General Debate 30 May 2020

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General Debate

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Inandout

Trump dumps WHO, a very faulty and too political setup.
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May 30, 2020 8:02am
- Mike
  
  What are Trump’s alternative plans for international health cooperation?
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:48am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Lots of options. Hopefully including Taiwan.
    
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    May 30, 2020 8:54am
    - MCos
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      I haven’t heard him come up with any.
      From Wikipedia
      “The WHO has played a leading role in several public health achievements, most notably the eradication of smallpox, the near-eradication of polio, and the development of an Ebola vaccine. Its current priorities include communicable diseases, particularly HIV/AIDS, Ebola, malaria and tuberculosis; non-communicable diseases such as heart disease and cancer; healthy diet, nutrition, and food security; occupational health; and substance abuse.“
      So it’s not just Covid-19 that WHO has been involved with in it’s 72 year history.
      
      My impression is that Trump is trying to shift the blame for the 104,323 Covid-19 related US deaths under his watch onto someone else, anyone one else.
      That much is obvious.
      As he said himself on 12-Sept 2005
      “You never blame yourself. You have to blame someone else. If you do something bad, never, ever blame yourself”
      https://twitter.com/redjet73/status/1266452279462367232?s=21
      
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      May 30, 2020 9:23am
      - Steve James
        
        ‘Wikipedia’, There’s a source of accurate information….Not! Especially when it comes to left wing agenda driven people and entities.
        
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        May 30, 2020 9:43am
      - surfing
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Careful, Trump walks on water in the halls of Kiwiblog. Trump could be a baby murderer and kiwibloggers would say it’s the babies fault.
        
        However, I think Trump is right in what he did.
        
        Next, cut funding to the UN….can’t wait.
        
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        May 30, 2020 9:52am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Trump walks on water in the halls of Kiwiblog.
        
        You must be new here.
        
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        May 30, 2020 10:00am
      - burt
        
        You have it the wrong way around, the WHO is trying to shift the blame to Trump. Did you read his timeline of their decisions and actions?
        
        Perhaps if instead of saying there is no evidence of human to human transmission after China had already been locking people in their apartments they had accurately warned the world we’d have had different outcomes?
        
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        May 30, 2020 10:01am
      - RightNow
        
        Models estimated US deaths to be about 2.5 million. If I believe people here saying Cindy has saved thousands of lives, doesn’t that mean Trump has saved millions?
        
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        May 30, 2020 10:29am
      - tf78
        
        WHO were a different animal in those days – they no longer are there for the world at all, they are there for themselves only.
        
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        May 30, 2020 10:31am
      - Albert_Ross
        
        WHO said there was evidence of human-to-human transmission on 22 January https://www.who.int/china/news/detail/22-01-2020-field-visit-wuhan-china-jan-2020
        
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        May 30, 2020 11:57am
      - burt
        
        Albert Ross
        
        By the 22nd of January I was already starting to stock up my pantry and was well aware that there was something big going on. International media were showing the drama in China.
        
        My son had just returned from travelling around Cambodia and Vietnam 10 days earlier and when a friend and I went to visit his home town for a beer festival at that time we were discussing the risk of spending time with him considering his route back from that trip.
        
        How is it possible that we knew there was a risk at that time when it was before the WHO declared the possibility of human to human transmission?
        
        They lied, big time. Trump isn’t exactly my favourite politician but imho he is absolutely correct in his disdain for the politically motivated and corrupt WHO.
        
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        May 30, 2020 4:14pm
  - burt
    
    What are the WHO’s plans for international health cooperation? No plans might be better than a plan of protecting China’s best interests.
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:51am
  - MT_Tinman
    
    International health cooperation is not Trump’s job.
    
    His job is to advance the cause of the USA.
    
    Your question should be directed at international health organisations.
    
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    May 30, 2020 1:36pm
    - Nickc2
      
      The WHO is a UN subsidiary. How long before the US pull out of the UN? If I was Trump, the US would be out of the UN long ago. What do we have to thank the UN for? A waste of money for the glorification of people who would otherwise go un-noticed e.g. Helen Clark.
      
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      May 30, 2020 1:49pm
    - Mike
      
      You don’t think it is in the interests of the USA to have international cooperation in health matters? If that were true, maybe it should withdraw from the ICAO, FAO, World Bank, IMF, ILO, NATO, UNEP, OPCW, IAEA and all the rest.
      
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      May 30, 2020 1:56pm
      - burt
        
        It’s absolutely in the US interests to have international cooperation, what is not in their interest if funding the WHO 10x more than China does while it covers the CCP leaders asses rather than report objectively on international health issues.
        
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        May 30, 2020 5:05pm
      - Mike
        
        So what alternative uses do you think the US will make of its WHO funding? anything that might improve international health cooperation?
        
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        May 30, 2020 6:12pm
      - Manu-Rau
        
        Mike – sorry, accidentally reported your last comment.
        
        The US can do whatever it wants with its own money.
        
        It’s. Their. Money.
        
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        May 31, 2020 12:31am
  - V
    
    Loads of medical staff and physicians used guidance and data provided by John Hopkins University or St Thomas’s Hospital. Nothing to stop a network of expert institutions working together.
    What we don’t need is these unaccountable, supposedly global institutions, led by the worlds worst example of a diversity hire (Tedros), wasting huge sums of money in the process. The intention at the creation may have been noble, but they inevitably become political and subject to all those machinations rather than the original intent of the organisation. In this case WHO cared more about not offending China than the health and wellbeing of the globe.
    
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    May 31, 2020 12:02am
- Simon
  
  WHO fully converged by the CCP.
  
  The neolib globalist claimed international institutions / law would mold China into correct behavior. Instead these international institutions are staffed by scum the CCP simply buys them.
  
  Everything the CCP touches turns to shit.
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:56am
  - oldfella
    
    Remember, ‘China is asshole.’
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:43am
    - JibberJabber
      
      https://shop.tr.news/product/official-china-is-asshoe-t-shirt/
      
      LoL ?
      
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      May 30, 2020 11:41am
  - Aunty
    
    Never trust a communist, and certainly never a Chinese nationalist one.
    
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    May 30, 2020 5:52pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Trump WHO?
  
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  May 30, 2020 5:20pm
artemisia

Hmmm, Fran taking a swipe at the Prime Minister this morning. Behind the paywall but the whole story is in the headline.

Enough is enough — the time for level 1 is now

Accompanied by a telling and amusing photo of the PM and the DPM.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12335946
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May 30, 2020 8:03am
- Tony Stuart
  
  It’s a brilliant photo from Mark Mitchell at NZME. The PM looks frazzled, and Peters looks like a cat who has just lapped up a saucer of cream.
  
  And O’Sullivan is dead right when she says:
  
  Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern is proving wilfully deaf to the message that it is time to politically bank the Covid-19 disaster and get New Zealand fully back to business.
  
  Even Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters is openly of the view that “blind ideology” is what is now standing in the way of New Zealand quickly moving down to alert level 1, establishing an airbridge with Australia and letting foreign students back into the country.
  
  In that, he is not alone.
  
  The Government is being quite cynical in letting Hollywood film-makers back into the country to resume production, yet denying other sectors the right to do so under similarly stringent quarantine conditions.
  
  Businesses large and small want activity to gear up so that economic confidence can be lifted.
  
  There is a growing murmur that “enough is enough”.
  
  I stood in a queue of around 20 people late yesterday afternoon waiting to get into my local supermarket. Earlier in the day, I had heard that there is ONE active case of coronavirus in New Zealand. The odds of contracting the virus are miniscule; I’d have better odds of winning Lotto!
  
  The PM risks spending all the political capital she has built up in one fell swoop, unless she admits on Tuesday that she and the D-G of Health were wrong, have reconsidered, and New Zealand will immediately move to Alert Level 1.
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:33am
  - Inandout
    
    Tony, I have waited in line with the ‘sheep’ as well and they stand like stunned mullets or watch their mobiles. I have often thought what would the doorman say if 20 gang members just grabbed some trolleys and walked straight in? The Police would be powerless to act, the store owner would hide in the office, shoppers would stand aghast and the checkout operators would be petrified through their face masks.
    
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    May 30, 2020 8:45am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Isn’t it strange that the PM wasn’t bothered when we had our first case of Covid-19 and let dozens of other cases pour into the country, but Now that we are back to precisely where we were in February, it’s all about being ultra-cautious?
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:12am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Without “deaths with/from” how was she going to justify a lockdown and 100Bn of debt?
      
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      May 30, 2020 9:18am
      - pdm
        
        Plus 200,000 extra on the dole.
        
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        May 30, 2020 9:32am
    - Paulus
      
      Even She has gone to Gizzy for the holidays – how did she get there -? Airforce Exec Queenair ?
      Via throwing enormous money unnecessarily in Napier – buying votes again.
      
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      May 30, 2020 9:28am
    - Nickc2
      
      She is milking the situation for all she can. She only has to open her mouth and the usual huddle of leftist so called journalists come running to create favourable headlines.
      
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      May 30, 2020 9:29am
      - artemisia
        
        Also being milked by being ‘kind’ permitting incremental extensions to eg gathering sizes. Hoping the populace won’t notice these announcements are only made when the Prime Minister is being smacked by influential constituents like South Auckland pastors. Oh and even the media.
        
        Cobbled together so there can be a stand up for the media now and then, rather than just a boring announcement of be kind and drive carefully or a daily notice posted at the palace gate.
        
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        May 30, 2020 10:50am
  - yossarian
    
    For the past two Saturdays I have stood in line to buy my weekly bread…I just can’t help laugh at the irony
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:30am
    - emmess
      
      That’s a good thing
      
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      May 30, 2020 9:59am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Winston trying to play “good cop” so he can get back in after the elections and receive a “heroes welcome”.
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:40am
  - Left Right and Centre
    
    The PM looks frazzled – Tony – that’s because her social media photoshop age is 25 while actually looking 50 offline.
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:46am
    - JackRabbit
      
      She got the need for Photoshop from Aunty Helen.
      
      Better hair, smoother skin, no wrinkles, straightened and resized uniform teeth, and a reconstructed smile.
      
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      May 30, 2020 10:50am
      - Rob2
        
        Not if you see the pic that is going up for auction in Seymour’s electorate.
        Kirton’s Mrs (nee Belich) is following Nash and David Park, who are current ministers. ( Who is David Park?? Never heard of him) and is standing for election against David and Goldsmith.
        
        Of course its a patsy way into a list seat. Not enough gumption nor guts to stand and fight in an electorate seat, just must be on the list.
        
        Anyway, the picture is here.
        Its a rendition of Cindy and Clark. Certainly more like Clark than Cindy.
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=12335874
        
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        May 30, 2020 11:48am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What’s the deal with the overseas film teams arriving on the quiet? We can’t go anywhere but they have free reign. Who paid for that perk?
    
