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September 30, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 30 September 2020

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General Debate

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krazykiwi

The other day mikenmildagain had a crack at Sigmund Freud on account of his attending a protest. Mikenmildagain denigrated/smeared with this nasty little snipe:

And good luck to all your fellow anti-vaxxers, 1080 ‘activists’, 5G alarmists, and other assorted loonies

Yes, that’s right. Being concerned about faux-science justified suspension of your civil liberties by decree makes one a loony, a anti-vaxxers, 1080 ‘activists’, 5G alarmist.

So to help mikenmildagain with his pre-school level intellect, and with his manicured, chihuahua-like aggression, I’ve been looking for other examples. He clearly wants opportunities to get those deciduous teeth of his into as many loonies as possible.

First up, here’s a bunch that look bite-sized. It consists of 590 medical doctors and 1671 medically trained health professionals in Belgium, who have signed an Open letter from medical doctors and health professionals to all Belgian authorities and all Belgian media. It begins:

September 5th 2020

We, Belgian doctors and health professionals, wish to express our serious concern about the evolution of the situation in the recent months surrounding the outbreak of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. We call on politicians to be independently and critically informed in the decision-making process and in the compulsory implementation of corona-measures. We ask for an open debate, where all experts are represented without any form of censorship. After the initial panic surrounding covid-19, the objective facts now show a completely different picture – there is no medical justification for any emergency policy anymore.

The current crisis management has become totally disproportionate and causes more damage than it does any good.

We call for an end to all measures and ask for an immediate restoration of our normal democratic governance and legal structures and of all our civil liberties.

[[ … continues .. ]]

While mikenmildagain gums away on this, the rest of us can be assured that we’re not the only ones who believe the legitimate Covid-19 epidemic is now being used to front a monumental scam in support of a Great Reset of free societies. We must resist this insidiousness. We owe as much to our children and grandchildren.
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September 30, 2020 8:00am
- Simon
  
  Great post. But a little hard on MM. I read his same comments in msm a few days earlier.
  
  Mikeinmild opinions are assigned to him by MSM and the left. He is repeating what he has been spoon fed.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:18am
- fernglas
  
  You don’t need to attack dear old Mike to make your point. It’s not just Belgian doctors who have seen through the bullshit. There was a similar letter from a bunch of Autralian doctors as well. If only some of ours were prepared to face the consequences of applying some intellectual rigour to this virus we might see a bit of common sense brought to the debate.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:22am
- kowtow
  
  Here’s another expert to add to that list.
  
  ‘Raj Bhopal, emeritus professor of public health at Edinburgh University, insisted that coronavirus is “not an infection we should be panicking about”, as he argued that other conditions such as the flu pose more of a danger to the younger generation.’
  
  https://www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/let-young-get-their-lives-says-expert-making-herd-immunity-case-2930983
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:32am
- slightlyrighty
  
  Belgium currently has a death rate of 861 per million of population. 2nd only to Peru in death rate (San Merino is highest, but as a micro-state, one outbreak with 42 deaths does have an impact I would describe as a statistical anomoly).
  
  I would be wary of using them as an example.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:52am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Belgian officials say they are counting deaths in a way that no other country in the world is currently doing: counting deaths in hospitals and care homes, and including deaths in care homes that are suspected, not confirmed, as Covid-19 cases. There is evidence that once a death in a care home is confirmed as Covid-19, the all subsequent deaths in that same facility are ‘assumed to be Covid-19’. 53% of deaths on Belgium have been in care homes.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:17am
    - Saks
      
      Plus look at the actual numbers – Belgium in particular.
      
      Early wave of cases, high death rates.
      
      So called “second wave” of cases which is actually higher than the first wave with almost zero death rate.
      
      Classic viral wave, picks up the excess deaths that were left over from a light flu season in 2019 and is now mainly harmless.
      
      But we mass test and identify old cases, possible cases etc to keep the narrative going. Majority of these people either weren’t sick or felt like they had a cold.
      
      We have tested 750,000 people in NZ and only identified 1835 cases. Given the requirement to actually have symptoms before getting a test, this means that covid 19 is responsible for 0.2% of cold and flu symptoms.
      
      Yet we collapse the free world?
      
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      September 30, 2020 10:54am
  - wimpston peeeders
    
    yea but I bet they wont have a looming pension/superan problem, nz couldve done with a decent cleanout just think we couldve solved housing crisis and eased the burden of ritirees on our country. plus a few of the serial whingers/doomers on here would shut up.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:18am
    - kiwibird
      
      and don,t forget all the money that will trickle down to the next generation in the “cleanout “!
      Terribly tempting isn,t it ?
      
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      September 30, 2020 4:50pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  If there really was a deadly pandemic, we wouldn’t need to be rushing to test everybody to prove it exists.
  People would actually be sick.
  Hospitals would all be full.
  People you actually know would be dead.
  None of that exists in reality.
  But instead, only on your television ?
  
  We don’t use highly sensitive PCR testing to mass test asymptomatic people for fragments of any virus other than Covid. What would we find if we used this approach for flu, and counted as a flu death every death that occurred within 30 days of a positive flu test? ?
  
  Belgium Health Experts Demand Investigation Of WHO For Faking Coronavirus Pandemic ?
  https://greatgameindia.com/belgium-who-investigation-coronavirus/#When_WHO_Faked_a_Pandemic
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:55am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    The reason that we don’t have a widespread epidemic is because of the measures that have been taken. Which are supported by National, and also mostly by Act as well.
    If you don’t do enough, you end up with a US outcome. Millions infected and hundreds of thousands dead. And it is not as if the US has done nothing to stop the disease.
    Though of course many here would say it is just a mild flu, no big deal. No need for any form of action at all.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:58am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The US situation is political (bullshit from the left) Americans are dying WITH Covid, but not because of it. What are the numbers of those dead from the Flu?
      
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      September 30, 2020 10:19am
      - Batman
        
        The families of those who died don’t give a fuck about your bullshit claims of ‘with vs of’.
        
        Their loved ones are dead because of Covid, and they weren’t dead before.
        
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        September 30, 2020 11:54am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        You never answered the question Batman – just avoided it.
        “What are the numbers of those dead from the Flu?”
        
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        September 30, 2020 5:25pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      “Which are supported by National, and also mostly by Act as well.”
      Because it was political suicide to oppose, the MSM would have crucified them.
      But now…….
      
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      September 30, 2020 10:40am
    - Sigmund Freud
      
      Wayne, the measures failed. That’s why there was a second lockdown.
      
      I know. Because the first lockdown cost me $60,000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      
      THAT sharpened my wits as to what was really going on.
      
      BTW Wayne, how much did your Parliamentary pension drop?
      
      Oh I see. It didn’t. And I guess there is no sacrifice of MY money and MY family enough for Mr Full-dollar MAPP!!!
      
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      September 30, 2020 10:56am
    - krazykiwi
      
      The reason that we don’t have a widespread epidemic is because of the measures that have been taken
      
      Nonsense. There is zero evidence that “the measures” (aka lockdowns and detaining healthy people under the pretext of quarantine) has any impact on the lethality of Covid-19, or any other common viral pathogen.
      
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      September 30, 2020 11:28am
      - Wayne Mapp
        
        Krazykiwi,
        Well, I guess you know more than all the public health authorities in the entire OECD (even Sweden) since they have all convinced their political masters (whether left or right) to institute some form of quarantine or lockdown measures. And virtually all epidemiologists in hospital and medical schools support these measures.
        There is a reason why your advice is not being followed. It goes against the overwhelming body of medical opinion.
        
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        September 30, 2020 11:58am
      - Critical Thinker
        
        @Wayne Mapp
        
        “I think you should allow the controlled spread of the disease for people below 60.”
        – Johan Giesecke – Vice-Chair of the WHO Strategic and Technical Advisory Group for Infectious Hazards. And former Chief Scientist at the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control .
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC8NH1BNGz8
        
        “Covid-19 is a nasty flu-like virus. It’s new, but not unique. The Ioannidis study shows that the death rate is only very marginally worse than the standard flu viruses that kill hundreds of sick and elderly New Zealanders every year.
        
        The response should be the measured one we had all planned for lower mortality pandemics, not lockdowns. We’ve sacrificed our humanity, our society, and our economy for the wrong virus. The fear and panic that has driven the response of many scientists, politicians, policymakers and media is unwarranted – even irrational.”
        – Simon Thornley – Epidemiologist at the University of Auckland
        https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/not-lockdowns-controversial-epidemiologist-calls-end-irrational-covid-19-elimination-strategy
        
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        September 30, 2020 1:35pm
    - lastmanstanding
      
      Hi Wayne
      
      For me the real test is the ‘extra deaths”. That is how many extra people have died as a direct result of CV19 and I havent seen any numbers around that.
      
      So if X numbers would normally die in a given period and Y was the actual deaths then Z is the number that actually died from CV19.
      
      Seems to me what we have is the lies damn lies and statistics situation at present with some sectors milking it to advance their own agendas.
      
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      September 30, 2020 11:31am
      - Nickc2
        
        Agree, if there was no CV-19 epidemic, Cindy’s mob wouldn’t be ahead in the polls. Her performance to date without CV-19 doesn’t justify her numbers in political polling.
        
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        September 30, 2020 12:50pm
      - Critical Thinker
        
        We already have these “extra deaths” stats for the no lock down Sweden. Which shows no difference in deaths compared to the average over the previous 5 years ?
        
        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EjCn-GCVgAA3pNP?format=jpg
        
        https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ei_Pn5BX0AQQXHe?format=jpg
        
        We now know for a fact that it’s the infirm that should be given support to quarantine themselves. Not imprison the whole populace with dystopian 1984 style tyranny. The Sweden model allows the healthy to acquire herd immunity, which of course then protects the infirm ??
        
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        September 30, 2020 1:00pm
    - theoldbloke
      
      As usual…Didnt Cindy do well. Of course there is no counterfactual and politicians and ex politicians go down the idealogical path.
      
      And as always the comparison is verses the USA. The Asian experience is skipped. So how did lockdown NZ strategy work verses Taiwan, Korea, Vietnam and shock horror Cambodia with zero deaths.
      And before you poo pooh the Cambodian numbers. I have been living here for 6 months as could get home. Funerals here are very public affairs..no reported(or observed by local expat community) increases in deaths.
      For a population of 16 million there are 19 million active SIM cards with incredibly cheap internet $1us a week free calls free texts within ISP plus 10 gigs data. So social media hums..no reports on social media about cases/deaths.
      However average age is 25 and population generally live an outside life. Ie not huddled in aircon/centrally heated places. Not a lot of obesity.:-)
      Apply that scenario to NZ generally an outside life style and generally younger population and it easy to project why NZ survived so well.
      PS no reported covid19 deaths in Cambodia and only a relative handful in other Asian countries.
      
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      September 30, 2020 12:49pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    From BMJ graph of risk of death if infected:
    https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3259
    
    Tiny compared to your normal annual risk of death from just being alive.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:32am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Timeline of WHO’s response to the pandemic from 31 December 2019
    
    From our 2017 Pandemic response document
    release 2017 (August)
    Border management
    In a potential or actual global pandemic, New Zealand may be able to prevent the virus from entering the country or to delay its entry, allowing other response measures to be put in place (during the Keep It Out phase). Such an intervention may be feasible because of New Zealand’s geographical isolation, its limited number of entry points and its well-coordinated border management systems. In the Keep It Out phase routine public health risk management procedures at the border could be elevated, according to the development of the global situation. Elevated measures may include increasing information to arriving passengers, providing travel advisories, closing the border to certain categories of arrival or imposing mandatory quarantine for categories of arrivals.
    
