About
Contact
Advertise

Facebook
Twitter

May 19, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 May 2020

Like this:

Like Loading…

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment563

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (563)

Login to comment or vote

MT_Tinman

At least recent events have proven one thing: $50b of the grandchildren’s money can buy you an election.
90 2
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:00am
- mjw
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The poll results can be explained by other factors. For example Simon Bridges response to the poll result last night was to criticise the Prime Minister’s hair.
  
  That’s right, he pushed back by criticising her hair. FFS.
  
  29 61
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:09am
  - Isobar
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    He’s just a Dead man walking. National peeps would now be deciding whether to keep him on as the sacrificial lamb or replace him and hope for the best. However lower list MP’s facing being wiped out will not be happy if nothing is done.
    
    18 54
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:26am
    - surfing
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      National are lining up Chris Luxon for the job. It is so obvious.
      
      Covid-19 is the spanner screwing everything up.
      
      NZ has so many tragedies/disasters over the last few years, 2 big earthquakes, white island, chc massacre , now covid-19….
      
      10 46
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 8:38am
      - brett68
        
        Luxon has all these nutty religious views, once that becomes well known he will be unelectable
        
        32 30
        Report
        May 19, 2020 8:56am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Luxon will be a big disaster IMO. Too religious. He’s just not relateable to the electorate.
        
        38 27
        Report
        May 19, 2020 8:56am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Drain the swamp in the Fraser House basement–simonise it.
        
        31 4
        Report
        May 19, 2020 8:57am
      - Isobar
        
        Simon’s imploding has happened to soon for Luxon. Luxon would need a min of one term to be just an MP to get the hang of the politics. So he might be the leader for the election in 2026, but he wont be ready to be ready to be leader for the 2023 election.
        
        If they put him up earlier, he’ll get wiped out.
        
        So there is a chance for another person with in National to step up. It has to be someone that can relate to the centre and the swing voters.
        
        19 4
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:03am
      - barnacle bill
        
        @Simon G
        As well he will always be seen as J Keys boy.
        
        Ad that will become a big handicap for Luxon
        
        2 5
        Report
        May 19, 2020 10:49am
      - rererangihirihiri
        
        He was in charge of a state owned monopoly. How hard can that be?
        I mean I’d never make fun of a little man with a bald head because I have one myself, but ‘ee’s only got 1 eye!
        
        5 5
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:36pm
    - jaysper
      
      Nobody will want to wrest this poison chalice from Bridges.
      Collins will wait till after the election to shank him.
      
      15 35
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 8:43am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        You’re all agog–letter writers to their pens. When money is not sufficient to topple depression and the leader gives in what then?
        Some learn from history others try to produce it or are shot through by it.
        
        22 4
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:01am
      - Isobar
        
        This is probably true but will be a missed opportunity from National if they go with Collins, the public in general just do not like her. There has got to be a better pick. National under Collins would still lose in 2023.
        
        The Mueller / Kaye ticket however, could just be in with a chance. But it wont be easy.
        
        13 9
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:06am
      - Jack5
        
        Hell, is old Whale Oil active on Kiwiblog today supporting his mate, Collins?
        
        She’s yesterday’s rising star, Whale.
        
        13 3
        Report
        May 19, 2020 10:43am
      - JibberJabber
        
        Nonsense, Collins as much as I like her and is a proven performer in politics is tainted by her past association with Slater and that stench will never go away, like he said himself often “never hug a corpse” he was the dead man, he just didn`t know it.
        Luxon possibly will drive people away from National once people realise he`s just another Tamaki in a cheaper suit.
        
        6 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 12:58pm
  - burt
    
    Absoludely, the punishment for having a banned book is execution not re-education.
    
    19 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:44am
    - Jack5
      
      Burt, Jacindarella’s pronounciation of the letter “t” as a “d” seems to be catching on among some of her media devotees. Even heard from one of the weather reporters.
      
      Next, “th” will be axed and we will watch the “wedder” repord.
      
      12 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:56am
  - SmokerGuy
    
    That’s the point though, even a comment like that which would be fine if a popular leader said it is under scrutiny. Basically it is at the point now that there is criticism on everything he says, difficult to win an election when it gets to that point unfortunately.
    
    17 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:35am
    - sharont
      
      It is not going to matter who is National’s leader because people will vote either National or Labour. People are already that polarised. As Mike Hosking said today if National panics and rolls Bridges they will have 4 months and 3 years to ponder whether they did the right thing. I think Simon is the best on offer. Judith Colllins is the Nat that Labour would love to see as leader of National. Amy Adams is way too soft. My view is stick with Bridges and pump out the policy. It will be a close election but National by a nose.
      
      4 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 4:32pm
- Tall Man
  
  While not looking good at the moment, I don’t believe it is in the bag yet.
  
  Look at the quality of the labour trolls posts on here. Their malice is not dissipating and will flow onto the swing voter.
  
  Once the real facts start to emerge there will be a flood as “media” seek to be the first to reveal the next big covid lie.
  
  Will that be enough to bring out the centre right voter, I think so but I am an optimist and correctly assessed the US in 2016, the UK in 2019 and Australia in 2019.
  
  Never underestimate the ability of lefty sycophants to turn voters away in droves.
  
  57 8
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:00am
  - mjw
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    That’s not a bad argument Tall Man. You’ve got a point. But for it to come to pass, the lefty trolls would have to be worse that the righty trolls.
    
    The problem there is that righty trolls occupy all the talk radio (not to mention political leadership of National and Act), so there will be no shutting them up. Every month, their abusive ways turn off more and more swing voters. And there are plenty of angry volunteers like Leo Molloy pitching in to keep frightening the horses.
    
    Unfortunately for the Tories, trolling seems to have become culturally embedded. Switching it off will be like getting a supertanker to turn around and return to port.
    
    8 38
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:37am
    - Tall Man
      
      Please show me where a “righty troll” is given “space” on a left wing blog.
      
      I’ll admit I do look at the standard every month or so but I have yet to see any post that even the most rabid lefty could label as “rightist”.
      
      Sure on here, in your mind, we are probably all “righty trolls” but surely if we are in a “right wing bubble” who are we trolling and if the answer is no one then how can you label us as trolls?
      
      21 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:06am
    - Lance
      
      Better tell Boris Johnson that. Since there are no Tories in NZ, except in the minds of cloth cap pommies dreaming of the 1970’s mass strikes.
      
      13 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:39am
    - lifesgood
      
      mjw, we are not the UK, we do not have tories. Showing your true colours. And, for your information, no one does trolling like the left. How much does Fraser House pay you, as a matter of interest
      
      15 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:59am
      - sam green
        
        How much is Farrar paid? Shit question I know. What makes yours any better?
        
        2 16
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:35pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      ‘Frightening the horses’ suggests that there is nothing to be frightened about, that is so not the case.
      We need to be very afraid of the cunning of this government.
      
      9 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 12:51pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    But you cannot win against GOD aka Jacinda.
    
    7 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:48am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      I thought that God was verboten? Sychophants shouldn’t count nor should Jacinda, if she was any good in her own right would we have to be told all of the time, rise, and fall on your own merits, Jacinda. I bet you can’t and won’t.
      
      9 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 12:54pm
  - freethinker
    
    TM – Largely agree with you as many will just keep quiet take the money/take it on the chin and reward accordingly 19/9/2020. The biggest issue for National is not Simon’s appearance or delivery its policies and failure to repeal lousy laws, hold accountable the bureaucrats/Police etc is a negative. There are many votes to be had from the Farmers, Landlords, Gun Owners & small business owners plus those who rely on them for their living and National are doing nothing visible to appeal to them. Increasingly I speak to people who like me will vote National electorate and party vote ACT – with 10 + ACT MP’s National will be more honest and be forced to adopt more common sense policies – repeal 5 laws/regulations for every new one and watch the Kiwi No 8 wire adaptability power the economy to success – again.
    
    9 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:49am
    - Tall Man
      
      100% agree.
      
      Well put.
      
      0 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:32pm
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    It’s funny.
    
    The righties think the lefties are all trolls. The lefties think the righties are all trolls.
    
    They’re all wrong. Having a different opinion to you and stating it is not trolling.
    
    The funny thing is, I can go back in time on The Standard and The Daily Blog and there are multitudes of posts claiming that when the real facts emerge the country will swing away from John Key and back to Labour. And it didn’t happen for a long time.
    
    This is the ebb and flow of politics. The public are fickle. It’s fascinating how the same things are said over and over again by supporters of one of the sides when their side isn’t doing well.
    
    Nats will have their day again. Just not now.
    
    8 21
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:51am
    - Tall Man
      
      Cue trolling …
      
      “claiming that when the real facts emerge the country will swing away from John Key and back to Labour”
      
      “Nats will have their day again. Just not now.”
      
      Now you may see those as awesome pearls of wisdom but trust me, they aren’t and posting them on a blog where most would view them as drivel is little more than trolling.
      
      At least this blog allows you to reveal the weakness of your thought whereas the standard is populated with sensitive souls who can’t tolerate opposing views, another symptom of the left.
      
      12 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:48am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Bless you Tall Man, your Bulverism remains undaunted. I hope it makes you happy.
        
        2 12
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:33pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      They are needed now more than ever. I have only heard one reference to flip flop recently, the COL flaps around like a fish, not just one flip per flop.
      
      6 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 12:57pm
  - kwkiwigirl
    
    Agreed I don’t know anyone in my circle who is a National voter who’s decided to vote Labour next election. Agreed. Lots of Labour trolls on here. Personally I wouldn’t bother going to this blog if I were going to vote Labour. Must be market researchers for Labour on here.
    
    9 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 2:22pm
    - Tall Man
      
      “Personally I wouldn’t bother going to this blog if I were going to vote Labour”
      
      I can’t agree more.
      
      I don’t see the point of proving your stupidity on a daily basis, much like the 1pm idiot show but hey, I’m not a lefty.
      
      1 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 4:16pm
- Jack5
  
  Lefty trolls joined panic arses on Kiwiblog last night, and perhaps this morning, and the political hysteria continues.
  
  It was inevitable that Jacindarella would go through the top of the popularity chart after her strong PR performance in the unfinished pandemic, and being so thoroughly cheered on by the arch-Left, feminista-dominated, media.
  
  But the real contest’s just beginning: the economic dive, the job losses, the falling property values.
  
  Most politicians are driven egoists, and no surprise some within National are eyeing Bridges’s back for the best place for their daggers.
  
  Well fuck them. You don’t change leaders during a disaster.
  
  Some Kiwiblog posts have been Leftist saboteurs spreading their political poison, but the posts of some usually Right-wing posters have been very disappointing. Have they succumbed to the Leftist media rapture? My message for them: wake the fuck up! Get off your knees and into the fight.
  
  23 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:28am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yep; with regards to this poll, taken in pretty exceptional circumstance, I’m sure Steve Hansen would urge National to “flush the dunny and move on” 😀
    
    11 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:46pm
  - Akarak
    
    Apparently red herrings are on special at Bellamy’s this week.
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:15pm
krazykiwi

In an unexpected move, the Permanent Commission of Enforcement has today issued an apology to the family of a woman recently executed for having overdue library books. In a written statement Supreme Leader Ardern noted that an administrative oversight meant that the requested gluten free (GF) pie was not available for prisoner Mary Z Druker’s (10296718) last meal. “We deeply regret this situation. This type of unkindness is unacceptable, and I will be taking this up with relevant officials”. Her oblique refence set off alarm bells at the School Lunches SoE, the organisation that recently won the All of Government tender for Last Meals. We contacted the Piemaster General for comment, but Ms Wood’s office said that she was unavailable.

The story took another embarrassing twist when it was learned that the overdue library book was none other than George Orwell’s hate-speech filled text “1984”. These had been removed from libraries 18 months ago, and subsequently burnt in what Commission for Re-Education officials gleefully described as a “bonfire that could be seen from space”. Quite how one copy remained available for loan is a question that remains unanswered, but Commission officials have set about contacting previous borrowers to organize their attendance at one of the newly refurbished Chatham Island education facilities.

ENDS
93 6
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:00am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I think you need help mate. You’ve crossed over into delusional.
  
  7 81
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:26am
  - Aunty
    
    Good news, Simon, you’ll no longer be alone!
    
    59 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:28am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Oh hahaha. I take it as a source of inestimable pride that a right wing nutjob like yourself thinks I am deluded.
      
      7 56
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 8:57am
      - Tall Man
        
        Can a mod please explain why “right wing nutjob” is not abuse but others have been deleted/warned/banned for much less?
        
        48 8
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:02am
      - Aunty
        
        I don’t think it. I know it! It’s evident for all the world to see.
        
        23 7
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:04am
    - Don Beckett
      
      This country is sleepwalking into a socialist state, viewing the latest polls. This bunch of incompetents will have us achieve their Nirvana – the South Pacific Venezueland.
      
      God help us.
      
      43 6
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:01am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        I don’t think it’s marketed as socialism (although plenty out there seem proud to wear it – esp. younger ones who genuinely think it’s a panacea and have absolutely no concept of its failings).
        
        Cindy’s succeeded in branding herself as New Age kindness
        
        17 2
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:49am
  - Crisplion
    
    … and you, Simon, have crossed the line into utterly humourless.
    
    34 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:51am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      You assume I had a sense of humour to start with Crisplion. If by sense of humour you mean I like to attack the prime minister on the way she speaks, or make fun of the way she looks, or make jokes about how she used to work in a fish and chip shop…
      
      you get my point? What passes for humour on this site is predominantly spite and juvenile rubbish. I’m rapt you don’t think I have a sense of humour because it means I don’t think like you.
      
      5 24
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:54am
      - Crisplion
        
        For my part I’m delighted not to think like you, if all you can come up with are straw-man examples and a (subtle) ad hominem directed at me.
        
        Krazy’s post invoked none of the boring tropes that you mention. It was in my view, clever satire. That’s why I think you’re humourless, although I do take your point that perhaps you never did have a sense of humour, so I stand corrected on that one.
        
        9 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 12:08pm
  - freethinker
    
    I have pity for you not having sufficient intelligence to recognize the sarcasm and parody.
    
    7 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:53am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      There we go with that nonsense about how right wing politics is a sign of superior intelligence…
      
      1 13
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:35pm
- Liberty
  
  Down Tickers
  Dear leaders little helpers are seriously lacking in a sense of humor.
  
  48 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:44am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    So how do you explain the downticks I receive for having a left-leaning opinion then?
    
    7 44
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:57am
    - Tall Man
      
      Calling someone a “nutjob” doesn’t endear you to others maybe?
      
      Calling the writer of a piece of satirical prose “delusional” doesn’t win friends. Who would have thought …….
      
      42 6
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:06am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        How did calling the electorate ‘deplorables’ pan out?
        
        Remind me again. I haven’t forgotten, I just want to hear you say it.
        
        24 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:33am
      - Tall Man
        
        Was that directed at “moi” Paulus?
        
        I do recall thinking lefties are “deplorable” but don’t recall enunciating the thought.
        
        4 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:51am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Sorry Tall Man, I think Hillary Clinton owns “deplorables”.
        
        5 6
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:36pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        I dunno. You are pretty free and easy with psych evaluations. Seems to endear you to KB people.
        
        How’s the list of deranged offshore politicians coming on?
        
        0 4
        Report
        May 19, 2020 4:44pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Not you TM, I like your stuff in the main. SG’s, not so much, if at all, not at all.
        
        1 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 5:34pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Thanks Paulus, thought not but cue the idiots.
        
        0 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:34pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      That’s completely different…
      
      7 32
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:11am
      - alwyn
        
        I had to give you an uptick for that MnM.
        That is one of the few witty replies you have managed to come out with.
        I hope it was intentional.
        
        9 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:42am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Because your far left opinions are wrong and delusional? That you think you’re left-leaning shows just how delusional you are.
      
      7 5
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:48am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Again, that fact that I disagree doesn’t mean I’m delusional.
        
        Krazykiwi’s piece wasn’t satire, it was a pure slippery slope logical fallacy masquerading as satire. And as such, it was quite delusional.
        
        4 22
        Report
        May 19, 2020 10:56am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Definitely satire, Simon. If I was going to do “slippery slope logical fallacy masquerading as satire” I would have written something about Police being authorised for warrantless, forced entry into homes, or airport baggage scanner operators being authorised to stop me in the street and demand my identity details.
        
        9 2
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:42am
    - Liberty
      
      Simon Gotlieb
      It is an interesting Question. Why are people left leaning?
      
      There grandfather voted labour in 1935
      Labours core voter.
      Professional state tit sucker.
      Closely linked to entitled.
      Indoctrinated by the state education system. TVone, National radio.
      Hi support for labour in teens until thirty something.
      Then they have a revelation that there is a real world.
      It is very much like Kittens are born labour with their eyes shut.
      And become National when their eyes open.
      
      9 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:50am
      - Tall Man
        
        I recall many voting for WFF to boost their wallets. When questioned, they all denied it was welfare.
        
        It was one of the worst pieces of votes buying ever seen and it came from a desperate labour party.
        
        Those now trapped have little chance of escaping the welfare trap.
        
        8 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:53am
      - Ian Boag
        
        @Lanky
        
        I recall many voting for WFF
        
        How many? Ran some sort of a survey did you?
        
        In the USA they call it the “Earned Income Tax Credit”. I think the Poms call theirs the “In Work Tax Credit” ….
        
        1 3
        Report
        May 19, 2020 4:46pm
  - G152
    
    Grocery shopping this morning and I ran into a cashier who was doing the good work for dear leader.
    Bishop Brians got a sainthood to confer
    
    13 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:59am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    God knows why, you have to laugh at the state of governance in this country, they hold their ‘leader’ to such a low standard.
    
    4 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:04pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Very funny and bang on, except for one jarring mistake. There’s simply no way the Supreme Dear leader (PBUH) would say “We deeply regret this situation. This type of unkindness is unacceptable, and I will be taking this up with relevant officials.”
  
  I suggest it would be more along the lines of:
  
  “I’m aware that a complaint was made and we have a process to go through. I’m not going to jepradise the integrity of that process by commenting prematurely. Once the working group has met to form a committee and they go through the process, I expect you’ll all be distracted by something else. Look! A puppy!”
  
  13 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 12:18pm
mikenmildagain

Happy 75th birthday to Pete Townshend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN5zw04WxCc
22 16
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:03am
- Tony Stuart
  
  How many times has his right arm swung in a circular motion while he has been playing his guitar; brilliant musician.
  
  21 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:07am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    As a musician, I don’t really rate Pete Townshend as a guitar player. John Entwhistle was a far better player in the band. But damn, as a songwriter he was amazing.
    
    8 24
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:17am
    - plc
      
      As an investigative reporter there are still a number of questions though
      
      14 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 8:29am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        I understand he reached out to our PM to resolve his ‘investigation’ problem and she was most helpful.
        
        Her advice was, ‘ignore, deny, dismiss and get a bigger office carpet’
        
        20 3
        Report
        May 19, 2020 8:57am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        You’re referring to the kiddie porn allegations I take it?
        
        5 21
        Report
        May 19, 2020 8:58am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Thanks for your thoughts Simon, plenty of other noteworthy musicians do rate him…
      
      16 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 8:57am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Don’t get me wrong Suze, I really rate him as a songwriter. I just don’t think, compared to his peers, that he was that great a guitarist. Good, yes, but not great.
        
        3 6
        Report
        May 19, 2020 12:20pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Maybe that explains the flow of “success” and why it is still passing you by.
      
      16 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:08am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        I doubt that. By my own terms, I am very successful. However, I define success as something different to amassing more money than the next person.
        
        4 13
        Report
        May 19, 2020 10:58am
      - Tall Man
        
        So is your “inability to amass money” the driving force of your ardernism?
        
        All I can say is make your own money, leave mine alone.
        
        3 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 4:20pm
  - Fletch
    
    I am sure that I read he once impaled his hand on the whammy bar doing that….
    
    4 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:38pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The Who’s Won’t Get Fooled Again is both a favourite retro-track, and not-so-secret prayer for our nation come 19th September
  
  27 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:09am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    You better you better you bet!
    
    10 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:48am
- KevO'Brien
  
  B. diversion again.
  
  4 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:04am
Tomtoddy

A friend of mine believes people who want to vote in general elections should have to pass an exam first. It’s nver going to happen but it has merit conceptually given the way so many voters fall into the hole of backing whoever is getting media coverage.
35 4
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:03am
- mjw
  
  This is why I can’t understand the Tory criticism of the left as being ‘elitist’. A common theme on kiwiblog recently has been how the voters are stupid, don’t know what’s good for them, should be guided by those who are better than them.
  
  In short – elitism.
  
  To be fair I don’t think this is present in the National caucus so much. And I do get the frustration that comes from being down in the polls. Still, elitism isn’t the answer.
  
  14 41
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:15am
  - Swifty
    
    It is not elitist to be correct.
    
