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November 18, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 November 2020

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General Debate

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Don Beckett

Have a happy day. Mikey will be along soon to tell us about it, 🙂
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November 18, 2020 8:03am
- C J Southern
  
  “Have a happy day.”
  
  Nah – I’ve already made other arangements!
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:31am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Just for Don, today’s the day to worship another Catholic demi-god. One of those amusing cephalophores.
  Juthwara was a pious girl who was the victim of a jealous stepmother. She prayed and fasted often, and frequently gave alms. Upon the death of her father, she began to suffer a pain in her chest. Its source was ascribed to her sorrow and austerities. As a remedy, her stepmother recommended two soft cheeses be applied to her breasts, telling her own son, Bana, that Juthwara was pregnant. Bana felt her underclothes and found them moist, whereupon he immediately struck off her head. A spring of water appeared at the spot. Juthwara then miraculously picked up her head and carried it back to the church. Bana repented of his deed and became a monk, founding a monastery.
  
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  November 18, 2020 10:23am
  - C J Southern
    
    Pretty much sums up the insanity that is religion.
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:54am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Interesting story Mike, but nothing to do with Catholics – we don’t have demi-gods – only One True God.
      But thanks for the interesting Hindu myth.
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:12am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I should have clarified – Saint Juthwara was a reputed martyr from sixth-century Dorset.
        
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        November 18, 2020 11:33am
      - C J Southern
        
        Given that there are over 10,000 mainstream religions worshiping over 700 different gods I sure hope you got the right one, but I have to tell you, the odds aren’t in your favour.
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:01pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        “Given that there are over 10,000 mainstream religions worshiping over 700 different gods”
        
        Do you have a “credible source” for those stats?
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:26pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/List_of_gods_that_theists_don%27t_believe_in
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:44pm
      - alwyn
        
        The story actually seems to be very similar to the legend of St Denis, first Bishop of Paris and the Patron Saint of France.
        A Catholic of course.
        Anyway the tale goes that Denis was sentenced to death by the Roman Emperor of the time during a persecution of the Christians.
        While marching Denis off to his execution the Roman soldier with him got tired of walking the rather long distance and sliced off Denis’s head near Monmartre. He, not having yet reached the place where he was supposed to meet his God, picked up the head and continued on his way till he reached the right place to the North-East of Paris. There is now a Benedictine Abbey there in his honour.
        Still, anyone who could believe Religious myths certainly wouldn’t be showing any evidence of a brain so wouldn’t need a connected head would he?
        
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        November 18, 2020 1:47pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        alwyn
        Wikipedia lists over 50 cephalophores (saints who carried their own heads).
        
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        November 18, 2020 2:51pm
Catgurl13

I am livid that this twat thinks he can dictate to us what type of car we can drive. After paying taxes my money is mine to decide what I want to buy for myself…..he makes me angry whenever I see his face spouting his crap.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/123387955/time-to-consider-petrol-and-diesel-car-import-ban-says-climate-change-minister
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November 18, 2020 8:04am
- Catgurl13
  
  Oh and add to that a new Nissan Leaf battery is $125,000 as advised by Nissan on Fairgo last week. There are currently no other alternatives in NZ.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:53am
  - C J Southern
    
    Sigh. No. A new Nissan Leaf battery is NOT $125,000.
    
    Nissan said that that was a mistake which makes it rather pointless posting it.
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:56am
    - raven
      
      CJ Southern: How much does it cost then?
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:26am
      - C J Southern
        
        No idea. All I do know is that it’s nothing like $125,000 because Nissan admitted that that price was incorrect. Pretty safe to assume that any kind of sanity check would lead a rational minded person to the same conclusion.
        
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        November 18, 2020 4:46pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        $250,000!
        
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        November 18, 2020 8:27pm
    - Fletch
      
      Whatever the price, it’s still pretty damn expensive. It looks like, based on the story, the company is developing an “alternate battery pack” for the price of $15,000.
      
      https://insideevs.com/news/453771/record-price-replace-nissan-leafs-pack-fix/
      
      I mean, are they joking? Considering that these batteries only last 8-10 years and are difficult to dispose of. That’s more than a really decent Jap import.
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:34am
      - rockape
        
        15000 bought me a 10 year old Jeep diesel that has a 900Km range on a $70 fill using my pac and save fuel vouchers! Yes I am a scottish cheapscate!
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:50pm
    - Okahu
      
      Catgurl is lashing out. As for a defeated Trumpwit, bullshit and denial is all that’s left. Whatever, let her go and buy a new $125,000 battery for her (non existent) Leaf worth less than say $30k all up on Trade me.
      Her pointless rage will be vindicated, Nissan will become more profitable but best yet, she will have paid eye watering amounts of GST for us all to enjoy. Win win win.
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:37am
    - Catgurl13
      
      $125,000 is what Fairgo reported Nissan as saying in response to the question.
      
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      November 18, 2020 12:09pm
      - C J Southern
        
        And for the sake of completeness – now also tell us what Nissan said in response to Fair Go’s inquiry …
        
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        November 18, 2020 4:48pm
  - Liberty
    
    “ Nissan Leaf battery is $125,000”
    
    Now the amount was disputed.
    But Nissan wouldn’t provide A correct cost. Why can’t Nissan provide a true cost ?
    The spineless fair go program failed to get some answers.
    A Battery might be fine for old peoples scooters but for Every day car that you would normally expect to last At least 200,000 klm before the wreckers. It may even have multiple owners.
    Yes it would have used a bit of petrol. And a few oil changers. If looked after
    The modern car. You buy and forget it. Even when it clocks up 200,000
    You can still drive Wellington to Auckland non stop.
    Electric cars might be cheap to power but over its life how many battery packs
    Are needed so the car can operate at maximum range.
    It would be quicker to take the train to Auckland then a five year old E Car
    needing a battery replacement.
    The economics over the life of the car simply don’t stack up.
    
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    November 18, 2020 11:56am
    - Nickc2
      
      With a new battery costing $125k, and a new Nissan Leaf costing $62k (+ORC), anyone considering buying a 2nd hand one has to be out of their minds.
      Despite what the pundits of EVs say, EVs are a quick way to go broke.
      When EV technology is such that I can drive Auckland to Wellington without a re-charge and still have enough power to do some running around before I have to put the damned thing on charge for 24+ hours before attempting the return journey, I may consider an EV but until then, no way in hell am I persuaded towards an EV.
      All that’s before I consider battery disposal charges and Road User Charges (which I’m picking will soon be implemented for EVs).
      
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      November 18, 2020 12:35pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Read my lips: “A NEW BATTERY FOR A NISSAN LEAF DOES NOT COST $125,000”
        
        Is any part of that unclear? Just because Nissan made a mistake when quoting the lady doesn’t make it $125,000 – and Catgurl13 telling only 1/2 the story doesn’t make it $125,000 either.
        
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        November 18, 2020 4:52pm
- Okahu
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  So, you are an advocate of people being able to buy whatever they like as long as they have previously paid tax? I’m not sure you have thought that one through. I suppose it’s an idea you could promote if you were a social nihilist. Bit surprised at all the up ticks. Maybe that was just a little virtual group hug with other climate denialists.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:14am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    So, tell me more about this ‘climate denialist’ thing.
    
    There is a climate? There isn’t?
    
    You know climate changes and has done since well, long before you were an idiot, right?
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:24am
    - Okahu
      
      Ah, ‘titis’, where to start?
      Ok, here we go.
      Climate denial does not, as you appear to think, suggest an ambivalence as to whether climate exists. Nope. Little more nuanced. It is a contraction of climate change denialist. Hence the headline in the July Scientific American “Climate Denial Spreads on Facebook…”
      
      Now we get to a much more difficult problem for you. You seem to be unaware of an overwhelming scientific consensus that the elevated amounts of carbon in the atmosphere, put there by humans in excess of natural cycles, is a wee bit problematic. There is a world wide movement encompassing individuals to international bodies and groups of nations determined to address the problem this poses.
      Equally. There is a group of wilful and ignorant numb nuts that refuse or can’t comprehend the science. Some allege sinister manipulations of evidence for nefarious ends by a vast conspiracy of otherwise decent intelligent people. Some refute observable phenomena as the product of natural cycles that actual scientists just can’t or won’t see as if on this matter, science isn’t actually their thing.
      All are supported in this dangerous stupidity by astroturfing efforts by emitter industries and the politicians and media outlets in their pockets.
      Others are just happy to enjoy a life unencumbered by consideration of their planets future. It’s like looking at your grandkids and saying ‘apparently you lot are fucked, sweet!’
      Those who are deniers like to gather in places like this. It’s hard being in a marginalised group on the wrong side of history so it’s nice to have somewhere you aren’t snubbed or mocked for your manifest ignorance. And believe me, that’s where you are. Consider this headline from the Guardian
      ‘The four types of climate denier, and why you should ignore them all’.
      I know, now you are triggered, this is YOUR safe space!
      Anyway, hope that helps.
      
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      November 18, 2020 12:21pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Definition of irony: someone with rampant verbal diahrroea taking hundreds of words to defend a “contraction”.
        
        An easy cross-check: did they also use the term “the science”?
        
        Yep. Story checks out. Imbecile.
        
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        November 18, 2020 8:36pm
  - Grizz
    
    The reality of this policy will be that cars will only be owned by the wealthy elite. I am all for an alternative energy transporting us where we do not need to rely upon imported fuels. However it is not realistic to stop sales of diesel and petrol vehicles in 10 years. The cost of electric vehicles and batteries are prohibitive to most car buyers. We also need time to invest in the electricity infrastructure to support them. If the only car you could buy was electric, do not expect government subsidies or freedom from road taxes. My local lines company has enough difficulty managing current loads, imagine the investment- cost of course passed onto consumers- required to manage charging everyone’s electric vehicle. I have not even started on impracticalities of towing freight and loads and the effect on tradesmen- cost again passed onto you.
    
    I feel electric vehicles will one day become standard, but give time for the economics and practicalities to sort themselves out. Only 10 years is just not realistic.
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:55am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You may be unaware, but we have this thing called the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS):
    
    https://www.mfe.govt.nz/ets
    
    If you go out and buy an Electric Vehicle tomorrow, New Zealand’s total emissions will not be reduced. This is why: Every time you fill up with petrol, you are buying units in the ETS – at a cost of about 10 cents per litre. Yes, I know you do not buy them directly, but the petrol company buys them for you. If you switch to an EV, you are no longer buying ETS emission units. That simply means that those units will be bought by another emitter.
    
    The ONLY way that New Zealand’s emissions can be reduced is to withdraw units from the scheme – i.e. lower the emissions cap.
    
    The point is that there is no need for politicians to weigh in with random ideas to reduce emissions. All of New Zealand’s international obligations are factored into the ETS. If there is something not working with the ETS, then fix it. The whole purpose of the scheme is to allow emissions to be reduced at least cost.
    
    A final point to note. The climate does not care whether emissions are reduced in New Zealand, or Poland or Belarus. And I can assure you that the marginal cost of reducing emissions in Poland is multiple times cheaper than reducing emissions in New Zealand.
    
    So what is the solution? Allow the ETS to do its job. Tell politicians to keep their random ideas to themselves. Yes that includes the idiocy of banning oil and gas exploration. If our domestic climate change policies are efficient, we will avoid destroying wealth in New Zealand. That means we can afford to contribute modest, but very cost effective amounts of money to helping Poland and Belarus to reduce their emissions, AND get credit for that against our own international obligations.
    
    So, I am not a “climate denier” as you put it. But I am opposed to mad policies that will impoverish the country.
    
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    November 18, 2020 11:07am
  - Catgurl13
    
    Oh dear what load of crap you spout lol.
    
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    November 18, 2020 12:11pm
- graham
  
  Yup. And as far as I know – happy to be corrected if I’m wrong – electric cars still have a long way to go before they can realistically and economically replace your average petrol car.
  
  Try finding, for example, a good realistically priced electric car that can tow your boat or fully laden trailer. I don’t have a boat, but my trailer gets a fair old workout and from what I remember there’s only a couple of electric cars that are rated for being able to tow a decent amount of weight, and they’re pretty damn expensive.
  
  Family holidays? We can’t fly anywhere, so for most families with kids a holiday means piling into the car and heading off to somewhere in NZ. Yeah, good luck with finding charging stations for all those electric cars. Not to mention, what do you do with the family while you’re charging the car for an hour or two on your six-hour road-trip?
  
  AND, let’s not forget this is the prat who racked up how many thousands of dollars on international flights in his last term! And he has the audacity to bleat on about how we need to reduce our transport emissions!
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:23am
- alphabeatrium
  
  They have no faith in the ETS.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:48am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  And the prick doesn’t even drive.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:50am
  - Paulus
    
    Why bother driving when you have a new BMW and driver at your disposal.
    
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    November 18, 2020 1:28pm
- alloytoo
  
  So our national fleet will age, safety will decline and those BEV’s that do get imported will be coal burners anyway.
  
  That’s before we start to deal with the pending environment disaster posed by used batteries.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:55am
- lastmanstanding
  
  OK Smart Arse Shaw. And how are your people going to be able to afford electric cars. Have you checked out the current price. A new family size starts at around $60K upwards.
  