    There is value in trying to keep the virus out, or to at least delay the arrival of the virus, to allow time for virus attenuation and reduce the time the virus is in the country before a pandemic vaccine for it becomes available. Effective border management is the best way to protect New Zealanders from the effects of a future pandemic.
    
    Note the date
    Sep 19, 2020 – Today marks six months since New Zealand’s border closed for the first time in its history.
    
    So closure in March 19th
    
    Feb 28, 2020 – The first case of COVID-19 is now confirmed in New Zealand in a person in their 60s recently returned from Iran.
    
    A few things here
    1. 1st case in 28th Feb, boarders not closed till 19th March…considering the experience of Italy, we were NOT early.
    2. Considering the pandemic response document suggests shutting the boarders BEFORE it gets here and using our “geographical” advantage (ie surrounded by the Pacific Ocean) and WHO had, months earlier, issued this PANDEMIC alert.
    Why didn’t our govt. shut the boarders in January?
    Conclusion
    Jacinda had her attention elsewhere, Mosque shooting commemoration?…As there was an election this year?
    Could not politically use a document produced under John Key and Bill English, as that would be admitting they were better than her?
    Q:
    We had a pandemic response for exactly this situation, making us better prepared than anyone in the the world, why didn’t we/she use it?
    Our geographical advantage, mentioned in the document, meant that even without using the document, we had 2 months notice, ahead of other countries to respond and we didn’t, till after it had arrived.
    To use Jacinda’s kind of Hyperbole, 24 deaths are on her head!!!! (this is what THEY would be saying if National were the govt.)
    But we should not be surprised.
    The same incompetence can be said about
    Measles
    Meningitis.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:38am
    - Sigmund Freud
      
      RW Capitalist. Good points. Except in ‘Waynes World, Waynes World, Waynes World’.
      
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      September 30, 2020 11:11am
    - tf78
      
      RW – she had an appointment she wanted to keep on 15 March – no other reason.
      
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      September 30, 2020 11:35am
    - Ruahine
      
      Just like to add that there was no actual Quarantine at the border until the middle of April. We were all locked down by March 28th but thousands of people were still arriving and walking thru the airports of New Zealand thereby costing the country billions.
      
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      September 30, 2020 11:58am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Our first known case arrived in NZ from Italy on 21st Feb.
      He showed symptoms but was not tested back then, even though Covid-19 was rampaging through Northern Italy in mid Feb.
      
      This would mean that the infected family member from Italy is effectively now the first case we are aware of in New Zealand, as they have reported having symptoms on arrival on 21 February, a week before our first reported case on 28 February.
      
      Consequently, the other household cases would represent the first locally acquired cases of COVID-19 in New Zealand, given the onset of symptoms from 29 February for the confirmed case.
      
      https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/media-releases/3-new-cases-covid-19-and-6-historical-cases
      
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      September 30, 2020 4:28pm
- Alboy
  
  To be fair, I suspect that it’s not a great reset going on. More a face saving exercise, to go back to something resembling normal life now would be admitting they over reacted in the first place. Can’t have that can we.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:03am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    To add
    I not there is no program or methodology to remove the limits of “level 1” ie back to normal, when citizens are free to do as they please.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:47am
    - Flossie
      
      I honestly thought Level 1 just meant the border is closed with certain limitations, and we are free to congregate and travel within the country. Is social distancing still required? And what about tracking?
      I do note however the PM still doing the ridiculous elbow bumping thing.
      
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      September 30, 2020 11:09am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        at level 1 most restrictions become recommendations
        However
        We still have to PAY, from our taxes, all these adds and monitoring of our behaviour.
        
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        September 30, 2020 11:28am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        and
        Without legislation, can arbitrarily change levels on the whim of our current dictator.
        
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        September 30, 2020 1:18pm
- MCos
  
  Apart from San Marino, Belgium has by far the worst death rate from covid-19 in Europe.
  The situation over there bears no resemblance to what happened and is happening in our country.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:08am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    I don’t trust any death rates until I’ve seen exactly exactly how they were measured.
    
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    September 30, 2020 1:58pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Cindy saved us. I rest my case.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:29am
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Bonne journée mondiale de la traduction.
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September 30, 2020 8:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Still does not make any sense
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:23am
Biscuit

Love it that WinstonFirst was on the News last night bemoaning that after a lifetime of ‘building a reputation’ he is – because of others, natch – now in deep do-do.

Not a hint of recognition that the fact he is polling 1% is a pretty good indication of what New Zealanders at large think of his ‘reputation’.
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September 30, 2020 8:03am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  I look at something I have stepped in at the park with something akin to affection compared to Peters . . .
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:31am
  - Biscuit
    
    Paulus, such a shame, isn’t it, that no-one has to trot behind WinstonFirst with a plastic bag to pick up HIS foul droppings after he has dropped them!
    
    (Mind, just imagine the size of the plastic bag you’d need for that…)
    
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    September 30, 2020 8:52am
    - rockape
      
      He has plenty of brown paper bags from party donations left. much better and more environmentally friendly than plastic.
      
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      September 30, 2020 10:23am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Yup.
    
    “Oh hell, I’ve trodden on a Winston”
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:37am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  Shouldve seen him on the am show this morning, he cant see the forest for the trees.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:03am
  - Flossie
    
    He can, but doesn’t want to say it out loud.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:23am
Classic Liberal

Oh lovely, Red Radio is so woke that they now name every city in Maori before English in the weather report. So educational.

Problem: after all their grievance programmes it feels like they are trying to correct NZ like a bunch of bad kids.

Add this to racist plans for preferential Maori and PI health treatment and demands for even more restrictions on bright white and Asian kids getting into med school. (Yes, giving one group preference does restrict others’ opportunities).

But some people might like this or think that as a bilingual country we have to do it, like it or not. So let commercial radio channels do it and if people still want to listen, fine.

But don’t force it on people with public funding.

The interests of listeners should be driving any such decisions, not some woke policy makers.
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September 30, 2020 8:12am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  Start of tyranny?
  Being forced to listen to and use te reo would be cruel and oppressive for 3/4 of nz population.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:33am
  - JackRabbit
    
    And racist.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:52am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I want my money back from these false “settlements”.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:18am
- Unity
  
  Hear hear Classic Liberal. I’m totally fed up with all things Maori but only because it gets shoved down our throats at every turn. I’m quite put off it all.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:08am
- Paulus
  
  And Vodafone is becoming Aotearoa named according to some Maori expert it is New Zealand’s Original name – what crap.
  It will not do Vodafone any real marketing good anyway.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:28am
  - Michael Rodent
    
    Maori did not have a traditional name for the whole of New Zealand as they existed in relatively small tribal geographic areas.
    Actually the name “New Zealand” first appeared in 1642 in mapping following Abel Tasman’s joineries.
    The name “Aotearoa” first originated in 1898 in William Pember Reeves book “The Long White Cloud – Aotearoa”. The wider use of Aotearoa as the name for New Zealand only gained traction from academics in the 1980s.
    So, New Zealand as a name for the country has been around a lot longer than Aotearoa.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:53am
    - chwaga
      
      Probably Percy Smith’s stories in the school journals circa 1910 did more to cement Aotearoa as the name for New Zealand than any publication that went before.
      
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      September 30, 2020 11:42am
  - sooty
    
    Go woke, go broke! Sooner the better.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:00am
- Belinda
  
  And yesterday I was called a wahine on TV ones 12 pm news.
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:02am
  - Unity
    
    I went to a Grey Power meeting arranged for Judith Collins the other day. They had several people holding buckets with ‘Koha’ written on the outside. So I didn’t give them a donation but would have willingly done so if they had had ‘donation’ or something in English on the bucket. Call me pickie but I’m going to continue opposing this Maori nonsense. It’s quite ridiculous. It gets right up my nose.
    
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    September 30, 2020 12:34pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Eva Corlett RNZ tries to revive a “Norwegian Blue”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/election-2020/427216/labour-promised-big-on-housing-has-it-delivered
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September 30, 2020 8:13am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Unbelievable! You are right Maggy, she really does go there!
  
  There is nothing so true as the love an “independent” taxpayer funded journalist has for the Labour party.
  
  “See this mum got from a garage to a state house, this absolutely PROVES that the policy is working. By the way, did I mention that Cindy is amazeballs”.
  
  Lets not mention the other 20,000 on the list shall we? or the 700 houses most of them rebuilds instead of 30,000 that were promised – and funded!
  
  Time to defund state media. Put the money into something useful …. like carbon credits…… or more tangible, like Team NZ Investment Fund managers!
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:19am
  - artemisia
    
    20,000 on the state housing waiting list. Ok but that was the July number and we are now 2 months on. Any bets the number is reducing?
    
    Thought not.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:29am
- Swifty
  
  Classic Labour misdirection of the citizenry.
  
  “The previous government ended up with 1500 houses fewer than they started with.”
  
  The houses didn’t go anywhere, they’re still there, as rentals, just now being managed by a non-governmental housing provider.
  
  Also, with all these houses being ‘built by the Labour government’ i.e. in fact by private organisations contracted by Kainga Ora, what has this done to the private sector with all this labour and build capacity being sucked away?
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:35am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    National were smart. They knew the State Housing stock was old and many houses needed needed substantial work done. They simply passed that off to other wannbe social housing providers.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:21am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      $300k per house to get them up to date as per the last debate.
      
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      September 30, 2020 11:38am
- Papalazarou
  
  Beautiful plumage!
  
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  September 30, 2020 12:58pm
Scott

krazykiwi – absolutely agree. Since the initial panic about Covid 19 the government shut everything down. We were under virtual house arrest. We could go for an occasional walk in our neighbourhood and go to the supermarket and go to the pharmacy. That was it. Otherwise we were under virtual house arrest. We had police officers in Masterton stopping and questioning people driving around in their cars. Children on bicycles were stopped and questioned. We couldn’t go to work, we couldn’t meet with our family members, we couldn’t attend our own parents funeral, we couldn’t go to church, all of our freedoms were taken away.

Now we find that despite going hard and going early, we may still have to endure a continuing rolling maul of lockdowns. The Prime Minister has not ruled out another lockdown. Indeed she locked Auckland down because of four cases.

It seems clear to me that our government really enjoys being in charge and telling New Zealanders what to do. It is also clear that the elimination strategy is never ever going to work. The virus is not going away. Sooner or later we will have to open up New Zealand to tourists and overseas travel. We cannot remain a hermit Kingdom for ever. Sooner or later some politician is going to have to open up New Zealand. Then we will have more cases of Covid. We should do our best to protect the elderly and those with pre-existing conditions. But everybody else should get on with their lives.

We have had a free trial of socialism. Can we return to our normal democratic norms as soon as possible?
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September 30, 2020 8:15am
- Ian Boag
  
  our best to protect the elderly
  
  Words words words…
  
  What government intervention should we expect to achieve this laudable aim …. ?
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:53am
  - Scott
    
    Ian Boag – I would suggest we assign a limousine and a limousine driver to every old person who is concerned about the virus. This limousine driver can cater to their every need. Go and get the groceries, take them to doctors appointments. Help them with their PPE. Whatever is needed.
    
    That would still be cheaper than another lockdown! The lockdown is the most expensive thing we can do. The lockdown is what is going to kill the economy.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:02am
    - artemisia
      
      Scott, I’m thinking a helicopter with its own medical professional. Still cheaper than lockdowns.
      
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      September 30, 2020 9:33am
      - Classic Liberal
        
        A jet pack for the more adventurous!!
        
