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October 8, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 08 October 2020

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krazykiwi

The Swiss are noted for method and accuracy. More so Swiss scientists and medical professionals. But even they must at times tire of using boring, accurate language. Dr Beda Stadler is a Swiss molecular biologist and former director of the Institute for Immunology at the University of Bern. He’s a published expert in the fields of allergology and autoimmunity and applied research for the production of recombinant human or artificial antibodies. Heavy stuff, but fortunately he’s able to express things in language we can all understand. To wit:

Those young and healthy people who currently walk around with a mask on their faces would be better off wearing a helmet instead, because the risk of something falling on their head is greater than that of getting a serious case of Covid-19.

Love it. Here are another 10 medical professionals with fully referenced quotes questioning the Covid-19 fear-porn pandemic.
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October 8, 2020 8:00am
- Cinematic
  
  No other virus can get a gig in this town.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:08am
  - igm
    
    MSM will not let go of it, along with promoting Ardern, and her dysfunctional band of followers.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:25am
    - Gulag1917
      
      Promoting Cindy to help make New Zealand the social laboratory of the world again.
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:23am
- RW Capitalist
  
  My thoughts went to
  If wearing a mask on a bus protects you…how did the bus driver in Auckland, who was wearing a mask all day, get covid19…
  another impertinent question
  If, while wearing a mask, someone sneezes near you, do the particles settle on the mask, contaminating it and forcing you to change said mask?
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:10am
  - NoFax
    
    Wearing a mask does not protect a person from getting Covid-19 rather the idea is that it slows the spread because the mask wearer reduces his or her chance from passing it on. Of course this does require people to wear the mask correctly and not touch the face part etc.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:27am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Pathogens are disbursed via aerosols and masks are utterly useless for stopping this transport. The only thing that does is a bio hazmat suit. Masks do stop droplets which unlike aerosols respond quickly to gravity and drop.
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:31am
      - SB2
        
        krazykiwi, your wrong. Face masks by themselves are not the answer. But are used in combination with other preventative measures like social distancing, hand washing and other personal hygiene measures.
        
        https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
        
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        October 8, 2020 11:00am
      - Pharmachick
        
        But gawd, have you ever tried to get on a bus in a Hazmat suit?
        
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        October 8, 2020 11:30am
      - krazykiwi
        
        SB2, aerosol carried pathogens go through masks like water goes through sieves. It’s called physics. Do some research
        
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        October 8, 2020 1:33pm
  - alloytoo
    
    I think the virus is known to enter through your eyes.
    
    Apparently spectacles offer a little protection.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:54am
    - SB2
      
      PPE visors do!
      
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      October 8, 2020 11:01am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Masks are useless, at least in regard to their “official” application as virus prophylactics. They are like those hideous beige neck braces doctors used to (or still?) issue people who have hurt their necks: they don’t protect you, they just keep the fact that you have an injured neck at the front of your mind, and you therefore act accordingly.
      
      If airborne virus particles are an actual problem, then logically, we should all be wearing full breathing appartartus and full eye protection when in public. But I suppose investors in facial recognition technologies would not be very happy – better to just recommend something medically ineffectual but something that fills the need of keeping people on constant edge and eager to be guided.
      
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      October 8, 2020 11:06am
  - fisho
    
    I have similar thoughts about vaping. Quite often I’ve wandered down the street and passed through a fairly large cloud of ‘vaping exhaust’. What’s the likelihood that any pathogens exist within this cloud if someone is affected with Covid or the likes? Not that I’m worried in the least about Covid, but it does provide a great visual example of aerosol distribution.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:43am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  What do you know, 10 more nutters.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:34am
  - Cinematic
    
    Powerful counter argument.
    
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    October 8, 2020 8:37am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      isn’t sarcasm taxed yet?
      
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      October 8, 2020 9:19am
    - fisho
      
      Gold!
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:39am
    - SB2
      
      Cinematice,”Powerful counter argument”
      
      And yours?
      
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      October 8, 2020 11:04am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    and your qualifications for this statement are…????
    
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    October 8, 2020 8:37am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Every one of those 10 ‘nutters’ has more sentient thoughts before breakfast than you’ve managed in your entire lifetime. Be envious.
    
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    October 8, 2020 8:49am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Yes especially the lunatic that thinks he’s immune after 5 minutes.
      
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      October 8, 2020 9:12am
      - rouppe
        
        Could you provide a link to which of the referenced 10 people think they are immune after 5 minutes?
        
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        October 8, 2020 9:41am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      “Now this may seem a pedantic academic remark” what one of them said before going on to argue what a ‘case’ was.
      I guess the argument is that nothing can be taken from 1.000,000 people dead worldwide from Covid 19 because they might not have been a case after all.
      No wonder you don’t front up under your real name. Maybe krazychicken might be more appropriate.
      
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      October 8, 2020 9:20am
      - freethinker
        
        Brian – you are correct in worldwide deaths and that represents a rate of .0387 WHO estimate flu deaths at 650,000 a rate of .013 but unlikely to be accurate as measurements not recorded as well as Covid being a Pandemic. Covid appears to be a deliberately mutated Flu Virus that is more contagious than common flu but probably over hyped – now Bubonic plague is another worry and currently spreading in Mongolia and Russia, untreated kills in 24 hours healthy or not.
        
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        October 8, 2020 9:44am
      - rouppe
        
        Perhaps we when you put those deaths into context with worldwide deaths from all causes 1 million isn’t so significant.
        
        ourworldindata.org/causes-of-death
        
        56 million deaths in 2017. 6.5 million from respiratory and lower respiratory diseases alone.
        
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        October 8, 2020 9:46am
      - SB2
        
        “appears to be a ..”
        
        Evidence other than the musings of the President and other whitehouse officials, Breitbart etc.?
        
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        October 8, 2020 11:07am
      - Pharmachick
        
        @ freethinker – good dose of antibiotics e.g. doxycycline or streptomycin gets rid of plague effectively. But yes, untreated (with drugs) plague has 30 – 90% mortality rate.
        
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        October 8, 2020 11:35am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Until you’ve read their balanced and detailed points, you have no grounds to say that.
    
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    October 8, 2020 8:49am
  - Simon
    
    “What do you know, 10 more nutters.”
    
    Brian don’t live in fear
    
    But its a good reminder that man made climate change is a fraud. The tide gauges say its a fraud.
    
    Wuhan sniffles is political as is climate change.
    
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    October 8, 2020 8:53am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Thanks for your concern Simon. I have never lived in fear of anything.
      There is worldwide concern over Covid that’s all the reminder I need.
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:53am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Isn’t that rule #47 of the dis-information / brainwashing handbook for marxists?
    
    #47 What to do if an an opponent offers a rational truthful piece of data:
    
    1) Never ever debate the specifics – you will always lose.
    
    2) Always attack the credibilty of the opponent’s story. You can do this by digging up some mud. If you can’t find any, create it. Use phrases like “it is alleged”, “it is rumoured”, “that has been debunked a long time ago”. Create doubt in the minds of the public.
    
    3) Attack the opponent directly. Call them a “nutter”,”conspiracy theorist”. It helps to associate something truthful with something the public knows is false. e.g. Oh you are a conspiracy theorist who believes that Covid-19 is a plot, along with being a Climate denier, belief in a flat earth, fake moon landings, and believe Elvis is alive and well, running a fish and chip shop in Morrinsville.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:26am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Actually Elvis is dead sweetheart.
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:54am
      - hookerphil
        
        Since when?
        
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        October 8, 2020 1:36pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        #52
        
        Insult them by condescendingly calling them sweetheart. Works well if they are a man.
        
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        October 8, 2020 3:57pm
    - RichardX
      
      But JackRabbitt, the important one is the martians who colonised earth and your “scientific theory” that supports your assertion.
      
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      October 8, 2020 2:21pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Here’s a question MrX. Where did your bloodline start all those millions of years ago. The original bipeds from which you descended?
        
        (a) A cornies packet?
        (b) Two mating squirrels?
        (c) Evolved from Apes?
        (d) You don’t know, so you are unable to rule where we came from?
        
        See rule #47
        
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        October 8, 2020 3:55pm
      - RichardX
        
        “Rule 47” refers to “rational truthful piece of data”
        
        You have not demonstrated your claim is rational, truthful, or in fact data.
        
        You are ignoring all the available scientific evidence for evolution.
        
        You still appear to be lacking in knowledge on what constitutes a “scientific theory”
        
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        October 8, 2020 5:06pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Jack’s very scientific method is “I don’t think x has been conclusively proved, so I can make statement y”
      
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      October 8, 2020 6:37pm
- theoldbloke
  
  Having arrived in Auckland last night from Cambodia(buggar all Covid) via Singapore, who allow Kiwis to visit no quarantine).
  
  I arrived to a distinct impression of Covid paranoia. Especially from the Military “”reception”” team.
  Yep, only following orders as they have not been issued customer relationship skills.
  
  2 hours standing in hotel while being “”checked”” in. Sitting on the floor was received with a verbal rebuke from the 2IC. No chairs provided!!!
  
  Makes me realise that the National Party policy of a Border Control agency has a lot of merit.
  
  Customs and immigration were fine.
  But additional “security”, Police, DHB, RNZAF & NZ Army staff were not.
  
  Having filled out the online Accomodation request as per latest Government dictum(ie from 5th October-Previously posted about). Everything was pieces of paper!!
  When I showed the RNZAF officer in charge my official “response”” from the booking, he was intrigued. He had no idea such a thing excisted.
  
  Yep head & tail of this Hyrda organisation not connected.
  Am I surprised? Not really after reading about so much border screwups over the last 6 months
  
  Lets hope that post election some sanity prevails and the new government reviews all the latest science based evidence and moves quickly to the new normal for border control.
  
  AND for Gods sake stop all the fear mongering!!
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:17am
  - dave_c_
    
    You have to remember that this whole Covid thing, is part of the agenda for implementation of a New World Order.
    These numpties fomenting fear, obedience, mask wearing are the pawns in this agenda, and would be fearful of their lives if they failed to do as told.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:10am
  - lofty
    
    I do hope that when you were rebuked for sitting on the floor, you told the bumptious prick to get stuffed.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:21am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Did you think the troops might hold your hand, do a haka and rub noses with you oldbloke?
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:57am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      My goodness you’re a toxic little bucket of piss aren’t you? I’m guessing what he expected was professionalism and competence. Not too much to ask is it?
      
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      October 8, 2020 4:50pm
- Surely Knott
  
  And even if there was some cause for concern in March in Europe. The second wave is significantly less lethal. For example in Switzerland the peak of their pandemic in March, their day with the most new cases was 1393 daily cases and highest number who died in one day was 74. In the september second wave highest 1500 new daily cases, highest daily death rate 11. Most days however in September are about 3. It’s much less deadly than it was. This is the same across Europe. Including in the UK where the number of coronavirus cases has tripled the number in the march 1st wave, but the daily deaths has gone from around 1000 a day to around 20.
  
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  October 8, 2020 1:41pm
virtualmark

A grandson of President John Tyler – the 10th president, born in 1790 and President from 1841 to 1845 – is still alive.

Tyler was 63 when he fathered his last son; that son was 72 when his own last child was born.

Until only this last week there were two of Tyler’s grandchildren alive, but one died last week – 175 years since his grandfather left the White House. https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/632788/john-tyler-grandson-has-died
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October 8, 2020 8:02am
Happychappy

You have laugh at One News and their Journalist Benedict what ever his last name is spouting about this is a new low for politics and National after Judith Collin walk down Ponsonby yesterday but like all the other media circuses in NZ they forget amongst their fawning over Jacinda Ardern that the “Low” of allowing Jacinda to sweep a sexual assault under the carpet from a deviate out of the Prime Ministers Office was many times worse. Then after promising the victim she would get justice for them she just tossed them aside like piece of garbage to cover up for a senior Labour Party member that worked for the Prime Minister. That low will never be forgotten by many .
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October 8, 2020 8:05am
- Catgurl13
  
  Add to that allowing Meka Whaitiri ,who admitted assaulting a staffer who Labour allowed to keep her job.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:42am
- nathie
  
  Why are some media hassling National supporters, asking who they are and why they are there?
  
  Perception wise it seems like TVNZ reporters want to “name and shame” National supporters.
  
  Very odd behavior … I’m surprised TVNZ didn’t go the next step and asked these citizens to produce identification papers.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:47am
  - Akarak
    
    On the same news item we saw Cindy surrounded by her sycophants proudly wearing Labour Party T-shirts and holding Labour Party election material. No comments from our highly trained journalists but then Cindy’s a celebrity! Or maybe the journalistic community are feeling a need to give added support to a falling star!
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:15am
  - Unity
    
    He was probably jealous that Judith actually had some supporters, because that’s what they were. They seem to have forgotten that for most of the year the PM has been in front of the cameras day in and day out with milking Covid for all it’s worth – but that was okay. The bias in the media is abysmal and totally unfair. Good Journalists would be showing some balance leading up to an election.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:40am
    - Paulus
      
      We have no good journalists – they are there to earn their $50,000,000 and hope for more and to keep their very well paid jobs.
      Low Hypocrites all of them – I cannot find one capable of being called a Reporter all after number one as they are the important ones.
      They lost the last election in fact and have worked continually to prove that they are the only ones cap[able of making people listen top them with Cindy being their tool.
      This time they will be right. and God Help New Zealand.
      
