade Kim Jong Un” so our response was perfect – if we are trying to be North Korea.

Expect to see your freedoms continue to be taken away. Not just from government policy but now other organisations are too scared to go back to normal claiming health and safety factors.

I have decided the majority of kiwis are simply too thick to understand what is going on here.

But but they say… look Jethro had to dye Cindys hair. They did it tough during lock down too.

Yea right…
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May 18, 2020 8:17am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Even the Washington Post is having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to find CCP approved puff piecces about Ardern. Remarkable!
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:52am
- Sacha
  
  Oh NO!!!!! Don’t tell me that that shiny black mane is colour-enhanced!
  My disillusion is complete.
  
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  May 18, 2020 11:46am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Not Youth adjacent anymore? No doubt there have been compensations.
    
    I was going grey in my 20’s but just saying.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:34pm
Lipo

Question – If every country is in debt, who is New Zealand borrowing all our money from?
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May 18, 2020 8:17am
- PhilBest
  
  The money is being created by Central banks. They are becoming the principal holders of government debt Bonds. The idea is that when Zimbabwe-style inflation looks like a risk, they sell off the Bonds to mop up the excess liquidity.
  
  Some of us have been saying “good luck with that” all along.
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:50am
  - Tony Norriss
    
    Or they forgive the debt, effectively creating money out of thin air.
    
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    May 18, 2020 8:58am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Who is going to buy those bonds?
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:08am
    - PhilBest
      
      Aha! People who automatically ask that question demonstrate that they are pretty sharp in their faculties….they weren’t born yesterday
      
      Surprising how many “experts” haven’t really anticipated this being a question that needs to be asked
      
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      May 18, 2020 9:29am
    - Nickc2
      
      If NZ has nothing to buy these bonds back, they are worthless. However, beware, there is a plan afoot to substitute money in your bank account for Government Bonds. I kid you not and you will have no say in the matter. I forget what this is called, but it’s quite legal.
      
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      May 18, 2020 11:11am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Who is going to forgive our debt and why would they?
      
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      May 18, 2020 9:35pm
- Stephen Russell
  
  Me. And you. And other individuals with money in the bank or in bonds or pension funds. Not other Governments for the most part – though many have both financial assets and liabilities so do lend to others (while simultaneously borrowing elsewhere).
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:59am
  - chukar
    
    Lenin’s recipe to destroy capitalism was to debauch (debase) currency’s.
    
    Seem familiar?
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:25am
    - Ian Boag
      
      A mere 100 years ago …..
      
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      May 18, 2020 4:58pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Kiwisaver?
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:38pm
- Harrywenjie
  
  From sheep and cows. What do you expect?
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:21am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  You, your children, and grand children
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:36am
- JackRabbit
  
  Alternate Question – If every country in the world is in debt, who are all the countries borrowing money from?
  
  And if the answer is Central Banks, how did “Central Banks” end up with 98% of the Monopoly Money?
  
  Is it just printed?
  
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  May 18, 2020 11:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s being printed in Wellington.The suckers are yet to be born who will have to pay it back.
  
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  May 18, 2020 4:38pm
Maggie Pie

I thought my partner raised an interesting question. “Whose side would we be on if conflict broke out between America and China?”
He watched a movie last night called “The coming War with China”……you can watch it here for yourselves:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAfeYMONj9E

As he pointed out, the most worrying aspect is that the CCP already have the equivalent of about 150 battalions stationed in New Zealand 🙁
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May 18, 2020 8:21am
- cmm
  
  There’s been a bloodless war going on for a long time now.
  
  The Chinese own half of USA so they probably see little point in bombing it to rubble.
  
  Far easier to play the debt game because the Americans (and everyone else) are willing to inflict it on themselves.
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:25am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Here we go again.
    The Americans were clutching at their pearls 30 years ago when the Japanese jugernaut seems unstoppable.
    Well that didn’t last, and Japan is still mired in a recession that began 28 years ago.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:03am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “Well that didn’t last, and Japan is still mired in a recession that began 28 years ago.”
      
      The funny thing is when you visit Japan it does not feel like that.
      
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      May 18, 2020 9:25am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        Have you seen the percentage of Japanese government debt in relation to GDP? It must be around 220% and climbing! (Mind you, they owe it to themselves.)
        
        Also, Japan is a nation of two faces.
        There are the giant urban centers of the Kanto (Tokyo) and Kansai (Osaka) that suck in youth and capital from the rest of Japan, and then there are the dying regional towns and villages. This process has been ongoing since the 1950s.
        
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        May 18, 2020 11:03am
    - cmm
      
      There is a difference though. The Japanese jugernaut was, at least partially, fuelled by the Marshall Plan as part of the Cold War effort to keep them US aligned.
      
      That gave Japan some artificial stimulation (as also happened in S Korea, W Germany etc).
      
      When that was withdrawn Japan got hit hard.
      
      China, on the other hand, is self built.
      
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      May 18, 2020 9:27am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        “China, on the other hand, is self built.”
        
        What would China have done without the US and the West/Japan to supply capital, expertise and to provide a buyer for “Made in China”?
        
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        May 18, 2020 11:05am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Come on cmm, US aid to rebuild Japan stopped many years before the Japanese economy stalled.
        
        As to why it stalled so comprehensively is not clear, quite possibly cultural reasons and the ossification of Japanese culture ?
        
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        May 18, 2020 11:34am
      - Jack5
        
        Until the early 1960s, China also received help from the Soviet Union, and not just in nuclear technology but in heavy industry, with entire plants being transferred to China.
        
        The huge territory where the indigenous Uighurs are now being given a rough time by the Communists was seized by China at the instigation of Stalin, and with Soviet help.
        
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        May 18, 2020 2:03pm
    - Cobolt24
      
      You could look at it from a numbers point of view but in reality, they’ve been doing quite well.
      This is a good article I was reading a while back:
      https://mises.org/library/myth-japans-lost-decades
      
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      May 18, 2020 11:46am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  He is right on the money, they have infiltrated the world both physically and financially, watch as this all unfolds they will be in picking over the entrails of our ruined financial systems like a rat up a drainpipe.
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:26am
  - Simon
    
    Ardern has a panic attack and crushed NZs economy not the CCP
    
    If Trump wins in November there will not be war. At least for 4 years.
    
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    May 18, 2020 8:32am
    - emmess
      
      I would say, you could attribute the blame 50/50 between the government and the CCP in NZ.
      Generously, any excess damage over Australia can be blamed directly at Jacinda.
      
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      May 18, 2020 9:06am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      ‘When Trump wins’
      Fixed it for you
      
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      May 18, 2020 9:38am
  - PhilBest
    
    I commented yesterday how we should all be taking more notice of the fact that they rapidly re-opened their economy after trying lockdown for a couple of weeks. Obviously they concluded that the cost was too much higher compared to just rolling with the disease.
    
    Now we have the irony that the CCP is ruthlessly suppressing COVID-19 alarmism within its own borders and suppressing facts about incidence and death; while in the West, governments and Big Tech and transnational bodies are working the exact opposite way, suppressing anything that questions COVID-19 alarmism and lockdowns.
    