    34 11
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:21am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      I sense a bit of confirmation bias in this response. Sorry, disagreement with your opinion is not, unfortunately for you, an indication of lack of intelligence, no matter how much you try to convince yourself.
      
      8 24
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 8:55am
      - Swifty
        
        “disagreement with your opinion is not, unfortunately for you, an indication of lack of intelligence…”
        
        WTF?
        
        Please show me exactly where I said “disagreement with me shows a lack of intelligence”.
        
        12 2
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:10am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        mjw said that Kbers say voters who vote for the government are stupid, and this was elitism.
        
        You said that it wasn’t elitism if it was correct.
        
        Therefore logic would dictate that you believed that people who voted for this government were stupid.
        
        This is purely led by your bias towards a party which is not the government, and clearly indicates that you believe that people that don’t agree with your political opinions suffer from a lack of intelligence.
        
        3 14
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:01am
      - Swifty
        
        “Therefore logic would dictate that you believed that people who voted for this government were stupid.”
        
        You are incorrect; not only did I not write that, I didn’t even think it.
        
        Maybe you suffer from the very same confirmation bias you frequently accuse others of.
        
        6 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 12:02pm
  - Nukuleka
    
    Who on earth is this ‘Tory’ you write of? Here in NZ we never refer to National Party supporters as ‘Tories’. It’s a term we tend to associate with the UK. Bit out of touch with NZ there, mjw.
    
    53 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:26am
    - MCos
      
      More commonly referred to as ‘Nats’, but most people understand the ‘Tory’ reference.
      You, for example.
      
      8 37
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 8:40am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        According to Wikipedia:
        
        A Tory is a person who holds a political philosophy known as Toryism, based on a British version of traditionalism and conservatism, which upholds the supremacy of social order as it has evolved in the English culture throughout history.
        
        Seems about right.
        
        8 34
        Report
        May 19, 2020 8:59am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        No, you use Tory as an insult. A throw back to the cloth cap, forelock tugging, whippet owning, bitter drinking working class of post industrial Britain.
        
        I think you are a tosser, I would not say such a thing but, it does not stop me thinking that you are a tosser all the same.
        
        36 4
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:02am
      - mjw
        
        Well I think Tory is a useful collective noun. It’s not just National, but also ACT, New Conservatives, Mike Hosking, Duncan Garner, Mark Richardson, Leo Molloy, John Banks and so on.
        
        I exclude dpf, who is a genuine John Stuart Mill liberal, if unfortunately (for the left) superb at right wing spin.
        
        6 18
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:42am
      - [moderated]
        
        According to Wikipedia:
        
        A Tory is a person who holds a political philosophy known as Toryism…
        
        Also from that page
        
        In Australia, Tory is occasionally used as a pejorative term…
        
        Tell me more about confirmation bias!
        
        If you call right wing people in New Zealand a Tory you aren’t doing it to be kind.
        
        13 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 10:28am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Probably correct. Some people, however, would be proud to be thought of as a Toryist. Perhaps the better term would be Toryist, rather than Tory.
        
        1 16
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:02am
  - Isobar
    
    What happened to the mantra of no taxation without representation? I guess it only applies when the right team are in power.
    
    23 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:28am
    - Brian Marshall
      
      I agree with that no taxation without representation saying, but would add to that “no representation without taxation”.
      As a net contributor of taxation, I resent net receivers of taxation using me as a piggy bank.
      
      29 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 8:44am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Given that you are in a position of privilege in that you earn more than the average, why do you resent having to give more in return? I don’t understand this mindset – it seems selfish to me.
        
        8 39
        Report
        May 19, 2020 8:52am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        no taxation without representation
        That is in force (for the time being) in NZ. Any taxing Bill requires prior notification to the House before its introduction.
        
        11 2
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:07am
      - Swifty
        
        “As a net contributor of taxation, I resent net receivers of taxation using me as a piggy bank…”
        
        I resent even more political parties using taypayer money to reward their political supporters. A trend which has rapidly gained pace and breadth under this Labour government.
        
        This shows the moral superiority of free enterprise over socialism in that no-one, specifically, is favoured.
        
        Under the Ardern government taxpayers wealth is being systematically stripped and funneled to specific companies, specific industries and specific sectors of both the economy and the population at large – and it is not a coincidence that these are areas rich with influence and potential voters.
        
        Keep a lookout folks – it’ll be a Universal Education Income next. You read it here first.
        
        18 2
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:24am
      - Libertarians are right
        
        Simon – you don’t understand privilege. It isn’t all about money. I’d argue that the truly privileged are those that have never had to work hard or make sacrifices and take risks. Compare our beneficiaries to almost anywhere else in the world and their privilege is astounding. I’m ok with that.
        What I’m not ok with is their wants being used to buy political power. What I’m not ok with is that I’m treated as selfish etc for not wanting to be used as a bank for politicians who want to buy power.
        
        The concept of no taxation without representation is out the window now because those that actually pay net tax don’t actually have representation anymore – their votes are nullified by those that don’t pay net tax.
        
        17 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:56am
      - Swifty
        
        “It isn’t all about money. I’d argue that the truly privileged are those that have never had to work hard or make sacrifices and take risks. Compare our beneficiaries to almost anywhere else in the world and their privilege is astounding. I’m ok with that.
        What I’m not ok with is their wants being used to buy political power. What I’m not ok with is that I’m treated as selfish etc for not wanting to be used as a bank for politicians who want to buy power….”
        
        Beautiful, just beautiful.
        
        6 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 10:04am
      - [moderated]
        
        Given that you are in a position of privilege in that you earn more than the average, why do you resent having to give more in return?
        
        That’s the great thing about percentages, if we had a flat tax rate, we’d still be paying more when earning more. What you want is progressive punitive taxes that mean that not only do you pay more on the same percentage, you then pay a higher percentage. It’s a simple concept that seems to fly right over the heads of those so full of envy that consider that success needs to be punished, not rewarded.
        
        8 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 10:31am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        That’s actually a good argument. 🙂
        
        From where I see it though, all government use the public’s money to buy support – they just do it from different people. Labour could definitely be accused of socialism for the less well-off and National could definitely be accused of socialism for the more well-off.
        
        But they both do it. It just depends on whether you personally think one or the other groups is more worthy. And that’s where the confirmation bias and the privilege comes in.
        
        7 8
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:07am
      - Libertarians are right
        
        Sorry Simon but I disagree. Your position re right wing Govts “buying” votes by giving well off people money etc seems to be based on a fallacy. The money belongs to the people, not the Government. Not taking as much money from people isn’t socialism for the well off.
        I’m against corporate welfare etc and there is a bit of that but that’s systemic to be fair.
        
        National gets accused a lot of not having any ideas etc but it’s because their “vote buying” is effectively to not meddle in our lives as much as Labour. That’s literally the opposite to socialism.
        
        3 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:28am
      - David George
        
        Simon Gotlieb: “you are in a position of privilege in that you earn more than the average”
        
        “The central conservative truth is that it is culture, not politics, that determines the success of a society. The central liberal truth is that politics can change a culture and save it from itself.”
        Daniel Patrick Moynihan
        
        The Unheavenly City leaves the reader in little doubt that only one of Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s two “truths” is actually correct. Culture—the habits of mind, conduct, beliefs, and values—“determines the success of a society,” and that politics is far too limited an enterprise to change the deeply ingrained cultural orientation of those who comprise it. That is a lesson it is never too late to learn.
        https://quillette.com/2020/05/17/return-to-the-unheavenly-city/
        
        0 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:52am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Yes, it was the corporate welfare I was referring to.
        
        0 5
        Report
        May 19, 2020 12:23pm
  - plc
    
    I agree.
    
    It’s easy to say the respondents are stupid or easily led but that’s not the issue.
    
    Simon Bridges has failed in the “likeability” test. More importantly he has failed in the “ideology” test. His response to this will be to edge National further left to compete with Labour.
    
    This is an opportunity for clear demarkation.
    
    Put up a clear plan
    
    Stimulus of productive areas of economy….with a bill $10-20 billion less
    Push the politics of ambition and aspiration – be clear that Labour’s way means “Karen” will have less money in her pocket due to new taxes
    Push the message of legacy – people may not think Labour is so kind when confronted with the debt legacy it leaves for Timmy and Amanda
    
    Stark message as the impact of this response hits
    “Labour isn’t Working”
    “They queued for the supermarket, now they queue for their benefit”
    “Labour – Eventually they’ll run out of other people’s money”
    
    But we won’t see any of that; Bridges will follow Labour left with messages such as:
    “Not quite as bad”
    
    18 9
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:45am
    - Isobar
      
      If he pushes National to the right he will become the right equivalent of Jeremy Corbyn of NZ. Surrounded by people pushing a view that doesn’t resonate with the public.
      
      If anything he needs to save as many jobs of his MP’s as possible. Doing stuff that will spook the electorate even more will be terrible – not to mention wipe out the voting bases their only friends ACT.
      
      7 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:30am
      - plc
        
        If he lurched to the Right, he might start to approach the centre.
        
        National not removing WFF and replacing it with tax cuts at some point between 08-17 shows how far they strayed from their principles of aspiration and ambition.
        
        Why should productive people be penalised for NOT breeding.
        
        9 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:46am
      - Isobar
        
        WFF is one extreme example. However interestingly other right-wing govts around the world are actually starting to implement policies to encourage people to breed currently!
        
        But back to the point, the Key govt knew that getting rid of WFF would be political suicide. They knew it then and this hasnt changed. If Simon came out today and said he will scrap WFF, National might as well say goodbye to all of its current list mp’s.
        
        Sadly for you, the centre has fundamentally and possibly permanently shifted since the 1980’s and it wont be going back any time soon.
        
        0 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:36am
      - plc
        
        If the options are Labour or Labour-lite then NZ is in a downward mediocrity spiral.
        
        National won’t be rewarded with my vote if that is their best offer.
        
        1 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:07pm
      - Isobar
        
        Fair enough, at least with MMP you have options.
        
        0 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:26pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      I agree. Simon Bridges, like most current politicians, has been honed in the art of political compromise, subtly shifting position or phrasing on any given topic.
      
      That’s precisely what we don’t need right now.
      
      New Zealand needs a stark choice: More Jacinda, or a strong team to recover our future. We can’t have both, so choose wisely.
      
      18 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:30am
    - lifesgood
      
      Simon has not failed in the likability test at all but the completely left wing biased MSM keeps telling everyone he is and gullible idiots believe this to be true.
      
      6 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:05am
      - plc
        
        But he has……evidence being his stubbornly low Preferred PM polling
        
        0 2
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:00pm
    - Paulus
      
      I bet after winning the election she will put up GST to 17.5%
      Watch this space
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:27am
      - Michael NZ
        
        no she’ll hurt the productive class first with tax hikes.
        She won’t hurt her voters.
        
        2 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:25pm
  - Komata
    
    MJW@0815
    
    ‘Tory’?
    
    You’d be an expat then?
    
    FYI (and FWIW), the word hasn’t been used in NZ politics for at least 30 years.
    
    Thought you might like to know…
    
    9 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:03am
- kowtow
  
  The fact that alphabetical listings on ballots skew results says it all.
  
  13 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:24am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    I believe that to be more to do with laziness, or overwhelm, than it is to do with stupidity.
    
    To be honest, the majority of the population don’t really give a shit about politics. My wife just doesn’t understand my fascination with this site, and The Standard, where I spend equal time. I read out stuff to her and she rolls her eyes.
    
    So, really, given that the population doesn’t care that much about politics, and doesn’t really have political leanings anywhere like what we do here, it’s hardly surprising that they’ve paid no attention to the candidates (actually they probably got turned off by some scrap right at the start that had us all in thrall), so they end up at the polling booth with no idea, no interest, and just tick merrily away.
    
    22 15
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:45am
    - Gravelroad
      
      If the population “doesn’t care that much about politics” why would the lazy or overwhelmed even bother to disturb their Saturday to find a polling booth to “tick merrily away” at all then, Simon Gotlieb?
      As far as I am aware, it is not compulsory to vote – and yet people still do it.
      Perhaps you would prefer no election process at all?
      
      3 6
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:45am
    - alwyn
      
      “I read out stuff to her and she rolls her eyes.”
      Obviously she has some smart genes.
      Why she puts up with you is hard to understand though.
      
      6 10
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:46am
      - sam green
        
        Why was that comment necessary alwyn?
        
        3 3
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:01am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        alwyn, you don’t know me from Adam, so don’t try that one – it’s argumentum ad hominem of the worst kind.
        Gravelroad – I definitely would not like there to be no election process. What I was trying to do was explain my personal thought on why people seem to be affected by alphabetical listings. I’m scratching my head as to how you determined that interpretation from my thoughts.
        
        2 8
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:10am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I’d be quite happy to extend the vote to younger persons who could pass a civics test. So pass a module at NCEA level 1 and you can vote.
  
  9 31
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:26am
  - BeeJay
    
    Mikey, quite a good idea there, but maybe we should also get all voters to pass a module at NCEA level 1 but would probably lose 30% of voters currently eligible to vote!
    
    21 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:58am
    - Tall Man
      
      30%? Surely you jest 😉
      
      10 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:12am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yeah, I wouldn’t make it a universal test – most Kiwibloggers should keep the right to vote regardless.
      
      11 21
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:13am
      - Libertarians are right
        
        By most you mean you and your comrades right? The rest of us would be fine.
        
        6 3
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:58am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      It would be greater indoctrination by the left.
      
      1 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:26pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Compulsory module for Early Childhood Education.
    
    Once we had property owners as rulers and governors. They had a stake in the outcomes of their decisions. Unseasoned youth were set to gardening or sheep tending. Little has changed.
    
    Those without an understanding of the intricacies of trade, international relations, economics, health and ageing, infrastructure and a hundred and one other complex associated interrelated items cannot execute decisions giving an adequate outcome for any society. Following a rule book has shown the way to disaster because those in power turn the others into their serfs.
    
    Civics classes may feed young idealism. When voting is based on a lolly scramble or a bought press the govt has been corrupted anyway. Do you really want more of the same instead of prosperity and peace?
    
    5 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:26am
    - sam green
      
      Bring back feudalism.
      
      1 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:03am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      I’d go for the Japan model, early years learning to socialise.
      
      2 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:17am
- rouppe
  
  Be careful what you wish for. Labour want “civics” education in schools. There could easily be a test after that course, that has drilled socialist education into our kids.
  
  31 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:29am
- Swifty
  
  If we really wanted to be a better country by being populated with more-informed people making better decisions we should be making economics compulsory at college.
  
  At times like these I sometimes think no single act would do more to improve our nation.
  
  Two days ago I had a polite exchange with a bloke on a social media application. It began with him decrying WEL Networks selling their share of a fibre company offshore and that because the evil capitalists will take the profits offshore, he thought the government should stop it. I simply asked him a few questions about foreign investment and whether the government should ban it all and if so what would be the effects and he just threw up his hands and said “I’m no expert….”
  
  A pity. He seems like a good bloke, just ruled by emotion and without an ability to see the whole picture. Or think through things.
  
  19 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:46am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    There’s merit in this, but it’s not enough. Economics should not be the primary driver for a society. We also need the arts, we need technology, we need ethics – you could make an argument for all of these things to be more important than economics as well. We need to be more educated as a society in a huge amount of things.
    
    8 21
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:01am
    - Tall Man
      
      “We need to be more educated as a society” and you truly believe a labour government would ever do that?
      
      Which party has done it’s best to “dumb down” education over the past 40 years?
      
      “Tomorrow’s schools”, soon to be gone. “Deletion of apprenticeships”, thanks aunty helun. The rise of the NCEA and advancement of NZQA taking education down the toilet.
      
      23 6
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:15am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      First feed yourself and your family, then you can think of arts.
      Production, the subject of economics, is required for basic sustenance and trade for what we do not ourselves make.
      
      14 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:32am
      - Swifty
        
        Exactly KevOB.
        
        Enterprise funds everything else both our ‘must haves’ and our ‘nice to haves’.
        
        Without enterprise and wealth-creation, everything else goes down the gurgler.
        
        4 3
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:40am
    - Gravelroad
      
      “Economics should not be the primary driver for a society”.
      I would rather have a competent government which focuses on establishing a robust economic platform for all.
      Then there are choices.
      Without money there are few choices.
      If economics is not a primary driver for society,what is?
      Where does the money come from to fund the arts, technology and so on?
      
      11 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:38am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Oh God, we could certainly go down an interesting track here. The old adage of knowing the cost of everything, but the value of nothing comes to mind.
        
        Yes, our society has become complete and utter slaves to money. What started as an alias for work in kind has now become the primary focus, and as such, we are ruled by it. Unless we fundamentally changed the entire worldwide economic zeitgeist then you are right – it is the primary driver for society.
        
        If we didn’t have money, we’d probably invent it, or something like it, immediately anyway.
        
        The biggest problem is, the way that money is used in our world – and how personal greed plays too much a part in all that. However, communism and socialism are completely corruptible too. So we’re pretty much stuck with capitalism as an economic model. As they say, it’s the worst model, except for every other one we’ve tried.
        
        We agree that we need to fund our way of life. Sure. There are basic essential needs which must be met for each individual. Beyond that, we have the issue that some people simply want more than others. The trick is in finding a way to reward those who wish to work harder to obtain more than their fellow human without opening up the possibility of exploitation. And that’s where I struggle with the whole money thing – because it thrives on exploitation and inequity.
        
        2 11
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:20am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Totally agree about the ethics, we have no believers in our current governance. They neither seek permission nor apologize.
      
      2 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:31pm
- SpencerArnold
  
  Nice idea in theory (I got my British Citizenship by sitting the ‘Life in the UK’ exam) but all you will be doing is creating a new battleground for the left to populate the exam with their own agenda.
  
  And the “carers” in the community will trot out little Johnny Downs-Syndrome and insist it is his human right to vote. Now do you think Johnny can form a cogent argument about Govt Policy or is he just ticking the box his carer tells him to? (Thereby creating a system of “one person, two votes”).
  
  15 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:03am
- Parnell Gun Club
  
  This is absolutely what should happen. Just like driving a car, no one is denied the right to do so, but public safety requires that drivers must demonstrate a minimal level of competency.
  
  9 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:29am
Maggie Pie

Just got back from taking the dog for a poo down at Bloodworth Park.
The was an Asian woman there selling cheap batteries.
She sells C cells by the seesaw.
62 8
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:04am
- Komata
  
  Maggie@0804
  
  Tardish ‘Oi’!
  
  Thank you
  
  16 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:10am
- G152
  
  Who’d downtick humour?
  
  10 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:01am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Is your poodle electric Maggie Pie?
  
  5 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:23am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Certainly spark into life when you shove a few battery’s up her a*** i suspect!
    
    8 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:39am
Than

In the wake of the disastrous poll result for National, we’re seeing articles talking about this being the end for Simon Bridges. I strongly disagree. Or at least it shouldn’t be. This poll is the result of events completely out of Bridges’ control. Nothing he did caused this, and the result would have been the same under any other National leader.

Labour (and Ardern) have won a popularity lottery here, but it is utterly undeserved. What exactly have Labour done right during this crisis?

They shut the border. Gee, like almost every other country in the world did. Like National would have done if they were in power.

They instituted a lockdown. Again, like every other country in the world, like National would have done.

In terms of the actual details of handling things, this government has been as incompetent on COVID-19 as they have on everything else. The border shutdown and isolation period was basically on an honor system, pathetically weakly enforced. The oh-so-official sounding Alert Levels were a farce, made up in a rush at the last minute. And it’s unclear whether the lockdown was even implemented in a legal way. Not that this mattered to government ministers of course, who freely flouted the rules.

In terms of the broad strokes, sure, the government did the right things. But the actual implementation they stuffed up as badly as everything else they attempt.
81 2
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:11am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I broadly agree that national would not have done anything substantially different. As DPF showed, Ardern is benefiting from a crisis surge of support that same as nearly every democratic leader – the obvious exception being Trump.
  Someone who reads Kiwiblog only might get the idea that the details of the crisis have been badly managed. But that’s a tiny minority who choose a heavily skewed source. I think many others would agree that some things have not been managed well, but that overall the pandemic response has worked, largely because people accepted that it was a crisis and complied with restrictions that the vast majority agreed with.
  
  28 28
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:32am
  - Wangas Feral
    
    Ardern has almost 100% media fawning in adoration. Trump has almost 100% media attacking him. Big difference.
    
    46 6
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:45am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Not so much in the States for Trump. And I don’t necessarily agree with your thoughts on NZ with Ardern either. Again, confirmation bias clouds your judgement.
      
      6 26
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:02am
      - Jack5
        
        Confirmation bias clouds EVERYONE’S judgement, Simon.
        
        5 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 10:47am
    - Isobar
      
      The media fawned over Key as well. I think this is more of a perceived issue then a real one.
      