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        September 30, 2020 2:02pm
  - crikey
    
    None, I hope. This Government has shown it can’t manage and deliver anything it has promised. Get someone or some organisation that is truly accountable to do it.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:25am
    - Ian Boag
      
      some organisation that is truly accountable to do it.
      
      Empty words again. What is this “it” …. ?
      
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      September 30, 2020 12:54pm
- tf78
  
  Judith Collins should say :
  
  “We are a Democracy NOT a Regime,
  We have Policies NOT agendas,
  We are New Zealanders!”
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:53am
Benedict Yu

https://www.theage.com.au/national/destroying-spinach-and-sacrificing-cabbages-the-worker-drought-wasting-australia-s-produce-20200929-p560es.html

This is in Australia, but it may happen here. Farmers destroying crops because nobody to pick them.

Question for people who been in New Zealand longer than me, Who picked New Zealand crops and fruit 20, 30, 40 years ago? Why is people from other countries needed when lots of unemployed healthy young people here?
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September 30, 2020 8:18am
- Observer of Life
  
  40 years ago I picked fruit and then pruned those same trees. Those I worked with were a mix of 16, 20-30 something year olds, as well as an old guy in his 60’s. All Kiwi’s.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:40am
  - crikey
    
    People who had a work ethic. Relying on state handouts would have been anathema to them.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:27am
  - tf78
    
    I picked grapes down in Gisborne, the spray made my fags taste awful. 50c /bin I think then. Also waitressed at Tony’s Wellesley St, $1.59/hour.
    
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    September 30, 2020 11:58am
- [email protected]
  
  Because picking crops is hard work and a lot of people no longer want to work hard?
  
  I understand that there’s no dole in China and people either work, beg or starve.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:42am
  - mandk
    
    Nor should there be dole here for anyone less than 60 who is healthy, able bodied and does not have care responsibilities.
    
    Paying people such people to do nothing serves no one’s interests.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:15am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      “ and does not have care responsibilities”
      Unfortunately many would see that as an invitation to become solo parents.
      
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      September 30, 2020 9:38am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  why? Because its a shit job that pays shit, youll see sob stories from growers that no one will do it even for 500bux a day etc in reality its minimum wage and less then 5% will make big bux as theyll work 14-16hrs a day to blowout their quota and get bonuses.
  
  standard orchard rates are min wage 7am-7pm and expected to pick x amount in that time (fail a few times and dont come monday) once you pick over that set amount then youll go onto piece rate aswell and get an extra 20-25bux per bin of fruit picked over the set amount.
  
  I worked on several orchards most were slavery but the odd one was great to work for and I made excellent money but theyre hard to find.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:43am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    I did those jobs as a student. It is really hard work, and really hard to make big dollars. I made double the money working for a shop outfitting firm at weekends – and double time on sundays!
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:06am
    - wimpston peeeders
      
      yep, me and a mate teamed up and just took an even split of the $$$ that gave us momentum and competition. we would average 375-400 pre tax per day each (10hr day but we worked very hard), most other pickers would only get minimum wage and barely do their daily quota
      
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      September 30, 2020 9:53am
  - lifesgood
    
    Just goes to show the dole is too high.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:13am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    A mate was hired on a kiwifruit orchard to fertilise the vines. Apparently students were cheaper than bees!
    
    I also bagged dog biscuits. 2 of us on the station, one filling one sewing. We got $40 per pallet. We could do 3 pallets an afternoon, as long as we were doing the 5kg bags. the 2kgs were a bastard, 5 bags, into a big sack, all needed to be sewn up, and industrial sewing machine was a piece of work.
    
    er, happy day! It was money we wouldnt have seen otherwise, paid the groceries.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:42am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Benedict
  
  There was no labour from the P Is and backpackers hadn’t been invented.
  
  Students did it during the vacations to earn money and also worked in the freezing works.
  
  Another way they made money was “seagulling”!!!!
  
  That was working on the wharves when there was a shortage of labour.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:48am
- Gravelroad
  
  Benedict Yu-
  I grew up in a fruit growing region.
  During the Christmas school holidays, I and my friends got together and went out to pick raspberries and strawberries. Later on it was apples. We got a bit of much needed pocket money out of it.
  Thing was, as school kids, we had no other access to money unless our parents gave us some. Some did, others didn’t.
  As 15- 16- 17 years olds, we had little money.
  I borrowed my Dad’s car to go out to the fields.
  Now many teenagers have their own cars.
  My parents paid for expenses such as clothes, sport or cultural activities – but not phones, cigarettes, alcohol or other drugs.
  Teenagers now seem to have much greater access to money than I ever did.
  We looked forward to fruit picking.
  Now it’s not cool or necessary to work outside in the fields to harvest crops – so imported workers need to do it.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:56am
  - Flossie
    
    I agree with all that. It speaks to the expectations of people now. From 12 year olds with flash phones and x boxes (in my childhood circle we had cardboard boxes and imagination!) right up to first home buyers who NEED to have an en suite and a double garage. Be grateful to have what is available, and if you want more there are obviously employment opportunities, at least in fruit picking!
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:24am
  - RF
    
    When I was a callow youth I spent my school holidays – 5th & 6th form working for NZ Forestry in a local forest.
    
    It was really hard work that initially put blisters on my hands and a bloody sore back. Working with hard case crews, Pruning trees, line cutting, tree planting, shooting pigs and deer etc. Basically if it did not move, cut it down & if it moved, shoot it.
    
    Looking back it was an healthy education that you would not receive playing in doors with an X Box or play station.
    
    In spite of enjoying the outdoor life I did not pursue a career with the NZ Forest Service and later finished up in law enforcement.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:51am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Gravelroad,
    Travelled the same road.
    I worked school holidays from form 4. Initially crap jobs, but crap jobs that paid me money and the start of a cv.
    In order, a garden shop, berry picking, supermarket shelf filler, orchard thinning, labouring at a scout camp, cook at Kentucky fried, labouring in a bakery (5 university holidays with that gig) and barmanning thru uni.
    Gave me the money to spend on beer skiing and sports gear.
    My sons just ask me for cash and look at me blankly when i say get a part time job.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:08am
    - Gravelroad
      
      Ha – I eventually extended my job repertoire to working after school in a milk bar – making milk shakes in those tin containers, scooping ice cream into cones and creating ice cream sodas. Who remembers ice cream sodas?
      Was busy place as on way home from my town’s Municipal swimming pool (generally known as “the ”Munies”) where everyone went as nowhere else much to go to – except the river and basketball in the winter.
      
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      September 30, 2020 10:38am
  - Pharmachick
    
    Started in 4th form at New World as a checkout chick. Charming blue polyester uniform. $3.60/hr. Saved enough to pay my first years Uni fees and some of my Halls costs. Worked every holidays in the chemist (very nice job is that). Still needed a [small] student loan.
    
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    September 30, 2020 1:24pm
- JibberJabber
  
  Communism 101, a hungry populace is a compliant populace.
  Why do you think Communist Cindy and her Green minions are trying so hard to fuck the Agriculture sector in this country?
  Let them eat pine cones Comrade!
  It can be done, https://www.atlasobscura.com/foods/pine-cone-preserves
  Just imagine the famine that bought this to the dinner table.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:14am
- Gulag1917
  
  Plus hundreds of trucks standing idle for the wheat harvest with state borders being closed because drivers cannot get into various states. Also that bad the army might be called into to drive road trains in WA.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:27am
- MCos
  
  I bought some Aussie strawberries a week or two ago from Countdown and yesterday some Kiwi ones for much the same price.
  I checked on google and the minimum wage for pickers in Oz is $A21.60 ($23.37) as apposed to $18.90 here.
  There was an ad in the paper for Perry’s Berrys. The pickers were paid by how much they picked and if they didn’t make min wage they were let go. Make of that what you will.
  Ms Perry was on TV complaining because she couldn’t get foreign workers.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:26am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Shane’s cousins cannot get off the couch and bother. Cindy increased the benefit by $25 a week any way.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:32am
- Ruahine
  
  Is it possible that there are lots of unemployed lazy young people here.
  
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  September 30, 2020 12:08pm
  - chukar
    
    To all job commentators.
    Part of the problem is now it is so hard to employ people without creating potential liabilities, tax , holiday pay, making suitable work environments etc,etc
    Casual work as such has been regulated out of existance
    The only real option in self defence.is to employ a contractor who looks after all that, do it yourself or forget about it.
    
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    September 30, 2020 8:27pm
krazykiwi

A good, well-referenced article on the efficacy of masks: The Mask and the Bump. It includes this quote from a May 2020 Study in Hong Kong published by the US CDC:

In pooled analysis, we found no significant reduction in influenza transmission with the use of face masks.
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September 30, 2020 8:18am
- Maggie Pie
  
  But I really love wearing my mask in public. Everyone reckons it looks fab. Bought a designer brand off ebay, and sooo many friends have asked where they can get one from.
  The other beauty is, when some … [del., quit your racial profiling. Mod.] pushes in at New World, you can mouth things like, “A—HOLE”, and they never know.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:39am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    https://i.imgflip.com/45mg4i.jpg
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:02am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      It has to cover your nose, Maggie.
      https://s.yimg.com/aah/yhst-43237354811846/animal-nose-mask-91.jpg
      
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      September 30, 2020 9:38am
Clyde

Is anyone getting increasingly annoyed at RNZ using the East Polynesian names for NZ cities during their programming? Does anyone know where this “direction” or “guideline” that is now prevalent that results in Government or local Government having to find an East Polynesian name for everything from Transit NZ to local swimming pools which is then used in large font above a smaller font in English?

It has reached the lunatic stage. There was never an East Polynesian name for Aquatic Centre for example, but the process now is for an East Polynesian name to be invented and then an English translation made of the invented phrase.

What I’d like to know is just who is driving this nonsense.
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September 30, 2020 8:21am
- Exclamation Mark
  
  I, too would love to know where this has come from.
  
  It has obviously been building for a while but has ramped up a notch in the last 12 months – think the media’s using the White Island tragedy to suddenly start calling it Whakaari.
  
  It has really kicked into the gear over the Covid period and I suspect they have gone into over drive off the back of the black lives matter nonsense in the US, realizing that they can now conveniently call anyone who opposes this unannounced, uncalled for attempt at renaming NZ Aoteraoa (along with every thing else they can think) a dirty racist. A great example of this are the obsequious corporate toads running our telco industry yesterday: https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/09/spark-2degrees-vodafone-band-together-online-after-te-reo-m-ori-criticism-from-twitter-user.html
  Such a virtue signaling pile-on, utterly pathetic.
  
  But to your point, I would dearly love to know who has decreed that everything needs to be renamed in Maori, how it came to be and how much it is all costing us. It all seems to be part of a grander “decolonisation” creep where anything European is automatically seen as unclean and needing to be covered over. I’ll vote for anyone who dares to name this bullshit and vows to put a stop to it.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:46am
  - lifesgood
    
    Does anyone know if there is a telco that hasn’t gone woke? I’d like to change to them and tell them why, after, of course, telling Vodafone why I’m leaving.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:15am
    - Close Hen Counters
      
      There is nothing Aotearoa about Vodafone when you have an issue and end up trying to understand the reply from India – hopeless woke bullshit
      
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      September 30, 2020 11:42am
  - marcw
    
    I’d guarantee Spark & 2 degrees only put out their te reo stance after phone calls from the woke MSM asking “So what do you think?” It’s called butt covering.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:17am
    - RJ
      
      No, because if you watch spark and 2degrees you will find they are both heavy in Maori language week. Who gives a fuck if Vodafone have Aotearoa on there network name for one week a year. Really, there are far more things to complain about, their bad service, their overseas help desks, the fact that both voda and spark charge for 13 months a year on prepay.
      