    The Chicoms probably didn’t plan this, but they are excellent students of Sun-Tzu and are certainly making strategic use of this crisis as it unfolds. Including taking buying up western assets to a new level, at bargain-basement prices.
    
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    May 18, 2020 8:37am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Chinas own financial world is the one in ruin.
    They can’t buy anything- in fact their BRI strategy is falling apart because they don’t have any money.
    
    This idea of an actual physical war between the US and China is nonsense.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:04am
- PhilBest
  
  I have long appreciated Chinese immigrants for their worth and thrift ethic, low crime, social conservatism, etc. But I have been disturbed at the current time by Chinese-NZ contacts of mine whose sympathies are with the CCP over COVID-19 and even HK and the democracy debate.
  
  I don’t know how many Chinese NZ-ers watch Chinese State TV daily as their main source of information, but certainly some are doing so.
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:31am
  - Michael NZ
    
    Phil
    Most older ones read the Chinese language papers here.
    Like Confucious Institutes at our UNI’s, they are organs for CCP Intelligence.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:48am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Phil,
    
    Given the Obama created, joint USA – China virus research program, running in tandem, in Wuhan and the USA, it creates doubt that China are the main culprit in this Covid-19 ScamDemic.
    
    And given that Five Eyes had prior knowledge, what do you make of that?
    
    When Grant Robertson started stockpiling money late last year “for a rainy day”, he set off red flags in many quarters. Which were not entirely withdrawn by throwing a few bits of loose change at education ($400 million over two years). And not withdrawn when Grant promised to spend big on roading projects, which in fact was only restarting projects that National had started but Labour had put the brakes on.
    
    On the contrary, when the promised roading projects were not scheduled to start until 2021 after the election, this threw up even more red flags.
    
    So, borrowing and stockpiling money “for a rainy day”, offset that with projects, but schedule the pitiful spending to happen way into the future.
    
    Was Grant Robertson’s umbrella event Covid-19?
    
    Now that we know Five Eyes had prior knowledge, it begs the questions: Who knew, and when did they know?
    
    That is what National and ACT need to focus on.
    As well as a robust plan to put NZ back on an even keel.
    
    You can’t tiptoe around the office bully and expect the bully to be transparent all on their own.
    
    “Finance Minister Grant Robertson said the Government has a “once in a generation” fiscal opportunity.” – 30th November 2019
    
    To borrow money for projects that will NOT even start until at least 2021, when the CoL may not even be in power.
    
    “It is a once in a generation Budget. It is bold because the task we face is monumental,” he says. – 14th May 2020.
    
    A $50 billion rescue fund sits at the centre of 2020’s “once in a generation Budget” as the country braces for the economic carnage promised by Covid-19.
    
    11 Dec 2019 :
    “Grant Robertson announces extra $6.8 billion to be allocated towards transport infrastructure; New capital spending won’t get out the door until 2021”
    
    “Borrow $12 Billion now, to spend over the next 5 years, starting after the next election.” WTF ?
    
    Who borrows money NOW, to spend years in the FUTURE, when you are not even guaranteed to be in government? Unless you intend to spend it before the election!
    
    Borrow now, start spending in 2 years AFTER THE ELECTION???
    Stockpiling cash!!!
    
    “…Robertson said the Government would be announcing the specific projects in early to mid-2020… ….$8 billion is for specific “shovel ready” projects.”
    
    November 30th, 2019, Grant Robertson:
    “One of the achievements I am most proud of is the Wellbeing Budget.”
    
    December 11th, 2019, Grant Roberston:
    “We are continuing to adopt a fiscally responsible approach,”
    
    December 11th, 2019, WellBeing Budget results:
    At the May (2019) budget, growth was predicted to be 3% this financial year, but that’s been revised down to 2.2%. It also forecast a $1.3 billion surplus, which has been downgraded to a $900 million deficit.”
    
    https://www.interest.co.nz/news/102959/grant-robertson-announces-extra-68-billion-be-allocated-towards-transport-infrastructure
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12289781
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12292663
    
    https://www.labour.org.nz/conf2019-grant-robertson-speech
    
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/the-bulletin/02-12-2019/the-bulletin-time-right-to-borrow-and-spend-says-robertson/
    
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/business/11-12-2019/new-zealand-goes-into-the-red-with-12b-to-be-borrowed-for-infrastructure/
    
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    May 18, 2020 12:28pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      A “Once in a generation” ‘fiscal opportunity’ to borrow money NOW for projects that won’t start in 2021 until AFTER an election you may not win?
      
      And then you suddenly need it for a “Once in a generation” budget caused by a false Pandemic?
      
      WTF?
      
      What are the odds?
      
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      May 18, 2020 12:38pm
- peterwn
  
  This is similar to a hypothetical question circulating some decades ago when Russia was accused of ‘revisionism’ and China was having its ‘Great Leap Forward’, five year plans and back yard iron smelting. “What should New Zealand do if invaded by China?” The ‘correct’ answer among the young idealistic set was to let them take over NZ without a fuss and life would carry on as usual.
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:35am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, I can just imagine if that happens, NZ will be full of NZer operated $2.00 shops, fruit and vegetable shops and restaurants (a role switch). Get used to chop sticks people.
    
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    May 18, 2020 11:41am
- Brian Marshall
  
  People don’t realise how much brain washing goes on in mainland China. The students that come here to continue their study are a product of a National socialist indoctrination schooling. China isn’t communist, they’re national socialist. The people in Hong Kong and Taiwan know what’s what and that’s why the protests in Hong Kong are supported by the regular Hong Kong people.
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:35am
  - cmm
    
    Yup, there really is no difference between communism and Nazis except whether they are globalist or nationalist.
    
    China is nationalist in their thinking and are colonialist and are looking for some Lebensraum.
    
    China still is very much in their great leap forward and are still running 5 year plans. It is now their “innovation phase” 2016-2020.
    
    If nothing else, the whole CV19 thing has put them on the map.
    
    2021-2025 is supposed to be the time when they really become free standing as manufacturers – no longer sweatshops but instead purveyours of premium brands.
    
    To many that seems laughable, but in the late 1950s, Japanese was synonymous with crap toys that break on Boxing Day. A few years later: Sony, Toyota etc; Japan started to mean quality.
    
    Then in the 1990s we saw the rise of Korean brands: Samsung etc.
    
    Are the 2020’s going to see the rise of Chinese brands?
    
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    May 18, 2020 2:06pm
- Harrywenjie
  
  For the 150 battalions you are talking about. If you mean people like me holding a Chinese passport with NZ residency, who have been living here for 20 years, raised a family and just want peace. I can tell you that, I am more scared from being put into concentration camps.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:29am
  - Michael NZ
    
    Harry
    you should be, because the worm just might turn…..
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:49am
    - Harrywenjie
      
      If it comes to that, I will just pack up and leave. Long before those concentration camps are built. It takes ages to build anything here anyways.
      
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      May 18, 2020 12:57pm
      - Jack5
        
        Harry, we can all promise you there won’t be concentration camps in NZ on the lines of those in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region.
        