    Why can’t citizens have the rights given to others?
    We have a bunch of rich Yanks with bunkered residence here–is their money getting extra?
    Are they paying top dollars and to whom?
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:47am
    - sooty
      
      Did she entertain the stars and cook them scones aswell?
      
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      May 30, 2020 11:25am
    - rouppe
      
      Meanwhile whakapapa and turoa will open with limited capacity because they can’t get ski instructors or workers with the right skills into the country
      
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      May 30, 2020 11:46am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Actually I call bullshit on that. The operators (lift operators and the like) are 95%+ locals or can be filled by locals. Ski Instructors are often foreign but that’s primarily because that “sells”, there’s enough locals who could instruct enough for most duties, certainly for beginners which is where the bulk of the trade is.
        
        The major reason they are limiting capacity is the Level 2 (and I think level 1) rules limiting contact and enforcing space between people. So only so many at a time on the new Whakapapa gondola, and quite possibly less than full loads for each chairlift.
        
        the same is true in the South, Treble is limiting access to facilities and quite likely to chairs as well – and as around 50% of their normal clientele is Foreign, the actual uphill capacity should more or less cope same as usual. Am very tempted to give it a week or so myself, bet there are few cheap flights though. Mind you, accomodation should be cheap, the house rental business (best way to stay in Wanaka, just IMHO), will be down in the dumps with few overseas visitors.
        
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        May 30, 2020 10:19pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Don’t forget we have Iain Lees-Galloway and Phil Twyford doing their best to sabotage the chances of NZ hosting the Americas Cup series of races.
      To the pair of them; so F_n what if their (UK and US) entry applications haven’t arrived on your desks (AFIK, they have been lodged)? Get off your arses and chase them up and sign off on them. How difficult can that be FFS?
      
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      May 30, 2020 11:50am
  - Noon416
    
    I would bet good money she’s waiting to cash in politically on the ‘magic’ zero active cases so she can loudly proclaim “I …. err, Labour, umm, I mean NZ! We did it! We’re the first country in the world to eliminate the virus!”.
    
    And it will be lapped up without question as usual, despite plenty of other countries having already done so.
    
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    May 30, 2020 10:25am
  - tf78
    
    I want her to spend all her capital so she is broke and leaves.
    
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    May 30, 2020 10:36am
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      She has spent ours already, our children’s and, most likely, our grandchidren’s.
      
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      May 30, 2020 5:27pm
krazykiwi

What other modern democracy allow police to forcefully enter private homes without a warrant?

What other modern democracy allows police to direct you to take some unspecified, demanded action for which your failure to comply carries a custodial sentence?
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May 30, 2020 8:04am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  All the women I have spoken to (and many men) say that the health and safety of people comes first, so they support the police and government.
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:15am
  - Jacinda is not a Princess, she's a very naughty girl
    
    ‘…health and safety of people comes first…’
    
    I assume they have always refused to drive cars then.
    
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    May 30, 2020 8:55am
  - jv
    
    “She guilts people into questioning their own beliefs” Martin van Beynen Stuff
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:08am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Martin obviously stop short of calling her a narcissist.
      
      https://www.psychologytoday.com/nz/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201508/why-narcissists-need-you-doubt-yourself
      
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      May 30, 2020 9:42am
    - amospicton
      
      She’s done the 3 Ps:
      1. Procrastinate – no preparations when we had a window before the first case here.
      2. Panic – lock-down level 4. Only essential businesses allowed to open. Only unsafe businesses should have been closed.
      3. Paralysis – stubborn adherence to a game plan despite overwhelming evidence it’s doing more harm than good.
      All with a heavy dose of politicking.
      Should have been:
      1. Prepare.
      2. Proportionate response.
      3. Pragmatic – don’t get locked into anything. React to incoming data and adjust accordingly.
      
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      May 30, 2020 12:07pm
      - Faroffsound
        
        “React to incoming data and adjust accordingly.”
        
        That would have been way too logical and sensible – no drama there.
        
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        May 30, 2020 6:07pm
  - Frank the tank
    
    Same here – any females and any males over the age of 50 that don’t own a business
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:13am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Indeed many women do. That’s why many men suggest women are very poor decision makers.
    
    [NB: this comment may be illegal under coming hate speech laws]
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:16am
  - Nickc2
    
    You must work at Stuff or NZME?
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:33am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Over this Covid19 experience I have come to realise just how many people there are who don’t want to be responsible for their own lives.
    It is much easier to let someone else (in this case, St Jacinda and her government) make your decisions for you. And if they keep paying your expenses -what’s not to like?
    We now live in a society where there are no consequences for personal actions or non actions – just look at the young guy who tried to cross Cook Strait in a dinghy totally unprepared. He got into trouble and had to be rescued at no cost to himself.
    He didn’t care and said he would do it again if he felt like it.
    Is he facing any consequences for his selfish, dangerous actions? No.
    Someone else will sort it, and pay. The government is enabling this behaviour.
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:52am
    - JackRabbit
      
      While on the face of it you may be right, I do believe the percentage of people who want to be responsible for their own lives is greater than your post may imply.
      
      The cook strait guy is a bad example in relation to Covid-19, because he is only one person, and a different scenario, but I agree with your observation that people are not as responsible as they should be. The cook strait incident could be turned around in an instance if he was given an invoice for even 10% of the rescue cost. He wouldn’t be boasting about doing it again. And there is impetus that search and rescue can charge for rescues.
      
      https://www.police.govt.nz/faq/if-i-get-lost-and-need-search-and-rescue-will-i-have-pay
      
      Some years back I got stuck in the mountains through my own stupidity, and had to weigh up news headlines that would paint me like a dickhead, as is the case with the Cook Strait guy, and whether or not I would get charged with costs under the police directive as above.
      
      Still having marginal cell phone coverage, I elected to pay the cost of getting private professional help, which as it turns out was not that much.
      
      In the case of Covid-19, people who would be responsible for their own lives, are unable to be because of the torrent of dis-information from the Government, that makes them doubt themselves, and backed up with threats from the law.
      
      KiwiBlog and other blog/news sites help by questioning the narrative and people who research providing links to genuine news articles.
      
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      May 30, 2020 12:03pm
      - rockape
        
        The Coastguard do charge for rescues.
        
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        May 30, 2020 1:48pm
      - Nickc2
        
        @rockape 1:48PM
        Not if you are a paid up member.
        
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        May 30, 2020 7:59pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Karens gotta Karen.
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:14pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Every time the Greens make a fuss about some perceived issue of human rights, they should be reminded that they enabled this appalling situation.
  
  It wasn’t an issue of confidence and supply, which is the basis on which they support the Coalition. They could have abstained, and the legislation would have failed. Instead, they took the path of least resistance, and gave the Police and Government sweeping powers.
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:26am
  - Swifty
    
    Their credibility is fatally damaged now.
    
    This can now be thrown back at them at any time of their opponent’s choosing.
    
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    May 30, 2020 8:30am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Not “can” Swifty. Those of us who oppose this government MUST remind the populus of this hypocrisy by the Greens.
      
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      May 30, 2020 8:41am
  - Don Beckett
    
    I wonder if there would be any point for a citizens’ initiated petition to have that draconian law repealed? It is reminiscent of North Korea – or East Germany back in the 1970’s.
    
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    May 30, 2020 8:32am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      We have one of those coming up Don. It’s called the General Election. National strongly opposed this law through all the parliamentary stages, with Act joining in after voting with the Government at the First and Second Readings. A National/Act government will repeal this appalling affront to our civil rights.
      
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      May 30, 2020 8:37am
      - Andrei
        
        Unfortunately Tony the National Party committed hari kari last week after being panicked into it by the harpies from the Parliamentary Press gallery.
        
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        May 30, 2020 8:45am
      - kowtow
        
        Andrei
        
        Hari kari is an honourable way out ( to a Bushido adherent) what the coupsters did was anything but .
        
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        May 30, 2020 9:01am
      - fightingtemeraire
        
        To Andrei
        
        It is actually Seppuku. The characters are similar and they can be pronounced either way.
        
        If you read a book called Tales of Old Japan there is a chapter there on the last official case of Seppuku ordered by the Emperor.
        
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        May 30, 2020 10:37am
    - Nickc2
      
      Get a bunch of school kids to write letters to her. Problem solved!
      
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      May 30, 2020 9:38am
  - alloytoo
    
    What is this illusion of some sort of moral compass inherent in the Greens?
    
    There’s been little demonstration of it in the last ten years.
    
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    May 30, 2020 8:35am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    What are the sweeping powers and, when and how often have they been used Tony?
    
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    May 30, 2020 8:47am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      The “sweeping powers” Brian gave the Police the ability to enter private dwellings without a warrant if they suspected or had received complaints of a gathering of more than 10 people. Whether or not the powers have been used is an utter red herring; the fact is they should never have been written into law in the first place.
      
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      May 30, 2020 8:57am
      - chukar
        
        TS,
        The same way Council have sweeping powers to enter private land without prior notice . This should not have been allowed either
        Individual rights in NZ are almost non existent.
        
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        May 30, 2020 10:39am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Oh, the Greens are fine with it. And so are their supporters. What’s important is the advance the ball, and their ball is a watermelon.
    
    MMP requires backroom deals, and without a doubt any qualms the Greens had over this were satisfied by a promise from Ardern that they would receive support for some future Green boondoggle.
    
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    May 30, 2020 10:08am
- igm
  
  Krazy: What other democracy allows ex jailbirds and gangs to decide and enforce who uses particular roads?
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:26am
- MCos
  
  I don’t know, but Noise Control can act with the police to seize the noise-offending equipment, which one imagines is often located in a private home.
  Furthermore I doubt whether there’s too many places where police can’t enter a private home if it’s obvious from the outside mayhem is taking place.
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:44am
  - Mike
    
    There are quite a few general situations in which police can enter private property without a warrant, and also a number of laws granting that power for specific purposes (traffic, immigration, animal welfare, etc). No doubt krazykiwi wants all those laws repealed, too, and has a history of advocating against them. Unless he is choosy about his libertarianism, of course.
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:31am
    - krazykiwi
      
      “ There are quite a few general situations in which police can enter private property without a warrant”
      
      Horseshit. The very existence of this new and draconian legislation proves otherwise.
      
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      May 30, 2020 10:10am
      - Mike
        
        Among other things, the police can pursue you onto your property and into your home to carry out a breath-alcohol test if:
        – they suspect you’ve been driving recklessly or dangerously, or driving under the influence of drink or drugs
        – you failed to stop and stay stopped for the police, or failed to give them your details.
        If necessary, the police can use force to get onto your property or to enter your home. They can also enter your property to seize a vehicle without a warrant.
        There are quite a few other powers as well, that I’m sure you have not protested against. It seems you must have a very specific, principled objection to the enforcement of public health precautions, but no objection to other and other such ‘draconian’ powers.
        