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      September 30, 2020 9:35am
      - marcw
        
        So why did both Spark & 2 Degrees suddenly burst into print yesterday after Vodafone was criticised? As you say, it’s not like it was new policy.
        
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        September 30, 2020 9:50am
      - RJ
        
        All three of them follow each other’s social media and do this when a customer gets precious with what the other is doing. Not the first time they have all done something like this. More a sign of the fact the media get their stories from social media. Watching their social media teams reply to some people can be entertaining.
        
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        September 30, 2020 9:58am
      - Flossie
        
        One week a year? Permanent isn’t it?
        
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        September 30, 2020 12:14pm
      - RJ
        
        No, it was to celebrate Maori language week.
        
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        September 30, 2020 12:32pm
    - graham
      
      Nope. Spark has been heavily into diversity, all things Maori, LGBT, etc. for at least the last three years.
      
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      September 30, 2020 11:11am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I think it has been a trend for a couple of years but it is accelerating. I took notice when NZTA chnaged its name to “Waka Kotahi”. I was surpised because NZTA has high name recognition. (Indeed I am sure the majority of Maori call it NZTA.)
    
    NZTA is progressively phasing out “NZTA” in its communications. e.g. on its websie the current banner reads:
    
    “COVID-19 SERVICES UPDATE: Information on Waka Kotahi services and the renewal date for extended WoFs, CoFs and driver licences. Find out more.”
    
    https://www.nzta.govt.nz/
    
    Another example is the determination of Victoria University to not use that name. Its legal name may still be “Victoria University of Wellington”. But its URL for its website is:
    
    https://www.wgtn.ac.nz/
    
    And the branding is “WELLINGTON” and “Te Herenga Waka”.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:37am
    - Batman
      
      NZTA has never been formally named NZTA. It’s an unofficial name that stuck.
      
      Whenever I dealt with them in a prior role they always referred to themselves by the full long version or the transport agency.
      
      Waka kotahi has been around since 2008 but is now the branding name with the old name under it. So I guess we’ll all call them WK or something, or just NZTA….
      
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      September 30, 2020 10:30am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Waka again? Does the name mean “boating together” or “in the same boat”?
      
      Turning NZ lingo into Maori will wreck Te Reo completely. The former elders knew that.
      Te Reo is an important language as the reserved use for genealogies etc. holds much vital information including land titles. The common Te Reo is barely fit for regular use as much is a transliteration from the English. The root words are fixed about 1830 and OK to describe kumara planting and war but tell nothing about dishwashers, school buses, psychology, gaseous mines… If Te Reo was all that was available we would have to invent English.
      I got a good glimpse into Polynesian languages when I spent 7 years in Samoa. I could even translate tax law.
      
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      September 30, 2020 10:39am
- Philview
  
  You may recall Labour’s 2017 manifesto on the concept of a Crown – Iwi Sovereign Partnership. This is going on behind the scenes. Recently, I saw Ngai Tahu referred to as the Crown’s Regional Partner in Otago. Radio NZ is clearly controlled by the Government. We have the history syllabus being rewritten, compulsory Te Reo in schools. All of the other little proposals floating about. Prison populations should be based on proportionality, medical school admittance should not be based on proportionality. Medical priority based on race, Maori get own DHB etc etc. I have nothing against Maori but I would like to see the media stand up and confront the Government on what the end game is here. I am deeply opposed to the idea that we end up in a democracy with decision making sitting outside of the democracy as is starting to happen with this Government’s many references to consulting our Treaty Partner.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:55am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What Treaty partner? Labour are storing up a possible civil war by encouraging they know-not-what.
    ☑️☑️National will stop the rot.☑️☑️
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:43am
    - Exclamation Mark
      
      Will they though? Will they promise to change all the names back toy English so we know what the fuck is being talked about? Will they start standing up for our European heritage and acknowledge that it s overwhelming a good thing instead of the constant stream of nonsense we are hearing about “colonisation” that goes completely unchallenged in the media? I would like to think so but I doubt they will.
      
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      September 30, 2020 12:19pm
- kiwibird
  
  Maybe it is the same international media company that has this morning decided to call New Zealand Aotearoa, only.
  DDB is part of DDB Worldwide, an Omnicom company a highly ranked, worldwide advertising agency. Includes company information and philosophy, clients, and global contact information.
  For sure we are being socially engineered in NZ more and more. Have you sat down and analysed the actors used in TV commercials these days. They in no way proportionly represent the true population. Its probably all part of the same thing.
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:34am
Unity

I was disgusted with Ardern last night and TV One News for airing her comments about Judith’s involvement with the SFO, in spite of her being totally cleared of any wrongdoing (which TV1 would have known). Then they had the audacity to acknowledge this wrong information at the end of the News and Weather and just before Seven Sharp when many would have been changing channels!!

It’s shocking how biased our media are especially with an election coming up.
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September 30, 2020 8:24am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Having viewed and listened to the PM’s attack a few times now, I am coming around to Hubby’s viewpoint that our PM is a nasty piece of work, although I think my original view that our PM is pig ignorant is still in play.
  
  https://play.stuff.co.nz/details/_6195483565001
  
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/judith-collins-disgusted-after-jacinda-arderns-dig-over-her-past-with-the-sfo/
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:44am
  - Swifty
    
    Note her wording too.
    
    Judith’s job is being a Member of Parliament. One of the roles she filled, in that job, was as a Minister in Government. So she never ‘lost her job’, she temporarily stood down from a role she held.
    
    Now when the shoe was on the other foot, and Twyford was booted from Housing after an inept performance, he never ‘lost his job’ oh no, according to Labour he was merely ‘re-assigned’.
    
    Hypocrites.
    
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    September 30, 2020 8:58am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Ms Ardern seems to be one of those with a passive/aggressive personality.
    She is a very capable actor – puts on gushing, smiley, concerned faces in public but perhaps different when no cameras on.
    Her cult members see only one side.
    I would not like to work with or for her.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:04am
  - Lee C
    
    She’s a skilled actress but a narcissist, IMO.
    
    My instinct is that when the camera’s off she’s a bit of a handful.
    
    Just an impression though.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:04am
  - Unity
    
    To me Maggy, the PM is both a nasty piece of work and also pig ignorant as well as a few other names it would be better not to state here. I find myself detesting her for some reason which is not like me usually??!!
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:13am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      I know what you mean. I don’t usually have a gut reaction to people, but when I hear her ‘concerned’ voice or see her false smile papered over asn actual communist history, I feel angry.
      
      She would love to steal everything I have worked and saved for and give it to idiots too stupid to use contraception! And force me to learn a twisted, inaccurate version of Maori plus be prosecuted for ‘hate speech’ if I criticise dangerous, violent religious doctrines.
      
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      September 30, 2020 9:53am
    - [email protected]
      
      True.
      
      I have liked some PM’s and disliked some PM’s but untill now was never disgusted with a PM.
      
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      September 30, 2020 11:41am
  - lifesgood
    
    Body language specialists say that touching your mouth when speaking signifies you are telling, or going to tell, a lie. Watch the video again. She bloody well knew it was a lie and hoped she could get away with it. She said it outside parliament so there is no parliamentary protection. Go get her, Judith.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:19am
  - RJ
    
    Something is going on behind the scenes, either their internal polling shows them far lower than the public polling or she knows something is about to be released that will damage labour.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:30am
  - Happychappy
    
    Gutter politics by a false Prime Minister that doesn’t know the difference between fact and fiction and I know which person I would back as Judith Collins excepted her fate even though it was wrong and she was cleared, something Jacinda can’t say over the stitch up job she did on the intern who accused the sexual deviate out of Jacindas officer sexual assault only for Jacinda to sweep it under the carpet and save Labour once more from another of the sexual assaults accusations that have plagued their Party over the years, remember Darren Hughes.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:34am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I think you are both right–Ardern is both ignorant and a bully. (They’re called socialists or unionists. The smarter ones push the lower orders out and become the top dogs. )
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:46am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    But she saved your life Maggy! Where is your gratitude? Two ticks Labour, won’t you?
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:54am
    - mark15
      
      Bro your record is scratched!
      
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      September 30, 2020 12:19pm
- Inandout
  
  Unity, join the 70% of NZers who watch anything but the spoon fed socialist news at 6pm. Most of the remaining 30% are chained to TV1 either by their institution or by ancient locally tuned TV sets. I have discovered a refreshingly open and informative TV menu on streaming services. I will tune into the TV3 debates because I believe the $50 million bribe can’t obviously affect what is said by Judith.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:49am
  - MCos
    
    Approx 13% of the population watches TV1 News at 6pm.
    
    If Collins can’t stand the heat she should get out of the kitchen, poor wee thing.
    https://dirtypoliticsnz.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/dirty-politics_ch-4-extract.pdf
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:58am
- kowtow
  
  Proves the ‘be kind” mantra is just another lie , created for her by well paid advisers for dissemination by an activist media to a gullible public.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:02am
- kiwikidsnz
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Collins was never cleared of her involvement in the Dirty Politics issues Hager exposed. She’s cleverly played on Key’s carefully limited investigation clearing her of something Hager didn’t accuse her of.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:08am
  - rangitoto
    
    Hagar exposed nothing but his own criminal activity.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:10am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      And he suppressed for blackmail purposes all of the labour ratbaggery, and that of the complicit media who all used whaleoil to rinse sources through.
      
      Now, that story would be a bestseller! But of course Hagar is an utterly tribal trust fund kid.
      
      Notice the media never go him? He still has all their emails.
      
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      September 30, 2020 10:32am
- Surely Knott
  
  And the headline last night was Judith and the SFO (despite her sfo investigation being years ago and coming up clean). Followed by the Winston SFO article (current news). And buried in third place, discretely titled, and gone this morning was a little article about how Labour had to pull their Northcote advertising brochures, after an advertising standards review, because they said they had built 600 houses in Northcote when in fact they’d built 74.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:21am
- RJ
  
  Welcome to politics, it’s a nasty place, and those who can’t handle it should never enter it. Judith is a big girl and can give far better than she takes..
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:29am
  - MCos
    
    I think that should be ‘worse’.
    
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    September 30, 2020 11:00am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Absolutely. She isn’t crying.
    It doesn’t mean Jacinda should get away with defamation.
    Also note to the idiots hassling Judith over having a Trust – I bet Jacinda wishes her house was in one now.
    
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    September 30, 2020 11:43am
Happychappy

What a bunch of lying unscrupulous Senior MP’s Labour havens leading the bunch is Jacinda Ardern with the help of Megan Woods.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/09/nz-election-2020-labour-promised-big-on-housing-has-it-delivered.html
Labour promised big figures last Election by promising 100,000 house being built over a ten year period and just came up with 600 completed in their first three year term. Now we have Megan Woods lying about the reasons and still blaming the National Government for Labours incompetence. So Labour is about to make more fraudulent promises just like in 2017 and the fact checkers with the help of main stream media will again hide all of the facts so their favorite Prime Minister is re-elected.
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September 30, 2020 8:35am
- Inandout
  
  Happy, Hosking attempted to question Nash on this during his show this morning, but the latter kept bringing up National’s mistaken billions. It sounded so childish and his continual use of the term ‘incredibly hard’ grates.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:56am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Apparently “working incredibly hard” but failing utterly because you are an incompetent, thick, useless wanker, is a complete get out of jail free card.
    
    Labour the party where aspiration matters more than perspiration.
    
    Talking not Doing.
    
