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November 7, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 07 November 2020

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General Debate

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PhilBest

I have a real problem with the Democrats, the MSM, Democrat supporters, and Vichy “centre right” people, telling us that “election stealing” by the Democrat machine is just a conspiracy theory from deplorable right-wingers. My problem is based on simple psychology.
These people all hate Trump so much, they don’t regard election fraud as election fraud per se, in this case. They regard it as a moral imperative. The same goes for the “Russia collusion” frame-up and the set-up of people like Mike Flynn. Notice how no Democrat has yet been sentenced to jail for misremembering details of events in which no crime occurred. In fact no Democrat partisan has yet been sentenced to jail for actual lies over an actual crime.
And everyone from the Democrats themselves, to Vichy “centre right” people, see this as “just the way things should be”. It is pointless having any discussion with them on objective standards of truth and morality.
So to most of the people telling me “there is nothing to see here”, my rejoinder is, I doubt you believe that yourself. Not only do you not care about what there IS “to see there” and don’t want it investigated and exposed, you agree with the criminal fraud on “principle”.
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November 7, 2020 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  https://pjmedia.com/columns/david-solway-2/2020/11/04/did-the-tree-fall-trump-wonbut-n1125734
  
  “…Everyone knows that electoral tampering has been massive and ubiquitous, and that a fair vote would have borne landslide numbers for President Trump. Everyone knows that ballot harvesting, mail-in voting, and extended vote tallying for an indefinite period after the polls close, when new ballots are miraculously found and illegible or absent postmarks are ignored, is the broad, well-trodden path to electoral fraud. And everyone knows that the fix was in from the start.
  Indeed, the plot to steal the election by whatever means possible has been brewing for the last four years. Everything has been done, from the daily circulation of outright lies to phony impeachment procedures, to render the President illegitimate and to disqualify a vote in his favor. The “swamp” is not only deep, it is expansive. It is both vertical and horizontal. Its depths reach down to every major public institution and government agency. Its sludge spreads outward to the legacy media, cable news, and the Big Tech platforms. The swamp is everywhere. It is characterized by two salient features: endemic duplicity and suppression of countervailing truths, lying and censorship…”
  
  http://www.danielgreenfield.org/2020/11/the-underdog-election.html?utm
  
  “…every Republican running for public office in areas run by Democrat political machines knows that he has to beat the voter fraud margin.
  
  The voter fraud margin is the amount of votes that Democrats add or can add to the total to rig the election.
  One of the unprecedented things about this election, in the year from hell, is that the amount of mail-in ballots, of ballot harvesting, made the voter fraud margin so much bigger. Democrats had set the ground by seizing control of key states and key positions in them in preparation for the election. And even where they didn’t, their machines got busy.
  
  This was always going to happen. It happens every election, but the scale of it is different. As are the stakes.
  
  I don’t have to state the obvious about all the Biden votes that “magically” showed up, about why vote counting was suddenly suspended, or why totals suddenly stopped being updated for no apparent reason…
  “…The post-election street fight is a test of how big the voter margin fraud can get, how many more votes can be discovered than there are people, and how many ballots can magically show up overnight.
  
  And even if the street fight is lost, it’s worth fighting because it exposes the lie behind the legitimacy of the powers trying to take over the White House.
  
  They couldn’t steal the election in the daylight, so they had to do it in the dead of night. They couldn’t steal it in empty halls, so they had to do it after everyone went home. And the more their lie is challenged, the weaker their power becomes, and the more they have to resort to blatant thuggery to wield it.
  
  That’s what happened on Election Day.
  
  The polite voter fraud margin failed and they had to steal the election crudely. Now the real test between lies and truth begins…”
  
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  November 7, 2020 8:01am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    What crap. About as believable as your views on Covid.
    
    In this election, largely due to Covid, there has been a huge amount of mail votes. These are fundamentally harder to count than ballots cast on election day. They have to removed from envelopes, they have to be checked off against rolls, signatures, etc have to be checked. All this takes time.
    
    In contrast none of this is done with votes cast on election day. For instance, where paper ballots are used they are simply removed from the ballot boxes and the counted. Way quicker.
    
    I have been part of vote checking on several occasions. I know what sort of steps are required to accurately count votes.
    
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    November 7, 2020 8:54am
    - theoldbloke
      
      NZ is not the USA Wayne.
      Your experience is invalid in the US context.
      
      I know a gentleman who lives in Oregon. Many californians use his address when they buy a car (the fees etc are way cheaper in oregon).
      
      Guess what. He gets there voting papers sent to him. Currently he gets around 25 votes!
      
      All he does is fill in the selection HE wants and pops them back in the mail.
      
      He thinks its a hell of a joke.
      
      No fraud in A merry car
      Yea right
      
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      November 7, 2020 9:03am
      - info@cruzpro.com
        
        I think this works both ways. The Republicans and Democrats alike have unscrupulous people doing illegal things. There is no reason to believe that one group is more voluminous than the other. In the end, what little ballot fraud exists, should even out.
        
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        November 7, 2020 9:16am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Which is precisely why votes are checked against electoral rolls. To ensure two things, first, that the vote does come from a registered voter and second, to ensure that each registered voter only votes once.
        
        So your “gentleman” might have received 25 voting papers. His corruption in filling out all of them has ensured that 24 other people will not be able to vote. It is also quite possible he will end up being prosecuted, as signatures, etc are checked.
        
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        November 7, 2020 10:05am
      - igm
        
        Wrong country Wayne, is your vision totally clouded!
        
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        November 7, 2020 10:10am
      - Jimmy White
        
        I register a Car in Oregon but live in California.
        Oregon send me a mail in Ballot to the address in Oregon based on my Car Rego details. The recipient Votes using that Ballot.
        California sends me a mail in Ballot to my Address in California. I Vote using that Ballot.
        Both California and Oregon only receive one Vote from me. The States don’t cross check each other so nobody is the wiser.
        
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        November 7, 2020 12:26pm
      - Jim
        
        Jimmy White
        I register a Car in Oregon but live in California.
        [details of fraud]
        The States don’t cross check each other so nobody is the wiser.
        
        Smells like bullshit, but as a California resident with many Oregon friends – I’ll bite.
        
        So you’re into voter fraud? And you vote Biden?
        
        You sir, are a fuckstick.
        
        Wait, you vote Trump? So what is your point? Trumpists are fraudsters?
        
        I *knew* it.
        
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        November 7, 2020 4:42pm
    - PhilBest
      
      My views on Covid are logical and well argued from the evidence. If you want to go along with incompetence and /or bad faith, that is just entirely consistent with your entire career. You probably didn’t join Labour or the Greens from day one and have a career serving them, because you saw you could do more damage as a subversive in the ranks of National.
      
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      November 7, 2020 9:17am
      - Aunty
        
        “My views on Covid are logical and well argued from the evidence.”
        
        No, they are not.
        
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        November 7, 2020 11:35am
    - JackRabbit
      
      What you are describing is your ideal, where everyone has the same intentions.
      
      You viewpoint however does not take in an awareness of the dark or evil side of mankind. Only good people obey the rules. For those rules to be observed, everyone would have to be operating to the finest good.
      
      But history tells us that people with bad agendas do exist and continue to find ways to usurp laws and rules created with good intent.
      
      Every system has loopholes and no system is impenetrable. People with hidden agendas and dark motives always find a way.
      
      If people with hidden agendas and dark motives did not exist, and systems were impenetrable there would be no crime, no wars, our prisons would empty, no need for police, no assaults, no rape, no hacking or ransomware. No inhumantity to man.
      
      If fact there would be no need for government as everyone would be self responsible and self governing.
      
      You sir, are ascribing a level of blandness to a world that is anything but. You are describing a world where everyone’s intent is beige, but in reality the motivations and machinations of said people cover an entire spectrum between good and bad. Time to take off your beige coloured glasses.
      