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        May 30, 2020 11:39am
      - krazykiwi
        
        You cite a very specific provision of the crimes act that resulted from documented cases of people fleeing legal police actions. I’ll say it again: There is no, none, zero, zilch justification for the sweeping powers and limitation of civil liberties rushed onto our statutes. If this law had been hammered through under urgency by a National government you would be apoplectic in your opposition, and I would be joining you. That you feign support for this legislative abomination is nothing other than pathetic partisanship.
        
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        May 30, 2020 12:41pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      Yes, repeal them all, then start again, and argue for “imminent danger” type powers of entry from a basis of individual rights. See how many of them pass the test.
      
      Give an inch, take a fucking mile.
      
      What about the denial of the right to remain silent? What’s your excuse for that massive abuse of power? How the hell does that satisfy any imminent danger situation?
      
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      May 30, 2020 10:14am
      - Mike
        
        The right to remain silent is already qualified in many circumstances.
        
        1 6
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        May 30, 2020 1:49pm
      - thirteenstars
        
        “The right to remain silent is already qualified in many circumstances”
        
        Spoken like a true authoritarian. Give an inch, take a fucking mile.
        
        7 0
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        May 30, 2020 4:01pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  What democracy gives less rights to citizens than paying outsiders?
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:49am
- rouppe
  
  You need to be clear that was possible before covid-19.
  
  Police could enter your home without a warrant of they believed a crime was being committed. Search and surveillance act allowed it.
  
  Out and about “breaching the peace” was a common threat of arrest. They’d use that any time they felt like it. If you failed to comply it was pretty easy to escalate to resisting arrest.
  
  The emergency powers certainly expanded that, but they weren’t unique.
  
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  May 30, 2020 11:50am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Also they can enter a house in hot pursuit of a suspect without a warrant
    
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    May 30, 2020 12:38pm
    - burt
      
      Do you think removing the requirement to be chasing a person in hot pursuit from the list of justifications is a trivial change?
      
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      May 30, 2020 2:41pm
fightingtemeraire

Louisa Wall has been stabbed in the back by the Labour Party and I see that the Labour Candidate for Epsom is the wife of Andrew Kirton the Labour Party Gen Sec at the time of the Labour Youth Camp debacle.
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May 30, 2020 8:09am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I see Labour’s president was saying last night that Wall will become a List MP. What will happen however is that Ms Wall will be given a place at the foot of Labour’s list, behind all the unionists, teachers, academics and party hacks who populate Labour’s list, like the dreadful Marja Lubeck.
  
  Louisa Wall has been rat-f#@ked by Labour’s leadership, and will not be in Parliament after the election.
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:46am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Great for you to be sticking up for Labour MPs when you don’t really give a damn Tony, but the description you gave is not flattering to anyone including yourself. But that’s politics right?
    
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    May 30, 2020 8:56am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Ask yourself this Brian; why was Louisa Wall one of only two returning Labour MP’s (the other being Rino Tirikatene) not given a ministerial, associate minister or parliamentary undersecretary role after the 2017 election? Others who have been in Parliament for far less time, like Michael Wood have been propelled up the ranks with indecent haste, and even newcome Kieran McAnulty immediately found himself elevated to the position of Junior Whip.
      
      That suggests that Louisa Wall is either incompetent (which certainly wasn’t evident when she shepherded Marriage Equality through the Parliament), or she does not enjoy the confidence of the party leadership.
      
      In any event, to allow a challenge to her candidacy, even though one of the challengers didn’t manage to get her nomination papers filed by due date, suggests that the party leadership and hierarchy want her gone. They may well get their wish.
      
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      May 30, 2020 9:06am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        I’m not a political junkie Tony, so I can’t answer your question. I can’t even say it bothers me. I do think Louisa is a scrapper however (her sports career and lobbying power show that) and wish her all the best.
        
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        May 30, 2020 9:13am
      - MT_Tinman
        
        I’m afraid that the swapping of one lefty ageist, sexist, racist sheila for another in the Labour party is of no concern – unless it means that neither are in parliament after the next election.
        
        If that is the case let’s commence the scrapping.
        
        21 1
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        May 30, 2020 9:26am
      - oldfella
        
        Louisa Wall should go on the offensive and accuse the Labour Party of racism and sexism. And in particular of being anti LGBTQXYZ whatever. Hey, accuse Clarke Gayford of wearing a MAGA cap when he’s out fishing. That would be a kill shot right there. Throw enough mud at the Princess and her friends and some might stick. /sarc (obviously)
        
        23 2
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        May 30, 2020 9:57am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Why are Louisa Wall and Rino Tirikatene so unwanted by the Labour hierarchy? Could it be because they are Maori?
        
        20 0
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        May 30, 2020 11:00am
      - sooty
        
        Heee hhhheeee, HHHAAAA HHHHHHAAAAAA!
        
        8 0
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        May 30, 2020 11:31am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    It is much more likely that she has done a deal with the Party. Pull out of the Manurewa contest and get a decent list place. It will be the price of withdrawing her legal challenge.
    She gets an additional term in parliament, 2020 to 2023.
    
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    May 30, 2020 12:48pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yep,
      looks like that’s exactly what has happened.
      https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/louisa-wall-has-list-seat-deal-after-bowing-labour-s-manurewa-candidate-race?auto=0
      
      2 0
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      May 30, 2020 7:21pm
- MCos
  
  “Louisa Wall has been stabbed in the back by the Labour Party”
  Are you familiar with internal Labour Party politics, because if you are let’s all know what the real gos is, please?
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:52am
  - Mike
    
    It is Tony, MCos. Hence, everything done in the Labour Party is bad; everything done in the national Party is good. Interpreting his comments is really that simple: pure tribalism.
    
    1 24
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    May 30, 2020 9:26am
    - RightNow
      
      Holy cow, a textbook case of projection.
      
      11 0
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      May 30, 2020 12:33pm
      - Mike
        
        Bang on, except that I’m not a labour party member, and have no lifelong investment in defending anything it does…
        
        3 3
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        May 30, 2020 1:44pm
Harriet

Jobs and bonuses, and increased productivity is trickle down theory.
Jobs and taxes and subsidies, and lower productivity is socialism, and that’s now pour down theory.
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May 30, 2020 8:12am
mandk

National’s subsidy to encourage businesses to take on new employees is a good start. But more is required.

What we have now from Labour is blood transfusions aimed at keeping businesses alive.

Sadly, though a lot of businesses have bled out and died. More will inevitably die.

National should announce a scheme to encourage business start ups to replace those that have been lost

My proposal is lifting the GST threshold to 100,000 dollars, to enable start ups to focus on getting established.

The scheme would also be popular with existing businesses. National needs to get them on its side.
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May 30, 2020 8:13am
- Simon
  
  “National’s subsidy to encourage businesses to take on new employees is a good start.”
  
  Its a bullshit attempt to prop up prices in a falling market. It is so out of touch its Labour like.
  
  Falling prices allow surpluses to clear. Anything else will just make things worse.
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:48am
  - mandk
    
    The subsidy has the effect of reducing the price.
    The quantity demanded will increase accordingly.
    
    10 3
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    May 30, 2020 9:00am
- JackRabbit
  
  Employer subsidies do not work. Is Muller secretly a Labour fan?
  
  Cut income tax to 15% flat.
  Cut GST to 10%.
  Stop spending
  Stop flying all over the world
  Cut MP’s pay
  Tighten the govt belt a couple of notches
  Dissolve all talking groups
  Mothball Pike River forever
  Stop following the Pied Piper Climate Change Scam
  Stop pandering to special interest groups.
  Stop racist Maori favoritism
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:28am
  - mandk
    
    Politics is the art of the possible.
    
    Do you really believe there is public appetite for your manifesto.
    
    11 2
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    May 30, 2020 10:01am
    - hookerphil
      
      There is here
      
      9 0
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      May 30, 2020 10:57am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Principles are principles.
      
      A manifesto is usually a list of chocolate coated actions on what someone believes are a combination of what they want to do compromised by what the public will accept.
      
      Actions that are not necessarily underpinned by a hierarchy of principles
      
      And that is where politics gets it’s corruption.
      
      What got us into the crap, is corrupted politics. Only policies based on good principles will get us out.
      
      But you are right, politics is about what is easy and “possible”
      
      Principles are about doing what is right, no matter how difficult. By tackling the difficult, the impossible becomes more possible.
      
      {One free man will say with truth what he thinks and feels amongst thousands of men who by their acts and words attest exactly the opposite. It would seem that he who sincerely expressed his thought must remain alone, whereas it generally happens that everyone else, or the majority at least have been thinking and feeling the same things but without expressing them.
      
      And that which yesterday was the novel opinion of one man, to-day becomes the general opinion of the majority.
      
      And as soon as this opinion is established, immediately by imperceptible degrees, but beyond power of frustration, the conduct of mankind begins to alter.
      
      Whereas, at present, every man, even if free, asks himself “What can I do alone against all this ocean of evil and deceit which overwhelms us? Why should I express my opinion? Why indeed possess one? It is better not to reflect on these misty and involved questions. Perhaps these contradictions are an inevitable condition of our existence. And why should I struggle alone with all the evil in the world? Is it not better to go with the stream which carries me along? If anything can be done, it must be done not alone but in company with others.” }
      
      -Leo Tolstoy
      
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      May 30, 2020 11:15am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Yes, yes, yes
    
    This is exactly what we need to do. In need be tie the reduction in taxation to job retainment to satisfy the political luvvies.
    
    To date both sides have ignored one side of the P&L (expenses) and one side of the balance sheet (assets). In order to get out of this mess we need a balanced economic approach so we don’t turn out to be the Greece of the South Pacific
    
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    May 31, 2020 7:06am
slightlyrighty

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/300013779/medical-schools-boosting-mori-and-pasifika-numbers

Notwithstanding the issues I have with Affirmative action (and at 25% of students, Maori and Pasifika make up a huge proportion of Med students at Auckland Uni), there is another issue.

One of the reasons given for having more Maori and Pasifika doctors is that (some, not all) people from those communities can often feel more comfortable dealing with someone from their own background.

So am I to assume that it would be acceptable for a Maori or Pasifika Patient to request to be seen by a person from their own background?

Imagine if a European patient went to hospital and demanded to be seen by a white doctor?
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May 30, 2020 8:16am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Or if a white person refused to be treated by a Maori doctor. You would be the leading media story of the day.
  
  I’m interested in competence nothing else. If it is a complicated interaction for a significant health issue I would not choose a doctor with poor English language skills.
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:25am
  - Left Right and Centre
    
    On the upside a cuzzy might help a down with it whitey bend the rules a bit eh man? Heh
    
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    May 30, 2020 10:00am
Maggy Wassilieff

When we had our first case of Covid-19, it appeared that our Government didn’t take appropriate action and more folks carrying the virus entered the country.

Now that we have had the severest lockdown anywhere, and are left with just one known case, it appears that our Government still is not taking proportionate action.

Government intervention at an early stage appears to have been designed mainly to avoid health systems being overwhelmed, but the subsequent paths of the epidemics show that in most cases it was unnecessarily strong for that purpose.