      2 20
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:09am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        Not sure if I remember any ‘objective’ news presenters having a giggle about taking scones around to John Key’s place in the weekend…
        
        14 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 10:00am
      - lifesgood
        
        Isobar, are you for real? They opposed him at every turn and the hysteria over a playful pony tail tug when everyone in the cafe was just joshing around was beyond belief. The left are bloody great hypocrites. No one on the left cared about the sexually abused young people at a Labour camp or the sexually abused staff who were made to sign secrecy agreements. Utterly shameful, but oh my, a playful pony tail tug and it was the end of the world as we knew it. Then there was the CCP trade deal, protests, marches, strident screeching but, oh goodness, Labour gets in and it is all just wonderful, lets sign the deal. Hypocrites, bloody hypocrites.
        
        16 2
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:14am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        No but there was a whole lot of stuff about having a beer with John. Very similar situation.
        
        2 11
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:21am
      - Isobar
        
        Well i think even pulling pony tails would be difficult to spin positively. That was just plain weird.
        
        But it was, he received heaps of positive coverage after Christchurch and rightly so. What was labour doing during that time? Who knows because no one was interested in covering them. All i remember of labour during that time was David Shearer holding a couple of fish and them changing leaders a heap. Hardly glowing coverage.
        
        Point is – the incumbent governments during a crisis do receive a lot of positive media coverage and certainly get a lot more than they otherwise would.
        
        However Key (and family) certainly loved doing their puff pieces and fluffy media slots as much as anyone.
        
        2 7
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:55am
  - burt
    
    Things have been much better since Napoleon took over, for example food supply is up 300%.
    
    16 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:46am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Napoleon had a good run for a while, but his ambitions killed many millions, and ruined his own country. He still gets a better press than Hitler, though.
      
      10 12
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:14am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Wrong Napoleon ….
        
        2 3
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:36am
      - burt
        
        Funny you should bring up a National Socialist Party leader at this time. All animals are equal Comrade.
        
        10 3
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:39am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I think it would be stretching a point to call Napoleon a national socialist.
        
        1 7
        Report
        May 19, 2020 10:07am
      - Jack5
        
        Milky, I think Napoleon gets a better press than Adolf H. in Russia because the short Corsican demonstrated to them how to beat the latter – stretch out the invader’s supply lines until they fail.
        
        4 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 10:49am
  - Than
    
    The “rally around the flag” effect, sure. And there is no question that this is an aspect of leadership where Ardern has always excelled – as a symbol, somebody for people to rally around in a time of crisis, being the people’s PM. That she does extremely well. We saw that after the Christchurch mosque shootings, after White Island, and again now.
    
    As I said above, I think the government’s handling of this hasn’t been great. National would have done broadly the same things, but much more professionally, competently handled. For example, we might not have had a smart sounding Alert Level system… but The Warehouse would have known whether they were allowed to open, and parents would have had advance notice when schools would be re-opening.
    
    But I agree with what I think Simon Gotlieb is getting at below – right now people are looking for comfort more than policy. And that is Jacinda Ardern’s strength.
    
    (Where I will strongly disagree with him is in saying Bridges’ has politicised this. That’s simply a weak excuse that can be used to dismiss any criticism of the government. The government’s actions during this have been far from perfect, and they should be held accountable for that.)
    
    23 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:09am
  - Tall Man
    
    “largely because people accepted that it was a crisis”.
    
    And therein lies the rub mikey.
    
    If we base our calculations on the 2017 election we clearly see that approx 15% of the voters were awed by the media enhancement of ardern so that’s clearly puts them into the idiot circle. From my discussions with voters well over 50% that claimed to support labour couldn’t list a single genuine labour policy so that gives us another 12% to slip into the idiot circle. Add into green and “what’s in it for wynston” voters, no explanation needed, and we have about 40% inside the idiot circle.
    
    Now if we give the press a little extra % because of the power they wield in elections we have about 50% of the population voting as idiots or easily fooled by the media. That leaves about 7% genuine labour voters, based on the last poll, which gives me hope for September if we can remove the press bias and educate just a few of the idiots 🙂
    
    7 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:24am
  - Surely Knott
    
    I agree mikenmild. The public were already shutting down and pulling their kids out of school. The govt followed. It took them a while to close the borders. But overall the results are we are lucky, free to walk around so people don’t care too much about the detail. However, the media has been next level biased in their adoration and bias towards Adern. There is nothing like it anywhere else in the world. And even when she deserves serious criticism (eg the covid-19 bill which she by-passed parliamentary process to grant police warrantless entry for 2 years and compulsory medical treatments!) there is barely a peep from the lefty activists and the media. It is 24/7 , 7 days a week on every newspapers, 100% adoration of their cult of personality leader and it’s weird.
    
    18 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:56am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Bordering on sick.
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:43pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Quick question – what has Labour done that wasn’t after pressure from National and ACT? The excessive lockdown is the only thing I can think of.
    
    See. The issue is that most people have only seen what Labour and the media have been saying and that is a far more skewed source than Kiwiblog, and that’s the problem.
    
    15 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:03am
- Tomtoddy
  
  I have a neighbour who I test out on current politics. He is a nice guy, a loader driver at a quarry. He lives simply, isnt ambitious and maybe be a little under average IQ.
  
  He is not quite sure which party Jacinda is in but got it right after a bit of head scratching. “Me and the missus reckons she’s done a great job. Saved us from the virus thing. We would vote for her”.
  
  I asked what he thought of Simon Bridges and he struggled to recall who he was but when he did light on to him he thought he was always complaining. “He’s against everything”.
  
  The conclusion? The media play a huge role in who many voters think are PM material. Ardern has had unprecedented coverage and supportive media comments and vice versa for Bridges.
  
  That will change as the depression bites. The question is will it change enough before September? Its possible but not likely.
  
  45 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:47am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I don’t think so. Ardern is so much more engaging than Bridges – all the media have to do is play what either say and let the public listen. Your confirmation bias suggests to you that the media is leans a certain way but it’s just not true. There are some in the media who like to play the “gotcha” game and they’ll do that equally to both sides and it’s up to politicians to fall into that trap, but by and large, after filtering out the obviously leaning ones, who are pretty clear on their leanings (Hosking and Hawkesby come to mind), the majority of the media are happy to simply let the politicians speak for themselves and let the public decide. And our own confirmation biases do the talking inside our heads.
    
    6 38
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:06am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      See Ardern in her anxious mode to see how engaging she can be. She been riding the podium high lately with the Police Commissioner and the High Chief of Health Direction.
      With $50M for the MSM she is assured of feeling good. She also lives close by with her extended family in a really large roomy home and estate so has no reason to feel locked down.
      
      23 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:41am
    - [moderated]
      
      Is “confirmation bias” a new phrase you’ve just learnt today or something? It seems to be the crux of every response so far.
      
      4 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:40am
    - Jack5
      
      “Ardern is so much more engaging than Bridges”.
      
      This isn’t a Miss New Zealand popularity poll, and let’s see out the PR plays out in the economic crash.
      
      And, Simon, please stop hammering “confirmation bias” as though you are the only one of us free of this universal psychological trait.
      
      7 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:53am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I carry out similar tests… on folks well-travelled, well read…and otherwise.
    
    As Simon Gotlieb writes above (8:45am)… most folks aren’t politico-tragics like many of us here. Most folks don’t spend time analysing the minutiae of the day in Parliament. Most folks haven’t a clue as to what their local MPs have (or haven’t) been up to.
    
    But sometime leading up to the election, they’ll decide that they are happy with the status quo and life under Jacinda or that they want something better for themselves and their family.
    
    If the Nats can’t show that they offer them a better future, then it’s a shoe-in for Jacinda & co.
    
    30 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:27am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I believe the future will run away from Ardern & her COL. These next few months are likely to shock the whole world.
      
      21 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:43am
      - Bobba Fret
        
        If things such as unemployment rate etc. happen fast, people may turn against Jacinda, but I think Grant is clever enough to defer the pain until after the election. eg. Wage subsidy will probably be extended one more time to take us just past the election.
        
        13 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:54am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      That’s why vacuous soundbites and media items manufacturing Cindy’s ‘humility’ are utterly crucial to Labour’s continuing communication strategy…
      
      8 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:04am
- DeepBlue
  
  Ardern’s very clever ‘Kindness’ is a masterstroke. All the people who are scared, vulnerable, at risk of redundancy and business failure are nor giving her a vote because they hope she will be kinder than National. She will increase benefits and remove the partner earning restriction etc.
  
  It isn’t right, but all these people don’t care about Reserve Bank QE, they want help now. $140B isn’t their individual problem.
  
  34 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:53am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Spot on DeepBlue.
    
    It’s a very powerful meme. Powerful enough that Bridges looks negative and cynical as a result. One day they will study Jacinda Ardern in political science classes at University. Master politicking – and what makes it work is that it seems so effortless for her as it’s simply an extension of her own personality. That’s why it’s untouchable. She doesn’t even need to think about it. Whereas everybody else has to work at it.
    
    I believe Ardern and Key have been two of the most masterful politicians our country has seen.
    
    10 18
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:09am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It remains to see what legacy there will be from their political success. I suspect future historians will judge both of them rather harshly as leaders who had enormous public appeal, yet failed to make any lasting changes.
      
      11 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:11am
      - Jack5
        
        Milky, that is astute.?
        
        3 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 10:58am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Also spot on. Being a great politician is pretty much about that though, isn’t it, despite what we all want from them. Because, if you make lasting changes, there’s sure to be a whole load of apple carts upset somewhere.
        
        2 3
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:24am
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Where would Jacinda be without the constant media praise, seems to me like she needs a lot of propping up.
      
      No man would be acceptable to the electorate if they were so pathetic in their own right.
      
      4 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 2:00pm
  - Philview
    
    Labour still have to front up to an election with a manifesto and those same policies that don’t align with middle New Zealand will be in there. For example, culling prison numbers by a third, massive unionisation of the workforce, targeting farmers on climate change etc. When push comes to shove Jacinda has an eye on how she is perceived by her overseas audience. The numbers are going to swing back.
    
    9 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:37am
  - burt
    
    NZTA road signs with “Be Kind” are also election advertising then?
    
    12 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:41am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Yes.
      
      12 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:44am
      - david
        
        Also seeing the “kindness” meme coming thrugh in supermarket adverts (New World IIRC).
        Payback for being given free run without competition during lockdown perhaps?
        
        4 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 3:44pm
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Hadn’t thought of it that way. I’ve been back at work since lat Thursday and I’ve seen some pretty impatient driving in that time. I reckon they should change the sings from “be kind” to “don’t be a dick.”
      
      6 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:26am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    People are being fooled unfortunately.
    National and ACT point out that the Government aren’t doing what needs to be done = negative.
    Jacinda finally follows what National and ACT have been pushing for and claims it for herself = positive.
    
    The media are controlling the narrative to the detriment of the people.
    
    15 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:06am
    - Nickc2
      
      This crisis has been kind to Cindy’s mob. It has given them a chance to do what all Labour Governments worldwide want to do – make the peasants dependant on them.
      Cindy’s mob would have had to make excuses to borrow money in order to give handouts to the peasants until the crisis happened and now, the crisis is the excuse.
      Now they have access to the borrowed money, they are setting about sowing a financial minefield for any other incoming government but themselves. I think that given the slush fund Robertson is holding back, there are many more handouts coming that will serve as peasant bait which any incoming government will find impossible to wide back. Helen Clark’s interest-free student loan was peasant bait that worked for her mob at the time.
      I think some kind of free dentistry will be another peasant bait that Cindy’s mob will throw out during the election campaign. National and/or Act wouldn’t dare campaign against that no matter what the financial cost.
      
      National should be making a hell-of-a-noise about the Treasury not fronting up to the Budget Meeting today but I doubt any of the media will give them column space let alone favorable editorial comment.
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:47pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      And the detriment to themselves and the fourth estate, once vaunted.
      
      1 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 2:02pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    I know you are not saying that all people are scared or vulnerable, but I think are a minority. Cautious or circumspect doesn’t make scared. People got the plan, it was well explained and there was plenty of evidence worldwide – but NZ also had a vision of ‘life after.’
    I watched Q&A last night, first of all, I heard the polling news then saw Robertson being interviewed. I felt Tame put in right on the spot about new investment and expected we’d see him dropped the ball but he spoke about new initiatives that were already in progress before Covid – including Microsoft establishing here in a prominent way I think was one. I think that was consistent with many people’s thoughts right through Covid – emerging in a better way. Very much reminded of Bill English’s progress in maker a fairer society which seemed to have been suddenly dropped because of internal polling or something.
    Later when I read the blog here on the polls I saw that many were talking about the economy tanking when in fact Robertson said that from the outset but that he expected the recovery to be faster (time will tell on that.) That shows people are only hearing what they want and not really listening.
    What I am saying is that many people listened and got the plan, few would have expected perfection, some like me will still be wanting discipline to be maintained.
    I don’t think the Nats were listening. Most politicians steal other’s thunder in a split second. The Covid Committee was what Simon could make of it – he could have been positive and taken credit for much of what was happening – he eventually tried that but after an awkward period where the Committee took on the role of inquisitors. What was he thinking?
    A question now is who were the architects of the Labour/Greens plan to step over into a new world with broader and better outcomes? I recall not only was it similar to the vision of Bill English and certainly was mentioned by Peter Gluckman early on in Covid. But some brilliant thinking somewhere, even the innate sense to avoid panic and have steely determination.
    
    3 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:11am
- KevO'Brien
  
  With Ardern & Robertson presenting as Mother & Father of the Nation post budget what else can we expect.
  Wait.. they are going to have to deal with a an economic crisis that will probably swamp them.
  They’ve set aside $20Bn of our children’s future to scatter over immediate irritations of job loss etc. They cannot however repair loss of dignity and resultant mental health issues. Medical care has been put aside–those bodies will catch up.
  
  Our dollar will shortly further its slippery slide. The more Robertson does the worse it may get. They don’t have the answers and have passed the point of easy turning back. A wage price/spiral is not nice. If not Muldooned they lead to Weimar and Venezuela.
  
  The Police are evidently jittery–they are disturbing the public too.
  By Sept The COL may be hoping themselves to exit to avoid what they cannot face.
  National with Simon Bridges as leader and the team have the ability to see NZ safely through the coming stages.
  ☑️☑️Strong and able☑️☑️
  
  24 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:54am
- freethinker
  
  Than – I suspect that the Reid poll in using the internet for a portion of those polled may have skewed the results as those polling on the internet are somewhat self selected. Without doubt ardern will have a boost for NZ Covid 19 results, its when the result of her “policies” become visible like unemployment that polls may show a change reflecting reality, a football club at the bottom of the table may comprehensively beat the top club but the jubilation of winning doesn’t alter relegation – ask Jeremy Corbin or Clinton.
  
  2 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:14am
- Pheobe
  
  Hope you don’t mind, but liked your post so copied it onto a Facebook post….lol certainly getting a reaction.
  
  2 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 4:13pm
Simon Gotlieb

Plenty of opinions everywhere on the poll result. I’ll give my opinion, as somewhat of a lefter leaning individual than most here.

Unlike what most here would think, the electorate has not recently gone stupid, or caught up in some kind of mass delusion. Stop kidding yourself.

It’s predominantly about safety. In a time of crisis, people like to feel that the government actually gives a shit about them.

And they are not getting that from National. What they are getting from National is a sense of negativity, of trying to undermine what they perceive to be a government actually trying to do something.

People aren’t stupid – they know that the coalition government isn’t perfect. But here’s the thing. They don’t expect that. What they do expect is that the government will put the majority of the people of the country first. And here again National fails, because they are trying to appeal to a small segment of society.

Some have said that Bridges is invisible. I disagree. He’s had plenty of time on the oversight committee, and unfortunately, that has become so politicised that it’s turned a huge percentage of the voting population off. Now that was clever politicking by the Coalition government – they took a bet he’d do so, and he played straight into their hands. And he’s come across, again, as negative, and undermining.

There’s a reason people like those little anecdotes in the media about the prime minister dying her hair at home, and not getting into cafes. It makes her relateable. Do not underestimate the power of a leader to whom the population can relate. It’s like that idea of being able to have a beer with John Key. Worth at least 10% on election day. Even I could entertain the idea of sharing a beer over a BBQ with Key. I just don’t get that with Simon Bridges – or any of the senior National MPs.

Bridges tried to sync with the voters over the lockdown, but failed as he couldn’t resist the urge to have a dig at Jacinda Ardern. Mistake… again he came across as negative and out of touch.

So, to sum up, National are looking out of sync with the voters. They don’t look like they care about the average person (John Key was brilliant at that even though the reality was he cared as little about them as the current crowd). And worse yet, they look like the only thing they have to offer is destabilisation and negativity.

And the majority of the population doesn’t want that. Clearly.

I don’t think changing the leadership is going to make a difference. The problem is now with the party. Look at what Labour did – three leaders in as many years. It was terrible for them.

I await the downticks, but think before you do so – do you do it because it’s a comment that doesn’t align with KB groupthink, or are you going to downtick, and then respond with why you genuinely believe that undermining and negativity is actually the right way to endear your self to the electorate, and if you just keep doing the same thing for long enough, the stupid people will eventually come to understand?
28 43
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:16am
- krazykiwi
  
  Downticking because I fully disagree with the notion that National is about “undermining and negativity”, and with the Labour sycophants wailing about things being “politicised”. FFS man, Ardern has been milking the Covid-19 thing for political capital like no PM New Zealand has ever experienced, while running a shambolic, inept team and dictated to by Winston.
  
  53 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:21am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Thanks for engaging KK. I don’t agree with you, but I respect that you actually took the time to respond.
    
    17 7
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:34am
  - Gravelroad
    
    That is my view too, KrazyKiwi.
    If National had been in government during this Covid19 time I expect they would have sought expert advice from medical specialists about what to do for the best for everyone.
    Then they would have informed the populace that this is what we are going to do based on that advice – and taken the appropriate action.
    But I doubt that the whole story would have become based on the profile of one person.
    Instead, what we have is the Jacinda Ardern show.
    She is not an expert, but people now think she is the oracle on everything. I know women, especially, who would literally do anything she said.
    She is now one very personally powerful person.
    But without her the Labour Party is nothing.
    
    38 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:52am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Ardern is now bothering the women. They can very quickly turn her out of govt. She is going to have to face the coming economic tsunami. If the NZ dollar keeps going down prices will go UP.
      I have lived through those times previously, never forgotten. Ardern doesn’t do stress well–watch out ahead.
      Very interesting next few months.
      
      20 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:53am
- kowtow
  
  There’s a reason why those little anecdotes in the media about the prime minister dying her hair at home, and not getting into cafes are reported so heavily .
  
  People are stupid if they think they’re not being planted by the Media Pardy.
  
  43 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:28am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I hope the PM’s chief press secretary gets a pay rise, because, even with the women’s magazines stopping, they’ve done a masterful job pitching women’s magazine style stories to the mainstream media.
    
    30 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:36am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      There’s a lot of people in our country read – and like – those women’s magazines. That’s a lot of voters. More than you’d think.
      
      7 12
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 8:40am
      - adamsmith1922
        
        Unfortunately
        
        10 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:06am
      - Happychappy
        
        But Simon these are the same politicians, mothers and children that have mouthed off about “baby boomers” being greedy and leaving nothing for those to come. Well maybe Jacinda and the Green MP’s that preach this crap should have a good look at themselves as baby boomers haven’t left the debt this Government will leave for other generations to pay and more likely generations to come after that. It is easy to sling the crap but not so easy to except what your generation is doing now.
        
        11 2
        Report
        May 19, 2020 9:21am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    Thanks for your thoughts kowtow. I disagree with you too – a lot of people really like the thought that the leader of the country faces the same struggles as they do. And the media do not report on anything that doesn’t result in further readership – i.e. “clicks”. It’s just like the proliferation of reality TV shows – they give us more because we continue to like, and watch them, despite some (well, most) being the most appalling dreck.
    Calling out people who disagree as being stupid is elitism of the worst kind, and only serves to further alienate yourself from the majority. Eventually you will end up in a small group of like minded individuals completely out of step with society.
    National are determined to play politics like it’s still the 1990s. There is a change occurring now – perhaps it’s a Gen X thing, perhaps not – and the boomer way of life is gradually receding. And the way that politics was done is changing. Parties that embrace this new way of thinking – like our one – will see further electoral success – and parties that don’t … well, they won’t.
    
    13 17
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:39am
    - ancient one
      
      I am old enough to remember the change to politics when television arrived.
      For the next number of years the art of success was to crawl on hands and knees to the media to get good media coverage.
      Trump and social media seemed to change that.
      However if the politics of infotainment, of feelz has come with a less fact orientated generations then the paradigm has changed.
      