        But what’s your feeling about Hong Kong? Do you think Beijing should give the young people of Hong Kong more democracy?
        
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        May 18, 2020 1:50pm
      - Harrywenjie
        
        @Jack5 It won’t allow me to reply under your comment, so I’ll say it here.
        You can’t promise anything. If Trump wants to build concentration camps here, NZ will comply. Like it wants to ban huawei, and the other 4 eyes just have no say. NZ, Aus, Cananda are all on a leash to say at least. UK is probably the only one matters a little bit.
        As for Hongkong youth, Should they have democracy. Answer is Yes and they should. And I wish them well. But as soon as they started waving UK and US flags, they lost my support last year. The riots and violence could be less. But its not up to Beijing, nor does Beijing have the actual say in Hongkong politics unless they change the current game which means flip the table with Hongkong elites. You see, Hongkong is like a Chinese colony at the moment. Beijing ruled it exactly like the way the british empire did. They apoint some Hongkong elites to rule, and promise them rigged elections to make sure they rule. In exchange, Beijing get loyalty. It all worked well until the elites are just greedy bastards want nothing else than making profits from its citizens and rule them like colonial subjects. Ever heard of Cage homes in Hongkong? The western news just don’t give you details, cry democracy and freedom is more effective to say CCP is the bad guy. My take is nothing is black white, just many shades of grey.
        
        For Chinese politics, I don’t like Xi, I prefer Deng a lot more to Xi, but probably not the way you would like me to dislike him.
        I see you seems to be an intelligent person, so I’ll take extra time to reply you. You see, I watch news from two sides, on the Chinese side, I watch more social media response to certain events than the official news, but I try to understand every major voice. On the english side, I watch both left and right, I even watch Fox. There are lies and truth in all directions. So I don’t easily make my judgement like some Wumao or redneck does. And I only speak or act upon objective reality. Compassion and evidence is my guideline.
        That’s my 2 cents.
        
        I’ll save Uyghurs for next time.
        
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        May 18, 2020 6:11pm
      - Jack5
        
        Thank you, Harry.
        
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        May 18, 2020 8:22pm
      - HemiT
        
        i disagree Harrywenjie . NZ’s not on a leash
        
        is good to trade with China but can survive without them .
        
        with millions of jobless ( 2016 ) the ccp can’t get a handle on their own country .
        https://www.abc.net.au/foreign/the-labours-of-mr-zhang/7663290
        
        China trying to take over anyone i think is just too costly for them .
        
        after months of fighting Hong Kong won the fight to have the extradition bill withdrawn .
        
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        May 18, 2020 10:07pm
Simon

Economy in big trouble. It’s time for Ardern to call in Greta.
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May 18, 2020 8:22am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Greta is a Covid 19 expert now. Climate change is somehow not important anymore. How dare she?
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:50am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Old tales of warning come around and get repeated.
    Trojan Horse
    Pied Piper
    Hansel and Gretel
    Emperors New Clothes
    Rumpelstiltskin
    
    Greta will no doubt be written about in the future as some misguided child that led nations astray.
    
    Try as I might, I can’t find a comparison.
    Pied Piper has some similarity, but still way off.
    
    No doubt there is a story that resonates with someone, that describes Greta’s persona and the mis-leading of intelligent leaders down the garden path.
    
    History is littered with tales of Kings and Kingdoms bought to ruins by the actions of a few who were spinners of false tales.
    
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    May 18, 2020 12:46pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Joan of Arc.
      
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      May 18, 2020 6:20pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Didn’t ruin her own kingdom, did she?
        
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        May 18, 2020 7:08pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Sorry Maggy, down ticked by mistake.
        
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        May 19, 2020 12:14am
cmm

Pity Dr Simon Thornley from University of Auckland has not been getting airtime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cB_DEbXrhE

Unfortunately he, and others, have been labeled a “Covi d-19 contrarians”.

Have they been censored? Not entirely, but definitely not been given the platform that people like the “80,000 people will die” brigade.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018743518/covid-19-contrarians-claim-they-re-being-censored
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May 18, 2020 8:34am
- PhilBest
  
  So much “debate” on this and other issues consists of “we must listen to the experts, so shut up everyone else”.
  
  But governments and elites somehow get to dictate “which experts”. Of course they got to choose who got the government advisory positions on everything in the first place. Then the experts making their own way apart from the teat of taxpayer money somehow get discounted as if they aren’t even experts at all.
  
  This is one of the points on which we need to be vigilant or we can lose our freedom.
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:43am
  - cmm
    
    We cannot trust our politicians to choose the experts, unless the experts are deep fried and come with chicken salt.
    
    Nor can we trust our bureaucrats since they have a vested interest in:
    1) Doom and gloom that gives them power.
    2) Going with the WHO/whatever narrative so that they don’t put their careers at risk.
    
    Looking for dissenting opinions might be the right thing for us, but it is risky for them so they won’t do it.
    
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    May 18, 2020 8:54am
    - PhilBest
      
      You just gave us an important first principle:
      
      “Looking for dissenting opinions” is the right thing. It needs to be made a requirement of government and publicity surrounding an issue. I recall that Rodney Hide thought the Auckland amalgamation would be OK because he’d built into the legislation, a new requirement that all policy advice had to be “contestable”. The principle was right but in practice, the “contesting advice” was simply ignored.
      
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      May 18, 2020 9:33am
  - cmm
    
    Thornley is another one of the people saying that if you want to understand the true picture then you need to do antibody (serology) testing. This is obvious to anyone that understands anything.
    
    It is telling that our MoH refuses to do any antibody testing. Getting the true picture does not serve their interests.
    
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    May 18, 2020 8:58am
    - PhilBest
      
      All over the real first world, they are keen to do antibodies testing and become better informed. NZ is really showing itself up.
      
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      May 18, 2020 9:34am
    - Ian Boag
      
      @cmm
      
      Every so often we go round this one “we should be doing antibody testing” to which the reply is “the current technology is not up to snuff “. If I am tested and deemed to be not infected or immune the result is quite likely but not definitive.
      
      I won’t bother posting any links because there are oodles that make this point. I have posted some of them before.
      
      Serology tests with current kit are sort of OK for statistical purposes, but pretty useless for individuals. Just not accurate enough …..
      
      Alas. Bugger.
      
      When they get better, NZ and the rest of the world will be all doing it. We really need it to get a handle on the asymptomatic/recovered level.
      
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      May 18, 2020 5:10pm
  - kowtow
    
    Ferguson Mac Lockdown’s expertise is being questioned in the UK media , that should be a very big story here , but our media want to talk about hair dye and coffee.
    
    And frighteningly that’s being bought by the swing voter .
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:12am
    - PhilBest
      
      Our modelling was even worse than Ferguson’s but there is little sign to date that the MSM is interested in knowing one way or the other
      
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      May 18, 2020 9:36am
  - Michael NZ
    
    too late Phil
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:49am
- alex Masterley
  
  There seems to be a push in the Universities to stop people offering contrary views. I recently heard a senior academic say that other academics had asked him not to offer opinions and ideas that did not fit into the group think that has surrounded the covid-19 pandemic.
  Obviously academic freedom of expression is something from the past.
  