  An old Nissan Leaf on its last battery legs is $20K.
  
  Open your mouth and you prove what a wanker and tosser you really are.
  
  But of course the real agenda is to have no cars but force the plebs into public transport so you decide where they can go and when they can go.
  
  Command Control Freak that you are.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:56am
  - Ehlana
    
    So if they were serious about this, wouldn’t it make sense to use the billions of cheap money they currently have access to for, say, subsidies or low interest loans (paid back out of energy savings) to help ordinary people insulate their homes/ install solar panels/ upgrade appliances, including the family car.
    Instead of just releasing more money to chase the same inadequate number of houses, with predictable results.
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:19am
    - hilaryt
      
      Yes. Well, for starters, that PM has said she’s going to provide more ways for ordinary folk to spend mega bucks on shelter in the first place, let alone improving it…the shelter we all have to fork out for to survive…in the housing bubble they & others have no interest in pricking by forcing down the price of land, but are actually keen on inflating even further.
      
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      November 18, 2020 12:09pm
- Flossie
  
  So annoyed this person who is only a list MP gets so much airtime and column inches. Being made a minister again has gone to his head. Most of us rejected Green party policies last month.
  
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  November 18, 2020 10:15am
  - Nickc2
    
    Unfortunately Flossie not enough of us rejected his brain-dead mob last election. His lot should have been given the flick like Winston’s mob.
    
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    November 18, 2020 11:11am
- Southtop2
  
  I drive my double cab diesel ute to help save the planet – way better than the electric vehicles:
  No need for additional mining of precious metals
  Cheaper to recycle the battery
  Trees need CO2 to survive and thrive and
  I can actually complete a trip without having to slow down to 60kph on an open road for fear of running out of charge.
  A Tesla or Nissan Leaf would struggle to get to where I fish
  So P right off James, I will give up my ute when you give up EVERYTHING that needs some form of mining – hypocrite walk dont fly
  
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  November 18, 2020 10:16am
- KevO'Brien
  
  There is some good news. Ignoring Shaw, new electric low cost cars without batteries may be available as early as next year. No recharging.
  More when the technology is fully visible.
  
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  November 18, 2020 10:40am
  - BeeJay
    
    Electric Cars without batteries! Must have a huge extension lead in the boot!
    
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    November 18, 2020 11:28am
    - fernglas
      
      An electric car without batteries is called a tram
      
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      November 18, 2020 1:04pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Electricity is proposed to be made to order without fossil fuels.
      More to follow in due course.
      
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      November 18, 2020 1:07pm
  - Jack5
    
    Electric low cost cars without batteries?
    
    The triple-decker flywheels will make them a bugger to get into parking buildings. ?
    
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    November 18, 2020 2:30pm
- potato
  
  Worth asking Jim how many government cars are electric because the Wiesel answer once decoded will be sweet F all because a line in the purchasing rules says electric cars must be purchased “Where practical” (that’s from government website reducing government fleet emissions) and folks there is ya answer – Not Practical
  
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  November 18, 2020 12:49pm
iMP

So, it begins. Speculation of a…

reversal of People’s decision on cannabis referendum
reversal of wealth tax absolutes
sick leave provisions to be rammed through
Capital Gains tax revived by govt. partner…

“No Ifs, no buts, no maybes…” Jimmy Bolger.
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November 18, 2020 8:07am
- hullkiwi
  
  Or….
  “Read my lips, no new taxes” George HW Bush, 1988.
  
  That ended well too…
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:11am
  - C J Southern
    
    It was a typo in the transcript – what he meant was “Know new taxes”.
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:08am
    - Justitia
      
      Actually it was “No newt axes”. Newts can be very dangerous if armed.
      
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      November 18, 2020 10:44am
- NewInoffensiveName
  
  Elect a “captain’s call” government, you get exactly that. Government by fiat.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:39am
  - sooty
    
    Whatever cindys friend Karen wants she gets!
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:07am
- hmmokrightitis
  
  Well, on NatRad this morning we are going to have a ban on vans! Will the new Tourism Minister become known as the VanBanMan?
  
  How idiotic. When the sector needs support and numbers from both ends of the market once we are allowed to move freely, we get stupidity like a van ban.
  
  Thanks 50% of NZ’ers, you voted well 😛
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:39am
  - sooty
    
    Only white ones!
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:09am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    The result just proved my long stated point that unless prospective voters have to pass an IQ test and a political knowledge test you will get the dumb and ignorant electing the incompetent.
    
    And so it came to pass.
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:59am
  - Colville
    
    The ban is for vans without a proper toilet.
    Good job too.
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:44am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      It is not as simple as that.
      
      How do you define a “van”? Is a station wagon a ‘van’?
      
      What about people that tour New Zealand in carsd and SUVs and ‘freedom camp’ in tents and do their business in the open places?
      
      What about the thousands of law abiding folk who currently tour New Zealand and stay at camp grounds and holiday parks?
      
      How do you stop overseas tourists purchasing a cheap van (without a toilet) that they can sell before they leave New Zealand?
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:44am
    - hmmokrightitis
      
      No, its utter twaddle. Tell me how you’ll craft let alone enforce a law like that?
      
      Whom does it apply too? Foreign nationals only? Cool, Ill call my mate in NZ he can book me one. Everyone? Cool, my mate has a van, Ill use his.
      
      Whats a van? Is it a station wagon? A ute? Cool, Ill hire a car instead.
      
      Just. Fucking. Dumb.
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:47am
      - Colville
        
        Its anything you sleep in that has a “self contained” sticker on it.
        Self contained wont mean a bucket anymore but a vehicle that has a tank to store the shit.
        
        and as for enforement..that is the easy bit. Try parking somewhere and you will have a Council parking Na*i with a ticketbook writing you p in a heartbeat..
        
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        November 18, 2020 4:43pm
    - C J Southern
      
      In a country with hundreds of thousands of cows and millions of sheep that all poop on the ground several times a day – and in the same country that’s currently in more financial doo doo than the combined depth of those said poops over the past one hundred years and is desperate for every last tourist dollar – one would have to have rocks for brains to ban freedom campers (that research shows spend more than regular tourists) on the basis that some of them drop a few biodegradable poops where they shouldn’t.
      
      It’s pure, unadulterated insanity
      
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      November 18, 2020 5:26pm
  - Grizz
    
    This is not going to work!
    People will still hire cars, buy clunkers cheaply, sleep in tents or cars. What about people shitting in the bush while tramping?
    
    This is typical of governments, a couple of Frenchmen shit in a gutter and they think the problem is the vans they drive!
    
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    November 18, 2020 11:02am
    - sooty
      
      Every vehicle needs a shitter in it!
      
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      November 18, 2020 12:51pm
  - DeepBlue
    
    Jucy creditors saw the poo hitting the pavement on that one.
    
    Used cargo van, green paint or with scribble, 200,000 km, coming to an auction house near you soon. Plumbing excluded.
    
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    November 18, 2020 1:22pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  You have a problem? Cindy has a mandate! And lots of political capital to spend. And a brand new ‘support base’ – some who want her to spend; some who don’t…
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:03am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    She doesn’t have general mandate, just a voter base. She will come a cropper.
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:42am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      I feel there is the potential for things to get ‘interesting’.
      
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      November 18, 2020 10:48am
      - Colville
        
        Oh yes…in a couple of years time it will be a very brave person who will admit that they voted for her!
        
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        November 18, 2020 11:23am
  - Jimbob
    
    All the opposition needs to do is sit back for a couple of years and keep their mouth shut. Labour will self destruct by themselves with their arrogance.
    
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    November 18, 2020 11:13am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    She has a mandate to do nothing. They campaigned on doing nothing therefore, doing anything is against her mandate.
    
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    November 18, 2020 11:16am
Maggy Wassilieff

Police don’t like being shot at each month.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/430850/police-association-pushes-for-firearms-register-to-be-put-in-place

What is our Government doing about the matter?

Sweet Fanny Adams….

Legislation passed in June paves the way for a gun register, but Police Minister Poto Williams said while work was under way on “firearms licensing and administration”, there was no fixed date for any decision, let alone implementation.
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November 18, 2020 8:10am
- igm
  
  But Labour have firearms legislation . . . like them, just crap!
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:13am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yes, Maggy. But gun register do 6/10s of nothing about solving the problems of guns in the hands of criminals too!
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:13am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I sort of suspected that might be the case, but here’s what the Police Association President said:
    
    “If we track what’s happened overseas when gun registers came into place, the number of firearms being stolen dropped dramatically.
    
    It would be good if he had identified countries where a Gun register works.
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:05am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Pity RNZ didn’t delve a bit deeper…
      
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/395003/firearms-register-a-pointless-exercise-former-police-officer
      
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      November 18, 2020 9:09am
      - sooty
        
        Will plod raid the gangs to onfisczte the guns?
        Nah, not brave enough!
        
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        November 18, 2020 9:11am
      - Brian Marshall
        
        You answered your own question their Maggy. There is another spanner in the control freaks plans that never gets mentioned. It’s not actually that difficult to build or craft your own firearms if you have a little amount of metal working knowledge. The famed Australian sub
        Machine gun from WWII (The Owen) was built and designed by a young man in his fathers workshop.
        
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        November 18, 2020 10:46am
    - mark15
      
      That’ll be all the countries with zero shootings.
      Antarctica.
      
      10 1
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      November 18, 2020 9:22am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Maggy, I heard Cahill on RNZ too. He is misusing statistics to support his case. Registers don’t work.
      
      Canada has squandered C$billions on their register, the project is still not complete and the delivered product is not meeting requirements.
      
      NZ had a gun register, but it was scrapped by the Muldoon govt in favour of licensing gun users/owners because it was found gun registers dont work.
      
      I can just see gangs register their firearms, not!
      
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      November 18, 2020 9:53am
    - Ehlana
      
      I can’t see how. Anyone willing to break into a house and steal a gun, will simply erase whatever identifying marks are on it. Registering the gun owners makes more sense.
      No doubt the insurance companies will take care of ensuring owners have a register of their guns themselves.
      
      11 2
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      November 18, 2020 10:24am
- G152
  
  But they had an arms amnesty and the good guys lined up to turn their weapons in.
  How, possibly, can it be that the police are being shot at?????
  Could it be that Cindy magic has no effect on the gangs ???
  Or on the other ‘baddies’ out there ??????
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:15am
  - peterwn
    
    Jacinda is trying to help by telling Australia it should not be deporting Kiwi crims to NZ. Only trouble is that ScoMo is not listening.
    
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    November 18, 2020 8:55am
  - Harriet
    
    The NSW police union would agree with you. And their Raptor Squad.
    
    Victims of gang crime in NZ should try for a class action against the NZ government.
    
    I was going to add more but someone is knocking very loudly on my front and back doors. 😎
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:59am
- pdm
  
  but, but , but all of the guns have been handed in.
  
  Oh no – the government only took them off honest people – getting them off the bad buggers was too hard.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:16am
- Albert_Ross
  
  It’s already illegal to shoot at people. What will making it illegal to have an unregistered gun add to that?
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:28am
- chukar
  
  MW
  How many police have been shot at by “ legally registered gun owners”?
  Just asking?
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:41am
- Frank the tank
  
  Lol leave it to woke Coster to fix. He’ll get Wally on the phone to his bros and sort it all out.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:01am
- Sideoiler
  
  Legislation passed in June paves the way for a gun register, but Police Minister Poto Williams said while work was under way on “firearms licensing and administration”, there was no fixed date for any decision, let alone implementation
  
  A register is not going to make a blind bit of difference, criminals don’t register their firearms.
  Perhaps Cahill should be asking the police hierarchy when are you going to turn over a few gang pads.
  Why you would entrust the police with the administration of anything to do with firearms is a mystery, after all it was the police that gave Tarrant his licence.
  
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  November 18, 2020 12:54pm
Justitia

Tomorrow 19 November is United Nations World Toilet Day (I wanted desperately to get the jump on Mikey). This article from today’s Telegraph celebrates the public conveniences of Norway: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/galleries/norway-has-beautiful-public-loos-world/. New Zealand was slow off the mark here, we have many wonderful public toilets worthy of publicity and consistent with our 100 percent purex image (my personal favourites are those in Hunterville, always beautifully tended). Our High Commissioner in London must write to the Telegraph Editor to set the record straight. MFAT have dropped the ballcock here, yet again.
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November 18, 2020 8:13am
- sooty
  
  Tomorrow is Pike River anniversary and angry little has already taken a dump on us, to the tune of 50 million!
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:13am
- Catgurl13
  
  If only the UN stopped talking so much crap lol.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:13am
- C J Southern
  
  Gives “flushed with success” a whole new meaning.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:51am
KevO'Brien

The chickens are coming out into the open:
https://www.zerohedge.com/political/12-reasons-why-trumps-lawyers-are-absolutely-convinced-he-will-win-election
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November 18, 2020 8:15am
- C J Southern
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300161137/100-per-cent-dead-court-ruling-could-torpedo-some-lawsuits-challenging-trumps-loss
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:26am
  - JackRabbit
    
    You should invetigate moving to Venezuela. It would really suit you.
    
    22 7
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    November 18, 2020 8:32am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Not all Court or Attorneys are equal.
    Enjoy the popcorn while the game is on.
    