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      November 7, 2020 9:20am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      He’s a Trump fanboy who reckons he’s the GM of a big NGO. He likes to link to articles by what he terms as “great thinkers” with who he agrees. Sometimes, after rubbing against the scratch pole long enough, he even says “great thinkers” who agree with him with no awareness his self-promoting is obvious. Even crazy Billy has got one up on him because he fronts up under his own name.
      He’s told the board that he has been in charge of polling booths, probably making cups of tea for the other ladies from the knitting club who don’t like him to get too close because of the cat fur.
      
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      November 7, 2020 9:35am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      NZ is a darn sight more rigorous than the US State machines. In most cases our voters are proven to exist at the time of voting or actually have a right to vote.
      It’s a USA problem so they will face the consequences.
      
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      November 7, 2020 9:47am
      - Paulus
        
        I understand that no identification is required in many States to register for voting.
        And the State Governors and their local judges have agreed.
        
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        November 7, 2020 11:00am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Paulus
        
        So no checks and balances.
        
        Nothing stopping someone voting at every voting booth in the area, or voting several times at the same booth at different times when different attendants are on, or repeatedly in a range of disguises.
        
        Nothing stopping someone sending in multiple ballots or simply loading up a ballot box with ballots. i.e. election ballot stuffing. As per the false democrat election ballot stuffing saga in “The Good Wife”, with loaded ballot boxes being received in the dead of night.
        
        And we know that truth is stranger than fiction.
        
        “Alicia, Will, and Diane handle a series of emergency court proceedings to deal with potential ballot-box stuffing in Peter Florrick’s gubernatorial campaign. They file a motion with the court to get the votes thrown out. But when they learn that most of the votes in the box were cast for Peter, they burn the midnight oil to reverse course.
        
        But then, an ethical dilemma: Will sees surveillance footage of a Florrick campaign worker wheeling out the ballot box. Surprise! It was the Florrick campaign that committed voter fraud. If Will presents this evidence in court, Peter is expected to lose the motion, which will cost him the election.”
        
        With no check and balances, Ballot Boxes being wheeled inside in the middle of the night is a very old con.
        
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        November 7, 2020 1:07pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        And anyone that thinks such things don’t happen, need only to spend a day with one of the investigative teams that permanently deal with:
        
        a) Social Welfare claimants who register under a dozen different names, including using dead peoples names, and invented identities, and claim benefits for children that don’t exist.
        
        b) Social Welfare claimants who claim benefits they are not entitled to, e.g. claiming to be living alone when they are in a relationship *cough* *cough* Winston Peters.
        
        c) Pharmacies who claim re-reimbursements for regular prescriptions over a long period for customers who were only ever a one time prescription here on a two week holiday and went home months or years ago.
        
        The list is endless.
        
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        November 7, 2020 1:25pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        We are a village in population.
        
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        November 8, 2020 12:16am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Signatures checked?
      
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      November 7, 2020 2:47pm
  - rouppe
    
    The USA election method has been around for, well, if not centuries then decades.
    
    Any fraud possible, is possible for anybody.
    
    One could easily also talk about a newly appointed postmaster General reducing mail boxes. Or reports of mail boxes mysteriously being removed before election day.
    
    The problem isn’t whichever party you don’t support, it is the process.
    
    If the process is weak, it is open to fraud.
    
    The answer is to improve the voting process, not constantly complain that the process has failed the loser
    
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    November 7, 2020 9:31am
    - amospicton
      
      Agreed Rouppe and this is the problem with mail votes. There is much more scope for fraud than there is with in-person voting. I also believe that if you can’t be bothered to go to a polling booth on election day then your vote isn’t as valid as someone who makes an effort.
      
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      November 7, 2020 10:12am
    - Paulus
      
      Sorry no can do far too many vested interests involved as all State appointments are voted on and their underlings are appointed from there.
      
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      November 7, 2020 11:02am
    - Jimmy White
      
      The Mail box removal was fake. Yes they removed OLD mail boxes but installed brand new ones just down the road a couple of days later.
      
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      November 7, 2020 12:36pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      “The USA election method has been around for, well, if not centuries then decades”
      
      Part of the problem is that there isn’t a single, consistent, verifiable process for enrolling, registering, voting, counting and announcing the results. Think of it as 50 different fiefdoms, each with their own infrastructure, systems, rules and processes.
      
      Some states count the mail-in and advance votes before election day; some start counting them on election day with the other votes; some collect them and don’t even look at them to start counting until after election day. Some states allow your vote to count as long as it is posted (and post-marked) prior to or on election day, and some require the vote to have been received prior to or on election day.
      
      Some states use manual machines, some use electronic machines, some use manually filled-in paper ballots like New Zealand. The systems are patently unfit for purpose and need to be thrown out and start again. This being ‘Merica, that will never happen – too many vested interests in the status quo.
      
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      November 7, 2020 5:04pm
  - bruceavon
    
    Trump had an integrity commission last time, to look into and expose voter fraud, led by Mike Pence, huge powers and resources. Found nothing. Quietly disbanded in 2018.
    
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    November 7, 2020 9:40am
- Nickc2
  
  I think this pretty much explains how things work. Listen to the podcast.
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/podcasts/the-leighton-smith-podcast/leighton-smith-podcast-episode-89-november-6th-2020/
  
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  November 7, 2020 8:58am
- artemisia
  
  Lots of media coverage along the lines of ‘electoral fraud – where is the evidence’.
  
  The proper place for evidence is in the courtroom where it can be presented, challenged, decided upon.
  
  Armies of lawyers for both sides are already on the case.
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:13am
  - freethinker
    
    When democrat vote counters are removed for identifying fraud and Law enforcement refuses to ensure oversight as per court orders there is a major problem.Check out Zero Hedge and You Tube .
    
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    November 7, 2020 12:42pm
    - Jimmy White
      
      Thousands of Votes for GOP Claimed as Democrat.
      https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/11/06/report-glitch-caused-6k-michigan-ballots-meant-for-republicans-to-go-to-democrats/
      
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      November 7, 2020 4:56pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Confucius say “woter not win erection. Wote counter win erection”.
        
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        November 7, 2020 7:12pm
- BeeJay
  
  I really think it’s time for you people who want to keep preaching conspiracies about votes that “magically appear” because they happen to be votes for Biden, that Democrats are “stealing the election” etc etc, to just need to grow up and get over it!
  Trump is losing! Every case taken to the Courts about vote manipulation so far, has been thrown out due to lack of factual evidence, and has only been hearsay evidence which the Courts obviously won’t accept! Stop whining and “put your big boy pants on” just like Trump has been advised to do!
  If the final vote count says that Biden wins, then Biden wins! If recounts reverse the result for Biden, and says that Trump wins, then Trump wins.
  FFS grow up and just stop your whinging and crying and just wait for the final declaration!
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:47am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    “If the final vote count says that Biden wins, then Biden wins! If recounts reverse the result for Biden, and says that Trump wins, then Trump wins.”
    
    Thank you Captain Obvious, perhaps you could help with another question that has concerned mankind for eons. What colour is the sky?
    
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    November 7, 2020 6:36pm
Gulag1917

Consequences for Australia if Biden wins.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=LtTBXLB0PwQ
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November 7, 2020 8:06am
artemisia

Tamatha Paul, Wellington City councillor – not the first time she has shot her mouth off.

City councillor removes tweet calling public submitters ‘absolute knobs’

Not to worry, after student politics she is on the ratepayer gravy train, and more than likely hopes to segue onto the central government taxpayer gravy train.

Wellington – we voted for her, and if not are we ‘absolute knobs’. Is that similar to the basket of deplorables?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123317791/city-councillor-removes-tweet-calling-public-submitters-absolute-knobs
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November 7, 2020 8:19am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Frightening to think that she couldn’t understand the clear message the residents were making.
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:22am
  - Nickc2
    
    This shiela has a pre-conceived university imparted agenda IMO.
    