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  May 18, 2020 8:50am
  - cmm
    
    This is nothing new. It goes back at least to the 1960s as being a strong force.
    
    Indeed in the 1930s, Max Planck said something along the lines of “Science advances on funeral at a time”.
    
    It is interesting to read the biography of Dr Ballard – the guy who found the Titanic. In the 1960s he was doing research on the tectonic plate theory (still a wild theory at the time). His research was shut down and he was threatened with being fired because his boss backed the alternate theory (and had a whole pile of publications etc).
    
    You can understand it from a pure ego perspective. If you’re a world authority in something that has been your life’s work then the last thing you want is someone to turn it on its head and show that all your papers and all the conference speeches you gave over the last 30 years were wrong.
    
    Now that money is wrapped up in research you can understand it even more: go against climate change and you might lose funding. Who’s going to pay your mortgage and feed the kids?
    
    I take my hat off to people like Thornley who are prepared to swim against the stream.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:11am
    - PhilBest
      
      https://wmbriggs.com/post/30833/
      
      “…The only evidence for lockdowns is the desire that lockdowns worked. That, and the embarrassment (and worse) in admitting to error. What politician anywhere will cop to ruining their economy and the lives of millions of their citizens? Who can say “Ah, it was only a few trillion”? This will not happen. It just won’t. All politicians will and much go on repeating that their lockdowns “saved lives”.
      
      They have to. It’s suicide not to…
      
      “…There is a distinct tendency, at least in the Western media, to ascribe merit and blame for every event to people. What egos we all have!
      
      In the US it went like this. The virus was caused or exacerbated by the political party I disfavor. If persons in the party I favored were listened to, this would not have been as big a crisis. The virus spread so rapidly because of the actions of the party I disfavor. The party I favor helped stem the tide and saved lives. The crisis would have ended sooner, and more lives would have been saved, if the people in the party I hate were ignored. Science saved us!
      
      Nature gets no credit. Not for the creation of the virus, not for its highly variable spread, not for its highly variable infection rate, and certainly not for its hugely variable deaths caused. All those things were believed to be the responsibility of people. Nature has no real power, we think. It can be controlled to any degree of precision desired, if only we can muster sufficient political will and suppress our enemies.
      
      We can credit, as we’ve already seen, the lockdowns for causing any number of difficulties, such as massive job loss, grief, disharmony, terror, and even death. It cause hubris to rise to the bursting point.
      
      But the pandemic numbers suggest that this was yet another in an endless string of viruses that came, did its damage, and is fading into the background. It was not nearly as deadly as others in the last 100 years.
      
      Chances are we can do little to prevent pandemics like this. It’s the expectation that we can that inspired the panic. If we don’t remove that expectation, we’re going to have to go through this again…”
      
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      May 18, 2020 9:39am
- Stephen Russell
  
  There’s nothing wrong per se with being a contrarian. Nor with the label. Of course, being a contrarian does not automatically make one right. Most contrarians are nutcases.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:05am
  - cmm
    
    Of course there is nothing wrong per se, nor is there anything wrong, per se, with being a “denier”.
    
    But it is a label that, as you say, gets you binned in with nutcases.
    
    So who decides on the classification? Basically he who pays the piper calls the tune. The government decides what they want to hear and the players fall into line – not wanting to be labeled “denier” or “contrarian”.
    
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    May 18, 2020 9:31am
  - Nickc2
    
    Didn’t I read somewhere where our PM is a contrarian? She certainly mixes with a lot of them. It appears they are all in the Labour Party.
    
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    May 18, 2020 12:00pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Nutters and Contrarians are not the same thing.
      
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      May 18, 2020 1:42pm
      - Nickc2
        
        They are now, the all put their hands up.
        
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        May 18, 2020 2:53pm
- bruceavon
  
  Did you actually read who of that article? It goes on to say they weren’t really censored at all, that the articles are everywhere. Pays to read these things through.
  Simon Thornily and the Plan B group don’t seem to know how the world works. They formed a group and then demanded coverage and airtime. It doesn’t work like that. You have to fight for your media space and have a strategy. They formed a group of academics, no one knows, and none of who have any media pulling power and then are surprised the press aren’t interested after their opening statement. The public didn’t really care. They supported the lock down in huge numbers, so they were preaching to a very small cohort of non believers. In the meantime, the official view was everywhere. and the PM doing a media stand up every day. Very naive to expect to simply form a group of unknowns to opposed that. Its not “censorship” its how the capitalist world works. The very small fish do not get the attention the big fish do.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:18am
  - cmm
    
    If you had actually read what I wrote, I did say that they were not fully censored.
    
    It is telling that the Media watch article saying they are given a reasonable view also applies negative labels (contrarian) and uses sarcasm. Clearly a very biassed article.
    
    Sure there are some articles, but they are few.
    
    For example, who gets the most quotes: Simon Thornley (who is an epidemiologist) or Shaun Hendy (a physicist)?
    
    And they keep confidently quoting Hendy even his outrageous modelling is complete rubbish (80,000 deaths, yeah right)!
    
    And somehow the government keep listening to Hendy even though he is repeatedly way off. He does say things they like though.
    
    Who selected Shaun Hendy to be a big fish? Who selected Thornley to be a “contrarian”. Why the media do!
    
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    May 18, 2020 10:18am
    - bruceavon
      
      Ok. Sorry mate. I thought from the way you talked the article supported your argument. My mistake. My point is a group of unknown academics can’t expect to form a group and simply expect to have equal airtime as the government and government endorsed people like Hendy. All over the world media have selected the most extreme modelling to say “80,000 will die” etc. why? Because it sells the most and makes them the most money. The thing that annoys me is no one explains that often the modelling is based on governments doing nothing and the virus given a free range, with the worst cases of transmission. In short a completely unrealistic worst case scenario that would never ever happen. But this is not censorship. It is a failure by this group to get a well known person to advocate for them and to use publicity well. They got in most media when they launched, and I totally support the alternate view. But then nothing seemed to happen.
      
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      May 18, 2020 12:06pm
- Cassandra
  
  Fascinating. Well worth examining further. My own conclusion (as a vulnerable person, old, immune compromised) 4 weeks ago was that oldies should be lock downed (locked up?) and the rest of the country should get back to work and school. But tourism is dead no matter what. We are in for a reset.
  
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  May 18, 2020 10:48am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “We are in for a reset.”
    
    Yeah but if the country is your baby and your baby is a bit sick, you wouldn’t let it drop and bounce on the pavement to see if that will “reset” it.
    
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    May 18, 2020 1:45pm
Maggie Pie

A fruiend tweets:
‘Labor release photo of ‘Think Tank’ that worked on the budget’

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYNevttU4AAzp91?format=png&name=small
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May 18, 2020 8:37am
rangitoto

Covid-19 is amazing:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYPN6YKXYAAln-i?format=jpg&name=large
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May 18, 2020 8:44am
- Ed Snack
  
  Just one thing on that list (I know it’s satire !) that is bad, the comment about targeting the food chain by closing down Meat production.
  