      14 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 8:50am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      You seem too lost in your ideology and pol science speak to have any concept of the tsunami unleashed by the lockdown. Feelingz before food leads to empty stomachs and change of rulers.
      
      8 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:58am
    - Gravelroad
      
      Here’s the difference, Simon Gotlieb – re celebrity “culture”-
      I guess I am probably 20 or so years older than you.
      When I was a teenager, I and my friends waited hours outside the Hotel Nelson for The Beatles to appear on the balcony. When they did, we all screamed and screamed and some even fainted.
      The girls all wanted to look like Elizabeth Montgomery off Bewitched or pop icon Sandy Shaw.
      The boys all grew their hair into Beatle styles and tried to play guitars, or drums if you were a bit weird.
      What we didn’t expect was politicians to do the same.
      The role of politicians was to run the country.
      They didn’t have to be grinning rock stars.
      We didn’t care about their hair as we were too busy worrying about how our own hair looked.
      Did they have lovely little kids? Dunno.
      Could they run the economy for the benefit of all?
      That was really all that mattered.
      Did the Prime Minister need to be a celebrity to be cool? No.
      We didn’t feel the need to relate personally to them at all.
      
      11 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:26am
      - Simon Gotlieb
        
        Yes, I agree with you on this – but, it is what it is and politicians respond to it.
        
        Not sure of your age – I fear I’m one of the younger ones on here – early 50s, so one of the first Gen X’ers.
        
        2 6
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:29am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘Parties that embrace this new way of thinking – like our one –’
      
      What do you mean by like our one ? Is that labour you are referring to .
      
      BTW , I think you are reading far too much into the polling and methodology of labour as if they’ve some sort of plan , other than putting Ardern up as the Saviour of the nation.
      
      3 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 2:10pm
    - Sacha
      
      As long as we follow the Judas sheep we will not suspect that we are going like lambs to the slaughter.
      Imagine the surprise when the end of the line is reached!
      
      1 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 5:36pm
- nasska
  
  Bridges is not fit for purpose but to accuse him of “undermining and negativity” is ridiculous.
  
  He’s leader of the opposition so it’s his job to oppose & point out the government’s failings.
  
  44 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:38am
- Littletramp
  
  I tend to agree with this assessment by SG. National is being lapped by Labour spin doctors in the marketing of their respective leaders. It is just so noticeable that Labour is all virtual signalling, controlling the media and total fakery but we are constantly told by the media that the public is lapping it up. Will the public see through the smoke and mirrors on election day?
  
  33 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:38am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    History would suggest that the public is extremely susceptible to this kind of thing. So no, I don’t believe the public will change their opinion before election day. They will always choose happy lies over bitter facts.
    
    16 10
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:20am
- Tomtoddy
  
  I am not a big fan of Bridges but I think it is simplistic to define him as negative and undermining. I agree he certainly should never have taken on the role as Chairman of the Covid19 committee – that was well planned trap. However he has a role to carry out that is essential to our democratic process and if he didnt do it we would be the poorer.
  
  He is simply sidelined by a media blinded by Ardern’s grabbing the front role and milking it shamelessly.
  
  The future for National is wrapped around their ability to expose the shambles behind Ardern and demonstrate an alternative way forward focusing on the superiority of their team and their plans.
  
  23 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:55am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    If he didn’t realise the probable consequences of heading the Covid Committee it indicates why he is polling poorly. He could have made the role hum but wasn’t even able to imagine how.
    
    1 8
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:30am
- Justitia
  
  @ Simon: I don’t share your politics but I concede that you are right when you suggest this poll is a measure of New Zealanders’ quest for safety and reassurance. The relatively low infection and mortality rates here mean we have been spared the harrowing images we have witnessed daily in cities like London and New York and New Zealanders see that. Most Kiwis have also always put security above liberty. I certainly hope we are spared the shock of a second wave, especially as we head into winter when ambient temperatures and humidity become ideal for the rapid spread of the virus.
  
  I think Bridges’ chairing of the Epidemic Response Committee has been good, but most New Zealanders aren’t ready to hear criticisms of the government yet. I think he personally has some baggage that will weigh him down. He is not “likable” and he is tarred with the China connection. It is no coincidence that Peters is now trying to extract mileage from appearing to stand up to China. I think a new leader is required urgently, especially someone who can take Ardern and Robertson apart on the appalling prognosis for the economy. But does Paul Goldsmith have charisma?
  
  13 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:56am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    I agree with you about Goldsmith – smartest man in National right now.
    
    And yes, NZ doesn’t want criticism right now – they see it as negative and undermining.
    
    National’s only hope it to play the aspirational game. But I don’t think Bridges has it in him.
    
    10 6
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:22am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    But does Paul Goldsmith have charisma?
    
    4 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:27am
    - BeeJay
      
      Todd Muller does!
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:11am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      No he doesn’t. That tiktok video what bloody embarrassing. Shame. While I don’t agree with his politics he’s still a smart fella.
      
      1 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:30am
- Hard Cheese
  
  You’re correct that the Government’s popularity is about safety, although arguably an illusory safety based on some rather rubbery modelling and implausible death rate comparisons with countries very different from our own. People don’t want to hear Simon Bridges’ perceived “negativity and destabilisation” because they don’t want anything to pop their bubble of safety. Unfortunately “negativity and destabilisation” is actually reality – dismissing it and instead revelling in tales of cafes and hair dye is a celebration of their bubble of denial, egged on by a media desperate for survival. In bad times, no-one wants to hear bad news.
  
  The 56 percenters are going to have their bubbles popped sooner or later – economic reality might be hidden for a while by the Labour fog machine of obfuscation and target removal, but eventually they’ll have to swallow some Ardern-branded cod liver oil and they are not going to like it. I wonder what they’ll think of the stories of cafes and hair dye then.
  
  12 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:12am
  - Don Beckett
    
    “Those who sacrifice Freedom for Safety, deserve neither freedom nor safety.” – Benjamin Franklin.
    
    And if the country continues the way its going, that will be our result – we will have neither.
    
    3 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:22pm
- Stephen Russell
  
  I think you are quite wrong about National, Bridges and Key not caring about people. But you are right about the perception that they don’t. And right that the perceived negativity (which is about all National can get across) goes down badly.
  
  15 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:13am
- Libertarians are right
  
  That is stupid.
  Labour were late. National’s “negativity” was pointing out that something needed to be done.
  Then idiots pretend Labour went hard and early when they finally do what National was pleading for.
  
  I’m repeating myself now but you keep repeating the lie that National is being negative. Their “negativity” was proven right every time.
  
  12 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:09am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    You’re absolutely right. Does it make any difference? No.
    
    Like it or not, the general public are all about the feels. And National are getting that completely wrong right now.
    
    5 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:32am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Being all about the feels is stupid though. Just because it’s the majority acting stupidly doesn’t mean they’re not acting stupidly.
      
      Labour are all about the feels as you say but they often get things wrong. The only way to point that out is by appearing negatively unfortunately. This is definitely compounded by the MSM’s framing of it too. National’s problem is that they have a responsibility to all of us (even you) to point out these issues. Yes, it looks negative, but it still has to be done.
      
      If you only look at it from a political pointscoring position, then yes, National are getting it wrong. If you’re looking at in in a “what’s best for NZ” position, then the fact that this Government has repeatedly flipflopped under the “negative” pressure of the opposition, then National are doing the right thing. Yes it’s costing them, but it’s saving the rest of us a lot of pain.
      
      2 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 12:00pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  I agree with Simon. Who needs negative, and a person has to be pretty thick not to see it.
  
  1 9
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:19am
- freethinker
  
  Simon – It’s predominantly about safety. In a time of crisis, people like to feel that the government actually gives a shit about them.
  I upticked you for a thoughtful comment which you
  correctly identify and safety is a major issue evidenced by global public reactions. The aftermath in terms of individual economic damage is still to become clear and we may differ in our opinion and time will tell if there is wide acceptance that the economic damage was a price worth paying, my opinion is self interest when you lose a job or business or reduced wealth and quality of life may deal a devastating blow to those deemed responsible.
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:21am
- WaveyDavey
  
  I agree with much of what you say there. The reality is that no leader of National can stand in the way of the feel-good steamroller currently flattening everything in its path.
  
  Almost all democratically elected leaders are currently seeing an upswing in popularity – Trump & Johnson included.
  
  My real problem in all of this is any questioning is seen as negative. Even putting questions about what has happened to one side any desire to know what comes next is dismissed.
  
  There are questions that need to be answered and the earlier the better and there are hard facts to be faced likewise.
  
  The following questions are not politically partisan but unfortunately the framed narrative sees them as attacking the government and its response.
  
  1. How are we going to pay for this
  2. How long will it take to pay off
  3. How long can we remain isolated
  4. Why is the trans-Tasman bubble presented as when rather than if
  5. Similarly why are there no wise heads cautioning that finding an effective vaccine is not guaranteed
  6. What if we never find a vaccine and how long before we give up on it
  7. What do we believe we would look like with no vaccine
  8. If an effective treatment (not vaccine) is discovered how many deaths are we willing to accept to return to a kind of normal
  
  Now many might say that it’s too soon to be asking those questions but I would disagree. I assume our government (and others) have people working on the answers, certainly they should have from before we went into lockdown or we’ve gone into a war with no exit strategy and no measure as to what constitutes victory.
  
  These questions are being asked and discussed overseas – just look at international media and yet there’s precisely zero discussion in the NZ media.
  
  7 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:33am
  - david
    
    Even more immediately:
    What does Level 1 look like?
    and what does Level 0 look like?
    and what has to happen to get to level 1 or level 0?
    We should know,
    We deserve to know.
    We are not mushrooms, do not treat us as children.
    Not everyone needs to have their lives managed for them. We all know people who will take the path of least resistance and expect others to make their decisions for them, it is much easier. Someone else will feed your kids, someone else will work hard to earn the taxes that somehow magically appear in your bank account each fortnight, someone else will put boxes of donated food together and deliver them to your door, where does it stop?
    Unfortunately the analytical ability of the average punter is limited and reduces further each time there is some free stuff available.
    
    1 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 4:05pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  What is the opposition party designed to do? I wish they opposed more, were Labour accused of being negative when they were a shrieking shrill opposition? No.
  
  2 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 2:26pm
Botany Bill

A political poll taken four months out from a general election may be interesting but its results are irrelevant. We’re soon going to go through the ugliest winter in New Zealand history. Unemployment may reach 10 per cent and in July and August there will be stories every night on the TV news about people getting laid off from their jobs, companies going under, rising social and mental health problems, people who can’t find jobs, and people who are struggling to feed their kids and pay their bills. When that starts happening, people will point the finger at the Government and Jacinda Ardern. The general public won’t care in July and August what a good job the Government did from March to May. Labour will fall in the polls as a result and I wouldn’t be surprised to see them drop into the 30s. There’s a lot of water, and negative media coverage of the struggling New Zealand economy, to go under the bridge between now and September 19. National shouldn’t lose hope.
45 2
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:19am
- dave_c_
  
  Only if these negative events are ‘actually reported’.
  50 million bucks is enough of a carrot to turn a blind eye (bribe) to reporting them.
  
  36 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:27am
  - freethinker
    
    dave-c – Quite right but the problem is if the MS Liars fail to report such negative feelings and politicians plan on the basis of only one side the results blindside them as Corbin discovered in the UK when previously solid Labour seats turned Conservative for the first time ever and Labour were routed.
    
    3 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:25am
- artemisia
  
  And families living in cars.
  
  16 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:32am
- RW Capitalist
  
  “10 per cent and in July and August ”
  More like
  12-15 per cent and in July and August
  90 days for now is over 90000 more
  116000 before covid 19
  43000 during lock down
  90 000 over the next 90 days
  249000 total…..closer to about 13% unemployment.
  The wage subsidy will only stave it off for so long.
  The 1000 per day will accelerate and my numbers may be a bit light.
  
  17 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:32am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    NZ is still high on the wage-subsidy anesthetic. Reality hasn’t bitten yet.
    It will bite HARD.
    
    9 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:19am
  - freethinker
    
    The Hospitality Ass are predicting 50% of those employed in the industry will lose their jobs – 350,000/400,000 employed depending on whose figures are uses. Say 275,000 join the unemployed every 28,000 add 1% to unemployment figures so alone that would account for 6.25% increase which is probably were the June figure comes from, in Europe, France and others discovered unemployment above 10% was unsustainable as the mess that is the EU is now demonstrating
    
    3 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:32am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Hope you are right, but generally takes more than a year for a surge like this to abate. People’s minds change only slowly, unless something huge occurs to change their mind (and spiking unemployment could possibly do that)
  
  14 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:34am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Quite so BB; we are going to go from something of an Indian summer into a Winter of Discontent. The pace of layoffs and redundancies will increase, and even if we don’t get the exact numbers from our “open and transparent” numbers, we all know people who have lost their jobs, some of whom face long periods out of work. And it’s going to get worse – much worse – before it gets better.
  
  23 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:43am
  - ancient one
    
    It seems a given, perhaps I am wrong, but an underlying assumption that the situation in New Zealand is all that is on the counter.
    What if there is a real depression world wide.
    Not going to help much if our terms of trade and currency falls
    
    12 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:53am
    - alwyn
      
      Who is likely to notice that the New Zealand currency is falling?
      After all look at the changes since the CoL were imposed on us by Winston.
      The USD rate has dropped from 0.730 to about 0.600.
      The Euro rate has gone down from about 0.614 to 0.553.
      The GBP has gone from around 0.567 to 0.495.
      Only the AUD is at about the same level.
      
      2 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 2:45pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    You’re actually saying the same thing as the Government Tony. You seem to be in denial that the Col is making no bones about the bleakness ahead, people are already conditioned to the idea so that if it is less severe or with promising signs emerging its a bonus.
    A “wet dream” for the Col will be sharing a bubble with Aussie sometime before September or have an agreement by then. 4 months away more will be happening with a lift because it has been planned for.
    
    0 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:39am
    - alwyn
      
      An agreement before September?
      That seems an extremely unlikely event. The Queensland State Government looks as if it will not even allow interstate travel to recommence before September. If they don’t even allow travel within Australia what are the chances that we will be allowed to go there?
      According to the Roy Morgan Daily News Summary, who are quoting from a story in The Australian
      “The Queensland government has indicated that the state’s borders may not be reopened to interstate travellers until September. South Australia and Western Australia have also flagged the possibility that travel restrictions could remain in place for some time, prompting concern about the impact on the tourism sector.”
      
      1 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 2:31pm
  - freethinker
    
    Tony – I predicted in January that 2020 would be arderns anus horriblis before covid 19 appeared, publication of real unemployed figures will not matter to those newly unemployed although truthful reporting may have a sufficient effect of those fearing unemployment to change their voting intentions. Depending on timing Sep 2020 may be the biggest pain the collective arse of the coalition of clowns that even stainless steel knickers will not protect from being given the arse card 20/9/2020.
    
    1 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:39am
- JackRabbit
  
  Govt unemployed figures are not a reliable source of unemployment figures.
  
  Given that you you only have to work a minuscule amount of hours to be considered employed, 10% is a completely erroneous figure. You can work 5 hours, get topped up by social welfare for the other 35, and you are considered employed.
  
  It is further skewed by uni students that may work a couple of hours at the local cafe, but draw down a loan. They are considered employed. It is also skewed again by people over 65 that are still working, and therefore contribute to the employed statistic, but if did not work would not be considered unemployed.
  
  It would be far better to count the population between 16 and 65 who receive social welfare benefits.
  
  And if you need further specifics, break it down to percentage of hours worked that they want to work for.
  
  Benefits would have to include Working For Families, in that if the person or family was not receiving WFF they would have to work, then they are by definition receiving a benefit and therefore unemployed and paid by the state.
  
  20 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:46am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    I’d like to see a lift on how many hours can be worked whilst receiving a benefit. Both Labour and Nats hold a negative attitude on this, the limit is too low.
    
    1 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:41am
- MCos
  
  ‘the ugliest winter in New Zealand history’
  
  I could think of a number of winters in our history far worse for a lot more people than this one promises to be.
  Far worse.
  
  2 17
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:57am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    True. Imagine if the 1918 flu had hit NZ in winter, rather than spring.
    
    1 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:34am
- Stephen Russell
  
  No, Labour won’t get the blame for the struggling economy. They’ll easily win the election. I wish that were not so, as they do not deserve to win, but that’s the reality.
  
  9 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:16am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Wait till the dollars begin its fatal slide.
    
    9 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:02am
    - freethinker
      
      Kev – this could be a partial savior for loss of Tourism earning by the despised farming industry.
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:45am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Yeah, but the local prices will inversely reflect the exchange rate too.
        
        1 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:37pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Reported by who?
  
  0 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 2:51pm
Scott

Over at Biden Watch we note that the Trump campaign has released a series of mock investigation videos about Joe Biden’s gaffes. Watch till the end when they set up the teaser for part 2. They will reveal what is a “lying dog faced pony soldier”?
This is funny ?

“Trump campaign launches ‘investigative’ video series mocking Biden over gaffes”
19 3
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:19am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Sigh. Negative campaigning. To whom does it actually appeal other than rabid followers? It certainly doesn’t swing the centre of the electorate.
  
  9 19
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:28am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    When you have someone as awful as Biden, Clinton, or Trump for that matter, negative campaigning is sensible and even virtuous – to highlight the woeful behavior of candidate to voters who might otherwise be unaware…
    
    14 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:35am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      I get what you mean, but – as you say – the candidates are all SO awful, that the end result is going to be very few voting, which means only the fanatical will vote, and that tends to lead to interesting results.
      
      3 8
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:24am
      - Batman
        
        The Trump ads don’t add any new voters, and they’re not designed to.
        
        They’re entirely designed to encourage wavering democratic and independent voters to stay home. It is classic voter discouragement and par for the course with the current GOP with their gradually shrinking voter base.
        
        0 3
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:11pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      Free speech for all.
      
      1 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 2:53pm
oldpark

Silence is Golden . How many times how or will we fall for their lies. Yes the present regime blindly supported by NZs completely sycophantic Mainstream Media . Amongst many blatant culprits are the one of them that sticks out the most . Yes it is the North Korean daily edition which Masquerades as the NZ “toilet paper” Herald. Their bankrupt sicko offsider throwaway known as “Stuff” is also desperate to join the NZ “toilet paper” Herald they want to be known as the joke that made the colour of Arderns dyed hair breaking news .
As we go into NZs Winter of Discontent with massive destructive social upsurges and NZs wake up to the fact they have been sold a pup by the woman known as Ardern and NZs economy needlessly has been turned into a pile of ashes with all its conquences . There had to be a more common sense way to save NZs economy.
The price and popularity of the Present regime will be exposed totally on September 19 2020 when the real poll is the Legal Ballot Boxes .Go figure.Wonder how the sicko waste of space fake news NZs Mainstream Media will cope with the demise of NZs Adult image of the wee brat known as “Greta Thunberg” .
19 4
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:27am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Yep. I reckon you’ve just about derided everybody that doesn’t think like you with that one. Do you feel better now?
  
  7 27
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:32am
KevO'Brien

The truth will be eventually outed:
http://joannenova.com.au/2020/05/is-coronavirus-man-made-the-bat-virus-it-evolved-from-appears-to-be-faked/

We may not know for a few years. With Fauci helping finance the Wuhan Lab did some deep state Yanks develop a weapon and the Chinese spotted it then launched their own countermeasure?
Who knows? The USA stops the supply of chips to Huawei because US software is involved in their production. There are plainly deep forces at work well below our eyeball level. Only time will reveal where we have been.
20 4
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:28am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Wow. It’s before 8.30 and I just scored a bingo on my conspiracy madness game. That sort of stuff is better left for Facebook I reckon.
  
  8 25
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:31am
  - JackRabbit
    
    What Simon, so only Facebook should be the venue for discussing controverial events? Does that make it easier for the Borg to monitor “banned” activities?
    
    How do they ban people communicating by off the grid means e.g. face to face in a pub or church? Oh that’s right, they put us into lock down for that!
    
    9 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:16am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      The Borg wouldn’t ban activities – you’d be assimilated so fast you wouldn’t know what hit you. No, it’s because the comments aren’t controversial – they’re crackpot speculation. Honestly, I’ve read some crazy shit here. I swear some of you fellas smoke more weed than the green voters.
      
      1 14
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:38am
      - JackRabbit
        
        “No, it’s because the comments aren’t controversial – they’re crackpot speculation. Honestly, I’ve read some crazy shit here. I swear some of you fellas smoke more weed than the green voters.”
        
        ==================================
        Sorry Simon. I’m marking your essay as a D-. It appears that you have been asleep in my class. 🙁
        
        Here is a suggested rewrite, so that I don’t have to fail you time and time again.
        
        Professor X, Dean.
        ==================================
        
        “No, it’s not because the comments are controversial. They are in my opinion speculation. However since I disregard anything I disagree with, and don’t do objective research, I am unable to come up with any specifics from which to challenge the comments.
        