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    November 7, 2020 9:28am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    The residents’ message wasn’t clear at all. They claim they want the area to continue to be accessible to poor people as well as rich, and that the way to do that is to prevent the provision of more housing in the area.
    
    But preventing new housing from being built is exactly what you would do if you did want to keep, or encourage, poor people out.
    
    If supply is unable to meet demand, then the price goes up. That is market economics 101. Why would the market for housing in Mt Victoria be expected to behave in precisely the opposite way?
    
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    November 7, 2020 11:40am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Tamantha Paul could not understand the woman was appealing against expensive developments being placed in Mt Vic where folks like her would not be able to afford to live there.
      
      one of the women said she opposed medium-density housing in the suburb because it would lead to unaffordable housing for some people currently living in the area.
      
      “I don’t think that’s a good idea at all, because the people that can afford to live in those [new homes], it won’t be us.
      
      “The more up-building you try to do in the city, the more expensive it becomes.”
      
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      November 7, 2020 12:20pm
      - Albert_Ross
        
        But it simply doesn’t follow that “the more building you do, the more expensive it becomes”. Basic economics says exactly the opposite – the less building you do, the more expensive it becomes.
        
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        November 7, 2020 1:09pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @Albert Ross
        
        I am not debating the economics of housing supply… that is the politician’s job..and is a point that Tamantha Paul could have made.
        
        But instead, she publicly abused the folks who were advocating for affordable housing close to the city.
        
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        November 7, 2020 2:56pm
      - Albert_Ross
        
        I completely agree that she shouldn’t call members of the public “knobs”. That is disgraceful language for an elected official to use in public, no matter who the people are or what they’ve done or said.
        
        But it is not actually unreasonable that she didn’t understand the point the speaker was making. That was neither clear nor coherent.
        
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        November 7, 2020 3:15pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        @Albert Ross: “But it simply doesn’t follow that “the more building you do, the more expensive it becomes”. ”
        
        Perhaps, but that’s not what she said. Read it again.
        
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        November 7, 2020 6:39pm
    - Jimmy White
      
      Keep the old run down, cold, damp and earthquake prone houses so the poor can live in them and complain about it.
      They will be able to move into the brand new Kiwi Build houses and bike to work. Three cheers for te Cindy.
      
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      November 7, 2020 12:46pm
      - Rachael Membery
        
        Work?
        
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        November 7, 2020 2:51pm
    - artemisia
      
      Depends what is being built. ECON101 might work nationally but maybe not in Mt Victoria.
      
      Mt Victoria new builds are not going to be cheap unless they are crammed-in shoeboxes. Developers spending big to buy land in a small, pricey and tightly held residential suburb are going to extract as much profit as they can. That is not going to mean ‘cheap’ shoeboxes. ‘Cheap’? They won’t be anyway, they will be mid priced or higher.
      
      I didn’t see the video, but presume Tamatha Paul did see it in its entirety and still publicly slagged off submitters. She is no doubt playing to her constituency, but that is not her job. And she just looks stupid frankly.
      
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      November 7, 2020 4:19pm
      - Albert_Ross
        
        But new build doesn’t have to be cheap to address housing affordability.
        
        Consider. There are four houses for sale, and five people who want to buy houses. The richest buyer will buy the best of the four houses, the second richest the second best, etc; and the poorest buyer won’t be able to buy anything, because they will be outbid for the fourth best house by the fourth richest buyer.
        
        Now add a fifth house for sale. It’s still the case that the richest buyer will buy the best house of the five, etc – but now the poorest buyer will be able to buy the fifth best house.
        
        This result is the same, whether the new house is more expensive, or less expensive, or middle of the range compared to the four original houses.
        
        If the new house is more expensive than any of the original four, the richest buyer will buy it and the seller of the previously best house will have to adjust their asking price to what the second richest buyer is able to pay, and the seller of the previously second best house has to sell to the third richest, etc. If it’s in the middle of the range, the third richest buyer will buy it and the seller of the previous third best house will have to adjust their asking price to what the fourth richest buyer is able to pay, and now the previously fourth best house has to be priced for the fifth richest buyer. If the new build is inferior to the existing four, the seller will have to adjust the asking price to something that the poorest buyer can pay.
        
        There is no way that adding more houses into Mt Victoria, or anywhere else, will increase the price of houses already there.
        
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        November 7, 2020 7:16pm
- JackRabbit
  
  “Last year, at 22, the self-described “troublemaking young Māori from Tokoroa” was elected to the Wellington City Council.”
  
  Another self-entitled woke socialist with inverted thinking who believes Wellington serve her, not the other way around.
  
  In the private sector it would be – “Here is your severance pay, there is the door, and don’t come back.”
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:25am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Just wait until she pops up on the Labour or Green Party list in 2023. The WCC gig is just an apprenticeship to Ms Paul on her pathway to a lifetime on the public tit.
    
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    November 7, 2020 9:43am
    - JackRabbit
      
      No doubt, as she is a mate of Chloe’s.
      
      Famous Quotes:
      “One of the biggest problems here in Aotearoa is that a lot of us fail to see the connection with all the shit that happened to us 200 years ago. It is a mamae that we can see manifest in our whānau in the prison system.”
      
      “Straight up though, what the fuck are letting fees? Last year, I rented through a private landlord and paid no letting fees.”
      
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      November 7, 2020 11:06am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Is she an advocate for light rail along Lambton Quay too?
    
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    November 7, 2020 9:49am
Maggy Wassilieff

Newsroom is providing excellent coverage and research into the twisted machinations of Crown Law in keeping historic abuse survivors from justice.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/investigations/abuse-torture-and-a-deep-state-campaign-of-denial

The role of our current Solicitor -General Una Jagose in this saga is chilling.

Jagose isn’t your usual figurehead, who can deflect blame by saying it didn’t happen on her watch or she hasn’t delved into the detail.

She first joined Crown Law in 2002, and, as team leader of a public law team from 2007, helped manage historic abuse claims.

Jagose clarifies she’s at the commission to give evidence of how the Crown conducts itself, not discuss matters of fact. “It’s too long ago, I don’t remember.”

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-crown-bent-out-of-shape-by-abuse

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/the-case-for-shutting-out-crown-law
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November 7, 2020 8:28am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The abuse in State Institutions was real. My family disclosed it on TV1 in 1978 and the Minister did not return to Parliament the next election.
  It’s all in my book “My First 80 Years” at lambtonpublishing.com
  
  Discount for Kiwibloggers;
  Ebook for $5. 93KO
  Printed $25 OB39
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:59am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I don’t think anyone doubts the scale of abuse in State care institutions, but what we didn’t know is how little of our tax-payer $$$$ has gone toward assisting the victims.
    
    Historic abuse claims have proved a lucrative little earner for some folk who have ensured that the sorry saga has been spun out for as long as possible.
    
    Where has all the rest of this public money been going? As MSD admitted, 60 percent of the $77m it has spent to date has not gone settling historic cases but instead being soaked up in legal aid bills, external legal fees and operational costs.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/429765/analysis-strikingly-low-pay-outs-for-victims-of-state-abuse
    
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    November 7, 2020 10:47am
    - sooty
      
      That can’t be right surely.
      You mean she’s not part of the sisterhood!
      
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      November 7, 2020 11:27am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Victims are reluctant to come forward too. Those who have been damaged are frequently not able to handle further anxiety. Others who have adapted have opted out of being further disturbed. I have a son in that situation, another didn’t recover and he terminated his life.
      Despite massive paperwork on hand what benefit is to be gained? The poor behaviour of the State and its institutions remains despite multiple reviews. The staff attitudes, including “social workers” seem invariant.
      