  That is actually a real thing, but with a real explanation. Meatworks are both noisy and cold, and the noise means that people talk loudly and at close range – thus making the spread of virus laden “Flugge” particles much more likely, and the cold means that the viral particles survive for extended periods. Places like supermarkets etc don’t have the same environment, arms-length or further contact is typical, and the environment is quiet enough for normal speaking volumes with (usually but not always) minimal production of virus infected particles. So an environment far less likely to host a cluster.
  
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  May 18, 2020 11:58am
  - Tall Man
    
    And we had heaps of clusters at meatworks …………
    
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    May 18, 2020 1:33pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    In respect of supermarkets and butchers: What utter horse shit.
    
    A butcher in a butcher shop and a butcher in a supermarket are all are covered by the same regulations, standards, and processes. There is no practical difference with respect to temperature, cleanliness, handling of meat etc.
    
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    May 18, 2020 1:50pm
Yvette

BS Alert
Do I really think the Prime Minister’s Security Detail did not report back “Roger, Olive cafē is ‘clear’ and secure, but at the moment is a little full, with not a free table for Eagle and flock. We may have to flock off somewhere else. Over, Roger”
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May 18, 2020 8:53am
- cmm
  
  I suspect the PR detail reported back something like “Photo op at the Olive cafe, get there quick”.
  
  Shame, they were probably just settling in for a nice microwaved lasagne in front of the telly.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:15am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Where’s the PR in that?
    
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    May 18, 2020 5:43pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Or
  
  Too full for our standards. Too much risk to “eaglet”.
  And like Harry and Meghan we want to avoid any publicity.
  
  Pffffff!
  
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  May 18, 2020 1:54pm
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300014537/behrouz-boochani-as-i-learn-to-live-in-freedom-in-new-zealand-australia-still-torments-refugees

So here we have a manipulative puff piece on some guy who is blatantly an overstayer?
Welcome to globalisation folks.
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May 18, 2020 8:53am
- alloytoo
  
  Complaints can be directed to :
  
  janine.fenwick@stuff.co.nz.
  
  then
  
  info@mediacouncil.org.nz
  
  Doubt it will do much good.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:28am
Happychappy

So has there been a law change for this man to become a refugee and be allowed to stay in New Zealand.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300014537/behrouz-boochani-as-i-learn-to-live-in-freedom-in-new-zealand-australia-still-torments-refugees
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May 18, 2020 8:56am
- cmm
  
  With all these other ways of getting international face time, it looks like She has lost a bit of interest in those Manus Island people. She doesn’t need them any more.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:17am
Komata

Maggie@0821

It’s an interesting movie isn’t it? FWIW: It’s no ‘accident’ that NZ now has so many Chinese resident here (although I would question the military equivalent you mentioned), but is part of a very carefully-thought out plan of non-military colonisation by the CCP; a process that was first tried in Africa and when proven successful, has been slowly and quietly extended to those parts of the world perceived as being within China’s ‘Sphere of interest’.

Unlike other examples of colonial expansion, the Chinese have learnt that to take control of a country doesn’t require guns, just skillful ‘manipulation’ of local rulers and, should they ‘stray’ from the desired path, their removal and replacement by more ‘compliant’ individuals. The creation of indebtedness is an equally-useful tool in situations where local leaders are not be to be ‘purchased’. Pay-out enough rope, then reel the nation in…

New Zealand is one such area, the intention being that we should become the Chinese ‘Dairy Farm’ in a manner similar to the role’ we enjoyed under the former British Empire, and to date, the ‘conversion process’ to create this situation has been remarkably successful, since after all who WOULDN’T say yes to immense amounts of money willingly spent to ‘boost the local economy’.

With the ‘Belt and Road’ now firmly entrenched, and tied as NZ is to Beijing via the trade treaty (Thanks H Clark), it will not be too long before Beijing ‘yanks our chain’, and it will be at that point that things become interesting.

Unfortunately, given the socialist views of both NZ’s main political parties, IMHO we will be an easy pick and will simply cave-in.

Time will tell whether or not I am correct, but if I am, expect larger numbers of ‘refugees’ to arrive from the Mainland in the next few years.

In that respect, ‘colonisation’ (the subjugation of one people group by another), hasn’t changed; just the ethnicity of those subjugating…
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May 18, 2020 8:58am
- kowtow
  
  The free trade policy was proudly and loudly proclaimed to have been bi partisan . National , prior to the last GE were very receptive to Belt and Road .
  
  This country’s political and business elites are donkey deep with the CCP and we need to have a bigly conversation about that .
  
  But whenever Prof Brady or Matt Nippert are brought up certain interests , cough cough , get very aggressive and dismissive.
  
  Always remember two won tons better than one mutton sag.
  
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  May 18, 2020 11:00am
- Sacha
  
  I wonder how the Tangata Whenua will respond ?
  
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  May 18, 2020 11:59am
  - Tall Man
    
    Money will fix it.
    
    4 2
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    May 18, 2020 1:33pm
- Jack5
  
  Attitudes to the protests in Hong Kong reveal how far Communism, Beijing style, has infiltrated New Zealand.
  
  Hong Kong demonstrations rate barely a mention on our State TV and State radio, nor in our beleaguered print media.
  
  Nor is attention paid to Taiwan, with its outstanding success in controlling Wuhan flu, and which was the source of some of our earlier post-World War 2 Chinese settlers in Auckland.
  
  Contrast the paltry news coverage of Hong Kong demonstrations with that which given the Tiananmen Square protests in 1989.
  
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  May 18, 2020 1:46pm
Captain Mainwaring

I see that Golriz is calling for the debt held by third world countries to be wiped. This is global communism in action.
Reason 66784 why these idiots should be banished from our Parliament on Sept. 20.
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May 18, 2020 9:02am
- rangitoto
  
  That’s because the mad CoL are turning NZ into a third world country.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:52am
Maggie Pie

Reading her column in Stuff this morning, Leo Molloy’s facebook post certainly appears to have bent Ali Mau out of shape 😛

https://twitter.com/nz_hill/status/1261873739827826688/photo/1
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May 18, 2020 9:13am
- All_on_Red
  
  Marja could have some breach of privacy issues to deal with.
  Meanwhile, she’s so bad that Labour have put her into Half-Witless Protection.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:46am
- graham
  
  There is so much gold in that post!
  
  “… the Prime Minister of Candy Floss …”
  “I feel like I’m being attacked by rabid demented butterflies …”
  “… let’s agree that Maria (sp) Lubeck scares no one (except maybe her husband who must be having regrets) …”
  
  I must jot some of these down.
  
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  May 18, 2020 12:45pm
  - Hollyfield
    
    And Twyford would arrive 10 years late and with his boxing gloves on backwards.
    