        If you like it is “my speculation” about what I consider to be “someone else’s speculation”.
        
        I have read some interesting and controversial stuff here. I sometimes think that some of this is written while smoking weed. I know that I write bad stuff when I am smoking weed. I do however have to acknowledge that it may be me that does not grasp intelligent comments, especially those with viewpoints that I do not believe in.”
        
        4 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:16am
      - Ed Snack
        
        That link and the further link to “Nerdhaspower” blog is worth following. NHP makes some quite specific claims that are testable, that removes it from conspiracy science immediately – because “true conspiracy” theories cannot be tested. And I mean “true conspiracy” as theories that are bogus and conspiracy based rather than true conspiracy where there IS a conspiracy and the claims are true.
        
        The particular claim that seems useful is that the RaTG13 “virus” that is now generally claimed as the ancestor virus for SARS-C0V-2 is in fact not a real virus but merely a constructed sequence designed to look like the ancestral virus. This claim rests on several grounds including the mystery of why a viral genome that displays the critical attributes for human infection (the ACE-2 binding) lay uninvestigated for 7 years despite being exactly what a number of scientists (incluing the discoverer) were diligently looking for. That aside (it is possible to overlook such things), the main claim is that the statistical analysis of the mutations in RaTG13 compared to SCV-2 looks very artificial. For example there are 79 individual coding differences between the two, but zero amino acid selection differences. So although the virus as it presumably evolved accumulated 79 differences, not a single one actually changed what was coded – note that AA’s are typically coded for by 2-4 3 “character” codons with the 4th not involved. Statistically, at the 99.9% unlikely level. Plus when you look closer, almost all the actual code changes are in position 3 (of 4), again statistically very unlikely. Combined the pattern looks very much like the sequence was created and is not natural. Worth noting that no samples of the RaTG13 virus exist anywhere for someone else to check the genome sequence, any examples have been destroyed and the genome only now exists in documentation.
        
        Finally, the claim is made that gene editing is sufficiently sophisticated now that such a genome as SCV-2 could be created artificially from a related bat BCV without it being obvious from the genome that editing had been carried out. On that I’m still researching, but preliminary findings do indicate that earlier papers and comments that editing would be obviously evident do seem to be out of date and incorrect – advances in techniques has been rapid and silent editing does appear feasible.
        
        So overall interesting, and testable. Find the RaTG13 or a descendant virus in the wild again and the theory is mostly disproved. But looked at scientifically, against a partial consensus, but that’s not disqualifying on its own.
        
        3 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 12:39pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Virial RNA can be manufactured to order. It is quite feasible for PRC to manufacture a fake virus and plant it for discovery, and they now have huge motive to do so. So unfortunately we can no longer rely upon ‘discovery’ of a new wild sample to prove anything.
        
        1 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 3:17pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  That analysis that it is manufactured is pretty convincing. Though crazy to think it was a deliberate release or some US plot. Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by incompetence.
  
  9 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:38am
- Inandout
  
  Kev, this Fauci chap is a midget and Trump quite towering by comparison. The old chestnut about ‘little Hitlers’ maybe has a ring of truth.
  
  5 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:40am
- notrotsky
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZeewlhHPJg
  
  0 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:41am
- cmm
  
  There are really three options:
  1. Totally natural, came from the wet market.
  2. Natural virus, but leaked out of the lab due to someone chucking something in the wrong bin or other sloppy handling.
  3. Man made virus that leaked out of the lab.
  
  Huge effort is being put into hiding (2) through obfuscation and reframing by making (1) look more plausible and by trying to make anything to do with the lab look more ridiculous.
  
  People mentioning the lab get countered with people saying it is not a man made virus because man made viruses have obvious man made characteristics. That is less and less true as genetic algorithms are used to design viruses and drugs. Still, even if we accept that, it does not mean it was not a natural virus that leaked from the lab.
  
  As for USA stopping the supply of chips to Huawei, that only goes so far. China already designs and manufactures many of these chips themselves.
  
  Have a look at AllWinner and Rockchip. They’ve been cranking out some pretty good chips and are getting better by the day.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockchip
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allwinner_Technology
  
  11 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:04am
  - Jules99
    
    I hear a fourth option yesterday. The virus fell off comet:
    
    https://youtu.be/KwXKzL-yzt8
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:06am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “People mentioning the lab get countered with people saying it is not a man made virus because man made viruses have obvious man made characteristics.”
    
    It is only possible to tell if an organism is “man made” if you have a “before” and “after” sample. Once the organism is out in the wild, there is no way of telling.
    
    There are so many thousands of varieties of vegetables, fruits, flowers, plants and trees that are man made and that do not show up as man made.
    
    Classic example is stringless beans. The first variety was ‘created’ in 1894. But you would never know that under a microscope.
    
    2 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:30am
  - rangitoto
    
    There was a paper recently published, noting that the virus samples from the wet market were already well adapted to human infection and concluded the wet market was not the original point of zoonotic transfer. Most probably lab accident or some unknown incident.
    
    4 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:23pm
- JackRabbit
  
  “With Fauci helping finance the Wuhan Lab did some deep state Yanks develop a weapon and the Chinese spotted it then launched their own countermeasure?”
  
  Wuhan and the US have been in joint virus development and research for a number of years.
  
  The simple fact of the matter is that Covid-19 id a human virus grafted on top of an animal (SARS) transport mechanism, in other words the human virus hitched a rise on a animal transport mechanism.
  
  I could be wrong but if Covid-19 was picked up from a bat or any other animal and hitched a ride on a human, would it not be an animal virus on a human transport mechanism?
  
  Obama put in place the collaboration between the US and Wuhan about five years ago.
  
  https://blog.whitecoatwaste.org/
  https://www.whitecoatwaste.org/
  
  Wuhan had an emergency shutdown in October. However we now know the pandemic started in the last quarter of 2019.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12331072
  
  A large-scale ‘influenza’ killed more than 10,000 people” in the US in August 2019 following the emergency shutdown of Fort Detrick.
  
  “The COVID-19 epidemic broke out globally in February 2020 after the US organized Event 201 – A Global Pandemic Exercise – in October 2019”
  
  Source: https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1182694.shtml
  
  On the global stage, nothing is not what it appears to be.
  
  6 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:12am
- freethinker
  
  Kev- To some extent the US is buying time for their industries to catch up on 5G as China leapfrogged them but in the process stole technology and inserted malicious code – that’s the perception and its irrelevant if its true or not as people act on their perception and China is fast becoming a Global Pariah state that few trust. The real issue for the CCP is the discontent of their 1.3 Billion population and you cannot beat numbers.
  
  2 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:52am
  - Batman
    
    Freethinker: the US is actually leading China in 5G, and while the shoddy standards of Huawei equipment can lead to hacking, there hasn’t yet been a proven or publicised episode of equipment being hacked.
    
    And as an aside to Kevs original post, there isn’t a supply of chips from the US to Huawei which has been stopped. Huawei use their own gear, including their ‘Kirin’ branded CPUs.
    
    2 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:17pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      “…there hasn’t yet been a proven or publicised episode of equipment being hacked…”
      
      There hasn’t yet been a proven or publicised episode of equipment being hacked, that YOU are aware of.
      
      – There, fixed your statement.
      
      1 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 6:58pm
      - Batman
        
        Yeah that’s why I said proven or publicised.
        
        There may well instances which are classified.
        
        Dork.
        
        0 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 7:03pm
- sam green
  
  Joanne Nova references Qanon and 4chan. They don’t come any nuttier.
  
  0 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 5:13pm
Simon

The poll $50 million bought.

If the poll was accurate then Ardern would be on a high not the snarling defensive wreck is she really is.

All “economic” policy to date is designed to claw Labour over the finish line in September. That’s why $20 billion is kept on the sidelines to oil all squeaky wheels between now and September.

The poll is fake news. Its the old new normal.
22 6
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:34am
- MCos
  
  Simon!
  My dear chap.
  
  I detect a degree of bitterness in your comment.
  
  ‘Snarling defensive wreck’
  That’s not language I’d use to describe any of our politicians.
  Could be wrong. I don’t know what goes on behind closed doors.
  
  2 15
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:12am
  - Simon
    
    “I detect a degree of bitterness in your comment.”
    
    No because its only one poll. When it comes to who is in power my personal preference (utterly irrevleant) is that governments should be voted out every 3 years. And labo are truly shit house regardless and are doomed.
    
    There are plenty of signs Labo are in big trouble.
    
    You can see how an Ardern cult member in his excitement has peed his pants over this one poll to see how desperate things are for them.
    
    8 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:14am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      The UMR poll that was leaked had a very similar result. The CB one due out in two days will also be interesting. The Reid Research polls have been historically the most accurate, however.
      
      Not sure about your thoughts that government should be changed every three years. Personally I feel we need a five year electoral term as three years stops politicians from entering decent long term programmes.
      
      1 8
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:37am
      - Rachael Membery
        
        What is it with all of this poll ‘leaking’? Someone needs to caulk someone.
        
        1 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 5:10pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      You reckon they’d feel better at 2% and wouldn’t be desperate.
      
      0 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:46am
- Stephen Russell
  
  If you think that poll does not represent reality then you really need to get out of your bubble. I wish it were not so, but it is.
  
  6 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:20am
KevO'Brien

Arderns PR team on the go worldwide. National need to recognise that Labour activists never sleep. They play dirty instinctively being natural bullies. We need to fight back underground too.
https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/lockdown-life-zealand-bubble-beat-coronavirus-200511174534088.html
21 4
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:35am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Kev, Kev, Kev… why are you so bitter? Seriously, you sound like the kind of guy that would end up in a clocktower with a high powered rifle.
  
  4 25
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:26am
  - Swifty
    
    Don’t be a dick.
    
    17 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:34am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    You could be offensive–I wouldn’t use a clock tower, although I might paint one National blue as I did to a house in the main street of Onehunga.
    
    I have good reason to be aware of Labour bullies. They form a distinct personality type found particularly in unionists. The Whinging Poms of yesteryear had many of them. I met them also when I was a National Party candidate back in 1975.
    I appreciate their loyalty and effectiveness for their cause.
    If you want more, it’s in my bio “My First 80 Years”, available shortly.
    
    14 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:16am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Mods..
    
    12 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:17am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Mods..
    Why is that comment by Simon Gotlieb acceptable?
    
    KevO’Brien has been a long-time commenter here and I have never seen him writing anything that advocates violence.
    
    That Simon Gotlieb could liken him to Mass Murderer – Charles Whitman – is nasty.
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11291712/Texas-clocktower-snipers-rifle-to-go-on-display.html
    
    That this smear is published on Kiwiblog is indicative of its egregious level of moderation.
    
    18 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:20am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Oh bollocks. Kev is as near as dammit suggesting righties go to war against the lefties using othering while claiming that lefties all fit his skewed interpretation of reality. I called his bullshit for what it was – he sounds like the kind of crazy that shoots people in other parts of the world. Anything else is pure speculation.
      
      6 19
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:41am
      - BeeJay
        
        [Deleted – less personal abuse please. Mod.]
        
        0 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:15am
      - JackRabbit
        
        “…he sounds like the kind of crazy that shoots people in other parts of the world…”
        
        As opposed to a leader that drives people to suicide?
        
        5 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 11:34am
      - freethinker
        
        Simon – Not taking sides but whatever one sides uses legitimises its use by the other side.
        
        4 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:03pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I’m not promoting physical war. The pen, now computer, and media are for more effective. Look at the number of new commentators here who pop up when a particular issue needs to be pushed–meme du jour. I regret that National are not much into that.
        
        I do recall one physical event. Elderly Labour “ladies” climbed on the backs of my supporters while the late Mike Moore was addressing a meeting. The Labour supporters had umbrellas and there was a right stoush.
        
        All is forgiven. Now you know where I stand. I am not a terrorist and believe firmly that prayer is our best way of guiding those who govern us to a reasonable path. I’m not bound to like the future I see, but foresight is not foreknowledge until it comes to pass.
        
        5 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:57pm
    - Michael NZ
      
      egregious?
      
      Surely you gest Maggie.
      
      For weeks you complained of stalking and the Mods did Nothing…..
      Read DPF did nothing..
      
      I think egregious is a little kind on your part 🙂
      
      4 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:39pm
      - Batman
        
        May I remind you both of the Stephen Fry theory of offence? Just because someone doesn’t like something doesn’t mean it is actually offensive or beyond the bounds of what is acceptable on this blog.
        
        Kev replied to it and turned it back to something harmless.
        
        Much worse is thrown at lefty people by people here, every day.
        
        2 4
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:43pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I dislike bullying against anyone.
        
        The fact is Simon failed to address KevO’Brien’s cogent points all morning, but resorted to making a nasty comparison of him with a mass murderer.
        
        8 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 2:47pm
      - sam green
        
        Well Maggy- you (the collective you) let mt tinman get away with his death threats against the PM for 4 whole days and about 30 upticks without reporting him. Pretty choosey lot.
        
        1 5
        Report
        May 19, 2020 5:19pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        A lot of those commenters who complain about others on Kiwiblog seem to give a pass to equally offensive comments when they come from someone on ‘their side’.
        
        0 4
        Report
        May 19, 2020 5:44pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @sam Green
        
        What death threats against the PM?
        
        4 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 6:39pm
      - sam green
        
        I’d be quite happy to repost them if you want to see them – however – they were removed – and any comment of mine was moderated as abusive – ask Farrar to show you privately. April 20th 5:14 pm.
        
        1 2
        Report
        May 19, 2020 7:17pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yes, I remember something now..
        I confess I thought mt tinman was referencing the PM as a puppet on a string… I didn’t read it as a death threat at the time…..
        
        so again something that got through (or accepted by)
        the moderators.
        
        I think you will find that I signed my abuse warrant on this blog when I dobbed Griff in for stating that Penny Bright needed a bullet in her head.
        
        and Stephieboy for telling a commenter to put his head in a plasticbag and tie it off.
        
        I’m with you all the way if you can clean up the violent abuse on this blog..
        
        5 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 7:41pm
- coolas
  
  Thanks KevO … great for NZ to be so well presented to the huge Aljazeera audience and it’s all down to PM Ardern and Labour’s handling of the Covid 19 crisis.
  
  It is a shame National are so negative and with moaning Bridges at the helm they’ll be decimated in September.
  
  1 8
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:39am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    So why are you trying so hard?
    
    2 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 5:18pm
- sam green
  
  Read Dirty Politics lately?
  
  1 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 5:14pm
rouppe

Is like to see some data backing up the polls.

The Reid research website has polling data that goes from 2014-2018. What sort of shit is that?

“Most popular pm in a century”. The spin off has a 2017 story saying that UMR had John Key at 81% in November 2010. Would Reid Research at the same time been over 20% lower? Who knows…

The numbers are what they are. It is a blow for national. But 3 news still has to be accurate.

I’ve asked Reid research for access to their poll results going back to 2010.
21 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:35am
- alwyn
  
  All the polls prior to each election are on Wikipedia.
  Just put this query into Google and you’ll find the articles.
  Try this for 2011.
  “opinion polling for the New Zealand 2011 general election”
  Just change the year for the election you want. They give the results for every poll.
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:03am
- bruceavon
  
  Why bother asking for Reid’s poll results? They are on Wikipedia. I get annoyed by the ‘bury your head in the sand’ ideas on here. saying Audrey Young is terrible and biased, when she says something you don’t want you hear -even when she is usually right. Same with polls. Saying they are bad when they come up with the result you don’t want. The TV3 Reid poll was almost completely right before the last election and also the closest in the previous election. so no. The poll is probably right. Deluding ourselves about that isn’t going to help getting back up in the polls. I personally think it is probably too late. but labour will go down probably 10 points before the election. So the main problem is National holding its votes. If we get stuck with labour greens looking close, then the biggest issue is the vote going to NZF. I think Simon has to go. He lost me with the Facebook blunder. 4.5% ?? No.
  
  1 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:32am
Maggie Pie

I see yesterday where New Zealand is celebrating reaching a population of 5 million! All made possible by making Behrouz Bouchani a citizen.
27 1
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:38am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Of course, because without him we’d only have been 4,999,999. That makes all the difference.
  
  4 33
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 8:41am
Paulus

Ia actually think that Labour are concerned in order to obfuscate they are turning again against Simon. They must know that Ardern cannot alone win the election. She only has one seat in Parliament, so along with her media sycophants who are desperate to get a merger/take over before the election they will resort to anything.
Any intelligent analyst will tell them that the shit will hit the fan very soon with 1,000 redundancies per day now and more to follow.
The wage subsidy will be extended to the election in the hope that they can and will buy votes from the disaffected.
It may well do but the results are not a foregone conclusion so attack Simon again again.
17 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:41am
Aunty

In four months’ time, with the country starting to feel the full effects of the recession, and the sugar hit of the Government’s spending starts to wear off, let’s see what the polls will say then.

No party has ever won an outright victory under an MMP election in New Zealand and this one [Labour] won’t either.
16 3
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:44am
dave_c_

Wot ?
Are New Zealanders so ignorant / blind, that they cannot see what the new ‘Digital Tracing App’ being deployed wednesday is really about.
Tracing for Covid ? Bollocks, this is the thin end of the large wedge coming your way.
No way this will be limited to tracing your movements in relation to Covid – rather a harbinger of the future under toatalitarian/facist lockdown, coming NZ’s way soon.
17 5
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:50am
- Paulus
  
  Sorry I do not have such a facility as my old phone is only a phone !
  
  1 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:18am
  - alwyn
    
    Hooray. I am not the only Luddite left.
    Mine makes phone calls and text messages. It also takes surprisingly good photos.
    All for the grand total of $5.00. Of course I have to pre-pay $20/year to keep it working.
    What more do you need
    
    4 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:10am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Are smart phones to be compulsory too?
  
  4 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:18am
- graham
  
  Oh dear, what a shame that the only cellphone I have is supplied by work and as such I am not allowed to download non-work-related apps.
  
  At least, that’ll be my excuse …
  
  2 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:15am
- JackRabbit
  
  Being deployed to trace illness, you mean.
  
  If you don’t believe dear leader and worship the ground she walks on, or if you believe freedom of the individual is more important than the wishes of the state you are “ill”. The quicker we locate you and “correct you”, the better for everyone.
  
  0 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:38am
  - Batman
    
    Oh come on, put your bongs down lads.
    
    0 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:20pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Never had it, never will. Weed dulls intelligence.
      
      1 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 6:53pm
      - Batman
        
        In that case you’ve got a bad case of something causing that paranoia ?
        
        0 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 7:04pm
Aunty

This Poll doesn’t make any sense to me. For 10+% of voters who were happy to vote National for months if not years during the current illegitimate government’s tenor to suddenly go to Labour for – Why? Because they had to stay home for two months?

I don’t buy it. That poll, it’s sampling, is flawed.
25 4
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 8:50am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Not sure if you know this Aunty – but according to my partner, the poll was only conducted by calling people with landlines, and to be eligible, they had to be between 18 to 30 years of age?
  
  17 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:06am
  - Simon Gotlieb
    
    If that was the case, it was probably a poll of at most 20 people, because that demographic has almost totally eshewed landlines. Does your partner have any evidence to back up their claims, or is it just feels?
    
    3 18
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:43am
- emmess
  
  I guess, it is the elderly because they are buying the lie that Jacinda saved their lives
  
  11 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:14am
- Ian Boag
  
  There is an obvious opportunity here for you to set up a polling company that will return what you just know are appropriate results. So go for it!
  
  Had the results been the other way round your post might have been different I suppose.
  
  Of course our blog-master probably has some numbers too (given that he runs a polling company) but they belong to the people who pay him …..
  
  7 19
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:15am
  - gorse
    
    Are you related to the Boag who’s been shooting her mouth off to Newshub? You both have the same shallowness of thought.
    
    4 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:18pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      Your point being?
      
      Sounds like “I am clever and you are dumb”. Obvious from the quality of your reasoning and depth of thought. I am shattered ….
      
      So gorse – are you related to oxalis, California thistle or just dockweed?
      
      Just asking.
      
      1 6
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:32pm
  - bruceavon
    
    Totally right. The logic in an echo chambers goes like this –
    I like the National Party as do my friends.
    This poll says more people like Labour Party. Therefore, this poll is wrong.
    The same thing happens on the left. But such thinking never helps anyone. ask Hillary Clinton.
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 2:57pm
MCos

Trump says he’s taking hydroxychloroquine to ward off Covid-19.
Gotta get me some of that shit!
3 9
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:00am
- Aunty
  
  Ask the PM if she can set you up with a supplier. She seems to know some…….
  
  14 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:09am
- MCos
  
  What I want to know is what disinfectant he injects himself with?
  
