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August 28, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 28 August 2020

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General Debate

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Ian Boag

Plan C continued

https://www.traveloffpath.com

A (long) list of countries that have reopened their borders for tourists ….. some conditions re tests … no quarantines to speak of
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December 28, 2018 9:23am
- DeepBlue
  
  Jacinda wants Plan A. Cuba didn’t have tourists for years.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:48am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Yep. After 50 years of isolation, I cannot see many coming to New Zealand to buy a 2004 Honda Accord, not the same patina as a ’57 Bel Air . . .
    
    https://www.homesandantiques.com/antiques/collecting-guides-antiques/experts/drew-pritchard-why-patina-is-king/
    
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    August 28, 2020 10:09am
    - oob
      
      Great link Paulus.
      
      Here’s a more modern example. Meet the Visconti Homo Sapiens ‘Bronze Age’ Fountain Pen.
      
      These pens are manufactured in Florence (nearby the Ponte Vecchio) from volcanic rock taken from Mount Etna in Sicily, mixed with resin. Rather than modern bronze, Visconti uses the ancient Roman recipe for the inlays. Specifically because Roman bronze patinas more rapidly than modern bronze and patina is a feature FP owners tend to appreciate.
      
      Note this doesn’t apply to the nib which was 23ct Palladium until a couple of years ago when Visconti switched to 18ct Gold.
      
      Final point – because of the volcanic content (and a magnet in the cap for the replaceable finial) this pen is heavy.
      
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      August 28, 2020 12:33pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  (Thanks Grant), this article needs to be top of the page: https://www.aier.org/article/small-signs-of-hope-that-lockdons-could-soon-end/
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:46am
  - Scooter
    
    Italy for one.
    
    https://www.thelocal.it/20200823/no-more-lockdowns-italy-aims-to-stay-open-despite-rise-in-cases
    
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    August 28, 2020 6:03pm
- curry4me
  
  Ian Boag: Thanks for this. Very useful.
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:58am
- Hard Cheese
  
  Very useful, thanks
  
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  August 28, 2020 1:28pm
Tony Stuart

Will the Prime Minister front at 1pm today to explain the shortfall of 5385 Covid-19 tests on those in MIQ, as revealed by Newshub?

Here are the numbers, and how Newshub arrived at the figure of 5385:

Newshub has analysed MIQ data published daily by the Government beginning six weeks after the double testing was introduced.

Between 18 July and August 24, the number of day three and 12 tests required was 23,689 but the number completed was only 18,304 – a shortfall of 5,385

When Newshub alerted the Government to these numbers a rapid stock-take was ordered. The figures provided to Newshub on Thursday only include those who have arrived back this month.

“A new database was put in place from the beginning of August which is now giving us better information,” Hipkins said.

Of the just over 7200 who came back in August, 7043 – or 97.5 percent – have received at least one test, but only 5055 have received both, while 179 people have not been tested at all.

Number of returnees into New Zealand from August 1 to August 20: 7222
Number of returnees who arrived from August 1 to August 20 who have received at least one test: 7043
Percentage of returnees who arrived from August 1 to August 20 and received at least one test: 97.5 percent
Returnees who arrived between August 1 and August 20 and no testing data is recorded: 179

Some of those might not have been in isolation long enough to get their tests yet.

“I’m absolutely confident the testing has been happening as it needed to be happening but the reporting of that has not been as transparent and robust as it needed to be,” Hipkins said.

The Government still can’t provide an explanation for the 5500 shortfall in testing, despite a team of about 15 number crunchers working on it since Wednesday afternoon.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/08/health-minister-chris-hipkins-commits-to-overhaul-reporting-of-covid-19-testing-after-newshub-uncovers-massive-shortfalls.html

Chris Hipkins’ reassurances have become increasingly meaningless, and there’s plenty of evidence to suggest he is not all over the Health portfolio he inherited when David Clark resigned.

So the Prime Minister needs to front up and explain why, after previous testing failures were exposed on her watch, there are still people not being tested adequately. Is it any wonder at all the Covid-19 sneaked past border controls to start an Auckland cluster?

And please Prime Minister, don’t insult our intelligence by telling us that Covid-19 is a “tricky virus”; that simply doesn’t wash. You have all the resources of the Government at your disposal, and frankly the buck stops with you.
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December 28, 2019 9:56am
- Lee C
  
  Silly! Everything is fine.
  
  If it wasn’t “tens of thousands’ would now be dead from Covid 19.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:11am
  - mark15
    
    Oh no,somebody leaked the figures that chippy didn’t on the gunrunner hdpa show…
    
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    August 28, 2020 11:35am
- Ruawai
  
  It is still highly likely this virus came through when no isolation cases were tested and we had 24 days of no cases in isolation. These cases could have been quietly circling in the community for 6 weeks before coming to a head.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:19am
- Paulus
  
  Clark didn’t resign he got a DCM from Cindy’s office.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:56am
- Cinematic
  
  But Hipkins isn’t just confident, he’s absolutely confident. Relax.
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:22am
  - mark15
    
    That is so absolutely the most overused word.
    
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    August 28, 2020 11:35am
fernglas

Is this the cost-benefit analysis the PM claims not to have seen? https://www.productivity.govt.nz/assets/Documents/cost-benefit-analysis-covid-alert-4/92193c37f4/A-cost-benefit-analysis-of-5-extra-days-at-COVID-19-at-alert-level-4.pdf

Prepared by the Productivity Commission for Treasury, it analyses the cost to the economy of the 5 day extension to level 4 in April, and balances it against quality adjusted life years of those who would otherwise have died. It values the saved QALY’s at $8 million, against a loss to GDP of $759 million.

Perhaps it is about to become more public; the Herald, behind a paywall, has its former economics editor running interference already.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12359809

The valuing of the economy over lives is an ethical issue, but it is one which must be considered, and decisions should be made on the basis of proper consideration rather than a knee-jerk emotive response. Here, at least, is part of the debate which the Government seems to have overlooked or ignored.
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August 28, 2020 8:01am
- igm
  
  Good Lord, the unelected PM could not even be entrusted to operate the till in a fish and chip shop, so how would one expect her understand cost-benefit analysis or CPI/GDP?
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:10am
  - fernglas
    
    It’s of concern that decisions that are having an effect on us all are not only made without the public being properly informed, but apparently without the decision-maker being properly informed as well. The current “resurgence” plan appears based on modelling that was created in March, discredited in April, and not revised since, notwithstanding the modellers saying that it needed to be regularly updated. The facts and proper analysis are being ignored in favour of emotive and fear-driven responses which have little rational foundation. For an educated nation, we are allowing ourselves to be treated like peasants.
    
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    August 28, 2020 8:49am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      And that’s A-ok for many Labour Party supporters and RNZ texters.
      
      The economy is just so over-rated and really not that important
      
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      August 28, 2020 9:10am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  Remember: The world is NOT in the grip of an existential viral crisis!!!
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:12am
  - kowtow
    
    It’s in the grip of a media induced political funk.
    
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    August 28, 2020 8:59am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    I understand there are 2 generic drugs that taken with zinc may provided a treatment for early stage CV19. One has been promoted by Trump.
    
    IMHO the reasons Governments including our arent proceeding with them even though trials have been favourable is;
    
    1. Big Pharma has leant on Governments and told them unless they wait for Big Pharmas solution current drugs will become much more expensive and Big Pharmas vaccine will also become very expensive and hard to get.
    Remember Big Pharma funds medical science so scientists who want to keep their funding wont go against Big Pharma.
    
    It like science and Climate Change. Follow the money it always leads to the motivation.
    
    1. Trumps support for one of the drugs automatically rules it out. TDS.
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:19am
    - Ruahine
      
      Trump should have recommended Grandma’s Lysol.
      Start at 3.40 in.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aExUGQOnI0
      
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      August 28, 2020 12:02pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Wonderful!
        
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        August 28, 2020 6:21pm
- Cinematic
  
  The economy is the people. That’s why this type of analysis is critically important.
  
  Anyone with 1/2 a brain can see unbalanced emotional decisions have been made over the last few months in NZ. Rational thought has taken a back seat.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:24am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    unbalanced emotional decisions have been made the entire time cindys been in charge!!
    Oil n gas, gun bans, covid are just a few of the majors but many small emotion based decisions have been made aswell.
    
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    August 28, 2020 8:45am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      All the decisions have been based on ideology, what could possibly go wrong.
      
      Well everything. When you think it is NOT helpful to debate on facts.
      
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      August 28, 2020 9:14am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      ‘Headless chook’ decisions.
      
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      August 28, 2020 9:17am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Dratted paywall. Could somebody summarise Brian Fallow’s argument, preferably with fairness and objectivity, please? This is an important subject requiring thoughtful debate, but I am too mean and weak-stomached to actually pay the Herald to read his case.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:28am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I would highly recommend this post by Croaking Cassandra. It is a sensible commentary on the NZPC cost benefit analysis plus a couple of other parallel studies.
    
    https://croakingcassandra.com/2020/08/14/evaluating-choices/
    
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    August 28, 2020 8:52am
  - fernglas
    
    “The idea that what those lives saved are worth can be measured in dollars is repugnant on its face.”
    That’s the central ethical argument.
    The economic argument seems to be that the GDP that would otherwise have been saved would have been spent on “beer, or designer clothes, or marina fees or myriad other things on which we spend the 90 per cent of GDP not spent on health”
    Which has a strongly ethical underpinning. As usual, we are being told what conclusions to draw from facts rather than simply allowing the facts to speak for themselves.
    I didn’t see anything in Fallow’s article to suggest that the report was methodologically flawed, just that he didn’t like what the conclusions seemed to mean.
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:00am
    - cmm
      
      That is why the argument is never going to be won on a spreadsheet comparing dollars to lives, even though we make those calls all the time.
      
      There are only three ways to really do this:
      1) Compare lives lost to lives lost: What has been the long term impact of shutting hospitals and causing many people to go undiagnosed/untreated? What is the long term impact on the health system because we will be paying back debt and can’t afford to buy more hospital equipment & build hospitals? Quite likely the long term impact on health has been huge.
      
      2) Benchmark against other dollars vs lives decisions like I have a few times for Keytruda. If Keytruda was a bad deal, then the CV19 reposne has been hundreds of times worse.
      
      3) Make it a quality of life argument for those with the most skin in the game – the sick frail people most likely to be killed by (or with) CV19. If they only have an expected 1 to 2 years or so to live then do they want lockdown which strips that remaining time of value? Doesn’t sound like a good deal to me.
      
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      August 28, 2020 9:28am
      - virtualmark
        
        cmm,
        
        Understood, and I agree. But that’s a very techno-cratic way of looking at things, and the problem is most voters aren’t technocrats (ie they’re more emotional than analytical).
        
        And very few balanced people want to be the one that starts a conversation with “Let’s agree how many thousand New Zealanders we’re going to sacrifice for the sake of the economy”.
        
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        August 28, 2020 9:57am
      - Ruawai
        
        Close all roads until we can work out a way to get the road toll to zero. Stamp it out!
        
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        August 28, 2020 10:26am
      - Phronesis
        
        The whole intent of measures such as Quality Adjusted Life Years is to provide a way of comparing economic decisions in QALY’s instead of dollars. If we spend the money here we expect this many QALY’s, if we spend it there we expect this many. If we don’t spend the money, because we don’t have it, then we lose this many QALY’s. There are other considerations obviously around how such decisions are made but the reality is that we can get QALY’s down into the tens of thousand of dollars range for some interventions.
        
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        August 28, 2020 10:38am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Will NZ vote for fairy dust and wishes, rather than rational thought? I fear so. I know too many people who have swallowed the ‘it’s just money, you can’t compare that to lives’ line.
    
    It’s so weird, how can they not see that triage and funding decisions are made for health funding every day? And that well-being has to be a lot more than being free of one virus at any expense?
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:25am
    - Honorary Kiwi
      
      On your first paragraph I have thought about this a good deal. The problem is its “my life” verses “someone elses money.” I am not politically connected to this so forgive me but I do wonder if it is better for this government to win and then watch from the sidelines as the bottom of the world drifts further away. Until you reach ‘I am alive but I am absolutely out of a future’ minds will not change.
      
      Those that understand know you cannot go on with this for to long and in the West that is gaining traction but ‘them’ out there do not see that. I believe LD is wrong because it makes no difference and you invest in the law of diminishing returns. But I also think a water tight border is a non starter and it will come back again and again, if there is a short term kicker thats it.
      
      Why wouldn’t a politician want to run a competent campaign do credibly and sit and watch it unravel. Arderns view of the future needs to be well and truely shown to be a hoax. Blair was the brave new future until he became a war criminal for many and he was successful because for much of the time he wore the other guys clothes. This one is not for that.
      
      In the meantime the why are you LD 3 if you now have 552 ICU Beds whose asking those questions. You put the country in 4 rather than 2, as the health director said to protect the health service, now its ready so why 3. It seems to me even that exceptionally logical attack isn’t tried because the opposition will be accused of not caring and the spokespeople from the business community only seem to manage its regretable. Unless I have missed some media.
      
      On the whole I think you need a lot more people genuinely unemployed rather than resting before this changes.
      