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    May 18, 2020 5:45pm
Greg Ettridge

A couple cannot share a platter, but a prostitute can satisfy a dozen a day, seems very fair and equitable system to me.
How do you distance, “woof woof” I guess.
I just see the beauracraps studying the Karma Sutra to justify their directions of what they call law of the land.
Made me laugh, single people in Holland can now pick one sex partner and thats it. You would be pissed if it all turned south on the first fling.
This would all be hilarious if they were not destroying the economy and racking up a debt my grandchildrens grandchildren will be paying for.
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May 18, 2020 9:35am
- Ruawai
  
  Good I hate sharing plates at restaurants, you always have one who eats it all or you end up dividing things up to make it fair.
  
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  May 18, 2020 10:05am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  ‘woof, woof’ LOL
  
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  May 18, 2020 10:25am
UrbanNeocolonialist

If everyone wears mask risk of interpersonal infection is about 2% of what it is without masks, so what possible reason is there for govt not to make it mandatory? So easy and vastly cheaper than extreme lockdown measures:

https://twitter.com/premillenial/status/1260448146481692675/photo/1
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May 18, 2020 9:38am
- Ruawai
  
  Don’t think they have enough masks.
  
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  May 18, 2020 10:04am
- cmm
  
  Because then they don’t get their mugs on the telly…
  
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  May 18, 2020 2:12pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just had a thought. If whorehouses are an essential service, do you have to sign in?
Who would use their real name?
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May 18, 2020 9:41am
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partner went to the Royal Oak branch this morning to get a new microwave for his office. Walked straight in no questions asked.
  
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  May 18, 2020 9:52am
  - rangitoto
    
    Whorehouses sell microwaves these days. Who knew?
    
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    May 18, 2020 10:04am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Microwaves for sale – free set of ……..
      
      4 1
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      May 18, 2020 11:01am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Strange place to buy a microwave
    
    8 1
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    May 18, 2020 10:23am
    - JackRabbit
      
      As long as you do not get a bun in the microwave…
      
      2 1
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      May 18, 2020 2:01pm
  - graham
    
    Maggie you might want to re-read Steve’s comment …
    
    … it’s not the Warehouse he mentioned. 🙂
    
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    May 18, 2020 10:28am
    - Tall Man
      
      “Tongue in cheek” ………..
      
      Nursie humour?
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa2JhlyU-8M
      
      4 1
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      May 18, 2020 1:31pm
  - Alex13
    
    What a great business idea: brothels selling home appliances too! That’d divert lots of customers away from Harvey Norman and the likes.
    
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    May 18, 2020 10:30am
    - Tall Man
      
      Would certainly beat “Flybuys”.
      
      5 1
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      May 18, 2020 1:25pm
      - seismac
        
        Ive got so many Flybyes I could get 8 at 150/hr and still get a microwave
        
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        May 18, 2020 3:35pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Next to Otahuhu where they usually walk out with the microwave, often without any money changing hands . . .
    
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    May 18, 2020 11:20pm
Ruawai

JA in Mike Hoskings interview this morning said did Mike want her to make it rain to help Auckland and then at the end said we need to look at alternative water supplies going forward due to climate change. I suspect she has no idea there is a pipeline already operating from the Waikato to Auckland, they just need have Government permission to pump more water.
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May 18, 2020 10:03am
- Brian Marshall
  
  She had no friggen clue.
  
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  May 18, 2020 12:33pm
- Paulus
  
  Not Government permission needed but more Koha to the Tangata Whenua.
  Ongoing discussions for last 7 years I understand.
  
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  May 18, 2020 1:56pm
- cmm
  
  Well that’s dumb.
  
  Anyone looking at a map can see that it was stupid to put a pipeline from Waikato to Auckland. It goes up! What a waste of electricity.
  
  Should have built it during Labour’s time in office and they’d have put in a pipeline from Warkworth so that it would go down to Auckland and they could have used natural gravity.
  
  Her skills really are wasted in a tiny country like NZ. The sooner She can get to the UN and solve problems for billions of people, then better.
  
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  May 18, 2020 2:18pm
I remember when

Part of Stuff article about hungry children:
“Principal of Finlayson Park School, Shirley Maihi, is ready for a tough start to school.
The return to school will be about “recovery” she said. There will be no rush to get back to the normal timetable: instead the day will incorporate more breaks, games and activities.”
So here we are with almost 20 weeks of the year gone and we have already had 12 weeks without school. Sounds like a low decile school so probably not many devices to allow children to do school work during lockdown.
Of course they don’t want to rush into the normal timetable.
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May 18, 2020 10:13am
KevO'Brien

Mental health has been damaged in NZ too:
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/state-lockdowns-are-creating-mental-health-disaster
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May 18, 2020 10:24am
All_on_Red

An eye opening article about unfunded Pension liability in Illinois.
Some of the Salarys Public Servants earn seem pretty high…
https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamandrzejewski/2020/04/27/why-illinois-is-in-trouble–109881-public-employees-with-100000-paychecks-cost-taxpayers-14b/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
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May 18, 2020 10:26am
- Tall Man
  
  Pffttt, they pale into insignificance here because we have so much more …………. I dunno.
  
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  May 18, 2020 1:23pm
All_on_Red

Presidential job approval after 1209 days in office, according to Gallup polling:

George W. Bush—46%

Barack Obama—47%

Donald Trump—49%
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May 18, 2020 10:35am
- mikenmildagain
  
  That’s cool. Did you realise that those numbers for Obama and Bush were towards the bottom end of their approval ratings, while Trump’s 49% is just about his highest?
  Also, does Gallup seem a little bit of an outlier atm? 538 has 44% aggregate approval today,vs 51% aggregate disapproval. RCP is a bit kinder, 46% approval vs 51% disapproval.
  
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  May 18, 2020 12:25pm
I remember when

UK Covid-19 Details to Date:
To date 85.6% of deaths are in the 75+ age group.
Of a total of 29,504 for the 75+ age group there were 9,750 care home residents. In England/Wales care home residents made up 25% of the total deaths and Scotland 25% of all deaths.
On average April sees 8,400 deaths in care homes. This year there were 26,563. Of these only 8,000 are attributed to covid-19 on death certificates.
This raises questions, to be investigated, about the reasons for the extra 10,000 deaths.
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May 18, 2020 10:38am
- krazykiwi
  
  I’ve been tracking Excess Mortality stats too. KevO’Brien posted a useful like above, re the mental health consequences of the lockdown. In the case of excess care home mortalities I suspect many elderly were denied access to medical care ‘lest they clog up the NHS’
  
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  May 18, 2020 11:58am
I remember when

In the UK 131 care home staff are recorded as covid-19 deaths, being about twice as likely to die as healthcare workers. Lack of or incorrect use of PPE is suggested as one reason this this difference.
Rate of deaths among healthcare workers – nurses, midwives, doctors, nursing assistants, paramedics, ambulance staff and hospital porters – was not “statistically different” to the general population.
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May 18, 2020 10:47am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Something for the lefties. Don’t get triggered OK?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK1ylcdMukQ
4 1
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May 18, 2020 10:48am
I remember when

Did the Government not make greater use of temperature measurement at point of entry because they thought it might get too hot?
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May 18, 2020 10:54am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Wife: Did I get fat during quarantine? Husband: Well, you weren’t actually skinny to begin with! “Cause Of Death” Covid-19. ~Doc
12 2
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May 18, 2020 11:06am
jv

Chris Trotter in Bowalley Road lauds Dr Bloomfield for “saving” us from Covid-19 but he asserts that, because neo-liberalism has eviscerated the public service, the other key state ministries will not be able to deliver on the “breath-taking” Budget. That outcome is very likely to be true.