A mathematician considers the effect of this epidemic on populations where all are not susceptible.
https://judithcurry.com/2020/05/29/when-does-government-intervention-make-sense-for-covid-19/
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May 30, 2020 8:36am
- MT_Tinman
  
  The government is taking exactly proportionate action.
  
  It,s jut that it’s goal has nothing at all to do with public health and welfare.
  
  Everything it is doing and has done in the last months is (has been) about forming a socialist dictatorship in the South Pacific.
  
  My guess is a dictatorship formulated initially by the Pom Labour party.
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:45am
- alloytoo
  
  Procrastination
  Panic
  SNAFU.
  
  That’s our PM in a nutshell.
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:46am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Sort of with you Maggie but what is severe about level 2, hand sanitizing and social distancing?
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:53am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It’s not severe for me, Brian, because I am an old retired person, but it is still a financial impediment for folks running hospitality (cafes, restaurants, bars, nightclubs), transport, public venues/events, retail, etc.
    
    And there’s really no need for it now, as long as our borders are monitored.
    
    I was all in favour of an early Lockdown as I was well aware that in February/early March, our health & care personnel were not fully equipped with protective clothing and our ability to test for covid-19 was limited.
    
    (A sample from the first possible in Gisborne had to be flown to Auckland, then put on another flight to Christchurch, then delivered to a lab there, and needed 48 hours of processing before a result could be obtained).
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:33am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      I’m not young either Maggie. Going to the bank is a bit troublesome at one branch because they are poorly organised. Supermarkets seem fine, one better than another.
      I fully recognize the dire financial situation for some and I can’t say it’s not completely untrue for us. We adjusted and continue to do so.
      I can not buy into the issue of PPE shortage, while true and the same for many other countries (including the States of all places) there was a sudden, shock need.
      I’m very conscious there was a need to avoid panic. The introduction of the idea of levels followed by a sudden change went relatively smoothly. That required sober thought. The wage subsidy, accomodating landlords, a better than useful month in March all helped.
      
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      May 30, 2020 10:20am
      - rouppe
        
        “not completely untrue for us ”
        
        Sounds like someone who lost overtime opportunities but by and large remained employed.
        
        I was cut loose early April. I start a new gig next week but until a week ago was staring down several months of no income. Had to suspend insurance premium payments because at my age they are astronomical, and there is a degree of ageism in hiring decisions.
        
        I’ll be stuffing the shoe box full of any spare cash.
        
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        May 30, 2020 12:09pm
  - Crisplion
    
    I haven’t observed many people bothering with either of those things.
    The main problem with level 2 is psychological: It maintains a state of unwarranted and politically-imposed fear that Ardern and her band of no-hopers think will play out well for them. It is very much to the discredit of New Zealanders that, thus far, they seem to be right.
    Notwithstanding my own political leanings, I have a dear friend who is president of a Labour party branch. Even he thinks that the sudden lurch to get behind Ardern and her authoritarian narcissism is a sinister turn for our country.
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:40am
  - Left Right and Centre
    
    Should only be washing our hands of level 2 now Brian.
    
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    May 30, 2020 10:03am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      I’m happy to be cruising along now LRC. Mechanical and engineering services are streamlining, nothing we can’t get done now.
      
      2 15
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      May 30, 2020 10:23am
      - Crisplion
        
        Nice to be you. Not everyone is so fortunate. Rather a self centered comment actually.
        
        12 1
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        May 30, 2020 11:51am
- MrTips
  
  Yes, well many have known for some time what has now become public. Ashley is not up to scratch, the time to contact tracing has gone backwards: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12335941
  
  The tracing app is shit: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12333385
  
  Meanwhile Ashley’s spending time at dinner with the GG and performing in music videos.
  
  And we are still short of ventilators and ICU capability.
  
  The ides of June Ashley. Do your fucking job.
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:23am
I remember when

The MAGA hat is a symbol of vitriolic hatred. That certainly applies for the Media.
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May 30, 2020 8:36am
- Mike
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  If you recognise a MAGA hate for what it is, you will have no trouble recognising “when the looting starts, the shooting starts” for what it is as well.
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:55am
  - emmess
    
    Oh, you mean like in Minneapolis?
    
    Where according to the left up until a few days ago, standing outside with a sign was beyond the pale.
    Now looting rioting is perfectly okay. Notwithstanding, the fact that the death of George Floyd was a clear cut case of murder by the cop, even though if it wasn’t, it would be no different.
    
    19 3
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    May 30, 2020 10:09am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      No excuse for looting and the fires but in a country where Joe Average can get arrested and thrown in goal in minutes the part-time bouncer/cop seems to have a strong case against him – just by the words “I can’t breath”.
      
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      May 30, 2020 10:27am
      - Mike
        
        Has now been charged with murder, I believe.
        
        5 0
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        May 30, 2020 11:33am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Yes, third degree murder, which I gather is similar to a charge of manslaughter in New Zealand.
        
        9 0
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        May 30, 2020 12:08pm
      - MCos
        
        It’s painfully obvious than without all the protesting that policeman wouldn’t have been arrested.
        Maybe would have kept his job, even.
        Now watch for the smearing of the bloke who was killed and whoever made the video
        Trump has already started on the mayor.
        
        2 5
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        May 30, 2020 2:39pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Note though, that Minnesota has a Democrat Governor (and it went for HRC in 2016), Minneapolis has Democratic Mayor, a Democratic Chief of Police, and the cop at the centre of this furore has been in trouble before and Democratic Presidential contender Amy Klobuchar (AG at the time I think) refused to prosecute him.
        
        And somehow this is the GOP and Trump’s fault !!?!
        
        This just shows the racist nature of the Democrat party, right out in the open. And the Democrats and the media (but I repeat myself) are very busy trying to spin their way out of this.
        
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        May 30, 2020 10:27pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    CNN’s Van Jones on threats to blacks: “It is not the racist white person who is in the KKK that we have to worry about. It is the white liberal Hillary Clinton supporter walking her dog in Central Park … she weaponized race like she had been trained by the Aryan nation”
    Video in the link
    https://mobile.twitter.com/realsaavedra/status/1266387411644215296
    
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    May 30, 2020 10:24am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yep,
      her apology is an exemplar of PR spin…on how to disguise exposed racism.
      
      Amy Cooper released an apology through a public relations service Tuesday night, saying she “reacted emotionally and made false assumptions about his intentions.”
      
      “I am well aware of the pain that misassumptions and insensitive statements about race cause and would never have imagined that I would be involved in the type of incident that occurred with Chris.”
      
      https://abc7ny.com/central-park-dog-karen-woman-amy-cooper/6217690/
      
      5 2
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      May 30, 2020 10:43am
      - Brian Marshall
        
        Seriously that was a case of two Karen’s fighting. What sort of bird watcher carry’s dog treats in his pocket??
        
        0 1
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        May 30, 2020 5:58pm
    - JibberJabber
      
      Joe Biden “I was baited ”
      Joe Biden attacks
      @cthagod
      for “baiting” him into telling Charlamagne “#YouAintBlack” if he doesn’t automatically support Biden.
      
      https://twitter.com/TrumpWarRoom/status/1266497208104484870
      
      2 2
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      May 30, 2020 11:49am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Oh Joe wasn’t baited, he’s a master baiter himself from way back.
        
        0 0
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        May 30, 2020 10:29pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “when the looting starts, the shooting starts”
    We both know Trump was referring to the National Guard/Military Mike.
    Nice sledge
    
    9 2
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    May 30, 2020 11:27am
    - Mike
      
      It’s a phrase with a long, nasty history. Quite possibly, the know-nothing president was ignorant of that.
      Even so, ‘shooting’ is not the automatic response to robbery, is it? But I suppose you could claim that ‘shooting’ was only a reference to rubber bullets and tear gas…
      
      1 14
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      May 30, 2020 11:32am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Shooting IS the automatic response to robbery.
        It stops them doing it. This is America not politically correct NZ
        
        13 3
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        May 30, 2020 12:05pm
      - rouppe
        
        “Robbery” is a disingenuous mis-characterisation of “looting”.
        
        Typically a robbery will involve very few people. One victim and 1-several offenders.
        
        This looting involves thousands of people breaking into stores and just taking everything they can get their hands on. What does that have to do with the death of George Floyd?
        
        As far as looters are concerned, light ’em up, I say.
        
        11 1
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        May 30, 2020 2:40pm
  - Fletch
    
    It’s only the media who would interpret it that way. I am 100% unsurprised. They NEVER EVER give Trump the benefit of the doubt. They take everything he says or does and ascribe the worst intent to it.
    
    “Looting leads to shooting, and that’s why a man was shot and killed in Minneapolis on Wednesday night – or look at what just happened in Louisville with 7 people shot. I don’t want this to happen, and that’s what the expression put out last night means. It was spoken as a fact, not as a statement. It’s very simple, nobody should have any problem with this other than the haters, and those looking to cause trouble on social media. Honor the memory of George Floyd!”
    
    @realDonaldTrump
    
    7 1
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    May 30, 2020 2:09pm
    - Mike
      
      Well, I suppose there is nothing to stop you from believing his re-characterisation of the phrase. Add it to the rest of your magical thinking.
      
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      May 30, 2020 3:59pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        FFS.
        
        3 0
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        May 30, 2020 9:18pm
- Harriet
  
  For the last two decades the media at best has thrown crumbs to conservatives, males, the working class, tax payers, real women, Christians and largely any alternative to their collective global narrative.
  
  And the -MAGA tweeted phrase- is a narrative that opposes all of that out of the interests of freedom, namely democracy through an informed and interested populace.
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:55am
  - MCos
    
    Lets not play the victim, Harriet.
    
    2 22
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    May 30, 2020 9:30am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Victim-blaming is such a handy technique for shutting folks up, isn’t it?
      
      15 2
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      May 30, 2020 10:08am
      - artemisia
        
        Not as good as ‘racist’.
        
        Some epithets get shut down until there is the ballot box.
        
        8 2
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        May 30, 2020 10:54am
- tf78
  
  I saw Donna Miles-Mojab who wrote the article about the MAGA cap, in a very cosy photograph with none other than Golriz and Behrouz Boochani.
  
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  May 30, 2020 10:58am
Paulus Gnome

I see the Stuff stories on line hold the begging bowl out to ask for as ‘little as $1 to help our local news teams bring you reliable, independent news you can trust’

Why would one donate a dollar when the whole ‘reliable independent’ socialist mouthpiece could have been had for a $1.00 and, I have already contributed via my taxes to the $50m media windfall.

I am better off keeping the $ in my pocket in the ‘new normal’
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May 30, 2020 8:45am
- Mike
  
  In case you hadn’t been paying attention, the $1 sale price was a nominal sum to take ownership of an enterprise with a negative value on the books due to its excessive debt.
  Even if Stuff were to receive all of the government’s $50 media support package, it would still have huge debts.
  There is no logical reason why Stuff should not seek contributions to support the provision of a service that readers enjoy for free. Many media services, such as Kiwiblog, do the same.
  It seems likely that some combination of subscriptions, donations and advertising is the way ahead.
  