  3 15
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:20am
- grumpy
  
  So are tens of thousands of Kiwis and have been doing so for over 30 years……
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:51am
  - Batman
    
    Grumpy, for the conditions that it works for.
    
    Neil Cavuto was talking about it in this video segment from Fox this morning (vid included):
    
    Fox News’ Neil Cavuto on Trump’s announcement that he’s taking hydroxychloroquine: “If you are in a risky population here, and you are taking this as a preventative treatment … it will kill you. I cannot stress enough. This will kill you.” https://t.co/e6D5alfAgc
    
    0 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:23pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      And so what’s controversial about that risk? HCQ is available on prescription because, after about 65 years of use the side effects and risk factors are well known. It shouldn’t be prescribed, for example, to people with significant heart rhythm irregularities. I very much doubt that Trump is taking it unprescribed. This is pure fear-mongering.
      
      People in malarial areas can take HCQ for literally years.
      
      2 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:52pm
MrTips

Here’s one for MMA

HAPPY WORLD INFLAMMATORY BOWEL SYNDROME DAY!!!

I kid you not and particularly apt.
14 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:02am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I’ll just let that one slide…
  
  4 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:30am
  - Batman
    
    Wise choice to go with Townshend instead….
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:24pm
Bobba Fret

If the poll is an accurate reflection of how NZ will vote, then I am very disappointed with the intelligence level of the voting public. Jacinda is a great front person, a smiling, caring person but its all just a front.
People vote just for her, but then you end up with Kelvin Davis, David Clark, Ian Lees-Galloway, Clare Curran, Phil Twyford just to name a few. but the general voters simply do not care about that. All they see is the nice caring person so NZ politics has simply become a popularity contest.
I think after the election some of the people who have become unemployed but still vote for Jacinda may start to see the light, but unfortunately we will have another three years of extreme hardship and pain.
16 2
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:10am
cmm

This CV-19 think is sure taking off in South Africa.

Deaths have tripled since 1 May and now exceed NZ.

There has been some speculation that the high use of ARV drugs to combat HIV/AIDS might keep might also suppress CV19 . It will be interesting to see what happens.

Who would have thought that even AIDS maybe has a silver lining.

Of course numbers out of South Africa are a bit suspect, but they are likely better than the surrounding countries.
9 1
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:14am
brett68

No disrespect to her, but I wouldn’t know Nicola Willis if I fell over her. Plus, I don’t rate women as politicians anyway. They aren’t wired for it, and any who are are man-like in their make up. We have a woman running the ship into the rocks as we speak.

This comment was made on the latest polling thread last night by a commentator who posts here a lot.
I know this view is held by many of the commentators here but something tells me this view is rife throughout the male portion of the national party membership.

If so how can a major party survive with such a blatantly misogynistic culture, you’re basically insulting and ignoring half the voters in NZ.

If National is ever going to be in power again, these attitudes need to go and need to go quickly.
8 14
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:15am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Remind me again Brett; what party did New Zealand’s first female Prime Minister come from? What party did New Zealand’s first female Finance Minister come from?
  
  28 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:30am
  - Batman
    
    To answer the question though, it is not rife through the membership.
    
    Hell, this isn’t ‘NationalBlog’ and there’s a very low chance that the person in question is a member at all, given his weird views.
    
    Hell, he’d be flamethrowered to death in five minutes flat by all the strong capable women members in National ???
    
    3 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:27pm
- Swifty
  
  “but something tells me this view is rife throughout the male portion of the national party membership”
  
  Horseshit.
  
  16 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:33am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    A woman was the target in 1 of Simon’s rants on tape, said she was f……. useless or similar. And Judith is probably too blokey for the blokes.
    
    4 13
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:24am
    - Swifty
      
      “A woman was the target in 1 of Simon’s rants on tape, said she was f……. useless or similar.”
      
      So?
      
      11 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:36am
    - Paulus
      
      The National Party Caucus actually vote for their Leader – unlike the Labour Party, and whilst I may like Judith she does not have the numbers, but would make a good Deputy “selected” by the elected leader.
      
      7 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:11pm
- krazykiwi
  
  You rail against someone who doesn’t rate women in politics, while simultaneously dismissing groups of people because they have, and I quote, “nutty religious views”. As someone with “nutty religious views, I’d like to offer you this:
  
  “Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? — Matthew 7:3
  
  12 7
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:39am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Changing the meme du jour?
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:20am
- Brian McDonald
  
  You got it, Brett.
  
  1 9
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:22am
- Garbageman
  
  Lol you remind me of Gotlieb another pillock that likes to lump everyone under the same umbrella it might surprise you to learn most of us at KB have very differing views on politics not everyone is a National sycophant and many more like myself are not political tragics (we come here to mostly learn & have a laugh) at least you didn’t call us all RWNJs like the other clown but then you are mostly here to whine about Bridges arnt you Brett68 at least most days.
  “this view is rife throughout the male portion of the national party membership” this sounds like something i would read at The Standard, up your game mate lying & indulging in your fantasies are not appreciated by this “blatantly misogynistic” reader
  
  10 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:54am
Brian McDonald

My attempt to pull back a few dollars and get the in-betweens (those that left school early or didn’t necessarily do well in the education system) working with some purpose.
Sent to Grant Robertson and the Covid Committee:

Please consider recommendations on the following which I have also forwarded to the Covid Committee

Income:

That the amount of money able to be earned by a beneficiary or person on an unemployment benefit before their benefit is affected be tripled.
The positives of this will be for businesses to employ more part-time staff as the economy rebuilds. Some of those staff may reach permanent positions either with their new employer or another at some point. The income tax take is higher.

Those persons laid off with a lump sum payment of any type be immediately eligible for a benefit.
Treating savings, bonuses, or entitlements as income for a person losing a job is unnecessarily punitive and unfair.

Whilst the Covid 19 wage subsidy has been very helpful it should, however, be treated as repayable.
It is in the interest of all New Zealanders for such money to be repaid even in a nominal way of say 5% of future income after-tax or say $5 from any benefit excluding superannuation. I suggest a political co-operation between all Parliamentary parties to pass retrospective legislation on the first wage subsidy to be repaid. Failing agreement on that, then alternatively the 2nd round of a Wage Subsidy should be conditional on employers agreeing to repay the new subsidy and the previous subsidy if they received one. From my limited inquiries into this, including my own position, it appears to be seen as fair to pay back the money paid in good faith to maintain jobs, and it is as a benefit to all New Zealanders that it is overtime not viewed as having been “free money” but support in maintaining a job and the economy.

Job Training:

Heavy Vehicle Drivers:
Around 2 decades ago, the minimum age for a HV licence was 18, after some ‘rollovers’ of larger units by young drivers the age level was increased to 26. I suggest it be reduced to 21 and that drivers begin training at between 18 to 20 years, potentially during employment. In the past NZ drivers were often Maori who adapted well to using big machinery, that situation is now also common with Pacific Island drivers. Both these groups, whilst natural drivers and operators, are not always academically inclined, have been squeezed out of the driver job and machine operator market. The drivers association or Road Forum group may have some comment on this. But quite plainly immigrant or work permitted drivers are now the majority of NZ truck drivers and heading the same way in machinery operation. I understand this group of the “work permitted” is targeted to be replaced by NZ citizen drivers because of Covid 19. With ‘free training” offered to apprentices, my suggestion is that “free training” be offered to young NZ drivers and machine operators to a point up to their eligibility for a HD licence (21) to Transport Companies or other suitably qualifying entities. For such qualifying persons to have permission to drive or operate machinery by a fully licenced driver or a suitably experienced operator. Perhaps a suitable name for such persons could be “driver” or “operator” cadet. The wait for such persons to work in such jobs when reconfigured, would be only slightly longer than the original 3 years and come with comprehensive training and on-road experience before attaining full licences.

An open attitude to what jobs might be considered for subsidies or training.
This is something to be encouraged, primary industries including shearing, abattoir work, agriculture, fishing, forestry, furniture manufacturing, fencing, roofing, metal processing, recycling, and so on could be appraised on application. This would incentivize employers to train staff. By its nature, it would not exclude the lesser educated.

Thank you for your time.
6 7
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:16am
- freethinker
  
  Brian Mc – I up ticked you for some original and pragmatic ideas. Repayment of wage subsidy (by the employee receiving it?) and retrospectively is dangerous as the next NZ El Presidente I have some retrospective legislation that would require a new prison on Auckland Island to house past politicians and bureaucrats whose past decisions I do not approve of.
  
  2 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 1:20pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Yes, employees. I don’t approve of retrospective legislation, old Rob gave us some of that. But in the circumstances, and the rush of the payment, I think it would be fair and it’s hardly a sacrifice to return something you got for nothing.
    
    0 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 2:48pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      You miss the point Brian. The Govt. recognises that they are responsible for the loss of wages/jobs by implementing the shutdown so it is considered a ‘welfare’ payment.
      I totally disagreed with the shutdown, but that is now fading into the past.
      
      2 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 4:11pm
MrTips

Looks like Moderna are shooting for the stars with a COVID-19 vaccine: https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/moderna-posts-positive-early-data-for-covid-19-vaccine

If PhIII proves successful over the next 6 months, its going to make an interesting start to 2021.

Still a lot of questions, but this is one of the more impressive vaccine programs it would seem.
4 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:24am
- cmm
  
  The Cure For Cancer highway is littered with wrecks of companies that have crashed and burned after having a cure real soon now or in final testing or whatever. That has been going on for 40+ years. Still no cure in sight.
  
  Where are all those autonomous flying taxis that were supposed to be released in 2018, then 2019??
  
  There might, indeed, be a SARS COV 2 immunisation sometimes soon, but Coronaviruses have been resisting imminisation for a long time now, so I am pretty skeptical until we see something a bit more concrete.
  
  4 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 2:17pm
103PapPap

Did anyone see the Sunday program interview newly appointed All Black captain Sam Cane.
When asked for his opinion on climate change, his response was: “It’s not farming that causes it”.
Suck on that New Zealanders!
23 3
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:32am
- krazykiwi
  
  Asking the ABs captain about Climate Change is about as sensible as asking our PM about GDP
  
  30 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:51am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    They should have asked him about hydroxychloroquine.
    
    3 17
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:28am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Or Cartesian dualism.
      
      4 10
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 10:29am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Henri Bergson !
        
        3 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:00pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I never even heard of him!
        
        3 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:21pm
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Yeah, nah, rugby players aren’t the most expert commentators on much except maybe rugby, and even them I’m not sure.
  
  3 8
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:40am
solarsailer

If recent history is anything to go by National need to win over the working class just as Trump did.

Labour has become the party of University educated, urban, and media elite. There is growing distance between Labour and its traditional working class core that National need to tap into. Look at how they’ve declared open warfare on miners on the West Coast, the birth place of the Party.

National won’t win over the working class with Bridges. Hes part of the establishment. He doesn’t know how to relate to your average working kiwi. Those waiting in line behind him (or should that be in the shadows) aren’t much different.
11 3
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:40am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Last time I looked, not a lot of MPs could be considered to have been ‘average working kiwis’.
  
  0 7
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:27am
  - JackRabbit
    
    On the Left that is true. No Labour MP has ever worked in a real job, so “average working” does not apply.
    
    5 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:42am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  That seems to be the trouble with politics in NZ across the board.
  
  Folks are entering Parliament with little or Nil experience of productive work.
  
  16 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:52am
  - Jack5
    
    I think the rise of politicians of the type Maggy talks about (10.52 post) has been boosted by the MMP electoral system.
    
    FPP, with all its flaws, meant that all MPs passed the scrutiny of local voters. Then as now, some flakes got through, and the overall average IQ of MPs might have been a shade lower. However, most of these people had already made their mark in professions, business, education, or trade unions, and probably also had been successful in local body politics.
    
    Under MMP, a big chunk of Parliament comprises list MPs, selected by party officials. These folk tend to be ambitious career politicians who have attended workshops and training sessions run by the parties before selection. Many of them are young. They are professional politicians from the outset, rather than people who made the grade in their field before entering politics.
    
    We need a new electoral system. My guess on the best people to design one: folk from the games software industry. It’s a mathematical problem.
    
    4 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:36pm
- Paulus
  
  Nah – Labour voters remain the women according to my wife -and she would know !
  
  2 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 1:14pm
SmokerGuy

I think Bridges if given the chance would make a good PM. However it is becoming increasingly obvious that he is now so hamstrung that it is near impossible and that he may not have the chance anyway (I think it all rides on the Colmar Brunton poll). So if he was to be rolled, who to take over? Todd Muller seems like an astute operator but does he have the personality to do the job? I wonder whether Mark Mitchell is the answer. He’s someone who would relate well to anybody and he seems like a genuinely great guy. Wonder what other peoples thoughts are on Mitchell as leader (if Bridges does not survive)?
12 5
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:43am
- Jules99
  
  Bridges looks the best of the lot to me. Tons of experience and he seems to be managing a good team of MPs with no fall out. Maybe his speaking style is not slick, but I don’t think kiwis care too much about that any more than the colour of Ardern’s lipstick. The utter hatred of him in the media and at certain other blogs is beyond all proportion, which makes me wonder about the emotions behind it. That might be the bigger story.
  
  14 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:10am
  - gorse
    
    Jules, they do not like him because he has torn Adern to bits in the house. I have watch Question Time a lot. I have seen him get Adern so angry she flounces back into her chair nearly breaking it with a scowl on her face that would have launched 1000 ships. (full of guys getting the hell out of there). They want him gone, National would be then in chaos, the election in the bag. Easy as that.
    
    8 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:11pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  If you have flybuys you can choose to do Colmar Brunton polls for Flybuys points.
  
  2 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 7:16pm
Swifty

In New Zealand we have a Minister of Employment. His name is Willie Jackson.

What are his ministerial performance outcomes and how is he tracking?
24 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:44am
- kowtow
  
  No other minister in the current gubmint matters , because Jacinda .
  
  7 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:04am
- Jack5
  
  Wily-Willie gets his chance at political glory.
  
  1 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 5:09pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Is up the metric?
  
  0 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 7:14pm
Philview

Just a thought on negative interest rates. I have read that savers in some European countries are taking their money out of the bank and renting a deposit box because it is cheaper. Adrian Orr has pushed this decision past the election which is handy for the Government.
9 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:45am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Since late February I have cut my monthly spending to an average 28% of previous 2019 months.
  
  No trips, no fast foods, no dining out, no new clothes, no booze, no vehicle upgrades, no home improvements, no new tools, — nothing except food, rates, insurance, gas, and essential meds / disposables etc.
  
  I still have a job but the writing for that is on the wall – via HR communiques… That job parrot is not pining for the fjords.
  
  Speaking to colleagues and neighbours, most are doing similar if not as drastically.
  
  Now looking for a (not-physical) place to store any money I can save before we get ubertaxed by the Commie in Chief.
  
  8 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 12:40pm
  - gorse
    
    A pity the Government didn’t exercise the same restraint when they constructed their disastrous budget.
    
    6 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:00pm
Tomtoddy

Have just seen Michelle Boag’s comments on Newshub. What a treacherous turncoat. As shallow as a puddle.

National supporters need to take a breath and think. Just a few week ago National was polling in the high 40’s and well able to govern with a resurgent ACT.

The virus episode has given Ardern publicity like the country has never seen before. The media played into her hands as she milked the kindness meme.

So, Arden rose fast in the polls and that tells you she can also fall fast. The crisis was tailor-made for Ardern’s style but the recovery period is not her thing. She cannot turn job losses and bankruptcies into a ‘nice’ story.

If Bridges and National come over as trustworthy and knowledgeable about business and recovering economies and can do so pleasantly and seriously the polls will turn around very surprisingly.
28 3
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:48am
- emmess
  
  In the campaign, National will need to keep hammering comparisons with Australia.
  Ardern will try to bring up other countries, particularly America, but they will need to dismiss the comparison immediately as the coronavirus hit there in winter.
  
  10 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:00am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Have you missed the tacit approval that NZ and Aussie will share a bubble?
    
    1 11
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:14pm
    - Jack5
      
      Brian McD: An Australia-NZ bubble has been only tacitly approved in Canberra, as you suggest. As the big partner Australia decide if and when we get one.
      
      Jacindarella won’t have firmed up the Aussies’ minds with her suggestion that Pacific Islands be brought into the bubble.
      
      Then there’s the matter of Behrouz Boochani, who is both a critic of Australian refugee policy and apparently an overstayer in New Zealand. Would he get into Australia if there were a trans-Tasman bubble?
      
      5 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 2:02pm
    - emmess
      
      What has that go to do with it?
      I am talking about the much smaller hit that the Aussie economy is going to take compared to ours
      
      3 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 3:20pm
- Jack5
  
  Michelle Boag’s of the same shallow PR-type background as Jacinderella.
  
  The lightweight PR mob are so bewitched by the latest polls they can’t see we are about to slide into an economic hole and what happens down there will decide the election.
  
  You can tell the flakes in the centre, centre-right, and right of NZ politics by the frequency they are heard on Red Radio. Boag is one of them.
  
  12 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:38am
- sam green
  
  When is Boag back in court?
  
  3 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:26am
- gorse
  
  Watch today’s Mikes minute. An excellent view on this affair.
  
  1 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 12:41pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump taking hydroxychloroquine. Hope it’s the sulphate and not the phosphate.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-trump-takes-disputed-medicine-as-preventative-measure-against-covid-19-11990688
5 1
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:59am
- mikenmildagain
  
  How about drinking the bleach as well?
  
  5 16
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:25am
  - burt
    
    Given the choice of living under 70% taxes and no freedom I’ll take the bleach.
    
    13 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 10:43am
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      That’s sad you feel that way. It’s also highly unlikely that anyone in NZ would be taxed 70% of their earnings.
      
      4 15
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 11:42am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        If the socialists stay in power come Sept, NZ will be a Venezuela in 5 to 8 years. Ardern and Robertson will fuck this Country if they are giver the opportunity
        
        16 2
        Report
        May 19, 2020 12:17pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Not one for dipping into the the history books are you SG?
        
        7 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 12:38pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The loopy left in the US are now spinning that hydroxychloroquine sulfate can cause people to get Covid 19. Don’t they ever stop with fake news?
  
  12 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:06am
  - burt
    
    I was reading about the Dengue fever vaccine before, apparently they found that any children under 9 who were vaccinated with it were massively worse off if they were exposed to Dengue. Most died.
    
    I guess this explains why with rapid vaccine development going on they need to be indemnified from any harm it causes.
    
    But, since we as a nation voted to go for elimination rather than flattening the curve and building herd immunity I guess we all accepted that known risk.
    
    5 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:31am
    - burt
      
      Oops, type – make that immunidy
      
      5 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 12:46pm
- grumpy
  
  Yes, the NZ MSM goes full retard;
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12332968
  My wife has been taking Plaquinil for 20 years with no side effects for Rheumatoid Arthritis.
  Most health professionals in the US are taking it. A study of 65,000 people with RA in Italy (most of the elderly) were tested and only 20 returned positive for KungFlu, all of those were only mildly affected.
  French research has shown excellent results but the researchers, previously hailed as leaders in their field have now been vilified because Orange Man Bad.
  
  12 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:42am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Not quite sure but I think my brother takes it for gout
    
    5 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:19pm
  - Jules99
    
    You gotta give him credit – not only did he talk the talk, he walked the walk and is actually taking it. I think that will impress most people.
    
    3 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:42pm
    - Batman
      
      Even Fox News is alarmed that he’s taking an unproven drug though… Awkward
      
      Fox News’ Neil Cavuto on Trump’s announcement that he’s taking hydroxychloroquine: “If you are in a risky population here, and you are taking this as a preventative treatment … it will kill you. I cannot stress enough. This will kill you.” https://t.co/e6D5alfAgc
      
      3 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:32pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Obviously not.
        
        2 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 3:01pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        What is unproven, other than it may oy may not help with Covid 19? Come on Batman.
        Been around for 40+ years – malaria, arthritis and quite a few other things. Now if you do not have those illnesses, then taking the drug hydroxy will do you no harm.
        If it should fix some with Covid, then that is a bonus!!
        Burn the village down to save the people. Jesus.
        
        4 1
        Report
        May 19, 2020 3:32pm
burt

So cycling on footpaths is safe but e-scooters are not.

Wake up people.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300015490/cycling-on-footpaths-could-lead-to-one-death-a-year-but-have-a-10m-upside-report-says
16 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 10:01am
The only red for me is that of Manchester United

I don’t hold out much hope for a National victory this election. I do urge the party to stay with Simon until early 2021. Christopher Luxton gives me the creeps. I don’t like the strategy to parachute in a successful business leader thinking that this will be the silver bullet. I feel the public would have no taste for this either. I’d rather have a leader who wants to be there because of the difference they can make. Not to help pad out their CV. For me in 2023 I’d be endorsing Denise Lee as leader. A very hard working and high profiled Auckland MP. She comes from a good family of politicians. She’s done her time as an Auckland councillor and has been in parliament now for short time. Perhaps not having a cabinet portfolio might go against her. However time to promote her. For deputy, Hamish Walker. MP for Clutha-Southland. He’s done good work with the Maternity Hospital issue in Southland. With those two you have a good mix of age, gender and urban rural divide, North Island/South Island. If not 2023, then 2026. I don’t see Arden going three terms. Collins, Kaye, Bennett. Yesterdays’ people.