“The state is an institution whose ineffectiveness is accepted a priori, the less there is of it the more efficiently our economy is predicted to perform.” Well praise be to that.

How come then, that in this dire state sector environment, the “remarkable” CEO Health and his Ministry have been so amazingly successful? Maybe the difference, against all such odds, is simply leadership. Shove the Minister off back to Dunedin and get on with it. And yes top leadership does allow for a few mistakes, then it is the putting right that counts.
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May 18, 2020 11:16am
- Tall Man
  
  It’s really easy to solve a non existent problem.
  
  It’s all part of the “sales system”.
  
  1) Create or find a problem
  
  2) Motivate the client to want to solve that problem
  
  3) offer solutions then repeat (3)
  
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  May 18, 2020 1:18pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Lot of Gun crime and killings by Guns in NZ over the last 2 years.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/416881/rates-of-gun-crimes-and-killings-using-guns-at-highest-levels-in-a-decade
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May 18, 2020 11:28am
- MCos
  
  I suppose it depends who the measurement is against.
  
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  May 18, 2020 1:04pm
- Jack5
  
  These figures would surely have been blown out by the mosque massacres.
  
  I note in the report this:
  
  “On a global scale, gun crime remains incredibly low in New Zealand.”
  
  So, did we need to tighten the firearms ownership laws, or if we did, did we need to tighten them so much – that is, beyond banning assault rifles?
  
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  May 18, 2020 1:39pm
  - cmm
    
    … and did we tighten them in the right places?
    
    If we put aside the Chch mosque shootings as a once off aberration then it is almost all gangs, gangs, gangs…
    
    “In each of the last two years, New Zealand recorded 2.4 gun-related deaths per million people.” So 12 deaths in a year? Does that include suicide? Those numbers are so low that you can’t really draw any stats from them.
    
    3 1
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    May 18, 2020 2:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Smoking and sanitiser.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zIgJmmtZi0
4 1
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May 18, 2020 11:31am
Inandout

Where is Behrouz Boochani?
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May 18, 2020 11:46am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Christchurch. He likes riding his bike and watching the birds.
  
  8 0
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  May 18, 2020 12:43pm
- Tall Man
  
  Enjoying life at your expense.
  
  8 0
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  May 18, 2020 1:14pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Going by the story in Stuff this morning, not where he should be which is not in New Zealand.
  
  10 0
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  May 18, 2020 1:20pm
  - Jack5
    
    In the photograph with the Stuff report, is that the Leftist Mayor Christchurch welcoming Boochani to Christchurch.
    
    The Stuff report was printed in the Sydney Morning Herald originally.
    
    That will help Jacinarella get her Australasian bubble up: a would-be gatecrasher to Australia living happily in Christchurch, an overstayer under NZ’s immigration laws.
    
    Will Boochani go through the back door to Australia in a bi-country bubble?
    
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    May 18, 2020 1:27pm
Maggie Pie

Heard some moron call into Peter Williams before to complain about “….people that don’t stand on the lines when they queue outside the supermarket.”
Honestly! You could tell from the sound of his voice that we was a labor voter before he even spoke.
LOL.
21 4
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May 18, 2020 12:01pm
- Ruahine
  
  It really annoys me also Maggie. I see all these morons lining up and not keeping the correct spacing. I feel like stopping my SUV and getting out and go and yell at them in a loud voice. ‘Its two metres!!. Its two metres.!! Do you all not watch TV.
  The government is spending millions and millions on advertisements to save our lives and you stupid lot are just not listening.’ Its no wonder our Prime Minister can’t get into a cafe. its all your fault’.
  
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  May 18, 2020 1:36pm
- seismac
  
  sorry –died in the wood Nat blue
  
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  May 18, 2020 3:39pm
mikenmildagain

Apologies if anyone else has commented on this:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121538766/the-great-plaque-mystery-cold-war-wellington-spy-case-gets-murkier
I think most people always assumed Dr Sutch had no honest purpose in meeting a KGB agent in the Aro Valley toilets. apparently, his wife’s biography reveals what he was handing over, and that he died a very wealthy man.
It’s a pity that the other Soviet agents (must have been a few more) will probably never be revealed.
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May 18, 2020 12:40pm
- burt
  
  I think most people always assumed Dr Sutch had no honest purpose in meeting a KGB agent in the Aro Valley toilets
  
  Men meet in toilets for all sorts of reasons, some even get special flights to bring them back to NZ from LA.
  
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  May 18, 2020 2:46pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Well, we all have a past, burt. Now that more details of the Sutch affair have been revealed, I’m looking forward to other mysteries being solved too. The Trades Hall bombing springs to mind. With a bit of luck, the perpetrator of that horror is still alive, and will get to spend his last days in prison.
    
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    May 18, 2020 4:34pm
JibberJabber

You have to wonder who the family think they are fooling,
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121538766/the-great-plaque-mystery-cold-war-wellington-spy-case-gets-murkier

5 mil in a Swiss bank acc, properties in Wellington, Kapiti, Auckland and the Bahamas.
KGB records showing he worked for them for 24 years.
Deluding themselves, maybe?
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May 18, 2020 12:48pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump – virus is just like the flu:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC1-FOwDtV0
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May 18, 2020 12:48pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Jesus, there are a few humourless fucks on here today. I thought the teachers went back to school?
  
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  May 18, 2020 3:36pm
Maggie Pie

Level 2 hasn’t been able to come quick enough for me.
My partner has finally gone back to work full-time.
He was sooo bored yesterday, he got out the old phone book and copied down about half-a-dozen random names and addresses. He then made numerous calls to the Council ‘tipline’ and potted them for washing their cars.
The funniest part was all the different accents. LOL!!!
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May 18, 2020 1:08pm
- seismac
  
  he is in real trouble now because he has been reported for
  not standing on the lines at New World
  washing his car
  washing his lettace patch
  going to the whore-house to buy a micro wave
  jumping the Q at cindys coffee shop
  its gulag for him in the brave new world
  
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  May 18, 2020 3:44pm
Jack5

I recall a Kiwiblog poster, perhaps CMM, discussing 3D printing and, I vaguely remember, less than favourably.

The MIT Review has an article about how 3D printing technology is trying to move into metal manufacture (at present it uses plastics).

One development uses metal powders mixed with polymer binding. The printer shapes the product, then a very small furnace sinters out the polymer.

https://www.technologyreview.com/2017/04/25/4855/the-3-d-printer-that-could-finally-change-manufacturing/?
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May 18, 2020 1:34pm
- cmm
  
  That was likely way back when people were losing their minds over the 3D printed Liberator gun and worrying that now every spotty teen with a 3D printer could make a gun. People were wanting to ban 3D printers, ban plan sharing sites etc etc.
  