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  May 30, 2020 8:59am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    I agree and thought the business was changing hands without the debt?
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:15am
    - Mike
      
      I wouldn’t have thought so, because surely there are some assets, at least.
      
      2 7
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      May 30, 2020 9:21am
  - JackRabbit
    
    And it could have raised the value way above $1 if it actually did proper news reporting. The $1 value is a reflection on the public no longer considering the biased reporting to be of any value.
    
    20 2
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    May 30, 2020 9:33am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Stuff should stick it head in the sand and keep it there.
    
    11 2
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    May 30, 2020 9:57am
    - JackRabbit
      
      And change it’s name to Stuffed Up.
      
      8 1
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      May 30, 2020 11:22am
  - burt
    
    If it had a negative book value then how do we justify the tax payers money given to it to keep it going?
    
    6 1
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    May 30, 2020 2:47pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It must be pissing some of our journalists off that folks are donating $$$ to this blogsite.
  
  I wonder how long before the attack dogs are let out to try and tear Kiwiblog to pieces.
  
  30 4
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  May 30, 2020 9:45am
- Nickc2
  
  Stuff says they produce ‘reliable and independent news’. What a load of crap!
  
  38 0
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  May 30, 2020 9:58am
- freethinker
  
  I am considering donating $1 Billion to stuff and will send it as soon as I find that Zimbabwe Note.
  
  26 0
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  May 30, 2020 10:03am
- Left Right and Centre
  
  I’ll give them $150 if they get rid of Donna Miles-Hiabcab or whatever she’s called Paulus.
  
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  May 30, 2020 10:06am
  - Mike
    
    No doubt the Stuff managers are monitoring Kiwblog and will have noted your offer, which may have some influence.
    BTW, I have still had no response from Bauer Media to my offer to buy the NZ Listener…
    
    10 1
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    May 30, 2020 10:20am
Swifty

I invite anyone reading this; regular KBers, political staffers, media types, drive-by lefties indeed any NZer interested in issues of freedom of NZers to pursue their interests free from government interference, private property rights, industry capture of government, crony-capitalism, industry capture of politicians etc – and ask themselves how they would regard it if it was their products or services the target of a political party’s attempts at control.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300023313/insults-fly-in-shane-jones-forestry-cronyism-spat

Yes, on Monday you learn that a CoL politician has decided that, for reasons which do not benefit you, you will now be required to sign up to a regulatory regime which dictates to whom you can sell your products, in what quantities and inevitably at what price – primarily so that others can benefit from your endeavours. Your company is at stake, your family’s wealth, your company, your staff’s futures, your retirement plans etc etc – all so that the politician concerned can curry favour with an industry sector and boost his/her electoral chances.

What would YOUR thoughts be?
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May 30, 2020 8:48am
- Mike
  
  Firstly, encouraging more use of our wood in New Zealand and, by extension, more wood processing here, is a good thing.
  Secondly, however, mechanisms to do this are very tricky and could easily be counterproductive, by hampering exports sales and failing to actually increase processing here.
  I should think that what would work best for the forestry industry would be neutral policies that allow timber producers to grow ‘the right tree in the right place’ – profiting from environmental benefits of forestry (carbon credits) while meeting the environmental costs.
  Likewise, timber processors here should concentrate on what they can profitably produce.
  The government needs to set ground rules for all businesses, not provide special mechanisms to favour one industry over another, be it dairy, forestry, horse breeding, or film-making.
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:08am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    encouraging more use of our wood in New Zealand and, by extension, more wood processing here, is a good thing
    
    No, it isn’t. Not unless you think that people in the industry are either ignorantly or deliberately ignoring opportunities, that only Shane is clever enough to see, to make better money. Processing here is better than sending it off for processing overseas only if processing here adds more to the price you can get than it does to your costs.
    
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    May 30, 2020 10:22am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Let the market decide where and when timber is exported processed or unprocessed. Trying to be God and make decisions for other businesses and other people is what socialism is. Let the market decide.
      
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      May 30, 2020 11:27am
    - Mike
      
      You ignored my counter to that argument.
      
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      May 30, 2020 11:27am
      - Albert_Ross
        
        I didn’t disagree with the points in the rest of your post; but I was concerned that taken as a whole, your post purported to balance the pros and the cons of a policy where in fact there aren’t any pros
        
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        May 30, 2020 2:05pm
      - Mike
        
        I think that’s a fair point. Perhaps I should amend that to – more wood processing here would be a good thing, but not something that needs to rely on special government support for one industry.
        
        4 0
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        May 30, 2020 3:55pm
      - Manu-Rau
        
        Sorry, what counter?
        
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        May 31, 2020 1:07am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    A bloke from California shipped his entire sawmill operation to Whanganui in the mid 1990’s and set up here, with significant Council support. A number of locals worked for him and picked up valuable skills, but the business eventually fell victim to fluctuating timber prices, and sadly is no more.
    
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    May 30, 2020 4:09pm
- jv
  
  100% political ploy for himself. Nothing will be achieved by such a mindless miniscule intervention in the global forestry market. New Zealand has lead the world in plantation forestry since the middle of the last century based on its investment in the Forest Research Institute/Scion. As David Skilling implies that is still where opportunities for the future are still being discovered.
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:29am
- MCos
  
  Just remember that come September if the election results are close enough National will almost certainly have no qualms about climbing into bed with Mr Jones.
  
  Toddy & Mister Mister Jones
  Will have a thing goin’ on
  Toddy knows that it’s wrong
  
  4 11
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  May 30, 2020 9:45am
  - burt
    
    I think you are right, they will do that very bad thing that was a very good thing done by Labour just 3 years earlier.
    
    3 1
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    May 30, 2020 2:49pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Go to Aus.
  
  8 2
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  May 30, 2020 9:59am
  - burt
    
    Thinking about it.
    
    4 1
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    May 30, 2020 2:50pm
- hookerphil
  
  As an aside – I went to the Stuff article – as is their practice halfway down something started playing – Fullscreen
  
  1 NEWS
  It comes after Goldsmith was wrongly identified as being part of Ngāti Porou by Nikki Kaye.
  
  This has nothing to do with the forestry article and is simply there to put National in a bad light. $1 was too much.
  
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  May 30, 2020 11:19am
Tony Stuart

The Labour MP’s who were berating National over a perceived lack of diversity on its front bench have been notably silent on the appalling treatment dished out to Louisa Wall.

Speak up Kiri Allan and co; your silence on this is deafening, considering how much you had to say about the Opposition earlier in the week.
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May 30, 2020 8:50am
- sooty
  
  Maybe they think she’s tits and would not take the hint to leave. So she gets 3mths pay and 3mths after the election to find a new trough!
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:12am
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    She is a lawyer and her partner runs a law firm so she will have a job.
    
    10 1
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    May 30, 2020 10:24am
    - sooty
      
      And put the office junior out of work?
      
      3 0
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      May 30, 2020 11:39am
- MrTips
  
  It’s an internal LGBT war, assisted by payback to Kirton for taking one for the team over GroperGate™ at the Labour youth camp.
  
  Homosexual men and women have always fought, they just use perceived homophobia to unite them, which they even admit publicly: https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/23/lesbian-gay-happy-family-worlds-apart?espv=1
  
  The LGBT train is anything but united – Auckland “Pride” clearly showed us that.
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:29am
artemisia

Working from home. I predict it will fall out of favour quite quickly, especially full time working and for workers in the middle of the distribution curve (that would be the average ones).

The novelty for workers will fall away when they miss the social aspects of their jobs and are paying for their own coffee. And toilet paper. And when their bosses start asking awkward questions about what they are doing all day, mainly because their own bosses are telling them to cut costs pdq or dcm.

Managing staff remotely is not easy, even for experienced bosses though the webcam and monitoring apps can track. Staff would love that. And experienced bosses are thin on the ground, ask any subordinate. Those bosses in the middle of that distribution curve, uncertain and suspicious, will be saying see you back in the office next week.
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May 30, 2020 8:52am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The quickest way up the slippery pole is to bond with the bosses at Friday drinkies and to discus the sports results at Monday morning T.
  
  (bit tuff for us sports-phobic t-totallers)
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:50am
- alloytoo
  
  Those bosses are currently looking at the CBD office and thinking “why?”
  
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  May 30, 2020 10:41am
  - Nickc2
    
    Wait till employees start charging their companies for working from home. There are plenty of charges they could exploit. It’s not all beer and skittles.
    
    11 2
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    May 30, 2020 11:28am
  - artemisia
    
    Some of those CBD bosses will be thinking hot desks and half the floor footprint.
    
    Hot desks work Ok (for some not all) when they can find one.
    
    4 1
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    May 30, 2020 11:40am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Hot desking has to be one of the stupidest ideas around, with some very limited exceptions. It’s up there with outsourcing support to, say, India to a firm that claims to have the necessary skills but these are not actually tested or demonstrated before the first major disaster hits.
      
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      May 30, 2020 10:34pm
- tf78
  
  I know of someone who was working from home for ATEED (a few years ago now) – he used to log on and then go sailing.
  
  8 0
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  May 30, 2020 11:36am
  - alloytoo
    
    I was once at a business lunch in a restaurant at the mouth of Durban Harbour.
    
    While we waited we watched vessels puttering in an out. Then we saw a yacht with a hot blonde and someone who looked suspiciously like our Sales Manager.
    
    A mobile number was dialed and the individual dived below decks.
    
    Following week he was our ex-sales manager.
    
    10 1
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    May 30, 2020 12:58pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    There was a time when I could never locate bods at Dept of Conservation…always told they were working from home.
    (Why they weren’t working out in the bush/mountains/swamps was never explained).
    
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    May 30, 2020 2:00pm
I remember when

Red MAGA Hat = Red BULL
10 2
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May 30, 2020 8:53am
I remember when

Golriz Ghahraman and Donna Miles-Mojab Refugee Agency.
See us avoid the queue!!
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May 30, 2020 9:00am
- MrTips
  
  Who will sponsor Boochani’s asylum application? Miles-Mojab? Unlikely to be Ghahraman.
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:31am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    He’s not a refugee. Yet another economic migrant shopping and now finding a weak willed welfare paying nation to put him up for life. Wanker and the woman he road in with.
    
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    May 30, 2020 7:08pm
I remember when

Louisa Wall is alist MP
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May 30, 2020 9:04am
- Tony Stuart
  
  No, she is the MP for Manurewa, and will hold that role until the election. Beyond that, she is at the mercy of the Labour Party.
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:09am
  - JackRabbit
    
    The list MP system as part of MMP is how the party asserts control over its members. Toe the line or we will put you down the list.
    
    MMP = Mixed up, Maniacal Politics.
    
