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July 21, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 21 July 2020

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General Debate

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MT_Tinman

Why?

The bit that I can’t understand is why?

I was young once, many, many years ago.

Cameras were available then, even if cell phones and the internet weren’t.

Hell I even had a Polaroid camera once. It was completely bloody useless, expensive as hell to use and I sold it to a mate. I think he dropped it in a river.

I never even thought about taking a “dick pick”.

I certainly never thought about putting one in an envelope and sending it to a sheila I hardly knew – at least not well enough to know her old man was a communist sympathiser.

So please explain to my the why.

Then we can start on the second “why”.

Why did the silly c#@t not resign immediately he found out the girl’s father was a communist sympathiser and she’d told him about the “dick pick”?
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July 21, 2020 8:04am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The bit that I can’t understand is why?
  
  Because you are not a salacious creep.
  
  No need to try getting into the head of men who send nasty stuff to females..
  
  Some men are creeps; most aren’t.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:34am
- MCos
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  As we’ve seen previously if you don’t want the whole sordid business brushed under the carpet, as has happened before with the Member for Rangitata, you involve another political party.
  At least the Labour Party didn’t politicize the incident as Paula Bennett chose to do, but passed the complaint on to the Leader of the Opposition to handle.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:38am
  - Lance
    
    And mysteriously the media have all the details?
    Must be clairvoyance by Tova et al.
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:02am
  - Ruahine
    
    I wonder how long the PMs Office has had this piece of information. The timing of the release is rather fortuitous as far as Labour is concerned.
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:07am
    - MCos
      
      Last Wednesday
      Passed it on like a hot potato when they had authority from the victim and her parents.
      
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      July 21, 2020 9:25am
      - Tall Man
        
        2 1/2 days to get “permission” yet it hits the press asap……
        
        Bullshit.
        
        Wouldn’t you expect a phone call from the pm’s office about this?
        
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        July 21, 2020 10:30am
    - Inandout
      
      Ruahine, just before parliament resumes; immaculate timing.
      
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      July 21, 2020 9:26am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Are you sure? The media knew more than National AND Jacinda’s office got the info on Wednesday and passed it on late on Friday. Sounds very much like politics.
    
    Paula Bennett’s situation was the opposite – Labour hid the info for months and a victim got so angry that they asked Paula to out the info.
    
    So yeah, not even close to the same thing. Does prove Jacinda a liar over “I would have fired him” though.
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:21am
- doggone7
  
  Maybe the flaws in their brains, minds and personalities are much the same as those in any who’d go into utter mindless default mode with garbage like ‘the girl’s father was a communist sympathiser.’
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:16am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Let me play the Devils Advocate for a minute: the “schoolgirl” in question here is a 19 year old university student. If you’ve ever set eyes on a 19 year old female, that is 100% a woman.
  
  Was it unwise? Yes, very much so. But the fact is she is not a minor, which is probably why the police haven’t taken any action. When first I saw that it was a “schoolgirl” I envisaged a giggling 15 year old high school pupil. But that is not the case.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:34am
Two bob

any bets on what political drama will come today?
We must be due for another quarantine breakout, national had their hold my beer moment yesterday so labours turn now.

guna be a looong and interesting journey to election day
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July 21, 2020 8:04am
Tony Stuart

Andrew Falloon has resigned from Parliament. It’s hard to see how Judith Collins could have handled this “delicate” matter any faster or more effectively.

And an interesting aside from her interview with Mike Hosking this morning. Collins said if she finds any of her staff released information about Falloon’s behaviour proactively to the media, they will be sacked. She also said she will seek an assurance from the Prime Minister that she would do likewise. Somehow, I doubt the PM will be either willing or able to give her that assurance.
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July 21, 2020 8:06am
- MCos
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I would have thought the disciplining of the other leader’s staff and MPs is not their business.
  Having said that in politics there’s never any shortage of advice for the other side on who should be fired, but usually over competency issues.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:13am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Strictly speaking, it’s not. But Collins has thrown down the gauntlet to the PM to deny that anyone in her office leaked information to the media.
    
    And that makes me wonder whether Collins is following the old advice of never asking a question she doesn’t already know the answer to.
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:21am
    - Mobile Michael
      
      Bridges did that, and he knew the answer was one of:
      
      1. King hit on Mallard.
      2. Find the disloyal MP.
      
      2 was always going to be a tough result, but he handled it very well and saved National a lot of trouble when his dodgy deals were exposed. Switching off Bridges was a mistake, they had made back 80% of it and now this bs.
      
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      July 21, 2020 8:37am
      - DeepBlue
        
        Can’t seriously blame Judith for shit that happened before she became leader. I think she has handled it correctly. Fallon gone by breakfast as an electorate MP is impressive.
        
        It seems to me discipline in National has been lacking since John Key.
        
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        July 21, 2020 8:57am
      - Flossie
        
        Deep Blue, be fair. It would seem discipline has been lacking across all parties for some time.
        
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        July 21, 2020 10:26am
    - MCos
      
      The PM had the complaint about Falloon on Wednesday, but the first the general public knew was when he resigned for mental health reasons yesterday.
      The real story then started to emerge.
      There are a number of people involved who knew the real story and it doesn’t take much imagination to figure out who they might be.
      
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      July 21, 2020 8:53am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        The PM had the complaint from the parent on Wednesday, but her staff did not contact Collins’ office until 4pm on Friday. Why did they not pass the complaint on immediately, given in reality it had nothing to do with the PM, the government, or the party she leads?
        
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        July 21, 2020 9:22am
      - MCos
        
        Because they sought the approval of the victim and her parents.
        
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        July 21, 2020 9:28am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Somehow the Media were recipients of information that the PM assured us were handled confidentially by her Department.
  
  Clearly RNZ and the media knew that there was at least another woman involved and Stuff reports that they had seen some of the images..
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300061529/andrew-falloon-sent-sexually-explicit-photos-to-another-young-woman
  
  Who has sent info to RNZ and the Print media?
  How did the media know this issue was more than a Mental Health matter?
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:13am
  - Two bob
    
    cindy: hey rememember that fat cheque I wrote ya.
    
    media: comrade
    
    cindy: feast on this circle like sharks
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:16am
    - Sacha
      
      The trouble for the media is that people get rather bored with the sexual activities of others. It’s not that interesting, being that it generally turns out to be a pretty ordinary bit of gossip.
      I am getting used to the idea that it’s only Labourites who feast on this sort of stuff and who want to tell everyone that they know all about it .
      The 19yo who told her parents about the photo has declared her political allegiance. Most people would have said “yuk” and deleted it, maybe even felt slightly ashamed that someone would think they’d appreciate the gesture..
      Not that I’m excusing Falloon at all. Grubby is the politest word I can think of..
      
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      July 21, 2020 11:05am
      - IC5000
        
        > The trouble for the media is that people get rather bored with the sexual activities of others. It’s not that interesting, being that it generally turns out to be a pretty ordinary bit of gossip.
        
        The Daily Mail has been using this business model with success for decades. This kind of statement show just how out of touch you are with the average voter.
        
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        July 21, 2020 12:58pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        She was right to complain. But to police and/or national leader, not pm. That decision was a totally political gesture.
        
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        July 21, 2020 1:52pm
  - Tall Man
    
    “the PM assured us were handled confidentially by her Department”
    
    Never trust a confirmed liar.
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:25am
    - DeepBlue
      
      Odd she stated that yesterday… Without prompt.
      
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      July 21, 2020 8:58am
  - Paulus
    
    Surely if it happened to one of my daughters I would take her straight to the nearest Police Station.
    I assume that this gas been done ?
    Why Not ?
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:46am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      The matter was reported to Police in the first instance, and the Police decided it didn’t meet the threshhold for prosecution. Having failed at that hurdle, the complainant’s parents then wrote to the PM. Why they would do that instead of going directly to the leadership of the party the MP belonged to definitely gives cause for speculation.
      
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      July 21, 2020 8:53am
      - MCos
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Because it would have been brushed under the carpet?
        It has subsequently emerged that the media knew this has happened before. Judith said so on TV1, unless my comprehension is off.
        
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        July 21, 2020 8:57am
      - RJ
        
        This happened last Wednesday, which was a day after Judith became leader, possible with a leadership up in arms the day before they decided to write the pm
        
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        July 21, 2020 9:54am
      - hullkiwi
        
        MCos, if you listen to Judith’s interview with Suzie Ferguson, there were hints of a hit job.
        
        As this saga is unfolding the only person coming out with any integrity is Collins. During her interview with Ferguson, she made it clear:
        1. Her concern was for the young lady and subsequent further victims);
        2. She was not going to sweep it under the carpet;
        3. She wanted Falloon to front to her and answer for what he had done;
        4. She could not trust him, as his story did not match the facts that she had been informed of, or as they emerged;
        5. Her trust in him was gone, and given what he had done, she did not believe it was appropriate he remained a member of parliament, and she was urging him to resign today. She could not sack him, because he is (was a elected Member of a seat);
        6. She was playing catch up with the story, but was dealing with the facts as they were becoming known to her.
        