      As to your second point a third lockdown might nail that argument.
      
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      August 28, 2020 6:46pm
- Simon
  
  “Let’s keep moving”
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:46am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Backwards
    To communism
    To economic ruin
    Does anybody have any idea more importantly does the inept fools pretending to be the government.
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:12am
    - gorse
      
      Go to deagel.com. Don’t know what they base their 2025 forecasts on. It is produced with consultation with a number of US agencies. The forecast New Zealand population is 3.5 million 2025. What do they think is going to happen to remove nearly a third of us?
      
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      August 28, 2020 9:34am
      - wimpston peeeders
        
        communism?
        
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        August 28, 2020 12:15pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      She has put into place, all the pieces, to make us a model 3rd world country.
      Have you noticed
      3rd world countries rely on
      Agriculture
      Tourism
      Foreign aid
      for their income.
      As meatloaf said….2 outa 3 ain’t bad.
      We now have airline pilots training to be farm machinery operators….didn’t Mao do that with doctors?
      
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      August 28, 2020 11:26am
- cmm
  
  As I have pointed out a few times, the cost-benefit ratio of the CV19 response is hundreds of times worse than that for funding Keytruda.
  
  We rejected funding Keytruda because it was not a good deal. Surely then the CV19 response has been a far worse deal – hundreds of times worse.
  
  Note: I am not shilling for Keytruda; just using it as a benchmark for what is or is not a “good deal”.
  
  I am unconvinced that this is even an economy vs health issue. Even on a health vs health basis it is likely killing more than it is saving.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:17am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Yes, but the headless chook media aren’t presenting it like that.
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:27am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  “Having power not only means you can look the other way. You can also omit, bury or otherwise conceal inconvenient truths.”
  – N.J. Enfield, July 2020.
  
  Skills that our PM has displayed time and time again.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:34am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
    
    “It would not be impossible to prove with sufficient repetition and a psychological understanding of the people concerned that a square is in fact a circle. They are mere words, and words can be molded until they clothe ideas and disguise.”
    ― Joseph Goebbels
    So …not new theory, utilized by our PTPM.
    
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    August 28, 2020 11:29am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    But the rest of the world is doing it.
    
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    August 28, 2020 7:49pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The economy affects multiple lives; Covid only a few.
  Mitigate don’t elininate.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:22am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Mitigate don’t eliminate……..agree
    
    https://humanorigins.si.edu/sites/default/files/HO_044_055_CHAP_3.pdf
    
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    August 28, 2020 11:33am
Happychappy

It never seems to amaze me that the media never want their own polls out for the public to see when the momentum in politics start to turn in the opposition’s way and the grab hold of other companies unscientific polls to stress how there favorite is performing and how poor the opposition are in there view. Remember the the polls in the final months before the 2017 General Election and how the media, One News and Newshubs poll figures had to be manipulated for the results that were being touted well this has happened this week with the Horizon poll in my opinion for what it is worth so again the media are again showing how corrupt they are inthe political world because it has to be there choice that wins and they will stop at nothing to achieve that result.
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August 28, 2020 8:02am
- Chuck Bird
  
  I have heard I think from Soper that TV3 Reid is polling now.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:10am
The Other Enoch

Govt falls short of contact tracing target, but says data was skewed.

Really?Just another pathetic excuse from these incompetent amateurs. Apart from Michael Morrah, where are the mainstream journalists holding these muppets to account? Or is COVID the harbinger of the death of the froth estate? (Typo intended)
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August 28, 2020 8:02am
- G152
  
  The only thing you have to know about our socalled media is that they are biased toward the left.
  Most of the time they hide it but any time something really serious comes up they go mad.
  Thus earning them the ‘fake news’ title..
  Anti white anti right and I don’t know why, anti Trump
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:13am
- Nickc2
  
  Drain the swamp that is NZ’s MSM.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:47am
  - curry4me
    
    Nickc2: It’d be great if ACT had a ‘defund broadcasting’ plank. Life would be harder for future
    Labour led governments without Pravda radio, and TV.
    
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    August 28, 2020 12:09pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Can’t disagree with that. Bring it on!
      
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      August 28, 2020 1:18pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Time to defund useless courses at our Tertiary Institutes:

Study shows low-level tertiary courses put Māori in debt with no earning gain
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12359067&ref=recommendedv1
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August 28, 2020 8:04am
- mikenmildagain
  
  True. The private tertiary training outfits are largely a scam, targeting the uninformed domestically and the overseas students seeking a foot on our immigration ladder.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:08am
- jaysper
  
  Can we please defund Bachelor of Arts too and similar nonsense too?
  Not only are these courses notoriously useless at getting jobs, but they are also where the modern cultural marxists go to learn their trade.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:08am
  - lifesgood
    
    Bachelor of arts degrees lead to dozens of different jobs. Don’t know where you get your information, jaysper. As a matter of interest Sir Bob Jones chooses arts graduates over any others because they have been taught to think for themselves.
    
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    August 28, 2020 8:26am
    - Crisplion
      
      I’d be interested to know whether Bob still thinks that, now that Humanities faculties have been overrun with woke cultural Marxists. As a libertarian academic in an Education faculty, I can assure you that I occupy a very lonely political perspective among my colleagues.
      
      To be sure there are still some high-quality courses to be found in our BA programmes but, regrettably, we’re fast going the way of North America in replacing disciplinary academic rigour with insane, extreme left political indoctrination. It’s even starting to infect mathematics and science faculties.
      
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      August 28, 2020 9:31am
      - bruceavon
        
        I can’t see why he wouldn’t still prefer people with BA’s. He’s a big reader, a writer, likes to discuss ideas. I think he would get bored surrounded by people with business degrees and accountants.
        
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        August 28, 2020 10:25am
      - Crisplion
        
        Yes, all of that is true. The problem is that – increasingly – BA courses aren’t about discussing ideas, in the sense of debating them, but about indoctrinating students with extreme and destructive ideologies.
        
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        August 28, 2020 10:46am
      - Mike22240
        
        I left Uni five years ago with a BA. In hindsight I would probably be a stronger writer if I had gone directly into the professional world. I also have to agree that it’s uncanny how many professors had a disdain for Capitalism. It would be lonely being an academic in the humanities on the right.
        
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        August 28, 2020 11:34am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Used to provide maybe, and may still in some majors. Wonder if Bob would be so keen to employ someone with a BA in gender studies or critical race theory ?
      
      I suspect not.
      
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      August 28, 2020 9:35am
      - lifesgood
        
        Do you think that he wouldn’t look into the subjects they took. He is no fool.
        
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        August 28, 2020 11:03am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      When I was at Auckland University, I always remember the graffiti in one of the toilets underneath the toilet roll holder that said………”BA Degrees….Please take one”.
      Always used to amuse me.
      
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      August 28, 2020 9:44am
    - barnacle bill
      
      @jaysper
      My youngest daughter did an Arts Degree and while over seas in London found that the degree opened doors and found it easy to get top roles in the city.
      She even had access into Ten Downing Street.
      
      And she has continued on being very successful while being back in NZ.
      
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      August 28, 2020 9:57am
    - amospicton
      
      I think you meant to say that they’ve been “taught how to think”…..universities, and particularly the humanities are hotbeds of leftwing extremism.
      
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      August 28, 2020 11:21am
      - barnacle bill
        
        How presumptuous of you Amos.
        
        Anyway democracy, is what democracy is.
        I am sure every individual of voting age is quite capable of making up their own minds which party to vote for.
        I am sure you will vote for the useless National Party MP for Kaikoura.
        
        Where does he rank in the party list ?
        
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        August 28, 2020 3:17pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Most university courses show good economic outcomes for graduates. This article points out the problems with the low-value certificate which take money and do not deliver much for the students or the country.
    But you should get upticks for the snarl words ‘cultural Marxists.’
    
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    August 28, 2020 8:31am
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      That’s because they provide credentialling not education. The more people go to University, the lower the standard has to be so the pass rates stay up and income keeps flowing, therefore those who don’t attend University are presumed to be less employable and end up in lower paid jobs.
      
      ‘Good economic outcomes for graduates’ in no way implies Universities are providing valuable education.
      
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      August 28, 2020 9:01am
      - thirteenstars
        
        Exactly. It’s the democratisation of higher education that’s to blame.
        
        You should have to qualify to go to university. Hell, you don’t even have to qualify for the student loan.
        
        It’s called higher education for a reason. Yet when anyone can get in the pass rates must inevitably fall. Do they? If not, the standards must be declining.
        
        Has a passing resemblance to what happened in some branches of the military when women were allowed into combat units.
        
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        August 28, 2020 9:24am
      - Batman
        
        Just a small point that the university entrance qualification still exists and is a higher bar than for NCEA.
        
        However, at 20 and over it is open entry to a certain extent… But if you fail you still have to pay of course.
        
        And the reason you don’t have to ‘qualify’ for the student loan scheme is that it covers everything from degree level to basic skills courses at polytechs. So if you had to qualify a lot of those people wanting basic skills would be, well, fucked.
        
        9 3
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        August 28, 2020 9:41am
      - thirteenstars
        
        “And the reason you don’t have to ‘qualify’ for the student loan scheme is that it covers everything from degree level to basic skills courses at polytechs. ”
        
        That’s no objection. You simply designate courses differently and set a higher bar.
        
        The problem is that the Diploma in Transgender Studies is regarded of equal value to an electrician’s qualification. But this is the stupidity you get into debating when education is publicly funded and open to all. Try that in a private system: you’d think long and hard about that Gender qualification and instead might try for something that will earn a good income in the real world.
        
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        August 28, 2020 10:21am
      - Batman
        
        That’s not how it works re qual comparison.
        
        The market still dictates what is popular. I don’t think there even if a diploma in trans studies, in case you weren’t being facetious haha. You could do an honours or thesis paper on it i suppose, given those are self-selecting research topics.
        
        Anyway, here is what prospective students get directed towards at school etc, there was a big push by the last government to help students make an informed choice so that they don’t go and do gender studies or latin and think they’ll walk into a job that pays well afterwards….
        
        “Compare Study Options” https://www.careers.govt.nz/tools/compare-study-options/
        
        The intent is to give them an idea of what actually pays off in the long run, rather than idealism at school.
        
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        August 28, 2020 10:27am
      - thirteenstars
        
        “The market still dictates what is popular. ”
        
        No it doesn’t. You’ve short-circuited the market by providing government loans that require no collateral and are paid back based on income level. That is, if you engage in speculative educational choices that don’t pay off you don’t suffer the consequences of your bad decision, nor do you need to justify the efficacy of your intended qualification before receiving the loan.
        
        That’s like a bank requiring no collateral for a business loan, and no appraisal of the risk, and then setting repayments based on the level of the business’ income.
        
        Which is why loan debt is growing a drastic rates despite declining tertiary numbers, and IRD now has the power to arrest loan defaulters at the border.
        
        “Average student loan balances have increased substantially over time. For instance, a 2007 survey by the New Zealand Union of Students’ Associations found that the average student debt was over NZ$28,000, up 54% from 2004.[4] (For comparison, the average annual income (before tax) of New Zealanders aged 15 or more was nearly NZ$35,000.)[12]
        
        The total student debt reached $5 billion in 2002 and then $10 billion in 2008, and has been growing by approximately $1 billion annually.[4] As of December 2014 student loan debt was $14.2 billion.[13] While student debt has increased, the number of students enrolled in tertiary education has generally declined in recent years. In January 2017 it was estimated 731,800 people, with an average balance of $21,000 had outstanding student loans representing a total of $15.3 billion.[14]”
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_loans_in_New_Zealand#:~:text=While%20student%20debt%20has%20increased,a%20total%20of%20%2415.3%20billion.
        
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        August 28, 2020 12:53pm
      - Nigel Kearney
        
        The fact employers still think possession of a degree is useful could be regarded as a kind of market failure.
        
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        August 28, 2020 2:40pm
    - Crisplion
      
      ‘Cultural Marxist’ is not a “snarl word” – it’s an accurate description of a doctrine that has replaced socioeconomic class with identity group – whether based on ethnicity, sexuality or gender – but nonetheless posits society to be nothing but an eternal and asymmetric conflict between oppressors and oppressed. It’s divisive and authoritarian and will lead to nothing good, least of all the emancipation of those whose interests it purports to stand for.
      
      As for the “good outcomes” part – yes, there’s a strong market for well-paid and secure careers for graduates with grievance studies majors in the public service.
      
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      August 28, 2020 9:37am
      - thirteenstars
        
        Oh, but the coming hate speech laws may very well hold Cultural Marxist to be a phrase that demonises a group and subjects them to ridicule and therefore should be banned.
        
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        August 28, 2020 1:03pm
    - David George
      
      I don’t know what you would suggest to replace it but the Marxist tag is, in the absence of anything better, inclusive of the doctrines based or derived from the Marxist critique modified and expanded to include any and all, real or imagined, victim/oppressor narratives. Even the Marxist label itself has been weaponised:
      “Instead, they disorient their opponents by referring to their beliefs with a shifting vocabulary of terms, including “the Left,” “Progressivism,” “Social Justice,” “Anti-Racism,” “Anti-Fascism,” “Black Lives Matter,” “Critical Race Theory,” “Identity Politics,” “Political Correctness,” “Wokeness,” and more. When [true] liberals [and conservatives] try to use these terms they often find themselves deplored for not using them correctly, and this itself becomes a weapon in the hands of those who wish to humiliate and ultimately destroy them.”
      Try this and get back MM:
      https://quillette.com/2020/08/16/the-challenge-of-marxism/
      
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      August 28, 2020 10:01am
      - SB2
        
        At least they are not relying to mationalise land and Agriculture and other means of production!
        