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      October 8, 2020 1:59pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Benedict Cumberbatch I think – those tv1 journos are all ‘actors’ aren’t they?
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:51am
  - tf78
    
    Cumberbatch was a great Sherlock Holmes – the other journalist Benedict can’t even investigate stories.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:10am
  - Flossie
    
    Really smug attitude he displayed, perhaps even patronising. One wonders why he wasn’t also displaying his Labour Supporter badge.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:40am
- Libertarians are right
  
  It’s funnier than that:
  Literally the day before, Jacinda had Megan Woods in the audience of the Stuff Leaders Debate making a hell of a racket in support of Jacinda.
  
  That is degrees of magnitude worse than having predetermined curbside “meetings”.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:52am
  - tf78
    
    David Seymour has had street corner meetings all over the country – what’s the bloody difference.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:12am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Possibly the worst aspect of this is that Colmar Brunton was polling last night, prior to the release of the ONCB poll at 6pm tonight. So what happens? TVNZ, who is paying and commissioning Colmar Brunton, leads its 6pm news with a trivial, anti-National story.
  
  Is that not a deliberate attempt to influence the poll result?
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:59am
  - Happychappy
    
    Labour and Jacinda Ardern have been allowed to get away with lies and deciet while Grant Robertson plays tit and tattle about other Parties policy and the people wonder why other parties are not happy resulting in idiots like Jamie Lee Ross trying to push the boundaries even further.
    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/politics/jami-lee-ross-defies-ad-ruling-as-complaints-surge
    The Complaints are being made by the Senior MP’s in Labour led by the Prime Minister and Finance Minister and while I have no time for Jamie Lee Ross what’s good for the goose should be also good for the gander, time for the Electoral Commission to grow some balls and in force the rules.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:13am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Judith called out Megan Woods at the debate on Tuesday. They had to do something to cover that up.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:15am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Entertainment & ratings I guess.
    
    Man I bet that Susie Fergusson would be a feisty biddy to watch on the Telly… Surely that’s her next aim (if not standing for the Labour Party)?
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:39am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    If you are paranoid it is Tony. So feel free.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:59am
- amospicton
  
  Actually I thought that was a new low in terms of blatantly partisan reporting. Really made my blood boil. At some stage something needs to be done about this – no problem with private companies having bias as long as they are allowed to fail when they turn off their consumers but TVNZ and Red Radio have to be without bias.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:10am
  - septic skeptic
    
    I don’t think the bias is fixable, so National should simply sell 5hem off and abolish all state funding.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:34am
  - Tricati
    
    I’m now finding the blatant bias offensive and quite dismissive of anyone who has a contrary view to that of Labour/Greens.
    
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    October 8, 2020 12:08pm
  - Papalazarou
    
    I’ve been watching the news since I was a boy. After 50 years I will never again watch that shite. That item was the straw that broke the camel’s back. The bias and superficiality of their coverage of the news has gotten worse over the years, but that was a new low point. Now more time for kiwiblog or spiked!
    
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    October 8, 2020 2:55pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  Unfortunately the media have already forgotten it, or chosen not to remember.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:33am
- bruceavon
  
  No. I don’t think you can just say it’s press bias and all their fault on this one. I thought so yesterday but the more I read about this, the more I think this was a party fiasco. They invited all the press along to what turned into an amateur hour performance. If course you can invite your supporters to these events, but then you don’t have your campaign manager line the footpath and pretend to be a member of the public telling Judith she’s doing a good job. Then Hamish Price is busted afterwards because the press know who he is. I felt sorry for Judith flying into this mess. None of this was her fault and she should have been livid. Whoever organised this needs to be held responsible. It wasn’t just the press, of course they were going to report this.
  
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  October 8, 2020 10:00am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  There is a concentrated effort from TVNZ and TV3 (led by Toxic Tova) to hit National every day in their headlines. I get a feeling that their polling is indicating a surge for NAT+ACT and they are worried that their Princess may lose. That is why this concentrated effort to put National down. Look at their language – “dumb”, “death spiral”
  
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  October 8, 2020 10:21am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    I hope so – but I thought you were already privy to all the latest polling results Sir Cullen? 😉
    
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    October 8, 2020 11:21am
  - Yabster
    
    Tova is a wannabe Cindy- socialist and biased -same for Maiki Sherman – bloody disgrace. Was always a TV1 news guy but gone so woke and Maori focused moved to the lesser of two evils newshub.
    
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    October 8, 2020 11:22am
mikenmildagain

I’ve got a bit interested in some of the catholic demi-gods, many of whom had fascinating back stories. But today is the anniversary of a future saint – Che Guevara. He has many of the attributes of a saint: martyrdom, representations in popular culture, and the development of a cult. Perhaps his record as an atheist and murderer might count against him, but who knows where the church might turn as it runs out of suitable candidates for canonisation.
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October 8, 2020 8:06am
- cmm
  
  It’s 2020 – anything could happen.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:43am
- Simon
  
  Che Guevara good rugby player apparently.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:44am
  - Pharmachick
    
    Yes, and it probably would have kept him from conviction for his crimes in NZ courts… /s
    
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    October 8, 2020 11:49am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Are you offering too?
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:50am
- kowtow
  
  Good god whistle there .
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:53am
- Jimmy White
  
  Mike Get the name right please ‘ Ernesto Rafael Guevara de la Serna’
  ‘che’ no capital means Friend or mate and is a form of affection
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:11am
  - rouppe
    
    Is that in a similar vein to “brother number 1” and “comrade Stalin”?
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:54am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      And our very own comrade jacinda.
      
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      October 8, 2020 1:40pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Well the second of our two current Popes is a communist.
  
  Personally I think Beautification of a mass murderer, who would kill a man for his boots, but who died a snivelling coward when his LARPing got serious, seems appropriate.
  
  A true Saint for the Millenial SJWs who think they are “fighting fascism” by enslaving peasants.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:20am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The point was the canonisation often appears to be divorced from the actual qualities of the candidate. After all, most saints are either completely mythical, or their deeds are. It appear that for Che Guevara, a cultus has developed in Bolivia, so it is by no means impossible that a future church might build upon the myth to elevate him to demi-god status.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:03am
    - Jimmy White
      
      The Church of miken the mild. Every Thursday night in the Basement 160-162 Willis St Wellington,
      The next saint of the blessed Ardern the taxer.
      
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      October 8, 2020 11:28am
    - oob
      
      You might be interested in this anecdote, Milky:
      
      When I was in Bolivia many years ago the locals maintained that the peasant who dobbed Che in was skinned alive by Cuban intelligence when they caught up with him.
      
      Quite literally, skinned.
      
      Now that is some biblical-level payback if you ask me.
      
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      October 8, 2020 1:14pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Hi oob, do you have a reference for this? Genuinely interested.
        
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        October 8, 2020 2:50pm
      - oob
        
        Sorry Pharmachick, I don’t. This was merely the story repeated to me by Bolivians in 2001.
        
        Though I have a vague recollection of reading about it in a book back then too but I’m not certain now.
        
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        October 9, 2020 6:11pm
- BeeJay
  
  Canonisation of saints and the process therein was of real importance during religious instruction if you were a kid in a Catholic Primary School. At least it was for the priests and nuns! The importance of the subject has long evaded me! I’ve grown to compare it to Queens Birthday Honours, but like Popes Day Honours, except instead of a MBE you become VENERABLE, then you get BLESSED instead of an OBE, and finally you get to be SAINT, like a KNIGHTHOOD/DAMEHOOD! However, you don’t get Popes Awards until you’re dead, sometimes for a very long time. Poor old St Bede waited 1,164 years to become a SAINT, he died in 735 and canonised in 1899! Mother Teresa was beatified (BLESSED) in 2003, and not yet a SAINT! And she was a Saint – maybe the Vatican know something about her that we don’t?
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:49am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Mother Teresa was a horrible person. Christopher Hitchens worked it out:
    
    Mother Teresa was not a friend of the poor. She was a friend of poverty. She said that suffering was a gift from God. She spent her life opposing the only known cure for poverty, which is the empowerment of women and the emancipation of them from a livestock version of compulsory reproduction. (…) Many more people are poor and sick because of the life of Mother Teresa. Even more will be poor and sick if her example is followed. She was a fanatic, a fundamentalist, and a fraud, and a church that officially protects those who violate the innocent has given us another clear sign of where it truly stands on moral and ethical questions.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:06am
    - Komata
      
      MM@1006
      
      Your quote from Hitchens is interesting; Can you provide a reference / and / or link for it please?
      
      Thank you.
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:42am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Quoted here:
        https://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2016/09/sadistic-religious-fanatic-mother-teresa-was-no-saint/?ref_widget=popular&ref_blog=friendlyatheist&ref_post=elizabeth-smart-slams-purity-culture-there-is-nothing-that-can-detract-from-your-worth
        Hitchens wrote about her at length – The Missionary Position: Mother Teresa in Theory and Practice.
        
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        October 8, 2020 11:18am
      - arkhad
        
        Hitchens is long since dead and his quote is from well before that. I can’t find the original but there is reference to it is in this article among many others fif you search.
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/auckland/local-news/local-blogs/dark-matter/8408272/Unmasking-Mother-Teresa
        
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        October 8, 2020 11:43am
      - rouppe
        
        https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2003/10/the-fanatic-fraudulent-mother-teresa.html
        
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        October 8, 2020 11:52am
      - Papalazarou
        
        The book is well worth reading.
        
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        October 8, 2020 2:56pm
    - Jimmy White
      
      Mike I understand that Hitchens quote “ Owners of dogs will have noticed that, if you provide them with food and water and shelter and affection, they will think you are god. ” is the basis of the Labour party’s philosophy.
      
      10 2
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      October 8, 2020 11:32am
    - BeeJay
      
      Mikey, thought there might be something holding Mother Teresa back. One of my many Catholic cousins joined a Religious Order and went to work with Mother Teresa in India for some time, and my comments reflect his when he returned to NZ and related his experience. He is a very Christian person, unlike me, and he always follows the idea – “if you can’t say something nice about someone, don’t say anything at all”!
      
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      October 8, 2020 11:55am
- JackRabbit
  
  Your dyslexia is playing up Mike.
  
  But today is the anniversary of a STAIN on humanity – Che Guevara.
  
  There fixed it for you.
  
  11 2
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  October 8, 2020 10:33am
  - Steve Todd
    
    Actually, tomorrow is (if his date of death, 9 October 1967, is what is meant by his “anniversary”).
    
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    October 8, 2020 12:38pm
greenfinger

Auckland Chamber of Commerce CE Michael Barnett brought his complaint to the media about a $4 increase per month for EFTPOS machine rental that businesses will have pay going forward. This pales into insignificance compared with the minimum wage increase that took place in April this year. The increase per full time staff works out to be $200 per month – 50 times more than the increase in the rental of EFTPOS machine. The biggest cost increase for any business in this country has been wages over the last three years. Nothing else even comes close! Well done, Cindy! 10% unemployment rate is coming for you after the election.
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October 8, 2020 8:06am
- Maxx
  
  Perhaps the ComCom will investigate the largest monopoly in the country, the Government. They unfairly use their dominance to assert their will over all other businesses, stifling growth, and quashing competition. A number of times they have stated a desire to be the single player in an industry (remember NZ Power).
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:57am
  - freethinker
    
    Binding Referenda, works well in Switzerland.
    
    3 1
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    October 8, 2020 10:30am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      And are/have destroyed California’s economy.
      
      2 1
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      October 8, 2020 3:08pm
- Simon
  
  Always use cash.
  
  8 3
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  October 8, 2020 9:01am
Tricati

We need no further evidence on how biased the MSM is here in NZ than the lead stories on both channels at 6pm last night; that being National had to have arranged supports for Judith Collin’s walk in Auckland, verses Ardern’s adoring crowd at Dunedin University. This further amplified by the snide comments from John Campbell this morning.
We have Tova O’Brian’s little hit pieces over ‘leaks’ from within National, and yet she was the one asking for ‘policies’ a few weeks back. National have put good coherent policies out, Labour another public holiday and regurgitating previously announced spending (Christchurch stadium). Yet no critical review of Labour falling to deliver their last election promises as demonstrated on this site.
The level of government borrowing we are seeing is just eye watering, and I get the sense the numbers are so big the average punter can’t comprehend them, so this is the very time the MSM should be super critical of parties spending, repayment policies and metrics being used to measure policy outcomes.
I now understand why Jerry Brownlee lost his cool with a reporter, National are not getting a fair go, and that’s all we ask for.
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October 8, 2020 8:09am
- Libertarians are right
  
  As per above – Megan Woods was a one person Jacinda fan club at the debate on Tuesday night. That is far worse than Judith’s “arranged support”.
  
  They are utterly biased.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:54am
  - Tricati
    
    Isn’t Megan Woods an odious woman of the very nasty type
    
    11 3
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    October 8, 2020 12:11pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      No.
      
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      October 8, 2020 1:57pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  Gerry Brownlee (or Judith) needs to lose his cool when Tova interviews them and put her down a peg or two.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:37am
  - Flossie
    
    Maybe. But it would be reported as Gerry losing his cool!
    
    10 2
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    October 8, 2020 10:06am
  - MCos
    
    Gerry did the other day.
    He really lost his temper at some reporter. Swearing and carrying on. Turned out he wasn’t expecting the interview because it had slipped his mind or some such. Not because of anything he was asked.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:52am
  - Paulus
    
    If Tova is contradicted she will tell Cindy.
    One day her turn will come – odious woman.
    