    13 9
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    November 18, 2020 8:38am
    - C J Southern
      
      But that’s the rub; there is no “game on”. Trump lost at the polls and is well on the way to not gaining a single vote in the courts (37 suits filed – 28 concluded without a single vote being awarded – remaining 9 suits get to be concluded, but no votes expected).
      
      The courts work on evidence – and there’s no evidence of widespread fraud because there was no widespread fraud. That’s the bottom line … despite the republicans desperate attempts to pervert the course of justice by attempting to create evidence.
      
      Meanwhile the fakenews & conspiracy sites are raking in the $$$ and continuing to disconnect the world from reality even more … with the blessing of a whole bunch of stupid people. And we wonder why the world is so fucked up; THIS CRAP is one of the reasons why it’s so fucked up.
      
      Anyway; let’s have your usual nonsensical non-sequiter response so I can down-vote it and let’s get on with our days – I for one have more important things to do.
      
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      November 18, 2020 9:00am
      - Positan
        
        One of the more “important” things you might get around to doing would be to spend a lot more time in pursuit of what are actual facts and what is going down right now in vote audits across the States, before airing your uninformed and unbalanced perspectives.
        
        I’m not going to spell out the bleeding obvious but to assist your enlightenment, here’s a tiny clue. Contrast the fact that Republicans made significant gains in Congress – but that the “counted vote” went against Trump …
        
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        November 18, 2020 9:42am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I suggest you learn about the complex USA judicial system which includes, State, Federal and the SCOTUS.
        Bigger Courts have littler Courts upon their backs to bite ’em, littler Courts have lesser Court and so on infinitem.
        
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        November 18, 2020 10:49am
      - C J Southern
        
        @Positan
        
        I generally try to avoid directly calling specific people idiots – but in your case I’m REALLY tempted to make an exception.
        
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        November 18, 2020 10:59am
      - C J Southern
        
        @KOB
        
        I Suggest that YOU learn more about how it works; they don’t get to appeal everything up tge ladder to SCOTUS just because they didn’t like the result.
        
        They’ve already been turned down several times.
        
        But hey – keep deluding yourself if it gives you a false sense of security.
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:05pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        “Meanwhile the fakenews & conspiracy sites are raking in the $$$ and continuing to disconnect the world from reality even more…”
        
        Its kind of difficult when mainstream sites that people should be able to trust, become the fake news and conspiracy sites.
        
        “If You Tube took down videos, the videos must have been ‘bad’ or ‘false’.
        If Facebook and Twitter are deleting accounts or blocking content it must be ‘bad’ content.”
        
        Let the public decide for themselves. It is not the job of commercial enterprises to censor things.
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:33pm
      - Flossie
        
        @Positan. What that tells me is that while people do like Republican governments, Trump himself has earned his very own personal backlash because of his behaviour and comments. Maybe if there had been a different GOP candidate there would still be a GOP president.
        
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        November 18, 2020 1:36pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @JackRabbit Given the ample daily demonstration that many people can’t differentiate between fantasy and reality allowing people to be exposed to even more conspiracy crap is NOT in the best interests of this world.
        
        All I can say is thank goodness that they filter out what they do; I only wish they’d filter out a while lot more because that stuff is dangerous to the collective IQ of the world.
        
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        November 18, 2020 5:34pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @C J Southern
        
        You state you only post on factual evidence and do not base things on your opinions.
        
        Your statement:
        
        “Given the ample daily demonstration that many people can’t differentiate between fantasy and reality allowing people to be exposed to even more conspiracy crap is NOT in the best interests of this world.”
        
        This seems very opinionated to me, and no factual evidence to back it.
        
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        November 18, 2020 5:42pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Maybe the good people of the USA will get justice where the good people of Venezuela did not. Rigged elections are the actions of traitors and should be tried as such.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:31am
  - C J Southern
    
    Question for you. If two people fill in postal ballots – and post them at the same time – but due to variences in the USPS system only the first one gets delivered before the deadline and gets counted – and the 2nd one arrives after the deadline and doesn’t get counted.
    
    Would you agree that the 2nd voter was being disadvantaged if their vote was counted?
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:24am
    - Harriet
      
      People buy cars, trucks and boats in states with low taxes and use fake addresses, they are then sent forms for the primaries and it is those ‘no returns’ that are then the basis of fraud for later on.
      
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      November 18, 2020 9:42am
      - C J Southern
        
        Well that’s lovely and all that – but what I’m really interested in is an answer to my question from “JackRabbit”.
        
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        November 18, 2020 11:00am
    - JackRabbit
      
      No I do not agree:
      
      (1) The second voter was not disadvantaged. He was just plain lazy leaving it to the last minute to post his ballot. The same argument exists for buyers of Lotto tickets, who arrive at the store after 7pm or login in after 7.30pm to buy a ticket. Or for that matter login at 7.25 along with 8,000 other last minute punters on the day the PowerBall jackpot is at $40M.
      
      If you want to get a good seat at a concert, you do not arrive an hour late and then claim you were disadvantaged. If you want a good seat, you prepare in advance, you arrive 2-3 hours early, get any extra food or drinks, and get your seat and wait.
      
      (2) Anyone can claim they had the winning numbers AFTER the event. Cut off times are there for a reason.
      
      Only the lazy arrive after the cutoff time or so close to the cutoff time that their vote will not be accepted because of mail delays. Posted ballot receiving times, posted rates cheques receiving dates, lotto ticket purchase cut off times, airline check-in and boarding times, inter island ferry boarding times, bank closing times, etc, are not negotiable.
      
      (3) The cutoff time in posted ballots is not the time you send it, but the time it is received. It is up to the sender to ensure they send it early enough to be received before the cut-off time. And these rules apply equally to everyone, so you cannot claim any one person was disadvantaged.
      
      (4) Since many of the late ballots were solely for Biden, either its rigged, or Biden voters are so lazy and left it to the last minute, or were not going to vote at all because they didn’t care, but were told to vote even if it was after the event.
      
      If you don’t want well defined cut off times, or to live a fluid existence, go live in some remote Pacific Island, that have low standards, don’t own watches, and live according to “Island Time”.
      
      7 5
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      November 18, 2020 11:15am
      - C J Southern
        
        You don’t agree? Well guess what – that’s EXACTLY the position that Trump’s lawyers tried to argue – the very same position that you, I, and the judge called them out on.
        
        Are you starting to understand the lunacy of their suits now – why most are getting quickly tossed – and why 1000 lawyers are asserting that they’re abusing the process?
        
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        November 18, 2020 5:39pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @C J Southern
        
        That is NOT EXACTLY what Trumps lawyers are trying to argue. You need to do a bit of reading and confront the websites that you irrationally prematurely close in anger because “it’s all bullshit.”
        
        When you state “Trump’s lawyers” that is inclusive of all his lawyers and the range of arguments are not limited to late ballots.
        
        (1) Late / Early ballots is NOT the same as illegal ballot stuffing.
        (2) Late / Early ballots is NOT the same as rigged software flipping ballots from Trump to Biden.
        
        There is a vast difference between arguments of ballot receiving times, and deliberate interference in the same and actually rigging an election. The former is civil, the latter is criminal.
        
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        November 18, 2020 5:47pm
      - Batman
        
        I would also recommend this thread from a court lawyer, reporting Rudy’s appearance in Pa. Court today. It was… Something
        
        https://twitter.com/RMFifthCircuit/status/1328767248903901185?s=19
        
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        November 18, 2020 8:22pm
    - Billy Collins
      
      CJ, the USPS declares a deadline for mail-in votes to guarantee that they are delivered by election day.
      
      How about this: if the 2nd vote never even arrives because of a failure of the USPS system, then what? We wait forever for it to arrive?
      
      Or do we admit that the USPS system is flawed,
      numerous countries outright ban mail-in voting for the very reason that there are all sorts of problems with postal services, and if you choose to use it to make your vote, that is on you?
      
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      November 18, 2020 1:56pm
      - C J Southern
        
        You’re missing the point. Trump’s lawyers tried to argue that the 2nd voter was being disadvantaged under the constitution if his vote WAS counted.
        
        That’s the level of stupidity that they’re trying; one the judge wasn’t having a bar of.
        
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        November 18, 2020 5:44pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Oh – and you might like to also keep in mind that – knowing how there were going to be many more mailed in votes due to COVID, Trump denied USPS the funding they needed to do the job …
        
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        November 18, 2020 5:46pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        I totally agree.
        
        “CJ, the USPS declares a deadline for mail-in votes to guarantee that they are delivered by election day.”
        
        The key word here is “deadline for mail-in votes”. There is a deadline that voters have to comply with if they want their vote to be received by the election authorities.
        
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        November 18, 2020 5:59pm
    - Positan
      
      CJ: In your comment a few items above, you were “tempted” “to call me an idiot.”
      
      However, surely the status of idiocy is far more exactly defined and underlined when someone, like yourself, apparently unable to make any rational rebuttal to the point debated, resorts instead to that very childish type of put-down – name calling?
      
      As I see it, for someone as inebriated with the exuberance of their own (mostly off target) verbosity, and as inflated with such unsustainable and facile fixations as to their unjustifiable opinion of Trump, you’ve failed, signally and dismally, to render any sort of adequate or rational response to any of the far more solid arguments of those who’ve sought to oppose your views.
      
      Really and truly, some signs of adult maturity would be welcomed.
      
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      November 18, 2020 5:58pm
- BeeJay
  
  Zerohedge?? Just another garbage conspiracy creating website, pro-Russian, owned by a Bulgarian! Keep looking, Kev, and you’ll find what you want! Still isn’t going to change the fact that Joe Biden will be the President on January 20, 2021!
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:33am
- Scott
  
  This morning Fox News covered the senate hearings on big tech with Dorsey and Zuckerberg being questioned about Twitter and Facebook decisions regarding the 2020 election.
  
  Dianne Feinstein appeared concerned that social media was not doing enough to counter Trump’s concerns that the election was stolen. She wanted more censorship by Twitter and Facebook!
  
  Conservative Mike Lee wanted less censorship, that social media was supposed to be neutral. But as he pointed out, mistakes in censoring conservatives only went one way. Conservatives were censored, those on the left were not.
  
  Trump thinks the election was stolen. Those tweets were earmarked by Twitter who commented implying they were not true. Sidney Powell, a serious lawyer says they are true and she is going to provide evidence –
  
  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/sidney-powell-drops-bomb-mark-levin-show-witness-creation-smartmatic-system-used-change-election-results-video/
  
  However the question remains, with millions of people getting their news from Facebook and Twitter should they be allowed to continue their practice of censoring those on the right while the left can say whatever they want?
  
  They interfered with the election. Stories about Hunter Biden were squelched. Those stories would have hurt Joe Biden. Twitter and Facebook squelched them. Twitter shut down the account of the New York Post for what they wrote about Hunter Biden! That is election interference.
  
  In my mind I wonder whether these companies have way too much monopoly power. Should they be broken up? We cannot be happy with liberal overlords controlling what the world is able to see and hear?
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:33am
  - C J Southern
    
    You lose all credibility the moment you reference TheGatewayPundit.
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:03am
    - dcrane
      
      You are ducking the question, which also does not enhance credibility.
      
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      November 18, 2020 9:09am
      - JackRabbit
        
        He/She/It prefers smearing the news site rather than debate the merits of the content. Shoot the messenger so the message does not get delivered, at all costs.
        
        Same tactics as used in the US elections. Lose votes for Trump, put in fake votes for Biden, flip Trump votes to Biden. The message that the country prefers Trump as president must not get delivered, at all costs.
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:02pm
    - RichardX
      
      What credibility did Scott have to start with? He is a young earth creationist. They view evidence differently.
      
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      November 18, 2020 9:17am
      - dcrane
        
        The last 3 paragraphs were right on.
        
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        November 18, 2020 10:32am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Shoot the messenger why don’t you?
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:05pm
    - Ronin
      
      But he gains some back when you reply to him.
      
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      November 18, 2020 9:26am
  - C J Southern
    
    https://www.newsguardtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/The-Gateway-Pundit-NewsGuard-Nutrition-Label.pdf
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateway_Pundit
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:57am
    - JackRabbit
      
      More dis-information. Shoot or discredit the messenger. Never debate the facts.
      
      7 6
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      November 18, 2020 12:07pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Every time anyone tries to debate facts you deny that they’re facts.
        
        The only things that are facts in your eyes are the conspiracies that you read on conspiracy sites.
        
        At this point I think your delusion has progressed to the point where it’s just a waste of my time discussing it with you.
        
        What is going to happen is that Biden (for better or worse) will be inaugurated in 63 days – Trumps ridiculous attempts to pervert the election will continue to fail spectacularly – and you’ll keep on believing every conspiracy theory under the sun.
        
        Old saying “disease can be cured with medicine – ignorance can be dispelled with education – but you can’t fix stupid”
        
        So good luck “JackRabbit”; we’re done.
        
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        November 18, 2020 5:56pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @C J Southern
        
        For someone who only posts as “factual evidence” you are very opinionated and sarcastic. I have never stated that Trump will win, only that there is sufficient evidence that point to incidents of fraud in the voting process.
        