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      November 7, 2020 1:28pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Same as the Pike River of money.
      
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      November 7, 2020 1:30pm
KevO'Brien

Wow. This deep state stuff goes back into history and is seated in the English claims on US settlers allegiance. Thought provoking.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/11/03/understanding-tri-fold-nature-of-deep-state/
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November 7, 2020 8:31am
- SGA
  
  .
  
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  November 7, 2020 8:42am
- Milhous
  
  The site you reference is widely acknowledged as a Russian state disinformation site. One of its columnists is also a pro Hitler Holocaust denier.
  
  This doesn’t surprise me.
  
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  November 7, 2020 8:47am
  - theoldbloke
    
    Widely acknowledged by who?…or is this your opinion.
    References are always helpful when you try to debunk something.
    
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    November 7, 2020 9:05am
    - Milhous
      
      Look it up yourself
      
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      November 7, 2020 9:17am
    - MarkF
      
      2 second search on Google;
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Culture_Foundation
      
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      November 7, 2020 9:19am
      - theoldbloke
        
        There you go Milhouse
        Easy isnt it 🙂
        
        7 2
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        November 7, 2020 9:25am
      - Loddenthinks
        
        wikipedia – snigger
        
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        November 7, 2020 6:46pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      I’m with you on this oldbloke.
      
      A big part of my working life is research and evaluating data, and it requires developing robust skills and methods to differentiate between truth and fiction.
      
      Words like “debunk” and terms like “conspiracy theory”, are knee-jerk emotive terms to discredit the opposing view rather than rationally debate the subject matter. Posting links helps, but not always.
      
      I have an automatic mental “spam” filter where I “tag” such emotive words and terms as “mental spam”, and the user as a “mental spammer” with limited thinking and discernment skills.
      
      Even when links are provided to support the “spam”, I don’t follow unless the user has either provided rational logic or more often has a pattern of rational logic in their postings, and therefore a pattern of credibility.
      
      Incidentally, this approach is how one part of spam filters work in the real world. In short, measuring credibility.
      
      Being “whitelisted” in a spam filter, whether mental or physical, requires establishing and maintaining credibility.
      
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      November 7, 2020 9:48am
    - Jimmy White
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Culture_Foundation
      https://euvsdisinfo.eu/an-unfounded-foundation/
      
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      November 7, 2020 12:54pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Gee. Russian State disinfo about 1876 and earlier.
    
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    November 7, 2020 10:00am
I remember when

I understand how the MMP system allocates seats – I just wonder why 50% of the vote gives you 65 seats.
Surely 50% of the vote would give you 60 seats. You would still govern alone, the difference would be that we would save on the salaries of the reduced number of list MPs.
Why re-allocate the votes received by the unsuccessful parties?
Obviously if your party failed to meet the 5% threshold you voted against the major parties. Why do they now get extra seats?
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November 7, 2020 8:56am
- MarkF
  
  Around 7% of the vote didn’t count, small parties etc. So 50% out of 93% = 65 seats. (Approx 54%)
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:25am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Agree with you Mark. My idea would be a cost saving and still maintain proportionality by just having 7% fewer MPs from the list and only 112 MPs this term.
    
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    November 7, 2020 9:57am
- alphabeatrium
  
  I’m still waiting for non-votes to count as empty seats. That would be a great little spanner in the works.
  
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  November 7, 2020 10:05am
  - MCos
    
    You’re not thinking this through are you.
    
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    November 7, 2020 1:46pm
artemisia

Spuds, local, imported and the EU spud mountain.

I see there is a request to MBIE to head off imported product prob via tariff.

Just setting up an online grocery order and see there are frozen spud products ready to cook / heat for not much more than actual spuds per kg. And in some cases less than actual spuds. Some imported from Belgium, some from Australia.

Shipping frozen products halfway round the world can’t be cheap. So why aren’t our local growers and supermarkets competitive? And where are the consumer voices?
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November 7, 2020 8:58am
- mandk
  
  It is difficult to be competitive when Belgian and Dutch producers are dumping surplus production into our market, i.e. they are selling into our market at a lower price than they are selling into their own markets.
  This is established fact, as required for the govt to order an enquiry into whether an anti-dumping duty is in the public interest.
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:20am
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    And New Zealand butter is cheaper overseas than here.
    
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    November 7, 2020 9:45am
    - Flossie
      
      Just wondering if that is true if the currency is converted back to NZ $ ?
      
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      November 7, 2020 10:11am
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        It is.
        
        BC (Before Covid) I’d get 2-3 assignments a year overseas. Even in Singapore, NZ Butter was cheaper by 30% than in a Manawatu 4Square. In London, lamb was cheaper (and tastier) than what we could buy here.
        
        AC (after Covid) we seem to be getting better meat in shops as – I assume – exporting it is tough and more expensive as many ships are spending literally a week anchored off-port due to low manning levels and CovidHysteria meaning take 3-4 times as long to unload and reload.
        
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        November 7, 2020 6:26pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Likewise building products, meat and fish.
      
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      November 7, 2020 11:02am
    - JackRabbit
      
      There is point comparing the NZ retail shelf price with the NZ export price, because the latter is not taking into account the distribution chain markups and bulk pricing.
      
      When it hits the shop shelves overseas it is just as costly and then some.
      
      https://www.amazon.com/ANCHOR-BUTTER-Zealand-Butter-Salted/dp/B002CXX31G
      
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      November 7, 2020 1:50pm
      - gump
        
        That’s a third party Amazon reseller.
        
        1 0
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        November 7, 2020 6:43pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        That’s not “hitting the shops” though is it?
        
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        November 7, 2020 6:53pm
  - artemisia
    
    And Australia?
    
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    November 7, 2020 11:50am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Some counties are better and more efficient at producing certain things. This is why New Zealand is not mass manufacturing automobiles. We are really good at some things such as growing things and are on the receiving end of this advantage. The things we do well have a cost advantage and we don’t complain about that so why complain when other countries do things better than us? Take advantage of their lower prices!
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:24am
- freemark
  
  I’ve just tipped another $6 bag of potting mix on top of our home growing spuds-in-the-old-sack. By the time we harvest they’ll be up there with the most expensive potatoes in the country. Oh well..gardening’s fun
  
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  November 7, 2020 2:36pm
I remember when

I love how getting beaten in the cannabis referendum by the margin of over 2% means most people support change!
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November 7, 2020 9:00am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  To James Shaw it’s definitely a mandate…
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:22am
- Ehlana
  
  And yet, when 81.5% of voters supported reducing the number of MPs in 1999, that was not a mandate for change.
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:28am
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    And in 1999 when over 90% supported stricter sentencing yet now Labour is going to remove the 3 strikes legislation
    
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    November 7, 2020 10:14am
- Bob
  
  You must remember that Chloe is a product of the ‘new maths’ education system. 1 + 1 =3.
  Cullen was a master of this during his time, spent the same dollar three times.
  
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  November 7, 2020 10:06am
lastmanstanding

The CCP will be relishing the elections. Forget Biden they see Harris as an ally. She like our Cindy is hard Left and Harris will take the US hard left.

She will roll back the trade restrictions and allow China full and free access to US markets.

The Yanks wont know what hit them under her Presidency and because she is a woman of colour she will get away with it.
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November 7, 2020 9:04am
- Harriet
  
  I thought so too but I’ve since changed my mind.
  
  Cindy won and doesn’t want much to do with her so called ‘comrades’.
  Aussie Labour are now wanting to ditch the Greens I read.
  
  And the right of the US democrats will do the same with Harris and Co. I’ve also read.
  
  They all don’t want the ugliness and craziness look.
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:23am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Jacinda is going to go from strength to strength this term. Having ditched the handbrake she will move into that centre position herself.
    