  Most 3D printers (of the hobbyist variety) produce crap – poorly made and not up to the pressures a gun can produce.
  
  Sintered metal has been around for quite a few years but is incredibly expensive and is highly precise, producing very strong objects. There are some talk of using this to build artificial hip joints on demand. Spotty teens do not have these in the garage.
  
  Here we are a few years on and the worldwide number of people killed with a 3D printed Liberator gun still remains at zero.
  
  If people want to make their own guns it is way cheaper, easier and safer to do what people have been doing for decades: make a zip gun or pipe gun using $20 of hand tools from any hardware shop. Plans for these all over the internet.
  
  I am not advising people do this. It is only safe if you know what you are doing.
  
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  May 18, 2020 2:46pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    ‘poorly made and not up to the pressures a gun can produce.’
    For a criminal terrorist it only has to work once
    
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    May 18, 2020 2:59pm
    - cmm
      
      It won’t even work once properly and can only fire a low powered round very inaccurately. Due to the poor pressure sealing the bullet will not get to full speed.
      
      A $20 zip gun will work thousands of times and fire a more powerful round more accurately. Why bugger about with silly bits of plastic?
      
      The Liberator was designed to use a low powered .380ACP pistol round because of its very low pressure. The 380 only gets to approx 700fps in a Liberator-length barrel, but since the Liberator deliberately allows a lot of gas to escape to prevent over pressure, it probably only makes 200-300 fps with a tail wind.
      
      There are handheld slingshots more powerful than that.
      
      So if you’re going to freak out about terrorists getting weapons then it makes more sense to shut down sources of rubber bands.
      
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      May 18, 2020 5:05pm
  - Jack5
    
    When you are talking about 3D printed guns, CMM, I think you are talking about the plastic pistol made and test fired by by the American anarchist Cody Wilson.
    
    Wilson went on from that product of a home 3D printer to make home-hobbyist scale (in size, power, price) CNC machine tools, and, for these, Open Source (i.e. free) software that purportedly enables them to do machine work needed for making assault-rifle receivers.
    
    Wilson calls the mini machine tool the Ghost Gunner. It’s now up to version 3 and, at your own risk in case the Internet Spooks are watching, you can read about t at the maker’s site (link below). Wilson’s back with the firm making the Ghost Gunner, after being deported back to the USA from Taiwan and put on probation for seven years because of a sex offence.
    
    The machine tool:
    
    https://ghostgunner.net/
    
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    May 18, 2020 4:12pm
    - cmm
      
      Yup the freaking out about 3D printing was just case of very stupid people freaking out because they did nt understand (or maybe they just wanted to freak out).
      
      A hobby CNC machine, hobby lathe or hand tools (hacksaw and hammer) will make a far superior product to anything a cheap 3D printer could make.
      
      I would be highly skeptical of a sintered metal gun because sintering is not a good way to make a pressure vessel. Too easy to end up with flaws and cracks.
      
      A
      
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      May 18, 2020 5:11pm
Happychappy

Jacinda’s marks seem to be doing and keeping the Prime Minister well informed with 250 complaints ts a day.
You wonder how many are narking on there nextdoor neighbors because they don’t like them.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12332683
Jacinda and her partner might regret her actions someday as there could be many waiting to do the same to her family.
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May 18, 2020 2:00pm
[moderated]

There’s nothing like engaging in a conversation to find yourself in moderation for the next 2 hours. Not sure why I started commenting again, I blame lockdown.

Labour would be proud of this moderation policy. I think even Kelvin Davis could come up with it. Maybe he did and Twyford implemented it.
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May 18, 2020 2:28pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Wonder of this works? If not, mods can delete.
https://www.facebook.com/dioncini/videos/10159130774634587/
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May 18, 2020 2:29pm
Surely Knott

From RNZ “Professor Westacott: Covid-19 pandemic ‘spells the end of the neoliberal era'” Westacott is a professor of philosophy also known for his book, “the wisdom of Frugality”. As an aside you can buy his book, the wisdom of frugality on Booktopia for $49! Maybe neoliberalism isn’t dead afterall.
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May 18, 2020 2:51pm
krazykiwi

There are 16,733,000 people aged <20 years in the UK. Just 10 have died with Covid-19, giving a fatality rate of 0.000059%

I know parents of teens who are paralyzed with fear for their kids. I can't understand why.
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May 18, 2020 2:59pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  And kids+teenagers have a normal annual risk of death higher than 0.01%, you would expect several 1000 in that age group to die every year under normal circumstances. With likely about 15% of UK population having now been infected (infected:dead = 200:1) , the risk of death for <10's is only about same as experienced in 2 weeks of normal life.
  
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  May 18, 2020 3:25pm
- MrTips
  
  That assumes all 16,733,000 got COVID-19, which clearly isn’t the case. But……
  
  lets assume 1:1000 did get COVID-19, or 16,733.
  
  10/16,733 = 0.059%.
  
  I think your point still stands.
  
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  May 18, 2020 4:00pm
RW Capitalist

I have been saving in a Rabbo bank for over 10 years.
A minor acct. that saves a small amount, just in case.
Received a demand to justify the reason for the acct., what I want it for etc.
When I rang them and asked why they wanted this info., which I deem a breach of my privacy, the answer was a little disturbing …………
The Reserve bank is requiring it!!!!
Not IRD, not treasury,……..the Reserve Bank?????
Need less to say I am removing MY money (not much really) and will close the acct.
Anyone else come across this?
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May 18, 2020 3:21pm
- quarterpack
  
  Yes a few year ago ANZ froze the business account I held with them, only agreeing to free funds after I presented my passport at branch. The business account was only a couple of years old at that stage, but I had been banking with them for decades prior with mortgage and personal.
  
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  May 18, 2020 5:49pm
JibberJabber

The COVID-19 website and the Prime Minister have both said that the maximum number of people allowed at a religious service is 10.

https://www.facebook.com/SimeonBrownMP/posts/1136362810075123?__tn__=K-R

Religious Services allowed under Level 2 with up to 100 people – why is the Government hiding this?

The restriction announced by the government of a maximum of 10 people at religious services appears to be unlawful, according to their own Regulations!
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May 18, 2020 3:31pm
greybeard

Just listening to John Banks on MagicTalk: he was discussing the Auckland water supply problem with the overpaid head-honcho dickhead from Auckland Watercare.
The Watercare person dithered and struggled and obfuscated, blaming everything on the RMA, the ecology and the so-called “Water Treatment problem”.
Everything in fact except for the obvious: that the Waikato maori are blocking the use of more river water because THEY CAN.
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May 18, 2020 5:23pm
- chaos
  
  No the Māori aren’t blocking it. Process is blocking it, the way that consents are dealt with are in there order they are received. The Auckland water application hasn’t even made it to the front of the que yet so it is impossible for Māori to block something that hasn’t even been discussed.
  
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  May 18, 2020 10:18pm

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