        The (inductive) scientific method, used in science criminal work, requires that irregularities be investigated.
        
        Simply trying to wipe the slate and say it’s over, when there is an ethical duty by all concerned to investigate, smacks of trying to sweep things under the carpet.
        
        There are an increasing amount of irregularities, and these need to be investigated.
        
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        November 19, 2020 8:13am
  - Cantabrian
    
    Ted Cruz got stuck into Dorsey! Long time since I’ve listened to someone trying so hard to cover his a.. Dorsey blindly refuses to acknowledge the damage his platform is doing.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxmtBU398KE
    
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    November 18, 2020 11:16am
Ruahine

We have to reverse the decision on the cannabis referendum because the people were badly misinformed by the media.
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November 18, 2020 8:15am
- Libertarians are right
  
  Because they pushed really hard for Yes and people still said No? I don’t understand your point?
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:36am
  - Ehlana
    
    The people got it wrong Libertians. Even though the media told them what the right answer was. The people often get it wrong (remember when they voted to reduce the number of MPs!).
    It must be so hard being the media and government when the people don’t do as they are told…
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:35am
  - JackRabbit
    
    No, they pushed hard on all the wrong reasons, most of which, if not all, were untrue.
    
    -The painkiller argument is untrue because there are alternatives, including natural ones.
    -The cleanup of gangs by legalising weed is pure horseshit. If they wanted to clean up the gangs they would have tackled the government hard on the taking of weapons off law abiding citizens but allow the gangs to keep theirs.
    
    To get it past the line they should have campaigned on the following, but could not:
    
    (1) What a person smokes or puts into their body is their own choice, not the government.
    
    This however runs 180° to the common narrative of the govts “right” to dose water with fluoride, and runs 180° to the common narrative of the govts “right” to insist on ALL vaccines without your consent.
    
    (2) Nanny state has too much control over the individual.
    
    They couldn’t campaign on that since green lefty types want more Nanny state intervention.
    
    And the elephant in the room:
    
    Green lefties want weed legalised but support the general Labour push to be smoke free by 2025. You can’t have it both ways. If we are to be smoke free, that means no cigarettes, no weed, and for that matter no vaping, since the medical side effects are similar to smoking cigs and smoking weed.
    
    But being smoke free is in sharp contravention to (1) above, the freedom to have choice over what goes into our bodies.
    
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    November 18, 2020 12:23pm
- hullkiwi
  
  Says who? Ross Bell, Chloe Swarbruck?
  
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  November 18, 2020 10:21am
Paulus

I am saddened to learn that some branch of Auckland Council has voted 5/4 to allow the Erebus Memorial concrete monstrosity to be built in the Parnell Rose Garden.
I expect that that decision will be legally challenged.
I do not suggest that some memorial should be created by the families of the survivors of this accident but why there>
Since its creation I have often spent time in these rose gardens the upkeep of which has been superb.
I heard one gentleman say that it was only a small part of the gardens but from the pictures it is a huge slab of concrete standing but like a sore thumb – and how many relatives will actually visit more than when it is opened by Ardern at a PR photoshoot.
From what I heard, said at the meeting from one who was there, it appears by some to be a snub to the “rich people” who live in Parnell and nothing more as they had no actual connection to the project.
I will support financially if necessary to the legal fund.
Take this Memorial, which I support, elsewhere – next to the War Memorial Museum, which has a fantastic view of the harbour, and as such more appropriate.
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November 18, 2020 8:16am
- Isobar
  
  This is exactly the sort of behavior I hope the scrapping of the RMA tackles, frivolous lawsuits by NIMBY’s that hold up, add costs and in many cases prevent projects.
  
  Meanwhile, everyones rates and taxes go up as the costs spiral and the lawyers laugh all the way to the bank.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:55am
- Catgurl13
  
  I was very disappointed to see David Seymour for this,when a majority of families connected to the victims do not want it. David said it won’t interfere with the landscape…….well David that isn’t the big issue. The families against it said they don’t want it there as there is no significance to that area for the memorial. Just more insanity by govt.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:11am
  - MCos
    
    I don’t particularly want a new extension to the Baptist Church in my area, but there it is.
    
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    November 18, 2020 11:44am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Hands up if you’re surprised the Lefty doesn’t understand the difference between public land and private property rights!
      
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      November 18, 2020 12:46pm
- Harriet
  
  The plane flew out of Christchurch.
  
  It’s like having a White Is memorial in Dunedin.
  
  Wokeness at it’s worst.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:46am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    The plane actually flew out of Auckland and refuelled in Christchurch.
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:55am
    - Paulus
      
      It had a New Zealand Domestic Flight registration, and was not an International one.
      
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      November 18, 2020 1:36pm
- alphabeatrium
  
  Why can’t we just crowd-fund these things anyway. What business is this for Auckland Council?
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:51am
  - MCos
    
    The memorial is being paid for by the Ministry for Culture and Heritage for obvious reasons.
    The Auckland CC is involved because it’s their park & permission is required.
    
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    November 18, 2020 11:57am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      More Cindimania?
      
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      November 18, 2020 1:29pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        The memorial is to be a life-size statue of Jacinda comforting the granddaughter of an Erebus victim.
        
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        November 18, 2020 1:43pm
    - Paulus
      
      You mean paid for by Taxpayers !
      
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      November 18, 2020 1:36pm
      - Isobar
        
        Not to worry, the Taxpayers will also shell out to defend for any Lawsuits you and the other NIMBY’s attempt.
        
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        November 18, 2020 3:45pm
- Fletch
  
  New Zealand has a habit of building “memorials” designed by, well, designers who want to get a reputation for being edgy and inventive rather than to design something beautiful. Just look at our dismal Olympic uniforms over the years and ugly Air NZ uniforms.
  
  The Erebus thing is a fugly bridge to nowhere.
  
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  November 18, 2020 12:12pm
Waipuk

Are the people doing the shooting registered gun owners? If not I don’t think they would be interested in registering their guns.
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November 18, 2020 8:17am
- Bob
  
  They will be soon.
  The princess with ‘bobbly head and facial grimaces’ will speak too, and reason with the unregistered gun owners. And it will come to their illegal weapons pass that they shall see the error of their ways, relent and repent their past sins of not registering their illegal weapons, and shall flock to the feet of the anointed one who will ‘forgive’ and accept theirs pleas for leniency for they new not what they were doing was wrong.
  Thus it shall be that the land will live in blessed harmony and gunless mayhem, and the peoples will cheer and pray that the princess is forever their leader.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:44am
Surely Knott

Where is the contest of ideas if we just spread the news from the same single source.

Newstalk ZB, you would have thought our most right wing independent news, is promoting an article which says, “US Nurse speaks out on dying Covid-19 patients still denying the virus.”

The article is from the NZ Herald and that article is a CNN interview with an American nurse who has a popular twitter account. When we already have the narrowest range of media viewpoint in the world why is Newstalk ZB repeating NZ Herald’s – CNN articles. If they are stuck for content, Why don’t they link to other different global news sources to present a wider viewpoint.

Media in NZ truly is the monty python sketch we have: spam bacon eggs and spam; eggs spam, spam and ham; or spam bacon eggs and spam. But I don’t want Spam.
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November 18, 2020 8:18am
- C J Southern
  
  Media in NZ (and around the world) are primarily entertainment organisations; and as such to achieve financial success they produce content that pleases their customers.
  
  Fairness, balance, accuracy, integrity (etc) have long since taken a back seat to financial self-interest.
  
  They tell people “what they want to hear” – not “what they need to know”.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:06am
  - dcrane
    
    Agreed….newspaper journalism worked better when more of its funding came from other forms of advertisement (e.g., classified ads) instead of the “news” content.
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:12am
I remember when

So there weren’t any women of meaningful influence this year?
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November 18, 2020 8:18am
- Paulus
  
  Thought Susi redhead was declared top women ?
  
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  November 18, 2020 1:38pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Some new MPs don’t want to swear an oath to the Monarch.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/430853/calls-for-parliamentary-oath-of-allegiance-to-recognise-te-tiriti-o-waitangi

“The role of the monarchy in the colonisation of our country is absolute and swearing to it while I’m fully intending to subvert it, I just wonder around the ethics of that,” Kerekere said.

Now, surely when these folks stood for election to the House of Representatives they were aware of the role of the Queen in our Parliament.
https://www.royal.uk/new-zealand

What about the ethics of standing for something you don’t believe in?
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November 18, 2020 8:19am
- RW Capitalist
  
  What about the ethics of standing for something you don’t believe in?
  and not making your feelings clear on or before election day
  Honesty?
  Integrity?
  Responsibility?
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:25am
  - SGA
    
    Despite how Maggy reports it, the article is actually much more about including reference to the Treaty of Waitangi as well as swearing an oath to the Monarch (feel free to read it).
    
    “What about the ethics of standing for something you don’t believe in?”
    
    If you don’t like the way your government/country works, then the appropriate/ethical way to try and change it is from within, isn’t it?
    
    I am betting that there are MPs (of various persuasions) who favour (or at least are not hostile to) the idea of NZ becoming a republic. As one ex-PM said “I have more than once spoken with Her Majesty about my view that New Zealand would at some point elect its own Head of State, we discussed the matter in a most sensible way and she was in no way surprised or alarmed and neither did she cut my head off.”
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:57am
- C J Southern
  
  I suspect that swearing oaths is not something that most take particularly seriously these days – and if they do it’s quickly forgotten shortly afterwards in favour of “saying whatever get’s me further ahead”.
  
  Just one of the reasons they have little credibility.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:36am
- Scott
  
  I’m fully intending to subvert it! Who votes for these people? Are they traitors to their country? Serious question?
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:36am
  - sooty
    
    Nah, they just want the free money and perks!
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:16am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    It’s not “traitorous” to believe that monarchy, with the actual monarch on the other side of the world, isn’t necessarily the best constitutional arrangement for a modern Australasian democracy.
    
    It may be misguided, ill-informed or inadequately thought through. But that doesn’t make it traitorous.
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:32am
    - Jack5
      
      While New Zealand continues to be a constitutional monarchy, refusing to acknowledge the Crown is refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of the State. In most places an elected politician would be held to account for that.
      
      New Zealand’s a pseudo-monarchy. The monarch has no power, but provides an extremely cheap, extremely light hand, giving us a pseudo republic without the weight of a presidential layer of the State.
      
      We get the stability that constitutional monarchies provide, without being lackeys.
      
      If some new-New Zealand types don’t like that, let them fuck off to one of their Third World Marxist dream countries.
      
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      November 18, 2020 10:38am
      - Albert_Ross
        
        Seriously, if you think monarchy isn’t the best constitutional arrangement for New Zealand – then the only legitimate option is to leave New Zealand?
        
        You don’t get to, for example, state your case, put it to voters, participate in public debate or any of the other ways in which ideas are normally examined and tested, you just have to leave?
        
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        November 18, 2020 11:09am
      - Jack5
        
        Albert, we’re not talking about opinions, but about elected politicians taking an oath of allegiance to the country.
        
        Of course, everyone in a democratic country can have an opinion. They are welcome to put the opinion up for debate, but that doesn’t mean that if they stand for and gain office they should be allowed to refuse the official pledge of office.
        
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        November 18, 2020 1:36pm
  - SGA
    
    Are they traitors to their country? Serious question?
    
    I think our quaint constitutional monarchy muddles along quite nicely. I wouldn’t be in any hurry to change it unless I had a very good idea what would replace it. That said, I’m in no hurry to brand people as “traitors” for questioning or challenging (within broad non-violent limits) the status quo.
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:33am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    In the case of Elizabeth Kerekere, 1535 people from Ikaroa- Rawhiti voted for her (i.e. about 8% of the electorate).
    
    https://www.teaomaori.news/election/electorates/ikaroa-rawhiti
    
    She got into Parliament on the strength of the Green Party vote.
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:03am
    - Yabster
      
      more evidence MMP sucks…..
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:34am
- SGA
  
  Now, surely when these folks stood for election to the House of Representatives they were aware of the role of the Queen in our Parliament.
  What about the ethics of standing for something you don’t believe in?
  
  Putting aside the specific issue of the Queen, oaths, colonisation for a second.
  
  If you have issues with the “structure” of your present government, then you have two obvious options – you try to change it from within (which necessitates becoming involved in the current political process) or you foment a revolution of some kind.
  Personally, I’m happier that people choose the former option. Fair enough?
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:08am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Sure SGA…
    she can try to change the system from within, but that’s not something she campaigned on.
    
    She lives in my suburb and I followed her campaign closely …
    
    http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/local-news/20200624/kerekere-brings-commitment-and-network-to-election-racer/
    
    I ‘m not fussed if NZ Parliament ditches its relationship with the Monarchy…but then we’d have to consign the TOW to some dusty archive, and I’m pretty sure that’s not what the Greens want.
    
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    November 18, 2020 12:02pm
    - SGA
      
      she can try to change the system from within, but that’s not something she campaigned on.
      
      For heavens sake, you don’t like the Greens (I’m no fan either) and you don’t like her. I get it. But she’s not contradicting anything she campaigned on, and I’m not surprised that “what changes you might like to make to the oath in Parliament wasn’t a top priority”. Anyone with half a brain wouldn’t be surprised that she thinks that the treaty should hold a higher place in NZ matters. You’ve hardly been deceived.
      