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    November 7, 2020 10:01am
  - Bob
    
    Adern doesn’t require the comrades vocal support now, she is in a position of power and can implement the Comrades agenda at will.
    
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    November 7, 2020 10:08am
  - Paulus
    
    All Cindy wants is the quickest way out of New Zealand which is why she is putting her world visits as soon as possible to start this move.
    She will be gone within 18 months leaving Robertson to sort out her mess.
    Having an overwhelming electoral win she is invincible and wants the world to know it.
    
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    November 7, 2020 11:09am
    - Tall Man
      
      Can’t wait for that to happen. Thje mess they create plus her absence will allow a change to occur.
      
      Not sure who will be to the fore but I doubt it will be Act.
      
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      November 7, 2020 6:05pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  The US President and Vice President can’t make laws, Congress (the House of Representatives) is the only body that can create a law proposal which then has to be approved by both the Senate and the President before it can be passed into law.
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:27am
  - Jimmy White
    
    The Democrats Hold Congress and if they get the White House will hold two out of three.
    They will extend the Senate by bringing in more States (GOP only hold it by a couple of votes) and in 2022 will hold all three. They are already planning to change the electoral system.
    They will rule for the next 30 years.
    
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    November 7, 2020 1:01pm
- Wayne Mapp
  
  Harris is not hard left. In fact the hard left opposed her because she was too centrist for them. They thought she was too tough on Law and Order when she was AG of California.
  To me she seems a bit like Priti Patel, the Home Office Secretary. Both tough minded women who take no crap.
  
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  November 7, 2020 10:11am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Harris has been willing to signal support for the identity politics of the hard left. Maybe she will stop short of pandering to them once she has her bum in the big chair, but that remains to be seen. (She is a typically amoral politician who will go in whatever direction maximises her power) Dangerously divisive if she does follow through on her words.
    
    But the worst thing about DNC presidency is that they are deep in pockets of people who make their money from doing deals with China. They will bend over backwards to allow China to continue their abuses; of citizens, neighbours and industrial theft programs.
    
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    November 7, 2020 10:34am
  - Nickc2
    
    Get real Wayne. When she was AG of California, she would not prosecute blacks.
    
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    November 7, 2020 11:08am
  - Nukuleka
    
    Funny Wayne that the non partisan GovTrack found from Harris’s voting record that she is the most liberal of all current senators. You may say not ‘hard left’ but certainly the most left in the Senate.
    
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    November 7, 2020 4:24pm
  - Tall Man
    
    You’ve met her I take it Wayne?
    
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    November 7, 2020 5:58pm
- amospicton
  
  Thankfully they don’t control the Senate which will make it hard for them to do much.
  
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  November 7, 2020 10:16am
Fletch

As I mentioned in the other thread, the US election may well go all the way to the Supreme Court in the manner of Bush Vs Gore in 2000. Why? Because Democrats have overplayed their hand. They circumvented state legislatures and went to the courts in order to change election law allowing mail-in voting and the return of late ballots by mail etc, which they have no power power to do under the Constitution.

Daniel Horowitz has written a very good article on it, as has someone at Fox.

The Constitution also gave state legislatures the exclusive authority to regulate the “Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives.” While Congress can overrule the choices of the state legislatures, state courts cannot. This is a crucial point. State legislatures set the deadlines, define the validity of ballots, and the manner of counting the votes.

The mail-in ballots received between Tuesday and Friday this week in Pennsylvania and accepted under the order of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court could decide the winner of the presidential race in that state, even if the winner prevails by a very small number of popular votes. This is not unprecedented. In 2000, George W. Bush won Florida, the state’s electoral votes and the presidency by about 500 votes.

It is at this point that Trump has a strong case pending in the U.S. Supreme Court. His campaign and the Republican Party of Pennsylvania can challenge the vote in the state on the grounds that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court unconstitutionally interfered with the state legislature’s sole authority over the time, place, and manner of federal elections and over the selection of presidential electors.

If the U.S. Constitution directly grants those powers to the legislature of Pennsylvania, state courts have no authority to alter state election law for federal office, including the presidency. As a result, the U.S. Supreme Court could strike down the extension of the Pennsylvania deadline to accept ballots until Friday and order the state to reject any ballots that arrived after Election Day on Tuesday.

This is not some constitutional flight of fancy. U.S. Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito has already made clear his view that the Pennsylvania Supreme Court has violated the U.S. Constitution by allowing mail-in ballots to be accepted until Friday.

In an opinion urging the U.S. Supreme Court to accelerate its consideration of the issues raised in the Boockvar case, Alito wrote: “The Supreme Court of Pennsylvania has issued a decree that squarely alters an important statutory provision enacted by the Pennsylvania Legislature pursuant to its authority under the Constitution of the United States to make rules governing the conduct of elections for federal office.”

Joined by Justices Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch, Alito concluded: “That question has national importance, and there is a strong likelihood that the State Supreme Court decision violates the Federal Constitution.” In a separate case, Justice Brett Kavanaugh adopted the same view.

[…]

If Barrett joins the other four conservative justices, who share her originalist approach to constitutional interpretation, then Roberts could not stop the Supreme Court from intervening in Pennsylvania or from deciding in favor of invalidating all mail-in ballots that came in after Election Day.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/trump-biden-election-supreme-court-john-yoo

https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-state-legislatures-rectify-election-fraud

So, don’t think it’s all over.
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November 7, 2020 9:05am
- PhilBest
  
  But beyond this, the USA does need at some stage to actually investigate the veracity of votes themselves, it is not just a question now of technicalities. An empowered agency needs to scrutinize ALL the votes and determine whether in fact there is an unbreakable connection between individual US citizens entitled to vote, and “the casting of one vote by each of those people”.
  
  It is not so much a question now of disallowing votes that were cast under unconstitutional “new rules”, many of which votes may be real people’s legitimate single vote. The real problem is that there is far too much prima facie evidence that there are no guarantees that apparently “valid” voting forms cannot be created for non-existent people, for illegal immigrants, and created in multiples for the same people in different locations. There does need to be a large-scale audit.
  
  Republicans have rolled over and not called for this, again and again in the case of individual races for Senate and Congress seats, but this is the first time the Republicans might just insist. The past is the past, whatever motivated Democrat machine operatives then (see for example, the Minnesota Senate Seat “vote counting” process likely rigged to put Al Franken in in 2008), there is no doubt that the advent of Bad Orange Man has created new tactical “moral imperatives” for them. If there is no audit now, there probably won’t ever be one.
  
  It is telling that none of the Biden-win proponents are saying “a proper audit now would be a good thing to forestall large-scale beliefs in impropriety”. None of them are saying, sure, bring it on, we are 100% confident you will end up looking stupid. They are saying “WE are 100% confident and that is all the reason everyone needs to not go there”.
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:40am
  - Nermal
    
    You bring up one of the best things Trump has done for the United States – hatred for him has flushed out many who claimed to be neutral or even Republican, but were activists for the left. This includes the MSM, CIA & FBI operatives, as well as RINOs like McCain, Romney & Collins.
    
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    November 7, 2020 1:06pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    They may have to QR code all voters on their foreheads after proof of birth or other entitlement to vote. We enter ours on rolls and those are fixed. The rolls too are purged of the non-living. Any additions after the closing of the rolls are very scrupulously examined before the vote is allowed. The rolls are marked off at the time of voting or at the counting. Then the rolls are compared to see that no plural votes have occurred–there is usually a few each time.
    
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    November 7, 2020 1:57pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Nonsense. The votes were made within the prevailing legal framework, no voter was advantaged or disadvantaged by that – they simply cast their own vote. You advocating trying to take away a constitutional right because of want of form or procedure – that’s cheating.
  
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  November 7, 2020 9:48am
  - amospicton
    
    Surely it’s not hard to understand how mail in voting is less robust. For example, 5 votes arrive at a single household. Domineering father votes one way, wife is submissive to him (but who knows in the privacy of the booth) and the kids couldn’t be bothered. What chance Dad effectively gets 5 votes?
    