    19 2
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    May 30, 2020 9:36am
    - MCos
      
      That’s more or less the way it’s supposed to be.
      People have two vote and the one that decides the composition of the House of Representatives is the party vote.
      So a party obviously wouldn’t select someone who goes against what their party stands for.
      In the good old days the government was determined by who won the most electorates. When Muldoon was PM the Nats came second behind Labour in the popular vote three times.
      The people of Botany voted for Jamie-Lee Ross, not National. That’s why he has no conscience about not resigning. If he’d been a list MP he would have been there by the grace of the party. I don’t know what the law says, but a list MP can hardly leave the party and expect to keep his seat.
      
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      May 30, 2020 11:17am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Correction. SOME of the people of Botany voted for Jami-Lee Ross. The rest of them voted for the National candidate who just happened to be Jami-Lee Ross. Big difference.
        
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        May 30, 2020 5:04pm
Brian McDonald

One of the silliest circular arguments at the moment is about the tourist industry, people that did and now want the borders closed moan about the crippled industry. Well, not everyone thanks to the innovation of many in the industry including the great price reduction on camper vans. Plenty of folks out there fighting for their businesses or new ones with their thinking caps on.
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May 30, 2020 9:07am
- Mike
  
  One thing I wonder about is the amount Kiwis typically spend on overseas travel versus money spent here by visitors.
  There are some very good deals and promotion at the moment to encourage internal tourism. Of course, not all money that Kiwis would have spent overseas will go to internal tourism, but surely a good proportion of it will at least be spent in NZ one way or another.
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:11am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    mmmmmmm….. now where good I go in NZ that has the sun beating down, birdies tweeting and decent coffee?
    
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    May 30, 2020 9:56am
    - Mike
      
      Gisborne?
      
      6 0
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      May 30, 2020 10:06am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yep, brilliant day here again…
        shall I go and work in the garden, wander down to the beach, or try stalking the PM?
        
        13 0
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        May 30, 2020 10:50am
      - sooty
        
        Visit inlaws again is she, well she was in the neighborhood!
        
        7 0
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        May 30, 2020 11:43am
    - oldfella
      
      Tauranga. 🙂
      
      3 3
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      May 30, 2020 10:08am
      - Tall Man
        
        Yeah nah 🙂
        
        Mt Maunganui in June?
        
        3 2
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        May 30, 2020 10:36am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Wellington. Definitely Wellington 😉
      
      3 0
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      May 30, 2020 2:52pm
      - Brian Marshall
        
        Can’t beat Wellington on a good day. The harbour and the city is unbeatable and the coffee is great. On a bad day……. not so much.
        
        1 0
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        May 30, 2020 7:15pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Well, not here where I am ! Good coffee but not much sun to be seen.
      
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      May 30, 2020 10:35pm
  - Tall Man
    
    We travel 3 or 4 times a year, usually o’seas for 3 and in NZ for 1 but sometimes add in an extra local trip. We avoid school holiday times here and in Oz but it doesn’t seem to matter in Asia or further afield as much.
    
    As Maggy says, sun is a must but decent food at a decent price and reasonably priced accommodation help.
    
    NZ has been a fail for us for many years and I doubt that the covid con will make a permanent change to local operator attitudes.
    
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    May 30, 2020 10:26am
    - Sacha
      
      I’v e been to the places in NZ that interest me. I loathe flying (it was fine while I was young), so overseas travel is off the list. And I have recently decided that I won’t bother with cruising – even on the QE2.
      So I’ll do my international travel on the internet, and carry on with my usual local activities, and let the restless ones rush around as they wish.
      
      4 1
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      May 30, 2020 12:41pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Our NZ stuff is centred around family or friends, although we don’t stay with them 😉
        
        I have traveled the length and breadth of NZ so don’t need to “go to see the country”.
        
        I love Asia although the “roughing it” is well in the past and flying at the pointy end does add to the journey and reduces the pain in the arse factor a tad. Australia also provides an easy holiday and having family and friends spread around also helps make it an attractive option.
        
        6 1
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        May 30, 2020 2:11pm
    - Durden
      
      Add to that the attitude of jumped up toffs like thhe NZ actor Sam Neill, who constantly and famously raged against the bloody tourists in Queenstown getting in his way.
      
      Hope he is spending up large in the local economy and contributing to all fund raising there to make up now. Arrogant prick.
      
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      May 30, 2020 2:34pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Mrs kk and I have been significant o/seas travelers and spenders. Lots of adventure type travel, and almost no 5-star hotels + city bus tours. Those experiences suck. We have also seen practically every corner of NZ, some bits many times. I can assure you that close to 0% of what we typically spend on international adventures will now be spent in NZ.
    
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    May 30, 2020 2:51pm
  - theoldbloke
    
    Mike. Like the current Gummint you appear to be engaging in wishful thinking.
    
    While there may be a chunk of dosh spent in the very near future in NZ verses overseas travel. It will be relatively small as mainly Patriots do their thing to support NZ business.
    I suggest that it will be small and shortlived as many who previously went overseas are now un or under employed. So no overseas dosh equivalent to splash around.
    
    I also suggest that those who normally take an overseas holidya will just postpone it for a couple of months until overseas travel resumes, and yes Veronica overseas travel will resume.
    
    Just look around the world at countries opening their borders in the next 2 months!!! Also look at announcements of airlines starting to increase flights. Dont have to be an economic genius to work out what will happen when the rhetoric (and casulty rate drop off)
    
    So sorry. The 38 billion reportedly spent by Kiwis overseas will not mean anywhere near that amount of money being spent on local tourism instead.
    
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    May 30, 2020 4:31pm
- Frank the tank
  
  There will be more of that when the sheeple realise the goose has well and truely been cooked with respect to the economy.
  
  It will only start becoming apparent after a couple of months with no job. Airline pilots were the first hit hence the sad stories coming out about them now. Wait till it is the accountants, lawyers, bankers, HR and marketing staff in July…..
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:19am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “…the goose has well and truly been incinerated to ashes…
    
    14 2
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    May 30, 2020 9:38am
    - Tall Man
      
      Like our pizzas last night.
      
      Let’s see, turn on the oven and pour a whiskey … slowly drink whiskey. Put pizzas in over pour another whiskey … and another …. eat blackened pizza 🙁
      
      Definitely not a culinary trend in the offing.
      
      Newshub poll shows 48% think Muller can defeat ardern. Interesting.
      
      17 1
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      May 30, 2020 10:30am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Sorry to hear about your pizzas Tall Man. What you have just described is what has happened to NZ.
        
        The Coalition of Clowns, were too busy getting drunk on the Covid-19 lock down power effect, they didn’t notice, and have not yet noticed, that the NZ economy has been become like your blackened pizza. But it doesn’t matter to them anyway, they don’t like pizza.
        
        14 1
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        May 30, 2020 11:21am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Word around the traps is though that Jacinda enjoys a good single malt whisky. At least she has ONE redeeming quality 😀
        
        9 2
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        May 30, 2020 11:33am
      - sooty
        
        Shit you take along time to drink your whiskey, do you have tall glasses?
        
        8 0
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        May 30, 2020 11:46am
      - Tall Man
        
        “do you have tall glasses?”
        
        What a silly question ……. 😉
        
        5 0
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        May 30, 2020 12:22pm
  - quarterpack
    
    Frank your reference to ” sheeple implies you have some sort of insight into how the current economic situation could have been avoided. Please share
    
    6 1
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    May 30, 2020 9:45am
    - Tall Man
      
      Easy. Test all entering NZ. Refuse entry to all positives unless they agree to quarantine at their cost. Monitor quarantine physically.
      
      Test anyone presenting with symptoms and all associated with them and quarantine until tested negative.
      
      Isolate those at risk that want to be quarantined and get on with life.
      
      20 2
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      May 30, 2020 10:34am
      - JackRabbit
        
        That’s too simple Tall Man. Where’s the opportunity to mount a political coup using that process?
        
        12 1
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        May 30, 2020 11:01am
      - MCos
        
        Refuse entry to all positives . . . full stop.
        
        Personally I’d restrict entry to Oz & PI for the meantime.
        That’s where most tourists have come from historically.
        The other two main sources are China, who I wouldn’t trust right now and the US where the virus is too rife.
        
        6 1
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        May 30, 2020 11:32am
      - Tall Man
        
        I guess that’s why I regard myself as an honest man 🙂
        
        ardern said you could be in politics and not be a liar. Pretty sure she’s sorted that bullshit out.
        
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        May 30, 2020 11:55am
      - Tall Man
        
        As someone of low to zero risk, I’d happily travel anywhere at the moment.
        
        I’d avoid places that are heavily burdened with cases at the moment as the health system may not cope if I had a non covid illness but apart from that, I’d be on my way tomorrow.
        
        6 1
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        May 30, 2020 12:24pm
    - theoldbloke
      
      Do what other countries have done.
      EG Cambodia.
      
      You must have a negative Covid test with 72 hours of boarding
      You must have $50,000(Thailand $100,000) USd medical insurance.
      You must have a valid visa(NO Visa on arrival)
      
      On arrival
      Test all the passengers on a flight.
      If ONE passenger tests Positive ALL passengers go to Government Quarantine for 14 days
      No Positive tests then passengers can self quarantine for 14 days. On the 13th day they must present for a Covid Test.
      
      6 0
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      May 30, 2020 4:39pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Some of us accountants will be needed for mopping up in the business failures.
    
    11 2
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    May 30, 2020 10:02am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I’ve booked my campervan for August. 6 berth Mercedes. 9 days. $540 including zero excess insurance. Just seemed a deal too good to pass by.
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:36am
  - GJM
    
    To put that into context, quite a few years ago we hired one before we bought ours. $1200 for a long weekend as I recall.
    
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    May 31, 2020 6:34am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://babylonbee.com/news/twitter-hires-french-immigrant-hilareaux-lclintoneux-to-fact-check-trumps-tweets?utm_content=bufferd0620&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer&fbclid=IwAR3OHseoS3wA9ssp6qJZvGMYuS1vGEydgj9P2Jl5q6kFMU6NdFE2yRk3UwA
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May 30, 2020 9:23am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8351105/WHO-hails-goodwill-ambassador-Peng-Liyuan-fails-mention-shes-wife-Chinas-President.html
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May 30, 2020 9:29am
- oldfella
  
  I preferred the WHO’s choice a while back of Robert Mugabe as a Goodwill Ambassador. He’s dead now, but he could have shown Cindy a thing or two about turning a prosperous food-basket country into a sh*t hole. While making himself, and his cronies, very, very, rich.
  Hang on, was that Mugabe’s how-I-did it autobiography I spotted in the bookshelf behind her on her last Zoom chat to the nation?
  Tova, Jessica, get in here. You need to run interference. ‘MAGA, MAGA, MAGA’.
  
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  May 30, 2020 10:15am
  - quarterpack
    
    Robert Mugabe ran an economy in which almost everyone become a billionaire, and deserves some respect for that
    
    18 0
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    May 30, 2020 11:06am
    - oldfella
      
      Yep, everyone finished up with billions of dollars in an economy where it took a million to buy a loaf of bread.
      It’s a sad story, and typical of the political corruption that is endemic in so much of Africa.
      