      I ‘m not fussed if NZ Parliament ditches its relationship with the Monarchy…but then we’d have to consign the TOW to some dusty archive, and I’m pretty sure that’s not what the Greens want.
      
      huh – the thrust of your original article is about including the TOW with the oath to the Queen. Your “Some new MPs don’t want to swear an oath to the Monarch” is a very selective take.
      
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      November 18, 2020 2:32pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @SGA. re being a selective take
        I gave one link to the story..
        It has been running for a few days.
        
        I didn’t want to fill up the blog with lots of links… but here is Rawiri Waititi stating(in te Reo):
        
        “I don’t want to make an oath to the Queen of England” (Translation provided at 4:29)
        https://www.teaomaori.news/rawiri-waititi-will-swear-oath-on-ringatu-faith
        
        and you don’t like her. I get it.
        Nonsense. You are making things up.
        
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        November 18, 2020 5:53pm
  - graham
    
    There is a third option SGA.
    
    Move to another country, where you’ll be happy.
    
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    November 18, 2020 12:04pm
    - SGA
      
      lol – Kiwiblog is full of people who despair of NZ’s direction and future. It would be so easy to give each and every complainer a glib “move to another country”. But it’s a shallow reposte – they are entailed to both want to see change and still like the place enough to want to live here.
      
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      November 18, 2020 1:47pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Yeah but we live in a postmodern world now, don’t we? Everything’s just relative inn’it?
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:35am
- alphabeatrium
  
  If the Treaty is a “partnership” between iwi and the Crown, then surely Parliament is one facet of the Crown in that relationship, and it’s only proper that MPs make an oath to the Crown and _that is the Treaty being recognised_.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:55am
  - Yabster
    
    that’s a big if- maori ceded sovereignty end of story- think the greatest power of the day was interested sharing laws with some minor pacific tribe? of course not- just the complete bs maori and white leftist have made up including Geoffry Palmer and the money pit called the Waitangi Tribunal.
    
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    November 18, 2020 11:42am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Seems that that uncomfortable view has escaped the attention of those objecting to the present Oath.
    
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    November 18, 2020 12:05pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Parliament is not, technically, ‘one facet of the Crown’. The Crown is the monarch, and ministers acting in her name. Parliament is an elected assembly summoned to advise the monarch.
    
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    November 18, 2020 12:57pm
- Ruahine
  
  Those complaining about the oath have no trouble have no trouble with the ethics of taking taxpayers money.
  
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  November 18, 2020 11:13am
- KevO'Brien
  
  No oath, no job.
  Cabinet members must swear an oath of loyalty to HM the Queen.
  
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  November 18, 2020 1:36pm
C J Southern

US Election Reality Check

Suits filed: 37
Proceedings concluded: 28
States gained due to legal action: 0
Votes gained due to legal action: 0
Cases of election fraud proven: 0

Transition to Biden countdown: 63D 21H 36M

Status: The countdown is proceeding normally. All lights are green. All systems are go
#ReportEnds
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November 18, 2020 8:24am
- Inandout
  
  CJ, to paraphrase, the road to socialism is paved with good intentions.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:28am
  - C J Southern
    
    I’m just reporting objective reality (not opinion) – but apparantly that’s too much for 15 people to handle.
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:10am
    - dcrane
      
      Better to report all relevant reality
      
      https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2600-uncounted-ballots-found-recount-efforts-georgia
      
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      November 18, 2020 9:14am
      - C J Southern
        
        I did. The assertion is that there is widespread voter fraud occuring – and the reality is that the courts have not confirmed ANY of it.
        
        The fact that some previously uncounted votes were picked up as part of Georgia’s checks and balances serves only to prove that those checks and balances worked; it does not document or confirm fraud in any way, shape, or form.
        
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        November 18, 2020 11:07am
      - Ed Snack
        
        CJS, a simple recount will of course recount all the potential illegal votes. To restore faith in the voting systems, a proper audit of votes is required.
        
        And just as a note, there’s a group of 19 “bellwether” counties that have been tracked in the US. These have gone as a group with every elected POTUS since 1980. They all went for Reagan, Reagan again, the GWB, then Clinton x 2, GHWB x 2, Obama x 2, and in 2016 with Trump. This year, 18 out of 19 went to Trump with an average margin of 16%, and one went to Biden.
        
        That sort of change is an immediate red flag that demands checking. Why is 2020 so utterly different in pattern, how to Biden out poll Clinton by up to 50% in key counties, and out-poll Obama by 20% in others, yet across a random selection of counties he underperformed Obama by a significant margin. What is so special about those selected (and almost all in Democrat run areas) that the Democrat vote for POTUS (only, the House and other votes did NOT track abnormally to anything like the same extent) Biden/Harris gained so many vote ?
        
        And another “minor” point: for a number of elections the rejection rate of postal ballots has been fairly consistent at around 3-4.0%. This year it is 0.3%.
        
        If you oppose a proper audit of the vote, you are supporting election fraud. If there is no election tampering, then a proper audit will find that, and confidence can be restored. To simply claim that voter fraud does not happen and to oppose actually checking for proof of that is to be complicit for fraud.
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:14pm
      - dcrane
        
        While we’re at it, here’s another one from GA:
        
        https://www.wsbtv.com/news/politics/another-georgia-county-has-uncovered-2700-missing-votes-secretary-states-office-says/5W734FA755CK3NCR4P7A27DXVM/
        
        (mod – I hit report on the post below by accident, apologies)
        
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        November 18, 2020 1:05pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Ed Snack.
        
        So true. A recount only counts the votes, not as to whether the votes are in fact legitimate.
        
        The essence of fraud is an intent to deceive. i.e. to make things appear OK when they are not OK.
        
        One of the most common fraud tricks in the book, is to take something genuine and replace it with something not genuine, so that the discovery of the non genuine article is discovered long after the con has left town. Or if the article has a short life, as in voter ballots, it may never be discovered.
        
        Simply doing a “head count” never usually finds the fraud.
        
        Jewellery heists, bank fraud, investment fraud, and so on, only come to light when the “jewels” are valued for say insurance, only to find out they are not the original item; or a bank employee falls sick and things no longer balance because he/she is not here to “shuffle” money around; or when investors want to get their money back after hearing a bad rumour, and find there is no money left.
        
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        November 18, 2020 1:19pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @C J Southern
        
        “The assertion is that there is widespread voter fraud occuring – and the reality is that the courts have not confirmed ANY of it.”
        
        The courts were not looking for fraud in content, only fraud in counting.
        
        Two very different things.
        
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        November 18, 2020 1:22pm
    - Flossie
      
      I don’t understand why so many people downtick things that are facts…maybe not facts even the poster wants to be true. But facts are facts and no amount of downticking/wishful thinking is going to change it.
      
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      November 18, 2020 10:10am
      - C J Southern
        
        Yep. You got it.
        
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        November 18, 2020 11:03am
      - JackRabbit
        
        There are facts, true facts, untrue facts, published facts, and unpublished facts.
        
        When something underhand is happening there is no guarantee that the published facts are the true facts, or that the true facts are even published.
        
        If everything worked according to true facts that were published then we would have no wars, no struggles, no conflicts and several hundred million people would not have been killed at the hands of their own governments in the last 100 years.
        
        Invisible subterfuge, clandestine operations, and evil personified, have as much to do with how this world is run, as does visible democracy and civility.
        
        If the world is as benign as the picture you paint, and the media as truthful as you paint, there would be no wars, no conflict, Hitler would have opened a cafe, instead of becoming a monster, as with all the dozens of tyrants and schemers that have held the power and waged war on their citizens.
        
        You may dispute that, but the souls of several hundred million would disagree with you.
        
        There is nothing about this USA election that was clean.
        
        Report: Anti-Trump Dominion Voting Systems Security Chief Eric Coomer Was Participating in Antifa Calls, Posted Antifa Manifesto Letter to Trump Online
        
        “Oltmann explained that “Eric” was telling the Antifa members they needed to “keep up the pressure.” When one of the caller’s asked, “Who’s Eric?” someone answered, “Eric, he’s the Dominion guy.” Oltmann said that as the conversation continued, someone asked, “What are we gonna do if F*cking Trump wins?” Oltmann paraphrased how Eric (the Dominion guy) responded, “Don’t worry about the election, Trump’s not gonna win. I made f*cking sure of that!”
        
        https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/report-anti-trump-dominion-voting-systems-security-chief-participating-antifa-calls-posted-antifa-manifesto-letter-trump-online/
        
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        November 18, 2020 11:56am
      - Ed Snack
        
        The courts have not ruled anything about voter fraud at all. The cases have centred around access to counting and the eligibility of late changes to election laws by both local courts and elected officials. Nothing at all on the issue of actual checking that votes are legitimate.
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:15pm
      - Fletch
        
        It will be interesting to see if those stats change over time. Especially considering Sidney Powell’s case. If Biden wins, then the U.S truly has surrendered to tyranny and fraud. Third world election practices adopted by the liberals in America.
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:16pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        A kinder interpretation of Eric Coomer’s words (“Trump’s not going to win, I made fucking sure of that”) could be that he felt his voting machines would prevent any interference by Republicans in what he was sure would be an honest landslide for Biden. Anyway, I am sure that is what partisans of the left will claim.
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:49pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Maybe people wouldn’t downtick you so much on this topic if your 30-40 posts whenever it is raised didn’t make you appear to be an obnoxious blowhard. In my estimation, I think they make you look desperate and not a little insecure, as the follow-up “why are you downticking me?” posts attest. We get it: you think all was above board and you should know because you are omniscient.
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:39am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Senior lawyers have yet to act and Superior Courts to rule.
      
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      November 18, 2020 1:41pm
  - Albert_Ross
    
    It’s really troubling how many people on here seem to think that stating a fact must mean that you are happy with that fact, and similarly that if you don’t like a fact it must therefore not be true.
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:34am
    - C J Southern
      
      Yep. I happen to think Trump is a devisive pig – I have absolutely no idea if Biden will prove to be better or worse overall – I can’t stand Labour – but I make my posts based on credible evidence not opinion.
      
      And that evidence to date documents that there was no more “widespread election fraud” in the US elections than there was fraud in the NZ elections that got Labour reelected. I don’t like our result one little bit – but I’m not stupid enough to go around asserting that it was a fraudulant election.
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:12am
      - Nickc2
        
        I don’t think you are comparing apples with apples. To compare US elections with NZ’s for the purpose of making a point is spurious. To also state NZ’s elections were ‘fraud-free’ is not entirely correct. IMO, Labour didn’t win the election, the MSM won the election for Labour. In support of my opinion, I remind you of the $50m+ paid to the MSM by the Labour Government.
        
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        November 18, 2020 11:20am
      - Inandout
        
        CJ, Biden actually said ‘divisive’, as did CNN, MSNBC, NYTimes, BBC, etc…..
        
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        November 18, 2020 11:28am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Look at some evidence then. There is enough statistical evidence to very strongly suggest that the results of this election are seriously skewed. Plus eye witness sworn statements of vote manufacturing and improper counting.
        
        Of course if people insist that these issues cannot be considered, then no evidence can ever be uncovered. If you won’t look, you won’t find – unless those doing the illegal acts are particularly stupid, and that is not alleged.
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:18pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        The NZ election was a bundle of very dirty tricks. Ardern & Co may yet well regret they got the Office they desired. They have no vital economic sense.
        
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        November 18, 2020 1:44pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @ Ed Snack
        
        “There is enough statistical evidence to very strongly suggest that the results of this election are seriously skewed.”
        
        An inductive analyst / investigator knows never to ignore statistical evidence . He puts bias aside and investigates. An inductive analyst / investigator also understands the human condition and that someone somewhere will be always be trying to rort the system or rig the outcome.
        
        Often what stops people from investigating or accepting something is the belief that no-one would try and pull off such an outrageous stunt, or con people to the extent suggested. That is why fraudsters are often referred to as confidence tricksters.
        
        An inductive analyst / investigator also knows that is some pieces of the puzzle do NOT support the common narrative, it is worth investigation because often the pieces that don’t fit, are just the tip of the iceberg. One piece of evidence is often enough to show that all the pieces do not fit.
        
        C J Southern in his/her/it’s opinion is that we should ignore or look away from the mounting evidence of pieces that do not fit.
        
        It would not be in Sidney Powell’s nature to go on a ‘wild goose’ chase.
        
        Even if you ignore the evidence that is mounting and reaching the public, and ignored the human condition that allows fraud to occur, and had to decide if there was fraud based on the statements of Sidney Powell and C J Southern; you would have to back Sidney Powell, who has a pattern of being 10,000 more credible.
        
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        November 18, 2020 1:45pm
      - Batman
        
        Sidney Powell is a kook who got Michael Flynn convicted.
        
        She’s spreading conspiracy and disinformation in order to get one last payday before the bandwagon collapses.
        
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        November 18, 2020 2:35pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Statement 1: “…I happen to think Trump is a devisive pig…”
        
        Statement 2: “…I make my posts based on credible evidence not opinion…”
        
        Observation: Statement 2 claims posts based on evidence not opinion. Statement 1 is an opinion, and therefore contradictory.
        