    Or, given we are on a state mandated Maori language kick. In the words of the late great Billy T James
    
    “Labour, All Hui, no Dui”
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:27am
Bobba Fret

On TV3 news last night when reporting about the repairs to the Auckland harbour bridge, they kept referring to Whaka Kothari. I had no idea what they were on about. Apparently this is the new name for Transport NZ. But they didn’t even give the English translation.
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September 30, 2020 8:37am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Whaka Kothari ? Try Waka Kotahi.
  The first means something like a Kothari, whatever that is? The second is claimed to be NZTA’s new name and is meaningless too trying to stretch the few Maori root words too far. NZTA is precise as an acronym, the alternative might refer to a boating regatta.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:54am
kowtow

I wonder do the churnalists at stuffed really believe the crap they write about “climate change”

Sea rise is the demon of each story ,one of the Marlborough Sounds the other about Orewa accompanied by photos of perfectly normal weather events such as floods , high tides and winds . The other issue cited is erosion , but no proof of any adverse events due to sea levels “rising”.

More catastrophe porn , they should be ashamed of themselves deliberately frightening the young , the gullible and the stupid.
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September 30, 2020 8:39am
- krazykiwi
  
  But the journalists are themselves ‘young , the gullible and the stupid’.
  
  It is self flagellation for the eco-cultists.
  
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  September 30, 2020 8:50am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The Marlborough Sounds story is a real doozy.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/122481085/waiting-for-the-road-to-disappear-tourist-haven-marlborough-sounds-braces-for-climate-change
  
  Just a single sentence mentioning the problem of subsidence.
  
  The Marlborough Sounds are sinking…and have been for at least the last 1.5million years.
  
  https://ref.coastalrestorationtrust.org.nz/site/assets/files/4473/landscape_history_of_the_marlborough_sounds_new_zealand.pdf
  
  It pays to check what is happening to the coast around NZ before you purchase a seaside property.
  Some parts of the coast are soft and erode easily, some parts are hard and are resistant to coastal erosion.
  
  Some parts of the coast are rising, some parts are sinking and some are stable.
  
  https://res.cloudinary.com/cognitives/image/upload/dpr_auto,f_auto,fl_lossy,q_auto/gpcddhdivwoejowskeuy
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:24am
- JackRabbit
  
  As we know, man made climate change does not exist. Increases in the rate of sea level rise is not happening. PR media says it is, the raw data does not support it.
  
  We are in the “Truman Show” and media pumped full of disinformation to keep us in a “State of Fear”.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:04am
Cantabrian

The American media’s obsession with ‘Orange Man Bad’ completely bypasses the good work he is doing in settling many long-standing international issues and removing America from unnecessary wars. Mark Levin interviewed Sec Pompeo a few days ago. Well worth watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ma-3qzKFj2s
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September 30, 2020 8:47am
Nigel Kearney

It was only a month ago David Parker issued various nutty farming regulations, including a requirement that crops have to be re-sown by October 1. That’s tomorrow and quite a large area of the South Island is currently covered in snow. Glad I’m not a farmer.
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September 30, 2020 8:49am
- kowtow
  
  Perfect example of how socialist diktat could create famine that historically killed millions.
  
  Bad government is the problem , not the solution.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:05am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  1st nov for southland, but still goodluck getting a plough in the ground anytime in the next 2wks
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:08am
- Gravelroad
  
  I am a farmer (not dairy) – but possibly not for much longer.
  Compliance and input costs will soon exceed income.
  People should be aware that we are not all corporate enterprises able to absorb every cost demand which is then just blindly paid by someone in head office.
  There are still many immersed in family based farming – owner operators.
  If the Labour/Greens have their way, farm production here in future will be mostly carried out by corporates (which are more easily controlled on the ground), or not at all.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:16am
- JackRabbit
  
  In Tahitian Maori justice, unless David Parker was the chief, he would cease to exist. Just another head on a stick and another hangi roast dinner.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:06am
- Rich Prick
  
  Is that dictate some kind of KiwiCrop?
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:07am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Have these regs been challenged in Court?
  Parker is out of his depth. This is socialist bullying in the extremist.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:57am
Simon

Auckland Shitty Council is a broken mess.

National should apologize for creating this sink hole in the first place. But looking to the future central government will need place Auckland Shitty into Administration. Labour are fighting too many fires and will not do it that just leaves National to start making the calls.
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September 30, 2020 8:50am
- Interested Party
  
  I personally think consolidating the cities is a good idea, before there used to be heaps of uncoordinated decisions and different priorities. The structure and governance of CGOs needs to change though
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:37am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Disagree. Merging leads to bureaucracy. Might be OK in Picard’s timeline but not in Ardern’s.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:08am
- MCos
  
  The Super City was an ACT monster by way of Rodney Hyde.
  The idea was to have the whole under the leadership of John Banks. Backfired.
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:03am
Maggie Pie

And honestly, are there televised ‘Leader’s Debates’ really all that relevant. I mean if people haven’t already made up their minds which way they intend voting, should they be allowed to anyway?
My partner was saying he’s known for about the last thirty years…. and nothing would ever sway him to vote left.
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September 30, 2020 8:53am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, if Jacinda can keep companies and their workers on the state tit for another few weeks until she cuts the cord all will be well. Then the shit will hit the fan.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:01am
- JackRabbit
  
  Very relevant, it affords some of the intellectually challenged masses to see Herr Ardern put on the spot without her controlled podium and asked the hard questions, and to reveal she is several sandwiches short of a picnic.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:10am
- Fletch
  
  “Sitting on a sofa on a Sunday afternoon
  Going to the candidates’ debate
  Laugh about it, shout about it when you’ve got to choose
  Every way you look at it, you lose”
  ~Mrs Robinson, sɪᴍᴏɴ ᴀɴᴅ ɢᴀʀғᴜɴᴋᴇʟ
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:25am
- Unity
  
  I think they are relevant Maggie because it shows their true personalities (colours?), so to speak. Who knows but you may change your mind after hearing them debate the issues especially with them not reading from an autocue. You can also better judge leadership material. Tonight should be interesting. I just hope Judith gives Ardern heaps after her nasty snide comments last night.
  
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  September 30, 2020 12:44pm
  - Paulus
    
    Will Ardern have her hidden hearing aid this time like Biden does, so she can repeat what she is told.
    
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    September 30, 2020 2:10pm
Billy Collins

Trump has his third Nobel peace prize nomination. How many more can he get?

https://nypost.com/2020/09/29/donald-trump-gets-third-nomination-for-nobel-peace-prize/

Also, Biden has his first, and just like Obama, he got it for doing nothing.

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/518705-british-member-of-parliament-nominates-biden-for-a-nobel-peace
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September 30, 2020 8:54am
- Paulus
  
  Read this morning that our wonder Queen Ardern has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize along with 150 others.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:38am
  - Unity
    
    Well that really will make the Nobel Peace Prize a nothing won’t it if someone like her can be nominated. Heaven help us all.
    
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    September 30, 2020 12:46pm
hullkiwi

Maggy. just highlighted one Norwegian Blue, another one is the Green’s transport policy, which like its wealth tax is another bottom line for being in government with Labour.

The policies of Labour and the Greens are all the reason one needs not to vote Labour or Green.

Three years ago, Labour and the Greens both promised LRT along Dominion Road. It did not not happen, because there was no reason/no transport rationale for providing it other than the voices of lobbyists (the Greater Auckland Transport blog) who are in the ears pf the Greens, Labour and the Mayor of Auckland’s office advising them all.

However, the Greens have now gone further, with their calls for:
1. high speed train between regional centres funded by the Land Transport Fund (which is financed by motorists for building and maintaining roads);
2. more extensive development of urban cycleways 5 metres wide; and
3. End of importing petrol/diesel vehicles and make the option electric vehicles.

None of these policies are even remotely sensible, reflective of how people live their lives, or affordable.

Electric vehicles are not even Green in any sense, with:
1. child labour in the Congo, mining Cobalt for use in electric vehicles (reference: http://www.ft.com search child labour cobalt mining Congo)
2. Batteries last 8 years and need to be repurosed or dispose of. Electric buses, the batterieis last 4 years;
3. Currently NZ generates only 85% of its electricity from renewable resources, how is it going to close the 15% gap, but even worse is if all vehicles are electric, how will NZ generate generate sufficient renewable electricity to power 4.5 million plus vehicles.
4. To power, NZ’s vehicle fleet and the high speed electric trains, requires nuclear power stations (yes, plural) to ensure there is sufficient electricity in NZ without the lights going out. Do the Greens really want that or understand that is what their policies mean? This is irrespective of the simple fact that 5 million people living at the bottom of the world can’t afford these policies (either financially or in any other general sense).
5. In order for businesses and households to recharge their electric vehicles the entire NZ electrivity network needs upgrading, where is the money for this going to come?

None of the above has been thought of by the Greens or their fan base advisors, what government activities are going to be cut to pay for this vacant thinking? Or will the reality of wealth taxes, CGT, increased income taxes, increased corporate taxes going to be a reality? Where is the honesty about what taxes we will have to suffer, to pay for this level of stupidity?

Finally, currently EVs and the PHEVs are not contributing to the Land Transport Fund, if the NZ fleet is converted to electric, how do they propose to fix the finance deficit the Fund would experience? I know from my professional experience NZTA, has not done any work on evolving the future shape of the Land Transport Fund for electric vehicles. Where is the thinking by the Greens on this issue?

National/Act must shout it and make it clear, that a Labour/Green government after 17th October,
will ensure NZ is the Venezuela of the South Pacific, end of story!

The only way to prevent this is two ticks blue!!
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September 30, 2020 8:57am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  The Greens are totally mad, as is anyone who would even think about voting for them.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:30am
  - krazykiwi
    
    In my experience, Green voters typically have low-to-zero critical thinking skills. For them it’s all about ideals, and equally about dismissing any rationality that challenges those ideals. Collectively they are dangerous zealots who threaten the health and welfare of New Zealanders.
    
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    September 30, 2020 9:41am
  - kowtow
    
    The Greens are bad , their voters mad.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:20am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Better start learning Mandarin.
  
  If labour and the greens get back in, the only thing that will save us is the inevitable “white knight” offer of membership in Belt and Road.
  
  Chinese investment will build our infrastructure.
  
  The upside of course is that the irritating socialists will be the first against the wall! Nothing if not practical our Chinese masters.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:32am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    确实是的.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:04am
    - Jack5
      
      Or should that be:
      
      确
      实
      是
      的
      
      Asking
      for
      a
      friend.
      
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      September 30, 2020 10:20am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        I think the Modern trend is left-to-right horizontal.
        
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        September 30, 2020 11:07am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Maggy is correct 🙂
        
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        September 30, 2020 11:16am
      - Jack5
        
        Looking at the Taipei Times, Taiwan’s favourite newspaper confirms that left-to-right is the modern mode. Thank you, Maggy and Benedict.
        
        Meanwhile, in New Zealand English, narrow vertical signs once had words, such as firm’s names, written vertical style, top to bottom, like this:
        
        K
        i
        w
        i
        b
        l
        o
        g
        
        The trend, even the norm, is for them now to be written as though the sign was painted while horizontal, then turned on its side with the word starting at the bottom.
        
        This is usually harder to read at a glance.
        
        So the horizontal trend appears to be widespread in the world.
        
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        September 30, 2020 1:19pm
- Gulag1917
  
  The Greens are too emotional to think logically.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:33am
- Flossie
  
  Agree 100% with all that HK. But would add that even EVs need actual roads which those airy fairy greenies do not want to fund.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:38am
- JackRabbit
  
  All good points which Labour and Greens don’t know the answers to, and consider them ‘minor technical details’.
  
  They won’t embrace Nuclear, and brakes are on building new Dams. With faster recharge times, your average Battery fill up station will need an instantaneous peak power delivery capability in megawatts.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:18am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    The green policies would also price low to middle income earners out of cars. I think that is intentional. Their policies are utterly vile.
    
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    September 30, 2020 11:17am
    - Ruahine
      
      Their policy is to get people out of personal transport. Cars are about freedom. The green Communists are not.
      
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      September 30, 2020 12:21pm
Catgurl13

Scrap’s on tonight…..looking forward to it. Go Judith, unleash your inner crusher!!
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September 30, 2020 9:02am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  dont forget 2pm today and the us presidential debates.
  
  not very often theres 2 opportunities in 1 day to watch leftards heads explode.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:47am
Lee C

I’m a bit of a swing voter Maggie.

But what are swing voters interested in?

job security
paying the mortgage
food on the table
being a positive role-model for their kids
not being told what size light-bulbs/shower-heads (you name it) they are ‘allowed.
competent government
honest government
equality of opportunity
not being picked on.

The Leader’s debate is very relevant. I predict another blizzard coming.

And it will be all over the LPNZ.

The veil’s slippin’ and the clock’s ticking…..
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September 30, 2020 9:02am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Fair enough Lee. It’s just my partner, he’s got no interest whatsoever in any of that stuff.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:08am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Bloody hell. I wish it was only shower heads we were being dictated to about.
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:18am
  - marcw
    
    Don’t forget the fruit stickers, cotton buds and plastic spoons.
    
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    September 30, 2020 11:27am
    - Flossie
      
      What’s the plan about disposable nappies? Quite possibly a bigger problem than cotton buds!
      
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      September 30, 2020 12:20pm
Simon

Todd Muller has major mental health issues. Yet no horrific violent out of control crime spree. Strange.
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September 30, 2020 9:03am
- RJ
  
  What a pathetic comment to make and an insult too everyone who has had or has a mental illness.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:26am
- wimpston peeeders
  
  [Deleted and banned from posting until after the election – belittling and making fun of anyone’s mental health is NOT acceptable, and this applies to all those posting here. Mods.]
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:45am
- Batman
  
  Simon you bottom feeder, anxiety and depression aren’t generally associated with such things.
  
  A disgusting comment from you, as the downticks show.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:33am
  - Simon
    
    Taken the wrong way. As you well know.
    
    Mental health issues like depression is routinely “wrongly” blamed for individuals committing crime. Rather than anyones personal morality.
    
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    September 30, 2020 1:45pm
Kiwi_in_Paris

The same thing is happening to the UK as in New Zealand, where the governments are taking away powers from district councils, and Mayors, to form a central power:

https://preview.redd.it/a6c1ukudb6p51.jpg?width=640&height=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=34f215dafa8c43ed5e358e6c3f41bbecb976b011
8 2
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September 30, 2020 9:15am
- chukar
  
  K in P
  They are not removing Councils powers to rate ,regulate and generally bully the populace though.
  
  Individuals rights are being lost in ever increasing ways.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:39am
Critical Thinker

?BREAKING?: US Director of National Intelligence Confirms Clinton Cooked Up Trump-Russian Collusion Hoax And Obama Knew

On July 26, 2016, U.S. intel authorities learned that Russian intel knew of Hillary Clinton’s plans to cook up a scandal alleging that Trump was working with Russia. Obama was personally briefed on Russia’s knowledge of Clinton’s plans.

On September 7, 2016, U.S. intel officials sent an investigative referral to James Comey and Peter Strzok about Clinton’s election interference plan–and Russia’s knowledge of it. We now know the Steele dossier was entirely a product of Russian agents and intel officials.

Christopher Steele, the Clinton campaign subcontractor who compiled the dossier, was working for a sanctioned Russian oligarch. So was Fusion GPS. And we learned this week that the dossier’s “primary sub-source” was a Russian intel asset who was deemed a national security threat.

Today’s declassification confirms that from the beginning, the FBI knew its anti-Trump investigation was based entirely on Russian disinformation. Brennan and Comey were personally warned. They responded by fabricating evidence and defrauding the courts.
https://twitter.com/seanmdav/status/1311023271400402947

#TREASON
Nothing can stop what is coming.
Enjoy the show ??
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September 30, 2020 9:16am
- Batman
  
  Breaking: resident QAnon quack now fully on-boarded and reciting disinformation.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:34am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    “To be clear, this is not Russian disinformation and has not been assessed as such by the intelligence community. I’ll be briefing Congress on the sensitive sources and methods by which it was obtained in the coming days.” – Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe
    
    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/obama-was-briefed-on-unverified-russian-report-claiming-clinton-approved-plan-to-tie-trump-to-putin-and-dnc-hack
    
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    September 30, 2020 11:35am
- virtualmark
  
  So the DNI has publicly released what he acknowledges is untested 2016 Russian intelligence chatter that was intended to raise derogatory questions about Hillary Clinton — which of course was Russia’s goal when it was doing the chattering.
  
  Right. News at 10.
  
  All this really goes to show is just how thoroughly Russia owns the GOP – in 2016 they had to use their Wikileaks front to launder their disinformation but in 2020 they can get the Director of National Intelligence to do it instead.
  
  You guys really need to read more about Donald’s history with the Russian mob and Russian intelligence, which goes back to at least the mid-1980s. And read more about the Smartech hack.
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:15am
  - virtualmark
    
    I’m old enough to remember when US Presidential candidates didn’t want Russian intelligence to support them …
    
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    September 30, 2020 11:33am
    - Batman
      
      Literally Russian intelligence chatter.
      
      So the Trump truthers are now quite literally spreading Russian intel.
      
      Oh the irony would be so sweet, if irony hadn’t already been thoroughly killed off already.
      
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      September 30, 2020 1:54pm
Batman

Happy debate day everyone! Here is a treat from the ‘there’s always a tweet’ file:

“I suspect @JoeBiden could do well tonight. Don’t be fooled by his gaffes. He is a seasoned and feisty debater.” – Donald John Trump, 12 October 2012.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/256466457968381955?s=19
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September 30, 2020 9:21am
- krazykiwi
  
  Must be awful to have vindication of ones hatred of Trump at the mercy of someone as cognitively impaired as Biden. The helplessness of it all. I feel for you, Batman 😉
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:32am
  - Batman
    
    Oh thanks! Much appreciated. I’ll be sure to use your support to get through the hardship of Biden’s ten point lead and leading white women by 15…
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:35am
  - fernglas
    
    Hatred is such a strong word, don’t you think. I prefer “distaste”.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:53am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Yes, a fair challenge. ‘Distaste’ is more tasteful.
      
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      September 30, 2020 4:30pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  8 years ago, when he was still allowed out by himself!
  
  This debate is gonna be brutal. All Trump has to do is needle him till he loses his rag, then it will be all on – unless the man behind the curtain is reading the speech notes out.
  
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  September 30, 2020 9:34am
  - Batman
    
    Deity, yes it was eight years ago, back when Trump wasn’t as deranged as he is now.
    
    All Biden has to do is needle the famously unable to take a joke Trump until he loses it and then it will be all on.
    
    Anyone making firm predictions does so at their own risk, especially if you have been drinking the Maga kool aid about Biden. The GOP even put out talking points yesterday which now talk up Biden as a debater.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:38am
  - geoff3012
    
    Both had agreed to have ears inspected for devices just before kick off…..Biden has now refused…so know doubt Killary will be in his ear….
    
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    September 30, 2020 12:12pm
    - Batman
      
      That’s a completely unproven claim from the Trump campaign. Of course.
      
      The idea originated from QAnon, from a TV appearance that Biden did.
      
      So now we know the level of intelligence going into Trump’s debate prep, which is to say, not a lot.
      
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      September 30, 2020 12:21pm
- Fletch
  
  I see that Joe Biden’s campaign agreed to an inspection for electronic ear pieces at tonight’s debate several days ago but are now declining In other words, Biden could be parroting what he is told to say. He also wants a break in the debate every 30 minutes….
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:30am
- JibberJabber
  
  The meme game on the Twitter is great…
  https://twitter.com/stridermemes/status/1311010757257998337
  
  Just a shame the Left can’t meme, having their sense of humour removed and being constantly triggered by reality and all. ?
  
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  September 30, 2020 12:13pm
  - Batman
    
    Hahaha that’s not a meme, old man (this references an actual meme).
    
    But yes that is at least funny and not a rather disturbing set of lies which what you usually see from the Trump side.
    
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    September 30, 2020 12:19pm
    - JibberJabber
      
      This one is even better,
      
      https://twitter.com/Solmemes1/status/1310943340985225219
      
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      September 30, 2020 12:30pm
Jack5

What is it with Infratil and New Zealand’s name and symbols?

Its founder, the late Lloyd Morrison, was perhaps the most passionate of those wanting to change New Zealand’s flag.

Now Vodafone NZ, half-owned by Infratil, seems near the top of the mob wanting to change the name of New Zealand to Aotearoa.

Vodafone last year sold its New Zealand arm to a consortium.

It’s now half-owned by Infratil with all but a smidgen of the balance owned by Singapore investment group BIF IV ICN Holdings Pte. Ltd.

The Hooerald says “Vodafone Aotearoa” is now popping up on cellphone screens. Not on my cheap burner. Still says “Vodafone NZ”.

Perhaps there’s a cultural link to “Aotearoa” for cellphone companies, however. Maori were given, free, a share of the wireless spectrum for cellphones. Wags suggested this was to acknowledge Maori use of radio direction finding in the great canoes’ drift to New Zealand.

The Hooerald’s Maori affairs reporter writes today: “Two of the country’s biggest companies will use Aotearoa in their names rather than New Zealand.”

The second company appears to be the advertising firm, DDB Group.

One of New Zealand’s biggest companies? Only at the Hooerald.
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September 30, 2020 9:23am
- Cantabrian
  
  As far as I know, the legal name of this country remains New Zealand. What is the status of the Maori name in legal proceedings?
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:06am
  - Jack5
    
    Perhaps there will be new law, too. As in the Status of Children Act 1969.
    
    Has that helped with problems like family violence?
    
    https://teara.govt.nz/en/te-ture-maori-and-legislation/
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:32am
    - Jack5
      
      11.40 am and the Hooerald web site has highlighted the article about the Vodafone Maori name with a red banner.
      
      Earlier I didn’t notice this at the bottom of the article. It’s about the advertising agency, DDB, which the Hooerald has promoted to be one of New Zealand’s biggest companies:
      
      CEO Justin Mowday said the agency is on a journey and this gesture was an important step.
      
      “When we moved into our new DDB whare early last year, Ngati Whatua Orakei kaumatua honoured us by blessing the building and giving us a real sense of context and grounding on this whenua.”
      
      A journey? Then DDB should watch out for taniwha along the way.
      
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      September 30, 2020 10:46am
      - Jack5
        
        Edit: ~~11.40~~ 10.40am.
        
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        September 30, 2020 10:58am
- Batman
  
  Sounds like sour grapes, Jack
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:43am
  - Jack5
    
    Kawa kerepe, taikoroua ? pekapeka.?
    
    Well, I gave it a shot.
    
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    September 30, 2020 10:54am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Tell us how the bad te reo hurt you, Jack.
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:01am
  - Jack5
    
    Maori language isn’t the problem, Milky. It’s the Woke Wombles who are shoving it down everyone’s throat.
    
    A bit like the Latin-in-schools fanatics who, in contrast with what they wanted, all but killed love and interest in that language.
    
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    September 30, 2020 12:54pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    We live in a democracy. If the majority of New Zealanders want to change our name to Aotearoa I’m fine with that. But it has to be us that decide, not some bureaucrats/politicians or corporate boards.
    
    I don’t like the deliberate undermining of our democracy.
    
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    September 30, 2020 1:31pm
    - Batman
      
      Te Reo is an official language. It’s not a name change unless one just really hates other cultures…
      
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      September 30, 2020 1:32pm
      - Jack5
        
        Not sure where hatred comes into this, Batman.
        
        The New Zealand Geographic Board is officially changing official names by the score. This mostly entails changing an English-language name to a joint Maori-English name, or to a purely Maori name.
        
        The board uses the description: “Changes to New Zealand place names.”
        
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        September 30, 2020 1:56pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        It’s an abuse. Maori have already been paid sufficient.
        
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        September 30, 2020 2:00pm
    - RJ
      
      If a business wants to put Aotearoa into their company branding, that is their decision. Couldn’t care if the government does the same thing, far more important things in life.
      
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      September 30, 2020 2:02pm
- Ruahine
  
  It is because of all of the ‘government’ money that they are getting.
  
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  September 30, 2020 12:50pm
Lee C

https://youtu.be/IJyNoJCAuzA
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September 30, 2020 9:24am
C-Town

On the leaders debate tonight, if Patrick Gower tries to challenge Judith Collins on Capital Gains Taxes (like John Campbell did last week) she should just say that putting a tax on something makes it more expensive which would be a good opportunity to explain how expensive rents and houses have got in the last 3 years.

And if discussing tax cuts and Jacinda Ardern says that someone as wealthy as her doesn’t need a tax cut, instead of saying “give it back” which sounds a bit snarky, Judith should suggest that the money can be used to invest in local businesses and reviving the economy which is what the tax cuts are for Or give it to charity if you’re feeling guilty.
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September 30, 2020 9:37am
- alex Masterley
  
  C-Town,
  the correct response to JA’s comment that she doesn’t need a tax cut is to point out she isnt getting one.
  The Nats tax cuts stop at a point well short of what the PM is paid.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:58am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    She does get one, it’s just a tiny portion of her massive (and unearned) salary.
    
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    September 30, 2020 1:19pm
wimpston peeeders

Well mark richardson can be a douche at times but great burn on stuffed this morning.

talking about disapearing words etc and discussing the word Balderdash, marks reply was “in nz weve replaced balderdash with stuff.co.nz”
Spot on mark 🙂
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September 30, 2020 9:39am
lastmanstanding

The Andrews Victorian Government passed legislation at the behest of the Unions to punish employers who injured or killed their workers.
Pollies and civil servants arent exempt.

As a result of the security guards at hotels catching CV and passing it on resulting in over 700 deaths I can see litigation funders and lawyers lining up to sue the Government the pollies and the civil servants for ginormous amounts of money.
Andrews the other pollies and the civil servants are all playing “I cant remember” even though there is already TV footage tapes and emails out there with them in the frame.
Gonna be popcorn time soon!!
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September 30, 2020 9:41am
Happychappy

I wonder whether our Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern offered a Knighthood to Winston Peter’s to get Ihumatoa over the line before the Election. I’m asking this question as Winston Peter’s has said he has been offered one in his Political career along with Ambassadorships and turned them down.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/09/nz-election-2020-winston-peters-claims-he-once-turned-down-a-knighthood.html
It is strange this has happened as only Piggy Muldoon has recieved a Knighthood while still in office and for Winston Peters to claim this on Duncan Garner show this morning is a bit unusual and something surely he could get caught out on. Watch this space.
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September 30, 2020 10:01am
- peterwn
  
  Keith Holyoake received a knighthood while in office. That knighthood was listed in the British honours list rather than the NZ honours list. He had previously turned down a knighthood (probably initiated in Britain) and Her Majesty apparently asked him why.
  Possibly Rob Muldoon’s knighthood was also on the British honours list since there is some conflict of interest where an incumbent NZ PM is offered an honour on the NZ list.
  There is nothing to stop Winston being offered a knighthood on the NZ list and he indeed may well have turned one down in the past. Of course anyone can ‘sponsor’ Winston for a knighthood and it would go through the normal process which involves the PM. There could be an incentive to offer him a knighthood to shut him up. There are precedents for awarding knighthoods to deal with awkward situations. In UK Henry Bessemer was awarded a knighthood after being made redundant from a Government position. He subsequently invented a process for manufacturing steel which was an improvement on iron.
  
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  September 30, 2020 12:13pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Maybe he offered himself one?
  
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  September 30, 2020 1:17pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ihumatao is already over the line. The land is Fletchers–they have the registered title.
  
  Where did the PM get the authority to uphold the seizure of Ihumatao? Is it proper for a sworn member of HM’s Executive to boldly disobey the laws of the Realm? Is there more to come? Why don’t the Police do their duty and arrest the illegal occupiers?
  
  Unless the basic laws of NZ are to be kept and enforced by this govt we may as well start growing bananas.
  
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  September 30, 2020 1:57pm
RF

Going by comments I have read, if Ardern manages to scrape home on Election Day it’s going to be 3 years of a very rocky road for her.

Look forward to public unrest that I believe will signal a change at the top with Ardern off to the UN and Grant taking over.
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September 30, 2020 10:06am
- Bobba Fret
  
  If Ardern gets to form government this October, I do not think she will stay for the full three years. In fact it has probably already been discussed which is why Robertson has such a smug look on his face lately thinking that NZ will get its first gay PM soon.
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:16am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    He won’t be gay any longer if he retains his job or the PM’s. The next one in Office is going to find it very difficult with the global economy falling to pieces. It’s going to take the nous available which rules out anyone on the COL benches.
    
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    September 30, 2020 1:49pm
    - Inandout
      
      Kev, why can’t people realise the Middle East will not accept Grant and all negotiations will need to be done through a third party; it is called the elephant in the room.
      
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      September 30, 2020 2:18pm
JulieBabe

The Newshub leaders poll (their daily one)
Has Colins / Seymour ahead with 60%
to Ardern and Shaw 40%

Maybe the worm has turned
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September 30, 2020 10:07am
- fernglas
  
  Maybe the right watches TV3
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:50am
  - Paulus
    
    We know Patrick will be the winner tonight Tova has arranged it.
    
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    September 30, 2020 2:18pm
Littletramp

I am looking forward to seeing the birth rates for January to March 2021 quarter, 9 months after lockdowns.
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September 30, 2020 10:13am
Maggy Wassilieff

Jacinda Ardern is asked to correct the record.

Vote 2020: Judith Collins sends warning to Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern ahead of leaders’ debate
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12369031
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September 30, 2020 10:14am
- RW Capitalist
  
  A little desperation by Ardern…what are there polls telling them?
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:00am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Like anyone (other than Tova), it is clear to see the trend in the polls. Act/Nats increasing, Lab decreasing, Greens staying about the same. Labour will be pushing to get people out early and vote asap to avoid crowds / due to Covid etc. before more slippage in their popularity.
    
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    September 30, 2020 11:20am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Right on. Go on Judith stick it to Cindy she deserves it smug nasty piece of works that she is.
  
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  September 30, 2020 12:08pm
Bullion

National overstates benefit of NZ tax cut plan

Goldsmith’s office said this figure was based on the most recent figures from the Stats NZ Quarterly Employment Survey, which shows the average income is $1,231.34 a week, or $64,206 a year.

A person earning this income would receive $3227 under the tax cuts.

However, Stats NZ’s Household Labour Force Survey shows the median income for wage and salary earners was $1060 a week, or $55,271 a year.

A person on the median income would receive $1772 under the tax cuts.

The median is the point at which half of earners receive less and half receive more. Stats NZ says “greater emphasis has been put on medians, because extremely high or low incomes tend to have less influence on median amounts than they do on an average (mean) figure”.

Stats NZ statistical data analyst Jessica Honey said the Quarterly Employment Survey which National used to calculate the average income “isn’t recommended as an annual income measure”.

“It excludes business owners, the self-employed, and industries like farming and NZDF’s military branches,” she told AAP FactCheck.

“It also represents a pay week in the middle of each quarter, so can miss short-term jobs, while counting people with multiple jobs several times.”

Honey recommended using the latest Household Economic Survey data which showed the average income for all those aged 15 and over was $47,048 and the median income was $33,280 (Table 3).

Using this measure, both those on the average and the median income would receive $560 under National’s tax cuts.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/427213/national-overstates-benefit-of-nz-tax-cut-plan
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September 30, 2020 10:15am
- adaman
  
  IT’s a bit dogdy using 15 years old as the base age isn’t it? Considering most, if not all 15 year olds are supposed to be in schooling at that age. Not only that but large enough populations till age 21-22 are in some form of study.
  
  Perhaps looking at median full time earnings would be a much better measure. Otherwise you skew the figures with a whole bunch of part time school/uni students. Off memory – median full time earnings are around $52,000. Which means the benefits are a hell of a lot higher than the $560 being stated in the article.
  
  A bit dodgy there from that Stats NZ representative.
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:01am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Q:
  Hypothetically
  If every wage earner got $5 extra per week in a tax cut. How many extra employees would Griffins have to employ, if they all bought a packet of biscuits?
  Answer that, then you may actually understand the economy and National will thank you for your vote.
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:05am
  - Bullion
    
    Higher income earners are not spending, their spending is down but middle and low income earners are spending more.
    
    So, why not give most of the tax cuts to the lower two thirds of income earners rather than the upper third that would get ~80% of the value of the tax cuts.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/122919614/rich-getting-richer-higher-earners-cutting-spending-paying-down-debt-data-shows
    
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    September 30, 2020 1:09pm
- Short Shriveled and Slightly to the Left
  
  RNZ aims for low intelligence folk with their incredible bias – average is “mean” – National used a mean….so what’s the issue? oh yeah the issue is National are gaining ground so RNZ has work to do
  
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  September 30, 2020 2:38pm
Maggie Pie

Here’s something I thort worth sharing with the group

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EgXYCb1WsAEBv6u?format=jpg&name=small

Did you know that those little ‘notches’ on your F and J keys are to assist blind people when they type?
Bet you hadn’t even noticed them till you just looked 😀
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September 30, 2020 10:17am
- RW Capitalist
  
  In the old days
  When my mother tried to teach me to type
  She said
  Lay the fingers of your left hand on the letters
  A S D F
  Lay the fingers of your right hand on the keys
  ; L K J
  then all other keys are within reach of the appropriate finger…then you learn to type using all your fingers……
  BTW…..I failed.
  
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  September 30, 2020 10:56am
- rockape
  
  Do I have to poke my eyes out for them to be of any use to me?\
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:31am
- Fletch
  
  I thought it was an indicator for every typist, blind or not, that their fingers were back on the ‘home’ keys. Because real touch typists don’t look at their fingers as they type (unlike me). AFAIK blind people don’t type on a regular keyboard?
  
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  September 30, 2020 12:35pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    I was in China. Went to a Net cafe and watched people typing the chicken foot stuff. Given that a typical vocab is about 3500 characters this seemed a bit hard as a concept as there are only about 100 keys. They have the characters grouped in some systematic fashion so that you hit a keyboard key which generates a menu that you go down which generates another menu and so on. I’m not quite sure how deep it goes. Eventually you end up at the character you want.
    
    And there were people touch-typing ….. not looking at the screen. Some of them seemed to be doing like five characters a second …..
    
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    December 30, 2018 12:48pm
    - Jack5
      
      Most English-language keyboards have some sort of mark moulded into the “f” key, and touch typists, aware or not, use it as a marker.
      
      I’ve had heaps of keyboards, and the only one without such a marker is a modern clone I have of the famous IBM Model M, with buckling-spring keys.
      
      Perhaps the Chinese have some sort of tactile symbol on some of their many keys, to help touch typists through the symbols, which, and Benedict would know, seem to be called Hanzi.
      
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      September 30, 2020 1:41pm
- Piniwi
  
  Sorry MP to burst your bubble but this not something new at all and has been on type righters/keyboards in some form for a very long time. It is also the starting point for learning to type starting with FFF Space for left hand and JJJ for right hand. Letters are typed with index fingers of LH for F and the thumb for Space bar then RH for JJJ and RH thumb for Space bar. This is a primary lesson when learning touch typing according to my wife who’s first job was teaching typing. Early versions were a bump/lump on the relevant keys of the type righter. But it is no doubt something new for a lot of people.
  
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  September 30, 2020 3:26pm
Maggie Pie

“It’s simple. We are Aotearoa.”
– Vodafone

Hello…..hello….. are you there?
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September 30, 2020 10:56am
- Inandout
  
  Three hours later…hello…is that Vodafone…? That is the reason I have never joined their ‘services’.
  
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  September 30, 2020 2:10pm
Rusty

A labour/Greens coalition govt is not worth thinking about.

Is this what the average Kiwi wants?

Well the PM really cares about our health and well being and the Greens really care about our environment.

This is what most Kiwis think, but if the people of this country knew the real ideology behind the Labour and Greens and there plans to radically change NZ’s society on every level — I just wonder if they would vote for them.
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September 30, 2020 11:15am
greenfinger

“In NZ, anyone can do what I do.” So what is it that the “Poor Wee Thing“ do? Nothing! Absolutely nothing! It would great sarcasm if it wasn’t her that said it. The travesty of it all is that some numb-nuts think she somehow deserves consideration for the bomb-maker peace prize despite her litany of failures in the last three years. That said, The peace prize lost all credibility with the public this year given the nominations included a US tax dodger and a seventeen year old school dropout. Not quite the who’s who glamour list, is it?
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September 30, 2020 11:17am
- RJ
  
  In New Zealand anyone can run for selection and get into politics. Good thing about this country, we are a country where people can achieve their dreams and goals.
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:38am
greenfinger

Game night tonight. The cheese smile, tilt of the head and go early and go hard from the Princess is getting soooo boring.
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September 30, 2020 11:17am
- greybeard
  
  I will be watching the PM fiddling with her earplug.
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:40am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    I hope they keep them apart physically again. I know people were complaining last time but seriously, I worry for Judith’s safety with Jacinda’s arm waiving theatrics.
    
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    September 30, 2020 1:11pm
- Allan
  
  As well as extremely irritating, Ardern is painful to watch with her faux pas concerned look and frowns. That on top of her continual lies are not good for my blood pressure at all. A total flake with no substance.
  
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  September 30, 2020 12:29pm
  - Unity
    
    I’ve long said it. Ardern is a health risk for me. My hackles rise every time she speaks and her diction is terrible.
    
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    September 30, 2020 2:36pm
fernglas

If every fat bastard had knocked 500 grams off their weight each week since lockdown started, there would be no obese people left to make up the bulk of Covid 19 victims. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/29/health/covid-obesity.html
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September 30, 2020 11:20am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I decided to undertake the Swim to Mahia challenge
  (swim 45.5km in 2 months) to lose some fat, as there’s all these articles on swimming to reduce weight….
  
  For $50 I had entry to the Olympic Pool from 1 Aug-to today…..(30 Sept)
  
  Took me 6 weeks to swim 45.6 km… (one woman did it in 2 weeks)…. and as I still had free swims available, I kept going until I’d reached my age in km….67.2km yesterday.
  
  Weight result:
  1 August – 73kg
  30 September – 73kg.
  
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  September 30, 2020 11:52am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Is it OK to ask how tall you are Maggs?
    (just i wouldn’t want to be accused by Batman of fatist profiling)
    
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    September 30, 2020 12:34pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I’m 6′ 1″ with my boots on
      https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRKcQS1XJVl1bX9QaBoFrvXUjZQii_gPpHE2Q&usqp=CAU
      
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      September 30, 2020 12:46pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        OMG….. i love those!
        Where did you get them?
        The thing I really get a big kick out of, is still wearing my old Boarding School blazer. It’s amazing how many guys come up to me just to read the motto on the breast pocket.
        
        8 1
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        September 30, 2020 1:12pm
      - sooty
        
        Maggie Pie. You are meant to wear your shirt under the blazer!
        
        2 0
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        September 30, 2020 8:04pm
  - cmm
    
    One of the big problems with those “people lost more fat swimming/walking/whatever” studies is that the results differ according to many factors – including BMI.
    
    My understanding of the fat reduction benefits of swimming are limited, but the way I understand it, swimming is mainly beneficial for very obese people which you clearly are not – even if you doubled the boots.
    
    6 0
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    September 30, 2020 1:24pm
Fletch

According to the Wall Street Journal, the Biden’s set up an S-Corporation to avoid paying $500,000 in levies for Medicare and ObamaCare.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-the-bidens-dodged-the-payroll-tax-11597083162

Site is paywalled, but Breitbart reports on it –

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/28/joe-biden-allegedly-exploited-s-corporation-loophole-to-avoid-paying-medicare-social-security-taxes/

According to what I have read, Joe Biden wrote and voted on the tax law loophole from which he benefited.
10 2
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September 30, 2020 11:41am
Fletch

More cheating by Democrats with vote harvesting. It’s always the Democrats.

https://amgreatness.com/2020/09/28/bidens-texas-political-director-implicated-in-massive-mail-in-ballot-harvesting-scheme-in-harris-county/

It’s a game of whack-a-mole to stop the cheating going on everywhere.
13 2
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September 30, 2020 11:44am
- Batman
  
  To use the favoured tactic of Trumpland, it’s all anonymous sources and is total total fake news coordinated smear campaign.
  
  Funny how the only actual recent case of election fraud was NC9 by the Republican party.
  
  3 16
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  September 30, 2020 12:07pm
Benedict Yu

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300120318https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/300120318/plans-under-way-for-transtasman-travel-bubble-with
/ent
“plans underway” for a travel bubble with Australia.

And when you read the article and what she says it is clear it is all hot air.

I notice that she told Australia TV today that New Zealand “went hard went early”. I guess if you keep saying it is true.

No Taiwan went early, and intelligently. New Zealand did nothing, then stupid things, then panicked.
20 1
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September 30, 2020 11:59am
Batman

And this debate fun begins, the Trump campaign accidentally sent out the post-debate email a few hours too soon…

https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1311068232976080896?s=19

It does not claim that Trump won.
5 7
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September 30, 2020 12:09pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Isn’t political psychology a wonderful thing.
  
  5 0
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  September 30, 2020 1:02pm
  - Batman
    
    All fun and games until one side starts questioning election results on unfounded grounds!
    
    Particularly enjoying Biden’s earphone and ice cream joke!
    
    3 7
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    September 30, 2020 1:29pm
kwkiwigirl

Just heard that Auckland University are trying, for the third time, to hold the graduation ceremonies 2-4 November. The third date proposed. Subject to Ardern granting level 1 to Auckland.

These ceremonies have already been postponed twice. So everyone’s travel plans messed up twice. For graduates and their families, not to mention the universities, this is a mess of a situation being caused by Ardern’s government locking down Auckland to unneccesssry levels.

I really feel for the unis trying to make ends meet under the lockdown regime of Ardern and co. All that is going to happen is a massive uni bailout is going to be necessary and fairly imminent I’d say.

Anyone who has been to an Auckland hotel or Queen St retailer can see that these businesses have been bought to their knees from the lockdowns due to the lack of commercial experience of Ardern and Robertson, who have only ever worked as bureaucrats in the public sector.

Message to Ardern: lift level 2 lockdown to level 1 immediately and stop d*cking around several thousand families wanting to see their children graduate this year. (these are the same people Labour tries to buy out every election with student allowance bribes).

Not to mention giving the unis certainty of planning and all the Auckland travel related businesses that will benefit from the graduation ceremonies going ahead.
12 2
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September 30, 2020 12:33pm
- kowtow
  
  Universities are in the vanguard of groupthink , the antithesis of what they should be.
  
  Situation is hard on the graduates , but bugger the bureaucrats who run those palaces of mediocrity.
  
  4 3
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  September 30, 2020 2:21pm
  - kwkiwigirl
    
    I was thinking more in terms of families who have put their kids through uni so they aren’t a burden on society later on down the track.
    
    4 0
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    September 30, 2020 4:33pm
Maggie Pie

Just caught the News headlines on Magic Talk.
Sounds like the number of reported historic abuse cases relating to Dilworth, have now taken precedent over those of Covid-19.
12 1
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September 30, 2020 1:43pm
Fletch

The debate on now, Biden resorting to insult “just shut up” etc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cathmZFeXs
7 2
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September 30, 2020 2:22pm
- fernglas
  
  Neither of them seems capable of sticking to the topic; they’re as bad as each other
  
  5 0
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  September 30, 2020 2:45pm
Benedict Yu

I just discovered that the State Services Commission is now “Te Kawa Mataaho Public Service Commission”.

https://www.publicservice.govt.nz/about-us/
9 1
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September 30, 2020 5:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Apparently Wallace cut off Trump 38 times and Biden 3 times. Wallace is a Trump hating Democrat and he thinks nobody knows
11 3
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September 30, 2020 5:35pm
- fernglas
  
  Maybe Trump is a loudmouthed boor who doesn’t know when to keep his gob shut
  
  1 2
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  September 30, 2020 9:10pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Now if you don’t have a sense of humour (most lefties) and you have severe TDS, go to the basement and get your Mummy to lock the door. Put on your special jacket, you know the one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyDRa4rGogc&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR38Aw_4cGQwWvV0jE6kMc3rzhleYZaqcaNmvgSWBN9FU3MHOzIHft5bsf4
6 2
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September 30, 2020 5:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

If you are wearing a mask inside your car, Im gonna go ahead and assume it is to control the urge to lick the windows.
Baaa, think about it
9 2
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September 30, 2020 6:36pm
Fletch

Johnny Rotten wears MAGA shirt and Twitter loses it….lol

https://twitter.com/GrowtheFKUP/status/1310612546357997570
5 2
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September 30, 2020 6:43pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  And doesn’t do much to improve the status of ginga’s, either.
  
  LOL!!
  
  6 1
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  September 30, 2020 7:07pm
Happychappy

Jacinda deciding nastyness is the way to go against Judith Collins in Newshub debate tonight but Paddy Gower seems to want to be the star tonight.
16 0
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September 30, 2020 7:49pm
bc

Jacinda must have listened to the post debate analysis from the last debate as she is a lot more feisty this time.
12 0
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September 30, 2020 7:59pm
- hullkiwi
  
  But she is still losing. Very little of substance coming out of this debate, except Jacinda has nothing to offer.
  
  19 0
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  September 30, 2020 8:43pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Paddy beats John Campbell hands down.
20 0
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September 30, 2020 8:32pm
surfing

How on earth did Patrick Gower get a job on tv? He is truly truly awful.
10 5
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September 30, 2020 8:48pm
Aunty

Judith has given Jacinda an ass whooping tonight. Her (Jacinda’s) butt cheeks must be as red as her jacket!
14 0
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September 30, 2020 9:13pm

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