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        August 28, 2020 10:50am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    I rekon only useful degrees should be covered by student loans etc, the more useless the less % funding available.
    Would work well if mummy and daddy had to fork out the full cost of gender studies or arts degree, would give them a chance for intervention and a good clip round the ear followed by a WTF are you thinking chat.
    
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    August 28, 2020 8:35am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Even better: ‘fund it yourself by getting a job in the real world’. They would quickly learn about business and money.
      
      6 2
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      August 28, 2020 9:39am
    - Nickc2
      
      This scheme by the corrupt Labour Party prior to the last election was two fold IMO:
      1. Falsly reduce the unemployment figures and
      2. Buy votes.
      Letting ill equiped people undertake University study has been a total waste of taxpayers money (Labour Confetti).
      
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      August 28, 2020 10:07am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      What objective, rational, empirically-based measure would you use to determine what is and what isn’t a “useful” degree?
      
      Because “I know this guy who did x” isn’t it, for a start.
      
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      August 28, 2020 10:09am
      - wimpston peeeders
        
        Degrees that relate to jobs that are in demand. the less job oportunity then either limit entry numbers or limit the funding.
        
        5 1
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        August 28, 2020 12:19pm
  - Centrist
    
    A clever Southland kid from Lumsden completed an honours’ degree in English (must’ve liked the word) and became perhaps our best ever finance minister.
    
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    August 28, 2020 8:39am
    - Centrist
      
      Apologies – Dipton
      
      15 2
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      August 28, 2020 8:58am
    - alwyn
      
      Your story is true but it omits his early education.
      He received Bachelor of Commerce and Bachelor of Arts degrees from Otago University in 1985. The BA (Hons) degree from VUW would only have been a one-year course following on from his previous study. I suspect the B Comm degree was far more relevant to his later career than was the Literature study.
      
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      August 28, 2020 10:35am
    - lifesgood
      
      Hear, hear. My son did an Arts degree and is having a highly successful career in the world of finance. I wouldn’t mind ever have been paid what he is earning.
      
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      August 28, 2020 11:07am
  - Lance
    
    Beware Architecture is an Arts course, although the Degree is Bachelor of Architecture and Masters of Architecture etc
    
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    August 28, 2020 8:39am
  - Ruawai
    
    Universities are first and foremast academic and research based not job creators.
    
    7 0
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    August 28, 2020 10:28am
    - SB2
      
      Ruwai, I think those students studying Enginerring, Commerce , Medicine etc would tend to disagree with your nonsense!
      
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      August 28, 2020 10:52am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  The ‘Teachers'” Fraud!
  
  8 4
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  August 28, 2020 8:14am
  - SB2
    
    Sigmund Freud , a typical far right anti intellectual statement .
    
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    August 28, 2020 10:53am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  From the Herald:
  “A disproportionate number of rangatahi leave school after completing NCEA Level 2 to go on to level 3 certificates at PTEs [Private Training Establishments]. Unfortunately those that do will earn significantly lower wages by age 25 than those rangatahi who stayed longer at school,” the report said.”
  
  Why substitute functional English terms with a Te Reo term “rangatahi”? The only justification would be that “rangatahi” symbolizes concepts that are absent from the English term “youth” or “young person.”
  
  Perhaps a better translation, in the context of the article, for “rangatahi” would be “neph”?
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:31am
  - Ehlana
    
    And why not provide a translation in brackets for those who don’t know the word – the Herald used to do this for words like whanau (family). It was a good way to combine New Zealand English (an evolving branch) with internationally standard English, making the story accessible to a wider audience.
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:29am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Because if you’re woke, you already think you know. If you’re not, you don’t matter.
      
      12 3
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      August 28, 2020 10:34am
- Albert_Ross
  
  In addition – more of a focus on the demand side. It’s bad enough that life-defining decisions have to be made at an age when most of us are complete and utter idiots, there is no need to compound that by leaving the decision to uninformed and unadvised idiots.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:33am
  - namron
    
    Good point, Albert.
    And some people want kids of that age also to be permitted to vote for a government!!
    
    8 1
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    August 28, 2020 9:38am
- Centrist
  
  The worst thing are courses to become a barista. The kids go in thinking they’ll qualify to get good jobs as lawyers and all they end up good for is making a cup of coffee.
  
  I’ll get my hat.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:43am
- SGA
  
  @Maggy
  “Time to defund useless courses at our Tertiary Institutes:”
  From the article –
  
  “A disproportionate number of rangatahi leave school after completing NCEA Level 2 to go on to level 3 certificates at PTEs [Private Training Establishments]. Unfortunately those that do will earn significantly lower wages by age 25 than those rangatahi who stayed longer at school,” the report said.
  
  I agree that some of the PTE might be rip offs. But this particular study looks flawed. There are likely to be differences (attitude and/or aptitude) between those who choose to stay to Level 3 and those who don’t. These are reflected further down the track at age 25. You could probably do a study comparing those who leave after Level 2 and then do or don’t carry on to some tertiary course later and find that the tertiary courses did some good for many of them?
  
  Who knows – on the face of it, it’s not compelling research either way (imho).
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:04am
  - Ed Snack
    
    I’d have to agree, the unstated assumption is that at the NCEA Level 2 stage those who stay and those who leave are equivalent in terms of ability and motivation; I in fact doubt very much that this is the case.
    
    So insisting that the “ranagatahi” stay at school instead of leaving is rather unlikely to produce any improvement in those people’s educational and employment outcomes.
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:40am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Here’s the 2019 BERL study
    http://www.maorifutures.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/BERL-Education-Awa-Education-Outcomes-for-Maori.pdf
    
    Here’s a readable summary:
    https://www.waikatotainui.com/assets/Other-Files-/Documents/He-Awa-Ara-Rau/dd82205edf/He-Awa-Ara-Rau-A-Journey-of-Many-Paths.pdf
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:51am
- Classic Liberal
  
  The article doesn’t list which courses, except vaguely ‘hospitality industry’.
  
  This is what will happen next under a Labour government: encourage whatever courses young people say they want. Lots of ‘environmental’ and ‘cultural’ stuff, but only fashionable cultural.
  
  Then make sure graduates get into cushy community jobs in their ‘field of expertise’, by funding such jobs with your money.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:36am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Green schools?
    
    2 0
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    August 28, 2020 8:48pm
- graham
  
  The article didn’t mention or single out any particular courses … I wonder if that’s because some of the most useless courses are, ahem, ‘cultural’?
  
  I am struggling to understand just why, for example, we are funding a 38-week course in “Mau Rākau – Māori Martial Arts”. At least I *presume* it’s Government-funded, as the webpage proclaims “No fees”.
  
  Look, I have no problems with people learning things that interest them – I’m learning to play the piano, purely for my own enjoyment. But I’m in my 50’s and well-established in my career. Also, I’m paying for it myself. When you’re fresh out of school and trying to find a way into the workforce, is this REALLY the best use of your time? Does the institution offering this course honestly think it’s going to provide wonderful career opportunities?
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:37am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    The wonderful career opportunities for the correct graduates will be created – with your tax dollars.
    
    5 2
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    August 28, 2020 10:37am
  - Nickc2
    
    Why is a Mau Rākau – Māori Martial Arts diploma preferably with honours required …
    [Deleted – Mod. Generalising entire ethnic groups is a racist trope and against the rules of the blog.]
    
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    August 28, 2020 11:54am
- KevO'Brien
  
  I would expect that. Course providers make money by selling the sizzle not the sausage. $7,000 p.a. for a degree in flax basket making?
  Our Ed. Dept is useless at evaluating and controlling such situation.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:26am
- RW Capitalist
  
  My question:
  How much more do any of us need to know about politics?
  Political Science seems to be one of the largest courses on campus.
  When we can’t seem to train enough:
  Doctors
  Nurses
  Engineers
  Accountants
  even Lawyers
  
  ETC ETC
  
  12 2
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  August 28, 2020 10:44am
  - SGA
    
    Political Science seems to be one of the largest courses on campus.
    
    It is? Really? Colour me skeptical.
    
    even Lawyers
    
    I thought it was quite competitive for Law graduates to find jobs? Not so?
    
    3 1
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    August 28, 2020 1:55pm
- curry4me
  
  Maggy Wassilieff: Yes, I’d like to see ACT copy Sco Mo. He has greatly raised the price of joke courses.
  They should add a similar plank to their manifesto.
  
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  August 28, 2020 12:11pm
gravedodger

Am I alone in wondering if the diminutive little scroat was as big as he was remembered in the minds of survivors of his rampage, sans the AR 15 he should never have been able to lawfully access?
11 6
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August 28, 2020 8:05am
TWEEDSE

Lots of noise at Whenuapai Airbase last night at 10:30. Hercules landed then helicopter flying over to Paremoremo.

This guy is costing, and will cost us a fortune.

It’s a pitty he wasn’t shot at the time.
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August 28, 2020 8:05am
- mikenmildagain
  
  It was clear from the judge’s sentencing that one thing he really, really didn’t want was to get harmed himself. Hence his tame surrender to the police.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:32am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Yes, I believe it was in his “manifesto” that he intended to surrender.
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:50am
- Raphael
  
  If he had been shot he would have become a martyr for the other Eco-Fascists.
  
  16 5
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  August 28, 2020 8:54am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Too cowardly to become a martyr.
    
    12 2
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    August 28, 2020 9:03am
  - SB2
    
    Eco Facsim is a term that refers to nature and forest worship that the Nazi regime fostered and encourged .
    
    The green wing of Nazism to put it succinctly!
    
    1 15
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    August 28, 2020 10:59am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      There were ecofascists around before the rise of the Nazis.
      
      Check out this famous American environmentalist/conservationist
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madison_Grant
      
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      August 28, 2020 2:46pm
- peterwn
  
  It occurred to me that if LWOP was going to be repealed (along with three strikes) by Andy Little and co, repealing LWOP would now be right off the table. If LWOP were repealed, then the offender could almost certainly seek a re-sentencing under any revised law and that would cause public outrage. Anyway attempting to repeal LWOP within the next several years would cause outrage in itself.
  Imagine if Andy had succeeded in repealing LWOP before the shootings – Labour would really have had egg on its face.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:06am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Andrew Little has been very quiet lately.
    
    16 1
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    August 28, 2020 9:57am
    - Nickc2
      
      He’s very busy writing hymns for others to sing.
      He hasn’t been seen at Pike River lately either. They must have figured out by now he’s all BS (dangerous BS that is).
      
      16 1
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      August 28, 2020 10:17am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    If LWOP had not been available, a non-parole period of fifty or sixty years would probably serve the same purpose.
    
    5 3
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    August 28, 2020 12:13pm
- fernglas
  
  Corrections: “Where is he?”
  Air Force: ” We thought you guys had him”
  Corrections: ” Hadn’t you better close the tail ramp before we all catch our death of cold?”
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:00am
Maggie Pie

I see Mt Roskill is back in the news again….

https://twitter.com/NZStuff/status/1298808840834564096

(Remember: ALWAYS WASH YOUR HAND )
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August 28, 2020 8:10am
- pdm
  
  For goodness sake Maggie – get it right.
  
  The mantra is:
  
  WASH YOUR HANDS
  WASH YOUR HANDS
  WASH YOUR HANDS
  
  Be kind.
  
  13 2
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  August 28, 2020 9:19am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Labour’s next campaign add????
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MH6efoYzJE
    
    7 2
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    August 28, 2020 10:52am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      LOL!!
      
      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgdNJUwWAAAM8wI?format=jpg&name=small
      
      5 1
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      August 28, 2020 1:05pm
  - greybeard
    
    Maggie did get it right. Or left.
    Very subtle is Maggie.
    
    9 1
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    August 28, 2020 11:32am
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Wash your mouth out?
    
    1 0
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    August 28, 2020 9:02pm
- SB2
  
  Maggie Pie. the tweet states ” possibly ” 400 Not defintely infected with Covid!
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:03am
G152

Seeing that there have been no covid cases in the South Island does the wearing of face masks on public transport also apply there ?
28 2
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August 28, 2020 8:14am
- fernglas
  
  Yes
  
  15 0
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  August 28, 2020 8:20am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s a nation-wide ruling.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:21am
  - igm
    
    Got to appease the politburo, UN, and WHO.
    
    27 6
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    August 28, 2020 8:28am
    - kowtow
      
      Conditioning the sheeple for future dictates.
      
      20 3
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      August 28, 2020 8:43am
    - curry4me
      
      igm: The Warehouse in South City was sold out by 9:40. So, I got some from the Chemist Warehouse which has replaced the supermarket there. I’ll just wear the same one on the bus.
      
      4 2
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      August 28, 2020 12:17pm
  - Sigmund Freud
    
    … for a nation-wide tyranny!
    