Many on KB love to mock the prime minister’s degree in communication. Labour own the narrative and the language. Bumper sticker slogans have resonation with the public. “A team of five million”, “Hard and early”, “Be Kind”, Kiwis are being fleeced at the pumps”. People aren’t going to remember the amendment to the freshwater act 2019, but they remember those sound bites. They are just as effective as the “Iwi/Kiwi” billboards.
13 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 10:10am
- Martin Williams
  
  Yep. Ironic that one of the things the RW like to criticise in Ardern, her degree, is one of her greatest assets. And she’s used it to crush the National Party and their playground bully groupies into the dust.
  
  4 17
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 12:32pm
  - gorse
    
    I don’t think so Martyn, watch this space.
    
    5 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:56pm
- Tall Man
  
  “They are just as effective as the “Iwi/Kiwi” billboards”
  
  You are crediting ardern too much.
  
  Flippant and glib is not what a country needs but that is all ardern has got.
  
  Don’t believe me, watch her when anyone dares go off script with her.
  
  9 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 1:45pm
HemiT

if China didn’t want to be investigated , then they should have just said no instead of hitting out with trade sanctions and bizzare claims of taiwan takeovers and threatening the bilateral agreement with NZ .
so good for Xi Jinping making amends and even further allowing an audit into covid-19 .

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?

https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/05/general_debate_18_may_2020.html#comment-2718239c_id=2&objectid=12332931
7 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 10:39am
- HemiT
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12332931
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/05/general_debate_18_may_2020.html#comment-2718239
  
  3 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 10:46am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Virus-exporter Xi will only allow an investigation “when the time is right”. I.e. the 25th of Never…
  
  4 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 12:37pm
Jack5

Talking to a butcher at the re-opened shop and heard how terribly the butchers were treated under the lockdown.

The butchery had just had its meat delivered, then without warning was told to close down.

This, while halaal butchers were allowed to trade on.

The shut-off with stock would have hit the business of the young Auckland butcher who committed suicide.

For others who adulate Jacindarella over NZ’s Covid-19 response, consider Taiwan: four times as many people, fewer Wuhan flu cases and deaths than NZ, and business has kept trading through its control measures.

Butchers voting for Jacindarella? I don’t think so.
21 3
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 11:07am
- burt
  
  This, while halaal butchers were allowed to trade on.
  
  All animals are equal Comrade.
  
  14 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:35am
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  But the halal butchers weren’t allowed to trade on. This has been debunked so many times but keeps on coming back, like a bad meme.
  
  5 22
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:44am
  - gorse
    
    I drove past one during level four several times. It was open.
    
    16 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:25pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I saw them trading in my location.
    
    17 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:36pm
  - burt
    
    Yeah, you keep telling us the official line and we’ll be required to forget what we saw in the real world.
    
    14 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:47pm
    - Simon Gotlieb
      
      Seriously, guys, one or two people not obeying the rules doesn’t mean EVERYBODY is breaking the rules. Seriously…
      
      1 15
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:30pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        “Debunked so many times”
        Seriously? Examples? or opinions like Mike does.
        He sprays and walks away, never to be seen until the next Fraser house deflection
        
        2 2
        Report
        May 19, 2020 3:35pm
  - Jack5
    
    Simon Gotlieb: the claim by poster McDonald and now you, that halaal butcheries were NOT allowed to trade on is what is untrue. It is you who are repeating a bad meme, one that has been debunked before.
    
    I repeat what I have posted before:
    
    Halaal butchers
    
    Halaal butchers may open, but orders need to be taken online or by phone. Customers cannot enter the premises. Meat should either be collected outside the store, or delivered direct to the home.
    
    This is from this official NZ Government Covid-19 site, in the section: Advice to Muslim Communities.
    
    https://covid19.govt.nz/communities/religious-communities/
    
    10 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:51pm
    - Jack5
      
      To Simon Gotlieb: are you going to admit your statement that halaal butchers were not allowed to trade during the covid-19 lockdown is untrue and incorrect?
      
      Perhaps your apology is in the moderation queue. ?
      
      7 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 2:31pm
      - Tall Man
        
        You’re a funny guy;)
        
        5 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 3:09pm
    - gorse
      
      You’re wasting your time jack, he’ll only believe what he wants to believe. He and Labour deserve each other.
      
      7 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 3:10pm
- Martin Williams
  
  A smart business person would have checked what was likely to happen before doing a…big meat order.
  
  1 25
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 12:28pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    We were all told that food suppliers were allowed to open. Butchers are food suppliers. MBIE were also under that impression. The Government made the last minute decision to override common sense. They should have accounted for the stupidity of Cabinet but maybe they were being relentlessly positive.
    
    17 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:49pm
    - burt
      
      I think your memory has failed you comrade, we voted on this decision at the same time as we voted to go for elimination and wait for a vaccine.
      
      8 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:05pm
      - Jack5
        
        Lefty Martin Williams says of the lockdown discrimination against non-Muslim butchers: “A smart business person would have checked what was likely to happen.”
        
        Checked? Does he mean? Research what happened in the 1918 Spanish flu (butchers closed – I don’t think so)?
        
        Or should hundreds of suburban butchers have jammed the phone lines to the Wellington bureaucrats to ask whether they were thinking of shutting down butcheries unless they were Muslim or departments of supermarkets?
        
        3 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 4:53pm
  - burt
    
    A smart government would have announced the 4 step plan, socialised it and made sure the steps and the rules under each were clear before starting at level 2 and jumping to level 4 within a week with nobody knowing what the rules were. Even the Health minister was confused.
    
    But sure, lets pretend the business was poorly run.
    
    12 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:49pm
  - gorse
    
    Martyn you are suffering a memory loss and you are not a business person. The lockdown happened rapidly. So rapidly I didn’t know about it until I walked into my dentists surgery on the Monday morning and it was big news on his TV. Many businesses will have had orders in a week or more before delivery, and be unable to turn them off. Meat delivered on Monday, before the announcement and the lockdown starting midnight Wednesday, think about it, meat that can’t be returned so it would be lost. Keep voting Labour, you deserve them.
    
    17 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:54pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  I seem to recall that halal butchers were similarly affected but then an exemption was made for them.
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 6:55pm
Maggie Pie

I thought i’d run this by the group for some possible advice (?)
My partners mum has a substantial TD due to mature with Westpac at the end of June, but to renew for another 3 years, would see her having to accept an interest rate in the low 2’s. Effectively halving her income.
Now she’s heard a company advertising on 1ZB called ‘Rockfort Marketing’ that might be worth investing with. Does anyone know anything about them?
She thought the name sounded very solid.
5 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 11:14am
- barnacle bill
  
  Do you remember the advert featuring Colin Meads ?
  Safe as I reckon, he said.
  But it wasn’t.
  
  Your husbands choice.
  But not for me.
  
  8 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:40am
- brett68
  
  Come men folk rather around and help this poor naive “woman”, she needs your advice and guidance.
  
  2 10
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 11:43am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Hey brett – whats with all the snide remarks? Everyone here knows your the phantom down-ticker. LOL!!
    
    6 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:40pm
- Martin Williams
  
  Tell her to donate it to the Labour Party. ‘Tis better to give than to receive…
  
  5 9
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 12:24pm
  - Swifty
    
    What political favours would it buy her?
    
    What is the going rate nowadays within the Labour party?
    
    13 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 12:52pm
  - freethinker
    
    Doubt Labour would welcome receiving what I have planned to give them.Be careful what you ask for.
    
    2 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 3:35pm
- Jules99
  
  Now would be a good time to invest in gold and silver.
  
  4 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 12:39pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Lol
    
    3 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:21pm
    - gorse
      
      You’re right of course Jules. Gold and silver are going to be worth a fortune. Already record high in NZ Dollars, Morris and Watson, NZ’s major bullion dealers, have gold today at $2952 per ounce. The $600 per ounce on a lot of ounces I spent a few years ago looks pretty good now. The best investment I have ever made, beating my properties in percentage terms. Red can lol all he likes, shows him to be a fool.
      
      1 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 3:07pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    What about Bit Coin?
    
    3 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:37pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  If it’s the Forex Rockfort their words are “Please be sure to fully understand the risks involved before trading with us.”
  This is the real problem with low interest rates, savers do not get a fair rate of return. Ticket clippers are in abundance too.
  
  I have significant research on the share market and the influence of monetary movements and would not like to advise anyone at present even if was legally permissible. Westpac survived the last crash so are reasonable safe. That is about as much as can be reasonably hoped for at this time. Some people will make fortunes. Others will borrow or sell up to get capital and lose it all on gambled feelings. Care wins.
  
  7 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 2:20pm
- GJM
  
  Shop around and look at splitting it across several banks and terms, rather than locking in all of it to one place for a long term. That will get you flexibility and some security by spreading it around. Given the upcoming Depression, I would play it safe. Maybe put a bit into index sharemarket funds if you have a long term view
  
  0 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 27, 2020 7:55pm
krazykiwi

The Choice is Yours … Choose Wisely.
2 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 12:08pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://babylonbee.com/news/government-announces-lock-down-of-all-fast-food-restaurants-to-prevent-heart-disease?fbclid=IwAR2JAtNXsf8l6teoxn46UmKEvNnQHAnzVwmpuwGzbVtwR1XSXZHBiWop0oQ
5 3
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 12:33pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Oh look, a downticker with no sense of humour. Must be a rabid leftie
  
  5 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 1:47pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Is there any other kind?
    
    1 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 6:30pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Beats lightbulbs and showerheads.
  
  0 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 6:31pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rcbzcJBzGU
Elon Musk gets red pilled. Harveywood unamused.
Asks all his Twit-ter followers to take the red pill.
3 2
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 12:45pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEgOU68SWx8
Three months for America to get back to normal.
2 2
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 12:46pm
I remember when

A lot of panic going on when the answer is obvious.
All National have to do is get George Clooney to stand.
It will halve the female vote, gain the gay male vote and influence the Facebook, Twitter and Social Media vote.
Let’s not pretend this has a lot of do with running the country. It is influenced by the fear of the masses flamed by the sensation seeking press.
14 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 12:46pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  How about a star from ‘reality’ TV?
  
  2 7
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 1:12pm
  - Batman
    
    Labour already have a weatherman, so that’s probably enough for Parliament to put up with.
    
    9 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:34pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      How about Terry Serepisos? Failed property developer and ‘star’ of The Apprentice New Zealand. Could be as close as we could get to a Trump.
      
      3 9
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:43pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        You love President Donald Trump don’t you Mike.
        Trump has Hotels and Golf Clubs all over the World, yet you would struggle to spend a week at Sky City unless other people’s money paid for it.
        Mike, as a State Sector bludger, you are fired – FIRED!!
        Mods, do something about this virus on KB
        
        7 5
        Report
        May 19, 2020 3:44pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Weatherperson.
      
      1 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 3:07pm
Swifty

Compare our pipsqueak politicians against this woman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoIZdEBf9Wk

How poorly we are served.
7 1
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 12:50pm
Fletch

Barr has come out and said that, yes, what happened to Trump in the 2016 election was unprecedented and an abuse of power, should never happen again, but he doesn’t think Obama or Biden will be prosecuted. I think they should be, myself.

“What happened to the president in the 2016 election and throughout the first two years of his administration was abhorrent. It was a grave injustice and it was unprecedented in American history,” Barr said. “The law enforcement and intelligence apparatus of this country were involved in advancing a false and utterly baseless Russian collusion narrative against the president. The proper investigative and prosecutorial standards of the Department of Justice were abused in my view in order to reach a particular result. We saw two different standards of justice emerge, one that applied to President Trump and his associates, and the other that applied to everybody else. We can’t allow this ever to happen again.”

“”As to President Obama and Vice President Biden, whatever their level of involvement based on the information I have today, I don’t expect Mr. Durham’s work will lead to a criminal investigation of either man. Our concern over potential criminality is focused on others. The Durham investigation is trying to get to the bottom of what happened. And it will determine whether there were any federal laws broken and if there were, those who broke the law will be held to account. But this cannot be and it will not be a tit-for-tat exercise. We are not going to lower the standards just to achieve a result. The only way to stop this vicious cycle, the only way to break away from a dual system of justice, is to make sure that we scrupulously apply the single and proper standard of justice for everybody.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02teAd7FVc4
13 2
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 12:54pm
- Batman
  
  Well that’s fucking hilarious given the proven evidence of what occurred.
  
  Even more so now that Trump is firing anyone who investigates or questions his people.
  
  Biden has said he will not pardon Trump… So Trump better hope he wins!
  
  5 11
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 1:36pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I still think the Barr/Durham jack-up will see some indictments before the election. Not long enough before the election for the cases to unravel, but some raw meat for the ‘base’. Such cases would then fizzle out after the election, regardless of who wins.
    
    3 9
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:58pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Proven evidence !?! Surely you are not referring to the Horowitz report and it’s understated tales of malfeasance by the previous administration. Or is that sort of evidence not to your liking ?
    
    Me, I’ll wait to see who Durham indicts, but I’d be inclined to bet that neither Obama nor Biden will be included in that. Almost regardless of the crimes they commit, ex Presidents are by convention not pursued after their terms.
    
    It’s also a convention that outgoing presidents ensure a smooth and non controversial handover to their successor, pity Obama didn’t follow that tradition.
    
    Just as an example, Obama invoked new punitive sanctions against Russia just 20 odd days before leaving office, and he did not, again against convention, consult with Trump about that. By contrast in 1992/3 Bush Snr embarked on an ambitious move to put troops into Somalia after the election but before Clinton was inaugurated. But Clinton was consulted and fully agreed with the actions taken. Ironically that incursion did not go well and Bush took the blame.
    
    7 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 2:10pm
  - Inandout
    
    Bat, old Biden will not remember what he said about Trump. Come on man.
    
    3 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 2:27pm
  - Fletch
    
    Batman, the evidence – more coming out every day – clearly shows that there was an attempt at a soft coup against Trump using the power of the intelligence agencies using warrants obtained fraudulently based on evidence paid for by Hillary and the DNC in cooperation with the Russians.
    Also that spies were put into the Trump campaign. Many of Trump’s people, Flynn, Manafort, Papadopoulos et al, were convicted on (yes) trumped-up charges and weren’t guilty of much. Obama’s fingerprints are all over the Flynn thing, too.
    
    These are indisputable facts.
    
    2 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 4:15pm
- cmm
  
  I take this as a shot across their bows.
  
  Pull your head in boys or you’re going to end up in naughty town.
  
  5 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 1:47pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Seems like Mike and Batman are ganging up.
    No worries cmm.
    Shot across their brows – fixed it for you
    
    3 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 3:49pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      If, when taking a shot across someone’s bow, the bullet travels too close to his brow, would that result in a furrowed brow?
      
      1 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 4:41pm
Maggie Pie

Ever since my partner was given a ‘life-ban’ by WOBH for daring to suggest the big Stag that Cam Slater was photographed posing with had in fact been shot in a Deer Pen, he rarely visits BFD these days.
However, he was interested to get their take on the latest poll results.
Apparently, Cam is saying that Simon doesn’t stand a chance. Gerry Brownlee, Chris Bishop and Todd Mullah, are all busy sticking knifes in his back 🙁
11 1
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 1:20pm
cmm

So the chief coroner says there is no rise in suicides.

Forgive me if I fail to believe this.

I know this is my failing, not theirs. I have a history of failing to believe the shite that comes from MoH mouths:
* Hard and fast
* Better than Oz
* Eliminate/eliminade
* Heaps of flu vaccines, the GPs are messing up. (x3 for this one)
* Heaps of test kits, the GPs are messing up.
* Heaps of test kits,, the labs are messing up.
* Heaps of PPEs, everyone has what they need.
* 80,000 will die.
* A physicist is our best expert on how a virus spreads.
* Maoris worse off because the health system is racist.
* We have over 500 ventilators + over 200 on order. Oops, no, just 350.
* The best way to serve people is to shut down all the hospitals, even when they are not treating any CV19 patients.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121556568/chief-coroner-opposes-rumours-suicide-rate-increased-during-covid19-lockdown
16 4
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 1:23pm
- Simon Gotlieb
  
  Well, you can choose not to believe facts, that is your prerogative. But the fact does remain, that during lockdown our suicide rate was the lowest for 12 years.
  
  There was a LOT of talk on here and on twitter (wasn’t there Judith?) where these claims were made, and quite frankly, it was awful.
  
  Rather than continue to deny, best thing would be to say, okay, we were wrong, and we can all move on.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12333030
  
  5 17
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 1:26pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    You do know that a suicide is not officially classed as such so soon after it takes place?
    
    And how can a coroner say there is no uptick in suicides when no inquests have taken place?
    
    You do know that police and medical staff are in the best position to know what has happened soon after a suicide takes place?
    
    And you know know they are not allowed to comment publicly (for good and obvious reasons under normal circumstances)?
    
    You do not? Ah well.
    
    13 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 1:31pm
    - Batman
      
      That’s like saying nobody dies in a car crash until someone ticks a box on a form several weeks later.
      
      Statistically it might be correct but it is utterly ridiculous to anyone in the real world.
      
      7 9
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 1:39pm
      - cmm
        
        No, you are making the wrong comparison.
        
        In a car crash, the police/whatever can immediately say that someone died in a car crash. However it is up to the coroner to assign a cause (eg. was it the drink driving or was it going too fast)?
        
        Same deal with assigning a suicide. Someone is lying there dead: was it an accidental overdose or was it suicide?
        
        9 2
        Report
        May 19, 2020 1:52pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        …and some car crashes are suicides but that doesn’t get found out until a lot of pathology and history is examined. just some crack crashes are the result of “medical events” not careless driving… But that also doesn’t get found out until a lot of pathology results are back. When you talk about the ‘real world’, that phrase does not mean what you think it means buckwheat.
        
        3 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 6:33pm
  - cmm
    
    Gotlieb: Yes I have already fully acknowledged that it is my failure to believe.
    
    Which “facts” should I believe and which “facts” are Ok to disbelieve?
    
    Unfortunately I find it hard to believe statements from a body who have shot their credibility themselves.
    
    Should I have believed 80,000 would die? Or 14,000, or 27,000? Or maybe none of those?
    
    Should I believe that we had enough flu vaccines when my GP (who I quite literally trust with my life) says they ran short three, or was it four, times due to supply issues?
    
    Should I believe that Maori are 2.5x more likely to die of CV19 because of institutional racism rather than because of biological factors – many of their making?
    
    But, hey, don’t worry about all those. The suicide statement is correct. It must be. They said so.
    
    19 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 2:02pm
    - Jack5
      
      Gotlieb has no credibililty. See also his bulldust about halaal butchers in the post above.
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 4:12pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    I would like to believe it and hope it’s true.
    Those interviews included a number of Jacinda phrases and mitigating arguments etc though which is worrying. They shouldn’t be talking in political speak. The only figures that will come out before the election will be the first week effectively and there will be no pre-election accountability for anything after. That seems problematic.
    
    6 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 2:28pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Some days before the twitter story broke, Professor Gluckman raised the issue of suicide at the Epidemic Response Committee. A few days earlier his thinktank Koi Tū: Centre for Informed Futures on Friday, had released a report thatpredicted the country’s already high rates of depression and anxiety among young people will increase, along with the suicide rate.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121052665/coronavirus-suicide-ptsd-to-rise-significantly-after-covid19-report-predicts
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121052665/coronavirus-suicide-ptsd-to-rise-significantly-after-covid19-report-predicts
    
    Based on other disasters, about 10 per cent of the population would develop depression and there would be some who are suicidal, he said.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12328472
    
    11 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 2:37pm
    - Tall Man
      
      And some of those will take a while to manifest the issue.
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 3:05pm
    - Jack5
      
      Triggers of suicide seem to be many and various.
      
      For example, during “The Troubles” violence in Northern Ireland suicide rates fell.
      
      They are now surging, and some blame PTSD – Northern Ireland has the highest rate of 17 countries surveyed in 2017.
      
      The Mayo Clinic says that PTSD is caused by ” a terrifying event — either experiencing it or witnessing it.”
      
      “Koi Tu: The Centre for Informed Futures,” the Auckland University group which describes itself as a “political think tank and research centre,” has been forecasting a substantial rise in PTSD in NZ after the pandemic lockdown.
      
      Does that Wuhan flu pandemic reaction fit with “witnessing a horrific event”?
      