        Nothing C J Southern says can be taken as fact because he/she contradicts him/herself. Is Statement 1 truly reflective of C J Southern, with Statement 2 being false, or is Statement 2 truly reflective of C J Southern with with Statement 1 being false.
        
        I would therefore doubt the sincerity of statements such as “I can’t stand Labour”, because most people who can’t stand Labour are patently aware how the NZ election was hi-jacked by the $50M; the daily Covid-19 briefings; the sheer lack of distancing by many Labour members, and Ardern herself in the media, during campaigning, and indeed in the daily Covid-19 briefings.
        
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        November 18, 2020 3:03pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @Nick The “point” I’m making (again and again and again and again and again) is that “people saying stuff doesn’t make it true”.
        
        If the losing side wants credibility then they need to present credible evidence to a court. To date – despite a plethora of claims, assertions, finger pointing, shouting, and general theatrics they have STILL not produced ANY credible evidence.
        
        And (surprise surprise) the courts noticed.
        
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        November 18, 2020 6:06pm
- NewInoffensiveName
  
  Trump wins
  Senate stays Republican
  House goes R once wave of resignations hits (Jan-Feb)
  
  Ripples spread globally.
  
  CCP in peril
  Iranian mullahs accept deal or are ousted
  Globalist governments wobble
  
  International conspirators involved in crimes against Trump revealed.
  
  I wonder how long it will be until the next NZ election.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:43am
  - C J Southern
    
    Got any links to betting sites that’ll take my money and give me better than even odds against that happening?
    
    6 14
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    November 18, 2020 9:12am
    - Harriet
      
      You could try NZ Treasury as they have all their money on socialism and need to lay-off some. 😎
      
      12 5
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      November 18, 2020 9:31am
    - NewInoffensiveName
      
      I’m your huckleberry
      
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      November 18, 2020 9:37am
    - Inandout
      
      CJ, wasn’t from tribal Dem news that is for sure.
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:29am
    - Nickc2
      
      JC Southern@6:06PM
      IMO, the only trusted courts in the US are those who deliver the results one wishes to hear. The rest are biased and corrupt. Who decides what to believe are those convicted by the MSM as in NZ.
      
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      November 18, 2020 8:00pm
- Isobar
  
  Never has the US electoral system been placed under such scrutiny.
  
  I think it has surprised all of us just how well it has performed thus far, given its apparent issues.
  
  Biden is really on track to a sweeping victory and Trump on track for a wrecked legacy.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:50am
  - NewInoffensiveName
    
    You must watch a lot of cnn
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:57am
    - Isobar
      
      Cannot stand it actually!
      
      1 3
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      November 18, 2020 3:47pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Not really, he has narrow (and disputed) margins in a few key swing states. The Democrats lost almost all their majority in the house, failed to pick up any state level offices of note, and did not swing the Senate though the GA runoffs might enable that if they take both seats.
    
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    November 18, 2020 12:20pm
    - Isobar
      
      72k lead in Pennsylvania is not Narrow, nor disputed as today’s court case proves.
      
      Just because you say it is disproven, doesn’t make it so i’m afraid.
      
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      November 18, 2020 3:49pm
I remember when

“England scored a ‘dominant’ win over Georgia to leapfrog All Blacks.
Without being rude should beating Georgia at rugby result in a change to world rankings.
Do England deserve to higher than the All Blacks at present – yes probably, but not because they beat Georgia.
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November 18, 2020 8:24am
- Frank the tank
  
  To be fair Georgia would give the WokeBlacks a fair shake right now.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:59am
- Southtop2
  
  Georgia would have beaten us on Saturday night
  
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  November 18, 2020 10:21am
- mikenmildagain
  
  All the ranking changes means is that England has had a relatively better recent record than New Zealand. For example, England beat NZ the last time they met.
  I’m not sure how the rankings are constructed, though. South Africa is ranked 1st, but hasn’t played since winning the RWC over a year ago.
  
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  November 18, 2020 1:03pm
Maggie Pie

And now I see where China has placed a BAN on people walking their dogs. Anyone caught doing it 3 times will be executed!!

https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1328768259747950595
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November 18, 2020 8:27am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, I am amazed a live pet dog actually exists in China given the absolute cruelty I have seen on video of them being skinned alive.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:31am
- C J Southern
  
  Not quite – it’s the pet that gets executed – not the owner.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:38am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Well maybe so – but does that make it any better?
    
    SHEESH!!
    
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    November 18, 2020 8:46am
    - C J Southern
      
      Maggie – with all due respect – I think there’s a HUGE difference between stating that anyone exercising a dog in China will be executed if they’re caught doing it 3 times vs the reality that it’s a policy of one tiny province in China that hasn’t been implimented yet – is now under review – and they’re talking about executing the animal – not the owner.
      
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      November 18, 2020 9:17am
    - hullkiwi
      
      Maggie, after an outcry by local pet owners, the city’s bureaucrats have been forced to have a rethink. RNZ
      
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      November 18, 2020 10:39am
  - tf78
    
    CJ are they executed and then eaten per chance?!
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:15am
    - C J Southern
      
      No idea – but I did find this:
      
      https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-china-reclassifies-dogs-pets-not-livestock/
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:14am
- C J Southern
  
  Not that The Sun doesn’t have a venerable reputation for balance and truth #RollsEyes, but here’s a”slightly different” take on it:
  
  https://nypost.com/2020/11/17/chinese-province-would-kill-pets-if-owners-violate-walking-ban/
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:44am
- Ruahine
  
  I think it is an initiative by the Clean China Footpath Foundation.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:45am
  - Harriet
    
    And food franchises operating in tourist areas.
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:10am
- JackRabbit
  
  (a) They are re-considering the ban.
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/17/chinese-county-reconsiders-threat-ban-dog-walking-backlash
  
  (b) One of the concerns was owners allowing dogs to crap anywhere and everywhere. So its not a direct ban aimed at curtailing freedoms, its the consequence of a mis-aligned response to dealing with the problem.
  
  (c) They would be better fining the owners for failing to pick up said excrement.
  
  (d) They should encourage said owners to re-use their supermarket bags to pick up said excrement.
  
  But wait, they are following in High Commander Ardern’s footsteps and banning supermarket bags.
  
  https://www.pri.org/stories/2020-03-19/china-announces-new-ban-single-use-plastics
  
  Perhaps Xi Jinping and Cindy could go dog walking for a couple of weeks, and reconsider what a ban on double use “single use” bags really means.
  
  I believe Putts Law has application beyond the IT sector it was observed in, and applies equally to politics and government departments:
  
  Putts Law:
  “Technology is dominated by two types of people, those who understand what they do not manage and those who manage what they do not understand.”
  
  Putt’s Corollary: “Every technical hierarchy, in time, develops a competence inversion.” with incompetence being “flushed out of the lower levels” of a technocratic hierarchy, ensuring that technically competent people remain directly in charge of the actual technology while those without technical competence move into management.”
  
  A week or two of picking up said dog excrement in hands or using new bags you paid money for while banning multi-use supermarket bags that are ideal for picking up doggy do, will sway even the most hardened of dog haters.
  
  Options for Xi Jinping and Cindy:
  (1) Pick up dog turds in new plastic bags.
  (2) Pick up dog turds in paper bag.
  (3) Pick up dog turds in hands and put in pocket.
  (4) Pick up dog turds in recycled supermarket bags.
  
  Observations on options:
  (1) You’ve done nothing to solve the plastics problem.
  (2) Anything strong enough to stop turds falling through is not flexible enough to pick up soft squishy ones. Anything flexible enough to pick up squishy ones will saturate paper and fall through or dirty your clothes.
  (3) Yeah right.
  (4) Perfect solution. A win win.
  
  And if you don’t have a dog, the supermarket bag becomes a bin liner.
  
  Clearly neither Xi Jinping or Cindy have a dog or unpack their own groceries.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:59am
I remember when

I want to be a Member of Parliament to ‘make a difference.’
Let’s start by changing the oath.
No Queen. No God.
How about Kupe.
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November 18, 2020 8:28am
- Harriet
  
  It’s ‘coup’ in English. 😎
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:53am
- MCos
  
  For a start allegiance is not sworn to QEII or Charles or whoever. It’s the monarchy, which one of those people happen to represent.
  
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  November 18, 2020 10:38am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I believe the Oath of Loyalty required of members of HM Elizabeth Executive council is a personal one. That is for all our Cabinet members.
    
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    November 18, 2020 1:49pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The oath is as follows:
    “I, Jacinda Kate Laurell Ardern, solemnly, sincerely, and truly declare and affirm, that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, her heirs and successors, according to law.”
    I guess that catch here is that anyone could advocate for establishment of a republic, which could be done ‘according to law’…
    
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    November 18, 2020 2:15pm
Greg Ettridge

Seems perfectly fair, you cannot have people just walking dogs willy nilly in a socialist state.
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November 18, 2020 8:38am
Greg Ettridge

Maybe the Queensland government could adopt this for people crossing the border, $66,000 fine seems to be very light to me.
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November 18, 2020 8:39am
- Harriet
  
  You aren’t allowed to feed dingoes on Fraser Island in QLD, they have signs posted everywhere along with the fine.
  One women did feed them and was fined by the local ranger.
  She appealed in court but the judge threw it out.The fine remained for her to pay.
  
  $72,000.00!!!!
  
  I repeat – 72 thousand dollars!!!!
  
  True story, as a 10yld kid was mauled to death a couple of years beforehand at a campsite.
  Get caught with rabbits in QLD and I think the fine is similar – it’s fucken huge anyway.
  
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  November 18, 2020 8:50am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And there’s been quite a few non-fatal attacks on humans by dingoes on Fraser Island.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dingo_attack
    
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    November 18, 2020 12:10pm
I remember when

NZAP: New Zealand Animal Police
Another group that knows what animal feel and think.
Yes let’s all stop cruelty to animals. However, like freedom of speech it seems to have no reasoned stop point.
The trouble is that once up and running the members have to find cruelty or they will think they are not doing their job.
The line of reason becomes blurred.
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November 18, 2020 8:46am
DRHILL

Is it time for a Ministry of Men’s Affairs?
Someone who can advocate for mens issues like Health (Prostate Cancer), Wellness (Mental Health, Depression) and Workplace (farming accidents etc).
26 4
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November 18, 2020 8:48am
- WaynelSexton
  
  When did men become victims like whamen and Maori?
  
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  November 18, 2020 10:16am
  - MCos
    
    Ask Donald Trump.
    He’s been an eternal victim for year. Everyone’s having a go at him.
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:44am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Except it’s not paranoia, when they are out to get you.
      Spying on the Trump campaign….true
      Russia collusion ……………………….Fake
      FISA warrant falsification………….True
      Ukraine corruption……………………True of Biden not Trump
      Impeachment……………………………Zero crimes committed
      Courts playing politics to try and stop him achieving anything.
      etc etc
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:25am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Add, “Suckers and Losers” hoax; Fine People Hoax (and note that both were promoted by that lying sack of shit Obama on the election hustings), plus all the manufactured lies about Justice Kavanaugh. Plus the labelling of the Hunter Biden corruption emails as “Russian Disinformation” – that was straight out disinformation on its own – no sense of irony in the MSM.
        
        Having the media act as your PR surrogates is a powerful position, especially with the low info voters that the Democrats rely upon. When you add the bias of Google, Facebook, and Twitter, is does get difficult to get an honest message out.
        
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        November 18, 2020 12:25pm
      - Batman
        
        “there were very fine people, on both sides, on both sides.”
        
        “I need you to do us a favor, though”
        
        Yes, totally made up!
        
        Thank goodness the lying sack on undemocratic shit will be evicted on 20 January.
        
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        November 18, 2020 2:22pm
Littletramp

Chris Hipkins comments on Taiwan are causing some dismay? Nanaia Mahuta is not taking interviews (hiding in witless protection) while she is being schooled on our official position regards Taiwan.
The Turkeys (voters) are just realising they have voted in favour of Thanksgiving!
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November 18, 2020 8:50am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Nanaia should shoot up to Taiwan and have a wee chin-wag with the President.
  
  Being descended from Paiwan folk, Tsai Ing-wen probably won’t be fazed by a facial tattoo.
  http://sayam-tiptalk.blogspot.com/2016/03/chinese-ci-shen-and-paiwan-tattoos.html
  
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  November 18, 2020 2:27pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    “…..probably won’t be fazed by a facial tattoo.”
    But may be allergic to BS, stupidity and incompetence.
    
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    November 18, 2020 3:45pm
- yossarian
  
  The statement is that she is “learning her role”…wtf has she been doing for 24 years
  
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  November 18, 2020 7:02pm
Lance

James Shaw reaches peak stupidity in a statement this morning
He said that if Britain is allowed to dump it’s fossil fuel cars on the NZ market after they ban fossil fuels… “NZ is stuffed”
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November 18, 2020 8:50am
- RW Capitalist
  
  If the poms are giving them away (dumping)
  Mine’s…
  https://www.ford.co.uk/vans-and-pickups/ranger/ranger-double-cab
  
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  November 18, 2020 3:50pm
Maggie Pie

Random Impertinent Question…

Was founder of the Scout Movement, Robert Baden-Powell, gay?