    18 3
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    August 28, 2020 8:29am
    - SB2
      
      Sigmund Freud, absolute nonsense! Merely a crude propoganda remark!
      
      1 13
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      August 28, 2020 11:05am
- MCos
  
  Next week, when this rule comes in, plenty of people from Auckland will be heading down south.
  Apart from that it makes sense unless you think the NZ borders are perfectly watertight, which is impossible no matter what precautions are taken.
  
  Not much public transport in the South Island anyway.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:52am
- Mummy
  
  As a Facebook meme says, it’s not about health it’s about compliance.
  
  13 2
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  August 28, 2020 9:18am
  - Batman
    
    Never get advice from Facebook memes.
    
    3 9
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    August 28, 2020 9:43am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      still better then batman, his crappy mask dosent even cover his mouth.
      
      1 2
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      August 28, 2020 12:27pm
- Nickc2
  
  Of course, don’t try and confuse Dear Leader.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:55am
- HeatherW
  
  Case from MIQ yesterday was in Christchurch (Sudima) Female in 20’s from Turkey via London and Hong Kong.
  
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  August 28, 2020 2:01pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  That you know of.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:03pm
wimpston peeeders

well farmers are battling to stop the abrurdity of some of the govts proposals.
the main ones are the cropping on 10+degree slopes and a rigid plantback date.
some farms literally dont have a slope less then 10degrees! Not only that but the flatter the paddock the higher risk of pugging due to waterlogging.
a logical aproach would be have differing buffer zones of ungrazed ground on slopes eg. 0.5m per degree, I beleive environment southland had this type of thing in their land plan before the govt went and steamrolled their years of hard work and progress.
Plantback period is retarded as its weather dictated! Every farmer wants their paddocks back in rotation and generating income asap, a dry year theyre replanted early but a spring like last year here in southland and many struggled to even get moving prior to oct/nov it would dry enough to get on the paddocks a few days and then turn wet for weeks.m

this is yet another CoL assault of farming and nzs backbone and with little thought put into it and just a blanket aproach that will likely do more waterway damage then current practices, yet more rules made by some twats in an office in wellington that dont have a clue!
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August 28, 2020 8:15am
- igm
  
  Are our pigs required to leave indentations of less than 2cm when rooting up paddocks?
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:31am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    its 20cm which to be fair is reasonable, ive dairy farmed for 11 of the last 17yrs and no one wants cows belly deep in mud and it aint fun moving fences and feeding out in it.
    
    but god help those pigs if they cultivate a slope without consent! and even worse if ya dont sprinkle seed on it before october.
    
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    August 28, 2020 8:50am
    - igm
      
      Lovely when these ridiculous and expensive rules are the result of some deadbeat envious public servant who would not know the difference between a handpiece and a titcup.
      
      20 2
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      August 28, 2020 9:12am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Too much advice is being by Nimby.
        
        2 5
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        August 28, 2020 10:29am
    - Phronesis
      
      Yeah but I’m not farming the pigs. Am I still going to get done for the damage they do to my pastures when food is running low in the bush?
      
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      August 28, 2020 11:30am
- Gravelroad
  
  But why do we need farming when most of us know that food comes from the supermarket?
  Fake meat.
  
  40 2
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  August 28, 2020 8:32am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    Same reason we dont ban sex when we know babies come from hospitals.
    
    26 2
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    August 28, 2020 8:51am
    - igm
      
      Hell no, babies are income for Labour supporters!
      
      18 2
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      August 28, 2020 9:13am
Kiwi_in_Paris

I doubt whether the media will ever report this win for the common law in Western Canada, so here it is:

https://twitter.com/DrButtar/status/1299010602635948032
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August 28, 2020 8:16am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  the most common sense covid laws ive seen so far 🙂
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:28am
- MCos
  
  The media doesn’t report the declarations of every self appointed tinpot bunch of cranks in the world.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:02am
  - ldypen
    
    You know that is not true.. the media ALWAYS report what Cindy declares.
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:17am
- Classic Liberal
  
  I can’t see what the common law win actually is in that twitter link. Could you summarise?
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:03am
Simon

Green Party School Taranaki. Where they teach students to sell out their principles to the highest bidder.

The school will have a plaque of the James Shaw to underpin what their particular species of left is all about. Mr Rainbow Sustainability himself peddling his fraudulent shit to mugs all the while banking those cheques.
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August 28, 2020 8:31am
- Bobba Fret
  
  James Shaw is being attacked by a lot of ex Greenies over this. I wonder if this decision could drop their support to below the 5% threshold?
  Unfortunately the support would go to Labour, but it would be like a dream come true if we lost both the Green Party and NZF from Parliament in October.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:05am
  - Nickc2
    
    A Green’s School in Taranaki? That’s the Greens Party poking an upward thrust middle finger at the people of Taranaki because the Greens/Labour have shut down their/NZ’s Oil and Gas industry. Remember this on voting day – NO TICKS GREEN, NO TICKS LABOUR.
    
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    August 28, 2020 1:51pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Like Grouch Marx, the Green Party has principles. And again like Groucho Marx, if you don’t like their principles, they have others…
  
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  August 28, 2020 1:27pm
  - Rachael Membery
    
    Or ‘other’ funding.
    
    1 0
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    August 28, 2020 9:11pm
wimpston peeeders

how the hell does it cost 5k per day to lock a cell door and throw away the key?
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August 28, 2020 8:31am
I remember when

“An emotional Jacinda Ardern has called for the name of ‘the now convicted Christchurch mosques gunman to never be repeated again’.
Is that the right approach?
Would it make him a bit of a ‘boogie man’.
Someone scary, rather than someone, very insignificant, whose whole life has been wasted.
Perhaps, even someone to remind us of the dangers of letting people get marginalised.
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August 28, 2020 8:35am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Brenton Tarrant, you mean? Good that he’s back at Paremoremo already, but surely they can’t keep him in solitary confinement for the rest of his life.
  
  28 1
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  August 28, 2020 8:43am
  - Melbury
    
    Yes, that’s right, Brenton Tarrant.
    
    19 1
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    August 28, 2020 9:11am
  - pdm
    
    I am sure the convicted mass murderers name was Brenton Tarrant.
    
    17 1
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    August 28, 2020 9:21am
    - lifesgood
      
      Oh, did she mean Brenton Tarrant?
      
      9 1
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      August 28, 2020 11:16am
- Centrist
  
  I wonder if she’ll apologise for speaking and voting against LWOP in 2010. Can’t see it myself, but if National brings it up it will be labelled as dirty politics.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:45am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  Michael Jackson was the ‘boogie man’.
  
  I assume you mean a ‘BOGEY-MAN’!
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:47am
  - Lee C
    
    Michael was arguably a bit of both, Ziggy.
    
    12 1
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    August 28, 2020 9:06am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      You would have to ask Macaulay Culkin about that!
      
      3 1
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      August 28, 2020 9:19am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  shes watched/read too much harry potter and voldamortised him.
  
  imo it gives credibility to his cause in the eyes of his idolizers and could do more harm then good.
  I rekon talk about him and ridicule openly so anyone silently thinking of similar attacks knows we all think hes a loser, failure, constantly mocked and not someone a country is to scared to even name.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:56am
- Inandout
  
  Irw, in North Korea certain names are forbidden to be spoken.
  
  6 1
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  August 28, 2020 9:24am
- dave_c_
  
  Ha ! More of the “We know best”, and “Do as you are instructed” stuff.
  Speak publicly about that ‘un-named’ non-person, and y’all i’ll be locked away yourselves ! Papers please !
  
  11 1
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  August 28, 2020 9:28am
- Hard Cheese
  
  They interviewed someone who had studied the Breivik case in Norway, they said the approach there was exactly the opposite to what Ardern is doing – for some of the reasons you outline
  
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  August 28, 2020 4:34pm
Simon

Remember Comrades as St Jacinda and folk hero Bloomfield battle the spin over clusters that in Black Death Europe in the 1350s there was only one cluster.

Ignore the clusters and get behind St Jacinda. We are in Jacinda’s team now. That all that matters.
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August 28, 2020 8:36am
- KevO'Brien
  
  A great deal matters, including getting Ardern R. out of Parliament as quickly as possible. Her Labour mobs damage to date will still be affecting us in 20 years.
  
  This has been incompetence at the level of fraud perpetuated recklessly without knowledge, care or consequences.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:35am
Wangas Feral

The government can provide me with masks if they want me to wear one. Otherwise it is a bandana which is next to useless or some homemade one that is almost next to useless.
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August 28, 2020 8:37am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  Not useless. It’s your serf badge.
  
  Sad really.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:53am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  They offer as much protection as gladwrap is for a condom.
  
  imo its a dangerous precident to set by instructing masses to manufacture there own medical supplies.
  we have quality control and standards for a very good reason. technically you could wear a net curtain or similar mesh and meet the criteria of a face covering.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:15am
  - Sacha
    
    A ‘face-covering’ is not a mask. Neither is a net curtain.
    Most commercially available masks are
    good for an hour’s use, and then only if they don’t become damp.
    How long do most people wear their masks for? If you are going to the mall, how many masks will you take so that you are being effective in managing your infection-spreading potential? And will you change to a fresh one each time you sneeze or cough ?
    How will you dispose of the ‘soiled’ item?
    Will you wash your hands after disposing of it?
    Masks as a method of infection control have their place, but must be correctly used to be effective, otherwise it’s all show.
    
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    August 28, 2020 10:41am
    - lifesgood
      
      I am certain that people are wearing those disposable masks repeatedly.
      
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      August 28, 2020 11:19am
    - theoldbloke
      
      Oh dear, another great conspiracy/fake news thread.
      
      I would have drawn the benefits in crayons for you kiddies but here is an article that covers it. Its in pictures.
      
      https://interestingengineering.com/researchers-visualize-the-cough-airflows-under-various-masks
      
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      August 28, 2020 2:29pm
- Rachael Membery
  
  Red and blue are out, which other are gang colours?
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:17pm
All_on_Red

A teenager faces charges in shootings that left 2 people dead in Kenosha, WI. The
@nytimes Visual Investigations team reviewed hours of livestreams to track 17-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse’s movements during and leading up to the shootings. [THREAD]

https://mobile.twitter.com/trbrtc/status/1298839097923063809

Looks like self defence
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August 28, 2020 8:37am
- mark15
  
  Looks to me like the tide is turning…
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:44am
- Lance
  
  The little shit flew there so he could shoot some protesters. A screw loose.
  
  I would have more sympathy IF he was protecting his own place of business or family home.
  
  And just so somebody doesn’t start shrieking hysterically, NO, the protesters shouldn’t be attacking people or property.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:45am
  - All_on_Red
    
    lance
    If you read the thread you will see he was there with friends protecting a car dealership.
    The Police actually stopped, spoke to them, thanked him, even gave him some water.
    He got attacked after he left and was going home.
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:05am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    He lived 14kms away. Did he charter a helicopter?
    
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    August 28, 2020 10:29am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Rittenhouse had been in a cadet program for police and fire services, worked as a lifeguard, had been voluntarily cleaning grafitti during the preceding day, was carrying a medical kit to help people that the protesters attacked.
    
    Was chased by a nutter, who threw a molotov cocktail at him ran until cornered and assaulted then turned and shot him dead. Called for help then mob descended upon him and he ran again somehow winding up on ground where he was attacked by two more nutters one who kicked and hit him in head with a skateboard, who he managed to shoot and kill, and a second who had a hand gun who he shot in the arm. Clear self defense in all cases.
    
    All of these 3 nutters were convicted crims. The kid is going to walk free aside from possible misdemeanor charge for firearm possession. And he is going to get big payouts from people who have defamed and libeled him.
    
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    August 28, 2020 11:17am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Why the downtick? There is clear evidence for all of this (except maybe the criminal records of the two dead, the MSM is only offering up family accounts etc of them). I’m pretty sure the kid had an open carry licence so I’m not even sure he’ll get a possession charge (but the criminal with the unlicenced hand gun should).
      
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      August 28, 2020 12:43pm
- Raphael
  
  And the people he shot (after being chased, falling down and being attacked):
  Joseph Rosenbaum, deceased, convicted pedophile. Served 12.5 years for sexual contact with a minor.
  Gaige Grosskreutz, a convicted burglar who was illegally carrying a gun.
  Anthony Huber, deceased, convicted domestic abuser. Convicted of multiple domestic abuse counts, ADW, battery, false imprisonment, and “strangulation and suffocation”.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:59am
- Libertarians are right
  
  In fact, the people that were lynching him should be charged with attempted murder.
  There is no way they can even pretend he had intent to kill. His intent the whole time was clearly to escape (except when he stopped to help the guy he shot whilst defending himself). Their intent however (throwing incendiaries etc) was to kill him.
  Simple cases.
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:59am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Sorry, note that the incendiary was just a brick in a bag. The light of the camera made it look like an incendiary but the guy was just trying to bludgeon him to death, not burn him to death.
    
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    August 28, 2020 3:09pm
- virtualmark
  
  Red,
  
  To quote Shakespeare, “a pox on both their houses”.
  
  The rioters had no excuse to be out looting and vandalising.
  
  And allowing a 17yo with Dirty Harry wet dreams to be walking around with an AR-15 was always a high probability of turning into a disaster. But, that’s American culture and gun laws …
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:05am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    (democrat) authorities have abrogated their responsibility to protect people and property from rioters. At this point it is fair enough that citizens have stepped up to do what the govt is failing to do.
    
    10 2
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    August 28, 2020 11:21am
    - virtualmark
      
      Urban,
      
      This unrest has risen from US police forces excessive use of force against black offenders. And from Boogaloo/Proud Boys/QAnon types drawn to the flame (as seen in the recent Oakland police killings, and with Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha, but before that for example in Charlottesville)
      
      Those are groups that overwhelmingly voted for Trump.
      
      It seems pretty weird to say “A Biden presidency would lead to violence in the suburbs” when the facts on the ground today is that the violence in the suburbs is happening under a Trump presidency, and largely driven by groups who have and will vote for him.
      
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      August 28, 2020 1:59pm
- SB2
  
  Self-defence?, I don’t think so
  
  Kenosha: teen charged with murder after two Black Lives Matter protesters killed
  
  Three shot by gunman thought to be linked to a militia as Wisconsin city rocked by further violence
  
  A 17-year-old has been arrested and charged with murder after two people were killed on Tuesday night when violence erupted in Kenosha, Wisconsin, after white vigilante-type agitators shot at Black Lives Matter protesters.
  
  The suspect has been named in court documents as Kyle Rittenhouse, from Antioch, Illinois, 20 miles south-west of Kenosha, where protesters have been marching on the streets demanding justice and reform since police shot and gravely wounded a young Black father, Jacob Blake, on Sunday. Rittenhouse was taken into custody in Antioch.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/26/jacob-blake-shooting-gun-battle-in-kenosha-on-third-night-of-unrest
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:15am
  - Raphael
    
    “police shot and gravely wounded a young Black father, Jacob Blake, on Sunday”
    
    You mean the violent offender, with a felony arrest warrant, that they cops got called out to for him being where he wasn’t meant to be (domestic violence), who was actively resisting arrest, who the cops shot after he pulled out of their grasp and had a knife in his car
    
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    August 28, 2020 12:46pm
    - virtualmark
      
      The cops who, if they believed he had a knife, should have (a) stationed an officer next to the car to stop Blake getting *anything* from the car and (b) kept a gun trained on him but stepped back out of knife range.
      
      The thing I can’t understand is why do US cops think they can behave like this in a world where everyone has a video camera in their pocket? The Eric Garner choking and Jacob Blake shooting just say that the old “a cops word against someone else’s word” thing doesn’t apply any more. If you cock up there will be video.
      
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      August 28, 2020 2:04pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Interesting take on how the left and right are spinning this story:
  https://twitter.com/shaunjcammack/status/1298722815349149699/photo/1
  
  An easy template for recognizing the biases of your news source.
  
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  August 28, 2020 12:22pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    That’s a very good illustration about how narratives change from different perspective.
    
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    August 28, 2020 1:06pm
Tony Stuart

They say many a true word is spoken in jest, and this pictorial representation of our current border control system fits the bill perfectly!

https://twitter.com/Alan_Stewart_NZ/status/1298764280548868097
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August 28, 2020 8:41am
- Aliog
  
  Brutal but brilliant!
  
  15 1
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  August 28, 2020 8:52am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  at least the gates closed and signs up, thats still light years ahead of cindy
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:59am
- Bobba Fret
  
  If Twyford was the border MP the gate would be open as well!
  
  14 1
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  August 28, 2020 9:10am
- tf78
  
  Tony, did you see the “Flounder and Chips” further down the page.
  
  7 1
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  August 28, 2020 9:27am
- curry4me
  
  Tony Stuart. Cool, consider it stolen. Thanks for posting it.
  
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  August 28, 2020 12:27pm
Simon

“team of 5 million” General Haig, from 50 miles from the front, to British and commonwealth armies prior to the start of the Battle of the Somme.

“Go hard and early” General Haig day two Battle of the Somme.

“we have got this” General Haig end of the first week of Battle of the Somme.

“lets keep moving” General Haig end of the first month of the Battle of the Somme.

“i have done a little dance” General Haig end of the Battle of the Somme.
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August 28, 2020 8:42am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Did General Haig spend $16m of taxpayer money to get a PR company to develop some slogans for him?
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:53am
- virtualmark
  
  Simon, I’m sorry I can only give you one uptick. Help yourself to a whiskey from General Haig’s drinks cabinet.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:06am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Blackadder on Haig:
    
    another gargantuan effort to move his drinks cabinet six inches closer to Berlin”.
    
    Although, to be fair, Haig’s reputation has been much restored since the ‘Oh What a Lovely War’ days of the 1960s and 1970s.
    
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    August 28, 2020 12:25pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Haig was also noted for ordering the execution of NZ soldiers.
  I hope Cindy does not emulate that too.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:38am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I have to correct you there.
    Four of the five New Zealanders executed during the First World War were condemned by NZ courts martial, with their sentences confirmed by NZ commanders at divisional and corps level before Haig made the final decision.
    From memory, about 20-25 NZ soldiers were sentenced to death in France, and the vast majority of those sentences were commuted at Haig’s discretion.
    
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    August 28, 2020 12:28pm
    - virtualmark
      
      It’s a sad example of New Zealand’s wish to be seen as truer-than-true servants to England.
      
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      August 28, 2020 2:06pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I have to disagree there. General Russel was determined to make the NZ Division the best on the western front. A key factor in this was his constant demand for junior commanders to make the welfare of the troops their first priority.
        As for the relationship with England more generally, we need to remembers that this was a time when many New Zealanders called England ‘Home.’ England’s struggle was our struggle, and New Zealanders were determined to contribute to the maximum extent.
        
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        August 28, 2020 6:32pm
Simon

“Lets keep moving”

Jacinda Ardern just prior to moving Auckland into lockup level 3.

Party Vote Labour if you are as thick as pig shit.
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August 28, 2020 8:44am
- alex Masterley
  
  Jacinda, effed off to Wellington for the duration. she can effing stay there.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:39am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    That’s not very sporting or unifying….
    I demand you take her back….and stop dumping your rubbish on us, down here in Wellington.
    It’s enough we have to put up with Hipkins AND Robertson.
    
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    August 28, 2020 11:50am
    - alex Masterley
      
      Dont you want the trifecta?
      I am not in a sporting mood.
      
      4 1
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      August 28, 2020 1:10pm
All_on_Red

#Latest @TheEconomist Forecast:
Chance of winning the electoral college:
Biden 89%
Trump 11%
Chance of winning the most votes:
Biden 98%
Trump 2%
Estimated electoral college votes:
Biden 350
Trump 188

89%! Lol
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August 28, 2020 8:50am
- Kiwi_in_Paris
  
  I’m getting some serious money on those odds!
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:53am
- Kiwi_in_Paris
  
  Second thoughts, just checked William Hill, Trump is on even money….the reality. But Kayne West is paying 150 to 1!
  
  http://accounts.williamhill.com/bet/en-ie/betting/e/10187652/2020%2bUS%2bPresidential%2bElection.html
  
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  August 28, 2020 8:59am
- Scott
  
  The Democrats have started to notice that their tacit support of the rioting and looting is going to cost them in this upcoming election. Powerline has a good commentary on this issue –
  
  “The riots, looting and arson that have broken out across America, with tacit or open support from many Democratic politicians, have radically changed the outlook for November’s elections. I wrote last night about the organized assault on civilization that reigned last night in Minneapolis. Utterly incompetent governance at the state and local levels, combined with a sympathy for violent Marxists like those associated with Black Lives Matter, have led to a total breakdown of law and order. At least four businesses were set on fire.”
  https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/08/the-path-is-open-to-a-gop-sweep.php
  
  The local Republican candidate in Minneapolis is campaigning on restoring law and order. I just cannot imagine that ordinary Americans who are watching their businesses go up in smoke are going to vote for the Democrats this year?
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:12am
- virtualmark
  
  Red,
  
  The gap will close in the next 60 days – it always does with every election.
  
  And Biden probably needs a 5% lead in the general vote in order to be confident of taking the Electoral College.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:07am
  - Batman
    
    Or a couple of the five main swing states, bigger ones.
    
    Florida and one other will do it. Florida is currently a coin toss as usual.
    
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    August 28, 2020 10:30am
    - All_on_Red
      
      ?Florida is a certainty for Trump
      Do some research.
      
      6 2
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      August 28, 2020 11:25am
    - virtualmark
      
      I think the Biden campaign should spend heavily in Texas and Florida, but more as a move to force the Trump campaign to focus more attention on states it might otherwise have thought were in the bag.
      
      I think this Presidential election will be won in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin, maybe also in Arizona.
      
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      August 28, 2020 2:09pm
  - kloyd0306
    
    Amen.
    
    Labor Day (7 September) is a key date. Most voters don’t pay attention until after that date.
    
    After that, there will always be an October Surprise. Some scandal that the news media have held back for dramatic effect.
    
    Plenty to happen yet and the polls can still swing.
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:51pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  That would suit the Economist as it would leave a free run for the international monetarists.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:39am
chukar

WP ,
These regulations are created by people who ,don’t own the land ,pay the rates, taxes on it or have any real interest in it apart from pushing the self interest agendas created by the likes of Forest and Bird , Fish and Game plus others in the Conservation camp.

They don’t have to earn a living from the production of real products like food.
Having said that agriculture is to be admired and thanked for the work that they have already done in looking after their environment.
There has been stuff all financial support from the moaners, just more and more regulation and no financial help.

It is time to look at who the user in the user pays RMA really is.
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August 28, 2020 8:53am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  Its clear they just want hoops hurdles red tape and expense to drive folk from the land. only large enterprises will be able to make a profit, imo its a ploy to open up nz for more foriegn ownership of production eg. china and other multinational corporations
  who would want to buy unprofitable farms? not kiwis or their banks…
  
  100+ years ago farmers walked off the land due to rabbit plague making it unprofitable, the rabbits are under control and now govt buerocracy is nibbling away at that profit.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:25am
I remember when

I may have doubts about BLM marches, but the police letting idiots roam the street armed, is a little more clear cut!
While the gunman may have had a genuine fear for the situation he was in, being there in the first place was the problem.
Who would give a 17 year old a gun and send them into the streets when there were deep divides and rioting taking place?
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August 28, 2020 8:59am
- kowtow
  
  The Media Party have you all talking about the 17 yr old .
  
  David Dorn ignored .
  
  You’re being played by the Marxist Media.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:15am
- Ed Snack
  
  Certainly it seems unwise, but blame has to lie on the local government who withdrew from preventing violent riots, which caused people to come out to protect their property.
  
  Worth noting that this person had finished his “protecting” role and was in offensively heading home when he was attacked. One has to suspect that the intent was to provoke a shooting by the BLM/Antifa fascists in order to generate favourable media coverage.
  
  The shooter is charged with 1st degree murder, but on reviewing the evidence he has a pretty clear cut self defence plea. He was attacked, physically assaulted by people one of whom was (unlike the shooter who was legally allowed to open carry) illegally equipped with a firearm – illegal because they were a convicted felon. One of the dead hit the shooter with a skateboard and then grabbed the rifle by the muzzle and attempted to wrestle it away – Darwin Award material that.
  
  So when the authorities abdicate their lawful responsibilities, this is what happens, the police are their as much to protect the criminals a s to protect the victims. These deaths should be laid squarely at the feet of the Democrats as it is their current campaign to encourage violence and riots as part of their 2020 political campaign.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:04am
- theoldbloke
  
  I think you may be struggling wiith the english language “”who would give”
  Surely you mean the 17year old exercised his legal right? (if indeed it was legal.)
  
  “send them in to the streets” surely you mean “he excercised his right to freedom of choice and freedom of movement.”
  
  As a point ….at the humble age of 16 I legally possessed a .303 rifle which I lugged around town(ok so I used my fathers car) and yes I didnt shoot people, it was not fashionable back then.
  
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  August 28, 2020 2:42pm
greenfinger

I can’t wait for Megan to construct me my kiwibuild home, Hipkins and his overworked police force to issue fines on Monday morning to everyone of those 100,000 commuters around the country, The Princess to lecture the team of 5mn about wearing face covering, and Twatford to buy the 100,000 failing small businesses over because Labour screwed up in border testing.
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August 28, 2020 9:05am
- DeepBlue
  
  It isn’t going to be a good look for Jacinda when photos of maskless commuters pop up all over FB, and videos of the fisticuffs start between masked and non-masked on puplic transport.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:40am
  - Batman
    
    You’re thinking of America. This is New Zealand, where people actually understand how breathing spreads germs.
    
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    August 28, 2020 9:44am
    - thirteenstars
      
      No, this is New Zealand where people pay lip service to what’s politically correct and dob in their neighbours via anonymous snitching; where the police have the power to enter homes without warrants and deny citizens the right to remain silent.
      
      Americans understand this is a virus with a low mortality rate and are therefore getting on with their lives willing to accept the minor additional risk, and unwilling to give up their rights with the dumbed-down willingness of Kiwis.
      
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      August 28, 2020 9:59am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      Wait for the karens and other narks to publicly out and shame ppl who disobey.
      whats guna happen if someone removes their mask once seated? is it guna be like a schoolbus and the driver stops and refuses to leave until compliance?
      
      Im all for scraps and ppl standing their ground on this one its bullshit and all about control.
      
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      August 28, 2020 10:00am
    - Ed Snack
      
      If they wear masks then self evidently they have no understanding of the spread of viruses.
      
      Masks are essentially worthless to prevent the spread of this virus, their only use is virtue signalling and control.
      
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      August 28, 2020 10:06am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Is that the secret takeover program. Buy up NZ with money Robbo has got out of the Reserve Bank?
  Commie control breakthrough.
  
  Get the COL out now, it may be too late next time.
  ☑️☑️Capable, prosperity, integrity☑️☑️
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:45am
Bobba Fret

I notice the Herald are discounting 70% at the moment instead of $5.00 its only $1.70 for first 8 weeks.
Obviously they are having trouble getting people to subscribe for their rubbish!
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August 28, 2020 9:07am
- oldfella
  
  If the Herald opened up the feedback option on their stories, the mockery they’d attract would explain why they are struggling to attract paid punters.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:27am
All_on_Red

Pelosi wants to cancel the Debates
‘WASHINGTON — President Donald Trump has sunk so low that former Vice President Joe Biden should not even “legitimize” him by debating him in the presidential election, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Thursday. ‘
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/08/27/2020-election-pelosi-says-there-shouldnt-any-trump-biden-debates/5644923002/

I think she realises they are losing.
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August 28, 2020 9:07am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  Coincidence it comes just after trump said they should prove theyre not pumping old joe with performance enhancing drugs.
  
  the dems will do anything to stop the embarasment the debates will be.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:28am
- KevO'Brien
  
  How could they not loose with a rest home refugee?
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:47am
- Fletch
  
  The Dems know there is no way they can wheel Biden out to debate without his dementia on full show and the risk of him tripping up and saying something stupid. He is in his basement most of the time in hiding. Even when he and Kamala appeared to announce her as his running mate they took off right after and the press weren’t allowed to question them. Biden is even more of a Manchurian Candidate than Obama was. Biden’s an invalid who the extreme left of the party will control to their own ends.
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:37am
- amospicton
  
  All partisanship aside how on earth can the Dems allow Biden to run for President. Not only do they need to hide him away because the fragile thing might not be able to stand up to Trump in a debate (will they say the same to Putin or Xi when he’s president) but ehir game plan is almost certainly to have him win and then step aside for Harris. That is not democracy!
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:41am
- virtualmark
  
  The debates will happen. The debates are the key arenas for undecided voters to make up their minds, so neither campaign is going to miss them.
  
  Biden will be there.
  
  I expect he will do well against Trump. You guys seem convinced Biden has dementia, but the physical signs just aren’t there. He’s a stutterer, and a bit klutzy. But the dementia thing is just projection from the Trump campaign.
  
  I do think Trump has dementia. And I could point to *many* physical symptoms of that. The West Point ramp is a very simple one, but there are a lot of others.
  
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  August 28, 2020 2:20pm
  - virtualmark
    
    Simple examples on screen right now in Trump’s convention acceptance speech.
    
    * Watch the way he leans on the lecturn. He nearly always holds the lectern with one arm running along the edge of the lectern. If he does take both arms of the lectern then he balances his stomach against the back of the lectern. This is because his balance is shot.
    * When he turns from one teleprompter to the other he turns his whole body rather than just his head. He can’t easily turn his neck from side to side, and really can’t move it easily up and down (example: when he was watching the SpaceX launch and nearly tipped over backwards as the rocket rose up).
    
    Those physical signs are more useful indicators than what he says – but yes there is also a lot of word salad in this speech.
    
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    August 28, 2020 3:12pm
Lee C

“Let’s keep Moving…. The goalposts.”
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August 28, 2020 9:09am
I remember when

Sigmund Freud @8.47am
There seems to be a lot of options and it appears to be a matter of personal choice.
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August 28, 2020 9:09am
Grant

It took longer than I hoped, but it seems, reality is beginning to bite for many politicians.
Sadly, ours are apparently going to take a little longer to admit that they might have got it wrong.
https://www.aier.org/article/small-signs-of-hope-that-lockdons-could-soon-end/
G
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August 28, 2020 9:13am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Woodhouse’s original comments here: https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1320428/Coronavirus-news-lockdown-mistake-second-wave-Boris-Johnson
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:39am
- Cinematic
  
  Interesting read. It’s both depressing and amusing to watch the lockdown happy cabal currently calling the shots, as they stumble inevitably towards Sweden’s approach.
  
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  August 28, 2020 12:48pm
oldfella

Do they mean biological women? Just asking for J.K. Rowling… 😉

“Pregnant people and their healthcare team should be paying more attention to coffee consumption: that’s one of the messages of a new meta-analysis that builds the case that ingesting any amount of caffeine is associated with negative pregnancy outcomes. But studying coffee consumption is more complicated than you might think, and others in the field of maternal nutrition say it’s not time to start advising people who are pregnant to go cold turkey.”
https://www.popsci.com/story/health/pregnant-coffee-no-safe-level/
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August 28, 2020 9:23am
- KevO'Brien
  
  A lot of confusing argument about coffee consumption. I used to drink 50 cups of strong coffee a day. I still have 5+ .
  There are report of antioxidants and other goodies and that coffee is a great health adjunct. Certainly I’m keeping well.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:51am
  - lifesgood
    
    50!!!??? How on earth did you fit them in?
    
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    August 28, 2020 11:23am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Puketifinau now. Several cups an hour was possible.
      
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      August 28, 2020 1:12pm
Inandout

This kind of cruel confrontation by mostly white BLM protestors is despicable. This is Washington of course, which is rather like Wellington with swathes of public servants.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2020/08/25/dc-protesters-blm-diner-confrontation/
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August 28, 2020 9:30am
- Classic Liberal
  
  They are behaving like absolute fascists. Why can’t they see that?
  
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  August 28, 2020 1:20pm
I remember when

Manawatu Standard: “New road leads to court case”.
The new highway between Manawatu and Hawkes Bay has reached an important milestone as court hearing about its resource consent begins.
The case has gone direct to the Environment Court because of likelihood of an appeal, which would delay construction by about a year.
The agency wants to start construction as soon as possible.
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August 28, 2020 9:37am
plc

I have never owned or wanted to own a gun. I have friends that go hunting and obviously enjoy it as a pastime.

Post the Mosque shooting, I understand that high powered assault rifles were banned in New Zealand. That obviously reduced hunting avenues for hunters that were using those weapons.

What I don’t understand are the comments I see from time to time on Kiwiblog that the banning of those weapons makes NZ a less safe place.

I appreciate that their banning may not make NZ any safer but I don’t see how it makes it more dangerous.

Can someone shed some light?
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August 28, 2020 9:40am
- dave_c_
  
  You just need to consider the stockpiles of such weaponry that still exist. The gun buy back was an abject failure. It has left untold weapon types that were meant ot be handed in, in the hands of those who would be prepared to use them.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:53am
  - plc
    
    But just because some weren’t handled in,doesn’t mean NZ is more dangerous.
    
    I’m not saying the buyback made NZ safer, just that it didn’t make it more dangerous.
    
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    August 28, 2020 10:16am
    - Tall Man
      
      One extrapolation is that X firearms were legally owned by “good” citizens and Y firearms were owned by “bad” citizens.
      
      The “good” citizens complied and handed many firearms in which reduced the size of X whereas the “bad” citizens did not so have now altered the ratio of X to Y and therefore the ratio of “good” owners to “bad” owners 😉
      
      Surely that must impact on the general safety of New Zealand…….
      
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      August 28, 2020 11:23am
      - plc
        
        No because the impact of each group is unrelated….until you show causality between them.
        
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        August 28, 2020 2:00pm
  - GJM
    
    And now that 11 shot .22 is illegal, it will not be kept secure in a safe, but hidden out of sight. If it goes missing, it won’t be reported. The only buyer is probably a criminal, or at least that market has opened up
    
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    August 29, 2020 4:10pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Because it has forced some otherwise legal gunowners to go underground (literally in some cases with people burying their guns).
  Those with autos they wanted to sell for what they’re worth could no longer do so legally and some of those guns have inevitably ended up on the black market. This is especially relevant with ammo which the Government was wanting to steal for no compensation.
  Sure this stuff is illegal, but it’s dishonest to pretend it didn’t happen.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:54am
- cmm
  
  The banning did not just ban “assault rifles”, but also many other classes of firearms too such as lever action and pump shotguns.
  
  The most common “assault rifle” in .223/5.56 is actually pretty useless for hunting most of the time (unless you’re yahoo-ing off the back of a ute for wallaby or some such).
  
  The reduction in safety comes not so much from the removal of “assualt rifles”, but the general disarming of law abiding people.
  
  Remember that the criminals and gangs are not handing their guns in. This skews the power balance in favour of the criminals.
  
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  August 28, 2020 9:58am
  - Tall Man
    
    CMM, it is illegal to use a firearm for self defense in NZ in most situations and the use of it will certainly lead to a prosecution.
    
    I can only recall a couple of instances where the prosecution led to a favourable outcome for the person defending himself.
    
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    August 28, 2020 10:00am
    - cmm
      
      No it is not illegal to use a firearm for self defense.
      
      It is illegal to own a firearm for the purpose of self defense.
      
      Big difference.
      
      If your bunny gun ends up being used for self defense, well so be it.
      
      Of course if you do end up using a firearm for self defense then you better have a really good reason.
      
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      August 28, 2020 10:26am
      - Tall Man
        
        ” in most situations “
        
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        August 28, 2020 11:17am
      - cmm
        
        ” in most situations “
        
        I suppose it comes down to what we mean by self defense.
        
        If someone is tagging my postbox I’m not going to shoot him, but if someone is breaking down the door to come inside my house and I think they are a real threat to my wife/kids or myself then I will unleash everything I can to stop them. If they are persistent and it gets as far as deadly force so be it.
        
        Sure’ I’d phone the cops and hand the situation over to them if they can make it on time.
        
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        August 28, 2020 12:09pm
  - plc
    
    But the weapons that were handled in weren’t being used for self defense.
    
    And if that was the intention surely it’s better to have them taken out of the hands of people who were prepared to use them for that?
    
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    August 28, 2020 10:14am
    - cmm
      
      Nobody is allowed to own firearms for self defense, but the mere fact that there are law abiding people who have guns does limit what gang people can do to some extent.
      
      I am not suggesting that there should be a power struggle between gangs and armed citizens, merely saying that the more gangs get armed and the less armed law abiding people are, the more gangs will act with impunity.
      
      “And if that was the intention surely it’s better to have them taken out of the hands of people who were prepared to use them for that?”
      
      Why? A person has a right to defend themselves and those under their care from attack. If a bunch of gang members breaks down your door and start beating up your family are you not prepared to defend yourself? Would you not use any means available to you – including your rabbit hunting shotgun if you had one?
      
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      August 28, 2020 10:42am
      - plc
        
        How many law abiding citizens have their doors broken down by gang members? I’d suggest it is the “bad’ eating their own.
        
        Where it may be an issue is in relation to the robbery of dairies/off licences. However I don’t think the arming of their owners necessarily makes NZ safer. In fact, I’d argue the opposite.
        
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        August 28, 2020 2:10pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Banning weapons does not miraculously make them no longer exist, those weapons usually tend to find themselves shifted to the hands of criminal gangs.
  And re, the ridiculous amnesty and buyback charade, instead of handing in the just now “illegal” magazine extension, an acquaintance was given $1200 from the cops for a shotgun that costs $800 and is still legal to buy.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:01am
  - plc
    
    The ones that were handed in as part of the buyback scheme were destroyed….not sure how they find their way into the hands of criminal gangs.
    
    It is zero sum game….if handed in weapons are destroyed there are less weapons in public hands
    
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    August 28, 2020 10:23am
    - Tall Man
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/112305612/eight-of-11-firearms-stolen-from-palmerston-north-police-station-recovered
      
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/387853/police-hunt-for-man-who-stole-11-firearms-from-palmerston-north-police-station
      
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      August 28, 2020 11:16am
      - plc
        
        I suspected that would come up but I don’t think it disproves the general premise.
        
        You’d have to demonstrate those three weapons were then sold on to “bad” owners.
        
        it shows incompetence in execution, but was a general exception.
        
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        August 28, 2020 2:05pm
    - GJM
      
      Except everyone spent their Jacindabucks, being 70% of the value on new guns. Where before, my AR had 7 shots, it has been replaced with 10 shot bolt action using the same magazines. No difference in terms of aimed fire and shots on target, except I now reload less often.
      
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      August 29, 2020 4:14pm
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    yup, you could go and buy a new $90 suppressor and the govt buyback paid $300 for them many of my mates made a handsome profit.
    quite a few other loopholes/exploits aswell, $10 imported mags they paid 100 for.
    
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    August 28, 2020 12:41pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  Many of the newly prohibited firearms have now been hiden and likely enter the blackmarket and criminal hands.
  
  only 23-27% were handed in so another massive CoL failure, their plans to introduce gun register is effectively useless as theres at least a 100k+ firearms that will be invisible to the system.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:06am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  I’ll give you one example.
  
  My “illegal” gun (held more than ten bullets) had a tubular magazine that, when empty, required about one minute to reload, one shell at a time.
  
  The new “legal” replacement holds ten bullets in a clip that takes three seconds to reload.
  
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  August 28, 2020 12:59pm
Prince

Next week, if we start hearing of Covid cases in Bluff, Atholl, Dunedin, Christchurch, Wellington, Queenstown, New Plymouth, but they are all linked to the ‘Auckland Cluster’, will we be satisfied the virus is contained ?
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August 28, 2020 9:53am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  only if the genome is a match!
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:06am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  MSM already has that scenario covered – it’ll be Judith Collins’ fault for bullying Cindy too much to remove lockdowns too early…
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:13am
Tall Man

“What I don’t understand are the comments I see from time to time on Kiwiblog that the banning of those weapons makes NZ a less safe place.”

Neither do I but perhaps those commenters see it as a start of the erosion of civil rights. Maybe certain firearms todays, certain vehicles tomorrow and maybe an attack on other property ownership rights tomorrow.

I am a firearm owner and have been for many many years and previously owned a now banned firearm but had reliquished it quite a few years before tarrant did what he did.
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August 28, 2020 9:58am
- plc
  
  I understand the civil rights argument, and accept it might have some merit.
  
  What I don’t necessarily accept is that the buyback has made NZ more dangerous.
  
  In Victorian times, firearms ownership may have been a self-defense issue but I would suggest that had died out largely post 1890.
  
  The idea of having any firearm for self defense in New Zealand in the 21st century would appear to be a recently imported view (perhaps from countries with widespread firearms ownership). Certainly the past 100 years in NZ suggest little evidence to rationalise the need for weapons for self-defense. On that basis a reduction in weapons can’t make NZ more dangerous, surely?
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:33am
  - Tall Man
    
    A short barrelled 5 + 1 semi auto shotgun is as effective deterent in your hallway as a .223 semi with a 15 shot mag ….. in my opinion.
    
    https://www.aptnnews.ca/national-news/indigenous-hunters-excluded-from-ottawas-assault-weapons-ban-under-section-35/
    
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    August 28, 2020 11:13am
    - MCos
      
      My Thai brother in law’s niece and her husband had a firearm in the house for self defence.
      He got pissed one night and killed her . . . .
      
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      August 28, 2020 2:04pm
Sofia

Winston Peters pushes for Australia to ‘take this terrorist home’
Australian Prime Minister Scott Morrison said that normal practice was that criminals convicted of offences serve their sentences in that jurisdiction. “No request has been made to Australia for that to be any different.”

Is this just another claim by Winston Peters to acquire a headline but offer nothing of substance on the issue.
Has Winston discussed the matter at all with Ardern or Justice Minister Andrew Little, and does Winston think any request would be considered by Morrison, without an entire negotiation of Australian / New Zealand prisoner or ex-prisoner policy being involved?
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August 28, 2020 10:01am
- cmm
  
  Winston just sounded off with something that sounds popular but knows he can’t deliver on.
  
  Just like his “I’ll be the first into Pike” bullshit.
  
  There is no current legal framework to support sending Tarrant to Australia. NZ does not have an agreement with Australia, and under Australian law the prisoner cannot be forced to relocate – the prisoner has to want to go.
  
  As the law currently stands Tarrant would have to be released on arrival in Oz.
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:31am
  - fernglas
    
    To me it’s a sovereign issue. You do the crime in New Zealand, you do the time in New Zealand.
    
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    August 28, 2020 11:12am
- herb1
  
  Scott Morrison has just said he is open to discussions about Tarrant serving his sentence in Australia. Our dim witted PM should have shut down that conversation before it started.
  She’s regularly attacked Australia for sending our criminals back , and now by starting this conversation , would look hypocritical if she ever complained again about Aussie sending our finest back. Aside from that there are 900 Kiwis serving time in Australian jails. Im sure it would cost more to jail them here than one Tarrant , but since Labour were elected I’ve had to question my understanding of economics
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:34am
  - cmm
    
    Is this really the sort of deal two leaders can make over a Facebook chat?
    
    This would surely have to go through both Australian and NZ parliaments to create a sound legal framework for being able to do this.
    
    Australia has a law to repatriate prisoners form selected countries (currently excluding NZ). Adding NZ would be a trivial change for them.
    
    However the Australian law requires the consent of the prisoner being transferred. They can’t be forced into it. Surely that would be a relatively big change since this gets all Human Rightsy.
    
    Then NZ would have to enact prisoner export legislation – ones that are even more draconian than current Australian laws because they’d be able to force prisoners to go against their will.
    
    The Prime Minister for Manus Island won’t want to put her can opener anywhere near that.
    
    Then with the rules changing, Tarrant would have reasonable grounds to make a bunch of appeals….
    
    So, of course, it is really just Peters and ScoMo trolling Little Miss Stampy-foot.
    
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    August 28, 2020 12:20pm
I remember when

The economy is ‘over rated’ and not that important.
It will remain that way until the Government stops feeding money into the system.
At that stage the ‘lack of the need for a financial system’ will become obvious.
Everyone will become equal, because money will be taken from those that have it and given to those that don’t. Great new, as yet unimagined, industries will appear and naturally bloom and prosper.
Pollution will disappear, CO2 level will drop to pre-industrial levels and the rivers and lakes will be full of swimmers.
Everyone will be vegetarian (or vegan), nitrogen will be fixed by clover and soil will be left fallow to rejuvenate.
Animals will live happy lives free from restraint and retire to ‘Old Animal’ homes for their final days.
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August 28, 2020 10:22am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Agree but it will definitely be vegan – not vegetarian.
  
  We will be allowed to marry our pets too, because – after all – they are the only sentient beings that offer and return unconditional true love…
  
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  August 28, 2020 10:35am
  - cmm
    
    No you won’t be allowed pets. That’s a form of slavery.
    
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    August 28, 2020 12:21pm
- Catgurl13
  
  Cindy will come to her senses and realise she is doing a really bad job, so will step down without being asked too lol?
  
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  August 28, 2020 4:16pm
Aunty

Who else thinks that the sustained Cyberattack on New Zealand’s stock exchange, shutting it down, is a State-sponsored effort? Russian maybe, or Chinese, or North Korean?

This has the feeling that it is an effort to disrupt the trading for a short period of a small and unimportant western stock exchange to test the feasibility of mounting a much larger attack on a major international exchange and to gather intelligence on the response.

China getting prepared for war? Xi Jinping is not popular at home and is increasingly coming under a lot of pressure. This is one of the oldest tactics in the book when nationalist despots start to fail.
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August 28, 2020 10:43am
Maggy Wassilieff

Stock exchange down again
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/424654/nzx-crashes-for-fourth-day-in-a-row
16 1
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August 28, 2020 10:45am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Qui bono? Is this an attempt to manipulate stock prices, or is it a demonstration of power by some state actor – like Chinese attacks on Australia earlier in the year. What’s the point of such an attack if people don’t know who you are (or is the message for the NZ govt who perhaps do know)
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:00am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Trump may have started a subtle kickback by China. They have more experience and longevity. No matter what we may think about their internal politics and society we will not change them.
    They are particularly smart at IT. Don’t be surprised if they use it against outsiders who criticise.
    
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    August 28, 2020 1:25pm
    - oldfella
      
      And remember: ‘China is asshole!’
      
      0 1
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      August 28, 2020 4:48pm
- Fletch
  
  As someone else said on Facebook, they should be using a service like Cloudflare that protects against such attacks.
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:42am
igm

-1
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August 28, 2020 10:47am
Rusty

I wonder if our PM and her cronies are practicing a form of fabian socialism on us?
Set an objective, don’t listen to anyone who disagrees, if people suffer convince yourself/them its temporary, and if your objective does fail in the end, blame the people who disagreed with you.
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August 28, 2020 11:10am
- Gravelroad
  
  I know a chap here who used to campaign against the Fabian Society mantra every chance he got.
  A lot of people didn’t know anything about the Fabians, so took no notice or reckoned he was a nutter.
  Some who did know about them, said such cynical extremism could not happen here in this day and age.
  Am starting to think he was on to something……..
  
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  August 28, 2020 11:47am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Our lot are worse. Ardern’s full commo and is preparing NZ for the takeover by stealth.
  We dare not let them have a second term. Compulsory incarceration on Auckland Island?
  
  8 2
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  August 28, 2020 1:20pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Takeover by stealth? I reckon it pretty overt, they can’t help themselves. It’s the Modern Labour way.
    
    4 2
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    August 28, 2020 1:41pm
SB2

cmm, was it necssary for you to drag Nelson Mandela into the Day of sentencing thread? When you must know that your apartheid regime was resonsible for at least 20,,000 murders and assassinations of real or imagined opponents of that regime
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August 28, 2020 11:22am
- Nostradamus
  
  SB2:
  
  You made an ill-considered comment on that thread too:
  
  Life with out parole is the only fair and just result. The one thing I”m sorry about is the fact that many ex SS officers involved in the murdering of Jews and others were sentenced for much less,
  
  12 2
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  August 28, 2020 12:11pm
  - SB2
    
    Nostadamus , the comment was not ill-considered . The facts are many SS got off scot-free for war crimes aginst Jews , Roma etc.
    
    They all deserved at least the same as Tarrant
    
    That is a fact!
    
    What Nelson Mandela had to do with the Christchurch Mosque killings is beyond me.
    
    But perhaps you can enlighten?
    
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    August 28, 2020 12:35pm
    - Nostradamus
      
      SB:
      
      It’s not complicated. You asked CMM if it was “necessary” for him to “drag” another topic into the sentencing thread. Yet, on that same thread, you made a passing comparison with “ex SS officers involved in the murdering of Jews and others”. My point was that, for a tragic event in New Zealand criminal history, you could perhaps have left out a comparison along the lines that you’ve criticised CMM for.
      
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      August 28, 2020 12:54pm
      - cmm
        
        ANd not just critisized me, but criticised me for something I did not do.
        
        old skool reactionary introduced Mandela to the thread – not me.
        
        4 0
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        August 28, 2020 5:47pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The Brits and Yanks were no angels either when it came to retaliation. Both sides lose in a war.
      
      3 2
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      August 28, 2020 1:18pm
- cmm
  
  SB2: ” your apartheid regime”
  
  Why do you call it MY apartheid regime?
  
  It is no more MY apartheid regime than it is yours.
  
  As you very well know, because we have had this discussion many times before, I am not a South African. I am a New Zealander and a Canadian.
  
  That I started off as a South African was not a choice, it was an accident of birth and something I corrected when I had opportunity to do so.
  
  Certainly, yes, the “apartheid regime” did kill some people in South Africa, but that number is dwarfed by the black-on-black violence (or is it now Black-on-Black these days??) that was mostly fueled by political agitation and weaponry brought into South Africa by Mandela’s crowd.
  
  One could argue that that apartheid regime saved far more Black lives than it killed.
  
  Indeed, White South Africans (including myself at the time) were called up to do peacekeeping duties in the townships for up to 3 months a year. The primary goal of those was to stop the Black-on-Black violence.
  
  Although Mandela was incarcerated for much of this period he still had a lot of influence and played a massive part in this violence.
  
  And, because we’ve been through this many, many, times before. I am not an “apartheid apologist”. I do not think apartheid was all chocolates and roses.
  
  14 1
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  August 28, 2020 12:43pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I do hope you have brought up this matter with the moderators.
    
    Stephieboy has a habit of smearing other posters on KB with his comments.
    
    8 1
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    August 28, 2020 3:02pm
- cmm
  
  SB2: By the way I did not drag Nelson Mandela into the thread. Someone else did,
  
  3 1
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  August 28, 2020 5:45pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Stephieboy doesn’t read posts in context… he just sights someone’s name and lets off his brain farts.
    
    3 1
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    August 28, 2020 6:06pm
Dave Mann

A short story

Passing through A&E on my way to interview Dr I McHunt, the new Commissar of People’s Health, I was struck by the eerie quiet in what was once one of the country’s busiest Emergency Departments. The entry was via A&E because Dr McHunt’s sparkling new offices occupied the space formerly known as the Clinical Decision Unit which used to be an integral part of the ED.

I had a lot of questions to ask, and I started by asking Dr McHunt what had happened to the old Clinical Decision Unit and what medical expertise he brought to his newly created position.

“My background is in modelling and communication, rather than medicine per se” he replied, “and as a successful climate modeller, my career progression through Covid-19 modelling to this exciting new position was a natural development.”

I asked the good doctor why the hospital seemed to be empty and he quickly put me straight and my doubts were instantly laid to rest.

“In the new Covid environment, we don’t encourage our medical staff to continue focusing on the old morbidities like heart disease, cancer, stroke and all that nonsense.” he beamed, “The last thing we want right now is people presenting with all their abdominal pains, loss of consciousness and unexplained bleeding, because that only takes up vital resources which are needed in the fight against the Coronavirus.”

Exploring further, I politely pressed him about the clinical decisions and treatments which used to be made where his new office suite now stands. Dr McHunt patiently explained that “We don’t find it useful to make clinical decisions any longer. The process has been considerably simplified.”

“How does the new ED protocol work now?” I asked, eager to find out out more.

“Well, obviously we can’t afford to clog up the health system with all all these old fashioned medical issues, so we encourage potential patients to simply stay away in the first instance.” explained the doctor patiently, as if speaking to a child.

“If people insist on coming to hospital,” he continued “patients are immediately triaged and anybody experiencing, for example, bleeding, lack of consciousness or abnormal pain is quickly fast tracked into our new ASU.” he replied, nodding towards the beautiful new Assisted Suicide Unit across the hallway “This way we can free up vital resources which are needed to assist the government’s exciting new Medico-Political Action Framework. It’s the New Normal.”

I closed the interview with thanks and as the guard escorted me through the empty hospital, I marvelled at the imagination and sheer forward thinking which drives our new system and has freed up our medical resources so admirably.

I asked myself why western medicine would continue to focus on things like heart disease, cancer, stroke, kidney and liver failure etc when it is much more efficient to simply invent an imaginary medical emergency which can so easily be dealt with by controlled reporting and can be changed at any time?

I reflected how fortunate we are to be in the capable hands of Dr McHunt and his team. Then I remembered that I had omitted to ask him about the Bloomfield Artificial Intelligence Initiative which has had such a successful initial trial in recent months….. but that would have to wait for another interview at another time.
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August 28, 2020 11:23am
- Catgurl13
  
  Dr McHunt lol
  
  4 1
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  August 28, 2020 4:30pm
Jack5

Jobs drying up overseas …

Singapore, popular with expatriates, including New Zealanders, is beginning to shut out foreign workers.

The island republic is in a serious recession, with its second-quarter GDP expected to fall 12.6 per cent on th previous second quarter. Singapore spent most of the second quarter in lockdown against Wuhan flu.

The South China Post cites, as an example of the work market tightening, a New Zealand nurse about to return home after more than 200 failed job applications.

The Singapore Government is promoting hiring locals to the extent of drawing up a list of nearly 50 companies it believes have discriminated against local job applicants.

https://www.scmp.com/news/asia/southeast-asia/article/3099053/singapore-job-markets-tightens-expats-are-feeling-squeeze
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August 28, 2020 11:26am
JibberJabber

The White privilege of a White supremacist,

https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1299112023490322433
7 2
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August 28, 2020 11:48am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpUkGSXN5sw
The US Election is Over!

The Dems think they’ll win in a landslide. Just like
they did in 2016. They’re betting on Trojan horse
Joe Biden to do it. Ignore the aggregate polls.
peaceful riots are driving voters into President
Trumps arms. The incumbent is doing better
than the challenger. There is a huge enthusiasm
gap. Trump has got more primary votes. Each
time this happens, there’s a landslide. Black
conservatives at the RNC have caused a Trump bump.
I guess if President Trump wins, there will be a temporary rise in sea levels due to all the liberal tears.
15 2
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August 28, 2020 11:56am
- All_on_Red
  
  Now now my little Lamb Korma, let’s not be too confident
  Plenty of time to go yet
  
  1 4
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  August 28, 2020 2:16pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Check out the ‘boatillas’ and then tell me Biden will win. I only wish I could be out there with them in my boat
  
  3 2
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  August 28, 2020 4:01pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Look at that, a downticker who has never even had a swimming pool float.
    
    2 1
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    August 28, 2020 6:27pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kx4Nv0J8ADk
India Uniting Japan and Russia.

India is helping bring Russia, and India together. They
have a lot of international good will. Japan is ready
to join a trilateral effort involving the Coral Islands.
They’ve Russian controlled since 1945. China is a bigger
threat, and is more hawkish. Russia despises China.
They have acrimonious disputes of their own. India wants
to use improved relations between Japan and Russia to
thwart China. What’s not to like?
8 2
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August 28, 2020 11:57am
Fletch

More reporting by the Daily Mail. Jacob Blake had a knife in his hand when he was shot. The police tried to taser him first but it didn’t work…

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8668375/Jacob-Blake-KNIFE-cops-shot-says-Wisconsin-AG.html

His mother doesn’t want destruction in her son’s name –

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/08/25/jacob-blake-mother-says-son-doesnt-want-destruction-kenosha/3437759001/
9 2
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August 28, 2020 11:57am
- Fletch
  
  Correction – the police recovered a knife from the floor of his car. He didn’t have it in his hand.
  
  2 2
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  August 28, 2020 2:56pm
Fletch

Scientists in China find Covid-19 in a long-abandoned apartment. Say a possible spreader is “fecal aerosol plumes” that can waft up through the pipes from apartments below.

https://fortune.com/2020/08/26/coronavirus-covid-toilet-fecal-aerosol-plume-vacant-apartment-spread/
10 2
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August 28, 2020 12:05pm
- Frank the tank
  
  Quick race and tell St Ash, Cindy and Squealer – this could be the source of the Wu Flu ‘immaculate conception’ in NZ.
  
  Move aside frozen chicken wings
  
  6 2
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  August 28, 2020 12:45pm
- wimpston peeeders
  
  once again put your mask on and fart, if you can smell the fecal aerosols youre f**ked.
  
  13 2
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  August 28, 2020 12:50pm
- cmm
  
  In a 25 second Google search I could not find the size of fart aerosols, but I did find a paper on farm aerosols.
  ” Super-μm particles of various types were emitted from the stables and adjacent facilities related to farming activities.”.
  
  A virus is tiny compared to that (less than 100nm) and a 2 um aerosol can contain tens of thousands of the little buggers in one aerosol droplet.
  
  Hint: If you can smell it, you’re getting more than 1 aerosol droplet attaching to your smelling receptors. You’re potentially getting millions of viruses.
  
  3 1
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  August 28, 2020 2:29pm
Maggie Pie

Just picked up my car after having its first service
As the Customer Liaison Manager handed me the key he said, “…..and one of the Techs found this Ball Peen Hammer under the front seat”.
Told him i was doing a Panel Beating apprenticeship.

You know that look you get when people think …. “lying little bitch” 😀
9 2
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August 28, 2020 1:41pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Steering wheel lock is just as effective, and it lives under the seat
  
  5 2
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  August 28, 2020 4:03pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    I think its only people who drive Jap Imports that use those.
    
    4 1
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    August 28, 2020 4:36pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      But but but, it’s a Landcruiser
      
      4 2
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      August 28, 2020 5:44pm
- Fletch
  
  A guy I knew used to keep a small bat under his seat. The same shape as a baseball bat, but he’d carved it smaller.
  
  4 2
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  August 28, 2020 4:19pm
  - cmm
    
    Paint it green and call it a mere. They won’t touch you.
    
    5 1
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    August 28, 2020 8:18pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Now we’re talking
      
      0 0
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      August 29, 2020 9:32am
- cmm
  
  For unsticking sticky beaks right?
  
  3 1
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  August 28, 2020 8:17pm
Fletch

John Oliver insults a town, so the town’s mayor names a sewage plant after him. “It’s full of crap like you.” ?

HBO comic John Oliver attacked the city of Danbury, Connecticut, recently, ranting, “If you’re going to forget a town in Connecticut, why not forget Danbury? Because, and this is true, f*** Danbury!”

Oliver then cited its “charming railway museum” and “historic Hearthstone Castle” before sniping, “Danbury, Connecticut can eat my whole a**.” He added, “If you’re from there, you have a standing invite to come get a thrashing from John Oliver, children included, f*** you.”

On Saturday, the GOP mayor of Danbury got even, announcing on Facebook that the city’s sewage plant would be renamed the “John Oliver Memorial Sewer Plant” because “it’s full of crap like you.”

Mayor Mark Boughton, standing in front of the plant, stated:

Hi. I’m Mayor Mark Boughton of the city of Danbury, Connecticut. You know, last week John Oliver had us on his show, and he pointed three important points of interest of Danbury: one, was our wonderful railway museum, and we agree with that; two, was our great castle, and we certainly agree with that, and then three, was that we were once ranked as the number two city in the United States of America. And of course, we agree with that.

But today, I’m proud to announce our fourth point of interest: behind me, you’ll see the City of Danbury sewer plant. We are going to rename it the John Oliver Memorial Sewer Plant. Why? Because it’s full of crap just like you, John. And, oh, by the way, thanks for showing that Amazon video; we did get Amazon here in Danbury.

https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-gop-mayor-gets-even-with-hbo-comic-renames-sewage-plant-after-him
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August 28, 2020 2:13pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I seem to recall Palmerston North naming its rubbish dump after John Cleese after he said something along the lines of: “If you’re thinking of killing yourself but not quite, a night in Palmerston North should do the trick,”
  
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  August 28, 2020 6:39pm
Fletch

Musical break. Musicians from all around the world singing, The Weight. Almost a ‘lockdown song’ although it was released a year ago. Features Robbie Robertson on guitar, Ringo Starr on drums, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=ph1GU1qQ1zQ
5 1
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August 28, 2020 3:26pm
greenfinger

Scott Morrison first thought was Xmas must have come early this year after Winnie and his girlfriend PM said they would look to send the Chch gunman back to Australia. “We’ll take one back if you take 1,200 of yours back”. Fair dinkum?
3 1
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August 28, 2020 3:34pm
RW Capitalist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN3z3eSVG7A
Feel free to replace the names with Jacinda and The Labour Party.
3 2
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August 28, 2020 3:47pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  The last 2 jokes modified
  3 dogs meet, during the cold war
  an american dog
  a polish dog
  a russian dog
  the american dog said, If you bark long enough in my country, someone gives you meat.
  The polish dog said..”what’s meat?”
  The Russian dog said…”what’s bark”
  Seems Jacinda is “moving” us in this direction.
  2 Russian men (in the cold war era) are Talking.
  One says to the other, is this the “Full” communism. The other replies…no it’ll get a lot worse.
  
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  August 28, 2020 3:59pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Jamie-Lee Ross in trouble?
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/jami-lee-ross-referred-to-privileges-committee-over-anti-vax-video
10 0
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August 28, 2020 3:50pm
- Kiwi_in_Paris
  
  Doesn’t sound like he is worried. Cindy is waking up to the fact that Billy T and Jamie are able to, and are going to broadcast all her naughtiness, and that they do have quite an audience. Look how bias ONE NEWS was, talk about controlled owned media. China would be impressed, maybe even North Korea:
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9fbGFv80Zs
  
  0 2
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  August 29, 2020 3:19am
- Kiwi_in_Paris
  
  Having said that though, her advisors must be slipping, as they missed a couple of well-known rules:
  
  1. No publicity is bad publicity;
  2. Trying to ban something from the internet always ends up in it getting an exponentially higher number of views. At the end of the day, the words were said.
  
  Mark my words, karma will get Cindy eventually. Although psychopaths train how to escape it, they can never overcome it for long.
  
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  August 29, 2020 3:47am
Maggy Wassilieff

Surprise, surprise..

Racism, sexism, misconduct…

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/aug/27/boss-vows-to-tackle-misconduct-claims-at-un-green-climate-fund
7 1
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August 28, 2020 3:59pm
Benedict Yu

This just reinforces how stupid the police can be:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/122592414/zero-tolerance-on-speeding-drivers-all-year-round-as-cops-get-tough-on-motorists

For a start – unless you have a GPS based digital display, your speedometer is unlikely to be accurate outside of 5%. So you will turn drivers into paranoid people constantly staring at their speedometers instead of driving the car.

I recently drove to Queenstown and back. I am confident that driving at (say) 110 kmh on those straight Canterbury roads in a modern car is perfectly safe. On the other hand, I see these behaviours all the time, and they are NOT safe, and I do not see any aggressive policing:

– overtaking on yellow lines
– driving agressively, and tail gating
– driving at highway speeds and talking on the phone or eating a pie
– hogging the right hand lane of the motorway at 90 kmh (despite this being unlawful)
– driving a campervan and not pulling over when there are 20 cars behind you
…
Anyway long live radar detectors.

BY
12 2
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August 28, 2020 4:50pm
- Jack5
  
  It’s a tax on the majority of citizens who are generally law abiding.
  
  Pinging them for being slightly over the speed limit helps finance the justice system. These motorists typically are honest folk who pay their fines.
  
  Meanwhile, fines for other offences imposed on the ratbag section of society are often written off as non-collectible. The State thus, each year, forgives these folk tens of millions dollars worth of fines.
  
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  August 28, 2020 7:38pm
I remember when

Massey University have done a considerable amount of testing, to ascertain the volume of CO2 produce because of animal flatulence.
Perhaps they have some ideas on ‘fecal aerosol plumes’.
The tail feathers of geese would seem to be a positive starting point!
3 2
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August 28, 2020 4:50pm
greybeard

https://nzawards.org.nz/nominate/
1. Michael Morrah
2. Justice Mander
3 1
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August 28, 2020 4:56pm
tranquil

More cause to laugh at the “but the science is settled” nonsense about climate –

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/08/27/new-confirmation-that-climate-models-overstate-atmospheric-warming/

Quote – “Two new peer-reviewed papers from independent teams confirm that climate models overstate atmospheric warming and the problem has gotten **worse** over time, not better.
8 1
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August 28, 2020 6:35pm

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