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    November 7, 2020 10:19am
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      Although possible, not really often likely. Also, domineering fathers will be present on both sides of the spectrum so unlikely to have much effect on the final results.
      
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      November 7, 2020 5:03pm
  - Fletch
    
    Again – state courts cannot change election law. Only State Legislators. That is why Democrats sent teams into states and went to the state supreme courts and governors to change election laws because Republicans run the legislatures in many of the battleground states and wouldn’t have gone for it.
    
    It is totally against the law and unconstitutional. They can’t do that. Again, refer to Bush v Gore in the 2000 election.
    
    But why did Al Gore ultimately accept the decision in Bush v. Gore?
    
    “The Florida legislature could have (and, in fact, was preparing) to intervene and name a slate of electors if the Florida Supreme Court continued to interfere with the election […] The legislature, which was controlled by the Republican Party in 2000, had absolute authority under the Constitution to choose Florida’s members of the electoral college.”
    
    You see, the legislature doesn’t actually have to let the public vote for College Electors. They do, but they don’t have to. Under the law they can actually pick their own.
    
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    November 7, 2020 10:22am
  - Jimmy White
    
    No doubt they will head to the grave yards and dig up the criminals for voting when dead.
    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/nov/6/pennsylvania-lawsuit-claims-21000-deceased-people-/
    
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    November 7, 2020 1:04pm
- DeepBlue
  
  This is all theoretical, as in Pennsylvania Biden has now surpassed Trump on votes received before or on polling day only. So even if Trump won this argument, he would still lose the count.
  
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  November 7, 2020 10:06am
  - Fletch
    
    He can still go to the Supreme Court to get those votes received after election day invalidated. State Supreme Courts cannot change election law to allow it (which they did). Only the legislatures in the state, many of which are controlled by Republicans. It could be Bush vs Gore all over again.
    
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    November 7, 2020 10:34am
    - Batman
      
      Those votes aren’t even being counted. So Trump would still lose but by a smaller margin.
      
      It would also disenfranchise military and diplomatic voters.
      
      2 13
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      November 7, 2020 10:55am
      - Jimmy White
        
        No Boy Wonder the military and diplomatic corp votes are postmarked the 3rd and have had a dispensation since WWII
        Turn on your brain before you pick up your pen.
        
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        November 7, 2020 1:07pm
    - DeepBlue
      
      Won’t make any difference, except to clarify the law for next time. Biden has won on votes that both parties agree are legal. Would be a different story if Trump was ahead at that point.
      
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      November 7, 2020 11:33am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      No need for late votes, the election wasn’t spontaneous.
      
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      November 7, 2020 3:09pm
Swifty

A bit of Brothers Johnson to get the weekend off to a funky start:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPBDMihPRJA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0bdLdTJdKI
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November 7, 2020 9:11am
- PhilBest
  
  Hey thanks for that! I never heard of Brothers Johnson before! And my driving playlist is made up entirely of stuff like “Up for the Down Stroke”, “Mighty Mighty”, “Me And Baby Brother”, “Cissy Strut”, “Brickhouse”, “Give Up The Funk”, and “Papa Don’t Take No Mess”.
  
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  November 7, 2020 10:04am
  - Swifty
    
    Heh.
    
    Just been listening to Brick House a few minutes ago – a great track.
    
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    November 7, 2020 10:23am
kowtow

The Media Party , feminists and commentariat can make all the noises they like about wimmins’ rights , protecting women etc but when the courts refuse to punish the people most dangerous in the most dangerous way to women , then nothing will change , in fact dangerous criminals will be emboldened and society put in more danger.

‘A teenager who lured his victim to a secluded area and held her by the throat while he raped her has avoided imprisonment.’

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/crime/rape-case-%E2%80%98exceptional%E2%80%99-teen-gets-home-detention
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November 7, 2020 9:34am
- DeepBlue
  
  The left factions are going to become more disjointed and turn against each other soon enough, including within the 65 Labour MPs.
  
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  November 7, 2020 10:07am
  - curry4me
    
    Deep Blue: Yes, remember when National had 67 MPs in 1990? In 1993, Tapsell agreed to be speaker, and Jim Anderton gave them confidence, and supply.
    
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    November 7, 2020 12:44pm
- Tall Man
  
  Had to pay her $5,000. Maybe the judge feels that is a fair rate.
  
  I wonder how his lawyer would feel beeing offered $5,000 for “services” or the judge’s spouse.
  
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  November 7, 2020 11:22am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The offender had himself already saved up that sum towards such an award. He was regarded by the court as being remorseful and really distressed too by the whole event.
    
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    November 7, 2020 1:48pm
    - Tall Man
      
      The rape or the getting caught part?
      
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      November 7, 2020 4:11pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  He was still suffering a previous blow to his head and the report suggests that the Court did not consider him in a condition to be imprisoned.
  Obviously a tough case for all and thankfully rare.
  
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  November 7, 2020 1:43pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Bullshit.
    
    He will recover from the blow to the head, the victim will never recover.
    
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    November 7, 2020 4:11pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Thank goodness for Covid-19

It might halt all the CO2-emitting plane travel that climate-change researchers have been indulging in.

Use of aviation by climate change researchers:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0959378020307676?via%3Dihub

Key finding: Climate change researchers, especially professors, fly more than other researchers.
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November 7, 2020 9:35am
- KevO'Brien
  
  They like to smell the CO2 and CH4, perhaps a whiff of NO in an O3 reduced zone.
  
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  November 7, 2020 10:10am
- JackRabbit
  
  When will the public wake up to the fact that the key Man-made Climate Change Proponents don’t actually believe in Man-made Climate Change. It is simply yet another pulpit upon which to tell everyone else how to live in a way that they can profit from.
  
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  November 7, 2020 10:19am
lazza

Fraud … “Smaud”

The equal opportunities for nefarious and illegal USA electoral activities are … THE SAME FOR BOTH.

End of story OK?
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November 7, 2020 9:53am
- Nermal
  
  The depth of your argument has left me stunned
  
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  November 7, 2020 1:09pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  From the negative feedback you received it is possible to deduce that many of the right-leaning KB’rs don’t think that right-leaning people can act nefariously. So funny!
  
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  November 7, 2020 5:12pm
Swifty

Hendrix, Maui, 1970 – just six weeks or so before his death:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFfnlYbFEiE

Awesome footage.
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November 7, 2020 9:57am
- Fletch
  
  Coulda been shot yesterday…. 😲
  
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  November 7, 2020 10:42am
I remember when

Primary sector labour
800 Dairy Vacancies
575 Registered for Go Dairy courses
72 Go Dairy graduates
35 Completed course and found employment
6100 RSE workers available for the start of the summer fruit harvest
16,000 Usual number of RSE workers available for the start of harvest
13,000 Working Holiday visa holders
70,000 Usual number of Working Holiday visa holders
170 Extra Vets needed
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November 7, 2020 9:58am
- Tall Man
  
  Lazy bastards collecting welfare while breeding and smoking P or dope……Thousands.
  
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  November 7, 2020 4:09pm
Maggie Pie

Just back home from Tennis.
Can’t believe how all the girls are sooo obsessed with what’s going on in America these days!
Before Trumpy came along, the last time anybody even mentioned it, was when the DNA test on Monica’s dress proved positive for Bill’s semen.
But I think it was pretty much agreed that the ones we really feel sorry for are Melania and Ivanka.
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November 7, 2020 10:09am
- JackRabbit
  
  “when the DNA test on Monica’s dress proved positive for Bill’s semen.”
  
  Hasn’t changed much Maggie.
  
  Now its about who pays the ‘bill’ for testing “seaman” for Covid-19.
  