      PTSD from violence – the Ulster story:
      
      https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/01/world/europe/northern-ireland-suicide.html
      
      Auckland University warning of PTSD from the lockdown:
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/121052665/coronavirus-suicide-ptsd-to-rise-significantly-after-covid19-report-predicts
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 4:26pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  “However, there have been concerning reports of a reported rise in suicide rates during alert level 4. In the interests of addressing this, I can confirm based on the provisional numbers I have, this is incorrect.”
  You really think the chief coroner would lie about this?
  You have it worse than I thought.
  
  6 15
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 1:55pm
  - cmm
    
    To run with your argument:
    
    Do you really think the PM would lie about hard and fast?
    Do you really think She would lie about tens of thousands gonna die?
    Do you really think they’d lie about the availability of flu vaccines?
    Do you really think they would lie about the availability of PPE, ventilators, testing resources?
    Do you really think they would lie about doing better than Oz?
    
    In comparison, lying about which boxes to tick about why someone died is small potatoes.
    
    Yes, you’re right I really must have it bad.
    
    I did acknowledge it is all on me – my failure to believe.
    
    16 6
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 2:34pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You are accusing the chief coroner of lying. Maybe that doesn’t seem crazy to you when you write it down, but it is crazy nonetheless.
      
      6 8
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 3:10pm
      - sam green
        
        That twitter storm came straight outta Helensville via Rodney.
        
        3 4
        Report
        May 19, 2020 5:39pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Jeez Wayne (classic Kiwi TV expression). There haven’t been any relevant coronial inquests for the period in question yet, not least because of the need to not convene everybody closely together in the Coroner’s Court. Sigh…
        
        2 0
        Report
        May 19, 2020 6:35pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Did they have Covid19?
    
    1 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 5:24pm
- krazykiwi
  
  I’ll bookmark Marshall’s claim and come back to check later, presumably once the data had been ‘adjusted’ and published.
  
  If her claim is true, and I have my doubts, it will be the first ever time in a modern, western country where an increase in social/economic hardship has led to a decrease in suicides.
  
  So this doesn’t pass the sniff test.
  
  6 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 3:56pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Further:
  
  Carla na Nagara, the director of the Suicide Prevention Office, endorsed the Chief Coroner’s statement.
  :::
  “While the Covid-19 response may have significant, long term effects on people’s lives, an increase in suicides is NOT inevitable.
  
  That is a wishful, glass-is-half-full statement which would be laudable and positive from anyone other than the director of the Suicide Prevention Office.
  
  But from her it’s at best foolishness, and at worst lying.
  
  She will have all the research, all the data, and all the evidence that shows her own statement to be utter nonsense.
  
  3 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 4:14pm
barnacle bill

rererangihirihiri

3 2 ReportMay 19, 2020 1:36pm
I agree with you rereranigihi.

I don’t agree with the notion of MP,s gaining safe seats because of them knowing some one in high places.
The likes of Luxon and the useless member for Waimakariri , one Mr Doocey.
It is far better to have candidates get their on their own merit.

If the polls are correct and National face a wipe out , then these two are the likes that National will have to rely on to rebuild.
And that will not fill the loyal National voters with much confidence in the years ahead.

On another issue, where is the National Party President ?
He seems to have very little to say these days.
3 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 2:49pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  The good folk of Waimakariri have twice elected Doocey BB, which suggests he might be more effective than you give him credit for. He has been particularly vocal about roading issues in the electorate, and the people I know who live in those parts seem pretty happy.
  
  Mind you, Clayton Cosgrove was once the MP for Waimakariri…
  
  2 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 7:30pm
  - barnacle bill
    
    Thanks Tony for bringing that matter up.
    As a lifelong resident of Nth Canterbury, and Woodend in particular I am well aware of the value of Doocey.
    He is and always will be seen as a one trick wonder.
    
    If as you say he has been a successful MP for the Waimak, why did he not get the Woodend Bypass done while National were in power or nine years ?
    And his old Uncle was sitting in the speakers chair ?
    I suspect his majority will erode this election, as is his complete lack activity in the electorate.
    And what role does he play within the Opposition ?
    Apart from the odd select committee , I don’t see him as a major player , apart from sitting in a safe seat.
    Boundary changes have allowed him that luxury.
    He will never be anything other than a seat warmer.
    A Chch kid that got lucky.
    
    2 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 8:16pm
Happychappy

Well I don’t know about others on here but I definitely won’t be downloading the digital dairy that Jacinda and the Health Director are launching tomorrow.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=1233309
How could you trust this Jacinda with your details of where you are every minute of the day especially with how the power has already gone to her head.
8 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 2:54pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  No way no how do I want a government spy app walking round with me.
  
  3 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 6:35pm
Michael

It has to be Judith Collins to replace Simon Bridges, if he is actually a goner. I said this when he was made leader of the National Party and I am saying it again now.
I am not worried about her history with Whale Oil.
So far as I am concerned she did well there. And look how she was on to that Canadian schmuck whatshisname, the bloke that reckoned David Bain was innocent. Collins was all over him like a rash. Pity she lost her job as Justice Minister, she wouldn’t have paid Karam/Bain a brass razoo.
Author The Bain Killings Whodunnit? and soon to be releasing an ebook The Bain Family Murders with new revelations that leave no doubt as to who the perpetrator was.
4 7
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 2:56pm
- Tall Man
  
  Replacing the leader of the National party is political suicide.
  
  I believe the team behind him trust him enough to let him have a crack.
  
  Will he win, I think so and hope so but if not, only a fool would sheet the responsibility home to him.
  
  It is a shame that our media carries so much influence but expect there to be big changes over the next 16 weeks as they all jockey to be the “breaker” of the “scoop” [ modded ]
  
  4 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 4:11pm
  - Tall Man
    
    while ardern shits herself………
    
    Why should that be deleted?
    
    Would not the “scoops” that lead her to defeat giver her the shits?
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:40pm
- Happychappy
  
  Bullshit that’s what Labour want ,she is damaged goods and hasn’t a hope in hell of getting the people behind her, out of the fat and into the frying pan.
  
  3 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 5:01pm
Michael

No shortage of the flu vaccine at the clinic my wife and I go to, they actually phoned us and asked if we would like to come in and have our yearly jab, which we did the next day. Perhaps our clinic is better organised than some of those that ran out.
0 5
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 3:04pm
- chaos
  
  Or perhaps they just haven’t had much of a demand for them. I know my clinic that has 10,000 patients is only allowed to order 50 vaccines at a time. They had no flu clinic today because there were no vaccines available
  
  3 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 6:06pm
Manolo

Trumps vs the (Chinese) WHO:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/19/trump-threatens-to-permanently-cut-off-who-funding-withdraw-us-membership.html

President Donald Trump threatened to permanently cut off U.S. funding of the World Health Organization, in a letter dated Monday that he shared on Twitter.

In the letter, the president said his administration’s review of how the WHO responded to the coronavirus outbreak “confirmed many of the serious concerns I raised last month.”
3 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 3:33pm
I remember when

It is only now that many people are starting to find that they are unemployed.
Until now they may have had serious concerns but they were still getting a wage. So they were getting a wage, able to potter around home on a pet project and the weather was mostly warm and the sun was shining.
The danger of covid-19 seemed to be continuing to diminish and to be under increasing control and we were at our rightful “first in the world to exterminate coronavirus.”
How could the Government not increase their share of the vote?
5 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 3:38pm
Maggie Pie

MagicRadio has John Banks filling in Ryan Bridges slot all this week.
I caught him yesterday afternoon – WHAT. A. HOOT 😀
8 1
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 3:41pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Just listening now. John is saying the new Police Commissioner comes across as weak, indecisive, but politically correct. He said Helen Clarke would have been a far better choice. LOL!!
  
  11 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 4:32pm
Alex13

Simon Bridges’ “…there’s no hair dye. Just saying” is so pathetic, small-minded, petty. And this little intellectual midget wants to become the next Prime Minister of a country?! Not a Labour fan I am at all, but I say God help us all if these are the kind of alternatives that we have.
2 10
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 4:48pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  You’re right, it’s totally over the top to discuss hair dye.
  
  What we should all rather want is someone in charge of the country who takes life-changing economy -crashing decisions for the whole population of 5 million on the basis of a phone call with some panicking Pom-frenz in London.
  
  5 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 6:37pm
- Tall Man
  
  Much better eh …
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig
  
  Fuckwit.
  
  4 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 6:57pm
  - Martin Williams
    
    How many times have you posted that clip? Here’s a tip – it’s not damaging and your love of it outs you as a complete loon.
    
    1 7
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 7:35pm
    - Tall Man
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig
      
      You support her and I’m the loon?
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 9:24pm
- Martin Williams
  
  “Intellectual midget” is being kind, but a good description of limo-loving Simon Bridges all the same.
  
  0 6
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 7:36pm
Monique Watson

I see that hag Tova O’Brien is reporting that MPs are undermining Bridges openly but won’t say who.
There’s no-one really to replace Bridges in the coming election. Do these child-women journalists not remember the debacle that was the Davids becoming Leader of Labour one after another before getting rolled? National would be at risk of the David phenomenon if a move is made on Bridges.
9 2
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 4:48pm
- Batman
  
  It’ll be Mark Mitchell I reckon. He thinks he’s fucking Nostradamus when he’s really Baldrick
  
  7 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 6:11pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Has he still got Lusk running his operations for him?
    
    1 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 6:22pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Banksie on MagicTalk reckons its Todd Mullah.
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 6:27pm
    - kowtow
      
      Better relations with Iran that way.
      
      0 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 7:32pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I think you’ll find it’s Todd Muller. Not a particularly high public profile, but he’s very good in the House, and had a strong career with Fonterra and the Kiwifruit Board.
      
      2 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 7:32pm
  - Martin Williams
    
    Mitchell is pure poison.
    
    If Kiwibloggers think they’ve seen Police State in the last eight weeks, wait for Mitchell…
    
    2 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 7:31pm
- Ian Boag
  
  And that hag Monique …..
  
  0 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 7:51pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Bill Gates wants us to be microchipped, and Dr Fauci wants us to carry vaccine papers.
Man, I did not see NAZI that coming
4 3
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 5:05pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  No one is forcing you to suspend disbelief when you trawl through the clogosphere.
  
  3 9
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 5:46pm
MJHNZ

7.6m for Māori carving in Rotorua today – WTF!!!!
7 1
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 5:24pm
- Tall Man
  
  Shush, we’re bagging Simon Bridges today, didn’t you read ardern’s memo?
  
  2 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 6:55pm
Happychappy

Winston Peter’s heading back to court over his Pension claims as he doesn’t like the Judges findings and now says he knows who leaked his Pension details according to Barry Soper.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12333210
Seems the poll results last night that had NZ First on 2.7% might also have something to do with it. This leech will do anything to stay on the taxpayer tit.
9 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 5:28pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  I think he probably also doesn’t want to have damages awarded against him. Wants to string it out…
  
  7 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 6:38pm
chaos

* A disastrous poll, a looming no-confidence vote and pressure on Simon Bridges to stand down or be pushed. Meanwhile, the potential contenders for his job start the race to 28: the number of MPs needed for a majority in National’s caucus. Claire Trevett looks at what is happening in the National Party.

National Party leader Simon Bridges is expected to face a no-confidence vote when his caucus meets next Tuesday unless a second poll shows a change in fortune for his party.

Several senior MPs have told the Herald they are now expecting a vote on Bridges’ leadership after a dire Newshub Reid Research poll put the party on just 30.6 per cent.*

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12333166
1 6
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 5:40pm
- chaos
  
  * National MPs have told Newshub the numbers are being done to roll Simon Bridges, with one of them – David Bennett – even putting it in writing, telling a constituent “we’re working on it”…..
  
  But the feedback on Simon Bridges was not so positive.
  
  ‘Idiot’ topped the chart, followed by ‘don’t know’, ‘average’, ‘good’, ‘annoying’, ‘weak’, ‘useless’, ‘unsure’ and ‘disappointing’.*
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/national-mps-doing-the-numbers-on-simon-bridges-as-newshub-poll-shows-what-kiwis-think-of-him.html
  
  3 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 6:31pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    What is Tova’s problem? Hang on in there Simon you must be doing a lot right to piss them off so much.
    
    2 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:28pm
- chaos
  
  * The National Party caucus may have had a sleepless night after Monday’s catastrophic polling, but former Prime Minister Jim Bolger believes he has a solution.
  
  Bolger told RNZ’s Checkpoint that MP Todd Muller had the attributes to be National’s next leader.*
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12333250
  
  2 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 7:08pm
mikenmildagain

Winston Peters is appealing a High Court judgement against him, saying he now knows who leaked his superannuation details in the lead-up to the 2017 election.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/417026/winston-peters-appeals-superannuation-case-decision
6 5
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 5:50pm
- Batman
  
  He thinks he knows, in other words.
  
  8 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 6:13pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Quite possibly just another prong in his election strategy.
    
    9 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 6:19pm
    - niggly
      
      I guess when every TV3 Reid Research poll since the 2017 election has had NZF under the 5% threshold, Winston figures it’s time to play his “let’s get desperate” card!
      
      Trouble is, no one is listening anymore (apart from the solid 2% of NZF loyalists)!
      
      Oh dear!
      
      7 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 19, 2020 7:27pm
    - Rachael Membery
      
      A look at me, look at me flogging the same dead horse? Doing it for the greater good of course.
      The wilderness is calling Wynston.
      
      0 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      May 20, 2020 8:39am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I thought he knew last time, and the time before that. I hope the taxpayer isn’t having to stump up for more legal bills.
    
    10 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 7:34pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    He says that he thinks he knows.
    
    0 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 20, 2020 8:24am
chaos

Could Winston sue himself, heck just stay there until you’re done for the fraud with the foundation too

* The Deputy Prime Minister now knows who leaked his pension details to the media, according to a report – and he’s going back to court to prove it.*

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/05/winston-peters-now-knows-who-pension-leaker-is-is-taking-privacy-case-back-to-court-report.html
11 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 5:59pm
- MrTips
  
  Lol. Well he can’t go after Bennett or Tolley so …
  
  He’s going after the Greens !!!!! Bwahahaha
  
  8 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 6:55pm
  - doggone7
    
    And if it had been your details leaked you wouldn’t have minded?Or Paula Bennett’s? There’s a go! I remember Bennett threatening legal action if stuff about her were made known. Maybe Winston can use Parliamentary privilege to let stuff out. I’m sure all those who think Peters’ info coming out would think that was a real hoot. Wouldn’t they?
    
    0 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 11:19pm
niggly

Bwahaha I had to laugh when I saw the Newshub at 6pm story about Simon Bridges, good grief such dramatics from Tova I wondered if she was seeking nomination for a new academy award – best theatrical performance for a reporter!

Anyway Newshubs central city based Wellington reporters then wandered down Cuba St (probably for their caffeine fix and ya never know Jacinda and Clarke might be in a queue I suppose they may have thought) and of course being lazy they then interviewed the hipsters and alternative leftie types that hang out in Cuba St – well surprise surprise NOT! The lefties all said that Cindy is the coolest and Simon wasn’t!

So talking about today’s big word on KB – confirmation bias! – the lazy reporters said the people spoke!?!?!

Codswallop! Don’t the lazy reporters know you can drive further now under CV Level 2 and maybe leave their inner-city haunts and actually go out into the suburbs, towns and provinces to actually ask a decent cross section of the population what they think of the PM and Leader of the Opposition?

So let’s see will tomorrow night Newshub report from Ponsonby and Kingsland – surprise surprise (NOT!) the lefties there think Cindy is cool and Simon not! Good grief! Useless, utterly useless reporting! How’s that for predicting the future!
6 2
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 7:00pm
Wired-one

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300016182/national-leader-simon-bridges-expected-to-face-no-confidence-vote-next-week

If this is the case and it passes, then I would like to see a Todd Muller, Judith Collins ticket, with Todd as leader. I would prefer Kaye, Collins but Nikki does not want the job. For those of you who havent seen Todd on tv or in person, he is of the same ilk as Key. Todd speaks well, is a well liked member and has the ability to hit the government in the right spot. And with Judith, I would allow her to be the Judith I love, blunt, fiesty, competent and ruthless. This is a winning ticket imo. I’d be interested in other people views? I note that former PM Bolger has also picked Todd.
1 4
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 7:14pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Here’s Todd Muller speaking in the General Debate last Wednesday. He is a very competent speaker, and had a strong corporate career with Fonterra and the Kiwifruit Board before entering Parliament in 2014.
  
  https://ondemand.parliament.nz/parliament-tv-on-demand/?itemId=212269
  
  If he becomes leader, the first thing I would like to see him do is offer Sir Bill English and Steven Joyce the top two positions on National’s List. Get them back to help steer the economy out of the mess that Labour is going to leave it in.
  
  If National doesn’t win the election, English and Joyce could simply forfeit their places, but to have them as part of the team, and promised key oversight roles if National wins could be just what the country and National needs.
  
  3 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 7:41pm
  - chaos
    
    Joyce won’t go back, his new job is far more rewarding and important. English won’t go back. Having your life back after being in such a high stress job, no one wants to go back to that especially with the mess it is going to be in. David Lange nearly bankrupted the country, Jacinda has
    
    4 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 7:47pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    “If National doesn’t win the election, English and Joyce could simply forfeit their places, […].”
    
    Oh, dear, Tony. The latest poll has really shaken you, hasn’t it? You are really starting to lose perspective.
    
    Apart from the fact that both English and Joyce have moved on, where is the integrity in standing for election on the List, getting elected, then promptly resigning if National loses? Neither gentleman would even contemplate engaging in such disgraceful behaviour, behaviour that would almost certainly guarantee Labour a third term.
    
    And what on earth is a National Party provincial apparatchik and, I thought (until today), Simon Bridges fanboi, doing entertaining the idea of leadership spill?
    
    Niggly, below, will be most displeased with you, not to mention many of your fellow party members.
    
    4 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    May 19, 2020 9:12pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Pressure going onto the bureaucrats at Auckland Council

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121554803/coronavirus-job-losses-and-pay-cuts-as-auckland-council-tightens-belt-due-to-covid19
5 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 7:18pm
niggly

Holy cow check this out!

Bolger told Checkpoint that Muller led the National caucus position on climate change and worked with James Shaw to get a unanimous vote across Parliament for the Zero Carbon Bill.

Seriously WTF, Labour loving turncoat Spud Face wants us to support a turncoat in the form of Todd Muller, cuddling up to the loopy tune Green Party and “climate change” fraudsters??

And seriously, like that famous song Alice, who the f**k is Todd Muller? The nobody that occasionally appears on tv saying nothing of interest? Apart from political tragics like us no-one else in NZ knows who he is!

And what bad optics – the balding and nobody Muller verses the Queen of the Glossy Mags and “world favorite” Jacinda Ardern! Talk about National tanking to sub-20!

Please f-off Muller and Kaye – get out campaigning to fight Labour you self-serving closet leftie traitors! National are a Team or did you two twits forget that?!!!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12333250
7 1
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 7:22pm
- barnacle bill
  
  Thats telling them Niggly.
  
  Spot on I might add.
  
  3 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  May 19, 2020 9:08pm
Prince

Is anyone going to download the Government app tomorrow ?
Not me – a good opportunity to make my feelings clear on their command and control policies.
They need 60% uptake to be effective. You don’t have to march in the streets to make your point.
3 0
Log in to Reply
Report
May 19, 2020 9:23pm

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« Bad spending can make a recession worse

Paid Content Survey Results »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 13K other subscribers

Highlights

Target achieved II
Good progress on attendance
Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments

Links

"The principal view of human laws is, or ought always to be, to explain, protect, and enforce such rights as are absolute, which in themselves are few and simple."
Not PC
We Are a Country That Decided Housing Was The Economy
No Minister
My Opening Statement for the UATX Caplan-Jones Immigration Rematch
Utopia
Woman of the day
Hompaddock
Open Mike 04/06/2026
The Standard
Playing with numbers.
Kiwipolitico
A lot of fuss about a simple Bill – its purpose (to make English an official language) is spelled out in 22 words
Point of Order
A crime
No Right Turn
Another non-tariff barrier
Offsetting Behaviour
Rugby Premiership Predictions for Round 18
Stats Chat
Budget 2026
NZCPR
UK Conversion Therapy Ban, Digital ID, Rallies, Elections
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
A central banker’s fiction
Croaking Cassandra
THE WORKING FROM HOME RACKET BY PUBLIC SERVANTS
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
Tory Whanau may have to sell Wellington mayoralty to make ends meet
The Civilian
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Get Vaccinated Tomorrow Or Shut Your Pie Hole
Cactus Kate
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker

[email protected]

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

Facebook
Twitter
FourSquare
Instagram
LinkedIn
Google+

Archives
Disclosure Statement
Editorial Policy
Privacy Policy
Complaints Policy
Comments Policy

Design by cre8d

%d

Share this:

Like this: