General Debate 22 August 2020

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Sigmund Freud

JACINDA, TEAR DOWN THE FLAX WALL!!!
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August 22, 2020 8:00am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  When will someone finally break through the Flax Ceiling and become the first Maori PM?
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:15am
  - lifesgood
    
    Who cares. I won’t the best person for the job, whatever race.
    
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    August 22, 2020 9:23am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      It’s a joke.
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:56am
  - Kabull
    
    Simon nearly did …
    
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    August 22, 2020 9:27am
    - Mike22240
      
      Didn’t you hear? He isn’t Maori enough, it isn’t just blood ideology must be correct too.
      
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      August 22, 2020 10:30am
      - Harriet
        
        He was a Maori prosecutor who was going to be damned from the left on both sides of politics for pressing a case/policy.
        
        He’s more suited to House Speaker in a Collins government. 😎
        
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        August 22, 2020 2:15pm
      - IC5000
        
        Let’s hope Bridges is around in 2023 then
        
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        August 22, 2020 3:20pm
  - RJ
    
    Bit late James Carroll would hold that title
    
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    August 22, 2020 4:58pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Winston Peters in 2123.
    
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    August 22, 2020 5:43pm
wimpston peeeders

a bit ironic that parker is saying this just days after brushing off the fact the govt broke the law with lockdown.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/122520576/minister-warns-boycotting-farmers-no-one-is-above-the-law

rules for thee but not for me…
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August 22, 2020 8:01am
- Scott
  
  While we are talking about the law –
  You won’t hear about this in the mainstream media but Hone Harawira and his mates are back to their old tricks up North setting up road blockades.
  According to Don Brash –
  ” Brash: Govt should shut down new illegal Maori roadblocks
  Once again, we are seeing appalling examples of Maori tribes taking the law into their own hands, and putting barriers around what they refer to as “their territory”, Hobson’s Pledge spokesman Don Brash said today.
  “In the last week, we’ve seen a resurgence of this nonsense in Northland, in the Eastern Bay of Plenty and in the Ruapehu area,” Dr Brash said.
  “All New Zealanders should be reminded that it is only the lawfully elected Government which has the power to impose barriers to travel on public highways,” he said.
  “In the absence of such Government-determined barriers, such as those around Auckland at present, all other public roads must be free for all New Zealanders to travel on,” he said.
  “What are the political parties which claim to believe in the legal equality of all New Zealanders saying about this clearly illegal activity?” Dr Brash said.”
  Does anyone else find this appalling? Basically there is one rule of law for Hone and his mates and one rule of law for the rest of us!
  Oh for a media that would report on these things?
  And what about an opposition that would vigorously oppose these things in parliament?
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:10am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    look at crime stats, clearly our brown brothers think theyre above the law going by their over representation.
    
    Its appalling that police let them do this and even more appalling our PM endorses it.
    
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    August 22, 2020 8:18am
  - igm
    
    Are they being led by Coster the Imposter?
    He maybe extending his te reo vocabulary.
    
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    August 22, 2020 8:28am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Poor Don Brash, accused of ‘racism’ when he stands up for equal rights for all New Zealanders.
    
    This is our world now:
    
    Tax is Love.
    Equal Rights are Racist.
    Wishing is Achieving.
    House Arrest is Healthy.
    
    What else have we been learning?
    
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    August 22, 2020 8:30am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      “The only source of truth is the truth we tell you.”
      
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      August 22, 2020 8:59am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        There is only one source of truth, and it is the body of facts. The facts are independent of anyone, including the government and the various ministries.
        
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        August 22, 2020 10:45am
      - IC5000
        
        > There is only one source of truth, and it is the body of facts. The facts are independent of anyone, including the government and the various ministries.
        
        The cognitive dissonance must be immense every time you listen to Trump.
        
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        August 22, 2020 12:19pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Our Eternal God Emperor Augustus Caesar Trump Esquire’s pronouncements invariably align with the body of facts. I’m certain that a learned lady or gentleman such as yourself recognises and appreciates that, analytically, alignment implies distinction and independence, not identity.
        
        Naturally, if identical, facts and any pronouncements thereof (that is, the linguistic correlates of the facts), could logically never partake in an alignment relation – they would be indentical. Are you aligned with yourself?
        
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        August 22, 2020 12:45pm
    - softail 1450
      
      classic liberal, An unarmed populace is safe.
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:38am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        [Mod – Deleted. Any repeat of that kind of suggestion will result in a holiday from commenting]
        
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        December 22, 2019 12:51pm
      - IC5000
        
        So Hone and his posse should be armed then?
        
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        August 22, 2020 12:04pm
  - sooty
    
    What say you Mr Coster the chief plod?
    
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    August 22, 2020 8:37am
    - Ruawai
      
      Why does Mr Coster persist in calling Auckland Tamaki mokaura? I didn’t know there had been an official name change and when using it in civil defence type warnings it is very confusing. I asked all my family members if they knew where it was and none did.
      
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      August 22, 2020 2:34pm
  - David George
    
    The fake, feeble and foolish leftists masquerading as liberals (in the correct meaning of the word), having lost all contact with the roots, are busy sawing off the branches that support liberalism itself.
    How else to explain the capitulation to illegal road blocks or the anti free speech Little is itching to implement. The liberal project is dead; what rough beast is coming to take it’s place.
    
    Turning and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.
    
    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
    TS Elliot
    
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    August 22, 2020 8:41am
    - David George
      
      Sorry, of course that’s WB Yeats poem; The Second Coming.
      
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      August 22, 2020 8:57am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      “The Second Coming” is a poem by William Butler Yeats
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:01am
    - JeffW
      
      W. B. Yeats?
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:18am
    - Prince
      
      Eliot wrote ‘The Waste Land’, a vision of New Zealand in 2020, and ‘The Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock’, which contained the immortal line…
      
      “I have measured out my life with coffee spoons”
      
      A prediction of life in New Zealand under lockdown.
      
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      August 22, 2020 10:33am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        I prefer Eliot’s later set of four poems, ‘Four Quartets’ one of which is ‘Little Gidding’ a sample of which appears hereunder.
        
        If Cindy is “Love” (aka Kindness) then the “intolerable shirt of flame” represents the lockdowns and subsequent expansion of State powers:
        
        Who then devised the torment? Love.
        Love is the unfamiliar Name
        Behind the hands that wove
        The intolerable shirt of flame
        Which human power cannot remove.
        We only live, only suspire
        Consumed by either fire or fire.
        
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        August 22, 2020 11:16am
    - SB2
      
      The Lberal Project replaced with exactly what ?
      
      This?
      
      https://www.salon.com/2019/04/13/the-plot-against-america-inside-the-christian-right-plan-to-remodel-the-nation/
      
      Or simply Donald Trump?
      
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      August 22, 2020 11:02am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        By Paul Rosenberg.
        
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        August 22, 2020 12:16pm
    - Fletch
      
      Joni Mitchell did a musical version, and even added another verse… ?
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPbBVJfuzws
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1j0j4r_gnw (original album version)
      
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      August 22, 2020 11:11am
    - Justitia
      
      @ David George: “Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold: mere anarchy is loosed upon the world”. And why is that? In New Zealand’s case it is because Ardern and the Labour Party do not see New Zealand as a proud country with its own history and traditions but merely as an administrative unit within the global commons occupied by groups identified by their race or gender who must be favoured with special treatment depending on the degree of “oppression” they have suffered over the ages. Their worldview is a combination of woke identity politics and effete environmentalism. The economy can go hang – hence the ban on oil and gas exploration on our vast continental shelf, the willingness to see heavy industries like the smelter, steel mill and refinery disappear and the crushing of agriculture in pursuit of two minutes of fame on the UN stage. They will leave this country in ruins.
      
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      August 22, 2020 11:14am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    The problem, this weak incompetent Government has, is that it cant do anything without the support of Maori.
    
    Hence they are powerless do do anything about it.
    
    The maori separatist movement knows this and are using it to push their agenda.
    
    If they could the check points at their borders would be permanent.
    
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    August 22, 2020 8:57am
    - MT_Tinman
      
      If they could the check points at their borders would be permanent.
      
      If those checkpoints kept out my money I’d happily see them made permanent.
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:50am
    - Nickc2
      
      If they could, their road blocks would be toll gates.
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:57am
      - Happychappy
        
        Well have a look at Grant Robertson photo here and ask yourself does he know more than he is letting on as 70 post workers go into isolation after two of their fellow workers had test positive for COVID-19, and the news is also one in five businesses will go under with further lockdowns.
        https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/coronavirus-one-in-five-auckland-businesses-say-they-won-t-survive-another-lockdown.html
        
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        August 22, 2020 11:46am
      - Nickc2
        
        @Happychappy 11:46AM
        He doesn’t look too perturbed to be honest. As a matter of fact, I would go as far as to say, he doesn’t appear to give a flying fuck.
        
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        August 22, 2020 12:49pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Scott – last evening on newstalkzb Heather du Plessis Allan closely questioned a Maori gent from Northland about these roadblocks.
    She did her job – and I guess you can include her as someone within the mainstream media.
    The guy had all the justifications and “we are special” reasons for blocking public roads and wasn’t deflected despite Ms D P A’s efforts. But she tried to hold him to account.
    He said what the iwi and associates were doing was connected with the Treaty of Waitangi and the “constitution”.
    Over the past three years, I have seen many examples of biased reporting and far too much personal opinion appearing in “news” reports. The CoL has bought many aspects of the msm in order to pursue their own agendas and the deification of the Prime Minister by journalists has been just plain sickening.
    But it’s not all of them.
    Credit where it’s due.
    
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    August 22, 2020 9:06am
    - David George
      
      The (level four) road blocks were all about power by radical ethno nationalists; was there any reasonable expectation that a rabid covid carrier was going to burst into grannies house and infect the old dear.
      Unlawfully disrupt and intimidate the public going about their business and Jacinda simply capitulates.
      Does anyone seriously believe it’s going to end there.
      
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      August 22, 2020 10:57am
      - SB2
        
        David George , absolute nonsense ! And its getting worse
        
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        August 22, 2020 11:07am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Can’t we just build a 50 foot steel-reinforced concrete wall somewhere around Warkworth and just call it quits? If they want sovereignty, then we can just cut them off. That’s equity.
      
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      August 22, 2020 11:50am
  - Nickc2
    
    Come on Judith, you can make a lot of political capital over this labour sanctioned law braking. Whilst you are at it, might as well throw our woke police commissioner under the bus as well.
    
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    August 22, 2020 9:38am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    By definition, when one racial group is treated differently to others by officialdom, it is an apartheid state.
    
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    August 22, 2020 10:05am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Don’t worry dear leader will solve this problem.
  
  Still to come
  
  The big freeze
  
  Interest rates
  Wages
  Rents
  Prices
  Exchange rates
  
  Then increased rights
  
  Minimum wage increased to a mystical living wage
  NO need to pay debt
  NO evictions for non payment of rent
  Unlimited sick leave
  
  To the point it won’t be economic to produce and sell at a profit.
  
  Problem solved.
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:49am
  - igm
    
    Just as her communist politburo recommends . . . anyone with something must be removed of everything.
    If re-elected we are fucked.
    
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    August 22, 2020 9:56am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What about those Maori guys who put up road blocks? Or the others, who took over Ihumatao?
  Where is the rule of law in NZ?
  Does the AG think he make its personally or does he leave that to Ardern R.
  Why have elections under MMP when the media are bribed with $50M?
  
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  August 22, 2020 12:07pm
krazykiwi

More infections, but fewer deaths. From TheTelegraph:

Deaths from Covid-19 are continuing to fall and hospitals are “relatively empty”, even though the number of people testing positive for coronavirus is rising, new analysis shows.

Despite growing concern that rising cases will lead to a new wave of the virus, requiring further local lockdowns, the recent increase in numbers has not translated into hospitalisations and fatalities, even when allowing for the time lag between infections and death.

Analysis by the University of Leeds and the University of Oxford shows that, if there had been a correlation between the recent rise in cases (see graphic below for the numbers across Britain) and deaths, fatalities should have risen to around 35 per day by now.

Instead, deaths are hovering at around five with the numbers declining all the time, suggesting Britain may soon experience its first day with no deaths at all.

This will be Farr’s law continuing to work as it has done for millennia, and long before Farr postulated it. Of course, New Zealand with it’s isolationist ‘hey-look-at-us’ policy will have lower population immunity, but this evidence is still good.
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August 22, 2020 8:01am
- PhilBest
  
  “Confirmed infections”, of course involves that a few months ago most people were being missed, because of disorganization and also asymptomatic spread leading to large numbers of people not even bothering to get tested. Now, we have something like a military-industrial complex, only in medicine trying to get numbers up.
  
  Also, there is always a certain proportion of “false positive” tests – if the rate is even only 1%, that means if you are doing ten times as much testing now, you are going to have a lot more “positives”. If the numbers of true infections are actually low, you will be overstating the data by a larger factor.
  
  For example, 10,000 tests means 100 false positives. If there are 1000 true positives, this means the data is 10% overstated. But if there are 10 true positives…..?
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:10am
  - PhilBest
    
    As I said about “trying to boost the numbers”, the same complex driven by political motivations from progressive leftism is also prepared to boost death numbers. By not giving them Hydroxychloroquine; by dumping infected people into Rest Homes (New York and Britain), and possibly inappropriate ventilator treatment.
    
    Nice “centre right” people who want to repudiate all this as “conspiracy theory” stuff from raving right-wing extremists, actually need to wake up to it that they are “the good men doing nothing” and allowing evil to triumph. Again and again.
    
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    August 22, 2020 8:13am
    - Durden
      
      NZ did not report even a single false positive during our 102 covid free days claimed as an achievement by Jacinda.
      
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      August 22, 2020 1:39pm
    - Jimmy White
      
      Its all about Statistics and damn Statistics.
      Andrew Cuomo in New York only recorded the deaths in Nursing Homes if the patients died in the nursing home. So, as soon as the residents caught Covid they were shipped of to Hospital.
      They were the only State to do this therefore NY had one of the lowest rates of all states.
      When Trump insisted they report correctly their Nursing Home death rate went through the roof.
      
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      August 22, 2020 7:30pm
  - SB2
    
    Phil Best , the very latest from Herd Immunity? Especially with Sweden at 15%
    
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    August 22, 2020 11:09am
    - PhilBest
      
      Yes. They’ve reached herd immunity. You seen a recent graph of their curve?
      
      Medical science knows why, too. It is just that the crooked alarmist establishment doesn’t want you to know. T-cells deal with covid-19 in around 40% of people, without antibodies even being developed. This is actually how the human immune system works. It is the reason the common cold coronavirus has never been deadly enough to cause hysteria.
      
      This hysteria assumed that the human immune system wasn’t going to work as designed. Now that it has been proven to have worked as designed, the establishment is trying to maintain a lie – ask yourself why?
      
      Once around 60% of the population has either developed antibodies, or their T cells dealt with the infection, you have herd immunity. Mathematicians like Dr Karl Friston were saying months ago that the shape of Sweden’s curve, even with low antibodies, had to mean “something else is going on”.
      
      Meanwhile there is no evidence at all that lockdowns have made the crucial difference anywhere. You say Norway; I say Britain. “Second waves” are “because of lockdowns” which cannot be perpetuated forever. Britain seems to have converged on herd immunity even with a lockdown; I say this is because of factors like crowding in their housing, which is a disgrace.
      
      Countries whose lockdowns actually interrupted the process of converging on herd immunity (which Britain’s didn’t), have to end up converging again unless they keep locked down “until a vaccine is developed”. Good luck with that. Meanwhile lockdowns themselves kill people, now and in the future. People who don’t see now, that Sweden WILL be ahead overall by 2023, are the same people who just don’t get reality on everything; economics, incentives, socialism, social breakdown, crime, etc. In other words, “progressives” and touchy-feely leftists like Jacinda and her worshippers.
      
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      August 22, 2020 2:43pm
  - Overworked
    
    Phil, there are false negatives too, thought to be more common in practice than false positives. So understatement of case numbers minus overstatement still most likely leaves a nett predominance of false negatives.
    
    https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-health-advice-general-public/assessment-and-testing-covid-19/covid-19-test-results-and-their-accuracy
    
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    August 22, 2020 12:23pm
    - PhilBest
      
      What matters is how many real positives there are. If there is a lot, they balance each other out. If there are only a few, and a lot of tests, the false positives far outweigh the other.
      
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      August 22, 2020 2:32pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Yes, false positives are less common. One of the sources of these is residual virus RNA left after the body has, as in the vast majority of cases, successfully fought off the virus. Apparently our bodies deal with these ‘leftovers’ at differing rates, meaning two people similarly infected, on the same day, with the same immune response patterns, and same ‘recovery’ date could test differently: One body, slow at flushing the viral RNA would show a Covid-19 +ve, while the other would show as Covid-19 -ve.
      
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      August 22, 2020 2:37pm
      - PhilBest
        
        Yes, but are you talking there about antibodies tests, or tests for viruses having been killed by T cells? The latter test is expensive and rarely done; only for purposes of understanding the pandemic better. I don’t think any government is going to roll it out indiscriminately.
        
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        August 22, 2020 2:45pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        These are the now standard RT-PCR tests. I’m not familiar with the T-cell tests, but they are almost certainly better given T-cells stick around indefinitely.
        
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        August 22, 2020 9:31pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Still looking for patient zero here in NZ.
  
  Had to have come from overseas through our borders and quarantine system.
  
  So why are we being directed to look everywhere but?
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:10am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Or it could have come from a residual reservoir of infection that had been quietly moving through the community for 102 days without anyone reporting severe symptoms.
    
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    August 22, 2020 8:18am
    - PhilBest
      
      That is true, but if you understand aerosols (and the way the orthodoxy denies their role) you will understand why this virus gets out and about even while people are keeping their distance and sanitizing.
      
      It is almost as if the powers that, want spread perpetuated, the people kept ignorant and hysterical, and their totalitarian “solutions” to be the only ones. NZ is especially bad for keeping people ignorant about asymptomatic or mild infection. There has been a tsunami of good news since the initial hysteria broke out but it hasn’t got through to a distressingly large number of people.
      
      I was posting the information about asymptomatic infection on this site by 3/4 of the way through March. The early random antibodies testing done by real “health systems” – even in China – proved this early on.
      
      Has NZ done one single antibodies test yet? In August? Meanwhile the real health systems around the world have done T-cell testing and determined that this is around double the importance of antibodies! Has Saint Ashley even publicly admitted asymptomatic is real?
      
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      August 22, 2020 8:30am
      - SB2
        
        “It is almost as if the powers that, want spread perpetuated, the people kept ignorant and hysterical, and their totalitarian “solutions” to be the only ones. ”
        
        Utter rot!
        
        Get with the real science behind covid,
        
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018760655/virologist-dr-chris-smith-latest-covid-19-science
        
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        August 22, 2020 11:11am
      - PhilBest
        
        “Get with the science”; yeah right, like your side can win that debate without your allies in media and tech censoring it. You’re evil, end of story.
        
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        August 22, 2020 2:46pm
      - Jimmy White
        
        But you can catch if from a lift Button.
        
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        August 22, 2020 7:32pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Anything is possible but the RNA analasis suggests not.
      
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      August 22, 2020 8:43am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Correct, but it still had to come across the border, at some stage.
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:02am
    - bruceavon
      
      No. The genome testing says no and Shane Reti said the other week, it was not possible for it to remain undetected for 100 days. Hundreds would have to have been infected without anyone ever presenting to a doctor with symptoms. Of the 100 in this outbreak 5 ended up in hospital. The maths doesn’t work.
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:22am
      - tf78
        
        bruceavon, I have a feeling that the only tests that were done prior to begining of August were in the isolation units, none for the general public. If you don’t test of course you can go 102 days without cases. Then of course just before the election as I predicted we have more new cases – how convenient.
        
        Let us have hydroxychloroquine as a treatment if we need it, forget about a vaccine for now.
        
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        August 22, 2020 10:13am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        The genome testing says the recent Auckland outbreak is of UK or Australian origin…and as far as I am aware folks have been coming into NZ from those countries all year.
        
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        August 22, 2020 10:35am
      - bruceavon
        
        Maggy. The genome sequencing shows the strain from the current outbreak is unrelated to the previous outbreaks so I can’t have come from the virus from 100 days ago. The virus mutates every two weeks so they can tell it is a new one probably related to recent strains from Australia. I just don’t think the idea the virus has been there all along works. Too many would have been infected.
        
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        August 22, 2020 10:53am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        The genome sequencing shows the strain from the current outbreak is unrelated to the previous outbreaks so I can’t have come from the virus from 100 days ago.
        
        We did have the B.1.1.1. strain here in April.
        Our Experts have not yet ruled out the possibility that the virus has been hanging about.
        
        It indicates the current cluster comes from the so-called B.1.1.1 lineage, most frequently documented in the UK but more recently found in Europe, Australia and South Africa. This lineage has been seen once before in New Zealand, in a pair of cases in mid-April who were in managed isolation in Auckland.
        
        This points to two possible scenarios. Either the second wave is due to a recent border incursion from a country where this viral lineage has been transmitted. Or, alternatively, it is the result of ongoing transmission in New Zealand starting from the pair identified in April.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/122532630/coronavirus-genome-sequencing-tells-us-the-auckland-outbreak-is-a-single-cluster–except-for-one-covid19-case
        
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        August 22, 2020 2:27pm
      - DeepBlue
        
        9 people in hospital today, with 3 in intensive care. At almost 10% hospitalisation from this south Auckland community this is the ongoing risk and cost. It is not the super oldies that die a few months early with COVID.
        
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        August 22, 2020 3:03pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Highly likely.
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:27am
    - softail 1450
      
      M W ,the virus may have been waiting quietly in the abundant fairy dust we have around this country,it’s an incredibly powerful dust as its turned 65% of NZrs into Ardern worshiping morons that have no thought for their country’s future.
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:45am
    - JackRabbit
      
      You’ve hit the nail on the head Maggy.
      
      I’m aware of cases, as are many people I’ve spoken to, of that new nasty and as yet unnamed flu, that has all the Covid-19 symptoms.
      
      Covid-19 was in the country last year, coming in from places like the US, Iran, and Europe. One of the cases I know about was from Iran in mid December. Another from the US just after Christmas.
      
      The more you ask, the more people will share they know of friends or relatives that returned from overseas with a very nasty flu. Which in retrospect it was appropriate to call it a flu, because it comes from the genus class of Corona Viruses, which comes from the genus class of flus.
      
      The first “official” Covid-19 case was “identified” in late February, from someone coming in from Iran.
      
      https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/single-case-covid-19-confirmed-new-zealand
      
      But in reality, it had already been here for at least two months or more. Those who had it before either had no symptoms, mild symptoms, or suffered with it and got over it.
      
      Grant Robertson did not agree to borrow 19Bn in December to spend in 2021-2014 to leave a pot of gold to an incoming National/Act government. He borrowed, because as part of Five Eyes, our government knew about the new virus as early as November.
      
      So it was here 60-80 days before being detected. So it stands up to a simple logic test, that the bulk of the infections are asymptomatic or mild symptoms. If it can hide for 60-80 days without detection while spreading unimpeded it could easily circulate undetected for 102 days.
      
      There is no way Cindy’s elimination program got rid of every last infection. All it would have taken is one case to keep spreading, and I’m sure there were heaps of asymptomatic cases.
      
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      August 22, 2020 11:17am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Yep,
        
        according to Dr Chris Smith.. up to two-thirds of those infected with the virus have NO symptoms but could be infectious.
        
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/saturday/audio/2018760655/virologist-dr-chris-smith-latest-covid-19-science
        (From 4:38…)
        
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        August 22, 2020 12:34pm
      - wimpston peeeders
        
        An earlier arrival would explain the spike in elderly deaths in february.
        
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        August 22, 2020 2:29pm
      - PhilBest
        
        This discussion is very good, there are people on here who are reading the right stuff. “Flu like illnesses” were a bit up in January and February in NZ, perhaps by around 100 recorded examples; add in the likely asymptomatic, and people who didn’t even go to the doctor, and it is quite likely we had 1000 infected and recovered even before we started testing. Also: we don’t have a single recorded case “that came from China”. Come ON; around 40,000 arrivals per month from China and it didn’t come to NZ? It went to Bergamo, and it went to Iran, but not here, somehow?
        
        Actually it didn’t break out seriously anywhere, initially, that had a climate at the time like summer in NZ. People are so obsessed with claiming politician A who they adore, did a good job, and politician B, especially Orange Man, Bad, that they won’t see the self-evident under their noses.
        
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        August 22, 2020 2:53pm
      - DeepBlue
        
        I would like to see those people tested for antibodies or T cells or whatever to back up this hypothesis.
        
        Now there are 100,000’s people getting tested, who have some kind of lurgy, but it isn’t COVID.
        
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        August 22, 2020 3:07pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @DeepBlue
        
        “But it isn’t COVID”. True. It would only show positive if it was a current infection, barring false positives. Anti-body testing would show previous infections.
        
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        August 22, 2020 3:44pm
  - PhilBest
    
    Because the sham narrative about how good quarantine arrangements were, what a good idea it was in the first place, and how good the expert advice is on this pandemic, needs to be sustained.
    
    The same reason it got out of quarantine is the same reason it gets into Rest Homes even with a lockdown and the economy being destroyed. People locked inside together with inadequate ventilation, are a petri-dish environment for “aerosols”. The “experts” failure to understand and emphasize this, needs to go down in medical history.
    
    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/07/why-arent-we-talking-more-about-airborne-transmission/614737/
    
    Also a medical “expert” own-goal, is not letting people outside. FFS. Fresh air and sunshine is one of the best things for health and immunity, and for stopping infection and spread. In 1918 they spent as much time outside as possible, and they weren’t “lacking the sophisticated expert advice of 2020”. The advice of 2020 reeks of bad faith, and possibly is an experiment to see how easily the masses can be sucked in. Sickeningly, the pigshit ignorant masses will be nodding approvingly as the Police, paramilitary goons for the progressive Left, drag intelligent and honest people off to jail just for “being outside”. Are the Plods really this thick and unquestioning themselves? If so, the force has obviously been vetting out recruits who show signs of intelligence, for a long time now.
    
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    August 22, 2020 8:23am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Are you talking about the “virus boxes” called “public transport.”
      
      And yes Police have been screening out people who do not have a predisposition to what you would call a “power trip”
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:07am
      - Paulus
        
        The Plods can find out where and who you are with the Hop Cards you purchase.
        
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        August 22, 2020 11:22am
    - SB2
      
      Reminds me of the advice for treating TB . Plenty of fresh air and sunshine etc
      
      “Sickeningly, the pigshit ignorant masses will be nodding approvingly as the Police, paramilitary goons for the progressive Left..”
      
      So effectively combating covid is a rabid right ideological one ?
      
      Wow!
      
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      August 22, 2020 11:23am
      - PhilBest
        
        And your point is…..? You support the sham confining of the population indoors, and the slope-browed goonery enforcement of it everywhere? You suppose police forces are made up of Ayn Randist libertarians….? Or even Churchillian classical liberals? Because what we are talking about, is the stuff of the “left”. Even if you suppose “fascism” to be the right-wing opposite of communism – which it isn’t.
        
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        August 22, 2020 3:00pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      “People locked inside together with inadequate ventilation, are a petri-dish environment for “aerosols”. ”
      
      In the old days before a proper cure for TB was found, the answer for TB was not to lock you up at home or in hospital, because that was recognised as a death sentence. The solution was to send you to a sanatorium located in fresh mountain air, away from cities.
      
      Country air, is rich in both positive and negative small ions, a minimum of 2000 ions per cc. Air in cities is far lower, and in modern buildings and homes can drop to a dozen per cc and completely devoid of small negative ions.
      
      Well documented research has proven that viruses cannot survive in small air ion rich atmospheres.
      
      Atmospheres depleted of small air ions, or where the negative ions are small in number to positive, inhibits the uptake of oxygen in the lungs. Atmospheres rich in small air ions, especially small negative ions, enhance and increase oxygen absorption even in lowered oxygen environments.
      
      In addition, Corona Viruses have a net electrical charge. Stopping the Corona virus requires negating that charge.
      
      I differentiate between general negative ionisers that you can buy online, and ionisers that produce small air ions. Cheap ionisers mostly produce large ions, which may have a cleaning effect on the air, but produce no biological benefits.
      
      Sharp has a thing called plasma cluster.
      https://global.sharp/pci/en/
      
      Any in event, locking people up in their homes and denying them the fresh outdoors, increases the spread, not decreases it.
      
      If Cindy had her way we would all be like this:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubble_Boy_(film)
      
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      August 22, 2020 11:35am
      - Overworked
        
        The point about TB sanatoria was that, although patients were exposed to fresh air regularly, they were also quarantined well away from the rest of the population, excluding nursing and medical staff.
        
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        August 22, 2020 12:28pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @Overworked
        
        No, the point was not that they were quarantined. The point was they got rest, and fresh air packed with small air ions, not that they knew much about small air ions back then.
        
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        August 22, 2020 3:50pm
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    when all eyes are on the right hand making its move the left hand is free to do as it wishes.
    
    no doubt the govt is up to something dodgy, they know from genome testing its come through the border.
    they likely wont want to know as it likely happened 2mnths ago and they dont want the public to realise the extent of it.
    somewhere in nz itll be brooding… so deadly they dont even know theyre sick untill tested.
    
    my pick is qtown or chch to be the next centre of an outbreak.
    
    23 3
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    August 22, 2020 8:24am
    - sooty
      
      The way kiwis have been travelling before lockdown it maybe anywhere!
      
      8 1
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      August 22, 2020 9:28am
      - tf78
        
        No deaths yet I noticed.
        
        As for the suicide numbers that have been released I doubt very much they are accurate. We heard from a friend who is an undertaker that coroners aren’t treating/calling them as suicides deaths.
        
        Just more lies from the department of truth.
        
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        August 22, 2020 10:18am
    - PhilBest
      
      If it remains centred on Auckland, where the quarantine facilities are, that helps prove that is where it came from. “Where else in the country it gets to” depends on who took an infection with them from Auckland and went to somewhere spread is maximized; indoors, poor ventilation, and being vocal.
      
      This is self-evident. There was almost no spread of infection of any significance in our first outbreak, without infected people from overseas going to an indoors event with lack of fresh air, and lots of loud talking for a prolonged time, while they were infectious. If this virus doesn’t get from Auckland to other places this time, it will be a matter of luck that infected persons didn’t go to the wrong place and event while they were infectious.
      
      But there is a higher chance now than during summer, because the indoors places are more closed off to fresh air now. This explains everything about “what parts of the world get hit hard and when”.
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:36am
      - PhilBest
        
        That’s 4 heads exploded so far with presentation of logical analysis of evidence.
        
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        August 22, 2020 3:02pm
    - Nickc2
      
      If they are, it will be suppressed until after the election.
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:52am
    - michael mckee
      
      Wimpston
      Nooooooooooooooooo!
      I’m in both next month!
      
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      August 22, 2020 11:46am
  - cmm
    
    They will not find “patient zero” with the current approach.
    
    Why would people go and be tested to risk being taken away from their family and locked up for 2 weeks? Nope, many will rather tough it out at home.
    
    Anyway, what does “patient zero” really matter? The sieve is porpus and is letting through hundreds of potential “patient zeroes” every day.
    
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    August 22, 2020 8:51am
    - Ruawai
      
      They need to retest all people that have left isolation over the last 4 weeks.
      
      8 1
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      August 22, 2020 9:09am
      - tf78
        
        We need to just start living with the Newflu, provide treatments that are available overseas, stay home if you’re unwell or afraid to go out. Our lives must go on.
        
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        August 22, 2020 10:20am
    - sooty
      
      You would only go for testing if you were wanting free food for two weeks!
      Once you are in line and given name and address, you’re stuffed!
      They just turn up and say hop on the bus! Germany all over again!
      
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      August 22, 2020 9:32am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Grant Robertson today reinforcing the idea that the Govn ie Labour MIQ border control is very good… 1 breach in 40,000, which was restricted to 2 people. They don’t want their system to appear leaky,with the second big cluster, as they made it a COVID election.
    
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    August 22, 2020 2:59pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  our govt has broken farrs law, the retards still cant see that its inevitable and nature will take its course.
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:15am
PhilBest

What is it going to take, to wake up nice “centre right” politicians and supporters, about how evil everyone on the progressive left is?

The Hydroxychloroquine scandal is just the latest example:

https://www.palmerfoundation.com.au/doctors-pen-open-letter-to-fauci-regarding-the-use-of-hydroxychloroquine-for-treating-covid-19/
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August 22, 2020 8:02am
- PhilBest
  
  Sky News Australia is like a little Gaulish Village still holding out against the progressive invaders in the big media
  
  https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6181491564001
  
  Note the bit about Switzerland actually using Hydroxychloroquine and far fewer people dying, because of it
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:04am
  - tf78
    
    I saw a great meme of Bill Gates holding up a sign saying “Hydroxychloroquine will f..k up my Multi-Billion dollars vaccines investment.” That’s about the size of it.
    
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    August 22, 2020 10:25am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  They don’t want an effective solution. Hydroxychloroquine is to covid-19 what nuclear energy is to climate change: at least a partial solution, but because the covid-19 and climate crisis scares respectively are mere pretexts for expanding the reach of governments, they aren’t interested.
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:53am
  - PhilBest
    
    Hey, that is an excellent analogy, thanks for that!
    
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    August 22, 2020 9:37am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Phil and The Proper Ghandi, yes there is the hand of inept govts in this saga, but behind all of this is the malign hand of “Big Pharma”. Formost ofthe past 20 years the pharmaceutical industry have been press the WHO andgovts to invest in more facilities to test for and develop vaccines for the next big pandemic.
    
    Does anyone remember the farce of 2009/10 and Swine Flu? You may recall the rush to develop vaccines and the resultant problems with children & side effects.
    
    The world needs to get control of the pharmaceutical industry, which is bigger and more powerful than most governments.
    
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    August 22, 2020 9:38am
  - Northshoredoc
    
    FFS – what errant nonsense.
    
    This is than same type of BS we hear about Vitamin C being a cure all for cancer. it makes the assumption that all medical professionals are either complicit in a cover up or dupes.
    
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    August 22, 2020 10:44am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      That argument relies on the Fallacy of Composition: one or two particular cases having merit does not necessarily entail that all “alternative” treatments or measures as a whole are meritorious. Not all alternatives are sound, but that doesn’t rule them all out.Vitamin C doesn’t cure cancer; but that doesn’t mean Hydroxychloroquine is ineffectual in treating covid, nor that nuclear power is ineffectual in reducing CO2 emissions.
      
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      August 22, 2020 11:25am
      - Northshoredoc
        
        What makes HCQ ineffective in treating Covid 19 infection is the comparative efficacy data that shows it is pretty useless in treating Covid 19.
        
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        August 22, 2020 12:27pm
    - PhilBest
      
      Read the arguments about Hydroxychloroquine. Every “study” that purportedly “proves” it to not work, has obviously set out to use it a different way to that advanced by those who have used it effectively. These so-called studies are done by evil people, end of story. Use Hydroxychloroquine too late when people will be dead tomorrow anyway. Use it without the other supplements. Worst, use it in toxic doses and then claim it is dangerous. What about the millions of people using it every year already?
      
      We have been in an era for a long time now, where people either just subscribe to the same cause as evil forces because the underlying pretexts appeal to them; or if they are good men doing nothing, it is because their own goodness prevents them from perceiving that others could even be doing such evil. These good people need to wake up. The Hydroxychloroquine story alone needs to be something that does wake up a whole new cohort of people, like past episodes of modern history have woken some people up. Sept 11, 2001, or rather the progressive Left reaction to it, woke some people up, even on the Left. They call themselves “Sept 12 2001 conservatives”. We need “Hydroxychloroquine conservatives”. I hope the 2020 Presidential election is a wipe-out for the Democrats, hitching themselves as they are to such obvious falsehoods and absurdities on everything. “White supremacism is subscribed to by more than 100 million Americans”, trannies in womens sports and changing rooms, BLM are peaceful protesters, “believe all women but Tara Reade is lying” etc etc etc. Stay inside because Covid but protesting “white supremacy” is an imperative that trumps that. BAH. Some countries are just sad lost causes, they don’t have a substantial cohort of voters who WILL repudiate this obvious poisonous ooze.
      
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      August 22, 2020 3:18pm
  - The Housekeeper
    
    Nice analogy TPG
    
    4 3
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    August 22, 2020 11:28am
  - michael mckee
    
    For 5 Days and Zinc and an antibiotic = NYC Dr Zelenki’s Cocktail.
    
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    August 22, 2020 11:48am
- SB2
  
  PhilBest, the thorough research states otherwise ( Oxford trials)
  
  Coronavirus: Malaria drug hydroxychloroquine ‘does not save lives’
  
  By James Gallagher
  
  “A malaria drug that has been tested as a treatment for coronavirus does not save lives, one of the world’s largest trials shows.
  
  Hydroxychloroquine received global attention after being promoted by Donald Trump, and then controversy after studies on it were retracted.
  
  The drug has now been pulled from the UK’s Recovery trial, which is run by the University of Oxford …”
  
  https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52937153
  
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  August 22, 2020 11:35am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Meaningless article. Doesn’t differentiate between vulnerable/normal, early/late.
    
    It’s best use is in vulnerable patients, early (outpatients).
    
    Once in hospital it’s too late.
    
    In non-vulnerable it makes little difference because they recover anyway.
    
    This all seems too complicated for the media to understand.
    
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    August 22, 2020 12:55pm
    - PhilBest
      
      It’s not too complicated for CROOKED progressive “doctors” to understand. We need prosecutions on the basis of Hyppocratic oaths being breached. But I guess these crooks can rely on cover from their allies in the legal profession and so called “watchdog” bureaucracies.
      
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      August 22, 2020 3:21pm
The Proper Ghandi

Another disgusting example showing us the logical conclusion of liberal ideology. The perversions and degeneracy now being promoted and normalised are the best rallying call and recruiting tool true right wingers (i.e. conservatives) could wish for. It is heartening that half a million dislikes have been logged.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0O7lLe4SmA
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August 22, 2020 8:05am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Four perverts and counting …
  
  8 6
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  August 22, 2020 8:54am
- Inandout
  
  TPG, hasn’t Obama/s got influence at Netflix?
  
  9 3
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  August 22, 2020 8:54am
- SB2
  
  ” true right wingers (i.e. conservatives) ”
  
  Trumpeters included?
  
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  August 22, 2020 11:36am
- SB2
  
  The Proper Ghandi, naturally you’ve watcbed the movie?
  
  Yes?
  
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  August 22, 2020 11:40am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    No, I’m not a pedo. In fact I’ve never watcbed anything on Netflix. [Deleted by Mod. Freedom of expression is a key part of western values. Move to Saudi if you want to maintain pure conservatism.]
    
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    August 22, 2020 12:23pm
- bc
  
  From what I have read about this, it seems the issue is with how Netflix has promoted the movie. Netflix has been criticised for sexualising the characters in its advertising. In its home country (France) the movie was promoted more as a “girl power” type story.
  The movie was well received when it screened at Sundance.
  I can’t say either way, I haven’t seen the movie and it’s not really a film I am interested in watching. But then, I’m not the one going on about “perversions and degeneracy”. Maybe see the film before making such sensational claims?
  
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  August 22, 2020 1:33pm
Lee C

I noted the term ‘Covid-denier’ used yesterday somewhere.

Great – so now wanting to inject some sanity into a debate is likened to endorsing the gassing of whole populations under a totalitarian dictatorship.

How ironic.
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August 22, 2020 8:07am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Im not a covid denier, I simply believe we should have let it run its course and protected those most at risk.
  
  Not imprisoned the entire population.
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:14am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    To isolate sick people is quarantine.
    To isolate well people is tyranny
    
    65 6
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    August 22, 2020 8:22am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      to comply and follow those orders is idiocy
      
      19 5
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      August 22, 2020 8:25am
      - sooty
        
        Marching off to the Gulag, singing Ten Guitars!
        
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        August 22, 2020 9:35am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Fuck it: I’m now a “Covid-denier denier.”
  
  28 5
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  August 22, 2020 8:14am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  One step away from labelling folks as “Merchants of Death”
  
  While the supporters of Plan B call it “learning to live with the virus”, I think it’s more accurate to describe it as “learning to die with the virus”.
  
  https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/18-08-2020/siouxsie-wiles-plan-a-or-b-learning-to-live-with-covid-19/
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:30am
  - Exclamation Mark
    
    You could power Tiwai Point with the heat generated by that woman’s lust for attention.
    
    34 2
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    August 22, 2020 8:58am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Is that to say that this whole lock down elimination exercise was a complete man made economic disaster costing billions and achieving very little.
    
    In the words of scribble ” not much if any”
    
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    August 22, 2020 9:18am
    - tf78
      
      Mr_Blobby, now most countries are totally broke they have no money for defense forces are now ready for the picking.
      
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      August 22, 2020 10:28am
      - Mr_Blobby
        
        We don’t have an effective defense force and are ripe for the picking.
        
        China can come in any time they like.
        
        What would deter them is a million man civilian army. Hence the need to disarm the civilian population. Switzerland has the right idea on this.
        
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        August 22, 2020 11:22am
      - michael mckee
        
        Well done China!
        
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        August 22, 2020 11:49am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I am not going to read it because I know what she will be saying. And she is annoying.
    
    Plan A will only work if there is a vaccine that brings the pandemic under control globally in the next 6 to 12 months. If that does not happen there needs to be a Plan B. What am I missing here? Yet I have never heard anyone in the government admit this.
    
    There are no doubt Plans C D E and F I guess. So for the person with pink hair to just say “there is no alternative. You will never see your family in Australia again” is absurd.
    
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    August 22, 2020 9:38am
  - Durden
    
    She is full of herself. What does she think people in Brazil, USA, India, Middle East and a whole lot of other countries in the world are doing already ?
    
    Well she is not special. She has to prepare/learn to die.
    
    She is afraid, because she has one or two of the co-morbidities that this Corona Virus likes 🙂
    
    Speaking at recent PlanB seminar in Wellington was Oxford University’s Dr Sunetra Gupta. She was the one who called out Imperial college modelling from Sux’s alma mater and current information source, as utter tosh. Same model used by chubby Hendy–the i-want-trains-not-air travel campaigner and another co-morbid virus fodder.
    
    Dr Gupta’s says explicitly what we all can see for ourselves. That each typical virus outbreak has a natural cycle of about 2-3 months as can be seen from the first round of CV-19 infections around the world (think Italy, Iran, US, India) regardless of what actions people took. The debate of Denmark/Norway Vs Sweden is meaningless in terms of the difference in the numbers of people saved relative to the virus’ worldwide harvest. Its obvious that the long-term economic and well being consequences for the majority of the people locked down are comparatively huge (especially poor daily wage earners or casual staff as we call them). Compare this to the zero impact on no-skin-in-the game floozies.
    
    Dr Gupta Says, in the longer term then the impact of all viruses seen so far naturally attenuates due to growth in immunity (antibodies, t-cell response, broader base-immunity), and virus’ own mutations which make the virus weaker until in 2-3 years. It will happen with this new virus, like it did with all the previous ones, until it becomes an endemic background virus.
    
    See this specific video https://youtu.be/ByZbGkPr2kI on the page https://www.covidplanb.co.nz/videos/
    
    Everything else being touted as “our actions saving the world” is nothing more than hubris and vain self promotion.
    
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    August 22, 2020 10:11am
    - MCos
      
      Dr Sunetra Gupta argues that we should just give up and let nature take its course.
      This isn’t going to happen in NZ. We all know what the current administration is doing, which is the opposite approach. If the Nats head the next government they are promising more of the same only more stringent.
      
      The world seems to have an inexhaustible supply of epidemiologists. I don’t know why Sunetra Gupta should get such attention other than she’s a contrarian.
      
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      August 22, 2020 11:26am
      - Durden
        
        Simply labeling her contrarian is a lazy argument. Imperial college “experts” predicted high percentage of deaths. The same thing their model has been doing for various previous epidemics varying from SARS to mad cow disease.
        
        Dr Gupta did not throw out any such ridiculous figures. When everybody was meekly accepting the Imperial view, she called them out on it with science. Not because she is a “contrarian”
        
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        August 22, 2020 1:26pm
      - PhilBest
        
        I do not believe that “contrarians” are even in a minority. This issue (and some others we could name) has been allowed to be hijacked by a small number of official experts who just happened to be chosen some time in the last few years, for a desk job in a bureaucracy. It has become only more obvious as the months have gone on, that they are willfully wrong about everything. The process by which politicians decide who to believe, and the process by which experts are selected to be the “officials” in the first place, are probably related processes.
        
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        August 22, 2020 3:28pm
- Nickc2
  
  Same people, same aim. The eFn UN.
  
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  August 22, 2020 10:14am
Happychappy

Is this the start to a tsunami of morgagee sales with people obviously having trouble finding the money for their mortgages.
More than 240.000 morgage paymentshave been missed since April worth $2.3 billion,with thousands of home owners falling behind on morgage payments while other would be buyers are rushing to get finance. This is in addition to more than 83,000 morgage differential requests lodged since the end of march 2020, 13% of all mortgages.
https://www.odt.co.nz/business/thousands-default-mortgage-payments-others-rush-get-home-finance
It won’t be long now before people start losing their homes and then we will see a change in Jacinda mania.
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August 22, 2020 8:11am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  After the election comrade after the election.
  
  It won’t matter then as we will have the numbers to continue with the grand national socialist transformation.
  
  All hail dear leader.
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:17am
- Ruawai
  
  Don’t forget the silent ‘t’.
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:43am
- Gravelroad
  
  Happychappy:
  “It won’t be long now before people start losing their homes and then we will see a change in Jacinda mania.”
  No, don’t think so.
  Jacindamania is a brand.
  The Labour Party and msm will do whatever they have to to protect that brand – if only to ensure that Ms Ardern eventually takes her rightful place at the UN.
  I see people here afflicted with Jacindamania.
  Their “go to” comment when things start looking a bit dicey include: “Poor Jacinda, it’s not her fault”.
  “she’s doing her best and the others are trying to bring her down.” “The Nat Party, banks, rich people are responsible for the economy failing us.”
  If you compare this with President Trump’s brand, everything he does and says, what he looks like, how he speaks – it’s all bad and anyone who says otherwise is vilified.
  With Jacindamania – everything she says and does is all good and anyone who says otherwise is vilified.
  
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  August 22, 2020 11:03am
  - Nickc2
    
    Was your research carried out by interviewing Kindy Mums and University Students? If so, yes those would be the findings without a doubt.
    However, if your research was carried out back in the real world, you know, the one where people work for a living, pay their taxes and obey the law, in order that they may survive and Shane Jones’ nephs can live in a manner to which they have fast become accustomed, the findings would be vastly different.
    IMHO, if we had an honest and professional media, we wouldn’t be in the shit we currently find ourselves in and we most certainly wouldn’t be beholding to St. Cindy and her corrupt braindead mob of Buffoons.
    
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    August 22, 2020 12:40pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      I just live an ordinary provincial life Nickc2 where there are a lot of kindy mums and students who vote.
      They may not closely follow policy, economics or current events – but they love Jacinda no matter what and will vote for her no matter what.
      They think the National Party sucks and has nothing to offer them, while Jacinda is one of their own.
      
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      August 22, 2020 2:53pm
      - Nickc2
        
        In Hobbit Town no doubt.
        
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        August 22, 2020 8:15pm
Tomtoddy

I simply do not believe the “official” suicide numbers. I have no evidence, just a gut feel. Something amiss here.
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August 22, 2020 8:31am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  its june-june stats, theres likely been an increase in the last 2months and govt will know this but spin spin spin we wont know untill august next year.
  
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  August 22, 2020 9:24am
- Observer of Life
  
  TomT: Agree. But the figures they gave (TV1 News? last night) stopped at age 24 years. No mention of 25+ citizens. We know of a guy who recently took his life and he was 39. I think that’s why it looked good for their “Contrary to rumour.. suicides aren’t up” story. I’d like to have been told of suicides in all groups to 100+. Would be more accurate and I believe will prove suicides ARE in fact up. Massaging the figures to make the gummint look good. Disappointing.
  
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  August 22, 2020 9:34am
  - fernglas
    
    Here you go. Saves you looking it up yourself.
    https://coronialservices.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/2020-Annual-Provisional-Suicide-Statistics.pdf
    
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    August 22, 2020 10:14am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      how are they claiming success when the top line on that link shows an increase since they came to power?
      
      we had far less suicides prior to the current labour govt but david parker told duncan garner theres been a drop because cindy is a kind pm wtf? more spin and lies theres literally been the largest increases of suicides in the last 12yrs all under this govt
      
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      August 22, 2020 2:38pm
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    So the biggest group is the 25 to 29 bracket.
    
    Lets not report that.
    
    And the long term trend is still up.
    
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    August 22, 2020 11:29am
- fernglas
  
  Come back when you have some evidence. Gut feels are for US presidents and conspiracy theorists.
  
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  August 22, 2020 9:41am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    We are in the age of ‘alternative facts’, remember?
    
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    August 22, 2020 10:22am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Disagree. I 2008 I was of the general, if uninformed opinion that Global Warming was a human caused catastrophe in the making. Over late 2008 and into 2009 I had a ‘gut feeling’ that the presented facts were incomplete, but the alarmist narrative was nevertheless based on these facts. The ‘gut feel’ made me get out and research, research and study the whole evidence.
    
    On this subject, the suicide stats only including up to 24yr olds is a huge, blaring klaxon. This is cherry-picking strategy so often used to ‘prove’ something where the full evidence may well not support that narrative.
    
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    August 22, 2020 11:21am
    - fernglas
      
      If you look at the link I have posted above, which is to the actual report, rather than relying on a TV news report, you will see that all age groups are covered. Jeez, I have trouble understanding why people on this blog are so dismissive of the MSM but seem content to rely on it as an impeccable source of primary facts. If this whole debate was informed by evidence, rather than media, social, mainstream or alternative, it would be a lot more rigorous.
      
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      August 22, 2020 11:45am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Thanks for the link. I hadn’t seen it when I posted.
        
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        August 22, 2020 3:13pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Well, as your ‘gut feeling’ was wrong about climate change, there is no reason to think it might be any more accurate about anything else.
      
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      August 22, 2020 12:13pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        “Was wrong” … with zero evidence. A drive by assertion with zero substance. D minus. Try again.
        
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        August 22, 2020 9:26pm
- Prince
  
  Me Too. At the risk of being labelled an unbeliever, spreader of untruth etc, I have a deep suspicion the Government has worked hard to redefine ‘suicide’, same as they removed all the Health outcome stats.
  
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  August 22, 2020 10:40am
  - lifesgood
    
    Generally the under 24 year olds do not have families to support, businesses going bust, mortgages to pay. I want to know the stats for people over 24 and up to 60.
    
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    August 22, 2020 11:54am
    - fernglas
      
      Link is above. 10:14 am
      
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      August 22, 2020 3:28pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Hubby had to wait for over a year before he received the Coroner’s report on his mother’s death.
  He had to hassle the Coroner’s Office on a number of occasions as well (excuse being offered was that the Coroner’s Office had not yet received the pathologist’s report).
  
  I very much doubt that all of the Coronial decisions on deaths between March 2020- June 2020 are showing up in these latest Stats.
  
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  August 22, 2020 3:18pm
  - fernglas
    
    I think that’s why they are provisional statistics, as the delay is now so significant that relying on coronial findings would put you 3 years behind.
    
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    August 22, 2020 3:29pm
Happychappy

Obviously Labour have begun losing support before the upcoming Elections or why would Labours Sir Brian Roche be making statements like this. He said he felt New Zealanders may have lost a sense of perspective on how well the Country had responded to Covid 19 over the last few months.
” We are the envy of the world”. ” We seem to want to beat ourselves up for every infringement, and as a Citizen I find that surprising ” Brian Roche told Newstalk ZB’s Mike Hosking.
https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/sir-brian-roche-on-nzs-covid-response-we-are-the-envy-of-the-world/
So here we have another Labour person charged with finding a solution for the Lockdown fuckups fawning over Labours and Jacinda’s comedy of errors and incompetence with a message we all make mistakes. Typical Labour ethos hypocritical of others but we are all human when it comes to them.
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August 22, 2020 8:33am
- Prince
  
  Just earning his paycheck.
  
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  August 22, 2020 10:40am
  - Paulus
    
    Roche is an Accountant, so can be expected from he who pays the Piper.
    
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    August 22, 2020 11:26am
Maggy Wassilieff

An alternative way to manage Covid-19….

Broadcast late on Friday night

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/lately/audio/2018760627/professor-des-gorman-new-zealand-s-covid-management
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August 22, 2020 8:36am
- sooty
  
  When all the sheeple are tucked up in their beds fast asleep, on a station few listern to!
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:43am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    If few listen to it why do we all pay for it? I have said it before but it is worth repeating. RNZ is perfect for a subscriber model. The majority don’t listen. Others listen but would not care too much if it went. But apparantly there is a sizeable cohort who love it to bits. So those people can pay.
    
    This is an example of such an obviously optimum solution that is resisted by the left. And all politicians, including National have allowed themselves to be brow beaten.
    
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    August 22, 2020 9:43am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Probably because all those who “love it” quite like forcing us to pay for their preferences.
      
      For our own good.
      
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      August 22, 2020 10:15am
    - Lummox
      
      If few listen to it why do we all pay for it?
      
      Good question. And I think the same applies for Creative NZ or NZ on Air. Public money handed out for other people’s fun.
      
      I once looked into how to fund a music video. The criteria for receiving funding were ridiculously low. To show that you were a professional or serious music act, you had to show that you had performed at least twice with an audience over twenty. Or something like that.
      And then you got a few thousand dollars to play with, having fun making a pop video.
      Creativity is great. But why do I have to pay for it?
      
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      August 22, 2020 10:46am
- Ruawai
  
  Very logical and fact based. Good analogy to a car company and who is ultimately responsible, the CEO. I would like to see the directive the health minister sent to MoH specifically asking them to test all border staff rather than just a press release that this was happening.
  
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  August 22, 2020 9:06am
- Classic Liberal
  
  He was pretty interesting. Worth listening.
  
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  August 22, 2020 9:10am
kowtow

Interesting.

“Student representatives are worried proposed caps on the number of Maori and Pasifika admissions to the University of Otago Medical School could have negative implications for decades.
Such changes, potentially affecting the way students are chosen for their second year of study, could undermine efforts to boost the number of medical professionals who come from traditionally under-represented groups, they fear.”

One wonders how many medical professionals are from white working class backgrounds, but of course it’s not really about genuine under representation or equality, it’s about boosting other numbers. Being a cynic I’d guess the uni is scared that fewer Asian overseas big fee paying students could be excluded so the uni is protecting it’s bottom line rather than being a “mirror of society” .

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/campus/university-of-otago/concerns-over-proposed-med-school-quotas
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August 22, 2020 8:36am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  The same race-based quotas apply for other restricted admission courses. When I did my LLB, the Maori students who got in on their own merits did well, whereas the ones who got in via “alternative admission” struggled. It doesn’t really help anyone, except making some white liberal administrator feel good about themselves.
  
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  August 22, 2020 9:12am
- Durden
  
  India has had a quota system for yonks. For years and years, politicians have increased reserved quotas in some states to well over 50% to shore up their user base. As a result the bright kids from the so-called “advanced castes”, but economically backwards, have had to study more and perform significantly better to get admission with the dwindling number of seats offered in the general quota. Suicides among young people who did not make it despite their efforts are common.
  
  “There were about 30 suicides reported in Kota last year.”
  https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blogs/a-fresh-perspective/the-unseen-cost-of-reservation-policy/
  
  It now seems that the people studying under reserved seats are also suffering once they are in the universities.
  https://www.india.com/education/jnu-student-suicide-is-reservation-creating-a-larger-divide-in-the-education-system-1934156/
  
  PM Modi is now suggesting a modification/rolling back of the quota system. And the debate is on. There are huge lessons NZ can learn and thereby not repeat some of the mistakes.
  
  https://theprint.in/opinion/both-upper-caste-and-quota-creamy-layer-cite-merit-but-their-goals-are-different/470092/
  
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  August 22, 2020 10:28am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  This is not a cap, it is a preferential admission programme. Basically Maori and Pacifika students can get in with slightly lower marks, reflecting that such students are concentrated in lower decile schools or come from educationally disadvantaged families. It also ensures the workforce has some level of correlation to the wider community. Not an exact mirror, but at least a level of recognition that this matters.
  
  I helped establish such a system with the Business School at Auckland University nearly 35 years ago, and the effect has been a much larger number of Maori and Pacifika B Com graduates than otherwise would have been the case. Over 35 years, literally thousands more. The programme is one of the reasons why you see way more Maori and Pacifika business leaders than a few decades ago.
  
  I should note the preference is the admission into the programme, not a preference in passing the degree. In that regard, the same standards apply for everyone who sits the exams.
  
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  August 22, 2020 11:25am
  - lifesgood
    
    Do white people from low decile schools and disadvantaged families get the same preference. If not, why not?
    
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    August 22, 2020 11:51am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Grief No… They’re the Deplorables!
      
      (and, to be honest… they don’t know how to hold their knife and fork correctly, they dine early, they don’t drink fine wine, and they don’t understand dress codes).
      
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      August 22, 2020 3:34pm
  - Jack5
    
    But what help is given to poor white people in admission to these programmes, especially to their boys?
    
    White boys are the disadvantaged class in education in Britain, and probably in New Zealand, too.
    
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/30/race-row-leading-private-schools-turn-donors-1m-offer-help-poor/
    
    AND
    
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/disadvantaged-white-boys-damian-hinds-education-universities-a8572866.html
    
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    August 22, 2020 12:16pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The lower pre-admission grade is also a reflection of lower academic ability. The average Polynesian has an IQ 1 st deviation below the Pakeha mean.
    There will be some potentially high achievers among the Maori community so the candidates will come from select families too.
    
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    August 22, 2020 12:18pm
  - David George
    
    Seriously Wayne, can’t you see the glaring fault in such a program; discrimination on the basis of the arbitrary.
    Why not support the kids from disadvantaged backgrounds without reference to race, shouldn’t be too difficult to administer.
    I would celebrate that you’re no longer in politics but for the fact the current lot are even less sane.
    
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    August 22, 2020 1:08pm
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Well, you may celebrate that, but fortunately there are a good number of Nat MP’s who would share my general views. There is zero chance of the preference schemes being abolished, irrespective of who is the government.
      
      And of course I introduced the Maori and Pacific Admission Scheme (I was the prime mover within the Faculty) a full ten years before I became an MP.
      
      And no, I don’t buy your argument about the merits of such a scheme. I think it t is a legitimate educational and social goal that the work force, especially the professions, has some general reflection of society. Without these schemes there would be relatively few Maori or Pacific doctors, engineers, lawyers and commerce graduates. Probably less than 3 % of the professions, instead of the 7 to 10% that is currently the case.
      
      As you will obviously know, such schemes have virally universal support within the university sector, and they are the ones who decide.
      
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      August 22, 2020 2:32pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I think it t is a legitimate educational and social goal that the work force, especially the professions, has some general reflection of society.
        
        I’ve never met anyone in the scientific or medical professions who had parents who were blue-collar workers or labourers.
        
        There has been middle-class and upper class capture of educational $$$$ in NZ for decades..
        
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        August 22, 2020 2:57pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Just been confirmed as illegal in the US. I guess plenty of people with higher marks got pissed off with being locked out because of their *race*.
        
        https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/doj-finds-yale-s-affirmative-action-22353/
        
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        August 22, 2020 3:27pm
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    On thinking about this further, what they want is no cap on the preference admission scheme.
    In a hypothetical example, if Otago Medical School has 200 places, and the qualified preference students total 200, then this would be the total intake. No-one else, no matter how good their grades, would get in.
    To my mind, not an appropriate change to the preference admission scheme.
    
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    August 22, 2020 1:16pm
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Maggie,
      You obviously haven’t met enough, because I have met quite a few. It may not be the norm, but it is hardly unknown.
      
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      August 22, 2020 6:56pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Well, that’s encouraging..
        
        I do hope you are referring to folks younger than me.
        
        I must admit I’m one of the lucky cohort that got a v. good-excellent education at 2 State schools (& 2 and a bit years at NZ Friends) and tax-payer-funded degrees.
        
        It’s not so easy now for lower working class kids to attend University for a 7-year degree, especially if they have Auckland rents to pay.
        
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        August 22, 2020 7:23pm
  - Durden
    
    Wayne,
    
    You dissemble. Again.
    
    No scientific evidence for “It also ensures the workforce has some level of correlation to the wider community. Not an exact mirror, but at least a level of recognition that this matters”. Its a general belief, but is myth created by self interested communities who want special treatment and create a two-tier system.
    
    Otago university had 60% under reservations of one sort or the other and 40% in the general category. And then there is the question of the definition of who is Maori or Pacifica. All of this stuffs up, capable kids’ lives , often Asian and European immigrant kids who miss out on the categories regardless of how good they are or how much discrimination their families may face.
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300013258/medical-school-who-gets-in-and-why
    
    “For this year’s intake, Otago had 202 places available for first year students entering from its intermediate year. (Otago does not take first year students from other universities).
    
    Of those, 120 were given to those entering under a raft of categories.
    
    Of those, 58 were Māori, 20 were Pasifika, 1 Māori/Pasifika and 29 entered through the rural gate. Eleven students went in under the low socio-economic category and one under a new refugee category. That left only 82 general entry places (40 per cent).”
    
    And I call bullshit on your statement, in terms of your theory versus practice:
    “I should note the preference is the admission into the programme, not a preference in passing the degree. In that regard, the same standards apply for everyone who sits the exams.”
    
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    August 22, 2020 1:21pm
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      You would be totally wrong in your last statement. I know from experience in this area, there is one standard in passing exams. Preference students might get additional tutorial support through the year, but at the end of the year they have to pass the exams.
      
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      August 22, 2020 1:41pm
      - Durden
        
        Passing involves exams and practicals evaluated subjectively. Woe betide a professor who keeps a “special” student back. Especially after they had been given more “special” handholding at the expense of other students. This is a case of merit being thrust on some people while crushing the dreams of the truly meritorious.
        
        You have obviously not read the India links I posted above that show the perverse effects of setting off on such a path.
        
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        August 22, 2020 3:09pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    reflecting that such students are concentrated in lower decile schools or come from educationally disadvantaged families.
    
    Why do we put up with this crap?
    
    Why should lower decile schools deliver crap education?
    Why are the best teachers concentrated in high decile schools?
    
    Q. How was it that I could gain a 1st Class Hons and a PhD in the Sciences though I grew up in a dysfunctional family in an impoverished suburb?
    
    A. Because back in the 1950-60s good teachers were evenly spread through the primary system and because I side-stepped W(h)anganui’s Intermediate school System….so when it came time to go to High School, I wasn’t viewed as a poor dummy from Castlecliff with a Dunny-cleaner daddy, but as a kid from a private school….
    and I was streamed into the Top 3rd-form Class (the only girl from Castlecliff in that class).
    
    Why had none of girls I went to Castlecliff primary school made it into the top class of WHS?
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/122474432/mori-high-school-students-unfairly-streamed-in-lowability-classes-report-finds
    
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    August 22, 2020 1:23pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Wayne, you should be ashamed of yourself. Did it ever cross your mind that you were denying people who obviously had a higher IQ from participating in an occupation of their choice? No, it was all about appeasing Maori and Pacific Islanders who’s vote you relied on.
    We should have been aiming at producing Brain Surgeons and Scientists and may say it, politicians who were worth the money we paid them.
    Clearly, your scheme didn’t work, look at the imposters we currently have masquerading as politicians and pill pushers.
    
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    August 22, 2020 1:24pm
  - Cassandra
    
    The problem with this sort of race-based system is that it does not discriminate between the truly disadvantaged and those not. My Maori grandchildren had every advantage of a stable, middle class upbringing and have thrived. My European grandchildren not so much, yet Wayne’s system would give the Maori pair an advantage over the others! It does not make sense.
    
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    August 22, 2020 1:34pm
I remember when

Dr Doug Edmeads explained to Jamie MacKay on The Country why Govts N Fertilser cap ignores basic science.
He said Govts cap on N fertiiliser at 190 kgs, per hectare, per year is dommed to failure.
When animals urinate, it applies N at rate of 500 to 1000 kg N/ha.
This results in excess soluble N in a localised soil area, which is subject to leeching into waterways.
Animal urine patch is the source of 95% of N entering waterways.
Key to control of N leeching is restricting number and frequency of urine patches, especially in autumn/early winter.
There are three sources of N:
Clover which is “Fixed N” which feeds the soil.
The other two are N fertiliser and supplementary feeds.
If N fertiliser is capped farmers will increase clover or use more supplementary feed to maintain production.
The result is the same amount of soluble N is produced.
Input controls restrict growth, development and progressive evolution of society.
More precisely the choice is between progress and extreme environmentalism.
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August 22, 2020 8:39am
- Saks
  
  Um, you will need to convert that to a crayon drawing if you want anyone in the current government to understand…
  
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  August 22, 2020 9:28am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  to be fair 190kgN is quite high and most dairy farms will struggle to reach that and if they do then theyre severly over stocked.
  
  cropping and horticulture will be hardest hit as they use far more fert then dairy.
  
  190kg of N = Just over 400kgha of urea. ive worked on many dairy farms throughout the SI and only in canterbury have I seen that much used in a year. the cropping farms ive worked on have all been 6-800kgha a year 🙁 yet dairy gets the bad rap and blame.
  
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  August 22, 2020 9:30am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Last year I ended up at a social function with a green party activist. Don’t ask.
  
  Anyway she outlined for me her plan. It was end all animal farming in New Zealand. No meat production. Simply outlaw it. End dairy farming. Allow deers, sheep and alpaca for wool and velvet. Bees for honey. End all commercial fishing in New Zealand waters. Allow hunting of deers and rabbit etc with aim of eradication. She planned to switch the population to being vegan.
  
  Yes she was totally serious. I found someone else to drink with before we moved on to energy policy ? I have nothing against vegans. But to be honest Taiwanese don’t really understand. In fact I have never met a person from my home country who is vegetarian.
  
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  August 22, 2020 9:52am
  - Steve Todd
    
    I have nothing against vegans. But to be honest Taiwanese don’t really understand. In fact I have never met a person from my home country who is vegetarian.
    
    And yet, there are several million of them. According to Wikipedia (Vegetarianism by Country), 14% of Taiwanese people are vegetarians – significantly more than New Zealand – being approximately 3.3 million people (2017).
    
    And—
    
    There are more than 6,000 vegetarian eating establishments in Taiwan. The country’s food labelling laws for vegetarian food are the world’s strictest, because around 2 million Taiwanese people eat vegetarian food. A popular movement of “one day vegetarian every week” has been advocated on a national level, and on a local level, even government bodies are involved, such as the Taipei City Board of Education.
    
    And what about this interesting article? (See Note No. 56 of the Wikipedia article.): https://ketagalanmedia.com/2016/06/20/the-new-vegan-movement-in-taiwan/.
    
    Benedict, you are simply full of it.
    
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    August 22, 2020 2:04pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Perhaps Benedict doesn’t mix in strict Buddhist circles.
      
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      August 22, 2020 2:11pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Well, Maggy, then he should stop making such emphatic, sweeping, statements, usually starting with “I have never met a Taiwanese” this, or a Taiwanese that, that he doesn’t think he will be challenged on. It is a fault he is very prone to.
        
        Besides, the article I linked to, states: “Taiwan boasts one of the largest population [sic] of vegans and vegetarians in the world (14% by most polls), due in part [my bolding] to its Buddhist population.” That implies many non-Buddhist Taiwanese are vegan/vegetarians, too (even if only one day a week).
        
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        August 22, 2020 2:33pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        lol ‘one day a week’. You’re either vegetarian or not. Like pregnancy.
        
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        August 22, 2020 3:41pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        ” It is a fault he is very prone to.”
        And you’ll call him out on it won’t you Karen
        
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        August 22, 2020 8:13pm
Inandout

We have hypocrites in NZ like this.
https://trends.gab.com/trend-feed/5f3fb7404dec887547a35899
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August 22, 2020 9:09am
Kiwi Investor

“Election 2020: Winston Peters’ mecurial ideals leave voters ‘flying blind'” Stuff article.
In my mind Peters’ has made it very clear he will not go with National. He said this on Hoskins this week, something along the lines the other lot (being National) are worse than Labour and therefore why would he go into Government with them when given the choice, a double back hander?
I cannot see where the confusion is, it is as plain as day, he does not like National and has ruled them out.
Only articles like this foster the continuation of the confusion when there is really none.
A vote for Winston is a vote for the continuation of the current Government.
Is this the BREXIT team at work?
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August 22, 2020 9:16am
- Nickc2
  
  An interesting piece on Peters protecting his electioneering goons on TV1 last night. They were involved in a fracas with another group who were peacefully protesting. The plods were called and they duly arrived in-mass but surprise surprise, no arrests. Discretion perhaps? Most probably, but no discretion exercised to protect dying bees. Go figure.
  
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  August 22, 2020 10:37am
MJHNZ

Interesting thread on Twitter about Cindy now wearing an ear piece for the 1pm party broadcast as she’s too stupid to answer questions herself. Who thinks H2 is providing the answers??

https://twitter.com/mrsrosieb/status/1296693116745859072?s=21
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August 22, 2020 9:40am
- Hollyfield
  
  I noticed in yesterday’s briefing that she was asked a question, she put her head to the side, frowned more than usual, then delayed a noticable number of seconds before answering. Listening to an earpiece would explain that long delay.
  
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  August 22, 2020 10:07am
  - Jimmy White
    
    looks like we have our own Biden.
    
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    August 22, 2020 7:46pm
- RJ
  
  Well hell, if it is on twitter then it must be true….
  
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  August 22, 2020 10:28am
- Maggie Pie
  
  LOL!! Thats not an ‘earpiece’, ya silly!
  It’s the latest up-cycled designer earrings from Ronja Schipper’s ‘Felt’ store.
  I’ve already got a pair on the way to me as we speak.
  
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  August 22, 2020 11:15am
- Nickc2
  
  Perhaps that’s not an ear-piece. Perhaps it’s a string from the puppet master’s hand piece to part(s) of Cindy’s anatomy that need to move in a certain manner to make lies look like truth. I do agree however it has to be H2 who’s pulling the strings.
  
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  August 22, 2020 2:13pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  new zealands own joe biden.
  the ear piece is to stop the embarassing um ah ah um well Followed by 2mins of waffle.
  
  what else in common with old joe?
  No real policy just hollow slogans
  Appears for glory and hides from anything bad
  Life long trougher never had a real job
  nothing between the ears
  
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  August 22, 2020 2:47pm
Overworked

Over 100 days to prepare their “Resurgence Plan” and still this happens:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/rural/2020/08/coronavirus-frustration-mounts-for-farmers-unable-to-cross-auckland-border.html

Where’s the Minister for Animal Welfare? Why aren’t applications to cross the roadblocks being triaged? Why don’t they throw more people at it – it’s not that difficult to go through applications and sort into related groups, for instance. These things are so simple, yet they can’t allocate enough resources or plan an appropriate approach.

Instead they whine about having 4000 applications or whatever – that’s not all that many to go through and pick out those with urgent human or animal welfare requirements.

If I hear Megan Woods whine one more time: “You’ve got to understand [insert name of reporter], that we’re dealing with a VIRUS here” I’ll cry at the mindset that won’t rationally attack a problem because it’s all too hard.

FFS Meg, the common cold is a VIRUS, a coronavirus too no less, and we are all sufficiently familiar with that to not be spooked by sars-cov-2 which, in terms of transmission, behaves in a very similar way.
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August 22, 2020 9:43am
Dave Mann

Just an update that there’s going to be a Liberty March down Queen Street from Aotea Square in Auckland at 12pm today. They will be protesting against the policy of lockdowns.

Facebook is the only place I’ve seen this mentioned and as I try to stay clear of FB I’ve only just found out about it.

Has anybody got any information or thoughts? I wonder if our tame media will cover it?
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August 22, 2020 9:49am
- bruceavon
  
  I was in the city with my kids and we happened to pass Aotea Square when it was on. A woman was going up to people trying to engage with them but they kept moving away from her. I couldn’t understand what her sign said. My son finally said they were anti the lockdown. If my kids weren’t there I would have tried to see what they were about, but my kids weren’t keen.
  There weren’t that many people there to be frank.
  I never heard of it, so they probably need to organise better, I am sure there are more sympathetic people than were there. Not sure having the press there would have helped their cause. Slightly underwhelming.
  
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  August 22, 2020 1:52pm
  - Dave Mann
    
    @ Bruce: I went to the march (my first protest since the Vietnam war hahaha), and I would agree with you that it wasn’t exactly jam packed and I think they could have publicised it a lot better.
    
    The main speaker (sorry, didn’t catch his name) spoke very well, though, and he and the other speakers all made good points and the crowd’s enthusiasm was pretty high.
    
    Aotea Square was, I would estimate, about half full and although there were plenty of media there I don’t think much has so far been shown or reported on except for this:
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12358696
    
    In this report, the Herald says ‘up to 150 people’ marched and I think this is a blatant underestimation of the size of the crowd, frankly. Have a look at the Herald’s own video on the link and just from a few seconds of the clip you can see that there were WAY MORE than 150 people.
    
    I would estimate the crowd number at maybe 500-600 people. OK I’m not an expert, but it’s possible that either the Herald made a typo in their report, or they are deliberately trying to minimise and belittle the event.
    
    It would be interesting to see if the march organisers themselves put out a press statement.
    
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    August 22, 2020 5:31pm
    - Dave Mann
      
      Update: Here’s a link to some footage on Youtube
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGRM8VwzB0Y
      
      Do you think THIS looks like only ‘up to 150 people’?
      
      Also, the Facebook page says that ‘440 people went’. This must mean that 440 people have reported on Facebook that they were there….. so the actual number must be well in excess of that as not everybody would have logged onto FB to say they went.
      
      I stand by my estimate of 500-600. Still quite a small crowd, admittedly, but I’m just trying to point up the blatant inaccuracy/lies/bias in the Herald’s reporting.
      
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      August 22, 2020 7:11pm
Maggie Pie

Currently trending on twitter…..

When it was originally reported to the Police as possible ‘hate speech’, they took NO ACTION, on the basis it was condidered…..’FREE speech’.
Ask yourself?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ef6-k1qVAAACt8B?format=png&name=900×900
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August 22, 2020 9:56am
Tasman Terror

The new Police Commissioner is not a poster child for competence but a Coster child for wokeness. NB: He is directly appointed by Mrs Cliche. When I grew up the Police were there to prevent and investigate crime now they encourage crime and front reality tv shows.
27 1
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August 22, 2020 9:58am
WaynelSexton

I get Auckland is having a massive wave of Covid deaths, but did it really need to lockdown and destroy every business in town?
17 2
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August 22, 2020 10:05am
- tf78
  
  Wynel – no deaths so far this round. Someone in intensive care I believe, but no idea how old they are.
  
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  August 22, 2020 11:09am
- lifesgood
  
  Massive? You jest, surely. A tiny handful in a population of 1.25million. The lock down is nothing short of disgraceful.
  
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  August 22, 2020 11:48am
  - WaynelSexton
    
    The bodies must be pilling up in the street. Why else would you destroy every service industry job in Auckland?
    
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    August 22, 2020 12:21pm
Happychappy

Can we rule out the media being part of those that are funding those between 16 and 18 years old in their quest to the high court to get the vote on the grounds of discrimination or is it those that want a government that comes down hard on Climate change and knows this group will help in their quest for power.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/nz-election-2020-16-year-olds-fight-for-the-right-to-vote-reaches-high-court.html
Do you really think that it is just the children themselves or their parents funding this to go to the high court or is there alternative theories.
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August 22, 2020 10:20am
mikenmildagain

Wellington’s star cat in the running to be New Zealander of the year.
An online Newshub poll has Mittens trailing Ashley Bloomfield for popularity.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/08/new-zealander-of-the-year-nominee-celebrity-cat-mittens-makes-global-headlines.html
Though this is just a poll, you can make this happen by adding your nomination at:
https://nzawards.org.nz/
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August 22, 2020 10:36am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Here is an idea Mike. Make Mittens the Mayor of Wellington, he would do a great job.
  Talkeetna, Alaska has a cat for Mayor. Her name is Denali. Got the job after Mr Stubbs passed
  
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  August 22, 2020 11:12am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    How about you put forward your pet for the North Shore Ward next local body election?
    
    4 0
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    August 22, 2020 12:27pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Don’t have a pet. How about a rotten fence post? The socialists commies would vote for it and it would do a better job
      
      11 4
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      August 22, 2020 1:48pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Let’s hope Coronovirus doesn’t hang around on our parcels for ages….

NZ Post has stood down all staff members who worked the same shift at its Auckland parcel processing centre which has seen two positive Covid-19 cases.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12358680
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August 22, 2020 10:55am
- tf78
  
  NO POSTAL VOTING THEN! Yippee.
  
  12 1
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  August 22, 2020 11:14am
  - SB2
    
    There is no evidence that covid can survive on postal aricles?
    
    2 8
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    August 22, 2020 3:03pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Didn’t you listen to Chris Smith this morning?
      
      If you had, you’d know the answer.
      
      3 1
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      August 22, 2020 3:55pm
- Happychappy
  
  But Jacinda indicated they had under control earlier. This could the start of another Melbourne and Jacinda’s political career.
  
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  August 22, 2020 11:35am
- Overworked
  
  Good idea to kick mail into the corner for a week. The best study I’ve seen so far suggests sars-cov-2 can persist for 24h for paper, up to 5d for plastic.
  
  Then open them and shake contents onto floor, biff wrapping into a bag, wash hands etc etc etc
  
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  August 22, 2020 11:42am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Dose though? Actual risk of serious infection?
    
    Look at the Czech article suspecting masks still allowed infection to spread but with such low doses that people were basically getting ‘vaccinated’.
    
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    August 22, 2020 3:58pm
I remember when

Doug Edmeads’ suggestion is that they set the limits for nitrogen in the waterways.
Then they allow farmers freedom of choice in their farming methods as long as that goal is achieved.
So, the goal is to control outputs which encourages inventiveness and farmer entrepreneurship.
3 1
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August 22, 2020 11:02am
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh Goody…
Just another 2 years in Island isolation
Coronavirus pandemic could be over within two years – WHO head
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-53870798
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August 22, 2020 11:09am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Who’s paying the WHO staff for this nonsense?
  
  9 3
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  August 22, 2020 12:10pm
  - SB2
    
    Indirectly you and me etc through taxes / revenue aportioned to pay UN dues
    
    7 1
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    August 22, 2020 3:04pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  nah bill gates said itll be gone by end of 2021.
  all major elections around the world will be complete by then.
  
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  August 22, 2020 2:51pm
Yvette

That there was a court examination of the legality of the initial Lockdown, emphasises a disappointment I have, that no polling company has in any of their polls (far as I know), asked “If you voted New Zealand First last Election, was it in the hope Winston would go wtth Labour or National?”

There were been indications – Winston’s legal actions against National on the eve of the Election, for example – that he never would have gone with National, but I would be interested to know whether Winston’s decision did have any moral legitimacy or not, and it is still something for the consideration of any one thinking voting for him this time around.
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August 22, 2020 11:10am
Fletch

You’d think after his handling of the pandemic in New York (including the rest home debacle which led to thousands dying) that Cuomo would keep his head down, but no. He is writing a book about New York’s response, praising it!!! Un-frigging-believable!

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=321758389184005

That’s what liberals do. Instead of humbling themselves, accepting their mistakes and apologizing they have the audacity to deny the mistake ever happened and paint themselves the hero. That’s what Obama does all the time when mentioning his “scandal-free” administration. The sheer arrogance of these people.
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August 22, 2020 11:24am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Anyone having trouble with Goodyear Tyres pulling hard to the left ….
18 3
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August 22, 2020 11:27am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Must be full of hot air
  
  12 3
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  August 22, 2020 11:30am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    It ain’t easy being black, man!
    
    11 1
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    August 22, 2020 11:40am
Fletch

Joe Biden’s speech. It was prerecorded and everything but he STILL stuffed it up!

Joe Biden (D) experienced another brain freeze moment during the climax of his Democratic National Convention (DNC) address Thursday evening, telling the audience that there has “never been anything we’ve been able to accomplish when we’ve done it together.”

“I believe there’s only one way forward, as United America — a United America,” he said. “United in our pursuit of a more perfect union. United in our dreams of a better future for us and for our children. United in our determination to make the coming years bright.

“Are you ready? I believe we are. This is a great nation. We’re a good and decent people. For Lord’s sake, this is the United States of America,” he said.

“There’s never been anything we’ve been able to accomplish when we’ve done it together,” he then stated.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/08/20/joe-biden-flubs-dnc-speech-climax-theres-never-been-anything-weve-been-able-to-accomplish-when-weve-done-it-together/
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August 22, 2020 11:29am
- KevO'Brien
  
  He’s on part with our PM who has to have her Ipad handy.
  
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  August 22, 2020 12:09pm
  - fernglas
    
    And “on part” with everyone who hasn’t checked their spelling or who has misread an autocue.
    
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    August 22, 2020 12:20pm
  - MCos
    
    Kev, mate, you only had thirteen words to write & everything turned to custard by the third one.
    
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    August 22, 2020 1:06pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  “Person, woman, man, camera, TV”
  
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  August 22, 2020 12:29pm
- virtualmark
  
  Fletch,
  
  Watch Trump’s speech today at the Council for National Policy, and then compare it with Biden’s acceptance speech.
  
  I know the Trump campaign is telling you that Biden is senile. But just watch the two speeches and make up your own mind, rather than just blindly swallowing what a family of known conmen are trying to tell you.
  
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  August 22, 2020 2:00pm
  - SB2
    
    Trump not senile?
    
    1 6
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    August 22, 2020 3:05pm
  - Fletch
    
    You do know that Biden’s entire part in the process was reading it, right? He didn’t write it. He has a whole team of speechwriters for that. Let’s wait and see if he can speak extemporaneously on a subject (which we know he can’t without getting muddled up and losing his train of thought). The debates will be something to see. His team will have drilled him again and again though with responses to questions etc.
    
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    August 22, 2020 3:43pm
- MCos
  
  Even an idiot can read off a teleprompter.
  https://twitter.com/thedailyshow/status/1296935132700581889?s=21
  
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  August 22, 2020 2:44pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Reading is hard.
    
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    August 22, 2020 3:53pm
Fletch

Do you know what is actually in the Biden/Sanders platform? The media don’t mention it, for sure. Mark Levin has printed the whole thing out, and goes through the points.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMda9Qo0FVw (approx 9 mins)

It’s awful, country-destroying stuff. If people only knew what they were voting for. Instead, the media have turned it into a battle of personalities.
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August 22, 2020 11:34am
- Batman
  
  Ahh yes, Mark Levin, that trust source of news and definitely not an angry Fox News lackey.
  
  Alternatively, you could read the actual policies instead of the faux news hot takes designed to get you exercised and afraid…
  
  https://joebiden.com/joes-vision/
  
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  August 22, 2020 12:03pm
  - fernglas
    
    That would be too difficult. It’s much easier to choose others to tell you how to think than to actually look at the evidence.
    
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    August 22, 2020 12:17pm
    - Batman
      
      Especially when those others give you a nice little dopamine rush while you’re sitting at your computer
      
      4 8
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      August 22, 2020 12:18pm
  - Fletch
    
    Um, that’s exactly what Levin is reading from in my linked video – the stuff at your link. Why don’t you try actually reading it?
    
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    August 22, 2020 12:19pm
    - Batman
      
      No he’s not, he’s reading his interpretation of that.
      
      And throwing in scare mongering about the end of ‘suburbia’ (aka white communities) to get you going. It’s barely veiled racism. It’s a dog whistle that’s actually just a whistle.
      
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      August 22, 2020 12:24pm
      - Fletch
        
        Except he is –
        
        https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/biden-and-dems-are-set-to-abolish-the-suburbs/
        
        I think Trump just cancelled out that Obama-era policy though, for now.
        
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        August 22, 2020 12:36pm
- Nickc2
  
  TKS for that Fletch, I was looking for it this morning to post on this blog but I was looking under Mark Levin himself rather than Hannity.
  That aside, its most interesting that the Biden/Harris manifesto aims are pretty much the same as our current CoL’s. As Mark was going through the objectives etc it was interesting to note how many have already been implemented in lil olde NZ and/or are in the pipeline should the CoL be re-elected. Scary huh?
  
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  August 22, 2020 1:41pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yeh, I noticed that. The oil and gas exploration being stopped etc…
    
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    August 22, 2020 3:46pm
I remember when

Ministry of Justice
Charges for 17 year old’s, from 1 July 2019 onwards, are treated ‘as child and young person’ charges, and not included in adult statistics.
How does that fit in with giving 16 and 17 year old’s the vote in a General Election?
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August 22, 2020 11:59am
I remember when

Get your parcels in the post now to ensure they arrive in time for Xmas!
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August 22, 2020 12:03pm
- MCos
  
  Especially if you send them to the USA.
  
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  August 22, 2020 2:42pm
Fisiani

The source of the Auckland border outbreak has already been found but will not be publicly disclosed till after the October election for fear it would cost Labour votes.
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August 22, 2020 12:12pm
- MCos
  
  What is it?
  
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  August 22, 2020 2:39pm
Brian McDonald

The draft dodger said that it was “beautiful” that NZ was having a ‘big’ surge of Covid 19 infections. I guess he doesn’t care about his NZ worshippers that extol his greatness day after day.
Must be a slap in the face chapettes?
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August 22, 2020 12:13pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I think he was trolling Jaspinda for calling him a ‘professional arsehole’ What goes around, comes around, or something
  
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  August 22, 2020 1:55pm
  - Dougal10
    
    He got Brian too.
    
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    August 22, 2020 2:49pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Bah!
      
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      August 22, 2020 3:22pm
Batman

https://www.lawfareblog.com/collusion-reading-diary-what-did-senate-intelligence-committee-find

I haven’t posted about the Senate Intelligence report much but the time has come.

Sorry to hurt feelings but all those on here who have been claiming that Barr is going to expose the “Russia hoax” and that it’s all a lie etc etc, you should line up below and apologise to the KB community for spreading lies and disinformation. I’m looking at the usual Russia denialism suspects, you know who you are ?

As a lawyer on Twitter said: “Awfully odd silence from the RussiaHoax crowd on the factual findings of a report endorsed by people such as Marco Rubio, Tom Cotton, John Cornyn, Ben Sasse, and Jim Risch. Seems like a pretty big deal. Maybe they’re just still busy reading through it?”

Or maybe it’s just that the Senate report undercuts everything Bill Barr has been saying for more than a year?

The truth always comes out, and there’s nothing Trump Inc and Bill Barr can do to prevent it in the long run.

Have a great weekend!
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August 22, 2020 12:16pm
- Fletch
  
  I’m confident that William “no holds” Barr and Durham will get to the bottom of it all. Here’s hoping, anyway.
  
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  August 22, 2020 1:29pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Fletch,
    
    This bi-partisan Senate report, from a Committee led by a Republican, completely undercuts the entire “Russia hoax” narrative and completely undercuts the Trump/Guiliani fever dreams about Biden and the Ukraine.
    
    Gonna be hard for Bill Barr to come up with a plausible October surprise in the face of this report. Doubt it will stop him, but suspect his efforts will just look contrived, fanciful and faked.
    
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    August 22, 2020 1:55pm
    - Fletch
      
      There is so much evidence out there now that proves the Obama Administration abused the organs of the intelligence agencies for their own ends, to spy on Trump and his campaign. It’s irrefutable. And they used a bogus dossier ginned up and paid for by Hillary and the DNC to do it – to fraudulently obtain FISA warrants. An FBI lawyer plead guilty the other day to changing material evidence to say Carter Page wasn’t a CIA asset when they knew damn well he was.
      
      They thought Hillary would win. But when she didn’t they needed to divert attention and so the whole Russia collusion narrative was created. Then the Ukraine stuff. This shit is a bigger abuse than Watergate and everyone knows it. Obama, Biden, Brennan, Comey, Sztrok, Clapper, Rice etc were all in on it. The Flynn stuff even goes to the top – to Obama and Biden. The whole lot of them should be in prison.
      
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      August 22, 2020 3:55pm
      - Vory v zakone
        
        Clinesmith is the first marker.
        #thebestisyettocome ?
        
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        August 23, 2020 1:47am
rouppe

Here is a very interesting infographic that shows that the likelihood of something going wrong at the border must be approaching 100%
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August 22, 2020 12:46pm
- sooty
  
  There has been a merry go round.
  Jacinda Ardern,
  rev david clark,
  Mike Bush,
  Digby Taylor,
  Another air force type,
  Megan Woods,
  Richie Cunningham,
  Ashley Bloomfield.
  Who have I missed.
  All they are going to do is blame the others.
  But it all starts with the rev david clarke.
  Did he set it up to fail?
  
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  August 22, 2020 2:34pm
  - Jimmy White
    
    You missed Uncle Tom Cobbly
    
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    August 22, 2020 7:51pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Wow… another article about Chloe Swarbrick today

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12357894
anyone remember the name of the Labour Candidate for Auckland Central?
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August 22, 2020 12:57pm
- RJ
  
  Jacinda Ardern? Oh no wait she kept losing so went to a safe seat
  
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  August 22, 2020 1:18pm
- Cassandra
  
  Skillful use of the media by Chloe perhaps. Fortunately nobody reads this rubbish. Well, nobody who isn’t already going to vote for Chloe. We all get wound up with how awful the newspapers are but lose sight of the fact that they are rubbish, known to be rubbish, are headed for the scrap heap of history and no longer influence how people,act. They don’t even get used for fish and chips anymore.
  
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  August 22, 2020 1:42pm
Maggie Pie

As you know, I’m never one to be mean to people.
But when this just popped up on Twitter, I immediately thort to myself, “What is that – a bottle opener?” LOL!!!!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ef6KUIBXsAE_ndn?format=jpg&name=small
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August 22, 2020 12:58pm
- RJ
  
  And people thought they would never see who was in the big bird costume
  
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  August 22, 2020 1:17pm
dave_c_

How They’ve Changed The COVID Conversation:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/bait-switch-how-theyve-changed-covid-conversation
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August 22, 2020 1:24pm
Inandout

Go the Donald.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11QyKbn1gBg
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August 22, 2020 1:26pm
dave_c_

No doubt NZ is heading down this path also – Another ‘follow the leader’ example

Here we go- Germany is beginning a universal-basic-income trial with people getting $1,400 a month for 3 years

https://www.investmentwatchblog.com/here-we-go-germany-is-beginning-a-universal-basic-income-trial-with-people-getting-1400-a-month-for-3-years/
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August 22, 2020 1:26pm
- Nickc2
  
  Never fear, the Biden/Harris duo have the same dictate in their manifesto. You can bet they and their mates (those in the Politburo) won’t be on the Universal Basic Income. Neither will Cindy and her corrupt mob.
  
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  August 22, 2020 2:01pm
dave_c_

I found the following, and would like to share :

SCAMDEMIC SCIENCE: Coronavirus “cases” are medically meaningless, yet being used to justify weaponized lockdowns to destroy humanity

Notice how the mainstream media has stopped talking about coronavirus “deaths” and shifted to coronavirus “cases?” That’s because the
term “cases” is a misnomer. Any person who tests positive for the coronavirus is now considered a “case.” So as more testing is being
conducted, more “cases” are emerging.

But I’ve got news for the corrupt medical establishment: Testing positive for a virus does not create a “case” of illness.

As every doctor and virologist knows, a “case” is only established when a person has:

1) A symptomatic expression of illness
2) The presence of an identified pathogen that is known to cause such symptoms

Merely carrying a virus is not a “case.” If that were true, then the vast majority of Americans would right now be diagnosed with “cases”
of influenza, and we would be in a media-declared influenza pandemic panic.
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August 22, 2020 1:28pm
- SB2
  
  “Testing positive for a virus does not create a “case” of illness.”
  
  Nobody of scientific repute says that!
  
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  August 22, 2020 3:09pm
Gravelroad

I see on stuff’s front page right now in the middle of today’s Covid update a blatant political broadcast video from Ms Ardern complete with Labour branding.
Way to go Jacinda – no, you are not politicising the Covid situation at all, are you…….
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August 22, 2020 2:06pm
surfing

It seems to me that community transmission is fully underway in Auckland.

Whether this lvl 3 will do the trick remains to be seen. It takes 4 weeks to really know. Which is why I think Aucklands will be at level 3 for 4 weeks.
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August 22, 2020 2:24pm
- SB2
  
  “.. fully underway in Auckland” ??
  
  Just supply the as always missing facts
  
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  August 22, 2020 3:07pm
- eview
  
  “It seems to me that community transmission is fully underway in Auckland.”
  
  I agree. There’s 9 people in hospital, several cases with no clear link, and the ‘cluster’ involves 5 churches and thousands of people being trusted to remain in ‘self-isolation.’
  
  “Whether this lvl 3 will do the trick remains to be seen.”
  
  Spoiler: it won’t. Level 3 is not hard enough and compliance is already too low according to google mobility data, and this will surely drop further the longer it lasts. So even if they extend it, it won’t do the trick and effectively contain the outbreak… and going to Level 4 is probably political suicide.
  
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  August 22, 2020 3:08pm
- RJ
  
  Here’s hoping that those people that left Auckland because the idiot prime minister gave time for people to escape haven’t taken it with them to the regions.
  
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  August 22, 2020 3:37pm
- Inandout
  
  surfing; suffer little businesses for dear Cindy knows not what she is doing.
  
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  August 22, 2020 3:47pm
Durden

Well done Turkey, and their neighbours.

https://m.dw.com/en/turkey-discovers-large-natural-gas-reserve-off-black-sea/a-54649882

St Jacinda bans Oil and Gas exploration, to gain kudos from the controlling imbeciles at UN and school kids here. She consigns us to energy poverty and waiting for Megan’s hydrogen miracle. The rest of the world sensibly carries on exploring and finding natural gas. Cheap energy that reduces emissions compared to coal and oil. And is more reliable than our solar, wind and even water (with our small water storage capacity compared to how much we let flow thru to the sea).

Disappointing to see it has not been raised by National or Act.
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August 22, 2020 2:57pm
- Inandout
  
  Durden, those two parties are aligned to the climate nazis.
  
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  August 22, 2020 3:12pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “Damn the dam said the fantails, as they flew into the sky” John Hanlon.
  John still turns on the light switch, John still cooks on an electric stove. Oh wait, he may just eat grass and silverbeet
  
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  August 22, 2020 3:32pm
eview

Does anyone have any insider knowledge about when the next poll will be released? Because I’m wondering how far Labour has fallen, in light of recent events.

Covid may have giveth the election to Labour, but it can also taketh it away from them, too…
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August 22, 2020 3:01pm
- Inandout
  
  eview, the next poll is the $50 million dollar question; or when Jacinda decides.
  
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  August 22, 2020 3:14pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Just told my local guy Bezzant that I don’t want him at my door, I don’t want photo ops with kids and babies; I want him to tear the shit out of the Labour liars.
  Reckons he is on to it
  
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  August 22, 2020 3:25pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Bezzant nods and agrees, turns away from the door and makes mental note for an addition to the nutters list.
    
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    August 22, 2020 4:38pm
- bruceavon
  
  Yep. I am very interested in the next poll too. Surely they have fallen massively. Here’s hoping.
  
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  August 22, 2020 5:36pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122492568/covidcards-work-but-making-them-mandatory-would-be-an-extreme-last-resort-says-minister
Fuck that.
So much wrong with this idea: being ‘compulsory’ is the first, applying to over-16 year olds but not the hundreds of thousands under 16 the second, impossibility of monitoring & compliance, ‘thin end of the wedge’ for more intrusive ideas, etc.
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August 22, 2020 3:25pm
Fletch

The see there is movement afoot to increase the term of govt from 3 to 4 years. Feck no. Three is more than enough. How are going to repair the damage inflicted by Labour on the country for three years, let alone four?
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August 22, 2020 4:07pm
RJ

This is wrong on so many levels, idiot

The Labour Party has posted a campaign ad on Facebook featuring a visit by Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern to ESR and the national contact tracing centre, with a brief appearance by director general of health Ashley Bloomfield.

Act leader David Seymour says it is scandalous and that no public servants should be used to help political parties to campaign.

“To even think it might be okay to go and use a Government department to shoot a political ad is just extraordinary,” Seymour said.

“One of the hallmarks of a democracy is you don’t get to use the power of Government for your own re-election.”

NZ Herald
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August 22, 2020 5:05pm
F E Smith

Powerlineblog notes that Karl Rove has put together a list that shows the Biden approach to COVID-19. Given what it Biden said at every stepm, is it fair to say that if Biden was president of the US that their death rate would be much higher?

The list:
1) Jan. 31: In response to Trump’s travel ban, Biden says “this is no time for Donald Trump’s record of hysteria and xenophobia – hysterical xenophobia.”
2) Early February: Biden public health advisory committee member says the coronavirus is less lethal than the SARS virus and a top aide says this “is probably not a serious epidemic.”
3) Mid February: Top Biden adviser says “we don”t have a Covid epidemic, we have a fear epidemic.”
4) Late February: Biden health adviser Zeke Emmanuel says many experts view the virus “like the flu” and expect it to dissipate with warmer weather moving to the southern hemisphere. Masks will not help, he adds.
5) Early March: Biden holds a mass indoor rally and criticizes the European travel ban as ineffective and “counterproductive.”
6) Mid March: Regarding Trump’s January 31st decision to close travel to China, Biden says “stop the xenophobic fear mongering.”
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August 22, 2020 5:11pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Now our Publicly-funded national Radio Station is running with the defamatory statement that Judith Collins is a bomb thrower.

Collins does not possess the traits required to instil a sense of security in voters. In the midst of a pandemic, few voters who recently shifted their support to Labour will be drawn back to National by a bomb-thrower with a history of dirty politics.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/424191/josiah-banbury-why-is-national-struggling-to-convince-voters
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August 22, 2020 6:19pm
- Wired-one
  
  Gerry was right. Our media are nothing more than Ardern sycophants. We all deserve better.
  
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  August 22, 2020 6:29pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  OMG, a ‘bomb-thrower!’
  *clutches pearls*
  
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  August 22, 2020 6:33pm
  - sooty
    
    You mean your nuts!
    
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    August 22, 2020 9:46pm
- RJ
  
  Awww, they sound scared of Judith. Oh well at least she isn’t a liar like Jacindy The Incompetent
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:42pm
- niggly
  
  Gee I wonder if the sniveling author can give us any literal or even figurative examples of Judith Collins’ so-called bomb-throwing?
  
  If not perhaps RNZ could ask him (so their lawyers can cover its defence case if a libel complaint is lodged)?
  
  I wonder what does the so-called “Democracy Project” and the author think when Labour MP’s throws “actual bombs” such as when:
  
  *Trevor Mallard allegedly falsely accused a Parliamentary staffer of being a rapist (which saw him lose his job)?
  
  *Grant Robertson falsely stated that National hacked into the Treasury server?
  
  *Megan Woods falsely stated that National MP Hamish Walker was a racist (which saw him clumsily defend his reputation resulting in his resignation)?
  
  *Pretty sure the likes of Andrew Little, Willie Jackson and David Parker have made similar dirty accusations about National MP’s (if I could be bothered checking historic articles)?
  
  *What about when Helen Clark “leaked” a false accusation to media about former Police Commissioner Doone (supposedly interfering with Police going about their duty)?
  
  Only the Left can do Dirty Politics and get away with it, it seems!
  
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  August 22, 2020 8:43pm