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  November 7, 2020 10:29am
Sares

Earn money on paid surveys.

https://www.ysense.com/?rb=59429643
4 2
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November 7, 2020 10:29am
Swifty

Dogs – gotta love ’em:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9nQVdmPps
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November 7, 2020 10:30am
Roberta

Has anyone else been phoned this week by someone from ‘Otago University’ wanting to know your opinion on what should happen to your estate when you die?
Cindy might have said No to a wealth tax pre-election, but is this because an inheritance tax is on her radar instead?
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November 7, 2020 11:22am
- Tall Man
  
  Good for the insurance industry with a resurgence of whole of life policies returning. Estate planning will cover any dead granny tax nicely.
  
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  November 7, 2020 12:54pm
- Jimmy White
  
  Fixed. I don’t own my house, my family trust does. But I have a right (with no loop holes) to occupy until I die or my family get me euthanised.
  
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  November 7, 2020 1:13pm
  - Tall Man
    
    You may find from January that your trust isn’t as tight as you think.
    
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    November 7, 2020 4:08pm
tranquil

Hi all –

Just a bit of “blowing climate-change panic out of the water here…… 🙂

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/08/27/new-confirmation-that-climate-models-overstate-atmospheric-warming/

That article shows that **all** climate models have **massively** overstated the actual rate of warming (which is 0.15 degrees per decade or 1.5 degrees per century (if I’ve read the article correctly).

Not only that, but the “CO2 climate sensitivity measure” has bee **rapidly** trending downwards in the last few years, as shown here –
https://notrickszone.com/2017/10/16/recent-co2-climate-sensitivity-estimates-continue-trending-towards-zero/

That page has a link to a list of 120 papers with very low climate sensitivity estimates –
https://notrickszone.com/50-papers-low-sensitivity/

Also, see here –
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/08/10/the-diminishing-influence-of-increasing-carbon-dioxide-on-temperature/

Quote – “IPCC Published reports, (TAR3), acknowledge that the effective temperature increase caused by growing concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere radically diminishes with increasing concentrations.”

( I have seen an analogy used for this of a window being painted over. Once you get to a certain level of paint coverage, any additional paint will have very little effect on the amount of light getting through. )

So, anyone who thinks “we’re all gonna die” if the mean global temp rises by 2 (or even 5!) degrees in 100 years’ time may want to have a chat with the Aborigines and Arabs – both of whom have been living in 35 degrees for tens of thousands of years……….

Oh, and more good news – the Sahel has been rapidly greening in the last few decades and the world wheat crop is breaking records –
https://www.foodbusinessnews.net/articles/16031-world-poised-to-harvest-largest-wheat-crop-ever-in-2020-21

( Gee, that “awful nasty CO2” ay………. 🙂 )

As for the disaster doom-mongering, check out the graph of “global reported natural disasters by type” –
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/08/03/climate-disaster-confusion/

Extreme temperature, extreme weather and drought are all trending **down** in the last 20 years!

Oh and check this out for a good laugh!
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/10/06/earths-optimal-temperature/

Quote – “From the “whatever happened to the 1.5* C tipping point” school of climate, researchers have identified 24 planets that are likely to be more suitable for life than Earth.

What is especially eye-catching is the criteria behind why these planets are considered super-habitable: “older, a little larger, slightly warmer and possibly wetter than Earth.” Say what? How can warmer & wetter be better for life on Earth? Aren’t we near a tipping point where another 0.5* C of warming becomes an existential threat to humanity, as claimed by certain climate scientists, news outlets, and politicians?
– end quote
( What about the Aborigines and Arabs who have lived in 35 degrees for tens of thousands of years? – tranquil )

Quote –
“Even more intriguing is what the researchers (the lead author of which is a geobiologist) consider to be “slightly warmer”. This is clarified farther into the article where it states “a mean surface temperature of about 5 degrees Celsius (or about 8 degrees Fahrenheit) greater than Earth, together with the additional moisture, would be also better for life.” Wow!!”
– end quote

Somewhere, I think I’ve got a link showing that the average temperature and CO2 level over the last 500 million years were both higher than today (I think the average CO2 level was about **three times** higher) but I can’t find the link.
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November 7, 2020 11:40am
- Don Beckett
  
  Thanks tranquil.
  Much of your info has been put up on here over the past few years. In particular, CO2 levels, of which increased levels improve plant growth & foster greening of the earth – as with the Sahel.
  The ideal concentration is around 500 ppm.
  And if you check Tony Heller at realclimatescience.com you will see how the various organistaions have been falsifying data.
  
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  November 7, 2020 7:37pm
oldfella

This story will be huge, if true. The ‘indestructible’ Putin might be mortal after all. What it means for Russia, and the rest of the world, stay tuned…
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/russian-president-vladimir-putin-to-resign-amid-parkinsons-concerns-reports-claim/DVQAUV73ZNQRGT6RZWKG76XYOU/
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November 7, 2020 11:54am
- Maggie Pie
  
  He’s a cunning Fox
  
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  November 7, 2020 1:16pm
- Jimmy White
  
  If you believe the Failing newspaper I have a bridge to sell you. https://bridgetonowhere.co.nz/
  
  https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2020-11-06/kremlin-denies-reports-putin-is-ill-planning-to-resign
  
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  November 7, 2020 1:16pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2duF6WD620

Chinas Foreign Reserves Rapidly Depleting.

More woes for the presitator. So much for self-reliance. They
still need oil, and iron. Exports are dipping. That used to pay the
bills. Now, not so much. Trump tarrifs, and the CCP virus are
the main culprits. Also the de-coupling trend. The EU isn’t
very interested in a trade deal either. Do your bit by leaving the
Made in China stuff on the shelf. Or, you could send the
presitator $20 / sarc.
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November 7, 2020 12:18pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPzUxp5er8Q

Why Trump Will TRIUMPH in PA and WIN the ELECTION!

The Biden leads are all razor thin. Trump is confident he will win AZ, GA,
and, NC. Many military, and deep red county votes are yet to be counted.
There’s lots of obfuscation from the MSM. The PA lawsuit aims to get any
unverified, or illegal votes. If they don’t have a paper trail, they get thrown out.
Trump exceeded Obamas 2012 votes there. Under PA law, ballots received after 8pm on election are invalid. Ballot dumps always favour the Dems. If tampering is proved,
all the mail in ballots are invalidated. The PA Supreme Court violated the constitution
by changing the law. Only State Legislatures can do it. Act 77 is illegal. Republicans
are seeking a review. SCOTUS is considering it.
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November 7, 2020 12:19pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbN2D9gO4-o

Penn Whistle blower on Record.

Project have persuaded the whistle blower to go on
Record with his allegations. More to come.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=By7yNZsa8x0

2nd PA USPS whistleblower: Postmaster ordered late ballots picked up; thinks they will be BACKDATED

Now, there’s another whistle blower. This time back dated ballots are the issue.
James Malia was the supervisor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9JwibjEMcw

Postal worker accused of stealing ballots, other mail.

A West Seneca postal worker stole mail. The worker was stopped leaving the wrong
exit. Postal ballots, and other items were found. The worker has no further access
to the mail. He could spend five years in jail if convicted.
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November 7, 2020 12:19pm
Catgurl13

These woman should be sent back. They have no skills we need, and have most likely broken up with partner who’s visa they are coming in on. Now we are stuck with them.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/300152207/immigration-nz-facilitating-abuse-of-migrant-women-who-cant-leave-abusive-partners-without-being-deported
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November 7, 2020 12:21pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  I believe that the Women’s Refuges for these people are the busiest in the country
  
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  November 7, 2020 3:12pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    They often want NZ not the man anyway, silly men.
    
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    November 7, 2020 7:24pm
- Tall Man
  
  We have enough abusive people born here without importing more. Send their husbands back as well.
  