Asking for a friend.
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November 18, 2020 8:51am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  Maggie: Only when he kissed me 🙂
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:03am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I don’t know..
  but I’m in the market for one of his books…
  
  https://www.amazon.com/Pig-Sticking-Hog-Hunting-Hardcover-Baden-Powell-Robert/dp/B002GUC7I0
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:17am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Hmmm – well the title sounds very gay.
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:22am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      “Squeal like a pig, boy!”
      
      LOL 😛
      
      9 5
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      November 18, 2020 9:53am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Read about PIg Sticking in India and the Kadir Cup
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:49am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Most probably a double adaptor.
  Was very dangerous to be gay in those days, the punishment was to be chemically castrated if caught.
  Guess if he died with his swingers in place, he was never caught.
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:18am
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partner was a Boy Scout. Still carries his Toggle Rope.
  He was shocked to read this morning that ‘Boy Scouts America’ is staring down the barrel of bankruptcy as it faces about 90,000 sex abuse claims!
  It promises to dwarf anything seen in the Catholic Church!!
  
  https://latimes.com/california/story/2020-10-22/boy-scouts-sexual-abuse-claims-bankruptcy
  
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  November 18, 2020 9:31am
  - alphabeatrium
    
    As a lay member of the Catholic Church I feel mildy exonerated for having claimed that the sexual abuse scandal in the Church (which was horrendous) is probably on a scale that suggests its less abusive than most comparable institutions. Sad fact of life that there are predators everywhere and we must teach children to be wary.
    
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    November 18, 2020 9:58am
    - lifesgood
      
      My sons were all in boy scouts and it was absolutely wonderful for them. They were led by fantastic men who taught them so much about resilience, bush craft, leadership, friendship, looking out for others etc, etc, etc. They have turned out well balanced, successful, caring individuals, as have their fellow scouts. These attributes are seldom taught in schools in these days of “it’s all about me” and “I’m a victim” I would be very sad indeed if all scout troops were smeared because of some rotten apples but, you know, there are always haters who will jump on it the way they vilify the kind, caring, generous churchmen who get tarred due to the rotten apples amongst them.
      
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      November 18, 2020 10:52am
    - Flossie
      
      I know only too well that most sexual abuse of children happens by someone they know and trust and sadly that can be very close family members. How do we teach our kids to be wary of uncles, even fathers, without making them into paranoid little people?
      
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      November 18, 2020 11:28am
- Ruahine
  
  Mrs Baden-Powell felt he was very gay and happy also. Sometimes. It has been reported.
  
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  November 18, 2020 11:21am
  - Jack5
    
    Tim Jeal, author of “The Boy-Man,” a well-known biography of Baden-Powell, was reported in the New York Times of 19 July, 2012 as saying:
    
    ” … available evidence points inexorably to the conclusion that Baden-Powell was a repressed homosexual.”
    
    Girls have been scouts in New Zealand since the late 1980s, and here we have a former scout leader on charges related to youngsters of both sexes:
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/119174045/scout-leader-accused-of-sexually-abusing-a-girl-despite-knowing-she-was-under-16
    
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    November 18, 2020 2:23pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, we shouldn’t dig too deep here because all those famous people you once adored have a past. Then there is Hollywood.
  
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  November 18, 2020 12:49pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  No, but a guy he shagged was.
  
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  November 18, 2020 12:51pm
Catgurl13

Someone’s books just went up in interest and value….
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/celebrity-chef-pete-evans-books-dropped-by-the-warehouse/YDOKXEIT5FJZCQHZPO4YXSB7TY/
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November 18, 2020 9:01am
- RJ
  
  And paid $200,000 to not appear on im a celebrity get me out of here. It was just the usual trolls that go on his social media to bitch
  
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  November 18, 2020 11:02am
- Fletch
  
  I’d never heard of the guy before yesterday, but it is frightening how the cancel social media mob can destroy a man’s career.
  
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  November 18, 2020 12:19pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    How can you NOT heard of him Fletch??
    
    He married Nikki Watson for goodness sake
    
    5 4
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    November 18, 2020 12:38pm
    - RJ
      
      Pete married who?
      
      4 3
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      November 18, 2020 12:45pm
    - Fletch
      
      ?‍♀️
      
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      November 18, 2020 1:43pm
  - lifesgood
    
    He’s a bit of a nut job. Has come up with some outrageous and rather dangerous alternative health theories but they already knew that, didn’t they?
    
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    November 18, 2020 2:06pm
- Inandout
  
  Cat, if we can scout around the Warehouse I am sure many suppliers can be cancelled. Just make something up and ‘announce’ on social media. Job done.
  
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  November 18, 2020 12:52pm
cas

If Nash doesn’t like Freedom campers and wants to ban vans, where will we find all the backpackers to do the horticultural work considering the Aussies are offering $2000 to Kiwis to go over to OZ to do the same thing.
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November 18, 2020 9:36am
- Nickc2
  
  Nash wouldn’t know if the town hall clock was up him till it chimed IMO.
  
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  November 18, 2020 11:38am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yes, and then there was Stuart…another prime example of the intellectual capacity of the cabinet, not!
  
  His unashamed advocacy for chasing “high rolling tourists”, (reference RNZ interview on Morning Report at 7.10am this morning) confirms he is not a deep thinker.
  
  His interview confirmed he has had a brain f*it and nothing more. He and the other fools promoting this brainless idea have clearly not thought the idea through. His interview with Corin Dann was confused and the only bit of the script he got correct was to use the word “reset” at least twice in 10 minutes.
  
  Somehow he thinks banning non-self contained Van’s will stop freedom campers/backpackers (2 different groups), and he he will not need to do expensive marketing campaigns to attract high rollers from Europe or the US to Milford Sound.
  
  Really?
  
  I think he needs to revisit the success of NZ Tourisms campaign of 2000 (a dismal failure when they tried to piggy back tourists to Australia for the Olympics to NZ). Moral of the story, you don’t promote and you don’t spend real money, you don’t get the tourists. High rollers go to high roller places like the Cote d’Azure or St Moritz/Davos and expect facilities and infrastructure that permit to get to remote places with ease and luxury – I don’t see that at Milford Sound.
  
  Then there are the backpackers who work the orchards, I am sure his newly elected colleague in Tukituki will tell him he will make a currently difficult situation even worse with such a policy.
  
  Then there are New Zealanders, with such a policy your average Kiwi will be priced out from visiting places such as Queenstown, once and for all.
  
  All you can say is, Nash had better book himself back into the Witless protectikn programme if this policy, is an example of the thinking he brings to the cabinet table.
  
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  November 18, 2020 12:20pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  https://foxnomad.com/2016/05/03/backpackers-not-spending-as-much-as-other-travelers-is-a-myth-why-thats-important-to-local-economies/
  Nash is STILL an idiot , that does NOT research his subject and as a typical Labour MP, only considers how he can sell his point of view politically (to get a vote). Not what is actually the truth.
  
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  November 18, 2020 4:04pm
- artemisia
  
  Ms Ardern says the Aussies offer makes no sense as people will have to pay for quarantine when they come back. If they come back.
  
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  November 18, 2020 7:17pm
lastmanstanding

The Chairman of the English Football Association was forced to resign because in an interview he referred to ‘coloured people”. He is a guy in his early 70s. He like those of that age have lived through various periods where the use of language has changed as it has always done.

No what he should have said is ‘people of colour”. But he didnt so the Left who now control Speech and Thought ran him our of town on a rail.

We live in scary times when the slip of the tongue gets you hung drawn and quartered by the Left.

I say the Left are the real enemy of free people. I say the Left are the force free people will have to battle unless they are to become enslaved to the Left and their sad twisted view of the world.
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November 18, 2020 9:52am
- alphabeatrium
  
  “People of colour” and “coloured people”… yet “disabled people” but not “people of disability”. These language rules don’t make any bloody sense.
  
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  November 18, 2020 10:00am
  - Jack5
    
    They’re Woke rules. The terms “coloured people” and “people of colour” are equally ignorant.
    
    Depending on the scientific of artistic definition you use it’s a matter of debate whether “black” is a colour.
    
    From the light spectrum, some would argue that “white” is a colour while “black” is the absence of colour.
    
    Recognition of a colour also depends on shared recognition. The British Prime Minister, William Gladstone, who was also an eminent scholar of Ancient Greek culture, was the first to notice that Ancient Greeks probably did not identify the colour red.
    
    Early White people arriving in New Zealand found that Maori at that stage did not have a separate word for “blue”. They used one term for green and blue.
    
    The folly of denominating people by colour is well illustrated in New Zealand, where White and Maori people have intermarried for nearly two centuries.
    
    We have many fair, even blue-eyed Maori, and thousands and thousands of pale-skinned folk who both identify as White and carry Maori genes.
    
    Everyone is a “person of colour”, except, perhaps, for black-skinned folk.
    
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    November 18, 2020 10:59am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    The point is just that, that they don’t make sense. The result is that people are afraid to say anything (the real goal) despite the issue being characterised as being about offending certain groups, which is, to quote Geoff Hurst when covering Italia ’90, a “n****r in the woodpile” situation.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMBDL2qjQ1Y
    
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    November 18, 2020 12:42pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Actually, what he should have said was BAME apparently. Unfortunately, he also works in the US where the “correct” term is people of colour.
  Jumping through the hoops of the insane left resulted in him getting tongue tied and saying the wrong term.
  The irony of course is that coloured players is factually correct anyway. The issue is that the Bigotry of the Left is causing them to assume his intent etc. They should all be fired for their intolerant bigotry, not him.
  
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  November 18, 2020 10:08am
  - Swifty
    
    Apparently BAME is now out too.
    
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53194376
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/nov/12/bame-term-offends-those-it-attempts-to-describe-sporting-survey-finds-sporting-equals
    
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    November 18, 2020 11:05am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Ah, it must be Wednesday, there’s a new term for minority people.
      
      5 1
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      November 18, 2020 12:52pm
  - oldfella
    
    The march of the Woke police is unrelenting. Beware of thinking wrong-thoughts.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8958283/Columnist-Suzanne-Moore-quits-Guardian.html
    
    8 1
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    November 18, 2020 11:26am
- Inandout
  
  Lasty, what about ‘people of gay’ or ‘people of sightless’?
  
  2 2
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  November 18, 2020 12:55pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  ‘people of colour’
  We are all people of colour. Try taking a selfie and measuring the different {Red,Green,Blue} tuple measures you get. {0,0,0} would be an error.
  
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  November 18, 2020 1:58pm
Maggie Pie

Did anyone see Trumpy being interviewed on Fox early this morning?
I must say he’s looking a lot more ‘Presidential’ with grey hair.
19 3
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November 18, 2020 9:58am
- MCos
  
  Left it a bit late
  
  6 2
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  November 18, 2020 12:00pm
  - Inandout
    
    mCos, now settle down with that tribal left language.
    
    4 3
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    November 18, 2020 12:56pm
Jack5

If you think Maori language pushed relentlessly, you’ve seen and heard nothing yet.

While the PR-led Government turns people’s attention to pricing at our two supermarket chains, encroachment of the State into our news media continues. This could be insidious for democracy.

A partnership deal has just been (quietly) announced between State-funded Maori Television and NZME, the chain that includes the NZ Herald, Newstalk ZB radio, North Island regional newspapers and other radio interests. Sharing of stories began today.

Add this to:

– The partnership deal with the tribal radio network that has “Maorified” Radio New Zealand.

– State funnelling money to regional newspapers through a scheme in which Radio New Zealand is the financial channel.

– Talk of merging TVNZ and Radio NZ into one State-owned news group.

– The parlous financial position of the Stuff newspaper chain, which means it will be wide open to State subsidies or even part-ownership.

– The millions of dollars the State puts into TV and radio programming through Creative NZ’s “New Zealand on Air”.

This is a relatively significant announcement for NZME, but I couldn’t find it in the company’s releases to the Stock Exchange.

Maori Television is a State-funded statutory corporation, presumably set up and run under the Maori Television Service Act 2003.

I posted about the Herald- Maori TV deal on General Debate last night, but after moderation hours, so I’m reposting it.

Links:

http://www.voxy.co.nz/business/5/377182
OR

https://stoppress.co.nz/news/nzme-and-maori-television-launch-content-partnership-deal/
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November 18, 2020 10:31am
- oldfella
  
  Meanwhile, Jack5, Chris Trotter has been sounding off about the shortcomings of the current Minister of Broadcasting. This well respected old leftie is NOT impressed!
  http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2020/11/if-only-we-had-minister-of-broadcasting.html
  What could go wrong?
  
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  November 18, 2020 11:30am
- Unity
  
  Well it certainly looks like the time to definitely stop accessing these sites. We will have to get our news elsewhere. Personally I’m fed up with hearing the Maori ‘made-up’ language and have programmed my ears to filter it out. It actually sounds stupid when spoken amongst English and I have no idea what they are talking about, nor do I want to know. We should have all Maori language or none and then we can decide which we want to see and hear.
  
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  November 18, 2020 11:34am
  - curry4me
    
    Unity: Q: What’s the best place for a TV set?
    A: TradeMe, or the nearest recycle centre.
    