    5 1
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    October 8, 2020 2:11pm
- WellingtonBFF
  
  Yes – it is a crazy world when the media are hell-bent on holding the opposition to account rather than the government of the day. Has the world gone mad!!
  
  9 1
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  October 8, 2020 11:00am
  - Steve Todd
    
    It’s not the media’s fault that the Opposition is the gift that keeps on giving.
    
    1 12
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    October 8, 2020 12:44pm
    - Yabster
      
      ha and Labour aren’t- three names for you Twyford (worst MP in NZ History?), Davies (most invisible deputy Leader), David Clark (do as I say not as I do)- and thats only the tip of the iceberg- has to be the most incompetent cabinet ever).
      
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      October 8, 2020 1:09pm
      - MCos
        
        There’s a lot worse MPs than Twyford passed thru our parliament.
        While he has been disappointing he hasn’t been in a position to run the country into the ground such as a PM or Min of Finance (or combination of both) might.
        
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        October 8, 2020 6:48pm
artemisia

Cactus Kate goes for the jugular again.

Convicted Maori Meth Dealer Claims Weed Laws Are “Racist”

The linked article does indeed imply that Tricia Walsh was in jail several times for weed. A poor wee thing then.

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2020/10/convicted-maori-meth-dealer-claims-weed.html
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October 8, 2020 8:11am
- Catgurl13
  
  Yet in a way she still fails to acknowledge it was through her choices that she got into trouble in the first place. It’s nothing to do with any racism as to her being prosecuted. It’s to do with her stupid selfish choices to knowingly deal drugs in her home with her kids present. How about not doing drugs at all because it’s wrong in the first place,and you have kids you have created?….but no she wants Maori let off the hook because they choose to do drugs. She still hasn’t taken full responsibility for her actions.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:18am
- alloytoo
  
  The people dealers harm the most?
  
  Their own community.
  
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  October 8, 2020 10:03am
  - Catgurl13
    
    Yes exactly and what was stopping this woman going out and getting a job, instead if dealing drugs from her home instead?….she blames it on having to feed her kids,well why not choose a legal way to feed your kids?….and set them an example while you are at it?
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:55am
    - artemisia
      
      Why not choose a legal way? Because one involves working for not much money and the other not so much. Easy and lucrative, what’s not to like?
      
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      October 8, 2020 12:30pm
Flossie

Just watched the TOP leader on AM show. Unless I got it wrong he wants home owners to pay an annual tax on the value of the family home. My house is valued around the national average, which goes up every year. On my income – super – I wouldn’t be able to afford to live in my own home.
No thanks TOP!
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October 8, 2020 8:12am
- Jules99
  
  Don’t worry they have thought of that – they will deduct the tax from the house sale after you die. In other words, your kiddies will pay. No wonder no one votes for them.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:55am
  - Flossie
    
    If it is 10% (which I thought I heard) I won’t be able to afford to even LIVE for more than ten years!!
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:23am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      On the plus side, someone on the other thread wants to remove the franchise from people who aren’t nett taxpayers. So maybe paying an asset tax could preserve your right to vote!
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:08am
      - oob
        
        Only those who contribute to society ought to be afforded a say in how that society is governed.
        
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        October 8, 2020 1:37pm
  - gorse
    
    No one votes for TOP, but they still vote for the Greens. They will do the same, a whole lot of houses are worth a million or more. 1%, or in numbers, $10,000 per year. Two million? 2%, $20,000 per year. Every year, that’s just the house, add in other things, because it is a wealth tax, car, stamp collection, etc, etc. could end up over $30,000 per year. I guess the latte sippers haven’t worked this out yet. It would kill NZ in a year or two. Idiots.
    
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    October 8, 2020 11:56am
- Catgurl13
  
  They just don’t get it. Because of their self entitled views,they are never voted in.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:58am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Yes, that’s their crazy nasty wealth tax policy.
  
  Every homeowner in nz is already paying an asset based tax that some can barely afford: rates. That’s quite enough asset taxing!
  
  We should insist that rates get called asset tax, at least when talking to clueless greens. Show them we already pay plenty!
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:10am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Top and New Conservatives are a wasted vote IMO. Use your party vote wisely and vote National or Act.
  
  24 1
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  October 8, 2020 9:41am
  - MCos
    
    I voted the other day and there was a list of parties as long as your arm.
    There’s only four with a chance of making 5%. All the rest are delusional, including NZF.
    Maybe the Maori Party has an outside chance of winning a seat.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:58am
- alwyn
  
  That is exactly the same policy as the Green Party are pushing. Their wealth tax will work in just the same way.
  I hope you aren’t considering voting for the Water Melon party?
  
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  October 8, 2020 10:00am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Sounds awful lot like the Greens “wealth tax”
  
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  October 8, 2020 10:13am
Swifty

My Japanese flattie had his sole means of transport, his (chained) mountain bike, stolen from outside the busy New Lynn Mall late yesterday arvo.

He’s very fatalistic about it and accepting of it – but I’m spewing.

Scumbags.
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October 8, 2020 8:13am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Last month my neighbour had her brand new e bike stolen. It was well locked up outside her flat with a steel u-bolt. When I examined the bolt it had been cut through with angle grinder. One of the down sides of battery development that enables small portable angle grinders that you can put in a backpack.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:55am
  - Swifty
    
    Sorry to hear that Benedict.
    
    Yeah, that’s exactly what my flattie said too. He said his lock was ground.
    
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    October 8, 2020 11:12am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Nine long years of neglect.
  
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  October 8, 2020 10:23am
Maggie Pie

MaryJane advocate Chloe Swarbrick was on with Marcus Lush last night promoting the ‘yes’ vote for Cannabis legalization. She was armed with numbers galore but very little else.
Someone needs to remind Chloe of that old quote….”There are three kinds of lies; lies, damn lies, and statistics”

BE LIKE CHLOE
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EhnhlJMVkAAecGA?format=jpg&name=small
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October 8, 2020 8:13am
- Pateke
  
  Certain amount of je ne sais quoi going on in that head.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:27am
  - RalphT
    
    …but not much else.
    
    18 1
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    October 8, 2020 8:58am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Just because something is an old quote, doesn’t make it true. This one makes no more sense than saying “there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and grammar”.
  
  It’s certainly possible to mislead with statistics and to draw false inferences from them. It’s certainly the case that sometimes some people do precisely that. A lie with a number in it is still a lie.
  
  But this is not at all the same thing as concluding that everybody who provides a number in support of their argument, is necessarily lying. A truthful statement doesn’t become untruthful if a number is added to it.
  
  Now in this case Chloe may well have been lying, but if you want to prove that then simply saying “she said some numbers” isn’t going to do that.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:29am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Our host has been churning out statistical analysis to demonstrate how Labour has utterly failed to make any progress at all on any of its election promises. Many of us urged him to publish it more widely, many of us even contributed towards the cost of publication and dissemination, and gleefully pictured the confusion and despair of Labour supporters when confronted with these numbers.
    
    Well, now Maggie has shown us how wrongheaded that was. According to her heavily upticked logic, all Labour supporters need to do, is point out that there is an old saying that there are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics – and that will be game, set and match to them.
    
    Will DPF be giving our money back, I wonder?
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:12am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Good point. Could always fall back on ‘alternative facts’.
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:26am
    - freethinker
      
      Some of the figure DPF uses are well known even to Labour Voters so the message will be understood even if not persuasive enough to re consider their voting intentions so worthwhile as some may change their allegience.
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:39am
      - Albert_Ross
        
        But that same reasoning doesn’t apply to Chloe’s use of numbers in support of her arguments because … ?
        
        Look, I don’t support Labour, I loathe the Greens (because I do care about the environment and believe we could and should be doing a great deal better in our stewardship of it), and I don’t think they deserve to win their cannabis referendum because their proposed legislation is ill-thought-out, economically illiterate and likely to do more harm than good.
        
        But this doesn’t mean I’m going to applaud every comment that purports to favour causes I do support. Weak evidence and reasoning does not help a cause, it actively damages it. And the argument that Chloe used statistics and therefore must have been lying, because an old quote says that statistics is a type of lie – is piss-weak and I am genuinely at a loss to understand why so many people seem to think it’s a clever point.
        
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        October 8, 2020 11:38am
- Catgurl13
  
  I would challenge Miss Chloe to come out and actually live in one of our poorer low socio economic suburbs and see what it’s like putting up with the already antisocial moronic HNZ tenants we have living here. How would being able to grow dope improve already impoverished,uneducated drug/ substance addicted people?, Who already struggle to get out of bed?
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:35am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I would challenge Miss Chloe to come out and actually live in one of our poorer low socio economic suburbs
    
    Now you are just being silly…..
    
    It’s one thing to CARE about the poor, dispossessed, down-trodden…. it’s quite another thing to actually spend time with them…
    
    That’s why our PM only does photo shoots with NICE people at NICE places…
    
    48 1
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    October 8, 2020 9:07am
    - Jimmy White
      
      Miss Chloe is a kind sole. she would bake them cake
      
      14 2
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      October 8, 2020 9:16am
      - kowtow
        
        Sole’s off.
        
        13 1
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        October 8, 2020 9:37am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      She’s fine, so long as she can see them from a distance…and they stay where they are.
      Heaven forbid she could help them into the same position of wealth and power she’s in.
      
      10 1
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      October 8, 2020 10:16am
      - Catgurl13
        
        She would also rather remain in her trendy inner city suburb on her expensive couch, than come talk to really poor Benes.
        
        8 2
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        October 8, 2020 10:58am
    - Paulus
      
      But Chloe is from a poorer lower socio economic suburb being the North Shore City so she understands poverty !
      
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      October 8, 2020 2:16pm
- sooty
  
  That’s a laugh Maggie Pie,
  “Chloe, after meeting Mary Jane”
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:45am
Maggy Wassilieff

Even “Stuff” can see that our PM is living in La-la land.

https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2020/08/election-2020-the-whole-truth/#/1193789340/ardern-overreached-by-rejecting-border-failure
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October 8, 2020 8:13am
- G152
  
  Oh dear.
  So their attempt to buy Stuff off didn’t work.
  Well, not in that case…
  Can we please get rid of all these fake news media ???
  It would be nice to read/scan or view an actual unbiased commentary every so often just to restore faith in media…
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:21am
- lifesgood
  
  Stuff?!!! The same staff that organised the sham 3rd debate? The same Stuff that packed out the audience with Jacinda sycophants? That Stuff? Well I’ll be damned.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:22am
  - Tricati
    
    A good friend of mine went to the ‘Stuff’ debate and she commented on the number of ‘People’s Choice’ (Local labour aligned city council party) and Labour supporters that were there – Seems they were well organized and noisy and not prepared to give Judith a fair crack – Can’t stand a fair debate when your policies just don’t stack up.
    
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    October 8, 2020 8:57am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Ah, but organising a room full of labour supporters to cheer on a tv debate is ENTIRELY different from letting national supporters know when and where the walkabout will be.
      
      The latter is apparently a new low in astroturfing, the former, clearly a room full of random undecided voters.
      
      “Trust us we are media professionals”!
      
      I guess those “undecided voters” all got paid the living wage for their time? and it was counted as a campaign contribution?
      
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      October 8, 2020 9:26am
      - freethinker
        
        I didn,t attend or watch (was that possible on TV?) but I heard Judith visited a hairdressers and was told National was not welcome! Time to out that outfit so the public know at large that only Labour/Green supporters are welcome as customers, that should help them descend into liquidation.
        
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        October 8, 2020 12:43pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    By sychophants you mean their campaign manager and senior minister Megan Woods?
    
    28 2
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    October 8, 2020 8:57am
    - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
      
      Yeah that right, the giggly clappy shouty supporter. Apparently very excited to be selected as a random undecided Voter for the occassion.
      
      So I guess she was there in her capacity as an undecided voter? Not an MP, or a Minister of the Crown, or a Campaign director?
      
      Or was she just yet another Labour plant in her private capacity as a party member?
      
      Its so hard to keep up.
      
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      October 8, 2020 9:28am
- mandk
  
  When COVID-19 re-emerged in the community Ardern said this:
  
  “This suggests this is not a case of the virus being dormant or of a burning ember in our community. It appears to be new to New Zealand.”
  https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-newzealand-idUSKCN2593AT
  
  That being the case, there are only two possibilities: 1) There was a failure at the border, and 2) It somehow happened spontaneously.
  
  2) is virtually impossible, so the border must have leaked.
  
  Like Collins said, it didn’t come from under a rock in Ardern’s garden.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:31am
Catgurl13

Gosh the media are really desperate by accusing Judith’s Ponsonby walk around to be a jacked up rent a crowd. But it’s ok when Jabbacindy is pre organised to go to many schools and kindys every day?. Those visits are pre organised just like the Otago Uni one Jacinda was at yesterday. Judith made a very good point that she noticed the shops a cafes were empty signally a tanking economy as a reason there weren’t many people on the streets. But no the media are interested in fluff instead of real journalism. How stupid and petty that optometrist was to turn Judith away??.They missed the chance to meet and ask her some questions,instead if being rude and ignorant.
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October 8, 2020 8:14am
- Flossie
  
  I won’t be going to that particular optometrist shop! Obviously they won’t mind though as my politics don’t align with theirs.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:51am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    It seems that the parent company of the shop in question has a bit of history:
    
    https://twitter.com/NZBirder/status/1313716476528844800
    
    Oscar Wylee was fined A$3.5 million in the Australian Federal Court for making misleading claims about its charitable activities. So they probably did Judith a favour by turning her away!
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:05am
    - Surely Knott
      
      Although the Herald has had to write a new article saying that the shop was receiving online backlash and the owner didn’t reject Judith because of party politics but because they didn’t want the tv crews which is exactly what Judith had said. Did the Herald try journalism and actually interview anyone in the store before they wrote the article. True to form in the new article, the Herald leaves out the actual information being shared on twitter which is the shops history of virtue signalling fraud. And even though it should be an apology article from the Herald they crack on with their ponsonby road stacked supporters rhetoric and negative spin on Judith.
      
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      October 8, 2020 12:24pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    A very stupid business.
    
    Who can afford expensive designer glasses?
    
    Guess their business isn’t wanted. Plus as someone else points out, a business with a history of virtue signalling fraud.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:31am
    - Catgurl13
      
      They also possibly ruined a future wealthy customer returning spending lots of money there. That customer might then recommend that business to family and friends….but no they would rather be rude and ignorant……what was the harm in just meeting Judith?….saying hello doesn’t mean you have to vote for her…..they could have told her their concerns business wise that Judith is interested in….but no Kindy Cindy will help them.
      
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      October 8, 2020 11:04am
  - Gulag1917
    
    Low quality products.
    
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    October 8, 2020 11:28am
- Cinematic
  
  Don’t sweat it. The msm have very very little influence.
  
  Judith is outperforming Jacinda. By quite a margin.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:52am
  - lifesgood
    
    I wonder what poor old Katie “No matter what we say, no matter what we do” Bradford is thinking right now?
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:08am
    - Paulus
      
      Socialists’ Katie and Tova now know that all their lies and so called work will be successful this time – will they both get a naming in the New Years Honour’s List – expect so.
      
      3 2
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      October 8, 2020 2:21pm
  - kowtow
    
    ‘The msm have very very little influence.’
    
    Sorry but if it wasn’t for the fear porn they pushed so hysterically the world’s economy wouldn’t have been crashed by frightened pollies . And the few pollies that did stand up to it have been relentlessly pilloried by same msm.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:41am
    - Cinematic
      
      No doubt the msm acts to suppress any view they don’t support. And of course they control the narrative within their sphere. But there’s plenty of recent evidence that the voting public, across the world, throw off the msm shackles come polling day.
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:19am
      - kowtow
        
        One can only hope.
        
        3 2
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        October 8, 2020 11:52am
- Bobba Fret
  
  The media are definitely worried that (and can read the polls) that Judith is gaining support and Labour are slipping down.
  They have now gone in to attack and destroy mode to ensure their Labour party will get back in. Tova even suggesting Judith’s leadership may be at risk before the election and saying National in a death spiral. According to the polls, they are spiraling upwards!
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:54am
  - Yabster
    
    Tova’s a lying ** though so what else would you expect?
    
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    October 8, 2020 1:20pm
I remember when

Rosie Myers in Wellington hospital in an induced coma.
Race riding is never a totally safe game and both her and her sister have suffered serious racetrack injuries.
At least she has had a successful career and earned reasonable money – many jockeys never make the grade.
Another industry with increasing numbers of migrants swelling their ranks.
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October 8, 2020 8:20am
Gravelroad

Wilding pines in the high country:
So once again we have Eugenie Sage, an unelected activist who has ended up as a Minister of the Crown, blaming farmers and private land owners for past governmental stuff-ups.
Where I live, there is a heavy, out of control infestation of wilding pines.
They are here because 50 years ago, local authorities and the Forest Service decided that aerial sowing of contorta seeds (among others) would be a great idea to stop erosion.
Many farmers and land owners spoke strongly against this but were not listened to.
Now, of course, according to the likes of Ms Sage, it is all the fault of the greedy farmers. She loves to play to the prejudices of the urban armchair land experts who hate farmers anyway no matter what they do.
The government was responsible for the initial planting of wilding pines.
DoC is hopelessly inadequate to address the current situation in any honest or effective way.
So let’s make the private landowners pay huge money to control them – which they won’t be able to of course. The same landowners who fought the government so hard at the time not to do it in the first place.
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October 8, 2020 8:20am
- G152
  
  The way to control those vast areas taken over by the wilding pines is fire.
  Man with a chainsaw will clear maybe a few acres a day.
  A thousand acres means nearly 2 years
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:24am
  - oob
    
    Down our way DoC shoots the wilding pines.
    
    Because the terrain is steep, it’s easier for a bloke with a rifle to shoot a (cyanide?) bullet into the trees on the hills.
    
    It’s very effective. A couple of months later, totally dead tree.
    
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    October 8, 2020 1:46pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Maybe it’s time to come out strong in the media and put greens on the back foot: greens are endangering lives and properties with their policies against clearing land.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:29am
- mikenmildagain
  
  First I have heard that pinus contorta was deliberately spread.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:32am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Mikenmildagain,
    In the 1960’s here, contorta seeds were flown on by fixed wing aircraft and helicopters. Also substantial hand planting in high altitude risk areas.
    It is all well documented and was witnessed by a land owner still here.
    A family member, now deceased, was an elected but lone voice on a local authority at the time and fought tooth and nail to stop it. He even managed to wring out a written statement from them promising to clear any resultant trees which got established on privately owned land over the boundary from state controlled land.
    When it came to it, of course, that proved to be not worth the paper it was written on – although we still have that statement.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:20am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Gravelroad has experience and evidence. But hey, if Milky has never heard of something it can’t be true…
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:44am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Sometimes I find it hard to believe that you know a damn thing about your country, mikenmildagain.
    
    1. Pinus contorta was planted in production forests at Karioi, Central Volcanic Plateau in the 1920s.
    By the 1930s Foresters realised it was worthless as a timber tree.
    https://forms.justice.govt.nz/search/Documents/WT/wt_DOC_93878720/Wai%20903%2C%20A170.pdf
    
    2. After WW2 and into the late 1960s, P.contorta was
    used for soil erosion control on difficult sites…High altitude and frost flats.
    
    It was planted extensively over the Kaweka Range.
    
    Along with other hardy conifers (Corsican, Scots and Ponderosa pines, Larch & Douglas Fir) it was used in Erosion Control plantings throughout much of high/dry South Island…right through into mid 1970s.
    
    (I spent a couple of days planting pines on the Cragieburn Ra in mid 1970s.)
    
    https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/wilding-pines/
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:46am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It’s true – I didn’t know the history of the spread of wilding pines.
      All I know is that successive governments ignored the problem until it is now requiring a multi-billion dollar solution.
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:11am
      - Gravelroad
        
        Fair enough M&M- yes, successive governments ignored the problem – didn’t want to know. Too hard, too costly.
        But that doesn’t mean that landowners, who knew what they were talking about, didn’t stop trying to get the issue onto the agenda. We’ve highlighted this for 40 years and been told to go away.
        Now we have Minister Sage who wants to shift the blame onto selfish farmers and shifty private land owners.
        They can pay to eradicate government planted trees from a failed experiment. No.
        
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        October 8, 2020 10:40am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Pinus contorta was declared a noxious weed in 1983.
        There have been efforts to clear it from land since then.
        
        The wilding conifer problem has been the subject of much government input since the 1990s…
        https://www.wildingconifers.org.nz/the-issue/the-national-wilding-strategy/
        
        but it’s just one of our ecological problems…
        
        and perhaps because this problem is happening in the hinterland, it doesn’t carry the same ‘star” quality as saving a stranded whale or hugging a dying kauri …
        seems we have to wait for a disaster TV moment, before folks realise what is happening in their country.
        
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        October 8, 2020 10:56am
      - Batman
        
        I can say that the last government did pay attention to it. And worked on how to suppress the spread of wildings.
        
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        October 8, 2020 10:57am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Likely to be a shared responsibility between landowners, local and central government. The government can’t clean up every mess on private land, even if it is 100% to blame.
        
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        October 8, 2020 11:21am
    - calendar girl
      
      “(I spent a couple of days planting pines on the Cragieburn Ra in mid 1970s.)”
      
      Clearly a person of multiple talents. Maggie!
      
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      October 8, 2020 11:38am
  - Jimmy White
    
    “ Many of the worst wilding conifer infestations are associated with early/ legacy plantings, often by Crown agencies.” : WILDING CONIFERS IN NEW ZEALAND: STATUS REPORT
    Prepared for the Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry 2011
    
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    October 8, 2020 11:38am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Also, early on, in the Ohau fires, someone said “the lack of forest clearance contributed to the extent of the fires.
  Is this an area where DoC were clearing wilding pines?
  Did they just leave the result of this clearance, to be the fuel for a forest fire?
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:35am
  - nathie
    
    Can the home owners (or their insurers) sue DOC?
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:41am
- artemisia
  
  Sounds like grazing keeps wilding pines under some control. Can’t have farmers scoring free grazing though. Like to see Ms Sage’s benefit cost analysis. Waiting….
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:32am
  - alloytoo
    
    Perhaps the farmers should charge DOC, then it’s not free grazing.
    
    Bit like solar power……
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:09am
  - chukar
    
    Artesmisia
    Absolutely right, the problem was compounded by no livestock, particularly sheep.Techniques like rotational grazing were hugely successful ,and even set stocking kept wildings somewhat in check in the past.
    Now the problem is now too big for that form of control in some areas or perhaps anything except containment. The trees now are large and coning, situated in inaccessible New Zealand.
    Pastoral farming was and is still being regulated out of business and the high country by successive governments.
    1980 there was 72 million sheep in NZ .Now only about 25 million are left.
    
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    October 8, 2020 12:45pm
Maggie Pie

Word around Remuera Mall yesterday.
Angry Andy has told the Howard League that if Labor ARE reelected, they will repeal the ‘3 Strikes Law’
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October 8, 2020 8:22am
- Lance
  
  I wonder who the crims will be voting for?
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:29am
- mandk
  
  Well, it is Little’s job.
  
  He is crim-hugger in chief.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:32am
- mikenmildagain
  
  But what are they saying about it at the tennis club?
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:33am
  - Jimmy White
    
    6.0 6.0 6.0 to Judith
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:23am
  - Happychappy
    
    Probably making the conversation a lot more intelligent than you ever do on here.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:29am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      How come you never sound like a happy chappy?
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:12am
      - Jimmy White
        
        To easy I will pass this one up
        
        4 2
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        October 8, 2020 11:41am
- Ruahine
  
  Have heard the same. Labour are the criminals friend.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:40am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    or to re punctuate
    Labour are the criminals, friend.
    There, fixed it for ya.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:36am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Sourbek and Richie Hardcore will be voting for Labour
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:56am
- Philview
  
  In the last Parliament the Government tried to decriminalise the use of all drugs but NF First diluted the legislation. No doubt Little will get it over the line next time. This Government can pass radical legislation with very little media reporting. Somehow concerned New Zealanders will need to find a way to publicly confront this Government as more extreme legislation will be coming our way.
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:45am
- mark15
  
  He and Nash are all for it.
  It removes judges’ discretion according to Nash,apparently.
  Don’t they have ‘discretion’ for the first two strikes?
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:46am
- mandk
  
  Will they also repeal the LWOP provision that they opposed when Collins was Justice Minister and Ardern was the shadow?
  
  i.e. the provision used to put Brenton Tarrant away for ever.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:07am
Yvette

Note: this comment asks, when the Police, on their evaluation of a situation, release a statement to declare a matter to be false, and then when a similar matter arises, is the absence of Police guidance mean that second matter is likely true, or they haven’t decide yet, or the matter doesn’t matter?

Clarke Gayford shares photo of the pillowcase helping him not miss Jacinda Ardern ‘too much’ while she’s on campaign trail [1]

For the immediate record, the photo of the pillowcase displays an image of Ardern which is less romantic than I’d expect, considering the context, but what the hell. Someone apparently gifted it to Gayford, for some reason – it may not be the angle he would himself select.

“Amazing the curios picked up on the campaign trail,” Gayford said on Twitter, accompanied with a photo of the pillowcase featuring Ardern, a silver fern, and two English roses.
“This wee gem of a gift was slipped onto my pillow so I won’t miss her too much while she’s out getting it done and I’m home stocking up on 2L milks.”

However the point here is that Gayford cannot be unaware that a rather grubby rumour seeming attaches again to his situation, and the current Police Commissioner has not offered public guidance on the current comments – unlike the office of the previous Commissioner, quashing an earlier rumour that they then believed untrue

So, a simple question: If Gayford’s pillow companion is valid Election clickbait fodder – the existence of the pillow case supposedly has been released and commented on by Gayford and Ardern media contacts – why is the current rumour about Gayford not also up for consideration – certainly for Police officially discounting it – since the circumstances could echo Len Brown’s publicly misjudged Christian family status, just prior to his election, which was shown to be so in error shortly thereafter.

Where is the Police Commissioner on what has been by precedent implicated as one of his jobs?
Or has that role now regained its hoped for impartiality, although that will not be the situation until it is publicly pointed out?

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/lifestyle/2020/10/clarke-gayford-share-photo-of-the-pillowcase-helping-him-not-miss-jacinda-ardern-too-much-while-she-s-on-campaign-trail.html
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October 8, 2020 8:23am
- Tony Stuart
  
  If nothing else, the pillowcase story is an example of just how low journalistic standards have fallen in New Zealand. It’s nothing but clickbait, but of course at this point in the election period, more partisan motives can easily be read into its publication.
  
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  December 8, 2019 9:16am
  - Gravelroad
    
    It’s a tacky pillowcase too.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:24am
    - Twinkletoes
      
      You are so right, utterly tasteless Chinese tat from the $! shop..
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:25am
- NoFax
  
  I have noticed that Neave is no longer paraded around for photo-ops etc (which is a good thing). I wonder is it because of the same reasoning as you note above. Go down that line then counter points can be raised.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:38am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  One rumour fell into the province of the Police.
  The other rumour does not.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:57am
- oldfella
  
  Yvette: you said, ‘However the point here is that Gayford cannot be unaware that A RATHER GRUBBY RUMOUR rumour seeming attaches again to his situation, and the current Police Commissioner has not offered public guidance on the current comments – unlike the office of the previous Commissioner, quashing an earlier rumour that they then believed untrue.
  
  This is of course this is the ‘rather grubby rumour’ that dare not speak its name – at least on this blog. Good luck even trying…
  
  [Edited by Mod: please don’t format your own comments in the same way as Moderators. And yes, spreading of the untrue rumours will receive short shrift from us.]
  
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  October 8, 2020 10:55am
  - oldfella
    
    Sorry. Didn’t mean to mislead anyone into thinking my comments were those of a Mod. Used brackets to seperate my comments from Yvette’s. Should have used (…) instead.
    Serious question for the Mod team: you talk here about ‘untrue rumours’. But rumours, by their very nature, sometime turn out to be true.
    Wouldn’t it be more honest to say something like ‘which this blog believes to be untrue?’
    
    [Mod: no problem! To answer your question, they’ve been ruled as impossible due to one of the supposed person’s involved not ever existing. So we are comfortable in stating that they are categorically untrue.]
    
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    October 8, 2020 12:09pm
Prince

I have to say I am bewildered by the latest ‘revelation’ that National Party supporters and members are deliberately attending the walkabouts by Judith Collins.
I now that each week, all major NZ political Party leaders’ itineraries are sent to supporters and other groups (eg Unions), with the intention of local supporters attending if they can.
For some reason this is now a scandal for the National Party.
Can someone please explain what I am missing. What has National done that other Parties don’t, and how is it a bad thing ?
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October 8, 2020 8:24am
- alloytoo
  
  this is the week for Hit jobs on Judith, something must be right with the polls.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:05am
- Ruahine
  
  It is just the Media Party earning the $50 million of our taxes given to them by the Labour Party.
  With all the hits on Judith Collins that are popping up as if by magic, Labour will be well pleased. I suspect another $50 million will be coming to the Media Party after the election win by Labour.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:09am
- lifesgood
  
  You are missing the point. Anything National does is bad but if Labour do the same (and they do) it is wonderful.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:11am
  - Unity
    
    The Press are a disgraceful biased lot. I don’t call them Journalists or Reporters. They are Labour Party lackeys. We are close to an election and any Reporters worth their salt would be reporting in a balanced unbiased way. How on earth are we supposed to believe them or even respect them? They are nothing but gutter Press plain and simple. Dumb, dumb and dumb like that Benedict guy. Can’t remember his surname.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:56am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Why aren’t National supporters flocking around Judith when she goes walkabout?
  Because they’re busy at work.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:21am
- rockape
  
  It’s not as if every candidate advertises where and when they will be doing walkabouts. Most even place it in the local media and play them for the advert.
  
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  October 8, 2020 11:09am
- MCos
  
  Well Hamish Price, who is the campaign manager, should have sorted out a better road for Miss Collins to do her meet & greet.
  She probably loathes the sort of ‘woke’ people who sip coffee down Ponsonby Road.
  Maybe she should have stayed down in Christchurch and wandered round Ilam with Gerry or headed off to Ashburton. They love her down there, I’m told.
  She’d always be welcome at The Topp Twins Cafe in Methven.
  
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  October 8, 2020 11:18am
  - Gravelroad
    
    I’m going to see her tomorrow.
    Shall I report back? What do you want to know?
    
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    October 8, 2020 12:56pm
I remember when

Yes it was great to see Chris Hipkins lauding the Government’s defeat of covid-19 again.
What fantastic timing just in time to mop up the early voters.
Once again this Government has been the ‘lucky’ Government and Labour the best lead party.
Isn’t social media, great PR and a beaming smile grand.
However, would you vote for someone who is silly enough to stand in the rain when they didn’t have to.
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October 8, 2020 8:30am
Surely Knott

If Davidson and Shaw are co-leaders then why is it that Shaw is the only one on the Hoskings show this morning, or in fact whoever speaks to mainstream media The fact is if you vote greens you get two leaders who are telling two very different stories to two different audiences. Splitting. Let’s here from the other leader we get if we vote greens.
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October 8, 2020 8:31am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Concern noted.
  Perhaps you shouldn’t vote for the Greens if you disapprove of their leadership arrangements.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:01am
- Maxx
  
  Davidson would have been trying to leap over the desk to strangle Hosking. She can’t be trusted to keep her contempt for people in check, so it is better for them to treat her like Kelvin Davis and only let her out for carefully scripted events.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:04am
  - alloytoo
    
    Davidson … [del. mod.] I cannot believe the free ride she gets from the media.
    
    16 1
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    October 8, 2020 9:51am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    She may have addressed Hosking using the “C” word.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:01am
  - jon
    
    Davidson is our Kamala Harris!!!
    
    6 2
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    October 8, 2020 10:19am
- Ruahine
  
  One is more stupider than the other. I will let you decide which.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:05am
- Unity
  
  Marama has been on different Shows. I think they split these things between them.
  
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  October 8, 2020 10:57am
Classic Liberal

James Shaw on Hosking: horrific with his blasé attitude to other people’s assets. They all belong to him to scatter about to those he favours.
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October 8, 2020 8:32am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Yeah, it’s almost as if a democratically elected government could potentially tax anything: income, goods and services, assets.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:02am
  - Jimmy White
    
    Mike its not the fact that they are going to bring in more taxes, its the fact that they are lying about it to the potential voters. … [del. mod.]
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:28am
  - JamesP
    
    Almost there. Now you just need to grok the tyranny of the majority.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:57am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Liked for the Heinlein reference.
      
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      October 8, 2020 10:15am
  - Yabster
    
    classic socialist- all governments are elected on a platform- so no they can’t just tax anything!
    
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    October 8, 2020 1:25pm
Billy Collins

This may give some perspective:

Oct 10th, 2016: “Poll: Hillary Clinton leads Donald Trump by 14 points nationally”

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-hillary-clinton-leads-donald-trump-by-14-points-nationally/
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October 8, 2020 8:38am
- Gravelroad
  
  Billy- I am no expert on US politics and take only a passing interest.
  However, I did watch a couple of the TV debates between Clinton and Trump.
  Trump bumbled along and Hillary reigned supreme – over confident, arrogant and grinning and tilting like someone else we know here.
  I didn’t think Trump had much of a show.
  And then Clinton over-reached herself with the comment, during a televised election debate watched by millions, about the “deplorables”.
  And then it all changed……
  Funny how arrogantly judging and insulting folk out there sometimes doesn’t work.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:32am
  - MCos
    
    Clinton used the ‘basket of deplorable’ expression at a rally on Sept-9.
    Bad move. The last thing a candidate should do is disrespect potential voters.
    Right now one could argue Trump is disrespecting the connections of the 220,000 people who have died.
    The other big influence on Clinton’s campaign was the reopening of the FBI investigation into Clinton’s emails eleven days before the election.
    
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    October 8, 2020 12:08pm
Catgurl13

Seeing Helen Clark on that Cannibis debate last night I wanted to ask her a question. Helen if dope is made legal,are you happy for people to rent your rental properties while growing and smoking dope there?……
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October 8, 2020 8:39am
- Durden
  
  Helen’s tendencies were clearly on display from the first words out of her mouth “Its about control”.
  
  And its clear she needs Cindy to be under her control for backroom power. She started commenting about “the PM….” but quickly scotched by Gower saying this is not about election politics.
  
  Why dies she have this sour perma-scowling witch look? Compare to any any one else on screen.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:22am
  - Catgurl13
    
    She’s such a silly old bat. Very out of touch and hypocrite wanting dope made legal as she lives in her snobby MT Eden suburb. I bet her neighbours are not impressed with her. Will she be blazing it up in her lounge and growing it in her garden if it’s made legal?…..I bet she won’t,she’s full of it.
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:34am
  - Unity
    
    I’m gaining some respect for Patrick Gower in the role of Moderator. He’s been doing well so far which is a surprise to me.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:59am
- Bobba Fret
  
  I thought Paula Bennett came across well.
  
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  October 8, 2020 10:02am
- thirteenstars
  
  “…are you happy for people to rent your rental properties while growing and smoking dope there?
  
  You’ll have to do better than that.
  
  Tenants are subject to all kinds of restrictions by landlords. No smoking and no pets clauses are more common than not. I even know of tenancy agreements that specify no activities that give off penetrating smells, and these things are monitored with regular inspections. Tenancy agreements also specify care of gardens, what can and cannot be chopped down or grown, etc. If a landlord doesn’t want cannabis smoked or grown, it will not be, or the tenant will lose their bond, and be subject to termination, just like any other such clause.
  
  Try again.
  
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  October 8, 2020 12:34pm
  - Batman
    
    Quite so. A quick look on trade me will show up plenty of rental listings with rules which are borderline illegal, or at least morally questionable.
    
    Though usually they are attached to some of the weirdest and shittiest rentals so it’s easy to ignore if you’re not stuck at that end of the market.
    
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    October 8, 2020 12:59pm
- bruceavon
  
  Well the main point Clark made was people are growing and smoking at peoples rentals now. Some people seem to think legalising it will mean everything will change and suddenly everyone will be using it. The evidence says it’s not so. Nothing will change overnight. The same people will smoke it as now except it won’t be illegal. Half the arguments I hear from no people make it sound like we are going from no pot to everyone having it.
  
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  October 8, 2020 3:00pm
Fletch

John Key against cannabis on Hosking this morning.

“If you want to see more drugs in New Zealand society, vote yes. But if you don’t, vote no. Because all the other arguments about, aww, the govt will get money – what a load of nonsense. The govt will be spending a lot more money on mental health issues. The fact that the gangs won’t be there – what a load of junk. Of course the gangs will be there. They’re going to have a cheaper product because they don’t pay taxes. And just go through those issues, so in the end if you want a society where there are more prevalent drugs where your kids are more likely to take them, vote yes. Personally, I’ll be voting no”.

https://weekondemand.newstalkzb.co.nz/WeekOnDemand/ZB/auckland/2020.10.08-07.00.00-D.mp3

Listen at 11:30 in
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October 8, 2020 8:42am
- lifesgood
  
  Good man, that man.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:12am
- Catgurl13
  
  That community worker on that panel last night who works in South Auckland said the gangs will not just shut up shop. They will do more to push their products in the community. My view is they will be adding other drugs to their dope so it is more potent for buyers. It will be far easier for this to go in unchecked and un noticed.
  
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  October 8, 2020 10:01am
Critical Thinker

74 year old Trump has been symptom-free for more than 24 hours now. And also has Covid antibodies ??

“Don’t be afraid of Covid. Don’t let it dominate your life.”
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October 8, 2020 8:43am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Did you see the Civilian’s line:
  “Today in History: Reagan returns to White House after assassination attempt, tells Americans ‘don’t be afraid to get shot’”
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:05am
  - Jimmy White
    
    Mike Mike he actually quoted Winston Churchill and said “ There’s no more exhilarating feeling than being shot at without result.”
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:33am
  - NoFax
    
    The only thing we have to fear is fear itself
    
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    October 8, 2020 9:42am
- Batman
  
  CT are you high on steroids too? It would explain your completely naive belief that Trump is cured.
  
  Instead of being serious and showing the actual evidence from medical professionals, I’ll leave this rather amusing thread of people with stories about the insane shit they did while on steroids. Funnily enough, they all compute very closely with the behaviour of Mr Trump.
  
  https://twitter.com/CIAspygirl/status/1313930671253975040?s=19
  
  “I remember when I was on steroids. I earnestly told my husband that I could compete in the Olympics. He asked me “which sport” and I said “all of them.”
  
  “+1. I had a severe allergic reaction years ago. While on steroids, I built a horse arena on the back of our property and painted the house, twice.”
  
  “I wanted to climb Mt. Rainier 24 hours after my cornea transplant. I tried, too. Just walked right out the front door in bare feet, ready to mountaineer.”
  
  “I am a 77 year old 5 foot woman and I thought I could roof the garage”
  
  “My best steroid moment was singing “Summer Loving” (with background vocals) at the ER.”
  
  So, ya know, maybe don’t proclaim that Trump is a God-king who beat the virus until he’s actually through the cycle ?
  
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  October 8, 2020 11:06am
  - lifesgood
    
    I took steroids for a long time due to a blood problem. Never changed my behaviour in any way. Just made me fat. A long time friend has taken steroids for many, many years, same person as always, never changed. And I know of others. Those tweets remind me of all the Nigerians who have been long time National voters now voting for Labour. Just a load of tripe.
    
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    October 8, 2020 1:29pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Different steroids.
      
      East German athletes weren’t taking steroids that just made them fat. Neither is Trump. They’re on the powerful s$*t.
      
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      October 8, 2020 5:04pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  And now a word from our favourite President ?
  
  “Hi. Perhaps you recognise me as your favourite President.
  
  They gave me ‘Regeneron’. It was unbelievable. I felt good immediately. I feel great. I feel perfect. We have hundreds of thousands of doses ready.
  
  I want everybody given the same treatment as your President. I want to get for you what I got and I’m gonna make it FREE. You’re not gonna pay for it.
  
  It wasn’t your fault that this happened. It was China’s fault and China’s gonna pay a big price for what they’ve done to this country. What they have done to the world. This is China’s fault. Just remember that.”
  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/want-everybody-given-treatment-president-trump-says-will-offering-free-covid-meds-americans-video/
  
  “Don’t be afraid of Covid. Don’t let it dominate your life.” ??
  
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  October 8, 2020 11:51am
  - Batman
    
    Narrator: unsurprisingly, the drug addled elderly man was lying about the hundreds of thousands of doses being ready.
    
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    October 8, 2020 11:56am
- thirteenstars
  
  Indeed. I suspect in coming weeks Trump’s antibodies will form the basis of a new drug known as Trumphylactic.
  
  It will be offered in an orange pill and will save a great, God-fearing nation. Children will scream with joy, women will swoon, and strong men will go weak at the knees.
  
  Glorious days, my friends, glorious days.
  
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  October 8, 2020 12:47pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Trump vodka, Trump steaks, and now Trump snake oil…
    
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    October 8, 2020 2:04pm
- virtualmark
  
  He has Covid antibodies because they injected him with … polyclonal antibodies. That’s the Regeneron treatment. Regeneron themselves came out today and said “Yes, Doctors will be seeing Covid antibodies in the President’s blood, because they’ll be measuring our product”.
  
  BTW, it’s experimental and not yet approved by the FDA. It’s not a scalable product … very low/slow production rate. It’s US$20,000 a dose. And it was developed using cells from aborted foetus’ … which is supposed to be a problem for the pro-life party.
  
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  October 8, 2020 1:51pm
Maggy Wassilieff

So after eight and half months of Covid-19 first arriving in NZ, our PM finally realises the bleeding obvious…

There is also ongoing work to look into what to do with people who arrive from countries with large Covid-19 outbreaks.

Ten cases were picked up in managed isolation last week, all linked to a single flight from India.

On Tuesday, the Prime Minister told Morning Report people returning from countries deemed high risk may soon have extra precautions.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018767435/covid-19-government-looking-into-safe-travel-areas-hipkins
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October 8, 2020 8:44am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Evil xenophobe like Trump!!
  
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  October 8, 2020 8:47am
- Tricati
  
  Could that be the same country Hamish Walker had concerns over but was labeled a ‘Racist’ by Megan Woods.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:01am
- rockape
  
  Didn’t a young National MP get sacked for that sort of talk? Even just for mentioning those countries. Where is the outcry from the press now?
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:19am
- SB2
  
  “There is also ongoing work to look into what to do with people who arrive from countries ..”
  
  Most usually NZ citizens visiting family and friends in e g South Asia
  
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  October 8, 2020 11:14am
Classic Liberal

Seymour saying the right thing: Expects to achieve a lot in next few elections but nz to eventually return to two parties.

Seymour doesn’t want to be at the trough forever, no lifelong politician attitude.
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October 8, 2020 8:45am
- Inandout
  
  CL, he sees the end of MMP eventually. It will be a hell of a fight though to extract those lazy List MPs from their comfy chairs.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:23am
- Flossie
  
  Maybe Seymour is taking note of the classic example of staying on past your use-by date and doesn’t want to end up pitied and pilloried in equal measure like Winston.
  
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  October 8, 2020 12:32pm
Critical Thinker

? BREAKING ?: Joe Biden is now the Subject of Federal Criminal Investigation Into His Role in the Spygate Coup Attempt and Activities in Ukraine. Ukrainian Witnesses are Cooperating.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/breaking-joe-biden-subject-federal-criminal-investigation-role-spygate-activities-ukraine/

#TREASON

Judgement is coming.
Enjoy the show ? ?
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October 8, 2020 8:53am
- Fletch
  
  Also – Brennan’s Handwritten Notes Prove Obama Was Briefed on Scheme to Set Up Trump…
  
  https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/10/06/brennans-handwritten-notes-show-he-briefed-obama-on-setting-trump-up-n2577573
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:21am
  - Batman
    
    Fletch you silly chap, can you not read?
    
    “The IC does not know the accuracy of this allegation or the extent to which the Russian intelligence analysis may reflect exaggeration or fabrication”
    
    All alleged from Russian intel chatter which was picked up. Hmmmm, I wonder why it was so easily picked up?
    
    You absolute dupes.
    
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    October 8, 2020 11:37am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Think of it this way Batty
      It’s just another brick in the wall of evidence proving what Clinton did.
      You do know they have traced the money.
      Perkins Cole had to provide Bank Statements.
      They squealed of course but did it the end.
      Fuck, even Steele has admitted it.
      You’re so much in denial it’s funny eh my little gullible one with your head in the sand.
      
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      October 8, 2020 6:29pm
  - Critical Thinker
    
    By two-to-one voters believe FBI should be prosecuted for its role in Russia probe
    
    Related poll shows just one-third of voters aware FBI lied to a judge to obtain wiretaps against 2016 Trump campaign associates.
    
    “The results indicate that relatively few voters are aware that former FBI lawyer Kevin Clinesmith earlier this year admitted to falsifying an email used to obtain a wiretap against 2016 Trump campaign aide Carter Page.”
    https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/twice-many-voters-believe-fbi-should-be-prosecuted-its-role-russia-scandal
    
    I wonder why there is so few people that are actually indeed aware of this massive scandal of a story, in the attempted coup of a sitting US President… Very strange isn’t it? ?
    
    Makes you think… ?
    
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    October 8, 2020 4:55pm
- jon
  
  Be fair to Joe, he WONT remember!!
  
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  October 8, 2020 10:35am
- Batman
  
  Cute, you think Paul Sperry is a reliable source.
  
  Notice that they say ‘active investigation’ and that there is no evidence of any investigation by any law enforcement agency whatsoever.
  
  Don’t be so darn gullible (probably too late for that).
  
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  October 8, 2020 11:32am
Yvette

Māori Party promise $100m for legal aid service, want overhaul of ‘racist’ justice system – 1 News [1]

• The Māori Legal Aid Service/Māori Legal Defence Service – which comes as part of the party’s criminal justice policy – would help protect Māori from the Crown, Māori Party spokesperson Donna Pokere-Phillips said today in a statement.
“Māori are used to maintain a Pākehā economy which is based on criminalising them,” she said.

• As well as the establishment of a fund for a Māori restorative justice system, the policy would also see the replacement of punitive measures “embedded within the current criminal justice system” with a system based around restorative justice and rehabilitation.

• In its announcement ahead of the October 17 General Election, the party claimed two years of criminal justice system costs has cost more than all Treaty settlements over the past 26 years.

• It would also amend “racist laws, legal and policing processes” which the party says has helped incarcerate “innocent Māori”

I see some comments of various politicians are being fact-checked.
For example – National leader Judith Collins’ claim NSW ‘dealt with’ COVID-19 better than NZ fact-checked as ‘mostly false’
Above are four comments I would like to see fact-checked.
These statements could also probably be considered by the Race Relations Commissioner for their appropriateness.

“Māori are used to maintain a Pākehā economy which is based on criminalising them”
Is this statement true, and also is it not a little racist?

[1] https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/m-ori-party-promise-100m-legal-aid-service-want-overhaul-racist-justice-system
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October 8, 2020 9:07am
- Flossie
  
  So over this “us” v. “them”. Let’s all identify as Maori and make it a non-issue.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:38am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    My point precisely when I ask ‘what is the definition of Maori’? Is there a single legal definition? Can anyone just label themselves ‘Maori’, but there are more specific requirements to get privileges such as easier med school access?
    
    Nobody has answered my question yet.
    
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    October 8, 2020 3:35pm
- Catgurl13
  
  Maori party need to realise their racist comments about whites is the reason they are not getting votes. Most Maori have white in them and their families and voting for this party is a racial vote against their own family heritage.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:44am
  - Unity
    
    They seem to forget they actually have possibly more ‘white’ in them than ‘Maori’. There is money in being a Maori so they raise that part and suppress the other. Perhaps if they did it the other way round, they might actually do so much better. I’m referring to the lazy breeding ones not the many decent part-Maori who are hard working and getting by like the rest of us. We should all be New Zealanders and stop these racist racial divisions.
    
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    October 8, 2020 11:04am
piglady

Our climate is changing. The question is whether the human species is causing it?.
Humans are competing for the natural resources on our planet and in doing so are destroying the environments of many other species.
We need to breed less. Pretty simple answer but not easy to fix.
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October 8, 2020 9:11am
- cmm
  
  Even if it is human induced, two questions need to be asked:
  A) Are we really changing it that much? The earth is billions of years old. Small natural climate changes happen every few hundred years or so (mini ice ages etc) and very big changes (eg. full ice ages) happen on a ten thousand year timeframe. There have quite literally been tens of millions of those in the time the earth has existed and hundreds of thousands in the time that mammals have existed. So does it really matter if we make the next one happen a hundred years sooner?
  B) Are the changes negative or positive? More CO2 means greening of the desert. That’s a good thing right?
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:47am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Wrong. It’s the rate of change that is of most significance.
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:17am
    - mark15
      
      Earth 4.5 BILLION years old
      Homo sapiens 200,000 years old
      Industrial revolution 250 years ago
      Climate change 70 years.
      What rate of change are you talking about MMA?
      
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      October 8, 2020 11:37am
    - Jimmy White
      
      The dinosaurs lived for 180 Million years but died out in 32,000 years.
      Humans have been around for 200,000 years so we have 35 years more. Cash in your Kiwi saver. and buy Gummy Bear futures
      
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      October 8, 2020 11:50am
  - SB2
    
    More CO2 means greening of the desert. That’s a good thing right?
    
    Nope. Look at Venus.
    
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    October 8, 2020 11:17am
    - rangitoto
      
      Surface pressure on Venus is around 92 times the Earth and Venus’ atmosphere has about 93 times the total mass of Earth’s atmosphere. Equivalent to being about 1.5km depth in the Ocean. Not remotely comparable.
      
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      October 8, 2020 12:00pm
    - cmm
      
      Due you have to put in effort to be this stupid or does it come naturally?
      
      I suppose it is all the SUV drivers on Venus that are making the CO2 too!
      
      Do you understand biology in any way?
      
      It is well understood that more CO2 in the air means that plants can grow with less water. Here’s how it works:
      
      Plants need CO2 for food (photosynthesis and all that). They also need water.
      
      Plants have “pores” called stomata which they can open and close. They open these to let the CO2 in.
      Unfortunately this also means they lose water through the pores too, so it is a balancing act between getting in enough food and dehydration.
      
      When CO2 levels rise, plants can get more CO2 without opening as many pores. This means they can get more food without drying out as much. This is a big win in dry areas.
      
      This means plants can grow in marginal desert areas etc so deserts get greener.
      
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      October 8, 2020 12:37pm
      - SB2
        
        cmm and other climate change deniers,
        
        Scientists have no doubt that humans are causing global warming.
        
        So what’s the evidence?
        
        The research falls into nine independently studied, but physically related, lines of evidence:
        
        Simple chemistry – When we burn carbon-based materials, carbon dioxide (CO2) is emitted (research beginning in the 1900s).
        
        Basic accounting of what we burn, and therefore how much CO2 we emit (data collection beginning in the 1970s).
        
        Measuring CO2 and other greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and trapped in ice to find they are increasing, with levels higher than anything we’ve seen in nearly a million years (measurements beginning in the 1950s).
        
        Chemical analysis of the atmospheric CO2 that reveals the increase is coming from burning fossil fuels (research beginning in the 1950s).
        Basic physics that shows us that CO2 absorbs heat (research beginning in the 1820s).
        
        Monitoring climate conditions to find that the air, sea and land is warming, as we would expect with rising greenhouse gas emissions; as a response, ice is melting and sea level is rising (research beginning in the 1930s).
        
        Ruling out natural factors that can influence climate like the sun and ocean cycles (research beginning in the 1830s).
        
        Employing computer models to run experiments of natural versus human-influenced simulations of Earth (research beginning in the 1960s).
        Consensus among scientists who consider all previous lines of evidence and make their own conclusions (polling beginning in the 1990s).
        
        https://www.edf.org/climate/9-ways-we-know-humans-triggered-climate-change
        
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        October 8, 2020 1:24pm
    - SB2
      
      Venus is in fact a good model as you can see the effects of how an overabundance of CO2 can trap heat as it is seen to do so on earth.
      
      Albeit on a much smaller but significant scale.
      
      https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/global-warming/global-warming-causes/
      
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      October 8, 2020 1:32pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      @SB2
      
      So you reckon the UN Decade for Deserts has just been a big waste of time and money, eh?
      https://www.un.org/en/events/desertification_decade/
      
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      October 8, 2020 1:43pm
- alloytoo
  
  I think we should endeavor to target a pre-industrial era temperature range.
  
  950 AD to 1250 AD had pleasant weather.
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:47am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Party like the Crusades!
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:18am
  - Jimmy White
    
    1309 to 1814 the Thames froze over 23 times. The Mini ice age.
    We all lived though that. The reason: We did not have twitter and Facebook
    
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    October 8, 2020 11:54am
- mandk
  
  I agree that the climate is changing (as it always has), but you are conflating two separate issues here and coming up with a debatable conclusion.
  
  If (and it is a big if) humans are causing climate change, then we might need to stop breeding.
  
  The competition for resources is another thing, but the question is why shouldn’t our species compete with others?
  
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  October 8, 2020 9:59am
  - alloytoo
    
    Wealthy societies do stop breeding (or reduce their output)
    
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    October 8, 2020 10:14am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Then you get Singapore’s problem….
      
      https://edition.cnn.com/2020/10/06/intl_business/singapore-childbirth-pandemic-bonus-scli-intl/index.html
      
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      October 8, 2020 12:57pm
- Catgurl13
  
  The reality is NZ is so small, no one would know or even care what we did here. Nothing we did makes any difference in a world where much larger countries carry on polluting up the place by what they do. NZ doing anything to try to influence climate change is like farting in the wind!
  
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  October 8, 2020 10:06am
  - Fletch
    
    Right, as DPF pointed out in a post regarding an article by Professor Bjorn Lomberg –
    
    In these artificial conditions, if New Zealand meets its promise of zero emissions in 2050 and stays at zero for five decades, then the greenhouse-gas reduction, according to the standard estimate from the United Nations’ climate panel, will deliver a temperature cut by 2100 of 0.004 degrees.
    
    New Zealand is considering spending at least $5 trillion to deliver a physically unmeasurable impact by the end of the century.
    
    https://nypost.com/2019/12/08/reality-check-drive-for-rapid-net-zero-emissions-a-guaranteed-loser/
    
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    October 8, 2020 12:47pm
    - alloytoo
      
      Worse still, this expensive Zero emissions approach will bankrupt the country making us less able to adapt to climate change.
      
      Problem with Consensus Climate change is that it isn’t falsifiable. It’s a religion.
      
      Otherwise it would have been falsified already:
      
      CO2 follows temperature in the historical record, it lags.
      
      Temperature more accurate matches solar cycles.
      
      Sea levels have been rising for centuries as we exited the mini Ice age, that rate has not increased.
      Climate alarmists are buying shore front property.
      
      The frequency of extreme weather events has declined in the past decade in direct contradiction to alarmist predictions.
      
      Polar bears are thriving.
      
      Even the IPCC predictions of change are not of a magnitude that haven’t been experienced and adapted to before.
      
      What may well a climate disaster is the environment damage being done by so called renewables.
      
      Unique desert environments sterilized by vast solar arrays. Forests felled for wind farms or bio-fuels.
      
      We are constantly told how cheap these energy sources are, but places that implement them face huge power price increases to the consumer (Germany\California) and increasingly unstable power grids. (useful for BEVS eh)
      
      When central power systems fail People and companies resort to portable generators. Also bad for the environment.
      
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      October 8, 2020 8:10pm
  - Jimmy White
    
    In china an offical can press one button and release into the Atmosphere more Co2 than NZ produces in a year.
    
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    October 8, 2020 2:32pm
- Unity
  
  The climate has always changed and long before the industrial revolution. It’s been much much colder and much much warmer. It will always change but I don’t believe humans have anything to do with it but it’s more to do with the solar system. That’s not to say though that we shouldn’t take care of our pollution etc but we don’t need to go anywhere near the lengths that are being pushed by the Greens. They are more Red than Green!!
  
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  October 8, 2020 11:06am
Fletch

The entire 60 Minutes Tara Reade interview. Notice it is 60 Minutes Australia, because the U.S version would never do such an interview. They are part of the media carrying water for Joe Biden.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOti0PJlJ7A
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October 8, 2020 9:12am
thirteenstars

Stephen Franks of the Free Speech Coalition interviews Chief Censor, David Shanks:

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=948336942243996
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October 8, 2020 9:49am
- Jack5
  
  That was worthwhile, Thirteenstars. Thank you for providing the link.
  
  David Shanks debates well. You wouldn’t want his job for too long. It must be a bit like being a sewerage inspector in a Third World slum metropolis.
  
  Pity we couldn’t get Shanks on a live question and answer on Kiwiblog.
  
  One point I would like clarified is the difference between the printed (or on-screen) word and video. The live video of the mass murder at the mosques is revolting and definitely should be banned, but I’m far less sure the off-his-head killer’s “manifesto” should be.
  
  If there is justification for banning the printed manifesto for a year, or five or whatever? How long should a ban last?
  
  Would Nazism have been prevented if the Weimar Republic had suppressed Hitler’s “Mein Kampf”? According to Wikipedia, sales were slow until Hitler gained power (under the ancestor of MMP!).
  
  Reading it from the other side of the world and almost a century later, you have to wonder whether if more people in the Weimar Republic had read Mein Kampf, would Hitler have been able to take power in Germany?
  
  Objectionable material can alert people to a danger, while censorship seems to be based on the danger of material corrupting people.
  
  The need to watch material that may lead to suicide in children was disturbing information. What’s going on?
  
  I think Shanks said New Zealand had one of the highest rates of youth suicide in the world, but in the link below, the ten countries with the highest rate are:
  
  1. Uzbekistan
  2. Kazahkstan
  3. Argentina
  4. The United States
  5. Mexico
  6. Poland
  7. Paraguay
  8. Japan, Chile, Ecuador and Lithuania.
  
  Yep, that’s 11, but you can get the gist.
  
  https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/10-countries-with-the-highest-youth-suicide-rates-in-the-world-520156/?singlepage=1
  
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  October 8, 2020 11:21am
  - SB2
    
    jack 5 ,
    
    “(under the ancestor of MMP!”).
    
    Not quite. Under the Weimer Repblic the threshold was almost nil like for example Israel today.
    
    This fact made it very difficult to run the country and Hitler and his Nazis made sure of making political ammunition out of that
    
    The post WW2 solution was to raise the threshold to 5% that led to much more political stabilty like we experience here.
    
    The example of Mein Kampf is a spurious example IMO
    
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    October 8, 2020 1:46pm
Papalazarou

Obviously the tilty Irish setter head thing is contagious https://www.newsroom.co.nz/does-labour-really-cut-it-on-climate
8 1
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October 8, 2020 10:01am
- Tall Man
  
  As is the resting bitch face.
  
  Look when the camera isn’t on them.
  
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  October 8, 2020 12:22pm
Bobba Fret

I will predict now that around about May / June 2021, New Zealand will experience a “large” resurgence of Covid 19 as by then we would have relaxed a bit (and may be travelling more?) and naturally we will be coming in to winter when we traditionally get more colds and flu.
8 2
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October 8, 2020 10:11am
Maggie Pie

A bestie from tennis retweets….

“Are they really intent on STUFFing up our kids lives?”

https://twitter.com/KiwiSAHD/status/1313626690875133952

(the comments are very very telling)
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October 8, 2020 10:50am
Maggy Wassilieff

Poaka barrel politics

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/marae-pgf-announcement-outrageous
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October 8, 2020 11:13am
SB2

Sweden’s controversial apporach to containing Covid 19 witnessed a fall in cases ( more so than Victoria) but now has witnessed an upsurge,

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=12370178
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October 8, 2020 11:22am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Deaths WITH covid have been in the single digits for almost 3 months now in Sweden.
  
  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
  
  7 3
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  October 8, 2020 11:59am
  - SB2
    
    Rather meaningless. The facts are the Covid upsuge is significant in the land of the Herd immunity solution.
    
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    October 8, 2020 1:37pm
    - alloytoo
      
      Deaths are meaningless?
      
      4 0
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      October 8, 2020 8:18pm
Maggie Pie

Trending…..
A MESSAGE FROM THE PRESIDENT.

“This was China’s fault. Just remember that. Chinas going to pay a BIG price”

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1313959702104023o47

MAGA!!
15 3
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October 8, 2020 11:30am
- Batman
  
  More panic feelz?
  
  4 16
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  October 8, 2020 11:54am
  - Tall Man
    
    Pretty sure Trump doesn’t give a shit about “feelz”.
    
    15 4
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    October 8, 2020 12:16pm
    - Batman
      
      He certainly does. He knows that anger and panic are his last hopes for getting all of his base to turn out.
      
      4 15
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      October 8, 2020 12:47pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Roid rage
    
    4 11
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    October 8, 2020 12:18pm
- SB2
  
  Maggie Pie, they call that fear and desperation politcs!
  
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  October 8, 2020 1:38pm
rockape

WhenwillFDPFs add be going out,after the election?
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October 8, 2020 11:36am
Brian McDonald

If the Pakuranga polling booth is anything to go by many people have made up their minds already which way they will vote and have indeed cast their votes.
Meanwhile many Kbers live on the edge of a knife thinking the next sentence of outrage over Cindy did this or did that, the press did this or that, – is going to swing the election.
Don’t think so somehow.
I feel things have got a little messy for JC now. Kbers will argue that it is the press when it actually is what is coming out of her own mouth. She has managed to be to the forefront, but what she is saying is often analysed by the press and pulled apart such as about Samoa, suddenly Christian, Talofa and so forth. A mistake on her part in my opinion.
The dear old Aunty Judith path she started on was a bit muddled and it seemed she lacked organisation in her own mind about her message. Goldy didn’t help that. Simple mistakes but possibly the pygmy arrows striking the elephant.
On the other hand appearing to dominant the press coverage might be helpful. I think it was Sonny Barger (sp?) of the Hells Angels that said any press is good press. That could rattle the teacups.
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October 8, 2020 11:37am
- Tall Man
  
  That is your opinion whereas I see ardern as little more than a liar and the bulk of what comes out of her mouth as utter bullshit and yes you are right, many have made up their minds and from the feedback I get it doesn’t look as good for the bulshitters as you seem to think.
  
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  October 8, 2020 12:15pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    You’ve been talking up your feedback all year TM and making rosy predictions, just as for 3 years Tony predicted the collapse of the Col. 1 down 1 to go, or maybe 1 down 1 on the mark. If you happen to be right you might exhibit some withdrawal symptoms from not being able to slag off the PM every day. Knit 1 pearl 1 might help.
    
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    October 8, 2020 1:09pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Thanks for your concern but I’ll cope.
      
      What amuses me is that the lefties should be in heaven having the bullshitter in charge, you chose which one, yet for the past three years all they have done is slag off National.
      
      Could it be that the reality of a left wing leader is way less than the fantasy, after all, the only thing actually delivered by this coalition was a baby.
      
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      October 8, 2020 3:10pm
- Harriet
  
  “…… I think it was Sonny Barger (sp?) of the Hells Angels ……
  
  From memory it was Malcolm McLaren the manager or PR bloke of the Sex Pistols.
  
  2 1
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  October 8, 2020 2:06pm
  - fernglas
    
    Oscar Wilde got there first with “‘There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.’
    
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    October 8, 2020 3:19pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Did someone ask for Monty Python’s Oscar Wilde sketch?
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uycsfu4574w&ab_channel=DanHadan
      
      1 3
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      October 8, 2020 4:06pm
oldfella

Spiked Online sounds off against the social media companies censoring political debate in the US. Couldn’t happen here, though. (Yeah, right!)
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/07/silicon-valley-needs-to-butt-out-of-democratic-politics/
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October 8, 2020 11:42am
surfing

What the hell is wrong with some national supporters? I’d always thought of national being more aligned to free speech, but, this does not seem to extend to some of it’s supporters.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12371442
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October 8, 2020 11:49am
- Tall Man
  
  Hang on, isn’t part of “free speech” our right to elect to not use a particular business or it’s services? Doesn’t that also extend to telling others why?
  
  Imagine the response if ardern was shown thumbs down and that was reported in the media.
  
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  October 8, 2020 12:11pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Oh come on… I don’t believe for a second that Ms Collins wasn’t allowed in this shop because the group was too big and staff didn’t want to be on TV.
  This is just BS thought up when the pushback started.
  If it had been Ms Ardern wanting in it would have been entirely different – celebrity selfies in all directions.
  What a rude, graceless lot of people – in the mould of the fingernail retailer who made seriously racist comments about Ms Collins’ husband.
  I’d rather go to specsavers,
  
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  October 8, 2020 1:30pm
  - MGT
    
    Isn’t it the right of any shopkeeper to refuse entry to anyone they don’t like the look of?
    I also thought that the right don’t like ‘cancel culture’, but are now calling for a boycott of the shop…
    
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    October 8, 2020 3:26pm
    - Isobar
      
      By definition, if you support this you must also support BDS boycotts of Israel – or at least the right of people to participate in said boycott.
      
      2 1
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      October 8, 2020 3:52pm
    - alloytoo
      
      Well the left weaponized cancel culture, sooner or later the worm was going to turn.
      
      2 0
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      October 8, 2020 8:22pm
- Isobar
  
  I just dont understand why feral supporters on social media of all parties think their favourite leaders cannot fight their own battles and need the social media army to go their bidding.
  
  They’re adults guys, they can make their own decisions.
  
  Social media and politics mixing really is toxic and causing all kids of mental health issues. Its not ok.
  
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  October 8, 2020 3:50pm
Bill

The Climate IS changing!
Soon it will be Summer, and warmer.
15 3
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October 8, 2020 11:54am
- rockape
  
  And that warming will make the sea rise twice a day!
  
  9 1
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  October 8, 2020 2:44pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  If it doesn’t rain by tonight, it will get dark
  
  3 2
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  October 8, 2020 5:36pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Bros – my internal leaker from TV1 has reported the latest poll results due out today:

Labour – down 1% to 46%, Greens up by 1% to 8%
National – down 1% to 32% ACT up by 1% to 9%
Rest is waste of time. So nothing has moved. LAB+GRN = 54% and comfortably forming a gummit and NAT + ACT 41% and nowhere near forming a gummit. Game over bar Megan Woods singing.
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October 8, 2020 12:07pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  You’re making it up SCS. If you had a leaker in TV1 and keep telling us about it he wouldn’t be leaking to you any more.
  
  11 2
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  October 8, 2020 1:17pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Watch out for the poll at 6:00 PM. You will know how powerful SCS is.
    
    4 0
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    October 8, 2020 4:33pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Close, but no cigar.
      
      2 2
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      October 8, 2020 6:16pm
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        Close enough – only need Greens gone @ 6 now and history. Bye bye Mikie :):)
        PS. Jess Munch so kind to James 🙂
        
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        October 8, 2020 7:58pm
- Tall Man
  
  God you’re stupid, no one can sing with a mouthful of pie ………
  
  Now, try labour down 4 to 43%, National steady on 33%, Act up to 9% and greens 4% and you may be onto something 🙂
  
  3 2
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  October 8, 2020 3:18pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Tallman – There are three things certain in life. Death, Taxes and Greens > 5% on election night. NZ is not that lucky. The commies will be back.
    
    3 1
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    October 8, 2020 4:34pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Bloody pessimist.
      
      2 2
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      October 8, 2020 5:32pm
- pseudonymous
  
  My sources are far more reliable.
  Labour-down 3 to 44%
  National-up 3 to 36%
  ACT-up 1 to 9%
  Melons- down 1 to 6%
  NZF- down 0.5 to 0.8%
  Hung parliament or as near as..
  
  3 2
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  October 8, 2020 4:39pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Well my guesstimate is almost right.
  Labour steady on 47%, Greens down 1% which is great. National bang on 32% ACT still at 8%
  
  Election settled for good I think. I am giving up finally now.
  
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  October 8, 2020 6:06pm
Jack5

Headline in New York Times:

New Zealand stamps out the virus. For a second time.

In NZ, health chief Bloomfield reports two new Covid 19 cases in managed isolation, and one “historic case”.

The two new cases were from Ireland (via Dubai) and Hong Kong respectively.

Radio NZ reports Bloomfield as saying the “historic case” is regarded as an older infection that wasn’t infectious while in New Zealand.

“This person arrived from India on 27 August, they tested negative on the day three and 12 tests while in managed isolation and they completed managed isolation on 11 September. The person was re-tested as part of the follow-up to the Christchurch returnee group of cases and returned a weak positive result.”

Bloomfield says the Ministry of Health established the person was not recorded as a case in India, so the person was labelled as a historic case in NZ.

The number of confirmed cases in NZ is now 1508, with 39 of them active cases.

Meanwhile Taiwan (population 23.6 million) has also reported two new imported cases – also one a person arriving from Ireland and the other arriving from India. This brings Taiwan’s total confirmed cases to 523.
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October 8, 2020 1:24pm
- fernglas
  
  New Zealand will have to stamp out the virus a lot more times than 2 if there is no vaccine.
  
  8 1
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  October 8, 2020 3:21pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Was it stamped out? Or did Jaspinda just BAN it twice?
  
  4 2
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  October 8, 2020 5:37pm
gorse

Media hit jobs on Judith and National coming thick and fast now. The fools must realise that Labour will lose sooner or later. I hope this is a wake up call for National to clean this cess pool up. In. So called free and democratic nation we cannot tolerate such bias as this in our media.
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October 8, 2020 1:37pm
- Jack5
  
  The media hens come home to roost …
  
  A bloc has emerged of State-owned TV, State-owned radio, and State-subsidised print media.
  
  National turned the other way when this State bloc began to grow with the virtual takeover of Radio NZ by the tribal radio network.
  
  That coup was led by Wily Willie Jackson, now a Labour MP. And it was accomplished while National was in power.
  
  National would redeem itself by privatising State TV and State radio.
  
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  October 8, 2020 3:03pm
The Boss

Emma Mellow is really good looking. Maybe she will be PM one day.
7 4
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October 8, 2020 1:51pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  I am placing my bet on Tania Tapsell.
  
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  October 8, 2020 3:11pm
Swifty

Tutankhamun’s Trumpets played after 3000+ Years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO3P5jkQmgU
2 0
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October 8, 2020 2:14pm
- lifesgood
  
  Fascinating but what a god awful racket.
  
  2 0
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  October 8, 2020 5:15pm
Paulus

I heard yesterday that Australia has banned the many spouses of Immigrants who do not speak English to a satisfactory degree.
This will mess up a large part of their problems from arranged marriages from say the Indian Sub Continent over which there have been many over many years.
Worth watching for our sake as they may come here first en route to Australia in due time still not speaking English – Maori ok though.
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October 8, 2020 2:40pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  fake news
  
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  October 8, 2020 3:10pm
- Tall Man
  
  That’s ok, they’ll come here for 3 years, learn English, work at the local Bottle O or Z then off they’ll go.
  
  Hang on…….
  
  4 2
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  October 8, 2020 3:13pm
Steve Todd

Pence’s continued refusal to abide by the debate rules agreed to by his campaign, by not concluding his comments / commentary when asked by the moderator to do so, must surely be damaging his and Trump’s re-election prospects.
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October 8, 2020 3:04pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  US Vice President Mike Pence was very impressive in absolutely dominating the shockingly inauthentic Kamala Harris ??
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdL1REzzHCI
  
  https://twitter.com/Timcast/status/1314018687138099200
  
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  October 8, 2020 3:52pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Focus groups all point to Harris pulling faces and smirking, plus lying her ass off, all damage her Campaign.
  
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  October 8, 2020 6:22pm
Natfan08

Prediction for tonight’s TVNZ poll?
4 1
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October 8, 2020 3:12pm
- Tall Man
  
  Frowny face form cindy…..
  
  2 2
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  October 8, 2020 5:37pm
Fletch

Trump has authorized the free distribution of the therapeutic drug that he himself was given in hospital. Hundreds of thousands of doses just about ready to go for those suffering from Covid-19. “I want everybody to be given the same treatment as your president. because I feel great”.

https://www.facebook.com/BlazeMedia/posts/3558485794218881

Can’t ask for more than that, really.
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October 8, 2020 3:14pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Was this miracle treatment only just discovered?
  
  2 4
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  October 8, 2020 4:00pm
  - Batman
    
    I put twenty bucks on this not happening.
    
    Just like his executive orders, a stunt with no intention of follow-through.
    
    3 10
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    October 8, 2020 4:15pm
    - Inandout
      
      Batman, no way can you compare Trump to our Labour government.
      
      5 2
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      October 8, 2020 5:06pm
Tony Stuart

Guess which party sent an email to all party members in a certain Canterbury electorate on Saturday 3rd October at 3.47pm, urging members to gather at a certain place on Tuesday 6th October to greet the party’s leader during a walkabout in the election? (Hint: It wasn’t the National Party)

https://twitter.com/TonyStuart55/status/1314033330094915584

If TVNZ has any integrity whatsoever, this story will be the lead item on One News tonight, given the same level of prominence as a similar accusation against National and Judith Collins was given last night. They might even get one of their political reporters to declare the party in question “Stupid, stupid, stupid”, as Benedict Collins did last night.

However, I won’t hold my breath, waiting for TVNZ to show how politically impartial their editorial and journalistic staff are.
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October 8, 2020 3:51pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Well done TVNZ, reporting on this story now that Colamr Brunton has concluded polling, and the results of the poll due out shortly have been collated:
  
  https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/ardern-acknowledges-labour-asks-supporters-show-up-campaign-walkabouts
  
  It gives one pause to ponder as to who the REAL purveyors of dirty politics are.
  
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  October 8, 2020 5:31pm
- kowtow
  
  They’re all at it , the tone of this ODT item is unrelentingly negative and one must wait till the very last para for any balance ,when that could have been placed higher up in what’s actually a non story.
  
  Hit job.
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/decision-2020/mosgiel-cafe-disappointed-after-collins-no-show
  
  6 2
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  October 8, 2020 6:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Tony, notice that Batman did not have a diversion to your post?
  Good job, keep it up
  
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  October 8, 2020 7:02pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh Dear..

Are our Health Officials bull-shitting us?

According to a World Health Organisation (WHO) report, published in July, there had been no documented cases of a surface being directly responsible for transmission of Covid-19.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/123019917/health-ministrys-rubbish-bin-spread-covid-theory-not-likely–health-expert
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October 8, 2020 4:15pm
- Tall Man
  
  Rhetorical I assume Maggy……
  
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  October 8, 2020 4:17pm
Than

My impression of the US Vice-Presidential debate – very much a draw.

Neither candidate had a clearly better night overall. And neither candidate had any standout moment (positive or negative) that will be remembered.

It was noticeable that Pence consistently didn’t answer the question actually asked. He just talked about whatever he wanted (frequently going back to answer the previous question). This might become a talking point, but I suspect not.

I will also say I think the moderator was probably somewhat harsh on Pence. He did interrupt more than Harris and had more seconds speaking, but not in a way that would be remarkable for a major political debate. Presumably this was a reaction to the first debate. The moderator wanted to be absolutely certain they kept both candidates in line, and as Trump’s VP, Pence got the brunt of that.
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October 8, 2020 4:26pm
Batman

Just to add to the debate above about the supposed spygate.

@JohnBrennan

“In debate, @Mike_Pence lied about handwritten notes of mine from 2016 that referenced unsubstantiated Russian allegation about Secretary Clinton. Follows DNI Ratcliffe’s politicized release of misleading snippets of documents.

Russia helped Trump, and continues to.

Full stop.”

I look forward to the GOP being brave enough to ask Brennan to testify under oath (hint: they won’t).
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October 8, 2020 5:06pm
- Fletch
  
  To be honest, it is going to be pretty hard for Brennan to refute notes written in his own hand, and I doubt very much whether Fox would have reported that “Ratcliffe declassified Brennan’s handwritten notes” if he hadn’t done so. I guess time will tell, but I tend not to believe Brennan. His ass is on the line.
  
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  October 8, 2020 5:37pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Lol
    Exactly. I saw the actual doc this morning
    Brennan has been blatantly lying for awhile now.
    They had no idea these would be found.
    
    The fBIs handwritten notes on Flynn are amazing too.
    No charges to answer, nothing found. Case should be dropped etc etc.
    
    7 3
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    October 8, 2020 6:20pm
- Tall Man
  
  Bigger hint…
  
  Fuck all care.
  
  7 3
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  October 8, 2020 5:39pm
jon

Denise Lee NAT MP certainly can take a lot of the blame for the dip in support for the NATS..without her stupidity and a couple of other avoidable hiccups during the week the NATS were poised to move up 3 or 4%..frankly i hope she loses her seat,,the party is best served by MPs who can show loyalty to the cause especially in the weeks leading up to an election.
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October 8, 2020 6:41pm
- BAM
  
  Best bet long term is if the conservatives in National split from the liberals or encourage them to go join ACT
  
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  October 8, 2020 7:10pm
- kowtow
  
  Notice Jax talking “stable gubmint” more now.
  That’s a play to the audience of the Media Party theme around the unstable Nats going back to the media Party helping to roll Simon.
  The Muller coup was very very damaging.
  
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  October 8, 2020 7:16pm
  - rockape
    
    There wasn’t a Muller coup.
    
    3 1
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    October 8, 2020 7:51pm
    - kowtow
      
      Why aint Simon boss now ?
      
      7 2
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      October 8, 2020 8:39pm
- rockape
  
  She is so far down the list she will be irrelevant in a weeks time or thereabouts
  
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  October 8, 2020 7:57pm
Maggie Pie

BREAKING….

NewsHub’s Tova O’Brien reporting National Party leader Judith Collins failed to eat Cheese Roll while campaigning in Dunedin.
Expects major dip in support for Nats when final poll results are released next week.
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October 8, 2020 7:04pm
- Martin Williams
  
  She wouldn’t want to dip much further. I’d say that was another missed opportunity by Judith.
  
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  October 8, 2020 7:43pm
  - Swifty
    
    Hey Martin,
    
    we’ve just been talking about you today on the NZ First thread.
    
    You’ve got some splainin to do.
    
    10 0
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    October 8, 2020 8:26pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Can’t get excited about the multi-Party “Debate” on TV One so far….
might do the ironing instead.
9 1
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October 8, 2020 7:23pm
Brian McDonald

Seeing I don’t have to beat a party drum, I can say that Peters did well and JLR although I don’t agree with his policies is a relaxed and thoughtful speaker. 2 ex Nats, while others had their moments, looked pretty solid.
I think Jax did a good job. Be interesting to see how she goes in the ‘final showdown’ between JC and JA next week, noting that she at times let Seymour talk over other speakers. I don’t think JC’s going to win by being cynical it comes across as too tired and flat when people may want a lift.
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October 8, 2020 8:19pm
SpencerArnold

How much did the telethon for the labour failure advert raise?
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October 8, 2020 8:24pm
Scooter

Stuff’s article on the poll states that National is running out of time to change voters minds as 500,000 have already voted. How do they know how these people have voted, are they now mind readers or is it just another example of their bias? For all they know it could all be votes for National.
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October 8, 2020 8:47pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Well, that’s optimistic…
  
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  October 9, 2020 6:39am
  - gorse
    
    Mine was, and I voted as soon as the booths opened.
    
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    October 9, 2020 7:29am
Brian McDonald

A real Kiwi comment in response to a British bright light running down NZ’s Covid 19 effort. The last sentence is classic Kiwi.
“And how is the UK today apart from growing crippling debt and dying people stacking up? Seriously, look in the mirror and think of your fellow country people, get a grip,” another wrote.
“I love the New Zealand approach because we get to be alive and stuff.”
In the fullness of time herders will be still be seen as body stackers by many, as they are now.
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October 8, 2020 9:00pm

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