  We need a “good character” clause in all migrant visas. Fuck up, then fuck off.
  
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  November 7, 2020 4:05pm
- artemisia
  
  Half of applications from such women are approved. That is buried in an article that makes it look like they are all deported and that INZ are callous and trying to get them out of the country asap.
  
  It is quite probable that they would be better looked after among family anyway, rather than in a strange country with only welfare to support them.
  
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  November 7, 2020 4:32pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….

Trumpy warns in a Tweet that…. “Joe should not wrongfully claim the Presidency in the face of legal proceedings which are only just beginning”
9 4
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November 7, 2020 1:14pm
Jimmy White

Sorry Maggie but…Not for long
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2020/11/06/twitter-censors-6-trump-posts-in-24-hours/

Big tech have their donations to defend so they can get payback from Biden
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November 7, 2020 1:18pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

From my Facebook ‘Boaters for Trump’ group.
DIVORCE AGREEMENT
THIS IS INCREDIBLY WELL-PUT, AND I CAN HARDLY BELIEVE IT’S WRITTEN BY A STUDENT!!! WHATEVER HE RUNS FOR, I’LL VOTE FOR HIM.
Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, Marxists, and Obama supporters, et al:
We have stuck together since the late 1950s for the sake of the kids, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has clearly run its course.
Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all, so let’s just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.
Here is our separation agreement:
Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by land mass, each taking a similar portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy! Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets, since both sides have such distinct and disparate tastes.
—We don’t like redistributive taxes, so you can keep them.
–You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU.
–Since you hate guns and war, we’ll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA, and the military.
–We’ll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and the coal mines, and you can go with wind, solar, and bio-diesel.
–You can keep Oprah, Whoopi, Bill Maher, Michael Moore and Rosie O’Donnell. You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all five of them.
–We’ll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart, and Wall Street.
–You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless, homeboys, hippies, druggies, and illegal aliens.
–We’ll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEOs, and rednecks.
–We’ll keep Bill O’Reilly and Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood.
–You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we’ll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us.
–You can have the peaceniks and war protesters.
–When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we’ll help provide them security.
–We’ll keep our Judeo-Christian values.
–You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness, and Shirley McLaine. You can also have the UN., but we will no longer be paying the bill.
–We’ll keep the SUVs, pickup trucks, and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Volt and Leaf you can find.
–You can give everyone health care if you can find any practicing doctors.
–We’ll keep “The Battle Hymn of the Republic” and “The National Anthem.”
–I’m sure you’ll be happy to substitute “Imagine,” “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing,” “Kum Baya,” or “We Are the World.”
–We’ll practice trickle-down economics and you can continue to give trickle-up poverty your best shot.
–Since it often so offends you, we’ll keep our history, our name, and our flag.
Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other like-minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I’ll bet you might think about which one of us will need whose help in 15 years.
Sincerely,
John J. Wall
Law Student and an American
P.S. Also, please take George Clooney, Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin Short, Charlie Sheen, Barbra Streisand, and (Hanoi) Jane Fonda with you.
P.P.S. And you won’t have to press 1 for English when you call our country.
Forward This Every Time You Get It !
Let’s Keep This Going, Maybe Some Of It Will Start Sink in.
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November 7, 2020 4:11pm
- cha
  
  Dude’s been pissing and moaning since 1999.
  
  https://web.archive.org/web/20140822210030/http://patriotaction.net/profiles/blogs/hope-john-j-walllaw-student-1
  
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  November 7, 2020 4:36pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Won’t even bother clicking on a dot org
    
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    November 7, 2020 5:49pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    That may be so cha, but quite a number of mellow conservative American I know feel the same way.
    Secession could well be on the horizon sooner than you think. Many Americans will not tolerate a Socialist USA.
    
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    November 7, 2020 7:47pm
arkhad

Biden will be speaking at 4.30 pm. Here is the link. But will it get through moderations in the next 10 mins? https://edition.cnn.com/politics/live-news/election-results-and-news-11-03-20/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1OtCqk3asQFKoSK_AjbzNvuUL1mfc8BbLW-y6pxvjjxbSiDvClUMdvp5s
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November 7, 2020 4:17pm
HeatherW

In the Herald yesterday:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/te-kawerau-a-maki-iwi-buys-campbells-bay-henderson-primary-matipo-and-waterview-schools/XDQOK26WGDXYYK7G7TIJWZ3C5A/
Te Kawerau a Maki has been given a $50-60mil loan over 30 years from ACC (Accident Compensation Corporation) for the land under 4 schools – Campbells Bay (North Shore), Waterview, Matipo and Henderson Primary (West Auckland).
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November 7, 2020 4:22pm
- HeatherW
  
  Just looked at the 2014 deed of settlement – this opportunity to purchase was in that agreement. Seems an “interesting” thing for ACC to fund.
  
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  November 7, 2020 4:30pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  Some mates and I have decent ACC premiums due for payment on 24th November. We were under the misapprehension that it was to fund a sort of accident insurance scheme. But no. The premiums are to go to be lent to some Hori outfit at negligible interest rates.
  I find that disturbing.
  I can see something similar happening to that land at Ihumatao. No taxpayers funds will go into it. Whoopty do! It will be ACC dough going in. That will add further to my depression following Biden’s theft.
  
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  November 7, 2020 4:38pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Biden? How dare you call Jaspinda that?
    
    4 2
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    November 7, 2020 5:53pm
- cha
  
  And?
  
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  November 7, 2020 4:39pm
- Ehlana
  
  I didn’t understand this either HeatherW. It appears that we have sold the land under the schools, so in future will have to pay rent for it.
  
  But as far as I know, state schools haven’t historically paid rent for their premises, so where does the money come from? Do those specific schools get extra money, or will all schools be funded to pay rent in future? What about rates? Are the new owners responsible for buildings too?
  
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  November 7, 2020 5:25pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/123329721/covid19-fewer-than-20-people-got-tracer-app-alert-about-new-auckland-community-case
Well, who would have believed this !
These dickheads in “government” still don’t comprehend that a lot of people in NZ don’t have a smartphone !
Don’t need one !
Can’t afford one !
Don’t WANT one !
And certainly don’t want to write their personal details down on a list for all to see !
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November 7, 2020 5:50pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Tracer is so those bastards know where you are all of the time – even when sleeping.
  Hello China …….
  
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  November 7, 2020 5:55pm
lazza

To all the deluded Trumpsters on this blog, please now explain your support for a man who is beyond contempt … that is, if decency and honesty are still values you recognize.
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November 7, 2020 6:07pm
- Mike
  
  Lack of brains?
  
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  November 7, 2020 7:40pm
- Fletch
  
  The way you feel about Trump?.. That’s how I feel about Biden. The man makes my skin crawl. True. I find Biden completely unlikeable, corrupt, and a smarmy little shit.
  And this act he is putting on – like he is all presidential and patiently wanting for the votes. Like he is all about democracy, etc. He knows. He knows the thing has been rigged in his favour. You can see it in his condescending, patronizing demeanor. His little grin. I have nothing but contempt for him. God help us all if the world has to put up with him for 4 years.
  
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  November 7, 2020 8:53pm
  - Batman
    
    I feel that you’ve really taken the propaganda to heart and it’s causing you distress.
    
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    November 7, 2020 10:31pm
Don Beckett

lazza, you are delusional. Have you looked at the positives that Trump Brought to the USA, r have you simply creamed your jeans at all that CNN, MSNBC, NYT and other have told you?
Get a grip, and look at both sides, and get a balanced view.
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November 7, 2020 7:51pm
tranquil

“Limestone County (Texas) social worker charged with 134 felony counts involving election fraud” –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8JK8ju7gUs

Interesting…….. 🙂
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November 7, 2020 10:03pm
lazza

So Trump is! … decent and honest in your view? I demur.
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November 8, 2020 4:30am

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