    0 0
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    November 18, 2020 7:28pm
- Yabster
  
  more reasons to watch streaming services then-
  
  5 1
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  November 18, 2020 11:47am
rangitoto

US Navy shoot down ICBM in test using SM3 Block IIA missile launched from a destroyer.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8957487/US-Navy-shoots-intercontinental-ballistic-missile-space-warship-time.html
15 0
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November 18, 2020 10:35am
- curry4me
  
  rangitoto: Good. Now for a lot more trials, and installation along both coasts.
  
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  November 18, 2020 7:26pm
Maggie Pie

WARNING: Graphic content….

China used secret Microwave weapon to cook Indian Soldiers alive!

https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1328782733812899843

(was it Korma?)
3 10
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November 18, 2020 10:48am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  The Indians wont take that lying down. Wait for their reaction
  
  10 1
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  November 18, 2020 10:52am
- rangitoto
  
  A time when a tinfoil hat would actually be useful.
  
  6 0
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  November 18, 2020 11:02am
- C J Southern
  
  Yeah … nah
  
  https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/newsable.asianetnews.com/amp/india/indian-army-busts-the-times-fake-news-china-microwave-weapons-ladakh-vpn-qjz4yi
  
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  November 18, 2020 6:19pm
WaynelSexton

Still waiting for Kamala Harris to resign her Senate seat…..
The fake VP must not be very confident in the steal.
12 4
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November 18, 2020 11:07am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Harris will not be VP unless appointed under the required processes. That will be mid Dec at the earliest.
  
  4 6
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  November 18, 2020 2:02pm
  - Batman
    
    Even the pro-trump factions can’t decide on the exact details and dates of the fraud ?
    
    4 7
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    November 18, 2020 3:35pm
dcrane

A California school district is removing Huckleberry Finn and Of Mice and Men from its classrooms, among other classic novels, all in the name of “antiracism”.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/books/story/2020-11-12/burbank-unified-challenges-books-including-to-kill-a-mockingbird
11 1
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November 18, 2020 11:24am
Critical Thinker

BREAKING
Second Georgia County Finds Thousands More Votes, Majority Are For Trump

A memory card has been found during the recount in Fayette county with 2,755 votes. Decreasing Biden’s statewide lead in Georgia by 449. New margin total statewide in GA is a 12,929 lead for Biden.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/breaking-second-georgia-county-finds-thousands-more-votes-majority-are-for-trump

It really is strange that the now numerous “irregularities” and “glitches” all benefit Biden… All just coincidences I’m sure…

??
20 4
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November 18, 2020 11:27am
- RJ
  
  Lin Wood’s case in Georgia will be interesting.
  
  5 2
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  November 18, 2020 2:53pm
Maggie Pie

Maybe it’s just me, but has anyone else noticed the type of people who call talkback to discuss….. “the joys of Freedom Camping and the use of portable toilets”, all sound just a wee bit odd?
9 3
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November 18, 2020 11:40am
- MCos
  
  Maybe it’s just me, but has anyone else noticed the type of people who call talkback to discuss anything sound just a wee bit odd?
  
  11 1
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  November 18, 2020 12:03pm
  - Inandout
    
    MCos, except Marcus Lush eh?
    
    3 0
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    November 18, 2020 12:59pm
  - fernglas
    
    No. I don’t listen to talkback radio because people who do listen are odd.
    
    3 3
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    November 18, 2020 1:19pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgm_SJNNG-E

Ballots Discarded. Gains in Georgia.

In NV, 153,000 counties were discovered in Clark County.
A final result for a local race has not been announced.
It doesn’t mean NV will go to Trump. This was a down ticket
thing. But the ballot was the presidential one. Powell says the
Smart-Matic machine was deliberately designed to change votes.
It had been used by Maduro. No evidence of changed votes
would be left. Georgia had a sham recount. Bidens lead has
shrunk. Some Trump votes had been ‘lost’. The Georgia Sec of
State is a fraud. The Governor is hiding. Georgias rejection
rate of mail in ballots was 3%. This time it was .24%, despite
there being a lot more. Time for an audit to certify all
ballots. There needs to be a demonstrated chain of
custody. Fourteen state senators have asked for a
recount. [Wot! This can’t be right! CNN said Joe won./ sarc]
12 3
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November 18, 2020 11:47am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxfZVYySl_4

Oz-Japan Defence Links.

Prime Minister Scott Morrison has struck an historic deal with Japan’s new leader to boost the defence partnership between the two countries. The Reciprocal Access Agreement will enable Australian ships and aircraft to operate further north and offer greater legal protection for service personnel across both countries. A lot has changed since Darwin was bombed.
9 2
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November 18, 2020 11:48am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjRi3jwUNNo

A Win For Putin.

With Russia the sole coordinator of the Armenia-Azerbijan peace deal, Moscow has again shown its supremacy in the previous Soviet territories.
8 2
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November 18, 2020 12:03pm
- oob
  
  Soviet territories
  
  Soviet Republics actually but your point is well made.
  
  5 0
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  November 18, 2020 1:20pm
  - Jack5
    
    And likely trouble ahead in Estonia and Latvia, both with ethnic-Russian minorities of 25 per cent, but both members of NATO.
    
    Russia would have hard job retaking the Ukrainian-speaking part of Ukraine. They still remember the 4 million or so Ukrainians starved to death in the Holodomor, the famine imposed by Stalin in 1932-1933.
    
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    November 18, 2020 2:40pm
  - curry4me
    
    oob: Thanks for that. I should have paid more attention.
    
    2 0
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    November 18, 2020 7:22pm
Fletch

I see that the woke CEOs who run Allen’s confectionery have changed the name of the “Red Skin” lollies to “Red Rippers” because they are afraid that someone, somewhere would find the old name offensive. Unfortunately, it happens to be the name of a Russian serial killer ?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/allens-facing-backlash-for-renaming-redskins-lollies-after-russian-serial-killer/KRXMFQYCW7YPH7YW22PLBZHZHI/

ps, for those who haven’t tried the confectionery, it is pretty much the same as the old K-Bars.
7 3
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November 18, 2020 12:22pm
Swifty

More organised crime right here in NZ:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123429064/liquor-store-sales-on-ice-after-judge-orders-freeze-amid-allegations-of-staff-exploitation-worth-over-600k-in-unpaid-wages
5 0
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November 18, 2020 12:33pm
RJ

Biden formally listed in Ukraine criminal case

https://twitter.com/SatoshiMed/status/1328537623967772672
7 3
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November 18, 2020 12:37pm
Maggie Pie

I’m just heading up to New World for a bottle of Listerine.

https://twitter.com/i/events/1328631958520303621
7 3
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November 18, 2020 12:47pm
Suze Wainwright

All these people in aotearoa saying that Jacinda has a real mandate now – have they absolutely no respect for Clarke’s feelings…?
14 1
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November 18, 2020 1:08pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Good one!
  
  7 1
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  November 18, 2020 5:33pm
Inandout

Maggie, ‘buy Listerine, try Listerine, makes your Covid mouth ever so clean’.
7 1
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November 18, 2020 1:21pm
fernglas

Trump fires Krebs from Homeland Security, for having the temerity to say that the election was not rigged.
7 3
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November 18, 2020 1:22pm
- Batman
  
  So he’s freed up Krebs to speak publicly about the election without restriction?
  
  What a stable genius.
  
  4 8
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  November 18, 2020 2:28pm
RJ

Michigan’s largest county fails to certify election results over absentee ballot concerns

The decision by the Wayne County board of canvassers injects new drama into a legal fight waged by President Trump’s campaign in several battleground states.

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/elections/breaking-michigans-largest-county-fails-certify-election-results?utm_source=breaking-newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter
8 4
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November 18, 2020 2:03pm
- Batman
  
  Yes the Republican members block votes against it despite no evidence to substantiate the move.
  
  Silly little children. And in the case of one guy, William Hartman, a silly little racist it seems thanks to his Facebook page.
  
  3 13
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  November 18, 2020 2:32pm
  - Batman
    
    Update from CBS News, the Trumpers have chickened out of their little revolt against the people
    
    “BREAKING: The Wayne County Board of Canvassers has just unanimously voted to certify the results of the election & called on Michigan SOS Jocelyn Benson to conduct an audit of the unexplained precincts in Wayne County that did not match.”
    
    6 8
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    November 18, 2020 3:37pm
    - RJ
      
      What a dick comment, no they didn’t chicken out they got an audit of the ballots. Which is what the republicans have been after.
      
      11 3
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      November 18, 2020 3:43pm
      - Batman
        
        Oh please, they could have done that without resorting to block voting against.
        
        It’ll turn up a few votes either way and won’t change anything. As most recounts do
        
        6 9
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        November 18, 2020 4:16pm
    - Batman
      
      Update part 2: a fellow member of the Board absolute flames two of the members for their attempt to disenfranchise black voters. Delicious!
      
      https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1328882122724155393?s=19
      
      2 9
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      November 18, 2020 4:39pm
      - Fletch
        
        C’mon man. Disenfranchising black voters… What bullshit. Dems pull the racist card whenever things don’t go their way. And they doxed the electors in order to threaten them. They probably changed their minds because they didn’t want the mob showing up at the houses of their families with pitchforks.
        
        8 0
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        November 18, 2020 5:39pm
      - Batman
        
        As the bloke said, the variances were greater in one of the pro-trump 95% white areas, than the 80% black detroit area that they were protesting about.
        
        So let’s be charitable and say that they wanted to disenfranchise those black people because they voted for the wrong guy.
        
        They weren’t worried about the pro-Trump suburbs with greater errors…
        
        0 6
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        November 18, 2020 8:26pm
Maggie Pie

BREAKING 3 MINUTES AGO….

Second Georgia County finds hundreds of thousands more votes…..majority are for Trumpy!!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1328866797681061888

(can hardly wait to see the look on CJ’s dial 😀 )
12 6
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November 18, 2020 2:18pm
- virtualmark
  
  This is why they do audits.
  
  They found less than 3,000 votes that hadn’t been counted.
  
  Net, Trump gained less than 500 votes.
  
  Biden is still over 12,000 votes ahead in Georgia.
  
  Biden is still the President elect.
  
  4 9
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  November 18, 2020 3:39pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  I can fix it.
  SCOTUS call an injunction to postpone the electoral college certification. Until all votes a recounted, by hand observed by both parties and the FBI.
  ONLY fully compliant votes counted.
  ALL 50 states involved, federal govt. to pay.
  
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  November 18, 2020 4:21pm
  - Batman
    
    SCOTUS can’t do that unless a case actually makes it there.
    
    Then there’s the question of whether they would see fit to do that, based on the extremely flimsy cases put forward so far.
    
    But yes theoretically you are correct.
    
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    November 18, 2020 4:32pm
SB2

Maggie Pie , Trump and his supporters shouldn’t get get to carried away,

From your link,

Daily Beast reporter Sam Brodey wrote on Twitter: “GA elections spox @GabrielSterling says the ongoing election audit confirmed 2,755 previously uncounted votes in Fayette County 1,577 for Trump 1,128 for Biden Biden’s statewide advantage in GA now down to 12,929.”

A county that is particularly Pro-Trump
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November 18, 2020 4:04pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Sen Ted Cruz socks it to Twitter CEO Dorsey. Dorsey was clearly uncomfortable.
Interesting comment at the end from Cruz. Wonder if Twitter did flag it?

https://trendingpolitics.com/watch-ted-cruz-corners-jack-dorsey-gets-him-to-admit-he-s-not-a-voter-fraud-expert/?
6 3
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November 18, 2020 5:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Seems the Zuck got a good grilling as well, then got amnesia.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBJx9kqa9bc&feature=share&fbclid=IwAR3PZtIl2uN8RAc7DJRSydryQQbz8dRESr0K7ddGgNdlRmIHdkYKsRty_Ak
7 3
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November 18, 2020 5:46pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300161750/trelise-cooper-burglary-third-person-charged-over-500000-https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300161750/trelise-cooper-burglary-third-person-charged-over-500000-clothing-theftclothing-theft
So many people with so little good taste.
Only in Auckland.
4 3
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November 18, 2020 5:55pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Fucks sake. Someone pulled that real quick
  
  3 3
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  November 18, 2020 6:10pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Warning. Kiwiblog fact checkers will be along soon to ‘fact’ check this //
    
    5 3
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    November 18, 2020 6:13pm
Jack5

Britain’s Labour is in turmoil again after former leader Jeremy Corbyn has been re-admitted to the party.

The Telegraph reports Sir Keir Starmer faced a mutiny from his MPs after Labour was accused of “adding insult to injury” by readmitting Corbyn just three weeks after he was suspended from the party in a row over anti-Semitism.

The newspaper says Corbyn’s readmittance has sparked a major new row over anti-Semitism which threatens to undermine Sir Keir’s pledge to clean up Labour.
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November 18, 2020 7:30pm
igm

Well, well, well, this is the Labour losers you voted for:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/123428630/when-the-gang-moved-in-serenity-to-crime-land-in-suburbia-wellington
Maybe many of you will hav your dreams shattered by this sort of Ardern-accepted kindness!
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November 19, 2020 1:29am

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