      11 0
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      May 30, 2020 11:58am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I have a Zimbabwe 100 Trillion Dollar note, worth about NZ$4.50
      
      8 0
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      May 30, 2020 2:27pm
      - gorse
        
        Won’t be too long and it will be worth 100 trillion NZ Dollars
        
        5 1
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        May 30, 2020 4:19pm
- emmess
  
  Comparing this story about Xi’ wife with the Hilareaux L’Clintoneux story above, it hard to know which one is taking the most piss
  Truth is stranger than fiction
  
  10 1
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  May 30, 2020 10:15am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The ‘bee’ is pure satire
    
    4 1
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    May 30, 2020 11:22am
Benedict Yu

It is the personal anecdotes that make this real. A neighbour is an Air New Zealand flight attendant. Loved her job. Now redundant. Partner has also lost his job. Can’t afford their rent. Relationship has collapsed. So 3 months ago they were fine. Now their lives are upside down. ?
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May 30, 2020 9:45am
- Swifty
  
  To paraphrase Deborah Russell, R and Martin Williams – if, after this little lockdown and no big deal regarding the economy, that relationship has broken down then it can’t have been a very strong relationship to begin with, must have been inefficiently managed and deserved to go under.
  
  New stronger relationships will emerge to take their place.
  
  (Sarc and, Benedict, I’m very sorry to hear that, Swifty)
  
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  May 30, 2020 10:23am
- Tony Stuart
  
  That’s really sad to hear Benedict, but it’s a story we will hear more and more in the weeks ahead as unemployment bites deeper than 90% of us can remember in our lifetimes. Anecdotes like this, and the story of the Mad Butcher owner in Pukekohe who took his own life after his business went belly-up will resonate more and more, and it will be harder and harder for the Government to defend its position, especially when Willie Jackson opens his gob:
  
  Asked how much unemployment will rise as a result of the extended lockdown and the two weeks in level 3, Jackson was not able to say.
  
  But he did admit that for each day New Zealand is in level 4, and subsequently level 3, unemployment will rise.
  
  However, in the “overall scheme of things” the right decision has been made.
  
  “It [the overall unemployment level] just depends on how much support the Government is going to bring to the table, which is going to be a lot,” Jackson said.
  
  “Another week is not trying to hurt or destroy anyone,” Jackson said, in regards to spending another week in level 4.
  
  However, he immediately withdrew these comments when challenged by National MP Todd McClay.
  
  “There is obviously going to be pain for small businesses out there.”
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/business/economic-ministers-hot-seat-lockdown-extended
  
  With Willie Jackson’s patronising and downright wrong attitude when he is Minister for Employment, Labour is not going to win the PR battle on unemployment, no matter how often the PM parrots the “Jobs, jobs, jobs” line.
  
  26 0
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  May 30, 2020 10:41am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I don’t understand what a minister of employment does.
    
    16 0
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    May 30, 2020 11:10am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Neither does he, it would seem. The only policy he ever talks about is Mana in Mahi, which is aimed at getting jobs for all the young Maori failed by the education system. Had Labour kept Charter Schools (and Jackson was closely involved in one) Mana in Mahi may not have been needed!
      
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      May 30, 2020 11:31am
      - Tall Man
        
        You took the words out of my mouth Tony.
        
        Apart from the fact that he is useless the position is redundant at the moment it would seem, although we are in the middle of the worst employment crisis for decades.
        
        11 2
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        May 30, 2020 12:15pm
    - JibberJabber
      
      He`s an expert in not working… apparently… and is committed to giving New Zealanders first hand experience of his expertise.
      
      19 0
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      May 30, 2020 11:57am
    - Mike
      
      What does a spokesperson for small business do, then?
      
      1 10
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      May 30, 2020 1:37pm
      - septic skeptic
        
        Where Jackson fails utterly in his role is that he appears to have no interest in anything other than Maori issues. This might be acceptable if he was Minister for Maori Affairs – but he isn’t.
        
        5 1
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        May 30, 2020 4:38pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    There is also the Young Miss Universe contestant who took her own life as the fashion line she had just started went belly up.
    
    21 0
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    May 30, 2020 11:25am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Yes, I saw that story earlier in the week; such a needless tragedy. I was also told of a 32 year old young woman who took her own life a few weeks ago in similar circumstances; a business failure, with which she was simply unable to cope. I fear that in the next few weeks as winter kicks in with the long hours of darkness, mental health is about to become a major problem.
      
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      May 30, 2020 11:35am
  - MrTips
    
    Indeed Tony. The insurance companies are preparing for the worst: https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121678266/insurer-partners-life-warns-of-suicide-threat-from-business-closures
    
    Jackson is just beyond words. A useless, arrogant and miserable specimen.
    
    24 0
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    May 30, 2020 11:27am
    - The Right One
      
      Jackson seemed to be drunk or on drugs when he was the AM show on Friday…A total stupid disgrace.
      
      11 1
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      May 30, 2020 2:06pm
- Alex13
  
  It is sad that their lives have been so badly affected by the pandemic. Having said that, they are much better off than those hundreds of thousands who have perished because of the pandemic.
  
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  May 30, 2020 9:22pm
  - GJM
    
    Yes, 80,000 in NZ alone … supposedly
    
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    May 31, 2020 6:39am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump has had enough of censorship.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VIxSUgSzPc
18 4
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May 30, 2020 9:47am
Maggie Pie

Karen’s are notorious for asking to speak with the manager.
13 2
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May 30, 2020 9:49am
- sooty
  
  When they send their food back!
  
  4 0
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  May 30, 2020 11:50am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    The crumb they haven’t eaten?
    
    0 0
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    May 30, 2020 10:03pm
Critical Thinker

China Lied
WHO Complied
Press Denied
People Died
☠️??

https://youtu.be/vRr3-whDHzI
17 2
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May 30, 2020 10:14am
- JibberJabber
  
  https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/dddd9n/never_forget_that_china_is_asshoe/
  
  6 0
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  May 30, 2020 11:59am
I remember when

London Bar Sign:
WARNING:
Bars need you help.
We can only open at 1/3 of our capacity.
Those who cannot drink for 3
Are kindly asked to leave their place to the
PROFESSIONALS
24 1
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May 30, 2020 10:42am
- Left Right and Centre
  
  Last call: ‘I’ll have one for the road if you please’
  . . . ‘three for the road coming up my good man’.
  
  8 1
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  May 30, 2020 11:09am
Tall Man

On a lighter note, Qantas, after being smacked by Mastercard, has fully refunded our international and domestic airfares for our cancelled trip in May this year.

China Airlines have already processed and paid our refund for flights that aren’t due until the end of June so the Taiwanese have far better customer service than the ockers.

So far, AirNZ has provided neither refund nor physical voucher …. arseholes.
24 1
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May 30, 2020 10:46am
Left Right and Centre

The famine starved nation of Ethiopia ’84 – must be a rags to riches story. 38 million people then and 109 million now?
Wow – they must’ve really turned things around.
My heartiest congratulations – well done.

Of course – it was harder to fundraise for them as a westerner child – unlike them I didn’t have a soccer team of siblings to collect donations.
9 2
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May 30, 2020 10:52am
Prince

With a front bench apparently stacked with, well, one Maori, and having all seven Maori seats, how are the indigenous race faring under such a dynamic regime ?
Any news on Ihumatao ? We were told, several times, that this was due to be resolved around eight month ago. Is this another date for the Star Trek timeline ?
And how many Treaty negotiations have been completed by our top-performing Minister, Andrew Little ?
Answer – the same number as ‘items of evidence’ found at Pike River. The same number as ‘wellbeing improvements’ identified in the latest budget. ie Nil, none, zero, zilch, nada and kaore.

The Government of rhetoric and incompetence.
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May 30, 2020 11:05am
- Tall Man
  
  And staring labour right in the face is their removal of a maori electorate mp and replacing her with arena williams most likely.
  
  https://www.arenawilliams.co.nz/
  
  Now arena identifies as maori it would seem but I wonder if she is brown enough for willie and how the churchy bit will go down with the liars in labour.
  
  10 3
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  May 30, 2020 12:03pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    and how the churchy bit will go down with the liars in labour.
    
    I don’t think many of us have any knowledge/understanding of Te Taahi Ringatu (the Ringatu Church).
    
    Might be interesting to see how Labour folks from Tainui and the Ratana Church embrace her into their fold.
    
    6 0
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    May 30, 2020 3:51pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The govt of secretive communist transitional plotting.
  
  8 3
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  May 30, 2020 12:50pm
oldfella

If you think our own MSM has performed appallingly of late (MAGA anyone?), read this article from the excellent Spiked Online about the Dominic Cummings fiasco in the UK. Ouch!
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/05/29/the-media-story-about-dominic-cummings-has-collapsed/
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May 30, 2020 11:15am
oldfella

Some thoughts from Peter Dunne (who knows a thing or two about political survival), on the Nats change of leadership and how/where it might lead.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2020/05/29/1204524/only-one-thing-matters
9 3
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May 30, 2020 11:25am
- sooty
  
  Why do failed politicians have to comeback and haunt us?
  Peter Dunne, Wayne Mapp, Helen Clark are but three, old ghosts.
  
  5 9
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  May 30, 2020 11:55am
  - artemisia
    
    Can be good insights from those who have been elected law / decision makers in the past. Nobody is forced to agree, quite Ok to rely on opinions from recent student politicians in the MSM.
    
    12 0
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    May 30, 2020 1:24pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I would have been hard-pressed to recognize any of the achievements/failures of Wayne Mapp, Barry Brill, David Garrett or Rodney Hide when they were in Parliament, so have never carried a torch for any of them or their parties.
    
    However, I appreciate the fact that they appear on this forum and express their opinions and memories.
    
    Usually much better value than some shallow once-over lightly piece from a “political reporter.”
    
    19 1
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    May 30, 2020 2:42pm
    - Tall Man
      
      “Usually much better value than some shallow once-over lightly piece from a “political reporter.””
      
      No contest in my mind either Maggy.
      
      9 2
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      May 30, 2020 3:18pm
MrTips

I must say, Eddie Murphy has done really amazing work convincing the world that his comedy character TheNuttyProfessor is a TV presenter called Neil DeGrasse Tyson.
6 3
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May 30, 2020 11:31am
JibberJabber

OMG ….Jack Tame has a MAGA hat…..!
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/saturday-morning-with-jack-tame/opinion/jack-tame-todd-mullers-maga-hat-exposes-our-selective-outrage/
17 0
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May 30, 2020 11:53am
- septic skeptic
  
  If Muller had a pair he would have worn it to the very next press conference.
  