        Given, that facts about the story are being leaked by 1 or more people, Collins has acted with integrity a d acted when she knew of the facts. Who do you believe has been leaking? Choices are:
        1. The victims;
        2. The victims families;
        3. The police;
        4. Falloon or his family;
        5. His mates who he suggests used his phone;
        6. The PM’s office/Chief of Staff;
        7. The PM;
        8. Collins’ office
        9 Collins.
        
        Given the timeline of how Collins has dealt with it, what she has said and her statement that if anyone in her office was leaking they would be sacked, it does not look like the leaks are coming from her or her office. Any suggestions?
        
        Finally, Collins has had good press for the past week, what about this story suggests that she would want this albatross around her neck during the election campaign?
        
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        July 21, 2020 9:56am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Truly remarkable isn’t it?
    
    Must be all that 9th floor kindness?
    
    Don’t think Judith could have handled it any better. A masterclass in damage control.
    
    Nice touch to suggest that the PM also make sure her people respected the victim’s interests!
    
    Just like they did every time Labour people molested the crew. How many times was that now, and how many people were fired?
    
    Bwuhahahaha!
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:57am
- Tall Man
  
  A senior labour MP attended and allowed alcohol to be available to minors at the labour sex camp in 2018. That alcohol abuse led to 4 young people being sexually assaulted.
  
  A senior advisor within the prime minister’s office bullied and assaulted staff but was protected by the pm and her other senior staff.
  
  A National party mp with zero ministerial responsibility makes a total dick of himself, the police aren’t interested, yet his actions will bring down the party according to bryce edwards.
  
  The information was received in ardern’s office Friday but withheld from Judith Collins until the following day …. yet the media have all the juicy bits. Open and Transparent ….. Kind …….. I think not.
  
  Yet we are required to not pass on gossip and call her nasty names.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:21am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    I heard from Collins this morning that Ardern got the info on Wednesday.
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:35am
    - artemisia
      
      Ms Ardern is very busy with her single focus. That focus is not running the country, she tells us.
      
      So where is the time to read a letter?
      
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      July 21, 2020 9:24am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Ah, that’s ‘Dr’ Bryce Edwards to you Tall…
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:56am
- oldpark
  
  @ Tony Stuart 8.06am
  
  Especially since Ardern had the letter in her office since last Wednesday . We could say that at least that type of Sexual Abuse and its exposure would not be covered up . Just saying .
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:33am
- Fletch
  
  Yeh so Falloon is ~~goon~~ gone. Basically a day after we all found out about it. And the media are all over Collins response to him, etc. Yet when someone made a sexual allegation against someone in Jacinda’s own office she apparently knew nothing about it for weeks, trying to play dumb. Very different response from the media.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:36am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  “It’s hard to see how Judith Collins could have handled this “delicate” matter any faster or more effectively.”
  
  Correct, but that didn’t stop the piece of lefty-sympathising exrement known as Barry Soper spouting yesterday that she sat on it for far too long before doing anything.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:56am
  - Souvlaki
    
    Yes..Soper and his wife are in fact snakes !
    I think I’m going to switch to Ryan Bridge on Magic Talk at this time…having already left Newstalk from 9am-4pm because of their poor quality .
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:32am
    - Tall Man
      
      Yep, Ryan Bridge is excellent, Plunkett needs a kick in the cods lately. Not sure if it is overwork or just a shitty nature.
      
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      July 21, 2020 10:24am
      - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
        
        Yes, he was in particularly poor form yesterday. Snappy and unpleasant.
        
        Aggressively closed down anyone who dared to disagree with his pugnacious position on not charging for quarantine.
        
        Clearly a middle aged man in need of a cup of tea and a lie down?
        
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        July 21, 2020 10:48am
      - Sacha
        
        Ryan Bridge is very personable, but . . . . . . . . . he needs to watch himself. He can get carried away with his own cleverness and verge on smart-arsery.
        
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        July 21, 2020 11:11am
      - Inandout
        
        TM, Plunkett is taking a few days off from today. If he worked for private enterprise he would be asked to remain in his job. And no, Magic Radio is not strictly private enterprise when it is government supported.
        
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        July 21, 2020 11:34am
    - LTA1955
      
      Anyone noticing The Hits (97.4) and similar stations running commentary for the Labour Party in the half hourly news headlines. Is the 50m incentivised job retention in action here? Getting switched off in our house!
      
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      July 21, 2020 1:33pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Likewise!
        
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        July 21, 2020 5:24pm
- pdm
  
  The PM would certainly not be sacking anyone.
  
  She has well proved that is not part of her `modus operendi’ with Cullen, Clark, Twyford and the staff member under suspicion in her office.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:12am
gorse

Does anyone else not like the modern trend to serve main meals in bowls? I gave up eating out of bowls when I was a child. I find using a knife and fork in a bowl problematical. When I put them down to talk, for example, they invariably slide into the bowl and
I have to wipe then to be able to hold them again. What was wrong with plates? I am try to avoid restaurants that use bowls.
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July 21, 2020 8:08am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Ha ha. If you eat noodle and rice food use bowl and chop sticks. If you eat steak and chips use plate and knife and fork. Easy.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:19am
  - Random T Person
    
    Bless you Benedict. I even enjoy your comments on something as inane as this 😀
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:50am
    - The Housekeeper
      
      Couldn’t agree more. If I see meals are being served in nursery bowls at other tables I will ask for my dinner to be served on a proper dinner plate. If that’s not possible or they don’t want to, I leave and never return. The last meal I was served in a bowl was roast lamb at our local pub, roast soup more like. By the time they got it on a real plate it was cold. I won’t go back.
      
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      July 21, 2020 9:38am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Yeah well that is stupid – but how do you eat noodles off a plate, or why would you want to?
        
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        July 21, 2020 9:56am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Benedict, you’re usually so intelligent. Surely you don’t take people here for so stupid they don’t know that or can’t use chopsticks? The problem is meals that used to be on plates, which need cutting.
    
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    July 21, 2020 2:03pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I do not encounter that.
      
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      July 21, 2020 6:03pm
- igm
  
  I do not like the modern idea of not being able to get a good old fashioned feed of steak, eggs, onions and tomatoes when required, without an hour’s research before venturing out.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:30am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Well I guess that is the market at work. 🙂
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:02am
- MCos
  
  When I first went to Thailand it took me awhile to come to terms with using a spoon & fork instead of knife and often a bowl.
  However for Thai food it makes sense.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:02am
- Jules99
  
  It’s a step up from serving them on a brick which was fashionable for a short while.
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3076033/Bring-plates-s-growing-trend-restaurants-serving-food-shovels-dustbin-lids-iPads-revolting-says-MATTHEW-BELL.html
  
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  July 21, 2020 11:35am
lifesgood

God, the media are a disgrace. What’s Tova O’Brien’s problem, or more to the point who is paying her for her constant hit jobs and bias. Andrew Falloon has gone, good, but the Labour camp sex pest got away with it didn’t he? And the Labour parliamentary sex pest has also got away with it. Massive hypocrisy. The fact that this young woman’s parents told the PM and not Judith Collin’s shows this was nothing but a political hit job. I am not excusing Falloon,s sleazy behaviour but it reminds me of the pony tail incident where the girl involved was used by Labour as a political pawn. Labour are the filthiest of fighters and it sure smacks of desperation.
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July 21, 2020 8:10am
- Nukuleka
  
  Absolutely correct, lifesgood. Very telling that the parents went straight to the PM’s office with the dirt. Judith is handling this well.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:21am
  - igm
    
    Politically motivated hit job, maybe even a set-up . . . lefties stoop very low to get results.
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:31am
    - rouppe
      
      A set up… Do you think the girl got advice from Andrea Vance on how to set traps…?
      
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      July 21, 2020 8:58am
  - kowtow
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    To be fair.
    Did they go straight to the PM ? It appears they went to the Cops first . Failing to get satisfaction there they took it to the PM . The Media then got it .And the right result has happened .
    
    As to whether there was political machinations , that probably goes without saying .
    
    But Collins is blaming mental health and drink , almost to try to excuse this .
    
    Any wonder the parents didn’t trust the system ?
    
    The whole thing reeks.
    
    BTW , one wonders what the Cops are or are not about . Even if there was no evidence for a charge that’s still the sort of thing that needs to go to HQ and for someone to have a quiet word .
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:43am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “that’s still the sort of thing that needs to go to HQ and for someone to have a quiet word”
      
      Disagree – I would prefer the police to play straight. If it was not an unlawful act it does not concern the police.
      
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      July 21, 2020 9:03am
      - Nickc2
        
        Has anyone asked Cindy how the info came to her? Was it by phone call to her private No? Was it by word of mouth and by whom? Was it a text message and from whom? But more interesting would be was it relayed to you from a known police confidant/source?
        Just asking.
        