  17 2
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  May 30, 2020 1:30pm
- ross411
  
  As much as I have no tolerance for Jack Tame, I have to respect him for this. But Tame pontificating on whether Muller should have displayed it, when Tame is on the left and has dispensation to do whatever he wants when Muller doesn’t.. is not quite the same.
  
  8 1
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  May 30, 2020 2:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Tame did not ask Muller about the hat on Q & A. Prob because Muller already knew that Tame had a MAGA hat. Tame knew this and did not want to make himself look like a bigger prick than he already is.
  My opinion
  
  15 2
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  May 30, 2020 3:05pm
Maggie Pie

For the last few weeks, i’ve noticed one of the new Trolley Boys down at New World really seems to have the hots for me. He is always sooo helpful with loading my car.
We went shopping there this morning and I pointed him out to my partner. He said he doubts he’d be an ex-Air New Zealand pilot 🙁
14 4
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May 30, 2020 12:00pm
- MH
  
  there’s a lot of emotional baggage about lately
  
  4 0
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  May 30, 2020 12:42pm
- tui47
  
  Two years ago I was getting out of my car in what is probably the same NW carpark as you visit. While I sorted out my reusable bags my daughter informed me that a man was looking at me. I thought this a big odd considering that my daughter was 18, blonde she has longer legs than I do. I slowly turned around and saw that he was indeed looking at me. He winked at me and smirked before continuing to move past me. He was at least ninety and was hanging on to a walker. Luckily his hearing didn’t seem to be so good as he didn’t seem to hear the loud sniggering from my two kids who continued to snigger as we followed him (slowly) into the supermarket.
  
  12 0
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  May 30, 2020 1:19pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    LOL 😛
    
    I’ll tell you what id worth getting next time you’re there, and that’s the new ‘Greggs Currywurst Ketchup’
    
    We had it on our fries at lunchtime….sooo delish!!!
    
    6 0
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    May 30, 2020 1:56pm
    - tui47
      
      My husband loves fries. Far too much.
      
      4 0
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      May 30, 2020 5:31pm
- seismac
  
  He probably has just bought new jandals for the new job and is hoping to some toed in the hole too????????????
  
  2 0
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  May 30, 2020 3:58pm
- theoldbloke
  
  Lock down delusions perhaps Maggie???
  
  I must admit to getting “favoured status”” smiles and help from young ladies here in Cambodia(yep no flights back to NZ so may as well tuff it out).
  
  Its the lump in my pants that is the main attraction. (Yep back pocket-wallet).
  
  Amazing what deprivation will do to ones thinking.
  No Job=No money=No food
  In their case, hoping I will buy dinner, food or help with rent.
  
  It certainly has been an eye opener about living in a country with no social welfare.
  
  And for the curious. I am supporting 4 local families with some weekly assistance for food etc.
  My money my choice. I hate giving to charities after some bad experiences in the past.
  
  So Maggie I hope the attention deficit dissorder that hit you in lockdown is fast relieved when /if Kindy Cindy allows you all out to play (Level 0)
  
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  May 30, 2020 5:30pm
Left Right and Centre

Talking of one last comment for the road:
A-a-a-nd in *other* fake news . . .

The NRL has come up with a novel answer to zero crowd matches. Canned fake crowd noise and cardboard cut-outs of fans. They are 100% dedicated to total realism; drunken racist slurs and converted tennis ball machine that throws bottles. Plus a cardboard streaker.
8 1
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May 30, 2020 12:03pm
MH

On top of the Beehive all covered with malaise
Ardern lost her poor majority when Peters sneezed
He sneezed on the table, he coughed on the floor
Until the poor lady couldn’t take any more

She pushed him and the coalition right under a bus
And even to hospital her ex Deputy Prime Minister kicked up a fuss
Poor old Peters had to prove or so a nurse told
That he was barely above the Maori preferment threshold
His level 2 surgery was made as hasty as hasty could be,
But the earliest next appointment wasn’t till half passed three
As soon as he said see ya later
They put him under with a second hand manual ventalator
It grew great big bubbles including a sauce
and being from parliament it was HP of course.
So even if you treat him with hydroxychloroquine and cheese
Hold on to your maga hat and don’t ever sneeze.
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May 30, 2020 12:28pm
greybeard

Queen’s Birthday Honours List is coming up.

Sir Kelvin Davis
Sir Ian Lees-Galloway
Sir Philip Twyford
Sir David Clark
Sir Winston Peters

Did I miss any ?
14 1
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May 30, 2020 12:42pm
- Tall Man
  
  Naming or shooting 🙂
  
  9 2
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  May 30, 2020 2:00pm
- Komata
  
  Greybeard@1242
  
  Of course you did. DAME Jacinda Ardern!
  
  However, good Communist that Cindy is, she will of course, immediately turn down such an award as being representative of the Western Capitalist, Imperialist, Running Dog system that she loaths with a passion, and when doing-so deliver a stinging rebuke to the lackeys of the American imperialist banking system.
  
  IF you believe that she would do that, then I have a bridge to sell you; the one that connects New Zealand to Australia.
  
  11 1
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  May 30, 2020 2:19pm
  - MH
    
    for a minute there I thought you had put an s on the bridge
    
    4 0
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    May 30, 2020 3:40pm
  - GJM
    
    Is there still an empty spot in the Order ofNZ list? Supposedly our top 20 kiwis, which includes the Minister of Wine and Cheese, Johnathan Hunt.
    Ardern would like to think she is number 1 in NZ so seems a natural award for someone who saved 80,000 kiwis
    
    0 0
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    May 31, 2020 6:49am
- burt
  
  Sir Ashley Bloomfield.
  
  8 2
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  May 30, 2020 3:08pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Trevor? for services to democracy lol
  
  6 0
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  May 30, 2020 4:02pm
- Inandout
  
  Perhaps Sir Karel Whatshisname, for services to recreational drugs.
  
  7 1
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  May 30, 2020 5:08pm
- theoldbloke
  
  Sir Whats his name Boom Field? DGH
  
  6 0
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  May 30, 2020 5:32pm
Littletramp

Another day with no new cases of covid according to the “experts” and no cases for 8 days now. One question, why is the 1 case still current, not the one that was advised 8 days ago?
16 1
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May 30, 2020 1:27pm
- Durden
  
  I wish they would put out a detailed analysis of the cases identified, age, how did they present i.e. symptoms and severity of symptoms etc, co-morbidities, how long did they take to recover etc.
  
  Wouldn’t this be useful information to help people make their own decisions on how they would respond to the risk of Covid for their own situation.
  
  Also without undertaking statistically sound sample testing for serological antibodies (a la Iceland), how will we know the extent of unremarkable un-recognised untested infections (i.e. mild or asymptomatic cases) to get an accurate feel of herd immunity achieved in our population ?
  
  Or don’t they purposely want Kiwis to know this information so that they can keep exploiting the their dire danger/risk narratives and sell propaganda about how brave and heroic the COL’s actions have been in protecting us ?
  
  I wish the media would ask these question as a thinking/inquiring rather than a compliant kool-aid drinking media should.
  
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  May 30, 2020 2:56pm
  - burt
    
    We can’t let people make their own decisions. What the hell are you thinking Comrade?
    
    15 1
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    May 30, 2020 2:59pm
  - artemisia
    
    It would also be helpful to report ‘died with’ or ‘died from’. Have an idea Sweden does that. Perhaps it can be tricky to specify accurately. It does seem strange that a recovered 96 year old is included in the very small number of deaths (with and from) to be consistent, whatever that means.
    
    6 1
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    May 30, 2020 5:23pm
- burt
  
  There isn’t enough people on welfare to risk the outcome in September. We need at least 55% of people reliant on the state before we risk giving people a choice who will lead us for the next 3 years.
  
  14 2
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  May 30, 2020 2:58pm
  - MH
    
    A good dose of sugar makes the medicine go down…..
    
    7 0
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    May 30, 2020 3:44pm
surfing

“Covid 19 coronavirus: Top expert dismisses calls to move to alert level 1 as ‘ignorant'”
Top epidemiologist Sir David Skegg says anyone crying out for an immediate move to alert level 1 is either ignorant or trying to score political points

Maybe the people wanting to move to level 1 just don’t want to lose their house… how ignorant of them. They should just shutup , pay their taxes so that David Skegg can pay his mortgage!

What an insulting little man!
32 3
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May 30, 2020 3:35pm
- barnacle bill
  
  @surfing
  
  You of course, being such an intelligent, educated and trained epidemiologist.
  
  I would score you on both of his counts, 100%
  
  6 12
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  May 30, 2020 4:12pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  72? and a Jacinda sycophant. Silly old prick.
  Too many old people with opinions.
  I am 68, blaahhhhaa
  
  10 5
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  May 30, 2020 4:37pm
  - MCos
    
    As I recall David Skegg was very critical of the way the government was handling the situation earlier on.
    
    5 0
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    May 30, 2020 5:17pm
- Inandout
  
  Skegg is a university professor who no doubt has never owned a business, and is on full pay. Academics should be shut away in a spare lecture room to study their navels.
  
  12 1
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  May 30, 2020 5:12pm
- theoldbloke
  
  If only we knew what Level 1 is or will be?????
  Sorta like Level 2 definitions. Kept changing depending on the whether(Whether there is votes in it)
  
  7 1
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  May 30, 2020 5:34pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Epidemiologists are stuck in their labs and opinion pieces. They see the micro picture not the overall.
  
  9 3
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  May 30, 2020 5:44pm
- Alex13
  
  “…either ignorant or trying to score political points”
  A rather accurate observation.
  
  4 0
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  May 30, 2020 9:10pm
Swifty

The entitled and those who think the world owes them a living can jabber and blabber all they like about “deserving” a living wage etc – but don’t think for a moment that this has no effect on jobs and their viability:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121550370/burger-king-failed-under-the-weight-debt-and-low-profit-margins

Tight margins plus wage levels you have little control over means business failure.
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May 30, 2020 3:44pm
- Inandout
  
  Swifty, and Stuff failed because people preferred the internet for news.
  
  8 0
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  May 30, 2020 5:14pm
Swifty

“What has kept England on its feet during the past year? In part, no doubt, some vague idea about a better future, but chiefly the atavistic emotion of patriotism, the ingrained feeling of the English-speaking peoples that they are superior to foreigners. For the last twenty years the main object of English left-wing intellectuals has been to break this feeling down, and if they had succeeded, we might be watching the S.S. men patrolling the London streets at this moment. Similarly, why are the Russians fighting like tigers against the German invasion? In part, perhaps, for some half-remembered ideal of Utopian Socialism, but chiefly in defence of Holy Russia (the ‘sacred soil of the Fatherland’, etc. etc.), which Stalin has revived in an only slightly altered from. The energy that actually shapes the world springs from emotions — racial pride, leader-worship, religious belief, love of war — which liberal intellectuals mechanically write off as anachronisms, and which they have usually destroyed so completely in themselves as to have lost all power of action.”

An excerpt from “Wells, Hitler and the World State”, written by George Orwell in August 1941
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May 30, 2020 5:30pm

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