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        July 21, 2020 10:51am
    - SmokerGuy
      
      “But Collins is blaming mental health and drink , almost to try to excuse this” that is a complete crock of shit and you know it. She was told a lie by him, now he knows the truth she is not doing anything of the sort. Stop peddling bullshit!
      
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      July 21, 2020 9:11am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It will get worse yet. This will be a kill or be killed campaign season. A election this year?
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:44am
- Random T Person
  
  No, Andrew Falloon is a disgrace. Don’t conflate the issues. So what about Labour’s scandals? Bottom line is this pervert has been up to no good and then he’s pulled the mental health get out of jail free card. That is the problem here. Focus on the problem.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:52am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yeah I agree – If his mental health was so bad that he behaved like this, I am surprised that he managed to get through each day without being noticed. Sadly some men let there dicks over rule their brains, and I would wager that there was alcohol involved. A good rule is never do these things while intoxicated:
    
    1. Send text messages
    2. Send emails
    3. Make phone calls to anyone but your partner to come pick you up.
    4. (and I can vouch for this) Do online shopping.
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:09am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Focus on the real problem: mental health is only a ‘get out of jail free’ card to the woke. Jacinda has demonstrated that for years.
    
    To normal people it’s ‘take the consequences and get help’. Judith has just demonstrated that.
    
    But the media don’t acknowledge that difference.
    
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    July 21, 2020 2:10pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  And the pony tail incident went on forever. It was a pretty stupid thing for John Key to keep doing, but you would think he had felt her up by the reaction.
  
  Apart from that ponytails on waitresses not hygenic. If she had changed to a stylish French roll, all problems would be fixed 🙂
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:05am
  - Prince
    
    Could’ve been worse.
    Headlines:
    ‘Key and Waitress in French Roll scandal’
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:36am
Hacked-Off

Judith’s handling of this Falloon matter has been at warp speed (less than 24 hours) – in all its iterations. Especially as its taken Ardern months to act against a few of her people, if at all (think Sepiloni, Twyford and Lees-Galloway come immediately to mind). The comparisons between Judith and Ardern should be like chalk and cheese to many people.
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July 21, 2020 8:18am
- MCos
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The office of the Leader of the Opposition was notified on Friday and Falloon resigned on Monday.
  That’s a long 24hrs.
  None of those other people you mentioned sent porn to young women.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:12am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Judith’s office got notified late on Friday (5pm is what I heard).
    He was gone Monday morning. In real terms that’s more than 24 hours obviously, but you shouldn’t count weekends because it takes time to sort things out in a non-face to face context over weekends. That Jacinda’s office waited until late Friday to send the info was in itself very dirty politics as it allows people like yourself to pretend that it took too long to deal with the issue.
    
    As for the other people – Twyford accused someone of rape (with zero evidence) for political gain and Lees-Galloway gave residency to a criminal that destroyed multiple lives. Those things are still very bad things right?
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:41am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Sorry, I meant Mallard re the rape accusation. Twyford is just useless.
      
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      July 21, 2020 10:45am
  - gravedodger
    
    Heard of “working Days” MCos, possibly not understood where your stone is located.
    Soper suffered the loss of a bit of his diminished credibility for even suggesting a lack of speed by Ms Collins.
    Any faster and due process becomes a significant aspect.
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:45am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    MC: I do not think that word long means what you think it means.
    
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    July 21, 2020 10:44am
  - Nickc2
    
    Only because they didn’t think of it first.
    
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    July 21, 2020 11:15am
  - Inandout
    
    MCos, are you absolutely sure of that last statement?
    
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    July 21, 2020 11:36am
- Inandout
  
  Hacked, I often wonder why an opposition MP hasn’t used parliamentary privilege to blow these ‘unusual’ actions by Ministers out of the water. OK, in ILG’s case it may rebound, but the others?
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:34am
Poppa

We have all done dumb stuff & then really regretted it. I have a gold card but I still do dumb stuff at times

The problem here it seems is that he lied to Judith when questionned. That is is not a winning strategy
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July 21, 2020 8:18am
- kowtow
  
  We’ve all done dumb stuff . Indeed .
  
  But not as parliamentarians and not dick pics .
  
  You have to draw a line somewhere .
  
  I’m going to get all judgy here ; Do you really think lying to Judith is worse than sending unsolicited dick pics?
  
  As to whether lying is a winning strategy . Of course it is . Politicians lie to the electorate constantly , all parties , all hues . And every 3 years someone wins .
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:30am
  - Random T Person
    
    Yep, you’re on the money here Kowtow. Why on earth does any old perv think he should be shotgunning nudes out, er, willy nilly? I mean, what the ACTUAL f.
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:55am
  - IC5000
    
    So they were actual dick pics of Falloons family jewels and not some random porn images?
    
    Wouldn’t this rule out someone else sending the images at a party unless they either used stored dick pick images or photographed their own in which case identification would by easier?
    
    [Mod. Note: Do try to keep up – the pics allegedly were of a woman.]
    
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    July 21, 2020 1:04pm
    - IC5000
      
      DPF should write a clarifying post. It’s going from a schoolgirl to a uni chick and now there appears to be multiple women. Was the dick pic thing just some random speculation then? It’s going to be a long week for the National party
      
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      July 21, 2020 3:04pm
- mark15
  
  I think JC won,don’t you?
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:50am
JibberJabber

Arderns $50 million media bribe starting to payoff, Campbell this morning questioning Judith Collins, Q”when did you find out?”,
A”Saturday morning”
Q “why did it take so long to sack him”?
A”needed to be a face to face meeting”
So found out on Saturday sacked on Monday, Labour sympathiser sez took too long…
Labour Party sex offenders, name suppression, and zero consquences.
Corrupt paid off Media…”crickets”
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July 21, 2020 8:19am
- Nickc2
  
  Yes, I witnessed that media witch’s cauldron brewing on TV1 this morning. I guess we can call John Campbell a witch these days.
  From an observer’s POV, this was nothing more than a snow job in putting the boot into the National Party and JC in particular.
  No doubt Cindy and Co. consider the taxpayers’ $50m plus spend as an admirable tactic and money well spent.
  Just wait until Nicky Hagar joins in stirring the cauldron. His previous Dirty Tricks will fade into insignificance by comparison.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:51am
J.F.

Genuinely interested in the views of non-hunters out there. Does DOC’s tahr cull concern you on ethical grounds? DOC are shooting tahr from helicopters and leaving them to rot on the mountainside. When we go hunting for tahr, we take the meat (delicious in patties) and often the skin and horns off the mountain. If you have a couple of minutes, please check out what the tahr cull actually looks like on this clip (from 50secs onwards):
https://www.instagram.com/tv/CC2TcFNpPB2/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Would appreciate your thoughts.
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July 21, 2020 8:21am
- Raphael
  
  Yes, I am not a hunter (don’t even own a gun, and never been on a hunt). And yes it does concern me, which is why I have signed the petitions demanding that the tahr cull ends.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:28am
  - J.F.
    
    Thanks Raphael
    
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    July 21, 2020 11:31am
- Two bob
  
  im a hunter and I have no sympathy same when it comes to deer/waro.
  When you have trophy hunters advocating on tv and youtube to let them grow etc and too scared to cull nanies/hinds incase they spook their big boy its selfishness thats got us to this point.
  
  If youre a hunter do your part and control the ENTIRE population not just manage your trophies. if we cant do that then expect a waro or s&d operation to do it for ya.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:39am
  - J.F.
    
    Thanks Two bob. You’re dead right. We, as hunters, need to control the breeding stock. Fewer animals means less pressure on the habitat and the animals themselves are in better condition.
    
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    July 21, 2020 12:41pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  No, I do not see any ethical problem with leaving wild animals for nature to deal with where and when they die. That’s what has always happened to them.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:40am
  - J.F.
    
    Thanks Albert. Your point is certainly valid. I would point out that the culling operation shoots dozens of animals at a time in each valley meaning the amount of dead bodies decomposing and entering the ecosystem is higher than what would occur “naturally” as it were.
    
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    July 21, 2020 12:22pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Still not seeing an environmental or ethical problem that is anything like as great as the environmental and ethical problems caused by leaving them alive
      
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      July 21, 2020 1:06pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It doesn’t concern me on ethical grounds.
  
  The native ecosystems of our Alpine regions can not sustain heavy mammalian browse and trampling.
  https://www.doc.govt.nz/nature/pests-and-threats/animal-pests/tahr/
  
  What concerns me is that DoC has not been managing the Tahr population to a level that has relatively light impact on the vegetation and mountain soils.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:57am
  - J.F.
    
    Thanks for the reply Maggy and thanks for linking to the DOC article. I hadn’t read it before.
    
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    July 21, 2020 12:24pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Here’s a recent map showing where Tahr are expanding beyond their former controlled range
      https://www.doc.govt.nz/contentassets/8d63ce5ded064ca98ff5f44ce9da72af/tahr-control-outside-feral-range-apr-jun-2019.pdf
      
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      July 21, 2020 1:58pm
- david
  
  Not in the least. Our mountain environment is particularly fragile with a number of native species close to extinction. The mixture of vegetation has developed without any browsing or grazing animals so is particularly vulnerable.
  To me Possums, Tahr, Chamois and Deer are all non-native introduced pests the we should eliminate along with introduced plants that spread in the high country like wilding pines and other spreading shrubs that threaten thousands of hectares of tussock grassland.
  Just one man’s opinion.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:07am
  - kowtow
    
    Yeah well uman beens are introduced too.
    
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    July 21, 2020 12:24pm
    - Classic Liberal
      
      All the more reason to not make it worse by allowing introduced species to ruin the mountains. We have a huge responsibility.
      
      Wasting the meat isn’t ideal, but if that’s the only way to reduce tahr at affordable cost, go for it I say.
      
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      July 21, 2020 2:31pm
  - J.F.
    
    Thanks for the reply David. Your opinion is certainly a valid one.
    
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    July 21, 2020 12:28pm
- chukar
  
  J.F.
  While not a Tahr hunter ,My take.
  
  I see Sage and the Greens policy of eradicating Tahr as yet another environmentally friendly, valuable industry being unnecessarily shut down by a small group of ideologues.
  
  Having said that there is no doubt that Tahr ,and all wild animals do need managing.This for NZ wider benefit.
  I understand that there are already management processes in place that are reasonably successful.
  
  These processes may need tweaking but slaughtering every thar is no answer.
  
  My suggestion would be that the management of this important resource be given to a stakeholder group ,including hunters ,landowners /land managers / tourism etc /in which DOC and LINZ are not the only participant.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:45am
  - J.F.
    
    Cheers chukar. Good points. The Tahr Foundation’s legal challenge and the protest actions have been in response to DOC dropping their tahr control plan on stakeholders at the last minute and charging ahead without waiting for any feedback. Science and evidence based management of all of NZ’s big game animals would be the optimal result.
    
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    July 21, 2020 12:33pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Ok, if no extra burden on the taxpayer.
    
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    July 21, 2020 2:34pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Never hunted much and that was a very long time ago. But no problems at all with exterminating vermin, and without much doubt, Thar are vermin that severely damage our rather fragile alpine ecosystems. I’d agree with a total extermination effort, and sorry hunters, but unless we can show that Thar can be tightly controlled to minimise damage, they’re not a sustainable “industry”.
  
  Just my $0.02 worth.
  
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  July 21, 2020 3:28pm
- Two bob
  
  My mate just flew out from a 4day tahr hunt on the weekend. the last day they just got to the valley floor and the chopper came through… 18 shots with a shotgun to get 1 bull tahr!!!
  
  j.f with shooting like that you can be sure the CoL is spending that money inefficiently.
  
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  July 21, 2020 10:30pm
bruceavon

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
What a bloody mess. A few points. Why do these guys think they can lie and get away with it? Anyone else got any crap to reveal because do it now (including if Woodhouse has anything more to say).
I don’t think the ‘we are the best team’ message in the election will fly anymore. I would quietly take it out.
Very boring and disappointing. Also the posts on here from last night blaming Labour and the PM for this and the leak are desperate. One person to blame here. Collins seems to have jumped on this now, but she knew since Friday. Hard position for her though.
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July 21, 2020 8:22am
- lifesgood
  
  What rot, Bruceavon. Judith has acted quickly and decisively. Jacinda NEVER has. She’s a full blown hypocrite.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:36am
  - bruceavon
    
    Yes. Sorry I agree. Just read David’s other post. She gave him the benefit of the doubt and what can you say when someone says they have mental health issues. Judith did everything right. Just very disappointed because things seemed to be going so well.
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:48am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Where is your proof she knew Friday? Cindy knew Wednesday.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:38am
  - MCos
    
    Her office knew Friday, but passed it on the next morning.
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:19am
    - Tall Man
      
      So Judith doesn’t sit around in her office all day?
      
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      July 21, 2020 10:10am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      They knew at 5pm on Friday. Close of day. Jacinda’s office deliberately waited until the last minute so people like you could use the “they knew Friday” argument. It’s dirty politics straight out of Jacinda’s office.
      
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      July 21, 2020 10:20am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Yes, it is a bloody mess Bruce, but Collins has applied a tourniquet and stopped the bleeding. Amputating the damaged limb quickly followed.
  
  And to be 100% accurate, Collins’ staff found out about it on Friday, but she wasn’t told until Saturday morning. Her response was to summons Falloon to Wellington on Monday morning for a “please explain”. Falloon chose not to be completely honest with her, and has paid a high price for that. His political career is over, he’s the subject of public ridicule and revulsion, and there will doubtless be lots of soul-searching going on on the home front.
  
  However, it’s understandable that many, myself included, want to know how the media got the level of detail they did. Even then, the Herald made a meal of it, reporting initially that the recipient of the unsolicited photo was a schoolgirl, before correcting their story. If someone from the PM’s office contacted media with confidential information about a complainant, isn’t that as much of an issue as Michelle Boag passing on confidential health information to MP’s?
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:39am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s sleazeball season.
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:46am
    - Tall Man
      
      “labour election season”.
      
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      July 21, 2020 10:09am
  - bruceavon
    
    The point is Tony, that the leak is not the problem, the behaviour is. And how has pursuing the leaker usually worked out for us? Lately it led to Michelle Boag.
    And I had to put up with people telling me the Simon Bridges leak was, the PM’s office or Mallard the speaker. I never believed it. And how did that work out?
    There is little to be gained politically trying to find out who leaked it. The public really don’t care. The main point for National is discipline. I think Collins did fine. Likely he lied to her and she gave him the benefit of the doubt. But I will say the same thing I did after the covid email thing, don’t lie and assume everything will end up in the press. Because in New Zealand, it will.
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:03am
    - Boxing junkie
      
      “The leak is not the problem, the behavior is”. You couldn’t be more right, and that is exactly how NZ will feel.
      
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      July 21, 2020 10:41am
  - SGA
    
    Collins has applied a tourniquet and stopped the bleeding. Amputating the damaged limb quickly followed.
    
    Sorry, but after the events of the last few weeks, that analogy reminded me of the Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. (/tongue in cheek)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:09am
  - SGA
    
    If someone from the PM’s office contacted media with confidential information about a complainant, isn’t that as much of an issue as Michelle Boag passing on confidential health information to MP’s?
    
    Probably not (but without knowing the contents of the complaint and the degree to which it said the information was confidential, I’m in no position to judge). The confidentiality of health information is pretty well established.
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:24am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  but she knew since Friday.
  
  She was not informed until Saturday Morning.
  She called Falloon in for a meeting first thing Monday Morning…she was not told full details. She accepted the mental health story and ensured he was sent back to ChCh safely.
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2020/07/general_debate_21_july_2020.html/comment-page-1#comment-2763307
  
  How long had the PM’s Office been sitting on the information?
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:40am
  - surfing
    
    Using mental health to cover up one’s poor behaviour is problematic.
    
    Itf hurts those who truly have mental health issues, because others will think they are just fabricating stories.
    
    But , is it known whether the mental health aspect is true or not?
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:49am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I think Falloon may well have mental health issues, and possibly a problem with alcohol. He says he is getting help, and that’s good.
      
      Before I had my breakdown almost three years ago, I made plenty of bad, irrational and inexplicable decisions; depression had clouded my judgment, and what I thought at the time were good ideas were anything but. Thankfully, I didn’t send pornographic images to third parties. But with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight and a now much-clearer mind, I can see the pattern of self-destructive behaviour. Coming to terms with that was a significant part of my recovery.
      
      So I’m not willing to discount the possibility that mental health issues clouded Falloon’s judgment and his sense of right and wrong. Resigning from Parliament might be the first step back to wellness for him.
      
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      July 21, 2020 9:17am
    - Tall Man
      
      To be fair, you have to be a bit of a nutjob to do what he did don’t you?
      
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      July 21, 2020 10:06am
    - JibberJabber
      
      This what happens when *journalists* lose all objectivity, the first excuse Falloon gave Collins was “mental issues” , when asked Collins gave this answer, a couple of hours later his story has changed and “wasn’t him, someone took his phone”.
      Collins clarifies this morning that she no longer believed anything he said because his story kept changing.
      Media and Labour sycophants can’t/won’t follow the timeline cos’ it does not fit the narrative they are trying to push.
      
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      July 21, 2020 10:30am
- JibberJabber
  
  Judith Collins said this morning her Chief of Staff? got the email from Arderns office late Friday and told her Saturday morning.
  And yet, Labour voters and media lackeys running with a “slow to act” narrative.
  Completely ignoring that Arderns “acting” is dead on arrival.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:08am
- Tall Man
  
  Jeez, long bow and slow intellect there brucey.
  
  If we want to do a “best team” comparison I’m pretty sure the ardern team doesn’t even make the “also ran” status.
  
  We all know what numpties she has in her team and it says it all when “what’s in it for wynston” is the “top” performer in the coialition.
  
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  July 21, 2020 10:16am
  - bruceavon
    
    Well I personally think they have the best team. However this position looked a lot better when Todd Muller first used it. Gone now Amy Adams and Nikki Kaye. Resigned in disgrace Walker and Falloon. Demoted Woodhouse. Just not sure whether the moderate voters in the public will buy this one now. And it may draw attention instead to the issues. Strategy wise, I would tend to put all my money on Judith now and step back from that.
    
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    July 21, 2020 10:50am
    - Tall Man
      
      “I would tend to put all my money on Judith now and step back from that”
      
      I think that is the plan.
      
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      July 21, 2020 12:16pm
oldpark

The unwanted and Unforgivable crime of sexual abuse . Here we have two comparisons . Say apples with apples . The latest #metoo type of exposure of the allegations against Mr Falloon for sending questionable Sexual explicit photos to an unsuspecting young University Student . That type of unforgivable action has cost him his job .
Now the other apple comparison. Last year in a Summer Camp run by Labour Three to Four Young people were physically sexually abused .
There was a complete coverup of the alleged events. Even after a Police investigation the culprit was exposed ., He was for some reason allowed to get away with the alleged Sexual Abuse of Three to Four Teenagers .
Was interesting to see our Sycophant Mainstream Media went Incandescent on Mr Falloon yet were visibly much quieter on the Labour Party Summer Camp allegations. Just a Perception . Of course NZs Holier than Thou Mainstream Media could once more revisit the nasty sexual abuse claims that got whitewashed after a Police inquiry into who was responsible for the unforgivable sexual abuse claims at Labours’ Summer Camp . We live in hope.
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July 21, 2020 8:27am
- Random T Person
  
  Let me point something out here, Oldpark, for you and for the rest of us Kiwibloggers. The Labour party sex pest WAS NOT A SITTING MP. Think about this point, because it is important.
  Also, whining about who knew what obfuscates the real issue here: another randy politician misbehaving. Better we know the details of what the pervert was up to…and see the decisive action being taken to excise him from office.
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:58am
  - Tall Man
    
    Yet a number of sitting mps from labour attended and allowed the presence of a massive amount of alcohol to be given to underage kids.
    
    Would you have been so forgiving of those mps had your 16 year old daughter been assaulted by this person while these elected mps partied then hit the sack?
    
    Yes, it is different but FFS, I’d rather my kids got a dirty pic, something they have probably been exposed to many times, from a twit than have unwanted hands shoved down their pants while pissed.
    
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    July 21, 2020 10:05am
  - oldpark
    
    Check out below Random T Person
    
    What part of what Tall Man has blogged don’t you understand . Seems the Sexual pervert at the Labour Summer Camp got away with plenty of fingering.
    Maybe the Police should revisit the Sexual Assaults at the Labour Summer Camp .
    Just for a comparison of Sexual Deviate MPs . How about Darren Hughes and the naked youth seen running down a street in Wellington .Lest we forget .
    
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    July 21, 2020 11:38am
- Durden
  
  Not making excuses for stupidity whatever the excuse and definitely not for lying afterwards.
  
  But as always, without context anything can seem dire. “..for sending questionable Sexual explicit photos to an unsuspecting young University Student ”
  
  “Unsuspecting” — You sure there was no communication before hand between various women and the ex-MP?
  
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  July 21, 2020 11:15am
Simon

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
The National Party Pervert was sending explicit photos to a 19 year old not a schoolgirl.

What a relief eh? In fact these days National can consider this to be a victory. Well she wasn’t a school girl. Bask in the glory of this stunning success.

Well she wasn’t a schoolgirl.
Party Vote National.

National eh? This is what happens when you sell out to the CCP the moral compass is shot to bits.
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July 21, 2020 8:27am
- surfing
  
  Who is basking in glory? All I see is national having to deal with another disruptive event. National members must be wondering what next!!
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:51am
  - Tall Man
    
    At least they “wonder”.
    
    ardernists just bury their heads in the sand and await another pathetic selfie.
    
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    July 21, 2020 10:01am
- Lance
  
  Glass houses Simon… glass houses
  
  So are you contending ANY political party that has a member embroiled in a sexual scandal is unfit for office?
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:52am
- herb1
  
  really hard to accept moral criticism from a supporter of Ardern. Sending dick pics is abhorrent but actual physical sexual violation is far far worse. Ardern bent over backwards ,first to deny ,then to cover up, then to excuse.
  She even has a close personal friend ,close enough to have shared private police operational matters with , who writes songs about murdering ex PMs and raping their daughter.
  Ardern has no moral compass and no authority to throw stones .
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:22am
Simon

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
National party what a fucking shambles.

Selling point.

NZ First is the only brake on Labour.

(dont worry its not my personal opinion – I think all of Wellington are [Deleted – Mod] clowns. Just the same opinion of many other people who dont vote)

NZ First the only viable brake on Labour because as you can see National are a fucking shambles.

Easy votes for NZ First.
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July 21, 2020 8:33am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Wow, Simon is certainly living up to the ‘Simple’ moniker.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:06am
- Tall Man
  
  Oh dear, too much coffee or not enough?
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:57am
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/122186096/china-already-has-a-knockoff-bronco-on-the-way

Rumour has it the final name will be “Fraud Bronco”
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July 21, 2020 8:35am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  WuHeep?
  
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  July 21, 2020 10:48am
Yvette

Political commentator Dr Bryce Edwards from Victoria University told Newshub it was “very bad news for National”.
“Whenever there is a scandal involving an MP, it has some rub-off effect on the party they belong to. So National will be tarnished by association with this,” Dr Edwards said.
He said the public may not be satisfied with the way National has dealt with the issue. – Newshub

But where is any appraisal by Dr Bryce Edwards comparing Ardern’s performance in both the Labour summer camp drinking / sexual assault affair, which she was told of about a month after its occurrence, and her role in the Labour volunteer “rape” matter, resorting the internal party inquiries rather than full and proper Police involvement?
Why would a university political commentator not make a proper comparison between the Ardern performance and that of Collins when such a comparison is sitting there to be made and it is surely his job to do so?

Similarly, one wonders why the parents of the young nineteen year old woman concerned in the Falloon matter chose to inform Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, when her practise has been to bury such issues in months of inquiry, and what does that make of her changing her usual reaction now?
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July 21, 2020 8:37am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Because Jacinda only has concern for females when she can gain capital from the issue.
  
  She’s not bothered about assaults on young Labour supporters or staff.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:02am
  - Happychappy
    
    The leak had to have come from her office because it was confidential and they had ask the parents for permission to give it to Judith Collins. It’s even worse her best friend Jessica done the hit on Judith and National in the six o’clock News on One last evening.
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:24am
    - RJ
      
      Or it could of come from the parents when they read falloon was trying to claim mental health and not what had actually happened
      
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      July 21, 2020 9:58am
      - Libertarians are right
        
        Look at Jacinda’s wording: “I was given general details, not the name of the MP and certainly not the name of the complainant” – that is the definition of plausible deniability. I would suggest that based on her wording she believes that there is at least a chance her office leaked it.
        
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        July 21, 2020 1:18pm
- davidp
  
  >Similarly, one wonders why the parents of the young nineteen year old woman concerned in the Falloon matter chose to inform Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, when her practise has been to bury such issues in months of inquiry
  
  When Darren Hughes got a bit rapey and Labour decided to hide him away from the media, Ardern was assigned to support him at the hideaway. Maybe the university student’s parents wanted to ensure that Falloon was protected from the media and decided that Ardern was the best person for the job?
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:12am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I’m not satisfied that this is not all a put together trap. Labour have no claim on virtue in these matters.
  The more the” leaks” and embroidery the more the concern. I warned of the dirt this season.
  Next to remove Winston?
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:48am
- Yvette
  
  Further – Later on Breakfast, Ms Ardern said her party received correspondence from the complainant Wednesday, that it was “tightly managed” to respect the confidentiality and privacy of the person who wrote in, then she was given a general briefing herself on Friday morning.
  She said she didn’t know what the image contained.
  “My immediate response was – and I was given general details, not the name of the MP and certainly not the name of the complainant – my view was that ultimately it needed to be dealt with by the person who had the ability to deal with it and that would essentially be the leader of that MP’s political party.” [1]
  
  ‘Incredibly frustrated, deeply disappointed’: Ardern speaks on Labour inquiry
  “I need absolute clarity. I have not received it through the competing reports to date … I do need a third party, a reliable, trusted individual to give me clarity and I will act on the findings decisively.” [2]
  
  Has Ardern’s previous bad experience of inquiries, determined that she not even ask who the accused and accuser are this time, as long as she can have nothing to do with them?
  
  [1] https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/pm-says-she-wasnt-interested-in-dirty-politics-after-learning-andrew-falloon-scandal-before-national
  [2] https://thespinoff.co.nz/politics/09-09-2019/incredibly-frustrated-and-deeply-disappointed-ardern-speaks-on-labour-inquiry/
  
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  July 21, 2020 10:12am
- Nickc2
  
  Anyone who takes heed of what Bryce Edwards says is f_d in the head. He’s a rabid lefty FFS.
  
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  July 21, 2020 11:10am
  - Yvette
    
    Nickc2, I may be fucked in the head but point out emphatically I do not endorse anything Bryce Edwards writes (who would) but point out that through him being frequently quoted, if not contributing directly, he often present New Zealand to the world on the Guardian, UK.
    And there you go, perhaps… anyone who reads anything in the Guardian is fucked in the head.
    But that, unfortunately, may be a lot of people.
    
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    July 21, 2020 5:47pm
    - Nickc2
      
      If the Guardian and Bryce Edwards are an item. it explains a bit about the pair of them. Rather like Putin and Xi Jinping I would have thought.
      
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      July 21, 2020 7:11pm
Happychappy

But then you get other media like Newsroom breaking the story that many of the allegations about Jamie Lee Ross from former staff is released the same day that the media got hold of the Falloon fallout.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/go-back-into-a-room-with-a-predator-no-thank-you
This is a orchestrated attack on National all through stupidity by MP’s thinking of themselves instead of what they are elected to do.
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July 21, 2020 8:47am
Maggie Pie

Looks like HDPA’s first love is back running an election campaign for the Labor Party 😀

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1285277401719533570
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July 21, 2020 8:59am
- Tall Man
  
  “Unacceptable to cite mental health”.
  
  Seriously, you’d have to be a fucking nutjob to send a university lass a porno pic if you were a National MP.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:54am
lifesgood

One question that hasn’t been asked is how and why did Falloon have the university student’s phone number? It suggests they may have had earlier communication, doesn’t it? If so, of what type. There’s no excuse for his behaviour but there may be more to this than we have been told.
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July 21, 2020 9:10am
- Sacha
  
  If this were a novel, someone would have confiscated their phones and had a look at their contact call history. My gut feeling is that it’s unlikely to be a random call to someone he didn’t know. (She’s an Ag student, and wasn’t he something to do with Ag too? And is she attending the southern Ag college?)
  And why would a 19yo be telling her parents about such goings on?
  Actually, I don’t care – it’s all past history as from this morning.
  
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  July 21, 2020 11:41am
Thought Criminal

It’s hard to imagine what else National could do to throw the election at this stage. Constant resignations make them look like a party with big issues.

It’s a shame because Labour obviously have no plan except for excessive debt and their front bench are clueless.
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July 21, 2020 9:10am
- Tall Man
  
  And they don’t resign, regardless of what activities they get up to as the media just gloss over them.
  
  Who are the enablers of this incompetence?
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:52am
Notsofast

I wonder what Rodney Hide and Leighton Smith think of this

“By century’s end, polar bears worldwide could become nearly extinct as a result of shrinking sea ice in the Arctic if climate change continues unabated, scientists said.”

Behind paywall

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12349573

I think it is rather a shame, but maybe I am a hopeless romantic.
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July 21, 2020 9:18am
- Tall Man
  
  Nope, just hopeless.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:51am
- JibberJabber
  
  By century’s end, polar bears worldwide could become nearly extinct
  
  Is Lundy heading up there with his Tomahawk, why does he hate Polar Bears?
  Of course, it’s not unusual for the Herald to print Bullshit now, is it?
  https://www.arctictoday.com/narrative-polar-bears-become-problem-arctic-environmental-groups/#:~:text=“The polar bear is not,by 2050 — but not extinction.&text=Some of the 19 polar,25,000 animals, are actually growing.
  
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  July 21, 2020 10:17am
  - Notsofast
    
    Nowhere in that article is there a suggestion that climate change/global warming is not happening as Leighton Smith claims, nor that it is a natural cycle, more in the Rodney Hide camp as I understand him. New Zealanders are adept at never changing their minds with evidence showing they are plain wrong in their favourite beliefs. Thank you for mentioning Mark Lundy who might be perusing his CCRC application. Of course Judith Collins will make a top priority repealing the act she and Amy Adams as failed justice ministers vociferously opposed. They are great human beings. They would never change their minds.
    
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    July 21, 2020 10:47am
    - All_on_Red
      
      The article doesn’t mention it’s based on Climate Model RCP8.5- which is rather dishonest as it probably fools the ignorant.
      ‘For the IPCC AR5, CMIP5 has produced a multi-model dataset that includes long-term simulations of twentieth-century climate and projections for the twenty-first century and beyond. The IPCC summarizes near-term projections of global mean surface temperature anomalies in Figure 1. Figure 1 shows that observations particularly since 2005 are on the low end of the envelope that contains 90% of the climate model simulations. ‘
      
      To put that in English. 90% of the Models are wrong and RCP 8.5 is out the most.
      Here’s the Graph figure 1. from the IPCC (AR5)comparing the Models to actual temperatures.
      https://curryja.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/1125.jpg
      
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      July 21, 2020 5:48pm
- cmm
  
  If we extrapolate from the way polar bears are breeding over the last few decades they will take over the whole Northern Hemisphers by the end of this century.
  
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  July 21, 2020 10:40am
- RdM
  
  “exaggerated-fear-mongering-by-proxy.”
  
  https://polarbearscience.com/2020/07/20/new-model-of-predicted-polar-bear-extinction-is-not-scientifically-plausible/
  
  Also see her previous post there (which is also re-posted at wattsupwiththat with comments)
  
  https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/16/polar-bear-survival-contradictions-sea-ice-decline-vs-documented-harm/
  
  “The plea to ‘Save Our Sea Ice‘ for the sake of polar bear survival is a climate change marketing slogan, not a scientific assessment.”
  
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  July 21, 2020 10:46am
- mandk
  
  Crikey, NSF!
  
  You’ll have us believing next the Artic penguin population is under threat.
  
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  July 21, 2020 10:52am
  - alloytoo
    
    Their numbers appear stable (for now).
    
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    July 21, 2020 12:17pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      They are in Anchorage Zoo
      
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      July 21, 2020 4:44pm
  - JibberJabber
    
    Arctic Penguins are the most genius of all the Aquatic Birds, they recognised the potential catastrophe about to befall them and migrated south several millennia before Humans would evolve and begin the destruction of their Northern Habitat.
    
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    July 21, 2020 3:26pm
- RdM
  
  Oh, and I didn’t find it behind a paywall.
  The whole propagandist piece is free to read.
  
  NB the contrast between the two ‘sides’ of the debate, characterised as (my emphasis)
  
  The fate of polar bears has long been a flashpoint in the debate over human-caused climate change, used by scientists and environmentalists as well as deniers in their arguments.
  
  Caveats to the headline assertion are buried toward the end of the article, as usual.
  
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  July 21, 2020 11:31am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yeah, if folks still go around shooting them, then they might go extinct.
  https://thebarentsobserver.com/en/arctic/2020/01/polar-bear-shot-dead-longyearbyen-police-panic-reaction-says-expert
  
  I saw 8 polar bears in 1 week last year when I was in Svalbard.
  3 Adults – 5 cubs. ….. (not altogether).
  
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  July 21, 2020 11:42am
- All_on_Red
  
  It’s all based on the ‘data’ from Climate Model RCP8.5
  It’s been discredited sooooo many times as being completely unrealistic.
  Even the IPCC says it’s junk.
  It’s funny the way they keep trying and sad that some still believe it.
  
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  July 21, 2020 5:39pm
Maggie Pie

People need to get a funny bone ! 😛
Rumor has it the pic was a photo-shopped image of an opposition MP
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July 21, 2020 9:26am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Without the pics we can’t be sure–a catalogue may be necessary for future reference.
  
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  July 21, 2020 1:31pm
Wired-one

Yet again National shoots themselves in the foot after gathering momentum. Ffs unless it’s a policy announcement, or genuine criticism of this government, I dont want to here from National any time soon. So over all this negative press from idiots within the party. Come on Judith, get the troops in line.
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July 21, 2020 10:15am
- Wired-one
  
  The downtickers are obviously ecstatic to have yet another set of poor headlines about a National MP, I’m not.
  
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  July 21, 2020 12:15pm
RJ

Damn, $3million for such messages as “stay home, stay safe”

The Government contracted 28 individuals or businesses to aid the response to the coronavirus pandemic, the bulk of which were for advertising, marketing and communications needs.
As at 31 May, the Government had budgeted or paid out $16,393,391 to contractors.

One News
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July 21, 2020 10:34am
Phronesis

National has an impressive record of picking muppets to represent it in the South Island. It doesn’t say much for those running the Party down there either.

Having said that a bloke sending a pornographic image (of a woman) to a 19 year old woman is hardly worth reporting to the police. Unlike say an 18 year old male escaping naked from a Labour ministers house after having been lured there by a gay Labour MP. But Darren Hughes vacated the country and the media let it go.

The involvement of Ardern is just weird. What about the image made the parents think that she would be interested in seeing it?
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July 21, 2020 10:49am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ardern R. is all seeing, all singing, all dancing and all know-nothing. Winston however knows everything but only releases that in a drip feed. He will enjoy the Secret Foreign Office Officials calling on him to explain the monetary chicanery of the Foundation so generous to him and his bedraggled Party.
  
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  July 21, 2020 1:29pm
- lifesgood
  
  They are lefties, obviously. Terrified their precious princess might get the bum’s rush come election time.
  
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  July 21, 2020 2:06pm
Engelbert Humperdink

[Mod: off topic about an unrelated topic.]
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July 21, 2020 10:53am
- cmm
  
  Hey Mod. How can something be off topic in General Debate?
  
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  July 21, 2020 11:32am
  - Tall Man
    
    Maybe it was an “off” topic … you know, nudge nudge wink wink 🙂
    
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    July 21, 2020 12:24pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  FWIW – It is astonishing that when I make direct reference to the singling out of a National party MP as the epitome of all evils from his caucus, his party, his ethnicity, and all the people who may vote for that party – and then you tell me it is off topic and unrelated when half of the discussion so far today has been about Falloon – who is a male of pallor.
  
  But hey, you’re the Mod, Batman I assume…
  
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  July 21, 2020 12:01pm
  - Tall Man
    
    In my opinion moderation is now exceeding it’s original brief.
    
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    July 21, 2020 9:17pm
- Tall Man
  
  General debate mod, if it’s a “topic” and a start thread then it has to be in doesn’t it?
  
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  July 21, 2020 12:24pm
Durden

News from Hawkes Bay of bad behaviour by a Tangata Whenua racist overlord.

“Rarere will appear at Hastings District Court on Monday on a charge of assault related to allegations he threatened to punch out an RSE worker’s teeth after that meeting”

Also see politically correct reporting by Newshub.

“Danny Lau said he felt like they were being denied justice and treated like “picanninies” (small children) by the Government and MBIE”

picanninies = small children ? Really Newshub ?

Danny Lau also thinks “Corruption is here”, and we are worse than Solomon Islands.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/rse-workers-nothing-will-happen

And there are some deluded on this site who think Kiwis will take on these jobs, and we don’t need immigrants/seasonal workers.
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July 21, 2020 11:36am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Newsroom has been doing a lot of work on this story.
  
  It seems there is a link between the Labour Officer from MBIE and Rarere
  
  An audiotape revealed an MBIE investigator who worked alongside Rarere’s father had been the one to reveal the identities of the workers who had complained.
  
  MBIE will need a clean pair of hands to investigate exactly what has been going on with these seasonal workers…who seem to be trapped in some form of state-sanctioned slavery.
  
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  July 21, 2020 2:10pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Link to Newsroom article:
    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/rse-workers-nothing-will-happen
    
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    July 21, 2020 2:12pm
Sacha

Search for the meaning of “Pickaninny”. First up:
“The picaninny was the dominant racial caricature of black children for most of this country’s history. They were “child coons,” miniature versions of Stepin Fetchit (see Pilgrim (2000)). Picaninnies had bulging eyes, unkempt hair, red lips, and wide mouths into which they stuffed huge slices of watermelon. They were themselves tasty morsels for alligators. They were routinely shown on postcards, posters, and other ephemera being chased or eaten. Picaninnies were portrayed as nameless, shiftless natural buffoons running from alligators and toward fried chicken.”
Both Lau and Newshub need to be more careful with their use of words if they are going to be even slightly woke.
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July 21, 2020 11:58am
- Random T Person
  
  Heh. I call my youngest boy picanninnie, or piccie. Yep, from South Africa where that is/was a derogatory term for little black children.
  Also call both my boys ‘monkey’. There was a massive uproar in South Africa a wee while ago with a black Swedish boy modelling an H&M tee with ‘the cutest monkey in the jungle’ on it. Needless to say the locals took that way personally, though the mother of the boy in question said she calls her lad monkey like the rest of us do (to our monkeys, not hers, natch).
  
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  July 21, 2020 12:44pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Yes, call my grandchildren monkeys, ratbags and all sorts of loving terms. They know darn well I adore them.
    
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    July 21, 2020 4:28pm
- Durden
  
  To be fair those words from Danny Lau’s quote. My problem is with Newshub trying to unnecessarily sanitise the word as meaning “small children”.
  
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  July 21, 2020 2:37pm
I remember when

Just been to see my doctor and in general conversation he was bemoaning the new labelling on alcoholic drinks.
His take was, that they could put a health warning on virtually every product in the supermarket.
What product should labels be on, where does self responsibility fit into the process and how many people would be learning something they weren’t already aware of. How many people that weren’t aware would make a different choice, and would it a better one.
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July 21, 2020 12:57pm
I remember when

Did Jacinda see the letter not open it and pass it on to National?
Did her staff realise what should be done and without any further ado pass it on to National?
Did Jacinda not really see the letter and she wasn’t really aware of what it said?
Who knows, but after her statement we now know what action WOULD cause her to sack a member of her party.
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July 21, 2020 1:08pm
Maggie Pie

Really really sorry to see Wendy Petrie get the arse card from TV1 in favor of that silly bloody Simon.
I have always loved Wendy. She even joined us a couple of times for our girls lunch at Soul Bar.
Oh well, I guess since Simo speaks fluent Te Reo, it was never in doubt.
We’re all hoping TVNZ take the same opportunity to get rid of that “….nauseating little creep” John Campbell
(H1’s description, not mine) LOL!!
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July 21, 2020 1:49pm
- lifesgood
  
  The day Wendy fist pumped when Davis Bain was let off was the end of her as far as I’m concerned. Glad she’s gone.
  
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  July 21, 2020 2:04pm
- graham
  
  Couldn’t have cared less whether Simon or Wendy got the job, to be frank.
  
  As a regular watcher, however, my abiding nightmare would have been John Campbell or Jack Tame. Even my non-political wife commented that John Campbell needed to just get on and read the damn news, not act like he was on a current affairs or breakfast program.
  
  And thank goodness one suggestion, that TVNZ take the opportunity to ramp up their diversity, didn’t get the go-ahead. The article I’ve linked to is incredibly patronising – it honestly reads as little more than “let’s get a brown face in there, because … diversity!”
  
  Of the four suggestions, the article makes a point of mentioning that two people are Maori women and fluent speakers of Maori. Good for them, but honestly, what’s the point? The News is presented in English, and quite rightly so as that is the lingua franca in New Zealand. Other than the occasional Maori greeting and sign-off, there is simply no opportunity for them to use the Maori language.
  
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  July 21, 2020 3:45pm
Surely Knott

“Clemenger BBDO Limited was to be paid $3 million for its role with the response, which is understood to have involved the clear and concise messaging such as “stay home, save lives” and other messages.” according to Newshub.
Ummmm, wasn’t the UK already using the “Stay home, Save lives” slogan?
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July 21, 2020 1:55pm
Captain Mainwaring

Gotta say that Cindy has a most unflattering dress on today. My wife says that those bumps in the front are ‘darts’ in the fabric but they look like nipples to me.
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July 21, 2020 2:18pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  I am worried about the health of the PM. At QT today she looked positively anorexic and could stand in for the Pak n’ Save Stick Man
  
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  July 21, 2020 2:33pm
  - odysseus
    
    Maybe, but totally owned the LoO though with energy and panache. The whole Oppo looked listless I thought.
    
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    July 21, 2020 3:20pm
    - lifesgood
      
      What were you watching, odysseus. Clearly not what I was watching. Man you lefties are tribal to the point of stupidity.
      
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      July 21, 2020 4:26pm
      - DeepBlue
        
        I thought round 1 went to Jacinda. I was really hoping for Judith to have a king hit. Maybe tomorrow. Jacinda did get the bit in about National borrowing from heath and education budget for roads… So I expect a counter to that somewhere.
        
        Judith has been burning candle both ends, with sleepiness nights earlier last week when Todd resigned. Jacinda has been on holiday, and dumping the Falloon thing on her over weekend a masterstroke.
        
        Judith needs a good rest, and a break from her own idiot MPs, and then she will pop back to her old self. Something will go her way soon.
        
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        July 21, 2020 5:17pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      O, poor odysseus! Lured onto the political rocks by the seductive Siren’s song. A story as old as mankind.
      
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      July 21, 2020 4:49pm
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        Thomas Coughlan too apparently – but I think that has more to do with Govt funding…
        
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        July 21, 2020 5:50pm
- fernglas
  
  When you comment on the bulge in Grant Robertson’s trousers being caused by the tailoring, I’ll consider the possibility that this was a comment from someone interested in fashion, rather than a sleaze letting his fantasies show.
  
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  July 21, 2020 3:04pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Dresses like she found a lowboy full of a long passed grandma’s clothes
  
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  July 21, 2020 4:53pm
Don Beckett

Tony Heller tells us that herd immunity is being achieved, even in NY. The Fake News Media have to keep sensationalising infections, because the death rate has dropped considerably, and continues to drop. Looks like poor old NZ has missed the chance for immunity, so a second wave is very likely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEcJo_PTkao
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July 21, 2020 2:45pm
Don Beckett

‘There is more to life than just not getting sick and not dying. People have lost their jobs; food production has dropped, and famine is just around the corner in some parts of the world. … Important human events like weddings, funerals, and enriching cultural events have been curtailed if not prohibited. Schools have closed and few have been permitted or have had the courage to reopen. There is a cost to these losses as well.’

A quote from a friend of mine in the USA. The long term effects of lock-down will be a loss of more lives than it saved.
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July 21, 2020 3:12pm
ex-golfer

With all the news circulating around the thieves masquerading as Councillors at Wellington City Council have today approved a 5.1% rates increase.

Quote a hefty rise in comparison with the widely panned 3.5% increase in Auckland.

I hope WCC follow through on their commitment to critical infrastructure spend, especially on the failing wastewater system, and ditch some of the vanity projects such a cycle-lanes.

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/AK2007/S00426/wellington-city-council-approves-annual-plan-and-51-rates-increase.htm
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July 21, 2020 3:29pm
- RJ
  
  I’m surprised more councils and the govt aren’t dropping things like mad now they know the media won’t be covering it for the next few days
  
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  July 21, 2020 5:50pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

The beginning of the end for social media? Machine learning (OpenAI’s GPT3) can now generate writings that are nearly indistinguishable from humans, in a very short time this will be being used by advertisers, scammers and political astroturfing operations to swamp forums:
https://twitter.com/quasimondo/status/1284509525500989445

It will also no doubt be used by writers and students to speed up their writing processes.
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July 21, 2020 3:37pm
- Prince
  
  Will also replace journalist ‘opinion pieces’.
  Set it for ‘Attack National, praise Labour’ and you have a Jane Bowron clone that can spell, at a fraction of the cost.
  
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  July 21, 2020 4:12pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Yep, most humans can’t detect that it’s output was created by an AI (limited to a few paragraphs from input cues).
    
    https://lambdalabs.com/blog/demystifying-gpt-3/
    
    It cost something like $4.6million to ‘train’, requiring processing estimated to be the equivalent of a few days worth of human brain power (~100 PFlops) and has about 0.1% of the complexity of a human brain. Scary thing is that given how potent it appears to be megacorps will throw money at making it bigger and more complex to apply it to more sophisticated tasks – the path and payoff is pretty easy, just needs more compute/bucks. Expect it’s children to get closer and closer to human level complexity within next few years.
    
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    July 21, 2020 4:52pm
Benedict Yu

So Air New Zealand finally releases its online tool to access credits.

https://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/credit-redemption

It is totally hopeless. There is no way to see your total credit balance (I have 21 bookings in credit). You need to view them one by one. Seven of mine are missing, and there is no way to combine them to pay for new flights.

TOTALLY. USELESS.

For international flights I will never use New Zealand again. Once my free lounge membership expires as my ELITE membership inevitably ends, I will never pay them for lounge access again.

I was willing to give them some slack, and after waiting for 4 months we get this shit online tool that is not fit for purpose and is error ridden.
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July 21, 2020 5:36pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Welcome to the club. Air New Zealand has no idea how much revenue they have lost from us enlightened ex-customers.
  
  I never quibbled about Air New Zealand’s higher prices but started shopping around after Air New Zealand devalued my air points not once, but twice!
  
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  July 22, 2020 7:19am
RJ

Perhaps a future labour or greens policy coming out of the states? Maybe it could be kiwid up. A years free kfc

“The maximum increase would be everybody that has a baby gets a million dollars or something in that range,” said West.

Article
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July 21, 2020 5:48pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Labour put the heavy word on Raymond Huo?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12349713
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July 21, 2020 6:27pm
Inandout

To go offshore for a tad, the New York Times has threatened to publish Tucker Carlson’s home address again. He had to leave the first home when Antifa mongrels attacked while he was at work and his wife and 4 kids had to hide in a cupboard before the police arrived. This time a slime ball reporter from the paper has refused to hold back and Tucker responded that he could easily obtain the addresses of most of the paper’s leading staff. How that publication has sunk into the mire the last couple of years; a true asshole outfit.
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July 21, 2020 6:33pm
- virtualmark
  
  Fun fact.
  
  Tucker Carlson’s home address was previously published by … Fox News!
  
  (It happened back when Carlson worked for CNN. He’d said he was publishing his own home number but actually gave the Fox newsroom’s number. So Fox published his home number in retaliation. Not sure it was “Antifa mongrels” though, since I’m pretty sure it happened before “Antifa” was a thing.)
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:49pm
Happychappy

Our Prime Minister has a short memory on things that have happened under her Leadership it’s alright to trout mouth the opposition when one their MP’s have disgraced themselves especially when it is asexual offence but let’s get it straight Judith Collin fronted the problem and the perpetrator has resigned from the Party. So now look at Jacinda Ardern and the Leadership she showed in the sexual assaults that was done by a perpetrator out of her office,not reported to Police and took more than six months to be sweep under the carpet by our caring Prime Minister by throwing the complaints under the bus to protect her colleague. Then we have the sexual assaults at the Young Labour Summer Camp which had young participators off the head with the alcohol they had consumed when the prime Minister was present and 15 odd months later after having the charges lessened we are still know wiser to the perpetrators name as he fights the appeal system for name suppression. I could name the lies and deceit that has followed from the three Ministers that lost their portfolios that took months to be acted on by Jacinda and she has the audacity to play dirty politics with National and say she took the job of Prime Minister to change that, well her record on the same problems National has is know where near the competence that Judith Collins has showed in her performance over the Fallon disgraceful episode.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/parliament-erupts-in-laughter-over-jacinda-ardern-s-dig-at-judith-collins-leadership-ambitions.html
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July 21, 2020 6:43pm
- RJ
  
  Don’t think we can blame the temporary prime minister for what happens in the courts. Her failure with that case was not involving the police straight away.
  
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  July 21, 2020 7:05pm
RJ

Good article but I very much doubt we will see anyone in the nz media standing up against how crap they have become in their race to be pretend woke

New York Magazine columnist slams company in brutal resignation letter

But he said the reasons for his departure were “relatively simple” – a “critical mass of the staff and management at New York Magazine and (parent company) Vox Media no longer want to associate with me”.

“They seem to believe, and this is increasingly the orthodoxy in mainstream media, that any writer not actively committed to critical theory in questions of race, gender, sexual orientation, and gender identity is actively, physically harming co-workers merely by existing in the same virtual space,” he wrote.
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July 21, 2020 6:54pm
Mark

Oh happy happy days.Now I know you right wing fuckwits is going to shut your eyes and put your fingers in ears ,but I really dont give a fuck.The more down ticks I get is regarded by me and others is to be taken as a badge of honour.I tried to bet Peter williams weeks ago thet Black heart Collins would lead the Nats to the election,he would not take the bet.Here is the good news .your team is going to be humiliated ,wiped out ,fucked after the election .Then maybe you will clean out your Augean stables,clean your selves up and be a viable political force again ,that at least holds the govt to account.I will not hold my breathe ,when you are seen to be mainlining on the likes of Crusher ,a completely classless wretch .you are fucked.Suck it up suckers
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July 21, 2020 7:29pm
- RJ
  
  Can’t you talk without swearing constantly? Your post isn’t worth reading, try again
  
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  July 21, 2020 7:54pm
  - Inandout
    
    RJ, I firstly thought Fraser House may have been the source of this outburst, but I then guessed even they can string a sentence together. In reality a Labour win would see the complete destruction of our economy, end of story.
    
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    July 21, 2020 8:16pm
    - RJ
      
      I cannot even fathom the damage that a greens/labour government will do, just I know we won’t recover from such damage in my life.
      
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      July 21, 2020 8:32pm
- stigie
  
  Have you just come from the Stranded where its swamped in nastiness along with the blog owner..?
  
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  July 21, 2020 8:03pm
- Tall Man
  
  Ha ha ha. Love it. Deperation personified.
  
  Look jacinda, take another pill, go nigh nighs and we’ll talk about it tomorrow.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:03pm
Mark

[Deleted – If you can’t say something intelligent, I suggest you try FB or the Standard mate. I let your first comment through under your brand new name, but that may be your last if you can’t try harder. Mod.]
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July 21, 2020 7:44pm
New Zealand Last

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122205536/nz-first-will-support-national-party-bill-to-take-guns-off-gangs

Will Judith Collins follow in Simon Bridges’ footsteps (never got a chance to get Todd’s position on this) and rule out forming a government with New Zealand First?
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July 21, 2020 8:57pm
- Tall Man
  
  Already done.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:00pm
- RJ
  
  Todd said straight away that it was a caucus decision and that hadn’t changed so he ruled it out day one.
  
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  July 21, 2020 9:57pm

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